Speaker 1: This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, your
Speaker 1: war room for incenter news and draft analysis from deep
Speaker 1: within the confines of Cowboys Headquarters at the Star in Frisco.
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys like T. D. Lamb and now your hosts
Speaker 1: Dane Brugler, Jeff Kavanaugh, Kevin Turner and Kyle Yeomans go.
Speaker 1: We are just sixty three days away from the NFL
Speaker 1: Draft in Cleveland, Ohio. As it is time now for
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, presented by Miller
Speaker 1: Lite as always from the s WBC Mortgage Studios at
Speaker 1: the Star in Frisco. Glad you're with us, Kyle Yeoman's
Speaker 1: Jeff Kavanaugh, We've got Dame Brugler from the Athletic and
Speaker 1: Kevin Kate T. Turner ready to break down some guys.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk a lot of defensive line, answer a
Speaker 1: ton of Twitter on the twenty questions coming up here
Speaker 1: in the next twenty minutes or so, because well there's
Speaker 1: a lot of them. I may I put out a
Speaker 1: question last night, a tweet real quickly about it, and
Speaker 1: we had over forty questions asked. So we've got to
Speaker 1: hit a bunch of those today. And maybe even more
Speaker 1: next week. We'll have to just kind of carry them
Speaker 1: over day by Dave, Glad you're with us, Chris being
Speaker 1: back in the studio as always running things, and Dane,
Speaker 1: you had some wide receivers that you wanted to talk about.
Speaker 1: You just put it out your top twenty wide receivers
Speaker 1: on the Athletic. Highly encourage you guys to talk about that.
Speaker 1: But Katie and Jeff, are we really looking at wide
Speaker 1: receivers whenever it comes to the Cowboys? Is that a
Speaker 1: realistic need or is this something that may just be
Speaker 1: kind of a late round thing. Whenever you have ten
Speaker 1: plus draft picks, they could pick one. I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess that question could go two different ways. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be opposed to picking one at number ten if you
Speaker 1: think he's the best player available, and then you just
Speaker 1: make your roster work from there. But I met realistically
Speaker 1: for the Cowboys, you know you still have Noah Brown
Speaker 1: and Cedric Wilson. But teams pick wide receivers, and you
Speaker 1: could I could pick one to just have him on
Speaker 1: standby and maybe to make the roster and maybe to
Speaker 1: be a next year factor on the roster, so they
Speaker 1: can definitely use a pick on a wide receiver, I'd
Speaker 1: be really surprised if it was early. Yeah. Actually, I
Speaker 1: think it's kind of foolish to A think that Michael
Speaker 1: Gallop will be here long term and B and not
Speaker 1: not because of anything Michael's done. It's just if money
Speaker 1: goes to DAK like it might, then Michael Gallop is
Speaker 1: probably not going to be signing an extension. And B
Speaker 1: I think it's foolish to be like, well, Mary Cooper
Speaker 1: is a beacon of health. So I mean honestly, if
Speaker 1: you're sitting there at ten and Kyle Pitts is there,
Speaker 1: you probably consider it. And I know everyone's maybe I'm
Speaker 1: going to freak out about that, but you consider it.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna talk wide receiver, you might as well
Speaker 1: do it with Kyle Pitts the tight end wide receiver
Speaker 1: at ten. But day three, I know there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people who want to go all defense on the draft,
Speaker 1: and I'm not opposed to that, but if there's someone
Speaker 1: you like there on Day three. As wide receivers in
Speaker 1: this draft keep falling and falling and falling because the
Speaker 1: depth of that position is outstanding. As Dane's list can
Speaker 1: attest too, and it's I think our rankings will attest
Speaker 1: to I nothing wrong with taking a wide receiver in
Speaker 1: this year's draft. In fact, I think it's a wise
Speaker 1: thing to do. I think it can be something there. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: to Katie's point, that's his wide receiver class is so
Speaker 1: unique because it's there's so the volume of talent at
Speaker 1: the position is just so impressive and it's been that's
Speaker 1: saying something compared to last year as a group, when
Speaker 1: we set a record for the most draft pick at
Speaker 1: the position in the first two rounds. But I think
Speaker 1: this year we could have more draft picks in the
Speaker 1: top one hundred picks at wide receiver than we did
Speaker 1: last year. So you know, and if we don't, that
Speaker 1: means there's gonna be some pretty darn good receivers available
Speaker 1: into Day three, which you know, there's gonna be some teams,
Speaker 1: maybe the Cowboys included, who could be sitting tight and saying,
Speaker 1: all right, let's you know, let's see who falls to us.
Speaker 1: And if one of these guys, whether that's you know,
Speaker 1: a Josh Palmer from Tennessee or you know, Frank Darby
Speaker 1: from Arizona State, one of these really talented receivers that
Speaker 1: in most years is going in the first three rounds.
Speaker 1: If they're available in the fourth or fifth, the value
Speaker 1: might be too good to pass up. It's pretty impressive,
Speaker 1: I mean, back to back years like we've had with
Speaker 1: these wide receivers in total, because I mean in the past,
Speaker 1: you look at the wide receiver group, it's always been strong.
Speaker 1: But even twenty twenty one, you look at those top
Speaker 1: three receivers, Ceedee Lamb. Then you follow that up with
Speaker 1: Henry Ruggs and of course Jerry Judy. Now you move
Speaker 1: on and you have kind of that big three again,
Speaker 1: and that's what we kind of want to talk about
Speaker 1: initially is Jamar Chase, Jalin Waddle, and Davante Smith of
Speaker 1: course the Heisman winner out of Alabama. I mean, there
Speaker 1: are plenty of wide receivers there up at the top
Speaker 1: of the draft, but Dane, you just mentioned it. I mean,
Speaker 1: it might be just as deep of a draft as
Speaker 1: we've seen at the position ever. And that's impressive to
Speaker 1: me and its own right, just based off of the
Speaker 1: fact that, well, you haven't necessarily seen that from a
Speaker 1: position like the wide receiver group in the past. Yea,
Speaker 1: And honestly, this might be the new norm for the
Speaker 1: position when you factor in, uh, you know how how
Speaker 1: colleges college offenses are evolving. You know, we're seeing a
Speaker 1: lot more it's just a lot of spread, a lot
Speaker 1: of wide open, a lot of just let your quarterback
Speaker 1: get the ball to athletes on the perimeter. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: you're looking for matchups, you're looking for explosive plays. Who's
Speaker 1: gonna make that happen. It's the receivers. And so as
Speaker 1: you know, NFL offense offenses start to really really mirror that,
Speaker 1: we're gonna see a lot of turnover at the receiver
Speaker 1: position these next few years, and it's going to be
Speaker 1: a very crowded group and it's gonna make it for
Speaker 1: some really interesting evaluations because we have to go even
Speaker 1: further in depth on these guys to really you know,
Speaker 1: to term in you know, okay, what's the how did
Speaker 1: these guys stack up? And it's tough. I had I
Speaker 1: had a tough time doing this top twenty. Um, you
Speaker 1: know it's I feel good about my top three, and
Speaker 1: then I feel good about four. And then that's where
Speaker 1: it starts to get really uh you know about preference,
Speaker 1: and you know you're splitting hairs on some of these guys,
Speaker 1: you know, what can you You really have to start
Speaker 1: focusing on not what they can't do, but what they
Speaker 1: can do and how does that impact your game at
Speaker 1: the game at the next level, and who it can
Speaker 1: impact it greater, or maybe who's more polished, who's got
Speaker 1: a you know, it's a ceiling verse floor argument. So
Speaker 1: there's so many different ways you can look at these receivers.
Speaker 1: I don't expect everybody to agree with one through twenty.
Speaker 1: I think everybody, you know, team to team, evaluator to evaluator,
Speaker 1: they're going to have their own order and it's going
Speaker 1: to differ. So it's just a really interesting exercise to
Speaker 1: try to stack all these guys. Katie, you mentioned Kyle Pitts,
Speaker 1: and I think certainly he's one of the most talented,
Speaker 1: if not the most talented position play in the draft
Speaker 1: outside of quarterback. And I mean, whenever we talked about
Speaker 1: the top three receivers like a Jamar Chase and DeVante
Speaker 1: Smith and a Jalin Waddle, where does Kyle Pitts rank
Speaker 1: among those three And is there a chance that any
Speaker 1: of those three guys if they're there at ten, Because
Speaker 1: chances are there will be one of those three at
Speaker 1: ten that the Cowboys at least look that direction, But
Speaker 1: is that still even a realistic possibility with the needs
Speaker 1: they have on defense? I mean I still would have personally,
Speaker 1: I mean, Kyle Pitts is such a matchup maker. It
Speaker 1: almost matters what you have on your team. And I know,
Speaker 1: like I should give like a salacious answer that he
Speaker 1: would be my number one wide receiver, but he would
Speaker 1: not be for me. Though my list is a little
Speaker 1: different than Danes a little bit. I mean, the top
Speaker 1: three guys, but I still have Davante Smith is my
Speaker 1: number one wide receiver, and then Chase and then Waddle
Speaker 1: and love them all. I would probably be Smith, Chase Waddle,
Speaker 1: and then Kyle Pitts, depending on what you're asking me
Speaker 1: to do. Though, you know, it's it's just a little
Speaker 1: different what you have on your roster, because I do
Speaker 1: think supplementing what you have is important. I think if
Speaker 1: you have the same types of wide receivers, that's fine,
Speaker 1: but I think it's a lot more dangerous if you
Speaker 1: have a home run threat, a clear separator, a physical guy,
Speaker 1: and you can have them all and piece them together.
Speaker 1: You know, That's that's where I kind of looks So
Speaker 1: from a Cowboys perspective, you know, we know Ceedee Lamp
Speaker 1: can kind of do it all. You know how Mary
Speaker 1: Cooper is kind of your separator guy. We know Michael
Speaker 1: Gallup's kind of your physical and deep ball type of
Speaker 1: threat most of the time. And that's not saying that
Speaker 1: none of these guys can't do some of those other things.
Speaker 1: You know, how does Kyle Pitts fit into that? They
Speaker 1: don't need that right now. Looks good next year, though,
Speaker 1: doesn't it if Michael Gallup is gone. So that's what
Speaker 1: things kind of change for me. So I would still
Speaker 1: have those three wide receivers over Pitts, just for like
Speaker 1: that if you're drafting a wide receiver. But because if
Speaker 1: I'm drafting Kyle Pitts, I'm using him as a tight
Speaker 1: end as well. I will put him in line every
Speaker 1: now and then just to throw off formations and things
Speaker 1: like that. Dane, why do you have Davante Smith third
Speaker 1: on that list behind his teammate Jalelen Waddle and then
Speaker 1: of course Jamar Chase, who was your number one wide receiver,
Speaker 1: Because I mean, of course the historic seas that Davante
Speaker 1: Smith ended up having, You're still not necessarily convinced he
Speaker 1: could translate to the to the next level at least
Speaker 1: better than those two guys. No, I mean, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: phrase it like that because I mean, I'm convinced he'll
Speaker 1: be fine at the next level. It's just you got
Speaker 1: to separate these guys somehow. And you know, to me,
Speaker 1: Jamar Chase, Uh, you know, I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people, not a lot of people. Some people are
Speaker 1: you know, just they've they've kind of forgotten how dominant
Speaker 1: he was last year. Um. You know, he's he's not
Speaker 1: six four, he's more like six foot. He's not a
Speaker 1: fourth three athlete. He's more of a you know, four
Speaker 1: four eight type of athlete. But his ability to get open,
Speaker 1: his ball skills down the field are just you know,
Speaker 1: it's Larry fitzgerald s And uh, to me, with what
Speaker 1: he did last year, that that just sold me. Um,
Speaker 1: he's the top receiver in this draft in my opinion.
Speaker 1: And then it comes to the Alabama guys, and this
Speaker 1: is what it gets difficult because Davante Smith, I mean,
Speaker 1: how do you look at what he did this year
Speaker 1: and not be impressed and you know he will translate
Speaker 1: to the next level. Um, the one hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: five pounds does it doesn't scare me? Yeah, sure, I
Speaker 1: think you'd be you know, you can't just look at
Speaker 1: his career and say, oh, well he stayed healthy, so
Speaker 1: he'll be healthy his entire NFL career. That's not really
Speaker 1: how it works. Yeah, he's avoided injury to this point,
Speaker 1: and that's great, and I hopefully he does uh and
Speaker 1: he continues to be healthy. But at one hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy one hundred and seventy five pounds that it's just tougher.
Speaker 1: It's tougher to stay healthy when you're you know, bigger
Speaker 1: guys are hitting you at uh, you know, much faster speeds. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: Jalen Waddle his continued maturation as a route runner and
Speaker 1: as being more than just an athlete. Um, he's his
Speaker 1: his ability to create those big plays, four plays at
Speaker 1: seventy five plus yards the last two years. That ability
Speaker 1: to create big plays is kind of what gave him
Speaker 1: the edge over Tavante Smith for me, but again, Tavante,
Speaker 1: I mean these guys are so close. I mean it's
Speaker 1: not like there's a gap between these two players. I
Speaker 1: think both are worthy of top ten consideration. Jeff, where
Speaker 1: do you have those top three guys ranked with Jase
Speaker 1: Smith and Waddle? And even if you wanted to throw
Speaker 1: Kyle Pits in there as well. Oh man, I'm excuse me.
Speaker 1: I'm a coward when it comes to all of those
Speaker 1: guys at the moment, because I think they're all monsters.
Speaker 1: But I did know. I came into today wanting to
Speaker 1: fight Dane and so I'm excited to have my first
Speaker 1: opening here because I hate. I hate the weight thing
Speaker 1: like it's been I've seen a study on it from
Speaker 1: football outsiders where people who are lighter at any given
Speaker 1: position group do not get hurt more than people who
Speaker 1: are heavier. The little guys don't get hurt more often
Speaker 1: than the big guys. It's never it's not borne out
Speaker 1: in an actual injuries and data. I think that's just
Speaker 1: something we look at him and we assume, like oop, man,
Speaker 1: it's really gonna hurt when that big guy hurt hits you.
Speaker 1: And it's like it's never been born out to be
Speaker 1: factual in the NFL. So like, wait, won't bother me
Speaker 1: unless it functionally affects you on the football field, So
Speaker 1: like the Smith. Wait. Thing doesn't bother me, but I
Speaker 1: go back and forth with all three of them. I'm
Speaker 1: just like, they're all studs. What do you want? Like?
Speaker 1: I think DeVante Smith is a Marvin Harrison type, the
Speaker 1: explosive route runner, the change of speed and direction. Jamar
Speaker 1: Chase will manhandle like people trying to press cover Jamar
Speaker 1: Chase and he just tosses them around and then catches
Speaker 1: the football on top of their head and moves on
Speaker 1: with his day and then waddle. I think is the
Speaker 1: best chance to be a Tyreek Hill type. He's not
Speaker 1: as thick, so he wouldn't be as explosive like after
Speaker 1: the catch. But he's the sort of guy that when
Speaker 1: you watch him, he just moves at a different speed
Speaker 1: than literally everyone else on the field. It's February, so
Speaker 1: I'm a coward and I don't have an order yet
Speaker 1: I want all of them. And Kyle Pitts, you just
Speaker 1: double up on your cowardice and you say he's a
Speaker 1: tight end, not a receiver, so you will have your
Speaker 1: order within around. I would put Pits and I feel
Speaker 1: bad about it, but I would put Pits behind the
Speaker 1: wide receivers just to cover my butt from a historical
Speaker 1: perspective of tight ends, the NFL has done a worse
Speaker 1: job of finding them in the first and a better
Speaker 1: job of finding them later. And at receiver it's the opposite.
Speaker 1: They do do a good job of finding them early
Speaker 1: and it's not hard later, but it's harder than tight end.
Speaker 1: So I think I would just use the positions to
Speaker 1: sort of break that tie, because it's just it's a
Speaker 1: bad history of picking tight ends that early. And I
Speaker 1: love Pits. So if the Cowboys took him at ten,
Speaker 1: would I be excited and fired up for it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Actually I would. I would like the pick. I'd be like, shoot, yeah,
Speaker 1: you think he's the best player, but I would be
Speaker 1: wary because of the history of it and the positional
Speaker 1: value in the league. Dang rebuttal. So you're saying if
Speaker 1: you list them as a receiver, he's a better chance
Speaker 1: of hitting. No, I'm saying, no, no, no, I'm saying
Speaker 1: he's a tight end. I'm saying if I had to
Speaker 1: order those four guys, I would order Kyle Pitt's fourth
Speaker 1: in my rankings, just because he does play tight end
Speaker 1: and he doesn't play wide receiver, and the tight end
Speaker 1: history is much much scarier than the wide receiver history
Speaker 1: when you're using a pick that high on that position.
Speaker 1: So I would you're not punishing receivers. Yeah, I'm punishing
Speaker 1: Pits for being a tight end and putting him behind
Speaker 1: the top three receivers because he's a tight end, gotcha. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I mean he is a tight end. He lines
Speaker 1: up in line, and even if he's a new age
Speaker 1: tight end, which you know he'll you know, look at
Speaker 1: Travis Kelsey and how the Chiefs use him. He's not
Speaker 1: you know a lot of times he's he's out wide,
Speaker 1: he's detached. So you know, I don't think that, you know,
Speaker 1: he has to be a guy that spends most of
Speaker 1: his time with his hand on the ground to be
Speaker 1: considered a tight end. That's just not how the NFL works.
Speaker 1: So he is absolutely a tight end. Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: my rebuttal to what you said about the weight, I mean,
Speaker 1: if you had two receivers that had the same exact speed,
Speaker 1: skill sets, everything, height, but one it was one hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy pounds, the other was two hundred pounds, which
Speaker 1: one are you taken? You're taking the two hundred pounder? Why?
Speaker 1: I Well, I think that's unrealistic though I'd to say
Speaker 1: that they're gonna be. Why is that realistic? I'm saying
Speaker 1: if they were, if there's a scenario where there's the
Speaker 1: same speed, same skill set, the same strengths weaknesses, they're
Speaker 1: the exact same player, except one's two hundred pounds one
Speaker 1: one hundred seventy pounds. Which one are you taking? Theoretically,
Speaker 1: you are going to take the two hundred pounder because
Speaker 1: there's just I mean, you can, you can cite the study,
Speaker 1: but I mean just using common sense of and how
Speaker 1: science works. Having better bulk on your body, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have a better chance of uh you know that that's
Speaker 1: body armor, You're gonna have a better chance to staying healthy.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just I don't know. To me, that's
Speaker 1: common sense. But I think that's the problem. I think
Speaker 1: so many things we perceive as common sense aren't actually
Speaker 1: common sense. It's just our initial reaction. Like Kyler Murray
Speaker 1: is much less likely to get hurt than Ben Roethlisberger.
Speaker 1: Ben Roethlisberger has quote body armor, he gets hurt. Andrew Luck,
Speaker 1: Carson Wentz, the big guys, those are the guys that
Speaker 1: are getting destroyed. The little guys get hurt. They get
Speaker 1: hit a lot more. I mean, and I think part
Speaker 1: of they gets hit more than Kyler oh yeah, oh
Speaker 1: yeah easily. And how many I honestly, how many hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy pound receivers are there in the league, you know,
Speaker 1: like I think, not size, well, that that's what, like
Speaker 1: the sample size isn't really there when you start comparing
Speaker 1: them to others. I mean, I don't know, I don't personally,
Speaker 1: I don't buy that for a second that uh, you know,
Speaker 1: weight does not matter that and part of it, part
Speaker 1: of it is is you know, there's a reason we
Speaker 1: don't see a lot of one hundred and seventy five
Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy pound receivers in the league or
Speaker 1: just players in the league period. And you know, part
Speaker 1: of it is because you know, it's hard to make
Speaker 1: it at that size. Um, And so I mean the
Speaker 1: guys that do make it are you know, tougher than heck.
Speaker 1: And that's part of it. So and again this is
Speaker 1: not to say I don't want this to you know,
Speaker 1: listeners to come away from this to saying they're thinking
Speaker 1: that I don't believe Dante Smith's an NFL player. I
Speaker 1: absolutely think he is. I would absolutely draft him in
Speaker 1: the top ten. But is there a little bit of
Speaker 1: concern there because of his of his size. Absolutely, I
Speaker 1: think I think you'd be crazy not to at least
Speaker 1: think about that, how his size might affect him at
Speaker 1: the next level, and you know, not just brushing it
Speaker 1: away and saying, oh, he'll be fine, he's he's just
Speaker 1: just as likely to get hurt as you know, a
Speaker 1: guy that's two hundred and fifteen pounds, or you know
Speaker 1: Calvin Johnson or any one of these guys. I do
Speaker 1: want to point out dating that my act argument would
Speaker 1: be technically that Calvin Johnson would be more likely to
Speaker 1: get hurt just by a little bit. But that's what
Speaker 1: evidence tells us at every position, not just receiver, the
Speaker 1: heavier guys get hurt a little more. But that's just data.
Speaker 1: You don't get to throw away data. Why would you
Speaker 1: do that because you think it's I don't I don't
Speaker 1: buy that for a second, because again, sample size matters here. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about how many receivers are there
Speaker 1: in the league one hundred and seventy pounds. I mean
Speaker 1: you're talking about a handful. There's not many and why
Speaker 1: are we talking about a handful because those guys don't
Speaker 1: make it. Yeah, but you can do the same thing
Speaker 1: with quarterback. How many sub six foot quarterbacks are there?
Speaker 1: And why didn't they make it? Because of opportunity? Because
Speaker 1: people perceive them that way, And as you stop perceiving
Speaker 1: them that way and people get opportunities, you're assuming more
Speaker 1: guys perceived. You're you're assuming that's perceived and it's not.
Speaker 1: They just they couldn't make it because of the size.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, is there a stigma against shorter, smaller quarterbacks. Sure, absolutely,
Speaker 1: that's a thing. But to say that that's the reason
Speaker 1: and not that they couldn't stay healthy or you know
Speaker 1: that they couldn't overcome the size, that's an assumption. And also, Jeff,
Speaker 1: you were talking about throwing away data. Isn't throwing away
Speaker 1: data exactly what you're doing when you're talking about a
Speaker 1: two hundred pound receiver versus one hundred and seventy five
Speaker 1: pound receiver. How you're throwing out the weight, which has
Speaker 1: been a piece of data that teams have relied on
Speaker 1: and scouts in front offices have relied on for the past. However,
Speaker 1: a hundred years or so, whenever it comes to evaluating prospects,
Speaker 1: and sure, yeah, there's data outside of that that kind
Speaker 1: of puts some context to it, but ultimately, the weight
Speaker 1: is a piece of data as well. You can't necessarily
Speaker 1: not take that into context whenever you're looking at prospects.
Speaker 1: I don't I guess, I don't understand what you mean. Like, yes,
Speaker 1: they weigh a certain amount, but what am I throwing
Speaker 1: out I'm telling you what that amount means really just
Speaker 1: saying positions and getting hurt. You're just saying it. You
Speaker 1: don't think it matters as much as it should. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think. Let me, I'll be
Speaker 1: very clear. I don't think your weight matters at all. Oh, okay,
Speaker 1: at all except for in the way that it affects
Speaker 1: your play on the field. Like in terms of he's
Speaker 1: going to get hurt because he's small. That's factually inaccurate,
Speaker 1: so that I don't believe in any way. I'm not
Speaker 1: scared off by your weight unless your weight means you
Speaker 1: can't get off the line of scrimmage, you get bullied,
Speaker 1: you get thrown off the sideline. If your weight affects
Speaker 1: you on your tape, then sure, we can talk about, well,
Speaker 1: he's just not heavy enough, like he's getting moved around,
Speaker 1: he's getting punked, that's one thing. But in terms of
Speaker 1: he's going to get hurt because he's small, it's just
Speaker 1: it's not factually accurate. So I can't go there. Again.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's factually accurate because a lot of
Speaker 1: those guys don't make it to the NFL because they
Speaker 1: it's just hard. For those guys, it's harder. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, you can say that the guys that are
Speaker 1: one hundred seventy pounds that have made it to the
Speaker 1: NFL have stayed healthy, that's great, But what about all
Speaker 1: the one hundred seventy pounds that didn't make it that far.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that you have to, you know,
Speaker 1: think about that as well. So, uh, this I don't
Speaker 1: buy for a second that this is a factually Uh
Speaker 1: that's a factual take. It's this. It's a pure, pure opinion,
Speaker 1: and you know, we have different opinions on that. I'm
Speaker 1: interested to hear what Katie has to think on this
Speaker 1: one as well. Are you leaning toward a side, because
Speaker 1: I think if I'm leaning toward a side, I want
Speaker 1: to lean toward the percentages that really where the weight lies.
Speaker 1: And I think that's mostly toward the bigger players, or
Speaker 1: at least the ones that Dane's kind of talking about.
Speaker 1: But Katie, are you leaning either way? Well, real quick,
Speaker 1: notable light players just for the fun of it, Hollywood
Speaker 1: Brown one sixty six, but also Snoop Menace one seventy one. Yea,
Speaker 1: we can, we can. We can hand pick these guys,
Speaker 1: and it didn't have a lot of fun with it.
Speaker 1: But what I would say is, and I don't I
Speaker 1: think I'm more of a peacemaker tap of guy. I
Speaker 1: don't think I'm supporting anyone's argument here. One thing that
Speaker 1: I see, and this is one reason I have DeVante
Speaker 1: Smith a little higher. And again I think we all
Speaker 1: love these three guys. I have DeVante Smith a little higher.
Speaker 1: DeVante Smith, you see him a little more going over
Speaker 1: the middle and doing the dirty work. And you know,
Speaker 1: Waddle might have gotten a little more of those opportunities
Speaker 1: if he had gotten to play, because he had getten hurt.
Speaker 1: And obviously last year Rugs and Judy were getting a
Speaker 1: lot of the volume. But seeing Davante Smith go over
Speaker 1: the middle and move the chains and things like that,
Speaker 1: that makes me go, Okay, you can do this, and
Speaker 1: I really like that. I I like the toughness there.
Speaker 1: That's that's one of the big aspects that I have on.
Speaker 1: Is one of the notes I've put on here is
Speaker 1: I think he's tough along with the long arms. But
Speaker 1: you know he's one seventy two, waddles one eighty two.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pretend they're both one seventy seven. I like
Speaker 1: Jamar Chase a lot. Let's let's just have fun. But
Speaker 1: here's the thing, Dan, you have top three. I cut
Speaker 1: it off because I'm gonna used to see where that
Speaker 1: Jeff's earlier coward. I wanted to put Cadarius Tony in
Speaker 1: the first round. He's my wide receiver. Four. I think
Speaker 1: he was your wide receiver for as well. I wanted
Speaker 1: to put him in the first round. And then and
Speaker 1: maybe I'm a jerk for this, and then the first
Speaker 1: day of Senior Bowl he goes out and his heads
Speaker 1: and the clouds and he drops the ball about ninety times,
Speaker 1: and then I went, Nope, I can't do it. I
Speaker 1: can't do it. And I'm a terrible person for that,
Speaker 1: and I'll admit that. But he's my top wide receiver
Speaker 1: in the second round in wide receiver four. But I
Speaker 1: just I love the player so much, but I was
Speaker 1: so annoyed by that the wide open drops, I was
Speaker 1: pretty annoyed by that. He's he's got a lot of
Speaker 1: focused right. He wants to make a play. He's so
Speaker 1: eager to make a play that he will start to
Speaker 1: make his moves before he secures the catch. There's no
Speaker 1: doubt that's that's part of what he needs to clean up.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's he's a human joystick. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: he's crazy. Some of these movements that he can make,
Speaker 1: The elusiveness he makes the most athletic defenders look awkward
Speaker 1: in their pursuit, and it's just really really unique. So
Speaker 1: now he's he's got some character stuff too that teams
Speaker 1: are you know, on the fence about. So you know,
Speaker 1: the interview process is gonna be big for him. But
Speaker 1: you know he's going to be somewhere in that late
Speaker 1: one early two mix. He could be an interesting, interesting
Speaker 1: chess piece for a team that's looking for a versa
Speaker 1: little receiver that can be a creative igniter. A couple
Speaker 1: other these these smaller slot guys or I guess they
Speaker 1: could play in the slot that are in this draft
Speaker 1: class that to keep an eye on. I mean, we
Speaker 1: talked about DeVante Smith, but you also have Rondel Moore
Speaker 1: out of Purdue, Jalen Darden, who, of course I'm really
Speaker 1: high on out of North Texas, but yes, there's a
Speaker 1: North Texas connection there. You go further down the list
Speaker 1: two to at Well from Louisville. I mean, he's one
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five pounds five nine So, I mean
Speaker 1: there are a guy like this all over the draft board,
Speaker 1: and there are in any draft. And like Dane said,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit harder for some of these guys
Speaker 1: to make it a longer career or at least a
Speaker 1: notable career in the NFL, a little bit more so
Speaker 1: than others. So we'll keep an eye on some of
Speaker 1: those guys as we continue to break down these wide receivers.
Speaker 1: But when we come back here on the Draft show,
Speaker 1: we've got some twitter on the twenty questions that we
Speaker 1: have to hit up. The first one we're gonna hit
Speaker 1: does the play of Connor McGovern and Tyler Beatish turn
Speaker 1: the Cowboys away from drafting an interior offensive Lindlan we
Speaker 1: would discuss it next here on the Draft Show. Sometimes
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Speaker 1: Is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to the Draft Show Dallas Cowboys dot Com, presented by
Speaker 1: Miller Light. As always, it's time now to go into
Speaker 1: some Twitter on the twenty. I see Chris Beam has
Speaker 1: gotten up from his chair, So we're gonna go ahead
Speaker 1: and push on through to Twitter on the twenty. There
Speaker 1: are plenty questions to get to, Oh there it is, Hey,
Speaker 1: it was in there. It was there in the delay,
Speaker 1: but it was there. Chris Beam has always killed Collins Mutach.
Speaker 1: So now that we've gotten into Twitter on the twenty
Speaker 1: and we've had it all taken care of. We've got
Speaker 1: one question this from our guy Max. He said, does
Speaker 1: the way that Connor McGovern and Tyler Beotish played last
Speaker 1: season steer you away from drafting an interior offensive lineman?
Speaker 1: Haven't heard much on the evaluation on McGovern's play. We'll
Speaker 1: start things off with Jeff on this one. I thought
Speaker 1: McGovern when he played was solid, especially for a rookie,
Speaker 1: and I thought Beotish was kind of the same thing.
Speaker 1: Where if you told me that one of one or
Speaker 1: both of those guys had to start for your team
Speaker 1: next year, I'd say, Okay, that's that's that's all right,
Speaker 1: that's not bad. So I don't think it's a priority
Speaker 1: by any means, especially because you also have Connor Williams
Speaker 1: and Zach Martin. So I think you're okay there. But
Speaker 1: it's a lot like Donovan Wilson, Right, everybody loves Donovan
Speaker 1: Wilson's he played well, he forced turnovers. If you had
Speaker 1: a chance and your best player available was a box
Speaker 1: safety who you thought could force turnovers and be a
Speaker 1: great tackler, Let's say you were going to play Joka
Speaker 1: from Notre Dame there upgrade it. Like, just because something's
Speaker 1: okay doesn't mean that I'm not going to upgrade it.
Speaker 1: So if you have the right opportunity, sure try to
Speaker 1: upgrade that. But I don't think it's a need. If
Speaker 1: you had a best available player that you felt great about,
Speaker 1: you have a second round grade sitting there in the
Speaker 1: fourth that plays guard, I don't mind picking him, but no,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's I don't think it's a priority.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a need. Kay, Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: say the same thing. I don't. To me, I think
Speaker 1: you could get through now. It will see what they do.
Speaker 1: I would assume Joe Looney's not back again, but you know,
Speaker 1: maybe they do fork over a little bit of money
Speaker 1: for him. It wouldn't cost much. So yeah, man, I don't.
Speaker 1: To me, it's like a Day three type of thing. Um,
Speaker 1: And maybe there's someone you like, But I'm looking for
Speaker 1: more depth, and quite frankly, I'm more worried about the
Speaker 1: tackle position than I am the interior offensive line position.
Speaker 1: I mean, McGovern needs to play, Connor Williams needs to play.
Speaker 1: Those guys need to be your right and left guards,
Speaker 1: be honest. Needs to be your center and that needs
Speaker 1: to be good enough. Zach Martin right guard? Oh okay, okay,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, God? What am I thinking? Was that? Think?
Speaker 1: What happening Zach Martin? I was thinking about moving Zach
Speaker 1: happen tackle? Okay, I got oh, I think I'm assuming.
Speaker 1: I think I'm assuming Tyran's not gonna be there and
Speaker 1: I'm already moving people. Who Wow, I had a brain fart.
Speaker 1: So guess what. I'm not drafting an offensive linement unless
Speaker 1: I have to. Day. You know, this offensive line group
Speaker 1: is h it's a pretty pretty deep group, and so
Speaker 1: I mean I think you keep your options open. You know, football,
Speaker 1: it's a game of attrition and you just don't Oh,
Speaker 1: those needs are going to be there. So, um, you know,
Speaker 1: if the it's I just hope they keep their their open,
Speaker 1: their mind open to h if one of these guys
Speaker 1: would fall, if you know they they really like a
Speaker 1: Robert Hainsey from Notre Dame. You know, a guy who
Speaker 1: played right tackle uh in college for the Irish, but
Speaker 1: he projects at guard center. Uh. You know, if if
Speaker 1: you're sitting there in the fourth round and he's there,
Speaker 1: I'd love to see a pick like that. Um. So
Speaker 1: you know, I think that when you look at this
Speaker 1: class and some of the guards or tackles that could
Speaker 1: be available at early day three, some of them you
Speaker 1: can make an easy case for. It's funny because you
Speaker 1: look at the offensive line, and of course the tackle
Speaker 1: spot is ultimately the biggest worry, like Katie was saying,
Speaker 1: but I don't think you could necessarily rule out the
Speaker 1: interior as a big worry as well, because you said
Speaker 1: in Katie, you said, assuming Joe Looney comes back, I
Speaker 1: don't think that needs to be an assumption. I think
Speaker 1: there's a very high chance that he ends up coming back.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm not making a prediction that
Speaker 1: he does, but I think it's probably a more than
Speaker 1: fifty fifty shot that he is back in a Cowboys uniform,
Speaker 1: just because of how cheap he may be in because
Speaker 1: of where the money's going to be allocated to try
Speaker 1: and get these guys on the roster, so sticking with
Speaker 1: some of those guys who played in the past may
Speaker 1: be there as well. Not saying he's going to be
Speaker 1: a starter either, because once again, Tyler Biotis and Connor
Speaker 1: mcgover need that playing time. But it's still something you
Speaker 1: need to look at. But I don't think it is
Speaker 1: a need whenever it comes to interior offensive line, but
Speaker 1: it's something that you need to look for, at least
Speaker 1: because if you're in the second or third day of
Speaker 1: this draft, then all of a sudden you look around
Speaker 1: and there's a really, really good interior offensive lineman that
Speaker 1: you have high on your board. I wouldn't be surprised
Speaker 1: if the Cowboys pickt just to have some of that
Speaker 1: depth available at some point down the line. Next question
Speaker 1: comes from Jeremy. It's kind of along the same lines,
Speaker 1: but not necessarily specific to the offensive line. He said
Speaker 1: what position groups might be better suited to be addressed
Speaker 1: in Cowboys free agency rather than the draft. Whether this
Speaker 1: is because of a lack of talent depth in the
Speaker 1: draft or particularly strong at a free agent class. Katie,
Speaker 1: what you got on that one? Well? Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: if Joe Looney wants to sign for lack two million dollars,
Speaker 1: I guess I guess we could do that. Kind of
Speaker 1: on the same topic, can I thought a name out
Speaker 1: there real quick, too? Dan? What do you think about
Speaker 1: Royce Newman from Old miss Because he can play pretty
Speaker 1: much everywhere on the offensive line, and I'm more interested
Speaker 1: in guys like that, to be honest. Yeah, And that's
Speaker 1: that's his value is the versatility because he can play.
Speaker 1: He's got four position versatility. So that's that's the appeal
Speaker 1: of the guy like that. And that's what I'm talking
Speaker 1: about when you you know, early day three, because that's
Speaker 1: when Royce Newman's gonna go a couple of these other guys.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's it's always interesting when you have
Speaker 1: a free agency before the draft, um and you try
Speaker 1: to piece together what you want to do in free agency,
Speaker 1: but then also have your eye on the draft in
Speaker 1: terms of which positions are stronger, where do you have
Speaker 1: a better chance of finding or answering a need. You know,
Speaker 1: I think in a perfect world, you fill all your
Speaker 1: needs in free agency or at least, you know, patch
Speaker 1: the holes in that way you have freedom to kind
Speaker 1: of do what you want on draft weekend. So you know,
Speaker 1: that's what I think. That's what a lot of the
Speaker 1: smart teams do. And you know, I know it's not
Speaker 1: that easy when there's a cap involved, but if somehow
Speaker 1: they can find a way to patch their holes on
Speaker 1: the roster so you can enter the draft with you know,
Speaker 1: the freedom to let the board fall into them. That's
Speaker 1: the best way to attack it, Jeff, And safety might
Speaker 1: line up is the position that has the most starting
Speaker 1: quality guys where you could do that, because I agree
Speaker 1: with Day, like the Cowboys, what they need to do
Speaker 1: is they need to sign a corner, they need to
Speaker 1: send a safety, they need to sign a defensive tackle.
Speaker 1: They need to do all that before the draft so
Speaker 1: that you're not pitching hold into picking something. And that's
Speaker 1: actually also my problem with trying to get a linebacker
Speaker 1: on this team early in the draft, because I think
Speaker 1: you want to try to fill holes before the draft,
Speaker 1: not create holes where then you're forced to do something.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what they'd have to do if
Speaker 1: they moved on from a certain player, who I'd be
Speaker 1: fine with them moving on from, but still, why are
Speaker 1: you just creating holes for no reason? So yeah, I
Speaker 1: think safety maybe the one that's most likely because there's
Speaker 1: a lot of names out there that are starting caliber
Speaker 1: guys that you could sign in free agency and kind
Speaker 1: of not have that need, but you don't want to
Speaker 1: stop from finding long term, cheap solutions in the draft.
Speaker 1: So your job is to sign a safety, a corner,
Speaker 1: a d tackle and get ready to draft. But if
Speaker 1: they wanted to spend big on one to where you go,
Speaker 1: all right, scratch that off the need list, I think
Speaker 1: it would potentially be free safety. I think that's where
Speaker 1: I was thinking too. I think free safety is something
Speaker 1: that you can potentially look at. But there's also a
Speaker 1: lot of free safeties I think in this draft that
Speaker 1: are better than what the Cowboys have had in the past.
Speaker 1: So either way, there's a good chance to upgrade that
Speaker 1: position this year, even if it is a second or
Speaker 1: third round prospect, if the Cowboys want to draft that
Speaker 1: high and use that kind of capital on a safety
Speaker 1: that's still yet to be seen either. This is from Sebastian.
Speaker 1: He says Dallas desperately needs to add speed on defense.
Speaker 1: We've talked about that on this show previously. Who are
Speaker 1: some of the more solid and speedy prospects that Dallas
Speaker 1: could target in the middle rounds at both linebacker and
Speaker 1: then of course defensive back in the secondary. There, Dane,
Speaker 1: So you say we're looking for speed, If that's our focus,
Speaker 1: it's just speed. Okay, Let's look a corner. Robert Rochelle
Speaker 1: from Central Arkansas. He's one of the fastest players in
Speaker 1: his draft. He's going to be somewhere third or fourth round.
Speaker 1: I think if you're looking for pure speed, that makes
Speaker 1: sense maybe later on in the draft. Carry Vincent Corner
Speaker 1: of LSU, big time track guy high school. In college,
Speaker 1: he's a I graded him as a backup nickel, but
Speaker 1: you know, I think that he is still a draftable player.
Speaker 1: Then we look at linebacker. Uh, if we're looking at speed,
Speaker 1: at linebacker Cameron mcgroan at A Michigan. He's there's some
Speaker 1: medical stuff that teams need to figure out. But again,
Speaker 1: if we're just focusing on speed, fourth or fifth round.
Speaker 1: H mcgron can fly. He's a little lighter than you
Speaker 1: want at the linebacker position, but he can absolutely move.
Speaker 1: So based off of just speed, those are three names
Speaker 1: in the day three territory that would make some sense. Jeff,
Speaker 1: do you have any guys that you've been looking at?
Speaker 1: Did this need to be day three? Was that the rule?
Speaker 1: It's he asked day two, day three, But we could
Speaker 1: do any of them. I'm okay with anybody. Well, day two.
Speaker 1: I think if you're looking for speed, you can also
Speaker 1: talk about the both the Georgia Corner, both of them
Speaker 1: can absolutely run. They're both state champion one hundred and
Speaker 1: two hundred meter guys. So Eric Stokes Tyson Campbell linebacker,
Speaker 1: I would throw in. I don't have an estimated forty time,
Speaker 1: but just watching him run, I'm throwing Baron Browning, Ohio
Speaker 1: State has a second or third round guy. I think
Speaker 1: he can really scoot. So those are guys top of
Speaker 1: my head that are second, third ish round guys that
Speaker 1: can move. Says here that Baron Browning four or five
Speaker 1: six potential forty is what I'm looking at right here,
Speaker 1: So I mean pretty decently quick for a linebacker. I
Speaker 1: guess right up in that that realm Katie. Any guys
Speaker 1: that stick out, I don't know if for speed guy,
Speaker 1: but I know he can run at his play speeds. Okay,
Speaker 1: is Jabril Cox the LSU linebacker? I like him a
Speaker 1: little bit. I mean, look, the answer is Jeremiah Wisu Coromoa.
Speaker 1: That's fast. That's what we want. You know, that's kind
Speaker 1: of that you can be talking about him, so that
Speaker 1: there's your answer. Um, Laca Parsons is fast, Katie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he is right. That's good. Someone else can have him.
Speaker 1: Get ready, buddy, he's my prediction. Get ready you Maybe
Speaker 1: you're right. Who's my prediction? Another another corner who can
Speaker 1: flat out run, Benjamin saints Jus at Minnesota. He's six
Speaker 1: three and he's gonna run really well. So I don't
Speaker 1: I question his instinct. I question he's had a little
Speaker 1: bit of body stiffness. He'll he'll give up separation. But
Speaker 1: if you just ask him to, hey, that guy, go
Speaker 1: cover him, he can do it because he can open
Speaker 1: up and run. So saints Jus is an interesting name
Speaker 1: on day three. That's another good one. I like that
Speaker 1: name a lot. Jason Pruitt has two Dane Brugler's specials
Speaker 1: on this one. How about this? So the first one
Speaker 1: is are there any senior FCS prospect who could go
Speaker 1: from playing a strong spring season and be drafted in April.
Speaker 1: We'll start with that one. Well, yeah, and it's such
Speaker 1: it's an interesting dynamic this year because we have, first
Speaker 1: of all, a spring season four college teams at the
Speaker 1: FCS level, which is obviously not the norm um. And
Speaker 1: they're also the opportunity for some of these players if
Speaker 1: they want to bolt after the years. For some of
Speaker 1: these guys, you know, towards the end of the towards
Speaker 1: the end of the year. If they want a bolt
Speaker 1: and enter the draft, they're able to do that. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that the one name that comes
Speaker 1: to mind immediately is the North Carolina A and T
Speaker 1: running back Jamaine Martin. Uh. He made a big announcement
Speaker 1: when he had said he was going to play in
Speaker 1: the spring, so it wouldn't surprise me if he still
Speaker 1: decides to go go pro. We'll see. Um he's five
Speaker 1: ten to ten around there, good speed. Uh, he can
Speaker 1: make guys miss in the hole. I think he is
Speaker 1: a draftable player if he does. Declares, Martin would definitely
Speaker 1: be a name to keep an eye on. Tarikko and
Speaker 1: turned that place into a factory. Huh. Yeah. Well, this kid,
Speaker 1: he's a Coastal Carolina transfer, got into got into some
Speaker 1: trouble there, so he transferred down and kind of reinvented himself.
Speaker 1: So he's a good player. The second part of this
Speaker 1: question was who were the high floor, high ceiling wide
Speaker 1: receiver prospects outside of his top twenty who we aren't
Speaker 1: talking about just yet. Okay, high you're asking a lot
Speaker 1: for if you want a high floor and a high ceiling,
Speaker 1: and you went on the fourth and fifth round. Yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly right. That's as high of a floor as you
Speaker 1: can potentially are you Are you asking for like two
Speaker 1: like a high floor player and a high ceiling player
Speaker 1: or that guy, because otherwise he's unfair. There's no one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's not Yeah, there's not a thing. Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: probably split him up. I mean like a high ceiling
Speaker 1: guy that is like a day three player that maybe
Speaker 1: doesn't get a lot of loud to marry on Terry
Speaker 1: from Florida State, Yeah, I means four two ten. He
Speaker 1: watched some of his tape and it's just like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: this guy on top fifty guy. Um, but you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff going on there. He's he's
Speaker 1: not consistent at all. Um. Off the field, he's got
Speaker 1: himself to clean up. So you know, I don't he's
Speaker 1: a tough guy to project. But in terms of ceiling, yeah,
Speaker 1: the ceilings absolutely there. Um high out right. He played
Speaker 1: part of the year and then he opted out four
Speaker 1: at the end of the year. Okay, um what high
Speaker 1: go ahead? Katie? Well has it Kato two names out
Speaker 1: there that we're not we're top twenty. And maybe I'm
Speaker 1: just saying that because there are two guys that I've
Speaker 1: watched um Mark West Stevenson Houston just a speed guy,
Speaker 1: but you know he's a fear body catcher, but he
Speaker 1: can fly. And then another guy who can fly is
Speaker 1: Auburn Anthony Schwarten. Schwartz. Yeah, I struggled so much with
Speaker 1: him because he h he might be the fastest human,
Speaker 1: uh like in this country, but he is that type
Speaker 1: of speed. Um, you know, he is that that fast.
Speaker 1: He's a big time track guy. He said, all types
Speaker 1: of records in high school and one hundred meters, but
Speaker 1: he has just he has he has no instincts on
Speaker 1: the football field, and it's just a lot of all
Speaker 1: or nothing plays on his tape. Like you know, he
Speaker 1: had like one hundred and seventeen catches. I want to
Speaker 1: say in three years at Auburn, I had tho one
Speaker 1: hundred and seventeen. Only nine point six percent went over
Speaker 1: twenty five yards. So, you know, for a guy who's
Speaker 1: his specialty is speed, you know, not hands, we'll have
Speaker 1: a lot of drops. Um for a guy that's it's
Speaker 1: all about speed, there just weren't many big plays on
Speaker 1: his tape. So you know, part of that is the
Speaker 1: passing offense and the quarterback play and you know, just
Speaker 1: the way Auburn did things. But I really struggled with
Speaker 1: him because he's just not an instinctive player. Uh yet,
Speaker 1: now can he get there? Can he you know, be
Speaker 1: type some type of home run threat? Maybe, because again
Speaker 1: he's this speed is ridiculous. But where you draft a
Speaker 1: guy like that? I don't know. I mean he he
Speaker 1: just missed the cut for me. Uh you know, I
Speaker 1: when I cut it off. The guys that just missed
Speaker 1: my top twenty were Frank Darby at Arizona State, Schwartz
Speaker 1: out of Auburn, Cornell, Pal Clemson, Stevenson Houston. So uh,
Speaker 1: those types of guys. Um. I wanted to answer the
Speaker 1: other question, the high floor player. UM, I think a
Speaker 1: high floor Day three guy Trevon Grimes out of Florida. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, not a great separator, but uh, you know
Speaker 1: a guy that can go up snare the football and
Speaker 1: you know, just he's gonna be a really solid, you know,
Speaker 1: fourth or fifth receiver and then it woul't surprise me
Speaker 1: at all if he ends up being uh you know,
Speaker 1: getting some starting reps and getting more playing time. He
Speaker 1: just he's a high floor guy. Was he a guy
Speaker 1: at the Senior Bowl that kind of stuck out to you?
Speaker 1: Is that that solid high floor type of prospects. Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: him and another guy that did his Does Fitzpatrick out
Speaker 1: of Louisville. You know, we talked. I had a lot
Speaker 1: about two two out well. His teammate who another one
Speaker 1: of those guys who's tiny but he can he can
Speaker 1: really run. Does Fitzpatrick. He might not be elite in anything,
Speaker 1: but he's pretty good across the board, Like its just
Speaker 1: hard to find weaknesses in his game. So Does Fitzpatrick's
Speaker 1: a good player who not gonna get drafted probably until
Speaker 1: day three, but I think he's a high four player,
Speaker 1: can't real quick. I want to weigh in on this
Speaker 1: Schwartz thing again because there's a play in a game,
Speaker 1: and granted, bow Knicks is not like the greatest distributor
Speaker 1: of the football, and I'm not crazy about either of
Speaker 1: the Opera wide receivers, but there's a play in a
Speaker 1: game where he's running a wheel route and it's clearly
Speaker 1: like a design play where he's the number one option.
Speaker 1: It's very clear, and the ball is thrown to his
Speaker 1: inside shoulder and he's looking out of bounds towards the sideline,
Speaker 1: and I was like, dude, what are you looking at? Man?
Speaker 1: It's like you thought the football was going to be
Speaker 1: over here at the water cooler, Like, dude, the guy
Speaker 1: like and it wasn't like a great throw by bow knicks,
Speaker 1: not many r but like the ball is thrown like
Speaker 1: he was trying to hit him on his inside shoulder
Speaker 1: and he's looking out towards the sideline. It was amazing.
Speaker 1: I was just like, what's he doing? Did you ever
Speaker 1: figure out what he was looking at? I never found out?
Speaker 1: Like maybe lead Corso Corso? Yeah, that's interesting. Hey, I
Speaker 1: mean it happens sometimes. Lee Corso's allegedd for a reason.
Speaker 1: How about that. Let's go ahead and take our second break.
Speaker 1: When we come back, I want to talk about some
Speaker 1: defensive line guys and maybe get some thoughts on Jeff's
Speaker 1: hate for Gregory Rousseau and maybe some of these other
Speaker 1: guys that we've had some trouble with on the defensive
Speaker 1: line when we returned here on the Draft Show presented
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Speaker 1: Is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Back here
Speaker 1: for the final segment of the Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: Draft Show, presented by Miller Light, Kyle Yeoman's Kevin Kat Turner,
Speaker 1: Dame Brugler in the Great Mister Captain Trade Down, Jeff
Speaker 1: Cavanaugh as always, and Captain trade down. You know, Jeff,
Speaker 1: you did put that in our WebEx that we're using
Speaker 1: to communicate virtually at the moment. Is Captain trade Down
Speaker 1: riding again? Because I haven't gotten an update over the
Speaker 1: last couple weeks. Oh, I think he consistently is trying
Speaker 1: to get on the horse. But I gotta tell you
Speaker 1: he has second and third thoughts all the time. Because
Speaker 1: some people hate draft simulators, like my buddy Votch absolutely
Speaker 1: despises draft simulators. I have done probably six hundred thousand
Speaker 1: draft simulations for this year on my YouTube page. So like,
Speaker 1: will I love trade down until you trade down and
Speaker 1: all the guys you thought you were trading down for
Speaker 1: are gone? And then Captain trade down is an idiot?
Speaker 1: So am I Captain trade down? Yes? All the way
Speaker 1: to like fifteen, and that's about as far as I
Speaker 1: want to go, because then jac Horne's gone and somebody
Speaker 1: takes Barmore and you're like, okay, so now the corners
Speaker 1: are gone, Barmore's gone, Slater and Sewel are gone, and
Speaker 1: you're going, what in the hell did I t down for?
Speaker 1: So Captain trade doown does live? But he lives very tepidly.
Speaker 1: He stall Gregory Russo sitting there for you, Yeah, grew
Speaker 1: up a thing. I would take Gregory Rousseau right there
Speaker 1: at the top of the fourth round. Okay, top of
Speaker 1: the fourth round. Interesting for Gregory Rousseau is a bad player, Okay.
Speaker 1: And I know we've talked about this before, but we
Speaker 1: talked about it with Bucky Brooks the other day, and
Speaker 1: I want to get you and Bucky on the same
Speaker 1: show at some point and then we can really get
Speaker 1: into this. But you have strong thoughts about Gregory Rousseau,
Speaker 1: but I want to kind of take it generally into
Speaker 1: the defensive line because it's not a strong defensive tackle class.
Speaker 1: If Christian Barbour is not there, should you have trade back?
Speaker 1: If you're the Dallas Cowboys, then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you're kind of dry from a defensive line standpoint. But
Speaker 1: is there anybody else to get you excited? Or is
Speaker 1: everybody kind of overhyped? Is that why Gregory Russo's in
Speaker 1: that conversation. I don't, honestly, I mean, I'm I'm being
Speaker 1: letely honest here. I don't know why he would be
Speaker 1: in the conversation. There's nothing I've seen from him that
Speaker 1: puts him in a conversation in the first round. So
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I get it. If you want
Speaker 1: to talk about Zizagu Larry, I get it. If you
Speaker 1: want to talk about Jayalen Phillips or Quitty Pay, I
Speaker 1: get it. If you want to talk about Carlos Basham.
Speaker 1: I like Peyton Turner at Houston and Joseph Osa and
Speaker 1: Ronnie Perkins. I like a lot of people before I
Speaker 1: get to Gregory Rousseau. So I don't know what puts
Speaker 1: him in the conversation other than he's tall and long. Dang,
Speaker 1: what puts him in the conversation. I don't necessarily disagree
Speaker 1: with what a lot of jeff is saying because I'm not.
Speaker 1: I don't love Gregor Rousseau. I am intrigued by him
Speaker 1: as a prospect, but I do not like him as
Speaker 1: a player right now. Maybe I'll phrase it that way.
Speaker 1: You know, he's a faith based projection, That's what he is.
Speaker 1: He's still very much learning how to play the position,
Speaker 1: how to make it in fact impact from snap to snap.
Speaker 1: His I like his instincts. I think he has some
Speaker 1: natural instincts to him, and I like his traits. He's long,
Speaker 1: he's got a frame that you can mold, and you
Speaker 1: know he's a he has some athleticism to him, So,
Speaker 1: you know, can he evolve into a stylistically speaking, a
Speaker 1: Chandler Jones type, you know, just not Chaneley Jones, but
Speaker 1: that style of Russia? Can't he evolve into that in
Speaker 1: a couple of years. Yeah, I think that's that it
Speaker 1: gets possible. But again that's a faith based projection. You
Speaker 1: are banking on a guy that hasn't necessarily shown a
Speaker 1: lot of what you're hoping to see. He hasn't shown
Speaker 1: it up to this point, so he needs to work
Speaker 1: on it. So um, you know, it's it's tough here, Jeff,
Speaker 1: let me throw this at you. Who would you rather
Speaker 1: have Jason Oway, who is a you know, verified free
Speaker 1: but zero sacks last year, or Gregor Rousseau who had
Speaker 1: all the production in the world last time he was
Speaker 1: on the field, but you know, obviously still figuring out
Speaker 1: how to play the position, and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of projection involved. So which which one of
Speaker 1: those two players would you be more confident about hitting
Speaker 1: at the next level. I think I would take o way,
Speaker 1: which is wild. I would take the zero SAT guy
Speaker 1: over the fifteen and a half SAT guy because I think,
Speaker 1: to me, his awesome, awesome athleticism is what I would
Speaker 1: want to give to my coaching staff as opposed to
Speaker 1: Rousseau's body, right, because that's what we're comparing, is athleticism
Speaker 1: versus body type. Sure, I would go away, now I would.
Speaker 1: I mean, I have Oa ranked higher than Rousseau just
Speaker 1: so I agree. I have Owa three spots higher than
Speaker 1: Rousseau at the moment as well. But I mean, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of guys in that conversation, But is
Speaker 1: it really in Katie. I want your thought on this
Speaker 1: as well. But they're not a not even a home run.
Speaker 1: I know there's no home run. There's no Chase Young
Speaker 1: in this draft. But where does this draft of edge
Speaker 1: rushers and even defensive tackles rank and compared to classes
Speaker 1: in the past. Because the more I go down the list,
Speaker 1: the more I don't like it compared to maybe even
Speaker 1: the classes of twenty twenty, twenty nineteen and so on
Speaker 1: and so forth. Yeah, it's just kind of identify those
Speaker 1: drafts where a Miles Garrett and a Chase Young and
Speaker 1: a Bosa brother didn't go in the top few picks
Speaker 1: like I remember, and I this is tough because I
Speaker 1: don't have the years. It's gonna be tough for me.
Speaker 1: But I remember the Derek Barnett year and there might
Speaker 1: have been someone great that went ahead of him, but
Speaker 1: Derek Barnett and people were talking about him. Alts Garrett
Speaker 1: was in that draft. Yeah, so Miles Garrett was the first,
Speaker 1: but Derek Barnett was there, and I was going, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure why everyone likes Derek Barnett is the second
Speaker 1: defensive end of the draft. And I just didn't. I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't love Derek Barnett and what he went fourteen
Speaker 1: or fifteen or seventeen or whatever kind of in that mix.
Speaker 1: I used to have photographic memory, Kyle, but I'm old now.
Speaker 1: Us once you cross that threshold of thirty, the sharpness
Speaker 1: goes away. So like to me, I mean, we've we've
Speaker 1: seen we've seen drafts like that, and that's where I
Speaker 1: think it's more important to figure out guys that maybe
Speaker 1: you're unsure of. Like, for instance, I've got a guy
Speaker 1: who I like a little bit. I think he's potentially
Speaker 1: a top one hundred guy, but every time I go
Speaker 1: back and watch him I still end up with the
Speaker 1: hands up shoulder shrug emoji. It's Washington's Joe Trying. I mean,
Speaker 1: he is a guy who's been very difficult for me
Speaker 1: because I don't fully know what he is. But I
Speaker 1: like his body, I like his effort. I like a
Speaker 1: lot of his tape. I think like him. I'm trying
Speaker 1: hard to like him, Jeff, I'm trying hard. I think
Speaker 1: he can set the edge sometimes, you know, like I think.
Speaker 1: I think he's not a super bendy guy. There are
Speaker 1: times when he drives me insane because he will beat
Speaker 1: the offensive tackle, but instead of turning bending that thing off,
Speaker 1: he is flying ten yards up the field, like, dude,
Speaker 1: the quarterback's not gonna drop back fifteen yards. As Jeff
Speaker 1: said with the pun of the Day, brought to you
Speaker 1: by Miller Lite. I'm trying to like him, but I
Speaker 1: don't know. So if you guys have seen him, let
Speaker 1: me know. Yeah. I do like Joe Trying. He's been
Speaker 1: a top fifty guy for me since the summer, and
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know that I love him as
Speaker 1: like a top twenty five, top thirty guy, but I
Speaker 1: like him somewhere in that thirty to fifty range. You know,
Speaker 1: he's just a a little bit of work in progress,
Speaker 1: there's no doubt, but I think he has the tools
Speaker 1: where you know, he just you streamlined those pass rush
Speaker 1: skills a little bit. You can get him some more,
Speaker 1: some more coaching, and you know, he reminds me a
Speaker 1: lot of is Marcus ut say just what you can
Speaker 1: do up m H. So as long as you know
Speaker 1: gets In Turner as the eighth the eighth pass rusher
Speaker 1: in this draft, I mean that's that's pretty good. If
Speaker 1: you can get Ronnie Perkins as the ninth or tenth
Speaker 1: guy drafted, that's great. Even in the Day three when
Speaker 1: you've got guys like you know, Quincy Roche, Like Quincy
Speaker 1: Roche is a guy that you know I saw popping
Speaker 1: up in first round mocksun like I just don't see it.
Speaker 1: But you know that's because you know, the NFL sees
Speaker 1: them more as a third or fourth round or not
Speaker 1: a first rounder. So if I can get him early
Speaker 1: in the fourth, then awesome. Chauncey Golston from Iowa. He
Speaker 1: might not be one of the top fifteen or said,
Speaker 1: he may not be a pass russure, but he's a
Speaker 1: good player. He's there, he can be disruptive. I mean, hey,
Speaker 1: when you have that length, I mean you can You're
Speaker 1: gonna be part of a rotation in the NFL for
Speaker 1: a long time. So again, I think within context, this
Speaker 1: pass rush class has a lot to offer. You're not
Speaker 1: going to find a Miles Garrett in this group, but
Speaker 1: if you're looking for some quality players, they're going to
Speaker 1: carve out careers in this league. This group has has
Speaker 1: some guys. Really quickly, before we kind of wrap things
Speaker 1: up here, you mentioned Quincy Rochet. You said fourth round.
Speaker 1: Did I hear that right? Yeah? Well, I think with
Speaker 1: the way he helped himself the Senior Bowl, I think
Speaker 1: he has a good chance to go top one hundred now.
Speaker 1: But okay, I mean people tried to say it he
Speaker 1: was like a first round pick like in the fall,
Speaker 1: and it just that was never the case. Never I
Speaker 1: grade it personally, just me and I know this, A
Speaker 1: lot of people are on the league graded him as
Speaker 1: the fourth round pick. And then with the way he
Speaker 1: played the Senior Bowl. Uh, you know, I gave him
Speaker 1: a little bit more of a of a bump based
Speaker 1: off of how we played. But you know, he's a
Speaker 1: I think he's a borderline top one hundred guy, so
Speaker 1: maybe late third, early fourth. I had him as a
Speaker 1: late second, early third, So I mean I might be
Speaker 1: wrong on that one, but I think he did help
Speaker 1: because I had him a little bit higher than what
Speaker 1: you had him prior to the Senior Bowl, and then
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl elevated him a little bit more than
Speaker 1: that because I thought he had a good week down
Speaker 1: in Mobile. Any other guys we want to talk about
Speaker 1: before we wrap things up in terms of these pass rushers?
Speaker 1: Kat Oh, Well, I want to throw the ball to Jeff.
Speaker 1: Jeff'son Marlin guy. I want Jeff to talk about his guy. Marlin. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's not a pass rusher though, that's my defense. That's
Speaker 1: my defensive tackle. You mean that's better, the better USC
Speaker 1: defensive tackle out of the two we're talking d lineman today.
Speaker 1: All Right, we're good. I agree. I agree he's better.
Speaker 1: He's fifty player in this draft? Is that how you? Okay?
Speaker 1: Marlin tool Loui Potu, I doubt that's it, Hue to Lopo,
Speaker 1: I don't even know. I'm all over the place to
Speaker 1: tell me about him. Jeff two. He's three hundred and
Speaker 1: five pounds and one of the things I really like
Speaker 1: with my defensive tackles as I like the guys who
Speaker 1: make you type the words violent hands, and I think
Speaker 1: that that's him. I think, even though he's three hundred
Speaker 1: and five pounds, that he's one of those guys that
Speaker 1: will man handle some single blockers. He's just so hard
Speaker 1: to sustain a block on he's active. I think he
Speaker 1: is better suited to help an NFL team than at
Speaker 1: least when I was starting to do the work. I
Speaker 1: feel like his teammate Jay Tufele, who opted out this year,
Speaker 1: was the more talked about d tackle. They have the
Speaker 1: same build, but Marlon t to me, is just a
Speaker 1: more consistent, more powerful, more heavy handed guy that I
Speaker 1: think is totally worth to me, like a third round
Speaker 1: pick and stick him in the middle of your defense
Speaker 1: and have some fun. Sounds like fun to me. Any
Speaker 1: of those guys that could potentially come in and I'm
Speaker 1: sure up the run game, sure up the defense. The
Speaker 1: Cowboys need a one technique, probably more so than they
Speaker 1: need a three technique because you have like four of
Speaker 1: them on the roster already. So let's go find a
Speaker 1: one technique. Maybe some pass rush depth at the edge spot.
Speaker 1: Two and then let's figure it out defensively. But that's
Speaker 1: gonna do it for us here on the Draft Show.
Speaker 1: Make sure and tune in next Thursday ten am Central
Speaker 1: Time with these guys back in action, and then also
Speaker 1: Tuesday at ten a m Bucky Brooks, Bryan brought us,
Speaker 1: and the great David Hellman joining us on Tuesdays. But
Speaker 1: for now, it's that's it for us. Chris Bean back
Speaker 1: in studio for Kevin Kat Turner, Jeff Cavana on Dame Bruegler.
Speaker 1: I'm Kyle Yelmans. We'll see you next time on The
Speaker 1: Draft Show, presented by Miller Lite. This has been a
Speaker 1: production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: Football Club.