WEBVTT - Breastfeeding, Black Market Baby Formula, and Bobbie 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796 Pushkin. 0:00:20.676 --> 0:00:24.676 I just went into the world of motherhood expecting that 0:00:24.716 --> 0:00:29.716 I would breastfeed, expecting it would be easy, and it wasn't. 0:00:30.236 --> 0:00:35.396 I found myself feeding my daughter formula and having that 0:00:35.516 --> 0:00:39.596 visceral feeling, that visceral feeling that I should be giving 0:00:39.596 --> 0:00:42.876 her something better, the visceral feeling that I should feel 0:00:43.276 --> 0:00:46.436 less guilty and I should feel better myself as a 0:00:46.516 --> 0:00:49.956 mother that I'm giving her food and nutrition. But something 0:00:49.996 --> 0:00:53.076 about me just feels bad about it. That hit me 0:00:53.796 --> 0:00:56.276 in a way that I knew I had to do 0:00:56.316 --> 0:00:57.036 something about it. 0:01:01.716 --> 0:01:04.436 I'm Jacob Goldstein, and this is what's your problem. My 0:01:04.476 --> 0:01:07.516 guest today is Laura Mode. Laura is the founder and 0:01:07.636 --> 0:01:11.116 CEO of Bobby. Bobby is a company that makes baby 0:01:11.156 --> 0:01:15.196 formula and sells it online directly to consumers, directly to parents. 0:01:15.916 --> 0:01:19.076 There are a few ways to formulate Laura's problem. One 0:01:19.276 --> 0:01:22.556 is a problem about regulation and competition. How do you 0:01:22.636 --> 0:01:26.036 launch a startup in a highly regulated industry that for 0:01:26.116 --> 0:01:30.916 decades has been largely dominated by two companies. Another way 0:01:31.036 --> 0:01:34.916 to formulate the problem it's a marketing problem. But marketing 0:01:35.036 --> 0:01:38.436 in kind of the broadest sense of the word. How 0:01:38.476 --> 0:01:40.996 do you create a news story around what it means 0:01:41.036 --> 0:01:44.276 to give your baby formula instead of, or in addition 0:01:44.356 --> 0:01:45.556 to breastfeeding. 0:01:48.916 --> 0:01:51.756 I wanted to develop a formula that US parents felt 0:01:51.836 --> 0:01:55.996 truly proud of. I wanted to combat the feeling that 0:01:56.916 --> 0:01:58.996 we were feeding them something that we weren't proud of, 0:01:59.236 --> 0:02:04.036 that parents felt guilty of. And in many ways, they 0:02:04.036 --> 0:02:07.156 were turning to an alternative solution, which was the black market. 0:02:07.756 --> 0:02:11.076 And what black market formula? What black market formula? 0:02:11.116 --> 0:02:13.956 You're talking about European black market? 0:02:14.676 --> 0:02:16.516 Huh? What does that mean? 0:02:16.916 --> 0:02:17.676 Great question? 0:02:18.116 --> 0:02:21.356 What that means is that there was and there is 0:02:21.716 --> 0:02:25.476 many sites out there that is selling infant formula to 0:02:25.596 --> 0:02:29.596 US parents that is made and produced and seen as 0:02:29.596 --> 0:02:32.556 infant formula in Europe, but it's not categorized as infant 0:02:32.596 --> 0:02:36.476 formula here in the US. And a lot of parents, 0:02:36.516 --> 0:02:39.356 I believe. The New York Times reported several years ago 0:02:39.516 --> 0:02:43.116 that twenty percent of Brooklyn parents were importing from. 0:02:43.516 --> 0:02:48.156 Brooklyn parents are as a Brooklyn parent, let me say, hey, 0:02:48.316 --> 0:02:50.276 I was not in that twenty percent, and be weare 0:02:50.316 --> 0:02:50.716 the worst. 0:02:52.396 --> 0:02:53.156 It's so good? 0:02:53.556 --> 0:02:58.236 Why why why do people in Brooklyn think European formula 0:02:58.276 --> 0:02:58.676 is better? 0:02:59.916 --> 0:03:01.716 So it's all over and the one caution I would 0:03:01.716 --> 0:03:03.996 say is I think it is really important and also 0:03:04.036 --> 0:03:07.796 really dangerous for us to refer to anything as better 0:03:07.916 --> 0:03:08.316 or worse. 0:03:09.156 --> 0:03:13.516 How people are doing this. Yeah, but why why why? 0:03:13.836 --> 0:03:18.676 Because the ingredients there, and the ingredients chosen to put 0:03:18.676 --> 0:03:23.956 in formula there are often seen as ingredients of choice, 0:03:24.396 --> 0:03:26.436 and the ingredients of the parents would deam is better. 0:03:26.916 --> 0:03:30.236 You start your company, you start making formula, and you 0:03:30.356 --> 0:03:34.876 run into this fact, this FDA regulation in a very 0:03:35.196 --> 0:03:36.356 dramatic way. What happened. 0:03:39.276 --> 0:03:45.036 I knew it was regulated, but what I hadn't fully 0:03:46.196 --> 0:03:50.596 consumed was that there was very little wiggle room within 0:03:50.676 --> 0:03:55.276 those regulations to be creative, disruptive, or to at least 0:03:55.276 --> 0:03:57.316 take a first step towards changing them. 0:03:57.436 --> 0:04:00.996 Yes, the FDA is not into creative and disruptive. It's 0:04:01.036 --> 0:04:01.836 out there thing. 0:04:02.916 --> 0:04:06.156 No, two things that you'd never see come together. 0:04:06.676 --> 0:04:10.036 And just to be clear, this is back in twenty nineteen. 0:04:10.076 --> 0:04:13.356 It's well before the formula shortage. We had a last 0:04:13.436 --> 0:04:16.876 year that was in the news, but specifically just what happened. 0:04:17.676 --> 0:04:21.756 Specifically, what happened was I could not get product made 0:04:21.756 --> 0:04:24.276 here in the US, so I decided to go to 0:04:24.276 --> 0:04:27.756 Germany and I made my first product in Germany. The 0:04:27.876 --> 0:04:31.316 challenge was is that because we made it abroad, it 0:04:31.356 --> 0:04:34.836 didn't match the regulations in the US, meaning the FDA's 0:04:35.156 --> 0:04:37.796 rags did not see this as an infant formula here 0:04:37.796 --> 0:04:41.076 in the US. So I said, you know what, let's 0:04:41.116 --> 0:04:43.316 just put this out as a toddler formula to begin with. 0:04:43.396 --> 0:04:45.996 That puts it into a different category and it would 0:04:46.076 --> 0:04:49.036 serve it to non infants, and it's a great way 0:04:49.076 --> 0:04:49.516 to start. 0:04:50.596 --> 0:04:52.676 And so, just to be clear, the idea is if 0:04:52.716 --> 0:04:55.596 you call it poddler formula instead of baby formula, then 0:04:55.636 --> 0:04:58.596 it's just like powdered milk or something. Then it's regulated 0:04:58.636 --> 0:05:01.596 like food and has a much lower regulatory threshold. 0:05:02.156 --> 0:05:04.236 Exactly exactly it's food. 0:05:05.156 --> 0:05:07.556 There was one major problem though, is that it actually 0:05:07.596 --> 0:05:10.876 was infant formula, and it would have been infant formula 0:05:10.916 --> 0:05:11.556 in Germany. 0:05:11.716 --> 0:05:13.956 And you knew that, right. You were just trying to 0:05:13.996 --> 0:05:16.076 sort of do a regulatory arbitrage. 0:05:16.116 --> 0:05:18.596 Basically, I was looking at this as a way to 0:05:18.596 --> 0:05:20.836 be able to get high quality formula into the hands 0:05:20.876 --> 0:05:23.356 of American parents in a way that I felt was 0:05:23.396 --> 0:05:24.596 categorized differently. 0:05:24.956 --> 0:05:29.316 Yeah. Disruptive, yes, but this. 0:05:29.436 --> 0:05:31.756 Was a safe, high quality infant formula that was being 0:05:31.796 --> 0:05:35.036 fed to millions of babies in another continent, and our 0:05:35.076 --> 0:05:39.156 continent would not have categorized it as infant formula. And 0:05:39.556 --> 0:05:43.956 ten days in to a very small pilot where we 0:05:43.956 --> 0:05:48.716 were only selling it to folks within our city in 0:05:48.716 --> 0:05:52.076 San Francisco, I want to say there was ninety three customers. 0:05:52.436 --> 0:05:56.796 The FDA called, not just a phone call. They came 0:05:56.836 --> 0:05:59.876 to visit our warehouse and I received a phone call 0:05:59.916 --> 0:06:03.476 from our warehouse manager, and that warehouse manager says, the 0:06:03.516 --> 0:06:08.476 FDA's here. And I in a state of disbelief because 0:06:08.876 --> 0:06:12.756 in all of our research, the FDA, until you've reached 0:06:12.756 --> 0:06:15.476 a certain size, and until there truly is a concern, 0:06:15.756 --> 0:06:17.116 they're not showing up, Like. 0:06:17.076 --> 0:06:19.236 How do they even know you exist? Right? You said, 0:06:19.396 --> 0:06:20.476 ninety three customers? 0:06:20.916 --> 0:06:23.916 Ninety three customers. It's a high quality infant forum. 0:06:23.996 --> 0:06:27.516 There was no safety concerns, no issues reported, but there 0:06:27.636 --> 0:06:32.316 was some press, and that press highlighted that the company 0:06:32.596 --> 0:06:35.316 was the new infant formula company in the industry. Now 0:06:35.356 --> 0:06:38.676 for a regulated body who regulates all infant formula, this 0:06:38.716 --> 0:06:40.876 can also be a shock because where did it come from? 0:06:40.956 --> 0:06:46.796 Who is this company? And at our warehouse they were met. 0:06:46.996 --> 0:06:50.036 I was met with very friendly. 0:06:49.676 --> 0:06:55.036 Officials in full uniform who very quickly said you can't 0:06:55.116 --> 0:06:56.476 do this and shut us down. 0:06:58.356 --> 0:06:59.396 And it was heartbreaking. 0:06:59.716 --> 0:07:02.636 It was both heartbreaking and it was the first moment 0:07:02.796 --> 0:07:08.276 of just very humbly realizing that just because an industry 0:07:08.316 --> 0:07:12.156 needs to be disrupt did doesn't mean that you can 0:07:12.356 --> 0:07:17.036 just bulldoze your way through. And there's many ways to 0:07:17.116 --> 0:07:20.596 approach disruption and change. And it really was I think 0:07:20.636 --> 0:07:22.516 it was one of those first moments I was like, Okay, 0:07:22.916 --> 0:07:24.916 this is going to be a journey. This is this 0:07:24.956 --> 0:07:28.596 isn't my previous history coming from tech, this is going 0:07:28.676 --> 0:07:30.396 to be different, and it was. 0:07:30.756 --> 0:07:32.716 I mean, the way the way you talk about it, it 0:07:32.716 --> 0:07:35.676 sort of reminds me of when Uber was starting out 0:07:35.716 --> 0:07:39.116 and there were all of these rules in different cities 0:07:39.396 --> 0:07:43.996 about UH that that limited who could provide taxi service basically, right, 0:07:44.036 --> 0:07:47.676 and clearly to me, those rules just benefited taxi services 0:07:47.796 --> 0:07:49.796 at the expense of customers, right, And I feel like 0:07:50.956 --> 0:07:53.116 that in a way was a model for what you're doing, Like, ah, 0:07:53.196 --> 0:07:56.356 there's this duopoly, it hasn't changed in decades. Come on, 0:07:56.596 --> 0:07:58.956 we're just going to do this and figure it out later. 0:07:59.036 --> 0:08:01.436 And the FDA basically said, no, you are not. That 0:08:01.556 --> 0:08:02.356 is not the way this one. 0:08:03.676 --> 0:08:06.556 That's exactly what happened. Exactly what happened. 0:08:07.796 --> 0:08:09.676 Yeah, and you know there's I think when you go 0:08:09.716 --> 0:08:12.676 through these things as well, Like I was looking around, 0:08:12.876 --> 0:08:15.276 and I think for any parent listening to this, you 0:08:15.396 --> 0:08:19.236 either are or you've heard of someone importing European formula 0:08:19.276 --> 0:08:22.836 off a black market. And wherever there's a black market, 0:08:23.036 --> 0:08:26.036 there tends to be an opportunity. And that's exactly as 0:08:26.036 --> 0:08:30.316 a parent at the time, importing black market European formula, 0:08:30.636 --> 0:08:33.716 You're almost looking at this going, well, it's happening in 0:08:33.756 --> 0:08:36.236 many ways, but it's not being done in a way 0:08:36.276 --> 0:08:39.116 that's meeting consumers where they're currently at. And this seemed 0:08:39.156 --> 0:08:42.396 like a different approach to something that was rampant and 0:08:42.476 --> 0:08:44.396 already happening all over the country. 0:08:45.076 --> 0:08:50.596 So the FDA's basically shutting you down. You're a brand 0:08:50.636 --> 0:08:53.076 new company and the FDA is saying you cannot be 0:08:53.156 --> 0:08:54.756 a company in the way that you were planning to 0:08:54.756 --> 0:08:55.356 be a company. 0:08:55.676 --> 0:08:56.236 What do you do? 0:08:58.436 --> 0:09:01.636 So you go through an identity crisis for a hot minute, 0:09:01.996 --> 0:09:04.396 you go, who am I what's this about? 0:09:04.516 --> 0:09:07.836 How do we tackle it. Why did I do this? 0:09:07.956 --> 0:09:12.996 But also how else would I have done it? Because, 0:09:13.196 --> 0:09:15.636 as we all have come to learn, there was no 0:09:15.796 --> 0:09:19.316 other options for a new company to be born within 0:09:19.356 --> 0:09:23.316 the country. That is why it duopoly exists, and that 0:09:23.436 --> 0:09:26.556 is why this industry is so concentrated. There was no 0:09:26.676 --> 0:09:30.236 Yellow Pages of infant formula manufacturers here in the US. 0:09:30.716 --> 0:09:32.756 If I decided to make baby food, I would have 0:09:32.756 --> 0:09:35.756 had a choice of two hundred manufacturers to call, But 0:09:35.836 --> 0:09:39.876 I chose a hard regulated product because I believe that 0:09:40.036 --> 0:09:43.676 truly needed to change. The challenge was that the industry 0:09:43.836 --> 0:09:46.636 was not set up for a newcomer to enter, which. 0:09:46.436 --> 0:09:48.036 Is why there were no newcomers. 0:09:48.116 --> 0:09:48.236 Right. 0:09:50.636 --> 0:09:52.236 It's a high barrier to entry. 0:09:52.636 --> 0:09:56.596 But one of the things that really opened doors was 0:09:56.636 --> 0:10:01.356 that the national shutdown that we had from the FDA 0:10:01.676 --> 0:10:04.916 got public attention. And when I say public attention, it 0:10:04.956 --> 0:10:07.756 got more headlines than us launching the company. 0:10:08.556 --> 0:10:11.516 Right, it's great press. It's almost the case been shutting 0:10:11.516 --> 0:10:11.956 you down? 0:10:12.116 --> 0:10:12.356 Right? 0:10:12.836 --> 0:10:14.436 So did you find that? 0:10:14.476 --> 0:10:14.596 Like? 0:10:14.596 --> 0:10:14.676 So? 0:10:14.756 --> 0:10:17.156 Wait, so the FDA comes in, they basically shut you down, 0:10:17.196 --> 0:10:19.596 and then suddenly does everybody want to buy your formula 0:10:19.636 --> 0:10:20.836 that you could no longer sell? 0:10:21.356 --> 0:10:24.276 It was half and half. It was a lot of curiosity. 0:10:24.556 --> 0:10:27.076 A lot of curiosity was coming my way on just 0:10:27.396 --> 0:10:28.516 hold on, what happened? 0:10:28.596 --> 0:10:29.516 Why did this happen? 0:10:29.596 --> 0:10:33.036 And it started peaking people's interest for this, Maybe is 0:10:33.076 --> 0:10:34.396 an industry to pay attention to. 0:10:35.036 --> 0:10:35.676 And then you're right. 0:10:35.716 --> 0:10:38.236 The other side of it was, oh, my gosh, I 0:10:38.276 --> 0:10:40.316 want to get your formula. What can we do to help? 0:10:41.196 --> 0:10:43.756 And the peaking interest in the curiosity came from two 0:10:43.796 --> 0:10:45.996 different groups that helped me figure out what path I 0:10:46.036 --> 0:10:48.876 was going to go on. The first group was an investor, 0:10:49.276 --> 0:10:53.716 multiple investors, who saw what I was trying to do, 0:10:53.916 --> 0:10:56.796 saw the market opportunity and also how regulated it was, 0:10:57.076 --> 0:10:59.796 and called me and said, I really believe in what 0:10:59.836 --> 0:11:02.716 you're doing, and I think you have the persistence to 0:11:02.796 --> 0:11:03.356 keep going. 0:11:03.596 --> 0:11:07.076 Can I give you a few million dollars to keep going? Now? 0:11:07.076 --> 0:11:08.796 That was the kind of phone call you want when 0:11:08.836 --> 0:11:10.516 you're in the middle of an identity crisis, trying to 0:11:10.516 --> 0:11:11.196 figure out where to. 0:11:11.236 --> 0:11:13.316 Go, and when you just got shut down and know 0:11:13.396 --> 0:11:15.156 that you're not gonna have any revenue coming in the 0:11:15.196 --> 0:11:16.116 door for some time. 0:11:16.396 --> 0:11:18.796 Yeah, that's right, no revenue and yet a lot of 0:11:18.796 --> 0:11:21.756 capital to get to that next phase. The second phone 0:11:21.756 --> 0:11:25.356 call was the one that really sealed a deal. And 0:11:25.396 --> 0:11:28.276 that phone call was from the only and the one 0:11:29.116 --> 0:11:33.316 contract manufacturer that outside of the duopoly in the US 0:11:34.156 --> 0:11:38.596 makes infant formula for the country. And that phone call 0:11:38.876 --> 0:11:41.676 was a turning point because I tried for two years 0:11:41.756 --> 0:11:44.796 leading up to it for them to make my formula, 0:11:44.876 --> 0:11:46.996 and I was interesting. 0:11:47.396 --> 0:11:50.116 So this company, it's perrygo Am I saying it the 0:11:50.196 --> 0:11:53.116 right way. Err, I read it, so you're saying, and 0:11:53.236 --> 0:11:55.476 just to be clear, so they are a US manufacturer 0:11:55.476 --> 0:11:58.956 and they make lots of sort of generic formula, right 0:11:58.996 --> 0:12:01.676 like if you buy formula Costco or whatever, they make 0:12:01.716 --> 0:12:03.596 that formula. And you're saying you had been trying to 0:12:03.636 --> 0:12:07.436 get them to make your formulney and you were not 0:12:07.556 --> 0:12:11.796 worth their time. Basically, yes, they weren't really calls. We 0:12:11.796 --> 0:12:13.396 don't know what they were thinking, but we only know 0:12:13.436 --> 0:12:16.116 that they wouldn't return your calls. Yeah, correct, And then 0:12:16.156 --> 0:12:18.276 they called you. And then when this news came out, 0:12:18.316 --> 0:12:18.836 they called you. 0:12:19.636 --> 0:12:20.436 There you go, Jacob. 0:12:20.476 --> 0:12:23.436 That's exactly how it went down. And it's so funny 0:12:23.436 --> 0:12:25.116 when people are like, would you have done it differently? 0:12:25.116 --> 0:12:26.916 I'm like, that phone call wouldn't have come in. But 0:12:27.916 --> 0:12:30.316 keep in mind they also needed to change their business 0:12:30.316 --> 0:12:33.356 model as well, because they were used to making formula 0:12:33.476 --> 0:12:36.756 for store brands, and here I was, I had a 0:12:36.876 --> 0:12:39.756 unique formula and I wanted someone to make it. So 0:12:39.796 --> 0:12:42.356 that was also them going, huh, would we approach this 0:12:42.396 --> 0:12:45.916 differently and also take on a new incomer and do 0:12:46.196 --> 0:12:50.876 chaking on a new business model as well. So I'll 0:12:50.876 --> 0:12:53.636 never forget that call. And one of the most important 0:12:53.636 --> 0:12:56.916 things that hit me during that moment was there was 0:12:56.956 --> 0:12:58.876 a lot of support to be able to get us 0:12:58.916 --> 0:13:01.396 to the next level, not because they saw it as 0:13:01.436 --> 0:13:05.996 an opportunity, but because they saw how we handled the shutdown. 0:13:07.156 --> 0:13:10.116 And it is something I canntinue to remind the team 0:13:10.156 --> 0:13:12.436 of too. Turbulence may come very often, but it's how 0:13:12.476 --> 0:13:14.956 you handle that turbulence. And we handled it with a 0:13:15.036 --> 0:13:20.116 level of grace and managed our message and hung up 0:13:20.116 --> 0:13:22.276 our hat and said, yeah, this is how we approach 0:13:22.356 --> 0:13:24.796 the market. And it hasn't landed, so we're going to 0:13:24.796 --> 0:13:28.636 take a different path. And we weren't defensive, we didn't 0:13:28.636 --> 0:13:33.076 push back, we weren't defiant, and that landed, and that 0:13:33.196 --> 0:13:35.156 landed in a way that the respect that came from 0:13:35.196 --> 0:13:37.996 both investors and future manufacturers. 0:13:38.556 --> 0:13:42.196 It landed tell me, well, tell me how your formula 0:13:42.276 --> 0:13:45.196 is different than that, you know big formula brands in 0:13:45.196 --> 0:13:47.236 the christ country. 0:13:47.316 --> 0:13:51.596 So we've designed her based on and I refer to 0:13:51.636 --> 0:13:55.516 as as a her. We've designed her really inspired by 0:13:55.556 --> 0:13:58.276 European formula. So the first thing we did from a 0:13:58.316 --> 0:14:03.596 recipe standpoint was say, how are recipes designed for European 0:14:03.636 --> 0:14:06.076 infant formula? And that means you start to look at 0:14:06.116 --> 0:14:09.516 the levels. So we are the only infant formula that 0:14:09.676 --> 0:14:16.436 mirrors European nutritional standards. And put another way, there's no 0:14:16.676 --> 0:14:20.436 US infant formula where their recipe would pass the bar 0:14:21.196 --> 0:14:25.436 set for European infant formos. So that's the first thing 0:14:25.476 --> 0:14:27.716 the recipe. The second thing that makes us different is 0:14:27.756 --> 0:14:30.916 the choice of ingredients. We've chosen to leave out ingredients 0:14:31.036 --> 0:14:36.236 like corn syrup, use organic grass fed milk and not 0:14:36.356 --> 0:14:41.156 conventional milk, leave out palm oil, which is a leading 0:14:41.756 --> 0:14:46.036 ingredient towards constipation for a baby, So making it easier 0:14:46.076 --> 0:14:48.396 to digest by leaving out things like palm oil and 0:14:48.436 --> 0:14:52.356 putting in things like coconut oil. So between the choice 0:14:52.356 --> 0:14:57.596 of our fat blend ingredients and the recipe which mirrors 0:14:57.596 --> 0:15:02.076 European nutritional standards. That's ultimately the differentiator that we hang 0:15:02.116 --> 0:15:02.556 our hat on. 0:15:04.076 --> 0:15:09.436 So I have two kids and we gave them formula. 0:15:09.756 --> 0:15:11.556 We gave them. I think it was similar, just one 0:15:11.556 --> 0:15:17.156 of the big American brands, Like should I have given 0:15:17.196 --> 0:15:19.836 them some European style formula? Body didn't exist? But if 0:15:19.836 --> 0:15:21.556 it should I have done that instead? 0:15:21.996 --> 0:15:27.116 Absolutely not. Okay, and this, oh, I love that you're 0:15:27.156 --> 0:15:29.036 asking this because I always I always have a note 0:15:29.076 --> 0:15:30.956 by my desk to make sure that this is a 0:15:30.996 --> 0:15:35.036 reminder of something to repeat, because I don't believe that 0:15:35.036 --> 0:15:38.156 there is anything any such thing is a bad formula. 0:15:38.236 --> 0:15:40.876 And I truly mean that. And I don't just mean 0:15:40.916 --> 0:15:44.276 that because I want to make sure that people don't 0:15:44.316 --> 0:15:48.996 see Bobby as coming across as elite or differentiated that way. 0:15:49.116 --> 0:15:51.876 I truly believe that whatever. 0:15:51.556 --> 0:15:58.276 Product is both available affordable is the right formula for you, 0:15:58.516 --> 0:16:01.796 and your child will have the same chances as every 0:16:01.836 --> 0:16:05.436 other child out there, and I do I truly truly 0:16:05.476 --> 0:16:05.716 mean that. 0:16:05.716 --> 0:16:07.276 Well, that's a relief, thank you. 0:16:07.396 --> 0:16:11.036 I appreciate that your kids will be fabulous and they 0:16:11.076 --> 0:16:13.356 will have the same chances as everyone else. 0:16:13.396 --> 0:16:18.036 I'm a fan. So, I mean, there's something really interesting 0:16:18.076 --> 0:16:19.516 here and I've been trying to think of the right 0:16:19.556 --> 0:16:21.436 way to talk about it. Well, there's a few things. 0:16:21.436 --> 0:16:24.436 One let's just say MABBY is way more expensive than 0:16:25.716 --> 0:16:28.916 most formulas. Right, It's like a fancy, high end formula. 0:16:31.276 --> 0:16:35.876 And you're saying, it's not like gonna make my kids smarter, 0:16:36.076 --> 0:16:40.956 happier or whatever. So so what's the pitch. 0:16:41.916 --> 0:16:44.436 Yeah, yeah, it's it's a it's a great it's a 0:16:44.436 --> 0:16:47.876 great point to raise, and I'll like underscore again what 0:16:47.956 --> 0:16:51.516 I said. I believe parents need choices, not just choices 0:16:51.556 --> 0:16:53.636 when it comes to infra formula. I think across anything 0:16:53.676 --> 0:16:55.516 that people consume, there needs to be choices because you 0:16:55.596 --> 0:16:59.876 got preferences. Now, at the end of the day, milk 0:16:59.956 --> 0:17:02.876 is milk, but some parents, and I would be one 0:17:02.916 --> 0:17:05.556 of them, I want to make sure that the milk 0:17:05.596 --> 0:17:08.116 that I'm feeding them is preservative free. 0:17:08.676 --> 0:17:12.356 Organa grass fed, conventional dairy is. 0:17:12.356 --> 0:17:14.316 Still going to give you the nutrients your baby needs 0:17:14.356 --> 0:17:17.756 to grow and develop, but on a spectrum they are different. 0:17:18.716 --> 0:17:22.236 Now that's just using one example, and you can point 0:17:22.276 --> 0:17:27.916 to any industry where whether it's a fabric in the 0:17:27.956 --> 0:17:33.556 retail and clothing industry, or whether it's something within cosmetics 0:17:33.876 --> 0:17:37.636 where people choose to have something that is slightly richer 0:17:37.636 --> 0:17:40.196 in collagen than a moisturizer that doesn't at the end 0:17:40.236 --> 0:17:42.036 of the day, it is moisturizer and it's going to 0:17:42.036 --> 0:17:42.756 give you what you need. 0:17:43.316 --> 0:17:46.436 Yeah, my kids are now at the age where they're 0:17:46.476 --> 0:17:50.156 super into skincare, and so I appreciate that point too, 0:17:50.436 --> 0:17:54.636 because you see the different care well, you see the 0:17:54.636 --> 0:18:00.476 difference in price for sure. Exactly in a minute, we'll 0:18:00.516 --> 0:18:03.196 talk more about marketing in the biggest sense of the word, 0:18:03.556 --> 0:18:06.276 and also about what happened to Bobby during last year's 0:18:06.316 --> 0:18:17.916 big formula shortage. Now back to the show, So let's 0:18:17.916 --> 0:18:21.076 talk about Like, marketing is really interesting to me here, right, 0:18:21.636 --> 0:18:25.196 So let's talk about marketing, because you know there's one 0:18:25.596 --> 0:18:27.436 when I first started thinking about this, I was like, oh, 0:18:27.476 --> 0:18:30.596 maybe it's just marketing. But then like I objected to 0:18:30.636 --> 0:18:36.436 that word just right, because I feel like marketing is 0:18:36.436 --> 0:18:39.036 a big deal, right, Like whatever we tell ourselves stories 0:18:39.036 --> 0:18:45.036 in order to live, you know, Joan didon and just 0:18:45.036 --> 0:18:48.876 when you will look at look at say Simolac. I 0:18:48.916 --> 0:18:52.196 think we gave our kids Simolac a can of Simolac, 0:18:52.196 --> 0:18:54.956 one of the big brands, and then a can of Bobby. 0:18:55.076 --> 0:18:59.836 Like they're telling such different stories, right, Like Similac came 0:18:59.876 --> 0:19:03.236 out in what the nineteen fifties, right, this era of 0:19:03.316 --> 0:19:06.316 like better living through chemistry was kind of the you know, 0:19:06.356 --> 0:19:08.556 the fremailing belief. And when you look at Simolac, it 0:19:08.556 --> 0:19:12.476 looks like it looks very much like a medical product. 0:19:12.516 --> 0:19:15.756 It actually says number one brand fed in hospitals on 0:19:15.796 --> 0:19:18.796 the can, and there's like these acronym for some thing 0:19:18.876 --> 0:19:20.436 that I don't know what it is. And then you 0:19:20.476 --> 0:19:23.436 look at the Bobby can, it's like a line drawing 0:19:23.516 --> 0:19:27.076 of a cow, right, And like the biggest letters are organic, right, 0:19:27.116 --> 0:19:30.396 And so it's like one is medicine, science and then 0:19:30.396 --> 0:19:34.636 other was like nature cows. Am I reading that? 0:19:34.756 --> 0:19:34.956 Right? 0:19:34.996 --> 0:19:37.716 I mean is that part of sort of what you're selling. 0:19:38.716 --> 0:19:42.276 I like that you underscored that it's not just yeah. 0:19:42.436 --> 0:19:46.716 I really think that, especially because this is formula and breastfeeding. 0:19:46.756 --> 0:19:49.356 It's for which itself. Like when you look at the 0:19:49.396 --> 0:19:53.236 amount of narrative around breastfeeding versus formula versus the amount 0:19:53.276 --> 0:19:57.196 of science, like it's so much narrative, it's so much marketing. 0:19:57.276 --> 0:20:00.316 The sort of breastfeeding versus formula story, and and that 0:20:00.476 --> 0:20:06.276 story makes people, especially women in my experience, moms feel 0:20:06.356 --> 0:20:08.996 so bad when they can't breastfeed, right, And I feel 0:20:08.996 --> 0:20:12.596 like the marketing piece, the storytelling piece of what you're 0:20:12.636 --> 0:20:15.156 doing fits with that, right. 0:20:15.916 --> 0:20:19.156 It does. Look there's a huge universe out there. 0:20:19.196 --> 0:20:23.156 You're like, ah, whatever, I mean, it's all bs. People 0:20:23.156 --> 0:20:25.636 shouldn't be guilty about it. But it's hard for that 0:20:25.676 --> 0:20:27.636 person to really judge if you haven't been in the 0:20:27.636 --> 0:20:29.756 other person's shoes. Yeah, and there is going to be 0:20:29.796 --> 0:20:32.276 many people who will hear this, and we've been on 0:20:32.316 --> 0:20:35.516 the journey with them where in their postpartum state and 0:20:35.556 --> 0:20:38.556 in that state of is this right for my child? 0:20:38.636 --> 0:20:40.676 How am I feeling? Do I feel guilty? 0:20:41.356 --> 0:20:44.596 You grow up dreaming of breastfeeding and then you realize 0:20:44.596 --> 0:20:47.516 that you can only put out two ounces. That's heartbreaking. 0:20:47.636 --> 0:20:50.156 This is not like, Oh I chose that granola bar 0:20:50.276 --> 0:20:54.436 over this one. This is a completely different moment in life. 0:20:54.036 --> 0:20:58.516 And again, my job is to make sure that we 0:20:58.556 --> 0:21:04.276 play such a radically centrist position. Unfortunately, the war of 0:21:04.476 --> 0:21:06.716 breastfeeding versus formula got to a place where it was 0:21:06.716 --> 0:21:10.236 pretty bad, and I think we all need to start 0:21:10.276 --> 0:21:13.436 realizing that it's not about what your child is fed, 0:21:13.996 --> 0:21:16.276 that we need to just all accept how they're being 0:21:16.276 --> 0:21:19.116 fed and just say, your baby's being fed and that's 0:21:19.116 --> 0:21:22.716 a good thing. And we have to And that's the 0:21:22.796 --> 0:21:25.356 whole goal that I have in our messaging, is that 0:21:25.916 --> 0:21:28.196 you just need to feel good that you are feeding 0:21:28.196 --> 0:21:30.516 your child something, to be proud of that, whatever it 0:21:30.556 --> 0:21:32.716 is for you. And by the way, some other parents 0:21:32.716 --> 0:21:34.996 who doesn't need that message might be totally fine and 0:21:34.996 --> 0:21:37.756 proud of whatever they've chosen to feed their child. And 0:21:37.796 --> 0:21:39.956 there should be no shame, no pointing fingers, and we 0:21:39.996 --> 0:21:44.796 need to accept that. And I am very, very proud 0:21:45.116 --> 0:21:48.756 to not look at our branding, our marketing as a 0:21:48.916 --> 0:21:53.996 sales tool, but rather as a culture changer. And again 0:21:54.196 --> 0:21:55.956 I know that there's going to be and there has 0:21:56.036 --> 0:21:59.996