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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain where It's my

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Speaker 1: birthday and I'll pod if I want to. It's Monday,

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Speaker 1: August eighteenth, and yes, it's my birthday. Slices, Leo, Sun,

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Speaker 1: Cancer Rising, Scorpio Moon, You figure it out. On today's show,

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Speaker 1: Gwen Young, attorney and CEO of the Women Business Collaborative,

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Speaker 1: joins me to talk about how she became passionate about

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Speaker 1: humanitarian aid relief and social justice, wanting more pay, disparity

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Speaker 1: headlines around the DC Open tennis tournament, and proven ways

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Speaker 1: to move the needle on sports league contract negotiations. Pte

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Speaker 1: WNBPA plus a nonprofit helps crown the world's greatest athlete.

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Speaker 1: A candid press conference moment that'll crack you up, and

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Speaker 1: Sue Bird forever. It's all coming up right after this.

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Speaker 1: Welcome Back, Slices, Happy Monday. Here's what you need to

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Speaker 1: know today in footy news, NWSL fans got treated to

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Speaker 1: a blockbuster game on Friday night. The fourth ranked Washington's

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Speaker 1: Spirit escaped a tough contest against number seven Racing Louisville

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Speaker 1: with a draw courtesy of an unbelievable goal from forward

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Speaker 1: Rosamund Kuwassi in the one hundredth minute, Yes, one hundredth

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Speaker 1: The Spirit trailed two to one, with time quickly running out,

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Speaker 1: and Kawasi took matters into her own hands, curling one

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Speaker 1: past the keeper in the tenth minute of second half stoppage.

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Speaker 1: Time slices the way the energy built up as Kuwasi

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Speaker 1: dribbled the ball up the field toward the goal. We'll

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Speaker 1: link to a video of her shot in the show

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Speaker 1: notes so you can get the full effect. During that

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Speaker 1: same game, the crowd could be heard chanting free DC.

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Speaker 1: You might have heard, but Donald Trump declared a state

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Speaker 1: of emergency in the district on Monday due to crime,

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Speaker 1: which is actually down in DCD per Metropolitan Police Department data,

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Speaker 1: and Trump said the administration would take over the city's

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Speaker 1: police department for at least a month. This has resulted

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Speaker 1: in an increase in police presence producer mishas seen it

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Speaker 1: firsthand already, plus a number of rallies and protests, and

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Speaker 1: the arrests of some local organizers. Attorney General Pambondi also

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Speaker 1: tried to make DEA administrator Terry Cole a quote emergency

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Speaker 1: police commissioner end quote, who would assume full control over

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Speaker 1: the DC police, but the administration halted that effort after

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Speaker 1: DC's Attorney general filed a lawsuit in federal court. Fans

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Speaker 1: at the Spirit game on Friday night use their voices

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Speaker 1: to speak as one against these actions by Trump and company,

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Speaker 1: and frankly, I had goosebumps watching them do it. We'll

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Speaker 1: link to a video of the Chance in our show

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Speaker 1: notes More footing. On Saturday, the San Diego Wave best

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Speaker 1: at BFC two to one to pass the Orlando Pride

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Speaker 1: in the NWSL table. San Diego now sits in second

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Speaker 1: place in the NWSL standings, one point ahead of Orlando

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Speaker 1: and the Washington Spirit, whose matches this weekend both ended

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Speaker 1: in draws. The Kansas City Current are still in first

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Speaker 1: with a hefty eleven point lead over the Wave. More footy,

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Speaker 1: this time off the field. Congratulations are in order for

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Speaker 1: Gotham FC's Asterae Gonzales and her partner a Stefania Cruz.

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Speaker 1: The couple made an adorable pregnancy announcement via Instagram on Saturday,

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Speaker 1: which included a rotating slideshow of picks of the couple

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Speaker 1: holding hands as Stefania's baby bump, the ultrasound photos, and more,

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Speaker 1: all in black and white. It was really cute stuff.

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Speaker 1: We'll link to a Stair's post in our show notes,

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Speaker 1: and she might have gotten a little bit of energy

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Speaker 1: from that announcement. She scored a goal in Gotham FC's

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Speaker 1: game against the Houston Dash on Sunday, her eleventh of

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Speaker 1: the season, taken back the lead in the league's Golden

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Speaker 1: Boot race. That game was suspended due to lightning strikes

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Speaker 1: in the sixty third minute while tied at a goal apiece,

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Speaker 1: and resumed after we recorded this. We'll put a link

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Speaker 1: to the box score in our show notes. More football,

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Speaker 1: this time with two o's n an A. On Sunday,

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Speaker 1: the Mexican national flag football team defeated the United States

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Speaker 1: twenty six twenty one at the World Games to become

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Speaker 1: back to back title holders. Canada beat Austria thirty eight

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Speaker 1: to twenty to claim third place. You'll remember flag football

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Speaker 1: is set to make its Olympic debut at the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty eight Summer Games in La to the hardwood, the

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Speaker 1: WNBA held its first ever regular season game in Canada

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Speaker 1: on Friday, and the Seattle Storm and Atlanta Dream put

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Speaker 1: on a show. The contest went down at Rogers Arena

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Speaker 1: in Vancouver, in front of almost sixteen thousand fans, and

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Speaker 1: the Storm eked out an eighty to seventy eight dub

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Speaker 1: behind twenty one points and eleven assists from Skyler Diggins.

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Speaker 1: The dream entered the fourth quarter in a deficit and

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Speaker 1: used a huge run to get back into it, leading

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Speaker 1: the game by five with three minutes left, but the

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Speaker 1: Storm took back the lead thanks to a heater from Diggins,

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Speaker 1: who put up thirteen of over twenty one in the

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Speaker 1: final frame, and Azie Magmagor, who led the way with

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Speaker 1: the stalwart defensive effort. With the win, the Storm got

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Speaker 1: back on track after dropping six straight and simultaneously rained

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Speaker 1: on Atlanta's parade, ending the Dreams six game win streak.

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Speaker 1: During that WNBA Canada game, the Toronto Tempo expansion franchise

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Speaker 1: announced that they'll make a couple trips to Vancouver next season.

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Speaker 1: The Temple will play the majority of home games at

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Speaker 1: Coca Cola Coliseum in Toronto, but team president Teresa Resh

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Speaker 1: and general manager Monica Wright Rogers announced that the squad

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Speaker 1: will hit the court in Vancouver for two regular season

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Speaker 1: games during the twenty twenty six campaign. Some More w

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Speaker 1: another statement win for the Minnesota Lynx on Saturday as

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Speaker 1: they bested the defending champion New York Liberty eighty six

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Speaker 1: to eighty. Minnesota has now won three straight against the

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Speaker 1: Libs to make it six wins in a row overall

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Speaker 1: and wins in ten of their last eleven more w

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Speaker 1: Sue Byrd is retired, and she's still making history, y'all.

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Speaker 1: Bird became the first player in WNBA history to be

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Speaker 1: honored with the statue. On Sunday, the Seattle Storm unveiled

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Speaker 1: the statue of Bird shooting a layup in her Storm Jersey,

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Speaker 1: and the legendary point guard explained why at the ceremony.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen.

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Speaker 2: So I did want to start by just telling you

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Speaker 2: guys why I chose.

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Speaker 3: This post, because did you get to choose?

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Speaker 4: I was thinking full up, jump shot, you know, passing,

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Speaker 4: what do I want?

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Speaker 2: But some fun little fact about my career that maybe

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Speaker 2: some of you know, maybe not My very first points

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Speaker 2: in the WNBA at Kirina as a rookie, We're on aalaya.

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Speaker 2: My very final points in the WNBA, we're at climated

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Speaker 2: ledge on alaia.

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Speaker 1: So poetic. Bird retired after the twenty twenty two season

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Speaker 1: as the oldest player in WNBA history to play a

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Speaker 1: full season at age forty one, also as the league's

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Speaker 1: career assists leader, as a four time WNBA champion, a

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Speaker 1: thirteen time All Star, and a five time Olympic gold medalist.

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Speaker 1: We'll link to a video of the statue unveiling in

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Speaker 1: our show notes. It's certainly fit for a hooper of

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Speaker 1: Sue's caliber. Congrat's lady, You've also got to give a

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Speaker 1: big old shout out to another hooper, Chicago sky forward

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Speaker 1: Angel Reese, whose first signature Rebox shoe is set to

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Speaker 1: drop on September eighteenth. Reebok broke the news at an

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Speaker 1: x post on Thursday with the picture of Reese sitting

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Speaker 1: on a bench in the shoes and the caption quote

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Speaker 1: the Angel Reese one diamond Dust made for the Spotlight

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Speaker 1: available on nine to eighteen end quote. We'll link to

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Speaker 1: that post in our show notes. The diamond Dust will

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Speaker 1: be one of three ar one colorways. The other two

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Speaker 1: are me Bounds, a bright pink version, and Receipts Ready,

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Speaker 1: a black and white take on the shoe. Reese's shoe

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Speaker 1: was first slated to drop in twenty twenty six, but

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Speaker 1: instead it'll be available to purchase months ahead of schedule

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Speaker 1: for one hundred and twenty bucks. The second year player

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Speaker 1: hasn't hit the court for the Sky since late July

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Speaker 1: due to a back injury, but she's clearly still in

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Speaker 1: the game behind the scenes and we love the shoes.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of injured superstars, a quick update on Caitlin Clark,

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Speaker 1: who remains out with the right groin injury she suffered

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Speaker 1: on July fifteenth on Sunday before the Fever's night tinety

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Speaker 1: nine to ninety three win over the Connecticut Sun. Feverhead

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Speaker 1: coach Stephanie White said the hope is that Clark is

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Speaker 1: back before the end of the regular season. Kelsey Mitchell

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Speaker 1: picked up the slack in Clark's absence on Sunday with

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Speaker 1: a thirty eight point performance and Aleiah Boston added a

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Speaker 1: fourteen point thirteen rebound double double as the Fever rallied

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Speaker 1: from twenty one points down to get the win over

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Speaker 1: the Sun. Fever might have to deal with another injury issue, though,

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Speaker 1: as Sophie Cunningham left that game in the second quarter

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Speaker 1: with a knee injury and didn't return. We'll give you

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Speaker 1: an update on her status when we get it. Elsewhere

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Speaker 1: in the w Asia Wilson is cracking people up with

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Speaker 1: some press conference comments after she put up a ridiculous

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Speaker 1: thirty points and sixteen rebounds in the Las Vegas Aces

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Speaker 1: win over the Phoenix Mercury eighty six eighty three on

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Speaker 1: Friday night. She and her teammate Chelsea Gray took some

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Speaker 1: questions while describing the struggles the team has had this

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Speaker 1: season and the patience and fortitude it's taken to face them.

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Speaker 1: Wilson had this to say.

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Speaker 5: I told myself that for All Star Bray to just

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Speaker 5: let the game come to me like it is, It's

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Speaker 5: gonna be what's going to be. And if I try

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Speaker 5: to harpen or force it because I want this win

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Speaker 5: so bad for my team, it's like forcing afart.

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Speaker 1: How do you get a shit? Yep. She said that

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Speaker 1: we'll link to the video of the moment too, because

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Speaker 1: the visuals are even better. Gray's reaction was about the

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Speaker 1: same as mine. The Ace is played again on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: beating the Dallas Wings one oh six point eighty seven

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Speaker 1: to improve to twenty one and fourteen on the season. Finally,

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Speaker 1: some tennis news. The final for the Cincinnati Open is

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Speaker 1: tonight at six pm Eastern World number three Egasfontec will

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Speaker 1: take on world number seven Jasmine Paulini for the title.

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Speaker 1: All right, selic says, last week we told you about

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Speaker 1: the college soccer season kicking off, and we want to

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Speaker 1: give a shout out to the players from our show side,

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Speaker 1: Minnesota Aurora FC, some of whom are now back in

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Speaker 1: competing with their college teams. The Aurora has representation at Minnesota, Kansas, Georgia, Iowa, Drake, California,

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Speaker 1: Baptist Kentucky, Coastal Carolina, Utah State, Portland, Montana, and Colorado State.

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Speaker 1: If one of those is your school or your squad

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Speaker 1: that you root for, go find out who the Minnesota

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Speaker 1: Aurora player is and get to rooting for them. We're

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Speaker 1: wishing everyone the best of luck. We got to take

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Speaker 1: a quick break.

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Speaker 6: Now hold up a second, slices. This is producer Mish

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Speaker 6: and before we hit this break, producer Alex and I

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Speaker 6: when it was Sarah the best of luck in this

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Speaker 6: next year of life.

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Speaker 7: Happy birthday, Sarah. I hope you celebrate today by ripping

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Speaker 7: off your shirt like Brandy Chastain, doing a backflip like

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Speaker 7: Sam Kerr, and live streaming all of the festivities like

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Speaker 7: the US women's national team after the World Cup. The

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Speaker 7: women's sports community is so lucky to have you a

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Speaker 7: Nisha and I are too, so enjoy the day.

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Speaker 1: That's right, og.

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Speaker 6: We know you're basically ancient now, but if you're feeling

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Speaker 6: up for it, take yourself a little my lords shot

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Speaker 6: and uh, I don't know, hit a little slow mode

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Speaker 6: dance moment like Diana Tarazi after the Tokyo Olympics.

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Speaker 1: That is, if your back's feeling okay when we come back.

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Speaker 1: My conversation with Gwen Young sit tight joining us now.

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Speaker 1: She's the CEO of the Women Business Collaborative, an alliance

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Speaker 1: working to achieve equal position, pay, and power for women

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Speaker 1: in business. A visiting scholar at the Elliott School of

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Speaker 1: International Affairs at George Washington University. As an attorney, she's

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Speaker 1: worked as a professional advocate for women and human rights

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Speaker 1: in corporate law settings, and alumna of Smith College, Harvard

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Speaker 1: and Martin Luther King Junior School of Law, UC Davis.

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Speaker 1: Plus like eighty other schools, it's Gwen Young. Hi, Gwen,

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Speaker 1: how are you? I'm good? Are we currently pursuing any

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Speaker 1: other degrees or are we taking a break on school

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Speaker 1: for now?

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Speaker 3: We're taking a break.

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Speaker 4: We're trying to stay involved in advice, but we're always learning,

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Speaker 4: but not at schools.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's always a joy to just get to pick through

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Speaker 1: like eleven different places of education for the bio. It's

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Speaker 1: very impressive. I want to talk about how you got started,

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Speaker 1: because you've spent your life basically working in human rights

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Speaker 1: advocacy from Kenya to Kosovo, Bosnia, to and Gola, Columbia,

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Speaker 1: to dar For and all over the place. So tell

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Speaker 1: me about growing up. How did you become passionate about

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Speaker 1: humanitarian relief and social justice.

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Speaker 4: Well, I grew up in Boulder, Colorado, which is typically

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Speaker 4: a place where sort of social justice and really sort

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Speaker 4: of caring about the world. But I always wanted to

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Speaker 4: go and see other cultures, see how we could get

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Speaker 4: along with other people, and see how we could sort

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Speaker 4: of always keep peace and justice. And when I got

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Speaker 4: to the Kennedy School at Harvard, I had some great

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Speaker 4: professors who said, you know, Africa is the continent to be.

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Speaker 4: Here's where a lot of innovation and growth is happening.

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Speaker 4: And I said, this is where I want to go.

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Speaker 4: And so I when I graduated my master's, I went

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Speaker 4: straight to Malawi, which no one had ever heard of.

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Speaker 4: In front, one of my friends said, are you going

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Speaker 4: to MAUI? Here's a surfboard.

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Speaker 3: But I went over there and.

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Speaker 4: Learned so much about how we're similar and how we're different,

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Speaker 4: and how we could figure out how to kind of

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Speaker 4: build prosperous you know, communities and economies.

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Speaker 1: What skill sets do you think you have that make

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Speaker 1: you good for this work?

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Speaker 4: Well, first and foremost, I'm a people person. So I

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Speaker 4: love people, and so that allows me to really connect,

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Speaker 4: learn and listen and learn languages and so forth. Second

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Speaker 4: of all, and I'm very passionate about equity and justice,

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Speaker 4: So I want everyone to have equal opportunity when everyone

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Speaker 4: had the same things. I have the same opportunities that

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Speaker 4: I have, and I think that sort of nothing should

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Speaker 4: stand in people's way, right, So I want to make

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Speaker 4: sure people have education and healthcare and food. And I'm

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Speaker 4: you know, I work really hard and I'm really resilient.

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Speaker 4: So you know, I get up and run every morning,

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Speaker 4: and I get out and social with people, and then

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Speaker 4: I work a really hard day and it all kind

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Speaker 4: of bleeds together, and so that allows me to really

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Speaker 4: get a lot done, but also learn a lot at

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Speaker 4: the same time and figure out how am I going

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Speaker 4: to solve that problem?

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Speaker 3: Because I'm a problem solver.

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Speaker 1: I love that. Where are you now? Where are you based?

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Speaker 4: I'm in the DC area, based in Arlington, Virginia. So

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Speaker 4: that's where I've been for ten years now.

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Speaker 1: All right. One of my producers is DMV, so I

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Speaker 1: can hear her cheering in the background for that general area.

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Speaker 1: So you've done all this incredible work across all these

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Speaker 1: different continents, and I wonder where and when you started

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Speaker 1: to see women's sports fitting into your mission.

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Speaker 4: I would say pretty early on in my career, and

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Speaker 4: it was probably probably starting in Mozambique, but really kind

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Speaker 4: of when I went up to West Africa. So starting

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Speaker 4: in Mozambique, what I started to see was that sports

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Speaker 4: were away, that you could bring kids that had suffered

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Speaker 4: from war together to do something fun and to learn

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Speaker 4: how to interact and to learn how to build trust

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Speaker 4: after societies have been sort of ravaged by war. When

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Speaker 4: I was in Senegal, which is where I was before

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Speaker 4: I came to the DMV, we actually had the MBA come,

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Speaker 4: so we had some you know, US sports teams come

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Speaker 4: work with sports teams in Senegal. And Senegal is a

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Speaker 4: very sporty society, and what I started to see was

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Speaker 4: it wasn't just men that were doing the sports, it

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Speaker 4: was the women as well. So I started to really

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Speaker 4: realize that getting involved with men's sports gave men and

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Speaker 4: women a place to interact, but also give women the

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Speaker 4: skills of confidence, leadership, you know, competition, everything that sports

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Speaker 4: gives you to grow and empower yourself. And it was

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Speaker 4: really giving go roles that and I started to realize

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Speaker 4: here's an opportunity to really get women involved in sports

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Speaker 4: and involved in the business community and economic empowerment and

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Speaker 4: everything that comes with giving them equal opportunity.

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Speaker 1: At espnW, they've done this program for a number of years,

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Speaker 1: Global Sports Mentoring Program in connection with the Secretary of

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Speaker 1: State in the US government. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: that's been so fascinating to learn from all the different

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Speaker 1: participants from all over the globe is which countries are

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Speaker 1: actively invested and interested in their women and girls participating

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Speaker 1: in sport, understanding the connection between that and economic success,

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Speaker 1: higher GDP on average, all the other things that come

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Speaker 1: with women who are empowered, like you said, and confident,

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Speaker 1: and the countries that are not, and the women from

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Speaker 1: those countries that understand the power that there is in

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Speaker 1: helping bring up young girls in a space different from

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Speaker 1: the one that they grew up in. And I wonder,

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Speaker 1: across all the different countries in which you've worked, have

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Speaker 1: you noticed a difference in the success of women in

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Speaker 1: other spaces based on whether or not they were invited

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Speaker 1: to participate in sport.

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Speaker 4: We have, and in all the countries I've seen, including

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Speaker 4: the United States.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: So, but when we're talking about the overseas pieces, I said,

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Speaker 4: you know, in Someengle I noticed that women were playing sports,

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Speaker 4: which also translated into many of the ministers, the Minister

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Speaker 4: of livestock, minister of health. They were women, so higher

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Speaker 4: up in the government, but also business owners. And in fact,

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Speaker 4: we and Senegal with Dhlberg Consulting, set up a loan

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Speaker 4: program for women businesses, not micro loans for small businesses,

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Speaker 4: but loans for women owned businesses because there were so many.

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Speaker 4: So you started to see them involved in both civil

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Speaker 4: society and the government, but in businesses as well. And

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Speaker 4: so you direct correlation in as you said, girls in sports,

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Speaker 4: in peace, in the community, in peace treaties being signed

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Speaker 4: and lasting longer, women rising into government, but women rising

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Speaker 4: into business. And then we know here in the United

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Speaker 4: States right that ninety four percent of women in the

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Speaker 4: csuite have played sports, and WBCs some recent research that

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Speaker 4: shows that ten percent of the women CEOs in the

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Speaker 4: russell SMP fortune and private companies have played college sports

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Speaker 4: are beyond. So you can see a really direct link

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Speaker 4: between those qualities and sort of leadership in business and

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Speaker 4: leadership in the government.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very clearly not lip service when we talk

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Speaker 1: about the qualities of sport that carry over into business.

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Speaker 1: We do presentations through espnW again called campus conversations, going

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Speaker 1: to schools talking to the varsity athletes about how to

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Speaker 1: translate the skills that they're getting from their sports onto

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Speaker 1: a resume. Because it isn't as easy as simply saying

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Speaker 1: I did this internship, but it is about saying, you know, leadership,

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Speaker 1: working together, focusing on one goal, hard work, adversity, all

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Speaker 1: the other stuff.

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Speaker 6: I know.

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Speaker 1: You recently got fired up about issues of pay equity

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Speaker 1: around the DC Open tennis tournament. We mostly saw headlines

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Speaker 1: about Venus Williams making her triumphant return to the court

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Speaker 1: at age forty five and winning some matches, but you

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Speaker 1: wanted headlines about the pay disparity at the event. So

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Speaker 1: tell me more about why that event in particular got

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Speaker 1: your your hackles raised.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think that event in particular is one of

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Speaker 4: the very few where there is a pay disparity in

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Speaker 4: the prize money.

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Speaker 3: It's quite large. It's a two point three disparity.

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Speaker 4: Between the men and the women's whereas as you know,

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Speaker 4: all the Grand Slams and the others are are more equitable.

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Speaker 4: What does you know inspire me or where I think

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Speaker 4: we want to watch What is happening is what the

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Speaker 4: WTA is doing by twenty twenty seven and twenty thirty

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Speaker 4: three to close that pay gap and to bring that

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Speaker 4: pay gap together. But it is one of the few

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Speaker 4: because some of the other tournaments, you know, do have

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Speaker 4: this pay equity.

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Speaker 3: But the mood of all open here in d C.

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Speaker 4: It's that two point three, you know, disparity and difference,

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Speaker 4: and it's a joint effort.

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Speaker 3: It's important two.

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Speaker 1: Point three million or is that a percentage two.

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Speaker 4: Point three times larger? So the men's are about the

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Speaker 4: men's purse is about two point one and the women

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Speaker 4: is nine hundred and twenty two thousand, But it is

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Speaker 4: also a joint ATP and WTA event, So you know,

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Speaker 4: I know the WTA is working towards that they've got

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Speaker 4: a plan for twenty twenty seven, twenty thirty three, and

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Speaker 4: I know that, you know, we really need to look

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Speaker 4: at the profit sharing model from the ATP, But we

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Speaker 4: know that they're there's like Mark and and others that

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Speaker 4: have talked about this and really are committed to rectifying this.

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Speaker 4: And I think we only need to work together to

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Speaker 4: call for this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because tennis is seen as one of the few

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Speaker 1: sports with pay equity, you know, obviously at the highest levels,

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Speaker 1: from Billyging and King years and years ago to Venus

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Speaker 1: Williams at Wimbledon. In so many spaces, it's been sort

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Speaker 1: of the leader for other women in sport to ask

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Speaker 1: for and demand what they what they deserve. Why do

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Speaker 1: you think there are still some tournaments and events that

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Speaker 1: don't abide by that understanding that the overwhelming public opinion

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Speaker 1: is that it should exist, and there is I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of public pressure towards the spaces that are

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Speaker 1: not offering equal pay.

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Speaker 4: Part of it is I think you have to look

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Speaker 4: at the price structure and how the tournaments are structured.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: So if it is structured with the profit sharing or

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Speaker 4: you know model, then that is slightly different than maybe

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Speaker 4: some of the other tournaments. So part of it is

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Speaker 4: we have to look at how this is structured. And

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Speaker 4: that's why I think the WTAS made the commitment. They're saying,

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Speaker 4: give us some time because it isn't just that one

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Speaker 4: weeker matches or the one set of matches that the

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Speaker 4: city open, but it's tied to the broader sort of

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Speaker 4: preseason stuff. So if it's been profit sharing all along,

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Speaker 4: then we really have to figure out how the women's

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Speaker 4: profit sharing is brought along or you have to change

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Speaker 4: the structure. So like we know in the business sector,

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Speaker 4: you know, you have to look at the structure. You

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Speaker 4: have to look at what you can change and make

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Speaker 4: those changes and make that commitment. So what I like

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Speaker 4: to see is the fact that, as you said, people

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Speaker 4: are calling for it. They're asking for it from the viewers,

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Speaker 4: you know, to the participants, to people like Billy Jane

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Speaker 4: King and the Women's Sports Foundation and others, and that's

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Speaker 4: what's really going to make that change, because it's got

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Speaker 4: to be the consumers, the viewers, the investors that are

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Speaker 4: really saying this is unacceptable, and let's look at how

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Speaker 4: we can restructure this so there will be equal prize

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Speaker 4: money and at least not two point three times larger

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Speaker 4: than the women's. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean it feels like across sports for such a

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Speaker 1: long time, there has been the argument of, well, the

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Speaker 1: men make more money, so they should get more money,

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Speaker 1: and yet we never really dig into the systemic and

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Speaker 1: structural reasons why those profits are greater on one end,

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Speaker 1: whether that's you know, like really obvious things like a

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Speaker 1: lack of promotion, a lack of TV time, a lack

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Speaker 1: of marketing, a lack of investment, all that other stuff,

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Speaker 1: to smaller level stuff like whether it's US soccer saying oh,

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Speaker 1: we sold out of our jerseys in twenty four hours,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, you didn't make enough. Then you're missing

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Speaker 1: all that money. And then later on when you say

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Speaker 1: the women didn't make as much money as the men,

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00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 1: it's because you decided upfront that there wasn't enough demand

437
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 1: to make more than that, and you failed to capitalize

438
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: on the demand. So I think what you mentioned is

439
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 1: the understanding of the larger systems. How do you, having

440
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 1: seen it across so many different kinds of spaces, figure

441
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,199
Speaker 1: out how to take the systemic and macro issues that

442
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,919
Speaker 1: we should be zooming out and looking at to fix

443
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 1: that ultimately caused the micro issues that we want to address.

444
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's a couple of things, right.

445
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,479
Speaker 4: So, as you just mentioned for those that don't know,

446
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 4: sports is structured differently, right, and so your revenue is

447
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 4: media rights, it's ticketing, it's sponsorship, it's merchandise. It's a

448
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 4: lot of different pieces that go into the how much money,

449
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 4: which is slightly different than somebody like you know IBM

450
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 4: or Salesforce, and Salesforce did a very good job of

451
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 4: rectifying a pay gap. But I think where there's similarities is,

452
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 4: you know, you have to have you know, senior leader

453
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,360
Speaker 4: support for that. You have to have metrics and transparency.

454
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 4: You know, what is the money, what is the demand? Right,

455
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 4: and you have to you have to be able to

456
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 4: report that out and be transparent about this is what

457
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 4: it looks like. This is where there are discrepancies. And

458
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,640
Speaker 4: so I think those that senior leadership commitment that metrics

459
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 4: and transparency, there needs to be a formal commitment, you know,

460
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 4: for equal pay, it's got to be we say in

461
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 4: a lot of places publish your pay bands, right, the

462
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 4: US government does that. What's your payment? Let everybody see that.

463
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 4: You know, we do live in a culture in the

464
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 4: United States where we don't talk about how much we make.

465
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,959
Speaker 4: You know, you and I don't naturally have that conversation.

466
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,479
Speaker 4: But having that, having a conversation over paybans about what

467
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 4: people make and understanding the business model, I think is

468
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 4: incredibly important. On the positive side, because I am definitely

469
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 4: a glass half full person. This is a moment in

470
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 4: time where there's the WNBA doing the collective bargaining agreement.

471
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 4: But importantly from the systemic pieces that we were talking about,

472
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 4: viewership is merchandise sales are up. People have confidence in

473
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 4: women athletes, which means that impacts brands and sponsorships. And

474
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 4: women athletes are very active in social media, and people

475
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 4: tend to tend to respond to that. So people are

476
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 4: watching Alona Maher and Rugby right, very active social media presence,

477
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 4: and they're aligned with those brands, right, And we watch

478
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 4: what happened with Target in a different way earlier this year,

479
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 4: and so the consumers are having to say and because

480
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 4: viewership is up, and because people are interested in ticket,

481
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 4: sales are up, there is a moment in time to

482
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 4: say and that can help us translate and change the

483
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 4: system to really look at equity. Major League Soccer led

484
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 4: the way you know, and we're working across kind of

485
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 4: the different leagues in the different sports. Tennis, as you said,

486
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 4: is a certain point and in some ways the Mudhaballa

487
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 4: in the city opens kin of the fewer places because

488
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 4: there's more pay equity across the different Grand Slams and

489
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 4: other types of matches. So I think we have a

490
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,959
Speaker 4: moment in time to look at the commitment, look at

491
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 4: the data, look at the evidence, Have the consumers call

492
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 4: for it, have a social call and movement for that,

493
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 4: have the athletes themselves. But I also think the men's

494
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 4: leagues can be stepping in and they are in certain

495
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 4: places to have these conversations. They're more established business models.

496
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 4: But how do we talk about this and how do

497
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 4: we look at it to call for equity and pay.

498
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and sports is an interesting place because we actually

499
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: not always there isn't full transparency, especially in some of

500
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 1: the more nascent women's leagues, but we do tend to

501
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 1: know the pay bans, the pay ranges that people make

502
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 1: for doing those sports. In comparison to their male counterparts

503
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: in ways that we don't often have transparency for in

504
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: the business world because we don't need to address a

505
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: salary cap or a certain amount of money that you're

506
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: allowed to spend, which we do have in the sports world.

507
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: Now you mentioned leadership. Obviously more women in leadership makes

508
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: a big difference in what kind of impact the women

509
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: in that business or organization, What it has on how

510
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: they're treated, how they're paid, how they're advanced. What do

511
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: we do when leadership isn't interested in having these conversations,

512
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: when leadership is pushing back on the importance of getting

513
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: to more equitable pay, How do we have conversations with

514
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,959
Speaker 1: folks who tell us this is what's happening where I

515
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: work and not give them the simple answer of go

516
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: work somewhere else.

517
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 4: Well, I think it has I mean, this is always

518
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 4: the argument for women's equality inequity. Right is first, I

519
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 4: think you have to talk to the people who don't

520
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 4: agree with you, right, because you have to figure out

521
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 4: where that is. But I think with the leadership that

522
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 4: doesn't those conversations need to happen, right, and there needs

523
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 4: to be metrics and what we call the business case. Right,

524
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 4: These are the reasons why there needs to be you know,

525
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 4: social pressure coming from within the organization and outside of

526
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 4: the organization. But more importantly is there needs to be

527
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 4: a plan like this is how we're going to get there.

528
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 4: And I think working with leadership and working with the

529
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 4: people around leadership to convince them to see what changes

530
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 4: can be made and to be able to move the

531
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 4: pieces that we can move, right, because I think that's

532
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 4: where it comes out. Successful companies, successful pay equity does

533
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 4: come from leaders that are committed to that.

534
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 3: And in the business world, that's the board.

535
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 4: You know, the board will come in and say, if

536
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 4: this leader is not committed to this, but we see

537
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 4: this as important, that's when there will be a change

538
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 4: in leadership. As the extreme example, but the board is

539
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 4: usually the one that drives that pressure. So we need

540
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 4: to think about the investors, you know, who's calling for

541
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 4: what they're calling for? Look at Alli Financial when they

542
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 4: came in and funded women's soccer. What are we asking for?

543
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 4: What are we saying when we're going to invest And

544
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 4: that's where we can start to make both a difference

545
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 4: but also hold those leaders accountable but work with them.

546
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 4: There needs to be plans, ways to make this happen. Examples.

547
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 4: Europe's an example broadly of maybe more like women's basketball

548
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 4: being being you know in Europe, maybe paying a bit

549
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 4: more money people play on the off season, women's soccer overseas,

550
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 4: you know, things like that. To look at how that

551
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 4: happened and use those examples and provide the path forward.

552
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 1: You know, the push from WNBA players to increase their

553
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: cut of league revit via a new CBA has gotten

554
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: a lot of headlines. What are some proven approaches to

555
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 1: moving the needle on contract negotiations?

556
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 3: Well, I think.

557
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 4: Proven taxics are obviously good negotiation data and evidence. So

558
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 4: and then you hear me say that over and over

559
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 4: because we are in a stage where there is a

560
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 4: lot of a lot of data and we have with

561
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 4: the WNBA this moment in time conversations about viewership, revenue, sponsorships.

562
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 3: So I think that's one thing.

563
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 4: I think it's using the advocates and the validators that

564
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 4: you can to come in and say this is important.

565
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 4: I think it's and it's negotiating strongly. I think those

566
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 4: are some of the best things.

567
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 3: But I think the.

568
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 4: Transparency and that's where your podcast and the news and

569
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 4: the media talking about this, covering this, letting the viewers know,

570
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 4: letting people know exactly what is happening, helps with those negotiations. Actually,

571
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 4: it helps really lay out what's happening and gives the

572
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 4: leaders and the people negotiating a better chance to say,

573
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 4: this is what the consumers want, right, this is what

574
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 4: the viewers want, this is what the athletes want, this

575
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 4: is what we need to keep this, this moment alive

576
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 4: and the momentum moving with the increase in revenue, the

577
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 4: increase in viewership and increase in sponsorships.

578
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: Obviously, public shame is another proven tactic that works, whether

579
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: that comes via nudges like the T shirts that the

580
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: ladies wore at the WNBA all start, you know, pre pregame,

581
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 1: whether that's we've talked to folks that were helpful in

582
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: pushing forward the Tour de France fem and using public

583
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: figures in England to make public statements about needing to

584
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: bring the race back and making it something that women

585
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: could compete in again. And I wonder for you where

586
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: you see a line between the kind of public shame

587
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: that encourages and the kind that makes folks angry and

588
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: less likely to want to come to the table and negotiate.

589
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 4: So probably not surprising to you. I don't actually call

590
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 4: it public shame. I call it sort of validators and influencers.

591
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 4: I call it like the Taylor Swift effect, like get

592
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 4: out and vote.

593
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: That sounds nice, right, so nice, But it is.

594
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 4: The T shirts, right, it is the T shirts rather

595
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 4: and it's it's it's the T shirts, it's the publics,

596
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 4: it's the social media posts, and it's saying, you.

597
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 3: Know, we need this, right.

598
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 4: And I think when the public comes and says this

599
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 4: is what we want and social media is our tool

600
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 4: right now, right and says this is what we need,

601
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 4: and when you have people stand up and say it's

602
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 4: who says it, it's the numbers. I think in the

603
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 4: women's space, it's just as important for men to stand

604
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 4: up as it is for women to stand up and

605
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 4: say this is important, this is what we need because

606
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 4: that commitment allows a league, a team, a lawyer, a negotiator,

607
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 4: you know, a player's association right to have those conversations,

608
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 4: like the Tennis Association, the Women's Tennis Association to have

609
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 4: those conversations. And so I think it's incredibly important and

610
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 4: it means watching it means getting on the news, being

611
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 4: on shows like this. I think that's what really drives

612
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 4: drives people's momentum and fire, but also educates those that

613
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 4: do not know. We're unaware of either of the facts

614
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 4: what's going on, or how they can how they can

615
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 4: make a difference.

616
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: Do you have an example from your work in other

617
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: countries where you at first we're tasked with fixing a

618
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: problem that felt sort of untenable, or working with someone

619
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: that felt like they would never come and meet you

620
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: in the middle or come to your side, and a

621
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: surprising way that that actually changed, or a surprising way

622
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: that you found to get them to negotiate.

623
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 4: You know, I have a lot of examples from my career.

624
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 4: I think of the one of the might sound surprising

625
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 4: in the ramost sports, but overseas it would be like, well,

626
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 4: come see come to Senegal, come to Columbia, Come to Coastvo.

627
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 3: See what happened.

628
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 4: See the strength the Balkans, the women drove the peace agreement.

629
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 4: Come meet these women, Come see what they're doing. So

630
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 4: one is it. I think seeing and being on the

631
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 4: frontline so will be a part of it. Come to

632
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 4: the trial, come to see what the women's Business Association

633
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 4: is doing right. So I think that's one thing. You know.

634
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 4: The second thing is also you know, I never stopped right.

635
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 4: So I worked for a group called Doctors out Boarders,

636
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 4: and I said for a long time and I was like,

637
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 4: here's what we need to look at. And there was

638
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 4: some pushback initially, and I was like, I'm not going

639
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 4: to stop, and so I got everybody. I went and

640
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 4: talked to everybody from the patients to the doctors, to

641
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 4: the nurses, to the intake people, to the drivers, and

642
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 4: then I put together, here's what we need to do.

643
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 4: Here's the data that shows this is what we need

644
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 4: to do, and went to senior leadership and went sort

645
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 4: of everywhere and said, and this person says we should

646
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 4: do it, and this senior leader over here says we

647
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 4: should do it.

648
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 3: But I also believe in getting people in the room right.

649
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 4: The more conversations we can have, the more we can

650
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 4: agree to disagree, but talk through the issues. I think

651
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 4: that's incredibly important and hear each other because it's not

652
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 4: going to go away, and women's sports are here to stay.

653
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 4: The money is here to stay, the investment is here

654
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 4: to stay, and so the treatment needs to be you

655
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 4: know equity and equality of opportunity.

656
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: I love that you said come and see, because that's

657
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: what I'm always yelling about on this show, is that

658
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: I wish the very highest top executives at brands, media companies,

659
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: et cetera. Would be showing up at things like WNBA

660
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: All Star, Women's Final, four, NWSL Championship, WNBA Finals, all

661
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: these different spaces and actually see the the passion from

662
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: the fans, the investment from the brands who are showing up,

663
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: and the size and scope and scale of what we're

664
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: doing now in the women's sports space, because I think

665
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: some of them have such antiquated ideas about what it

666
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: looks like, and just in recent years, I think women's

667
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: sports fans have finally been able to actually appreciate what

668
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: it's been like for men's sports fans for years when

669
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: they show up at something like WNBA All Star and

670
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 1: they see all the parties and events and activations and

671
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: merch and celebrities and things like that, and the business

672
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: folks who aren't coming to see are really behind on

673
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: understanding it, and then they're making their deals or they're

674
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: making their pitches based on a reality that no longer exists.

675
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 3: I totally agree with you. And I was thinking.

676
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 4: I went to the She Believes conference in LA with Deloitte,

677
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 4: and I thought, I looked around the road was great.

678
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 3: It's Brandy Chestain, It's Billy Jean King, it's Michelle Kang.

679
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: We're all in the room.

680
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 4: We're all having these great conversations. There's contributions to Major

681
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 4: League Soccer there in the room.

682
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 3: And I'm looking around the room like, where are the businesses.

683
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 3: Where are they to hear?

684
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 4: What's going on? What's happening? We had the ad council there,

685
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,479
Speaker 4: where are they to understand? And really what's going on?

686
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 4: And to your point, home do a game?

687
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 3: Right?

688
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 4: When I went to Audifield and watched the Spirit play

689
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 4: a couple of years ago, what you see there convinces

690
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 4: you that this is a viable business model and that

691
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 4: fans are interested in that there is things too. And plus,

692
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 4: this is the most competitive, smart group of women that

693
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 4: I have met, whether that's in men's sports or women's sports.

694
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, all right, last question for you. I'm just

695
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: curious about the Women Business Collaborative. You have a ton

696
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: of different folks from different spaces coming together. How did

697
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: this start and ultimately how do you figure out it's

698
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: such a big cost to say, how do we achieve

699
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 1: equal position, pay and power for women in business? What

700
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: kind of business, what industry, at what level highest or lowest,

701
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: or front office or starting out? So how did it

702
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,959
Speaker 1: start and what kind of helps you decide where your

703
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: focus should be at any given time.

704
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 4: So it started in March of twenty nineteen, and it

705
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 4: was twenty five organizations that work on women's leadership that

706
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 4: came together and said, look, we were much stronger together.

707
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 4: If we do this collaboratively, advocate together, share data, share

708
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 4: best practices, speak as one voice, we will make a

709
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 4: difference for women's leadership in business. You know, as we've

710
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 4: developed over the past six years, we've got on an

711
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 4: industry focused a little bit about what's going on in

712
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 4: the world. Right in sports is the perfect example. You know,

713
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 4: about a year ago we were looking at it and

714
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 4: I said, look at all of these women that are

715
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 4: involved in sports, either they own a sports team, Allison Fister,

716
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 4: VP at the Celtics, look at all of these women,

717
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 4: Look at Shila Johnson, Michelle King, Sint Marshall, They're all here.

718
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 4: This is an industry when we don't understand a lot

719
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 4: about let's learn about this industry, and somebody said it's

720
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 4: like the tech industry where there are a lot of

721
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 4: women in the beginning, but I also said, this is

722
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 4: an industry that's growing, and we're looking at models from

723
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 4: Major League in soccer around pay equity, so we were

724
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 4: able to go, let's do a deep dive here and

725
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 4: really take a look at it. The other group that

726
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 4: we support and is always a constant is women owned

727
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 4: businesses and being able to support not just the C

728
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 4: suite executives, as you say, it's women own businesiness is

729
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 4: and we deliberately use the term all women right because

730
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 4: we want to make sure we're not just talking about

731
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 4: CEOs or we're not just talking about women entrepreneurs.

732
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 3: We're talking about all women in the workplace.

733
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 4: And broadly, we choose sort of based on what's going

734
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 4: on in the business world, what the companies are doing,

735
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 4: and what our partners are doing, and because we're a

736
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,959
Speaker 4: collaborative and a collective, we're able to kind of listen

737
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 4: to everybody and go, let's do a focus on corporate

738
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 4: purpose or let's do a focus on women owned businesses

739
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 4: and really build out those strong partnerships in one year,

740
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 4: we trained one hundred women in cybersecurity training and worked

741
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 4: on cybersecurity and AI issues across all industries. And so

742
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 4: it's just being opportunistic, I think is part of it

743
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 4: about meeting people where they are, but also meeting where

744
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 4: there's business opportunity. And right now women's sports is one

745
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 4: of those areas. But also the women that are leading

746
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 4: in men's sports is equally is important. So that's really

747
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 4: a part of our what we call are in the

748
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 4: Arena initiative and our focus. And as I said, I'm

749
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 4: just going to I can't forget to say this. We

750
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 4: started this podcast talking about how this is pathways for

751
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 4: girls into careers, empowerment and job opportunity. And the skills

752
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 4: in sports, or the skills in working in the sports

753
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 4: industry are transferable to the energy industry, to the insurance industry.

754
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 4: So there is an opportunity here to really create those

755
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 4: pathways and allow women to move in and out of

756
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 4: their careers and in and out of their passions.

757
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think obviously one of the biggest things

758
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: about sports is that the job is public facing, the inspiration,

759
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: the representation, the way that these women athletes inspire, empower educate, etc.

760
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: Sets them apart from other leaders in the sense of

761
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: how big a range of the people watching them and

762
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: experiencing their work is compared to someone who's in an

763
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: office doing great work, doing huge things, creating policy, doing

764
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: stuff that will eventually trickle down and affect millions. But

765
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: it's the women on our TVs that are doing these

766
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: things that we witness every day that I think give

767
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: permission to so many other girls and women to speak up,

768
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: to demand more task for what they deserve and all

769
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: those other things. So I love how much of a

770
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: recognition there is that the women's sports space is leading

771
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,439
Speaker 1: the way in ways that can be educational for other

772
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: spaces as well. And I love that you see that

773
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 1: because you very clearly bring a ton of expertise and

774
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: again education and life experience to the space and applying

775
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: it to women's sports can only help this thing that

776
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: we love so much. So thanks Gwenn, and thanks for

777
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: the time.

778
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 3: Thank you, Sarah.

779
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 4: Thank you so much forasing that word inspirational, because that's

780
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 4: I think why we're all here, So thank you very much.

781
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: Thanks so much to Gwen for joining us. We got

782
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: to take another break when we come back. What I

783
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 1: want for my birthday from you slices. Welcome back slices.

784
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: We love that you're listening, but we want you to

785
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: get in the game every day too, So here's our

786
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: good game play of the day. I'd like a little

787
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: birthday present from all of you, hopefully an easy one.

788
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 1: Do something extra nice for someone today. Buy the person

789
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: behind you in line their coffee, Volunteer at your local

790
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: animal shelter or maybe a soup kitchen. Gather up some

791
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 1: of those socks, t shirts and shoes you never wear

792
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: anymore and donate them, or give some money to a

793
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: cause that matters to you. The world kind of sucks

794
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: right now, but we can always create a little light.

795
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 1: So if you remember to do something nice today, send

796
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: a note my way and let me know it'll make

797
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: my birthday just a little bit brighter. We always love

798
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 1: to hear from you, so hit us up on email

799
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a

800
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: voicemail at eight seven two two o four fifty seventy

801
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 1: and don't forget to subscribe, Rate and review. It's easy.

802
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: Watch piano bars rating ten out of ten songs we

803
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: all know the words to review for my Birthday. I

804
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: threw yet another epic costume party this past Saturday. This

805
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: time it was a sequel to a previous bash. Back

806
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, I invented the Holiday do Over Day,

807
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: during which we celebrated every major holiday we missed to

808
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty COVID show Down, all in one day,

809
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: in a different location for each, with a different costume

810
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: for each. Now that year we did Saint Patrick's Day,

811
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 1: Fourth of July, Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's. Well.

812
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: Do Over Day came back this year by popular demand,

813
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: and this time we did Opening Day, Sinko Tomo Pride,

814
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 1: Christmas in July, Labor Day, and New Year's. Every single

815
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 1: costume had to fit in one backpack that we carried

816
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: around all day, and we went to different stops for

817
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: each one. Now Labor Day was supposed to be a

818
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: party on the beach, but thunderstorms forced a pivot to

819
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 1: a nearby piano bar that we basically took over, about

820
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: forty of us strong in the wackiest, weirdest costumes, singing

821
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: and dancing along to every song. At one point I

822
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: was scream singing Pink Pony Club next to a hot dog,

823
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: a pickle, and a lobster. When in doubt, y'all go

824
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: to the piano bar. Now it's your turn to rate

825
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,919
Speaker 1: and review. Give us five stars, say something nice about us.

826
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow. Good game, Gwen, Good game,

827
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: Sue Bird. You losing your voice because you were scream

828
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: singing Pink Pony Club next to a pickle. Good Game

829
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in

830
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find

831
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

832
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers

833
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are

834
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutterer. Our

835
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer.

836
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Lucy Jones. Production assistance from Avery

837
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: Loftis and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain