1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Body bats. But Joseph's gotten more, Dave. I've got to 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: say with Coburger, one of the things that has come 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: up relative to this dateline special is that the judge, 4 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: to say the very least ain't happy. Ain't happy at all, 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: you know. And there are reasons that judges do things, 6 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: and they put this gag order in place because of 7 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: the sensitive nature of it, because they know that the 8 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: media is all over it. There is a temptation that 9 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: abounds out there when you have information and money that 10 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: can be injected into a circumstance that would draw some 11 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: Now I'm not saying that anyone is on the take, however, 12 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: I am just saying when those bright lights are shone 13 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: upon you, and I'm talking about from the media, and 14 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: you're in some kind of job where you otherwise wouldn't 15 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: have any attention at all, and you get the really 16 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: important people from New York, They're going to show you 17 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: some attention and show you value. It's I tell you, man, 18 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: it is a fruit of the poisonous tree. It truly is, 19 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: and and it's a dangerous thing. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 20 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: and this is body bags. Do judge wants somebody's hide 21 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: in this case, Dave. 22 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 2: And I don't know if he's going to get it 23 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 2: or not, Joe. But when I from the very beginning 24 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: of this case, they've done things there that were just 25 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: patently wrong. From the very first thing that we heard 26 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: from the county coroner. It wasn't a medical examiner, right, 27 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 2: it was a coroner. 28 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was an elected lawyer. 29 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it was. And we've got we had 30 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: all those shenanigans right at the very beginning. We had 31 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 2: a number of social media people that were making accusations 32 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: and a lot of crazy stuff was going on. But 33 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: you still had four college aged students who were murdered 34 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: in the house, in a party house, and there are 35 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: still questions that a lot of us have about what 36 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: took place and why we don't have certain information. By 37 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: the way, nobody owes me any information they owe the families. 38 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 2: I think I've got a real problem with them tearing 39 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 2: the house down. You know, they've torn down evidence, and 40 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: so the judge can be as mad as he wants 41 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: about things getting out, but they've set it up to 42 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: be like this. I mean, they have destroyed this case 43 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 2: to the point where I'm gonna be honest, Joe, I'm 44 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 2: really bothered by the fact that they tore that house down. 45 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: I really am that, you know at this point. Sometimes 46 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: I think about this and I think about the journey 47 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: that we've been on. Now we're in twenty five, coming 48 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: up on the thirty year anniversary this upcoming November, and 49 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: I've been covering it since immediately the day after I 50 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: started appearing on air. And I got to tell you, right, 51 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: Sometimes I've looked at the scene and it seems as 52 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: though for the prosecution, and I guess the judge by extension, 53 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: because as judge was like introduced into this, he's not 54 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: who they started out with. It's almost like trying to 55 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: tape together Jello. Sometimes you look at it and it's 56 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: just so you really wonder how this thing is going 57 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: to come out. And here's the problem that you hear, 58 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: and it's something I've heard for years and years. You know, 59 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: I might and even when I was a practitioner. If 60 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: you go to a party or something and somebody mentions 61 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: a case to you that they've heard about in the news, 62 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: and they say, well, if it was me that guy, 63 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: would you know, we'd hang him on a sour apple Tree. 64 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: You know that's what I would do, and you hear 65 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: that all the time. Well, that's all find good. You 66 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: can say that. But the problem with being that cock 67 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: sure about something and that reactive and not being purposed 68 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: in what you do just to think that you're gonna 69 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: win because the guy looks creepy, or that you have 70 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: some physical evidence, you have some electronic that that doesn't 71 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: render a verdict. And the course don't care what you 72 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: or I think or the general public. There's a set 73 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: of rules that you have to play by. And wouldn't 74 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: that be the ultimate insult to these families if because 75 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: you know this kind of slipshod way that apparently this 76 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:58,239 Speaker 1: is being played out before us, that this actually risks 77 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: the trial. I heard I was talking to somebody the 78 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: other day and for the life of me, I can't remember. 79 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: It was an attorney and it was in the wake 80 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: of this, And one of the things that came ups is, 81 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's not necessarily going to harm the trial itself. 82 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: The evidence will be presented and if it's persuasive enough 83 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: for a jury, they will find him guilty as charged. Okay, 84 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: But even if he is found guilty, this attorney friend 85 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: of mine. They hold that it's not that you have 86 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: to worry about. You have to worry about the fact 87 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: that he might have a real shot at an appeal, 88 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: like a serious shot, because of everything that happened beforehand, 89 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: you know, because this is a this is a this 90 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: is a freight train. We're standing in the middle of 91 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: the of the tracks right now that's headed towards it's 92 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: not going to swerve. You have to get out of 93 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: the way of it. It's coming one way or another. 94 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: The only thing that could happen is I guess that 95 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: they could say, we want to, you know, move the 96 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: trial date for some reason, but I can't see why 97 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: they would do that. But yeah, this is a this 98 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: is a huge mess that has been created. And look 99 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: ABC Dateline. They can say all they want to, you know, 100 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: freedom of the press, that we have to protect our sources. Well, 101 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: here's the problem. This is not actual reporting. Yeah, this 102 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: is meddling at this point in time. Those are two 103 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: separate things completely. 104 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: Somebody in there gave information they weren't supposed to give. 105 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and when you look, Dave, let me ask you this. 106 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: Just let me ask you. I want to hear your 107 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: reaction when you consider the data that they put out 108 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: on Dateline. If you had to hazard a guess, we 109 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: don't know any more than anybody else, But if you 110 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: had to hazard a guess, given the nature of this information, 111 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: who would be on your likely list of suspects? And 112 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: you don't have to name a specific person, just what 113 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: would if it is from within the law enforcement or 114 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: proscatorial environment, what division within that do you think would 115 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: be the most likely candidate? 116 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 2: You know, when you're looking at what we're talking about here. Yes, 117 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: you have the alleged cell phone activity of Bran Kobert 118 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: that was not public knowledge, that was in the Dayline episode. 119 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 2: You have the searches that included you the podcast Ted 120 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: Bundy and other Porne the cell phone things that we. 121 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: Wait, hang on, you've coupled me with Ted Bundy and 122 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: porn Now, thanks Dave. I appreciate part of the investigation. 123 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 2: But there were gruesome details about the crime scene that 124 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: also became public after the Dayline showed. For instance, Ethan 125 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 2: was Ethan Chapin was we were led to, We were 126 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: told he was, he was already asleep and when he 127 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 2: was killed, he was asleep. But then we find out 128 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: that he's had his leg carved something in his leg, 129 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: And the way they've made it sound is that he 130 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: was alive when that happened, but it didn't wake him up. 131 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 2: That's you know, I don't know how that's possible. 132 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: But I don't either. Yeah. 133 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 2: So, but again, this is information that was not available 134 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 2: outside of a very small group of people. And I'm 135 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: thinking somebody in the Sheriff's department, the police department, somebody 136 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 2: in there and Underlin. Probably it's not going to be 137 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: anybody that's had a career up to this point. It's 138 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 2: going to be somebody that probably has a friend. 139 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: Yeah there, and you know, one of these things with hey, 140 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: let me let me show you this, yeah, you know, yeah, 141 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, and then they just continue 142 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: to feed them. I don't have anything to back that up. Now. 143 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: All of this stuff is you know, look, I know 144 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 1: because there was an other thing that came out. I 145 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: was reflecting on this, and I don't know if we 146 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: have mentioned this, but I think that they had mentioned 147 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: that someone had sat, perhaps the perpetrator had sat in 148 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: the chair in the room with the girls upstairs, and 149 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: that implies that some kind of trace element was left 150 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: behind and may have been on that individual. But a 151 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: lot of the stuff, particularly images, yeah, movement that, Oh 152 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 1: my gosh, that video, that new video that has popped up, 153 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: you know with the vehicle. We've never seen that before. 154 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that was something that was like really held 155 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: close to the vest I don't know. The smacks of 156 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: digital to me, Dave. It really does like somebody that 157 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: would have access to that specific data everything. 158 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: You're right, everything you're talking about, Yeah, you're right, Okay, yeah, 159 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 2: file it's a file on somebody's laptop, somebody's desk that 160 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 2: they shouldn't have had. 161 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and how does it how does it make it 162 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: into the hands of a Dateline producer? You know, I 163 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,719 Speaker 1: don't I don't understand that. And you know, look, you 164 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: see the people on the screen that appear you know 165 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: for Dateline. That's that's not who's driving the ship on 166 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: those things. I hate to you know, I hate to 167 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: burst everybody's bubble. Like if you sit at home, you 168 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: scream at the screen because you see some talking head 169 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: that's giving you information. They're not driving the ship. It's 170 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: the producers that drive the ship. Uh, you know, from 171 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: beginning to end, that's how this works. Trust me, I've 172 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: been involved with media now for a long time. But 173 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: the idea that you would take a case that has 174 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: that's not even near being adjudicated at this point in 175 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: time and you would populate airways with this and and 176 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: it will still be bad, but it's not like it was. 177 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: It was done on the local public public television channel 178 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: at eleven o'clock at night. You're talking about Dateline, and 179 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: everybody in true crime, I mean has watched Dateline at 180 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: one point in time. They all have their favorite person 181 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:22,239 Speaker 1: that's on Dateline. 182 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 2: You know, you know it's interesting you. It's so funny, Joe, 183 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: because something you just said is something that doesn't happen anymore. 184 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 2: It's not something that just popped up for thirty seconds 185 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 2: on a local television station at eleven o'clock at night. 186 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 2: Because now everything's viral. Everything is everything, no matter where 187 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 2: you are, if it's on the line, if it's on somewhere, 188 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 2: everybody has it. My neighbors across the street when this 189 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: story first broke, having a daughter in that age group, 190 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 2: they became an just all about the story and they 191 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: were telling me about things that were going on with it, 192 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 2: and I was like, where are you getting this? They 193 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 2: would tell me I'm like, I don't think that's accurate, 194 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 2: you know, And I would go back and check my 195 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 2: notes to see what we had, and I do know 196 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 2: how you get information from a local source. I've chosen 197 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 2: not to go down that path in my life because 198 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 2: it only hurts people. It doesn't help you along the way. 199 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 2: You don't when you're not you're gonna brown nose your 200 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 2: career like that. It's not a way to live. I 201 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: will tell you I learned I watched when the Natalie 202 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 2: Holloway case broke because it happened. I was on the 203 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 2: air in Birmingham, Alabama at the time when that story broke, 204 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 2: and was very involved in a lot of that early 205 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: coverage in terms of national media coming in and using 206 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 2: local people, local media people. And I didn't tell them Jack, 207 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 2: because they wanted information. They wanted private personal information about people. 208 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: And you're talking about this is somebody's daughter, man, this 209 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 2: is somebody, This is a person. This is not a story. 210 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 2: Same thing is true here. It's why you dealt with 211 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 2: such kick glove at this story when you were covering 212 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 2: it and talking about the students that were involved. So 213 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 2: for somebody, whether it's Dateline, NBC or primetime or whatever 214 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: to go after this story knowing what's at stake, and 215 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 2: to get stuff and put it on the air knowing 216 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: it's wrong. Everybody knows there's a gag order. You're not 217 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 2: supposed to have this information. No, if you truly care 218 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: about the law, you don't do this. 219 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: No, you don't. And listen the investigators that worked this case, 220 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: and it's a multi agency event that took place. You've 221 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: even got the FEDS involved in it. Yeah. I have 222 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: made my comments about the house, it being gone, some 223 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: of the things I saw procedurally with the evidence, you know, 224 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: I think the thing stands out in my mind is 225 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: that mattress being driven down the road in the back 226 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: of a pickup truck. Uncovered. 227 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 2: Go back, go back to that, Joe, explain what you 228 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 2: just said. For those who didn't catch that. 229 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was the image of they had 230 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: a pickup truck that was backed up to the door 231 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: and the police had loaded in a bear mattress into 232 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: the back of that truck. And I had to, you know, 233 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: shake the cob webs out of my head and try 234 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: to take the measure of what I was seeing, because 235 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: it didn't it didn't compute you know, I'm thinking, wait, 236 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: it's snowing up there, debris is blowing about, and you've 237 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: got a mattress that's going and I'm assuming that, since 238 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: so much of this case involves bedrooms, that that mattress 239 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: held a certain level of evidentiary value. And we got 240 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: it in the back of a pickup truck and you're 241 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: hauling away. I mean, I've worked around, I've worked around 242 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: several police agencies that were very poor, but they had vans. 243 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: You know, at least in a van, you've got this 244 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: thing shut up in the back and it's protected, and 245 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: there's there's a way, Yes, there's even a way to 246 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: package a mattress in our world. You know, I even 247 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: looked back to you talk about a big misstep with this. 248 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: You know, I think I don't think Coburger had been 249 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: extradited back to Idaho at this point, but he had 250 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: retained counsel, and I think that the council he had 251 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: retained was in Pennsylvania. And do you remember this brother, 252 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: where they said they they were going to release the 253 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: scene and have it cleaned, and the Coburger's council at 254 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: that time was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 255 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: Remember they had the people were in the Tavik suits 256 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: outside of the house, and they had put the plastic 257 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: up over the door so the guys that do the 258 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: crime scene cleaning could go in and clean, right, and 259 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: his team his team at that time, and I think 260 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: he was if I remember correctly, I think he was 261 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: still in Pennsylvania the time. They said, whoa, hold your horses. 262 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: We've got our own investigators that we want to send 263 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: there that want to appreciate it, all those sorts of things. 264 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: And they still had they still had like the plastic 265 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: they create, like this plastic tunnel on the outside of 266 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: the door that you kind of walk in. You're wearing 267 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: the respirator and all that stuff, and you're going to 268 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: go in and clean. It's just the way they do things. 269 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: And they had to put the kibosh on that and 270 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: step away from it so that their people could go 271 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: and do their own observations and listen. I understand that 272 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: people are frustrated with this, and they'll say, well, they 273 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: you know tough, you know they didn't. No, no, no, 274 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: you have to make it an even playing field. You 275 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: have to look at their sports analogies are rife in 276 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: this thing. You have to have an equal playing field 277 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: in this and you know, the judge is acting as 278 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: a referee in an umpire and they call the shots 279 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,719 Speaker 1: along the way, and it has to remain balanced because 280 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: in the end, and I don't necessarily think that true 281 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: justice in this world actually exists, but if you want 282 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: some semblance of justice and certainly scientific truth from my perspective, 283 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: everybody has to have Everybody has to have a clean 284 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: swing if you will, they have to have their own 285 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: shot at it. Because that's the way our courts are 286 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: set up. I know it's frustrating, but that's the way 287 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: it works. 288 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 2: Does it bother you that Ann Taylor, the public defender 289 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 2: who became Brian Coberger's public defender only after she unloaded 290 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 2: Xander Canodle's biological mother, who she had represented multiple times. 291 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 2: How is that possible that a victim's mother is your 292 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 2: client that you have represented on drug charges and other Yeah, 293 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,959 Speaker 2: and you, because you know what this case means, are 294 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 2: able to finagle the so you can be named public 295 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 2: defender for Brian Coberger. 296 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily yeah, look, hey, it doesn't necessarily make 297 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: me happy, but look, this is kind of hand handed. 298 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: But I got to tell you that's between her and 299 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: the Bar of Idaho and her relationship with God. You know, 300 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: you know, like, how do you feel about it? Well, 301 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: I have no there I have no moral compunction overdoing 302 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: this whatsoever. And yeah, it's smarmy. I mean, there's there's 303 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: a certain level to that that's distasteful. But she's a 304 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: practicing attorney and if if the bar says it's okay 305 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: for her to do it, go ahead and do it. 306 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: Knock yourself out. But you know, and she's going to 307 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: get us. And she has gotten a certain amount of 308 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: recognition for this. Yeah, and I know everybody wants to 309 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: think that. You know that you're crusading for justice, and 310 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: this can apply to both prosecution and defense. You're crusading 311 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: for justice. You're there to help people and all this stuff. 312 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, you know, it's like 313 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: driving down the road and you see, you know, in 314 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: our in our state, it's well I won't say the name. 315 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: I'm not going to give them free advertisement, but you 316 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 1: drive down the road and it says you've been in 317 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: a car accident. Call us. You know that's what we're 318 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: in your corner. You know, that sort of thing it's 319 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: the same thing you're advertising at that point in time. 320 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: That's why in these really big cases there are attorneys 321 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 1: that will take pro bono cases because whatever you would make, 322 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: whatever you would make, say for instance, off of the 323 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: dime of the state is slipping you to do this 324 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: pro bono and there is a base base salary or 325 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 1: moneys that they receive. It's going to be far exceeded 326 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: by what you're going to have with clients. They're going 327 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: to walk through your door. Oh yeah, yeah, you represented them, 328 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: now I want you Okay, So that's the payout in 329 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: the end. Don't don't come to me talking about justice 330 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: and all of that sort of thing. But that's again, 331 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: that's what they do, that's how they roll with it. 332 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: This is I just hope, I hope that what the 333 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: judge is asked for is going to happen because there 334 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: needs to be I think Jave in this particular case, 335 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: there has to be a message sent, like a strong message. 336 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: The judge, from my understanding, looked at the DA and 337 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: said a special prosecutor must be appointed in this case 338 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: to look into this specific matter. It caught the judge's eye, 339 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: and you don't want to be caught by the judge's 340 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: eye at any point in time, I think about what 341 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: was the I don't know if you've ever seen these 342 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: movies The Lord of the Rings, it's that big eye. 343 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: That's something in the air that kind of seeks out, 344 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 1: you know. And you never want to fall in the 345 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: gaze of the judge, certainly for nothing negative. I don't 346 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: want to fall in any judge's gaze anyway. I tried 347 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: to be as obedient as I possibly can. I try 348 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: to play by the rules at all times. Anytime I 349 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: had to go into some judges court, you know, for me, 350 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: you know, when you look at this, you're already going 351 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: to be on the radar. Anyway. The judge has got 352 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: a very difficult job in this case. Now, Now, how 353 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,959 Speaker 1: happy do you think the judge is that this has 354 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: been added on to their plate, because it's an absolute 355 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: train wreck. I don't know really how they're going to 356 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: solve this. I'm going to be very interested to see 357 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: how this plays out, if and when, and I'm hoping 358 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: sooner than later the special prosecutor will be appointed. And 359 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about Moscow, Idaho. Your pool of potential people 360 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: there is tiny. This is not going to take any 361 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: amount of time to wittle this now. As a matter 362 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: of fact, I would imagine that there are fannies that 363 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: are tightening all over the place right now, or specifically 364 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: those individuals that know that they were the ones that 365 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: did it, or maybe a supervisor out there that is thinking, 366 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: this might be my person that did this. Yeah, and 367 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: they're wondering, you know, what's going to happen? Is there 368 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: going to be hell to pay for? Dave? 369 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 2: See if anybody that you know in that area has 370 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 2: hired an attorney or has met with an attorney recently, 371 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 2: and that's your guy, That's all I'm saying. You know, 372 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 2: we talk about attorneys and mint too, talk about An 373 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 2: Taylor and getting publicity. There's Mark garri Goes is one 374 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 2: of these attorneys who has a big profile. You know, 375 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: Scott Peterson's lawyer, he's mine did it? 376 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: Yeah? 377 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 2: And but one thing people don't know about garrigs And 378 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 2: this is why I'm always cautious of saying anything about 379 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 2: what lawyers do, because we don't know everything they do. 380 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 2: Like Ann Taylor. I'm bothered by the fact that Ann 381 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 2: Taylor was Xanderkno's mother attorney and then she wrangled herself 382 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 2: to be in this position with coburger. That bothers me. 383 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 2: I don't know why, and it probably shouldn't, but it does. 384 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 2: But I mentioned Gara goes because he and Nancy go 385 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 2: head to head over ditty all the time. Oh yeah, 386 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 2: you know, Mark Garrigos does something that a lot of 387 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 2: people don't know. He has close times to Alabama. 388 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: You know. 389 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 2: Every year, every year Mark Garrigos does a pro bono 390 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 2: case in Alabama and usually it's a death penality case 391 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 2: for free. 392 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: I did not know that. 393 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 2: I had no idea, and that's kind of the measure 394 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 2: of the individual to me. So whether the Ann Taylor 395 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 2: thing bothers anybody but me, it's just like I said 396 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 2: to me, I'm thinking, if this was my daughter and 397 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 2: you're representing me in a court filing right now, and 398 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 2: you then leave to go and to get the guy 399 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 2: that killed my daughter, allegedly killed my daughter off. Yeah again, 400 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 2: maybe they're all fine with it. I don't know. 401 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: I don't Yeah, I mean I would have. I would 402 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: imagine again, you know, as it applause as as it 403 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: applause to as it appliues to two groups of people, well, 404 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: a group of people and a person. Yeah, the state 405 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: bar are they cool with it? Is it within the rules? 406 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: And in the judge are they cool with it? Because 407 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: I can tell you the judge would have they would 408 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: be fully aware of this. Oh yeah, and you know, 409 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: and I don't really know that there would necessarily be 410 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: a conflict of interest. I can't imagine. It's just like 411 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: it has a distaste to it, I think. 412 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 2: But you mentioned the judge has ordered a probe into 413 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: this thing. And that's why I wonder how many other 414 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 2: things have gone under the radar. This is a big 415 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 2: one because it was dayline. It was a big one 416 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 2: because information that was not readily available and not known 417 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 2: became known. That's a big deal. You know, a lot 418 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 2: of us have information that we kind of might have heard, 419 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 2: might have thought we heard, you know, something along the line, 420 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,959 Speaker 2: somebody said something out of turn before there was you know, 421 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: things like that happen all the time. Information comes out 422 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: really early. This is not part of that. This is 423 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 2: information that was developed, studied created. Finding that new video 424 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 2: or new to us of a car that looks like 425 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,719 Speaker 2: Coburger's car ads and around. 426 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: I mean it actually looks like it's The image that 427 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: they showed is actually clearer than the other ones that 428 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: I've seen. To me, it is, and maybe it's I 429 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: don't know, maybe that's after enhancement or whatever. Hey, can 430 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: I return to something real quick please? I'm thinking that 431 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: this is happening in the wake of arguably one of 432 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: the most high profile cases in Idaho history, the Coburger case. 433 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: Is it's not like people are not aware of what 434 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: the media are capable of, because when you think about 435 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: the day Bell case and just the round and round 436 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: and round with that whole thing, you would have thought 437 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 1: that perhaps lessons had been learned. And again, it's a 438 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: small population wise, it's a small state. News travels and 439 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: there's a central conduit for it if you're trying to 440 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: disseminate information down to other layers of law enforcement's the 441 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: state state police have been they were involved with a 442 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: day Bill case, they're involved with this case, and you 443 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: would think that you know somebody and the state Attorney General, Hey, look, 444 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: these are steps you need to avoid because we've gone 445 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: through a lot of stuff with the press already. But no, 446 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: that wasn't good enough for them. Now they're staring down 447 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: the barrel of what has just happened relative to day Line, 448 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: and I'm you know, I'm very curious about that. You know, 449 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: you begin to think about it and think, wow, is 450 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: it going to be something that is going to be 451 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: so catastrophic that perhaps not everything, but maybe some of 452 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,959 Speaker 1: those things that have been revealed, I don't know, are 453 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:58,239 Speaker 1: they What's the level or lack thereof of admissibility, you know, 454 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: of that evidence that's been it's been displayed. I don't know. 455 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: I have no idea. 456 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 2: Something interesting did happen this week in light of the dayline, 457 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 2: gag order whatever. Apparently Brian Coberger has fingered somebody else 458 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 2: that did the crime. Oh he yeah, gotcha, And the 459 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 2: judge has given certain rules to everybody. Now they want 460 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 2: to bring up this other suspect. He's not named publicly 461 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 2: yet the judge has it. And the judge said, okay, 462 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: you've got till May twenty third, give me all the 463 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 2: info you have on why this person is a suspect 464 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 2: and what information, what evidence you're going to bring to 465 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 2: trial that you think can go in at trial. And 466 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 2: then we're going to give the prosecution till June sixth 467 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 2: to straighten it out. And then I'll make a call. 468 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 1: But I have to ask you something real quick. I'm 469 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 1: going to be a major smart ass here and ask 470 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: a question real quick. I want to know, Dave, is 471 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: he doing this because he's such an Is his team 472 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: doing this because there's a there's such an altruist that 473 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: care about their fellow man so much that now they're 474 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: going to reveal the identity of a person that butchered 475 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 1: butchered these college students. Or is this information they've just 476 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: come into it's hot off the press. As a matter 477 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: of fact, it's so hot we can't even hold it, 478 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: you know, is that or have they known about this 479 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: suspect all along? Please riddle me this, Brian Coberger's team, 480 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: Is this information that you've had for a protracted period 481 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: of time and this person's been running the streets or 482 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: is this something that just like manner from Heaven, that 483 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: just happened to drop into your lap? I mean, inquiring 484 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: minds want to know. I think there were comments that 485 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: were made early on. I remember the God, it's been 486 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: so long now, do you remember they had it was 487 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: either a cat or a dog that had been skinned. 488 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: Do you remember that people were trying to give the 489 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: impression that it was some kind of ritualistic thing that 490 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: was going on, and that that, of course turned out 491 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: to be a big fat zero, you know along the way, 492 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, hey, And by the way, you know 493 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: I never got a call from Dateline to give them 494 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: permission to use my image on the air. Do you 495 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: think I got a case? I don't know. I'll have 496 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: to see. Maybe I can call one of the guys 497 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: on the billboards going down the highway. Maybe they'll they'll 498 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: look into it for me. What do you think, brother? 499 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 2: I think somebody there could help you. But you know, 500 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 2: there are a number of things with this case with 501 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 2: Coburger that you know. I have a question for you 502 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 2: based on what you know took place, the injuries done 503 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 2: to thevictims. We've got four people dead in a very 504 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: short window of time. According to what we've heard from 505 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 2: the prosecution. We know Xana Cronodle was getting food delivered 506 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 2: at four ten in the morning. We know she was 507 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 2: on her phone at four a weight. We know that 508 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 2: Coburger was in and out of there allegedly. If it's Coburger, 509 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 2: that you've got a window that starts after four to 510 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 2: ten and ends at four twenty five. If she's awake 511 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 2: and she's not the first one killed. First one is 512 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 2: Madison Mogan up top yep right, that timetable doesn't work 513 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,479 Speaker 2: for me. That's too close. So you've got at least 514 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 2: three people awake, Xana, who's getting food, and you've got 515 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 2: the two Dylan and Bethany. Dylan Mortenson and Bethany Funk. 516 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 2: They're both there because they're texting one another. So you've 517 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 2: got three people awake in that building at the time 518 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 2: when the murders are supposed to begin. You're gonna tell 519 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 2: me nobody screamed, nobody heard anything. See, we can't go 520 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: into that building to find out what that was like 521 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 2: because they tore it down, right. 522 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: The acoustics are gone. 523 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's something I have a lot of trouble with. 524 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 2: I'm just wondering now that just does not You're talking 525 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 2: about going up and downstairs, killing four people and only 526 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 2: leaving minimal evidence behind. 527 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: Well, I think you know, I was talking about how 528 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: everything in this case is about Tomline and you know, 529 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: what was happening before and after and if that, if 530 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: those that videography that we have from you know, the 531 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: previously unseen how does that how does that Tom stamp 532 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: match up with the story that we've been told thus far, 533 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: because you know what I know and what you know 534 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: is information that has to this point been released, been 535 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: released by law enforcement. Now a lot of the other 536 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: stuff is merely speculation. It's conclude usions that have been 537 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: drawn based upon these numbers. But if those numbers are 538 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: screwed up in the least in the least, okay, then 539 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: that's going to create a real problem. But we obviously 540 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: have tom stamps on activity, and I think TikTok was 541 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: involved relative to Xana. She had met on TikTok at 542 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: some point in time. That's going to be tom stamped 543 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: the information relative to food delivery. And that also draws 544 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: in another thing because people have asked me, is it 545 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: plausible that one individual and again maybe this is what 546 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: his defense team is going for here, is it plausible 547 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: that one individual could have come in here and perpetrated 548 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: this crime in this short amount of time with a 549 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: sharp instrument. You're talking about killing four people, and it's 550 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: in the twinkling of an eye in and out, you know. 551 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: And if Taylor can at least with that plant that 552 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: seed of reasonable doubt into the mind of the jury. 553 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: And she's got a client that I don't know how 554 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: to describe it. If she's got a client that someone 555 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: might sympathize with, then maybe that's doable. I have no idea, 556 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: but the timeline is going to be very, very important 557 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: and to a broader, broader issue too with me is 558 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:40,719 Speaker 1: the timeline from the time of death is also going 559 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: to be in question because because of the delay in 560 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: getting contact with the police, these kids have been dead 561 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: for hours. And if I've got a corner that saying, well, 562 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: it looks like they were asleep, Well, if that was 563 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: your assessment, that was your assessment at the scene, I 564 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: want to know, did you actually do post mortem interval 565 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: assessment of the bodies at the scene. Well, you're saying 566 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: they're sleeping. Turns out that they may have been in 567 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: bed at some point in time, but doesn't sound like 568 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: they were all in bed, and so therefore stands the 569 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: reason they're not all asleep. So you know that information 570 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: relative to timeline, the tom stamps on the CCTV tom stamps, 571 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: relative to phone, the travel of the car, and also 572 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: the PMI postmartum interval, and how was that assessed and 573 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: was there any was there any meat on the bone 574 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: with that scientifically anything that you could take back to 575 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: the people in in Boise, which is many people. Those 576 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: autopsies were not done in Moscow. They were taken to 577 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: Ada County, which is actually where the day Bell case 578 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: was handled as well, because that's where they have. A 579 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 1: forensic pathologist in Idaho is in Boise, and so they 580 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: contract with these smaller counties and they actually do the 581 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: autopsies for them. So when that data is relaid from 582 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: the scene, and hopefully it was done quickly, that one 583 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: of the questions of friends of pathologists is going to ask, 584 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: because they're not coming down there from Boise to observe 585 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: these bodies. It's their eyes and ears. Is this corner, Well, 586 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: how third of a job did you do there? Because 587 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: I can't wait to read the coroner's report, and there 588 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: should be one that is generated. Every corner generates report, 589 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: and it should be very detailed. With four bodies, Dave, 590 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: let's see, let me do the calculation of my mind. 591 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: With four bodies, those are four individual cases. I'm thinking 592 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: at least a minimum a minimum if I was a 593 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: supervisor in a medical examiner's office, I would want to 594 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: see at least a five page report on each and 595 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: every one of these victims, and that's including a lot 596 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: of detail in from chief among that information is going 597 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: to be your assessment of rigidity, the body fixation of 598 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: postmordal lividity, algor mortis, which is the temperature of the body, 599 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: and then not to mention the observable injuries that you 600 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: see in there, the clothing, environmental status. What's the environmental temperature? 601 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 1: Light it's the lighting like positionality of the body, triangulation 602 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: of the body unscene. I mean, all of this data 603 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 1: and then the history behind it. I would have to 604 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: see that in the case. It would have to be 605 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: that robust. So you're talking about at minimum eighteen to 606 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: twenty pages in total of reports that should have been 607 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: generated on a case like this per the coroner if 608 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,760 Speaker 1: they're doing their job. And that just kind of marries 609 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: up in my mind with somebody that helped design the 610 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: national standards for medical legal death investigator. That's right, that's 611 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: right in the sweet spot. That's right in the sweet spot. 612 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: I think at least we'll see what's in that report. 613 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,439 Speaker 2: Will we will will will that information be brought out 614 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 2: in court, because by the way they are going to 615 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 2: stream the trial, they're not going to stream jury selection, 616 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 2: but they are going to stream the trial. There are 617 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 2: going to be a couple of times where we're not 618 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 2: going to be able to They're not going to stream 619 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 2: certain testimony or at least the judge will decide later. 620 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 2: But the prosecution was asking about some of the detective 621 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 2: some people not being streamed, and I'm against that. If 622 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 2: you use the stream them or you're not, either everybody 623 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 2: gets to see everything or they don't. Now they have 624 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 2: beth Andy Funk and Dylan Mortenson are going to give 625 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 2: them the opportunity to be blurred on the stream, the 626 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:42,880 Speaker 2: streamed image to get their type, their identity or identity. 627 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 2: And I mean, that's fine, it's just I get, I get. 628 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 2: I can't imagine what they're going through. 629 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't understand it either, because even with uh 630 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: and I know you've heard well, I know you have 631 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: because you've worked worked on it with me. But for 632 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: those that did not that are not familiar with the pipe, 633 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: piked and masker, those trials there were one, two, three, four, 634 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: and we're still waiting on the fourth trial at this 635 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: point in that case, can you believe that all the 636 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,760 Speaker 1: way from twenty sixteen, still waiting on the dad's trial. 637 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,439 Speaker 1: In the previous trials, they would cut the feed when 638 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: certain individuals testified, and police officers, you know, they weren't 639 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: the sun that was directly responsible for shooting the most 640 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: of the victims. He asked that he not that his 641 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: testimony not be shown. I think it's a bunch of crap. 642 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 1: I think that if you get up on the stand, 643 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with them blurring images. It 644 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: should be streamed. It should be streamed, and you should 645 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: be able to see this. If you're going to have 646 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: get don't do it halfway. You know, you got one 647 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: foot in the boat and one foot in the water. 648 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 1: Go all the way in on it and show it. Okay, 649 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 1: you didn't sign up to be a police officer to 650 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: be hidden, all right, And this is not like I 651 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,319 Speaker 1: don't know. I guess they could say, well, these police 652 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: officers might be involved in future undercover operations. They don't 653 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 1: want their identities revealed and whatever, but you're going to 654 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: know their names. Yeah, you know. And like you said, 655 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,439 Speaker 1: we're wired in world now any you know, just because 656 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: you're a police officer doesn't mean that you know you 657 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 1: have anonymity. Far from it. 658 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,439 Speaker 2: Nowadays, I do think that with Dylan Mortenson and Bethany Funk, 659 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 2: because I've had my own questions about the two of 660 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 2: them and what they did or did. 661 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:33,759 Speaker 1: Not do everybody else. 662 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's but I'm made to feel like I'm 663 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 2: a horrible evil person for even asking, you know, but 664 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 2: I am curious if those are my kids, one of 665 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 2: my children that had died in that. Yeah, and there 666 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 2: were two people that were awake texting one another and 667 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 2: didn't bother to call police for seven eight hours. I mean, 668 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 2: I got a problem with that. I still have a 669 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 2: problem with that. 670 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole indwelling fear thing, you know kind of it. 671 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: It becomes unpalatable after a while. You know, you have 672 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 1: to have something more than that. And and listen, it's 673 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: not for us to necessarily explain they're going to be 674 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: asked us questions when they're on the stand now whether 675 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: or not people will be satisfied with the answers that here. 676 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: You know, I can't make any prediction about that. 677 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 2: You know, Joe in all of this where you know, 678 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 2: you have the one who is Dylan Mortenson with the 679 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 2: bushy eyebrows testimony, which is going to be in there 680 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 2: now because those are some of the things that were 681 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 2: ruled on that Coberger has. They've been trying to keep 682 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 2: certain testimony out and it seems like each time they've tried, 683 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 2: it's gone the other way, which is really odd to 684 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 2: me that we never heard of a possible other suspect 685 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 2: until after they were denied. All these other things that 686 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 2: they were trying to use to get the death endally tossed. 687 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,399 Speaker 1: Psych autism. Yeah, it's the same thing. 688 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 2: Gosh, come on, man, this guy can be in he's 689 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 2: in college to get his master's degree in criminal justice, 690 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 2: and yet he's not smart. He can't help with his 691 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 2: own defense. 692 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: But I don't, Yeah, I don't. I don't understand that. 693 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: I really don't. And again it's it's it's a ploy 694 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 1: of desperation, and listen, it irks me. I think on 695 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: one level that there are truly people that struggle with 696 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: autism in their life and it's being used as a 697 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: prop Yeah, I mean, that's that's kind of what you know, 698 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: the way it seems to me. 699 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 2: My grandson is on the spectrum. Joe, I've seen it. 700 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 2: I've seen that used and I've talked to you and 701 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 2: Kim about it because I was surprised at a number 702 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 2: of different things. I'm very proud of what he has 703 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 2: accomplished because. 704 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: He's a wonderful man, wonderful young man. 705 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,360 Speaker 2: Great kid. With the proxy of reading beyond grade level 706 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 2: is a big deal he has. He's originally hard at it. 707 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 2: But the thing is that I've had to study all 708 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 2: of this stuff to figure it out because I didn't 709 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,359 Speaker 2: know when they said on the spectrum, like, what does 710 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 2: that even mean? I hear it, but and then I 711 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 2: hear them applying it to this guy who has gone 712 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 2: through all these years of college and he's gone cross 713 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 2: country to study in what I mean? None of this 714 00:41:59,000 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 2: adds up to me. 715 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: Well, it's again again it comes down to now defense 716 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: hasn't said this. This is people in the media and 717 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: as people in general public that you know, we've just 718 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,479 Speaker 1: talked about this earlier that use the term in cell. 719 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: In cell is one of the most disingenuous, intellectually lazy 720 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: terms in the world because it lacks specificity. Uh, particularly 721 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: when you're talking about a a group of college kids 722 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,799 Speaker 1: that have been butchered. So that's your answer is going 723 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: to be in cell, and then we're just going to 724 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: kind of leave it at that, and then you know 725 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna, you know, and somebody is going to offer 726 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 1: up some kind of some kind of half assed explanation 727 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: for what in cell actually means. And that's and again 728 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 1: it's not in the D s M. It's not you know, 729 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: because they're trying to paint paint, you know, incell itis 730 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 1: I guess as an actual medical condition, and it's not. 731 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,399 Speaker 1: It's somebody's it's an Uh. It's a point of observation 732 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: of people that are intellectually lazy most of the time 733 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 1: that they don't want to dig any deeper relative to this, 734 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,399 Speaker 1: and it's easy. I think it makes them, It makes 735 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: it easy to explain, you know, why somebody would do 736 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,240 Speaker 1: something like this or gives them some kind of comfort. 737 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: What it comes down to is that I don't know 738 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: if it was Brian Coburger or not, but I do 739 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:30,719 Speaker 1: know this that whoever did this was a monster because 740 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: they had no compassion. Uh, they were absent heart, and 741 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:44,839 Speaker 1: they ended the lives of four promising young adults. I'm 742 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,640 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks