1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Calls media. 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 2: Welcome to it happened here a podcast about bad things. 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 2: Usually I don't know, this is mostly a bad things episode. 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: I am your host, Miya Wong. And one of the 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 2: kind of things we've emphasized on the show a lot 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 2: is that a lot of the structure of the kind 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 2: of open fascism that we're seeing now is stuff that 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: was put in place under liberal administrations, and it's practices 9 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: that are carried out by Democrats, and one of the 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 2: biggest ones of those and this is something that I 11 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 2: think you can trace the violence here and you can 12 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: trace the politics that it inspired directly to how we 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 2: got to Trump being in power. Is the just continuous 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: crisis in the US of governments doing sweeps of encampments 15 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: of unhoused people. And to talk about really one of 16 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: the most horrifying things that happens regularly in a country 17 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: of just unhinged and hideous horror is Emma, who does 18 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: advocacy work for on house and disabled people. And I'll 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: to County and Satia, who does support dream sweeps in 20 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: Oakland when yeah, this fucking hintshit happens. So both of 21 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: you two, welcome to the show. 22 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you, appreciate the chance 23 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: to talk with you. Yeah. 24 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 2: I always want to say that I'm excited and like 25 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: it is true. However, I wish I ran a podcast 26 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: that was about like good things, so that way I 27 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 2: could talk to people. It wasn't like, it wasn't me 28 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 2: being like, yeah, I'm excited to talk about like the 29 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 2: worst thing that happened. So I think a place to 30 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 2: start on this is when we talk about what a 31 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: sweep actually is on a physical level of what happens, 32 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: because I think people really don't have a sense of that. 33 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think softya, maybe you want to take 34 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: this one. 35 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm happy to take this one. Yeah, thank you. 36 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 3: I feel like, first of all, before I even go 37 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 3: into it, yes, I think a lot of people who 38 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 3: have never experienced a sweep or don't have loved ones 39 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 3: who have been sweat I think a lot of people 40 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 3: have no idea what a sweep actually consists of, even 41 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 3: if in a general sense they feel that it's a 42 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 3: bad thing or a wrong thing. And I think part 43 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 3: of that is deliberate. Sweeps usually happen during business hours, 44 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 3: during nine to five hours, because at least in Oakland, 45 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 3: they're conducted by the Department of Public Works. They're city employees. 46 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 3: They work nine to five, so accept in cases where 47 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: they work over time or when the city uses loopholes 48 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 3: to get around posting notice and ends up doing a 49 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 3: sleep on the weekend. They're usually happening when a lot 50 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 3: of middle class housed folks are at work and not 51 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 3: out and about seeing what's going on. So a sweep, 52 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 3: and I'm primarily talking in the context of Oakland, California, 53 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 3: but I think it's safe to assume that these operate 54 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 3: in similar ways around the country. Generally, what will happen 55 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 3: is you, let's say you're living in an encampment. A 56 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 3: sweep has been posted. In Oakland, there is policy that 57 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 3: states that you're supposed to have received at least week's notice. However, 58 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 3: a lot of people don't receive this notice, so you 59 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: might not even know that it's happening. You might wake 60 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 3: up at around nine am to a bunch of heavy 61 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 3: machinery pulling up dump truck, small bulldozers, other types of 62 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 3: sort of like heavy equipment, and then you'll have somebody 63 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 3: from the city administration, like a city administrator's assistant, going 64 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 3: around announcing that the city of Oakland is there, you know, 65 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 3: making noise that your tent or your car or wherever 66 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: you're staying, saying, hey, this encampment is being closed down. 67 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 3: You have to be out of here. There usually are 68 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 3: representatives of the city's contracted outreach organization called Operation Dignity. 69 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 3: They're supposed to be there. Very rarely do they actually 70 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 3: have referral for somewhere to go. They'll basically just be like, hey, 71 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 3: do you want services. They won't usually specify what the 72 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 3: services are. They'll just show up and be like, hey, 73 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 3: do you want services. If you say yes or have 74 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 3: questions about what services are available, they may give you 75 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 3: a sort of very rundown of whatever might be available 76 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 3: that day, because they don't usually even find out what 77 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 3: openings are available until ten am on any given day, 78 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 3: so at the time that they roll up, they usually 79 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 3: don't even know what's available yet. So it kind of 80 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 3: progresses from there. I mean, every sweep is a little different, 81 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 3: but the commonality between all of them is that what 82 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 3: the city is there to do is essentially to erase 83 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 3: all signed that anybody ever lived there. So either you 84 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 3: are able to pack as much stuff as you can 85 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 3: and get it out of the eviction zone before the 86 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 3: city decides that it's your turn to be targeted or 87 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 3: all of your stuff ends up in the back of 88 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 3: a dump truck. There are other sort of specific pieces 89 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 3: of policy and operational things that can vary from time 90 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 3: to time, like, for example, they're supposed to follow a 91 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 3: bag and tag policy, which means that they're expected to 92 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 3: store up to a cubic yard of somebody's belongings for 93 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 3: ninety days at a storage location in East Oakland. They 94 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 3: rarely do this unless how to do so, and most 95 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 3: of the time, the actual process of going back and 96 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 3: reclaiming your belongings from that location has enough barriers that 97 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 3: almost nobody ever manages to do it. 98 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: Yeah. 99 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 2: So, so to just make this clear, the thing that 100 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,119 Speaker 2: they're doing is they show up and that they fucking 101 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: destroil your property. 102 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: Yep. 103 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: Like the thing that it most closely resembles is like 104 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 2: we're doing our own miniature ethnic cleansings. Like that's just 105 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 2: like what that is. 106 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: Ye, yes, And every suite there are at least several 107 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: police you know, depending on the size of the suite, 108 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: that can be even more. And so there is a 109 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: very real threat of police violence, like underlying every single 110 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: encampment suite and so the suite that Oakland this week. 111 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: Practices that Oakland has set up are like very kind 112 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: of odd, and they are associated with different like lawsuits 113 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: that have occurred and the past couple of actually since 114 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 1: the seventies. But so there are certain requirements that the 115 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: City of Oakland is obligated to follow in like certain 116 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: provisions and offers that like homeless people are technically supposed 117 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: to be receiving and for a bunch of complicated reasons, 118 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: like rarely ever are so for instance, like the bag 119 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: and tag policy that Satya was just discussing, like they've 120 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: recently somebody did a PRA request to see whether or 121 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: not to city was actually following faithfully following that policy. 122 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: And I think in like over a year there were 123 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: I believe eight bagging tags that were registered in the 124 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: city system. And that was in that same period there 125 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: were like well over one hundred sweeps. You know, I 126 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: Jesus don't have the exact number on me, but are yeah, 127 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: actually five hundred and thirty seven closure two instances of 128 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: storing property. So you know that's people's their whole lives, 129 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: all their possessions, like precious items that they they're able 130 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: to hang on to are just yeah, destroyed and they 131 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: never see them again. 132 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 3: And I would also add to the piece around like 133 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: the quote like offer of services, Like that's also something 134 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 3: written into their policy that they're supposed to be connecting 135 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 3: people to housing ahead of sweeps, and that's what they 136 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 3: use to continually justify the way that they operate. Is 137 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 3: that in for example, city council meetings and Homelessness Commission 138 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 3: meetings where city admin is questioned on their procedures because 139 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 3: they get complaints, like the Homeless Commission gets complaints constantly 140 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,679 Speaker 3: of people being mistreated, losing all their belongings, never getting 141 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 3: referred to housing, and so forth. And the justification that's 142 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 3: constantly used is like, well, we're offering people services every time, 143 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 3: and they just refuse them. And I think that that 144 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 3: is pretty much the number one mythology that is continuing 145 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 3: to spur a lot of the like pro sweep discourse 146 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 3: in Oakland specifically, and I'm sure in other parts of 147 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 3: the country as well. And people are not, like to 148 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 3: be clear, most of the time, people are not actually 149 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 3: being offered services. 150 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: It's just not happening. 151 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a national discourse he chose ault. I mean, 152 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 2: you know, I think a lot of it kind of 153 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 2: is concentrated in the most unhinged, like tech sectors in 154 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: the Bay. But like you hear, like officially Elon Musk 155 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: has talked about like, oh, there's like there's like a 156 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 2: homeless industrial complex, and like all of these people are 157 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: just like they want to live on the street, and 158 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: like they they're like turning down houses all the time, 159 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 2: and it's just like it's so it's so completely unmoored 160 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: from reality. 161 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 3: But what's funny is I've actually used the term homeless 162 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 3: industrial complex myself. I didn't know that there is that's hilarious. 163 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 3: There is a homeless Yeah, it's just that the people 164 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 3: making money off of it are the people who are 165 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 3: perpetrating the sweeps. The reason that they're not actually putting 166 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 3: forth real solutions that will get people into safe shelter 167 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 3: and housing is because they're the ones benefiting from the 168 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 3: perpetuation of these economic conditions. 169 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so many things that I want to pick 170 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: up on, but I guess just on that point specifically, 171 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: Like there was an audit into California spending on homelessness. 172 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: I believe it was over a period of seven years, 173 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: and it showed that there was twenty four billion dollars 174 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: spent on grants to nonprofits or cities to provide people 175 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: with different services that are kind of designed around homelessness 176 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: and providing housing or legal services. Like there's a whole 177 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: range of things that's out there, but a lot of 178 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: the time like these are the only options that are 179 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: available to people, and they tend to produce less than 180 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: stellar results. So, out of the twenty four billion dollars 181 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: that was allocated to help homeless people in that same 182 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: period of time, homelessness in California just like skyrocketed, right, 183 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: So rates of homelessness increased while this money was getting 184 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: plumped into the pockets of the bank accounts of like 185 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: landlords and developers. It is an issue that people on 186 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: every side of the political compass like they like to 187 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: use this point to their own ends, right, So Elon 188 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: Musk talks about it, and like people on the left 189 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 1: will talk about it. But I think, like the experience 190 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: that people on the street have is very different than 191 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: any of these narratives that you tend to hear in 192 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: the media. 193 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 2: Yes, unfortunately, we need to take an ad break. I 194 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: don't have a good transition here. I don't know, We'll 195 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 2: move of one set of horrors to a slightly different 196 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 2: set of horrors and go back to the first set 197 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 2: of horrors. 198 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: All of this money is being dedicated to these programs, 199 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: and homelessness is only rising. I think, like one thing 200 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: that I've heard before that's a kind of useful way 201 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: to think about this kind of government spending is if 202 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: homeless people would be better off if you'd just gave 203 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 1: them the money directly, you know, then that kind of way, 204 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: it's really hard to justify these programs when that can't 205 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: be said of them, you know. 206 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 3: And I think the thing that you pointed out, Emma, 207 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 3: about the fact that we have huge amounts of money 208 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 3: allegedly being spent on my homelessness abatement or homeless services 209 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 3: at the same time that homelessness is skyrocketing is really 210 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: not an accident, because what that money is really being 211 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 3: spent on is to fuel exactly what is it, like, 212 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 3: the homeless industrial complex. There's a reason that most of 213 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 3: that money is going into the pockets of landlords and 214 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 3: developers and then sort of like these sort of large 215 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 3: like nonprofit almost like conglomerates of like service providers. And 216 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 3: it's because the primary point of homelessness services as it 217 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 3: exists in this country is not to get homeless people 218 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 3: into housing. It's to line the pockets of the people 219 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 3: that are making the most money off of the real 220 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 3: estate market anyway. And so because of that, it is 221 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 3: not an accident that you see homeless spending and homelessness 222 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 3: like escalating at the same time. It's because this is 223 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 3: the feedback loop, Like, this is the way that our 224 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 3: you know, economic priorities in this country are structured, are 225 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 3: such that those two things are going to feed into 226 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 3: each other because that money doesn't actually exist to serve 227 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 3: the populations that they say that they're using it to serve. 228 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 3: What they do get to do is by claiming that 229 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 3: that money is going into homelessness abatement, when clearly it isn't. 230 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 3: They then get to spind a narrative where they say, oh, 231 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 3: we've spent all this money, but the problem is just 232 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 3: getting worse. That must mean that it is the fault 233 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 3: of unhoused people and that they're choosing this because clearly 234 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 3: the services must exist to get them off the street. 235 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 3: In reality, that's not the case. At all. 236 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think also it's super important for people to 237 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: understand that these programs, housing programs, shelter programs, they are 238 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: out there, but they are decoupled from the sweep operations 239 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: that are occurring. Right So, the City of Oakland, they 240 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: are contracted with the nonprofit Softia mentioned earlier called Operation Dignity, 241 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: and they are required to check in with different encampments 242 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: that are scheduled to be closed at least a week 243 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: before the suite and the purpose of that is to 244 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: notify people that it's happening. The City of Oakland is 245 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: required for the terms of this lawsuit back in I 246 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: believe twenty nineteen, the Moralees lawsuit, and there was a 247 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: settlement that resulted in the city being required to provide 248 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: clear notices whenever they're going to close like a site. 249 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, this nonprofit providers was to like notify people 250 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: and try to get them connected with services. However, the 251 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: services for the most part, like housing for people who 252 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: are unhoused, is largely funded through the federal government and 253 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: through this very complex and inaccessible system called coordinated Entry. 254 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: The coordinated Entry system is not something that the City 255 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: of Oakland or Operation dignity like that is not something 256 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: that they're providing people with during the suitep. So when 257 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: the City of Oakland, like for instance, and one of 258 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: the commissions on Homelessness meetings, the city administrator Harold Duffy, 259 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: he presented actually in response to a question about somebody's 260 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: wheelchair being destroyed by public works. Yeah, he gave this 261 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: really like roundabout deflecting answer where he said basically that 262 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: everyone who is at an encampment at the time of 263 00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: the sweep has like expressly refused services like shelter or 264 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: housing or whatever, and that they kind of presumes that 265 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: the city actually has opportunities that they can provide people with, 266 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: which is just not the case. The Coordinated Entry System, 267 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: it is a program that is first of all, like 268 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: only people who are disabled can get what's called permanent 269 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: supportive housing through the program. But also it is in 270 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: such high demand and is so inadequate to the needs 271 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: that Alameda County is currently like the situation that we're 272 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: in that the wait list is like thousands of people long, 273 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: and it can take well over a year before someone 274 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: can get housing through that system. So it's just like 275 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: it's not true they do offer people what are called 276 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: community cabins, which are tough sheds. They're not even offering 277 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: people that they're full the full. Yeah, that's what they say. 278 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: They offer. Sorry, I had me to cut you off. 279 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 3: I feel strongly about this, So I think it's also 280 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 3: where things like in terms of I feel like that's 281 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 3: a really a really useful layout, Emma, in terms of 282 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 3: like the way that the system is actually structured for 283 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 3: people not to be able to access services, I feel 284 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 3: like it's also worth pointing out that just day to 285 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 3: day on the ground, I feel like I feel like 286 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 3: I get to see a lot of sort of like 287 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 3: minute details and changes in the way that they're operating 288 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 3: in response to what they're like internal systems actually look like. 289 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 3: And what we have seen over the last six months 290 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 3: to a year is not only this pattern that e'm 291 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 3: I was talking about of like they're like people are 292 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 3: consistently not getting connected with services and then being accused 293 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 3: of refusing services just due to the conditions that they're 294 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 3: living under, but also everything that Oakland has and that 295 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 3: approaches like livable transitional housing, which is kind of laughable 296 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 3: in this case because we can also go into the 297 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 3: conditions of the transitional housing programs and shelters in Oakland 298 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 3: which are abysmal, but everything that they have that approaches 299 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 3: livable transitional housing is full. 300 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: I very rarely. 301 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 3: Every few weeks, maybe I see one or two people 302 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 3: get referred to one of those programs, and far more 303 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 3: often I'll be in a situation. For example, I was 304 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 3: at a sweep over near twenty third and Northgate a 305 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 3: couple of weeks ago, and I was there when Operation 306 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 3: Dignity rolled up and I heard what they were saying 307 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 3: when they were talking to people, and this one dude 308 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 3: was going around talking to folks and he kind of 309 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 3: he wasn't even approaching talking about services. He was approaching 310 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 3: being like, Hey, I'm just here to let you know 311 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 3: that this area is going to be closed down, Like 312 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 3: there's a sweep that's going to be happening, so you 313 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 3: guys have to be out of here. So that was 314 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 3: what they led with. And then I prompted him because 315 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 3: I was there chatting with one of the guys that 316 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 3: he was talking to, so I prompted him. I was like, 317 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 3: do you have any services to offer? And then he 318 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 3: was like, oh, you can go over to Saint Vincent 319 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 3: de Paul, which is conger Get shelter in West Oakland 320 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 3: with about forty beds, and nobody is guaranteed a spot, 321 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 3: is just a room full of cots. A lot of 322 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 3: people refuse to go there because the conditions are so 323 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 3: terrible and they don't feel comfortable or safe sleeping in 324 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 3: a room full of a bunch of strangers with no 325 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 3: kind of security, no guarantee of being able to hold 326 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 3: onto their stuff. People are only allowed to bring in 327 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 3: like a backpack sort of stuff, I'm pretty sure. And 328 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 3: you also have to it's first come, first service. You 329 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 3: have to line up outside every single day, and you 330 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 3: are not guaranteed an indoor place to sleep even if 331 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 3: you line up outside. So what we have is a 332 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 3: situation where the availability of services varies from day to day. 333 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 3: I cannot think of a single sweep in the last 334 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 3: year that I have been to, and I'm at usually 335 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 3: multiple sleeps a week where there were enough guaranteed spots 336 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 3: available for every person being swept. So the implicit assumption 337 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 3: at every single sweep and the Operation Dignity people know 338 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 3: this too, like they know this, the implicit assumption when 339 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 3: they roll up, and the assumption that colors even the 340 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 3: tenor of all of their conversations that they're having with 341 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 3: people is that the majority of people are just going 342 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 3: to have to figure out how to pack their shit 343 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 3: up and find another place to camp. It's the assumption, 344 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 3: and it's gotten to the point where, like od employees 345 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 3: will roll up and like I said, they won't even 346 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 3: necessarily lead with an offer of services. They'll lead almost 347 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 3: in the hopes that the majority of people already have 348 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 3: a place to relocate. They'll ask do you have a 349 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 3: place to go? Before they offer services, or ask if 350 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 3: people are entered as services, they'll they'll ask, like, do 351 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 3: you have another spot to move this stuff first? Because 352 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 3: what they're hoping to do is eliminate as many people 353 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 3: as possible from their list of people that they feel 354 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 3: obligated to offer services to because they know they don't 355 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 3: fucking have anything. 356 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's super important to just emphasize that point. 357 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: The city is telling the media. They're telling like businesses, 358 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: anyone that comes to them with problems related to like 359 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: helplessness or concerns, they're telling them that everyone is being 360 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: offered shelter and housing and it's just not true and 361 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: that is reflective in the city's own publicly available data, 362 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: so they actually publish like a list of all of 363 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: the encampment suites that they do throughout the year, and 364 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: in the Commission on Homelessness meetings, will report back to 365 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: the Commission about like service enrollment that they've done through 366 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: a certain period of time, and like from May to 367 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 1: September they had enrolled I believe it was sixty people 368 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: and to services like non specified services. And during that 369 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: period there was approximately eighty sweeps. And if you assume 370 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: there's at least five to ten people at every encampment 371 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: when they do a sweep, and usually it's more that 372 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: is like nine percent four point five percent of people 373 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: like getting enrolled into into services, and like of those 374 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: maybe a smaller traction getting into shelter. And when they 375 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: get into shelter, they just languish there, right, they aren't 376 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: connected with case workers who help them get through this 377 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: really convoluted coordinated entry process and like lengthy coordinated entry process, 378 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: and so within a few months they're just right back 379 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: on the street. You know, it's just ridiculous. And unfortunately, 380 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: because homeless people have very little like I guess you 381 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,239 Speaker 1: could call it social capital, you know, the city can 382 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: get away with a lot of this stuff they do, 383 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: like blatantly illegal things that are against even their own policies, 384 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: and nothing happens. And I guess like maybe we should 385 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 1: back up a little bit and discuss the city's policy. 386 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 2: It's from second at break and then we will come 387 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 2: back more ads. I don't know by them question mark. 388 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: We are back. 389 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, let's talk about I think what the 390 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 2: city's policies are supposed to be versus like what they're 391 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 2: actually doing on the ground. 392 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, their policy is their cover your ass technique, right, 393 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 3: Their policy is what they refer back to whenever they 394 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 3: want to sort of like like Emma said, if they're 395 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 3: interfacing with businesses or house people, you know, and we 396 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 3: have a whole range of house people calling free one one, 397 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 3: which is basically their tip line for like go you 398 00:23:58,400 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 3: see a homeless person, you don't want to be seen. 399 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 3: But there's all a range of people. There's people that 400 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 3: are actively malicious and violent, and there's literally people going 401 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 3: out doing vigilanti shit and like destroying almost people's stuff 402 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 3: on their own. And then you also have people that 403 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 3: are well intentioned and really think the city is offering services. 404 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 3: So you have this whole umbrella and the narrative that 405 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 3: the city sells to everybody is bolstered by their policy. 406 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 3: That's the purpose their policy services, not to inform their actions, 407 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 3: but to inform their pr So I think it would 408 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 3: be helpful, Emma, how do you feel about if you 409 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 3: want to kind of give a breakdown of the city's 410 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 3: policy and then I can kind of give a breakdown 411 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 3: into what that translates into on the ground. 412 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is like, it's kind of a complicated situation. 413 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: But the city has what's what they call their Encampment 414 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: Management policy, and it was initially passed in I think 415 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, but it's gone through like several evolutions over 416 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: the past ten years or so, and it is related 417 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: to different Supreme Court cases and the settlement that I 418 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. So this policy, it provides certain very limited 419 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: protections for people who are homeless in the city limits. 420 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: The city is required by this policy to offer shelter. 421 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: I believe it's a week for any person who's subject 422 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: to one of their encampment closures. And also we mentioned 423 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: the bag intag policy. So if somebody, you know, they 424 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: are evicted and they move somewhere outside with the tent, 425 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: they bring all of their possessions with them. They are 426 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: provided with a I believe three foot by three foot 427 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: like storage space and this facility that is super inaccessible 428 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: and kind of like like I don't even know if 429 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: it's actually real, to be honest, because it's just like 430 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: nobody ever, I've never heard of anybody actually like getting 431 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: their stuff stored and getting back. But technically that is 432 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: a possibility. However, the city will only hold on to 433 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: it for so long before they throw it away, and 434 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: then the last protection or provision is the city was 435 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: until recently supposed to provide people with shelter. So a 436 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: few different Supreme Court cases are behind that provision specifically, 437 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of cities kind of had 438 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: a similar policy framework that they were following until the 439 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: Grant's Pass ruling, and I guess maybe we don't need 440 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: to get into that too much, but basically, the whole 441 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: idea of that policy was like, if somebody is outside 442 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: the thing outside and the city suites them, they have 443 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: to provide them with some kind of alternative accommodation because 444 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: according to like the Ninth District Court, it was consideredly 445 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: cruel and unusual punishment to panalyze somebody for being homeless 446 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: without offering them some kind of temporary like accommodations. And 447 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: so that was more or less the city's nominal framework 448 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: for several years basically, and the degree to which they 449 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: actually followed these policies, you know, they really didn't, except 450 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: for in certain situations where there are like, for instance, 451 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: legal advocates who will file injunctions to stop the city 452 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: from doing a sweep on the basis of like failure 453 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: to provide an alternative accommodation. And typically those arise when 454 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: there is a very large encampment clearing operation that is 455 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: scheduled and a contentious issue. You know, a lot of 456 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: the time, for instance, they'll be people staying on city 457 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: or like California state land and the city will like 458 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: force them to move because of some development project that 459 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: they're planning to do. And so in those situations when 460 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: the media has kind of narrowed their their focus and 461 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: begun like discussing some of this stuff and the local press, 462 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: then like something like that became possible. But after the 463 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: Grants Past ruling this past year, the city was no 464 00:28:54,760 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: longer like obligated under federal law to all of those policies, 465 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: and in September of last year, the late Mayor Shankal, 466 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: she issued an executive order that more or less like 467 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: just totally rendered that policy framework irrelevant. So she put 468 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: forth a new framework that allows the city to sweep 469 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: encampments under a tiered system of what are called emergency suites. 470 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: So if for instance, a encampment is blocking a roadway 471 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: or a sidewalk, then it is a hazard to the 472 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: public quote unquote, or if it's somebody has a tent 473 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: that is up against a building of some sort, it's 474 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: a fire hazard. And so in this tiered system, there's 475 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: like different levels of safety hazards that they're doing now. 476 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: And basically what that looks like is like a fire 477 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: marshal and the city administrator will convene after somebody calls 478 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: in a complaint about somebody that's staying outside by their business. 479 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: And with the fire hazard one, I believe that they 480 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: can just sweep without any prior notice, whereas the other 481 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: two there is some like level of notice that they're 482 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: technically required to provide. But yeah, so the shelter provisions 483 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: and the notice and storage like it, they're technically still 484 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: supposed to follow that by their own city resolution, but 485 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: there is this provision that like, if for instance, they 486 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: issue somebody like a no or a one hour notice 487 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: to leave because of like a fire hazard, and like 488 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: add kids can't make it there because they don't really 489 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: know nobody knows it's happening, then the city can just 490 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: do that and not offer people anything. Right, So these 491 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: policies have the effect of disempowering our the ability to 492 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: respond to like a scheduled operation. Then the city can 493 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: really just do whatever they want because nobody's watching what 494 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: they're doing. 495 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 2: I guess we can. I think we can take this 496 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 2: here towards something I think would probably good to start 497 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 2: closing on, which is, like, what can people actually do 498 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: about this? 499 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 3: First of all, I think listening to all of this, 500 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 3: it can be really easy to feel disempowered and to 501 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 3: feel like, you know, the walls are closing in and 502 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 3: there's nothing that we can do. And that remains not 503 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 3: the case, you know. I think people should feel empowered 504 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 3: to be able to physically intervene, because the most effective 505 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 3: way of physically intervening with this kind of violence is 506 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 3: to commit to relationship building, something that I've talked about 507 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 3: a lot with sort of like fellow advocates and folks 508 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 3: that are kind of involved in like sweeps response and 509 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 3: crisis response in Oakland is that the one thing that 510 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 3: the city cannot take away from us that we have 511 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 3: an advantage over them in is relationship building. Part of 512 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 3: the reason that, for example, the Operation Dignity employees are 513 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 3: so inefficient and so you know, seemingly bad at their 514 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 3: jobs is not just the fact that they don't have 515 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 3: anything to offer, but also because everybody on the street 516 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 3: knows they're full of shit because they never show up 517 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 3: with anything real and addressing housed people in particular, right, like, 518 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 3: one of the things to get out of is sort 519 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 3: of like the savior mentality or the guilt mentality of like, oh, 520 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 3: like I don't have any housing to offer, therefore I 521 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 3: can't do anything, Like I can't fix the problem, I 522 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 3: can't fix the roots, so I can't do anything. In reality, 523 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 3: all you really need to do is to learn to 524 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 3: set that mentality aside and show up and like start 525 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 3: meeting folks where they're at, Start meeting your neighbors where 526 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 3: they're at, start building relationships. You need to know, like 527 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 3: if you live in a particular neighborhood, Think to yourself, 528 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 3: I need to know that if any unhoused person within 529 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 3: a mile radius of my home was disappeared, I would 530 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 3: need to I would need to know, you know what 531 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 3: I mean, Like, I would want to know if that happens. 532 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 3: So if you go out with that understanding that you're 533 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 3: starting to build lifelong relationships with the folks that are 534 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 3: living outside in your neighborhood, ideally a lot of other 535 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,239 Speaker 3: people in your neighborhood too, you know what I mean. 536 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 3: But like, what they're banking on is right now, while 537 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 3: while they're still trying to use a pr cover for 538 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 3: what they're doing. What they're banking on is people not 539 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 3: talking to each other, people not finding out about the 540 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 3: abusis people not finding out about the violations, people not 541 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 3: being there, and people not having relationships that will remain 542 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 3: strong even as they try to physically scatter people's communities. 543 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 3: And what you can do to start is start investing 544 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,239 Speaker 3: in those relationships. Make sure you know what people's names are, 545 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 3: make sure you would know if somebody's routine was suddenly disrupted. Hey, 546 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 3: Beckuy used. 547 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 2: To be on that corner. 548 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 3: You know, every couple days out of the week, and 549 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 3: now I never see him anymore what happened to him? 550 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 3: And I think you can start there, and there's much 551 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 3: more that you can concretely do. I mean, one of 552 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 3: the ways that I'm accustomed to showing up at this 553 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 3: point is direct on the ground sweeps response. So we're 554 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 3: still able to keep track currently of what their schedule 555 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 3: is on a weekly basis more or less, Like there's 556 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 3: definitely operations we don't find out about until after the fact, 557 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 3: but the majority of their weekday operations we do still 558 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 3: know about ahead of time, and so we'll show up. 559 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 3: We'll make sure we get there before the city does 560 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 3: so like by eight am ideally right, Like we show up, 561 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 3: talk to people, will be like what do you need? 562 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 3: Do you need physical help moving your belongings out of 563 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 3: the eviction zone. Do you need to borrow somebody's phone 564 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 3: so that you can call somebody who said they were 565 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,320 Speaker 3: going to come help you. Do you need help pushing 566 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 3: or pulling your vehicle? Any number of things really, but 567 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,240 Speaker 3: just like being willing to show up and ask questions 568 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 3: about necessarily knowing what answers you're going to get, and 569 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 3: being down to follow up and like do aftercare with 570 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 3: people and chicken on folks and like keep building those relationships. 571 00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 3: I think that those are the building blocks of the 572 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 3: zing that we're going to need to be doing in 573 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 3: the future, because you know, what the city is counting 574 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 3: on is that they're going to be able to successfully 575 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 3: create a scapegoat, right. They want to create like a faceless, 576 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 3: nameless mass of people that they can pin all their 577 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 3: problems on and then incarce rate. And the best thing 578 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 3: that we can do is make sure that they can't 579 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 3: successfully do that, because we all have relationships to each other. 580 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, I really appreciate those sentiments yet, and I think 581 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: like the Oakland like advocates doing like eviction defense for 582 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: people who are living outside. It's grown in size and 583 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: like capacity quite a bit in the past here, and 584 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: like the city has noticed that. So they've actually like 585 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: they've passed various resolutions, and honestly, a lot of their 586 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: practices and their policies, like their Encampment management team, they 587 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: seem to be like responding to the increasing effectiveness of 588 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: this response, just like network of community defense. And so 589 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: I think that like all of those things are are 590 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: so important, especially as the term regime starts to eliminate 591 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: the very like modest social safety net that that there was. 592 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: And you know, before we end this conversation, I just 593 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: want to emphasize that in Oakland, like a majority of 594 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: the people who are homeless and are subject to state violence, 595 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: they are non white, mostly black, and are homeless in 596 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: neighborhoods where they used to be housed. And so the 597 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: gentrification that has happened, particularly in like West Oakland, and 598 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 1: the influx of high income tech workers that displaced them 599 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: and moved into their family homes, they are the same 600 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 1: people who are calling three one one to push the 601 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 1: city to displace them again, but from a tent or 602 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: a car this time. And I think it's just so 603 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: so important that particularly like housed people try to tap 604 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: into the networks of community defense that exist in their areas. 605 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:42,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure that most cities probably have something comparable to Oakland, 606 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:48,399 Speaker 1: but with the measures that we're seeing, cities begin to take, 607 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: such as in Fremont, which is about thirty minutes south 608 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: of Oakland, where they basically banned or criminalize mutual aid 609 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: with unhoused people. So you can get one thousand dollars 610 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: fine or a six months in jail for dating and 611 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: a betting a homeless person, and you know, that's an. 612 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 3: Extremely vague law, so like giving someone a blanket could 613 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 3: fall under this, So you could be fined or put 614 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 3: in jail for giving an unhouse person a blanket and 615 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:25,439 Speaker 3: free month currently. 616 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 1: So it's very important that people try to be aware 617 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:35,240 Speaker 1: of their city government, how they're maybe passing anti homeless 618 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: measures and there in their cities, and trying to mobilize 619 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,280 Speaker 1: against against that from happening. 620 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 3: I also have one more thing to add that I'm 621 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 3: so sorry, just specifically for anybody, for anybody thinking about 622 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:55,720 Speaker 3: getting involved or organizing strategically around community defense, sleep defense, 623 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 3: whatever that looks like in your particular area, I would say, 624 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 3: but first of all, especially if you're a house person 625 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 3: in this case, like invest valuable time into getting to 626 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 3: know people on an interpersonal level and getting to know 627 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 3: people's needs first, instead of falling into the drop of 628 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 3: sort of imposing what you might have learned through like 629 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 3: other sort of direct action organizing, because this is not 630 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 3: that you know, like I think, yeah, first of all, 631 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 3: just making sure that you're being you're organizing as being 632 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 3: led by the needs of you know, homemost residents that 633 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 3: are expressing what they need to you. But also on 634 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 3: top of that, when it comes to this particular draconian 635 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 3: waves of legislation that are being passed or on, like 636 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 3: anti homeless laws and stuff, don't preemptively obey, you know 637 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 3: what I mean, Like if you live in Fremont, don't 638 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,720 Speaker 3: preemptively say, oh fuck, I better stop passing out blankets. 639 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 3: Because what we've seen in Oakland with the particular iterations 640 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 3: of anti homeless legislation that they've passed here is that 641 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 3: just because they've passed legislation doesn't mean that they feel 642 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 3: confident enforcing it yet. And what you need to do 643 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 3: really is step up real hard and show them you 644 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,080 Speaker 3: can't enforce this the way that you want to. They 645 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 3: are going to push back. There's going to be this 646 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,880 Speaker 3: back and forth interplay that we've seen, you know, for 647 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 3: example in Oakland with the safe works and ordinance, which 648 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 3: we can probably get into another time, because it's way 649 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 3: too much to get into right now, I think at 650 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 3: this point in the episode. But it's a two way street. 651 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 3: It's this fight that you have to play to show 652 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 3: them just because you've passed this legislation doesn't mean you 653 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 3: can enforce in a particular way, you have to give 654 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 3: them something to fight against, you know what I mean. 655 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: So that's just the other piece. 656 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and like and the rest of their policy 657 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 2: is absolutely one hundred percent evidence that if the state 658 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 2: doesn't want to follow the law, it isn't real. But 659 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 2: that also means that, like, if they can't enforce a law, 660 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 2: like it also effectively ceases to exist. That's just the 661 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 2: sort of balance of forces here. 662 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And there is a lawsuit currently against that, 663 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: and that sounds like, you know, the City of Fremont 664 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: is probably going to be removing that aiding in a 665 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: vetting clause from the resolution, but because that specific provision 666 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: is actually like in the city's municipal code as a 667 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: general provision, so you know, even if they do remove it, 668 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: charges could still be brought against somebody. So like, really 669 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: the entire ordinance needs to be eliminated all together. 670 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess do you have anything else that you 671 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 2: want to make sure that you get in before we 672 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:22,399 Speaker 2: close out? 673 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: I don't think so, not nothing that comes to mind. 674 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,879 Speaker 1: But yeah, again, I super appreciate you having a song 675 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,359 Speaker 1: to talk about this. Yeah, you know, shit is rough 676 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,439 Speaker 1: right now. I think for me personally, it's been really 677 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: helpful to direct my energy towards things in my social 678 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,760 Speaker 1: network in a way that's like constructive and helpful to others. 679 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:55,879 Speaker 1: So I would definitely suggest if you're feeling like any 680 00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: despair or like worried about becoming like black till or whatever, like, yeah, 681 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: just try to tappen and focus on things that are 682 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 1: happening in your community. It's good for you and it's 683 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 1: good for the people in your community. 684 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, just seconding that, I think like being able to 685 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,280 Speaker 3: tapp in specifically with like the types of unhoused organizing 686 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 3: and underground economies that exist wherever unhoused people exist, and 687 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 3: like being able to like tap into that and like 688 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:30,800 Speaker 3: you know, again like speaking from the perspective of a 689 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 3: house person, like really humble yourself and learn from that. 690 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 3: Like you're going to learn a whole lot more relevant 691 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,479 Speaker 3: life skills just hanging out in social settings with people 692 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,359 Speaker 3: in the street than you are in any other area 693 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,839 Speaker 3: of your life. So just go balls to the wall, 694 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 3: just start hanging out, just like spend all your time loitering, 695 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 3: Like just that's that's where we need to be right now, 696 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 3: is loitering in the street. 697 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 1: That's where the organizing is happening. So yeah, street claim Space. 698 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,279 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this has been It could happen here. Go 699 00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 2: loiter on street Quarters and make the state's life miserable 700 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 2: till it cannot do the things that is doing right now. 701 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,840 Speaker 1: It could happened here is a production of cool Zone Media. 702 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 703 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 3: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 704 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,640 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 705 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 2: You can now find sources for it could Happen here, 706 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 2: listed directly in episode descriptions. 707 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.