Speaker 1: This is taking stock with Gatlin Hay and Pim Box
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. The death toll in an attack on
Speaker 1: a Bastille Day fireworks celebration in the southern French city
Speaker 1: of Nice rose to eighty four today. More than two
Speaker 1: hundred are injured, and the French government has identified the
Speaker 1: assailant as a thirty one year old native of Tunisia.
Speaker 1: The government also extended a national state of emergency as
Speaker 1: the country absorbs the shock of the third major terrorist
Speaker 1: attack in nineteen months. Here to tell us more and
Speaker 1: help us understand this is Dr Anne Speccard, Adjunct Associate
Speaker 1: Professor of Psychiatry at Georgetown University School of Medicine, is
Speaker 1: also the director of the International Center for the Study
Speaker 1: of Violent Extremism and the author of the newly released
Speaker 1: book Isis Defectors Inside Stories of the Terrorist Caliphate. Dr Speccard,
Speaker 1: thanks very much for being with us. You're welcome to
Speaker 1: um and what I oh, go ahead. I was just
Speaker 1: gonna say, first give us your reaction and your thoughts
Speaker 1: about the attack in Nice. My thoughts, Pim, are that
Speaker 1: isis is winning on the internet, and we've got to
Speaker 1: extend the battlefield a lot of people are talking about
Speaker 1: military strikes. We are fighting in Syria and Iraq. We're
Speaker 1: degrading Isis's ability to sell oil. We've degraded their taxable territory.
Speaker 1: They're losing their territory. But over the last year I've
Speaker 1: been interviewing with my partner am At Yala thirty eight
Speaker 1: Isister Factors, and they tell us that if they lose
Speaker 1: their territory, they're just going to go underground and be
Speaker 1: a guerrilla urban warfare group. So they're not going away,
Speaker 1: and they have such internet and video capabilities. Last night,
Speaker 1: Ahmat found a video on telegram. Well actually I found
Speaker 1: it before, but he showed it to me yesterday, and
Speaker 1: it's just chilling. When you look at their cape of abilities,
Speaker 1: it looks like Madison Avenue advertising and Hollywood Blockbuster, and
Speaker 1: it's inspiring exactly the kind of attacks that just took
Speaker 1: place in these In fact, in France they showed uh
Speaker 1: being loaded with we'll look to me like liquid flammable bombs.
Speaker 1: They showed New York and showed someone strapping on a
Speaker 1: suicide vest and going out in the crowd. So these
Speaker 1: were real life depictions of parist attacks in the West,
Speaker 1: trying to inspire cadres from all over the world to attack,
Speaker 1: and ISIS spokesman called for attacks exactly like this before
Speaker 1: Ramadan had said during Ramadan and that was the last month, UH,
Speaker 1: that Muslims all over the world should attack the West,
Speaker 1: and he called for the same in two thousand and fourteen.
Speaker 1: And ISIS is on steroids on the internet, and we
Speaker 1: need to fight them. And that's what we're trying to
Speaker 1: do in our little think tank. We UM. We're taking
Speaker 1: the ISIS defector interviews and their videos, were cutting them
Speaker 1: down to short videos clips and putting them out to
Speaker 1: fight with our propaganda to say, here's the truth. Here's
Speaker 1: someone who's been on the inside that says, this organization
Speaker 1: is not Islamic. Don't come here, don't join. You'll have
Speaker 1: to rape and steal and do things that are against
Speaker 1: Islam if you do, and you won't get out. If
Speaker 1: you try to get out, they'll kill you. And but
Speaker 1: we we need to fight back. That's all I can say.
Speaker 1: And within within hours ISIS had put up propaganda posters
Speaker 1: that again we're done so well. Um. They were photoshopped
Speaker 1: and they showed London with ISIS cadres UH blooming over
Speaker 1: the skyline and the caption was we are here for
Speaker 1: New York. They had um followers of the Cross will
Speaker 1: hunt you down in the American streets, and it just
Speaker 1: went on and on with what they were putting out.
Speaker 1: So any disturbed individual that's watching this can jump on
Speaker 1: the bandwagon and say, oh, I can use my car,
Speaker 1: my truck as a as a weapon. And as we
Speaker 1: know in the US, weapons aren't hard to get anyway,
Speaker 1: Dr Speccard. Just as a note, no organized group has
Speaker 1: yet claimed responsibility for the attack, although, as you say,
Speaker 1: online accounts associated with the Islamic State and al Qaeda
Speaker 1: have cheered this act of violence and terror. Can you
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about how the resources are
Speaker 1: made available for these organizations to build these kinds of
Speaker 1: videos promote them. Uh, they must have a cadre of
Speaker 1: technology experts to do so, you know, Kim, I've been
Speaker 1: watching this for a long time, and especially over the
Speaker 1: last year as we started our project, because I've interviewed
Speaker 1: almost five terrorists now and in the last year we
Speaker 1: went after ISIS and I didn't think that we would
Speaker 1: get to interview them, and it's the first time of videotaped.
Speaker 1: So here we have two to three hour in depth
Speaker 1: interviews with ISIS defectors, and we have to cut them
Speaker 1: down to shark video clips. So we're working with Arabic
Speaker 1: video editors that are subtitling and producing our product, which
Speaker 1: you can see on YouTube under our I C s
Speaker 1: C M CEO. But what I learned was that Syria.
Speaker 1: I thought all this capability was coming from the West,
Speaker 1: that it's not true. Syria was well known as being
Speaker 1: the top video editors in the area. So they've just
Speaker 1: collopted what was already there. This is taking stock. I'm
Speaker 1: pim Fox. My co host Kathleen Hayes is on vacation.
Speaker 1: Joining us now is Dr Ann Speckhard, Adjunct Associate Professor
Speaker 1: of psychiatry at Georgetown University School of Medicine, also the
Speaker 1: director of the International Center for the Study of Violent Extremism,
Speaker 1: and Dr Speckhard is also the author of the newly
Speaker 1: released book entitled ISIS Defectors Inside Stories of the Terrorist Caliphate.
Speaker 1: We've just been listening to President Obama offering his comments
Speaker 1: at the White House. He was speaking at a reception
Speaker 1: for the Diplomatic Corps in the East Room of the
Speaker 1: White House, and he mentioned specifically the ambassador to the
Speaker 1: United States from France, Ambassador are No, pledging the solidarity
Speaker 1: of the United States with France and with the French people.
Speaker 1: He spoke in general terms, also about foreign policy and
Speaker 1: the battle against extremism. Dr Speccard in hearing some of
Speaker 1: the president's comments, were you surprised that it almost became
Speaker 1: a foreign policy statement as as much as a spirit
Speaker 1: of condolence? Yeah, he did. Uh. You spend a little
Speaker 1: time praising what he'd done over the last seven and
Speaker 1: a half years, which to me, I'm not sure it
Speaker 1: belongs in that statement, but his statement of condolences. Uh,
Speaker 1: I sure appreciate. I've been too many of the Steel days. Uh.
Speaker 1: My husband is a retired US ambassador, so we've been
Speaker 1: too many of those kind of functions. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think that's the message that has to get across,
Speaker 1: that we're extending our hand, we're sorrowful, and we do
Speaker 1: need to stand united in all of our countries because
Speaker 1: ISIS wants to divide us and they want us to
Speaker 1: hate our Muslim population. And the truth is, nine percent
Speaker 1: of Muslims thinks that the ideology of ISIS is not Islam,
Speaker 1: and that it's an anathma. They don't accept it, they
Speaker 1: don't support it, they don't want it. But if groups
Speaker 1: like this managed to divide our societies, then more troubled
Speaker 1: and disturbed people will start logging into their internet seduction
Speaker 1: and possibly fall for it. The president specifically mentioned previous
Speaker 1: attacks in countries such as Turkey, Iraqa, Bangladesh, and Saudi Arabia,
Speaker 1: and also noting that those attacks killed many Muslims as well.
Speaker 1: In your analysis, and you're speaking with the terrorists, what
Speaker 1: have you found, how do they feel about the taking
Speaker 1: of lives of fellow Muslims. Well. In their rhetoric, they
Speaker 1: will say things like in their Sharia teachers and Isis
Speaker 1: will tell them ani Muslim that's killed. If he was
Speaker 1: righteous and good Muslim, he goes immediately to paradise as
Speaker 1: martyr and wins other rewards of martyrdom. If he was not,
Speaker 1: then basically to hell with him. And they don't care.
Speaker 1: But individually, when we've talked to the factors, they're very
Speaker 1: disturbed by their fellow Muslims being killed. Um, we had
Speaker 1: many people tell us about the massacre of one of
Speaker 1: the tribes. It was a Sunni tribe in Syria, Al
Speaker 1: Shitad and Isis went after them and killed thousands of them,
Speaker 1: killed the women and children. The van and UH sunny
Speaker 1: Isis cadres told us that they had nightmares afterwards. They
Speaker 1: couldn't believe that they participated in that. They felt it
Speaker 1: was long. We also had a guard of sex slaves,
Speaker 1: and we have his YouTube video up on our site
Speaker 1: UH speaking about guarding four hundred and seventy five women
Speaker 1: that were being held for systematic rape basically and that
Speaker 1: there were Sunni women among these and it was so
Speaker 1: shocking to them. Um to take the Uzds. It was
Speaker 1: also shocking and horrible because but Isis caused the devil worshippers,
Speaker 1: so you can somehow other them. But when it was
Speaker 1: Sunni women, they were like, what's going on? So when
Speaker 1: they saw the realities of how Isis does things, they're disturbed.
Speaker 1: And we heard this often. I just readicated someone al
Speaker 1: Shabab cadres saying the same thing. You know, how can
Speaker 1: they kill how can they kill Muslims? How can't be
Speaker 1: part of this group? The president also spoken economic and
Speaker 1: political terms, speaking about economic progress, offering health benefits, education, equality,
Speaker 1: Are those uh? Are those points likely to resonate with
Speaker 1: with potential terrorists or with people that the president is
Speaker 1: seeking to uh to speak to. Well, I don't know
Speaker 1: if France what really wants to hear that right now,
Speaker 1: but I'll tell you the truth. I lived in Belgium
Speaker 1: for seven years and amid hundreds of interviews with North
Speaker 1: Africans living in Belgium and in France, and many of
Speaker 1: them told me about how different franchised they were and
Speaker 1: how they they didn't feel that they could become a
Speaker 1: part of normal society. That they went for job interviews
Speaker 1: and they were turned away. Um, they couldn't rent apartments
Speaker 1: and except in their ghetto wised areas. So even if
Speaker 1: they tried to integrate themselves into society, uh, they found
Speaker 1: it was impossible. And I particularly remember a French North
Speaker 1: African telling me liberty egalle tay and fraternity is not
Speaker 1: for us. And if they are feeling that way and
Speaker 1: that it's based in any reality, uh, that's troublesome because
Speaker 1: that's exactly what isis will come and try to take
Speaker 1: advantage of all of these terrorist groups, try to take
Speaker 1: advantage of whatever local politics are not serving certain groups
Speaker 1: of people, and uh, you know, and here we see
Speaker 1: a North African was the attacker in Crunch, which is
Speaker 1: very sad. The President also spoke about how we should
Speaker 1: not give into fear or be divided by religion and
Speaker 1: should not do the bidding of the of the terrorists.
Speaker 1: Do you think that that we still are having that
Speaker 1: debate or are are we in a sense playing into
Speaker 1: the terrorist hands? Well? I hate to say it, but
Speaker 1: I think Donald Trump when he made his statements about
Speaker 1: we shouldn't let Muslims into our country, and you raised
Speaker 1: a lot of questions about the loyalty of Muslims, that
Speaker 1: again plays into the tarists hands because ordinary Muslims that
Speaker 1: don't believe that is societeology. I mean, you can text
Speaker 1: scriptures out of any religion or twist them and say
Speaker 1: this is the true religion and that's what isis and
Speaker 1: al Qaeda do So when someone that's not prominent says
Speaker 1: we can't trust ordinary Muslims, we're playing into their hands
Speaker 1: because we're alienating the part of our society which we
Speaker 1: really should be saying. We know those groups are trying
Speaker 1: to seduce your children. How can we help you? Thank
Speaker 1: you very much. Dr Ann Speckhard is ADGECT Associate professor
Speaker 1: of psychiatry at Georgetown University School of Medicine, director of
Speaker 1: the International Center for the Study of Violent Extremism, and
Speaker 1: the author of ISIS Defectors. This is Bloomberg.