WEBVTT - Leadership and Hiring Trends 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.320 Welcome to Chopping It Up Episode two. I'm your host, 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:07.320 Mike Hallen, Senior Restaurant and food Service Analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence. 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:10.880 It's my pleasure to introduced our guests Alice Elliott. In 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:13.760 addition to being my friend, mentor, and consolieri, she is 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:16.320 the founder and CEO of the Elliott Group, which is 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:22.079 a premier executive search firm for the restaurant, hospitality, retail, lifestyle, service, 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.960 and technology industries. Alice is an expert on human capital 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.000 and leadership and I'm excited to tackle these subjects and 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.440 others with her today. Thanks for joining us, Alice. Why 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.440 is it being great to see? Great to see you 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.600 as always? So, uh, let's just jump right in. I 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.519 recently read that CEO turnover is a fifty two year 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:45.760 over year, so in our coverage area and out of 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:51.240 the companies that we could cover, Domino's, Darden, Denny's, Breaker, Wingstop, 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:56.160 and Starbucks CEOs all have resigned or retired recently. Our 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:00.320 executives just burnt out after two very difficult years in 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.000 the restaurant industry, or there's something else motivated motivating them 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:08.600 to Milan. So it's a great question, and here's what 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.240 I would tell you what we're seeing and obviously you 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.360 know what we know. So first of all, anytime there's change, 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:16.959 there's always questions and there's a lot of with that 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:22.000 opportunities and UM wonderment is to really is there something 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.040 going on behind the scenes. And I would tell you 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:28.759 that relative to CEO turnover specifically, I think you really 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.720 have to look uniquely at each case. There's going to 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.120 naturally be retirements and that has nothing to do with 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.960 what happened in and beyond. There is you know, just 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.759 the chronological aspect of people feeling that it is time 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:45.920 they've done their great work. I would also tell you that, um, 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.200 and this was pre certainly we've seen this also over 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.480 the last a few years, there was also from a 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.800 board perspective, new opportunities to kind of look at what 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:58.960 might be you know, different talent. It doesn't mean better 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.440 or worse, it may just being different skill sets that 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.360 maybe weren't as an evidence or needed, you know, just 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.160 four or five years ago. So I think we're seeing 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:09.359 a whole lot of things. We're seeing some CEOs that 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.480 are outen to go to different verticals because remember now 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:14.720 it is really just the orbit. It is no longer 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.320 being a specific you know, in one discipline per sage, 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:22.120 really being the overarching business person whose skill set can 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.280 be relatable. And we see that very much in the 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.960 consumer space interacting with consumers and all the unit and 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.520 all those things, and obviously franchises very big now we 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:35.800 see it where absolutely your point. There are some instances 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.320 where people feel, look, I have given my best work 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.280 and it is time. And I think if there's something 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.400 that the last number of years showing all of us, 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.040 it is that there are other elements of life that 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:51.880 perhaps we had not we unintentionally overlooked that came on 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.320 the forefront. So there are people that is said, I 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.440 don't have to do this. I choose to do this. 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:57.880 But with that I wanted a little bit of a 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.400 different landscape. And that's fine. Many just really want to 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:06.320 sit on boards, and there are definitely instances where you know, 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.400 boards and it's a mutual decision in many cases as well, 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:16.640 where someone just says it's time. Yeah, it's great, um, 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:20.160 and it actually gives me a lot of additional directions 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.120 that we can go on and as an interview, so 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.560 i'd imagine what the economy is slowing, you know, people 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:32.040 may may consider getting back to work. Now, So how 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:37.080 is the hiring landscape today? From where you say? Um, yes, 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.520 so I can tell you what we see. Our practice 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:43.840 is really more c suite just being retained firm that 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.840 we are. But we obviously have you know, a broad 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.040 breaths heere of influence and see a lot. It has 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:55.080 quieted down the difficulty of attracting people to come back 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.200 to work. The bigger, the bigger opportunity, right, so the 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.240 lists hopefully always want to fill it up. Is that 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.800 what are some of these organizations doing to attract the 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:08.320 best talent they can in a very very very competitive space. 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.200 So what we're hearing, what we're seeing because obviously we're 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:13.920 in touch with CEOs and you know see level exefecutives 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:17.080 at every moment in a variety of verticals. Um, is 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:21.880 that there It is still difficult to attract tremendous talent, 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:25.920 but the responsibility and the opportunity of companies to do 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.440 a few extra things to court the talent has really 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.600 become front center. So there really is all intents and 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.719 purposes from what you know, we say what I think, 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.599 it's definitely a talent war, but there is more of 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:39.880 a landscape in which to choose from. You just have 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.360 to be it's competitive, but you have to come in 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.120 with some of those extra things. So I can give 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.320 you just a couple of examples. You know, whether it 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.760 is um you know, contests and people are winning prizes, 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.599 whether it is paying more money and wage, whether it 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:57.200 is you know, more class as English as a second language. 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.159 I mean, all these things count. Is and it is 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:04.120 as much the communication and the feeling of culture and 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:08.599 being part of an overarching brand beyond the job. Because 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:10.320 the other side of it is when we look at 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.680 the person who's looking to take an opportunity, they want 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.600 to feel that they have a chance, that they are respected, 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.640 and I think that's a really important you know, I 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.120 want to say it again, that they are respected. Everybody 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.479 wants to have a voice and feel that they have 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:30.279 an opportunity to do something, perhaps whether it's through learning 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:32.840 or be with the right management team that shows some 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:37.600 other things. Maybe it's flexibility of work hours, Maybe it's 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.719 the opportunity to pre plan a schedule and to have 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:43.359 more of a life instead of just being hold and 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.320 told you have to come in. All these things count 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:50.520 when someone makes the choice as to where they're doing them. Yeah, 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:54.279 that's that's uh, it's great, and it's something that a 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.360 lot of our companies have been speaking to for some time, 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.720 but especially for the last couple of years. And it's critical, right, 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:06.400 we know restaurant performances tied closely to g M turnover. Right, 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.839 our friends a Black Books Intelligence have done some nice 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:15.240 work on that topic. So very important for these restaurants 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.560 to be able to hit their full potential. And I 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.320 would also add to that, but today a general manager, 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:22.680 you know, there was a time you were a general 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.240 manager and you executed and you did what you had 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.440 to do. Today, with technology, you have to be a manager. 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.480 You have to be a friend, you have to be 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.200 you know, a financial wizard. I mean, you have to 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.839 be a business person. And so the skill set is 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:40.080 really different. And the companies that embrace that and also 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.240 give training are the ones that don't have the turnover 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.359 long term because it allows the general managers to feel 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:48.280 even if they want to stay as a general manager, 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:49.880 which is, by the way, is a wonderful thing to 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:52.080 do too. No one said that everyone has to be 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.599 a senio or optical in the corporate setting. Um, but 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.000 these are skills that people will have for the rest 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:02.440 of their life. Yeah, for sure. And uh, you know, 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.599 from where I said, I've personally really enjoyed watching some 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:10.040 of these chains that have an entrepreneurial type of of 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.800 uh set up for their gms. Right that old outback 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:17.240 steakhouse model that's been adopted now by Texas Roadhouse and 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.320 it's been I think such a critical piece to their success. 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:25.160 And Torches Tacos has been implementing that you know, ownership 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:28.600 piece where expert cent of profits. Um, you know there's 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.440 basically a profit sharing incentive for the gms. You know, 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.160 that model seems to work really well. As you know, 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.640 it seems to attract the right types of gms, people 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:43.400 that are willing to work hard, and um, you know, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.520 any any comments about that type of structure and why 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:50.120 maybe we don't see that in more restaurant chains. So, 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.160 I know, I acho in your comments. I think, you know, 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.040 theoretically it's a great model and practically it works in 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:57.240 the right sitting. Not all companies could do with it. 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.560 And when you mentioned entrepreneurial, look there also a lot 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.080 of company is that you know, and not yet at 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.360 that point of having the capability and the financial wherewithal 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:08.520 to do that, which only makes them have to be 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.880 that much more creative to structure something to allow their 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.320 general managers to feel that they have a chance about 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.600 and beyond the actual job and financially feel that they 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:23.640 have opportunities. But there's no question that the companies that 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.600 embrace their general managers and allow them to feel that 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.240 they are truly part of the organization and give them 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:34.439 that financial opportunity, their tenure, you know, and their turnover 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:38.000 certainly is much lower. But the model actually is not 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.360 for everyone. There are some people that they just want 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:44.000 to do a great job and they don't want the responsibility. 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.040 And we see that too right from far. We definitely 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:51.320 see that too. That's what makes up the mosaic of life. Yeah, 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.080 for sure, there's definitely a lot of people that prefer 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:57.400 more corporate gig versus you know, um scratching and clawing 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:02.719 through the entrepreneurial right. Um, so let's shift here's a 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:06.120 little bit. How are people How do people feel about 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:10.320 going back to the office hybrid work? You know, for 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.800 the executives that used speak to um, where do they 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:18.320 fall on the topic. So we're seeing it's all over 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.680 the map. And personally to me, it's like fascinating to 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:25.640 observe and to experience, you know, amongst many or clients 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:30.720 and those that aren't even clients. So in the consumer industry, 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.680 it is very hard to be successful and not be 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:39.880 present because you're interacting with people all day long. There 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.880 is a school of thought, um, and we've seen this, 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.280 you really need to come back and at least hybrid 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:50.760 at least three days a week to validate you camaraderie 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:54.360 and to validate you know, continuation of plans and consistency 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.800 and really driving goals. There are also a number of 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:02.280 companies just by virtual by the size philosophy. They don't 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:04.600 want to lose who they deem to be, you know, 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:08.480 great teams, and they've given them extraordinary flexibility. I think 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.320 we've seen that with technology, which is much more advanced, 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.280 that there is an intimacy and things can get accomplished. 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.960 But I would tell you that what we hear, and 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.920 I'm not putting my own personal judgment on this, is 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.920 that there is a movement specifically in the restaurant space 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.600 to be present and to be respectful. That maybe it's 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.560 not five days, but at the very least, how do 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:34.920 you ask someone to be out in the field, if 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:40.160 the corporations themselves aren't emulating that in their own culture, 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:42.760 it's a really hard balance. And you know, it's a 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.800 very complicated topic. Not that everyone has has the way 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:49.800 withal of having someone necessarily at home. Remember, we went 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.800 through a period of time wherever people were also watching 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:56.000 their children or elderly parents, whatever their unique situation may be, 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.120 and they were working from home, and it hasn't always 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:01.400 been easy to dupl hang now that you know, things 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:07.880 are back to normal, quote unquote, it's a very complicated topic. Um, 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:11.400 but I would tell you that the companies that we're 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:17.080 in touch with are being respectful to show flexibility, but 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:24.040 definitely want presence. Yeah, and imagine more so for the 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.240 hospitality industry than other industries as well, right, because at 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:30.760 the store level it's such a team based culture, right, 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.000 and um, you know, I think it is important for 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.840 that to permeate throughout the organization. So it's just interesting 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.360 the dichonomy between like restaurants versus tech companies, which are 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:43.199 saying some of them are saying they'll never go back 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.120 to the office, right, Yeah, you're not as needed. I mean, look, 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:48.960 first of all, you cannot be in any consumer facing business, 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:53.319 particularly hospitality, when the world play is you have to 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.640 want to work. So it's in the d n A. 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.160 I mean, and even if you come from other industries, 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.000 and you know, we can talk about that. Many people 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.199 came from other industries in the hospitality and then you 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.320 leave hospitality and go to other industries. But if they're 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:09.400 going to be present in hospitality, leadership is so crucial 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.600 and critical. It is a really tough job at every 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:15.479 level level. It's not even it's beyond the general managers, 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.559 make no mistake about it. We have never seen so 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:24.440 much stress, deservingly um then the last few years of executives, 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.280 awesome executives in the corporate level, it's hard. How do 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:30.600 you serve so many masters and also take care of 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.960 yourself recognizing that at every moment the world is sounpredictable 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:38.280 and there's a health component, so you know, the the 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:42.720 communication and the touch and the building culture. Of the 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.559 other thing is when you talk about turnover, if you're 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.079 not present, it's harder to have to build loyalty. I mean, 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.440 it's common sense. How do you really build loyalty if 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.960 people aren't together. So the opportunity and I'll put on 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.760 my executive search had now the opportunity and the willingness 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.959 to entertain other things and to really think as much 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.360 what you want to do beyond the mission of where 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.040 you choose to be. It's all greater if you don't 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:13.880 have some kind of in person mutings. Yeah, and that 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.160 loyalty is so important, and it works both ways, right, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.400 It's loyalty to the organization as well as loyalty to 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:22.160 the employee. Right, might be a lot easier to hire 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.800 somebody if you've never actually met them face might hire 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.800 a fire fine, might be easier to fire somebody if 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.920 you've never actually met them face to face. Right, So yeah, 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:33.440 but the only thing I would say to that might 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:35.320 two as well. You're absolutely right, But you know, and 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.839 this is one thing technology has allowed. The technology is 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:43.080 allowed a lot of amazing things. But you know there 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.400 was a time, right, you call somebody, you send them 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:49.440 a letter. You know, today communication all you need is 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.040 one person to send out on their iPhone that they 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.920 had a bad experience. I mean, you see this all 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.000 the time in the newspaper. Someone gets on the zoom 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.000 and randomly fires you know, x amount of people will 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:01.439 do you think people are gonna want to go work 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:05.440 with our organization? People have so many choices today, and 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:09.800 it is certainly financial, but it is also way beyond financial. 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.120 It is believing in the organization. What are their principles? 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:15.120 You know, you're a lot about diversity for all the 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.760 right reasons e s g. You know, of course pollination. 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.120 Do I have a checkchance to learn new skills? Which 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.120 the company's commitment to me? You have to be present 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:28.240 sometimes to really be able to execute that plan, for sure. 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.120 So let's get a little bit more into what you do. 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:37.960 Um as you know the executive search firm, you know, 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.960 in our business not even a close second. Obviously, you 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.360 do a great job of identifying great talent. Can you 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.480 talk a little bit a little bit about what you're 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.440 looking for in a great leader? So I love the question. 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:57.320 Um you know, there's part science and it's part art. 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:04.480 And I would also just want to say that being 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.560 a leader again doesn't mean that you have to be 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.320 the sole leader in an organization. We all leave different 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.280 aspects of our life and that's the beauty of what 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:14.920 we all choose to do. So, you know, certainly we 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.480 look very much technically the way that we do that 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.000 in our firm, and part of that is just the 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.000 I want to give my colleagues tremendous credit furness. It 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.280 is the longevity of tenure in at the Eliot group 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.920 that allows us to not have drama. Internally. We are 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.000 really very focused externally to those people that in a 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:36.120 nondiscriminatory and fashion that we choose to represent our clients. 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.400 But we we in a nondiscriminatory fashion from a data 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:44.120 and analytics dance, public companies, project companies. We have an 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.239 ability and as part of the magic source here at Eliot, 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:51.320 to really demonstrate and follow someone's track record of success 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.760 and really understand who are they, what have they accomplished, 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.280 what have they done? How are they instrumental? How are 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.840 they spot out by people appears by people that report 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.640 to them and that people that they report too. And 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.400 you know, we do that year after year after year, 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:12.120 always aggregating and meeting new people. Um so there's a 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:16.400 technical component and in our orbit we meet people. So 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.120 you know, as you know, we know thousands of people 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:20.960 and we take a lot of pride in that. And 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.520 it doesn't mean that you know the first the conversation 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.360 can't be on the telephone or something. But it is 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:30.080 very very rare that we haven't actually broke bread and 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.240 met someone in lucked eyes to really understand the essence 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.680 of the person. The other thing I will tell you 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.640 where it comes to leadership is that there and it's 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.240 an over you know, it's an overused words sometimes, but 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:45.280 we look for someone number one who has deep humility. 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:49.480 There's a very fine line between being confident and cocky, 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.240 so we are very prone to go to someone who 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:56.240 is confident but not cocky, that they have a sense 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.440 of humility, they have story. Ideally they will have made 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.840 a mistake that they can talk about what have they 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.679 learned from, what have they done in the course of 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.200 their career that has caused them to maybe of course 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.960 correct learn from it, take a different direction, that they 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:13.960 in their own right would be a coaching mentor and 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:18.080 have had that experience, and that they also are an 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:24.240 extraordinarily well rounded business person beyond any vertical of experience. 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:26.959 And that's really important. I mean to today we know 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.840 globally right so internationally you know technolologically, and we know 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:35.760 from the supply chain stands purchasing all data, analytics or operations, 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:41.000 everything marketing, digital, and go on and on financial all 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:45.560 the elements that go into someone being a leader, that 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:50.080 they are well rounded, do we feel that they can 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.920 make an indelible impact and recognize it's the greater good 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.800 of the organization. Also being in if it's a public 0:17:57.840 --> 0:17:59.760 company or a private company and they're reporting to a 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.800 board and interacting with the board, that they not only 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.480 be able to seek OUTRGE talent, but they'd be trumendous 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:12.399 transparent communicators to be able to have a trust based relationship, 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:16.280 especially with shareholders, whether it's in a public or private sudden, 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.280 and we work a lot with equity groups as you 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.960 would imagine, UM, and you know, they want to understand 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.360 what's going on. They don't want to run the organizations, 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:30.760 but they want leaders who will communicate and be very honest. Yeah, 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.680 it's so important for all relationships, right, And that's such 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:38.200 an interesting insightful answer, you know. But humility and emotional 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.320 intelligence are are so important I think when you're when 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:49.560 you're leading teams and and um leading an organization. UM So, 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:51.679 I think he touched on this on one of your 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.159 first answers, but you know, I know that for a 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.119 long time there's kind of this thought that people that 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.520 leaders have to come from a particular industry to PC accessible. 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:04.359 What do you think about that in today's market. I 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.320 don't think it's true in today's market, with very few exceptions. 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.520 I mean, we were, you know, if someone is going 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:16.040 to have a scientific specificity, for example in agricultural organic growth, 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.600 they need that background, right, And we've seen that too, 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.879 by the way. I mean they're because obviously we do 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.080 work in the CpG space and like but I would 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.200 say overwortingly, it has changed tremendously. I think in some 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.960 instances depends where the company needs. You know, sometimes an 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:36.520 organization might they need someone that is really a turnaround specialist. 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.479 Sometimes it's a growth oriented leader with an the crisp 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:45.200 eye towards critical thinking and strategy, and they specifically want 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:49.120 the window and the lens of other experiences. I will 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.480 tell you in our practice of the Eliot Group, we 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.879 show the window is very important to us, regardless of 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:58.720 the assignment, with obviously client approval, that we show the 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:04.280 bandwidth of aligned industries, different kinds of people, in addition 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.560 to obviously university being an important foundation part of our firm. 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:11.960 But I don't personally think that someone always has to 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.560 come uniquely from an industry. And when you look at 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.920 the entity of the executive, part of what we do 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.439 is look at the depth and the scope of what 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:25.919 they've accomplished. So maybe it is a restaurant assignment. Perhaps 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.439 the person started out in the restaurant industry, Perhaps they 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:32.240 morphed into retail, maybe they then went into grocery. So 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.199 we look at all of it and our you know, 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.800 not only our track record. Um, but I would tell 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.960 you that the response and success rate of having someone 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:47.200 who is a well rounded business person, you know, I 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:49.840 would say it is more greater than someone that is 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:55.000 strictly one dimensional. Yeah, I guess to that point, right, 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.000 it's easier to learn an industry than it is to 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:00.199 be a leader. I think, right, you can't a ten 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:04.199 leadership can be learned, whereas you know, actually anyone can 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:05.879 learn to be a better leader. But I think the 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:08.399 certain aspects of it that people are kind of born with. 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:11.880 Whereas when you you know, pretty much anyone can learn 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:13.840 in the industry that makes it make take some time. 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:17.320 But well, you have you know you first of all, 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.000 you want to learn the secondly, you know, great leaders 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.879 hire great people and it doesn't mean that, you know, 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:26.400 so if there's an area, none is perfect at anything, 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.040 and that goes back to being self aware as a 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.639 leader and being you know, humble and recognizing, you know, 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.400 here's my core competencies and here are some areas that 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:36.600 you know, we hear a lot. Someone may say, you know, 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:40.440 having a very strong CFO would be very helpful. Understand it. No, 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:42.800 it can speak to it can certainly hold my own, 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.960 but having that partner to help me anticipate financial trends 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:53.080 is important. So I would say that, you know, if 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:59.840 hiring the right team um is always important and for 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.719 those that are not from the industry, bringing in a 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:05.200 new way of thinking. You know, we've seen a lot 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:07.120 of instances, and we've been very involved in a lot 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.080 of instances of someone who's just really coming from a 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.480 different industry or a different perch of thinking. And that's 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.960 really healthy too for organizations, because sometimes it's just not 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.560 healthy for a company to always do the same thing 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:23.040 day in and day out the same way. It's very 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.399 hard to be competitive and wined and ever change in 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:30.680 the landscape. Very true, all right, So are there more 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:34.159 opportunities for women and the first candidates today than you know, 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:40.320 maybe a few years back. I love that question. You know, Yes, 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:47.800 I think that UM company look people, you know, we've 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.359 studied this obviously in our firm has been on the forefront. 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:52.600 You know, we're part of the Diversity Council, we were 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:54.919 co founders twenty five years ago and the Multi Cultural 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.520 Food Service Hospitality Alliance. So it's been important part of 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:01.919