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Speaker 1: There are crooks everywhere you look. Now the situation is desperate.

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Speaker 2: In the last episode of Crooks Everywhere, you heard how

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Speaker 2: alleged mastermind Jorgen Fennick was arrested off the coast of

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Speaker 2: Malta as he attempted to flee the country on his

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Speaker 2: private yacht. He was later taken to cord In prison

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Speaker 2: and detained under preventative custody. For some reason, the authorities

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Speaker 2: saw him as a flight risk. Fenek was charged with

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Speaker 2: complicity to murder and criminal association, and he denies these charges.

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Speaker 2: At the time of recording, it has been nearly five

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Speaker 2: years since Feneck was arrested, and yet no date for

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Speaker 2: the trial has been seted. Jorgen Fenek is, of course

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Speaker 2: presumed innocent unto proven guilty, and he has the right

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Speaker 2: to a fair trial. But in the meantime we must

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Speaker 2: continue to interrogate what's going on in Malta. We are,

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Speaker 2: after all, investigating the murder of a colleague, yes, but

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Speaker 2: we're also telling the story of a country under siege

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Speaker 2: from corruption. All this and much more, including the criminal

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Speaker 2: charges against Joseph Muscat. In this final episode from My

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Speaker 2: Heart podcast, topic Studios and Vespucci. This is Crooks Everywhere,

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Speaker 2: Episode ten, The Big Picture. Hello, I'm John Sweeney. In

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Speaker 2: this our final episode of Crooks Everywhere. We're doing things

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Speaker 2: a bit differently around table discussion, bringing you up to

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Speaker 2: speed on the latest developments in the story of the

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Speaker 2: assassination of Daphne Carojuana Galitzia and the continuing impact of

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Speaker 2: her work and her tragic death. You will have already

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Speaker 2: noticed that there is a voice missing from this episode.

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Speaker 2: Manuel Delia is not able to join us for legal reasons.

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Speaker 2: I'll come to shortly, but first let me introduce you

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Speaker 2: to the two fantastic guests that are alongside me in

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Speaker 2: this absence. Firstly, Ellen Trapp, a German journalist based in Munich.

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Speaker 2: At the time of Daphne's murder, Ellen was stationed in

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Speaker 2: Rome as head of studio for ARD, Germany's national television station.

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Speaker 2: She was also the correspondent responsible for ARD's coverage of

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Speaker 2: Malta and flew straight into the country hours after Daphne's

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Speaker 2: assassination to cover the story. Eleanor is now head of

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Speaker 2: the Culture department at Ard. Hello, Ellen, Hi, And also

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Speaker 2: we have Carlo Benini, Deputy editor in chief of the

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Speaker 2: Italian national paper Republica, an expert on the intersection of

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Speaker 2: organized crime and politics, an author of several books, including

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Speaker 2: Murder on the Matter Express, which he co authored with

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Speaker 2: me and Manuel Hi Carlo.

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Speaker 3: I'm Efrem.

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Speaker 2: We all three of something in common when Daphne was murdered.

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Speaker 2: We were all compelled to travel to Malta to be there,

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Speaker 2: to interrogate what had happened, and to tell Daphne's story

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Speaker 2: back in our home countries. So I'd like to start

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Speaker 2: first with your personal relationship to this story, Allen. Can

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Speaker 2: you tell me why this story is so important to you.

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Speaker 4: I remember John and I heard it in the podcast

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Speaker 4: in another episode that you entered the BBC office and

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Speaker 4: there was just like silence when the breaking news came up.

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Speaker 4: And meanwhile I'm talking, I'm just getting really emotional because

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Speaker 4: I remember my situation in the same moment I entered.

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Speaker 4: I was editing another story in Rome and a colleague

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Speaker 4: entered the edit room and he's said, you know what

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Speaker 4: happened Dafne Carojuana Calthia's dad, And I said, and my

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Speaker 4: first idea was she was sick. So I just checked

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Speaker 4: my phone, I checked the news and I thought no,

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Speaker 4: she wasn't sick. So we were discussing extremely fast how

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Speaker 4: to react and what we can do, and I remember

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Speaker 4: we booked the flight and I said, I'm going to

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Speaker 4: Malta immediately to cover the story because it just hit

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Speaker 4: me deep in my heart as a European citizen, as

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Speaker 4: a woman, and as a journalist. So it was for

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Speaker 4: me a very, very shocking moment, and I felt so

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Speaker 4: responsible to tell this story.

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Speaker 2: Carlo, tell me where were you when you heard the

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Speaker 2: news and what was your instant reaction.

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Speaker 3: Well, John, I was in my newsroom, and the news

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Speaker 3: was really like a shot, a shot in my newsroom

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Speaker 3: because Daphne had been working for a long time on

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Speaker 3: Panama papers and my newspaper was involved in the consorts

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Speaker 3: room which work on it, so Daphne was well known.

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Speaker 3: The result was that the very next day we were

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Speaker 3: on a flight to Balita, and I remember also that

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Speaker 3: we decided that we were going to cover the story

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Speaker 3: of Daphne, the death of Daphne, the murder of Daphne

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Speaker 3: as a domestic story, with the same pressure to follow

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Speaker 3: the story and to get to the bottom of it.

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Speaker 2: For my point, I can remember vividly the atmosphere in

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Speaker 2: the newsroom. But there was a sense of shot. I remember,

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Speaker 2: a sense of dread and a sense of cute. She

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Speaker 2: was We're gonna try and find out what happened here

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Speaker 2: because this is one of us is being killed, and

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Speaker 2: also a sense of determination as well. Ellenncarla, did you

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Speaker 2: feel that too, that this is one of us?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, of course, because she's one of us.

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Speaker 4: She was one of us, even if I didn't meet her,

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Speaker 4: which I feel really sad about today.

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Speaker 1: Still today she had in Germany.

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Speaker 4: You say, she has the nose to get the good stories,

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Speaker 4: you know, and she's like a good researcher, and she

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Speaker 4: was like a fantastic journalist. So that's the reason why

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Speaker 4: I felt so shocked, because yes, she was one of us.

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Speaker 3: Goll It, definitely she was, and I remember that. My

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Speaker 3: thought was, they cannot think that the story will die

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Speaker 3: with her. I mean, you can kill one journalist, you

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Speaker 3: can kill two journalists, you can kill those of journalist

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Speaker 3: so that he cannot kill journalism, and that I think

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Speaker 3: that was the best way to honor the life, the memory,

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Speaker 3: the passion of such a resilent woman.

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Speaker 2: Carlo. I want to buy you a drink, but it's

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Speaker 2: twelve thirty and you're in another country. So let's move

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Speaker 2: on to the first big important development and the reason

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Speaker 2: I'm without my co pilot Manuel today. On the nineteenth

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Speaker 2: of September twenty twenty four, a decree was fixed through

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Speaker 2: the door of the Course of Justice. In the letter,

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Speaker 2: it set out a ban on any writings, declarations, or

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Speaker 2: any public discussion on broadcast media or social media that

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Speaker 2: mentions the trial of Organ Fennik for the murder of

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Speaker 2: Daphne Carouana Glitzia. It seems that this ban also extends

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Speaker 2: to any discussion of Daphne's murder whatsoever, whether or not

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Speaker 2: Jurgen Fennick is referenced. The only exception is a reporting

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Speaker 2: of what happens in open court where journalists are allowed

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Speaker 2: to be present. A band like this is allowed under

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Speaker 2: an old Victorian Maltese law, but is very rarely used.

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Speaker 2: Daphne herself spoke out against this law, referencing another case.

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Speaker 2: She said, all the ban has done is to protect

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Speaker 2: the interests of the alleged aggressors. It also cheats the

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Speaker 2: public because of its need to see justice being done. Indeed,

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Speaker 2: the public in this situation doesn't even know whether justice

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Speaker 2: is being done. Manuel is challenging this ban on a

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Speaker 2: constitutional basis, but in the meantime we're respecting the judge's decision.

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Speaker 2: The first nine episodes of this series were recorded well

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Speaker 2: before the court degree, but as this episode has been

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Speaker 2: recorded after, Manuel is not participating. However, we understand that

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Speaker 2: those of us outside the Maltese jurisdiction are able to

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Speaker 2: continue to talk about this subject. So Ellen in Germany,

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Speaker 2: Carlo in Italy, and Me in Britain, respectively, will do

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Speaker 2: just that now. Jorgan Fennick denies the charges related to

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Speaker 2: Daphne's murder and is of course presumed innocent until proven guilty.

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Speaker 2: The express purpose of this ban is to protect Organ

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Speaker 2: Phenix's right to a fair trial. The issue I see

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Speaker 2: here is that whoever it was responsible for Daphne's murder

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Speaker 2: is responsible for the silencing of a journalist, and now

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Speaker 2: this decree seeks to silence all journalists on the subject

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Speaker 2: of Daphne's murder itself until his longer waited trial. We'll

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Speaker 2: talk about the delay, but what I want to talk

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Speaker 2: to you about first is this question of fairness. Carlo,

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Speaker 2: is it common for a European country to declare a

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Speaker 2: ban like this.

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Speaker 3: I can speak my country and there is no chance

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Speaker 3: that you can issue a better like this. We have

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Speaker 3: a constitutional right. And I think that you said the

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Speaker 3: right word before you said an ancient Victorian law. In

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Speaker 3: a Victorian age, you can think that a ban on

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Speaker 3: local papers could ensure sort of blanket effect. In twoenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four, in the digital age, choosing to apply a

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Speaker 3: Victorian law is nonsense and gives you the idea that

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Speaker 3: the let's say, the institutions in Malta are still afraid

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Speaker 3: of the truth. I think there is something desperate in

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Speaker 3: this man. That's what I think.

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Speaker 2: Allen, can I bring you in here? How do we

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Speaker 2: strite the balance between reporting what is in the public

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Speaker 2: interest and avoiding trial by media? What's reasonable? What's fair?

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Speaker 4: I think yes, it had there has to be and

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Speaker 4: I guess we all agree in that there has to

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Speaker 4: be a fair trial for everyone, and that's even a

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Speaker 4: European value. There is a public interest and that what

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Speaker 4: happened to Manuel, and that what happened in Malta over years. Yes,

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Speaker 4: I agree to what Carlos said. They are still afraid.

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Speaker 4: What's coming next? What's the end of the story and

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Speaker 4: I think over years they thought the power means you

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Speaker 4: are rich and you have the money. But this is

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Speaker 4: not the real power. The power we have is actually

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Speaker 4: the freedom of speech. We have the journalists, we have

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Speaker 4: a network, and the.

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Speaker 1: Jews has to come up at one point.

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Speaker 4: And so I think a fair trial, yes, but that

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Speaker 4: what happened in Malta is really.

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Speaker 1: I don't even find words for that.

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Speaker 3: May just add one thing. I am I am keen

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Speaker 3: on fair trial, but I think that a fair trial

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Speaker 3: relies for the strict application of the ruler law. A

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Speaker 3: fair trial has nothing to do with journalism or public debate.

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Speaker 3: A fair trial relies on the cautionists and the proficiency

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Speaker 3: of a professional judge.

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Speaker 2: There's a specific thing. At the moment, there is still

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Speaker 2: no date for the trial. The organ Fundic was arrested

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Speaker 2: in November twenty nineteen and then died of the murder

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Speaker 2: in August twenty twenty one. At the time of recording,

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Speaker 2: he's been held on remand almost five years now. It's

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Speaker 2: important to say that this is not unusual for Malta.

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Speaker 2: There are thirty three pending cases that have been waiting

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Speaker 2: even longer than this one, and the backlog won't be

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Speaker 2: cleared until twenty thirty seven, but the organ Fene's legal

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Speaker 2: team have also delayed things further with various appeals and complaints.

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Speaker 2: In fact, when Phene requested to have Madame just as

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Speaker 2: that Weena Greema removed from the case, he was denied

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Speaker 2: this until that this was solely the untem attempt to

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Speaker 2: uselessly prolong proceedings. So Carlo, tell me, do you think

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Speaker 2: this is a multi specific issue. Would we see delays

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Speaker 2: like this elsewhere with such a high profile case?

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Speaker 3: Well as you as you know, Italy is not at

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Speaker 3: the at the top of the for the top countries.

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Speaker 3: For you know, spitness of trials for five years? Five

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Speaker 3: years is long tin als. Sorry, I'm nothing too, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, Yeah, I mean, you're right, five years is

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Speaker 3: really a long time.

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Speaker 2: Even even for an Italian, even.

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Speaker 3: For the Italian standards.

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Speaker 2: It wouldn't happen in Britain for a trial of this

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Speaker 2: importance and this magnitude. The idea that you'd be waiting

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Speaker 2: five years, I can't see that happening here. What about

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Speaker 2: would it happen in German?

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Speaker 4: Allen, No, it wouldn't happen in German, even like these

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Speaker 4: high profile cases like NSU or wire cat this went

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Speaker 4: away faster.

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Speaker 3: Yes, No.

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Speaker 2: Implicit an affair trial is that it should happen in

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Speaker 2: a timely fashion, and that's not happening here. By the way,

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Speaker 2: I should point out that this sort of delay is

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Speaker 2: not only unfair for the victims of a crime, but

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Speaker 2: also for those accused of that crime. Organzanek has experienced

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Speaker 2: five years of prison conditions when he is still presumed innocent.

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Speaker 2: By the way, that's not uncommon in Malta. But Carlo,

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Speaker 2: do you think this speaks to a dis functional justice system?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: I think it speaks to political oriented justice. I think

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Speaker 3: that justice in Multa.

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Speaker 2: I mean's a crooked one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, I think it justice Si Malta

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Speaker 3: can work smoothly and quickly. Remember when dafinitely died investigators

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Speaker 3: investigators from USA were sent on the scene, the FBI

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Speaker 3: Italian investigators gave even important boosts, so uh they where

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Speaker 3: every There was everything at the time to lead a

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Speaker 3: fair investigation that could lead to a fair trial and

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Speaker 3: at a quick and fair trial.

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Speaker 2: Ellen, what are the consequences of waiting so long for

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Speaker 2: the trial in terms of witness memory, in terms of

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Speaker 2: how evidence may may start to Deuteria. One of the

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Speaker 2: consequences of waiting so long for Astrang.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's once the witnesses themselves who cannot even remember

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Speaker 4: what happened. Second, like the Maltese people who are not

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Speaker 4: any more interested in the case Stephan Carowana Galita because

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Speaker 4: it's years ago. It might be their purpose that they

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Speaker 4: want the Maltese people who are fighting for the truth

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Speaker 4: at some point just to tire it. So I'm really

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Speaker 4: afraid that this is their purpose, just to play and

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Speaker 4: wait so that.

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Speaker 1: One day nobody's asking anymore.

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Speaker 4: But I'm still optimistic that this will not happen.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's always good to be optimistic. But reporting on

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Speaker 2: this story, I think you could be forgiven for thinking

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Speaker 2: that things just as bad and most today as they

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Speaker 2: were seven years ago when Daphne was killed, that the

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Speaker 2: corruption and criminality that she warned us about continues to flourish. Ellen,

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Speaker 2: I'm interested in your time as a foreign journalist covering

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Speaker 2: multi stories. Can you paint us a picture of the

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Speaker 2: levels of corruption you found.

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Speaker 4: That I was wondering if I ever did a nice

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Speaker 4: story about Malta in all these years I stayed in

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Speaker 4: Rome and covering Malta. It was always about selling passports,

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Speaker 4: like the hospital deal, it.

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Speaker 1: Was about gambling.

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Speaker 4: And then the assassination of Dafne Cajuerana Galicia. I felt

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Speaker 4: the level of corruption in Malta was really, really high,

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Speaker 4: and I stayed in Italy, and I mean Caldo knows

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Speaker 4: that more than I do. I was, you know, I

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Speaker 4: was used to some corruption in another country, but and

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Speaker 4: I didn't expect that or Malta. They build it up

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Speaker 4: and whole economy in a sort of illegal way to

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Speaker 4: get the people rich. The people means not like the

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Speaker 4: normal people on the street we meet. The people means,

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Speaker 4: of course, the political class that had an interest in

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Speaker 4: becoming richer, doing deals, and that's what I saw over years.

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Speaker 2: There is the possibility that some things might be changing

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Speaker 2: in Malta. In May twenty twenty four, ex Prime Minister

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Speaker 2: Joseph Muscat with charged with accepting bribes, corruption and public

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Speaker 2: office and money laundering, amongst other things. All these charges

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Speaker 2: relate to a deal made to privatize free public hospitals

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Speaker 2: in Malta and also implicate Muscat's former chief of staff

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Speaker 2: Keith Scambrie and former cabinet minister Conrad Mitzi. You heard

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Speaker 2: about the hospital or briefly in episode seven. It's a

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Speaker 2: story that Daphne broke back in twenty fifteen. The actualization

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Speaker 2: is that multi public funds that were intended for hospital

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Speaker 2: upkeep and repair were instead funneled to private beneficiaries, including Muscat,

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Speaker 2: Skembury and Mitzi. All three men deny wrongdoing. This is

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Speaker 2: a complicated case and it will take time to resolve,

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Speaker 2: but it is still hugely significant that the former prime

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Speaker 2: minister has been taken to court on these charges. Carlo,

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Speaker 2: how can we measure whether corruption is at last being

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Speaker 2: properly addressed?

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Speaker 3: I think the lesson, the ultimate lesson from Daphne Smarther

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Speaker 3: is is that what's going on in Malta, what's going

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Speaker 3: on in many countries that are experiencing a deep, a

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Speaker 3: u huge crisis of democracy, is that when in a

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Speaker 3: country democracy turns into a what we call the mokretura,

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Speaker 3: something between a regime with the resemblance of democracy, that's

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Speaker 3: the place where corruptions is a bound.

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Speaker 4: Three.

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Speaker 3: You John experienced a long time in Ukraine on the

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Speaker 3: East Front. We know what's going on in Russia. I

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Speaker 3: think that when we speak about corruption, we are talking

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Speaker 3: about the crisis of democracies as we used to know them.

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Speaker 3: We are all more or less sons of the twentieth

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Speaker 3: century when democracies were conquered with the sacrifice of our

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Speaker 3: fathers or grandfathers. If we want to battle against corruption,

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Speaker 3: we have to fight to keep up with democracy in shape,

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Speaker 3: which means transparency, which means rule of law, which means

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Speaker 3: responsibility of each of us, beginning from the one who

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Speaker 3: does this beautiful job, which is journalism.

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Speaker 2: Beautifully put Karlo, one thing does more to have anti

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Speaker 2: mafia legislation, not I mean, as far as I know,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't correct answer. Surely that means it's going to

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Speaker 2: be difficult for the country to stand up for corruption

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Speaker 2: and the influence of organized crime.

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Speaker 3: Let's try to say that there is an organized crime

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Speaker 3: families in Moldo Islands and try to do that. It

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Speaker 3: seems to me sadly that Malta has many many roads

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Speaker 3: to go to face the reality and to face the truth.

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Speaker 3: Remember John, when they decided to clean up the main

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Speaker 3: road in Valleta from candles and flowers, remembering and honoring

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Speaker 3: Dahny because that flowers in that candles put a shade

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Speaker 3: on the image of the island. There's the same stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So this is what Colin's referring to folks is

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Speaker 2: every night her supporters were put up a little shrine.

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Speaker 2: They'll put up photographs and be flowers and reefs, and

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Speaker 2: every night, day after day after day, the bin men

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Speaker 2: would come and take it down and listen. Part of

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Speaker 2: this conversation we're having here and this whole series is

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Speaker 2: about remembering Daphne Caronic let say herself, and what she

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Speaker 2: stood for. She thought so fiercely against corruption, as we've

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Speaker 2: discussed already, and of course for freedom of speech and

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Speaker 2: the importance of journalism. When I think about Daphne and

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Speaker 2: what she took on in defense of journalism, and when

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Speaker 2: I look around me today in twenty four I worry

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Speaker 2: about the state and the independence of journalism around the world.

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Speaker 2: Or am I being a bit of a cynic Ellen?

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Speaker 4: I would love to be optimistic, but right now I'm

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Speaker 4: not really because even I mean, populism fights journalism, and

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Speaker 4: we see it in the US and we see it.

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Speaker 1: In several countries.

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Speaker 4: So it's so hard to get to the people with

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Speaker 4: real news. And I realized in Germany that the interest

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Speaker 4: in some TikTok reels and insta stories from right wing

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Speaker 4: parties are so much more popular than a high quality

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Speaker 4: journalism story about corruption or organized crime or the war

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Speaker 4: in the Ukraine or whatever happens in Israel and Gaza,

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Speaker 4: and so I think, of course, the journalism is in

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Speaker 4: danger and makes our work, our work so much harder

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Speaker 4: and so much more complicated, as the people interested in

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Speaker 4: easy answers in a really complicated, crazy world. Right now,

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Speaker 4: the people are ignoring or think they think we are

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Speaker 4: just like the left wing fake news idiots. And to

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Speaker 4: fight against this is really, really hard. And I never

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Speaker 4: had a situation in my journalistic life that I felt

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Speaker 4: so pessimistic that I'm right now. I remember the first

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Speaker 4: day I stayed in Valletta after the assassination, and I

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Speaker 4: did like a box pop in the streets of Valletta,

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Speaker 4: and I asked the people what what about Dafne And

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Speaker 4: some said she's like which I'm happy she's dead now,

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Speaker 4: And it was like, there's a woman fearless in Malta,

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Speaker 4: a journalist.

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Speaker 1: She's doing a great work.

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Speaker 4: And sometimes maybe one of your the blog stories you

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Speaker 4: didn't like, Okay, that's fair enough, but searching for the

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Speaker 4: truth might be a value we just should fight for.

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Speaker 4: And I think this is a really hard work we

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Speaker 4: have to do right now.

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Speaker 2: I mean proud my career. There's always been very powerful

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Speaker 2: media barons, for example the Murder family who control big

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Speaker 2: newspapers in Britain, but also Fox News and all of that.

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Speaker 2: But now there's something new, twister X whatever they call

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Speaker 2: it these days, controlled by Elon Musk. So, Carlo, do

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Speaker 2: you worry that the power of a very small number

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Speaker 2: of individuals have it in shaping our global conversations is

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Speaker 2: a threat to democracy and independent journalism?

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Speaker 3: Definitely? It is. Oh, I agree with you. Democracies are

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Speaker 3: at risk, are in danger, are sieged a populism as

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Speaker 3: Ellen was saying that, As you know, I am an

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Speaker 3: optimistic Italian. So I think that we have a chance

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Speaker 3: and we work it out. There where other times when

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Speaker 3: everything seemed lost, when journalism seem to have no space

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Speaker 3: to go, and sometimes when I see my younger mates

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Speaker 3: here in the news group, sometimes in good days, I

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Speaker 3: think we'll work it out. They were as in Athlete,

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Speaker 3: there were there.

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Speaker 5: Were new generation of young journalists, independent journalists, bloggers whoever

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Speaker 5: as this wonderful energy to fight for democracy and to

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Speaker 5: keep the to keep.

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Speaker 3: The light on. And also if you love to tell

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Speaker 3: of yourself that you are an old cynical Brits, my

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Speaker 3: dear John, what you did in the last couple of

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Speaker 3: years in Ukraine, it's the proof that we will work

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Speaker 3: it out, the journalists will survive.

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Speaker 2: I've been put in my place by an optimistic Italian.

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Speaker 2: I do believe that storytelling will out, the truth will out,

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Speaker 2: and the best stories that are told are the stories

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Speaker 2: that power and money don't want to be told. I'd

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Speaker 2: like to draw things to a close here by remembering

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Speaker 2: that Daphney continues to be a beacon for fearless independent

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Speaker 2: journalism long after she's gone. And it's extraordinary to me

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Speaker 2: that she died seven years ago and yet the repercussions

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Speaker 2: of her story she broke continue to be felt to

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Speaker 2: this day. But of course we can't forget that the

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Speaker 2: things she thought so fearlessly against corruption and the silent

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Speaker 2: saying a free speech that continues to be a violatle

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Speaker 2: struggle in Malta and across the whole world today. So

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Speaker 2: I'd like to ask you both about Daphne's legacy. What

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Speaker 2: do you think are the enduring lessons we can take

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Speaker 2: from the life and work of Daphne Carona Galicia Alan.

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Speaker 1: First, Wow, that's a big question.

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Speaker 4: Jews must be told, be fearless, work in a network

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Speaker 4: values fairness, transparency, justice. There's such a lot I have

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Speaker 4: in my backpack after the murder, after the assassination of Dafne,

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Speaker 4: and I hope a lot of us will carry that on,

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Speaker 4: even a Malta. And let me say this, even I

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Speaker 4: wish for that Karwana Galicia family that wants there will

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Speaker 4: be that day when all the when the big picture

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Speaker 4: Jews comes up and they just can close the darkest

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Speaker 4: chapter of their life.

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Speaker 1: So much Carlo, I guess you have a bit to tell.

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Speaker 3: Well, I I think there is one lesson more than

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Speaker 3: any other that Daphne's life as a journalist and Daughne's

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Speaker 3: mother tell us. And the major lesson to me is

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Speaker 3: don't be afraid to be alone. Don't be afraid to

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Speaker 3: be alone in uh in the saying in writing what

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Speaker 3: do you think is the truth? Don't think that being

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Speaker 3: alone is at the evidence of a mistake. Loneliness sometimes,

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Speaker 3: many times, especially in our job in journalism, is the

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Speaker 3: main road to uncover what the other don't want to

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Speaker 3: don't want to hear, don't want to see, or try

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Speaker 3: not to be discovered. So Batane was alone, was alone

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Speaker 3: among her friends, was alonge among her people, was along

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Speaker 3: in her homeland, that at the end she found out

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Speaker 3: that she was not at all alone.

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Speaker 2: Beautifully poor, my own two pennyies on this. Her life

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Speaker 2: and her work spoke to a simple truth. But all

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Speaker 2: the power and money and all the corruption in the

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Speaker 2: world will never ever silence, and that is this The

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Speaker 2: truth will apt. So I need to thank my two

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Speaker 2: fantastic guests, Allen Trapp and Carlo Benini. Thank you very much,

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Speaker 2: both of you. We reached out to representatives for Organthhanic

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Speaker 2: to request their comments on some of the questions raised

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Speaker 2: in our reporting. While the case is still awaiting trial,

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Speaker 2: representatives for Organthhonic declined to comment on the ongoing court

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Speaker 2: cases or this story in general. Organthhanic denies all the

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Speaker 2: charges relating to the murder of Daphne Carolina Galitzia and

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Speaker 2: has stated that he is focused and confident on proving

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Speaker 2: his innocence in a court of law. Former Prime Minister

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Speaker 2: Joseph Muscats representative declined our request for an interview. He

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Speaker 2: is pleaded not guilty to all charges relating to the privatization.

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Speaker 2: Conrad Mitzi did not respond to our requests for an interview.

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Speaker 2: Keif sch Genbrie declined our request for an interview. Crooks

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Speaker 2: Everywhere is a production of iHeart Podcasts, Topic Studios and Vespucci.

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Speaker 2: This episode was hosted by me John Sweeney. The producer

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Speaker 2: is Maddie Hikesh. The managing producers are Thomas Curry and

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Speaker 2: Rachel Byrne. The voice of Daphne Carojana Glitzia is played

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Speaker 2: by Sienna Miller, acting direction by Christopher Houten. The executive

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Speaker 2: producers are Johnny Galvin and Daniel Turkin Vespucci, Gritty Gressman

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Speaker 2: at Topic Studios, Katrina Novelle and Nikki Etoor at iHeart

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Speaker 2: Podcasts and Sienna Miller. Marketing lead is David Wasserman. Audio

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Speaker 2: mix and sound design by Joel Cox.