WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: The Biggest Lawsuits in Gaming History 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.480 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.400 Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:21.280 and Holdna Tech Are you. We're going to listen to 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.840 a classic episode of tech Stuff. This one originally published 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:32.640 on April. It is called the Biggest Lawsuits in Gaming History. Enjoy. 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:37.440 So these two lawsuits have atari in common as as 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:42.319 one of the the the participants in said suits, and 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:44.519 I as I'm so glad you're here to explain not 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:47.960 just what happened and what are the particulars of the case, 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:53.200 but why it's important because both of these cases took 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:57.320 place fairly early on in the era of home video 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:01.600 games and as a result, would end up really shaping 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:08.000 the way video games are treated under a copyright law. Yeah. So, 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.120 for those who don't know, I went to law school, 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.040 I graduated, I passed the Barn, New York, States, and 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.880 immediately got a job in technology. Ended up doing that 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.920 for the rest of my career. Um, and so there's 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.600 there's there's a long history of why I became a lawyer. 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.560 You know, parents in first generation American like be be 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:29.240 a lawyer, or doctor. So the game a law degree. Um, 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.400 and I took intellectual property in school and these cases, 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:34.000 the ones that we're gonna talk about, were presented to 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:36.560 me back to back and it was just maddening to 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.479 try to figure out the differences why one case went 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:41.440 one way and went why one another. And we'll get 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.800 all into that. But I'm really kicking myself because I 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.600 used to have my my books, my notebooks. I'm like, 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.720 I'll never need my briefs anymore, so I chucked them out. 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.160 And so here we go talking about two cases that 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.400 I learned a long time ago. So uh, if there 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.200 are any errors, I apologize. But we have looked over 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.240 the cases of several times day personally, and I've looked 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.480 at two or three times today and written up notes. Again. 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:06.760 I printed out one of them the right notes, because 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.160 that's how I used to do it back in the day, 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:11.080 to the point to the point where you have hard 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.720 copy in front of you, I literally have my penciled 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:17.560 out notes all over based on book briefs, which I 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:19.840 used to do when I was in school. Wow. So 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.120 the first of the two cases we're talking about, and 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:24.840 as I has pointed out, these have to do with 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.560 intellectual property with copyright, which is a tricky subject, right Well, 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.040 I've talked about several times on tech stuff, and in general, 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:39.200 copyright is about making sure someone who creates a work 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:43.200 of some sort that's in a fixed tangible medium has 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.560 some sort of protection that that you don't have to 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:50.160 worry about, or rather you have some recourse if someone 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.440 were to try and copy that work you could pursue 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.480 action against them based upon the copyright. It gives you 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.799 that that level of protection, and anything that you set 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:03.880 down in a fixed tangible medium technically is protected by copyright. 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:08.480 Registering a copyright, however, is a great idea because then 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.160 there's an official record of said copyright if you should 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:17.240 ever have cause to, you know, bring that up in court. Um. 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.079 This is one of those things where it really only 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:23.280 plays out as soon as there is is either a 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.600 lawsuit or the threat of a lawsuit. Otherwise it's kind 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.679 of a it's it's kind of in the background. And 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.600 the first case that we wanted to talk about was 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.840 Atari versus Amusement World, which sounds like the most fun 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:41.400 lawsuit ever. It definitely does the cases from way back, 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:45.640 and it was the U. S. District Court in Maryland, 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.680 and uh, it's pretty simple ideas. So we have two 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.720 different companies. We've gotta tar they held the copyright for Asteroids. 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.240 You guys probably heard that game. You've probably seen it, 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.640 you know the saying asteroids. I'm sure you guys have 0:03:57.680 --> 0:03:59.560 a picture in your head. There's a little triangular ship 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:01.680 and there and their rocks flying at you and you 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.800 blow them up right right until you get blown up 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.680 by either a rock or one of the few little 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.720 enemy spaceships that would occasionally pop up. Yeah. So another 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.040 company called Amusement World, which again is a great name, 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:15.160 it's not as creative as Atari as that. When I 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:17.320 listened to the three partner on its are finding out 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.279 where the names came from, I'm like, this is pretty 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:22.599 awesome to hear. Um. So these guys basically saw the 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:24.840 idea and they're like, we could make our own game. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:27.920 And uh, one of the big things that you're gonna 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:29.960 get out of this case is that you can't. You 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.120 can't have a monopoly on an idea. So they are 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.159 free to make a game. But as Ali saw this 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:36.719 game and they're like, wait a second, it's Trangler ship. 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:40.000 You're blown up rocks, you're totally stealing our stuff and 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.120 we're suing you, right. And another thing to keep in 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.719 mind is this is early enough in the in the 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:49.839 era of video games that the court had not fully 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.520 decided that video games were something you could totally copy. Right. 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:55.880 In fact, in the other case we're gonna talk about, 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:00.080 there's a note in the court's decision that says the 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.120 video games are not something you can fully copyright. But 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.520 there are elements of copyright protection that do extend to 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:09.440 video games, and it gets into particulars that we're probably 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.839 not going to cover in this in this podcast, but 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:13.760 just to say that this was kind of a wild 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:18.480 West era of both the home video game industry and 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:23.520 of law because technology had outpaced what the legal system 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.080 was ready to cover. And we see that again and again, 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.599 not just in video games obviously, but in all realms 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.200 of technology and law. You see that with things like 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:36.120 the autonomous cars coming out and people saying, wait a minute, 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:39.120 how do we what sort of legislation do we need 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:44.320 to put up to deal with this new reality of technology, 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.120 And it just turns out that, you know, the law 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:52.200 is something that has to catch up to our changing world. Uh, 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.800 And in this case, you know we had we had 0:05:54.839 --> 0:06:00.360 an interesting uh case brought forth by Atari saying here 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.479 are some of the things that we say, are the 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.880 similarities between our game and this other game called Meteors 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:12.080 Asteroids and Meteors. I mean already just just with the names. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.880 You're like, guys, maybe we should come up with a different, 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.880 you know, title, But they court identified a bunch of 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:23.800 multiple points of similarity. Now, in cases of trying to 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:29.080 determine whether an author has plagiarized another author, for example, 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:33.560 often courts will ask for some third party, preferably a 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.839 a the third party that has no interest in the 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:41.840 outcome of the case, to identify any points of similarity 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.119 and then give his or her opinion as to whether 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:50.200 or not the points of similarity indicate a case of plagiarism, 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.600 or if, in fact, it could have just been coincidence, because, 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:57.120 as we're all aware, different people can come up with 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.880 similar ideas that around the same time, and it's not 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.440 always a case of of plagiarism. So here are some 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:07.520 of the points of similarity. Both games involved the player 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.480 shooting and destroying rocks, and in both games there are 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:15.880 actually three different sizes of rocks. Those rocks would appear 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.280 in waves, with the initial waves being composed of bigger rocks. 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.280 When you shoot them, they would break into medium sized rocks. 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.520 Medium sized rocks would break into small rocks. Small rocks 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.560 would disappear when you shot them, and the speed of 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:31.960 the rocks would depend upon their size, so large rocks 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.000 move more slowly than small ones. So as you're spinning 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.520 around with your little ship in both Asteroids and Meteors, 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.200 as you shoot these rocks, they start getting smaller and 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:45.200 they start moving faster, so you know, you develop your 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.520 strategy around that. Uh. And in both if you got 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:50.920 hit by a rock game over right, or at least 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.440 your your player life for that one ended, you would 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:58.040 usually get multiple lives per game. Um. And both games 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:02.040 had enemy spaceships and UH. The enemy spaceships came in 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:05.080 two different sizes for both games. The bigger ones were 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.600 worth fewer points than the smaller ones, the idea being 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:10.720 that the smaller ones are harder to hit, therefore they're 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.040 worth more points. Both the players ships and the enemy 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:18.520 spaceships could shoot projectiles. Impact would be automatic destruction, which 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.400 would be accompanied by I think they actually said the 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.040 symbol of an explosion, because I mean this is this 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.080 is early days of video games. Guys. You remember, like, 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.560 there's not a heck of a lot you can do. Yeah, 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.840 when it comes to graphically representing anything. So we're talking 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.520 some pretty primitive looking graphics. So it's the stuff that 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.680 gets laid out here in the next case, it actually 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.160 determines how, like we could have so many side scrollers. 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.760 It's just such a bizarre way to go. Yeah, and 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.840 when that's something else that will come up in this 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:52.000 discussion is that part of the reason the cases turned 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.760 out the way they did is again it's so early 0:08:54.880 --> 0:09:00.520 on in the era of video games that people had 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.320 not really well, one, the technology had not advanced to 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:08.600 the point where you could have very different depictions of uh, 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.440 you know, different interpretations of the same basic idea. You 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.080 were limited in that because the technology itself was limited. 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.200 So it's not like you could, you know, have one 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.360 that looks like asteroids where you've got this top down 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.160 view of a little triangle shooting rocks, and the other 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:28.680 one you have a photo realistic, you know, a space 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.840 simulator where you're flying through shooting rocks. Uh. So the 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.959 technology itself was limited, and thus a lot of people 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.840 figured that the ability to express an idea itself was 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.640 limited because of that. Um, But there's some other similarities 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.080 that I thought were kind of like, well, there's no 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.720 reason that you could argue one game would have to 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:55.400 have this particular element versus the other. For example, both 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:59.600 games had a two tone beeping noise that increased in tempo. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:04.560 Is the game progress, so like, uh, and we just 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.680 get faster and faster. Um. Both games had scores for 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:12.080 players that were displayed in the same sections of the screen. So, 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:14.199 in other words, like the player one score would be 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.120 in the upper left corner and the player to score 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:20.320 be the upper right corner. Both games had a thrust 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.000 button that would let the player's ship move in whatever 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.880 direction it happened to be facing at the time. Um, 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:31.480 have you ever played Asteroids like the arcade version of Asteroids? 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.959 I've actually played the home version of of Asteroids. I 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:37.560 don't think I've ever played it in the arcade. Actually, yeah, 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:40.760 the arcade version was tough. I mean, this would be 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.160 the home version because it is a tari I believe 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.280 it's not the video game version. Maybe it could be 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.679 the video game version because you did have both divisions. 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:52.760 But um, the the buttons on the Asteroids game were 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:55.280 what would allow you to turn the ship left, turn 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.680 the ship right, or use thrust? Um Obviously you would 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:02.880 just use a a direction on your joystick. Usually I 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.080 think pressing up would give you the thrust in the 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.760 home version. Ah, but in both versions, if you released 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.400 the thrust, then gradually your ship would come to a halt, 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:18.960 although the court did did actually notice that this happens 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:23.240 more quickly in meteors than in Asteroids. Uh. And both games, 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.800 at ten thousand points, you'd get an extra life, and 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.720 each successfully completed wave of rocks initiates a new wave, 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:33.920 and each new wave has more rocks in it than 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.600 the previous wave. So those were the similarities that the 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.240 court noticed between these two games, and there are a 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.800 lot of them. I mean, there's the very basic nature 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.559 of the game seems identical in these cases, right, I mean, 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:50.559 it would be hard for me to argue otherwise I 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.480 would think, yeah, I mean, if if it's kind of 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.319 like modern games, you're thinking of the Call of Duty 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.800 versus any other battlefield game, you think of any any 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.440 kind of war game, they're all kind of the same. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.360 But why is that even allowed? And uh, there are 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.640 differences in these two games, Meteors and Asteroids. So Asteroids 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:14.000 had this, uh had a black field underneath the actual game, 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.640 but in Meteors you had this star field and the 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.000 look of distant stars. And this is kind of really 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:20.480 pushing it because when you're looking at them, if you 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.320 haven't seen the photos of this this game, you'll see 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.440 they're just basically dots. That's kind of neat. Asteroids is 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:28.800 black and white, and Meteors was in color, and that 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:32.840 was pretty different. Meteors also had some shading on the 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.360 spaceship and the rocks, so kind of had more dimension 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.600 because the Asteroids is pretty flat looking when it comes 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.800 to ships and rocks, almost like a schematic drawing, like 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.439 it's it's it's or almost abstract in a way, because 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.199 the rocks all look the same and they all just 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.400 kind of float at you, and then you shoot them 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.920 and now they're they're different sized, but the shapes are 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.760 still very much the same and they're still floating at you. 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.319 It's not you know, there's no real sense of, uh, 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.760 the dimensionality in the original Asteroids game. I really like 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.000 the element that Meteors starts off. When you start off 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.640 the game, there's an animation of you blasting off of Earth. 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.400 Compare that to Asteroids. You just start and you're just 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.520 in the in the field. Time to go. Um, you've 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.520 got the game. Meteors is actually faster in general, and 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:21.760 it moves, and you have a different way of shooting 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.480 as well. You could can you could shoot a lot 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.000 more I think continuously compared to Asteroids. Right, Asteroids was 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.840 like a burst fire thing. You could fire a few shots, 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:33.560 but then you had to weight. It's almost like a 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.840 recharge period. Have I missing anything else? So that's are 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.920 the main ones. That's the main ones. I mean, uh, 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.480 you know there were There was also the fact that 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.360 the Meteors and meteor and Meteors rather could tumble like 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.719 they actually they actually seemed to rotate as they were 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.720 coming towards you, whereas the if you watch the old 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:57.200 Asteroids game, those shapes just they maintain their same orientation 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.959 as they move across. So there was that too. So 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:06.640 there were some definite improvements on the game. So Amusement 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:11.480 World had to defend itself against these claims of copyright infringement. 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.559 They tried a couple of different tactics. The first thing 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:19.400 they tried was, uh, they said that Atari's copyright on 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.560 Asteroids was invalid in this case because of the way 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:28.280 they registered their copyright. So they said that Atari had 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:32.960 registered Asteroids copyright as an audio visual work, not as 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.960 a literary work, and that as a result, the copyright 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:40.800 wasn't valid. They said that Atari had submitted essentially a 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:46.000 film video of one out of a possible infinite variations 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.520 of a single game. So in other words, they captured 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:54.760 gameplay footage of Asteroids, and that particular gameplay footage was 0:14:54.800 --> 0:15:00.880 being sent as as part of the the the work 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:05.560 that Atari was submitting to get this copyright, and I 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:09.720 guess Amusement World was essentially saying, well, technically, wouldn't that 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:13.160 just give copyright to that specific film? Like that was 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.280 that's such a great argument. It's taking like you were saying, 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.080 this is the wild West, it's the early days of 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.520 video games, and how are they protected. So the idea 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.280 that that Amusement World is pushing us wait a second, 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:28.120 that's a tape or recording. You definitely have protection for that, 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.440 but you're suing us about the game itself. And the 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.280 court was like wait, wait, wait a second, Okay, now 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.280 they did uh put the work in a tangible medium 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:40.480 and that happens to be the circuitry, and it's not 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.360 so easy to just send us an arcade cabinet. This 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:46.560 is the way it used to be. Yeah, yeah, because 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.080 the wrong trip. I mean, the game is hard coded 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.480 on a a a circuit board, and that circuit board 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.640 is only useful if you haven't connected up to the 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.760 rest of the system. So yeah, I mean you would 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:02.360 have to have had a tory send a full console 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.120 like I mean a full like Atari cabinet out to 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.600 the Patent office that or rather the copyright office, and 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.800 uh deliver that and say like, here's our fixed tangible medium. 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:15.600 And hilariously, I know a lot of people think the 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.560 laws kind of messed up and it allows for absurd results. 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.640 If this kind of actual event that's happening right now 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.000 we're talking about, if they if Atari had to send 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.600 an actual cabinet every single time it made a game, 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.960 that would cause such a ludicrous amount of storage requirements 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.720 by the government it would make no sense. It would 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.880 can you imagine filing these arcades? Well, it would have 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.600 made the copyright office a much more fun place to work. 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:44.240 It would be a great, fantastic break area where you like, 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:46.880 we guess, guess what we got? This other game hasn't 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:51.440 even come out in our gades yet. Um, you know, 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.560 it seemed to me this this is the argument I 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.120 would make with this, Like if you were trying to 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.440 to say, like, well, what is this similar to? Let's 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.000 say that I write a play and, for some reason 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:08.320 that I cannot even come up with right now, I 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:12.480 submit my play to the copyright office, not by sending 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.919 in a script to to be copied, you know, to 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.560 register the copyright, but rather I put on a performance 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:25.560 of the play and then I record the performance on 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.680 using a video camera or whatever, and I send that 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:32.399 in to be copyright. That you could argue like, well, 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.640 you're copyrighting the performance of this play, but the play 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.560 itself you still haven't registered. That's kind of the argument 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:43.280 Amusement World was making. And ultimately the court dismissed this 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.720 argument and said, all right, you know, for for practicality sake, 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.440 just for the same reasons that I as was mentioning earlier, 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.760 we have to draw the line somewhere and a video 0:17:54.960 --> 0:18:00.080 depicting gameplay footage is going to be differentiated from a 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:04.399 film in that we're not saying that this one video 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.320 representation of the game is the only thing that is 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:14.040 protected under copyright because it's ludicrous. But but it could 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.440 have gone the other way. That could have been a 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.760 first case where they're saying, actually, you're right, didn't the 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:24.200 necessarcuit board. Um, well, no, you're right, there's no copyright 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:26.919 protection and definite your copyright covers a heck of a 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:30.800 lot of things, include including derivative works. So if John 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.399 Fannitz end in that recording, if I transcribed it and 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.280 go ha ha, I can sell this because you didn't 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:40.000 copyright the actual script, Clearly it's derivative of what you've done. 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.399 So that's it's supposed to reward the content creator. It's 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:47.920 supposed to be about furthering uh society, because you when 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.280 you write something, you're protected and you can actually enjoy 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.440 the fruits of your labor. And that's the whole point 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.560 of copyright in a nutshell. Yeah, and it and it 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.560 does get complicated. I mean, using that other example of 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.560 the play and shooting a video, let's say that I 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.680 haven't sent in the script for copyright yet, I as 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.119 comes to a rehearsal of this play that has not 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.959 yet been copyrighted. He video tapes the rehearsal and copyrights 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.800 the videotape, and now suddenly he's got a registered copyright, 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.879 assuming that it's granted, he has a registered copyright for 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:22.280 this thing. I haven't copyrighted my script, and his registration 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.280 would predate anything I would send in, which would cause 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.720 further complications. So you know, the whole point of this 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.359 is to try and create as clear a record of 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:36.399 ownership as possible. But if you don't do your part 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:40.399 in that, then you can't expect to have the protection 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.200 that it would grant you. So uh, in this case, 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.959 I guess it was a good thing that the court said, hey, uh, 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.920 the audio visual thing is not um, not a barrier. 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.960 It's not something that is going to count against Atari 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.680 in this case. But Amusement World then had to change 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.600 its tactics and said it Uh. What Attari was trying 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:07.479 to do was claim copyright protection of the idea of 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.280 a video game in which the player tries to survive 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:16.200 encounters with asteroids and enemy spaceships. Who knew that video 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.240 gaming could be so litigious? And I'll have to do 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:21.359 a follow up episode to this one at some point, 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:25.240 because there's more to it. But before we get ahead 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.160 of ourselves, let's take a quick break and be back 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:37.920 for more of this classic episode. So this is where 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:43.199 we get into another interesting, uh facet of copyright, because, 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:48.280 as it turns out, an idea by itself is not 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:52.080 something that's guaranteed protection. Yeah, that's the whole thing about 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.640 idea versus the expression of an idea. And you're gonna 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:59.760 get familiar with this jeweled be pendant and what this 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.439 this thing is. If there was this lawsuit, I'll do 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.800 it real quick. There was one manufacturer of a thing 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:08.320 of it, like a brooch or a pin that a 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.800 person would wear. It was a BE that had jewels 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.240 on it. So somebody saw that idea, Hey, that's a 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:17.440 really cool idea. I'm gonna make the same thing. So 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.959 the first person who made the be jeweled B said, no, 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:25.439 I'm suing you for a copyright that's mine. And the 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:29.680 court said, listen, there's only one way to show a 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.520 jeweled B. That's it. Now. Granted we could have a 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.520 different pattern on the actual B, but a B, if 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:37.840 you're trying to keep it realistic, is going to have 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:41.119 the black and yellow or brown and yellow kind of stripes. 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.160 It's gonna have wings. There are elements you cannot change 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:46.960 about this, and there's only one true way to do this. 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.320 In that case, you do the first person does have 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:53.240 a copyright on that actual item, but it's not exactly 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:56.320 terribly strong. Another person can actually make the same thing 0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:58.880 also have a copyright on it, which sounds a little 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:01.439 bit bizarre if you think about it. But because you 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:06.440 can't copyright the idea, this is free to copy and 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:08.280 you know you still have a copyright, it's just such 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:12.240 a weak, uh week copyright that it's it's very very strange. 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:15.000 And that's basically we gets applied to this case. Yeah, yeah, 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:19.320 this this idea that okay, so the idea itself is 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:23.320 not copyrightable. That there you could have the reasonable expectation 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.879 that different people would want to create a game based 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:32.040 on this same kernel of an idea. The argument then becomes, well, 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:35.760 how many different ways are there to express that idea? 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:38.520 If it turns out there's really only one method of 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:42.840 doing it, you can't truly have protection of that because 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:46.520 it would be silly, right if it's it's only if 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:50.720 there are multiple ways to express that idea that you 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:53.919 you could argue, well, this person copied you, and they 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:56.719 didn't have to. They could have expressed that same idea 0:22:56.760 --> 0:23:01.800 in a totally different and novel way. So therefore they 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:07.640 are they are actively violating your copyright. You have a legitimate, uh, 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:11.159 legitimate complaint. So what the court had to decide in 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:16.600 this case was, did what the stuff that Amusement World 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:22.520