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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Brady. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer

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Speaker 1: Paul Mission Controlled deconds. Most importantly, you are you, You

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Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know. Shout out to all our fellow conspiracy

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Speaker 1: realists in the northeast uh and in New Jersey, in

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Speaker 1: the southern part of New Jersey in particular. It is

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Speaker 1: time finally once again for a cryptic episode and full disclosure.

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Speaker 1: I am biased. This is for a long time, but

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite cryptid stories, and in fact we'll

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Speaker 1: see in this episode. This story is somewhat unique in

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Speaker 1: the world of crypto zoology for a number of reasons.

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Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people in the audience today,

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Speaker 1: you may have first heard of this cryptid in an

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Speaker 1: episode of The X Files, the fifth episode of season

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Speaker 1: one called Simply the Jersey Devil. Do you all remember

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Speaker 1: this one? I do, and I am not going to

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Speaker 1: spoil it for anyone who has not seen it. It's

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Speaker 1: first season. I think it's it's really early, right. Yes, Um,

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Speaker 1: it's a version of the Jersey Devil that's very different

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Speaker 1: than what we'll be talking about here. It turns out

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Speaker 1: with Joe Piscopo the whole time kind of we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the yes, the the real uh Jersey Devil. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we get a lot of correspondence with people

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Speaker 1: asking us to do more cryptid episodes, to do more

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Speaker 1: paranormal episodes, things like that. Thanks to everybody, by the way,

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Speaker 1: who wrote in about haunted objects. Uh, there were some.

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Speaker 1: There was some pretty bracing uh stories we received that

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Speaker 1: I may show up in a listener mail in a

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Speaker 1: few weeks, but for today, we wanted to dive into

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Speaker 1: some old school stuff. They don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: We're going to look at the purported origin of this

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Speaker 1: cryptod and some of the sightings, and then we're going

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Speaker 1: to ask some questions and see whether we can separate

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Speaker 1: fact from fiction. So what better way to start. Here

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Speaker 1: are the facts, And the first fact is if you

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Speaker 1: go to YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff, you can

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Speaker 1: watch our video called does a devil live in Jersey.

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Speaker 1: That's the first facts. Still a great title. It's still

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Speaker 1: a great title, and clearly the answer to that is yes,

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Speaker 1: I think many devils probably occupy the area known as

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Speaker 1: New Jersey. For the for the thumb ail of that

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Speaker 1: that episode, I literally put an extreme close up of

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Speaker 1: a horse's eye. As I remember that, I always assumed

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Speaker 1: it was a fox's eye. Mad. This is some real

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Speaker 1: behind the curtains info here. It's that had for a

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Speaker 1: long time a well, I I could say we, but

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Speaker 1: it was mainly you. Matt had this collection of just

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Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of close ups of different creatures eyes, um,

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Speaker 1: which was an idea. Oh my god, an I know

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Speaker 1: for another story we're gonna do. But and also you

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Speaker 1: never know when they all come in handy for like,

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Speaker 1: if you're trying to do a cryptic episode, just a

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Speaker 1: close up of an eye, like a Christmas card, perhaps

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Speaker 1: you know, a birthday or just you know, just a

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Speaker 1: business card, just hands and what afflects you give someone

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Speaker 1: your business card. There's nothing written on it, it's just

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Speaker 1: the close up of like a goat's eye. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: but there's a reason that I use a horse's eye

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Speaker 1: and we're going to tell you about it in just

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Speaker 1: the yes. Yeah, And if you are someone who lives

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Speaker 1: in southern New Jersey, or if you spent much time

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Speaker 1: in that area, then you already know why we're talking

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Speaker 1: about a horse's eye at the top here. You are

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Speaker 1: doubtlessly familiar with something called the Jersey Devil. True believers

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Speaker 1: who are around even today will tell you this creature

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Speaker 1: has been haunting the area and hunting in the area

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Speaker 1: for around three hundred years now, that is far beyond

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Speaker 1: the natural lifespan of most large animals. Since at least

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Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds, all sorts of people, including Napoleon's elder

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Speaker 1: brother Joseph Bonaparte, have claimed to have seen this mysterious

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Speaker 1: creature in this area through some set of circumstances. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Joseph was like the check of the Bonaparte family that

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Speaker 1: we don't really hear much from him, you know, like

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Speaker 1: the Billy was it? Billy Carter. Didn't Jimmy Carter have

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Speaker 1: a brother, No one knows, and I'm sure he did.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he did. Everyone's got one, unless you're an

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Speaker 1: only child like me, which you know could be a

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Speaker 1: good thing. Billy Carter, Yes, famous as a brewer of

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Speaker 1: alcoholic beverages. But here's the thing. When we talk about

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Speaker 1: the Jersey devil, first we have to talk about the

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Speaker 1: biggest badger in the bag, the elephant in the room.

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Speaker 1: It does not look especially intimidating if you look at

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Speaker 1: the most famous sketch of it, which comes from a

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Speaker 1: rash of sightings in nineteen o nine, which is part

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Speaker 1: of the big mystery here. Um, what you're seeing looks

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Speaker 1: as much like a political cartoon of the era as

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Speaker 1: it would a naturalist drawing, uh, drawing a creature that

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Speaker 1: actually exists. I mean this, Maybe we can take some

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Speaker 1: time before we go into the written descriptions. Maybe we

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Speaker 1: can just take some time and describe. Why don't you,

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Speaker 1: guys tell us what you're seeing or what you think

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Speaker 1: when you look at that nineteen o nine sketch, It's

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Speaker 1: I got pokemon of some sort. It's got hooves, it's

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Speaker 1: like a camel's neck and face, bat wings and little weird,

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Speaker 1: weedy kind of horse hoofs, and it's rearing up on

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Speaker 1: back skinny legs that kind of resemble a crane, but

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Speaker 1: it has hooves, and then it has sort of a

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Speaker 1: forkid tail like like like you might see a demon.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of a cliche demon image in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways. This it's not a political cartoon,

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Speaker 1: but it is a cartoon put out in a newspaper,

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Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Bulletin. And just for my take, I see

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Speaker 1: an emaciated horse, like that's too thin um with yeah,

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Speaker 1: wings and a tail. That's really what I'm seeing and

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Speaker 1: that's why I use that horse. Yeah, and the and

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Speaker 1: the four limbs. The two front limbs are t rex style,

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Speaker 1: so like this clearly would not walk well as a

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Speaker 1: quadruped and the Jersey Devils often described as bipedal. One

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Speaker 1: thing that I I love about this sketch, the reason

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Speaker 1: I want to touch, to have an excuse to talk

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Speaker 1: about it, is I wish more people would talk about

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Speaker 1: the sort of insusian facial expression of this creature. It

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Speaker 1: looks it looks like it's maybe a friendly It's got

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Speaker 1: a friendly labrador vibe, like it just hurt someone say,

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Speaker 1: walk ye got a bit of a come hither look,

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Speaker 1: perhaps there or inquisitive. You know, it's it's it's just

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Speaker 1: like it wants you. It wants to be your friend.

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Speaker 1: It's also eyeing the camera or the beholder like side

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Speaker 1: I right at the camera, slash the person illustrating it,

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Speaker 1: like pose like this like this walking and by the way,

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Speaker 1: I mean like the word you used, Matt Memacia, it

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Speaker 1: is absolutely right. But like there's no way those weird

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Speaker 1: little skinny legs would support the mass that is that

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Speaker 1: upper body and head. And it's also leaning forward, so

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Speaker 1: presumably those little wing they're gonna have to flap really

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Speaker 1: hard just to keep it balanced out. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: uh just just on the ground. Um, can we really

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Speaker 1: quickly just talk about that ridiculous Jersey devil drawing that's

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Speaker 1: in the X Files episode. I think it's like a

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Speaker 1: meme unto itself. It's like a weird like naked person.

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Speaker 1: It's a big foot with boobs. YEA, well no, no, no no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: not that one. No, there's there's just a really dumb

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Speaker 1: stick drawing of like a person with like long hair

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Speaker 1: and like arms kind of out with like no detail.

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Speaker 1: That's the one from the episode. Oh maybe I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: There's another one I'm seeing like in an a B

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Speaker 1: with a big foot with boobe. But the main one

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Speaker 1: that I remember from the episode is like really stupid looking,

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Speaker 1: like not scary at all, just kind of like pin

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Speaker 1: drawing of like a dude with his arms out and

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Speaker 1: like long hair. Well in that in that episode, you know,

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Speaker 1: which is clearly fiction. Right in that episode, what they're

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Speaker 1: attempting to do is make the real X Files explanation

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Speaker 1: for the Jersey Devil be something more human like possibly

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Speaker 1: a possibly a relic population of Neanderthal. I think is

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Speaker 1: the big is the big reveal, But that looks nothing

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Speaker 1: like the historical depictions of this devil. Uh. The specifics

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Speaker 1: of its appearance vary from one siding to the next,

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Speaker 1: which often happens in the world of cryptozoology. But it's

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Speaker 1: got some common themes, just like people might describe Bigfoot

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Speaker 1: differently but all agree it's tall and hairy. Uh. Most

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Speaker 1: people will describe the devil differently, but they all agree.

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Speaker 1: It's hooved, it's a biped it has wings. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: also say it has the body of something like a kangaroo,

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Speaker 1: sometimes as hornes or antlers. It has these little tiny arms,

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Speaker 1: so claude hands, and it's got that forked tail that

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Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier. Noal, It also is very fast. It

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Speaker 1: moves quickly, so it's tough to keep an eye on.

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Speaker 1: It is a local farm pet best terrorizing dogs and

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Speaker 1: chickens and other small animals, but not quite humans. I

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Speaker 1: think were a little bit above its predation class. The

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Speaker 1: big thing, the big final commonality that many witnesses describe

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Speaker 1: is a quote, blood curdling scream, Paul, could you hit

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Speaker 1: us with a wilhelm? Yeah, something like that. Yeah like that.

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Speaker 1: That's where they got the original recording of that and

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Speaker 1: blood curdling scream. There's so many interesting, you know, ways

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Speaker 1: to think about that and where we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: it more in the episode, Like what could that scream

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Speaker 1: actually be if it is a creature that they're hearing,

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Speaker 1: you know, it could be rabbits. I say, rabbits scream

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Speaker 1: when they die. It's like the only sound they make.

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Speaker 1: They're completely docile and innocuous, silent creatures until they die,

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden they let up the

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Speaker 1: most horrific blood curdling scream. Yeah, death screams. Um. People

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Speaker 1: don't talk about it too much, but and I think

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Speaker 1: that's because the majority of people in the West are

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Speaker 1: probably not killing the animals they eat these days. But yeah, animals,

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Speaker 1: animals do scream, and they know when they're dying. But

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Speaker 1: the the stories of the Jersey Devil, I've been around

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Speaker 1: for long, long, long time. That's something of interest in

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Speaker 1: fiction when when they explore the devil, but it's never

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Speaker 1: been photographed. It's been the subject of multiple books, films,

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Speaker 1: and of course makes it appearance in the X Files.

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Speaker 1: So where does this creature come from? When did humans

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Speaker 1: start learning about it? Well, if you look now, what

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Speaker 1: you're gonna see are a lot of references to a

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Speaker 1: legend dating back to the early seventeen hundreds and a

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Speaker 1: woman known commonly as Mother Leads, allegedly a Quaker and

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Speaker 1: the wife of a man named Daniel Leads. Some historians

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Speaker 1: today believe that Mother their Leads was a real historical

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Speaker 1: figure named Deborah Smith. She was a person in the

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Speaker 1: Quaker faith was known to live in the area at

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Speaker 1: the time. And so our story goes to a dark

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Speaker 1: and stormy night in seventeen thirty five, Mother Leads, already

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Speaker 1: a mother of twelve children, is giving birth to her

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Speaker 1: thirteen child in a place called a Stellville, which is

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Speaker 1: about thirty kilometers or a little bit less than nineteen

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Speaker 1: miles west of a town called Leeds Points isn't it

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Speaker 1: funny that we've only adopted the metric system in the

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Speaker 1: United States to measure bullet calibers and drugs. Sorry, there's

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Speaker 1: a hot take putting that out there real quick. Um No,

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Speaker 1: the this uh, this birth UM was rumored to have

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Speaker 1: had some black magic involved, essentially that this child. It's

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Speaker 1: funny the number thirteen um being significant in certain ways, uh,

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Speaker 1: having been sired by the devil himself, Yeah, rather than

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Speaker 1: Mr Leo to Daniel. And then there there's all kinds

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Speaker 1: of stuff that gets lumped into this story where there

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Speaker 1: are some tales that perhaps someone actually cursed the birth

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Speaker 1: or cursed the mother Mrs Leads like a clergyman, or

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Speaker 1: leads herself like curse the infant before like as it

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Speaker 1: was being born or just before the birth, some have reported,

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Speaker 1: or at least there are tales that the infant was

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Speaker 1: born and when it was born it was deformed in

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Speaker 1: some pretty terrible way. Yeah, which you know definitely happens

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Speaker 1: at this time in history as well as in the

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Speaker 1: modern day. UM children can be born with any any

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Speaker 1: number of things that might be considered minor to major abnormalities,

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Speaker 1: stuff like something's like a cleft, palates or you know,

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Speaker 1: actually a lot of children are born polydactyl. Did you

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Speaker 1: guys know that they have an extra an extra digit

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Speaker 1: or two on their hands and they're just removed at

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Speaker 1: birth and in many countries. So as you're listening now,

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Speaker 1: if you want to do this, yeah, no guarantees, but

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Speaker 1: take your hand and check for scars sort of. Um,

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Speaker 1: if you look at the side of your hand where

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Speaker 1: your pinkie is and you go a little south toward

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Speaker 1: that kind of plumper part of your palm along the edge,

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Speaker 1: there there is a small but not insignificant chance that

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Speaker 1: you may see a light vertical scar, says the case. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And you're in contact with your parents, feel free to

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Speaker 1: ask them you might have been a six fingered kid.

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Speaker 1: Tough questions. Yeah, yeah, well, and also the you know,

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Speaker 1: people died from fairly well now fairly curable things very often.

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Speaker 1: So having thirteen children is it's still a lot, but

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Speaker 1: you know, the the need to have more children existed

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Speaker 1: in that time. Yeah, because it's also a source of

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Speaker 1: free labor. Right. Also, consider the very high, unfortunately the

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Speaker 1: high probability of infant mortality when compared to the modern day.

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Speaker 1: So if you wanted to guarantee the likelihood of your

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Speaker 1: lineage continuing. Then you would want to have more than

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Speaker 1: one child. You want to have as many as economically

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Speaker 1: and physically feasible. But that's that's the story. We'll stay

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Speaker 1: in the legend mode here before we poke holes in anything.

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Speaker 1: So in some versions of the story, this kid is

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Speaker 1: born normal, healthy for all appearances, at least at first,

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Speaker 1: but then soon after its birth it changes form. It's morphine.

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Speaker 1: It's growing wings, it's sprouting hoofs and horns or antlers,

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Speaker 1: and it's something really interesting is going on with its head.

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Speaker 1: It's elongating, it's becoming more equine than human. And this creature,

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Speaker 1: this this child, whatever it may be, it's freaking out.

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Speaker 1: This is birth is one of the most traumatic things

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Speaker 1: and human being will experience. And immediately after this, apparently

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Speaker 1: old boy is experienced, young boy literally is experiencing a

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Speaker 1: second very traumatic event, transmographication. It flies into the air,

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Speaker 1: It lets out that soon to be infamous, blood curdling shrink,

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Speaker 1: and it either it kills a midwife, where it kills mother,

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Speaker 1: leads and zooms up the chimney and lights out for

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Speaker 1: the woods, never to return, but to be seen in

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Speaker 1: the in the Barons of New Jersey for centuries to come.

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Speaker 1: That's important to note. It is the Pine barrens, like

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Speaker 1: the legendary Pine bear bear Sopranos rears its head again,

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Speaker 1: so culturally important. Sorry, I'm a huge fan and my

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Speaker 1: yearly rewatched great episode. Um but yeah, the the it's

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Speaker 1: true that this is like a very kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: think about it now that you think in New Jersey

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Speaker 1: is being super industrialized and developed obviously, and but there

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Speaker 1: are still parts of it that are still pretty rural.

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Speaker 1: And this part is it remains that way, pretty rugged

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, great place for the mafia to

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Speaker 1: high bodies or you know for maybe someone or a

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Speaker 1: group of people who worshiped different things to be a

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Speaker 1: little more isolated in exactly if if that part of

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Speaker 1: the story was true, absolutely, if the if the occult

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Speaker 1: does have a piece here or a police here, and

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Speaker 1: and you know it's true. At this time, it was

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Speaker 1: also much easier to go off the grid because very

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Speaker 1: little of what we would understand as a grid existed.

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Speaker 1: You could keep secrets, but I would argue it would

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Speaker 1: be in order of magnitude more difficult to keep secrets

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Speaker 1: or aberrant behavior under wraps in a township. Because there

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Speaker 1: were so few people, they were almost all incredibly religious,

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Speaker 1: or we would consider them so to date. They were

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Speaker 1: in each other's business and they kind of had to

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Speaker 1: be to survive. But still, yeah, it was a very

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Speaker 1: different world and people were prime. The primary mode of

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Speaker 1: communication was oral communication, right word of mouth. And when

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Speaker 1: we are in a world where the primary currency of

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Speaker 1: communications oral storytelling, oral communication, that we see the telephone

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Speaker 1: game ramp up the full speed almost immediately. That's why

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Speaker 1: there's so many different versions, variations and additions to this story,

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Speaker 1: Like there's one, there's one really interesting one, uh that

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Speaker 1: doesn't get a lot of love in the modern day.

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Speaker 1: The ideas that upon the discovery of mother leads or

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Speaker 1: the midwife's body, a band of local clergy maybe, if

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Speaker 1: we're styling on it, one of the clergymen who cursed

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Speaker 1: the child, they get together, they posse up, and they

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Speaker 1: go into the woods, into the barons to hunt and

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Speaker 1: or exercise this creature. There's no report really on what

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Speaker 1: happened to that group, if they ever existed, except that

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Speaker 1: they were ultimately unsuccessful. This would be a fantastic horror film.

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Speaker 1: How has someone not made it yet, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. You've got all the highst elements, you got

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Speaker 1: the folklore, you got a monster, got a cult, potentially

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Speaker 1: like some kind of a secret cult, the Devil in

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Speaker 1: the Woods. Yeah, I feel like that movie has been made.

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Speaker 1: We've just never heard of it before or seen it

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Speaker 1: because in a slightly different configuration, you know, I mean this,

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Speaker 1: these are all kind of like classic tropes for for

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Speaker 1: B horror movies. Yeah. I'm just imagining Shutter just made

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Speaker 1: something and it went into Shutter and now it's gone.

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Speaker 1: That's yeah, So let us know if that let us

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Speaker 1: know if that's out there. I for one would love

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Speaker 1: to watch it, especially if it's really bad. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: just want to put this out there. If you go

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Speaker 1: to to Jersey History dot org, you can read uh

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Speaker 1: kind of a collection of everything we just mentioned. There

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Speaker 1: of different versions of the story if you're looking just

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Speaker 1: to get that the full back story. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: know a lot of at this point, a lot of

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Speaker 1: those stories are not traceable to a primary source because

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Speaker 1: they arose from this method of or from this time

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Speaker 1: in which people were swapping roomers basically and gathered around

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Speaker 1: the fireplace at night telling their kids. There would be

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Speaker 1: consequences to being bad. But that's that's again, that's a trope.

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Speaker 1: And uh, to steal an awesome pun from my friend Victor.

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Speaker 1: We're all about supporting the tropes here on stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Thank you for your service. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and and that's a yeah in credit where it's due. Um,

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Speaker 1: But sounds like some troped up charges to me. But okay,

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Speaker 1: let's yes, yes, let's see where we could go with

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Speaker 1: tropes today. So ordinarily, folks, and especially if you're a

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Speaker 1: fan of cryptids, you know this, this would be where

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Speaker 1: the trail goes cold. Cryptids that have specific legends and

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Speaker 1: origin points usually end up becoming commodified. They become draws

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Speaker 1: for tourists like Mothman right in West Virginia, or they

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Speaker 1: become the subject of tongue in cheek celebrations for the locals,

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Speaker 1: like Mothman in West Virginia. But the story of the

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Speaker 1: Jersey Devil is a little bit different. It's distinct because

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Speaker 1: we may know much more about the origin of this

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Speaker 1: cryptod and its story than legend would have you believe.

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Speaker 1: So today's episode, now we have all the facts down

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Speaker 1: about the legends, what is the truth about the Jersey

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Speaker 1: Devil will tell you after a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. So before we did, wait,

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Speaker 1: have you guys been to New Jersey? Oh gosh, I

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Speaker 1: feel bad. I know I've passed through um not like yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's it. Not not only No, I went to the

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Speaker 1: Yeah we we we we all went through Jersey together

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Speaker 1: in a car. What were we up there doing? What

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Speaker 1: were you doing? Guys? I'm completely blanking. I have a

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Speaker 1: distinct memory of stopping at Roy Rogers, at that big,

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Speaker 1: huge rest area on the New Jersey Turnpike. We we

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Speaker 1: went on a tour of the northeast in a Ford SUV. Right.

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Speaker 1: I remember this because I drove because my name was

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Speaker 1: on the thing for a couple of days and then

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Speaker 1: we gotta switch to everybody anyway. Yeah, we drove a

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Speaker 1: lot around that area. That's what it was. But I've

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Speaker 1: spent quite a bit of time in Elizabeth, New Jersey,

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Speaker 1: which is close to Jersey City, like the the the

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Speaker 1: it's close to New York, but um, never in the barrens. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: New Jersey is one of those states that has um

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Speaker 1: that can be a very different experience for people, depending

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Speaker 1: on what part of it they're in, right, Like many

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Speaker 1: people simply transit through New Jersey on the turnpike with

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Speaker 1: some of my my initial experiences there as well. But

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Speaker 1: not for nothing is it called the garden state there.

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Speaker 1: There is a lot of natural beauty there. And if

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Speaker 1: you were in the Jersey area before the early nineteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: especially you were there before nineteen o nine, which is important.

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Speaker 1: We'll explain why it's a key, or we'll get to

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Speaker 1: it in a moment. But if you were there in

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Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds, you've gone back in time. You

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Speaker 1: had the choice for some reason, you picked New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: You might be surprised to learn that you would almost

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Speaker 1: never hear the phrase Jersey devil. Instead, you would hear

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Speaker 1: about the exact same thing, but the exact same reports

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Speaker 1: of cloven hoofs in the snow and mysterious large, flying,

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Speaker 1: shrieking creatures. But this thing would be called the Leads

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Speaker 1: devil or the devil of Leads. It's focused on that

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Speaker 1: tail in the family. It's not it hasn't been exploded

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Speaker 1: out into this whole state's thing yet. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: So this would this Leads devil. The name would be

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Speaker 1: either in connection with a local farm owned by the

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Speaker 1: Leeds family or with a southern New Jersey town called

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Speaker 1: Leeds Point, which is still around today. If you if

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Speaker 1: you look at it, you can orient yourself to Atlantic City. UH.

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Speaker 1: Leads Point is best described as this small protuberance into

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Speaker 1: the swampy shallows of the Great Bay. It's just north

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Speaker 1: of Atlantic City. It's surrounded by the Pine Barons that

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Speaker 1: Matt mentioned earlier. The pine barons are a million acres

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Speaker 1: of very dense pine trees where you can very easily

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Speaker 1: become law store, very easily hide a body. You could.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you're a teenager you want to go

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Speaker 1: somewhere and like drink underage, smoke a little weed, pine

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00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: barrens might be the place. Just saying that it's easy

401
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Speaker 1: to not get caught. Yeah, it's also easy to get lost,

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00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: you know. I mean as his evidence by that, so

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Speaker 1: Brando's episode, So leave a bread crumb trailer or whatever.

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00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 1: But Leeds Point was named after a gentleman by the

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Speaker 1: name of Daniel Leeds who was the surveyor of the

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Speaker 1: land UH and he eventually attained ownership of it via

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Speaker 1: a grant. Daniel Leeds was an englishman who immigrated to

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Speaker 1: the US in sixteen seventy eight, spent most of his

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Speaker 1: adult life publishing The American Almanac. He created this publication

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Speaker 1: as well, um and it continued to print new issues

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Speaker 1: until his retirement in seventeen sixteen. Um And he then

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Speaker 1: passed the business down to his son's Just quick shout out,

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Speaker 1: he immigrated to the colonies. Excuse me, thank you, thank you. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he he immigrated to the colonies. He also, as we'll find,

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00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: had some political ambitions and opinions that would come back

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00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: to bite him. It makes sense that he would be

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Speaker 1: a person of note because he is publishing and therefore

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Speaker 1: controlling written communication. And I know I'm hammering home the

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Speaker 1: differences between the primacy of oral communication versus the rise

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Speaker 1: of commonly understood and disseminated written communication, but it's important

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Speaker 1: for stories like these. You're thinking, perhaps, oh, an almanac.

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Speaker 1: I've heard of that those were very popular in early

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Speaker 1: colonial history that later becomes American history. But I thought

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin wrote the Almanac. Who's this Daniel Leeds guy? Well,

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Speaker 1: there's kind of a coke Pepsi situation because Benjamin Franklin

426
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 1: wrote an almanac called poor Richard's Almanac, and in seventeen

427
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: thirty five he even gives Leads a shout out in

428
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: a very snooty way. He calls Leads quote the first

429
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: author south of New York for including that fact because

430
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: it is important. It does further confirmed that Daniel Leeds

431
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 1: was mentioned in the legend, is a real person and

432
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,959
Speaker 1: the next arc of the story. So like we have

433
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: that established, right, the next arc of the story in

434
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: the public sphere for the Jersey Devil really begins. In

435
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: nineteen o nine, there's a flurry of newspaper reports about

436
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: people who are certain they've cited the Devil and the

437
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 1: Jersey Devil. And these reports are interesting because they're not

438
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: reports that say some people have said they've seen something

439
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: weird in the sky. There's specific police officers sited, members

440
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: of fire departments, local political officials. They're all saying I

441
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: saw something it was wonky. Out of these dozens and

442
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of stories, they're all happening in the

443
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: same rough area, right this Pine Barren area, and they're

444
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: all happening around the same time. And this led people

445
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: like Brian Dunning over as skeptoid to say, you know,

446
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: based on just the physical writing about this at this time,

447
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: the New Jersey Devil may actually be one of the

448
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: world's most well documented cryptids. And of course, being well

449
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: documented and being real are not necessarily the same thing.

450
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: Like look at look at the extensive uh sophistication and

451
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: thoroughness of Wikipedia entries about things like the Transformers or

452
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: Star Wars. They're very well documented. They are also not real.

453
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: I feel like that's an approachable comparison. You know what

454
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: I mean? Matter you an optimist prime extremist? I know? No,

455
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: do you see a truck and think that's might be

456
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: an alien robot? Uh? You know it's really it's when

457
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: I see those jeeps, you know, the they look like

458
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: jeep wranglers, but they've also got a truck bed on them.

459
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: You ever seen those there? I would call those abominations,

460
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: is what I would call those. Well, when I see those,

461
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, that shouldn't be like that. Something's up with

462
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: this vehicle. Something very suss, very sess. It makes sense.

463
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: I I also, you know, there's something about automotive design

464
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: where you can clearly see the intention was to have

465
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: multiple things going on at once, and sometimes those become

466
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: the best argument for having a vehicle. That's just the

467
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: one thing. Yeah, just it's okay for a truck to

468
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: just be a truck. You're right, those in those in

469
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: peat cruisers, those are the only ones that I feel

470
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: are sauce. So I don't care for those cube things either.

471
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: Just for the record, a the psion, Yeah, man, no,

472
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: it was. It was a weird time for everybody, But

473
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: I wish everyone everyone the best. Tell us what tell

474
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: us the weirdest cars you've seen? Because they are They're

475
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: like cryptid autos, I guess. Uh. So there's a problem though,

476
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: there's a problem with this story, this Jersey devil story,

477
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: this legend. Even even after we accrue some basic historical facts,

478
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: it is an impossible story according to its own timeline. First,

479
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: Daniel Leeds real dude, almanac maker, local taste maker. He

480
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: passed his away in seventeen twenty, that's about fifteen years

481
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: before seventeen thirty five, when the devil was allegedly born. Secondly,

482
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: um as historians and researchers or want to do later humans,

483
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: it started prying into Daniel leeds love life and they

484
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: learned some stuff that applies to this legend. Yeah. First thing,

485
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: you should know is that he was with a woman

486
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: named Anne Stacy. She unfortunately died in while giving birth

487
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: to a child. Um, so he was married married to

488
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: this woman she died during childbirth. We can already see

489
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: that perhaps there's the seed of some part of this story,

490
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: just the act of childbirth and a death. After her

491
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: death and Stacy's he married a woman named Dorothy Young

492
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: and guess what m hm. They stayed married uh until

493
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: he passed away in seventy So there was what what

494
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: what was the woman's name? There was Ms Smith who

495
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: became Deborah Deborah Smith who became Mrs Leeds. Allegedly according

496
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: to the story, at least on paper, there's no record

497
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: of that person in connection with Mr Leeds. Right, So

498
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: that person did exist, but they were not They were

499
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: not getting down making the Jersey Devil with two backs,

500
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: at least her and Daniel Leeds. So there's another guy

501
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: Wanta introduced to this story much Mounch later. His name

502
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: is Professor Fred McFadden of Coppin State University over in Baltimore.

503
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: He did the work. He dug deep into everything you

504
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: could find about the life of Daniel Leeds and then

505
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: also into the earliest mentions of the devil in some

506
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: form in print, and some of McFadden's work was published

507
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: in a book in nineteen seventy three called South Jersey

508
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: Town's History and Legend, the kind of book that you

509
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: would see maybe for sale in the gift shop of

510
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: a regional bed and breakfast. And it turns out that

511
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: this date of seventeen thirty five, the people ascribed to

512
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: the legend comes from the earliest print reference to a

513
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: quote devil that McFadden could find. But the location of

514
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: this devil was given as Burlington. That's tricky because Linton

515
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: And at this time is the name of a whole

516
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: county or region, it's not the name of a specific town. Additionally,

517
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: there aren't any contemporary sources connecting Daniel Leads the man

518
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: or either of his wife to a devilish character of

519
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: any sort, any shape, form, or fashion. So even this

520
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: guy professional historian McFadden was only able to speculate and say, Okay,

521
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:33,239
Speaker 1: maybe this devil mentioned from seventy five and Burlington is

522
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: somehow a predecessor of the same creature that gets popularized

523
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: way later in nine. So the legend doesn't hold up

524
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: to the timeline or the historical facts as we know them,

525
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: which means we have to ask, where does the story

526
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: of the devil really begin? We have an answer. This

527
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: is not just the tease. We do kind of have

528
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: an answer. Will tell you after word from our sponsors,

529
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: we're back. Some of our more cynical folks in the

530
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: crowd today may have listened to the first part of

531
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: this episode and said, you know what, I'll tell you,

532
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: who needs fake monsters when we have real politicians. That

533
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: might seem a necessarily edgy, but it is a good point,

534
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: and it plays a huge role in this story. It

535
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: sure does. It turns out that the mystery of the

536
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: Jersey Devil could well lie in the murky world of propaganda,

537
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: or at the very least um smear campaigns bad pr

538
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: let's call it. Daniel Leeds was an editor and local politician,

539
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: which means, of course he had enemies. Anybody you know

540
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: that's that's a double threat. He had the power of

541
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: the press and he was a politician, so he had

542
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: many opportunities to make enemies. Most notoriously, leads fill the

543
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: position serving as deputy to one Edward Hind, the Lord

544
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: of Cornberry or Lord Cornberry. I love that. Um. He

545
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: He was the colonial governor of New York and New

546
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: Jersey under Queen Anne Um and in seventeen eight Lord

547
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: Cornberry was recalled to England because he was so incredibly unpopular,

548
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: and therefore leads By association was also unpopular, and he

549
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: withdrew from public office and never again served in politics. Yeah,

550
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: that's that's the thing. He's a British loyalist, which is

551
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: not a particularly popular political stance. Uh. And it's in

552
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: fact an increasingly unpopular one as we get closer and

553
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: closer to the Revolutionary War. He was then known, you know,

554
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: he had kind of a stigma as the deputy of

555
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: this disgraced governor, and so he became a scapegoat in

556
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. You know, this is this is

557
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: someone that you can publicly deride. In fact, people who

558
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: are supportive of the cause of independence can bond together

559
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: by getting by, you know, hanging out and talking trash

560
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,280
Speaker 1: about this guy. You know, if we can all agree

561
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: this one guy is a dick, then fine, let's have

562
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: another round of meat and talk revolution. Right, Um, let's

563
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: have some meat and talk leads, you know, the meads

564
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: on leads, So we don't know if they were drinking meat,

565
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: But we shouldn't let the facts get in the way

566
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: of a good story, which is sort of a thematic

567
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,720
Speaker 1: through line here. He was, you know, he was open

568
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 1: to ridicule. Add to this, it seems that several of

569
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: his real children were unfortunately born with mental disabilities. This

570
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: also made him an easy target for bad press, from

571
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: unscrupulous muck breakers and so on. So that's so this

572
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: becomes a political attack. Right, we're demonizing this guy's kids

573
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: were also attributing characteristics through to him through this story. Right,

574
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 1: It's quite possible, and this is speculative, but it's quite possible,

575
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: for instance, that the story of a child of the

576
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 1: Devil not being the child of Daniel Leads and the

577
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: inclusion of horns could have been a visual reference to

578
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: cuckolding for instance. Right, this is the kind of symbolic

579
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: language that would be used and is still used in

580
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: a different way in political cartoons and satire today. By

581
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: the time the story starts blowing up in the eighteen hundreds,

582
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: Leads is dead. He passed away, but his name is

583
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: still familiar with people who are alive, and his name

584
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: is intimately associated with British loyalists. So it's still a

585
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: great target for the press because when they read leads,

586
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: they immediately think of that, and then when they read Devil,

587
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,720
Speaker 1: then you know, it gets even juicy because you dropped

588
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: the D word. Fast forward nine nine. That deluge of

589
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: sightings hits the news, but by this point a lot

590
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: of people have lived and died. No one really cares

591
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 1: too much about leads. The US is already a thing

592
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: and has been for a while, so the connection lost

593
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: some of its power. The brand name, if we want

594
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: to think of it in that way, shifted from Leeds Devil,

595
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: which was no longer serving its purpose, to the Jersey Devil,

596
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: which now is something people can more clearly associate. Right,

597
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: So what gives with nineteen o nine, How did this

598
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: legend suddenly become a piece of newsworthy reporting for multiple outlets. Well,

599
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: there's a fellow named Joe Nicol who is an investigator

600
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: and writer of sorts, and according to him, it all

601
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: goes back to a fun little hoax, very clever hoax. Uh,

602
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: that was kind of building off of the work that

603
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: the muck rakes had done previously to Mr Leeds. And

604
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: we've got a little quote here in January nine, the

605
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: monster was revived by a hoax displayed in a private

606
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: museum in Philadelphia. The creature was actually a kangaroo outfitted

607
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 1: with fake wings affixed by a harness to make it

608
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: leap at spectators. When the curtain was drawn, a boy

609
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: hidden at the rear of the cage prodded the unfortunate

610
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: animal with a stick. So now it's it's almost like

611
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 1: a a circus side show or something. You see Ripley's

612
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: believe it or not, you know, the cur pay your

613
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: nickel or whatever. The curtains it probably wasn't nicolas, probably cheaper,

614
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: and the curtains pulled, and then all of a sudden,

615
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: blood curdling scream, flapping wings. Thank god it's in a cage.

616
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: Ha ha, that's great, let's get funnel cake or whatever. Well,

617
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,439
Speaker 1: it certainly explains the illustration of the Jersey Devil, don't

618
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: you think? Yes, I agree, it's uh. But this the

619
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: thing about this one is we don't know we know

620
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 1: what really happened. Nichols work is sound, but we don't

621
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: know the specific date of this exhibit. And it sounds

622
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: to me like this is only my opinion. It sounds

623
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: to me like the amount of trouble they went to

624
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: on this, getting a kangaroo body for one Uh. It

625
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: sounds like it was an attempt to capitalize on an

626
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: existing craze instead of one person singlehandedly trying to resurrect

627
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: this legend, which might be true because back to historian McFadden,

628
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: he found a report from an archivist in Gloucester County,

629
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: a guy named R. C arch At uh and R.

630
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: C arch At was able to track down a photograph

631
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 1: from that allegedly shows the cloven hoofs of the Jersey Devil,

632
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 1: like it walked up on someone's porch and it left

633
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 1: these hoof marks. This is the beginning of the period

634
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 1: when all these footprints started being reported in the press.

635
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: And that's that's the important thing, because remember at the

636
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: top we said, uh, there there have been many reports,

637
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: but there have been no photographs. There have been a

638
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 1: lot of photographs of proposed Jersey Devil hoofprints, but something

639
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: was definitely leaving footprints all around this area. As of

640
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: it appears that we will probably never know what's set

641
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: off this renewed interest in the Leeds Devil, but there

642
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 1: was definitely a political aspect to it. It is quite

643
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: possible that this thing was a campfire tale, or it

644
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: began as a political satire, or shortly after becoming a legend,

645
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: it uh became used as a political satire, and then

646
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 1: later people forgot it was satire, and then mass hysteria

647
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: kicked in and people were seeing things and you know,

648
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: equating it the first thing they would have thought of,

649
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 1: which is the tale of this Jersey Devil. But we're

650
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: talking cryptids, and we know that we we're talking cryptids.

651
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: Many many sightings of animals that are attributed to cryptids

652
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: later turn out to be misidentified natural creatures. So the

653
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: first question you have to always ask yourself when you

654
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: hear a story about a cryptod, is could it be

655
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: based on a known creature? That's especially important in the

656
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 1: story of the Jersey Devil. It's distinct because it has

657
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: basically an origin point that's somewhat you know, closer to

658
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,439
Speaker 1: the modern day. Uh. Secondly, it has a specific sort

659
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: of run of time in the news and in reporting.

660
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: But third it's pretty distinct because of the sheer amount

661
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: of time here. Given the length of time the story

662
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: has been around, the number of sightings across that period

663
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: of time. Again, a ballpark three hundred years. It's incredibly

664
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: unlikely that a single individual organism on land of this

665
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 1: size could be responsible for every single sighting, right yeah.

666
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 1: But but but at the same time, I mean, like

667
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's one of those fish out of water

668
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: type stories potentially where maybe you know, we know some lizards,

669
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: for example, live very very very long lives. Not to

670
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: mention things like Galapagos giant tortoises that can live up

671
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: to eighty five years, a hundred years sometimes, you know,

672
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: Asian elephants ben you pointed out, can live up to

673
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: eighty six years. But finding but not to mention though,

674
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: finding an animal that can live longer than a three

675
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: hundred years, it's a very tall order not to mention

676
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 1: one that would be able to survive in this climate.

677
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: The ones that we're talking about that would live this

678
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 1: long would not do well in the pine barrens of

679
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: New Jersey, right Yeah. Land animals especially, you know there

680
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 1: there are maritime animals that can live a very very

681
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: long time. And make a great point about the Galapagos

682
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: giant tortoise, but it does things actually fit the description,

683
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: and it's not built to live in the pine barrens. Guys,

684
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: it's it's a demon, it's immortal, you can live as

685
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: want to demon rules. Yeah, maybe that explains it, right,

686
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: So uh, demonology demon biology aside. Uh. If something like

687
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: this existed, if it were secular, it would almost certainly

688
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: mean there there would have to be some sort of

689
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: small breeding population, maybe one that's occasionally on the move,

690
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: which might help explain why these sightings seem to rise

691
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 1: and fall across time. If there is a mundane explanation

692
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: for the Jersey Devil, I I propose that we consider

693
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: our number one suspect, the Sandhill crane. Have included a

694
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: picture here just to get a look at it, all right,

695
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: What you're seeing, guys, If you look at this picture,

696
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: you're seeing two sandhill cranes chilling at a gas station,

697
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: no other context. I would run. I would run there.

698
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: They could be pretty tall, they're they're ungainly looking their

699
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: land dwelling birds. If you pull up that picture of

700
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: the Jersey Devil and you put it next to uh picture.

701
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: If you pull up that sketch rather of the Jersey

702
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,359
Speaker 1: Devil and you put it next to this photo of

703
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: the Sandhill crane, then you can see some interesting kind

704
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: of commonalities They both look like rather than gainly bipeds.

705
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: Um technically they both have wings. Although the cranes are folded,

706
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: they've got slightly along the beak could look like a

707
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: slightly elongated head. These things are also pretty pretty crazily big,

708
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: like they can be up to four ft six in

709
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: height and the wingspan can stretch to over seven feet.

710
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: So you would notice this thing if you're in the

711
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: woods and you see it taking off, or you see

712
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 1: it landing, or you know, you see it just chilling

713
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: like it's chilling outside of the gas station there. I

714
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: love that picture because I wonder what they're waiting on. Yeah, yeah,

715
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: somebody drops some garrito's. But it's it is really compelling

716
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 1: when you imagine being out in the woods, especially in night,

717
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: in that area, and you just caught a glimpse of something.

718
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: It's just far enough away. The light that you have

719
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: isn't quite reaching it. You've got some moonlight. You see

720
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: something with huge wings just take off and you you know,

721
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: if you just see it enough, but you can't make

722
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: out the exact dimensions, the exact shape. Uh. I can

723
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: imagine that sand hill crane being you know, misattributed to

724
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: something much more sinister. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And also some

725
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: populations of sand hill crane are migratory. So this is

726
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: just a thought experiment. I want to see if you

727
00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 1: guys think this is possible, plausible or total bunk. Sandhill cranes,

728
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: especially the migratory populations. In the winter, they'll band together

729
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: to form things called survival groups. And these are interesting

730
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: because it's not all related sandhill cranes. For for the

731
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: good of just a style on it. For the good

732
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 1: of the gander. Unrelated cranes will all gather together in

733
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: this mass, meaning that for a period of time, specific

734
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: areas of their range may suddenly become home to thousands

735
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: of cranes cough cough, excuse me, devil's cough cough at once.

736
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: So you could have grown up in this area seventeen

737
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred's early nineteen hundreds and then been walking around

738
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: your normal woods and saw something unusual. There's a crane

739
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: you misidentified, and you talked to someone else about it,

740
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 1: and they've also seen something. They're like, yeah, it's crazy.

741
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: There's this huge thing in the sky flying. I'm freaked

742
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 1: out there everywhere. Did you see It's in the paper.

743
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: The papers are writing about it, which makes it real.

744
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: The in the cranes could also be partially responsible for

745
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: all those nine pictures of hoofprints or footprints, right, because

746
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 1: as snow melts, you know this from our big Foot episodes,

747
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: As snow melts, any kind of footprint left by an

748
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: animal will become deformed. Often it can look bigger than

749
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: it was originally. Um And there's a little bit of

750
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: like circumstantial textual evidence. There's a guy named Alfred Heston

751
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: in six he was writing in Jersey Wagon John's Uh.

752
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 1: He said that he spoke with residents of Salem who

753
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: called the nineteen o nine creature that they also believed in.

754
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: They called it the Ostrich Devil. Interesting. Huh, Yeah, I'm not.

755
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: I'm not taking all these bird comparisons. These are the

756
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: creepiest ones to birds with with the are tall and powerful,

757
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: with skinny legs and dangly necks. No, thank you. You

758
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: gotta go for the neck and stay away from the legs.

759
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: Off there. But you can see how ostrich devil, you know,

760
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: would make sense if you were observing just a bunch

761
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: of these strange birds that you had never seen before.

762
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: They're terrifying. And there are other possible animal origins. There

763
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: are things like the common barn owl. There's a guy

764
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 1: named J. A. Singly who was writing with a delightfully

765
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: skeptical tone to the Dallaviston Daily News, and he said

766
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: the leads devil. He said, the leads devil that has

767
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: described as a bug a boo bird is probably just

768
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,959
Speaker 1: a barn owl. And we have we have a quote. Okay,

769
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to muster my way through this guy's

770
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: The bird has an uncanny appearance, generally agreed, and this,

771
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: aided by a lively imagination they are the stuff of nightmares,

772
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: has probably originated the blood curdling story of the leads devil. Dude, Look,

773
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: I know I play and I play up my fear

774
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: of birds, little bit um. I'm certainly not like totally

775
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: terrified of birds. I wouldn't necessarily run. But if a crane,

776
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: uh let let alone, a gaggle of cranes whatever you

777
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: call that, it should be a murder of cranes was

778
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: assembled or ostriches or something like that, and they were

779
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: coming at me, Yeah, my imagination would do serious tricks,

780
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: uh And I would absolutely run, and that would haunt

781
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: my dreams for the rest of my life. So I

782
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 1: think I'm with this, um this explanation. Guys, have we

783
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,399
Speaker 1: heard the Sandhill cranes sounds? Do we know what they

784
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: sound like? That it's blood curdling? I don't know. I'd

785
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: be interested to play something here and see if it

786
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: what what everyone thinks. Matt, I'm so glad you asked.

787
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 1: I proudly present what could be either the Sandhill crane

788
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: or the Jersey Devil or both. Listen along, folks, let

789
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 1: us know if you think this is blood curdly, can

790
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: you imagine a whole gaggle of those or just that,

791
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,280
Speaker 1: Like you're saying, you're describing large groups and that sound

792
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,919
Speaker 1: is just occurring, certainly with kurdel my blood just fine. Yeah,

793
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 1: I was gonna check out everybody's blood. That's a weird

794
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: sentence out of context, but yeah, you can see, like

795
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: at first, when it's just one, it doesn't sound too crazy,

796
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: but it would be unexpected. But then you hear multiple

797
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: things and you think you're all coming from the same creature,

798
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: then that's that's pretty that's pretty nuts. I do also

799
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: want to point out, um, for any anybody who's feeling

800
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: pedantic in the crowd state, Yes, uh, the group name

801
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: for a group of cranes is a sedge S E

802
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: D G E. Also, those group name things you always hear,

803
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: like a parliament of so and so, a gaggle and

804
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: and so on, those are not scientifically accepted, like actual

805
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: ornithologist and biologists get. I don't want to say weirdly offended,

806
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: but they're they're they're very not fun about it. And

807
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: I love those group names for things. I think they're delightful,

808
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: Like like a basket of kittens. Nobody ever uses that anymore.

809
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: I'm sorry explain, but if you've got multiple kittens together,

810
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:13,280
Speaker 1: it's a basket of kittens. That's okay. No, I'm making

811
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: it up, hoping that you're trying to make basket of

812
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 1: kittens happen. Matt, Yes, I applaud you as much more

813
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: wholesome than a burlap sack of kittens. Gosh, I'm glad

814
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: you didn't go that direction. But but okay, so that's

815
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: that's the call, right, And you can see if we

816
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: put ourselves back in the eighteen hundreds the early nineteen hundreds,

817
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 1: you can see how hearing that in an unexpected way

818
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: and then later seeing a large flying thing could very

819
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: well persuade you that the crazy campfire story you've heard

820
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 1: since you were a child might have some sand to it.

821
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: But the most interesting part of this line of thinking

822
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: is simply this. It doesn't solve the riddle. There's no

823
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: solid proof that dozens and dozens of people in nineteen

824
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: nine we're seeing cranes and barnells. And I would argue,

825
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 1: the further back you go in the history of a region, um,

826
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 1: the more familiar people tend to be with the natural

827
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: world and the flora and fauna, So it almost seems

828
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 1: less likely that after a certain amount of time living

829
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: in the area, people would still misidentify cranes. So we

830
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: don't We don't have solid proof. We also don't have

831
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: solid proof that they weren't all caught up in an

832
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: outbreak of hysteria. Yeah, no, there's no question about the

833
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: hysteria angle. And also, let let's not forget I mean,

834
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: the fear of Satan, you know, the fear of the

835
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: devil itself is something we haven't mentioned specifically, or at

836
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: least a bunch, but that was very, very real, and

837
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: these were people. It reminds me of the movie The Witch,

838
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,439
Speaker 1: you know, where people are settling you know, a very

839
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 1: hostile environment, and there's a lot of isolation, you know,

840
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: especially out in the woods in these pine barren areas,

841
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: and these are folks who often come from kind of

842
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: puritanical backgrounds, so it's very easy for this hysteria or

843
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: this like you know, satanic panic to kind of set in,

844
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,720
Speaker 1: and the idea of there being some sort of demon

845
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: out in the woods could become very very real. Yeah. Absolutely,

846
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,760
Speaker 1: I think that that's a very good point. Belief plays

847
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: such a huge role in human psychology, and it affects

848
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: the world around us the same way that a r

849
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: technology affects your perception of the world, I would argue,

850
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: and if you take each of these alleged sightings one

851
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: by one by one, there's always still this tantalizing measure

852
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: of ambiguity. You look at one sighting and you say, well, yeah,

853
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 1: that could have been an owl. Look at another and

854
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: you say, well, yeah, that could have been a creating.

855
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 1: And in some cases, honestly, it could have been some

856
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: poor schmuck's friends pranking them, you know what I mean.

857
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 1: They're they're like, oh, man, Danelle is on acid again today,

858
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: Let's get out the suit. I don't know I don't

859
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: know if, but I love that idea. There's a group

860
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: of people with a wingsuit and a friend that always

861
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: does ask that or you know, or something, and then

862
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: it never learns. He never learns. Uh So maybe that's

863
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 1: maybe that's where we leave it. Because at this point

864
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: one thing is for sure. Whatever the devil is, whatever

865
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,799
Speaker 1: it was, humans have had a long long time to

866
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: figure it out, and centuries have past without anyone managing

867
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: to conclusively solve the mystery. I believe that we have

868
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 1: some very good, mundane explanations or possibilities. Not at all

869
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 1: all are proven or even provable at this point in time.

870
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 1: But that leads I don't know, but you, guys, that

871
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: leads me to think has the human species collectively decided

872
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 1: not to let the facts get in the way of

873
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: a good story. If so, I'd just like to say,

874
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 1: classic human It's the sort of thing the species loves

875
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: to do, and humans have never needed help from a

876
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: devil to do it? Here here wow? Okay, Well, I

877
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 1: don't know about you guys. Um have you have you

878
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: ever seen a crane in Atlanta? Yes? Yes, all one

879
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: um recently got recently time? What is it? Uh? There,

880
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: there's like a little pond across from Pont City Market

881
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 1: or offices. It's it's more than a little pond. It's

882
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: like a whole cute little area with like, you know,

883
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 1: like a walking trail. And I saw a crane I'm

884
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: like hanging out perching on like a guardrail. Uh, And

885
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: in that area as herons. That's probably what it was.

886
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 1: That's probably what it was. And they look real weird

887
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: when they fly because when they're when they're getting super

888
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: into it, they lean back their necks and fold them down.

889
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: It looks like they have this weird double chin. That's

890
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 1: that's one of them. I think I may have told

891
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 1: the story on the show before. But in our backyard

892
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 1: there's a very small creek. It's not really creek, it's

893
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 1: just where the runoff water goes, got a place to go.

894
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: And every once in a while back there you'll hear

895
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: some weird sounds. We hear some owls near our house

896
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,800
Speaker 1: every once in a while. But not long ago, Diana

897
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 1: was in the backyard and something giant. It was in

898
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: the middle of the night and dark, something giant spread

899
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: its wings. She could tell it was wings, but she

900
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: couldn't see it really well. And it just flew up

901
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: into the air, through the through the trees, and a

902
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 1: couple of couple of days later it was this. It

903
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: was a heron. It's a blue heron. I think for great.

904
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: It looked great. Devil, I'm calling it devil. No, I

905
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: reversed my entire opinion. It's the Devil. It's moving in

906
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: non linear time. It's gonna come after it. This is

907
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: gonna be the episode that breaks the show. This is

908
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: the time that we will finally have consequences. It will

909
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 1: be the Jersey Devil that did us in. It's been

910
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: a wild ride, fellas. Uh, there's absolute pleasure to work

911
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 1: with you. Um. If you feel like leaving, uh, comment

912
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 1: at our memorial after the Devil finishes its work with us. Uh.

913
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: There are any number of ways you can contact us

914
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: if one or all of us somehow survives. Of course,

915
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 1: we'll keep doing episodes, and to do that we'd love

916
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: some help from you, So please give us your suggestions.

917
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: Your hang on this door randomly opened. Keep this part in, Paul,

918
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: I don't know why the store opened. Cranes are pretty smart, though.

919
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 1: They can open doors with their creepy gangly necks and

920
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: pokey beaks. Really, I don't know. I guess it depends

921
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: on the handle the losser. Actors can in the movie

922
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 1: Jurassic Park descended are sorry, I don't know what happened. Oh,

923
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: we know, Ben, We just discussed that intimately. Okay, uh,

924
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 1: and let it. Let us know if there are any

925
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: cryptic stories from your neck of the woods that you

926
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: feel have some sort of explanation, especially if there is

927
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: an actual undocumented animal out there, we'd love to hear

928
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: from you. We try to make it easy to find

929
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: us online. That's right. We're conspiracy stuff on Twitter and Facebook,

930
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. You can also give us

931
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 1: a telephone call tell us about that, Matt. That's right.

932
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: We have a number. It is one eight three three

933
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: st d w y t K. When you first call

934
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: in after you hear Ben's lovely tones telling you to

935
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,919
Speaker 1: leave a message, please state your name or that which

936
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: you would like for us to call you. It's a

937
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: weird way to put it, whatever name you want to

938
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: use when we refer to you. Then leave your message.

939
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: You've got three minutes. If you'd like to say something

940
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: directly to us or the producers, please leave that at

941
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 1: the end of your three minutes or you know the

942
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: end of your message. If you've got a story to

943
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 1: tell us that's a little more lengthy, or maybe needs

944
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: a couple of links or some pictures, we highly recommend

945
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 1: that you reach out to us a slightly different way,

946
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 1: the old fashioned way. You can always reach us at

947
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 1: our email. We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com.

948
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

949
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

950
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

951
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.