Speaker 1: There are crooks everywhere you look. Now the situation is desperate.
Speaker 2: In the last episode of Crooks Everywhere, you heard how
Speaker 2: alleged mastermind Jorgen Fennick was arrested off the coast of
Speaker 2: Malta as he attempted to flee the country on his
Speaker 2: private yacht. He was later taken to cord In prison
Speaker 2: and detained under preventative custody. For some reason, the authorities
Speaker 2: saw him as a flight risk. Fenek was charged with
Speaker 2: complicity to murder and criminal association, and he denies these charges.
Speaker 2: At the time of recording, it has been nearly five
Speaker 2: years since Feneck was arrested, and yet no date for
Speaker 2: the trial has been seted. Jorgen Fenek is, of course
Speaker 2: presumed innocent unto proven guilty, and he has the right
Speaker 2: to a fair trial. But in the meantime we must
Speaker 2: continue to interrogate what's going on in Malta. We are,
Speaker 2: after all, investigating the murder of a colleague, yes, but
Speaker 2: we're also telling the story of a country under siege
Speaker 2: from corruption. All this and much more, including the criminal
Speaker 2: charges against Joseph Muscat. In this final episode from My
Speaker 2: Heart podcast, topic Studios and Vespucci. This is Crooks Everywhere,
Speaker 2: Episode ten, The Big Picture. Hello, I'm John Sweeney. In
Speaker 2: this our final episode of Crooks Everywhere. We're doing things
Speaker 2: a bit differently around table discussion, bringing you up to
Speaker 2: speed on the latest developments in the story of the
Speaker 2: assassination of Daphne Carojuana Galitzia and the continuing impact of
Speaker 2: her work and her tragic death. You will have already
Speaker 2: noticed that there is a voice missing from this episode.
Speaker 2: Manuel Delia is not able to join us for legal reasons.
Speaker 2: I'll come to shortly, but first let me introduce you
Speaker 2: to the two fantastic guests that are alongside me in
Speaker 2: this absence. Firstly, Ellen Trapp, a German journalist based in Munich.
Speaker 2: At the time of Daphne's murder, Ellen was stationed in
Speaker 2: Rome as head of studio for ARD, Germany's national television station.
Speaker 2: She was also the correspondent responsible for ARD's coverage of
Speaker 2: Malta and flew straight into the country hours after Daphne's
Speaker 2: assassination to cover the story. Eleanor is now head of
Speaker 2: the Culture department at Ard. Hello, Ellen, Hi, And also
Speaker 2: we have Carlo Benini, Deputy editor in chief of the
Speaker 2: Italian national paper Republica, an expert on the intersection of
Speaker 2: organized crime and politics, an author of several books, including
Speaker 2: Murder on the Matter Express, which he co authored with
Speaker 2: me and Manuel Hi Carlo.
Speaker 3: I'm Efrem.
Speaker 2: We all three of something in common when Daphne was murdered.
Speaker 2: We were all compelled to travel to Malta to be there,
Speaker 2: to interrogate what had happened, and to tell Daphne's story
Speaker 2: back in our home countries. So I'd like to start
Speaker 2: first with your personal relationship to this story, Allen. Can
Speaker 2: you tell me why this story is so important to you.
Speaker 4: I remember John and I heard it in the podcast
Speaker 4: in another episode that you entered the BBC office and
Speaker 4: there was just like silence when the breaking news came up.
Speaker 4: And meanwhile I'm talking, I'm just getting really emotional because
Speaker 4: I remember my situation in the same moment I entered.
Speaker 4: I was editing another story in Rome and a colleague
Speaker 4: entered the edit room and he's said, you know what
Speaker 4: happened Dafne Carojuana Calthia's dad, And I said, and my
Speaker 4: first idea was she was sick. So I just checked
Speaker 4: my phone, I checked the news and I thought no,
Speaker 4: she wasn't sick. So we were discussing extremely fast how
Speaker 4: to react and what we can do, and I remember
Speaker 4: we booked the flight and I said, I'm going to
Speaker 4: Malta immediately to cover the story because it just hit
Speaker 4: me deep in my heart as a European citizen, as
Speaker 4: a woman, and as a journalist. So it was for
Speaker 4: me a very, very shocking moment, and I felt so
Speaker 4: responsible to tell this story.
Speaker 2: Carlo, tell me where were you when you heard the
Speaker 2: news and what was your instant reaction.
Speaker 3: Well, John, I was in my newsroom, and the news
Speaker 3: was really like a shot, a shot in my newsroom
Speaker 3: because Daphne had been working for a long time on
Speaker 3: Panama papers and my newspaper was involved in the consorts
Speaker 3: room which work on it, so Daphne was well known.
Speaker 3: The result was that the very next day we were
Speaker 3: on a flight to Balita, and I remember also that
Speaker 3: we decided that we were going to cover the story
Speaker 3: of Daphne, the death of Daphne, the murder of Daphne
Speaker 3: as a domestic story, with the same pressure to follow
Speaker 3: the story and to get to the bottom of it.
Speaker 2: For my point, I can remember vividly the atmosphere in
Speaker 2: the newsroom. But there was a sense of shot. I remember,
Speaker 2: a sense of dread and a sense of cute. She
Speaker 2: was We're gonna try and find out what happened here
Speaker 2: because this is one of us is being killed, and
Speaker 2: also a sense of determination as well. Ellenncarla, did you
Speaker 2: feel that too, that this is one of us?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, of course, because she's one of us.
Speaker 4: She was one of us, even if I didn't meet her,
Speaker 4: which I feel really sad about today.
Speaker 1: Still today she had in Germany.
Speaker 4: You say, she has the nose to get the good stories,
Speaker 4: you know, and she's like a good researcher, and she
Speaker 4: was like a fantastic journalist. So that's the reason why
Speaker 4: I felt so shocked, because yes, she was one of us.
Speaker 3: Goll It, definitely she was, and I remember that. My
Speaker 3: thought was, they cannot think that the story will die
Speaker 3: with her. I mean, you can kill one journalist, you
Speaker 3: can kill two journalists, you can kill those of journalist
Speaker 3: so that he cannot kill journalism, and that I think
Speaker 3: that was the best way to honor the life, the memory,
Speaker 3: the passion of such a resilent woman.
Speaker 2: Carlo. I want to buy you a drink, but it's
Speaker 2: twelve thirty and you're in another country. So let's move
Speaker 2: on to the first big important development and the reason
Speaker 2: I'm without my co pilot Manuel today. On the nineteenth
Speaker 2: of September twenty twenty four, a decree was fixed through
Speaker 2: the door of the Course of Justice. In the letter,
Speaker 2: it set out a ban on any writings, declarations, or
Speaker 2: any public discussion on broadcast media or social media that
Speaker 2: mentions the trial of Organ Fennik for the murder of
Speaker 2: Daphne Carouana Glitzia. It seems that this ban also extends
Speaker 2: to any discussion of Daphne's murder whatsoever, whether or not
Speaker 2: Jurgen Fennick is referenced. The only exception is a reporting
Speaker 2: of what happens in open court where journalists are allowed
Speaker 2: to be present. A band like this is allowed under
Speaker 2: an old Victorian Maltese law, but is very rarely used.
Speaker 2: Daphne herself spoke out against this law, referencing another case.
Speaker 2: She said, all the ban has done is to protect
Speaker 2: the interests of the alleged aggressors. It also cheats the
Speaker 2: public because of its need to see justice being done. Indeed,
Speaker 2: the public in this situation doesn't even know whether justice
Speaker 2: is being done. Manuel is challenging this ban on a
Speaker 2: constitutional basis, but in the meantime we're respecting the judge's decision.
Speaker 2: The first nine episodes of this series were recorded well
Speaker 2: before the court degree, but as this episode has been
Speaker 2: recorded after, Manuel is not participating. However, we understand that
Speaker 2: those of us outside the Maltese jurisdiction are able to
Speaker 2: continue to talk about this subject. So Ellen in Germany,
Speaker 2: Carlo in Italy, and Me in Britain, respectively, will do
Speaker 2: just that now. Jorgan Fennick denies the charges related to
Speaker 2: Daphne's murder and is of course presumed innocent until proven guilty.
Speaker 2: The express purpose of this ban is to protect Organ
Speaker 2: Phenix's right to a fair trial. The issue I see
Speaker 2: here is that whoever it was responsible for Daphne's murder
Speaker 2: is responsible for the silencing of a journalist, and now
Speaker 2: this decree seeks to silence all journalists on the subject
Speaker 2: of Daphne's murder itself until his longer waited trial. We'll
Speaker 2: talk about the delay, but what I want to talk
Speaker 2: to you about first is this question of fairness. Carlo,
Speaker 2: is it common for a European country to declare a
Speaker 2: ban like this.
Speaker 3: I can speak my country and there is no chance
Speaker 3: that you can issue a better like this. We have
Speaker 3: a constitutional right. And I think that you said the
Speaker 3: right word before you said an ancient Victorian law. In
Speaker 3: a Victorian age, you can think that a ban on
Speaker 3: local papers could ensure sort of blanket effect. In twoenty
Speaker 3: twenty four, in the digital age, choosing to apply a
Speaker 3: Victorian law is nonsense and gives you the idea that
Speaker 3: the let's say, the institutions in Malta are still afraid
Speaker 3: of the truth. I think there is something desperate in
Speaker 3: this man. That's what I think.
Speaker 2: Allen, can I bring you in here? How do we
Speaker 2: strite the balance between reporting what is in the public
Speaker 2: interest and avoiding trial by media? What's reasonable? What's fair?
Speaker 4: I think yes, it had there has to be and
Speaker 4: I guess we all agree in that there has to
Speaker 4: be a fair trial for everyone, and that's even a
Speaker 4: European value. There is a public interest and that what
Speaker 4: happened to Manuel, and that what happened in Malta over years. Yes,
Speaker 4: I agree to what Carlos said. They are still afraid.
Speaker 4: What's coming next? What's the end of the story and
Speaker 4: I think over years they thought the power means you
Speaker 4: are rich and you have the money. But this is
Speaker 4: not the real power. The power we have is actually
Speaker 4: the freedom of speech. We have the journalists, we have
Speaker 4: a network, and the.
Speaker 1: Jews has to come up at one point.
Speaker 4: And so I think a fair trial, yes, but that
Speaker 4: what happened in Malta is really.
Speaker 1: I don't even find words for that.
Speaker 3: May just add one thing. I am I am keen
Speaker 3: on fair trial, but I think that a fair trial
Speaker 3: relies for the strict application of the ruler law. A
Speaker 3: fair trial has nothing to do with journalism or public debate.
Speaker 3: A fair trial relies on the cautionists and the proficiency
Speaker 3: of a professional judge.
Speaker 2: There's a specific thing. At the moment, there is still
Speaker 2: no date for the trial. The organ Fundic was arrested
Speaker 2: in November twenty nineteen and then died of the murder
Speaker 2: in August twenty twenty one. At the time of recording,
Speaker 2: he's been held on remand almost five years now. It's
Speaker 2: important to say that this is not unusual for Malta.
Speaker 2: There are thirty three pending cases that have been waiting
Speaker 2: even longer than this one, and the backlog won't be
Speaker 2: cleared until twenty thirty seven, but the organ Fene's legal
Speaker 2: team have also delayed things further with various appeals and complaints.
Speaker 2: In fact, when Phene requested to have Madame just as
Speaker 2: that Weena Greema removed from the case, he was denied
Speaker 2: this until that this was solely the untem attempt to
Speaker 2: uselessly prolong proceedings. So Carlo, tell me, do you think
Speaker 2: this is a multi specific issue. Would we see delays
Speaker 2: like this elsewhere with such a high profile case?
Speaker 3: Well as you as you know, Italy is not at
Speaker 3: the at the top of the for the top countries.
Speaker 3: For you know, spitness of trials for five years? Five
Speaker 3: years is long tin als. Sorry, I'm nothing too, I
Speaker 3: don't know, Yeah, I mean, you're right, five years is
Speaker 3: really a long time.
Speaker 2: Even even for an Italian, even.
Speaker 3: For the Italian standards.
Speaker 2: It wouldn't happen in Britain for a trial of this
Speaker 2: importance and this magnitude. The idea that you'd be waiting
Speaker 2: five years, I can't see that happening here. What about
Speaker 2: would it happen in German?
Speaker 4: Allen, No, it wouldn't happen in German, even like these
Speaker 4: high profile cases like NSU or wire cat this went
Speaker 4: away faster.
Speaker 3: Yes, No.
Speaker 2: Implicit an affair trial is that it should happen in
Speaker 2: a timely fashion, and that's not happening here. By the way,
Speaker 2: I should point out that this sort of delay is
Speaker 2: not only unfair for the victims of a crime, but
Speaker 2: also for those accused of that crime. Organzanek has experienced
Speaker 2: five years of prison conditions when he is still presumed innocent.
Speaker 2: By the way, that's not uncommon in Malta. But Carlo,
Speaker 2: do you think this speaks to a dis functional justice system?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: I think it speaks to political oriented justice. I think
Speaker 3: that justice in Multa.
Speaker 2: I mean's a crooked one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, I think it justice Si Malta
Speaker 3: can work smoothly and quickly. Remember when dafinitely died investigators
Speaker 3: investigators from USA were sent on the scene, the FBI
Speaker 3: Italian investigators gave even important boosts, so uh they where
Speaker 3: every There was everything at the time to lead a
Speaker 3: fair investigation that could lead to a fair trial and
Speaker 3: at a quick and fair trial.
Speaker 2: Ellen, what are the consequences of waiting so long for
Speaker 2: the trial in terms of witness memory, in terms of
Speaker 2: how evidence may may start to Deuteria. One of the
Speaker 2: consequences of waiting so long for Astrang.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's once the witnesses themselves who cannot even remember
Speaker 4: what happened. Second, like the Maltese people who are not
Speaker 4: any more interested in the case Stephan Carowana Galita because
Speaker 4: it's years ago. It might be their purpose that they
Speaker 4: want the Maltese people who are fighting for the truth
Speaker 4: at some point just to tire it. So I'm really
Speaker 4: afraid that this is their purpose, just to play and
Speaker 4: wait so that.
Speaker 1: One day nobody's asking anymore.
Speaker 4: But I'm still optimistic that this will not happen.
Speaker 2: Well, it's always good to be optimistic. But reporting on
Speaker 2: this story, I think you could be forgiven for thinking
Speaker 2: that things just as bad and most today as they
Speaker 2: were seven years ago when Daphne was killed, that the
Speaker 2: corruption and criminality that she warned us about continues to flourish. Ellen,
Speaker 2: I'm interested in your time as a foreign journalist covering
Speaker 2: multi stories. Can you paint us a picture of the
Speaker 2: levels of corruption you found.
Speaker 4: That I was wondering if I ever did a nice
Speaker 4: story about Malta in all these years I stayed in
Speaker 4: Rome and covering Malta. It was always about selling passports,
Speaker 4: like the hospital deal, it.
Speaker 1: Was about gambling.
Speaker 4: And then the assassination of Dafne Cajuerana Galicia. I felt
Speaker 4: the level of corruption in Malta was really, really high,
Speaker 4: and I stayed in Italy, and I mean Caldo knows
Speaker 4: that more than I do. I was, you know, I
Speaker 4: was used to some corruption in another country, but and
Speaker 4: I didn't expect that or Malta. They build it up
Speaker 4: and whole economy in a sort of illegal way to
Speaker 4: get the people rich. The people means not like the
Speaker 4: normal people on the street we meet. The people means,
Speaker 4: of course, the political class that had an interest in
Speaker 4: becoming richer, doing deals, and that's what I saw over years.
Speaker 2: There is the possibility that some things might be changing
Speaker 2: in Malta. In May twenty twenty four, ex Prime Minister
Speaker 2: Joseph Muscat with charged with accepting bribes, corruption and public
Speaker 2: office and money laundering, amongst other things. All these charges
Speaker 2: relate to a deal made to privatize free public hospitals
Speaker 2: in Malta and also implicate Muscat's former chief of staff
Speaker 2: Keith Scambrie and former cabinet minister Conrad Mitzi. You heard
Speaker 2: about the hospital or briefly in episode seven. It's a
Speaker 2: story that Daphne broke back in twenty fifteen. The actualization
Speaker 2: is that multi public funds that were intended for hospital
Speaker 2: upkeep and repair were instead funneled to private beneficiaries, including Muscat,
Speaker 2: Skembury and Mitzi. All three men deny wrongdoing. This is
Speaker 2: a complicated case and it will take time to resolve,
Speaker 2: but it is still hugely significant that the former prime
Speaker 2: minister has been taken to court on these charges. Carlo,
Speaker 2: how can we measure whether corruption is at last being
Speaker 2: properly addressed?
Speaker 3: I think the lesson, the ultimate lesson from Daphne Smarther
Speaker 3: is is that what's going on in Malta, what's going
Speaker 3: on in many countries that are experiencing a deep, a
Speaker 3: u huge crisis of democracy, is that when in a
Speaker 3: country democracy turns into a what we call the mokretura,
Speaker 3: something between a regime with the resemblance of democracy, that's
Speaker 3: the place where corruptions is a bound.
Speaker 4: Three.
Speaker 3: You John experienced a long time in Ukraine on the
Speaker 3: East Front. We know what's going on in Russia. I
Speaker 3: think that when we speak about corruption, we are talking
Speaker 3: about the crisis of democracies as we used to know them.
Speaker 3: We are all more or less sons of the twentieth
Speaker 3: century when democracies were conquered with the sacrifice of our
Speaker 3: fathers or grandfathers. If we want to battle against corruption,
Speaker 3: we have to fight to keep up with democracy in shape,
Speaker 3: which means transparency, which means rule of law, which means
Speaker 3: responsibility of each of us, beginning from the one who
Speaker 3: does this beautiful job, which is journalism.
Speaker 2: Beautifully put Karlo, one thing does more to have anti
Speaker 2: mafia legislation, not I mean, as far as I know,
Speaker 2: it doesn't correct answer. Surely that means it's going to
Speaker 2: be difficult for the country to stand up for corruption
Speaker 2: and the influence of organized crime.
Speaker 3: Let's try to say that there is an organized crime
Speaker 3: families in Moldo Islands and try to do that. It
Speaker 3: seems to me sadly that Malta has many many roads
Speaker 3: to go to face the reality and to face the truth.
Speaker 3: Remember John, when they decided to clean up the main
Speaker 3: road in Valleta from candles and flowers, remembering and honoring
Speaker 3: Dahny because that flowers in that candles put a shade
Speaker 3: on the image of the island. There's the same stuff.
Speaker 2: Yes, So this is what Colin's referring to folks is
Speaker 2: every night her supporters were put up a little shrine.
Speaker 2: They'll put up photographs and be flowers and reefs, and
Speaker 2: every night, day after day after day, the bin men
Speaker 2: would come and take it down and listen. Part of
Speaker 2: this conversation we're having here and this whole series is
Speaker 2: about remembering Daphne Caronic let say herself, and what she
Speaker 2: stood for. She thought so fiercely against corruption, as we've
Speaker 2: discussed already, and of course for freedom of speech and
Speaker 2: the importance of journalism. When I think about Daphne and
Speaker 2: what she took on in defense of journalism, and when
Speaker 2: I look around me today in twenty four I worry
Speaker 2: about the state and the independence of journalism around the world.
Speaker 2: Or am I being a bit of a cynic Ellen?
Speaker 4: I would love to be optimistic, but right now I'm
Speaker 4: not really because even I mean, populism fights journalism, and
Speaker 4: we see it in the US and we see it.
Speaker 1: In several countries.
Speaker 4: So it's so hard to get to the people with
Speaker 4: real news. And I realized in Germany that the interest
Speaker 4: in some TikTok reels and insta stories from right wing
Speaker 4: parties are so much more popular than a high quality
Speaker 4: journalism story about corruption or organized crime or the war
Speaker 4: in the Ukraine or whatever happens in Israel and Gaza,
Speaker 4: and so I think, of course, the journalism is in
Speaker 4: danger and makes our work, our work so much harder
Speaker 4: and so much more complicated, as the people interested in
Speaker 4: easy answers in a really complicated, crazy world. Right now,
Speaker 4: the people are ignoring or think they think we are
Speaker 4: just like the left wing fake news idiots. And to
Speaker 4: fight against this is really, really hard. And I never
Speaker 4: had a situation in my journalistic life that I felt
Speaker 4: so pessimistic that I'm right now. I remember the first
Speaker 4: day I stayed in Valletta after the assassination, and I
Speaker 4: did like a box pop in the streets of Valletta,
Speaker 4: and I asked the people what what about Dafne And
Speaker 4: some said she's like which I'm happy she's dead now,
Speaker 4: And it was like, there's a woman fearless in Malta,
Speaker 4: a journalist.
Speaker 1: She's doing a great work.
Speaker 4: And sometimes maybe one of your the blog stories you
Speaker 4: didn't like, Okay, that's fair enough, but searching for the
Speaker 4: truth might be a value we just should fight for.
Speaker 4: And I think this is a really hard work we
Speaker 4: have to do right now.
Speaker 2: I mean proud my career. There's always been very powerful
Speaker 2: media barons, for example the Murder family who control big
Speaker 2: newspapers in Britain, but also Fox News and all of that.
Speaker 2: But now there's something new, twister X whatever they call
Speaker 2: it these days, controlled by Elon Musk. So, Carlo, do
Speaker 2: you worry that the power of a very small number
Speaker 2: of individuals have it in shaping our global conversations is
Speaker 2: a threat to democracy and independent journalism?
Speaker 3: Definitely? It is. Oh, I agree with you. Democracies are
Speaker 3: at risk, are in danger, are sieged a populism as
Speaker 3: Ellen was saying that, As you know, I am an
Speaker 3: optimistic Italian. So I think that we have a chance
Speaker 3: and we work it out. There where other times when
Speaker 3: everything seemed lost, when journalism seem to have no space
Speaker 3: to go, and sometimes when I see my younger mates
Speaker 3: here in the news group, sometimes in good days, I
Speaker 3: think we'll work it out. They were as in Athlete,
Speaker 3: there were there.
Speaker 5: Were new generation of young journalists, independent journalists, bloggers whoever
Speaker 5: as this wonderful energy to fight for democracy and to
Speaker 5: keep the to keep.
Speaker 3: The light on. And also if you love to tell
Speaker 3: of yourself that you are an old cynical Brits, my
Speaker 3: dear John, what you did in the last couple of
Speaker 3: years in Ukraine, it's the proof that we will work
Speaker 3: it out, the journalists will survive.
Speaker 2: I've been put in my place by an optimistic Italian.
Speaker 2: I do believe that storytelling will out, the truth will out,
Speaker 2: and the best stories that are told are the stories
Speaker 2: that power and money don't want to be told. I'd
Speaker 2: like to draw things to a close here by remembering
Speaker 2: that Daphney continues to be a beacon for fearless independent
Speaker 2: journalism long after she's gone. And it's extraordinary to me
Speaker 2: that she died seven years ago and yet the repercussions
Speaker 2: of her story she broke continue to be felt to
Speaker 2: this day. But of course we can't forget that the
Speaker 2: things she thought so fearlessly against corruption and the silent
Speaker 2: saying a free speech that continues to be a violatle
Speaker 2: struggle in Malta and across the whole world today. So
Speaker 2: I'd like to ask you both about Daphne's legacy. What
Speaker 2: do you think are the enduring lessons we can take
Speaker 2: from the life and work of Daphne Carona Galicia Alan.
Speaker 1: First, Wow, that's a big question.
Speaker 4: Jews must be told, be fearless, work in a network
Speaker 4: values fairness, transparency, justice. There's such a lot I have
Speaker 4: in my backpack after the murder, after the assassination of Dafne,
Speaker 4: and I hope a lot of us will carry that on,
Speaker 4: even a Malta. And let me say this, even I
Speaker 4: wish for that Karwana Galicia family that wants there will
Speaker 4: be that day when all the when the big picture
Speaker 4: Jews comes up and they just can close the darkest
Speaker 4: chapter of their life.
Speaker 1: So much Carlo, I guess you have a bit to tell.
Speaker 3: Well, I I think there is one lesson more than
Speaker 3: any other that Daphne's life as a journalist and Daughne's
Speaker 3: mother tell us. And the major lesson to me is
Speaker 3: don't be afraid to be alone. Don't be afraid to
Speaker 3: be alone in uh in the saying in writing what
Speaker 3: do you think is the truth? Don't think that being
Speaker 3: alone is at the evidence of a mistake. Loneliness sometimes,
Speaker 3: many times, especially in our job in journalism, is the
Speaker 3: main road to uncover what the other don't want to
Speaker 3: don't want to hear, don't want to see, or try
Speaker 3: not to be discovered. So Batane was alone, was alone
Speaker 3: among her friends, was alonge among her people, was along
Speaker 3: in her homeland, that at the end she found out
Speaker 3: that she was not at all alone.
Speaker 2: Beautifully poor, my own two pennyies on this. Her life
Speaker 2: and her work spoke to a simple truth. But all
Speaker 2: the power and money and all the corruption in the
Speaker 2: world will never ever silence, and that is this The
Speaker 2: truth will apt. So I need to thank my two
Speaker 2: fantastic guests, Allen Trapp and Carlo Benini. Thank you very much,
Speaker 2: both of you. We reached out to representatives for Organthhanic
Speaker 2: to request their comments on some of the questions raised
Speaker 2: in our reporting. While the case is still awaiting trial,
Speaker 2: representatives for Organthhonic declined to comment on the ongoing court
Speaker 2: cases or this story in general. Organthhanic denies all the
Speaker 2: charges relating to the murder of Daphne Carolina Galitzia and
Speaker 2: has stated that he is focused and confident on proving
Speaker 2: his innocence in a court of law. Former Prime Minister
Speaker 2: Joseph Muscats representative declined our request for an interview. He
Speaker 2: is pleaded not guilty to all charges relating to the privatization.
Speaker 2: Conrad Mitzi did not respond to our requests for an interview.
Speaker 2: Keif sch Genbrie declined our request for an interview. Crooks
Speaker 2: Everywhere is a production of iHeart Podcasts, Topic Studios and Vespucci.
Speaker 2: This episode was hosted by me John Sweeney. The producer
Speaker 2: is Maddie Hikesh. The managing producers are Thomas Curry and
Speaker 2: Rachel Byrne. The voice of Daphne Carojana Glitzia is played
Speaker 2: by Sienna Miller, acting direction by Christopher Houten. The executive
Speaker 2: producers are Johnny Galvin and Daniel Turkin Vespucci, Gritty Gressman
Speaker 2: at Topic Studios, Katrina Novelle and Nikki Etoor at iHeart
Speaker 2: Podcasts and Sienna Miller. Marketing lead is David Wasserman. Audio
Speaker 2: mix and sound design by Joel Cox.