Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Woka f Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Bunker, Folks.
Speaker 1: I am fucking pissed. I am pissed at the fact
Speaker 1: that I am losing literal sleep, that I am feeling
Speaker 1: emotionally unwell, that I have friends and family telling me
Speaker 1: that their young ones are afraid to go to school,
Speaker 1: that they are terrified that a bad man is going
Speaker 1: to come and get them, and that there is no way,
Speaker 1: no way for those that are caring for young children,
Speaker 1: for parents and caregivers to be able to tell children
Speaker 1: that they are safe, because it would be a fucking lie.
Speaker 1: And why is that so? Why do we now have
Speaker 1: to lie to our children to tell them though no, no,
Speaker 1: no one's going to come into your school. How do
Speaker 1: you say that we have to lie to them? Because otherwise,
Speaker 1: what's the alternative for them to live in a consistent
Speaker 1: state of fear, which they already have, for them to
Speaker 1: develop serious emotional and mental illness, depression, anxiety, grief. We
Speaker 1: are asking fourth graders to cover themselves in the blood
Speaker 1: of their friends because our lawmakers are craven, fucking cowards.
Speaker 1: I am so filled with rage. Garnel Whitfield testified before
Speaker 1: Congress following the murder, the massacre of his mother, Ruth Whitfield,
Speaker 1: and nine other black people at a Tops grocery store,
Speaker 1: and he said, he said to the people there, this
Speaker 1: is there nothing that you personally are willing to do
Speaker 1: to stop the cancer of white supremacy and domestic terrorism?
Speaker 1: It inspires because if there is nothing, then you should
Speaker 1: yield your positions. How is it that we elect these
Speaker 1: people to be the voice right of their constituents and
Speaker 1: they turn a non listening ear, they turn their backs.
Speaker 1: We have people in this country parents going into a
Speaker 1: medical examiner's office waiting on samples of DNA because they
Speaker 1: don't have bodies that are solid enough to be able
Speaker 1: to identify their fucking kids. Because of an AAR fifteen.
Speaker 1: You have members of cong saying things like, well, we
Speaker 1: didn't ban planes after nine to eleven, No, you fucking asshole,
Speaker 1: we didn't. But you know what we did do institute
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of really fucking annoying things that we
Speaker 1: have to go through in order to get on a plane,
Speaker 1: like pat downs, like X rays, like taking your shoes off,
Speaker 1: like not bringing on any liquids over three ounces. Those
Speaker 1: would be the equivalence of the fucking background checks that
Speaker 1: you need in order to get on a plane because
Speaker 1: it was used as a weapon. But when we have
Speaker 1: actual weapons of war that are used on a daily
Speaker 1: basis to sacrifice the lives of our children, we say, well,
Speaker 1: that's just par for the course, that's just what it
Speaker 1: means to grow up in America. Tell those kids to
Speaker 1: pull themselves up by their bootstraps and go buy a
Speaker 1: bulletproof backpack. What the fuck I am losing the ability
Speaker 1: to have calm and collected conversation when all I see
Speaker 1: everywhere is gaslight and bullshit, and Democrats in the media
Speaker 1: just continue to fucking eat it up. I am so
Speaker 1: sick and goddamn tired of listening to journalists allow craven, evil,
Speaker 1: heartless Republicans say, well, it's the Second Amendment. What about
Speaker 1: our fucking kids? How in God's name do you still
Speaker 1: refer to yourself as pro life when you gare more
Speaker 1: about a collection of cells than you do about the
Speaker 1: dreams and aspirations of third and fourth graders, of kindergartners
Speaker 1: in Newtown, of high schoolers in Parkland. You don't care
Speaker 1: So let's stop pretending that we don't know what is
Speaker 1: in these people's hearts when their actions tell us each
Speaker 1: and every day what is. It's not that they believe
Speaker 1: that they don't have the power to do mighty thing.
Speaker 1: It's that they don't want to. And every time that
Speaker 1: I here, reporters say, well, how are democrats gonna sell
Speaker 1: gun reform? How about just sending them the pictures of
Speaker 1: the nineteen children's bodies. How about delivering nineteen handcrafted, hand colored,
Speaker 1: fucking caskets to their offices. How about just piling up
Speaker 1: the fucking National Mall with bodybags. We're talking about, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's not civilized to protests at the doors of justices.
Speaker 1: Fuck you, because here's the thing. If I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: feel safe in this country, if that freedom has been
Speaker 1: taken away from me because of their desire for a
Speaker 1: second Amendment, then I'm gonna tell you this right the
Speaker 1: fuck now, No one ain't gonna feel safe nowhere, No one,
Speaker 1: because that is the climate that they are creating in
Speaker 1: this country. Supreme Court just passes yet another fucking piece
Speaker 1: of law that says that citizens can't fucking sue federal
Speaker 1: agencies and governments know because I guess we have no
Speaker 1: rights in this country. And what happens when people feel
Speaker 1: like they have no power rage riots, and that will
Speaker 1: be their justification for more violence against communities that they
Speaker 1: didn't give a fuck about. Any Way, Folks, when I
Speaker 1: tell you each and every show that things are going
Speaker 1: to get bloodier before they get better, I feel that
Speaker 1: each and every day, and it's what is keeping me
Speaker 1: up at night. I just sit around going through Twitter two, three,
Speaker 1: four o'clock in the morning, just waiting for the next pang,
Speaker 1: waiting for the next headline. I don't know why, because
Speaker 1: it's not as if it helps me prepare emotionally. I
Speaker 1: feel like we have lost our grip, not only on reality,
Speaker 1: but on what it means to be an empathetic human.
Speaker 1: We have allowed corporate interest, the uber wealthy, and white sis,
Speaker 1: hetero white evangelical Christians to run amuck with their toxic,
Speaker 1: fragile masculinity across this country. We have done nothing. Garnell
Speaker 1: Whitfield said, Buffalo should have never happened because you've known
Speaker 1: about the rise of white domestic terrorism for decades, dare
Speaker 1: I say centuries? Then you have white members of Congress
Speaker 1: saying well, we don't need special laws, no, because why
Speaker 1: would they want to have their base targeted. But instead
Speaker 1: of reporters turning around and saying, why is it that
Speaker 1: you are embracing white supremacists and white supremacy, why don't
Speaker 1: you see that as a threat to the whole entity
Speaker 1: of America. But we need to stop asking people who
Speaker 1: have shown us who they are to pretend that they
Speaker 1: are something different than what they have shown. But here's
Speaker 1: the thing that I'm going to say that every single
Speaker 1: Democrat that has not been using their voice, their power,
Speaker 1: their platforms to speak out against Republicans, and I mean
Speaker 1: all Republicans. And I don't mean to part in fucking
Speaker 1: parcel who you think is good or rational that has left,
Speaker 1: because there ain't any. If you voted with Donald Trump
Speaker 1: nine percent of the time, you are one of them.
Speaker 1: You are part of the fucking problem. The only reason
Speaker 1: why folks are holding up Liz Cheney and Adam Kissinger
Speaker 1: is because they have literally been exercised from the Republican
Speaker 1: Party because the one thing that they choose not to
Speaker 1: believe in is the Big Lie, but they believe in
Speaker 1: everything else. I just I have had it. I have
Speaker 1: had it I've had it this week. I've had it
Speaker 1: this time. I've had it with this country, and I
Speaker 1: want to say that it is worth fighting for. But
Speaker 1: in all honesty, I'm like, the only reason I don't
Speaker 1: want it to burn to the ground is because I
Speaker 1: don't want the good people to go down. But there's
Speaker 1: clearly going to be no way right that that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1: As doctor Brittany Cooper told us weeks ago, they can't
Speaker 1: kill all of us. They go and try, but they can.
Speaker 1: So when the dust settles, whether it's five, ten, twenty
Speaker 1: years from now, we'll have some people will be around
Speaker 1: to rebuild. Who that is, I don't know. Coming up
Speaker 1: next my conversation with our friend, our in house doctor,
Speaker 1: doctor Jonathan Metzo, author of Dying of Whiteness. Get a
Speaker 1: behind the scenes look at Comedy Central's The Daily Show
Speaker 1: on Beyond the Scenes, an original podcast from The Daily
Speaker 1: Show with Trevor Noah. Every week, host Roy Wood Junior
Speaker 1: goes deeper with the notable guests and experts from the
Speaker 1: Emmy Award winning series. Together, they use comedy to tackle
Speaker 1: current topics from gentrification to gun laws, and take a
Speaker 1: closer look at how and why these topics matter. Listen
Speaker 1: to Beyond the Scenes from the Daily Show with Trevor
Speaker 1: Noah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcast. New episodes every Tuesday. The Damage Report
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Speaker 1: your podcast. If you like what you hear, be sure
Speaker 1: to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Folks, you
Speaker 1: know that when it is Wednesday, I always have a
Speaker 1: lovely opportunity to delve into all of the horrible things
Speaker 1: that are happening in America with our soothsayer, uh, doctor
Speaker 1: Jonathan Metzel, author of Dying of Whiteness, who is headed
Speaker 1: out folks on his European world tour to talk about
Speaker 1: how America is crumbling. So Jonathan, first, tell us, UM,
Speaker 1: tell us about where you're where you're headed in the
Speaker 1: in the coming weeks um and why um, and then
Speaker 1: we can delve into where we are here in this
Speaker 1: godforsaken place. Well, I'm going to to Denmark and Sweden.
Speaker 1: There's a bunch of conferences about kind of the future
Speaker 1: of global democracy um. And people really want to know,
Speaker 1: like what the hell is going on with the United States.
Speaker 1: And so I'm going to be talking about the politics
Speaker 1: of racial resentment um in a conference in Sweden. And
Speaker 1: then I'll be going to Copenhagen. If anybody has any recommendations, UM,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna like walk around and UM, I won't
Speaker 1: make a joke. I'll just say I'll walk around in
Speaker 1: an environment where there are fewer firearms than there are um.
Speaker 1: And and and so that'll that'll be nice. Um. And
Speaker 1: then yeah, so it'll be kind of a Scandinavian vacation,
Speaker 1: but also a sense to kind of talk about America
Speaker 1: and also being in a society where there people actually
Speaker 1: pay taxes for government services, um, and so I'm kind
Speaker 1: of curious to talk to people about the healthcare system
Speaker 1: and public safety and things like that. So let me
Speaker 1: ask you this, because I'm curious, how do you express
Speaker 1: racial resentment to us, like in a society where maybe
Speaker 1: I'm wrong that there isn't a lot of racial diversity,
Speaker 1: maybe there's ethnic diversity. I'm not super familiar, but when
Speaker 1: I obviously when I hear Denmark and Sweden, I think white, white, white.
Speaker 1: So how how do you even begin to explain the
Speaker 1: issues of racial resentment that they see in the headlines
Speaker 1: and on the news happening in America? If I can
Speaker 1: report live back, I will do that because I'm curious
Speaker 1: about that question myself. Scandinavia has a lot of tensions
Speaker 1: about immigration rights, and it is a more much more
Speaker 1: homogeneous place, but there also are different diversities within race, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about Sweden, for example, there
Speaker 1: are white people called Sammy's who live in the north
Speaker 1: of Sweden near the Russian border, for example, but they're
Speaker 1: consider second class citizens. I mean, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: diversity within the category of white. So it's not like
Speaker 1: our racial categories are transported. But it's not like that
Speaker 1: means that there are no divisions or hierarchies. So but
Speaker 1: but I'm curious about that myself. I mean, the thing
Speaker 1: everybody wants to know about across the world is kind
Speaker 1: of why do Americans vote against what seemed to us
Speaker 1: to be self interest? Yeah, I think that that's kind
Speaker 1: of the question, is like, how is political division used
Speaker 1: to have people vote against their own healthcare or any
Speaker 1: kind of common sense safety reform or anything like that.
Speaker 1: And so we'd love to see I mean, it'll be interesting.
Speaker 1: This is my really, my first sustained time in Scandinavia.
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of work in the Middle East.
Speaker 1: I do a lot of work with Israel policine physicians
Speaker 1: for human rights, and I'll be going back to the
Speaker 1: Middle East towards the end of the summer. And for me,
Speaker 1: that's a much you know, it's a different conversation. But
Speaker 1: there's obviously I mean, American political division is kind of
Speaker 1: an export act, right, and so a lot of people
Speaker 1: who are stirring up problems in the US in terms
Speaker 1: of you know, the Fox News kind offenders and things
Speaker 1: like that, are also really active in conflict zones across
Speaker 1: the mood. So let's see it. Yeah, I'll be I'm
Speaker 1: very yeah, I'll be really interested, um to to do
Speaker 1: an in depth conversation when you return, and you can
Speaker 1: share with us, um what what you've heard and what
Speaker 1: you've learned, and honestly what what the fears may be
Speaker 1: that are shared, fears that are happening globally as it
Speaker 1: pertains to UM to democracy because um, there I think
Speaker 1: that as we talked a couple of months ago, when
Speaker 1: the report came out for the first time that the
Speaker 1: United States is a backsliding democracy, it wasn't the only one,
Speaker 1: um that there are several And so what does that
Speaker 1: mean for the safety of the world. And also if
Speaker 1: you're in Scandinavia, like you know, women in film and
Speaker 1: are getting military training now in case the Russians invade
Speaker 1: and stuff. So the world's just a very unstable place
Speaker 1: right now. So there's a there's a lot going on
Speaker 1: that just the traditional boundaries and borders that we've lived
Speaker 1: with are not since World War two are not holding
Speaker 1: up right now, So yeah, that'll be interesting. So I
Speaker 1: want to switch gears. We have a couple of things obviously,
Speaker 1: that are happening right now, Following the Buffalo massacre, following
Speaker 1: the Valdi massacre, Following all of the massacres that have
Speaker 1: happened in between those two major headline mass shootings, there
Speaker 1: have been the mass shooting that just took place in
Speaker 1: Philadelphia over the weekend, and in Chattanooga, and you know,
Speaker 1: and I don't, the list is quite is quite deep.
Speaker 1: And again for those listening, mass shootings are four or
Speaker 1: more people being killed being shot at one time, and
Speaker 1: so that just goes to show you how many of
Speaker 1: those events have happened and are continuing to happen. Jonathan.
Speaker 1: The way that the news, though right now, is reporting
Speaker 1: on these things is making it seem as if this
Speaker 1: is new. So can you tell us Is it that
Speaker 1: the coverage is like, oh, this is sensational, so we'll
Speaker 1: keep going with it, or are you, by virtue of
Speaker 1: the work and the study that you've been doing, is
Speaker 1: it an uptick right now? Well, certainly, we had a
Speaker 1: CDC report about a month ago that said that there
Speaker 1: were forty five thousand gun deaths in the United States reported.
Speaker 1: There are more in actuality in twenty twenty, and probably
Speaker 1: more over the last couple of years. So certainly we
Speaker 1: have more gun death by a magnitude of five to
Speaker 1: ten thousand, I would say a year I'm recorded, and
Speaker 1: probably many more. So there are more shootings. There are
Speaker 1: more guns because there were there was up to an
Speaker 1: eight percent rise in parts of the country and gun
Speaker 1: sales during the pandemic the first parts of the pandemic,
Speaker 1: And so I certainly think there are more guns and
Speaker 1: more shootings across the board than there than there used
Speaker 1: to be UM, and that that's just a statistical fact.
Speaker 1: But I would also say that we're just more aware
Speaker 1: of multiple victim gun homicide right now. UM. They used
Speaker 1: there's this thing called the mass shooting tractor, which everybody
Speaker 1: uses UM that tracks UM, that tracks UM for incidences
Speaker 1: where four more people get shot. And for several decades
Speaker 1: they would just use the media outlets like newspapers, and
Speaker 1: mostly newspapers, and so only new shootings that made the
Speaker 1: news were being ye and so that led to everybody thought, well,
Speaker 1: ninety percent of mass shooters are white, for example, But
Speaker 1: that wasn't the case. It's just that ninety percent of
Speaker 1: white shooter made the news. There were tons of shootings
Speaker 1: in places like what we saw this weekend, where everybody,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden was saying, there are fifteen mass
Speaker 1: shootings this weekend. Well, that's been the case in places
Speaker 1: like Chicago for a long time and other places. It's
Speaker 1: just that, um, we don't care. Gang shootings or urban
Speaker 1: shootings weren't being called mass shootings. And so what we've
Speaker 1: done over the past five years mostly is to expand
Speaker 1: the definition of what a mass shooting is. And now
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, there are many more shootings that
Speaker 1: come to the So there's two things. One is that
Speaker 1: there are more shootings, but two is that we're also
Speaker 1: reporting on multiple victims, on homicides in ways that raise awareness.
Speaker 1: So if you live in parts of Newark or Chicago,
Speaker 1: or Nashville or Florida or other places like that, those
Speaker 1: shootings have been part of daily life for a long time.
Speaker 1: It's just now now they're getting Do you think that
Speaker 1: there should be a cont like that there should be
Speaker 1: a confluence of this conversation, meaning that should we be
Speaker 1: having distinct conversations about guns. Is there a difference in
Speaker 1: your mind between and to me, there isn't. So let
Speaker 1: me just say that. But I've been hearing this conversation
Speaker 1: a lot. Should there be a difference between how we're
Speaker 1: talking about the mass shootings that we just saw in
Speaker 1: Buffalo and in Uvaldi and in El Paso and in
Speaker 1: Las Vegas and in these places versus the shootings that
Speaker 1: we see in Philadelphia, in Chicago in LA Should there
Speaker 1: be a difference in those discussions because the motivations, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, for those killings, the ones that make the
Speaker 1: headlines that we're talking about right now, are different than
Speaker 1: the motivations that happen in places like Chicago and Pennsylvania
Speaker 1: and Philly. Two words. Who HU mean honestly that all
Speaker 1: gun crime is gun crime, all gun death is gun death.
Speaker 1: The minute we use those categories, we assume we know
Speaker 1: what the motivation is. That's the problem we got into
Speaker 1: for decades in the gun control movement, which is why
Speaker 1: the gun control movement is a very narrow coalition now
Speaker 1: and not a broad coalition. From the first day this
Speaker 1: crap started happening, we should have been saying all gun
Speaker 1: victims are victims of guns of guns, and it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter because like, how do you know something's in urban
Speaker 1: shooting and not a psychological shooting. How do you know
Speaker 1: something that happens in urban Philadelphia doesn't also have a
Speaker 1: component of mental illness or something like that. So in
Speaker 1: other words, it's just a way of like not looking
Speaker 1: very closely at black victim shootings and so and now
Speaker 1: get the gun. The GVP movement it's called Gun Violence
Speaker 1: Prevention is saying, how come everybody's not on board and
Speaker 1: marching in the streets. And it's because, honestly, for twenty years,
Speaker 1: with respect to my colleagues in this movement, we've only
Speaker 1: been talking about white shooter, white victim crimes. And so
Speaker 1: dividing these up is what Coddison's trouble in the first place,
Speaker 1: and it's what we should be massively rejecting that right now. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I would say that's that's one point, um. And then
Speaker 1: and then the other part of it is just there
Speaker 1: are aspects it makes you rethink, like some of the
Speaker 1: aspects of gun control that people advocate for um, it's sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm making coffee while we talk, um. But the other
Speaker 1: aspect is um, like, think about everybody's like, oh, red
Speaker 1: flag laws for example, Like that's the main thing everybody's
Speaker 1: talking about as a compromisation. Well, what's the red flag law? Um?
Speaker 1: You actually have to petition the police and a judge
Speaker 1: to come do an assessment of your relative for your
Speaker 1: worry about That's great, it'll work, um in some instances.
Speaker 1: But um, do people really want the police coming to
Speaker 1: their house? Well there's a racial politics there. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, background checks, we need more background checks. Well,
Speaker 1: who pings on a background check? It turns out a
Speaker 1: background check you ping if you have a record of incarceration.
Speaker 1: Who's going to overping in a background checks them? So
Speaker 1: a lot of the issues that the gun control movement
Speaker 1: is based on actually are profoundly racist. And so I
Speaker 1: think that really thinking about different kinds of gun prime,
Speaker 1: different kinds of gun death, different kinds of gun trauma
Speaker 1: will help people realize that we you know, gosh, why
Speaker 1: isn't the gun control movement more broadly accepted. It's because
Speaker 1: we don't have the kind of coalition where people see
Speaker 1: gun control as a social justice issue. That's just my person,
Speaker 1: What do you think? Then? You know, because it's interesting
Speaker 1: and I brought that up because I did um a
Speaker 1: black radio earlier in or earlier in the week, and
Speaker 1: you know, and that, and it was a phil Adelphia station,
Speaker 1: and this was the question that was asked to me,
Speaker 1: you know, should there be a distinction a difference between
Speaker 1: types of shootings? And my response was if you get
Speaker 1: if you're a shot, you're shot. And I don't think
Speaker 1: it matters to the families whether it was a white
Speaker 1: supremacy shooter or it was a you know, a random
Speaker 1: shooting from a gang or whatever. It's like they're dead, right,
Speaker 1: So the problem in the country is guns. It is
Speaker 1: also in a lot of respects what we've seen is
Speaker 1: the tied up in white toxic masculinity, in white supremacy,
Speaker 1: and that being the other level problem, right, And so
Speaker 1: I wonder, I'm like, how do you like, how do
Speaker 1: we have these conversations? Because even right you know, right
Speaker 1: now this week, we're listening to testimony from from the
Speaker 1: families that lost loved ones who were murdered in Buffalo
Speaker 1: Um the ten black you know, mother's, father's, grandmother's aunties
Speaker 1: and goals that were gunned down while they were shopping
Speaker 1: UM on a Saturday morning, and so One of the
Speaker 1: things that was said was this is about white supremacy,
Speaker 1: and by the very virtue that this country, this government
Speaker 1: does not want to acknowledge, right the history and the
Speaker 1: present day rise of that is why we have instances
Speaker 1: like h Charleston at Mother Emmanuel like a buffalo, and
Speaker 1: like these other incidents of violence. And so what do
Speaker 1: you think about how we have these compacted conversations a
Speaker 1: brown guns and white supremacy. I mean, you think I
Speaker 1: was thinking about Texas also, right, because it's not like
Speaker 1: the Texas victims were white right now, but the shooter
Speaker 1: was also not white, and so I just I just
Speaker 1: think I think the problem is so pervasive, and so
Speaker 1: the question is not really about I don't know if
Speaker 1: I believe this like every town and guys like that
Speaker 1: say ninety percent of Americans support background checks on all
Speaker 1: gun sales and stuff like that. I do think there's
Speaker 1: broad support for that kind of thing. But I would
Speaker 1: also say just that the gun lobby and gun manufacturers
Speaker 1: have been so much more successful steering the shit out
Speaker 1: of people, and so race plays right into that. And
Speaker 1: I guess really this is like kind of an aside,
Speaker 1: but like it's kind of like what is the voice
Speaker 1: of the everyday person in this debate? Right, the everyday
Speaker 1: person doesn't really have a voice in a way, like
Speaker 1: all we are are victims, everybody, And that's because this
Speaker 1: debate is predetermined, right in a way, So I totally
Speaker 1: it's so brave are those people to go right now
Speaker 1: to DC and people are really speaking out in very
Speaker 1: brave and forceful and powerful ways. And at the same time,
Speaker 1: like the debate is predetermined because the NRA and other
Speaker 1: gun groups and the seventeen sixteen Project and all these
Speaker 1: gun manufactory groups stuff, they've already like they already literally
Speaker 1: owned the politicians and the judges. And so this is
Speaker 1: a question of power as much as it is a question.
Speaker 1: And this is like list to what we were talking
Speaker 1: about before. This is a question of power, and so
Speaker 1: protest is super important, but it has to translate into
Speaker 1: like a strategy for like how can we control the
Speaker 1: judges or how can we have politicians who answered us
Speaker 1: and and and it's not a crazy thing to think
Speaker 1: like if people don't vote for common sense gun reform,
Speaker 1: they're going to get elected out of office or something
Speaker 1: like that. But we don't do that. It's not a
Speaker 1: wedge issue for us. There's been a lot of polls
Speaker 1: recently the show that people protests and are angry and
Speaker 1: sad and tearful and rightly, rightly furious. But Democrats don't
Speaker 1: vote on guns as a regissue, but the Republicans do
Speaker 1: like like it, just like they can mobilize these guys
Speaker 1: on drop of a hat and get somebody primary out
Speaker 1: of office. And so in a way, there's just an
Speaker 1: imbalance of political power, which ties into race and everything
Speaker 1: we're talking about. Um. And so I guess the question
Speaker 1: at this moment is certainly about gun reform. But let's
Speaker 1: be honest, like, even if they do background checks, that
Speaker 1: the problem, we're still going to have the same problem.
Speaker 1: Um And so the question is can you mobilize a
Speaker 1: political machine that will make people pay price for not
Speaker 1: doing the right thing here? And I don't know that
Speaker 1: we're there yet, just and you know, and you've you've
Speaker 1: been in the gun reform debate for decades, and so
Speaker 1: you know, the other question that keeps being asked that
Speaker 1: I'm asked, and I know that you were asked like
Speaker 1: fifty times, you know, over the past interviews that you've
Speaker 1: been giving everywhere and writing everywhere is it. Does this
Speaker 1: tie and feel different to you? I think more people
Speaker 1: are aware. I think that there was. I think that
Speaker 1: the stakes are a lot higher for people right now,
Speaker 1: and I think people realize that there, as I was
Speaker 1: saying before, there are more guns around. The fact that
Speaker 1: there is an incredibly conservative Supreme Court really changes the
Speaker 1: stakes of this issue for anyone anywhere in this country.
Speaker 1: And so and so it does feel different in terms
Speaker 1: of the number of people who are being mobilized. I
Speaker 1: think it's also very important for the Democrats to play
Speaker 1: this right in a way that doesn't pathologize all gun owners.
Speaker 1: So the question is can they build a coalition out
Speaker 1: of this in ways that will reverse what seems to
Speaker 1: be coming down the pipe for the midterms and the
Speaker 1: next presidential election. How much are people willing to vote
Speaker 1: based on this issue. I think that the attention right
Speaker 1: now is profound and real, and it's great, as somebody
Speaker 1: who studies this to see so many people, Like, right
Speaker 1: after we talk, I'm doing a big panel for vanderboot
Speaker 1: about guns. Never thought i'd see that happen. And then
Speaker 1: I'm doing ABC News right after that. After I make
Speaker 1: my coffee here and so and so so I do
Speaker 1: think that the conversations are abroad. But I would also
Speaker 1: say there's a great sociologist, Patrick Sharkey at Princeton who
Speaker 1: studies the emotional aftermath of mass shootings, and basically people
Speaker 1: get mad for about a week at the most, and
Speaker 1: then they go back. And so the issue is going
Speaker 1: to be how can you sustain what's happening? Now? Gun
Speaker 1: owners live with their guns every day, so it's an
Speaker 1: everyday issue for them, But for non gun owners who
Speaker 1: are on our side, they pay attention after mass shootings.
Speaker 1: But then something else comes up, which is how life works.
Speaker 1: That's understandable. And so the question is and I realized,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, this is a lot of things I'm putting
Speaker 1: in all these answers, but I just want people to
Speaker 1: understand how flex all these is. Yeah, I would say,
Speaker 1: the question is how much can this be made into
Speaker 1: a right issue that will get people to vote. I
Speaker 1: guess traditionally what happens is when it comes to midterms,
Speaker 1: all these racial politics scare the crap out of people
Speaker 1: and they vote for the status quo. So the question
Speaker 1: is the answer is, now, how different is it? But
Speaker 1: really the answer won't be fully told really until the midterms. Honestly,
Speaker 1: last question for you, Jonathan is, you know, folks are
Speaker 1: really concerned about this summer, right, and shootings seem to
Speaker 1: also uptick in the summer. Right. I don't know why
Speaker 1: that is, and I'm certain that you'll you'll tell me.
Speaker 1: But here's something that I was asked and I want
Speaker 1: to pose it to you, which is people are very
Speaker 1: concerned about the Supreme Court rolling out They're very controversial decisions, right,
Speaker 1: row being on top a number one on top of that,
Speaker 1: and that people are then going to get out into
Speaker 1: the streets in the way that they did after the
Speaker 1: killing of George Floyd, Like they're going to be lots
Speaker 1: of mass demonstrations. There is concern that with people being
Speaker 1: out in the streets that we're going to see a
Speaker 1: lot of Kyle Rittenhouse incidents. Right. What are your thoughts
Speaker 1: about like this again, this conflation of issues and things
Speaker 1: that are happening. You know, you're hearing that the supposedly
Speaker 1: the FBI and others are you know, ear to the
Speaker 1: ground with concern about these decisions coming down and how
Speaker 1: folks are going to react. And I'm like, our side
Speaker 1: is not the side with guns and that is violent.
Speaker 1: So funny that you're going to have concern now, But
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts about what is on the precipice. Well,
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is we're about to hit get hit
Speaker 1: over the next couple weeks with an absolute tide of
Speaker 1: wave that is going to change America for the rest
Speaker 1: of our lives. I wish I could be sunny. It's
Speaker 1: a nice day out. It's about to happen in the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court is going to change America forever as we
Speaker 1: know it. Because it's not just Row versus Way this coming.
Speaker 1: It's also decisions about about the elect electoral process. There's
Speaker 1: a decision about um affirmative action that's almost certainly going
Speaker 1: to get overturned, and there's a massive decision about guns
Speaker 1: that could basically destroy the entire un control movement. And
Speaker 1: so it's just going to be like which protests do
Speaker 1: you want to go to? And and I think the
Speaker 1: stuff is going to come, and it's so it's so
Speaker 1: tectonic that it's almost hard to get your head around it.
Speaker 1: I study it, I still can't imagine what's about to
Speaker 1: happen here. And so the question is um, certainly violence
Speaker 1: around the protests. I mean, you know, hot weather, people
Speaker 1: out of school, a lot of guns, and a lot
Speaker 1: of really intense built tension in friction right now. Um,
Speaker 1: I would say that that that's going to be a
Speaker 1: real dangerous sign. But also just the issues themselves that
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is deciding on are also going to
Speaker 1: be really really contentious. And so I am very very
Speaker 1: very worried about about the summer and also about what
Speaker 1: the effects. We never end on a good note. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna vacation. You're going on vacation. Yeah, I'm healing
Speaker 1: a broken toe. And friend, I may tell you just
Speaker 1: stay where you are. We've been doing remote for so long.
Speaker 1: Stay you stay in Sweden. It'll probably be a hell
Speaker 1: of a lot safer than here. Well, safe travels to you, Jonathan.
Speaker 1: Hopefully we get to hear really good um you know,
Speaker 1: whether you're whether we talk to you while you're gone
Speaker 1: or when you return. Very excited to hear um the
Speaker 1: results of all of your talks and hear your report back.
Speaker 1: Thank you. And again I'm really not trying to be doom,
Speaker 1: but I do think that there's a lot of there's
Speaker 1: a lot coming down the pipe right now that people
Speaker 1: just need to get ready. I mean I am yeah
Speaker 1: by definition correct? All right, friend, We appreciate you, safe
Speaker 1: travels and we'll see you when you return. Indisputable with
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