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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house top works dot com. Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. This is Molly and I'm Kristen. Christmas is

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Speaker 1: our third in a series that kind of started accidentally. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: First we talked about nurses, nurses, We talked about midwives

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Speaker 1: and doler midwives and news, and now we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about female doctor female doctors. But we're not talking about

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Speaker 1: female doctors as in guinea colleges, although we will mention

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Speaker 1: guy to college. You know, I was actually going to

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Speaker 1: ask you a question to kick things off about a

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Speaker 1: guy in college. Okay, as a lady yourself, Kristen deb

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Speaker 1: would be me with lady part I do have a vagina?

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Speaker 1: Would you go see a male gynecologist? You know? If I, um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah I would. I would. Would you think twice about it?

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you had your choice, who would you take?

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Speaker 1: I would take it. I would take a female doctor,

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Speaker 1: but I would be I'm more open to going to

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Speaker 1: a male kind o now than I was when I was,

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Speaker 1: say eighteen. Yeah, you know, because at first you don't

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe you're a little more us, a little

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Speaker 1: more squeamish about you know, stirrups and plus a male

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Speaker 1: in front of that. Yeah, I mean it's so awkward. Maybe. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it can be traumatic to go to the kind of

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Speaker 1: colleges for the first time. Um, But then it gets easier.

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Speaker 1: Ladies out there, don't be I know plenty of I

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Speaker 1: know plenty of women who go to male kind of

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Speaker 1: collegists and they have no problem. Yeah. And so I

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Speaker 1: thought that would sort of be when we started researching

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Speaker 1: doctors who are women. I thought that'd be kind of

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Speaker 1: the main field where you'd see a lot of women

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Speaker 1: that you know, people who you know, specifically women When

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Speaker 1: I talk about people women who had lady parts might

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Speaker 1: want to see someone who also had a lady part,

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Speaker 1: women who had lady parts. Yeah, uh yeah, it's early. Um.

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Speaker 1: But then there's this really interesting study, uh that was

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Speaker 1: that found that yes, a lot of women would have

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Speaker 1: the preference for a female kind of cologists, the majority would.

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Speaker 1: But then even the women who had a lot of

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Speaker 1: people's said they had no preference. But then even the

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Speaker 1: woman who said they had a preference for a female

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Speaker 1: guydacologist went and saw a male GYDA cocologist and experienced

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Speaker 1: the same level of satisfaction with their appointment, right, because

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Speaker 1: they were most concerned. All the people in in this

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Speaker 1: study were most concerned with experience and capability before gender. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you know, that's sort of I think one of

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Speaker 1: the main things people can think of where they might

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Speaker 1: want a doctor in particular gender, and this study sort

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Speaker 1: of showed that. Yeah, it's on people's mind, but not

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Speaker 1: really because you and I and we will not go

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Speaker 1: into detail here, but I know for a fact that

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Speaker 1: you and I have both gone to female lady doctors

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Speaker 1: and had just bananas kind of experiences. So it's certainly

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Speaker 1: not it's not the gender of the doctor. Now you

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Speaker 1: can have a lady GUYDA cologist who will who will

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Speaker 1: freak you out. But like I said, no, no details, um,

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Speaker 1: but I do want to revisit one one little topic

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Speaker 1: before we move forward with this that we touched on

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Speaker 1: in the nursing podcasts. Because in the nursing podcast in

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Speaker 1: case you all don't recall, it was focused on while

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Speaker 1: nurse why nursing is typically a female profession as supposed

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Speaker 1: to a male profession, and it goes back to this

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Speaker 1: Victorian idea that was really promoted by Florence Nightingale of

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Speaker 1: the medical family as a family, the doctor is the father,

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Speaker 1: the wife is the nurse, and then the child is

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Speaker 1: the patient. So you have, you know, this male paternal

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Speaker 1: doctor figure. So now we've kind of worked our way

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Speaker 1: up up the wrongs. We're going to talk about the

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Speaker 1: differences between male and female doctors because there are now

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Speaker 1: just as many men as women coming out of medical school, right,

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Speaker 1: but what is the difference between them? Pretty much as

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Speaker 1: soon as these women started graduate from medical school and

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Speaker 1: entering practices, researchers were like, what's the delia, what's gonna

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Speaker 1: There's got to be a difference. So it's it's actually

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Speaker 1: been pretty widely studied, and uh, it comes down to

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Speaker 1: these things we always talk about as these stereotypically female

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Speaker 1: trait right, that might make women not better doctors, but

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Speaker 1: different doctors, because for instance, you know, female doctors will

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Speaker 1: typically prefer to wear hot pink scrubs um and carry

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Speaker 1: their purses in the operating room with them. They like

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Speaker 1: designer scalpels, whereas men will just go to costco. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that extra attention to detail, that women can bring their

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Speaker 1: shopping skills really help them in the emergency. Yeah it does, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Kristen jokes, of course they aren't. But those sort of

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Speaker 1: stereotypically things. How many times we said that women are

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Speaker 1: better communicators? Too many times? Then I would that I

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Speaker 1: would care to count. I was actually thinking about this

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Speaker 1: as I was reading all this research of just over

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Speaker 1: and over again. If you look at studies on gender differences,

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Speaker 1: women communicate, they're like mothers, even if they're not your mother.

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Speaker 1: Men might not take as much time to speak with you,

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Speaker 1: but they are thinking in their heads, whereas we they

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Speaker 1: were thinking with their vows and hands. That doesn't make sense,

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Speaker 1: It kind of does that. I mean, that's what it

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Speaker 1: comes down to, you, for better for worse, that this

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Speaker 1: idea that these womanly traits can affect your experience at

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Speaker 1: the doctor who are bedside manner. So, yeah, there are

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Speaker 1: tons of studies about women communicating better, women taking a

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Speaker 1: little bit more time with each patient. Um. But you

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Speaker 1: know what's kind of funny is once you start to

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Speaker 1: look at some specific diagnoses that doctors can make, that's

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Speaker 1: when it starts to break down a little bit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's start with something a little more intuitive with plastic surgery.

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Speaker 1: Around of plastic surgery patients in the US for cosmetic

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Speaker 1: plastic surgery, especially women, and what are we gonna get done?

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Speaker 1: Probably our boobs, So they might need to get bigger,

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Speaker 1: they might need to get smaller. You might have had

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Speaker 1: breast cancer and need to reconstruct them. Right, So those

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Speaker 1: are some options, And women will say that female plastic

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Speaker 1: surgeons might not be so quick to make a judgment

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Speaker 1: of like, okay, all right, you want to go bigger,

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Speaker 1: let's go big. I need to go small. Let's be

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Speaker 1: a wad as small, whereas women might just want something

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Speaker 1: a little more just in the middle. And female plastic

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Speaker 1: surgeons who have possessed breasts of their own and have

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Speaker 1: grown up with the experience of of having breasts might

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Speaker 1: take a little more time and figure out what that

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Speaker 1: patient really needs and tailor at a little a little

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Speaker 1: better than a male doctor, not saying that the the

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Speaker 1: outcome will be any worse like that. There men and

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Speaker 1: women aren't aren't as good technically, But yeah, they're saying

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Speaker 1: that the woman will actually listen to what you want.

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Speaker 1: But again, I think this will come down to individual doctors.

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Speaker 1: They're really great. Male plastic surgeons on betting, just as

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Speaker 1: there might be really crappy female plastic surgeons. It's it

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Speaker 1: can be very subjective once you get right down to it.

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Speaker 1: But let's let's turn in to another medical conundrum, Christian

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Speaker 1: heart disease. Heart disease. Coronary heart disease is typically referred

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Speaker 1: to as an illness of older men. Yes, and that

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Speaker 1: would be wrong. But that would be wrong. Why would

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Speaker 1: it be wrong because when they get it too, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like weird, doctor's right, the doctor is in So yeah,

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Speaker 1: typically um considered an illness older men, but it is

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Speaker 1: a little bit harder to diagnose in women, which is

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Speaker 1: why it's typically associated with older men, just because it's

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Speaker 1: easier to spot in them. But when it comes to

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Speaker 1: spotting coronary heart disease, the gender of the doctor seems

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Speaker 1: to make a little bit of a difference, at least

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Speaker 1: according to this one study that was reported on in

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Speaker 1: the New York Times in two thousand and seven. But

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Speaker 1: not in the way you think. You think that maybe

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Speaker 1: a female doctor, knowing that this is a little harder spot,

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Speaker 1: would be more attuned to those little hints that could

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Speaker 1: indicate the heart disease. But no, they found out that

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Speaker 1: actually the female doctors when diagnosing the female patients male patients,

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Speaker 1: everyone could spot the signs, but female doctors were likely

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Speaker 1: to overlook the biggest risk factor for heart disease, which

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Speaker 1: was age. All the male doctors when they looked at

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Speaker 1: the female patient considered the age, whereas the female doctors

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Speaker 1: sort of forgot about age and looked at all these

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Speaker 1: other clues and thus we're um not as good at

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Speaker 1: diagnosing the heart disease. So it's an example. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can find one that proves that women can be better,

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Speaker 1: the plastic surgery example. You can find another study that

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Speaker 1: says the men have got it going on the heart

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Speaker 1: disease things. So again, it's not like anyone's better. It's

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Speaker 1: not like anyone's better. And we should make a point

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Speaker 1: that it's not like all the study methodologies looking at

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Speaker 1: these gender differences between doctors are locked tight either. Because

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Speaker 1: there were some complaints about this study on coronary heart

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Speaker 1: disease that at the doctors involved, there were a hundred

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Speaker 1: and twelve male and female primary care doctors who were

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Speaker 1: just watching videotapes of professional actors portraying patients with symptoms

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Speaker 1: of heart disease. So the dot perfect right, And so

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Speaker 1: some doctors were saying, who were commenting on the study,

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Speaker 1: were saying, hey, you know what this would change if

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Speaker 1: they were actually, if that was a real patient in

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Speaker 1: a real waiting room. I think that the results would

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Speaker 1: be different. You need to replicate these kind of findings.

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Speaker 1: And you know, even the studies that are based on

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Speaker 1: a patient's preference, because a lot of people say it's

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Speaker 1: not so much the doctor's gender, but the patient's preference

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Speaker 1: for a certain gender. That's all based on you know,

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Speaker 1: a survey and what the patients saying. And even if

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Speaker 1: the study is anonymous and randomized, maybe some patients don't

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Speaker 1: want to say, you know, straight out that they prefer

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Speaker 1: one gender or the other. There's really no way to

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Speaker 1: know how all these studies are going UM in terms

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Speaker 1: of these methodologies. But one thing we can say is

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Speaker 1: that whether they're different, whether they're better, whether or they

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Speaker 1: are worse, women certainly are changing the faith of modern medicine.

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Speaker 1: They are, and they're making it a much prettier one.

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Speaker 1: Their features and Joel lines and those no, I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about their working hours, Kristen, Yes, this is true, UM,

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Speaker 1: Women physicians typically don't want to have that constant on

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Speaker 1: call schedule. They will want to pick a little more

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Speaker 1: family friendly schedules. Um For instance, there was a gynecologist,

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Speaker 1: Natalie Feldman, who was saying that women physicians have helped

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Speaker 1: make it more acceptable for both genders to try to

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Speaker 1: strike a balance between work and family life. And she said, quote,

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Speaker 1: the new generation is much less driven to work long hours.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna want to go into emergency medicine or anesthesia

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Speaker 1: where you have to work, but they're not on call

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Speaker 1: right there trying to have that work life balance. And

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Speaker 1: while that sounds like a good thing, something that we

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Speaker 1: all strive for in our own careers, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a dirty word in medicine where the badge of honors

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Speaker 1: working those seventy two hour shifts and being at the

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Speaker 1: hospital or your practice constantly. And some people are saying that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the men are being influenced by these women

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Speaker 1: saying we don't want to work seventy two hours in

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Speaker 1: a where we want to have lives. And as a

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Speaker 1: result of this young generation of doctors working less, or

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Speaker 1: working part time, or stopping to have children and then

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Speaker 1: coming back, people are saying that this is going to

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Speaker 1: be the cause of a major physicians shortfall in just

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Speaker 1: like ten years, right because with the aging boomer population,

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Speaker 1: health the need, the healthcare need is exploding, and so

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Speaker 1: some people are worried that, hey, if these doctors don't

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Speaker 1: want to work constantly, what are we gonna do? But

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Speaker 1: you know, on the other on the other side of it,

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Speaker 1: people are saying, if these doctors slowed down, they might

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Speaker 1: be able to practice longer. There's gonna be fewer rates

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Speaker 1: of burnout. Um, you know, it's it's good to have

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Speaker 1: a happy doctor. When you talked about traumatic experiences, and

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Speaker 1: I think that was based on a not so happy doctor.

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Speaker 1: Maybe those lady doctors we had poor experiences with were

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Speaker 1: just kind of sour because they realized that they were

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Speaker 1: getting paid seventeen thousand dollars less than their male compatriots.

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Speaker 1: Are you telling you there's a gender pay gap, Priston Congress,

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you there's a gender pay gain, surprise, and

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Speaker 1: it is a wide one. And you guys probably heard

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Speaker 1: this news because this came out in February of this

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Speaker 1: year and it was widely reported because it is it

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Speaker 1: is a huge, huge pay gap, and it's one that

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Speaker 1: has only increased in recent years. And this was a

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Speaker 1: study published in Health Affairs journal Health Affairs, and just

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Speaker 1: just take a little take a little listen to this.

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Speaker 1: In new women doctors earned a hundred and fifty one

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars on average. Not too bad, I mean this

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Speaker 1: a little bit less than podcasters make. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I go to school for seven owner and as compared

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Speaker 1: to a hundred and seventy three thousand for men, so

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Speaker 1: you got in twelve point five percent salary difference. But

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Speaker 1: in two thousand eight, somehow that salary differences is widen

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Speaker 1: to nearly seventeen percent. That's that's crazy, and you know

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Speaker 1: they try and pack it and it may be some

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Speaker 1: reasons that you know, generally women make less. They may

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Speaker 1: not be as good to negotiating their salary, or they

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Speaker 1: may take on more family friendly benefits. To go back

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Speaker 1: to this idea that women doctors never want to go

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Speaker 1: to work, that does want to have kids, because because

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Speaker 1: that's how some articles can paint this, uh women doctor

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Speaker 1: schedule in that they you know, just want to take

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Speaker 1: a lot of flex time and don't work as much.

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Speaker 1: But even when they account for things like vacation and

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Speaker 1: different hours and differently specialties, it's still they're still a

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Speaker 1: huge pay gap. And if you have been in school

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Speaker 1: and training that long and to face such a huge

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Speaker 1: pay gap, yeah, I can understand why you might be

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Speaker 1: a little surly in your workplace. Yeah, even with heart surgeons, Like,

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Speaker 1: looking just at that specialty, female heart surgeons were earning

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Speaker 1: twenty seven thousand less on average, and female specializing in

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Speaker 1: pulmonary disease or earning average of forty four thousand less

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Speaker 1: than men. So something's going on there. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know whether it's bad math on the statisticians end or

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Speaker 1: some huge just gender inconsistencies in the medical field. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's pretty crazy. And um, you know, at

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Speaker 1: this point, we'd love to hear from doctors med students

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Speaker 1: out there what you're hearing in your own workplace about

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Speaker 1: this pay gap, if you've noticed it, if you don't

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Speaker 1: notice it. Um, all the questions we've discussed, you know,

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Speaker 1: things like the feminization of medicine leading to short of

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Speaker 1: working hours, is that true? Yeah? And also women out there,

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Speaker 1: we'd like to know if you have to go to

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Speaker 1: the guy, no, do you care whether it's a man

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Speaker 1: or a woman. Just curious? Yeah, quick. Paul email us

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Speaker 1: at mom how stuff works dot com. Hit us up

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Speaker 1: on Facebook and Twitter as well. In the meantime, we

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Speaker 1: got a couple of emails to toss your way. All right,

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Speaker 1: I have an email here that it's not signed, but

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Speaker 1: I thought was really interesting the list. Right. My dad

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Speaker 1: mostly wears button down shirts, and when the local cleaner

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Speaker 1: started offering dollar per shirt deals on men's shirts, he

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Speaker 1: decided was worth bringing them all the cleaners. A couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago, I was home and somehow my Royal

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Speaker 1: blue button down collar and cut shirt got stuck in

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Speaker 1: the laundry and ended up in my dad's cleaners back.

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Speaker 1: My parents got it back. I told my dad to

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Speaker 1: tell me how much it costs him so I could

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Speaker 1: pay him back. Guess what, Since it was with the

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Speaker 1: bag of men's shirts, it went through as a men

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Speaker 1: shirt and was charged as a men's shirt for one dollar.

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Speaker 1: A short time later, I bought in the same shirt

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Speaker 1: to the same cleaners and ask them how much it

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Speaker 1: would cost four dollars. Four dollars talk about a gap?

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Speaker 1: All right? Well, I've got an email here from Daphne

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Speaker 1: and this is in response to our podcasts on Kegel exercises. Kegel, keegel,

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Speaker 1: we say kegel. Dathney writes, this might sound weird, but

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Speaker 1: kegels are the best thing that ever happened to me.

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Speaker 1: I like where this is gill and I have a

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Speaker 1: condition called interstitial systitis known as I SEE, and it's

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Speaker 1: basically an inflammation of the bladder lining. Not much is

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Speaker 1: really known about it, but my situation is actually fairly

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Speaker 1: mild and the only problem I had was intense urge

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Speaker 1: use the bathroom all the time. And y'all that's all

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Speaker 1: the time in all caps. I had two money procedures

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Speaker 1: done and have given up eating a lot of trigger

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Speaker 1: foods to calm my bladder. Eventually, the liny of my

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Speaker 1: bladder actually healed, but I was still experiencing this intense,

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Speaker 1: in tense urge to use the bathroom all the time.

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Speaker 1: So finally the physical therapist prescribes kegles and it worked.

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Speaker 1: Prior to the kegles, I couldn't travel far or spend

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Speaker 1: much time in a place without a bathroom. It made

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Speaker 1: me not even want to leave the house. Kegles are

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Speaker 1: awesome and have given me my life back. Put that

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Speaker 1: on a sure wow. Sometimes I do still feel the

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Speaker 1: urge to pee frequently, and I just start doing my

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Speaker 1: kegles again, and usually the feeling goes away within a

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Speaker 1: day or two. So I wonder if this would work

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Speaker 1: if you just this is just me riffing now that

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Speaker 1: Daphne's done. I just wonder if I, if you have

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Speaker 1: to use the bathroom, really bath if you can kegle

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Speaker 1: little keggle that urge away. Probably not forever, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it cannot be controled. Golds urge to get home.

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Speaker 1: So if you break the seal, maybe kegle could. Kegles

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Speaker 1: could Maybe this is our opportunity to actually do an

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Speaker 1: academic study curse to go to the bars and then

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Speaker 1: we try some kegle. Okay, so oh man, that'd be

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Speaker 1: like the perfect podcast. Now, okay, anyway, let's let's let's

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Speaker 1: wrap this up. So if you have any questions, comments

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Speaker 1: thoughts to send our way. Mom Stuff at house stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com is the email address. You can also

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Speaker 1: hit us up on Facebook, like us, send us a

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Speaker 1: comment all that good stuff. You can follow us over

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. And then lastly, you

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Speaker 1: can always read our blog It's stuff Mom Never told

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Speaker 1: You at how stuff works dot com for moral thiss

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Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. If is it how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com. To learn more about the podcast, clock

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Speaker 1: on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of

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Speaker 1: a ride. Download it today on iTunes. Brought to you

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Speaker 1: by the reinvented two thousand and twelve cameray. It's ready,

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