1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I will never forget the 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: first time I had the twins at a playground and 3 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: they wanted a bottle of water. We had been out 4 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: there's really hot, and I could see them from the car, 5 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: so it may have been fifty feet. So they're at 6 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: the top of a jungle gym and I mean way 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: up there, and they're going to get on a slide. 8 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: So I walked to the car, grab the bottle of 9 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: water and turn around and see a stranger talking to John, 10 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: David and Lucy. They're about three years old. You know 11 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: this tall at the time. Well, I took off running 12 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: with two bottles of water, I mean running straight were 13 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: the guy straight for him, And just as I was 14 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: about to jump like they do on TV like that, 15 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: the guy turned around and it was a friend of 16 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: ours from church, and he said, hey, I didn't see you. 17 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: So I thought I'd stand here and watch them till 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: he got back. He was that close to two black 19 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: eyes and a bloody nose. Why because children go missing 20 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: from playgrounds, ballparks, malls, amusement parks. Why in this day 21 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: and age, Why and what can we do to stop it? 22 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: Let's start with the true story of Gabrielic Gabby Doling 23 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,639 Speaker 1: listen and her little brand came back Gunner and she said, Amy, 24 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: have you saw Gabby? I can't find her. Gabby Doolan's 25 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: older brother was playing football when she went missing from 26 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: the campus of Allen County Scottsville High School. The game stopped, 27 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: and everyone, including her father, searched high and low for 28 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: the seven year old. Brian says he saw a lot 29 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: of people during that search, but one face sticks out 30 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: in particular. I saw him walking up the fence for 31 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: it was dark and could tell who it was of 32 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: originaland and I hollered, and I was asking a lot 33 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 1: of people who they were. I mean, yeah, I thought 34 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: he was helping me search. You're hearing our friend Monique 35 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: Blair at Fox fifty six Lexington with me an All 36 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: Star panel to try to break it down and put 37 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: it back together. What happened to Gabby? What happens to 38 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: so many children at playgrounds, parks, ballparks. Gabby Doolan a 39 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: little seven year old girl with her parents. They're watching 40 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: her older brother play ball, and just after the action start, 41 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: it's Gabby's missing with me, As I said an All 42 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: Star panel Lark Class, the father of Polly Class, who 43 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: goes missing from her own home. Mark Class, the founder 44 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: of Class Kids Foundation. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author, Red 45 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: Flag host Live with Doctor Wendy, KCBQ Radio. Karen Stark, 46 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattane Karen Stark dot com. 47 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State, author of Blood 48 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet and the star of Poisonous Liaisons, levipagecrimal 49 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: Line dot com investigator reporter and thirty six years Seattle, PD. 50 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: Author of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer, Gary gen Grant, Cloyd 51 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: Steiger at Cloyd Steiger dot com. Joe Sky Morgan. Right there, 52 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: a crowded football game, a lot of young children like 53 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: between one and and let's just say twelve years old. 54 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: A lot of them in uniform and cheerleading uniforms are 55 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: all looking alike, crowded stands. What do you do when 56 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: you hear Yabby's missing? It goes into a complete panic 57 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: at that moment in time, because you know that you 58 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: know there's parents out there, they know that feeling, that 59 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: kind of feeling down deep in your gut where you know, 60 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: that sinking feeling that something is wrong. You can hear 61 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: the stress in their voice. So everything goes chaotic in 62 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,799 Speaker 1: that moment because you're trying to find this little lost child. 63 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: You can hear it. It's building like this even before this, Nancy, 64 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: everybody's attention is probably on the ballfield. They're not watching 65 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: everything else. And where there's families, there's smaller children. They 66 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: come to see their brothers and sisters play ball in 67 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: sports and this sort of thing. So not all the 68 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: time or the parents focused on the kids, And unfortunately 69 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: that's what happened in this case, and in just minutes. 70 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: Isn't it true? Straight up? Do you leave my page? 71 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter that the team had 72 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: hardly started playing before Gabby went missing. Do I have 73 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: my timing right? Yes, Nancy, you're correct. It's seven forty 74 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: pm November fourteenth, twenty fifteen, and Gabby was playing with 75 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: her friends around the bleachers. They were playing Item seek. 76 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: Started out very normal, and then she vanishes. Her friends 77 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: approached her mother and say, we can't find Gabby. In 78 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: a search ensues, you know, and how common is that? 79 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: Cloyd Steiger thirty six years Seattle PD, including homicide and 80 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: author Cloyd Steiger. How many times do you let your 81 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: children go play with their friends and you look away? 82 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: I even knowing this lull myself into false's complacency, and 83 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: I've done it. Yeah, you do, you know. Fortunately, it's 84 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: actually very rare about I mean, when it happens, there's 85 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: nothing worse. It's every parents worst nightmare. And you gotta 86 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: you know, I have small children, I have grandchildren now, 87 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: and I'm always constantly trying to see where they are 88 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: when one of these events, like I said, it's every 89 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: parents worst night er. What do you do? What do 90 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: you do in this case? What do you do when 91 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: you realize you can't find your child? Well, you have 92 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: to start searching immediately, and you know you have to go. 93 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: You know, it depends on what, again, where you're at. 94 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: If you're a store, obviously you tell somebody in the 95 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: store they can lot. This case, you're at a football 96 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: game has just started and you heard Leavi Page say 97 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: it was seven something pm. It's dark or just getting dark, 98 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: And that adds a whole other complexity mark class to 99 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: finding the baby. Well, Nascy, what I would do, I mean, 100 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: given a little time to reflect on. This is number one. 101 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: You would want to send somebody out to the parking 102 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: lot to check on any cards that may be leaving 103 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the game. That might be a 104 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: tell right there. But the high tech solution is you 105 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: you arm your child with some kind of tracking gear. Now, 106 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: that could be something as simple as a smartphone. You 107 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: can track smartphones very easily and very clearly, So you 108 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: could have your young daughter with a little backpack and 109 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: a smartphone in the backpack. And there are a lot 110 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: of other types of devices that are made specifically to 111 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: be able to track young children. So I think that 112 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: that is something that people should definitely consider because it 113 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: has been pointed out there is no way on earth 114 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: you can keep your eye on a child twenty four seven, 115 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: particularly when you're in the middle of a rambunctious kind 116 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: of an event like a football game, where you've got 117 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: a child on the field, you've got a child in 118 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: the bleacher clime stories with Nancy Grace, guys were talking 119 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: about the disappearance of a little girl at a football game, 120 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: Gabby Dueling. Her brother's playing football, Gabby's playing with her 121 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: little friends around the bleachers where her parents are and 122 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: suddenly a child says, where's Gabby? And then all h 123 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: eble l breaks loose. Mark Klass, What I was saying 124 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: is I want to tell you a true story. And 125 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: I may or may not have told you this before, 126 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: but John, David and Lucy were ten and a half 127 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: and I took them to their first high school football game. 128 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: A friend of ours had a son has a son 129 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: in the high school band, and that's what we went 130 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: to go see that this is not our school. Well, 131 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: I let them run around with their friends, and they 132 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: were supposed to report back every twenty minutes, and they 133 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: were doing that and then suddenly they didn't do it. 134 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: Twenty minutes passed, then thirty. When it got to forty 135 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: and they missed two check ins. I thought two words, 136 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: Gabby dueling, Gabby dooling. I took off down those bleachers 137 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: like a bat out of hell. And it scared me 138 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: to death because behind the stadium at this high school game, 139 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: all these parents were like they were telegating at a 140 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: professional football game, drinking and cooking out. Hey, party on 141 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: all you want to, but that is not an appropriate 142 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: setting for children. Telle Well. I started screaming, calling them 143 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: looking Randy got my husband and he said, what's wrong. 144 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: I said, Gabby Dooling, that's what's wrong. Start looking. All 145 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: our friends emptied the stands. We were all looking. I 146 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: was standing in the middle of nowhere, about to start crying, 147 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: and somebody tapped me on the shoulder. It was Lucy. 148 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: Then I got attacked and it was John David. She 149 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: had been getting her face painted, and I guess she 150 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: started right after I started looking, because I went there. 151 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: Long story short, that night, I decided they were getting 152 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: a cell phone way earlier than I wanted them to 153 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 1: have one. For the reason you just said, mark class. 154 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: Now I got it loaded up with Life three sixty 155 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: track or find my iPhone the works. Guys, take a 156 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: listen to our friend Phil Pendleton Fox fifty six. Gabby 157 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: Doolin's father wanted his son Alec to tell us what 158 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 1: his seven year old sister meant to him. Are you 159 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: gonna miss those of you? Was always so happy, bet everything, 160 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: No matter what we'll be going on, she was always happy. 161 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: They might everybody feel better. The little girl was at 162 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: alex little league football game Saturday night. Would Belie say 163 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: she disappeared from sight Thirty minutes later she was found 164 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: murdered near a creek in a wooded area behind the 165 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: high school. She loved the killer, she loved read. Since 166 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: her death, her community has flooded the family with support. 167 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: I go fund me page and already raised thousands of 168 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: dollars by Monday. It means everything. We appreciate them, but 169 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: I'll give anything to help a baby bath. Isn't it true? 170 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: To leave ipage crime online dot com investigative reporter that 171 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: within thirty minutes of her disappearing she was dead. Yes. 172 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: So she was reported missing at seven forty pm and 173 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: at eight o five pm she was discovered dead, face 174 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: down in a creek in a wooded area behind the 175 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: high school, and she was raped and strangled. Seven year 176 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: old little girl to Mark Class, father of Polyclass, founder 177 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: of Class Kids Foundation, what is the statistic regarding the 178 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: hours that pass once the child is kidnapped? Well, three 179 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: hours patch Within three hours a child is going to 180 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: be murdered as a result of a kidnapping. We'll be 181 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: dead within seventy six of children that are murdered as 182 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: a result of a kidnapping will be dead within the 183 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: first three hours. So there is absolutely no time to lose, 184 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: not one second. Gabby Doolan was a huge inspiration when 185 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: I was writing this chapter in our new book, Don't 186 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: Be a Victim Fighting Back against America's Crime Wave. Proceeds 187 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: are going to help finding missing children. We take all 188 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: the cases I ever investigated or tried, prosecuted, all the 189 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: cases I've covered to create a list for you life 190 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: saving tips to help you you that have children that 191 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: you want to protect. And in the very first chapter, 192 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: I talk about protecting your child at playgrounds, parks, amusement parks, 193 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: lall's ball fields. Take a listen to this. Less than 194 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: a week later, Madden was arrested and charged with murder, rape, sodomy, 195 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: and kidnapping. The Duelan say, Timothy had a daughter that 196 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: cheered with Gabby. She'd been around him, you know, with 197 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: all the practices in the games, she would have trusted 198 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: him just enough. Now, not only does a bedroom lay empty, 199 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: so does a piece of a family's heart. Oh we'll 200 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: get the hug and kiss her again. I Noah, well, 201 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: don't don't have no doubt, but I'm missing man. No. 202 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: Investigators say they have DNA evidence linking Timothy Madden to 203 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: Gabby Duelan's death. Too, Jice Scott Morgan. You were just 204 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: hearing our friend Monique Blair at Fox fifty six Lexington. 205 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: What forensics led them to the father of a little 206 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: girl that was a cheerleader with Gabby Doolan. I know, Nancy, 207 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about that stuff that is the basis for 208 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: all of life. That's DNA, and so that is a 209 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: fingerprint that's left behind. And Nancy, he left this fingerprint 210 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: of DNA behind on her person in the twinkling of 211 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: an eye. That's how quickly this happened. She was raped, sodomized, 212 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: she was actually strangled, and on top of that, Nancy, 213 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: they found water in her lung. She was drowned. She 214 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: was held face down under the water. And that's how 215 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: quickly it happened. He deposited his DNA on her, and 216 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: there is some source of her left upon him, and 217 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: this is a transfer of evidence. But the more important 218 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: thing is this happened so quickly, and he completely destroyed 219 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: this family's life, completely destroyed the family from then on. 220 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: The family is still destroyed, and Gabby is by far 221 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: the only one to You aren't class ballparks, amusement parks, playgrounds. 222 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: It's a predator's play ten Well, evil exists, Nancy, and 223 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: individuals with proclivities to do harm to young children are 224 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: going to gravitate to places where young children are going 225 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: to be, and more importantly, where young children are going 226 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: to be unsupervised, and they're going to pounce upon the 227 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: first opportunity they have to engage their evil intention. So again, 228 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: you know, there should be maybe off duty police officers. 229 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: There should be some kind of protection at these games 230 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: so that children have an ability to play and run 231 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: around without being concerned that they're going to be the 232 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: victim of some kind of a horrendous crime. But in 233 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: the event that there aren't off duty cops, in the 234 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: event there is no surveillance, what can you as a 235 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: parent do to protect your child? I lay out pages 236 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: and pages of tips to help you protect your child. 237 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: Listen to Chris Conti wtv F. So what does justice 238 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: feel like knowing that Timothy Madden is away for life 239 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: for taking this little girl's life? I want to say, 240 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: you know that there was some kind of miraculous change, 241 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: but no, I mean in here the heart still better. 242 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: If losing Gabby was the hardest day of their lives, 243 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: yesterday came in a close second, as Amy finally got 244 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: to speak to Timothy Madden face to face. Because of you, 245 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: we lost our baby girl, Our boys lost their sister. 246 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: And when Timothy Madden turned his attention away, Well, Amy 247 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: doesn't fault Gabby's dad for this. You can let him 248 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: listen to what she's got to say. Do you understand me? 249 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: Do you? We couldn't even get enough respect to be heard. 250 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, he got really he got really angry. But 251 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody can blame him for getting upset 252 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: the way that he did. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, 253 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: guys were talking about a little girl who goes missing 254 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: at a junior league football game. Gabby dueling, how can 255 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,959 Speaker 1: we stop this ever happening again? And don't be a victim? 256 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: Fighting back against America's crime waves proceeds going to help 257 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: find missing children. Pages and pages of tips are laid 258 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: out for you. For instance, tell your children Mommy and 259 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: daddy never need help outside the family. That's a common ploy. Hey, 260 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 1: your mom says I was to come to get you. 261 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: She needs you right now. Come with me. No, never 262 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: go with anyone else. Mommy and Daddy don't need help. 263 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: Predators at playgrounds games, parks, listen and watch carefully. If 264 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: they hear you call your child's name, they will use 265 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: that as ammunition to try and get your child. Have 266 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: a plan in case you get separated at one of 267 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: these ballparks or parks. Don't talk to or help strangers. Hey, Gabby, 268 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: I can't find my little girl. Can you help me? 269 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: You know she cheerleads with you. No. And what's so 270 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: bizarre withy Patrick, California prosecutor. The guy that murdered Gabby 271 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: was the father of another little cheerleader. They knew him, 272 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: that's right, And as Mark class only knows too well. 273 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's an inside job. Sometimes go missing not only 274 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: from inside the house, but at common areas where there 275 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: are relatives, friends, associates, people that know the kids. And 276 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: that is what's so scary about these stadiums, these sporting events. 277 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: You know, we talked about neighborhood watch. We should have 278 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: unofficial stadium watch where parents look out for each other's kids, 279 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: especially if they know them. Because large sporting events, as 280 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: you point out, Nancy, playgrounds for criminals who take advantage 281 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: of diversion and distraction, two elements you have present at 282 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: these events where everybody's looking at the field or whatever 283 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: else is going on, whatever kind of gathering it is, 284 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: or God forbid, as you share, if they're tricking behind 285 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: the bleachers, but they're not paying the kind of attention 286 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: they should, because it is often done and perpetrated by 287 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: somebody known or at least recognized by the child. Often 288 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: these disappearances take place when you are at a park 289 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: or a playground. The book goes on to advise try 290 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: to take a playground that has a single entry or exit, 291 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: especially one that may have a fence around it, because 292 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: what perp is going to grab your child and carry 293 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: them over a fence. Although it has happened, never let 294 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: the sight line between you and your child be obstructed. 295 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: If possible, pick playgrounds and parks that are fenced in 296 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: or contained. Try to pick play areas or areas where 297 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: you can easily see who is approaching. Another issue to you, 298 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: Karen Stark as you've got to instruct your child. It's 299 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: not rude to say no, I'm not going with you 300 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: to your car, No I'm not going to go to 301 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: the concession stand with you, or just playing out. No. 302 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: Especially in the South, children are taught to be polite 303 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: but you've got to train your child to scream, yell, kick, fight. No. Unfortunately, Nancy, 304 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: it's a very strong no. And children have to be 305 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: taught very literally. If somebody is offering you a candy, 306 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: if they have a toy, if they say the dog. 307 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: I mean, you have to give specific examples. And the 308 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: other thing is that parents need to watch if children 309 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: are playing together, because there's a false sense of security 310 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: that they're playing tag. Hi didn't seek They're in each 311 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: other's faces. No, that's not okay. You have to keep 312 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: your eye on your child. Unfortunately, that's just the way 313 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: the world is. Here's another case that I investigated to right, 314 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: don't be a victim? Does this name ring a Belle 315 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: Morgan Nick take a listen to our friends at ko 316 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: Artie Fox sixteen Little Rock. June nineteen ninety five, six 317 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: year old Morgan Nick was at an Alma Little League ballpark. 318 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: She went to the parking lot with two friends to 319 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: chase fireflies. When she didn't come back, her friends say 320 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: they saw her talking to a bearded man next to 321 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: a red camper. That man was never identified. Morgan was 322 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: last seen emptying sand out of her shoes near her 323 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: mother's car. I thought when the police got there, I 324 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: thought that they would know what to do, that they 325 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: would figure this out, that we would have Morgan back 326 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: right away. It never crossed my mind that we would 327 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: be here even a day later. It's a night that 328 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: shook our Kansans to the core, so many in the 329 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: state searching, praying and hoping for any answer to bring 330 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: Morgan home. And to Dennis Farina of Unsolved Mysteries, listen, 331 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: I went over to the car, looked around the outside 332 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: of the car, opened the doors, looked inside the car, 333 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: thinking she had gotten in, even at one point look 334 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: under the car, just thinking she has to be here somewhere, 335 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: And within a couple of minutes, all the people and 336 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: most of the cars were gone, and it was very 337 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 1: clear that Morgan wasn't there. Yeah, who calmed down? Where 338 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: was the last place you sor? One of the coaches questions, 339 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: the girls look at me when you were in the field? 340 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: Were you there alone? They remembered seeing a man whom 341 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: they describe as creepy talking to Morgan out in the field. 342 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: One of the coaches had a cell phone and made 343 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: the initial nine one one call to law enforcement. They 344 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: arrived within six minutes and began an immediate and massive 345 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: search for Morgan that night, but they found no trace 346 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: of Morgan. The media was alerted and flyers were posted. 347 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: Weeks stretched them to months, and finally years with no 348 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: sign of Morgan Nick. Two special guests Leavipage climb online 349 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: dot com investigative reporter. How did Morgan Knicks go missing? So? 350 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: Nancy Morgan Knicks was seven years old and she was 351 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: abducted in nineteen ninety six at a little league game 352 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: in Alma, Arkansas. And Alma, Arkansas was in northwest Arkansas, Nancy, 353 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: It's in the Ozark Mountains, a very quiet small town 354 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: population of about five thousand people. And she was at 355 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: a game with her family, a little league game, and 356 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: at ten thirty pm, she asked her mom, Hey, can 357 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: I go catch lightning bugs with my friends? Her mom 358 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: said yeah, go ahead. So she was doing that with 359 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: her friends and at ten forty five, fifteen minutes later, 360 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: she was seen by her friends emptying sand out of 361 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: her shoes and talking to a person that her friends 362 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: described as a creepy man driving a red truck with 363 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: a white camper. And that was the last time that 364 00:24:43,960 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: she was ever seen. Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 365 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: you can listen to our friend Dennis Farina Alma, Arkansas. 366 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: On a summer night, Colleen Nick took her six year 367 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: old daughter Morgan to a little league page choice to go. 368 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: We'd made the choice to go just Morgan and I 369 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: just to have girls night out and it was just 370 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: such a warm, close, um fun night. Says to catching fireflies. Well, 371 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: I don't know if my MoMA lay. Two local girls 372 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 1: asked Morgan to come and play with them. Mom, can 373 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: me and my friends go catch fireflies? Oh? I don't 374 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: think so, honey, I are you sure safe? Finally, against 375 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: my better judgment, I told her that she could go 376 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: and play, and she threw her arms around my neck 377 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: gave me a big hug. Stay where I can see you. 378 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: We could see them very clearly, and then the last 379 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: time that I turned to look, Morgan was thrownning back 380 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: and forth the planet. But when the game ended, the 381 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: two girls return to the field without girls girls, where's Morgan? By? Okay? 382 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: Getting the sand out of her shoe, which card I 383 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: don't know, years I guess. Can you imagine the feeling 384 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: that mom had when she realized Morgan is gone? The 385 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: purpose of this is not to scare you at all. 386 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: The purpose is to arm you. In a world when 387 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: everything seems like it's upside down between crime statistics and 388 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: protests and COVID, that feeling of helplessness, of not being 389 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: able to do anything to make a difference can be overwhelming. 390 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: This book, Don't Be a Victim is full of information 391 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: to arm you to protect yourself and your family. We 392 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: were just telling you about the case of Morgan. Next, 393 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: an entire chapter is devoted to cases just like this, 394 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: true cases. Not to exploit the cases, but to determine what, 395 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: if anything, can we learn. How can we use this 396 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: knowledge so another child doesn't go missing, another child isn't 397 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: harmed or killed. Take a listen to this. It was 398 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: an unseasonably warm Monday, February thirteenth, twenty seventeen. There was 399 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: no school that day, and thirteen year old Abbey Williams 400 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: had spent the night with her best friend, fourteen year 401 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: old Libby German. The teens decided to hike on the 402 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: popular Heritage trails east of Delphi. Libby's older sister, Kelsey German, 403 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,719 Speaker 1: drops them off at one thirty five pm with plans 404 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: to meet later. To be picked up. German leaves them 405 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: at the trail near the Scenic monin high Bridge. It's 406 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: an abandoned railroad bridge over Deer Creek. At two or 407 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: seven pm, Libby posts aphoted a snapchat of Abbey walking 408 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,719 Speaker 1: across the bridge. When the girls fail to show up 409 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 1: at the appointed time and place and family can't find them, 410 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: they are reported missing. Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leasonby organized 411 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: the search parties, which continue until just before midnight. Leasonby 412 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: then issues a news release saying there's no reason to 413 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: suspect foul play or to believe the girls are in 414 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: immediate danger. You know, to you Mark Class, father of 415 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: Polly Class and Victims Right's champion, he has devoted his 416 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: life to helping find missing people, especially children, after his 417 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: daughter Polly was kidnapped from her own home. You know, 418 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 1: Mark Class, why do we lull ourselves into a false 419 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: sense of complacency? Because you heard the Morgan Nick's story. 420 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: It was mom and daughter adigant little league game and 421 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: she was right by the bleachers catching fireflies. And the 422 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: Delphi case. Abby and Libby are just walking a trail. 423 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: There are plenty of people around. It's a very small town, 424 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: very low crime rate. Polly was at a little sleepover. 425 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: She's got a little sleepover in her own home when 426 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: she went missing. Why do we think it won't happen 427 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: to us? Yeah, that's a spectacular question. You know. Coley 428 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: Nick is a dear friend of mine. She became she 429 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: has also become a fierce advocate for missing children, and 430 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: in fact, the Amber Alert in Arkansas is named after 431 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: a little Morgan Nick. We all, it happens to all 432 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: of us, Nancy. I mean, we look at the stories 433 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: that we're talking about and Wenna go, oh my goodness, Well, 434 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: at least I've told my child about stranger danger, so 435 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: that certainly is never going to happen to me. And 436 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: it's really really important to teach your children about the 437 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: child lords and teach your children about the strangers. But 438 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: it has been pointed out as often as not, in fact, 439 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: much more often than not, as somebody that is known 440 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: within the family. And I think it's a mistake to 441 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: put the whole burden of child say on the shoulders 442 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: of the children. They're little kids. They definitely have to 443 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: know the rules, they definitely have to be aware of 444 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: what's going on around them, but nonetheless, they are children. 445 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: They're eat more easily deceived than adults are. So we 446 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: have to create strategies that are going to work at 447 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: the adult level to be able to protect the children. 448 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: And I think we've discussed a lot of those this evening, 449 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: because so many of these little kids, unfortunately, do fall 450 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: through the cracks. So we have to be vigilant on 451 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: every level. We have to talk to the children, but 452 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: we also have to take responsibility on our own shoulders 453 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: as adults to ensure that our children are going to 454 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: be safe from the potential predators that might be on 455 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: the streets. Again, I'm not trying to scare you, trying 456 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: to help you and arm you with information. You know, 457 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out, Karen Stark, you're the psychologists, 458 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: you're the high profile shrink joining us at in Manhattan. 459 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: Why do we choose, including me, choose to live very 460 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: often incomplacency. I mean, you know, I didn't realize I 461 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: was going to share the story with you because it 462 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: just happened last night. But Lucy looked at me and 463 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: she said, did you put a chip in me? Mom? 464 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: I said, what she says, do I have a chip? 465 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: So you can find me if I go missing, Like 466 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: is in my tooth? Did I swallow it? What? I'm like, Lucy, 467 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:32,959 Speaker 1: why would you think you've got a chip in you? 468 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: And she goes, well, I don't know. I just you know, 469 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: I think you put a chip in me because you're 470 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: so worried about me all the time. I don't want 471 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: them to be scared here. And it's just, you know, 472 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: it's hard to live in a state of fear and 473 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: readiness all the time. Is that why we let ourselves, 474 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: you know, slip into complacency? I mean, that's too Nancy. 475 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: They didn't do anything wrong, and it would be terrible 476 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: if we blame the parents in this situation. And the 477 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: problem is not the parents or the children. It's that 478 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: the world contains feevil people. That this exists, and you 479 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,959 Speaker 1: have to alert your children and you really have to 480 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: be vigilant, and there's nothing we can do about that. 481 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: It's yes, they might be worried about it and they 482 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: think that you're overdoing it, like Lucy, maybe she thinks 483 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: she has a chip. But the truth of the matter 484 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: is children need to be prepared. Parents need to be prepared. 485 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: If you can't help it, you have to say it's 486 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: not okay. You have to give them a little bit 487 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: of fear because you don't want them to trust strangers. 488 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: That's just not all right with me. Thirty three years Seattle, PD, 489 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: author of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer, Gary Jane Grant. You 490 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: can find them at Cloyd Steiger dot com. Cloyd Steiger, 491 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to what Libby's mother, 492 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: Becky told me. When did you realize something was not 493 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: right at all? Well, our whole family was out there looking. 494 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: We all left Tara, my daughter went straight over there. 495 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: Derek was there. My other son come pulling in as 496 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: I was leaving, and he said, what are you doing. 497 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: I said, We're gonna go look for the girls. So 498 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: he jumped in the car with me. We drove. If 499 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: they would have decided to walk home, we drove both 500 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: directions that they would have gone, both routes. We got there. 501 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: We had six cars there. We were taking over everything. 502 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: We split up. We walked all the trails. Cody and 503 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: Kelsey went across the bridge. They went. They went across 504 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: and up to the road and up to the houses 505 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: up there were the sheriffs there yet not yet by 506 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: this time it was a little after five. Was it 507 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: getting dark? Not yet? It wasn't, but I knew it 508 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: was going And I was on the phone most of 509 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: the time with AT and T trying to get them 510 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: to ping her phone. And they won't. They won't do it. 511 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: Why is it that the cell phone companies will not 512 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 1: paying when the parent calls and ask them too? Well, 513 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: you know that's it's an issue that comes up a 514 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: lot normally now. If the police call and it declared 515 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: an emergency, most cell phone companies will paying the phone. 516 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: But you know there's some complicated if you are the 517 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: owner of the phone. I don't know why the cell 518 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: phone company won't pay it for you that it's ridiculous. 519 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: It's just a policy that they have, but they have. 520 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: It's red tape, and looking back, I don't know if 521 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: it would have helped in this case, but there are 522 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: cases that it does help in. And Cloyd, I want 523 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: you to take a listen to something else. The family 524 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: told me they were dropped off Monday by a family member. 525 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: They had a plan, they were supposed to meet that 526 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: family member a few hours later. They had a time, 527 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: they had a location where they were supposed to meet, 528 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,720 Speaker 1: and those rules never showed up, and that family member 529 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: immediately alerted authorities, and the search efforts were underway. And 530 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,720 Speaker 1: when we say search efforts, we mean hundreds of people 531 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: were out in that wooded area looking for these girls, 532 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 1: gouring the area for any clue. Social media took off. 533 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: Pictures of these girls were circulating social media. Anyone who 534 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: knew anything, they were just begging them to come forward 535 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 1: to call police. And I think everyone went to sleep 536 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,439 Speaker 1: Monday night keeping their finger response that there was maybe 537 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: some kind of miscommunication or the girls were going to 538 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: be hanging out somewhere else. We automatically try our mind 539 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:38,760 Speaker 1: goes to innocent explanations as to why something horrible has happened. 540 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: But Cloyd, very often victims' families has told me they 541 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: knew immediately that something horrible had happened. Have you ever 542 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: heard that, Cloyd, I have, you know, And I think 543 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: it's an innate sense that a parent has that is 544 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: not just you know, worry and let me let me add. 545 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: I think it's a huge mistake for that sheriff to 546 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: make an announcement. And we don't suspect foul play, you 547 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,800 Speaker 1: don't know, leave it open, just say we're doing everything 548 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: we can to find your squirls. But don't go out 549 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: there and say we don't suspect foul play, because then 550 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,879 Speaker 1: everybody else's, oh, that it's nothing. They just ran away 551 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: or something and they're not alert, So that was really 552 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,320 Speaker 1: a bad move. Guys. Abby and Limby's bodies were found 553 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: just below the Trustle Bridge where they were taking pictures 554 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: that they posted dead Again, these true fact scenarios are 555 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: not to scare you. They are to arm you with 556 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: information that may one day save your child, your grandchild, 557 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: a child you love. Don't be a victim. Fight back 558 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: against America's crime way. Nancy Grace Crime's Stories, signing off 559 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,