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Speaker 1: Taking a Walk one guitarist. I talked to a guy

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Speaker 1: named Fred Taka who's in Little Feet. He played with

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Speaker 1: Dylan for a few years, and he said they rehearsed

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Speaker 1: extensively the band, but they would rehearse covers of songs

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Speaker 1: they were not going to play live, so the whole

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Speaker 1: band would be doing Sweet Caro line with Dylan or't

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Speaker 1: be doing night Moves. By Bob Seeker.

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Speaker 2: This is the Taking a Walk podcast hosted by Buzz Night.

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Speaker 2: Music history on foot and Today Buzz speaks with author

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Speaker 2: Ray Paget. Ray's writing has appeared in The New Yorker, Spin, Vice,

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Speaker 2: and Mojo. You may have heard him on NPR and

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Speaker 2: seen his interview in the Wall Street Journal. His book

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Speaker 2: is called Pledging My Time Conversations with Bob Dylan. Band

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Speaker 2: members joined Buzz as he delves into the world of

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Speaker 2: one of our generation's greatest musicians, Bob Dylan. Ray Paget

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Speaker 2: joins Buzz Night next on Taking a Walk.

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Speaker 3: Well, thanks Ray Paget for being on taking a Walk

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Speaker 3: in my backyard. So we're doing sort of the virtual

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Speaker 3: taking a Walk episode. My dogs are quiet right now.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully there won't be the fourth Amazon delivery of the

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Speaker 3: day and incite them. Where are you right now?

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Speaker 1: I am in a coworking space in Burlington, Vermont. I

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Speaker 1: also have a couple of dogs, and they tend to

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Speaker 1: interrupt anything I want to do when I'm home, which

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Speaker 1: sounds like for this wouldn't be a problem, but some

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Speaker 1: other people they get real barkie when someone walks by

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Speaker 1: the front door.

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Speaker 3: Well, we'll hope for the best here. But congratulations on

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Speaker 3: the book. Pledging my time conversations with Bob Dylan band members,

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Speaker 3: and who are some of your favorites that you interviewed

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Speaker 3: for the book. I've got some that I want to mention,

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Speaker 3: but I'd like to hear from you first.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I mean it's hard to pick. I loved talking

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Speaker 1: to like you know, I love Tom Petting the Heartbreakers,

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Speaker 1: and I love when they backed up Dylan. Talking to

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Speaker 1: benmont Hensch and Stan Lynch, both of whom were in

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Speaker 1: The Heartbreakers, was great. I love talking to Larry Campbell,

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Speaker 1: who is Dylan's guitarist for seven years and just had

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Speaker 1: all sorts of great stories. And some of the early

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Speaker 1: guys too, Ramblin, Jack Elliott, and Paul from Peter, Paul

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Speaker 1: and Mary. I mean getting windows into the like Greenwich

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Speaker 1: Village era was wonderful.

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Speaker 3: Did you find that there was in some cases a

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Speaker 3: code of conduct where if you found some band members

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Speaker 3: that you were intrigued for this project to talk to,

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Speaker 3: they wouldn't speak to you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh absolutely, I mean it's not it's nothing official.

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Speaker 1: But you know, Bob Dylan is a famously private person,

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Speaker 1: and the people who have worked with him sort of

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Speaker 1: take their cues from that. You know, in many cases

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Speaker 1: it took me months, maybe even over a year to

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Speaker 1: convince people to talk with me, And in many cases

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Speaker 1: they've never really spoken about their time with Dylan before,

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Speaker 1: so this is really the first time that they're telling

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Speaker 1: these stories.

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Speaker 3: So there's a lot in Bob's playbook that comes in

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Speaker 3: and out here in terms of the storyline. One of

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Speaker 3: my favorites is certainly how he would, you know, launch

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Speaker 3: into a song in a concert that the band had

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Speaker 3: never rehearsed. Can you talk about that experience.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's something that happens in a lot of these interviews.

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Speaker 1: People mentioned that then he will just yell out some song,

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Speaker 1: maybe an obscure song, maybe even a famous song. You know,

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Speaker 1: that happened with Tom Petty speaking of which he just

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Speaker 1: they never rehearsed Lay Lady Lay. I mean, a famous song,

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Speaker 1: but they had never rehearsed it or played it live.

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Speaker 1: And one day they're on front of twenty thousand people

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Speaker 1: just playing Lay Lady Lay or another story. You know.

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Speaker 1: Right when they're like standing about to go on stage,

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Speaker 1: Bob turns to one of the band memories, like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: what song do you want to play tonight? And he

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Speaker 1: picks tomorrow is a long time they fairly obscure, you know,

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Speaker 1: early song that again they never played, but they just

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Speaker 1: sort of went up and winged it. And that's a

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Speaker 1: lot of what playing with Dylan is like.

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Speaker 3: But he has this expectation where he's out to make

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Speaker 3: sure that the band keeps the songs fresh and always

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Speaker 3: with some new little twist.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's exactly right. He doesn't want to just sort

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Speaker 1: of be a Greatest Hits machine, cranking out the same

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Speaker 1: songs the same way every night. You know. One guitarist

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Speaker 1: I talked to a guy named Fred Takett who's in

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Speaker 1: Little Feet. He played with Dylan for a few years,

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Speaker 1: and he said they rehearsed extensively the band, but they

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Speaker 1: would rehearse covers of songs they were not going to

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Speaker 1: play live, so the whole band would be doing Sweet

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Speaker 1: Caro Line with Dylan, orud be doing night Moves by

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Speaker 1: Bob Seeker. And he says, basically the reason was Bob

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Speaker 1: Dylan wanted his band really good, really rehearsed, really able

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Speaker 1: to play together, but he did not want people just

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Speaker 1: getting wrote versions of his songs that were going to

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Speaker 1: sound the same every night. So yeah, they'd rehearse a

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Speaker 1: totally different set of material and then they'd go out

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Speaker 1: and tour playing Dylan songs they had not rehearsed.

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Speaker 3: Do you feel that a lot of these musicians ever

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Speaker 3: felt like they really knew Bob?

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Speaker 1: It varies fit pretty widely. I mean some people definitely

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Speaker 1: would say even though we worked together for five years,

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Speaker 1: I never really knew him. And other people would say

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Speaker 1: he's just a guy, Like you know, I was intimidated

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Speaker 1: at first, but then we just hung out backstage and

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Speaker 1: we went out swimming, and we had all these high

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Speaker 1: jinks and stuff, and he's just like, once you get

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Speaker 1: into that inner circle, he's just like another person. And

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Speaker 1: I related to him, you know, as a friend. So

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Speaker 1: it really seems like a very full spectrum.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you saw the the making of the We

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Speaker 3: Are the World documentary, didn't you. Yeah. Sure, I mean

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Speaker 3: doesn't that give you like a really cool window inside

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Speaker 3: of Bob as well?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's a funny clip that you see, I

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Speaker 1: think from that documentary that you can find on YouTube

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Speaker 1: where it's basically Stevie Wonder is teaching Bob Dylan how

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Speaker 1: to sing his part like Dylan and they're sort of

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Speaker 1: at the piano working it out. I mean, it's such

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Speaker 1: a it's sort of Bob outside of his environment. Like

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Speaker 1: you know, normally he likes hanging out with his band,

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Speaker 1: who are mostly not extremely not famous people. So in

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Speaker 1: him this sort of celebrity all star setting, you know,

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Speaker 1: half the time he kind of looks like deer in

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Speaker 1: the headlights.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he didn't look like he was having fun on

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Speaker 3: a lot of occasions. But on the other hand, there

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Speaker 3: was certainly smiles and you know, joyful looks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's like I say, it's a funny mix.

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Speaker 1: It's these sort of you know, eighty stars that he

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Speaker 1: as far as far as I know, didn't you know, know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he's buddies with Holland Oates Er, Cindy Lauper.

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Speaker 1: But then you know, you have these other people from

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Speaker 1: the sixties who you know he does go back with,

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Speaker 1: you know, Smokey Robinson or something like that, or Stevie Wonder.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, going back to your interviews with the Well in

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Speaker 3: particular Stan Lynch, I love that quote from Bob about

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Speaker 3: Tom Petty. Tom was at the top of his game

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Speaker 3: and I was at the bottom. And did you find

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Speaker 3: that the self deprecating side of Bob shows up a lot?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Sometimes. I mean he he's very hard on him

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Speaker 1: He can be very hard on himself, and he can

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Speaker 1: be very hard on the musicians. You know, a number

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Speaker 1: of them sort of said that playing with him was

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Speaker 1: both the most invigorating part of their entire careers but

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Speaker 1: also the most exhausting. I mean, he's not going to

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Speaker 1: give them clear instructions on what he wants from them,

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Speaker 1: and if they do something he doesn't seem to like,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're going to get glared at. So it

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Speaker 1: could be, you know, they spoke of him with reverence,

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Speaker 1: but it could be a pretty difficult, difficult gig because

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Speaker 1: he's hard on everyone.

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Speaker 3: And I love the story on how Bob got dragged

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Speaker 3: to see Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davis Junior and then

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Speaker 3: passed on meeting Frank.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was another stand Lynch one. This is literally

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Speaker 1: the first day of rehearsals, like they could now we're

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Speaker 1: in and stand says, hey, I gotta go, Like what

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Speaker 1: the hell? But anyway, he's going to see Frank Sinatra

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Speaker 1: Sammy Davis. Bob loves them, so he says, can I

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Speaker 1: tag along? They get there, someone you know, they're just

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Speaker 1: remembers of the audience, but someone on Frank's staff or

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Speaker 1: whoever sees them says, hey, come backstage, So they go backstage.

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Speaker 1: Stan Lynch is over the moon. He's going to meet

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Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra. They get to Frank stage door and Bob's like,

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Speaker 1: and never mind, let's get out of here. He just leaves.

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Speaker 3: There's a part of Bob that likes messing with people,

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Speaker 3: don't you think absolutely that.

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Speaker 1: There are various stories like that come up all the time,

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Speaker 1: and I think that might be one of them.

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Speaker 3: I had an encounter with him and I was thinking

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Speaker 3: about this preparing for the interview where it was around

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Speaker 3: the time he was working with Daniel Lennoi, and Bob

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Speaker 3: acted like he couldn't pronounce Daniel's last name, and I

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Speaker 3: started thinking about it, going he was messing with us.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's funny, And yes, probably probably true. Because

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Speaker 1: he worked with Glenn Waff for several albums, he certainly

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Speaker 1: knew how to pronounce his name.

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Speaker 3: What has been your personal experience, either the concerts you've

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Speaker 3: seen of Bob's or your opportunities that you've had to

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Speaker 3: meet him?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've I've never met him. He's someone

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Speaker 1: who these days especially, I mean pretty much know and

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Speaker 1: meets him. He's and he's funny. It's a funny combination.

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Speaker 1: On the one end, he's extremely reclusive. He doesn't really

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Speaker 1: give interviews anymore, he doesn't, you know, meet people. On

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Speaker 1: the other hand, he tours constantly, so he's both reclusive

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Speaker 1: but also in front of audiences across the world, you know,

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Speaker 1: every night, you know, all year, every year. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of those, not that many, but

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Speaker 1: you know, I've seen a few dozen of those concerts.

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Speaker 1: And that's sort of how I became moved from a

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Speaker 1: casual fan to a super fan. Was just seeing how

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Speaker 1: he reinvents the songs in concert, and it's never the

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Speaker 1: same from Night to Night.

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Speaker 3: Did he make a public comment after Robbie Robertson's passing.

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Speaker 1: I was just wondering he did, Yeah, I don't have

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Speaker 1: it in front of me, but he said something nice

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 3: So if you had the opportunity to ask Bob a question,

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Speaker 3: what would you ask him? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Man, that would be one question. That's a tough one.

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Speaker 1: I mean, to some degree, i'd ask maybe why, how

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Speaker 1: he would explain him touring so much? The fact is,

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Speaker 1: the guy's got, you know, more money, even God, he

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Speaker 1: does not need to be hitting the road all year.

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Speaker 1: Every single year. He's literally it's been called the Never

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Speaker 1: Ending Tour. Since nineteen eighty eight, he basically has not

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Speaker 1: stopped touring. And it's just fascinating why he goes, not

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Speaker 1: just to New York and LA, but you know, to

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Speaker 1: some city you've never heard of, in Indiana or Iowa

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Speaker 1: or Arizona. You know, I'd ask him why, why he

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Speaker 1: wants to be on the road, Why he wants to

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Speaker 1: be playing concerts? Sort of that's his life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like he was profoundly impacted by his

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Speaker 3: work with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers and The Grateful Dead,

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Speaker 3: not only in his creative process, but also just the

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Speaker 3: road warrior aspect of things. What do you think of

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Speaker 3: that theory?

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Speaker 1: I think that's right. He actually writes about that in

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Speaker 1: Chronicles his book, and basically, especially with the Dead, he's

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Speaker 1: saying that, like, he went out with the Dead and

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Speaker 1: he was feeling really down, and Jerry Garcia especially is

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Speaker 1: really pushing him to play these songs he barely remembers

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Speaker 1: from the sixties and stuff, and it kind of got

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Speaker 1: him out of his funk. And I think it's notable

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Speaker 1: that even though those shows with the Dead are not

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Speaker 1: very highly regarded, that's the year before this so called

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Speaker 1: never ending tour starts, he does these shows the Dead.

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Speaker 1: Jerry Garcia really tries to drag him out of this

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Speaker 1: downward spiral he's in, and sort of he recommits himself

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Speaker 1: to the road to playing his catalog to you know,

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Speaker 1: digging up obscure songs, and basically he has been doing it,

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Speaker 1: other than a couple of years of the pandemic, every

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Speaker 1: single year ever since.

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Speaker 3: And wasn't that period around the time where he came

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Speaker 3: out of that real health.

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Speaker 1: Scare, Yeah, well that was yeah, that was in the

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Speaker 1: ninety seven, you know, Larry campbell Is was his horus then,

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Speaker 1: and I talked with Larry about it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: he was talking about you know, he had like just

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Speaker 1: joined the band. They played. I think, well, maybe one

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Speaker 1: tour together, and all of a sudden it happened while

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Speaker 1: on tour. Larry's I don't remember. I think in the

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Speaker 1: Midwest somewhere, there were some It was like spores from

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Speaker 1: goose droppings. I think of all things that if you

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Speaker 1: inhale them the wrong way, they can cause real health complications.

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Speaker 1: And it basically his heart, you know, he don't remember

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Speaker 1: the medical term, but his heart shut down, and Larry

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Speaker 1: was like, I just joined the band, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: and everyone thought maybe this was going to be it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, a couple months later, Bob was out

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Speaker 1: of the hospital feeling better and they hit the road again.

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Speaker 3: Well, you did a great job with pledging my time.

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Speaker 3: The interviews in there are tremendous. Are there any interviews

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Speaker 3: that you did? And then someone after the fact said, well,

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Speaker 3: I don't think I want that in there.

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Speaker 1: No, that never happened. It was you know, it took

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Speaker 1: a lot of work to get people to talk in

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Speaker 1: the first place. You know, no one wants to do

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Speaker 1: anything that they feel like is going to be violating

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Speaker 1: Bob's privacy.

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Speaker 3: Here is going to be you.

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Speaker 1: Know, gossipy or feel gotchey. But once people understood that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we were going to go deep. These are

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Speaker 1: going to be long conversations. I really knew the music,

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Speaker 1: I really knew my stuff. They were they were very open,

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Speaker 1: and we really really went into it.

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Speaker 3: Well, if you're a Dylan fan or even a casual fan,

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Speaker 3: you're gonna love it. Pledging my time conversations with Bob

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Speaker 3: Dylan band members Ray Paget. Thanks for being on the

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Speaker 3: Taking a Walk Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me Eral, I appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a

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Speaker 2: Walk Podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends

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Speaker 2: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking

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Speaker 2: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 2: and wherever you get your podcasts