1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio High 2 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: Family Secrets. Family. It's Danny back with a bonus episode. 3 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: I hope you're enjoying this special content we're creating as 4 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: we continue to be hard at work getting ready for 5 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: season four. It's been so great to be back in 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: the studio, well my basement, talking to my amazing season 7 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: four guests. When it comes to family secrets, there is 8 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: simply no shortage of remarkable stories and courageous, inspiring people 9 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: who share them. Our bonus episode today is a conversation 10 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: I recently had with the hosts of the popular Forever 11 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: thirty five podcast, Kate Spencer and Dorry Scheffrier. Forever thirty 12 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: five is a show focuses on all kinds of self care, 13 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: and Kate and Dory are honest, funny, and very ill. 14 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: I thought we'd be talking about self care in the 15 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: context of family secrets, but given the backdrop of the 16 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: extraordinary times we're all living through, we ended up focusing 17 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: much more on self care during this time of anxiety 18 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: and social isolation, which, come to think of it, pertains 19 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: to family secrets as well. Family secrets cause anxiety and 20 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: social isolation too, so there you have it. I hope 21 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: you enjoy and find this bonus episode helpful. So, Dory 22 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: and Kate, I'm so happy to be talking to you both, 23 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: and I'm wondering what your lives have been like since 24 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: we last spoke, because when we last spoke was at 25 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: the very start of the pandemic hitting the U. S. 26 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: We were originally supposed to get together outside by a 27 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: pool and a hotel in l A to record an 28 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: episode of Forever thirty five, and that feels like it's 29 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: a lifetime ago to me. Just the ability to do 30 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: that feels almost foreign at this point, isn't it. It's 31 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: amazing how fast that happens. Yeah, I and I think 32 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: that we were supposed to all meet up kind of 33 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: the weak things were really transitioning very rapidly in terms 34 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: of UM moving to social distancing and COVID cases increasing 35 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: in the United States, and so it all kind of 36 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: it all kind of happened very suddenly and still felt 37 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: kind of new, and and now I think we've both 38 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: definitely settled into UM. I think what a listener of 39 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: our show for over thirty five referred to as the 40 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: next normal, supposed to the new normal. I like that 41 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: because the new normal sort of trivializes it in a way, right, Yeah, 42 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: and it makes it harder to kind of. Um, I 43 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: think the idea of a new normal is a little daunting, 44 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: but the next normal feels like something we can kind 45 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: of step into. So what are your what are your 46 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: days like? Now? Are you you know? I think? I 47 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: mean I'm on the East Coast, and I think it's 48 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: amazing the way different parts of the country are in 49 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: different stages of either social distance or gathering right now. Um, 50 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: I saw that hair salons just opened in l A, 51 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: which probably got some people very excited. And here that 52 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: kind of thing has not been declared essential yet. Yeah. 53 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: The l A reopening has been very abrupt. We for 54 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: weeks we were told we needed to shelter in place 55 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: and that cases dusts were still going up. And then 56 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: suddenly yesterday, we're recording this right after the Memorial Day weekend. 57 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: Suddenly yesterday our mayor announced that retail stores were going 58 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: to be reopening. The governor allowed other hair salon I 59 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: don't know if responds are open in l A or 60 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: it's California. There's there's a few differences between what is 61 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: allowed in California. Versus what is allowed in l A. 62 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: But in any case, it's just for me. It just 63 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: seemed like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Like what what what 64 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: are we? What are we doing here? Um? I don't 65 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: really have plans to like go hang out of the mall. 66 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: I'm not really leaving my house very much. I go 67 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: onto neighborhood walks and masked and that's, you know, the 68 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: occasional grocery store trip, and that's kind of it. UM. 69 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: Kate and I had been recording a daily podcast called 70 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: Here for You that we started. We must have started 71 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: it right after we spoke to you, I think, um. 72 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 1: And as of this Friday, it will be done. We 73 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: will have done fifty episodes, and that has been consuming 74 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: a big part of my day for the last ten 75 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: weeks in a really good way. I think I really 76 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: needed that structure and just distraction. UM two helped structure 77 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: my days because otherwise it's so hard. That's so interesting 78 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: because I don't know if you both know I did 79 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: the same thing. I also hadn't done that when we 80 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: last spoke, and I created a daily podcast called The 81 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: Way We Live Now and it's still ongoing. But it's 82 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: interesting that we all felt a a need to create it. 83 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: Not like we didn't have enough to do already, right, um, right, 84 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: but somehow a need to create something of this time, 85 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: and also to create structure or more structure in days 86 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: that suddenly we're kind of unrecognizable because of what was 87 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: being asked of all of us in terms of sheltering 88 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: in place completely. It has really helped having some sort 89 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: of regular work practice every day, almost as if we 90 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: were going into an office or something like. They're like, 91 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: we just had to show up to do it, and 92 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: think that that's showing up that regular routine, similar to 93 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: the way that my children had, you know, kind of 94 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: zoom classes three days a week with their teachers or 95 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: there was just something about that consistency that felt very 96 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: grounding and needed. So you're you're amazing Listenership relies on 97 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: both of you for conversation and ideas about self care, 98 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: and I feel like self care, at least for me, 99 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: has shifted or is shifting in terms of how I 100 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: think of it or what it means. Um. Sometimes it 101 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: feels like it's expanding, sometimes it feels like it's contracting. 102 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: But what are what are you noticing in a sort 103 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: of general way, what is self care look like during 104 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: this time? I mean, I think it's really different for 105 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: different people. One thing that I think the pandemic is 106 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: really highlighted is so the divisions, um among people in 107 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: this country, whether it's race, class, um, you know, people 108 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: who are employed, people who are not employed, people who 109 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 1: have children, people who don't have children, people who live alone, 110 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: people who live with a significant other. Like, there's just 111 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: so many permutations of how people are experiencing this pandemic. 112 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: And so I think self care looks different for different people. Um. 113 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: That said, I think that one commonality that at least 114 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: we have kind of been encouraging our listeners is to 115 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: try to take some time to reflect, um within encouraging 116 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: people to keep journals. Kate started a one line a 117 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: day journal, which is something I've been doing for a 118 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: few months, and the listener a sorry and the guest 119 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: of ours um has been doing for eleven years. But 120 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: just something to have a chronicle of this time. And 121 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, you were kind of alluding to that with 122 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: talking about your daily podcast, and I think with our 123 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: podcast as well. Just desire to have a record of 124 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: this time, I think is something that falls under the 125 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: rubric of self care for a lot of people. Yeah. Absolutely, 126 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: I mean I think the slowing down that is an 127 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: inevitable result of this time, like whether in some cases 128 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: I think that's welcome and in some cases it's really 129 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: very hard, very very hard for some of us who 130 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: have been kind of going full tilt in a very structured, 131 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: very people, very busy life too, face ourselves in some 132 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: way and um and you know, and what is that mean? 133 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: I love the I love the idea of a one 134 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: line journal because it you know, sometimes when I'm teaching writing, 135 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: I'll often try to give my students a prompt that, 136 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: you know, where the bar is really low, where it's 137 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: it's doable, right, it's not it's not a mountain to climb. 138 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: You can write one line. I mean, I have something 139 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: that I give my students where I have them divide 140 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: a page into quadrants and I have them right a 141 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: number of things that they did, that they saw, that 142 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: they heard, and then a doodle of one of those 143 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: things every day, you know, just and it's like its 144 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: own kind of diary. Oh I heard a dog barking, 145 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: and then drawing a picture of the dog, and um, 146 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: or I saw I saw a fire truck go by, 147 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: and somehow it it's again like one of those the 148 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: bar is low. You know, you can you can do 149 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: this thing. You can make a bad doodle, you can 150 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: write a list of what you remember. But the idea 151 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: of a record feels really important because the sands are 152 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: shifting so rapidly. I think we're a few months from now, 153 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: We're not going to remember how we felt right now, 154 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: in a way that it's almost difficult for us talking 155 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: right now to remember how we felt a couple of 156 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: months ago when this was first happening. It's just it 157 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: reminds me also of the experience of grief and how 158 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: in the moment the rawness is so intense, and then 159 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: it can be hard to recount how it felt. As 160 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: time lose forward right like that, it evolves, And I 161 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: think our our feelings during this experience are evolving so quickly. Yeah, 162 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: and they are to some degree kind of blurry and 163 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 1: unknowable to us if we just try to remember them 164 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: without recording them. Because our days have a sameness, you 165 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: know that you know what day is today? You know, 166 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: is it Wednesday? Is at Monday? Is it Friday? Is 167 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 1: at a weekend? Time? Is it there. I mean, the 168 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: things that create structure in our lives, tent poles in 169 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: our lives, plans, all of that is being put on pause, 170 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: and so I think it's very hard to have that 171 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 1: feeling of knowing really what these feelings are, even yes, 172 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: we'll be back in a moment with more family secrets. 173 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: Are you finding that more people are reaching out to therapists? 174 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: Are I mean, is there a sense of asking for 175 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: help more that you hear about. I think there is 176 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: a desire to talk to therapists, but I think it 177 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: is sort of dodging for a lot of people who 178 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: have maybe who have never done therapy before, to start remotely. 179 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: I think it's tough, but people are doing it. I mean, 180 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: there's there's some services that advertise on our podcast talk 181 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: Space and Better Help, both of which offer online counseling, 182 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: and I think people are using things like that. Yeah, 183 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: it's it's interesting that you know, we're we're in a 184 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: time where that's kind of the only mode with which 185 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 1: people can communicate, and that it's also um that it's available. 186 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: Uh you know that that that this was something that 187 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: was already happening. I mean, I my therapist doesn't live 188 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: near me, um, And so I'm most of the time 189 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: when I speak to her speak on face time and 190 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: and at a certain point. And if you had told 191 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: me a few years ago, oh, that's an effective way 192 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: of speaking to a therapist, I would have thought that 193 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: it couldn't possibly be that you needed to be in 194 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 1: the room, that you know, you needed the bodyline guide 195 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: and the human contact. And um, it's in fact, it 196 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: is possible. It's possible to to connect in that way 197 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: and to and to have a real sense of intimacy 198 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: and of of being helped. And I mean, I've been 199 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: so struck by how many modalities and how many different 200 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: kinds of help are available to people right now without 201 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: leaving our homes, just you know, through our computers, through 202 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: our phones. Yeah, and thank goodness, I mean, you know, 203 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure we would there would be other ways that 204 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: that would be happening in a different time. But we're 205 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: so lucky that we can connect this way, um, during 206 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: a global pandemic, you know, I mean, I just it's 207 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: it's unimaginable to me if I if I was not 208 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: able to sit and FaceTime my family members across the 209 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: country to check in or FaceTime with my therapist or 210 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: or dory even you know, I mean, it really is. 211 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: It's so grateful that we have that accessible or many 212 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 1: of us have an accessible on everybody does, but right 213 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: now it's I mean, every every yoga teacher I know, 214 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: it seems, is having zoom classes, you know, livestream classes, 215 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: and they're doing it very often on a totally donation 216 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: UM you know, basis um not charging or or pay 217 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: what you can or don't pay if you can't UM. 218 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: And there's this sort of flood of generosity and compassion 219 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: that's one of the silver linings of this time. I mean, 220 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: I don't mean remotely that sound like Pollyanna, because there 221 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: are so many people suffering and it is such a 222 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: hard time for really everybody. It's hard, but within it 223 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: being hard, it feels like there are a lot of offerings. 224 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: And you know that people who might be isolated and 225 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: where they live and might never have sought out a 226 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: therapist or might not have been able to take a 227 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: yoga class with someone in um, you know, New York 228 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: City or Chicago or New Orleans, and all these studios 229 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: have online classes. It's like this cornucopia of if you 230 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: just open your computer, you can you can have the 231 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: feeling of being with other people and also of instruction 232 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: and of I mean another thing is bookstores because you know, 233 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: writers have they still had books coming out, and they 234 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: still had to find some way of having people know 235 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: about them. So bookstores are having all of what used 236 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: to be literary readings. They're doing virtually and they've discovered 237 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: that hundreds of people show up. Hundreds of people wouldn't 238 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: have shown up if they had to, you know, trudge 239 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: out to the bookstore or the bookstore wasn't in their 240 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: city or their town. But they're showing up because they can, 241 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: because it's available, because it's free, and it's a way 242 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: of gathering. I mean, we are such connecting creatures and 243 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: we just long to connect. Yeah. You know, a really 244 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: wonderful example of that is taking place in some of 245 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: our Facebook groups, and there is a dating subgroup Forever 246 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: thirty five Dating, and they get together virtually on an 247 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: app called Netflix Party and they watch movies once or 248 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: twice a week together. Wow. I love that because I've wondered, 249 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: I've wondered what it's like for people. You know, my 250 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: my son is he turned twenty one in captivity a 251 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: few weeks ago. You know, he's home with us. And 252 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: I've saw a lot about people who are dating or 253 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: had just started dating someone, or are single and in 254 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: this time where we can't touch each other, I wonder 255 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: what that's going to be like in this period of time. 256 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: However long this period of time goes on. So so 257 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: this on on in your Facebook groups, this um, this 258 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: dating subgroup, it's people who are like identifying themselves as 259 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: single and dating or yeah, I think it's it's mostly 260 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: it's mostly people who identify single and dating. I think 261 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: there are some people in the group who between the 262 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: times they joined the group and now have you know, 263 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: I didn't have become partnered. But I think many people 264 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: in the group are single and live alone, and so 265 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: this has been a really nice way for them to 266 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: have some connection during this time. Yeah, I mean, I 267 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: think whenever we're having a solitary experience, it's human nature 268 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: to feel like we're the only ones having that solitary experience. 269 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, it's like seeing lights on 270 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: in other people's houses, like knowing, oh I'm not I'm 271 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: not the only one you know who's single and who's 272 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: living alone and who's going through this there are so 273 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: many other people. Yes. So one of the things that 274 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: I love about your podcast and your dynamic the two 275 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: of you, is the way that you make things like 276 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: just really real. There's just a lot of very straight 277 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: talk about sometimes pretty intimate physical things and you know, 278 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: sort of bodily maintenance things, and it's really refreshing because 279 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: it's true and it's real. And you know, I've been 280 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: thinking a lot during this time about the way that 281 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: you know, we're we're all growing a little feral, you know, 282 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: like we're all like our hair is getting wild, and 283 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: you know, some of us are seeing our real hair 284 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: color for the first time in decades, and you know, 285 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: our hands are chapped, and the things that some of us, 286 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: you know, I feel like saying asking for a friend, 287 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: some of us who rely on certain the kind of 288 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 1: self care that involves facials and highlights and massages and 289 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: you know, manic ars and pedicures. That's just like in 290 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 1: a time capsule. Now, you know, it's just like from 291 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: another time where people did such things. And I am 292 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: surprised myself by how, at least at the moment, how 293 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 1: liberating on finding that, like, I don't feel remotely like 294 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: I can't wait to be doing that again. I actually 295 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: feel like, wow, this is really cool that my hair 296 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: is like halfway down my back and and I kind 297 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: of like that it looks the way that it does. 298 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: And um, oh, there are my toes. I haven't seen 299 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: my own toes in a while. I'm just are you 300 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: are you? Are you hearing that from people? And how 301 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: do you feel about that? Oh? Yeah, I think I 302 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: think we're all getting more perhaps reconnected or refamiliarized with 303 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: parts of our physical selves and emotional cells as well. 304 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: But yes, I mean I like, very plainly, I off 305 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: a pedicure and I hadn't realized I had not seen 306 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: my like plan toenails in like a year, and it 307 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: was just it was like, what have I been? What 308 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,479 Speaker 1: have I been doing? You know, you get into these 309 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: kind of routines and habits that you and you enjoy, 310 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: but um our may or may not be necessary, you know. 311 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: So it's it's been a it's it's been a real 312 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: privilege to get to kind of like re examine these things. 313 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: My hair is very long because I've been putting up 314 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: and getting a haircut since my last one in September, 315 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: and it's kind of it's hilarious to me. I look, 316 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: you know my hair is this. It's my hairstyle from 317 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: when I was in college twenty years ago. Um, And 318 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: I like reconnecting, but that I never thought my hair 319 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: would get this long unless I cut it myself. It's 320 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: just going to keep going. Yeah, And you know, I 321 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: mean it strikes me. It's sort of like a metaphor 322 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: for what's going on internally, Like it's hard to talk 323 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: about some of these things because they feel like, you know, 324 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: sort of privileged problems. Like I see my toes for 325 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: the first you know, I hadn't taken the same exact 326 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: thing that you said. I hadn't taken off my own 327 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 1: tonio polish in I don't even know. I don't even 328 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: know how long, embarrassingly long time. Um. And we get 329 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: into these habits, and the habits can become ruts, or 330 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: they can become things that we think we need to 331 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: help us feel put together. I think that's that's what 332 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: I would say. And you know, like right right when 333 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: the when when the pandemic really hit, I was still 334 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: on book tour and I have I have clothes that 335 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: I bought for all of these public appearances that I 336 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: was going to do, and when I opened my closet, uh, 337 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: these days, those clothes like are hanging there on hangars 338 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: like mocking me, like, oh, you thought this was important 339 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: or this was going to make you feel empowered to 340 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: get up in front of a crowd of people. And 341 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: you know, they those sounds, those sound like sort of 342 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: small things, but I think that they stand in for 343 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 1: some of the bigger things that have to do with 344 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: where is our confidence really coming from? And where does 345 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 1: our self knowledge come from? And what actually makes us 346 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: feel good about ourselves? Because isn't that, ultimately really what 347 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: self care is all about. How how do we feel 348 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,479 Speaker 1: good about ourselves and each other and the world around us. 349 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, it's like it starts. It starts to 350 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: lead you that some very kind of deep thinking, right 351 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: like just to just to manicure that you take for 352 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: granted all of a sudden feels like insight into who 353 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,719 Speaker 1: you really are. But you know, I also think one 354 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: thing that has been interesting for me is is it's 355 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: been you know, kind of removing yourself from this kind 356 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: of societal beauty industrial complex, you know, by being at 357 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: home and not feeling these external pressures. But then also 358 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: there have been days where I've put on a full 359 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: face of makeup and I don't. I don't normally wear 360 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: makeup and my my regular you know, pre coronavirus life. Um. 361 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: But's something about doing it also feels really comforting and 362 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: soothing and like I'm just doing it for myself. And 363 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 1: so it's been interesting to just take a step back 364 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: and notice what it brings this pleasure, why when, what 365 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: are the pressures that come along with it, and and 366 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: how is it playing out right now? Yeah, I'm so 367 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: glad you said that. I mean, that's I think that's 368 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: really that's really true that um and I and I 369 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: relate to it. Um. And I've also done that, Like 370 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: I I find for myself that I can't like where 371 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: pajamas on the bottom and like be on a zoom 372 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: call on the top. It makes me feel too, like 373 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:48,239 Speaker 1: somehow unprepared, even though nobody will see, um, you know 374 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: me from the waist down or um. Yeah, putting on 375 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: makeup not for the world, not for a public face, 376 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: not for anybody else, but for for myself because it 377 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: makes me feel put together. UM. And that's that's interesting. Like, Look, 378 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: I'm I'm a meaning maker. That's what I do like 379 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: I'm like I can make meaning out of you know, 380 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: like I can go from manicure to existential crisis in 381 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: in one sentences. My that's my way. But I do 382 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: think that all of these it's just an opportunity to 383 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: come out of this into that next normal um knowing 384 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: ourselves better and being able to hold onto some of that. 385 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: I mean, the thing that I fear is forgetting because 386 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: it feels like there's some really really big, important, powerful 387 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: lessons to be learned during this time that we are all, 388 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, we are all going through. And you know, 389 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: I think it's always it can also be human nature 390 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: to just kind of snap back to the way things were, 391 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: and I feel like they're the way things were. Is 392 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: also in that time capsule in a certain way, like 393 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: what are we who are we going to become? From this? Well? 394 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: And I think that's why keeping a record of this 395 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: time is so important, so we have that to look 396 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: back on and to know what our state of mind 397 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: was and to know what our days were like. And 398 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: so when we go into the next normal, we don't 399 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: just view this as like this weird aberration or blip 400 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: that it is part of us. Yeah, exactly is there 401 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: anything else that you're sharing with your listeners kind of 402 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: coping skills or things that are helpful, you know, along 403 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: the lines of the one line journal. I'm not sure 404 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: in terms of specific activities or practices if there's something, 405 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: but one thing we actually just very recently talked about 406 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: today is giving yourselves some grace during this time. And 407 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: I think that first of all, easier said than done. Like, 408 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: you know, a listener had written us and said, like, 409 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: people keep telling me to be kind to myself, how 410 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: do I even do that? All the things that would 411 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 1: normally do I can't do, and they were under you know, 412 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: a lot of stress and kids and work and changes 413 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: at home. And I think the ability to just give 414 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: yourself a pass right now and then to also remember 415 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: that that is a practice that you have access to 416 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: any time, whether you were in the middle of a 417 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: global pandemic or not, is so important. M I'm so 418 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: glad you said that. I mean, there's this like so 419 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: much negative, you know, sort of internal chatter that we 420 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: all share. Everyone does it. I think it was and 421 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: Anniel Lamott said something most like, my head is a 422 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: bad neighborhood that I don't want to spend too much time, 423 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: and like, I know when I spend too much time 424 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: up there that like I need to get out of 425 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: that neighborhood and there, you know, it's your your your 426 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: listener put it so perfectly. It's like, okay, that's those 427 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 1: are words, be kind to yourself. But but how do 428 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: you do that? And you know, sometimes I look at 429 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: my dog, and I have a lab or doodle, and 430 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: he's just like, you know, one of the loves of 431 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 1: my life. And he has a very very very patient 432 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: and sweet disposition. And he will just sit by the 433 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: window and look out. And I live in the country, 434 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: and he'll look out over the meadow and he's not 435 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: waiting for anything. It's not like he's waiting for someone 436 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: to come up the driveway or you know, once in 437 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: a while a deer will cross the meadow and he'll bark, 438 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: or you know, some really exciting thing will happen, like 439 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: a fox will trot by, you know, or a squirrel 440 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: or whatever. But really he's just being and he's enjoying. 441 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: I guess, you know, I can't read his mind, but 442 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: he seems pretty contempt looking out the window. And I think, 443 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: you know, many of us are working, um, many of 444 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: us have young kids at home who are home schooling 445 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: or or or supervising their school work. We're with people 446 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: or we're not with people. Seven, But there's a way 447 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: in which we do have more time. We just do. 448 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: And I think that there can be something really powerful 449 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 1: and helpful about just being or speaking to ourselves kindly, 450 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: the way that we would speak to someone that we 451 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: felt kindly about, Like why why can't we feel kindly 452 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: about ourselves? The way that we would feel to a 453 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: friend or or a stranger. Well, and you mentioned all 454 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: the wonderful surplus of offerings right now, which are great, 455 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,719 Speaker 1: but can also feel if you're not you know, if 456 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: you're not doing all the things that can I feel 457 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: like there's some sort of misopportunity, yes, and that that 458 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: can be so painful and unhelpful and just feel so awful. 459 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: So I think there is something so necessary to about 460 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: being ok a with not doing in whatever way that 461 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: looks like for an individual. Absolutely, because another way that 462 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: we're being connected to each other is often social media, 463 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: and social media can often look like everybody's living their 464 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: perfect pandemic life, you know, like everybody's everybody's cooking sour dope, baking, 465 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: sour dope bread and making elaborate meals and using filters 466 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: on their photographs. And I heard the phrase pretty early 467 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: on productivity porn. Yeah, and I think we're all vulnerable 468 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: to it, to feeling like, you know, we're not mastering 469 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: a new language, or reading war in peace, or learning 470 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: a new skill, or even necessarily performing at wherever our 471 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: level of performance was before. I mean, you know, sometimes 472 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: it feels like getting up and getting dressed and making 473 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: breakfast and accomplishing a couple of things is kind of it. 474 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: And I feel like it's important for people to really, 475 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: you know, and I mean myself included, and you know, 476 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: cut ourselves a break because this is hard, and I 477 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: think it's okay to acknowledge that and to just want 478 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: to emerge from this um again into that next normal, 479 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: whatever that looks like, with body and soul intact. And 480 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: we don't do that by being hard on ourselves. It's 481 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:49,959 Speaker 1: beautifully put. That's exactly right. We'll be right back. Occurs 482 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: to me too, that one of the things that you 483 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: both are doing is you create community. You've been creating 484 00:30:55,160 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: community through your work through Forever thirty five and through 485 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: these Facebook groups, and that's community the fact that you 486 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: have people who met each other who are partners now 487 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: and who are watching movies together and realizing that there 488 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: are all these other people in the same boat. That's 489 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: what's going to get us through, is that feeling that 490 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: we're you know, that that we're keeping it real and 491 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: and that we are all in it together and that 492 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: we're not alone. None, none of us has to feel alone. Yeah, 493 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: I mean I think I think that is true. But 494 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: I also think that there are people who are really 495 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: struggling right now, um, who live alone and you know, 496 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: maybe they haven't seen or touched another person in three months. 497 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: And there there is a really engaged virtual community, but 498 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: I think the the fact of not seeing people in 499 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: real life is very challenging. So I just don't want 500 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: to lose sight of that. No, glad you said that. 501 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: And even as I said, you know, no one has 502 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: to you know, be suffering alone, I heard myself say 503 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: it and thought, well, that's not you know, there's such 504 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: a range of there's such a range of suffering and 505 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: a range of experience right now, and um, and everyone 506 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: is is is contending with their own version of it, 507 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: and and and there's you can feel sometimes you know, 508 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel sometimes like the very earth is 509 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: kind of vibrating, you know, shuddering with a kind of 510 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: collective pain. Never in our lifetime, certainly, and maybe never 511 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: in human history has there been a moment where everyone 512 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: on the globe is actually contending with the same thing. 513 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: Where there's there's nowhere, there's no corner of the earth 514 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: where anyone is um exempt from this. And I think 515 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: the thing with being in a place where we've created 516 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: a community is that, you know, one thing, because we 517 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: get about that a lot, and make surely just did 518 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: a whole kind of zoom present talk about this, but 519 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: we're we're part of the community and can benefit from 520 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: that um like reciprocal nature of it. And so I know, 521 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: like one thing that has really gotten us through this 522 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: experience is the communication we've had from listeners, you know, 523 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: like r even just right now, is we're recording, we 524 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: get we're getting emails or we get text messages into 525 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: our our voicemail account, and and that helps us keep going. 526 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: And so I think like that has been that probably 527 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: sounds somewhat selfish, but getting to getting to exist in 528 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: this kind of digital community space is really gratifying and 529 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: it's like it's it's kind of a reward of podcasting 530 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: that I didn't foresee when we started it is that 531 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: we would get to experience the feeling of being seen 532 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: and um, belonging to a group, and that has been 533 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: very comforting, especially now when things feel so isolating. Yeah, 534 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: I know exactly what you mean, and that's um. It 535 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: is this UM it doesn't sound selfish at all to me. 536 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: It sounds grateful, you know, for that sense of connection 537 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: and community and and having it reflected back. Like oh, 538 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: when you make a podcast or you write a book, 539 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: or you know, you make anything, you're you're making it 540 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: and sending it into the world, really not knowing, not 541 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: having any idea, um, who's listening, who it's reaching, who's 542 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: reading you, if you're a writer like me, and to 543 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: hear that your words are landing, that your conversations are landing, 544 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: and and that it's giving people something, um gives so 545 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: much back. I mean, that's that just that feeling and 546 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: being a part of a community in that way. So yeah, 547 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just really grateful for that myself, and 548 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: and grateful for the two of you, and and for 549 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: everything that you're doing. That's really, so, I think the 550 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: last question that I would have for you is one 551 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: that I've been asking my guests on the way we 552 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,720 Speaker 1: live now, which is what's bringing you both hope now 553 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: during this time? What do you hope will come out 554 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: of this time? You know, with and and and and 555 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 1: what's what either practices or just feelings or thoughts or 556 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 1: something that you're reading or listening to that's making you 557 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: feel a sense of solace or hope. Kind a lot 558 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: of joy and hope. Listening to my children communicate with 559 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: their friends, m hm, it really I mean, one, like, 560 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: we're very lucky that we have, uh they have we 561 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: have by pans in our home, which means they have 562 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: access to you know, Internet, and they're hopping on and 563 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: like they now just kind of like set up a 564 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: zoom with a friend and I'll just like my seven 565 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: year old and her friend like play games together over 566 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: face time and she reads to her and they like 567 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: I just heard them both singing together one day, and 568 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: it just struck me at how they've really one been 569 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: able to maintain their relationships and their little people. You know, 570 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: my kids are seven and nine. And then also just 571 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: how they have adapted in such a really like beautiful way. 572 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: It's like that kind of like just when I hear 573 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: them like chattering away to each other about whatever nonsense, 574 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: it just gives me. It just gives me like a 575 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: sense of like, Okay, you know, like even though I'm 576 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: panicked about everything that's going on right now and I'm 577 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,439 Speaker 1: and I can see the stress in my kids as well, 578 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: like they've been they've been struggling. But those kind of 579 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: moments gives me a lot of They gave me a 580 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of hope. Um. The other thing. 581 00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: The other thing I've been doing, um is taking photographs 582 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: of nature. I'm going to live like a very suburban neighborhood. 583 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: It's not like I'm going through walks in the woods 584 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:11,479 Speaker 1: or anything, but just just being able to being able 585 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: to really appreciate things that are around me all the time. 586 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 1: And I think I feel that way about my family too, 587 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: you know, so grateful for them, and it's just remind 588 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: It's it's just I think many people are experienced experiencing 589 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: this a reminder of like what truly value. And I 590 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 1: know that if this is all resolved, I will go 591 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: back to, you know, being very excited to get a 592 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: facial again. But I, like you were saying, Danny, like, 593 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: I hope that the things I do hold on to 594 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,919 Speaker 1: are the time I've spent communicating with my family, because all, 595 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: you know, separated, the times I spend just kind of 596 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: enjoying my children's chatter, the experience of the nature that 597 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: is around me, like right out my door. All those 598 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: things are things that take so easily for granted. So 599 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: that makes me, that makes me hopeful that those those 600 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: kind of things will linger, you know. I am hopeful 601 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,800 Speaker 1: that people will look at how much the planet has 602 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: healed during this time when people aren't driving and flying 603 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,760 Speaker 1: and going on cruise ships as much as they had been, 604 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: and maybe we will all be able to help heal 605 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: the planet going forward as well. I'm so glad you 606 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: said that as well, because that's yeah. I mean, we 607 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: read pieces every day about how now certain um mountain 608 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,240 Speaker 1: peaks are visible from other mountain peaks that had hadn't 609 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: been in our lifetimes. And I spoke with the great 610 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: environmental writer Terry Tempest williams Um last week and she 611 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: was talking about she lives in Utah, and she was 612 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: talking about the the rivers that would typically be full 613 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: of people rafting Um. She and her husband went down 614 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: there and they were full of otters and sea life 615 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,359 Speaker 1: and you know see creatures who were probably who were 616 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,839 Speaker 1: always there, but you know, the but the river had 617 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: been taken over by by all the tourists and day trippers. 618 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,240 Speaker 1: And so it just feels, Yeah, there's just so much 619 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:23,240 Speaker 1: that of value that we can we can take from 620 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: this time. And and I've been hearing that so much 621 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: from from people as well. You know, you both used 622 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,919 Speaker 1: the word adapt or adaptation. I feel like that comes 623 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,240 Speaker 1: up in every conversation I have. And also that sense 624 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,240 Speaker 1: of in the slowing down, that connection with the natural 625 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: world and with nature and with and with noticing, you know, 626 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:52,720 Speaker 1: noticing noticing the sounds of our children, um, noticing spring 627 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 1: slowly emerging, or and noticing the way that nature is changing, 628 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 1: the way the sky looks different. And yeah, well, I 629 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: hope that the next time we speak it will be 630 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: in person. That would be nice. Yes, I would love that, 631 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: I went too. Well, we will and that that will happen. 632 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: We will, we will sit pool side somewhere um pedicured toes. 633 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: That's why or not doesn't matter or not exactly exactly, 634 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: but maybe we will I mean, I my son who's 635 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,959 Speaker 1: twenty one and at home. I realized I never would 636 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: have had this kind of time with him ever again 637 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: in his life. And while you have younger kids in 638 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: there under your roof, you wouldn't have had seven with them. 639 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: It just wouldn't have happened. Um. Now, I've been thinking 640 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: about that whole lot. Yeah, yeah, I mean I feel 641 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: like we we will look back at certain of the 642 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 1: gifts of this time with nostalgia. Not nostalgia for the time, 643 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: not nostalgia for the suffering, not nostalgia for all of 644 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 1: the awfulness and the difficulty and the anxiety, but for 645 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: the togetherness or the um the noticing of blessings, the 646 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: noticing of blessings whatever they are in our lives. Mm hmm. 647 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 1: It's beautiful. Yeah, that's that's that's exactly it. Well, thank 648 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: you so much, Story and Kate and I love following 649 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 1: you and your tribe and seeing what you're up to 650 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 1: and um and just look forward to ongoing conversation. Thank 651 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: you so much for having us. Yeah, it's a real 652 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: it's such a treat. Thank you, Danny. For more podcasts 653 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,479 Speaker 1: for my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app 654 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.