WEBVTT - Robert Durst and Secrets in a Peanut Butter Sandwich 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:14.000 Hi, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Real 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.319 Time Crime. I'm one of your hosts, Lea Lamar, and 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:22.520 I've got with me Teddy Mellencamp. Hi, Hi, Teddy Teddy. 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:24.159 I think the real crime is how are you so 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.520 naturally beautiful? I think the real crime is that you 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.000 have a background now that shows you as like a 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:33.599 real detective, and I still have my original background. I 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.080 want to just let you know that I'm sweating through 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:38.960 my coat and I thought it would be fun, but 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.120 it's it's not fun. It doesn't feel fun. It feels 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:44.559 very hot and not in the sexy fun way. But 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.360 it's making your face look very glowy. That's it's giving 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:53.000 you good. It's giving you a good glow, a natural glow. Dmitri, 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:56.280 did we hear you laugh? Did we say you could? 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:01.440 Are you allowed to speak on this podcast? Producers? Dmitri? Hello, 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.039 Dmitri Hello. Here's the thing I said. I would speak 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:06.760 very minimally, but I'm not allowed to mute. And if 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:08.600 you guys are gonna sit there like saying stuff like that, 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:10.759 I'm gonna laugh. I'll muffle it as much as I can, 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:13.840 but this is gonna happen, I'm sorry. We were talking 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:16.000 about the beautiful glow I have on my face for 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:19.319 my trench coat. Thank you. I thought it was funny 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.040 that you got this trench coat to look you know, inspectory, 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.600 and now you're super uncomfortable and I don't know, I 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:26.600 gotta kick out of that. Yeah, this isn't quite the 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.319 right fit for me. You know, I thought crime, but 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:32.360 make it fashion. But Zara doesn't know how to do crime. 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.400 Well what we do, which is why we need to 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:38.800 get to business, guys. And I have to start by 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.600 saying thank you to one of our listeners who sent 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.759 me a d M about the Gabby Potito case, which 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:47.840 of course there's been some updates, but also not any 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.520 more information on find finding Brian. But something we didn't 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.560 think about. Remember the last text that she was sending 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:59.040 about stand where where I was saying maybe Brian was 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.360 sending the stand text. Somebody named Justine sent me a 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:06.240 d M and said, maybe it wasn't about someone named Stan. 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:13.720 Maybe stand meant text, uh send in send the authorities. 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:20.880 Now I just got the chills down my spine. Is 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.639 that a known entity? I don't know. I just got 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.440 I was just going through my damns when I was, 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:28.480 because you guys were a couple of minutes later just 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:34.680 saying and I wasn't late. I don't know. I clocked 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.840 in at so I wouldn't. He didn't click in until 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:44.760 even thirty one, So whoever, maybe three? But Dmitri, you 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:48.200 want Teddy to think I'm late? Guys, that was totally 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:51.200 my fault. You know, I couldn't. Don't thank you. Thank 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:54.079 you for taking the blame on this, Dmitri. But Teddy, Okay, 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:58.919 So is stand actually is this something that is common practice? 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:04.320 Because I don't know, it seems that's I like this theory. 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:08.240 I mean, I don't like it, but it's an interesting theory. However, 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:09.720 if she was really in help, don't you think she 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.160 would just be more direct about it? I mean, may 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.040 she maybe she was scared he would look at her phone? 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:19.079 I mean, didn't he end up with her phone? That's interesting. 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.960 That's that's such a that's such a detailed thing. Like 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.240 unless somebody knew this is a code and knew what Like, 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:27.800 there's no way someone's going to see that and be 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:30.680 like oh s t a n oh, that's probably send 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:32.959 the authorities now, Like, unless they had a code set 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.720 up to know about. I think that's I appreciate the 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:37.960 input from from Justine, but that seems a little far 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:42.080 faster me. It's very creative and insightful and possibly true. However, 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.600 it is also odd that her grandfather's name is Stan. 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.960 Very true, but I did have to say because it's 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.280 something that we did miss. It is a coincidence, and 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:55.520 we did miss it. But I also just want to 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.240 just for the listeners, go back for three seconds and 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.960 talk about the last podcast that we had. During the 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.320 taping of our podcast, we got the news of her 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.480 autopsy and the results of her death, which we found 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:11.400 out with strangulation and throttling. But they haven't yet identified 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.480 any additional information. Well, they might have, but they didn't 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.400 clue us into that, for example, whether or not she 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.040 was under the ground or above the ground, if there 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.840 was any DNA evidence on her body. So we don't 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.120 have any of that information just yet. But we have 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.200 been clued into the cause of death. We already knew 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.000 it was homicide, but we didn't have that additional information. 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:35.960 So I just wanted to use that as a springboard 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.680 to move forward with the Gabby Petito case and new 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:44.120 information that we have and later on in the episode, 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:48.440 we are going to actually have on a private detective 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.600 who is going to answer so many questions that I 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.880 think will help us decipher some of the things that 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:01.080 we are so you know, lost on as just individuals 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.440 trying to decipher the case, like all of the other 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:08.000 slutes out there, wanting to understand what Brian is doing. 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.720 Like something that I was thinking about. I was watching 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:16.080 the sixty Minutes Australia that um Gabby's parents and stepfather 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:24.960 Diad was do innocent people run ever? And I think 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:31.680 we heard innocent people don't run? Right. It's interesting because 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.800 I don't want to parlay this away from this case 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:36.320 because we have so much to talk about, and I 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.240 know with our private investigator, Jeff McGrath, we will go 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:43.359 in depth into detail. But this is also tying into 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:48.200 Robert Durst, who's now back in the media, because innocent 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:51.440 people don't run is a very interesting concept because we 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:55.880 both know that he ran and was claiming his innocence, 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.040 but of course he has now been convicted of murder 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.279 of his best friends in Berman and life in jail 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:06.960 without parole. However, he's now on a ventilator in the 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:10.680 hospital with COVID nineteen. I want to just tell you 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:16.159 right now, I'm holding my tongue and don't you dare 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.080 I mean here, you're here, this is that's what this 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:25.479 is for. I mean, you know, I just I have 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.039 so many thoughts about it. Am I allowed to completely 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.680 derail from Gabby Petito at the moment and swing over 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:35.159 to Robert Durst or well? I mean I think first off, 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.800 he wasn't wearing his mask correctly in court. Well, he 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.520 kept taking it off and putting it back on, apparently, 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.680 And I think it's probably because he was having trouble breathing. 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:48.120 And I think a lot of the people closest to 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.599 him have been taking COVID tests making sure that they're negative, 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.000 and canceled their personal travel plans as well. From what 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.520 I've read on the news. Did I just say news 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:05.600 on the new was oh my in nineteen forties detective Um? 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:09.960 But yeah, thank you. I'm honestly I am. I am 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:11.960 boiling in here. This was a poor choice. I just 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.080 want to let everyone know that I didn't make a 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.040 mistake this morning. I mean, can you not to stop 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:18.720 in derail here? But can you just take it off? 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:20.640 That's not like a Dickie underneath right, like, that's a 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:26.080 did you just ask me to take my trench cod? Now? 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:30.560 Now we're getting all kinds hr hr. I just meant 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.000 if it meant you would be more comfortable. Oh my god, 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:38.840 this is getting work ahead here. Can we cut this out? No? 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:43.600 Keep it in. It's hilarious but also okay, also ill, 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:45.520 I think it's important for me to make note of 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.520 the fact that there is a lot of comedy in tragedy, 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:51.640 and there's a time and a place for comedy. I'm 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.680 a comedian and we all know that, and so sometimes 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.200 the way that I deal with uncomfortable information is to 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.680 make jokes about it. But there's nothing funny about murder, 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.680 and I don't think that it works for me to 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.480 make jokes about that. And I'm a human being, um, 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.600 and I feel for all the people that have passed. 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:12.840 But I'd like to just make a note of the 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:17.640 fact that the things and elements surrounding cases. I like 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.640 to add moments of levity for my heart and my 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.200 brain because that's how I process pain and trauma. And 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:27.720 if you ever watch my stand up, you will also 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.880 see that it's basically me just punching down on myself, 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:35.160 so I just I just make fun of myself mercilessly. 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:39.040 And oh boy, if you've ever dated me, I'm so sorry. 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:42.880 But that's a warning to all the men out there. Now. 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.480 I'd like to go back into quickly talking about Robert 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.440 Durst again, so you also don't want to date him 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:53.239 because he also, I mean, he did murder his millionaire 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:59.920 I know, well, allegedly he he has not been convicted 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.600 of murdering his ex wife yet she is missing and 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:07.560 she has never been found. He was convicted recently of 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:13.160 murdering Susan Berman, his best friend, and allegedly because she 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:18.520 was going to meet with the press over details of that, 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.600 she may or may not have known what happened to 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:25.719 his ex wife. And then she mysteriously went, um, no, 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:27.800 she didn't go missing. She was just flat up murdered. 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.640 And she was she was shot execution style in the 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.880 back of the head, and there were no signs of 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:39.280 forced entry, which means that it was a friend or 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:42.520 someone she knew that she welcomed into her home and 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.600 then she was shot execution style on the back of 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:49.520 the head. And so Teddy, I know you watched Jinks, 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.679 of course, and I and what they are implying on 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:57.319 the show on the documentary was she was also having 0:09:57.400 --> 0:09:59.880 Susan Burman was also having money trouble and it was 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:06.439 something that was be above her too potentially or allegedly 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:12.000 blackmail someone by saying, if you don't pay me, I 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:18.040 am going to come forward with this information. So in 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:23.040 the documentary they had said that could potentially had been 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.880 the cause of why this ended up happening. It's also 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:32.640 interesting because Robert gave her I think over a hundred 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:37.200 thousand dollars, especially close to the last few months of 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.800 her life, and I know that he was going to 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.720 visit her for the holidays, which she apparently was super 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:48.599 excited about. And the documentary gave me chills for a 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.200 number of reasons. Obviously for anyone who's watched all the 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:55.000 way to the end. Uh no spoilers, but to spoil 0:10:55.800 --> 0:11:00.439 he says, I killed them all when his mike still 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.080 hot and he's in the bathroom also listening to the 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:07.280 man nearly vomit and p and talk about his burping 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:11.120 while he's realizing he got got from his handwriting and 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.520 the block letters and the misspelling of the word Beverly 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.800 on the letters. I mean, it was a little much 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:18.959 for me, to be honest. I was like, we're too 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:21.000 close and personal with this man. Couldn't they have edited 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.720 out the farting and the burping? No, And I mean 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.640 it for anyone that doesn't know what when the mike's hot, 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.320 the mike the mike hot doesn't mean it's like warm 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:37.800 on you, the mike hot mean yeah. Like I didn't 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.600 know about the mike hot until I personally was on 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.880 a reality television show, and like I thought, if there 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.840 wasn't a camera like facing me at the moment that 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.680 I was, I was done. I was like, in the 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.000 in the clear. No, if there is a mike pack 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:55.600 on you, you are. Anything you say can and will 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.360 be held against you. And it's what's so ironic is 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.320 that the comedy club that I created on a house 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.720 is called hot on the mic. And it's two fold. 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.160 It's a double entendre because everyone who does called me 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:12.240 there is sexy, okay, but then also he hates he 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.240 can't he can't even look at me. And then the 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:19.440 other reason is because comedians there are doing crowd work 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.880 left and right, and you're just going there's no way 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.040 to just turn your mic off. And stop talking. Anything 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.800 that you say could be recorded at any time, and 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:33.800 usually everything is hilarious, So, you know, I think that 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:38.319 that's really interesting. Obviously what Robert or says is not hilarious, 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.600 but I think it's interesting that there was some foreshadowing 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.800 before that final moment where he's they take a break 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:48.839 during the interview. Do you remember this, Teddy? They take 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.160 a break and he starts talking and and saying out 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.800 loud to himself when he thinks that the mic is 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:56.960 off because he's not. He doesn't realize that that you 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.760 actually have to turn the mic pack off manually basically, 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:02.839 and he just starts talking to himself. He's like, intentionally, 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.680 did I intentionally lie? No, no, one didn't. You didn't 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.080 intentionally lie. You could leave things out. And his lawyer 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:09.880 comes over to him and it's like, your mike is hot. 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.679 We we just heard everything you said. Oh yeah, because 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.400 he you you know, you can tell that he's actually 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.760 trying to prep himself on what he's going to say 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.840 in the next interview piece like you do that in 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.240 any interview if you're like about to join an interview. 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.800 The problem is his mike was on, he's being recorded 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.320 and he's doing it about murder. The thing is that 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:35.960 it's very clear he's hyper intelligent. He's an extremely smart man. 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:41.200 Obviously he has gotten away allegedly with multiple murders until recently. 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:48.000 And I mean he's very again also, I mean, if 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.400 you've got an endless pot of money, there's some money 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.800 at the problem, make it go away. He had, you know, 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:58.680 a hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of um fees 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.880 that he sent towards lawyers, originally just to get the 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:03.760 two best lawyers on the case to help him get 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.560 out of the Morris Black murder. I mean, I think 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:08.600 it was more than I was a hundred and fifty 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:13.240 thousand or well was his bail. And then but also 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:17.439 he won because his current was either fiance or wife. 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:22.440 I'm not and I actually love her. She can I 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:29.960 just say that she's your sassy New Yorker. Great. I 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:34.200 was like, is that me in twenty years from now? Well, 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.800 now you be married to a serial killer. But she 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:42.640 she was just so straightforward. She was you can tell 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:47.960 she's very concerned about the money. She's very concerned. She 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.920 is really rapped. She's upset that he wasn't a part 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.800 of the business. She doesn't even care about the murder situation. 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.400 She's like, anyways, I'm upset that you weren't a part 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.800 of the business. That your brothers pu you out. Like 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.760 She's like, this is why we need the top lawyers, 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.560 because we need your hand more in the money. Well. 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.360 She also she also told him that she would divorce 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.200 him if he didn't get rid of his first lawyer 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.360 because the first lawyer wanted him to plead insanity and 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.840 if you played insanity, then they would get in control 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:20.960 of all of the money, and that she wouldn't get 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.640 any of the money. Yeah, she she had a you know, 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.760 she saw dollar signs all of the time. And all 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:34.800 I'm saying is smart woman. But he had very Oh yeah, no, 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.040 you're right. How do how do you could write a 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.920 book how to marry a serial killer? But an alleged 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:48.040 serial killer? But his patience level is not hot because 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.600 even when he was talking about his first wife, Kathy, 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:53.520 and he was talking about her mother and he was 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.280 talking I mean, granted, we all have mother in laws, 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.240 they could be a little bit tricky, but he was 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:01.760 like this talking about how Kathy would get bummed or 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:03.760 the mom would get bummed. Because he couldn't talk to her, 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.080 and he was like, she would read these magazines, and 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.320 then he would start blinking away, and then he'd be like, 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:10.960 and I don't care, you know, I couldn't be bothered. 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:12.960 I don't want to talk about her magazines. And you're 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.360 just sitting there and you're like, you couldn't give her 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:20.480 two minutes. You couldn't give two minutes of time. It's 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.680 interesting because I think that the documentary at first kind 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.960 of humanizes him a little bit, and you can see 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.240 the way, in my opinion, the interviewer starts to build 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.840 this rapport with him, which by the end of the 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.520 series you can see that he also is kind of 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:42.160 bummed that he finally realizes that he is a murderer. 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.360 And I think he truly wanted to believe that it 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:50.400 wasn't so, and that he was kind of painted um incorrectly. 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:55.320 But it's really hard every time I listened to any 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.280 of the conversations he has, it's really hard to see 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.040 a serial killer as someone who is every conversation with 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:05.720 the words bye bye. And I don't know how that's 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:10.320 possible to make him look innocent or nice or kind, 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:15.280 But the way that he carries himself, and the way 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:21.520 that he made an entire jury laugh during his trial 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.680 against the murder of Morris Black. Lets you know that 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.480 it probably was difficult for him to be nailed down 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.119 as a murderer because there's something about him that is 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:38.680 so charming and it's probably the reason why he survived 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.879 as long without getting taken down. But I think also 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:46.199 something I want to ask um, I want to ask 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:50.080 Jeff about is his mother's suicide and what that plays 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:54.480 into what you turn into, Like was are you born 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.520 this way or is this something that after seeing such 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:06.360 a traumatic event that it you become teddy? Another great 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:11.960 point you brought up. You're still good with these details, Okay. 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.919 So something that I found interesting was that him and 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.600 Susan Berman bonded immediately because they both had parents died 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.840 at an early age, and Susan's dad was in the mob, 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.639 and you know, she was a self proclaimed mafia princess, 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.720 and so you know, they actually originally thought that her 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.920 death was by mob because the execution style hit is 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:38.560 very mafia like, right, Um, until you know they realized 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:44.320 it was Robert. But I think that in this case, 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:49.080 the fact that both of them had parents died from 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:54.120 an early age, and that Robert witnessed his mother's suicide. 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:59.560 There's an impact that it has on young children where 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:08.280 it creates personality disorders, and whether it's borderline personality, narcissist, 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:16.879 narcissistic personality, psychopathy, socio path tendencies, there are different ways 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:21.119 in which this starts to manifest in young children, and 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:25.199 so a lot of it's almost as if when you 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:30.880 when you read about narcissism that children who have narcissistic 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:35.080 traits are usually because they were either ill parented as 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.440 children or had a lack of a parent growing up, 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:44.680 and it's childhood abuses essentially also and and blocking out 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:48.760 certain memories. But also not only did she commit suicide, 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.360 he also had to live a lie because it came 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:57.040 forward like they announced it as that she fell. Yeah, 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:00.200 so he's now covering up as a child. Not only 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:02.600 are you forced to live that you saw your mother 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.680 commit suicide, you now are living a live for your 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:12.000 for your entire family that that's not what happened. And historically, 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.439 the sickness is in the secrets. And I think it 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:22.000 feels like he spent his entire lifetime just not trying 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:26.919 to get justice for it in a way, because I 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:32.000 think that for him, he felt probably so slighted and 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:36.760 was probably never felt seen or heard, and was denied 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:41.280 the experience of grief and trauma. And so I mean, 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:43.560 not deny the experience of trauma, just denied the experience 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:47.000 of grief. And so I don't know if he lacked 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:51.240 empathy growing up because he didn't know how to grieve 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:54.240 or wasn't allowed to grieve. I mean, also, God, sorry, 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:58.399 I'm a rambles city today, But I also remember hearing 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.080 in the documentary about how how he went to his 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:06.720 mother's funeral and he didn't quite understand what was happening, 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:08.080 and they said, you know, mommy is always going to 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.880 be with you, and he goes, wait, mommy's in the box. 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:12.840 Why is mommy going in the ground, and try to 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:16.040 stop the guy from lowering the casket into the ground. 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:21.199 That's so traumatic, And especially if they never got him 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:26.320 any help afterwards and anyone to talk to or and 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.679 and I don't know what the situation how it was 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:32.399 different for his siblings, because in the documentary they don't 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.119 say anything if like the dad brought any of the 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:38.119 other siblings out to watch that, or if it was 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:42.280 only him. I also think it kind of robs you 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:44.440 of a childhood in a way. Of course this isn't 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:48.200 my personal opinion, but when you were forced to be 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.840 a secret keeper a k and adult from an early 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:54.200 age and you're allowed to speak your truth or seek 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:59.159 your truth, I think that there's a um, a disconnect 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:02.359 in your brain. And I think that he missed out on. 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:07.399 I think it stones your growth emotionally, and so you 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:10.159 kind of are just living as an adult, but in 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:14.440 the emotional brain of a child essentially. And and something 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:17.440 that ties these two cases together, actually the Robert Durst 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:21.040 in the Gabby Potito cases also um the domestic abuse 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:24.840 because in both cases and and Robert Durst kind of 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.159 kept dismissing it. Actually he kept saying, you know, it 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:30.800 wasn't it wasn't It wasn't like I hit her. I 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:34.280 was just like shoving and slapping, Like that's nobody Like 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:36.560 he just kept saying it. It's like, oh, well, no, 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:38.560 that wasn't a big fight. That was just just shoving 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:41.359 and slapping fight. Yes, So so what she fell to 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:45.200 the floor, It's like, yeah, like it was this and 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:48.199 and and when you watched Gabby talk about it. She 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:50.439 was like, well, no, it wasn't. He didn't really hit me. 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:54.080 He just you know, pinched my face or you know 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:56.760 whatever it was. But it's it's always when it's it's 0:22:56.880 --> 0:23:02.040 just it's just you know, that's when you know uses 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:07.359 for it. Yeah, I remember. God, It's like, there are 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:09.760 one thousand details I want to go into. And there's 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:13.080 also something to be said about the fact that again 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:19.040 both Brian and Robert ran. The only difference is that 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:22.280 Robert was hiding in plain sight and he was dressing 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:27.120 as a woman in disguise in Galveston, Texas before he 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:34.680 uh allegedly well before there was self defense and um 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:38.439 along with the killing of Morris Black or so it 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:40.639 was ruled. But I think they're looking into that again 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:44.520 because he then uh eviscerated his body and put them 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:46.680 in bags and threw them in a body of water. 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:51.560 So I think that's something that they're revisiting well, and 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:54.000 which brings me to the next question. When when I 0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:57.200 was doing all of this research for Today, something that 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:00.479 kept coming up when I was researching serial killers was 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:03.640 if somebody has killed multiple people but they do it 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:11.199 in order to protect their freedom, are they considered serial 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:17.640 killers versus somebody that kills because they get off on killing. Yeah, 0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:20.760 I think they're both serial killers. It's just a different 0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:23.080 theme as to why they're doing it. But if you're 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:27.760 killing multiple people, it's just you know, just getting rid 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:29.800 of them whenever you feel like it. I think you 0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:33.359 have to fall onto that thing under that category. My 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:40.639 think Robert Durst killed because he was a stone called 0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:44.800 killer or allegedly or do you think that he killed 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:50.240 because he just wanted to protect his from getting put 0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:54.760 in jail? Like when I think about Brian Laundry, I 0:24:54.800 --> 0:25:04.800