1
00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,040
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

2
00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,920
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring

3
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,520
Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

4
00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,600
Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

5
00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,479
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

6
00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,880
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Well, boy, I'll tell

7
00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,680
Speaker 1: you what has been a fascinating story in Wall Street

8
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,560
Speaker 1: has been Bill Hwang and Archagos Capital. I mean, it

9
00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,640
Speaker 1: just bursts onto the scenes a week ago, twenty billion

10
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,400
Speaker 1: dollar fund. Nobody had heard about it until we all

11
00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,120
Speaker 1: heard about it at the same time. And I'll tell

12
00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,080
Speaker 1: you Eric Shatsker and his team at Bloomberg News they

13
00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,240
Speaker 1: were very very early on this story. They were absolutely

14
00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:46,960
Speaker 1: and they've been on top of it ever since. Eric

15
00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,479
Speaker 1: joins us now with the latest. Eric Schatsker, He's at

16
00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,920
Speaker 1: her large at Bloomberg News. Eric, thanks so much for

17
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 1: joining us here. This is just an extraordinary story. The

18
00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,360
Speaker 1: numbers are just amazing. Twenty billion dollars and then gone

19
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,520
Speaker 1: in two days. What's the latest, Paul? It is absolutely

20
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,800
Speaker 1: mind boggling. If you think about it. A guy who

21
00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,960
Speaker 1: had been a hedge fund manager, so let's give him

22
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,479
Speaker 1: some credit. Bill Wong starts a family office in with

23
00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,200
Speaker 1: you know, as we understand, it's something north of two

24
00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,319
Speaker 1: million dollars, so he's already rich. And he builds this

25
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,640
Speaker 1: family office over time, making bets mostly in tech stocks,

26
00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,000
Speaker 1: Expedia LinkedIn. Some of those are kind of names from

27
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,560
Speaker 1: the past, because Lincoln was acquired by Microsoft, of course,

28
00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,760
Speaker 1: but he also bet on Google, he bet on Amazon,

29
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,080
Speaker 1: and over the years he steadily took on more and

30
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,119
Speaker 1: more and more leverage. And as we all know, having

31
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,840
Speaker 1: watched and in your case, participated in Wall Street for

32
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,160
Speaker 1: many years, leverage is a double edged sword. When things

33
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,480
Speaker 1: are going your way, you can become fabulously successful. And

34
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,840
Speaker 1: in his case, yes, his fortune actually at one point

35
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,360
Speaker 1: exceeded thirty billion dollars. But the times things started to

36
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,680
Speaker 1: go pear shaped. Right week of March twenty two, Viacom

37
00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,480
Speaker 1: trades down, Mare Jean Carl alarm bell start ringing, and

38
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,680
Speaker 1: Bill Joan goes from twenty to zero effectively overnight. Yeah.

39
00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 1: The one thing I one thing I don't get is

40
00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,680
Speaker 1: how did he go from so much to so little

41
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,120
Speaker 1: just trading options? Because he not options these were swap

42
00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:22,359
Speaker 1: agreem so so so, but he's trading derivatives that um no, no, no, no,

43
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,800
Speaker 1: he's he's he is entering into swap agreements just so

44
00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 1: that everybody understands it, because it is complicated derivative stuff.

45
00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,080
Speaker 1: As you say, Mat, he enters into a swab agreement,

46
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,679
Speaker 1: it gives him exposure to the underlying stock. It's like

47
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,040
Speaker 1: owning the stock, except that you don't actually have it

48
00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,880
Speaker 1: in your possession. But because you're levered, because the swap

49
00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,200
Speaker 1: agreement allows you to level up five times, you know

50
00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,079
Speaker 1: what happens if you're five times levered, right, stock goes down,

51
00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,919
Speaker 1: your equity is gone. And his portfolio cratered the week

52
00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,519
Speaker 1: of March twenty two. That's how whatever margin he'd posted disappeared,

53
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,280
Speaker 1: and that's how his equity blue to smithering, so much

54
00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 1: so that the banks which ended up owning the risk

55
00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,760
Speaker 1: and having to sell it. And we've seen that, Credit Swiss,

56
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 1: Golvin Sachs, Morgan Stanley selling shares of viacom g s

57
00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,360
Speaker 1: x i Q, all of his positions. Some of those banks,

58
00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,520
Speaker 1: Credit Swiss among them, ended up taking enormous losses four

59
00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,760
Speaker 1: point seven billion dollars the head of the investment bank

60
00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 1: is gone, the head of risk is gone, another half

61
00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:30,440
Speaker 1: half dozen executives gone. It's incredible how much damage one

62
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:35,040
Speaker 1: guy running his own family office. Your story paints this

63
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,880
Speaker 1: incredible dichotomy because on one hand, he's by all accounts,

64
00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:45,520
Speaker 1: a very nice guy. Um. You know, Julian Robertson loves him. Um,

65
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 1: he's religious, he's got a big charity that he cares about.

66
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,800
Speaker 1: Charity and family are two of his three main things. Right.

67
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:58,160
Speaker 1: On the other hand, Um, he had a sixty million

68
00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,560
Speaker 1: dollar settlement for insider trading, his hedge fund pled guilty

69
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:07,120
Speaker 1: to wire fraud. Um. And he seems kind of like

70
00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:11,400
Speaker 1: a traitor sociopath because he says he's not afraid of

71
00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,320
Speaker 1: death or money, which you see how that ends up? Right, Yes,

72
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,160
Speaker 1: we we have. I would say, without using the words sociopath,

73
00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,720
Speaker 1: that what you've just sketched out is the internal paradox

74
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,719
Speaker 1: of a Bill Wong. On the one hand, pillar of

75
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:31,480
Speaker 1: his church community. This guy helped thirteen hundred North Koreans

76
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,279
Speaker 1: escape the Hermit Kingdom to freedom. The guy is doing

77
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:40,240
Speaker 1: good stuff. And on the other hand, he's got this addiction. Effectively,

78
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,560
Speaker 1: or what appears to be an addiction to casino like

79
00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,480
Speaker 1: risk taking. He's a gambler. Most of the great gamblers

80
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,240
Speaker 1: in the world no one to take some chips off

81
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,279
Speaker 1: the table. This guy never took any chips off the table.

82
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,120
Speaker 1: The only chips he took off the table he put

83
00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,039
Speaker 1: into his foundation. And thank goodness he did, because it's

84
00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,840
Speaker 1: gone on to do good work and will continue to

85
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,320
Speaker 1: do good work because, so far as we understand it

86
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,559
Speaker 1: wasn't exposed in this blow up. So Eric about thirty

87
00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,679
Speaker 1: seconds left. This seems to be I guess the second

88
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,720
Speaker 1: life for Bill Huang? Is there a third? It's actually

89
00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,040
Speaker 1: the Yeah, we're with the third act. Right, he was

90
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,560
Speaker 1: tiger than he had, his own hedge fund, had archaeos.

91
00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,960
Speaker 1: Where does he go from here? If risk taking is

92
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,760
Speaker 1: in his blood and he just like you know, Michael Jordan,

93
00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:27,280
Speaker 1: can't stop making legats, right, you'll see him back doing something.

94
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,159
Speaker 1: Is he going to be given the same kind of leverage? No?

95
00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,320
Speaker 1: Almost certainly not right. Uh, there's just too many black

96
00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,520
Speaker 1: marks on his record now for any bank to want

97
00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,479
Speaker 1: to give him. But will he be doing something you

98
00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,560
Speaker 1: know that involves incredible risk taking. You'd have to expect

99
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,240
Speaker 1: that he would because it's as as we've learned the

100
00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,279
Speaker 1: course of our reporting, it's in his nature. Well, yeah,

101
00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,880
Speaker 1: I mean this is also a thing I was thinking

102
00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,120
Speaker 1: about as I was reading your piece, Eric, Where does

103
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:55,720
Speaker 1: he go from here? Because you want to see him

104
00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,760
Speaker 1: come back again. You almost want to see him get

105
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,159
Speaker 1: back in right. Um, and maybe now that sports betting

106
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,239
Speaker 1: is becoming more acceptable in the US, he can figure

107
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,200
Speaker 1: out a way to do that. In any case, Eric

108
00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,960
Speaker 1: Shasker writes the cover story for Bloomberg Business Week. Um,

109
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,480
Speaker 1: definitely check it out, if not on the newsstands, at

110
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:18,520
Speaker 1: least online or on the Bloomberg terminal. You're talking about

111
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:23,240
Speaker 1: the initial job claims number, and Um, it's interesting that

112
00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:28,880
Speaker 1: we've seen these initial job jobs claims numbers still at

113
00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,960
Speaker 1: a very high level. I think, Um, I'm not sure,

114
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 1: but I think we still haven't come down under the

115
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:41,160
Speaker 1: record high from the Great Financial Crisis. In any week,

116
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,560
Speaker 1: Let's bring in Lindsay Pieza to talk about this. She's

117
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:49,080
Speaker 1: chief economist at Steeple Financial out of Chicago. Lindsay, what's

118
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,359
Speaker 1: the problem with the labor market and that you know,

119
00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,080
Speaker 1: we add nine sixteen thousand jobs and we have these

120
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,720
Speaker 1: incredible manufacturing figures I s M is off the charts,

121
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,760
Speaker 1: p M I is off the charts. Everything looks like

122
00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,719
Speaker 1: it's coming back full force, but we keep getting huge

123
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,400
Speaker 1: initial jobless claims weeks. Well, I think this recognizes the

124
00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,520
Speaker 1: fact that the recovery is going to be somewhat uneven.

125
00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,480
Speaker 1: It's not going to be this very simple flip the

126
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,320
Speaker 1: switch scenario everyone goes back to work. It's going to

127
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,240
Speaker 1: be this back and forth as ebbing and flowing of improvement.

128
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,960
Speaker 1: And yes, we have seen payrolls jumped, we've also seen

129
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,280
Speaker 1: jobless claims remain elevated. So again, this really speaks to

130
00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,600
Speaker 1: the notion that it's going to be some time before

131
00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:36,560
Speaker 1: the US economy recovers to a sustainable upward trajectory. I

132
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,800
Speaker 1: think also when we see this on evenness in the

133
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 1: labor market in it imparts reflects some of the policy

134
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,440
Speaker 1: measures that we've seen out of Washington. Remember we're still

135
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 1: talking about extremely generous unemployment benefits, and some businesses, particularly

136
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,800
Speaker 1: small businesses in the service sector, have reported that it's

137
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,600
Speaker 1: uh it's very difficult to reconnect with employees because of

138
00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,960
Speaker 1: these very generous unemployed this benefits. So I think there's

139
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 1: a number of moving pieces a number of different variables.

140
00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,040
Speaker 1: But the take home is really it's not going to

141
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,960
Speaker 1: be as simple as we're vaccinated. Let's reopen the economy

142
00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,280
Speaker 1: back to pre pandemic activity levels. All right, So, lindsay,

143
00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,880
Speaker 1: you know, right now we're taking a look at the

144
00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,040
Speaker 1: President of Biden's latest fiscal stimulus plan at two point

145
00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,640
Speaker 1: to five trillion dollar plan. What do you make of that? Is? That?

146
00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,840
Speaker 1: Is it? Do you think that the focus and the

147
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,120
Speaker 1: strategies behind it our sound or what would you like

148
00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,720
Speaker 1: to see in fiscal stimulus? Well, at this point, with

149
00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,760
Speaker 1: the economy showing signs of improvement, vast improvement in the

150
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:46,560
Speaker 1: labor market, in manufacturing and services and housing, I think

151
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,839
Speaker 1: we really need to take a pause in terms of

152
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,840
Speaker 1: any additional fiscal um spending at this point. Remember, the

153
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,280
Speaker 1: President just passed is near two trillion dollars spending package

154
00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,240
Speaker 1: just a few weeks ago. So the impact of APT

155
00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,160
Speaker 1: has not even filtered through the economy. We're not even

156
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,720
Speaker 1: seeing that in the data yet. The March non farm

157
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:10,480
Speaker 1: payroll report more more likely reflected the December stimulus that

158
00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,880
Speaker 1: we saw under President Trump. Excuse me, So I do

159
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,000
Speaker 1: think that at this point the government should be taking

160
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 1: a breath. They should be looking at thinking maybe more

161
00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,960
Speaker 1: of a longer term reopening plan and perhaps getting a

162
00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,520
Speaker 1: second plan in place should we see a second route

163
00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,800
Speaker 1: pandemic occur in our in our near terms. So I

164
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,320
Speaker 1: don't think additional spending is the answer at this point.

165
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,000
Speaker 1: I am very concerned about the debt level. I'm very

166
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:42,559
Speaker 1: concerned about inflation longer term, and this this unsatiable appetite

167
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,920
Speaker 1: for federal spending I think really needs to be nipped

168
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,199
Speaker 1: in the bud. It's crazy if you're a journalist, though,

169
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,160
Speaker 1: I mean, what a story to cover? I mean, how

170
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,520
Speaker 1: many times in history have we spent you know, five

171
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,360
Speaker 1: trillion extra dollars in a twelve month period, and you

172
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,040
Speaker 1: know the Fed is stepped up with how much emergency

173
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:08,240
Speaker 1: uh you know balance sheets trillions more like like seven

174
00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 1: trillion more. It's the numbers are mind bottling, As Adam

175
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,280
Speaker 1: Johnson used to say, But how how does that create inflation? Um?

176
00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,360
Speaker 1: Is it? Does it just create transitory inflation? Or do

177
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,200
Speaker 1: we get some real inflation from that kind of spending? Well,

178
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,840
Speaker 1: so when we talk about the transitory concerns of inflation

179
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,360
Speaker 1: that the FETE has been mentioning, they're not referring to

180
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,240
Speaker 1: the massive expansion of the money supply per se. What

181
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,200
Speaker 1: they're referencing is the fact that we do expect prices

182
00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,840
Speaker 1: on an annual basis to take higher because those low

183
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,439
Speaker 1: loads of twenty twenty are actually falling out of the calculation.

184
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,360
Speaker 1: So just by the nature of the mathematical equation, we

185
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,839
Speaker 1: expect that headline index to take higher in the coming

186
00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,360
Speaker 1: month as we move further into the summer. But from

187
00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,600
Speaker 1: their standpoint, they're saying this, this calculation is falling out

188
00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,400
Speaker 1: of reature prices is going to be temporary, and they

189
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,480
Speaker 1: expected inflation to remain nearer that to FIR set level

190
00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,800
Speaker 1: by the end of one going forward. However, when we

191
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,120
Speaker 1: talk about this massive expansion of the federal the federal

192
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:14,400
Speaker 1: government balance sheet, all of these dollars flooding into the marketplace,

193
00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,640
Speaker 1: chasing after goods, chasing after production, that's where we see

194
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,640
Speaker 1: that that increase in inflation, and that's where the market

195
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,680
Speaker 1: is concerned will drive the Fed's hand, or force the

196
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,400
Speaker 1: Fed's hand to raise race sooner than they're telling us

197
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,840
Speaker 1: they will. Lindsay, thank you so much for joining us

198
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,880
Speaker 1: yet again. Lindsay PEGSA, Chief Economists for Stephle joining us

199
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,199
Speaker 1: on the phone from Chicago, talking to us about fiscal stimulus.

200
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,520
Speaker 1: Here again, we've haven't really felt the full benefits, arguably

201
00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,560
Speaker 1: of the most recent two trillion dollars, while more is

202
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:56,160
Speaker 1: being exactly in Berlin, Germany. I guess not, Matt. You know,

203
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,480
Speaker 1: we're so fortunate here am Radio to be able to

204
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,760
Speaker 1: tap into the expertise of leading physicians and scientists from

205
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 1: around the world UH during these past fourteen months to

206
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,240
Speaker 1: really get a sense of and and really learn more

207
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:13,199
Speaker 1: about the virus UH therapeutics and now about vaccines. And

208
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,760
Speaker 1: our next guest certainly is on that list. Dr Stephen Corwin.

209
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,760
Speaker 1: He's a president and chief executive officer of New York

210
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 1: Presbyterian Hospital. He joined us on the phone from New

211
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,400
Speaker 1: York City. UH. Dr Corwyn, thanks so much for joining

212
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,320
Speaker 1: us here. I guess where we're at right now is

213
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,200
Speaker 1: you know people are they absolutely feel like we're just

214
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,880
Speaker 1: on the precipice of getting to the other side of this.

215
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,480
Speaker 1: The vaccinations are ramping up, yet we're seeing cases surge

216
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,319
Speaker 1: in certain parts of the country like Michigan and others.

217
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,880
Speaker 1: How do you think people should be I guess conducting

218
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:52,240
Speaker 1: themselves these days here as we're right on the edge. Well,

219
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,160
Speaker 1: I think we're at the beginning of the end, but

220
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,240
Speaker 1: we're not at the end. And for for people who

221
00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,640
Speaker 1: are football fans, you don't want to spike the ball

222
00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,320
Speaker 1: at the five yard line. I think that. I think

223
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,800
Speaker 1: the reality is we still have to be careful. We

224
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 1: still have the variant floating around. We still haven't vaccinated

225
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,320
Speaker 1: it everybody. We haven't gotten to hurt immunity. So if

226
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,440
Speaker 1: we can hold on a little bit longer, uh, let's

227
00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,160
Speaker 1: try not to have people at a Texas Rangers game.

228
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,080
Speaker 1: We'll get there, um, but it's a race between the

229
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,960
Speaker 1: variants and how much we open versus getting people vaccinated.

230
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,439
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm really hopeful that by summertime we'll

231
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,240
Speaker 1: be in in terrific shape. But we've just got to

232
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,040
Speaker 1: hang in there. And look, I know it's daunting. Kids

233
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,679
Speaker 1: home from school, people want to get back to the

234
00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,680
Speaker 1: way things were, um, et cetera. But we still have

235
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,360
Speaker 1: to be cautious. How do you think the vaccine rollout

236
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,680
Speaker 1: is going. I mean, I know it's going quickly in

237
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:54,040
Speaker 1: the US. I think more than sixty five million people

238
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,880
Speaker 1: have received at least one shot, But is it um.

239
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:06,080
Speaker 1: Is it being distributed uh equally across all different classes, races, creeds.

240
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,679
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say exactly. You get my point, right?

241
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,880
Speaker 1: Is there? Of course? Of course there are a problem

242
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,840
Speaker 1: that we've I think there's been a great deal of emphasis.

243
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:19,160
Speaker 1: Certainly we've placed a great deal of emphasis on equitability

244
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,000
Speaker 1: and giving people access to this. I would say two

245
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:27,360
Speaker 1: things to preface my following remarks. The first is, I

246
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,280
Speaker 1: think that the Trump administration got a lot of things

247
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:35,120
Speaker 1: wrong with with COVID, but they got the vaccine development

248
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 1: program right, and the Biden administration has capitalized on that

249
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,600
Speaker 1: in terms of getting this rolled out as quickly as possible.

250
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 1: And you know, we now have Fiser Maderna and Jay

251
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,960
Speaker 1: and Ja that were now giving and we have to

252
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,760
Speaker 1: evaluate Astra Zeneca in light of uh, some concerns about

253
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,960
Speaker 1: data safety monitoring. That being said, I think that you

254
00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 1: have to educate everybody to sort overcome vaccine hesitancy and

255
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,840
Speaker 1: so truly get population hurt immunity. We're gonna have to

256
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,640
Speaker 1: start vaccinating kids, which is probably not going to really

257
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,800
Speaker 1: happen until we get into the fall and the winter,

258
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,080
Speaker 1: meaning children under the age of twelve. So we still

259
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,160
Speaker 1: have a ways to go in terms of children getting

260
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,760
Speaker 1: hurt immunity. I think we can get the hurt immunity

261
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,200
Speaker 1: by in the September time frame for the adult population.

262
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,600
Speaker 1: And I think we're making a lot of strides on

263
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:30,640
Speaker 1: equitability of distribution. Uh. Dr Cormyn. I'd love to get

264
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:35,280
Speaker 1: a sense of how the frontline workers at New York

265
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,920
Speaker 1: Presbyterian are doing. I mean, you know, hospitals across the country,

266
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,840
Speaker 1: but I really think about New York City a year

267
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,280
Speaker 1: ago from today and and how incredibly taxed they were.

268
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,440
Speaker 1: How are the frontline folks doing at New York Presbyterian. Well,

269
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,880
Speaker 1: you know, look, uh running towards danger on this one, right.

270
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:59,840
Speaker 1: I think we have just absolutely terrific people. I think

271
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,800
Speaker 1: they've done an amazing job, but they're getting tired. Uh

272
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,160
Speaker 1: and we still have a lot of COVID in the environment.

273
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,880
Speaker 1: So um, I think that people see that we were

274
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,200
Speaker 1: turning the corner. But it's been a it's been a

275
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,720
Speaker 1: tough fifteen months for the country and as certainly a

276
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,920
Speaker 1: tough fifteen months for the front line workers. But everybody

277
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 1: in the country should be proud of the effort that

278
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,400
Speaker 1: all the front line workers across the country put into

279
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,160
Speaker 1: this because we wouldn't be where we are as a

280
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,440
Speaker 1: country without it. And I can't thank every one of

281
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,680
Speaker 1: our employees enough for everything that they did. And many

282
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,560
Speaker 1: of them lost family members during the course of this pandemic,

283
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you guys know people that were lost.

284
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,200
Speaker 1: It really has been pretty horrific. But it also I

285
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,880
Speaker 1: think shines a spotlight on how hard health care professionals work.

286
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 1: I mean, just in terms of sheer hours. It's pretty

287
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 1: shocking to people from any other industry. Do you think

288
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 1: there's some kind of progress that can be made in

289
00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 1: either paying them better or getting them safer working conditions? Well, look,

290
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,440
Speaker 1: I think that, uh, we collectively made a mistake as

291
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,679
Speaker 1: a country in terms of the amount of ppe we

292
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:12,240
Speaker 1: had in stock. The supply chain was very fragile. So yeah,

293
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,040
Speaker 1: we have to really solidify our supply chains, make sure

294
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 1: that we have more onture manufacturing, make sure that the

295
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,000
Speaker 1: supply chains are more robusts so we don't have a

296
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,479
Speaker 1: repeat of that that was really quite tenuous. As as

297
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,440
Speaker 1: as you will remember in terms of paying people more. Look,

298
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,480
Speaker 1: I'm a firm believer, uh that you have to pay

299
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,200
Speaker 1: people uh for for what they do. The minimum wage

300
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,679
Speaker 1: that we pay is nineteen dollars an hour. I know

301
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,520
Speaker 1: people are talking about what should the minimum wage in

302
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,840
Speaker 1: the country be, but we people deserve to be able

303
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,440
Speaker 1: to make a fair living, and if they're in healthcare,

304
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 1: they should be paid appropriately. In my opinion, Dr Stephen Corowen,

305
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,960
Speaker 1: thanks so much for your time. Really appreciated, Dr Stephen

306
00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,080
Speaker 1: Corowin the CEO and presidency of New York Presbyteria in

307
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,160
Speaker 1: which did so much to help a city under siege.

308
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 1: Really and I think um, at least in the US

309
00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 1: or worldwide, everyone's appreciative of healthcare professionals. This is Bloomberg.

310
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,479
Speaker 1: It is time for Bloomberg Opinion. We're joined today by

311
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,360
Speaker 1: Jared Dillion. He's a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion. He's also

312
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,680
Speaker 1: editor and publisher of the Daily Dirt Map and investment

313
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:30,360
Speaker 1: stratagist at Malden Economics. He's based in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

314
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,679
Speaker 1: Is that with a fascinating column here arguing that quote

315
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,680
Speaker 1: SPACs aren't the only examples of late capitalism. Needs suggests

316
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 1: that excess is throughout the financial system, raised the odds

317
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 1: that the next recession could be our last as a

318
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 1: free market economy. Jared, thanks so much for joining us here.

319
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,239
Speaker 1: Tell us about why you think the next recession might

320
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,400
Speaker 1: be the last one in this economy. You know what's

321
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:58,199
Speaker 1: funny because when I started to write this article, I was, um,

322
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,840
Speaker 1: I have a I have a cat that is overweight,

323
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 1: and we were buying her a food puzzle. I don't

324
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:05,879
Speaker 1: know if you know what the food puzzle is, but

325
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,639
Speaker 1: it makes it difficult for a cat to get the food.

326
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 1: And you know, I looked this up on Amazon and

327
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,399
Speaker 1: I ordered it in two seconds and I had it

328
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 1: delivered to my house in two days. And it kind

329
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 1: of reminded me of two thousand seventeen, when you know,

330
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 1: if you're on if you spend any time on Twitter,

331
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: there was all this discussion on weight capitalism and all

332
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 1: this excesses of capitalism, and that got me thinking about

333
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,679
Speaker 1: SPACs and a lot of the stuff that's going on today.

334
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,159
Speaker 1: But but but but what so it's going to be

335
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 1: the end? I mean, what does that mean if if

336
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,159
Speaker 1: there's another big recession, we're going to have the state

337
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 1: really take over. I think there was I think what's

338
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,159
Speaker 1: happening is that from a sentiment standpoint, the bull market

339
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 1: has gone on for so far, and we're starting to

340
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 1: see a lot of excesses of capitalism. Money has gotten easy.

341
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 1: And yes, I do think that we'll see more state

342
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 1: interference in the economy if we have another downturn. And

343
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 1: you know, we're trying very hard to prevent a downturn,

344
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 1: but that has taken the position that it's actually trying

345
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: to prevent recessions. It's a very different feed than what

346
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,959
Speaker 1: we had twenty years ago. All right, So, Jared, I mean,

347
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 1: we we step back here and we take a look

348
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 1: at the marketplace and just over the last yeah called

349
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 1: six or twelve months, you know, during this pandemic, we've

350
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 1: had some of the Reddit trades, the game stops of

351
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 1: the world, We've had this explosion in SPACs. I mean,

352
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 1: you know, one of the lot of folks are saying, boy,

353
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: this is a lot of froth in this market. There's

354
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,360
Speaker 1: a lot of excess in this market. There's a lot

355
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 1: of speculation in this market. Do you see that as well? Yeah,

356
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 1: I do see that. And you know, the SPACs in particularly.

357
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: The interesting thing about SPACs is, you know, I actually

358
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 1: think SPACs player play an important role. I mean, the

359
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,959
Speaker 1: I P O process is kind of broken. It's kind

360
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 1: of compresome, and there's been some actually really great companies

361
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: that have gone public as SPACs, but there's also been

362
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that is terrible and uh is

363
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,360
Speaker 1: a joke. So you know this is there's a lot

364
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: of excesses in this ball market, and if it continues,

365
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 1: we're going to get more excesses. So I wonder, though,

366
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 1: what um society looks like after the end of free

367
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 1: market capitalism. Have you ever seen the movie, the animated

368
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:36,880
Speaker 1: film Wally, because I love I love the dystopian future

369
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 1: of me getting amazingly fat, sitting in a chair that

370
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 1: moves around a cruise ship, just drinking slurpees all day

371
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: and watching TV. Like, I'm not opposed to that. If

372
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: the robots take over and we just get paychecks, is

373
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 1: that how it's gonna work? Uh? You know what, it's

374
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 1: it's actually funny. I mean it's bringing up the uh

375
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: you know, getting paychecks. Uh here a myrtle b This

376
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: is uh, you know, changing the subject a little bit.

377
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 1: You know, this is a hospitality town. I mean it's

378
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 1: a vacation town. So it's it's hotels and restaurants. That's

379
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: basically what we have here and the Myrtle Beach is

380
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 1: in right because they cannot attract any talent to help

381
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 1: out at these businesses as housekeepers and as stubbs or

382
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: as cooks, because we are paying people to stay home,

383
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: and it's it's you can't get you can't get meals,

384
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 1: you can't get dinner reservations, you check into your hotel

385
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: at midnight. This isn't really extreme situation here on Myrtle Beach.

386
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,360
Speaker 1: I don't think this the story has really gotten out yet.

387
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: That is fascinating. I mean, you know, I we we

388
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: get these jobs claims numbers that we got uh this morning, Jared,

389
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: and yet I walked down main street of any town

390
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: in New Jersey and almost every store has a help

391
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: wanted not rant it it's uh, it's I'm assuming it's

392
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,160
Speaker 1: a it's a low wage kind of clerk tie type

393
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: of role, but every business is looking for people. Lindsay

394
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: just told us Pault. We just interviewed this DEFHIL economist

395
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: Lindsay Giggs, and she said, well, one of the reasons

396
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: you get these huge initial jobless claims numbers is that

397
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: people get paid so much to be jobless. Right now,

398
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: I don't want to sound like a jerk when I

399
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 1: say that, because you know, there are a lot of

400
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 1: people that I'm sure would rather have a job than

401
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 1: than not, and I mean I mean millions of people.

402
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 1: But the point is, um, you know, paychecks that maybe

403
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 1: maybe we're maybe we're already getting into that kind of

404
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: dystopian future. I don't even know if it's dystopian. But um,

405
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: where do you think this all started? Well, I mean,

406
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: the one thing that's going on is that this is

407
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: going to result in inflation. And what's happening is is

408
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: that private businesses have to bid against the government for workers.

409
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: So even though we haven't passed a fifteen dollar minimum ways,

410
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: what we have is could be facto seventeen dollar mimum

411
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 1: wage because businesses have to bid against the government for workers.

412
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 1: And you know, back when I was on Wall Street

413
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 1: fifteen twenty years ago and commodity prices were going up

414
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 1: and people were wondering if we would have inflation, and

415
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: the economists at the time we're saying, you need wage

416
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: inflation to have inflation, and this is the beginning of

417
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 1: wage inflation, you know. And if you go back to

418
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: the nineties seventies, we had this term called the wage

419
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 1: price spiral, where people's wages are going up and they

420
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: spend more on stuff and you get this inflationary spiral.

421
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: Like this is how this begins. So Jared, we have

422
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 1: more fiscal sinness coming down the pike here. How do

423
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: you view that? Only a couple of trillion? Though a

424
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 1: trillion I view it, I do very negatively. I mean,

425
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff that we're doing on the

426
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: fiscal side and also on the monetary side, was intended

427
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: to be an emergency measure. You know, all the SAIDs

428
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 1: liquidity programs, the corporate bomb liquity, the programs, municipal bonds,

429
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 1: stuff like that that was supposed to happen during the pandemic,

430
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: and then it was supposed to go away. But it

431
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: has it gone away. And you know, we've done three

432
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: studio checks right now, and we can't seem to be

433
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: able to stop even though you know, the pandemic isn't

434
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: really over, but it's kind of mostly over. So I

435
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: think it's time to stop pulling back these emergency measures

436
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: and let the economy get back to normal. One of

437
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: the cool things that we have seen, and I don't

438
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: know if this would be an example of The kind

439
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: of excess you're talking about is people are now gonna

440
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: have now been paying like serious amounts of money for newsletters,

441
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: and you know, this is something that hasn't happened since

442
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: I think, you know, back in the eighteen hundreds. Um,

443
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: it's a great way for journalists to make money. And

444
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: I was just thinking because I've been a long time

445
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: subscribe to the Daily Dirt napp. You can make a

446
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: lot of money that way. Um, you know, it's pretty

447
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 1: popular and people are starting to pay like, you know,

448
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 1: like uh, like five bucks, ten bucks, twenty bucks a

449
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: month for these newsletters anyway, Jared Dillion, great to get

450
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 1: your take. Um, fantastic column. You can check out that

451
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: piece and all of the opinion pieces by typing O

452
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: P I N go on your Bloomberg terminal or Bloomberg

453
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: dot com slash opinion. This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening

454
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen

455
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: to interviews of Apple podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer.

456
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three.

457
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: Put on false Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at pt sweeney.

458
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch US worldwide at

459
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio,