Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Real
Speaker 1: Time Crime. I'm one of your hosts, Lea Lamar, and
Speaker 1: I've got with me Teddy Mellencamp. Hi, Hi, Teddy Teddy.
Speaker 1: I think the real crime is how are you so
Speaker 1: naturally beautiful? I think the real crime is that you
Speaker 1: have a background now that shows you as like a
Speaker 1: real detective, and I still have my original background. I
Speaker 1: want to just let you know that I'm sweating through
Speaker 1: my coat and I thought it would be fun, but
Speaker 1: it's it's not fun. It doesn't feel fun. It feels
Speaker 1: very hot and not in the sexy fun way. But
Speaker 1: it's making your face look very glowy. That's it's giving
Speaker 1: you good. It's giving you a good glow, a natural glow. Dmitri,
Speaker 1: did we hear you laugh? Did we say you could?
Speaker 1: Are you allowed to speak on this podcast? Producers? Dmitri? Hello,
Speaker 1: Dmitri Hello. Here's the thing I said. I would speak
Speaker 1: very minimally, but I'm not allowed to mute. And if
Speaker 1: you guys are gonna sit there like saying stuff like that,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna laugh. I'll muffle it as much as I can,
Speaker 1: but this is gonna happen, I'm sorry. We were talking
Speaker 1: about the beautiful glow I have on my face for
Speaker 1: my trench coat. Thank you. I thought it was funny
Speaker 1: that you got this trench coat to look you know, inspectory,
Speaker 1: and now you're super uncomfortable and I don't know, I
Speaker 1: gotta kick out of that. Yeah, this isn't quite the
Speaker 1: right fit for me. You know, I thought crime, but
Speaker 1: make it fashion. But Zara doesn't know how to do crime.
Speaker 1: Well what we do, which is why we need to
Speaker 1: get to business, guys. And I have to start by
Speaker 1: saying thank you to one of our listeners who sent
Speaker 1: me a d M about the Gabby Potito case, which
Speaker 1: of course there's been some updates, but also not any
Speaker 1: more information on find finding Brian. But something we didn't
Speaker 1: think about. Remember the last text that she was sending
Speaker 1: about stand where where I was saying maybe Brian was
Speaker 1: sending the stand text. Somebody named Justine sent me a
Speaker 1: d M and said, maybe it wasn't about someone named Stan.
Speaker 1: Maybe stand meant text, uh send in send the authorities.
Speaker 1: Now I just got the chills down my spine. Is
Speaker 1: that a known entity? I don't know. I just got
Speaker 1: I was just going through my damns when I was,
Speaker 1: because you guys were a couple of minutes later just
Speaker 1: saying and I wasn't late. I don't know. I clocked
Speaker 1: in at so I wouldn't. He didn't click in until
Speaker 1: even thirty one, So whoever, maybe three? But Dmitri, you
Speaker 1: want Teddy to think I'm late? Guys, that was totally
Speaker 1: my fault. You know, I couldn't. Don't thank you. Thank
Speaker 1: you for taking the blame on this, Dmitri. But Teddy, Okay,
Speaker 1: So is stand actually is this something that is common practice?
Speaker 1: Because I don't know, it seems that's I like this theory.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't like it, but it's an interesting theory. However,
Speaker 1: if she was really in help, don't you think she
Speaker 1: would just be more direct about it? I mean, may
Speaker 1: she maybe she was scared he would look at her phone?
Speaker 1: I mean, didn't he end up with her phone? That's interesting.
Speaker 1: That's that's such a that's such a detailed thing. Like
Speaker 1: unless somebody knew this is a code and knew what Like,
Speaker 1: there's no way someone's going to see that and be
Speaker 1: like oh s t a n oh, that's probably send
Speaker 1: the authorities now, Like, unless they had a code set
Speaker 1: up to know about. I think that's I appreciate the
Speaker 1: input from from Justine, but that seems a little far
Speaker 1: faster me. It's very creative and insightful and possibly true. However,
Speaker 1: it is also odd that her grandfather's name is Stan.
Speaker 1: Very true, but I did have to say because it's
Speaker 1: something that we did miss. It is a coincidence, and
Speaker 1: we did miss it. But I also just want to
Speaker 1: just for the listeners, go back for three seconds and
Speaker 1: talk about the last podcast that we had. During the
Speaker 1: taping of our podcast, we got the news of her
Speaker 1: autopsy and the results of her death, which we found
Speaker 1: out with strangulation and throttling. But they haven't yet identified
Speaker 1: any additional information. Well, they might have, but they didn't
Speaker 1: clue us into that, for example, whether or not she
Speaker 1: was under the ground or above the ground, if there
Speaker 1: was any DNA evidence on her body. So we don't
Speaker 1: have any of that information just yet. But we have
Speaker 1: been clued into the cause of death. We already knew
Speaker 1: it was homicide, but we didn't have that additional information.
Speaker 1: So I just wanted to use that as a springboard
Speaker 1: to move forward with the Gabby Petito case and new
Speaker 1: information that we have and later on in the episode,
Speaker 1: we are going to actually have on a private detective
Speaker 1: who is going to answer so many questions that I
Speaker 1: think will help us decipher some of the things that
Speaker 1: we are so you know, lost on as just individuals
Speaker 1: trying to decipher the case, like all of the other
Speaker 1: slutes out there, wanting to understand what Brian is doing.
Speaker 1: Like something that I was thinking about. I was watching
Speaker 1: the sixty Minutes Australia that um Gabby's parents and stepfather
Speaker 1: Diad was do innocent people run ever? And I think
Speaker 1: we heard innocent people don't run? Right. It's interesting because
Speaker 1: I don't want to parlay this away from this case
Speaker 1: because we have so much to talk about, and I
Speaker 1: know with our private investigator, Jeff McGrath, we will go
Speaker 1: in depth into detail. But this is also tying into
Speaker 1: Robert Durst, who's now back in the media, because innocent
Speaker 1: people don't run is a very interesting concept because we
Speaker 1: both know that he ran and was claiming his innocence,
Speaker 1: but of course he has now been convicted of murder
Speaker 1: of his best friends in Berman and life in jail
Speaker 1: without parole. However, he's now on a ventilator in the
Speaker 1: hospital with COVID nineteen. I want to just tell you
Speaker 1: right now, I'm holding my tongue and don't you dare
Speaker 1: I mean here, you're here, this is that's what this
Speaker 1: is for. I mean, you know, I just I have
Speaker 1: so many thoughts about it. Am I allowed to completely
Speaker 1: derail from Gabby Petito at the moment and swing over
Speaker 1: to Robert Durst or well? I mean I think first off,
Speaker 1: he wasn't wearing his mask correctly in court. Well, he
Speaker 1: kept taking it off and putting it back on, apparently,
Speaker 1: And I think it's probably because he was having trouble breathing.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of the people closest to
Speaker 1: him have been taking COVID tests making sure that they're negative,
Speaker 1: and canceled their personal travel plans as well. From what
Speaker 1: I've read on the news. Did I just say news
Speaker 1: on the new was oh my in nineteen forties detective Um?
Speaker 1: But yeah, thank you. I'm honestly I am. I am
Speaker 1: boiling in here. This was a poor choice. I just
Speaker 1: want to let everyone know that I didn't make a
Speaker 1: mistake this morning. I mean, can you not to stop
Speaker 1: in derail here? But can you just take it off?
Speaker 1: That's not like a Dickie underneath right, like, that's a
Speaker 1: did you just ask me to take my trench cod? Now?
Speaker 1: Now we're getting all kinds hr hr. I just meant
Speaker 1: if it meant you would be more comfortable. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is getting work ahead here. Can we cut this out? No?
Speaker 1: Keep it in. It's hilarious but also okay, also ill,
Speaker 1: I think it's important for me to make note of
Speaker 1: the fact that there is a lot of comedy in tragedy,
Speaker 1: and there's a time and a place for comedy. I'm
Speaker 1: a comedian and we all know that, and so sometimes
Speaker 1: the way that I deal with uncomfortable information is to
Speaker 1: make jokes about it. But there's nothing funny about murder,
Speaker 1: and I don't think that it works for me to
Speaker 1: make jokes about that. And I'm a human being, um,
Speaker 1: and I feel for all the people that have passed.
Speaker 1: But I'd like to just make a note of the
Speaker 1: fact that the things and elements surrounding cases. I like
Speaker 1: to add moments of levity for my heart and my
Speaker 1: brain because that's how I process pain and trauma. And
Speaker 1: if you ever watch my stand up, you will also
Speaker 1: see that it's basically me just punching down on myself,
Speaker 1: so I just I just make fun of myself mercilessly.
Speaker 1: And oh boy, if you've ever dated me, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: But that's a warning to all the men out there. Now.
Speaker 1: I'd like to go back into quickly talking about Robert
Speaker 1: Durst again, so you also don't want to date him
Speaker 1: because he also, I mean, he did murder his millionaire
Speaker 1: I know, well, allegedly he he has not been convicted
Speaker 1: of murdering his ex wife yet she is missing and
Speaker 1: she has never been found. He was convicted recently of
Speaker 1: murdering Susan Berman, his best friend, and allegedly because she
Speaker 1: was going to meet with the press over details of that,
Speaker 1: she may or may not have known what happened to
Speaker 1: his ex wife. And then she mysteriously went, um, no,
Speaker 1: she didn't go missing. She was just flat up murdered.
Speaker 1: And she was she was shot execution style in the
Speaker 1: back of the head, and there were no signs of
Speaker 1: forced entry, which means that it was a friend or
Speaker 1: someone she knew that she welcomed into her home and
Speaker 1: then she was shot execution style on the back of
Speaker 1: the head. And so Teddy, I know you watched Jinks,
Speaker 1: of course, and I and what they are implying on
Speaker 1: the show on the documentary was she was also having
Speaker 1: Susan Burman was also having money trouble and it was
Speaker 1: something that was be above her too potentially or allegedly
Speaker 1: blackmail someone by saying, if you don't pay me, I
Speaker 1: am going to come forward with this information. So in
Speaker 1: the documentary they had said that could potentially had been
Speaker 1: the cause of why this ended up happening. It's also
Speaker 1: interesting because Robert gave her I think over a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, especially close to the last few months of
Speaker 1: her life, and I know that he was going to
Speaker 1: visit her for the holidays, which she apparently was super
Speaker 1: excited about. And the documentary gave me chills for a
Speaker 1: number of reasons. Obviously for anyone who's watched all the
Speaker 1: way to the end. Uh no spoilers, but to spoil
Speaker 1: he says, I killed them all when his mike still
Speaker 1: hot and he's in the bathroom also listening to the
Speaker 1: man nearly vomit and p and talk about his burping
Speaker 1: while he's realizing he got got from his handwriting and
Speaker 1: the block letters and the misspelling of the word Beverly
Speaker 1: on the letters. I mean, it was a little much
Speaker 1: for me, to be honest. I was like, we're too
Speaker 1: close and personal with this man. Couldn't they have edited
Speaker 1: out the farting and the burping? No, And I mean
Speaker 1: it for anyone that doesn't know what when the mike's hot,
Speaker 1: the mike the mike hot doesn't mean it's like warm
Speaker 1: on you, the mike hot mean yeah. Like I didn't
Speaker 1: know about the mike hot until I personally was on
Speaker 1: a reality television show, and like I thought, if there
Speaker 1: wasn't a camera like facing me at the moment that
Speaker 1: I was, I was done. I was like, in the
Speaker 1: in the clear. No, if there is a mike pack
Speaker 1: on you, you are. Anything you say can and will
Speaker 1: be held against you. And it's what's so ironic is
Speaker 1: that the comedy club that I created on a house
Speaker 1: is called hot on the mic. And it's two fold.
Speaker 1: It's a double entendre because everyone who does called me
Speaker 1: there is sexy, okay, but then also he hates he
Speaker 1: can't he can't even look at me. And then the
Speaker 1: other reason is because comedians there are doing crowd work
Speaker 1: left and right, and you're just going there's no way
Speaker 1: to just turn your mic off. And stop talking. Anything
Speaker 1: that you say could be recorded at any time, and
Speaker 1: usually everything is hilarious, So, you know, I think that
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. Obviously what Robert or says is not hilarious,
Speaker 1: but I think it's interesting that there was some foreshadowing
Speaker 1: before that final moment where he's they take a break
Speaker 1: during the interview. Do you remember this, Teddy? They take
Speaker 1: a break and he starts talking and and saying out
Speaker 1: loud to himself when he thinks that the mic is
Speaker 1: off because he's not. He doesn't realize that that you
Speaker 1: actually have to turn the mic pack off manually basically,
Speaker 1: and he just starts talking to himself. He's like, intentionally,
Speaker 1: did I intentionally lie? No, no, one didn't. You didn't
Speaker 1: intentionally lie. You could leave things out. And his lawyer
Speaker 1: comes over to him and it's like, your mike is hot.
Speaker 1: We we just heard everything you said. Oh yeah, because
Speaker 1: he you you know, you can tell that he's actually
Speaker 1: trying to prep himself on what he's going to say
Speaker 1: in the next interview piece like you do that in
Speaker 1: any interview if you're like about to join an interview.
Speaker 1: The problem is his mike was on, he's being recorded
Speaker 1: and he's doing it about murder. The thing is that
Speaker 1: it's very clear he's hyper intelligent. He's an extremely smart man.
Speaker 1: Obviously he has gotten away allegedly with multiple murders until recently.
Speaker 1: And I mean he's very again also, I mean, if
Speaker 1: you've got an endless pot of money, there's some money
Speaker 1: at the problem, make it go away. He had, you know,
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of um fees
Speaker 1: that he sent towards lawyers, originally just to get the
Speaker 1: two best lawyers on the case to help him get
Speaker 1: out of the Morris Black murder. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: it was more than I was a hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: thousand or well was his bail. And then but also
Speaker 1: he won because his current was either fiance or wife.
Speaker 1: I'm not and I actually love her. She can I
Speaker 1: just say that she's your sassy New Yorker. Great. I
Speaker 1: was like, is that me in twenty years from now? Well,
Speaker 1: now you be married to a serial killer. But she
Speaker 1: she was just so straightforward. She was you can tell
Speaker 1: she's very concerned about the money. She's very concerned. She
Speaker 1: is really rapped. She's upset that he wasn't a part
Speaker 1: of the business. She doesn't even care about the murder situation.
Speaker 1: She's like, anyways, I'm upset that you weren't a part
Speaker 1: of the business. That your brothers pu you out. Like
Speaker 1: She's like, this is why we need the top lawyers,
Speaker 1: because we need your hand more in the money. Well.
Speaker 1: She also she also told him that she would divorce
Speaker 1: him if he didn't get rid of his first lawyer
Speaker 1: because the first lawyer wanted him to plead insanity and
Speaker 1: if you played insanity, then they would get in control
Speaker 1: of all of the money, and that she wouldn't get
Speaker 1: any of the money. Yeah, she she had a you know,
Speaker 1: she saw dollar signs all of the time. And all
Speaker 1: I'm saying is smart woman. But he had very Oh yeah, no,
Speaker 1: you're right. How do how do you could write a
Speaker 1: book how to marry a serial killer? But an alleged
Speaker 1: serial killer? But his patience level is not hot because
Speaker 1: even when he was talking about his first wife, Kathy,
Speaker 1: and he was talking about her mother and he was
Speaker 1: talking I mean, granted, we all have mother in laws,
Speaker 1: they could be a little bit tricky, but he was
Speaker 1: like this talking about how Kathy would get bummed or
Speaker 1: the mom would get bummed. Because he couldn't talk to her,
Speaker 1: and he was like, she would read these magazines, and
Speaker 1: then he would start blinking away, and then he'd be like,
Speaker 1: and I don't care, you know, I couldn't be bothered.
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about her magazines. And you're
Speaker 1: just sitting there and you're like, you couldn't give her
Speaker 1: two minutes. You couldn't give two minutes of time. It's
Speaker 1: interesting because I think that the documentary at first kind
Speaker 1: of humanizes him a little bit, and you can see
Speaker 1: the way, in my opinion, the interviewer starts to build
Speaker 1: this rapport with him, which by the end of the
Speaker 1: series you can see that he also is kind of
Speaker 1: bummed that he finally realizes that he is a murderer.
Speaker 1: And I think he truly wanted to believe that it
Speaker 1: wasn't so, and that he was kind of painted um incorrectly.
Speaker 1: But it's really hard every time I listened to any
Speaker 1: of the conversations he has, it's really hard to see
Speaker 1: a serial killer as someone who is every conversation with
Speaker 1: the words bye bye. And I don't know how that's
Speaker 1: possible to make him look innocent or nice or kind,
Speaker 1: But the way that he carries himself, and the way
Speaker 1: that he made an entire jury laugh during his trial
Speaker 1: against the murder of Morris Black. Lets you know that
Speaker 1: it probably was difficult for him to be nailed down
Speaker 1: as a murderer because there's something about him that is
Speaker 1: so charming and it's probably the reason why he survived
Speaker 1: as long without getting taken down. But I think also
Speaker 1: something I want to ask um, I want to ask
Speaker 1: Jeff about is his mother's suicide and what that plays
Speaker 1: into what you turn into, Like was are you born
Speaker 1: this way or is this something that after seeing such
Speaker 1: a traumatic event that it you become teddy? Another great
Speaker 1: point you brought up. You're still good with these details, Okay.
Speaker 1: So something that I found interesting was that him and
Speaker 1: Susan Berman bonded immediately because they both had parents died
Speaker 1: at an early age, and Susan's dad was in the mob,
Speaker 1: and you know, she was a self proclaimed mafia princess,
Speaker 1: and so you know, they actually originally thought that her
Speaker 1: death was by mob because the execution style hit is
Speaker 1: very mafia like, right, Um, until you know they realized
Speaker 1: it was Robert. But I think that in this case,
Speaker 1: the fact that both of them had parents died from
Speaker 1: an early age, and that Robert witnessed his mother's suicide.
Speaker 1: There's an impact that it has on young children where
Speaker 1: it creates personality disorders, and whether it's borderline personality, narcissist,
Speaker 1: narcissistic personality, psychopathy, socio path tendencies, there are different ways
Speaker 1: in which this starts to manifest in young children, and
Speaker 1: so a lot of it's almost as if when you
Speaker 1: when you read about narcissism that children who have narcissistic
Speaker 1: traits are usually because they were either ill parented as
Speaker 1: children or had a lack of a parent growing up,
Speaker 1: and it's childhood abuses essentially also and and blocking out
Speaker 1: certain memories. But also not only did she commit suicide,
Speaker 1: he also had to live a lie because it came
Speaker 1: forward like they announced it as that she fell. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he's now covering up as a child. Not only
Speaker 1: are you forced to live that you saw your mother
Speaker 1: commit suicide, you now are living a live for your
Speaker 1: for your entire family that that's not what happened. And historically,
Speaker 1: the sickness is in the secrets. And I think it
Speaker 1: feels like he spent his entire lifetime just not trying
Speaker 1: to get justice for it in a way, because I
Speaker 1: think that for him, he felt probably so slighted and
Speaker 1: was probably never felt seen or heard, and was denied
Speaker 1: the experience of grief and trauma. And so I mean,
Speaker 1: not deny the experience of trauma, just denied the experience
Speaker 1: of grief. And so I don't know if he lacked
Speaker 1: empathy growing up because he didn't know how to grieve
Speaker 1: or wasn't allowed to grieve. I mean, also, God, sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm a rambles city today, But I also remember hearing
Speaker 1: in the documentary about how how he went to his
Speaker 1: mother's funeral and he didn't quite understand what was happening,
Speaker 1: and they said, you know, mommy is always going to
Speaker 1: be with you, and he goes, wait, mommy's in the box.
Speaker 1: Why is mommy going in the ground, and try to
Speaker 1: stop the guy from lowering the casket into the ground.
Speaker 1: That's so traumatic, And especially if they never got him
Speaker 1: any help afterwards and anyone to talk to or and
Speaker 1: and I don't know what the situation how it was
Speaker 1: different for his siblings, because in the documentary they don't
Speaker 1: say anything if like the dad brought any of the
Speaker 1: other siblings out to watch that, or if it was
Speaker 1: only him. I also think it kind of robs you
Speaker 1: of a childhood in a way. Of course this isn't
Speaker 1: my personal opinion, but when you were forced to be
Speaker 1: a secret keeper a k and adult from an early
Speaker 1: age and you're allowed to speak your truth or seek
Speaker 1: your truth, I think that there's a um, a disconnect
Speaker 1: in your brain. And I think that he missed out on.
Speaker 1: I think it stones your growth emotionally, and so you
Speaker 1: kind of are just living as an adult, but in
Speaker 1: the emotional brain of a child essentially. And and something
Speaker 1: that ties these two cases together, actually the Robert Durst
Speaker 1: in the Gabby Potito cases also um the domestic abuse
Speaker 1: because in both cases and and Robert Durst kind of
Speaker 1: kept dismissing it. Actually he kept saying, you know, it
Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't It wasn't like I hit her. I
Speaker 1: was just like shoving and slapping, Like that's nobody Like
Speaker 1: he just kept saying it. It's like, oh, well, no,
Speaker 1: that wasn't a big fight. That was just just shoving
Speaker 1: and slapping fight. Yes, So so what she fell to
Speaker 1: the floor, It's like, yeah, like it was this and
Speaker 1: and and when you watched Gabby talk about it. She
Speaker 1: was like, well, no, it wasn't. He didn't really hit me.
Speaker 1: He just you know, pinched my face or you know
Speaker 1: whatever it was. But it's it's always when it's it's
Speaker 1: just it's just you know, that's when you know uses
Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, I remember. God, It's like, there are
Speaker 1: one thousand details I want to go into. And there's
Speaker 1: also something to be said about the fact that again
Speaker 1: both Brian and Robert ran. The only difference is that
Speaker 1: Robert was hiding in plain sight and he was dressing
Speaker 1: as a woman in disguise in Galveston, Texas before he
Speaker 1: uh allegedly well before there was self defense and um
Speaker 1: along with the killing of Morris Black or so it
Speaker 1: was ruled. But I think they're looking into that again
Speaker 1: because he then uh eviscerated his body and put them
Speaker 1: in bags and threw them in a body of water.
Speaker 1: So I think that's something that they're revisiting well, and
Speaker 1: which brings me to the next question. When when I
Speaker 1: was doing all of this research for Today, something that
Speaker 1: kept coming up when I was researching serial killers was
Speaker 1: if somebody has killed multiple people but they do it
Speaker 1: in order to protect their freedom, are they considered serial
Speaker 1: killers versus somebody that kills because they get off on killing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they're both serial killers. It's just a different
Speaker 1: theme as to why they're doing it. But if you're
Speaker 1: killing multiple people, it's just you know, just getting rid
Speaker 1: of them whenever you feel like it. I think you
Speaker 1: have to fall onto that thing under that category. My
Speaker 1: think Robert Durst killed because he was a stone called
Speaker 1: killer or allegedly or do you think that he killed
Speaker 1: because he just wanted to protect his from getting put
Speaker 1: in jail? Like when I think about Brian Laundry, I
Speaker 1: think he had rage always. Well, it seems like Brian
Speaker 1: and Robert had that in common. And if Cathy, whose
Speaker 1: body has never been found to this day, so if
Speaker 1: her disappearance was actually a murder, right, and perhaps it
Speaker 1: was something similar to the Gabby Bryan situation, where is
Speaker 1: a passion of crime, a strangulation and then you know,
Speaker 1: maybe he freaked out, buried her, whatever he did to
Speaker 1: the body, it's never been found. And then the fact
Speaker 1: that Susan Berman just randomly was murdered when she was
Speaker 1: about to speak to the police and cooperate with authorities,
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like he's killing because um that that
Speaker 1: to me just shows that he is refusing to Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's refusing to take accountability. Also, I just want to
Speaker 1: let everyone know not only do I not have a
Speaker 1: sociology or psychology degree, but these are just my thoughts
Speaker 1: and opinions, and I'm probably wrong, thank you on on
Speaker 1: half of the things I'm saying, Just to be clear,
Speaker 1: I think legally you didn't have to throw in that
Speaker 1: you're probably wrong. But all the alleged leads is nice.
Speaker 1: It's a nice We're just trying to sound smart. Here
Speaker 1: is it working? Dmitri? I think I think all of
Speaker 1: this is obviously speculation, and you know, we're all doing
Speaker 1: our best to figure out what it is that makes
Speaker 1: people taking it. And something that I think that we
Speaker 1: that I want to dig into, especially once we get
Speaker 1: him on, is why everybody has been so closed? Why
Speaker 1: why the FBI has been so closed? You know, everything's
Speaker 1: been so kept quiet, especially when Gabby's body was found
Speaker 1: one day after a YouTuber showed where the van was.
Speaker 1: The van was shown on a Saturday, and Gabby's body
Speaker 1: was found on a Sunday the day after, And so
Speaker 1: is the question, why are they not filling us in
Speaker 1: more of the details. Yeah, if we could help not
Speaker 1: we not me, but if if people could help Listen,
Speaker 1: the more he's gone and hiding, he's not going to
Speaker 1: come out and be like, oh, I was just camping.
Speaker 1: What happened? To fill me in? Like, obviously we all
Speaker 1: have our own opinions. I don't think there's many people
Speaker 1: out there that that think he's not responsible for this,
Speaker 1: and we don't know whether he is or not. But
Speaker 1: I think everybody feels that way. And so the longer
Speaker 1: he's gone, the more at his points to that. So
Speaker 1: it's like, where does this end? To your point? Leah
Speaker 1: also that it was interesting that they said strangulation by human.
Speaker 1: They made a note of that, and I was like,
Speaker 1: what are the other strangulation by snake by? I think
Speaker 1: it was just such an By the way, according to
Speaker 1: Jammi Lavada, you can't say alien anymore. Oh, you're right,
Speaker 1: I'm Demi's going to cancel me. I know it's very
Speaker 1: offensive to the extraterrestrials. Is that word offensive? It should
Speaker 1: be because it's extra. You're not even calling them right now,
Speaker 1: You're saying extra like they're not needed. It's also extra.
Speaker 1: I just called if you guys could prefer to me
Speaker 1: as extraly, I'd really appreciate it, thank you. Um, do
Speaker 1: we want to dig in a little bit speaking of
Speaker 1: whatever Brian's eating, about the peanut butter sandwiches at all? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you like Jeff. Okay, So, according to the United States
Speaker 1: Department of Justice, Jonathan Toby from Annapolis, Maryland, was allegedly
Speaker 1: willing to sell sensitive details about our nuclear powered submarines
Speaker 1: of foreign government and hid that info and half of
Speaker 1: a peanut butter sandwich. Yeah. The Department of Justice said
Speaker 1: that Toby was a Department of the Navy employee who
Speaker 1: had been assigned to the Naval Nuclear Propulsion I don't
Speaker 1: even know how to say this word. That's propulsion program.
Speaker 1: His work as a nuclear engine engineer allowed him to
Speaker 1: receive top secret security clearance through the U. S. Department
Speaker 1: of Defense, as well as Q clearance from the U. S.
Speaker 1: Department of Energy Energy, which gave him access to secret
Speaker 1: restricted data. Okay, but here's the part that really hits me.
Speaker 1: He doesn't even really do his research enough to know
Speaker 1: that he is sneaking it to the proper people and
Speaker 1: is giving it to the actual FBI. I I mean
Speaker 1: in my opinion, I'm looking forward to seeing the transcript
Speaker 1: of their messages to each other, because for me, there
Speaker 1: has to be something in there of him being like, Hey,
Speaker 1: just curious, do you have a peanut allergy? And you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just so curious to know that's how you know
Speaker 1: Jonathan isn't a little bit because he can eat pean utes.
Speaker 1: But Jonathan was obviously born before nineteen because Jonathan is
Speaker 1: an allergic to peanut. Yeah, and I'm also wondering what
Speaker 1: kind was that the crunchy was a creamy. I mean,
Speaker 1: it sounds like it sounds like a children's book. The
Speaker 1: fact that he was sneaking it out on peanut butter sandwiches,
Speaker 1: Like that's like Encyclopedia Brown or Ivy and Bean or picture. Yeah.
Speaker 1: As someone who was a vegetarian from the age of
Speaker 1: twelve to twenty and only had peanut butter and jelly
Speaker 1: sandwiches all of high school, every single day, I will
Speaker 1: tell you I did think I was better than everyone
Speaker 1: and everybody. I was a vegetarian when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: and then my mom never felt the need to tell
Speaker 1: me that hot dogs were I mean, I guess they're
Speaker 1: not really meat either. But I would still eat hot dogs.
Speaker 1: And she was like, at some point she's going to
Speaker 1: realize that this. Oh wow, all right, so well just
Speaker 1: really quickly, because I do love the idea of the
Speaker 1: pep in the peanut butter sandwich conversation. The fact that
Speaker 1: they went to West Virginia. First, let me just say
Speaker 1: there are so few Jews in West Virginia that in
Speaker 1: order to have a minion, which is ten or more
Speaker 1: Jewish Men in case of a funeral, they have to
Speaker 1: import them from other places. There are so few Jews
Speaker 1: in West Virginia. So I'll never go there. But why
Speaker 1: do you know that? Because I went to school in Virginia. Oh,
Speaker 1: and you were like, don't cross the border. Would never
Speaker 1: go to the never go to the west one. It's
Speaker 1: very scary, okay. But and that's how I know that
Speaker 1: I would never be involved in any sort of FBI situation,
Speaker 1: because if they go to West Virginia, it's just not
Speaker 1: worth it to me. Um. I also thought it was
Speaker 1: interesting they were paying him to crypto. They were paying
Speaker 1: him in minaro. I know, for anyone who doesn't know
Speaker 1: his scryptocurrency. Well, guys, I think we're gonna have to
Speaker 1: take a little break because we've got to brand jacket now.
Speaker 1: We do have to take a break, and when we
Speaker 1: come back, we'll bring Jeff the p I and we'll
Speaker 1: get some real details for you all, not just our opinions.
Speaker 1: We just cooked Dmitri so hard. That's exactly what I wanted.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say. Jeff is in the waiting room.
Speaker 1: Let's take a break. You just saw me raise my hand.
Speaker 1: We have him under our thumb. He has to raise
Speaker 1: his hands, right, Let's go to a break. Yeah, Hello everyone,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to real time crime. We have with
Speaker 1: us now someone I'm very excited to introduce Jeff McGrath,
Speaker 1: who is a private investigator. We're gonna speak with Jeff
Speaker 1: a little bit about some Gabby Potito updates, Robert Durst,
Speaker 1: peanut butter sandwich spies, and get his take on all
Speaker 1: of this. He is a d u I expert. He
Speaker 1: is super successful in accident investigation, reconstruction scenes. And Jeff
Speaker 1: is the retired police officer motorcycle traffic d u I,
Speaker 1: a officer and drug recognition expert. Jeff, thanks for being
Speaker 1: here with us today. Thanks for having me. You you
Speaker 1: guys make me happy. Okay, it's a break in my
Speaker 1: it's a break in my day, and I love it.
Speaker 1: So you're ready for us to grill you. I mean,
Speaker 1: go ahead. Can't be any you can't be any worse
Speaker 1: than any attorney that's Hitney. Nothing could be hotter than
Speaker 1: how I feel in this trench coat. Right, So okay,
Speaker 1: let's just start with something easy. Where's Brian Laundry? He's
Speaker 1: not in the continental United States that I'm pretty much
Speaker 1: sure of. And how do we know that, Jeff, Well,
Speaker 1: we don't know that for certain, but you know, the
Speaker 1: suspicion behind the camping trip with his parents, I think
Speaker 1: that was just to plan his getaway. How much money
Speaker 1: does it actually take to disappear? I can do it
Speaker 1: for twenty bucks? Yeah. Yeah. If you out of the country,
Speaker 1: if you're willing to live off the grid, and you
Speaker 1: can find some fisherman that said, you know, hey, can
Speaker 1: you just get me a hundred miles out to see
Speaker 1: you can find somewhere, especially if you're in Florida. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of areas that you could go where you
Speaker 1: leave the continental US in just a short time. And Jen,
Speaker 1: if you find a group on for ten dollars, will
Speaker 1: you match that price. Yes, absolutely, okay, thank you? Where
Speaker 1: you go? Group on? Yeah? Don't you group on your murder?
Speaker 1: Getting right right, right right? And if somebody already knows
Speaker 1: who you are and what you look like and all
Speaker 1: those things. How do you get a burner phone? Oh?
Speaker 1: Anybody can get a burn phone. You can pop into
Speaker 1: a circle K and get a burner phone. You can
Speaker 1: use an alias name. UM. You could have a prepaid
Speaker 1: debit card that doesn't track you, UM in advance and
Speaker 1: you could you could take care of that. You could
Speaker 1: have a burner phone, no issues. I deal with a
Speaker 1: lot of people with burner phones, and some of them
Speaker 1: I've found three and four phones. Wow. How you find
Speaker 1: people if they have burner phones? Um? Typically I don't
Speaker 1: find them through the phone because any any reverse phone
Speaker 1: search doesn't turn up results. That's how I know it's
Speaker 1: a burner. But then I look for activities and things
Speaker 1: that people usually are creatures of habit. Even though they
Speaker 1: try to break that, they will start to falter back
Speaker 1: towards something. Uh, and eventually you can catch them. And
Speaker 1: what would you say? The reasoning behind Brian's parents not
Speaker 1: speaking to Gabby's parents at all would be I don't
Speaker 1: think they have any desire in speaking to them. They
Speaker 1: haven't shown any concern that that Brian is even missing. Uh,
Speaker 1: and I don't think they want to fully cooperate because
Speaker 1: they can be charged. So in your opinion, you don't
Speaker 1: think it could potentially be because the FBI has told
Speaker 1: them it's better for them to stay quiet. No, I
Speaker 1: guarantee you an attorney that they have has told them
Speaker 1: it's better to stay quiet. They have the Atlantesome to talk. Well.
Speaker 1: Jeff's people reported that they saw him on the Appalachian Trail.
Speaker 1: Do you think that there's any chance that he's there?
Speaker 1: And if not, do you think that there are a
Speaker 1: lot of people on the Appalachian Trail who have committed
Speaker 1: crimes that are hiding. Oh? Probably have you ever been
Speaker 1: to the Appalachian Trail but for this reason, Um, it's
Speaker 1: a it's a long trail. But oh, I guarantee there's
Speaker 1: some people there with that have committed some crimes. Absolutely. Um,
Speaker 1: you don't know who your neighbor is sometimes, so yeah,
Speaker 1: you run into somebody who's living off the grid in
Speaker 1: the Appalachians would make me kind of wonder. I've taken
Speaker 1: my kids campaign just out here in the desert and
Speaker 1: seeing some really shady stuff. So I can imagine what
Speaker 1: the Appalachian Trail is if he was on the Appalachian Trail,
Speaker 1: which I know you don't think that he is. How
Speaker 1: long could you live off the grid without anything depends
Speaker 1: on his background. If he has any survival training. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, somebody with that type of training, wilderness survival,
Speaker 1: they could survive years out there. If they know how
Speaker 1: to get their own food and shelter and water, they
Speaker 1: can be fine. But I don't think he has that
Speaker 1: training that you know, you would expect to see somebody
Speaker 1: looking off the grid as a mountain man. I used
Speaker 1: to one state a guy who lived off the land
Speaker 1: and eviscerated animals so that he could feed himself and
Speaker 1: made his own clothing. And now I'm starting to wonder
Speaker 1: if I should call the FBI. You should probably let
Speaker 1: me know who he is so I can look back.
Speaker 1: He always said that if the apocalypse happened, I should
Speaker 1: go back to his house. But I feel like he's
Speaker 1: the last person I want to be around during an apocalypse.
Speaker 1: I think that's a standard pickup line, thank you? Is
Speaker 1: that on his tender app I can't it's that's his
Speaker 1: that's his tag. I cannot with that. Um. Okay, speaking
Speaker 1: of the media stuff, because you brought up that he's
Speaker 1: all over the media. Do you think for somebody like him,
Speaker 1: with his personality type, do you think this is like
Speaker 1: feeding his ego? Do you think he's sitting around watching it?
Speaker 1: Do you think that? Or do you think he's completely
Speaker 1: away from it all. I think he's a sociopath, is
Speaker 1: what I think. I think he's a he's an abuser, um,
Speaker 1: and I don't think he really thinks twice about it.
Speaker 1: He may be very ego centric and self centered, and
Speaker 1: it may be feeding his ego. I don't see that
Speaker 1: in what I've heard of him, but it wouldn't be
Speaker 1: uncommon for a sociopath to have those tendencies. Mhm. Can
Speaker 1: I ask a quick question back to his parents? This
Speaker 1: is this is where I'm sorry I didn't. I didn't wait.
Speaker 1: Leo Teddy may ask a question. You may ask a question.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. What I don't get in terms
Speaker 1: of his parents is, okay, so if there's if they're
Speaker 1: smart enough that they're covering all this up, right, But
Speaker 1: then then they're not smart enough to play along and
Speaker 1: make it seem like they really don't know like you do.
Speaker 1: They not trust their acting skills. Would you not talk
Speaker 1: to Gabby's family like? And if that's the case, if
Speaker 1: they're not good enough to act that way, then why
Speaker 1: haven't the police and the I've gotten something from them
Speaker 1: while questioning them. It's called lawyer um at Any cops
Speaker 1: will tell you that as soon as someone mentions attorney,
Speaker 1: you can no longer question them. It's just it's a
Speaker 1: that's their right. Uh, it would be. I tell every
Speaker 1: one of my clients shut up, don't talk to anybody,
Speaker 1: every one of them, because you will ultimately incriminate yourself.
Speaker 1: So that's what Lee and Teddy say to me. By
Speaker 1: the way, shut up, don't talk to anybody, you know,
Speaker 1: I say, shush up. I'm a mother, yeah, And every
Speaker 1: time every time my parents asked me why I don't
Speaker 1: have children yet, I'll just say, you have to speak
Speaker 1: to my lawyer work. Yeah, But okay, so start Jeff.
Speaker 1: We we obviously have ten million more questions, by the way,
Speaker 1: I can't I have so many because also I watched
Speaker 1: the sixteen minutes thing last night. I told them earlier,
Speaker 1: and I was listening to Gabby's mother, and she was
Speaker 1: saying when the cops arrested not that not arrest to them,
Speaker 1: when the cops pulled them over for the slapping, and
Speaker 1: they were when they were Yeah, and when that happened.
Speaker 1: Gabby's mom was saying that she saw her daughter and
Speaker 1: obviously it was a cry for help, you could see
Speaker 1: in her daughter's face. However, the cops that arrested them
Speaker 1: did not see that. Yeah, And they didn't arrest them.
Speaker 1: They just separated them. They just separated them. What did
Speaker 1: you see in that moment? Well, in in in my state,
Speaker 1: as a police officer, um, as a as a police officer,
Speaker 1: your hands are tied. If you see marks, and there's
Speaker 1: admission of physical contact, and you have witnesses that are
Speaker 1: not a part of the party saying that they saw
Speaker 1: the same thing. They both go to jail. That's in
Speaker 1: my state, and you both go to jail, she said,
Speaker 1: And I think this is either out of fear or
Speaker 1: protecting him. She said, no, no, no, I hit him first.
Speaker 1: That would automatically put her in handcuffs as well. But
Speaker 1: the officer said, I see a mark on your face,
Speaker 1: and these people saw him punch you, so he would
Speaker 1: also go on handcuffs until they see a judge and
Speaker 1: they can be released. Um, why that didn't happen there,
Speaker 1: I don't know what their loss in Utah are surrounding
Speaker 1: domestic violence, but in in Arizona, both parties go to
Speaker 1: jail in that situation. And I think she was either
Speaker 1: protecting him because she was either in love and and
Speaker 1: and going oh, he didn't mean it, or she was
Speaker 1: scared because the retaliation will result in what it did.
Speaker 1: And do you think this interview that the parents did
Speaker 1: can help an investigation or hurt it? I think an
Speaker 1: interview in general can do both. It depends if the
Speaker 1: attorneys there and in guiding the questions and they're very
Speaker 1: careful as to what they say. It can help the investigation.
Speaker 1: But there's times where they're going to be there's there's
Speaker 1: information they just do not want to release because it
Speaker 1: could it could hinder Um, it will h could hinder them,
Speaker 1: but the police themselves would take it into a different investigation.
Speaker 1: So I've got another question for you. Okay, what is
Speaker 1: the first if we could just back up a little,
Speaker 1: what does the first step you take when you're looking
Speaker 1: for a missing person? Do you ever see patterns. We
Speaker 1: look for patterns. The very first thing we do is
Speaker 1: we look for where did they go missing, Where was
Speaker 1: the last place they were seeing, Who was the last
Speaker 1: person to talk to them. Then we start working backwards
Speaker 1: from there. Okay, who talked to him before that? What
Speaker 1: did they do? Did you see any indications leading up
Speaker 1: to this? Then we look at bank accounts, um, credit
Speaker 1: card transactions. Um, there's there's all kinds of avenues we
Speaker 1: go that I would call first. It's it's like a
Speaker 1: as soon as you get a missing person's case, the
Speaker 1: first thing you do is about a thousand things. So
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to say the very first thing you do,
Speaker 1: you and you want to analyze their patterns. What did
Speaker 1: they do before and did it change recently? Um? Like
Speaker 1: I said, people are always creatures of habit. You have
Speaker 1: to work hard at not changing or head changing your routine.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we'd look for those things. And when people
Speaker 1: when you guys are getting tipped off, when people are
Speaker 1: sending in tips, how do you know which ones to
Speaker 1: take seriously? Well, that's a really difficult thing. You take
Speaker 1: every tip that comes in seriously. Everyone. And with the
Speaker 1: case I'm working right now, we've received everything from we
Speaker 1: know who's holding them, is that legs are broken being
Speaker 1: held in the basement, um, you know, and we have
Speaker 1: to take it all seriously. Sometimes people just are sick
Speaker 1: and twisted and they just want to they want to
Speaker 1: speak and put their two cents in um. Sometimes people
Speaker 1: want to do it anonymously. I get a lot of
Speaker 1: burner phones that are sending texts that just are absolutely horrific,
Speaker 1: and the father's reading them. Uh. But you you you
Speaker 1: vet each and every tip that comes in by who's
Speaker 1: given the tip, where was it seem, when was it
Speaker 1: seem or ported? And then you do have to do
Speaker 1: some investigation on those tips. So I could say, you know,
Speaker 1: out of ten tips, I'm probably going to be doing
Speaker 1: some legwork on eight of them. And do you think
Speaker 1: that YouTube and TikTok and all of these you know,
Speaker 1: trending things that have been happening around all of these
Speaker 1: high profile cases, do you think that it's helpful or hurtful?
Speaker 1: I think it's hurtful. I think it's very hurtful. You
Speaker 1: get all these amateur investigators that want to poke into it,
Speaker 1: and and and and they start calling the investigators saying,
Speaker 1: oh I found this and hey, I found that, and
Speaker 1: oh I talked to this person. This is something I'm
Speaker 1: dealing with right now, and I'm going you know what,
Speaker 1: these are persons of interest for me. There's a reason
Speaker 1: we have not interviewed them yet. It's strategic. And now
Speaker 1: you jump in and start talking because you want to
Speaker 1: be an investigator, you're hurting my case. Um, the only
Speaker 1: thing with publicity on that that helps is getting the
Speaker 1: face out there. So if anybody's seen the person and
Speaker 1: and basically some background information, that's what helps. The actual
Speaker 1: independent amateur investigators that there's thousands out there and psychics
Speaker 1: I should say, Um, they don't help. They don't help
Speaker 1: at all. As a matter of fact, they slowly What
Speaker 1: about the case of the fact that the YouTube video
Speaker 1: that was released from Red White and Bethew in the
Speaker 1: Van Life Couple family, the fact that that led them
Speaker 1: to find Gabby's body pretty directly, would you say that
Speaker 1: there are sometimes when it's helpful and most of the
Speaker 1: time it's hurtful. Oh yeah, yeah. I can't make the
Speaker 1: blanket statement that that every time some some YouTuber or
Speaker 1: or TikTok says something that it hurts, I can't. I
Speaker 1: can't say that. I can say a lot of times
Speaker 1: it does because they're they're they're putting out false information
Speaker 1: or information they don't they just don't know, uh. And
Speaker 1: if they don't know the whole story, they're gonna fill
Speaker 1: in the blanks with their with their own ideas. Also,
Speaker 1: this is a question I've always wanted to know the
Speaker 1: answer to, and it doesn't it's not quite relevant to
Speaker 1: this case. But why does so many people come forward
Speaker 1: saying that they murdered the person in question if they're
Speaker 1: not actually the murderer. Wow, I'll never understand that. I
Speaker 1: don't have a psychology degree and I don't look me neither. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and people do that. It will blow your mind how
Speaker 1: many times people want to come forward to take take
Speaker 1: the um doesn't take the blame. It doesn't make sense
Speaker 1: to me either, It really doesn't. And we have to
Speaker 1: work around that, and that's why we withhold information like
Speaker 1: in in the situation where Gabby was strangled, that didn't
Speaker 1: come out till later because they wanted to confirm that
Speaker 1: tells me there's other injuries to her, so it was
Speaker 1: probably a pretty bloody scene. Plus she wasn't found ntil
Speaker 1: about three weeks after for her death, So there's decomposity
Speaker 1: decomposition there, but um as far as withholding like how
Speaker 1: somebody died or what instrument was used, because when all
Speaker 1: these people say, hey, I did it, I did it
Speaker 1: last Tuesday at two pm, Okay, well what did you
Speaker 1: use to do this? When we get them into an
Speaker 1: interrogation and if they can't identify the proper weapon, you
Speaker 1: know they were bludgeoned with the trophy found on a shelf,
Speaker 1: We're not going to release that information. We're gonna say
Speaker 1: that was blunt force trauma. That well, speaking of confessions,
Speaker 1: can we also kind of bring up Robert a little
Speaker 1: bit here? Um? Wait, Teddy one, can I ask one
Speaker 1: final question about Gabby Petito because I'm I'm just dying
Speaker 1: to know your take on this, Jeff, I'm sorry, just
Speaker 1: real fast. So we know the cause of death now
Speaker 1: was homicide and the autopsy said that it was by strangulation,
Speaker 1: and obviously signs are pointing to Brian Laundry and we're
Speaker 1: waiting to hear about if there are any DNA samples.
Speaker 1: But I'm very curious your thoughts about that. But I'm
Speaker 1: more so curious to know why you think they said
Speaker 1: that Brian is not connected to the deaths of the
Speaker 1: two women who were also found murdered, but they won't
Speaker 1: tell us why they know that, because there's patterns you
Speaker 1: look for. If somebody is killing people in one area
Speaker 1: and they killed three people, you're gonna see some common, uh,
Speaker 1: common themes in there, some some very common things. If
Speaker 1: it's strangulation by Gabby and then one person shot and
Speaker 1: then another person stabbed, uh, it could be the same person.
Speaker 1: But you've got to look for different commonalities in these
Speaker 1: in these things, and they're not seeing it. Um, they're
Speaker 1: just not seeing it at all. And and I understand why.
Speaker 1: I think it's coincidental that this was close to two
Speaker 1: and timing and two together, but it's they're obviously seeing
Speaker 1: something that disconnects them. So this does tie into the
Speaker 1: Robert Durst case and the fact that do you think
Speaker 1: that serial killers often killed their subjects in the same way? No,
Speaker 1: I don't. As in the case of Robert Durst, Um,
Speaker 1: well we don't know how it's how his wife was
Speaker 1: killed because she hasn't been found. But you know he
Speaker 1: in two thousand one when he shot somebody in self
Speaker 1: defense and was acquitted of that and then the one
Speaker 1: he was convicted of where execution style, shouting back the head,
Speaker 1: those are common things and that's that's his go to.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at him, he's not a
Speaker 1: very strong man. It takes it takes some some strength
Speaker 1: to tussle with somebody man or a woman and pulled
Speaker 1: him down and strangle somebody. That takes That takes some
Speaker 1: force and it takes some time. Shooting is quick. Stabbing
Speaker 1: is very personal. Um strangulation is very personal. Shooting is
Speaker 1: just I just this is the easiest way. Um. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, so, do you think that's why
Speaker 1: they never found the head to Morris Black's body after
Speaker 1: it was dismembered, because it would have shown evidence that
Speaker 1: he was also possibly shot execution style. I do believe that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was something I don't and I think it's just
Speaker 1: again coincidental that they didn't find the head. He threw
Speaker 1: the you know, chopped the body up through this. See
Speaker 1: but uh, the head could have been picked apart by
Speaker 1: sea life and they were able to get other stuff.
Speaker 1: How do you go with self how do you go
Speaker 1: with self defense when your reaction after doing that was
Speaker 1: to chop them up, put them in bags and throw
Speaker 1: them in the water. You know, I was talking to
Speaker 1: one of my detective partners about this, and I don't
Speaker 1: know that he had. He had to have an amazing
Speaker 1: attorney and a dumb jury. I'm just saying, I'm putting
Speaker 1: it out there because that is it shows that there's
Speaker 1: there's some problems with that man, and and the self
Speaker 1: defense thing starts to go away when you cut up bodies.
Speaker 1: So I don't know how not just not just that,
Speaker 1: but how when you said on camera on tape there
Speaker 1: it is you're caught, What the hell did I do?
Speaker 1: How was that not enough to convict? Well, that's a
Speaker 1: that helped in their prosecution, but they just needed more.
Speaker 1: There was something they needed that was more. I'm not
Speaker 1: familiar with exactly what went down on the trial of
Speaker 1: what was presented as evidence. And you've got to remember
Speaker 1: us as people, we get all this information fed to
Speaker 1: us through through social media, through news, through through podcasts,
Speaker 1: through everything we get, we get inundated with information and crimes.
Speaker 1: Now the jury is not here, and all the information
Speaker 1: we hear there is arguments from prosecution and defense attorneys
Speaker 1: constantly on what they're going to let in and what
Speaker 1: they won't let in, so the juries don't hear everything.
Speaker 1: We're here, where we're going? How did they not see
Speaker 1: what we see because they didn't have all the stuff
Speaker 1: put in front of them. Do you think that? How
Speaker 1: often are the persons of interest involved in letters and
Speaker 1: confessions such as such as Robert Durst? How often? Yeah? Like, well,
Speaker 1: you know how he is is a part of writing
Speaker 1: the confessions and he yeah, well O J did it too.
Speaker 1: Uh so you know, I mean, it's it's I think
Speaker 1: what I think again not having a psychology degree, but
Speaker 1: what I think is is people have something inside of
Speaker 1: them that they want to get this out. They want
Speaker 1: to get the information out. Now, if they're a sociopath
Speaker 1: with those ecocentric qualities, they're gonna want to brag about
Speaker 1: if they have some uh you know, empathy or or
Speaker 1: remorse for what happened, they might do it because it's there.
Speaker 1: It's cleansing there. Um that that's the only way I
Speaker 1: can think of doing that. Some people, some people want
Speaker 1: to taunt police too. You got to remember that that
Speaker 1: people will do things because it's a game. It's a
Speaker 1: captain mouse game, and they want to stay ahead. But
Speaker 1: they want to tip them off, but not really um
Speaker 1: that happened back in the the btcculents where they just
Speaker 1: taunting the police with the UM information and letters and
Speaker 1: all that. So, yeah, it's people do it. Do you
Speaker 1: think they want to be caught? Do you think they
Speaker 1: want to push the limit to see how far they
Speaker 1: can go, but that they ultimately do want to be
Speaker 1: caught or not caught. I think they ultimately don't want
Speaker 1: to be caught, but I think they want to push
Speaker 1: the limit. They want to push the envelope. They want
Speaker 1: the attention, right, it's exciting and they're getting attention, yes,
Speaker 1: and adrenaline rush absolutely, And these people that are killing
Speaker 1: more than one person typically they get some type of
Speaker 1: a rush off them. That's the reason they're doing And
Speaker 1: I mean this kind of ties into all three of
Speaker 1: the cases that we talked about takes. We also talked
Speaker 1: about the peanut butter sandwich spies. Do you think that
Speaker 1: TVs and TV and media and all of this helps
Speaker 1: criminals become better criminals? No? I don't because I think
Speaker 1: TV and and stuff they got it wrong. You know
Speaker 1: they they it's you know, they're trying to entertain you.
Speaker 1: So if you were to follow just a case without
Speaker 1: a TV show like what they're talking ABO. Let's say,
Speaker 1: well in order for example, Uh, if you would actually
Speaker 1: see really how the case went down, you fall asleep
Speaker 1: halfway through because there's it's really not that exciting, so
Speaker 1: they got to add stuff. So no, do I think
Speaker 1: it helps people be better criminals. I think it helps
Speaker 1: law enforcement because they're gonna do stupid things because they
Speaker 1: saw it on TV and it's going to get off
Speaker 1: right or just me, I do stupid things because I
Speaker 1: saw it on TV. So Jeff, I I know that
Speaker 1: Robert Durst broke his parole and went back to Galveston,
Speaker 1: Texas to the scene of the crime, and that often
Speaker 1: people do go back to the scene of the crime.
Speaker 1: Why that is uh that that's something that's been done
Speaker 1: in FBI profiling for many many years. Uh, we as
Speaker 1: as as police officers and when I was a police
Speaker 1: officer and detective. Anytime there was a crime scene, what
Speaker 1: you want to do is you want to capture on
Speaker 1: video or pictures of the crowd standing around, because a
Speaker 1: lot of times your suspect is in that crowd. In
Speaker 1: the case I'm working right now, we have hundreds of
Speaker 1: volunteers come out on weekends to search the desert. So,
Speaker 1: but we make them sign in through a through a website,
Speaker 1: so I have everybody's information, their vehicle, that all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So I'm always going through and I start running backgrounds
Speaker 1: on people. So it is really common, really really common
Speaker 1: for people to return to the scene of the crime,
Speaker 1: the criminal, the suspects. That's that's just been going on. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's they want to see what they did, and sometimes
Speaker 1: they want to they want to be involved in the
Speaker 1: investigation because they want to see where it's going if
Speaker 1: they're gonna get caught, or to hide evidence that they
Speaker 1: need to someone's turned volunteer and other than lawyers, what
Speaker 1: other resources are available to a serial killer or anybody
Speaker 1: that's involved in crime that has has a lot of
Speaker 1: money versus somebody that doesn't, you mean like to get
Speaker 1: them off. Well, shoot money. There's a lot of celebrities
Speaker 1: that have committed some crimes that, um, we've never heard
Speaker 1: because money has been able to give their way through it.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying the system is corrupt, saying that some
Speaker 1: of the places can be bought. Uh, I haven't seen
Speaker 1: it in my jurisdiction. But but usually the better the
Speaker 1: attorney to fight against a defense lawyer or a public
Speaker 1: defender or something like that. The better the prosecutor. I've
Speaker 1: seen both. I've seen defense attorneys that are that that
Speaker 1: people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for and they
Speaker 1: go up against the prosecutor. They make prosecutor look bad
Speaker 1: and they usually will win the case because of how
Speaker 1: they presented in the case. So other than lawyers, it's
Speaker 1: just it could be just resources to to help them
Speaker 1: get what they need, what the what that lawyer needs
Speaker 1: to do things. Because that lawyer is gonna hire investigating.
Speaker 1: The investigator is going to go out, and it depends
Speaker 1: on if he's an investigator that wants to do good
Speaker 1: or wants to do bad. He can go out. He
Speaker 1: can screw up a crimacyne he can screw up the
Speaker 1: investor gian he can he can take police off of it,
Speaker 1: or he can actually work through it and be possible.
Speaker 1: A lot to think about. It's a lot to think about.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today. Well, you
Speaker 1: promise you'll come back with us. I promise I will.
Speaker 1: I want to let's do this, okay, Jeff, I'll text
Speaker 1: you from my burner phone when we need you do it,
Speaker 1: do it when I when I get that, oh there
Speaker 1: is We need you all the time. Never leave us, no,
Speaker 1: please please have me back. I'm excited for this. We
Speaker 1: will and we know you'll return to the scene of
Speaker 1: the crime. Jeff. I always do, always do. I'm always
Speaker 1: one step ahead though. Terrifying and amazing. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining us today, Jeff. We love you very much.
Speaker 1: Thank you, guys, thank you for your insight. Bye. I'll
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. We'll see you again. Bye. Thank you, Jeff.
Speaker 1: And I think it's time to go to break a right, guys,
Speaker 1: I think we can all use a break. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll be back in just a few moments. Well, guys,
Speaker 1: that was so fun with Jeff. Please keep tuning in,
Speaker 1: keep sending us any questions or theories that you have. Leah, Okay,
Speaker 1: just start asking everybody what their thoughts are, because you
Speaker 1: and I are going to go back and forth and
Speaker 1: we don't need Dmitri's opinion on where he thinks Cathy is.
Speaker 1: I've been sending it already, Dmitri. No one has asked
Speaker 1: you to speak, but if you if you'd like to
Speaker 1: reach out to us on Instagram. Also our instagram is
Speaker 1: Real Time Crime Pod and if you go to either
Speaker 1: me or Teddy's instagrams, we both have it linked in
Speaker 1: our bios. Tell us what your theories are on where
Speaker 1: Brian Laundry is d M. We will discuss this. Do
Speaker 1: you think Robert Durst committed all three murders? Where do
Speaker 1: you think Kathy Durst is Teddy? Do you have any
Speaker 1: bone chilling questions? Yeah? I mean do you have a
Speaker 1: peanut allergy? How would you slip spy secrets? Would it
Speaker 1: be in a sneaker? In a gum wrapper? Would it be?
Speaker 1: Would it be? I mean, here's the thing, I don't
Speaker 1: even know how to get something out of my computer
Speaker 1: to slip it to somebody. I need all of the
Speaker 1: tips and send us all of the MFL. I would
Speaker 1: be the worst spy because I have this habit of
Speaker 1: forgetting where I put everything. I lose literally everything. I
Speaker 1: lost my dignity years ago. Haven't been able to find
Speaker 1: it since, but I did notice that. But either way, guys,
Speaker 1: send us all the information, send us all of your thoughts, questions,
Speaker 1: any crimes you want us to investigate. Also, please send
Speaker 1: us your thoughts because if not, we'll never stop talking
Speaker 1: m M. But also if one wants to come over
Speaker 1: to my apartment and find where I put that three
Speaker 1: thousand dollars cash, I will give it all to you.
Speaker 1: I just don't know where I put it. You're inviting
Speaker 1: people to your home on a crime podcast. Not a
Speaker 1: good idea. Okay, let me let me go back in time. Um,
Speaker 1: if I could do one redo on the whole podcast,
Speaker 1: it would be no one come to my house. Um,
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you guys next week. Talk to you
Speaker 1: all soon at Real Time Crime Pod. At Real Time
Speaker 1: Crime Pod, I've been Leo Lamar and Teddy Mellencamp and
Speaker 1: sometimes Dmitri and sometimes Dmitri when I'm allowed. Yeah, his
Speaker 1: first name actually is sometimes and his last name Dmitri. Sorry,
Speaker 1: just felt like all right, I hate myself. Bye bye.
Speaker 1: Robert would say bye bye bye bye, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Real to Grod, I mean, is it actually a real
Speaker 1: time crime or solving anything or is that just the
Speaker 1: thing we say. It's a thing we say, got it? Okay?
Speaker 1: See an act week for more real time crime only
Speaker 1: on I Heart Radio.