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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Real

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Speaker 1: Time Crime. I'm one of your hosts, Lea Lamar, and

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Speaker 1: I've got with me Teddy Mellencamp. Hi, Hi, Teddy Teddy.

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Speaker 1: I think the real crime is how are you so

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Speaker 1: naturally beautiful? I think the real crime is that you

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Speaker 1: have a background now that shows you as like a

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Speaker 1: real detective, and I still have my original background. I

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Speaker 1: want to just let you know that I'm sweating through

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Speaker 1: my coat and I thought it would be fun, but

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Speaker 1: it's it's not fun. It doesn't feel fun. It feels

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Speaker 1: very hot and not in the sexy fun way. But

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Speaker 1: it's making your face look very glowy. That's it's giving

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Speaker 1: you good. It's giving you a good glow, a natural glow. Dmitri,

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Speaker 1: did we hear you laugh? Did we say you could?

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Speaker 1: Are you allowed to speak on this podcast? Producers? Dmitri? Hello,

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Speaker 1: Dmitri Hello. Here's the thing I said. I would speak

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Speaker 1: very minimally, but I'm not allowed to mute. And if

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Speaker 1: you guys are gonna sit there like saying stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna laugh. I'll muffle it as much as I can,

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Speaker 1: but this is gonna happen, I'm sorry. We were talking

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Speaker 1: about the beautiful glow I have on my face for

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Speaker 1: my trench coat. Thank you. I thought it was funny

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Speaker 1: that you got this trench coat to look you know, inspectory,

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Speaker 1: and now you're super uncomfortable and I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: gotta kick out of that. Yeah, this isn't quite the

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Speaker 1: right fit for me. You know, I thought crime, but

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Speaker 1: make it fashion. But Zara doesn't know how to do crime.

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Speaker 1: Well what we do, which is why we need to

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Speaker 1: get to business, guys. And I have to start by

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Speaker 1: saying thank you to one of our listeners who sent

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Speaker 1: me a d M about the Gabby Potito case, which

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Speaker 1: of course there's been some updates, but also not any

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Speaker 1: more information on find finding Brian. But something we didn't

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Speaker 1: think about. Remember the last text that she was sending

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Speaker 1: about stand where where I was saying maybe Brian was

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Speaker 1: sending the stand text. Somebody named Justine sent me a

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Speaker 1: d M and said, maybe it wasn't about someone named Stan.

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Speaker 1: Maybe stand meant text, uh send in send the authorities.

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Speaker 1: Now I just got the chills down my spine. Is

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Speaker 1: that a known entity? I don't know. I just got

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Speaker 1: I was just going through my damns when I was,

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Speaker 1: because you guys were a couple of minutes later just

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Speaker 1: saying and I wasn't late. I don't know. I clocked

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Speaker 1: in at so I wouldn't. He didn't click in until

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Speaker 1: even thirty one, So whoever, maybe three? But Dmitri, you

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Speaker 1: want Teddy to think I'm late? Guys, that was totally

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Speaker 1: my fault. You know, I couldn't. Don't thank you. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for taking the blame on this, Dmitri. But Teddy, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So is stand actually is this something that is common practice?

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Speaker 1: Because I don't know, it seems that's I like this theory.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't like it, but it's an interesting theory. However,

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Speaker 1: if she was really in help, don't you think she

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Speaker 1: would just be more direct about it? I mean, may

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Speaker 1: she maybe she was scared he would look at her phone?

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Speaker 1: I mean, didn't he end up with her phone? That's interesting.

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Speaker 1: That's that's such a that's such a detailed thing. Like

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Speaker 1: unless somebody knew this is a code and knew what Like,

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Speaker 1: there's no way someone's going to see that and be

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Speaker 1: like oh s t a n oh, that's probably send

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Speaker 1: the authorities now, Like, unless they had a code set

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Speaker 1: up to know about. I think that's I appreciate the

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Speaker 1: input from from Justine, but that seems a little far

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Speaker 1: faster me. It's very creative and insightful and possibly true. However,

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Speaker 1: it is also odd that her grandfather's name is Stan.

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Speaker 1: Very true, but I did have to say because it's

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Speaker 1: something that we did miss. It is a coincidence, and

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Speaker 1: we did miss it. But I also just want to

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Speaker 1: just for the listeners, go back for three seconds and

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Speaker 1: talk about the last podcast that we had. During the

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Speaker 1: taping of our podcast, we got the news of her

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Speaker 1: autopsy and the results of her death, which we found

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Speaker 1: out with strangulation and throttling. But they haven't yet identified

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Speaker 1: any additional information. Well, they might have, but they didn't

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Speaker 1: clue us into that, for example, whether or not she

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Speaker 1: was under the ground or above the ground, if there

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Speaker 1: was any DNA evidence on her body. So we don't

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Speaker 1: have any of that information just yet. But we have

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Speaker 1: been clued into the cause of death. We already knew

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Speaker 1: it was homicide, but we didn't have that additional information.

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Speaker 1: So I just wanted to use that as a springboard

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Speaker 1: to move forward with the Gabby Petito case and new

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Speaker 1: information that we have and later on in the episode,

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Speaker 1: we are going to actually have on a private detective

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Speaker 1: who is going to answer so many questions that I

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Speaker 1: think will help us decipher some of the things that

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Speaker 1: we are so you know, lost on as just individuals

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Speaker 1: trying to decipher the case, like all of the other

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Speaker 1: slutes out there, wanting to understand what Brian is doing.

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Speaker 1: Like something that I was thinking about. I was watching

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Speaker 1: the sixty Minutes Australia that um Gabby's parents and stepfather

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Speaker 1: Diad was do innocent people run ever? And I think

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Speaker 1: we heard innocent people don't run? Right. It's interesting because

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Speaker 1: I don't want to parlay this away from this case

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Speaker 1: because we have so much to talk about, and I

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Speaker 1: know with our private investigator, Jeff McGrath, we will go

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Speaker 1: in depth into detail. But this is also tying into

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Speaker 1: Robert Durst, who's now back in the media, because innocent

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Speaker 1: people don't run is a very interesting concept because we

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Speaker 1: both know that he ran and was claiming his innocence,

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Speaker 1: but of course he has now been convicted of murder

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Speaker 1: of his best friends in Berman and life in jail

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Speaker 1: without parole. However, he's now on a ventilator in the

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Speaker 1: hospital with COVID nineteen. I want to just tell you

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Speaker 1: right now, I'm holding my tongue and don't you dare

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Speaker 1: I mean here, you're here, this is that's what this

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Speaker 1: is for. I mean, you know, I just I have

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Speaker 1: so many thoughts about it. Am I allowed to completely

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Speaker 1: derail from Gabby Petito at the moment and swing over

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Speaker 1: to Robert Durst or well? I mean I think first off,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't wearing his mask correctly in court. Well, he

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Speaker 1: kept taking it off and putting it back on, apparently,

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Speaker 1: And I think it's probably because he was having trouble breathing.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of the people closest to

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Speaker 1: him have been taking COVID tests making sure that they're negative,

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Speaker 1: and canceled their personal travel plans as well. From what

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Speaker 1: I've read on the news. Did I just say news

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Speaker 1: on the new was oh my in nineteen forties detective Um?

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Speaker 1: But yeah, thank you. I'm honestly I am. I am

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Speaker 1: boiling in here. This was a poor choice. I just

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Speaker 1: want to let everyone know that I didn't make a

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Speaker 1: mistake this morning. I mean, can you not to stop

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Speaker 1: in derail here? But can you just take it off?

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Speaker 1: That's not like a Dickie underneath right, like, that's a

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Speaker 1: did you just ask me to take my trench cod? Now?

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Speaker 1: Now we're getting all kinds hr hr. I just meant

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Speaker 1: if it meant you would be more comfortable. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: this is getting work ahead here. Can we cut this out? No?

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Speaker 1: Keep it in. It's hilarious but also okay, also ill,

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Speaker 1: I think it's important for me to make note of

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Speaker 1: the fact that there is a lot of comedy in tragedy,

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Speaker 1: and there's a time and a place for comedy. I'm

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Speaker 1: a comedian and we all know that, and so sometimes

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Speaker 1: the way that I deal with uncomfortable information is to

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Speaker 1: make jokes about it. But there's nothing funny about murder,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think that it works for me to

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Speaker 1: make jokes about that. And I'm a human being, um,

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Speaker 1: and I feel for all the people that have passed.

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Speaker 1: But I'd like to just make a note of the

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Speaker 1: fact that the things and elements surrounding cases. I like

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Speaker 1: to add moments of levity for my heart and my

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Speaker 1: brain because that's how I process pain and trauma. And

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Speaker 1: if you ever watch my stand up, you will also

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Speaker 1: see that it's basically me just punching down on myself,

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Speaker 1: so I just I just make fun of myself mercilessly.

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Speaker 1: And oh boy, if you've ever dated me, I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 1: But that's a warning to all the men out there. Now.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to go back into quickly talking about Robert

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Speaker 1: Durst again, so you also don't want to date him

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Speaker 1: because he also, I mean, he did murder his millionaire

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Speaker 1: I know, well, allegedly he he has not been convicted

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Speaker 1: of murdering his ex wife yet she is missing and

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Speaker 1: she has never been found. He was convicted recently of

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Speaker 1: murdering Susan Berman, his best friend, and allegedly because she

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Speaker 1: was going to meet with the press over details of that,

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Speaker 1: she may or may not have known what happened to

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Speaker 1: his ex wife. And then she mysteriously went, um, no,

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Speaker 1: she didn't go missing. She was just flat up murdered.

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Speaker 1: And she was she was shot execution style in the

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Speaker 1: back of the head, and there were no signs of

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Speaker 1: forced entry, which means that it was a friend or

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Speaker 1: someone she knew that she welcomed into her home and

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Speaker 1: then she was shot execution style on the back of

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Speaker 1: the head. And so Teddy, I know you watched Jinks,

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Speaker 1: of course, and I and what they are implying on

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Speaker 1: the show on the documentary was she was also having

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Speaker 1: Susan Burman was also having money trouble and it was

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Speaker 1: something that was be above her too potentially or allegedly

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Speaker 1: blackmail someone by saying, if you don't pay me, I

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Speaker 1: am going to come forward with this information. So in

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Speaker 1: the documentary they had said that could potentially had been

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Speaker 1: the cause of why this ended up happening. It's also

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Speaker 1: interesting because Robert gave her I think over a hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars, especially close to the last few months of

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Speaker 1: her life, and I know that he was going to

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Speaker 1: visit her for the holidays, which she apparently was super

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Speaker 1: excited about. And the documentary gave me chills for a

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Speaker 1: number of reasons. Obviously for anyone who's watched all the

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Speaker 1: way to the end. Uh no spoilers, but to spoil

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Speaker 1: he says, I killed them all when his mike still

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Speaker 1: hot and he's in the bathroom also listening to the

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Speaker 1: man nearly vomit and p and talk about his burping

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Speaker 1: while he's realizing he got got from his handwriting and

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Speaker 1: the block letters and the misspelling of the word Beverly

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Speaker 1: on the letters. I mean, it was a little much

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Speaker 1: for me, to be honest. I was like, we're too

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Speaker 1: close and personal with this man. Couldn't they have edited

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Speaker 1: out the farting and the burping? No, And I mean

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Speaker 1: it for anyone that doesn't know what when the mike's hot,

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Speaker 1: the mike the mike hot doesn't mean it's like warm

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Speaker 1: on you, the mike hot mean yeah. Like I didn't

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Speaker 1: know about the mike hot until I personally was on

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Speaker 1: a reality television show, and like I thought, if there

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Speaker 1: wasn't a camera like facing me at the moment that

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Speaker 1: I was, I was done. I was like, in the

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Speaker 1: in the clear. No, if there is a mike pack

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Speaker 1: on you, you are. Anything you say can and will

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Speaker 1: be held against you. And it's what's so ironic is

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Speaker 1: that the comedy club that I created on a house

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Speaker 1: is called hot on the mic. And it's two fold.

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Speaker 1: It's a double entendre because everyone who does called me

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Speaker 1: there is sexy, okay, but then also he hates he

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Speaker 1: can't he can't even look at me. And then the

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Speaker 1: other reason is because comedians there are doing crowd work

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Speaker 1: left and right, and you're just going there's no way

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Speaker 1: to just turn your mic off. And stop talking. Anything

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Speaker 1: that you say could be recorded at any time, and

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Speaker 1: usually everything is hilarious, So, you know, I think that

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Speaker 1: that's really interesting. Obviously what Robert or says is not hilarious,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's interesting that there was some foreshadowing

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Speaker 1: before that final moment where he's they take a break

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Speaker 1: during the interview. Do you remember this, Teddy? They take

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Speaker 1: a break and he starts talking and and saying out

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Speaker 1: loud to himself when he thinks that the mic is

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Speaker 1: off because he's not. He doesn't realize that that you

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Speaker 1: actually have to turn the mic pack off manually basically,

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Speaker 1: and he just starts talking to himself. He's like, intentionally,

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Speaker 1: did I intentionally lie? No, no, one didn't. You didn't

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Speaker 1: intentionally lie. You could leave things out. And his lawyer

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Speaker 1: comes over to him and it's like, your mike is hot.

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Speaker 1: We we just heard everything you said. Oh yeah, because

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Speaker 1: he you you know, you can tell that he's actually

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Speaker 1: trying to prep himself on what he's going to say

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Speaker 1: in the next interview piece like you do that in

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Speaker 1: any interview if you're like about to join an interview.

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Speaker 1: The problem is his mike was on, he's being recorded

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Speaker 1: and he's doing it about murder. The thing is that

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Speaker 1: it's very clear he's hyper intelligent. He's an extremely smart man.

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Speaker 1: Obviously he has gotten away allegedly with multiple murders until recently.

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Speaker 1: And I mean he's very again also, I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you've got an endless pot of money, there's some money

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Speaker 1: at the problem, make it go away. He had, you know,

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Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of um fees

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Speaker 1: that he sent towards lawyers, originally just to get the

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Speaker 1: two best lawyers on the case to help him get

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Speaker 1: out of the Morris Black murder. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: it was more than I was a hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand or well was his bail. And then but also

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Speaker 1: he won because his current was either fiance or wife.

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Speaker 1: I'm not and I actually love her. She can I

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Speaker 1: just say that she's your sassy New Yorker. Great. I

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Speaker 1: was like, is that me in twenty years from now? Well,

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Speaker 1: now you be married to a serial killer. But she

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Speaker 1: she was just so straightforward. She was you can tell

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Speaker 1: she's very concerned about the money. She's very concerned. She

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Speaker 1: is really rapped. She's upset that he wasn't a part

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Speaker 1: of the business. She doesn't even care about the murder situation.

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Speaker 1: She's like, anyways, I'm upset that you weren't a part

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Speaker 1: of the business. That your brothers pu you out. Like

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Speaker 1: She's like, this is why we need the top lawyers,

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Speaker 1: because we need your hand more in the money. Well.

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Speaker 1: She also she also told him that she would divorce

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Speaker 1: him if he didn't get rid of his first lawyer

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Speaker 1: because the first lawyer wanted him to plead insanity and

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Speaker 1: if you played insanity, then they would get in control

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Speaker 1: of all of the money, and that she wouldn't get

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Speaker 1: any of the money. Yeah, she she had a you know,

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Speaker 1: she saw dollar signs all of the time. And all

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Speaker 1: I'm saying is smart woman. But he had very Oh yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: you're right. How do how do you could write a

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Speaker 1: book how to marry a serial killer? But an alleged

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Speaker 1: serial killer? But his patience level is not hot because

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Speaker 1: even when he was talking about his first wife, Kathy,

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Speaker 1: and he was talking about her mother and he was

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Speaker 1: talking I mean, granted, we all have mother in laws,

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Speaker 1: they could be a little bit tricky, but he was

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Speaker 1: like this talking about how Kathy would get bummed or

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Speaker 1: the mom would get bummed. Because he couldn't talk to her,

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Speaker 1: and he was like, she would read these magazines, and

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Speaker 1: then he would start blinking away, and then he'd be like,

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Speaker 1: and I don't care, you know, I couldn't be bothered.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about her magazines. And you're

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Speaker 1: just sitting there and you're like, you couldn't give her

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Speaker 1: two minutes. You couldn't give two minutes of time. It's

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Speaker 1: interesting because I think that the documentary at first kind

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Speaker 1: of humanizes him a little bit, and you can see

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Speaker 1: the way, in my opinion, the interviewer starts to build

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Speaker 1: this rapport with him, which by the end of the

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Speaker 1: series you can see that he also is kind of

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Speaker 1: bummed that he finally realizes that he is a murderer.

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Speaker 1: And I think he truly wanted to believe that it

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Speaker 1: wasn't so, and that he was kind of painted um incorrectly.

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Speaker 1: But it's really hard every time I listened to any

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Speaker 1: of the conversations he has, it's really hard to see

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Speaker 1: a serial killer as someone who is every conversation with

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Speaker 1: the words bye bye. And I don't know how that's

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Speaker 1: possible to make him look innocent or nice or kind,

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Speaker 1: But the way that he carries himself, and the way

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Speaker 1: that he made an entire jury laugh during his trial

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Speaker 1: against the murder of Morris Black. Lets you know that

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Speaker 1: it probably was difficult for him to be nailed down

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Speaker 1: as a murderer because there's something about him that is

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Speaker 1: so charming and it's probably the reason why he survived

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Speaker 1: as long without getting taken down. But I think also

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Speaker 1: something I want to ask um, I want to ask

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Speaker 1: Jeff about is his mother's suicide and what that plays

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Speaker 1: into what you turn into, Like was are you born

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Speaker 1: this way or is this something that after seeing such

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Speaker 1: a traumatic event that it you become teddy? Another great

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Speaker 1: point you brought up. You're still good with these details, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So something that I found interesting was that him and

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Speaker 1: Susan Berman bonded immediately because they both had parents died

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Speaker 1: at an early age, and Susan's dad was in the mob,

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Speaker 1: and you know, she was a self proclaimed mafia princess,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, they actually originally thought that her

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Speaker 1: death was by mob because the execution style hit is

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Speaker 1: very mafia like, right, Um, until you know they realized

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Speaker 1: it was Robert. But I think that in this case,

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Speaker 1: the fact that both of them had parents died from

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Speaker 1: an early age, and that Robert witnessed his mother's suicide.

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Speaker 1: There's an impact that it has on young children where

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Speaker 1: it creates personality disorders, and whether it's borderline personality, narcissist,

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Speaker 1: narcissistic personality, psychopathy, socio path tendencies, there are different ways

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Speaker 1: in which this starts to manifest in young children, and

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Speaker 1: so a lot of it's almost as if when you

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Speaker 1: when you read about narcissism that children who have narcissistic

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Speaker 1: traits are usually because they were either ill parented as

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Speaker 1: children or had a lack of a parent growing up,

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Speaker 1: and it's childhood abuses essentially also and and blocking out

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Speaker 1: certain memories. But also not only did she commit suicide,

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Speaker 1: he also had to live a lie because it came

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Speaker 1: forward like they announced it as that she fell. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he's now covering up as a child. Not only

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Speaker 1: are you forced to live that you saw your mother

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Speaker 1: commit suicide, you now are living a live for your

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Speaker 1: for your entire family that that's not what happened. And historically,

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Speaker 1: the sickness is in the secrets. And I think it

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Speaker 1: feels like he spent his entire lifetime just not trying

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Speaker 1: to get justice for it in a way, because I

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Speaker 1: think that for him, he felt probably so slighted and

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Speaker 1: was probably never felt seen or heard, and was denied

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Speaker 1: the experience of grief and trauma. And so I mean,

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Speaker 1: not deny the experience of trauma, just denied the experience

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Speaker 1: of grief. And so I don't know if he lacked

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Speaker 1: empathy growing up because he didn't know how to grieve

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Speaker 1: or wasn't allowed to grieve. I mean, also, God, sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm a rambles city today, But I also remember hearing

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Speaker 1: in the documentary about how how he went to his

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00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 1: mother's funeral and he didn't quite understand what was happening,

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Speaker 1: and they said, you know, mommy is always going to

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Speaker 1: be with you, and he goes, wait, mommy's in the box.

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Speaker 1: Why is mommy going in the ground, and try to

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Speaker 1: stop the guy from lowering the casket into the ground.

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Speaker 1: That's so traumatic, And especially if they never got him

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Speaker 1: any help afterwards and anyone to talk to or and

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Speaker 1: and I don't know what the situation how it was

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Speaker 1: different for his siblings, because in the documentary they don't

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Speaker 1: say anything if like the dad brought any of the

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00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: other siblings out to watch that, or if it was

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Speaker 1: only him. I also think it kind of robs you

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Speaker 1: of a childhood in a way. Of course this isn't

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Speaker 1: my personal opinion, but when you were forced to be

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Speaker 1: a secret keeper a k and adult from an early

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Speaker 1: age and you're allowed to speak your truth or seek

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Speaker 1: your truth, I think that there's a um, a disconnect

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Speaker 1: in your brain. And I think that he missed out on.

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Speaker 1: I think it stones your growth emotionally, and so you

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00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 1: kind of are just living as an adult, but in

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Speaker 1: the emotional brain of a child essentially. And and something

359
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 1: that ties these two cases together, actually the Robert Durst

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Speaker 1: in the Gabby Potito cases also um the domestic abuse

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00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 1: because in both cases and and Robert Durst kind of

362
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 1: kept dismissing it. Actually he kept saying, you know, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't It wasn't like I hit her. I

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Speaker 1: was just like shoving and slapping, Like that's nobody Like

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Speaker 1: he just kept saying it. It's like, oh, well, no,

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00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: that wasn't a big fight. That was just just shoving

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00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: and slapping fight. Yes, So so what she fell to

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Speaker 1: the floor, It's like, yeah, like it was this and

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Speaker 1: and and when you watched Gabby talk about it. She

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Speaker 1: was like, well, no, it wasn't. He didn't really hit me.

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Speaker 1: He just you know, pinched my face or you know

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Speaker 1: whatever it was. But it's it's always when it's it's

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Speaker 1: just it's just you know, that's when you know uses

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Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, I remember. God, It's like, there are

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00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: one thousand details I want to go into. And there's

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00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: also something to be said about the fact that again

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00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: both Brian and Robert ran. The only difference is that

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00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: Robert was hiding in plain sight and he was dressing

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Speaker 1: as a woman in disguise in Galveston, Texas before he

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00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 1: uh allegedly well before there was self defense and um

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Speaker 1: along with the killing of Morris Black or so it

382
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 1: was ruled. But I think they're looking into that again

383
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: because he then uh eviscerated his body and put them

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Speaker 1: in bags and threw them in a body of water.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's something that they're revisiting well, and

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00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: which brings me to the next question. When when I

387
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Speaker 1: was doing all of this research for Today, something that

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00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,479
Speaker 1: kept coming up when I was researching serial killers was

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Speaker 1: if somebody has killed multiple people but they do it

390
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 1: in order to protect their freedom, are they considered serial

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Speaker 1: killers versus somebody that kills because they get off on killing. Yeah,

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00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: I think they're both serial killers. It's just a different

393
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: theme as to why they're doing it. But if you're

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Speaker 1: killing multiple people, it's just you know, just getting rid

395
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: of them whenever you feel like it. I think you

396
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: have to fall onto that thing under that category. My

397
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: think Robert Durst killed because he was a stone called

398
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Speaker 1: killer or allegedly or do you think that he killed

399
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Speaker 1: because he just wanted to protect his from getting put

400
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: in jail? Like when I think about Brian Laundry, I

401
00:24:54,800 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: think he had rage always. Well, it seems like Brian

402
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 1: and Robert had that in common. And if Cathy, whose

403
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: body has never been found to this day, so if

404
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: her disappearance was actually a murder, right, and perhaps it

405
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: was something similar to the Gabby Bryan situation, where is

406
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: a passion of crime, a strangulation and then you know,

407
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: maybe he freaked out, buried her, whatever he did to

408
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: the body, it's never been found. And then the fact

409
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: that Susan Berman just randomly was murdered when she was

410
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: about to speak to the police and cooperate with authorities,

411
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like he's killing because um that that

412
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: to me just shows that he is refusing to Yeah,

413
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: he's refusing to take accountability. Also, I just want to

414
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 1: let everyone know not only do I not have a

415
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: sociology or psychology degree, but these are just my thoughts

416
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: and opinions, and I'm probably wrong, thank you on on

417
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: half of the things I'm saying, Just to be clear,

418
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: I think legally you didn't have to throw in that

419
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: you're probably wrong. But all the alleged leads is nice.

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00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: It's a nice We're just trying to sound smart. Here

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00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: is it working? Dmitri? I think I think all of

422
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: this is obviously speculation, and you know, we're all doing

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00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: our best to figure out what it is that makes

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00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: people taking it. And something that I think that we

425
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: that I want to dig into, especially once we get

426
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 1: him on, is why everybody has been so closed? Why

427
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: why the FBI has been so closed? You know, everything's

428
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: been so kept quiet, especially when Gabby's body was found

429
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: one day after a YouTuber showed where the van was.

430
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: The van was shown on a Saturday, and Gabby's body

431
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: was found on a Sunday the day after, And so

432
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: is the question, why are they not filling us in

433
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: more of the details. Yeah, if we could help not

434
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: we not me, but if if people could help Listen,

435
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: the more he's gone and hiding, he's not going to

436
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 1: come out and be like, oh, I was just camping.

437
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: What happened? To fill me in? Like, obviously we all

438
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: have our own opinions. I don't think there's many people

439
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: out there that that think he's not responsible for this,

440
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: and we don't know whether he is or not. But

441
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: I think everybody feels that way. And so the longer

442
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: he's gone, the more at his points to that. So

443
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: it's like, where does this end? To your point? Leah

444
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: also that it was interesting that they said strangulation by human.

445
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: They made a note of that, and I was like,

446
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: what are the other strangulation by snake by? I think

447
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: it was just such an By the way, according to

448
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: Jammi Lavada, you can't say alien anymore. Oh, you're right,

449
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: I'm Demi's going to cancel me. I know it's very

450
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: offensive to the extraterrestrials. Is that word offensive? It should

451
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: be because it's extra. You're not even calling them right now,

452
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: You're saying extra like they're not needed. It's also extra.

453
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: I just called if you guys could prefer to me

454
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: as extraly, I'd really appreciate it, thank you. Um, do

455
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: we want to dig in a little bit speaking of

456
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: whatever Brian's eating, about the peanut butter sandwiches at all? Yeah, yeah,

457
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: you like Jeff. Okay, So, according to the United States

458
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: Department of Justice, Jonathan Toby from Annapolis, Maryland, was allegedly

459
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: willing to sell sensitive details about our nuclear powered submarines

460
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: of foreign government and hid that info and half of

461
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: a peanut butter sandwich. Yeah. The Department of Justice said

462
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: that Toby was a Department of the Navy employee who

463
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: had been assigned to the Naval Nuclear Propulsion I don't

464
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: even know how to say this word. That's propulsion program.

465
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: His work as a nuclear engine engineer allowed him to

466
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: receive top secret security clearance through the U. S. Department

467
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: of Defense, as well as Q clearance from the U. S.

468
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: Department of Energy Energy, which gave him access to secret

469
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: restricted data. Okay, but here's the part that really hits me.

470
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,239
Speaker 1: He doesn't even really do his research enough to know

471
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: that he is sneaking it to the proper people and

472
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: is giving it to the actual FBI. I I mean

473
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: in my opinion, I'm looking forward to seeing the transcript

474
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: of their messages to each other, because for me, there

475
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: has to be something in there of him being like, Hey,

476
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 1: just curious, do you have a peanut allergy? And you know,

477
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: I'm just so curious to know that's how you know

478
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: Jonathan isn't a little bit because he can eat pean utes.

479
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: But Jonathan was obviously born before nineteen because Jonathan is

480
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: an allergic to peanut. Yeah, and I'm also wondering what

481
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: kind was that the crunchy was a creamy. I mean,

482
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: it sounds like it sounds like a children's book. The

483
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: fact that he was sneaking it out on peanut butter sandwiches,

484
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: Like that's like Encyclopedia Brown or Ivy and Bean or picture. Yeah.

485
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: As someone who was a vegetarian from the age of

486
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: twelve to twenty and only had peanut butter and jelly

487
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: sandwiches all of high school, every single day, I will

488
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: tell you I did think I was better than everyone

489
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: and everybody. I was a vegetarian when I was a kid,

490
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: and then my mom never felt the need to tell

491
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: me that hot dogs were I mean, I guess they're

492
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: not really meat either. But I would still eat hot dogs.

493
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: And she was like, at some point she's going to

494
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: realize that this. Oh wow, all right, so well just

495
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: really quickly, because I do love the idea of the

496
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: pep in the peanut butter sandwich conversation. The fact that

497
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: they went to West Virginia. First, let me just say

498
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: there are so few Jews in West Virginia that in

499
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: order to have a minion, which is ten or more

500
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: Jewish Men in case of a funeral, they have to

501
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: import them from other places. There are so few Jews

502
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: in West Virginia. So I'll never go there. But why

503
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: do you know that? Because I went to school in Virginia. Oh,

504
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: and you were like, don't cross the border. Would never

505
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: go to the never go to the west one. It's

506
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: very scary, okay. But and that's how I know that

507
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: I would never be involved in any sort of FBI situation,

508
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: because if they go to West Virginia, it's just not

509
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: worth it to me. Um. I also thought it was

510
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: interesting they were paying him to crypto. They were paying

511
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: him in minaro. I know, for anyone who doesn't know

512
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: his scryptocurrency. Well, guys, I think we're gonna have to

513
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: take a little break because we've got to brand jacket now.

514
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: We do have to take a break, and when we

515
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: come back, we'll bring Jeff the p I and we'll

516
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: get some real details for you all, not just our opinions.

517
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: We just cooked Dmitri so hard. That's exactly what I wanted.

518
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: I was gonna say. Jeff is in the waiting room.

519
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: Let's take a break. You just saw me raise my hand.

520
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: We have him under our thumb. He has to raise

521
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: his hands, right, Let's go to a break. Yeah, Hello everyone,

522
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: and welcome back to real time crime. We have with

523
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: us now someone I'm very excited to introduce Jeff McGrath,

524
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: who is a private investigator. We're gonna speak with Jeff

525
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: a little bit about some Gabby Potito updates, Robert Durst,

526
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: peanut butter sandwich spies, and get his take on all

527
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: of this. He is a d u I expert. He

528
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: is super successful in accident investigation, reconstruction scenes. And Jeff

529
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: is the retired police officer motorcycle traffic d u I,

530
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: a officer and drug recognition expert. Jeff, thanks for being

531
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: here with us today. Thanks for having me. You you

532
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: guys make me happy. Okay, it's a break in my

533
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: it's a break in my day, and I love it.

534
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: So you're ready for us to grill you. I mean,

535
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: go ahead. Can't be any you can't be any worse

536
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: than any attorney that's Hitney. Nothing could be hotter than

537
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: how I feel in this trench coat. Right, So okay,

538
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: let's just start with something easy. Where's Brian Laundry? He's

539
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: not in the continental United States that I'm pretty much

540
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: sure of. And how do we know that, Jeff, Well,

541
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: we don't know that for certain, but you know, the

542
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: suspicion behind the camping trip with his parents, I think

543
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: that was just to plan his getaway. How much money

544
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: does it actually take to disappear? I can do it

545
00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: for twenty bucks? Yeah. Yeah. If you out of the country,

546
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: if you're willing to live off the grid, and you

547
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: can find some fisherman that said, you know, hey, can

548
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: you just get me a hundred miles out to see

549
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: you can find somewhere, especially if you're in Florida. There's

550
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: a lot of areas that you could go where you

551
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: leave the continental US in just a short time. And Jen,

552
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: if you find a group on for ten dollars, will

553
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: you match that price. Yes, absolutely, okay, thank you? Where

554
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: you go? Group on? Yeah? Don't you group on your murder?

555
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: Getting right right, right right? And if somebody already knows

556
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: who you are and what you look like and all

557
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: those things. How do you get a burner phone? Oh?

558
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: Anybody can get a burn phone. You can pop into

559
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: a circle K and get a burner phone. You can

560
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: use an alias name. UM. You could have a prepaid

561
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 1: debit card that doesn't track you, UM in advance and

562
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: you could you could take care of that. You could

563
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: have a burner phone, no issues. I deal with a

564
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: lot of people with burner phones, and some of them

565
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,439
Speaker 1: I've found three and four phones. Wow. How you find

566
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 1: people if they have burner phones? Um? Typically I don't

567
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: find them through the phone because any any reverse phone

568
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: search doesn't turn up results. That's how I know it's

569
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: a burner. But then I look for activities and things

570
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: that people usually are creatures of habit. Even though they

571
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 1: try to break that, they will start to falter back

572
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: towards something. Uh, and eventually you can catch them. And

573
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: what would you say? The reasoning behind Brian's parents not

574
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: speaking to Gabby's parents at all would be I don't

575
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: think they have any desire in speaking to them. They

576
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: haven't shown any concern that that Brian is even missing. Uh,

577
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: and I don't think they want to fully cooperate because

578
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 1: they can be charged. So in your opinion, you don't

579
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: think it could potentially be because the FBI has told

580
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: them it's better for them to stay quiet. No, I

581
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 1: guarantee you an attorney that they have has told them

582
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: it's better to stay quiet. They have the Atlantesome to talk. Well.

583
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: Jeff's people reported that they saw him on the Appalachian Trail.

584
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: Do you think that there's any chance that he's there?

585
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: And if not, do you think that there are a

586
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 1: lot of people on the Appalachian Trail who have committed

587
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: crimes that are hiding. Oh? Probably have you ever been

588
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: to the Appalachian Trail but for this reason, Um, it's

589
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 1: a it's a long trail. But oh, I guarantee there's

590
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: some people there with that have committed some crimes. Absolutely. Um,

591
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: you don't know who your neighbor is sometimes, so yeah,

592
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: you run into somebody who's living off the grid in

593
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: the Appalachians would make me kind of wonder. I've taken

594
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: my kids campaign just out here in the desert and

595
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: seeing some really shady stuff. So I can imagine what

596
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: the Appalachian Trail is if he was on the Appalachian Trail,

597
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: which I know you don't think that he is. How

598
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: long could you live off the grid without anything depends

599
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: on his background. If he has any survival training. Uh,

600
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: you know, somebody with that type of training, wilderness survival,

601
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: they could survive years out there. If they know how

602
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: to get their own food and shelter and water, they

603
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: can be fine. But I don't think he has that

604
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: training that you know, you would expect to see somebody

605
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: looking off the grid as a mountain man. I used

606
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: to one state a guy who lived off the land

607
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: and eviscerated animals so that he could feed himself and

608
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 1: made his own clothing. And now I'm starting to wonder

609
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: if I should call the FBI. You should probably let

610
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: me know who he is so I can look back.

611
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: He always said that if the apocalypse happened, I should

612
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: go back to his house. But I feel like he's

613
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: the last person I want to be around during an apocalypse.

614
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: I think that's a standard pickup line, thank you? Is

615
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: that on his tender app I can't it's that's his

616
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: that's his tag. I cannot with that. Um. Okay, speaking

617
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: of the media stuff, because you brought up that he's

618
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 1: all over the media. Do you think for somebody like him,

619
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: with his personality type, do you think this is like

620
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 1: feeding his ego? Do you think he's sitting around watching it?

621
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: Do you think that? Or do you think he's completely

622
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: away from it all. I think he's a sociopath, is

623
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: what I think. I think he's a he's an abuser, um,

624
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: and I don't think he really thinks twice about it.

625
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: He may be very ego centric and self centered, and

626
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: it may be feeding his ego. I don't see that

627
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: in what I've heard of him, but it wouldn't be

628
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: uncommon for a sociopath to have those tendencies. Mhm. Can

629
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: I ask a quick question back to his parents? This

630
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: is this is where I'm sorry I didn't. I didn't wait.

631
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: Leo Teddy may ask a question. You may ask a question.

632
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. What I don't get in terms

633
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: of his parents is, okay, so if there's if they're

634
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: smart enough that they're covering all this up, right, But

635
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: then then they're not smart enough to play along and

636
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: make it seem like they really don't know like you do.

637
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: They not trust their acting skills. Would you not talk

638
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: to Gabby's family like? And if that's the case, if

639
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 1: they're not good enough to act that way, then why

640
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: haven't the police and the I've gotten something from them

641
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:07,919
Speaker 1: while questioning them. It's called lawyer um at Any cops

642
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 1: will tell you that as soon as someone mentions attorney,

643
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: you can no longer question them. It's just it's a

644
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: that's their right. Uh, it would be. I tell every

645
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: one of my clients shut up, don't talk to anybody,

646
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: every one of them, because you will ultimately incriminate yourself.

647
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: So that's what Lee and Teddy say to me. By

648
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: the way, shut up, don't talk to anybody, you know,

649
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: I say, shush up. I'm a mother, yeah, And every

650
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: time every time my parents asked me why I don't

651
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: have children yet, I'll just say, you have to speak

652
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: to my lawyer work. Yeah, But okay, so start Jeff.

653
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: We we obviously have ten million more questions, by the way,

654
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: I can't I have so many because also I watched

655
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: the sixteen minutes thing last night. I told them earlier,

656
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: and I was listening to Gabby's mother, and she was

657
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: saying when the cops arrested not that not arrest to them,

658
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 1: when the cops pulled them over for the slapping, and

659
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: they were when they were Yeah, and when that happened.

660
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: Gabby's mom was saying that she saw her daughter and

661
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: obviously it was a cry for help, you could see

662
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: in her daughter's face. However, the cops that arrested them

663
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: did not see that. Yeah, And they didn't arrest them.

664
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: They just separated them. They just separated them. What did

665
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,720
Speaker 1: you see in that moment? Well, in in in my state,

666
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: as a police officer, um, as a as a police officer,

667
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: your hands are tied. If you see marks, and there's

668
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: admission of physical contact, and you have witnesses that are

669
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,919
Speaker 1: not a part of the party saying that they saw

670
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: the same thing. They both go to jail. That's in

671
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: my state, and you both go to jail, she said,

672
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: And I think this is either out of fear or

673
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: protecting him. She said, no, no, no, I hit him first.

674
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: That would automatically put her in handcuffs as well. But

675
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: the officer said, I see a mark on your face,

676
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,479
Speaker 1: and these people saw him punch you, so he would

677
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: also go on handcuffs until they see a judge and

678
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: they can be released. Um, why that didn't happen there,

679
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: I don't know what their loss in Utah are surrounding

680
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: domestic violence, but in in Arizona, both parties go to

681
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: jail in that situation. And I think she was either

682
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: protecting him because she was either in love and and

683
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: and going oh, he didn't mean it, or she was

684
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,959
Speaker 1: scared because the retaliation will result in what it did.

685
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: And do you think this interview that the parents did

686
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: can help an investigation or hurt it? I think an

687
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: interview in general can do both. It depends if the

688
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: attorneys there and in guiding the questions and they're very

689
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: careful as to what they say. It can help the investigation.

690
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,479
Speaker 1: But there's times where they're going to be there's there's

691
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: information they just do not want to release because it

692
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: could it could hinder Um, it will h could hinder them,

693
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 1: but the police themselves would take it into a different investigation.

694
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: So I've got another question for you. Okay, what is

695
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: the first if we could just back up a little,

696
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 1: what does the first step you take when you're looking

697
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: for a missing person? Do you ever see patterns. We

698
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: look for patterns. The very first thing we do is

699
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: we look for where did they go missing, Where was

700
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: the last place they were seeing, Who was the last

701
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: person to talk to them. Then we start working backwards

702
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: from there. Okay, who talked to him before that? What

703
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: did they do? Did you see any indications leading up

704
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: to this? Then we look at bank accounts, um, credit

705
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: card transactions. Um, there's there's all kinds of avenues we

706
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: go that I would call first. It's it's like a

707
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: as soon as you get a missing person's case, the

708
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: first thing you do is about a thousand things. So

709
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to say the very first thing you do,

710
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: you and you want to analyze their patterns. What did

711
00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: they do before and did it change recently? Um? Like

712
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: I said, people are always creatures of habit. You have

713
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 1: to work hard at not changing or head changing your routine.

714
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, we'd look for those things. And when people

715
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,479
Speaker 1: when you guys are getting tipped off, when people are

716
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: sending in tips, how do you know which ones to

717
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: take seriously? Well, that's a really difficult thing. You take

718
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: every tip that comes in seriously. Everyone. And with the

719
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: case I'm working right now, we've received everything from we

720
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: know who's holding them, is that legs are broken being

721
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: held in the basement, um, you know, and we have

722
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: to take it all seriously. Sometimes people just are sick

723
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: and twisted and they just want to they want to

724
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: speak and put their two cents in um. Sometimes people

725
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: want to do it anonymously. I get a lot of

726
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: burner phones that are sending texts that just are absolutely horrific,

727
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: and the father's reading them. Uh. But you you you

728
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: vet each and every tip that comes in by who's

729
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: given the tip, where was it seem, when was it

730
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 1: seem or ported? And then you do have to do

731
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: some investigation on those tips. So I could say, you know,

732
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 1: out of ten tips, I'm probably going to be doing

733
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 1: some legwork on eight of them. And do you think

734
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: that YouTube and TikTok and all of these you know,

735
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: trending things that have been happening around all of these

736
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: high profile cases, do you think that it's helpful or hurtful?

737
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: I think it's hurtful. I think it's very hurtful. You

738
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: get all these amateur investigators that want to poke into it,

739
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: and and and and they start calling the investigators saying,

740
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: oh I found this and hey, I found that, and

741
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: oh I talked to this person. This is something I'm

742
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: dealing with right now, and I'm going you know what,

743
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: these are persons of interest for me. There's a reason

744
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: we have not interviewed them yet. It's strategic. And now

745
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: you jump in and start talking because you want to

746
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: be an investigator, you're hurting my case. Um, the only

747
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: thing with publicity on that that helps is getting the

748
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,720
Speaker 1: face out there. So if anybody's seen the person and

749
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: and basically some background information, that's what helps. The actual

750
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: independent amateur investigators that there's thousands out there and psychics

751
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 1: I should say, Um, they don't help. They don't help

752
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: at all. As a matter of fact, they slowly What

753
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: about the case of the fact that the YouTube video

754
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: that was released from Red White and Bethew in the

755
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: Van Life Couple family, the fact that that led them

756
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 1: to find Gabby's body pretty directly, would you say that

757
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: there are sometimes when it's helpful and most of the

758
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: time it's hurtful. Oh yeah, yeah. I can't make the

759
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: blanket statement that that every time some some YouTuber or

760
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: or TikTok says something that it hurts, I can't. I

761
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: can't say that. I can say a lot of times

762
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: it does because they're they're they're putting out false information

763
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: or information they don't they just don't know, uh. And

764
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 1: if they don't know the whole story, they're gonna fill

765
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: in the blanks with their with their own ideas. Also,

766
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: this is a question I've always wanted to know the

767
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: answer to, and it doesn't it's not quite relevant to

768
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: this case. But why does so many people come forward

769
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: saying that they murdered the person in question if they're

770
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: not actually the murderer. Wow, I'll never understand that. I

771
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 1: don't have a psychology degree and I don't look me neither. Yeah,

772
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: and people do that. It will blow your mind how

773
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: many times people want to come forward to take take

774
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: the um doesn't take the blame. It doesn't make sense

775
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: to me either, It really doesn't. And we have to

776
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: work around that, and that's why we withhold information like

777
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: in in the situation where Gabby was strangled, that didn't

778
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: come out till later because they wanted to confirm that

779
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: tells me there's other injuries to her, so it was

780
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: probably a pretty bloody scene. Plus she wasn't found ntil

781
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: about three weeks after for her death, So there's decomposity

782
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: decomposition there, but um as far as withholding like how

783
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: somebody died or what instrument was used, because when all

784
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: these people say, hey, I did it, I did it

785
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: last Tuesday at two pm, Okay, well what did you

786
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: use to do this? When we get them into an

787
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 1: interrogation and if they can't identify the proper weapon, you

788
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: know they were bludgeoned with the trophy found on a shelf,

789
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,919
Speaker 1: We're not going to release that information. We're gonna say

790
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: that was blunt force trauma. That well, speaking of confessions,

791
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: can we also kind of bring up Robert a little

792
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: bit here? Um? Wait, Teddy one, can I ask one

793
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: final question about Gabby Petito because I'm I'm just dying

794
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: to know your take on this, Jeff, I'm sorry, just

795
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,919
Speaker 1: real fast. So we know the cause of death now

796
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: was homicide and the autopsy said that it was by strangulation,

797
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: and obviously signs are pointing to Brian Laundry and we're

798
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: waiting to hear about if there are any DNA samples.

799
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 1: But I'm very curious your thoughts about that. But I'm

800
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: more so curious to know why you think they said

801
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 1: that Brian is not connected to the deaths of the

802
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 1: two women who were also found murdered, but they won't

803
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: tell us why they know that, because there's patterns you

804
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,439
Speaker 1: look for. If somebody is killing people in one area

805
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,720
Speaker 1: and they killed three people, you're gonna see some common, uh,

806
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: common themes in there, some some very common things. If

807
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: it's strangulation by Gabby and then one person shot and

808
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: then another person stabbed, uh, it could be the same person.

809
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,720
Speaker 1: But you've got to look for different commonalities in these

810
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: in these things, and they're not seeing it. Um, they're

811
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: just not seeing it at all. And and I understand why.

812
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: I think it's coincidental that this was close to two

813
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: and timing and two together, but it's they're obviously seeing

814
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: something that disconnects them. So this does tie into the

815
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: Robert Durst case and the fact that do you think

816
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 1: that serial killers often killed their subjects in the same way? No,

817
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: I don't. As in the case of Robert Durst, Um,

818
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: well we don't know how it's how his wife was

819
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: killed because she hasn't been found. But you know he

820
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: in two thousand one when he shot somebody in self

821
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: defense and was acquitted of that and then the one

822
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: he was convicted of where execution style, shouting back the head,

823
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: those are common things and that's that's his go to.

824
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at him, he's not a

825
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: very strong man. It takes it takes some some strength

826
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: to tussle with somebody man or a woman and pulled

827
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: him down and strangle somebody. That takes That takes some

828
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: force and it takes some time. Shooting is quick. Stabbing

829
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: is very personal. Um strangulation is very personal. Shooting is

830
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: just I just this is the easiest way. Um. So yeah,

831
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, so, do you think that's why

832
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: they never found the head to Morris Black's body after

833
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: it was dismembered, because it would have shown evidence that

834
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: he was also possibly shot execution style. I do believe that, Yeah,

835
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: there was something I don't and I think it's just

836
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: again coincidental that they didn't find the head. He threw

837
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: the you know, chopped the body up through this. See

838
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: but uh, the head could have been picked apart by

839
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: sea life and they were able to get other stuff.

840
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: How do you go with self how do you go

841
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: with self defense when your reaction after doing that was

842
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 1: to chop them up, put them in bags and throw

843
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: them in the water. You know, I was talking to

844
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: one of my detective partners about this, and I don't

845
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: know that he had. He had to have an amazing

846
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: attorney and a dumb jury. I'm just saying, I'm putting

847
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:31,240
Speaker 1: it out there because that is it shows that there's

848
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: there's some problems with that man, and and the self

849
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: defense thing starts to go away when you cut up bodies.

850
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: So I don't know how not just not just that,

851
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: but how when you said on camera on tape there

852
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 1: it is you're caught, What the hell did I do?

853
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: How was that not enough to convict? Well, that's a

854
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 1: that helped in their prosecution, but they just needed more.

855
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: There was something they needed that was more. I'm not

856
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: familiar with exactly what went down on the trial of

857
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: what was presented as evidence. And you've got to remember

858
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: us as people, we get all this information fed to

859
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: us through through social media, through news, through through podcasts,

860
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: through everything we get, we get inundated with information and crimes.

861
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 1: Now the jury is not here, and all the information

862
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:24,240
Speaker 1: we hear there is arguments from prosecution and defense attorneys

863
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: constantly on what they're going to let in and what

864
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: they won't let in, so the juries don't hear everything.

865
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: We're here, where we're going? How did they not see

866
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 1: what we see because they didn't have all the stuff

867
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 1: put in front of them. Do you think that? How

868
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: often are the persons of interest involved in letters and

869
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: confessions such as such as Robert Durst? How often? Yeah? Like, well,

870
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: you know how he is is a part of writing

871
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 1: the confessions and he yeah, well O J did it too.

872
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: Uh so you know, I mean, it's it's I think

873
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 1: what I think again not having a psychology degree, but

874
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: what I think is is people have something inside of

875
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: them that they want to get this out. They want

876
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: to get the information out. Now, if they're a sociopath

877
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,760
Speaker 1: with those ecocentric qualities, they're gonna want to brag about

878
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: if they have some uh you know, empathy or or

879
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: remorse for what happened, they might do it because it's there.

880
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: It's cleansing there. Um that that's the only way I

881
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: can think of doing that. Some people, some people want

882
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: to taunt police too. You got to remember that that

883
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 1: people will do things because it's a game. It's a

884
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: captain mouse game, and they want to stay ahead. But

885
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 1: they want to tip them off, but not really um

886
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: that happened back in the the btcculents where they just

887
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 1: taunting the police with the UM information and letters and

888
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: all that. So, yeah, it's people do it. Do you

889
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,359
Speaker 1: think they want to be caught? Do you think they

890
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: want to push the limit to see how far they

891
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: can go, but that they ultimately do want to be

892
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: caught or not caught. I think they ultimately don't want

893
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: to be caught, but I think they want to push

894
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 1: the limit. They want to push the envelope. They want

895
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 1: the attention, right, it's exciting and they're getting attention, yes,

896
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: and adrenaline rush absolutely, And these people that are killing

897
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: more than one person typically they get some type of

898
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 1: a rush off them. That's the reason they're doing And

899
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: I mean this kind of ties into all three of

900
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: the cases that we talked about takes. We also talked

901
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 1: about the peanut butter sandwich spies. Do you think that

902
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,280
Speaker 1: TVs and TV and media and all of this helps

903
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:41,879
Speaker 1: criminals become better criminals? No? I don't because I think

904
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,839
Speaker 1: TV and and stuff they got it wrong. You know

905
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: they they it's you know, they're trying to entertain you.

906
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: So if you were to follow just a case without

907
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: a TV show like what they're talking ABO. Let's say,

908
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 1: well in order for example, Uh, if you would actually

909
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: see really how the case went down, you fall asleep

910
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 1: halfway through because there's it's really not that exciting, so

911
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: they got to add stuff. So no, do I think

912
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 1: it helps people be better criminals. I think it helps

913
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: law enforcement because they're gonna do stupid things because they

914
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,479
Speaker 1: saw it on TV and it's going to get off

915
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 1: right or just me, I do stupid things because I

916
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: saw it on TV. So Jeff, I I know that

917
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 1: Robert Durst broke his parole and went back to Galveston,

918
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 1: Texas to the scene of the crime, and that often

919
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: people do go back to the scene of the crime.

920
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,919
Speaker 1: Why that is uh that that's something that's been done

921
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: in FBI profiling for many many years. Uh, we as

922
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 1: as as police officers and when I was a police

923
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 1: officer and detective. Anytime there was a crime scene, what

924
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: you want to do is you want to capture on

925
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: video or pictures of the crowd standing around, because a

926
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: lot of times your suspect is in that crowd. In

927
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: the case I'm working right now, we have hundreds of

928
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: volunteers come out on weekends to search the desert. So,

929
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: but we make them sign in through a through a website,

930
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,720
Speaker 1: so I have everybody's information, their vehicle, that all that stuff.

931
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: So I'm always going through and I start running backgrounds

932
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: on people. So it is really common, really really common

933
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: for people to return to the scene of the crime,

934
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 1: the criminal, the suspects. That's that's just been going on. Uh,

935
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 1: it's they want to see what they did, and sometimes

936
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 1: they want to they want to be involved in the

937
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 1: investigation because they want to see where it's going if

938
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 1: they're gonna get caught, or to hide evidence that they

939
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: need to someone's turned volunteer and other than lawyers, what

940
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: other resources are available to a serial killer or anybody

941
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: that's involved in crime that has has a lot of

942
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 1: money versus somebody that doesn't, you mean like to get

943
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: them off. Well, shoot money. There's a lot of celebrities

944
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,919
Speaker 1: that have committed some crimes that, um, we've never heard

945
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 1: because money has been able to give their way through it.

946
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: I'm not saying the system is corrupt, saying that some

947
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,919
Speaker 1: of the places can be bought. Uh, I haven't seen

948
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: it in my jurisdiction. But but usually the better the

949
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: attorney to fight against a defense lawyer or a public

950
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: defender or something like that. The better the prosecutor. I've

951
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: seen both. I've seen defense attorneys that are that that

952
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for and they

953
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: go up against the prosecutor. They make prosecutor look bad

954
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 1: and they usually will win the case because of how

955
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: they presented in the case. So other than lawyers, it's

956
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: just it could be just resources to to help them

957
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: get what they need, what the what that lawyer needs

958
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 1: to do things. Because that lawyer is gonna hire investigating.

959
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 1: The investigator is going to go out, and it depends

960
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,839
Speaker 1: on if he's an investigator that wants to do good

961
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: or wants to do bad. He can go out. He

962
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: can screw up a crimacyne he can screw up the

963
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: investor gian he can he can take police off of it,

964
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: or he can actually work through it and be possible.

965
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,240
Speaker 1: A lot to think about. It's a lot to think about.

966
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today. Well, you

967
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: promise you'll come back with us. I promise I will.

968
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: I want to let's do this, okay, Jeff, I'll text

969
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: you from my burner phone when we need you do it,

970
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: do it when I when I get that, oh there

971
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: is We need you all the time. Never leave us, no,

972
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 1: please please have me back. I'm excited for this. We

973
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: will and we know you'll return to the scene of

974
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: the crime. Jeff. I always do, always do. I'm always

975
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: one step ahead though. Terrifying and amazing. Thank you so

976
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: much for joining us today, Jeff. We love you very much.

977
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: Thank you, guys, thank you for your insight. Bye. I'll

978
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. We'll see you again. Bye. Thank you, Jeff.

979
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 1: And I think it's time to go to break a right, guys,

980
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: I think we can all use a break. Well, yeah,

981
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: we'll be back in just a few moments. Well, guys,

982
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 1: that was so fun with Jeff. Please keep tuning in,

983
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 1: keep sending us any questions or theories that you have. Leah, Okay,

984
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: just start asking everybody what their thoughts are, because you

985
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: and I are going to go back and forth and

986
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: we don't need Dmitri's opinion on where he thinks Cathy is.

987
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: I've been sending it already, Dmitri. No one has asked

988
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: you to speak, but if you if you'd like to

989
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: reach out to us on Instagram. Also our instagram is

990
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: Real Time Crime Pod and if you go to either

991
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: me or Teddy's instagrams, we both have it linked in

992
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: our bios. Tell us what your theories are on where

993
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: Brian Laundry is d M. We will discuss this. Do

994
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 1: you think Robert Durst committed all three murders? Where do

995
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: you think Kathy Durst is Teddy? Do you have any

996
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 1: bone chilling questions? Yeah? I mean do you have a

997
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: peanut allergy? How would you slip spy secrets? Would it

998
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: be in a sneaker? In a gum wrapper? Would it be?

999
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 1: Would it be? I mean, here's the thing, I don't

1000
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: even know how to get something out of my computer

1001
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 1: to slip it to somebody. I need all of the

1002
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: tips and send us all of the MFL. I would

1003
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: be the worst spy because I have this habit of

1004
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: forgetting where I put everything. I lose literally everything. I

1005
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: lost my dignity years ago. Haven't been able to find

1006
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: it since, but I did notice that. But either way, guys,

1007
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: send us all the information, send us all of your thoughts, questions,

1008
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: any crimes you want us to investigate. Also, please send

1009
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: us your thoughts because if not, we'll never stop talking

1010
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: m M. But also if one wants to come over

1011
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: to my apartment and find where I put that three

1012
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 1: thousand dollars cash, I will give it all to you.

1013
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 1: I just don't know where I put it. You're inviting

1014
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: people to your home on a crime podcast. Not a

1015
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 1: good idea. Okay, let me let me go back in time. Um,

1016
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 1: if I could do one redo on the whole podcast,

1017
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 1: it would be no one come to my house. Um,

1018
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you guys next week. Talk to you

1019
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: all soon at Real Time Crime Pod. At Real Time

1020
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: Crime Pod, I've been Leo Lamar and Teddy Mellencamp and

1021
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 1: sometimes Dmitri and sometimes Dmitri when I'm allowed. Yeah, his

1022
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: first name actually is sometimes and his last name Dmitri. Sorry,

1023
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: just felt like all right, I hate myself. Bye bye.

1024
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: Robert would say bye bye bye bye, Oh my god.

1025
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: Real to Grod, I mean, is it actually a real

1026
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: time crime or solving anything or is that just the

1027
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 1: thing we say. It's a thing we say, got it? Okay?

1028
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: See an act week for more real time crime only

1029
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: on I Heart Radio.