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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a tennis star

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Speaker 1: a beautiful mother end up dead stuffed in a Duffel bag?

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Speaker 1: I mean you see, Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us here at crime Stories and

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Speaker 1: on Serious xem one eleven. First of all, take a

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Speaker 1: listen to this.

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Speaker 2: Michael Medvedev takes a closer look at the Duffel bag

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Speaker 2: he discovered in a closet. He notices the bag is

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Speaker 2: an odd shape and moving a coat out of the way,

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Speaker 2: Medvedev sees a foot. He calls the fire department and

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Speaker 2: they arrive about the same time as police. They determine

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Speaker 2: the dead body in the bag is Nadya Vitel. The

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Speaker 2: medical examiner wants to save as much evidence as possible,

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Speaker 2: so they leave the body in the Duffel bag for

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Speaker 2: transport to the medical examiner's office. Removing the bag reveals

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Speaker 2: a large bloodstain.

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Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends at crimeonline dot com. We take

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Speaker 1: a close look at a Duffel bag inside of a

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Speaker 1: closet and realize something is horribly wrong. Again, this is

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Speaker 1: crime Stories. Thanks for being with us. How did a

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Speaker 1: tennis star end up stuffed in a duffel bag with

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Speaker 1: me an all star panel to make sense of what

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Speaker 1: we know right now, joining me, investigative reporter from CBS

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Speaker 1: twenty one, Hallie Jacobs, Hollie, it's hard to believe that

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Speaker 1: this has happened to this really glamorous tennis star mom

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Speaker 1: and nobody knew a thing. Where did this happen? Was

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Speaker 1: in a private home? Was it in the suburbs rural

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Speaker 1: area of what?

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Speaker 3: So?

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Speaker 4: It actually took place in Manhattan, New York City, and

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Speaker 4: it was in her apartment building, So a big apartment building.

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Speaker 4: Picture that and around the nineteenth floor.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's even more of a conundrum for me

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Speaker 1: to Banora via Alona, high profile criminal defense attorney in

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Speaker 1: this jurisdiction, former prosecutor at Vialona Law dot Com. You'd think,

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Speaker 1: Whitney Banana, that someone on the other side of that

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Speaker 1: wall heard something. I mean, the woman, I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: she's been dismembered or just folded up contorted into a

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Speaker 1: duffel bag. I mean, it's kind of hard to look

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Speaker 1: at her with that beautiful smile, and no she ends

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Speaker 1: up contorted in a duffel bag. But nobody on the

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Speaker 1: other side of that wall heard a thing exactly, Nancy.

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Speaker 3: This is so disturbing because you have to think she

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Speaker 3: was actually killed, she was actually beaten.

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Speaker 1: So I'm waiting to see what the autopsy results are.

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Speaker 3: But you know that her manner death was as a

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Speaker 3: result of a homicide. It was as a result of

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Speaker 3: back answer of another So no nine to one one call.

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Speaker 3: Nobody heard anything, nothing from the neighbors, No one saw

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Speaker 3: anything like a body wasn't discovered for days, Nancy, what

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Speaker 3: are we doing?

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Speaker 5: This is New York.

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Speaker 1: City, the city that never sleeps well. Put a joining

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Speaker 1: me is IRV Brandt, guys former US Marshall, author of

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Speaker 1: Flying Solo, Top of the World on Amazon. You can

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Speaker 1: find them at Irvbrandt dot com. He's reading a series

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Speaker 1: of books. Hey, IRV, you have investigated and solved so

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Speaker 1: many cases literally around the world, having worked with DOJ

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Speaker 1: and many many other capacities. IRV, this woman did everything right.

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Speaker 1: She ate correctly, she exercised, she was devoted to her son.

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Speaker 1: You know those people that never smoke and then suddenly

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Speaker 1: they die of lung cancer. It's like this, IRV. She

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Speaker 1: did everything right. I mean, this is one of the

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Speaker 1: most physically active victims I've ever seen, and yet crime

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Speaker 1: managed to cut her life short. Is that like rub

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Speaker 1: you wrong in some way? IRV.

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Speaker 6: Of course she does, Nancy.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's why every police officer gets into the

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Speaker 5: field that they work. Bad things happen to good people sometimes.

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Speaker 1: You know what, I don't like the way you put that.

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Speaker 1: You're kind of like laid back about it. Bad things

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Speaker 1: happen to good people. Well, you know what, not on

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Speaker 1: my watch, But that is what happened to Nadia Vittel. Guys,

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Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to what her

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Speaker 1: son says.

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Speaker 7: She got on a plane and flew from one of

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Speaker 7: the biggest cities in the world buy herself with some

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Speaker 7: money and a few tennis rackets to Stillwater, Oklahoma. She

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Speaker 7: played tennis there, she studied it. It took her three

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Speaker 7: years to finally figure out what the Greek letters on

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Speaker 7: some of the houses.

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Speaker 6: Now it all made.

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Speaker 5: No sense to her.

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Speaker 1: Hallie Jacobs joining me CBS twenty one News. Hallie, tell

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Speaker 1: me about this woman. I mean, she flies one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest cities in the world alone with money and

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Speaker 1: a couple of tennis rackets to steal Water, Oklahoma to

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Speaker 1: play college tennis.

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Speaker 4: Right yes, yes she does. And you know, it's really

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Speaker 4: great to see exactly what she does with it. She

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Speaker 4: makes a terrific career out of it. She really helps

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Speaker 4: her son, you know, her son. When he was speaking,

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Speaker 4: he was talking about how much she supported him and

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Speaker 4: his streams and it was just a really incredible to see.

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Speaker 4: So it's sad to see exactly what's happened to her. Now, guys,

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Speaker 4: I want.

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Speaker 1: To find out more about this tennis star mom who

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Speaker 1: ends up folded up in a Duffel bag and stuffed

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Speaker 1: in a closet. Did you hear what was said at

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Speaker 1: the very beginning when they removed the Duffel bag there

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Speaker 1: was a big bloodstain left. That is what has happened

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Speaker 1: to this devoted mother. She devoted herself to two things,

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Speaker 1: tennis and her son working, working her fingers to the

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Speaker 1: bone to support her son and make everything wonderful for him.

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Speaker 1: That's who she is, correction, that's who she was. Listen

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Speaker 1: to more from her son Michael.

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Speaker 7: Mama grew up an only child in Moscow with Anya

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Speaker 7: and Ghiera, her parents.

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Speaker 6: She grew up playing tennis from the day she was born.

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Speaker 6: She never sang, never performed.

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Speaker 7: She was the furthest someone can get from being theatrical.

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Speaker 6: I remember she showed me a gold medal, and she

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Speaker 6: had earned in high school back in Russia, a student

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Speaker 6: medal of.

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Speaker 7: Honor for being top in her class. That medal, for

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Speaker 7: some reason, has always stuck with me. It made me

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Speaker 7: feel proud to be your son, and I wanted to

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Speaker 7: earn my own got gold medals to live out to her.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Gary Brocato, clinical psychologist and author of The New Evil,

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Speaker 1: Understanding the Emergence of Modern Violent crime. Boy, do we

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Speaker 1: need a shrink? Did you hear what her son said?

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Speaker 1: This woman goes all by herself as a teen girl

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Speaker 1: with a couple of tennis rackets and flies across the

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Speaker 1: world to become a tennis star at college in Oklahoma.

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Speaker 1: She works her fingers to the bone to become a star,

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Speaker 1: and then spends that success to an incredible sports related

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Speaker 1: PR career, all the while devoted to bringing up her son, Michael.

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Speaker 1: Did you hear what he said about the gold medal?

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Speaker 1: How she showed him the gold medal. That was something

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Speaker 1: she wanted to share. She was proud of it, so

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Speaker 1: proud she showed it to her son. That just breaks

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Speaker 1: my heart. Doctor Ricardo.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely.

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Speaker 8: You know, it's interesting. You know sometimes when we think

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Speaker 8: about cases like this, we really see the division between

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Speaker 8: people who come from good backgrounds, who are people who

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Speaker 8: have people who love them and care about them, and

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Speaker 8: people who've had a rough road in life who feel

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Speaker 8: a kind of entitlement to take from the world. And

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Speaker 8: you get both of them, I think kind of exemplified

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Speaker 8: in this case.

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Speaker 1: I'm just just thinking about her and the significance of

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Speaker 1: showing that metal. You know, everyone tries to look good

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Speaker 1: in the eyes of their children, right you want them

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Speaker 1: to love you and be proud of you. But I'm

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Speaker 1: just thinking about the poignant moment that Nadia takes out

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Speaker 1: her gold medal that she wants and I think they

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Speaker 1: said in high school to show him and now this

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Speaker 1: is just there's something so poignant about that, Doctor Gary Briccado,

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Speaker 1: What is it?

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Speaker 8: Well, because I think a metal is an emblem of

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Speaker 8: what you get when you've worked really hard towards something

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Speaker 8: and you're disciplined and you know you have a goal

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Speaker 8: in mind. It's the complete opposite by the kind of

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Speaker 8: life that we would envision in the kind of people

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Speaker 8: who would have done something like this to this woman,

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Speaker 8: and then you think to yourself, how sad it is that, randomly,

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Speaker 8: because of someone just in the wrong place at the

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Speaker 8: wrong time, all of those things that you did sort

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Speaker 8: of came to an abrupt end unfairly.

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Speaker 1: Well, I disagree with you, doctor Gary Bricado, no offense,

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Speaker 1: because I'm certainly no strength. But I hardly think that

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Speaker 1: being in her own mother's apartment is being in the

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Speaker 1: wrong place. She was in the right place. Somebody else

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Speaker 1: was in the wrong place. It's so rare that I

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Speaker 1: actually get to disagree with you. Let me just enjoy

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Speaker 1: the moment, just for one moment.

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Speaker 5: I think that's important.

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Speaker 1: Her brandt another thing, and I'm getting to the Duffel

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Speaker 1: bag and all that. But in our line of business crime,

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Speaker 1: do you ever just get weary with really wonderful people

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Speaker 1: becoming crime victims. It's not like this woman was out

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Speaker 1: selling crack on the corner. She's not the mastermind of

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Speaker 1: a criminal enterprise. She's not a bad person that is

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Speaker 1: mean to people, That is a bully that takes advantage

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Speaker 1: of other people and praise upon people weaker than her

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Speaker 1: or less talented than her. That's not who. She's a hardworking,

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Speaker 1: loving mom. Now why the hey does somebody like her?

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Speaker 1: Why does she have to end up in a duffel

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Speaker 1: back that ever bothers.

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Speaker 5: You bothers me a lot, Nancy. And these are the

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Speaker 5: type of cases. They're just tragic and they're hard to investigate.

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Speaker 5: It wears on you for years and years and years

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Speaker 5: of conducting investigations, going to crime scenes, talking to the

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Speaker 5: victims family. These type of cases where the person you

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Speaker 5: know was doing the right thing, like you said, was

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Speaker 5: in the right place, wasn't in the wrong place at

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Speaker 5: the wrong time. They were in the right place there

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Speaker 5: where they were supposed to be doing the things that

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Speaker 5: they were supposed to do, and then this happens anyway,

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Speaker 5: It cares at your soul, Nancy. It's hard. It's hard

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Speaker 5: even for an investigator who's been doing it for years

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Speaker 5: and years and years. It's hard to do. It's hard

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Speaker 5: to conduct an interview with the victims family without yourself

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Speaker 5: getting choked up and getting emotional when you know that

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Speaker 5: you can't because you have to be a professional at

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Speaker 5: all times, and you can't go off and let yourself

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Speaker 5: be full of rage and you know, let your emotions

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Speaker 5: take over. But absolutely it's hard.

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Speaker 9: Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace, a beautiful tennis star, a

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Speaker 1: mother folded up, contorted, smashed into a Duffel bag. Why

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Speaker 1: what more do we know about Nania Vittel and her

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Speaker 1: movements the day she was murdered? Listen?

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Speaker 10: Nadia Vitael learned to play tennis growing up as an

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Speaker 10: only child. She went on to become a tennis star

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Speaker 10: in college and after graduation, became a skilled sports marketing

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Speaker 10: specialist traveling the world. Vittel recently returned to New York

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Speaker 10: from Spain to prepare her late mother's apartment for a

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Speaker 10: friend to have a place to stay in the city.

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Speaker 1: Now, I know what doctor Gary Bricato was saying earlier

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Speaker 1: about being in the wrong place at the wrong time,

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Speaker 1: and I called him on it. But that's where she was.

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Speaker 1: Let's focus in on the day that she goes missing.

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Speaker 1: I believe the day she was murdered. Why was she

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Speaker 1: there at that moment? Listen.

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Speaker 2: Naja Vittel spends a couple of days moving personal items

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Speaker 2: into an apartment in Manhattan's kIPS Bay, and she's captured

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Speaker 2: on security cameras going in and out several times. On

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Speaker 2: March tenth, Vitel spends two days on Long Island, then

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Speaker 2: on March twelfth, heads back to the Kiffs Bay apartment.

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Speaker 2: Vittel's son, Michael Medvedev, talked with her that Tuesday, but

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Speaker 2: after the twelfth she has an answering calls or returning texts.

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Speaker 2: After two days of no contact, Medvedev called police to

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Speaker 2: do a welfare check on his mother. Waiting for the police,

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Speaker 2: Medvedev convinces the building super to let him into the apartment.

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Speaker 2: Walking through the apartment, nothing seems amiss, except his mother's

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Speaker 2: not in the apartment. As they're walking out, Medvedev notices

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Speaker 2: an unfamiliar Duffel bag in the closet.

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Speaker 1: Back too, Hallie Jacobs joining us reporter CBS twenty one News,

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Speaker 1: Halle again, thank you for being with us. So did

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Speaker 1: the son know for sure his mother was at her

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Speaker 1: mother's apartment? Is that why he went there? Did he

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Speaker 1: know she had been there?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I mean she was supposed to be there for

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Speaker 4: the past couple of days getting the apartment ready. Now

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Speaker 4: it had been vacant for months, So she went in

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Speaker 4: there expecting to be the only person there, and now

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Speaker 4: he finds her, possibly in a Duffel bag. And he

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Speaker 4: didn't even know what he was seeing at first. I

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Speaker 4: mean the superintendent of the building said that he pointed

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Speaker 4: to the closet and he believed that there was a

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Speaker 4: body in the bag, and all the clothes in the

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Speaker 4: closet were down, so you couldn't even really see the bag.

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Speaker 4: You can only see it partially a bit, and the

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Speaker 4: son just knew that it needed to be So.

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Speaker 1: Let me understand, Halle Jacobs. The clothes have been torn

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Speaker 1: down off the clothes racks and they were on top

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Speaker 1: of the duffel.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so the Duffel bag was only being shown partially.

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Speaker 1: Oh my stars, Doctor Gary Briccado, I need to shrink

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Speaker 1: now more than ever a Bricado clinical psychologist and author,

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Speaker 1: to think that your own son is the one to

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Speaker 1: find your body. I mean, how much more anguish can

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Speaker 1: you heat on someone? Number One, you lose your mother,

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Speaker 1: and then you find out she's murdered, then you find

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Speaker 1: out she's stuffed in a Duffel bag, and then you're

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Speaker 1: the one that finds your dead mom.

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Speaker 8: There's no question from people I've worked with who have

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Speaker 8: discovered bodies or have been at crime scenes that it

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Speaker 8: leads to years of personal psychological anguish. Emotional anguish. Sometimes

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Speaker 8: for the perpetrator of the crime, it's part of the

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Speaker 8: hall to create a situation where somebody is going to

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Speaker 8: chance upon a loved one. I think in this case,

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Speaker 8: it was more a reflection of the kind of chaos

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Speaker 8: and impulsivity of the scene, and it just happened to

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Speaker 8: be that there wasn't very much care taken about how

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Speaker 8: the individual was going to be found by anybody.

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Speaker 1: You know another thing about that. Let me go to you,

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Speaker 1: Bernardo vi Alona, high profile lawyer in this jurisdiction at

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Speaker 1: Violona Law dot com. Bernardo, you've dealt with a lot

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Speaker 1: of crime victims, as have I, and speaking as a

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Speaker 1: crime victim, I have relived and dreamed a million times

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Speaker 1: the last time I saw my fiance before he was murdered,

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Speaker 1: and I can only imagine what it would be like

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Speaker 1: to find his murdered body. Victims' families don't get over

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Speaker 1: that for the rest of their lives, and the a

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Speaker 1: holes who murdered her, I'm sure they're like animals. They

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Speaker 1: have no concern for the family of the victim, the victim,

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Speaker 1: whoever finds the victim. I mean, how do you do it?

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Speaker 1: As a defense lawyer and former prosecutor. How do you

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Speaker 1: represent people that have no regard for anybody else but themselves.

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Speaker 1: Number one, don't be alone in a room with them. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's start with that. Go ahead, and.

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Speaker 3: Nancy, just to put everything in perspective, I used to

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Speaker 3: be a homicide prosecutor for ten years, so I was

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Speaker 3: used to dealing with these homicide investigations, dealing with these

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Speaker 3: family members, dealing with these witnesses. And you're right, this

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Speaker 3: son will never forget that moment and will constantly question

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Speaker 3: themselves what if I accompanied her, what if I was

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Speaker 3: with her? What if I called the day before or

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Speaker 3: even two days prior, could I have stopped this from happening.

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Speaker 3: So when it comes exactly representing individuals that are accused

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Speaker 3: of committing a homicide.

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Speaker 1: Look, stick to the facts, stick to the law.

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Speaker 3: Am I providing effective assistance of counsel to these people

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Speaker 3: and advocating for them for in their best interest. But

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Speaker 3: it is very difficult prosecutor side and also the defense side,

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Speaker 3: because we're still human and we also still feel for

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Speaker 3: these victims who have lost their lives at the hands

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Speaker 3: of another person.

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Speaker 1: Man that son to find his own mother. Okay, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I can talk about that all day, but

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Speaker 1: I want to get down to the facts. Listen to

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Speaker 1: Dave Matt Crime Online. The investigation into the death of

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Speaker 1: Naja Vitel starts with her injuries. Betel suffered blunt forced

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Speaker 1: trauma to the head, multiple facial fractures, of brain bleed,

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Speaker 1: and two broken ribs. From there, investigators move on to

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Speaker 1: the surveillance cameras in the building her body is found

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Speaker 1: on Thursday, March fourteenth. Investigators found surveillance video showing Ftel

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Speaker 1: bringing her personal items into the building on the tenth.

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Speaker 1: Vitel leaves the building just after eleven am on March tenth. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let me understand how this happens. Investigators find surveills video

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Speaker 1: showing her bringing items into the home. Remember, her mother

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Speaker 1: had passed away, and so she was cleaning out the

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Speaker 1: apartment and bringing other things into the apartment. In New York,

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Speaker 1: apartments kind of run in the family. If they're rent controlled,

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Speaker 1: the next person to live in the apartment can only

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Speaker 1: be a family member or else it goes on the market.

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Speaker 1: That's the way it works. So let's hear more. What

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Speaker 1: else was happening while this beautiful young mom. Nadia is

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Speaker 1: moving things in and out of her mom's apartment. Listen

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Speaker 1: to Rachel Bonia Crime Online.

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Speaker 11: At the same time, Bettel is bringing items into the apartment.

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Speaker 11: Haley Tahna and Kensley Austin are seen trying to enter

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Speaker 11: the building around two pm on the tenth. One hour

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Speaker 11: later to Hanna and Austin are on camera in the

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Speaker 11: building and seen on elevator surveillance camera entering Nadia Hottel's apartment. Okay,

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Speaker 11: a minute, who are they? Who are they, Hallie Jacobs,

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Speaker 11: you're joining us CBS twenty one. Who were they in

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Speaker 11: relation to her son Michael or to her Nadia? They're nobody.

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Speaker 1: They're squatters. Isn't that true?

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Speaker 6: That is correct?

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Speaker 4: Sources say they were squatters.

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Speaker 1: Hallie Jacobs, What do you mean by squatters?

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Speaker 4: So they were staying there when they weren't supposed to

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Speaker 4: be there. They went into the apartment, were staying there

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Speaker 4: for who knows how long at this point, and apparently

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Speaker 4: they were away while Nadia was moving into the apartment herself,

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Speaker 4: and then they came back and we know what happens.

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Speaker 1: So Nadia had no idea that squatters were living there.

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Speaker 1: She thought she was just moving things in and out

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Speaker 1: of the apartment.

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Speaker 4: No idea right exactly, And apparently the superintendent says that

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Speaker 4: he had no idea that anybody was living in that

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Speaker 4: apartment as well.

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Speaker 1: So squatters sneaking around trying to live in her mom's apartment.

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Speaker 1: We see him on video going in the apartment. What

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Speaker 1: happens next? Joining me right now a renowned medical examiner,

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Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns, the chief medical examiner and Tarrett County.

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Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth lecturer at University Texas Christian University Medical School.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us fort Worth.

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Speaker 1: Never lack of business there for you anyway. Sad to

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Speaker 1: report dot. The Crowns explain to me what happened to

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Speaker 1: this woman.

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Speaker 12: So from the reports, it appears that she had had

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Speaker 12: blunt force injuries predominantly of the face and head. So

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Speaker 12: they probably based on the facial fractures the bleeding of

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Speaker 12: the brain, they probably used a hard object to hit

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Speaker 12: her in the head with multiple times which resulted in injuries,

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Speaker 12: the facial fractures, and then the hemorrhage of the brain.

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Speaker 12: Once the brain starts hemorrhaging or it gets contusions, you

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Speaker 12: pretty much will die quite rapidly after that, you know, Doctor.

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Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, have you ever heard of the Farmer's Almanac? Okay,

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Speaker 1: have you ever read one?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: I didn't think so, or you would know exactly how

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Speaker 1: much you sound like you're just reading the Farmer's at

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Speaker 1: Almanac and the crop report for next year. We are

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Speaker 1: talking about a mother who is bludgeon debt. Her son

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Speaker 1: finds her shoved into a duffel bag, and Hallie Jacobs

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Speaker 1: joining us CBS twenty one. Didn't he see a foot?

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Speaker 1: Was a foot protruding? As far as I'm aware, he

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Speaker 1: just saw the duffel bag. I've heard reports that he

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Speaker 1: actually sees a foot. I don't know if he realized

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Speaker 1: that was his mother's foot. But Doctor Kendall Crowns, could

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Speaker 1: we just slow it down a little bit. I'm just

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Speaker 1: a JD. You're the MD. There's so much to take in,

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Speaker 1: doctor Kendall crown So let me just start at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: Let me get my mind off of the mom's foot

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Speaker 1: sticking out of the duffel bag. According to some reports,

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Speaker 1: I've got that not what do you suffered? Blood forced

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Speaker 1: trauma to the head, multiple facial fractures, a brain bleed,

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Speaker 1: two broken ribs, that's a lot. Then somehow she's contorted

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Speaker 1: to fit into a Duffel bag. Let's start with bleeding

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Speaker 1: to the brain. How does that happen and what is

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Speaker 1: the result?

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Speaker 6: So how that happens is when you have blunt trauma

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Speaker 6: to the head.

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Speaker 12: Your brain has small vessels that come out of the

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Speaker 12: top of it that attached to the dua which is

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Speaker 12: aligning on top of the brain. When you get hit,

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Speaker 12: these vessels tear and they rupture and that starts causing

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Speaker 12: bleeding of the brain parencoma. That then results swelling of

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Speaker 12: the brain that compromises the brain's ability to do with job.

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Speaker 1: Bleeding to the brain in itself can cause death.

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Speaker 12: How So, blood is occupies the space. Your skull is

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Speaker 12: only so big in the brain doesn't have much room

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Speaker 12: in there. So once blood starts filling that space, you

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Speaker 12: can compress the brain and that can result in brain

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Speaker 12: the brain malfunctioning. Also the brain the blood itself is

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Speaker 12: an irritant to the brain, which results in an inflammatory

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Speaker 12: response that can also cause disruption of function of the brain.

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Speaker 12: So there's a number of ways the blood can affect

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Speaker 12: your brain's function.

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Speaker 1: So we've got brain blade, two broken rims. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about multiple facial fractures. What does that mean? The orbital bones,

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Speaker 1: the jaw.

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Speaker 12: What the facial fractures that's basically the front of your face.

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Speaker 12: It can be orbital bones, nose, the cheekbones are also

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Speaker 12: known as the zygomatic arches, the upper jaw, maxillary all

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Speaker 12: that is considered facial bones. So any strikes to these

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Speaker 12: areas cause fractures the facial bones. Usually a fist isn't

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Speaker 12: going to be able to break like your her cheeks

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Speaker 12: so well, unless you're very strong. So often we see

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Speaker 12: injuries like that they've used some sort of object to

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Speaker 12: beat the person with.

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Speaker 1: That was my very next question. Could these injuries have

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Speaker 1: been affected by fists alone or do you think an object,

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Speaker 1: a blunt object was used.

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Speaker 12: I would guess more likely than not an object. But

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Speaker 12: if they get her down and then they're pounding on

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Speaker 12: her face directly on the ground, they can get more

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Speaker 12: forced that way. So again it just depends on how

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Speaker 12: our body was, but usually with facial fractures, you're dealing

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Speaker 12: more with an object.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is doctor Kendall, Crown's chief medical examiner in

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Speaker 1: Fort work. That's Teran County again. Doctor, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. So I believe we've established that she

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Speaker 1: was beaten with an object. Most likely she has bleeding

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Speaker 1: to the brain. She has multiple fractures to the delicate

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Speaker 1: bones in her face. She has two broken ribs. Now,

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Speaker 1: I believe that broken ribs are caused by direct punches

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Speaker 1: or kicks.

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Speaker 6: What do you think that would be a safe assessment.

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Speaker 12: Usually broken ribs are from direct punches to the chest

437
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 12: or kicks for that matter, But that's occasionally you can

438
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 12: get them from falling onto an object like a desk

439
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 12: or something of those natures. But in a blunt force

440
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 12: injury situation, it's someone punching you in the chest or

441
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 12: kicking you.

442
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm thinking she was already down and they were kicking her,

443
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: kicking her mercilessly, I might add, because she happens to

444
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: walk in on them while they're squatting in her mother's

445
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: home unbeknownst to her. What would have been her actual

446
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: cood When we say blunt force trauma? What does she

447
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: bleed to death? Does she have a heart attack? Does

448
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: the blow itself costs her brain to stop working?

449
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 6: What do we know so it can be a number

450
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 6: of things.

451
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 12: The fractures of the ribs can cause difficulty breathing, but

452
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 12: mainly the blunt trauma to the it's going to cause

453
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 12: the bleeding of the brain, which causes swelling of the brain,

454
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 12: which causes the brain to no longer function properly because

455
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 12: it starts pushing on the structures that control your breathing

456
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 12: and respiratory or your resptory rate and your heart rate.

457
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 12: So it's the damage to the brain and the bleeding

458
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 12: of the brain that's causing death.

459
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: Another surefire clue out to Hallie Jacobs CBS twenty one

460
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,239
Speaker 1: is the puppy. She had a little dog that her

461
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: son describes as her best friend, her man, the only

462
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: man she needed. This puppy gave her all the love

463
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: she needed to get through difficult things. And more importantly,

464
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: her dog had urinated all over the floor because it

465
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: was unaccompanied. Was the dog left in the apartment?

466
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 4: Hallie, Yes, so source of say that the dog was

467
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 4: left in the apartment. We don't really know exactly for

468
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 4: how long, but until her body was found, isn't it true?

469
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 1: Hallie Jacob said. There was also there were also many

470
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: signs of a struggle inside the apartment.

471
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 4: From what officials can say on what they saw, I

472
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 4: would guess, so somebody was talking about how officials say

473
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 4: that her head might have been smacked against a wall

474
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 4: as well, So definitely signs of a struggle, I would say.

475
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: So the fire department is called and they open the

476
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: duffel bag and they find this mom two, Doctor Kendall crowns,

477
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 1: how difficult is it to contort a body to stuff

478
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: into a duffel bag?

479
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 12: So, depending on the size of the individual, if you

480
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 12: push them into the duffel bag before rigamortis sets iner

481
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 12: the body stiffening, it's actually not all that hard to

482
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 12: shove them into a bag and then bend their body

483
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 12: into a ball and then close it on.

484
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: How about if rigamortis has already set in.

485
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 12: What about that once rigor sets in, it actually becomes

486
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 12: more difficult because the body is stiffened, and then it's

487
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 12: harder to contort them into a small object. But you

488
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 12: can break the rigor if you force the extremity or

489
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 12: whatever is stiffened up. That once the rigger is broken,

490
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 12: then the body becomes flashed again or floppy, and then

491
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 12: you can force them into a small object.

492
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: How do we know who did this? Well, here's a

493
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: good clue. Two people begin immediately using her bank and

494
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: credit cards. Okay, take a listen to Dave matt Crime online.

495
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: NYPD Police Chief Joseph Kenney says, Holly Tahata and Kensley Austin,

496
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 2: we're squatting in naughty of Vittel's apartment. When Vittel returned

497
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 2: to the apartment in March twelfth, she confronted the squatters,

498
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 2: who proceeded to allegedly beat her to death and cram

499
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: her body into a double bag. Tehata and Alston allegedly

500
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: through Vittel's personal effects and more in the trash, then

501
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: left the building in her Lexes as UV. Using Vittel's

502
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 2: bank cards, Tehata and Alston charged their way to Pennsylvania.

503
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace Hollie Jacobs joining US CBS

504
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: twenty one. So let me understand immediately, these two idiots

505
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: start using her credit cards and bank cards.

506
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 4: Absolutely, they're taking They took her Lexus. We have the

507
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 4: security cam footage of them inside the Lexus driving all

508
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,959
Speaker 4: the way down to Pennsylvania and most likely using her

509
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 4: bank of cards and accounts to fund their way to

510
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 4: that area.

511
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: As you know, joining us V. Brandt, who has literally

512
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: traveled around the world hunting down wrongdoers. RV. Brant, what

513
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: about these two. They're not even smart enough to cover

514
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: their tracks. They're actually light canceling Gretel and the bred crumbs.

515
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: They're leaving a trail a mile wide by stealing her

516
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: car and using all her credit cards. Okay, so number one,

517
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: they're squatters who are living in the grandmother Nadia's mom's

518
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: apartment in a beautiful building in downtown Manhattan. They're squatting

519
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: number one of their thiefs. They're very secretive. The super

520
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: in the building didn't even know they were living there,

521
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: So they're living the life of Riley in somebody else's apartment.

522
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: Then when Nadia comes home to clear out the apartment,

523
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: they ensue, a struggle ensues, and they beat her dead.

524
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: Did you hear doctor Kendall Crown's explaining everything that was

525
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: done to this woman, the severe beating and likely kicking

526
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: to the ribs that killed her, blunt force trauma to

527
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: her head, fracturing all the delicate bones in her face.

528
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: Then that's not enough. They have to steal her car

529
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: and use her credit cards. I mean, we don't allow

530
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: the twins to say the S word, which is stupid.

531
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: But how much more stupid could they be?

532
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 5: And so they couldn't have been any more stupid. They

533
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 5: gave it no thought whatsoever. They when they committed the murder,

534
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 5: they won. They didn't have to murder this woman. This

535
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 5: woman couldn't have stopped them from leaving, but they did

536
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 5: it anyway, and they did it in a manner that

537
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 5: just showed just a fit of rage. Doctor Crown's the

538
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 5: way he explained it. The injuries. I've come across this

539
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 5: beatings of people being beat to death before, and I

540
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 5: can tell you what happened. She was beat the knocked

541
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 5: to the ground. Then they say she wasn't punched. They

542
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 5: stomped her, They somped her face, they stomped her chest,

543
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 5: and they stuffed her into a closet, knowing damn well

544
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,959
Speaker 5: that they're on when they left, they're on video. They

545
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 5: were swatting in this building. They know there's cameras in

546
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 5: this building, and they know that they're going to be

547
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 5: seen leaving the apartment.

548
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 9: Then they take the victim's car, which they know is

549
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 9: going to be reported stolen, and use the victims credit

550
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 9: cards which they know are also going to be reported stolen.

551
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 5: There was no thought to this whatsoever. This was complete

552
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 5: impulse by these individuals.

553
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: And I'm looking at a shot of the inside, the

554
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: inside of the closet, and I see this mom's blood

555
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: everywhere and the outline of the Duffel bag. It's the

556
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: reason I can see the outline is because it's ringed

557
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: in blood. And when I think about these two depraved

558
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: animals that set up the scenario for her son to

559
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: find his mother dad stuffed in a Duffel bag. According

560
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: to some reports, her foot visible. So who are these guys?

561
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Rachel Benia Crime online.

562
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 11: Once Vittel's body is found on the fourteenth floor, her

563
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 11: Lexus is reported stolen and the US Marshals are able

564
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 11: to track to Hotten, Austin to Lower Paston Township, Pennsylvania. There,

565
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 11: the couple are involved in a traffic accident. March thirteenth,

566
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 11: Austin gives police a fake name, slowing the process of

567
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 11: clearing the accident.

568
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: So they steal the car. And then to top it

569
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: all off, they're involved in a traffic accident for Notnavi Alona.

570
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: What about these two, I certainly wouldn't put them on

571
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: the stand. You think they couldn't even withstand direct examination,

572
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: which let's cross examination. Absolutely not.

573
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 3: I would not put them understand if they were my client,

574
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 3: they're subject to so much crossing. First off, they can't

575
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 3: they won't be able to keep their stories straight, as

576
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 3: you can see all these stupid steps that they took

577
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 3: after they committed this homicide, that they're not the smartest crayons,

578
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 3: the sharpest crayons out of the box. So in terms

579
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 3: of what's going to happen next, though, since they're arrested

580
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania, they'll have to be extra dieted to New York.

581
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 3: More than likely they're going to be charged with murder

582
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 3: in the second degree, which carries a mandatory minimum of

583
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 3: fifteen years to life maximum of twenty five years to life.

584
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: I'll be curious to see what are their defenses. Is

585
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 3: this woman going to alleged that the man forced her

586
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 3: to do it. Is the man going to alleged it

587
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 3: was the woman who actually did it?

588
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 10: Who knows?

589
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 3: They'll probably be pointing their fingers at each other. I'm

590
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 3: curious to see whether they gave a statement to law

591
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 3: enforcement about what happened.

592
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: You know what, I can't wait as a prosecutor to

593
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: somehow get these pictures in front of the jury, because

594
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: when they come in front of the jury, they're going

595
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: to be all dressed up and looking sweet and angelic,

596
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: much like the Menendez brothers did after they murdered their

597
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: mom and dad. In court, they looked like two college

598
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: co eds that had just come out of algebra class

599
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: heading across campus to do something philanthropic. BS. They're not

600
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: gonna look like this in court. They're gonna be all

601
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: fixed up, wearing a suit, wearing a nice dress, with

602
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 1: a fleet of lawyers on either side of them. It's

603
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: kind of hard to reconcile what they're gonna look at

604
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: it like a trial to what happened to this mom Naudia.

605
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: You know, it reminds me of Scott Peterson. I remember

606
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: every day in trial, I'd wait for him to come in,

607
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: and he would walk in from the left side of

608
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: the judge's bench, all bowed up in cocky like football player,

609
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: perfectly groomed like he just had a haircut, shave, and

610
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: wearing a very expensive, nice looking suit. Some people thought

611
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: he was attractive. I thought he looked like the devil,

612
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: full of piss and vinegar, very confident. That's how he

613
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: presented in front of the jury. Now that's how we

614
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: look when you walk in the room. But when the

615
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: jury came in, he looked all pitiful and sad and

616
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: try to make contact eye contact with the jurors. I

617
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: nearly vomited, but I managed to, you know, choke it down.

618
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: That's what these two are going to do. And you

619
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: know what's going to shake a jury into reality's when

620
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: they see the autopsy photos. When they see the pictures

621
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: of the victim, a woman along with her little puppy

622
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: dog cleaning out her dad mom's apartment. Doctor Kendall crowns

623
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: very often certain autopsy photos where the big y is

624
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: cut into the victim. Or for instance, I had a

625
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 1: case of dtor crowds where a woman was bludgeoned dead

626
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: and in one you couldn't see it. She had very beautiful, thick,

627
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: dark brunette hair and you couldn't see the blow on

628
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: her head. The only way for the jury to see

629
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: it was the subcutaneous tissue and the autopsy shot where

630
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,479
Speaker 1: her head the skin was cut and pulled back there

631
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 1: underneath you could see the hemorrhage and the blood. I

632
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: had to fight tooth and claw to get that in.

633
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: Not for the upsetting nature of the photo. I hated

634
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: looking at it, but to show all the bleeding, the

635
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: subdural bleeding that she endured because of a blow to

636
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: the head. So those pictures very likely won't make it

637
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 1: to this jury. But the pictures of her body covered

638
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 1: in bruises, probably cracked teeth, the beating in the face,

639
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: the kicking to the ribs, they're gonna see all that,

640
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: and they're gonna look over at the two defendants sitting

641
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,919
Speaker 1: there like two angels with halos over their head. That's

642
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 1: a sharp dichotomy, wouldn't you agree, doctor Crowns.

643
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 12: Pad cases where the defense attorneys subject to the pictures

644
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 12: being put in, and there was one judge in Chicago

645
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 12: he said that murder is ugly, and that is what

646
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 12: the jury is going to see, so they just have

647
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 12: to get over it.

648
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: Well, okay, spoken like a true medical examiner. The jury

649
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: will quote have to just get over it. Okay, Doctor

650
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, why did I ask you an emotional question.

651
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: That's my fault, not your fault. That's totally my fault.

652
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: IRV Brant, What about these two, because the jury is

653
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: going to hear about flight. Why steal a car and

654
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: flee to another jurisdiction if you're not guilty, I mean, IRV.

655
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: When you see a state treeper pull up behind you

656
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: on the interstate, do you gun it at ninety mpahs

657
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: to get away?

658
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 3: No?

659
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: You might hit the brake. But that's about it. Why

660
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: were they on the run? Why do criminals run? It

661
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: only makes similar worse.

662
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 5: It's true, Nancy, but these individuals weren't thinking about that.

663
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 5: They were completely living in the moment. They know they

664
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 5: have just committed a heinous crime and that they were

665
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 5: in a lot of trouble, and they were going completely

666
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 5: by instinct. They were just fleeing. They fled in the

667
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 5: victim's vehicle. That's the worst possible choice to do. Steal

668
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 5: someone else's vehicle, take the subway, take a train. Fleeing

669
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 5: in the victim's vehicle is just absurd, and using the

670
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 5: victim's credit cards is absurd. They have no defense in

671
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 5: this case.

672
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 1: Well, I got to tell you this. You have tried

673
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: down a lot of defendants all over the world. They

674
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: made it very hard to find themselves for you to

675
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: find them. Not so with these two. Okay, here's my

676
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: next concern, and I'll close with this wonderful thought, Hallie Jacobs.

677
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: This is going to the Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg. He'll

678
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: probably let him out on bond. Are at leased on unrecognissance?

679
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean as of right now, they're just being

680
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 4: held in Dolphin County Prison and you know, depending extradition

681
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 4: to New York on murder charges. So we'll just kind

682
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 4: of have to wait and see. But hopefully, you know,

683
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 4: justice has served and.

684
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: The reality is, to our special guest, doctor Gary Ricato,

685
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: clinical psychologist, the son can't even begin to heal until

686
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: the trial process is over, and these two haven't even

687
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: been extra diized yet.

688
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 8: Absolutely, and you know, our hearts definitely go out to him.

689
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 8: One thing, Nancy, I definitely wanted to have an opportunity

690
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 8: to say, is that I think with this case, based

691
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 8: on smilar cases that I've looked at, I wouldn't be

692
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 8: surprised given how incredibly impulsive and chaotic the scene was

693
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 8: learned that the offenders were hopped up on some kind

694
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 8: of drug and that shouldn't be shocking when you envision

695
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 8: people making bone headed moves like this, getting in a

696
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 8: traffic accident and so forth, because that can add to

697
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 8: the ferocity of what we're seeing. And the other thing

698
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 8: I think that people are going to hear about in

699
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 8: the courtroom is a kind of a sympathy story about

700
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 8: probably two people that came from messed up backgrounds, didn't

701
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 8: really have a sense of home, and as a consequence,

702
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 8: felt a kind of entitlement to take what they wanted

703
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 8: from the world that wouldn't give them anything, and instead

704
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 8: what you wind up with is parasitic behavior.

705
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: Doctor Gary Priccado, I agree with everything that you just said,

706
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: but let me counter this. You think I care, You

707
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: think I care about their imaginary bad childhood or whether

708
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: they or as you said, hopped up on math you know,

709
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: don't care, doesn't matter. Under the law voluntary usage drugs

710
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: for alcohol, it is not a defense. So to Hay

711
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: with that, they are going down. I don't know if

712
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: Alvin Braggs is the man to do it, but these

713
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: two are headed for hard jail time. We wait as

714
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend,