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Speaker 1: welcome to Hoops Tonight, presented by Fan Duel here at
Speaker 1: the Volume. Happy Wednesday, everybody. I hope all of you
Speaker 1: guys are having a great week so far. We got
Speaker 1: a fun show for you guys today. We're having my
Speaker 1: buddy Carson come on and we are going to hit
Speaker 1: on the five biggest questions for the second half of
Speaker 1: the NBA season, going to talk a lot about the
Speaker 1: teams near the top of the league, and then we
Speaker 1: have a little bit of an NBA Draft topic at
Speaker 1: the end as well. Carson's always amazing with the draft,
Speaker 1: so I'm excited to get into that a little bit.
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Speaker 1: Carson on. I got to meet Carson in person. Find
Speaker 1: at the Vaulheam's yearly party up at the Super Bowl
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, and you guys will be
Speaker 1: stunned to find out that Carson is an enormous human being,
Speaker 1: almost as tall as I am. I tried to get
Speaker 1: him to come play in my men's league team, but
Speaker 1: he told me he's had a thrice dislocated kneecap, so
Speaker 1: it wasn't going to happen. But dude, it was really
Speaker 1: good to meet you in person the other day. We've
Speaker 1: done a lot of work in the past, and I'm
Speaker 1: excited to talk some basketball with you today. Man, how
Speaker 1: are you. I'm great, Jason. Yeah, that was a lot
Speaker 1: of fun. And I will say, I think you rounded
Speaker 1: me up a little bit. I mean, I pulled up.
Speaker 1: He told me I was six to five. I'm about
Speaker 1: six three and a half. You know, no shoes, not
Speaker 1: my NBA measurement, but I appreciate that. And uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's great to see you. Yeah. Man, So I'm excited
Speaker 1: to get into I mean, I will say unequivocally, this
Speaker 1: is the most excited that I've been for a stretch
Speaker 1: ron of the NBA in a long time. The league
Speaker 1: feels wide open, a bunch of teams that a team
Speaker 1: that I root for in the Lakers, has made some
Speaker 1: moves and has made themselves a little bit more serious
Speaker 1: here down the stretch, and they're gonna be fun to watch.
Speaker 1: The Warriors are going to be playing at the absolute
Speaker 1: peak of their capability to try to make up ground
Speaker 1: and at the top of the league. We've got a
Speaker 1: bunch of super interesting teams. So I'm excited to dive
Speaker 1: into it. Today. We got five questions for you. What's
Speaker 1: our first question, Carson? Yeah, Well, first off, I agree
Speaker 1: with you completely. It also feels sort of like the
Speaker 1: season is really starting now just because of how much
Speaker 1: turnover we've seen in terms of rosters with teams that
Speaker 1: could potentially be contenders. So very exciting on that front.
Speaker 1: But as you said, we've also seen some teams that
Speaker 1: have been consistently towards the top of the league, and
Speaker 1: we very much have that picture out East where there's
Speaker 1: sort of a pack of three that has separated itself
Speaker 1: with the Celtics, the Bucks, and the Sixers. So, Jason,
Speaker 1: out of that group, who do you think actually ends
Speaker 1: up as the one seed out East? So you know
Speaker 1: what's funny is I it's very close. Bucks are a
Speaker 1: half game back, and they've been killing everybody lately. But
Speaker 1: I think this is going to be one of the
Speaker 1: more important races here down the stretch. You you know,
Speaker 1: I talked a lot over the last couple of weeks
Speaker 1: about teams having the flexibility to kind of ease their
Speaker 1: way into the postseason, and I do think if it
Speaker 1: comes down to injuries, that both the Bucks and the Celtics,
Speaker 1: even the Sixers will prioritize taking care of their players
Speaker 1: and their health. That said, I think that the one
Speaker 1: seed is super important this year on two different levels.
Speaker 1: First of all, I think Philly is a much much
Speaker 1: more dangerous playoff opponent than Cleveland. I think there's a
Speaker 1: massive drop off there. I think I would be almost
Speaker 1: certain that the Bucks and the Celtics would beat the Calves.
Speaker 1: I would give the Sixers a legitimate puncher's chance to
Speaker 1: beat either of them, especially if James Harden and Joel
Speaker 1: and beat play well. So for starters, getting that one
Speaker 1: seat allows you a much easier path towards the conference finals,
Speaker 1: which that series is going to be a blood literally
Speaker 1: and physically. So like I look at that one seat
Speaker 1: is vitally important in the East, and then coming out
Speaker 1: of the West. I mean, the two teams that I
Speaker 1: think are most likely to win that conference are Golden
Speaker 1: State in Denver right now, and Denver is gonna have
Speaker 1: the elevation factor that's gonna be huge in Golden State,
Speaker 1: as bad as they've been this year, they have not
Speaker 1: been bad at home, and so I think home court
Speaker 1: advantage is really going to matter for those two teams,
Speaker 1: and so I think they're gonna go for it now.
Speaker 1: The one big wrinkle here is the Celtics are getting healthy.
Speaker 1: Marcus Smart just played his first game in a month
Speaker 1: on Wednesday before the All Star break, and then Jaylen
Speaker 1: Brown played in the All Star Game with that mask on,
Speaker 1: so they're kind of coming together. And we also have
Speaker 1: heard that Jannis might miss a couple of games as
Speaker 1: he waits for the pain in his wrist to subside. Now,
Speaker 1: the Bucks have been okay without Jannis this year. They're
Speaker 1: only zero point seven points per one hundred possessions when
Speaker 1: Jannis is off the floor, and they have a pretty
Speaker 1: easy schedule coming up. I was looking at it, and
Speaker 1: I think that they should win in five of their
Speaker 1: next eight games at a minimum, even if Jannis doesn't
Speaker 1: play in any of those games. But I'm still gonna
Speaker 1: go with Boston. And here's why, because there's one other
Speaker 1: big wrinkle that we're glossing over here. Boston has never
Speaker 1: relinquished the top seat. And every time they've had a
Speaker 1: down stretch where they've lost some games and teams have
Speaker 1: caught up, they've immediately gone on a run. So like
Speaker 1: they lost five out of six when Golden State embarrassed them,
Speaker 1: in that one game, and then they right when it
Speaker 1: looked like they might get passed, they turn around in
Speaker 1: one thirteen of their next fifteen, and there was a
Speaker 1: gap again, and then they lost three in a row
Speaker 1: in late January, everybody caught up again, and then before
Speaker 1: anybody could pass them, they ripped off seven out of
Speaker 1: nine before the All Star breaks. So, like, I think
Speaker 1: they know they have a higher regular season ceiling than
Speaker 1: any of these other teams, and I think anytime they
Speaker 1: sense real danger in the standings, they're just gonna hit
Speaker 1: the jets and pull away. So I'm going with Boston.
Speaker 1: What do you think, Carson? I think that makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense. And I honestly think of the margin
Speaker 1: between Milwaukee and Boston in this conversation as it is
Speaker 1: in terms of who you like is the favorite come
Speaker 1: out of the conference come playoff time is very slim.
Speaker 1: I think the Sixers are sort of a little bit
Speaker 1: out of this. As good as they've been, they have
Speaker 1: the toughest schedule in the league left and they're already
Speaker 1: three games back. That's gonna be tough to make up.
Speaker 1: But I actually lean Milwaukee here, and the reason for
Speaker 1: that is sort of that I feel they were only
Speaker 1: seeing their potential being realized. Well, we haven't even seen
Speaker 1: it yet, but they're on that trajectory. Like over the
Speaker 1: last fifteen they've finally been a top ten offense after
Speaker 1: struggling so much on that end of the floor compared
Speaker 1: to expectations for a lot of the year, and they've
Speaker 1: been unstoppable. Right, They've just ripped off twelve straight. I
Speaker 1: just think with the influx of offensive talent that they've had,
Speaker 1: with the addition of a Joe Ingles, with Chris Middleton
Speaker 1: getting healthier, hopefully becoming the sort of star caliber player
Speaker 1: that we expect him to be, and with the unstoppable
Speaker 1: level that Jannis is at. Again, it's very close, But
Speaker 1: I really like Milwaukee, and I also think come play
Speaker 1: off time, I slightly prefer their combination of three legit stars,
Speaker 1: insanely consistent elite defense with just a really stellar cast
Speaker 1: of role players. Yeah, it's funny, we get we know
Speaker 1: what that matchup is going to look like, Like we
Speaker 1: know that Milwaukee's going to run a drop coverage with
Speaker 1: Lopez just literally just blatantly ignoring Robert Williams or Al Horford,
Speaker 1: whoever's the five to hang out at the rim, and
Speaker 1: they're basically going to funnel everybody to Robert to Brook
Speaker 1: Lopez and try to force them to make the right reads.
Speaker 1: And that series will swing back and forth as Boston
Speaker 1: makes good decisions driving and kicking the basketball, and as
Speaker 1: they get stupid and take bad shots. We've just seen
Speaker 1: this movie a million times. Then on the other end
Speaker 1: of the floor, it's going to be a steady diet
Speaker 1: of Grant Williams and Al Horford on Jannis and whether
Speaker 1: or not guys can make plays off the ball. And
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up Ingles and Chris Middleton's It's
Speaker 1: been a really small sample size, but those two guys,
Speaker 1: when you've put them on the floor with Drew Holiday, Honest,
Speaker 1: this year, they've been scoring the shit out of the basketball.
Speaker 1: And this is something I've been preaching the entire season.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna get into this a little bit more
Speaker 1: as we move on to our next question as we're
Speaker 1: talking about MVP. But like, I don't think people have
Speaker 1: given Yannis enough credit for the way he floated this
Speaker 1: team with that lack of offensive talent, because and I'll
Speaker 1: give you, I'll give you a wild stat did you
Speaker 1: know that the Bucks are twenty two and six in
Speaker 1: games that have involved clutch situations despite being a bottom
Speaker 1: five clutch offense because teams can load up on Jannis
Speaker 1: and they haven't had the requisite offensive skill around them.
Speaker 1: Now we've seen why Jannis has become a defensive wrecking
Speaker 1: ball at the end of games. And so I'll give
Speaker 1: you an example of the Clippers game. Just took on
Speaker 1: isolation defensive Kawhile Leonard and just completely shut him down
Speaker 1: over the course of the last five minutes of the game. Right, Like,
Speaker 1: those are the elements there that Janis has been able
Speaker 1: to cover for all of these gaps on the roster
Speaker 1: as guys have been in and out of the lineup. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I tend to think that I tend to
Speaker 1: think that Boston has a slightly higher ceiling when they're
Speaker 1: really clicking on all cylinders and moving the basketball around,
Speaker 1: and I almost think they look better offensively when their
Speaker 1: guards start their action. When when Derrick White and Marcus
Speaker 1: Smart and Malcolm Brogden actually make that initial decision and
Speaker 1: Tatum and Brown playoff of that, I think they actually
Speaker 1: look a lot better. I do think they have a
Speaker 1: higher ceiling but I do think Milwaukee is a much
Speaker 1: more like a safer pick for who's going to get
Speaker 1: out of the conference. I agree, and I think that
Speaker 1: that decision making factor is always going to be a
Speaker 1: swing thing for Boston. Like we know how brilliant their
Speaker 1: offense can be, We've seen it for so much of
Speaker 1: the season, and we know how low it can at
Speaker 1: times get, like we saw at different points in that
Speaker 1: Warriors series throughout last regular season. So I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I think Milwaukee's the pick, but Boston has an unbelievably ceilings.
Speaker 1: So let's move want to question number two, which is
Speaker 1: one that has been pretty hotly debated as of late,
Speaker 1: and there was a bit of outrage over a recent
Speaker 1: ESPN straw pole on this topic. But Jason will Nikola
Speaker 1: Yokich win a third straight MVP this year. I believe
Speaker 1: you will. It's just my um my time following the NBA,
Speaker 1: I've noticed that voters in particular also have egos, which
Speaker 1: I get it. Like Carson, if I called you and
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, buddy, guess what congratulations You get
Speaker 1: to vote on NBA awards for the rest of this time,
Speaker 1: you know, for the rest of your career. You'd be like, hell, yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm one of those guys, you know, yeah and like
Speaker 1: And I think they I think they have a little
Speaker 1: bit of ego, and I think that they write about
Speaker 1: it throughout the season and so they make arguments throughout
Speaker 1: the season for why they feel a certain way, and
Speaker 1: so it's really hard for them to come off of that.
Speaker 1: And that Tim Bontemp's article that MVP straw Pole is
Speaker 1: very much a it's a it's kind of depressent like
Speaker 1: it's right almost every time. So given the advantage that
Speaker 1: Yoka chad in that poll and where I've seen on
Speaker 1: Twitter the way a lot of these voters are arguing
Speaker 1: this point, I think it's a runaway train. I don't
Speaker 1: think he's missing it now. To be clear, if he
Speaker 1: wins his third straight and he's deserving, I have no
Speaker 1: problem with that. I don't think that just because a
Speaker 1: guy may or may not have not deserved a previous
Speaker 1: MVP doesn't mean he shouldn't get one that he absolutely
Speaker 1: deserves if he deserves it within the season. But I
Speaker 1: have a big question for you, Carson, and I'm hoping
Speaker 1: you can help me reconcile this because the issue that
Speaker 1: I have with it is if you ask me who
Speaker 1: is the MVP if the season ended right now, I
Speaker 1: think it's a toss up between Janis and Yoki, and
Speaker 1: I think Joel Embide is right there behind them. And
Speaker 1: so it bothers me that the narrative has it as
Speaker 1: a runaway freight train kind of things. I wanted to
Speaker 1: kind of read this to you and Carson, you can
Speaker 1: tell me if I'm being crazy. So Ni Yokis is
Speaker 1: averaging twenty five, twelve and ten. He's obviously got a
Speaker 1: seventy percent true shooting percentage, which is absurd, although he's
Speaker 1: not relying on almost any self creation, like he's not
Speaker 1: doing a ton of isolating or posting up. He's doing
Speaker 1: a lot of work kind of within the flow of
Speaker 1: the offense relative to some of the other guys that
Speaker 1: he's competing with. That's going to lead to inflated true
Speaker 1: shooting percentages. In my opinion, the Nuggets are forty one
Speaker 1: and eighteen. I do think he has demonstrated himself as
Speaker 1: the best offensive player in the league. I think that's
Speaker 1: a hill that you've been on for a couple of
Speaker 1: years now, and I think I'm on that hill now. Too,
Speaker 1: But Yannis, I'm getting thirty two, twelve and five sixty
Speaker 1: percent true shooting, albeit on a totally different type of
Speaker 1: shot diet. They're a half game better in the standings
Speaker 1: forty one and seventeen. I would argue he's done more
Speaker 1: with less. We just talked about in the last segment
Speaker 1: about the influx of offensive talent for the Bucks in
Speaker 1: the way that's completely transformed their offense. There's been a
Speaker 1: lot of this season with like Yannis out there, with
Speaker 1: Brook low Pen and just a bunch of guys, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Due Holiday has been in and
Speaker 1: out of the lineup, Chris Middleton's barely been in the lineup,
Speaker 1: Joe Ingles just started playing in the last like what
Speaker 1: dozen or so games, So like, it's one of those
Speaker 1: things where I do think he's done a little bit
Speaker 1: more than less with less. He I think he's a
Speaker 1: top five offensive player in the league, and I think
Speaker 1: he's the very best defensive player in the league. We
Speaker 1: mentioned that clutch stat earlier, the twenty two and six
Speaker 1: and clutch games with what he can do defensively. So
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it is Yannis, but why is it
Speaker 1: that Yoki fans, and you're a Yokich fan and you're
Speaker 1: a Yoka supporter, Why is it that Yokis fans feel
Speaker 1: like this is kind of a done deal. Well, first
Speaker 1: of all, let me just say that I don't feel
Speaker 1: that way at all, and if anybody picked Yannis, I
Speaker 1: completely understand it. I think these are the two guys
Speaker 1: who have consistently carried their rosters the most. Yes, they
Speaker 1: have good rosters, but are clearly like in a completely
Speaker 1: different tier in terms of super star our ability from
Speaker 1: anybody else on their team. Jannis has done so much defensively,
Speaker 1: although the Bucks are really talented there as well, but
Speaker 1: they've been unbelievable on that end. And I mean his
Speaker 1: raw production and what he has done to raise their
Speaker 1: floor offensively and make them an elite team without Chris
Speaker 1: Middleton for so much of this year is remarkably impressive.
Speaker 1: I guess I'll just make the case for why I
Speaker 1: do still think it's Yokich. It is the most efficient
Speaker 1: scoring season at this volume that we've ever seen, by
Speaker 1: nearly three points true shooting, and I understand what you're
Speaker 1: saying about the shot diet. That being said, his versatility
Speaker 1: is unprecedented for a big man right like, he is
Speaker 1: actually the highest volume post player in the league, and
Speaker 1: he scores it ninety first percentile efficiency there. He's a
Speaker 1: ninetieth percentile roll man Jason, He's a sixty eighth percentile
Speaker 1: pick and roll ball handler. He's seven ft two hundred
Speaker 1: and eighty five pounds. Like the inverted pick and roll
Speaker 1: are legitimately important for the Nuggets, and he crushes it.
Speaker 1: He is a fifty five percent shoot from mid range,
Speaker 1: seventy percent on floaters. So like to me, the shot
Speaker 1: making the scoring is remarkable, and that's obviously not the
Speaker 1: primary selling point, which I think is the playmaking and
Speaker 1: the overall ability to lift a team offense like his
Speaker 1: on offsplits this year plus twenty four point seven, the
Speaker 1: best of this century of any player, point blank, plus
Speaker 1: thirteen point seven on courtnet rating. That's how many points
Speaker 1: borne hundre possessions the Nuggets outscore their opponents by when
Speaker 1: he's on the floor. It's easily the best of any candidate.
Speaker 1: It's five points borne under possessions better than Yannis. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Yannis's team, yes, is mediocre when he's off the floor,
Speaker 1: but they don't fall apart as Yoki's Nuggets do. And
Speaker 1: I understand if people are growing a bit tired of
Speaker 1: that argument, because it's like, yeah, well, part of that
Speaker 1: is that the Nuggets don't have really a playable backup center,
Speaker 1: or haven't for so much of this year, and I
Speaker 1: understand that. But nevertheless, he is so fundamental to not
Speaker 1: just elevating this offense, but to making it the best
Speaker 1: in the league. They're thirty eight and thirteen when he plays,
Speaker 1: so I think he's clearly the best offensive player. I
Speaker 1: think he's had the best offensive season, and I think
Speaker 1: he has had the largest impact on team success. I
Speaker 1: actually do, But I think the margin between him and
Speaker 1: Jannis is slim there, and if you want to make
Speaker 1: the two way better all around argument for Jannis, who
Speaker 1: has also had such unbelievable offensive production and propelled his
Speaker 1: team to being elite, I really have no problem with that.
Speaker 1: I do think it's a toss up, and I could
Speaker 1: see Yannis actually taking the lead down the stretch. I mean,
Speaker 1: if the Bucks just run away with it now that
Speaker 1: they're at full strength, and I would have no problem
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, it's interesting because specifically with the shot
Speaker 1: diet stuff, I want to be clear like, I don't
Speaker 1: think you get bonus points for making it more difficult.
Speaker 1: I always joke about, like I'll have guys on a
Speaker 1: plane sometimes it'll be like the big why do you
Speaker 1: call him for a ball screen or something like that.
Speaker 1: I'm like, do you think I get bonus points for
Speaker 1: scoring on you? Like? No, it's like, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: win this game, okay, Like I don't care what how
Speaker 1: we go about doing it right. You know. It's like,
Speaker 1: what I appreciate about Yokich is I think the fact
Speaker 1: that he scores so much in the flow of the
Speaker 1: offense is part of what makes them such a dominant
Speaker 1: regular season team, because there is such a rhythm and
Speaker 1: flow to the way they play offensively. But I do
Speaker 1: and you pointed out the post up stuff, and I
Speaker 1: want to be clear, it's not like Yoki just never
Speaker 1: looking to create his own shot. Of course he does.
Speaker 1: Primarily he's doing it out of the post a lot
Speaker 1: of times against mismatches that are generated through the flow
Speaker 1: of his you know, inverted picking rolls and the things
Speaker 1: that he does pushing the ball in transition. But I
Speaker 1: do think there's something to be said about, especially when
Speaker 1: you get into late game situations and in the postseason,
Speaker 1: that rhythm and flow offense tends to have a little
Speaker 1: bit of a ceiling to it. You saw that in
Speaker 1: that Philadelphia game. Like at the end of that game,
Speaker 1: Philly got in front of all of those Denver actions
Speaker 1: and nobody on Denver wanted to take and make a
Speaker 1: tough shot, and on the other end of the floor,
Speaker 1: Joel Embiid was just staring. Joke it's right in the
Speaker 1: eyeballs and hit and pull up jumpers in his face.
Speaker 1: So like, and that's just one game. And there's also
Speaker 1: a version of that game where Yoka where NBA doesn't
Speaker 1: get hot at the end, and then Denver wins, and
Speaker 1: then everyone's talking about how great Yokis is, right, So
Speaker 1: but what I'm just saying though, is like, in terms
Speaker 1: of like, oh, he's having one of the most efficient
Speaker 1: scoring seasons in his career in the history of the NBA,
Speaker 1: I do think that there's an important footnote there, which
Speaker 1: is that yokt the way that Yokis is doing it
Speaker 1: is different than a lot of the other high volume
Speaker 1: scoring seasons in NBA history. Just so I do think
Speaker 1: that a factors into the efficiency. I do want to
Speaker 1: push back on one last thing, though, I can't stand
Speaker 1: it when I hear the Yoki's proponents point out the
Speaker 1: on off stats. Not that I don't appreciate the on
Speaker 1: off stats, but there's a couple of There's two huge
Speaker 1: factors there. You mentioned one of them. They don't have
Speaker 1: a good bench, at least not until before the trade deadline.
Speaker 1: I do think Reggie Jackson and Thomas Bryant will help
Speaker 1: a lot in that department. But the Nuggets also use
Speaker 1: kind of a line shift system, and that's a huge
Speaker 1: difference between a way the way most teams in the
Speaker 1: NBA do. Most teams in the NBA like to stagger
Speaker 1: a little bit more to give themselves a little bit
Speaker 1: more continuity with talent on the floor throughout the game.
Speaker 1: The Nuggets are very much a we're running our starters,
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna bring out our bench group, and
Speaker 1: then we're gonna come back to our starters. And so
Speaker 1: that massive drop off in talent is a big part
Speaker 1: of why they struggle so much when the Stars or
Speaker 1: when Yokich is off the floor. That's why you see
Speaker 1: like Contavious Calwell popes on off numbers are through the
Speaker 1: roof right like there's a huge part of that is
Speaker 1: the way they stagger those lineups. So you know, for Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: for instance, they run any more traditional rotation with guys
Speaker 1: in and out of the lineup, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: Yannis at center as they go to their bench. So
Speaker 1: I do, I do think that there's some context there.
Speaker 1: I really put it. I really put it this simple,
Speaker 1: like these are two of the top you know, five
Speaker 1: players in the world that are having other worldly seasons.
Speaker 1: Yokich has a more offensive edge, Janniss has a more
Speaker 1: defensive edge. I think that I would probably end up
Speaker 1: favoring the guy, provided that no one misses too much time,
Speaker 1: Like if Vannis goes and misses seven games here with
Speaker 1: his wrist, then it's a done deal. Like Yokis gets it.
Speaker 1: And that's a huge thing with Yokis in the last
Speaker 1: few years is his availability. That dude is just always
Speaker 1: ready to play. I think even when he's missed games
Speaker 1: this year, it's been like Covid, you know what I mean, So,
Speaker 1: like his availability is a huge factor there. But they're
Speaker 1: close enough at this point that if if you know,
Speaker 1: if it's still just a five to six game gap
Speaker 1: between the two of them in terms of playing availability
Speaker 1: and in the bucks finished ahead of them in the standings.
Speaker 1: I'd probably lean towards Yannis, and I'm fine with that,
Speaker 1: And I will say I think that those are both
Speaker 1: important and fair contextual points that you made on the
Speaker 1: on off numbers. I would then simplify it, and sure
Speaker 1: you're still getting the value that he's playing with a
Speaker 1: lot of starters. But I think just that pure on
Speaker 1: court number, right, I mean, out scoring opposing teams by
Speaker 1: thirteen point seven points per one hundred when he's on
Speaker 1: the floor is remarkable, and it's the best of any
Speaker 1: of these candidates. So I think that this should be
Speaker 1: viewed as a very even two man race. I think
Speaker 1: that Embiid, because of sort of games missed, doesn't have
Speaker 1: quite as strong of a case, although he's not too
Speaker 1: far behind in that conversation, but doesn't quite have the
Speaker 1: team's success. Like the margins are slim here, So if
Speaker 1: you want to make an MBID case, I would hear
Speaker 1: it out. I just think it's pretty clearly the weakest
Speaker 1: of the three. But if I could just for a
Speaker 1: moment vent Jason from the perspective of a long time
Speaker 1: Yokish fan, a guy who actually picked him to win
Speaker 1: MVP this season before he did it. I don't know
Speaker 1: that I want him to win this MVP because the
Speaker 1: narratives that have started, just the disgusting level of outrage
Speaker 1: and disingenuous arguments that are born out of him just
Speaker 1: being announced as a straw poll front runner. It's absurd,
Speaker 1: Like we're getting so many bad faith arguments, we're getting
Speaker 1: the well hold on everybody ragged on Russ as a
Speaker 1: stat pattern when he averages a triple double, by the way,
Speaker 1: for which he won an MVP and I actually didn't
Speaker 1: deserve in my opinion, but he won the MVP, And
Speaker 1: now we're not doing the same for Yoka, just like
Speaker 1: these could not be were different cases. Right, Yoki has
Speaker 1: led the best offense in basketball without another legitimate star.
Speaker 1: He is this remarkable blend of efficiency and offensive versatility
Speaker 1: in playmaking. There's a massive impact on winning. Right, Russ's
Speaker 1: team offense was sixteenth. Russ was wildly inefficient. Russ was,
Speaker 1: by the way, having his rebounds padded like Steven Adams
Speaker 1: was trying to get him the ball so that he
Speaker 1: could initiate the offense more quickly. Look at his contested
Speaker 1: rebound rate, and then I just think the playoff success argument,
Speaker 1: it's like, if you think anybody could have contended with
Speaker 1: the Nuggets roster the last two years, you're tripping Facundo
Speaker 1: Compozzo in Austin rivers, where there's starting guards in a
Speaker 1: playoff series. I haven't had Jamal Murray and Yokich has
Speaker 1: been incredible, So I just think it's going to put
Speaker 1: him in just an absurd position of people being like,
Speaker 1: all right, well you got three MVPs, you need to
Speaker 1: win a ring right now or you're a fraud. And
Speaker 1: it's like, well, this is actually his first title caliber roster,
Speaker 1: and guess what, there's other title caliber rosters out there. Like,
Speaker 1: I just think it's going to be unfair on that front.
Speaker 1: But let me commend you, cars and really quickly before
Speaker 1: we move on. You went through that entire debate without
Speaker 1: mentioning a single catch all metric, which is all I've
Speaker 1: been seeing on the damn Twitter timeline over the course
Speaker 1: of the last couple of weeks, which drives me completely insane.
Speaker 1: You made a basketball case for it, and I sincerely
Speaker 1: appreciate that. Well, Jason, you and I are aligned in
Speaker 1: our dislike of catch all one number metrics. I think
Speaker 1: the idea that we could encapsulate a basketball player's value
Speaker 1: with one number is absurd. And I think defensive metrics
Speaker 1: are overwhelmingly offensively bad, but that's a conversation for another day.
Speaker 1: And by the way, defensive metrics clearly overrate Yoki, there's
Speaker 1: no doubt about that. But I think he's the best
Speaker 1: offensive player in basketball. I think his impact on team
Speaker 1: success in this regular season has still been unrivaled. But
Speaker 1: Jeannie is incredible and we've known from the jump that
Speaker 1: this was going to be an MVP race for the Ages,
Speaker 1: and I think it's lived up to the hype. Bet
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Speaker 1: made for you. In the Vandel sports Book AP This Thursday,
Speaker 1: I'm on the Lakers to cover their minus four and
Speaker 1: a half spread against Golden State, and I like the under.
Speaker 1: This new version of the Lakers plays at a much
Speaker 1: slower pace and with Jared Vanderbilt in the starting lineup,
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Speaker 1: official sports betting partner of the NBA. Let's talk now
Speaker 1: about a guy who was in that conversation early has
Speaker 1: fallen out of a bit due to sort of the
Speaker 1: team success factor, but now has his running mate. They
Speaker 1: could put them in that contending conversation that is the
Speaker 1: Luca don Chich Kyrie Irving duo in Dallas, Jason will
Speaker 1: their season? Will this duo be a success or a failure?
Speaker 1: I think it's certainly possible. I don't think this season
Speaker 1: is the is the season to properly evaluate them. I mean,
Speaker 1: just everything we know about playoff basketball. I've pointed this
Speaker 1: out on the show before, but you need a certain
Speaker 1: amount of defensive front court talent to have any chance
Speaker 1: to win the title. Just look at every defensive front
Speaker 1: court that's won the title in the last like thirty years,
Speaker 1: and you're not like the weakest one you'll find in
Speaker 1: there is maybe like you know, Dirk Navitsky and Tyson Chandler,
Speaker 1: who Tyson Chandler was an awesome rim protector at that point, right, Like,
Speaker 1: You're just not going to be able to compete in
Speaker 1: the NBA playoffs without real defensive front court versatility. And
Speaker 1: so a lot of it's played out exactly like we expected.
Speaker 1: We talked about a real a real secondary ball handler
Speaker 1: to help with usage and things along those lines, and
Speaker 1: to give a different kind of change up to Luca
Speaker 1: elevating them on offense, but then really really struggling on
Speaker 1: the defensive end, and that's exactly what's happened. So here's
Speaker 1: the lineup data so far since Kyrie's come to Dallas,
Speaker 1: with both Luca and Kyrie on the floor and one
Speaker 1: hundred and nine possessions, they are plus ten point five
Speaker 1: net with a defensive rating of one hundred and twenty one.
Speaker 1: So they're beating the crap out of teams despite giving
Speaker 1: up an egregious amount of points. And it's because they
Speaker 1: have an offensive rating up over one hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: one points per one hundred possessions when Kyrie's on the
Speaker 1: floor without Luca, they've done They've had one hundred and
Speaker 1: ninety nine possessions of that so far, a one sixteen
Speaker 1: defensive rating, one twenty three offensive rating, plus seven net.
Speaker 1: That's about as good as you're ever gonna do without
Speaker 1: Luca in this era, probably worth mentioning. And this is
Speaker 1: you know, I was talking about this with Ryan shortly
Speaker 1: after this all went down, But dude, he went right
Speaker 1: away with one practice and beat the Clippers and the
Speaker 1: Kings on the road without Luca like like that, you know.
Speaker 1: And it always bothered me during this whole debate how
Speaker 1: everyone focused on the issues with Kyrie while completely glossing
Speaker 1: over the fact that he is an unbelievably good basketball player.
Speaker 1: So you're seeing you're seeing that benefit already there. And
Speaker 1: then this season with Luca and no Kyrie in thirty
Speaker 1: five hundred possessions, obviously because it's a full season, they
Speaker 1: have a one twenty offensive rating in a one sixteen
Speaker 1: defensive rating, So they're getting really good, like Luca quality
Speaker 1: offense even when Luca's off the floor, which is the
Speaker 1: huge advantage there. Now, I think from an exosit like
Speaker 1: from an actual basketball standpoint, and I'm wondering if you're
Speaker 1: seeing the same thing. There's a lot more tempo and
Speaker 1: pace to the way they're playing now, not necessarily in
Speaker 1: pushing and transition, because I was looking at the numbers,
Speaker 1: they were a twelve percent transition frequency without Kyrie in
Speaker 1: the thirteen percent with him, so not much of a
Speaker 1: tick up there, But in the half court there's just
Speaker 1: a lot more quickness of decision making with Kyrie on
Speaker 1: the floor, and I think I think a lot of
Speaker 1: that is Kyrie initiating possessions just because he makes quicker
Speaker 1: decisions and he's not the super methodical approach that Luca
Speaker 1: has but even when Lucas had the ball. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if you've noticed this, Carson, but even Luca's making
Speaker 1: quicker decisions knowing that if if it leads to an
Speaker 1: opportunity for Kyrie to run second side action or for
Speaker 1: them to move the ball a little bit more, they're
Speaker 1: getting good, better stuff out of that, and you're seeing
Speaker 1: that reflected in the offensive ratings. But I just I
Speaker 1: thought they were literally the worst watching basketball this season
Speaker 1: for a guy like us, for guys like us who
Speaker 1: have to watch it and have to watch the good teams.
Speaker 1: I hated watching them the most because it was just
Speaker 1: so predictable. And I love Luca, but television product, it
Speaker 1: was just so every possession looked the same. Adding Kyrie
Speaker 1: to this mix has made it a must watch team
Speaker 1: for me, and that's just a testament to the way
Speaker 1: that he's kind of made their offense more palatable, and
Speaker 1: I think it invigorates the team. Like in that game,
Speaker 1: that comeback game against Minnesota, or Anthony Edwards and Jada
Speaker 1: McDaniels shut them down on the final possession, the energy
Speaker 1: that was flowing through that arena as Kylie Kyrie led
Speaker 1: that comeback was palpable, and I think that there's there's
Speaker 1: something to be said about stagnation and the effect it
Speaker 1: has on the energy of off ball players versus pace
Speaker 1: and tempo and movement in the way that keeps players engaged.
Speaker 1: I think Kyrie has been monumentally good for them offensively.
Speaker 1: Now the defensive end is going to be a problem,
Speaker 1: but that was never going to be something they could
Speaker 1: address within this season. That's gonna be something they can
Speaker 1: look at this offseason. And the beauty of it is
Speaker 1: because of how damn good Kyrie Irving and Luca don Chajar.
Speaker 1: You can do things like get severely offensive limited players
Speaker 1: offensively limited players because they're pull up shooters, does lucas
Speaker 1: such a half court surgeon. You can go after front
Speaker 1: court players that have severe offensive deficiencies that specialize in
Speaker 1: what they like. A guy like Stanley Johnson might be
Speaker 1: someone they look at even within this season to shore
Speaker 1: them up on the wing. But they need they need
Speaker 1: to reform the front court in the offseason to have
Speaker 1: a real chance to compete. But I love this deal
Speaker 1: simply because of the fact that it makes them such
Speaker 1: a more fun and fluid offensive basketball team. I completely
Speaker 1: agree that The offensive fit is dreamlike, and that's how
Speaker 1: I thought it would look, and in practice it's been perfect.
Speaker 1: I mean, Kyrie is the ideal compliment to Luca, and
Speaker 1: there were some people who were talking about how they
Speaker 1: thought it was two ball dominant guards playing together, which
Speaker 1: it really isn't. And we've seen Kyrie consistently play that
Speaker 1: complimentary role to a more ball dominant star, if it's Lebron,
Speaker 1: if it's playing with both Harden and Katie. He is
Speaker 1: that quicker decision maker. He is obviously a brilliant isolation
Speaker 1: and pick and roll scorer who can attack mismatches and
Speaker 1: go get you a bucket quickly. And he's also a
Speaker 1: great spot up player. And you know he's even increased
Speaker 1: his volume there obviously playing alongside Luca, and he was
Speaker 1: an eighty eighth percentile spot up guy this season in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: So I think that the fit is great. There. You
Speaker 1: mentioned how brilliant they've been offensively. I do think, though,
Speaker 1: if you're expecting Dallas to contend this season, it's not
Speaker 1: going to happen because of what you laid out. I
Speaker 1: thought that that game against Minnesota was a defensive abomination,
Speaker 1: and I think that overall, we've seen them unable to
Speaker 1: stop people at the point of attack and then unable
Speaker 1: to challenge them at the rim. Like since they added Kyrie,
Speaker 1: they're allowing a posting teams to shoot seventy five percent
Speaker 1: inside five feet Jason, worse than any other team in
Speaker 1: the league, and they're allowing the most makes per game
Speaker 1: in that area. Because it's like Christian Wood with his
Speaker 1: limited drop coverage is not intimidating anybody. Dwight Powell is
Speaker 1: not intimidating anybody, especially when you're dealing with two liabilities
Speaker 1: at the point of attack. You have to play for
Speaker 1: thirty five minutes to night because they're by so far
Speaker 1: your best players. So I agree with you. I think
Speaker 1: this is a move that you look at as being
Speaker 1: a potential elevator into contention for next year because they
Speaker 1: have movable contracts with THHJ, maybe Britons, you can attach
Speaker 1: a pick and get off that money. At least. Reggie
Speaker 1: Bullock is another like mid level size contractor, though I
Speaker 1: think they probably want to keep him and they've got
Speaker 1: a couple of expirings this year, so it's concerning to
Speaker 1: me still being invested in Kyrie as good as he
Speaker 1: may be at basketball, it's just frightening to have him
Speaker 1: on an expiring deal and you never know when the
Speaker 1: volatility is going to come into play, and they're not
Speaker 1: good enough yet, and so that's what's a bit scary,
Speaker 1: is that it's no like, oh man, well, if Kyrie
Speaker 1: goes insane after this year, at least we had our
Speaker 1: shot at a title. Because they don't have that shot
Speaker 1: at a title yet. They're twenty fourth and defensive rating.
Speaker 1: We've never seen a team that bad on that end
Speaker 1: make the finals, and so I think the precedent there
Speaker 1: is clear. But they are really good offensively and you're right,
Speaker 1: I mean, if they shore up the wings down the line, yes,
Speaker 1: then this absolutely could be a true contending team. That's
Speaker 1: super interesting. Like I'm making the case for Kyrie as
Speaker 1: a long term upside, and the long term element is
Speaker 1: what's so terrifying about Kyrie. Now. I will say that
Speaker 1: I think Mark Cuban is crazy enough to give him
Speaker 1: what he wants, and I also think that there are
Speaker 1: severe limitations for other teams to obtaining him because sign
Speaker 1: and trades gets super complicated from the standpoint of like hardcapping.
Speaker 1: You so, like like if the Lakers wanted them. It's
Speaker 1: like you've got kind of two options. Like if Anthony
Speaker 1: Davis plays awesome down the stretch of the season, you
Speaker 1: look to maybe do a sign and trade deal with
Speaker 1: De'angela Russell, but then you have to get the Mavericks
Speaker 1: on board, so you might have to give up picks.
Speaker 1: And then now even if you do a double sign
Speaker 1: and trade with Dillo and Kyrie, you're immediately hardcapping yourself,
Speaker 1: which limits your ability this offseason to add talent around
Speaker 1: those guys. There's a bunch of like different elements that
Speaker 1: make it super complicated, and I think it really just
Speaker 1: comes down to Mark Cuban writes the check after the season,
Speaker 1: so I'm less worried about that. Um. The one last
Speaker 1: thing that I thought you said that was super interesting
Speaker 1: before we move on, is that spotting up part. You know,
Speaker 1: Spencer Dinwoody was a good off ball option in Dallas,
Speaker 1: and there are there are nights where he looks like
Speaker 1: an All Star, but the one gigantic chasm, and I
Speaker 1: do think Hyrie is a much better on ball player
Speaker 1: than Dinwoody. That goes without saying, but where an even
Speaker 1: larger chasm exists, as in that spotting up element, because
Speaker 1: Spencer Dinwoody is very streaky jump shooter and in this
Speaker 1: spot up situations is someone that defenses feel at least
Speaker 1: somewhat comfortable conceding shots too, whereas with Kyrie Irving, it's
Speaker 1: like that thing's going in every single time if you
Speaker 1: leave him open. And so that that element is a
Speaker 1: huge part of their complimentary offense together. But I thought
Speaker 1: you laid it out pretty well. It's it's it's a
Speaker 1: long term upside with a player that you don't feel
Speaker 1: comfortable having a long term attachment too. And so it's
Speaker 1: going to be an interesting challenge for them. And it's
Speaker 1: like you said, it had to be long term because
Speaker 1: they couldn't get it all done this year. They had
Speaker 1: two clear needs on this roster, really high level second
Speaker 1: creator and then that front court defense, and they had
Speaker 1: to compromise one of those, giving up Dorian Finney Smith
Speaker 1: to then gain a much better player in the category.
Speaker 1: That is probably, well, I don't know if it's more
Speaker 1: important to their long term ceiling. I think they really
Speaker 1: need both, but Kyrie is that first building block you
Speaker 1: hope alongside Luca. But man, does it scare me because
Speaker 1: you just don't know, dude. I mean, he teamed up
Speaker 1: with you know, his best buddy, and then of course
Speaker 1: the Nets are sort of incompetent. That fell apart. He
Speaker 1: left Lebron James and three straight finals to go to
Speaker 1: you know, the most talented young core in the league,
Speaker 1: and then wasn't happy with that, Like, it's just a
Speaker 1: really scary guy to be invested in. So we will
Speaker 1: see how that plays out over the home stretch of
Speaker 1: this season and the coming years. But we just mentioned
Speaker 1: having to rant his buddy, who obviously is now in Phoenix,
Speaker 1: So Jason, we have not seen Katie on the floor
Speaker 1: for the Suns yet, but I think the expectations are
Speaker 1: obviously very high. Is this a finals or bust season
Speaker 1: for them? I don't think so. Now. I do think,
Speaker 1: unlike Dallas, I think they have a real chance to
Speaker 1: win the title this year. I've said this before, but
Speaker 1: I think I think they are the worst perimeter defense
Speaker 1: out of any serious NBA Finals contender. For instance, like
Speaker 1: even the Lakers are like, oh, D'Angelo Russell and Molique Beasley. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but Jared Vanderbilt is a much better like swing nan
Speaker 1: defender than anybody who's playing for the Phoenix Suns right now,
Speaker 1: right So like they like in terms of teams that
Speaker 1: you're looking at there, they just don't have anybody that
Speaker 1: contain it, can contain the ball. Chris Paul at this
Speaker 1: phase of his career struggles with quicker guards, and so
Speaker 1: it's one of those things where I do think that
Speaker 1: they're flawed and they're I do not have them as
Speaker 1: my favorite this year under any stretch of imagination. However,
Speaker 1: like Devin Booker's twenty six, DeAndre Ayton's twenty four locked
Speaker 1: up long term and as a tradeable contract because he's
Speaker 1: in the mid thirties for millions, Chris Paul I don't
Speaker 1: think matters much to this team's ultimate ceiling. Like I
Speaker 1: do think he'll find a way to contribute within this
Speaker 1: season and maybe a little bit next season. But I
Speaker 1: don't think even if you just completely erased him from
Speaker 1: the equation, I don't think it changes my calculus of
Speaker 1: the Sun's much at all, especially with how well guys
Speaker 1: like Joshua Cogi are playing, you know, in point of
Speaker 1: attack defense roles, which you could almost look at him
Speaker 1: as a defensive point guard for that team if they needed.
Speaker 1: And then I think Kyd's gonna age really well. I
Speaker 1: think overall, the way that his game is structured, he's
Speaker 1: going to be a very effective scorer for at least
Speaker 1: the next three to four or five seasons. So I'm
Speaker 1: not concerned about that at all. I would say though,
Speaker 1: that next season would be their best and most likely
Speaker 1: opportunity to win after they make a couple of moves
Speaker 1: on the margins, and with that will come real pressure.
Speaker 1: So next year there's gonna be some real serious pressure
Speaker 1: on Kevin Durant to get his first NBA championship outside
Speaker 1: of that Warrior's environment where he had the massive talent advantage.
Speaker 1: But I don't think I'm gonna be holding him to
Speaker 1: that standard in this season. I think that they're sort
Speaker 1: of on the border here when we're talking about finals
Speaker 1: or bust. It's not really right because they don't have
Speaker 1: an overwhelming talent advantage, and they certainly have depth concerns.
Speaker 1: They have continuity challenges just in terms of having twenty
Speaker 1: games now to get this all together. But my gut
Speaker 1: reaction when this move happened was I think this makes
Speaker 1: them my favorite out West. I still don't think that
Speaker 1: they're complete enough to pick them over Denver. Well, that
Speaker 1: was my gut reaction. Now as I'm reflected and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, we still haven't seen it. Like
Speaker 1: Denver is a well oiled machine with twenty plus games
Speaker 1: to go. Phoenix has not played basketball yet together with
Speaker 1: twenty plus games to go. So you think Kevin Duran's
Speaker 1: gonna struggle to fit in with the Suns. No, I don't.
Speaker 1: But it's more about, Okay, well, when we're looking at
Speaker 1: this wing depth, how much of a problem is that
Speaker 1: when we're looking at point of attack defense, like handling
Speaker 1: some of the dynamic guards you will have to there's
Speaker 1: actually not as many as you might think in the West.
Speaker 1: But you know, certainly as Steph Curry right, if that
Speaker 1: happens in a meaningful playoff series, I think the best
Speaker 1: option there Jordan Poole, even like you know, if Portland
Speaker 1: isn't gonna matter, but even if they had to guard
Speaker 1: like Damon aunt Simons, it's like all of those matchups
Speaker 1: would be really problematic. So I have my basketball concerns there.
Speaker 1: I obviously think Katie is unbelievable. I know you've said
Speaker 1: you think he's been the best player this season. I
Speaker 1: have zero problem with that, and I might agree the
Speaker 1: top four for me is so close between him, Jannie Yo,
Speaker 1: Kitchen Steph. I think those guys are all basketball gods.
Speaker 1: But my thought was kind of there is just an
Speaker 1: overwhelming star power factor here with like maybe the best
Speaker 1: scoring wing Tan we've ever seen with booking Kde, Like
Speaker 1: that's an unbelievable level of talent and versatility. And CP,
Speaker 1: althoughways had his struggles as a score this year, is
Speaker 1: still so effective in that playmaker tempo setter, especially if
Speaker 1: you have two just monsters to feed, like, he's going
Speaker 1: to be so great in that role in eight. And
Speaker 1: you know, if he's consistently dialed in defensively and doesn't
Speaker 1: really have an offensive burden to try to create for himself,
Speaker 1: can be this super efficient positive two way for So yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody else is matching that top four.
Speaker 1: And the question is just how far behind the rest
Speaker 1: of the contenders are they in that five through eight range,
Speaker 1: And I think the answer is clearly behind. So I
Speaker 1: don't think that they're beating the Bucks of the Celtics.
Speaker 1: I honestly don't think anybody out west is. If I
Speaker 1: were to pick somebody, it would be Denver or Golden
Speaker 1: State because I think we've seen with Golden State the
Speaker 1: two way ceiling last year. We trust their role players,
Speaker 1: Denver again, trust their top six a lot. Phoenix we
Speaker 1: don't have that level of confidence yet. But I don't know.
Speaker 1: This is a really, really, really talented basketball team at
Speaker 1: the top, So I think we should have high expectations
Speaker 1: and guess what, you may be fair to Katie. I
Speaker 1: think Katie will get grilled if they don't win a
Speaker 1: title like that may be unreasonable. I mean a title
Speaker 1: is certainly unreasonable because they shouldn't. Right, They're not as
Speaker 1: complete or as good of a basketball team we wouldn't
Speaker 1: think as Milwaukee or Boston. But that's what happens when
Speaker 1: you take things into your own hands. There's a certain
Speaker 1: subsection of people who don't like that, especially with Katie,
Speaker 1: and I think we'll hear that, well, yeah, that's where
Speaker 1: you just gotta get off Twitter. My brother, it's like yeah,
Speaker 1: like yeah, like get like he's not doing that. You're
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna face a ton of negativity on there
Speaker 1: no matter what you do. Uh, Like I mean like literally,
Speaker 1: I mean I've seen like shows like Yes Can First
Speaker 1: take talking about Lebron having pressure during this season, It's like,
Speaker 1: come on, man, are you freaking kidding me? He hasn't
Speaker 1: done enough, Jason, I hasn't done enough. Well, he hasn't
Speaker 1: done enough to apparently make your list of top four
Speaker 1: players in the league. There? Would you have him there?
Speaker 1: Have you seen the work he's done over the last
Speaker 1: three months to float that god awful Lakers roster? Have
Speaker 1: you looked into on off numbers? Have you looked at
Speaker 1: how it they've won every single one of his shifts
Speaker 1: with like fringe NBA players around him. I think he's
Speaker 1: top six. Okay, all right, I'll accept it, alexat Yeah.
Speaker 1: I have one follow up question. Okay, do the Sun's
Speaker 1: limit their ceiling if they keep the ball in Chris
Speaker 1: Paul's hands too much? Given how good of a offensive
Speaker 1: initiator Kevin Durant has met in this season, Like if
Speaker 1: they slot him into the Michael Bridges roll off the ball,
Speaker 1: doesn't that limit their offensive ceiling? Yes, unequivocally. I mean,
Speaker 1: we know that Katie is unbelievable in really any offensive role,
Speaker 1: Like we've seen him play more off ball like in
Speaker 1: Golden State. We know that he's a lethal catch and shooter.
Speaker 1: But yeah, of course, I mean he's been probably the
Speaker 1: best pick and roll weapon in basketball this year, and
Speaker 1: Book is also obviously an unbelievable pick and roll bucket
Speaker 1: getter and playmaker at this point. So yeah, those are
Speaker 1: your two guys. But I do still think there's value
Speaker 1: in being able to run actions for those guys, getting
Speaker 1: them open away from the ball. That having CP being
Speaker 1: so savvy in that role, it's just nice to have
Speaker 1: that variety and to be able to create them looks
Speaker 1: in different ways. And I think Phoenix can do that
Speaker 1: at a level for their star wings that I don't
Speaker 1: know if anybody else around the league can, So when
Speaker 1: it comes down to it, yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 1: we could SEECP get phased out a little bit. But also,
Speaker 1: I mean, he's still the lethal switch hunter man. Like,
Speaker 1: he hasn't been quite as good at his signature mid
Speaker 1: range short range shot making this year, but we know
Speaker 1: what he's done the last two playoffs. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: scoring skyrockets and he just will run pick and roll
Speaker 1: at the weakest defensive player time and again and again
Speaker 1: and get that switch and if you're play and drop,
Speaker 1: it's just oh wow, CP wants to shoot sixty five
Speaker 1: percent from midrange. Okay, so I think having that is
Speaker 1: your third guy offensively, with the ability to pick his
Speaker 1: spots as a score and with his playmaking genius. I
Speaker 1: still think CP three really helps this team. I do think.
Speaker 1: I think he helps and I think there's a role
Speaker 1: for him, especially in bench groups. I just look at
Speaker 1: it like this. I know, I know the way Kevin
Speaker 1: Durant's gonna look at this, He's gonna be like, Ahi, guys,
Speaker 1: you just keep playing ball the way you have all
Speaker 1: slide into that Kale Bridges role will make this whole
Speaker 1: thing work. I know that's what Kadi's been saying behind
Speaker 1: the scenes. I just that just seems like something he
Speaker 1: would do. And the way I look at it is,
Speaker 1: you're right, like Devin Booker coming up in that Spain
Speaker 1: pick and roll action getting shots has worked well, Chris
Speaker 1: Paul switch hunting and doing all that stuff has worked well.
Speaker 1: But Kevin Durant is one of the small handful of players,
Speaker 1: like the two or three players in the league this
Speaker 1: year or every team in the NBA has been like
Speaker 1: trapped every one of his pick and rolls, Like, we
Speaker 1: cannot allow this guy to come off of this pick
Speaker 1: and roll clean and playing four on three in the
Speaker 1: back end with Kyrie and you know, Ben Simmons and
Speaker 1: Nick Klaxton and Royce O'Neill has generated absurd offensive ratings.
Speaker 1: Just imagine if that's Chris Paul, Devin Booker, DeAndre Ayton
Speaker 1: and Joshua Cogi or whoever it is that's in that spot.
Speaker 1: I think that the ultimate offensive ceiling of this team
Speaker 1: is Kevin Durant has the damn basketball and so I'm
Speaker 1: just really curious how long it takes them to get there,
Speaker 1: because I do think they'll eventually go that route, especially
Speaker 1: when the chips are down. But like you talk about continuity,
Speaker 1: like those four on threes, you build continuity in making
Speaker 1: those quick decisions in those four on threes, and I'd
Speaker 1: like to see them get more practice with that in
Speaker 1: the coming weeks. That's just one of those like small
Speaker 1: little storylines with the Sun's offense. And I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: keeping an eye on here in the next couple months,
Speaker 1: and I think it's a very interesting one. And I
Speaker 1: think it's a good point. Right, Katie's your best player,
Speaker 1: he's your best offensive engine, and it would be interesting
Speaker 1: to see CP three back in sort of an off
Speaker 1: ball roll, which the only time we've seen in his
Speaker 1: career was Houston with as Hard But you know, I
Speaker 1: did pretty darn well and that obviously I don't think
Speaker 1: he's quite the same player he was, but great decision
Speaker 1: maker again, can be incredibly effective as a shooter. So
Speaker 1: a guy who can pick his spots and still really
Speaker 1: have a pronounced impact. Okay, we've done a lot of
Speaker 1: talking about the best in the league here Jason, of course,
Speaker 1: as we enter the home stretch. But on the flip
Speaker 1: side of that, we have the tankathon going on, which
Speaker 1: is inevitable in today's NBA, but especially this year given
Speaker 1: the prizes at the top of the draft that have
Speaker 1: been discussed so much. With Victor Wamanyama and with Scoot Jason,
Speaker 1: we've already done a decent amount of talking about those guys.
Speaker 1: So I went ahead. I told you that my next
Speaker 1: favorite guy in this class is a men Thompson, the overteam, overtime,
Speaker 1: elite guy. Have you had a chance to take a
Speaker 1: look at him. What are your thoughts? Yeah, it took
Speaker 1: a look at him yesterday. Thank God for synergy makes
Speaker 1: it a lot easier to get a good get to
Speaker 1: get a good feel for these players in a short
Speaker 1: amount of time. You know, I think he's one of
Speaker 1: the best wing prospects I've seen in a long time.
Speaker 1: From the standpoint of his physical tools, he's extremely raw.
Speaker 1: The jump shot has miles and miles to go, Like,
Speaker 1: he's not just missing shots, he's missing him badly. There's
Speaker 1: gonna be need to be tweaks to the form. There's
Speaker 1: a little bit of stuff with like the way he
Speaker 1: sees the floor. He like just flies into into packed
Speaker 1: paints without really making reads of where the help is
Speaker 1: and he'll turn the basketball over and a lot of
Speaker 1: young basketball players stuff there. But just strictly from the
Speaker 1: standpoint of his physical tools, you know, we see a
Speaker 1: lot of like really twitchy and springy wings, and he
Speaker 1: obviously has that twitch and he's got that spring. But
Speaker 1: what he has that I find super fascinating is he's
Speaker 1: got that like downhill element, like that real straight line
Speaker 1: power going downhill that we don't see from a lot
Speaker 1: of wings these days, you know, And I think that
Speaker 1: that we've seen that so much, especially in playoff basketball,
Speaker 1: like just Andrew Wiggins and his ability to like rip
Speaker 1: through and drop a shoulder into the center's chest and
Speaker 1: make like a little floater in the lane like that
Speaker 1: sort of like downhill rim pressure from the wing position
Speaker 1: I think is super valuable. And even though he doesn't
Speaker 1: see the four super well yet, he does dribble extremely
Speaker 1: well for a player his size, And he's got a
Speaker 1: one of the nastiest hesitation move first step combinations that
Speaker 1: I've seen. Like you'll put that ball into his right
Speaker 1: hand kind of sitting at high heasy for a second,
Speaker 1: and he'll hit the jets and there's like a ridiculous
Speaker 1: first step. He's got that Lebron off arm thing where
Speaker 1: he extends that left arm out and just starts clearing space.
Speaker 1: And like you're watching these guys in the footage that
Speaker 1: I've been watching really sitting on his drive because he
Speaker 1: can't shoot, and he's still just getting persistent rim pressure
Speaker 1: as a downhill guy. This is what drew me so
Speaker 1: much to Anthony Edwards was that real nation of downhill
Speaker 1: power with his vertical athleticism is pull up, jump shooting
Speaker 1: and all those different things. That's something that I've been
Speaker 1: placing a lot of value on around the league. I mean,
Speaker 1: even just shake Gil just Alexander is one of my
Speaker 1: favorite guards because of his persistent ability to get to
Speaker 1: the rim like that I've just especially in playoff basketball
Speaker 1: and the way that warps defenses and the way the
Speaker 1: defenses are kind of spread out these days. I put
Speaker 1: a lot of value to that. Now it's got a lot,
Speaker 1: like I said, a lot of stuff. He's got to
Speaker 1: clean up. The jumper's got like he's going to have
Speaker 1: to have like a five year plan to fix his
Speaker 1: jump shot, like it's it's that far away and the
Speaker 1: floor vision stuff. You know what's funny is he actually
Speaker 1: impresses me as a passer from the standpoint of like
Speaker 1: these rifle cross court passes because he that he can
Speaker 1: throw over the top of the defense. But he struggles
Speaker 1: a little bit with the with the pile driving into
Speaker 1: just you know, throngs of people and turning the basketball over.
Speaker 1: I I find I like, this is a guy that
Speaker 1: you'd probably look at as a potential number one pick
Speaker 1: and other drafts in recent NBA history, just because that
Speaker 1: physical profile at the wing. Dude, he's kind of he's
Speaker 1: got wide shoulders and he's already filled out pretty well too,
Speaker 1: Like he was. It was kind of jarring to watch
Speaker 1: because I just haven't seen a wing prospect like that
Speaker 1: in a long time. He's incredibly unique. I think, like
Speaker 1: first off, probably along with his twin brother, by the way, who,
Speaker 1: for those who don't know, was maybe also going to
Speaker 1: be a top five pick in this class of sar
Speaker 1: is that the guy that I kept seeing on the
Speaker 1: footage where I thought it was Yes, This guy looks
Speaker 1: exactly like Yes. And they wear one in zero, so yeah,
Speaker 1: and they're actually pretty similar basketball players. There's a few
Speaker 1: differences that I think makes a man a better prospect,
Speaker 1: primarily in my opinion that I love his playmaking ceiling,
Speaker 1: and I think I've been more impressed by his vision
Speaker 1: than you. I do agree sometimes he just sort of
Speaker 1: barrels into traffic. And I also think the key with
Speaker 1: him all around is Paul is right. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think his handle needs to be a little bit tighter
Speaker 1: and better in traffic. He needs to be a better finisher,
Speaker 1: he needs to add like a floater element to his game.
Speaker 1: And his jump shot is not polished. It's broken. It's
Speaker 1: as you said, I mean, needs to be completely reworked mechanically,
Speaker 1: especially given that he doesn't even have like natural touch
Speaker 1: to carry it. So not only is his lower body
Speaker 1: totally out of whack, and I think at times his
Speaker 1: follow through he just doesn't have that touch to begin with.
Speaker 1: Like he's not a good free throw shooter, so that
Speaker 1: is going to be a huge swing factor for him.
Speaker 1: But you have this six seven superathlete, I mean, unbelievably
Speaker 1: in terms of quickness, unbelievable in terms of vertical ability.
Speaker 1: Who is this insane pure passer, Like you talk about
Speaker 1: the ability to rifle stuff one hand, It is incredible,
Speaker 1: and he's very inventive, like no looks jump passes. He
Speaker 1: disguises them well, and he's accurate. He's consistently accurate at
Speaker 1: leveled it. If you saw from any NBA guard, you'd
Speaker 1: be like, oh wow. I mean, that guy's a playmaker
Speaker 1: and is at six seven, so he can see so much.
Speaker 1: He sees over the top of a lot of these defenders,
Speaker 1: and I do think his vision is generally pretty good.
Speaker 1: I think that I actually kind of like that, although
Speaker 1: he's this super athlete, he does do a nice job
Speaker 1: of playing at a relatively controlled pace. I think, not
Speaker 1: to say that he's perfect, blown away by the way
Speaker 1: he handled ball pressure and What I like is he
Speaker 1: sort of has that natural NBA tempo, like you need
Speaker 1: to have change in pace, right look at Jaw. I
Speaker 1: mean he's the master of trapping guys behind him and
Speaker 1: still hitting the floaters and all that on top of
Speaker 1: being this insane pure athlete. But and then I think
Speaker 1: has some of those tools. He comes around his screen,
Speaker 1: he gets his hanging dribble and he's sort of surveys, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know what is this pick and roll coverage? Am
Speaker 1: I going to have the lab here? Am I going
Speaker 1: to have a shooter? And I think given his athleticism,
Speaker 1: given his passing ability, it's good that he sees the
Speaker 1: floor that way and has that point guard mindset. Like
Speaker 1: I think he loves playmaking and I think that he
Speaker 1: looks to do it consistently. So I think you said
Speaker 1: it very well. Oh. Also, by the way, this is
Speaker 1: the guy who I think is a very high two
Speaker 1: way ceiling like great lateral athlete, long, really good ball
Speaker 1: instincts and generally pretty committed to that end. And he's
Speaker 1: a transition monster. As I'm sure anybody can imagine this
Speaker 1: six seven insane athlete handling the ball running the floor
Speaker 1: as a wing just lethal there. So if you PLoP
Speaker 1: this guy in like twenty twenty with Ant who was
Speaker 1: this incredible athlete but was a flawed prospect, I think
Speaker 1: playmaking questions, defensive consistency questions, all that, Yeah, he'd be
Speaker 1: right up there for the number one prospect. He's an
Speaker 1: insane ceiling. He can be this six seven, hyper athletic
Speaker 1: playmaking machine who, if he even has a competent jump
Speaker 1: shot I think is moving into that potentially superstar range.
Speaker 1: And even if he doesn't, I think his defense and
Speaker 1: his playmaking and his athleticism give him like a starter
Speaker 1: level floor. It's hard if he can't shoot in this league.
Speaker 1: But it's like you said, I mean sometimes it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: You could drop and you can sit on his drives
Speaker 1: and he might still beat you. So I really really
Speaker 1: like a man. And again, like, you don't have to
Speaker 1: be a great jump shooter if you're great at everything else.
Speaker 1: What you need is like a base like anything in
Speaker 1: the low thirties, Yeah, is gonna be if he is
Speaker 1: a willing shooter. Like that's the thing that everyone that
Speaker 1: I wish Ben Simmons could figure out, Like, dude, no
Speaker 1: one's expecting you to go shoot forty percent. They're like,
Speaker 1: but you have to have a you. And what I
Speaker 1: have liked about a man is he's he is an
Speaker 1: aggressive jump shooter. Like he's taking them things. He's just
Speaker 1: not making you know what I mean. So like like
Speaker 1: like he will he will take a step back three
Speaker 1: and he will if if you sag way off at him,
Speaker 1: he will rise up and shoot. He does have the
Speaker 1: um he does have to wear withal and the willingness
Speaker 1: to take the shot. He just needs to get up
Speaker 1: to a certain point. And in NBA offenses, they're gonna
Speaker 1: find a way to make him useful because he does
Speaker 1: everything else so well, because he pass us so well,
Speaker 1: because he can handle ball pressure and bring the ball
Speaker 1: up the floor. He can you know, get you into
Speaker 1: your offense in that sense, like that transition threat. There's
Speaker 1: gonna be so many other ways that he can impact
Speaker 1: the game. Just has to reach that baseline level. And
Speaker 1: if he goes you know three overall and ends up
Speaker 1: in some situation where he can take three four years
Speaker 1: to really grow, there's no pressure involved with it. I
Speaker 1: think that was an underrated element of the Ben Simmons thing,
Speaker 1: as they were so damn good right away with Joe
Speaker 1: LMB that he was pressured into his weakness as being
Speaker 1: hyper analyzed right away. You know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: no one's gonna no one's gonna care if Jade and
Speaker 1: Ivy is sitting in Detroit running pick and rolls at
Speaker 1: zero point six five points per possession for two years
Speaker 1: because he's in the Detroit He's with the Detroit Pistons,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So like that's that's where
Speaker 1: that that leeway is bought. But I will say in
Speaker 1: this particular draft, coming into next season, I understand now
Speaker 1: why you know, why the Jazz made the deal they
Speaker 1: did at the deadline to Danny Age, getting them down
Speaker 1: into a situation where they can tank a little more.
Speaker 1: I can see now why Oklahoma City with that kind
Speaker 1: of like low, let's trade Mike Muscala out of here
Speaker 1: kind of deal where it's like, there's just a very
Speaker 1: good chance of you getting a very good player at
Speaker 1: the top of this draft. And it's just not something
Speaker 1: that we see very often. Yeah, but I will say
Speaker 1: every year, especially over the last few it feels like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, what an incredible draft class, because prospects
Speaker 1: are getting better. Like to think about the combination we
Speaker 1: had last year Pallo's this six ten, freakish, high level
Speaker 1: ball handler, difficult shotmaker, playmaker while he's you know, two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty pounds and super athletic. And Chet is
Speaker 1: this insane rim protector seven foot who can also shoot
Speaker 1: forty percent from deep and his quick positionally and a
Speaker 1: comfortable handling the ball. And the year before that we
Speaker 1: have Kade, who's this incredible big ball handlers, shotmaker, playmaker,
Speaker 1: had it all as a prospect, Evan Mobley, insane defense
Speaker 1: of weapon with legit offensive skill. It's like prospects are
Speaker 1: just getting better. The game is evolving, and big picture,
Speaker 1: I'm incredibly excited for how that looks because a six
Speaker 1: seven guy before, I don't know, maybe wouldn't have had
Speaker 1: that kind of ball handling responsibility, the kind of time
Speaker 1: to build up that playmaking potentially a guy like him
Speaker 1: and Thompson has, So it's very exciting. I'm excited for
Speaker 1: this draft and it's nice to have that on top
Speaker 1: of an incredibly exciting home stretch to this NBA season.
Speaker 1: Have you watched any Browny James a little bit? Did
Speaker 1: you see that thing this morning from ESPN that Jonathan
Speaker 1: Givoni sees him as a top ten draft prospect. That
Speaker 1: surprises me, But I would have to dig in more
Speaker 1: to confidently speak. I do know that people are getting
Speaker 1: higher on Brawny as a legit prospect. I the one
Speaker 1: thing that was interesting to me there is like the
Speaker 1: focal points where his perimeter shooting in his on ball defense,
Speaker 1: which are two things that I've seen in the little
Speaker 1: bits and pieces that I've watched of him. But like
Speaker 1: to have a guard that isn't considered like a star
Speaker 1: level initiator to be considered a top ten pick feels
Speaker 1: a little bit of a stretch to me. So I
Speaker 1: when we get to the point where I don't know
Speaker 1: who he's going to sign with, I'm not even sure
Speaker 1: if he's picked to school yet. I think he's still undecided.
Speaker 1: But like, when I do get an opportunity to watch
Speaker 1: him in college, that's going to be the number one
Speaker 1: thing I'm watching because that's going to be the thing
Speaker 1: at the guard position that's going to be a prerequisite
Speaker 1: to him being a lottery pick in my opinion. All right, guys,
Speaker 1: that is all we have for today. As always, we
Speaker 1: sincerely appreciate your support. We're going to be starting things
Speaker 1: back up tomorrow night on AMP right after the final
Speaker 1: buzzer of Lakers Warriors, and then it's going to be
Speaker 1: a grind for the next three and a half months,
Speaker 1: tons and tons of basketball. We are very very excited
Speaker 1: the U