1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realists. Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate, and 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: we are celebrating too. In place of our typical weekly 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: listener mail program, we have a classic We dug through 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: the archives and we were thinking, what sort of speaks 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: to Thanksgiving and American history? And by gosh, by golly, 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: by gum, I think we found the frozen tundra. Yes. 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, In fourteen ninety two Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue. 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: And he also kind of and just like George Washington 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: famously said, I cannot bear a straight that's a weird level. 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: That's a weird level to that one. We'll keep it in. 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: There's more hidden the history ahead. But back in twenty 12 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: twenty five years ago, now, guys, more than five years ago, 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: we asked a question that has been bugging the heck 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: out of experts for so long. When did human beings 15 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: actually reach what we call the America right. 16 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 3: One of the most prominent theories about early human migration 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 3: and one that kids, I think still are taught in 18 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 3: school to this day. But we pause it. Maybe there's 19 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 3: something more to the store. 20 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: Was it Vikings, was it the old Mechs? Was it 21 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: a Polynesian expansion? And George. Sorry about that burying straight joke. 22 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: We didn't think through the levels of the wordplace. He's 23 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: rolling in his grave right now, Ben, he sure is well. 24 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: Cherry trees aside, we hope that you are having some 25 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,279 Speaker 1: wonderful R and R with your family and your loved ones. 26 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: Happy Thanksgiving again to those who celebrate. Here's our classic 27 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: episode and we'll be back later this week. 28 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is 29 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 30 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't got you to know. A 31 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 4: production of iHeartRadio. 32 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 33 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: name is Noel. 34 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with 35 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: our super producer, Paul Mission controlled Decant. Most importantly, you 36 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff 37 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. We're diving into some 38 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: hidden history today. We're diving into as hon as the 39 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: phrase may sound something new about history, because Faulkner was right. 40 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: Of course, the past isn't even the past yet. History 41 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: is never over. It's an ongoing conversation. Most people living 42 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: on the continents of North and South America are comparatively 43 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: recent arrivals. Right, While many people living in both South 44 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: and North America have a long family hitty here, if 45 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: you look at the larger scheme of human migration across 46 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: the planet, human beings are kind of a new thing 47 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: for these two continents. We know roughly, we know ballpark 48 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: the story of humanity. Ancestral primates evolved on the African continent, 49 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: and from there our species spread around the globe. However, 50 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: even today, in twenty twenty, on August seventh, twenty twenty, 51 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: as we record this, our species still gets bogged down 52 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: in the details, especially when we get to the timeline. 53 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: So today's question, when did human beings actually reach the 54 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: American continents? Here are the facts. 55 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 2: Most experts within the fields, the various fields of science, anthropology, 56 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 2: and the like. They agree that the story of the 57 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: continents of South and North America, at least as we 58 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: understand them now, they didn't begin with humans on them, 59 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: or humans were not there very early. These land masses 60 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: were home to a lot of creatures, a lot of animals, 61 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: a lot of flora and fauna well before human beings arrived. 62 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: And of course, if you're taking the really long look 63 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,799 Speaker 2: at the Earth. There are millions and millions of years 64 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: where humans weren't here, but there were other creatures. But 65 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 2: the big question for today is how did humans specifically 66 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: get here on to North and South America. 67 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 3: Well, the most common theory is this idea that involves 68 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 3: Clovis culture and the Bearing Land Bridge. By about fourteen 69 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 3: thousand years ago. Now, the first human beings to reach 70 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 3: the Americas came by crossing the Bearing Strait, which was 71 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 3: this land bridge between the far northeastern part of Siberia 72 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 3: and the western the farthest most western part of Alaska. 73 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 3: In this theory, known as the Bearing land Bridge theory, 74 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 3: is the one many of us grew up listen hearing about, 75 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 3: you know, in school. It actually makes a lot of sense. 76 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 3: It's the closest connection between Asia and North America and 77 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 3: it only opens when ice is locked up on land 78 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 3: and then sea level drops. 79 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a logic here. If we're talking about 80 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: early human migration, then we're talking about people basically walking 81 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: right and probably following sources of food, maybe other animals 82 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: that they rely on for sustenance. So it makes sense 83 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: that they would be able to walk to North America 84 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: from literally the only walkable path, which is this bearing 85 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: land bridge across the street that you're describing, nol. 86 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: And all of this is based on the idea that 87 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 2: early humans were unable to craft some kind of boat 88 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 2: or ship that would be able to traverse the Pacific 89 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 2: or Atlantic oceans in the way that we know began 90 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 2: to be able to do as technology developed. Just remember that, 91 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 2: that's why scientists always focus on that land bridge because 92 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: of the walkability. As Ben said, Yeah, yeah, that's. 93 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: A good point, Matt. And you know, let's get in 94 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,119 Speaker 1: front of the obvious question that many of us are 95 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: going to immediately ask, which is why can I not 96 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: walk across that bridge today? Why do I have to 97 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 1: take a boat or a flight, or why do I 98 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: have to go on a doomed mission to swim the 99 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: Pacific to reach Asia from the Americas. Well, that's because 100 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: we are living in a different time. Back when, according 101 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: to this theory, people walked from Asia to North America, 102 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: they were doing so during something called the Last Glacial 103 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: Maximum or LG. If this comes up so often in 104 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: conversation that you don't have time to say the whole. 105 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: Thing, also known as the previous ice age. Yes, the 106 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: most recent ice. 107 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: Age, the most recent ice age, Yeah, the one before 108 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: the next one, which maybe we'll be around to see. 109 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: Who knows, it's twenty twenty. I can't rule anything out 110 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: at this point. So back when people were traversing the 111 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: land in this way, much more of Earth's water was 112 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: existing in solid form in glaciers. And now the difference 113 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: between then and now is that the sea levels have risen, 114 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: so the bridge and the land these people walked is underwater, 115 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: meaning also that much of the evidence of their migration 116 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: is going to be lost to time, as the conventional 117 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: wisdom goes. By this time, I'm fourteen fifteen thousand years ago, 118 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: humans had migrated across the breadth of South and North America. 119 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: You go up to modern day Alaska, you got humans. 120 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: Go down to Chile, you got humans. The West coast 121 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: is riddled with them. You go to northeastern Canada, you 122 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: got people everywhere. You go down to Florida, boom, same thing, 123 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: people plus gators this time. So what we're telling you 124 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: right now is the official, most often told story. And 125 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: I want to pause here for you guys. Does this 126 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: track with what with Noel Matt? Does this track with 127 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: what you learned or were taught growing up about human migration. 128 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, yeah, this is precisely what what I recall 129 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: from world history classes, both in high school and in college. 130 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 2: Essentially what we've just described here, the Clovis, the closet hunters, 131 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 2: and the evidence that we have found of their lives 132 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: back in those days. And it was a long time ago. 133 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: But you know, when you look at the span of 134 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 2: what we know about humanity and the evidence that we found, 135 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 2: it wasn't it wasn't that long ago. 136 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I think this story 137 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: is going to be familiar to many of us because 138 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 1: you grow up in elementary school, middle school, high school, 139 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: as you said, Matt, you go to college and you'll 140 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: still hear some version of this. But the problem here 141 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: is pretty apparent. With every single new discovery about the 142 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: ancient past and the story of humanity's migration from one 143 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: place to the next, we find this story gets less 144 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: and less clear cut. We don't have we don't have 145 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: specific points of time and shifts of patterns, right, we 146 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: don't have the origin story of humanity. And this is 147 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: something that has baffled us on this show since before 148 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, we like we were doing this show when 149 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: science discovered new mixtapes of early humanity. Right, Dennis Ovans, 150 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: what was the other Homo flori floriensis. 151 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 152 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: The point I'm making here is that we have been 153 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: taught a story. We have been sold a narrative in 154 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: a very authoritative way, but everything we are learning as 155 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: a species indicates that story is not as accurate as 156 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: we are led to believe it is when we are 157 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: children in school. So that's the question, when did human 158 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: beings actually arrive in the Americas? 159 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 2: Before we jump in, Ben, I just want to dovetail 160 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 2: off what you were saying there. We have been sold 161 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 2: this essentially and told this all of our lives. Everyone 162 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 2: listening right now, I would say, just to make it 163 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 2: a little more positive, because it's it's the best picture 164 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: we've been able to paint with the information we've had 165 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 2: up to this point. Right. And the problem, I think 166 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: the biggest problem that we're going to be tackling today 167 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 2: that we have to address, is that once that picture 168 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 2: is painted, anytime new information, these new discoveries that you're 169 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: talking about, Ben, come through, it becomes more and more 170 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: difficult to convince the painters of that picture that there 171 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 2: needs to be some revisions, right, because especially if it's 172 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: a single point or discovery in one place, or a 173 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 2: discover you know, one person's one team's discovery rather than 174 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: three or four in an area. That's kind of the 175 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: biggest problem. 176 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. And it's important because we're 177 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: we're talking about discovering single points of information, right, single instances, 178 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: and what are single instances or examples against a larger 179 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: body of thoughts, you know what I mean? 180 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And I mean those high school textbooks aren't 181 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 3: like infinitely long. They got to figure out how to 182 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 3: tell a version of the story that is as close 183 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 3: to the likely scenario as possible and teaches you something 184 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 3: about the history of you know, life. But you're right, 185 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 3: it is problematic. It can be, for sure, because who 186 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 3: you know, there's so much cantankerousness and science too, of 187 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 3: people making one discovery and then another crew making something 188 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 3: that conflicts with that narrative, and then there's this kind 189 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 3: of beef as to how it really happened. But there's 190 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 3: a lot of policy takes wrapped up in it and 191 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 3: all of that. So it's interesting, for sure to see 192 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 3: the way these things kind of take on a life 193 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 3: of their own, especially, like I said, once the badger's 194 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 3: out of the bag, as Ben would say. 195 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the issue here. We want to be very clear. 196 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: We're not accusing your history textbook publishers of purposely lying 197 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: to you, and we are certainly not accusing your favorite 198 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: history teachers from grade school of lying to you. Teachers 199 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: work incredibly hard. They are some of the most important 200 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: people on the planet in my opinion, and they're not 201 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: out to beguile and deceive you, hopefully they're not supposed 202 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: to be. However, they're working with the information they have, right, 203 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: And when we look at the realm of science and 204 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: how science is communicated or disseminated to the population, we 205 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: see that to your point, met, sometimes people cling to 206 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: a thing because it is the established fact. Now that 207 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: that is indicative of a lack of skepticism or a 208 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: lack of critical thinking, it's also a very human understandable 209 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: thing psychologically speaking, right, I don't I don't want to 210 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: seem as though we are being dismissive or derogatory toward 211 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: the many people who have spent their entire academic careers 212 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: studying various incredibly specific aspects of clovist theory or the 213 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: current official story of human migration. But I will say 214 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: in the past, I am sure there are people who 215 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: spent decades researching one thing and published about it, and 216 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: then there and then new evidence was discovered that disproved 217 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: or challenged their life's work, and so they just kind of, 218 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: you know, played it to the left. What am I 219 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: going to do after forty five years in the game 220 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: change my mind to be a better world if people 221 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: did that, but they often don't. 222 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, It's it's another situation where once you have this 223 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 2: established fact, you have to go far and beyond to 224 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 2: prove that you're that that fact needs to be altered 225 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 2: or negated, right you. That's why it becomes so difficult 226 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 2: to make these big changes to existing stories. And they 227 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: are stories. Don't don't don't kids yourself. These are stories 228 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: that we are constructing based on the things that we 229 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 2: have found. And as we tackle this big question today, 230 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: when did humans arrive in the Americas, we're going to 231 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 2: realize that this thing is much more complicated than we expected. 232 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: And we'll tell you all about it. Right after a 233 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: word from our sponsor. 234 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. You see the timeline is 235 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: shifting on us. The things we treated with such certitude 236 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: turned out to be much less absolute than we had imagined. 237 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: And it again, it goes back to the timeline. I 238 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: think that's a big part of what the three of 239 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: us are talking about today. 240 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. I mean you may recall that we 241 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 3: only said human beings were spread across the continents by 242 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 3: fourteen to fifteen thousand years ago. For authors like Craig Childs, 243 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 3: this shows that humanity by this point was most likely 244 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 3: already pretty well spread throughout one or more areas of 245 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 3: the continents before this, and there are several major theories 246 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 3: that explain this. So let's start with a theory that 247 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 3: we sort of talked about at the top of the show, 248 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 3: the Clovis first theory. This is the idea that the 249 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 3: first human migration happened after the last glacial maximum, which 250 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 3: is exactly what it sounds like, and this migration later 251 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 3: went into decline, only to be followed up by, you know, 252 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 3: subsequent waves of humans from other parts of the world. 253 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 3: So this connects all of these first inhabitants of the 254 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 3: Americas with the Clovis culture, which is something called a 255 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 3: prehistorica paleo American culture that's named for the distinctive stone 256 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 3: tools that were found in Clovis, New Mexico in the twenties. 257 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 3: This also rolls into that bearing Land Strait idea which 258 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 3: we've talked about in previous episodes and or at the 259 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 3: top of this one. 260 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: So this is your I guess. In the UK they 261 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: would call it your bog standard explanation for how human 262 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: beings ended up on these continents is because this concept 263 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: existed for a very long time, despite the fact that 264 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: there were so many questions about it. If you look 265 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: at the Clovis Culture, the Clovis people, you'll find an 266 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: historical mystery. It's as if they appeared out of nowhere 267 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: and then suddenly disappeared. Radiocarbon dating tells us that what 268 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: we regard as the people of the Clovis culture appeared 269 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: in modern day America around nine thousand, two hundred BCE, 270 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: and then five hundred years later they vanished. So the 271 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: important distinction there that you're bringing up no is the 272 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: idea that these folks came over after that glacial maximum, 273 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: after that ice age. Around the decline of that ice age, 274 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: they were able to traverse the siege perilous of the 275 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 1: Bearing Strait, and they were from there able to spread 276 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: throughout the continent. But of course this theory did not 277 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: exist in a vacuum. There are many other theories about 278 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: early humans arriving on these continents, and for centuries, people 279 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: have argued back and forth about this, even before they 280 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: could find solid evidence. What I mean by this is, 281 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:35,239 Speaker 1: even before we had scientific standards for collecting, cataloging, and 282 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: contextualizing evidence and information, we had many, many beliefs in 283 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: civilization about humanity's origin story. On this continent. You will 284 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: find numerous religions that argue some version of an original 285 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: person springing out of whole cloth or in some cases 286 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 1: being created by a divine entity on these continents. And 287 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: then you will also see further research that's admittedly more secular, 288 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: that kind of forensically traces what we know about people 289 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: on the planet on other continents. Right like this is 290 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: let's just say it coastal migration. Could people have gotten 291 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: here by boats? Because if you can build a boat, 292 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: that seems at least a little bit it seems a 293 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: little bit easier to travel to this new land via 294 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: watercraft than to walk through the frozen wastelands of the 295 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: Bearing Strait. 296 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 4: Oh. 297 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 2: Absolutely. And note here that we're talking about coastal migration, 298 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 2: and that sounds exactly like you imagine it to be. 299 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 2: That is following along a coast at you know, some 300 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 2: distance far enough away from it, but essentially following the 301 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 2: water along a coast on a boat of some kind. 302 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 2: That doesn't mean going straight out into the ocean or 303 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 2: the way you can with larger ships and more reliable ships. 304 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:22,959 Speaker 2: Now it's very different. So there are a lot of sources, 305 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 2: there are a lot of people institutions, and there's some 306 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: research that suggests that this may be a possibility coastal migration. 307 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: So we know for sure that in places like Japan 308 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 2: and parts of Korea South Korea, there have been amazing 309 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: archaeological discoveries that have found that humans during the Ice 310 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 2: Age were able to navigate coastal waters even though it 311 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 2: was so frigid and there's ice in many places, they 312 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: were able to do that, and they were essentially navigating 313 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 2: the Northern Pacific coast hosts of what is now modern 314 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 2: or what we would consider modern day Japan and Korea 315 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 2: and come Chaka with boats. So it's really no stretch 316 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 2: to imagine that humans at some point perhaps were able 317 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 2: to reach the America's by boat using coastal migration. And 318 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 2: here's why it makes sense, because you could right at 319 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 2: the end of the ice age there where we're imagining 320 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 2: that people were physically walking across that bearing straight perhaps 321 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 2: they were on boats just previous to the end of 322 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 2: that glacial maximum, or during the maximum, or even after it, 323 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: taking boats and following that coast, because you'd end up 324 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 2: in Alaska, you'd get to British Columbia, then down south 325 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 2: to Washington, to Oregon, all along the Pacific coast of 326 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 2: what is now the United States. And it's pretty incredible 327 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 2: that humanity, even during an ice age, was able to 328 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 2: both survive and prosper and even migrate. 329 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: It's strange to think about the world in that way, 330 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: to imagine a contiguous coast. And I like the point 331 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,719 Speaker 1: you're making that about the watercraft involved, because you know, 332 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: these aren't cargo ships. These aren't megayachts or schooners or 333 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: brigtines or pontoons or I'm just naming boat boat words. Now, 334 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: does anybody else have a boat? What's that one? You like? 335 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: Nold frigate frigate. 336 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, friggin frigate. 337 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: These were none of those things. 338 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 2: These were boat okay, sorry. 339 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: Tugboat yes, these these were not even tugboats. They were 340 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: they were small coastal craft, right, like brown water Navy 341 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. They weren't meant to go into the 342 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: open ocean. They were just kind of tracing along the 343 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: line of the co But if that coast is never ending, 344 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,959 Speaker 1: so they're just sort of following a thing, and it's 345 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: like a video game wherein that you know there is 346 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: a larger world out there. You have a rough idea 347 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: of the parts of the map you've seen, but everything 348 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: else is obscured. 349 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 4: You know what I mean. 350 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: So you may as well imagine that you are just 351 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: always on the same coast of a thing you call 352 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: the land. Who knows if there's anything other than the land, 353 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: and then you know, the water. 354 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 2: What is compelling about that to me is what what 355 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 2: spurred that movement? And you know, we discussed we discussed 356 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 2: the migration of animals that we used for hunting, right 357 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 2: for food for the populations, as a possible reason to 358 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 2: just continue down the coast. If fish populations, maybe because 359 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 2: it's obvious that those boats were would be used for 360 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 2: fishing purposes, for catching food. You know, I wonder if 361 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 2: there was something. This is completely just off the top 362 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 2: of my head, but I wonder what the thing was 363 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:15,239 Speaker 2: that spurred whichever group, however large or small, it was, 364 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 2: to continue down that coast and just to keep going 365 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 2: to see what's what's next. Oh I wish I knew. 366 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: I mean, necessity, I would imagine possible. 367 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 2: But I wonder if it wasn't. 368 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: I wonder if it was a spiritual belief. 369 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 2: Or or something that's deep inside. I think all of 370 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 2: us to just find out, Well, there's something over there. 371 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 2: Let's let's find out. 372 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: That's inspiring, you know, especially now as the next big 373 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: step in space exploration may occur within our lifetimes. On 374 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: one other thing that may have happened just environmentally is 375 00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: people may have just been following the recession of the ice. 376 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: Depending on where you put them in the timeline, people 377 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: may have just been going further along the coast because 378 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: they were able to see more of the coast. I'm 379 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: not being dismissive. I'm just saying, like it the environment 380 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: appears to change so slowly that you might not be 381 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: fully aware of how far you're migrating because you know 382 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: your grandparents were miles away or kilometers away for the 383 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: rest of the world, and then you two generations later, 384 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: still feel like you're by the edge of the ice, 385 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: but the ice itself has moved. 386 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 3: So I think we're going to take one more quick 387 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 3: break and then we're going to get into some new 388 00:26:47,160 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 3: discoveries when we return. So there have been some, it's 389 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 3: recently some research that's kinda put this traditional narrative on 390 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 3: its head a bit, and that includes some stuff very 391 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 3: very recently published just in the last month. In a 392 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 3: paper known called the Timing and Effect of the Earliest 393 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 3: Human Arrivals in North America, Loreena Bassera Valdiva and Thomas 394 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 3: Hyam look into a pretty awesome and bizarre discovery. What 395 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 3: they found was a piece of limestone from this very 396 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 3: specific cave, the Chickwahite Cave in north central Mexico, that 397 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 3: could potentially prove that humans actually first arrived in the 398 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 3: continent much much earlier than that narrative would have us believe, 399 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 3: the one we know from school. 400 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: Yes, ah, I've waited for this, Okay, So, like many 401 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: of our fellow listeners, we grew up, I don't want 402 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: to speak for everybody. Let me clear. I grew up 403 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: convinced that there was hidden history everywhere, you know, and 404 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: I was I was certain, probably just because I was 405 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: a jerk, that human beings had all these ancient civilizations 406 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: and that they had a much longer time on these 407 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: two continents specifically, and without getting into the weeds on 408 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: all the crazy stuff that's out there, this is different 409 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: because this is proof. This is quantitative proof that the 410 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: first people, if people built these tools you're mentioning, no, 411 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: arrived on North and South America, like thirty three thousand 412 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: years ago. That's nuts, just to put, just to put 413 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: in perspective how much time that is. I hope no 414 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: one gets mad at me for bringing this up. Nineteen 415 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: eighty was forty years ago, right, So, like I think 416 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: that's going to hit people when you think about thirty 417 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: three thousand years. 418 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, let's just pretend that humans live one 419 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: hundred years, right, that's three hundred and thirty human like human. 420 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: Cycles, iterations. 421 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 2: Versions. 422 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a very very long story. And you know, 423 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: for quite a while there would be various people propagating 424 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: what was essentially some narrative without proof they would say, 425 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: you know, I have had a spiritual awakening and I 426 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: realized that the true story of insert usually specific brand 427 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: of people here is that they came to modern day 428 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: South or Central America or North America, like after the 429 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: fall of Atlantis or the sinking of Lemuria or something. 430 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: And the problem is they didn't have proof. This is different, 431 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: because this is not tinfoil hat territory. Archaeologists in this 432 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:18,719 Speaker 1: cave discovered specifically three deliberately shaped pieces of limestone. They 433 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: discovered a pointing stone and two cutting flakes. Right now, 434 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: pending new discoveries, these are the oldest human made tools 435 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: discovered on these continents. They absolutely do not fit that 436 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: timeline we were all taught in school. Also, they're also 437 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: just one of several discoveries in this cave. Because this 438 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: cave is like an episode of Hoarders where the hoarder 439 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: is just collecting sediment. The archaeologists spent a lot of 440 00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: arduous time digging carefully through various layers of sediment. It's 441 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: kind of like a time capsule time machine. And these 442 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: tools they found are in like the very back of 443 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: the cave, in the deepest layer of the random rocks 444 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: and pebbles and bits of sediment that have accumulated there 445 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: over time. This is important because when we know the 446 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: layer in which they were found, we have an enormous 447 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: head start on figuring out when they were left in 448 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: that layer. And these things were here way before the 449 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: last glacial maximum, way before the last ice age that occurred, 450 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: like what between twenty six thousand and nineteen thousand years ago, 451 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: which means before that, someone was in this cave and 452 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: they had made tools, and they they forgot them. So 453 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: if you think about it, because somebody did the equivalent 454 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: of forgetting their keys at home, we are up the 455 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: story of human history thousands of years later. 456 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 2: We truly are. And we're going to tell you more 457 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 2: about how this discovery was occurred. But I want to 458 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 2: jump to another recent article from Nature that was published 459 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 2: in July of this year, twenty twenty, and it is 460 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 2: titled evidence of human occupation in Mexico around the Last 461 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 2: Glacial Maximum, and I'm going to read a quick quote 462 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 2: from the abstract of it just to give you an 463 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 2: understanding what's happening here. It's pretty incredible because not only 464 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 2: did they find those limestone artifacts that we're talking about, 465 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,959 Speaker 2: there are those tools. There was a lot more and 466 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 2: there is a lot more still being found right now. 467 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 2: So from this article, it states the site yielded about 468 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 2: one thousand, nine hundred stone artifacts within a three meter 469 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 2: deep stratified sequence, revealing a previously unknown lithic industry that 470 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 2: underwent only minor changes over millennia. More than fifty radiocarbon 471 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 2: and luminescence dates provide chronological control and genetic, paleo, environmental, 472 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 2: and chemical data that document the changing environments in which 473 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 2: the occupants lived. Now, that is when you're talking about 474 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 2: finding proof right that you could be able to show 475 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 2: to another scientist, to fellow sciences and say, hey, look 476 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 2: at all of this data we've collected from these things. 477 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 2: You're talking about several different ways in which they are 478 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 2: testing this stuff with luminescence testing, with radiocarbon testing. I mean, 479 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 2: it's pretty incredible stuff here, and it really does show 480 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 2: that humans were in that cave, as Ben said, way 481 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 2: before that ice age. And these researchers and scientists who 482 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 2: are there in that cave are continuing and they're going 483 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 2: to keep digging and they're going to keep looking, and 484 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 2: who knows what else we're going to discover. But the 485 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: reason why it took so long to find this stuff, 486 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 2: and it will take a long long time to probably 487 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 2: find more, is because of how difficult it is to 488 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 2: reach this location. 489 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: This is kind of a sunk cost for those poor archaeologists. 490 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,919 Speaker 1: The lead author of one of those studies is very 491 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 1: very clear about how much of a pain in the 492 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: keyster it is to get to this cave at all. 493 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: He said that once they got there. Cyprian Arduine, by 494 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: the way, lead author of that you're mentioning, Matt, he 495 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: said that once they got there, they just had to 496 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 1: live there. It takes the whole day to get there 497 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: from the nearest town, and part of that day is 498 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: a continuous five hour climb. He called it a logistical nightmare. 499 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: So it's one of those things where have you ever 500 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: been in a very unusual place or a place that 501 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: was very difficult to get to and you just thought, 502 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, while I'm here, I'm gonna do everything I can. 503 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: That's what they're doing in this cave. They're saying, Okay, 504 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: while we're here, let's get all of the information that 505 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: we can find. This is a logistical nightmare. But the 506 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: nightmare has paid off because it appears that this cave 507 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: was not used once. It is tremendously important distinction. This 508 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: cave was not something that an early human being accidentally 509 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: happened to spend the night in right and then left 510 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: their tools and went on their merry way. This cave 511 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: was used over thousands of years by various people. It 512 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 1: was kind of it was like a Trogloditic version of 513 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: a hotel. It's use Trogoladitic again, yes, last time. But 514 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: what we mean here is was a long It was 515 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 1: a longstanding known temporary refuge for some sort of nomadic people, 516 00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: and they must have communicated knowledge of this cave to 517 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: later generations, possibly via oral history. Maybe enough time passed 518 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: that that oral history became legend. 519 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,399 Speaker 2: You can imagine that it might have been some kind 520 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 2: of religious pilgrimage of some sort or something. I mean 521 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 2: again that's me completely making it up, but you can 522 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 2: imagine that something like that could be the scenario. Because 523 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 2: of what they've been finding. There could be a very 524 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 2: special cave for one reason or another that we just 525 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 2: don't know yet. 526 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't know. That's the thing. The history is 527 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: so thin here because of all the time that is 528 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: passed what we do know is that the conventional story 529 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: many people were taught needs some revision. It needs to 530 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: be updated. It's astonishing because most of North America was 531 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: covered with ice during that ice age. So if people 532 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: were leaving tools in this cave at this time, and 533 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 1: if they were raiding coastally right or however they got here, 534 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: it means that they got here before that ice age began, 535 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: or that means it's possible they did. So this means 536 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: that despite everything a lot of people were taught in 537 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 1: grade school. It appears that at least very small numbers 538 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: of human beings lived in North America and possibly other 539 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: parts of these two continents, Central and South America during 540 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: and immediately after the last Ice Age, And what we 541 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: thought was the first migration is actually a second or 542 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: subsequent wave. The human population grew larger after this period 543 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: of abrupt kind of global warming that started fourteen to 544 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand years ago. So don't call it a comeback. 545 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 1: They've always been here, right, It's strange. 546 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I think that study also suggested that 547 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 3: some people had entered the America as before four twenty 548 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 3: nine thousand years ago, and that's possibly along the Pacific Coast. 549 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 3: And one final note, anthropologist Matthew de Lauriers of California 550 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 3: State in San Bernardino raises a really important question to 551 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 3: kind of leave you with. How could ancient people who 552 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 3: had been in the Americas for more than twenty five 553 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 3: thousand years have remained quote archaeologically invisible for over ten 554 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,280 Speaker 3: thousand years? 555 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 2: And he has an answer, he does, But his big 556 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 2: question there is raised from the fact that in other 557 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 2: places like Australia, in Japan, archaeologists have had no difficulty 558 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 2: in finding evidence of human occupation from that same time period. 559 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 2: They've been able to dig down and find oh wow, yeah, 560 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 2: this is from twenty thirty thousand years ago. Why haven't 561 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 2: American archaeologists found that? Or you know, South American North 562 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 2: American archaeologs, why haven't we found the same things? And 563 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 2: his statement to that idea is, quote, archaeologists in the 564 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 2: Americas have either been doing things very wrong for the 565 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 2: last ninety years, or we have here an anomaly that 566 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 2: must be accounted for. It makes a lot of sense 567 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 2: to me. It's an anomaly either way. I would say, 568 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 2: it feels like an anomaly that must be accounted for. 569 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 2: Right and that's not the only big discovery, though this 570 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 2: one I'm gonna mention here isn't as recent. It goes 571 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 2: back to the turn of the millennium, back in two 572 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 2: thousand and even before that. There's a place in Brazil. 573 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 2: It's a national park called Sarah de Capivara. There are 574 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 2: several sites there. I think there are four hundred or 575 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,839 Speaker 2: something archaeological dig sites in this national park and in 576 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,280 Speaker 2: a few of them there have been paintings, these amazing 577 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:03,240 Speaker 2: cave paintings as well well as other evidence of human 578 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 2: life in that area. That appears to go back twenty 579 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 2: two thousand years and perhaps even further in Brazil. So again, 580 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 2: that's humanity in South America in Brazil a long time 581 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 2: before the history books would would say that we are. 582 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,479 Speaker 2: But that is a whole different story for another day. 583 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: And also a listeners will note that's pretty far from 584 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: the Pacific coast. 585 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 2: It is, it really is, so both sides, it appears 586 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 2: of the continents we're being visited by humans, at least visited, 587 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 2: if not lived upon. 588 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: So what do you think, folks, when did the first 589 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: human beings actually reach the American continents? Let us know, 590 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear your thoughts. You can find us 591 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: all sorts of places on the Internet. 592 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 2: And also, do you think we've got anything wrong when 593 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 2: it comes to the history of humans on the planet. 594 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 2: Do you think there's something being hidden from us? Do 595 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 2: you think there's something we just haven't discovered yet? Anything 596 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 2: along those realms we'd love to hear from you. 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