Speaker 1: Good evening, I'm Greg Cochran, Good evening, I'm Stuart Stubbs.
Speaker 1: We are a couple of journalists who've been working in
Speaker 1: independent music since the days of my Space.
Speaker 2: One night a week, we become your guides through the
Speaker 2: week in music, because, let's face it, the algorithms have
Speaker 2: stopped working for most of us.
Speaker 1: So we're here to share the best new underground music
Speaker 1: and the news that you might have missed, as well
Speaker 1: as discussing the week's biggest headlines and bringing you interviews
Speaker 1: with some of our favorite alternative artists.
Speaker 2: The show is called Midnight Chats.
Speaker 1: Tonight. Everything we're talking about on this podcast is related
Speaker 1: to live music. Had you noticed this? I hadn't clocked that,
Speaker 1: stud No, but that's exciting it is. Do you want
Speaker 1: to talk about you going to a sexy club in
Speaker 1: Amsterdam now? Or shall we build up to it?
Speaker 2: No, let's just go straight there, shall we?
Speaker 1: Okay? What was the name of the club? Again?
Speaker 2: I'll give you a little bit and everybody listening, little
Speaker 2: bit of context.
Speaker 1: I think in these contexts you went to let's call
Speaker 1: it a sex club in Holland. That's all where anyone
Speaker 1: needs to know.
Speaker 2: Okay, Fine, I'm feeling very sleepy tonight as we as
Speaker 2: we record this year, because I've just come back from
Speaker 2: Amsterdam from AD which is the Amsterdam Dance Event, which
Speaker 2: is just absolutely massive, incredible, something like five hundred thousand visitors,
Speaker 2: two hundred venues, I think a thousand events across like
Speaker 2: four nights as the festival. It is a big deal.
Speaker 2: But yes, what you're referring to is that on Friday
Speaker 2: night I did go to a club called sexy land World,
Speaker 2: which is doesn't it turns out it's not just a
Speaker 2: brilliant name for a club, but is a brilliant club.
Speaker 2: Like some people might have been there, it's a bit
Speaker 2: of it's pretty legendary I think in the city and
Speaker 2: on the scene, like a three floor club on the
Speaker 2: north of the river in Amsterdam, and a friend of
Speaker 2: ours was DJing and it was brilliant. Had a great time.
Speaker 2: But yes, it was as much fun to tell everybody
Speaker 2: that you've been to sexy land World and to look
Speaker 2: at your banking app the next morning and go, oh,
Speaker 2: I spent some money in sexy land World, and.
Speaker 1: A lot of money at sexy land World. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's an incredible name for a club. It's always been
Speaker 1: called sexy Land World, has it?
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know if it's always been called
Speaker 2: sexy Land World, but it's interesting.
Speaker 1: That they added the world on. I didn't just call
Speaker 1: it sexy Land. They've gone sexy Land and they've gone
Speaker 1: that's not quite enough. We need something else there. World.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the world is making it, to
Speaker 1: be honest, it's a sexy Land World, is it? What?
Speaker 1: What type of music are were they playing in sexy
Speaker 1: Land World?
Speaker 2: A lot of e funk on that night, which was
Speaker 2: a bit of a new discovery for me because basically
Speaker 2: ade is I mean, not only is it every form
Speaker 2: of dance music that you can possibly think of, but
Speaker 2: in recent years obviously you know, you've got everything from
Speaker 2: like hip hop to you know, to the grime to
Speaker 2: whatever as well. It's it's a lot of stuff. But
Speaker 2: on that particularly night, yeah, they're playing efunk. One of
Speaker 2: the j's was soul Claps, so yeah, it was just
Speaker 2: it was like good vibes, like up up vibes in there.
Speaker 2: It wasn't like there was other stuff that I saw
Speaker 2: over the weekend, which was you know, like Eastern European psych,
Speaker 2: trance and like some really hard techno. But yeah, it
Speaker 2: turns out I do like stuff with a melody, particularly
Speaker 2: particularly at like five o'clock in the afternoon. It was
Speaker 2: brilliant and it's a bit different. Normally I'd be watching
Speaker 2: Gladiators on a Saturday tea time, eating of twigs.
Speaker 1: So heavy weekends for you, heavy weekend.
Speaker 2: Quite well, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a bit. That's
Speaker 2: probably explains what my voice sounds a little bit fractured.
Speaker 1: If I can use the term that everybody says these days,
Speaker 1: I love that for.
Speaker 2: You, Greg, Thanks ju big recommend for a d if
Speaker 2: anybody ever gets a chance to go. By the way,
Speaker 2: Just before we started record, I sent you some some pictures,
Speaker 2: some some artworks that I visited Wels was in Amsterdam.
Speaker 1: Yes, what did you what did you think of it?
Speaker 1: What is this an artist? Who is this person?
Speaker 2: So like a couple of hours before I basically, of course,
Speaker 2: you know you've got we've got two hours in Amsterdam
Speaker 2: before we got go and get a train home. What
Speaker 2: what do you do to what? What I mean, what
Speaker 2: what would you do?
Speaker 1: I'd rather not say.
Speaker 2: It's not illegal in amsterdamn Well, I obviously went to
Speaker 2: go and see Robbie Williams's debut R exhibition at the.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my god.
Speaker 2: But the thing is, I thought i'd send it to you,
Speaker 2: and I thought you were going to say, what did
Speaker 2: you think of it?
Speaker 1: You quite?
Speaker 2: You're going to say you quite liked it, didn't you.
Speaker 1: I thought it was My opinion has been has changed
Speaker 1: now now that I know who made it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: thought it was Okay, I surprised that I was telling
Speaker 1: me it's Robbie Williams. Robbie Williams actually made that art. Okay,
Speaker 1: we need to put a link in. Yeah, we can
Speaker 1: see some of this stuff as well. Yeah, Robby Williams
Speaker 1: has got two exhibitions going at the moment. One is
Speaker 1: in Amsterdam, I think the other one is somewhere in Spain.
Speaker 1: But it turns out that he's quite a prolific contemporary
Speaker 1: artist and is like they were all from last year.
Speaker 1: So you're in Amsterdam, Yeah, where there is the Van
Speaker 1: Koff Museum, a world famous museum.
Speaker 2: I see all of the Dutch masters. If I wanted to,
Speaker 2: it was right there, but no, I chose Williams.
Speaker 1: Robbie, what made you? What made you? What made you
Speaker 1: do this? What did you take away? From the artwork.
Speaker 2: Well, it was. It was a happy accident because I
Speaker 2: went to the Museum of Contemporary Art and it just
Speaker 2: happened that there was a visiting exhibition by Robbie Williams.
Speaker 2: I didn't deliberately go there just to see. I wasn't like,
Speaker 2: I mean, Amsterdam, I've got to go and see Robbie's work,
Speaker 2: but the actual arts it so we'll, like you say,
Speaker 2: we'll put a link in the show notes. But it's
Speaker 2: like kind of really darkly funny because it's all about
Speaker 2: his mental health. And yeah, it's possibly not what people
Speaker 2: who expect. Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1: Did you enjoy it? Did you think it was?
Speaker 2: Was it good? Yeah? I didn't enjoy it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And did you did you read all the blurbs
Speaker 1: like about the pieces to find out what they were about?
Speaker 2: The blurbs were quite short. Yeah, yeah. And then I
Speaker 2: went upstairs and saw some Banksy So it was like
Speaker 2: Robbie Williams was hanging next to you know, Kusamo and
Speaker 2: Banksy and Basque. Wow. And you've been out and about
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: I have. I went to a few shows. I've been
Speaker 1: at the Barbercane. This weekend, I went to see two shows.
Speaker 1: Just by coincidence, they both happen to be at the
Speaker 1: Barbercane here in London. Two crackers, though. I went to
Speaker 1: see Nala Sinofro on Friday night, who, for those who
Speaker 1: don't know, is a sort of cosmic jazz musician, plays
Speaker 1: the harp but also has electronics going on. Has a
Speaker 1: great band playing a lot of electronic instruments, also saxophonist, drummer.
Speaker 1: That was a beautiful sort of Lets all sit in
Speaker 1: the dark and just drift away. Then I was back
Speaker 1: there the following afternoon for a matinee show.
Speaker 2: Oh everyone loves a matinee show, right mate. Love a
Speaker 2: very west end of each stud.
Speaker 1: When you see Caroline Rose, they were playing with a
Speaker 1: eight piece orchestra. Incredible. They cried multiple times during the
Speaker 1: during it. Have you ever been to a show where
Speaker 1: somebody is just the performer has broken down. It's been
Speaker 1: a bit too much for them.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, all right, not that I can recall. I've definitely
Speaker 2: cried plenty of times at gigs and I know you
Speaker 2: have you you it's a rarity for you not to cry.
Speaker 1: I'm always crying at shows, especially outdoor shows. This was indoors.
Speaker 1: Caroline Rose was amazing. Yeah, got got quite emotional. Great
Speaker 1: you know, great crowd support, everybody on her side. Great shows.
Speaker 1: So we've both had a lovely time in the last
Speaker 1: few days with some live music. But whilst we've been
Speaker 1: doing that, there has been other stuff going on in
Speaker 1: the world of music. Obviously, my Chemical Romance played the
Speaker 1: Black Parade for the first time in seventeen years. Stu,
Speaker 1: I know that you were desperate to be there. Jeff Lynn,
Speaker 1: obviously of Yellow, has announced the final Yellow Show because
Speaker 1: he's basically brought that whole thing back like ten years ago, hasn't.
Speaker 1: He has played loads of shows this past decade, but
Speaker 1: it's going to be there's one more. It's going to
Speaker 1: happen in London next summer at Hyde Park. There's only
Speaker 1: one more chance. If you do want to go and
Speaker 1: see those Elo classics being played live by jeff Lyn,
Speaker 1: you've got to go to that. Did you see this
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell stuff like that happened over the weekend in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles? So Joni Mitchell is eighty now right, and
Speaker 1: I kind of, like, I think, like everybody else, assumed
Speaker 1: that Joni Mitchell probably would never play any more shows again.
Speaker 1: But she has done like a sort of sprinkling of
Speaker 1: stuff the last couple of years. But the week she
Speaker 1: played two shows at Hollywood Bowl in Los Angeles, seventeen
Speaker 1: thousand people a night along with this sort of all
Speaker 1: star cast band ranging from everyone from like Brandy to
Speaker 1: Carlisle through to Marcus Mumford and Robin Packnell from Fleet
Speaker 1: Foxes to play some Joni Mitchell songs that some of
Speaker 1: the songs she's not played live for like thirty years.
Speaker 1: Do you know how this came about? Joni Jams? Backstory
Speaker 1: to this. In twenty fifteen, Jenni Mitchell suffered from an
Speaker 1: anneurism that was very nearly fatal, and while she was
Speaker 1: been recovering from that, she started having people round to
Speaker 1: her house in bel Air as part of her recovery
Speaker 1: to play music. And they were called Joni Jams. And
Speaker 1: she'd have these friends and some of them very you know,
Speaker 1: famous musicians in LA and from around the LA area
Speaker 1: or when they were in town, had come to Jonie's
Speaker 1: house and they'd play songs and it was part of
Speaker 1: her rehabilitation from having this aneurysm. And then in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two, she unannounced played at the Newport Fouestival. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and took some of these musicians. I actually was in
Speaker 1: LA earlier this year when the Grammys were on, and
Speaker 1: she performed at the Grammys with this same band that,
Speaker 1: as you say, involves Jacob Collier and John Vastis is
Speaker 1: in the band.
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say, when you were
Speaker 2: in LA earlier this year, you went and jammed with
Speaker 2: Jenny Mitchell.
Speaker 1: I did. I don't think I would be getting into
Speaker 1: the Joni jam. But it is incredible that she survived this,
Speaker 1: you know, very severe aneurysm, and now she's back playing
Speaker 1: at the Hollywood Bowl. She played for three hours. As
Speaker 1: you say, she played loads and loads of deep cuts,
Speaker 1: which I imagine sort of pissed off a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Very Joni Mitchell moved, That, isn't it. Yeah, But yeah,
Speaker 1: the people she had on was amazing. Jacob Collier's an
Speaker 1: interesting one, I think because he's like, I don't know
Speaker 1: what your feelings are on Jacob Collier, but he's a
Speaker 1: lot of people might not know who this guy is.
Speaker 1: He's a British guy. He's won six Grammys. I think
Speaker 1: he could walk into most rooms and nobody would necessarily
Speaker 1: recognize him, but he's he's a huge talent. He wears
Speaker 1: a lot of very primary colors. He's the guy who's
Speaker 1: going to be He's the guy who's going to be
Speaker 1: wearing yellow crocs until he's dead. You know, like lots
Speaker 1: of just primary colors. It's quite wacky. He looks a
Speaker 1: bit like Jamie Cullen, but he does everything. He like produces,
Speaker 1: he plays every instrument or all of these things. And
Speaker 1: now he's in Joni Mitchell's band with all these other musicians.
Speaker 1: Marcus Munford up there as you say, he performed California
Speaker 1: with her. Yeah, what an amazing thing. If you're if
Speaker 1: you're if you get welcomed into that world of a
Speaker 1: Joni jam and now you're playing it live. I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe there'd be more shows, maybe there won't. Just one
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to say about the Black Parade in
Speaker 1: full that you mentioned that was played at a festival
Speaker 1: called When We Were Young in Vegas. And that's a
Speaker 1: bizarre festival, isn't it, Because that's a music festival where
Speaker 1: every single act on the bill this year at least
Speaker 1: played an old album in four So Mike chemic Romance,
Speaker 1: Mike im rom they played the whole of Black Parade,
Speaker 1: but I thought, oh, okay, yeah, but then the rest
Speaker 1: of the stuff on there will just be bands playing
Speaker 1: what songs they want. But the whole thing is so
Speaker 1: shamelessly about nostalgia, which is why it's called When We
Speaker 1: Were Young, which I love about it. They're just leaning
Speaker 1: into it. Every artist on that bill just played a
Speaker 1: classic album. So Nada serv played, They just played the
Speaker 1: whole of Let's Go, Jimmy World played, and they played
Speaker 1: Bleed American and on and on. It weren't like to
Speaker 1: have seen that. I think it's just a it's just
Speaker 1: a brilliantly very open way of saying, look, people want
Speaker 1: the hits. Everyone's old. The only people that can have
Speaker 1: to come to these shows and pay for festival gigs
Speaker 1: are now late thirties, forties, fifties. They just want to
Speaker 1: come on, let's just get the get the old stuff.
Speaker 1: And it's great. I think that these bands turn up
Speaker 1: and they just they lean into it, they go for it,
Speaker 1: and they say, no, listen, I'm we're still a relevant band.
Speaker 1: We want to play what we want to play. They
Speaker 1: all just go, okay, fine, we'll just play something. There's
Speaker 1: one in La as well as in there called Just
Speaker 1: Like Heaven, which is also a big nostalgia trip that's
Speaker 1: more of an indie indie vibe. But I quite like it.
Speaker 1: Would you like to go to a festival where it's
Speaker 1: just all all the oldies or would it make you
Speaker 1: feel a bit sad?
Speaker 2: I I as last week on the podcast as I
Speaker 2: completely shame myself when we were talking about like that.
Speaker 2: I don't know the lyrics to any famous songs, even
Speaker 2: my favorite ones.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I rarely put on old music, so I don't mind. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if I was gonna be a group of friends or something,
Speaker 2: I'm sure it'd have like an absolutely brilliant time. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: You're there for the new stuff.
Speaker 2: I'm there for the new stuff, man. Yeah. Yeah, But
Speaker 2: there was something that happened this week that really piqued
Speaker 2: your interest. Wasn't it a story about the Pretenders?
Speaker 1: Yes? So this is a story that came and went
Speaker 1: over the weekend very quickly due to the band posting
Speaker 1: something on their socials. It got quite a lot of
Speaker 1: stick in a very short amount of time from that fans,
Speaker 1: and it seems like they've removed that post from that
Speaker 1: Instagram account where it's originally posts. This was something that
Speaker 1: Chrissy Hein put online and we'll have a few ads now,
Speaker 1: but and we'll come back and talk about this. But
Speaker 1: the long and short of it was that she posted
Speaker 1: online to say to her fans who are die hard
Speaker 1: fans who travel around and follow the band around and
Speaker 1: are at every gig, we love you coming to the gigs,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for the support, but can you
Speaker 1: please stop standing right at the front. Can you give
Speaker 1: local people who have not been able to tour around
Speaker 1: the world of us or follow us as much have
Speaker 1: their moment at their local show and stand in front
Speaker 1: of the gig. It did not go down well. It
Speaker 1: didn't split the crowd, Greg, it went down badly.
Speaker 2: Let's go to some adverts and what some people have
Speaker 2: to say about this. Welcome back to midnight Chats. As
Speaker 2: ste was just saying there before the break, there was
Speaker 2: this very interesting story unfolding over the past few days.
Speaker 2: The Pretender's legendary British rock band posted something on their
Speaker 2: social media saying basically, we're grateful to you, those diehard
Speaker 2: fans that follow us around the world, around the country
Speaker 2: to these different shows and show up and support us,
Speaker 2: but can we let the locals come to the front
Speaker 2: of the gig so that they can have their opportunity
Speaker 2: to come to the front. And also, what I thought
Speaker 2: was really interesting is the sort of reasoning of this
Speaker 2: thing was basically, when we go on tour, the whole
Speaker 2: point of it for a band is that we're playing
Speaker 2: to a different audience every night and so. And they
Speaker 2: also went on to say, don't be offended if we
Speaker 2: request that you move out of the front row. This
Speaker 2: is what keeps it new for us. There's th STU.
Speaker 2: What did What was the response like, if you got
Speaker 2: didn't like it went down?
Speaker 1: Well? It did not go down. Well. This story has
Speaker 1: introduced me to a new term that I don't know about.
Speaker 1: Do you know that. Have you come across the term
Speaker 1: rail riders?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: See, I hadn't come across this either. And I was
Speaker 1: talking to somebody that the weekend about this story and
Speaker 1: they use the term rail rider, and I thought that meant, oh, right,
Speaker 1: because people are catching trains to the gigs. Is it about?
Speaker 1: Is it a train thing? A rail rider is somebody
Speaker 1: who's on the barrier at the gig, that's that stood
Speaker 1: on the rail. I would always call out the barrier,
Speaker 1: you know, the crash barrier. But yeah, the stage and
Speaker 1: the stage and the fans. If you're someone that stands
Speaker 1: on the rail, you're called a rail rider if you
Speaker 1: do it repeatedly. Right, So that's a new term to me.
Speaker 1: I'm glad it's new to you, because I felt foolish
Speaker 1: for thinking it was about trains. People didn't like this
Speaker 1: at all. The fans underneath that post went into it.
Speaker 1: I mean that they were typically all around this. I'll
Speaker 1: read one, I'll read a couple, but this is the
Speaker 1: tone of all of them. Essentially, this is so disrespectful
Speaker 1: to faithful fans, as you're basically telling them they bore
Speaker 1: you seeing them so often, even though you wouldn't have
Speaker 1: a crowd to perform in front of if it wasn't
Speaker 1: for them. This is horrendous. That's what somebody said. Somebody
Speaker 1: who's maybe not a fan but have sympathized with the
Speaker 1: fans have said, quote, please don't be offended if we
Speaker 1: request you moved out of the front row. Imagine security
Speaker 1: coming up to you and being like your favorite artist
Speaker 1: doesn't want you to look at your face and please
Speaker 1: fuck off to the back.
Speaker 2: Oh man, Okay, so if we're try and look at
Speaker 2: this from like the bandview and the fanview and just
Speaker 2: sort of have a think about that, the band is saying, like,
Speaker 2: the whole reason we go on tour is so that
Speaker 2: because every night is different, we get to play to
Speaker 2: different people, Like, that's the reason. They they say, that's
Speaker 2: the reason we do it. So you can't argue that's
Speaker 2: that's that's the way they feel, So you can't really
Speaker 2: argue with that. They say that's their motivation for getting
Speaker 2: out on the road and still playing shows forty five
Speaker 2: years into their career is because they get to see
Speaker 2: different faces, different vibe in the venue every night, different
Speaker 2: people singing the words back to them, etc. So there's that.
Speaker 2: So is that that's valid? Do you think?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: I think that's I mean, I think it probably would
Speaker 1: be quite strange to be a band. At every stage
Speaker 1: you walk on too in a different town, they are
Speaker 1: the same faces looking back at you. Hmmm. I think
Speaker 1: that would just be quite strange. Like, in some ways,
Speaker 1: I'm sure it would be lovely because there would be
Speaker 1: you'd be like, oh, there's John and there's Sally, Hi, guys.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it'd be like, oh, there's
Speaker 1: John and Sally again. Yeah, like I understand it from
Speaker 1: that point of view, but I do understand the fans
Speaker 1: a lot of the people. Was another thing that people
Speaker 1: said in the comments was if the local fans, if
Speaker 1: you're fans, it's it's it's basically first come, first serve.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: If they can queue up just as early and come
Speaker 1: and run to the front, they can camp overnight if
Speaker 1: they want to, like I have. Obviously it is different
Speaker 1: for different people. Some people can't necessarily do that, but essentially,
Speaker 1: in terms of fairness, if you've bought a standing ticket,
Speaker 1: the earlier EUQ, the furthest forward you can get and
Speaker 1: that's the that's the game, isn't it. And I also
Speaker 1: understand them being like, fuck you man, I've flown from
Speaker 1: Turkey to London say to see you because I love
Speaker 1: you so much, and now you're saying I can't stand
Speaker 1: at the front, Like it's a bit of a kick
Speaker 1: in the face, isn't it?
Speaker 2: Okay? So is there any way So if we're saying
Speaker 2: like the pretender's feelings on this are valid, we're saying
Speaker 2: like we get it, when the fans might be like,
Speaker 2: hang on, that doesn't seem right. Is there is it?
Speaker 2: Was it? Just? Is it a simple case that like
Speaker 2: the way that they said this was wrong? Is there
Speaker 2: a way of doing it? Because I'm I'm not sure
Speaker 2: because that the way they did it was quite softly,
Speaker 2: softly of saying please please don't like we really appreciate you,
Speaker 2: Please don't be offended if we do, ask like if
Speaker 2: other people can come to the front of the show
Speaker 2: to you know, so that we can see them. I don't.
Speaker 2: I can't think of a way putting that across. Oh,
Speaker 2: you can't communicating that that doesn't somehow offend somebody.
Speaker 1: And I think that's probably why they've taken it down.
Speaker 1: I think they thought, Okay.
Speaker 2: We tried and it was snowballing, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And they just thought we, you know, we tried,
Speaker 1: We've put a point across. It's not gone down. Well,
Speaker 1: we're not going to change their minds. Let's not upset
Speaker 1: people over it. We should just sort of backtrack a
Speaker 1: little bit and just bury it and hope it goes away.
Speaker 1: Have you ever been a rail rider. I've never been
Speaker 1: a rail rider.
Speaker 2: I've never like sure, i've seen artists play like I've
Speaker 2: been to see certain artists play multiple times, but I've
Speaker 2: never followed an artist around on tour, Like, I've never
Speaker 2: gone from one show to another to another anything like that,
Speaker 2: have you no?
Speaker 1: And when I saw this story, like my gut reaction
Speaker 1: was to defend the band, right, And that's only because
Speaker 1: I'm not someone that has followed a band around. To me,
Speaker 1: that doesn't appeal to me because I actually go the
Speaker 1: other way. And when I see a band that I
Speaker 1: really love, and especially if I see them be brilliant,
Speaker 1: I don't really want to see them that much again
Speaker 1: because I just think, let's just leave that as perfect.
Speaker 1: But I do understand the appeal of it from fans
Speaker 1: who have a real community group. I'm too miserable to
Speaker 1: be a rail rider because you have to be friends
Speaker 1: with the other fans. But that's whole part. That's part
Speaker 1: of it. You go to the show and you're and
Speaker 1: you see the next person on the next stop and
Speaker 1: you say, oh, did you did you catch last year?
Speaker 1: What do you think of last week's show? And it's
Speaker 1: all part of extreme fandom, And so I can see
Speaker 1: why they feel hurt by it by it, because you know,
Speaker 1: it's a huge, huge part of their lives. But I've
Speaker 1: never done it myself. I've been at the front. I
Speaker 1: have been on the rail. As I now know it's
Speaker 1: called the barrier, I would call it for shows, you know.
Speaker 1: But I do also imagine that it's quite you know,
Speaker 1: when you're at the front a gig, it does get
Speaker 1: there is a good community spirit down the front of
Speaker 1: a show, but it is also quite competitive, and I
Speaker 1: wonder if that's what the band are getting at as well.
Speaker 1: It's like we you know, we love you all, but
Speaker 1: to them, there's no such thing as somebody liking the
Speaker 1: band more than anybody else, you know, just because you've
Speaker 1: seen the band of th times on every stop of
Speaker 1: the tour. If there's one person that's only just been
Speaker 1: able to see the band for the first time, then
Speaker 1: they are just as much a fan, you know, or
Speaker 1: they can be just as much a fan as you are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this sort of seems to have come this year.
Speaker 2: The conversation around like boundaries for artists and fans and
Speaker 2: like toxic fandom and all these things that we've heard
Speaker 2: lots about seems to have risen right to the top.
Speaker 2: Hasn't it, like you've had chapel rowan sort of pulling
Speaker 2: out of gigs, saying that, like, she needs to protect
Speaker 2: her mental health because things have just been on total overload,
Speaker 2: and she's you know, been really quite vocal about how
Speaker 2: she wants to be able to sort of preserve her
Speaker 2: mental health and her sanity by just having certain boundaries
Speaker 2: with her fans. You know. Understandably, you have people saying like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: they're ungrateful or they're not kind of like responding to
Speaker 2: us in a respectful manner, and you've got other supporters
Speaker 2: saying like, well, you know, it's totally fine, Like you
Speaker 2: might be a pop star and you might make a
Speaker 2: living out of affectively talking about your life, writing, you know,
Speaker 2: making art about your most kind of personal elements of
Speaker 2: who you are. But it's still it's still neat. People
Speaker 2: still need boundaries still. People are still human beings, right,
Speaker 2: and so this conversation just seems to keep growing and growing.
Speaker 1: I think yeah, and I think, you know, obviously this
Speaker 1: is a very obvious thing to say. Clackson Alert. Social
Speaker 1: media is obviously just accelerated, or wasn't it, because people
Speaker 1: feel that they are they know the band, they're connected
Speaker 1: to the band. We did a cover feature for the
Speaker 1: magazine last year with Boy Genius, and they have some
Speaker 1: extremely hardcore fans, and they spoke in that interview that
Speaker 1: we did with them about how sort of dicey it
Speaker 1: can get and that it's not always lovely to get
Speaker 1: back to your hotel and there's a group of people
Speaker 1: there who know you, who have tracked you down, who
Speaker 1: know where you're staying, have found out that information, and
Speaker 1: suddenly they're like, I'm not sure I feel safe. And
Speaker 1: they were saying, you know that fans will be, oh,
Speaker 1: it's okay, you're safe because we protect you, and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: but are we safe from you? You know, we don't
Speaker 1: know who you are. You are strangers, we don't know
Speaker 1: each other. And in was it last year when Doja
Speaker 1: Cat really upset her audience because she's extremely outspoken, And
Speaker 1: when I saw this thing from the Pretenders, I started
Speaker 1: to think of other musicians that have really upset their
Speaker 1: fans and Doja Cat did, I think last year when
Speaker 1: she sort of slagged off very openly her fans who
Speaker 1: started calling themselves as a group the kittens. Right, she's
Speaker 1: Doja Cat, We're going to be the kittens. And sometimes
Speaker 1: it was spelt with zed and sometimes it was not
Speaker 1: with his ZA, and she put on threads at the time,
Speaker 1: if you call yourself a kitten or fucking kittens with
Speaker 1: a ZED, that means you need to get off your
Speaker 1: phone and get a job and help your parents with
Speaker 1: the house. She then went on to say when a
Speaker 1: fan and came back and said, yeah, but you do
Speaker 1: love us, so don't you. We're your fans, you do
Speaker 1: love us, And she said I don't because I don't
Speaker 1: even know y'all. Then she called them all creepy as fuck.
Speaker 1: Now it's one way to go. She lost nearly two
Speaker 1: hundred thousand fans on followers on Instagram doing that. The
Speaker 1: pretenders haven't gone that far. They've just put up this thing,
Speaker 1: and they've noticed key, they've noticed when, okay, this could
Speaker 1: go badly for us, and let's take it down. Talking
Speaker 1: of those hardcore kittens with Z or without a Z.
Speaker 1: Can I test you on some of the other groups then,
Speaker 1: like the fan groups what they call groups? Yeah, what
Speaker 1: they're called? And then so for example, Taylor Swift has
Speaker 1: the Swifties. Yes, okay, so I'll give you the artist's
Speaker 1: name and you give me the group name. I think
Speaker 1: I think you're going to be good at this. Go on,
Speaker 1: you can redeem yourself from last week. What are Harry
Speaker 1: Styles fans called? Oh the harassers, that would be brilliant. No,
Speaker 1: it's not the harassers. It's just the Harries. It's really really,
Speaker 1: really really rubbish, isn't it. What about Charlie XX think
Speaker 1: logically she's the Brats. No, No, that's too new, isn't it.
Speaker 1: This is like from years ago, Charlie. It could be
Speaker 1: the brats now the angels Charlie's angels of course. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you get it.
Speaker 2: No, I get it. I'm just not very good at it.
Speaker 2: Lady Gaga, Oh little monsters. Yeah, you're a little monster,
Speaker 2: a little monster from the start. I have you've got
Speaker 2: the tattoo?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: What about Lizzo?
Speaker 2: Oh I do know?
Speaker 1: Is brilliant? The Lisbians?
Speaker 2: Well they're called Lisbians. Yeah it's so good. That's good,
Speaker 2: isn't it. That's really good.
Speaker 1: Ed Sheerans is the cherios Cheerios? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Noah, not having that super nav.
Speaker 1: And there's another one that you will definitely know that
Speaker 1: if you were a fan of the Twilight soccer as
Speaker 1: I know you were, you were a twy hard.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they were twenty highs, weren't they so, given
Speaker 2: that you were about to launch your pop career. Let's
Speaker 2: just fast forward to the end of twenty twenty five
Speaker 2: and you are playing stadiums. What are your what's your
Speaker 2: fan base called your Stuart Stubbs international pop star the.
Speaker 4: Stubbers, the Stubbers, the Stubbers, Stubbers, the Stubbers, the Stubbers.
Speaker 1: There was there was a boy I went to school
Speaker 1: with called Tarrent Hodson real name, and the bus going
Speaker 1: to and from school, on the back of some of
Speaker 1: the seats would be a cigarette stubber because it was
Speaker 1: the nineties and it said Stubbor on it, and when
Speaker 1: he saw it said that he would just shower. Stop
Speaker 1: a stop. Its triggering, It's quite triggering talking about.
Speaker 2: This, okay, talking about barriers. Yeah, listen, stew I've got
Speaker 2: a hell of a I've got a hell of a
Speaker 2: top three for you this week. Really excited to spring
Speaker 2: this and.
Speaker 1: It's going to be some revenge coming down.
Speaker 2: I think so. I think so. And we also before
Speaker 2: we go tonight, we're going to leave you with some
Speaker 2: recommendations with our Beat the Algorithm regular and we're going
Speaker 2: to give you our hot tips of what you should
Speaker 2: be listening to. But first let's get these adverts.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to all of Midnight Chats. Were Wolves.
Speaker 2: All are were wolves out there?
Speaker 1: Like that? That's that's our name, that's our fans names
Speaker 1: the were wolves. Well you like it? I do like it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Whatever kind of do you want to.
Speaker 1: Give us a quick quick were wolf cry?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we are at Midnight Chats Pod on Instagram
Speaker 3: if you want to film yourself and send us you
Speaker 3: do an impression of a were wolves and we'll.
Speaker 2: Play them on next week's podcast. Oh thanks for all
Speaker 2: of our were wolves tell you what? Yeah? Though, can
Speaker 2: we just say from the outset, like Stuart and I
Speaker 2: have very respectful boundaries, So whilst we appreciate all of
Speaker 2: your you don't have any boundaries.
Speaker 1: Now. I would love to go back to a hotel
Speaker 1: and have a group of fans there telling me that
Speaker 1: I'm safe.
Speaker 2: Nothing would give me more anxiety. Now, listen, last week
Speaker 2: we did our top three. We do it every week
Speaker 2: on Midnight Chats and quite frankly, I had an absolute shocker.
Speaker 2: You can go and see the clip on Midnight Chats
Speaker 2: Pod at Midnight Chats Pod on social media if you
Speaker 2: want to relive that complete disaster, which means that it's
Speaker 2: your turn this week, Stu. I've got a top three
Speaker 2: for you. Given that we've been talking about live music,
Speaker 2: everything's been sort of live music orientated. Tonight on the podcast,
Speaker 2: I've got a real I've got a live music classic
Speaker 2: for you. So Stu, your top three tonight. I would
Speaker 2: like to know the top three legendary stroke classic gigs
Speaker 2: that you wish that you were at across the course
Speaker 2: of music history. So maybe that was Woodstock in nineteen
Speaker 2: sixty nine, could have been led Zeppelin at the O
Speaker 2: two when they reformed, could have been Limp Biscuit at
Speaker 2: the Leeds Cockpit. It's up to you. I want to
Speaker 2: know the top three classic legendary gigs that you wish
Speaker 2: that you were at.
Speaker 1: Okay, i think I've got them.
Speaker 2: Boom go On, hit Me number one.
Speaker 1: Bowie at the Amaswift, Apollo retiring, Ziggy star Dust when
Speaker 1: everybody thought that when he said this is it, we're done,
Speaker 1: and everyone thought he was retiring, but he was just retiring.
Speaker 1: The character to have been there would have just been good.
Speaker 1: When that's a great dinner anecdote. Yeah, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: how good to show was I imagine it was great,
Speaker 1: but like it's more about the historic moment. I would
Speaker 1: also love to have been at the Monterey Jazz and
Speaker 1: Pop Festival in sixty seven. Was it when Hendrix sets
Speaker 1: fire to the guitar? Yeah, with the light of fluid,
Speaker 1: Because also to have seen Jimmy Hendrix's life would have
Speaker 1: just been incredible. And well, I did get to see
Speaker 1: the Rakes, so I won't say that. And one more,
Speaker 1: I had it in my head and I've got lost
Speaker 1: making a Rakes joke. Foolish. I would have loved I
Speaker 1: would have really loved I've seen him, and it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily legend. I would have loved to have been at
Speaker 1: Glastonbury when Jay Z headlined it because I feel it
Speaker 1: was a turning point for the festival. And I watched
Speaker 1: it on TV and I thought it was incredible and
Speaker 1: the fact that everyone was talking about him having loads
Speaker 1: of guests out and he didn't have anyone out, like
Speaker 1: you know, it was just him and all the samples
Speaker 1: he did, you know, like sampling Sunday, Bloody Sunday by
Speaker 1: you two. All of that stuff I just thought was
Speaker 1: so expertly done. And I was on a huge jay
Speaker 1: Z tip back then at that point, So it would
Speaker 1: be that I was going to go with Nirvana at
Speaker 1: reading because I liked it when I've seen I watched
Speaker 1: that footage of Kirk had been running into the jump
Speaker 1: drum kit all the time, and I would love to
Speaker 1: have seen that. But the other two are so guitari
Speaker 1: I feel like need to like, yeah, I'm going for that.
Speaker 2: That is a hell of a top three. I met
Speaker 2: somebody the other day who was at that reading and
Speaker 2: didn't and chose actively chose not to go and watch
Speaker 2: the banner, and I think went to go and watch
Speaker 2: somebody like the Charlatan's headline.
Speaker 3: Like the.
Speaker 1: Wow did they regret it? Did they think? So?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did they? How foolish is this?
Speaker 2: Yeah? This maybe this is maybe this is for another time,
Speaker 2: but like our near maybe we should do our like
Speaker 2: near missus. Like when Blur got back together the first
Speaker 2: time and when they headlined Glastermy that was very emotional.
Speaker 2: You remember Damon was like kind of he was pretty
Speaker 2: much crying on stage. I was working at that point
Speaker 2: and I drew quite literally drew the short straw because
Speaker 2: we did sort of was reporting was amongst a group
Speaker 2: of people reporting on that year's festival, and we said,
Speaker 2: somebody's got to go and watch Black Eyed Ps headline
Speaker 2: the Jazz World stage. And guess who. Guess who went
Speaker 2: to watch that instead of watching Blur and I watched
Speaker 2: Will I Am come out and go hey London, every boo.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised there were people there to go boo. I'm
Speaker 1: surprised there were.
Speaker 2: There were people there going boo. Yeah. I mean that's
Speaker 2: just the size of Glaston Berson and I think that
Speaker 2: everybody just gets so lost and high that they're not
Speaker 2: even necessarily shut. They're just like, hey, I'm watching Black
Speaker 2: Eyed Peace but yeah, never mind, but yeah, good good.
Speaker 2: Top three, there's shall we beat the algorithm?
Speaker 1: Let's beat the algorithm.
Speaker 2: Beat the algorithm, beat the algorm. So this is the
Speaker 2: point in the podcast where we want to be useful.
Speaker 2: Stu and I were thinking, let's just stop, let's give
Speaker 2: some let's give the people something to take away with them.
Speaker 2: And so we've got a recommendation, something that we're listening
Speaker 2: to at the moment that we think that you might enjoy.
Speaker 2: My choice this week is a song called Warplane, and
Speaker 2: it's by an artist called Heartworms, and if you don't
Speaker 2: know Heartworms. She is from South London. Her real name
Speaker 2: is jojo Ormey, but she performs under the name Heartworms
Speaker 2: and has been around for a couple of years and
Speaker 2: been talked about it for a couple of years. But
Speaker 2: quite a lot of people getting excited about Heartworms because
Speaker 2: she releases music via Speedy WonderGround, which is the label
Speaker 2: run by the producer Dan Kerrey and has previously given
Speaker 2: birth or introduced us to artists including Ka Tempest, Black Midi,
Speaker 2: Fontan's DC loads and loads of really exciting stuff. So
Speaker 2: the fact that like Heartworms is working with them says
Speaker 2: a lot. And this song is called Warplane.
Speaker 1: She loves war memorabilia.
Speaker 2: Yes, she's a volunteer at the Hendon Royal Air Museum
Speaker 2: when she's not making music.
Speaker 1: Fantastic. We did a feature with her in the meg
Speaker 1: I'll put a link in the bio because she talks
Speaker 1: about that a little bit and I thought that was
Speaker 1: just quite fascinating to be a young person into the war,
Speaker 1: you know, into the Second World War and the planes
Speaker 1: and all that stuff.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, she serves a spitfire. Warplane is all
Speaker 2: about her love for spitfires and it's about spitfire Pilot.
Speaker 2: If you're looking for the meaning behind the song.
Speaker 1: Who doesn't love a spitfire.
Speaker 2: Me?
Speaker 1: So I'm going to pick something brand new. It's by
Speaker 1: a band called Lobby, which is made up of Lotty
Speaker 1: from Goat Girl, the South London band Goat Girl, and
Speaker 1: a guy called Toby who's in a band called Leatherhead.
Speaker 1: And this is a track that's coming on their WEP.
Speaker 1: The EP is called night Driving. It's going to be
Speaker 1: out next month, but this is the first track off
Speaker 1: of it, called Folding Out, and it's like melodic slow core.
Speaker 1: The bit I'm about to play is where Toby's voice
Speaker 1: joins Lotty's voice, and I think they just work very
Speaker 1: well together. Toby's voice actually reminds me a little bit
Speaker 1: of a of a very raw Julian Casablancas. It's over
Speaker 1: spial on every way, believing a bit of saxophone on
Speaker 1: there as well, and those pinched harmonics that remind me
Speaker 1: of Slint. It's great. I love this track. That's Lobby.
Speaker 1: The song is called Folding Out and the EP is
Speaker 1: actually out on the first of November. We will put
Speaker 1: both of those songs on our beat. The Algorithm playlist.
Speaker 1: It's on Spotify. You can find it by just searching Spotify.
Speaker 1: It will also be linked in our show notes of
Speaker 1: this week's episode.
Speaker 2: Stu, I've got to go for the night because I
Speaker 2: have realized that I left my tablet in sexy Land
Speaker 2: World in Amsterdam. And this is not a joke. It
Speaker 2: is still there. It's in a locker in sexy Land,
Speaker 2: so I'm going to have to send a groveling email
Speaker 2: to sexy Land to see if I can get it back.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that is gone.
Speaker 2: I think it probably is too. And on that note,
Speaker 2: thanks very much for joining us tonight. We've loved chatting
Speaker 2: all things live music. Do let us know if there
Speaker 2: was a legendary gig that you didn't get to that
Speaker 2: you'd have loved to have been out like we always
Speaker 2: want to hear your thoughts on that. We're at Midnight
Speaker 2: Chat's pod on the social media. But until next week,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go for a lie down, a very
Speaker 2: well needed, desperately needed lie down. And it's good night
Speaker 2: from me.
Speaker 1: And it's good night ware Wolfs wherever you are, howl
Speaker 1: On baby how al on.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: Midnight Chats is a joint production between Loud and Quiet
Speaker 1: and Atomized Studios for iHeartRadio. It's hosted by Stuart Stubbs
Speaker 1: and Greg Cochrane, mixed and mastered by Flow Lines, and
Speaker 1: edited by Stuart Stubbs.
Speaker 2: Find us on Instagram and TikTok to watch clips from
Speaker 2: our recordings and much much more. We are Midnight Chats Pod.
Speaker 1: For more information, visit Loud and Quiet dot com