1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Previously on Queen of the con When I was thirteen 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: years old, I went through traumatic experience as a victim 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: of child pornography. Danielle Miller makes the case to a 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: Florida judge for probation after pleading no contest to impersonating 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: a victim named Erica Beers while trying to withdraw eight 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: thousand dollars in cash from her Chase Bank account in 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: sarah Sota. Siara had given me these bones that I 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: was basically her mule. But Judge Thomas Krug isn't buying 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: her bs and he throws the book at her. I 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: am going to adjudicate you guilty. I'm going to sentence 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: you to five years in the Florida State Prison. It's 12 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: October twenty one. Danielle Miller is led away in tears 13 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: and in handcuffs to begin serving her time behind bars. 14 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: Her victims are breathing a sigh of relief now, and 15 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: one of her wealthy childhood friends from Danielle's was Man Days, 16 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: has finally agreed to talk to me about how Danielle 17 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: got a strange but uniquely powerful foothold in her life, 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: starting when she was just thirteen years old. We're going 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: home to meet one of our curfews. And we passed 20 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: a group of kids on a corner, all escaping their 21 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: cur few, having their last cigarettes. And the girl sent 22 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: that daniel Miller, that girl in the purple, and she 23 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: rolled down the window and she held out sweat for 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: a girl, and Danielle turned around and gave us the 25 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: finger or waved, I can't remember, but she acknowledged that 26 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: she had heard it. That was my first introduction to her. 27 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the con 28 00:01:54,280 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: The Rich Girl episode ten. Everything was comedy. So my 29 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: friends knowing me is like Goatsy and l A offer 30 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: these huge parties because I love events, I love aesthetics. 31 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: I hate parties and I may say social so like 32 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: by the ends of it and by like nine pm, 33 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: I'll be up in my room just seeing if people 34 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: are having fun. I'll hear people being like, is a 35 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 1: house here, and they're like, no, no, she's up. There's 36 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: don't worry. You're like the great Gaps be in Los 37 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: Angeles because they really don't like the people. But no, 38 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: I mean quentin As made Brown is truly a fascinating woman. 39 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: At thirty two, years old. She looks like a fashion 40 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 1: model with her tall, lean frame, high cheekbones, and long, 41 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: billowing brown hair. She actually grew up with Danielle in 42 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: New York's high society, and she comes from money, big money, 43 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: but today she spends all her free time working for 44 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: various charities and trying to do good in the world. 45 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 1: At started tutoring kids's parents were in jail. My father 46 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: passed and he had left a family foundation with a 47 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: focus on alternatives incarceration. I really think like my life's 48 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: purpose is to be in service. It's sort of really 49 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: what I will always do. I've been instagramming with Esmey 50 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: as she prefers to be called for two months now, 51 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: trying to convince her to do an interview with me, 52 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: and she finally agreed. I've spent hours talking to her 53 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: and let me tell you her life story could truly 54 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: be its own podcast. As may comes from old Hollywood, 55 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: as in the original Hollywood. My grandmother was a silent 56 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: film starry named Sally Eiler's. Sally Isiler's was featured in 57 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: more than sixty films from the nineteen twenties silent era 58 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: to the advent of talkies, which is what movies would sound. 59 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: We're called back then I heard you talking to Miles downstays. 60 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: He's never taken that from any man before. Her last 61 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: film was a Western titled Corner Creek. You see, there 62 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: isn't enough open range for both our opsis and he's 63 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: trying to squeeze me out. She married my grandfather, who 64 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: was a director and producer. As May's grandfather, Harry Joe 65 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: Brown is the guy who made swashbuckler Errol Flynn a 66 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: household name by producing his first film, Captain Blood. It's 67 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: the world against us and us against the world. So 68 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: my father basically grew up to kind of heavyweights in 69 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 1: the industry, if you will. But as May's father, Harry 70 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: Joe Brown Jr. Only dabbled in Hollywood briefly as a screenwriter. 71 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: He made his impressive mark on the world as a 72 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: big time real estate magnate, developing wealthy neighborhoods in multiple 73 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: cities including Beverly Hills and New York. So in the 74 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: hall in distates, you know, he was involved in Wow. 75 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: And then he did a large housing projected houses in Sagaponic, 76 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: which was thirty six of the world's top architects, which 77 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: was a really, really amazing project. As May has had 78 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: a jet set lifestyle ever since she can remember my childhood, 79 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: I think I've probably moved like fifty times. My dad 80 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: was in Florida, l A, France, but as a young 81 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: team she lived in Manhattan and attended the exclusive Upper 82 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: east Side prep school Spence, an all girls school with 83 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: an impressive alumnilist including Gwyneth Paltrow and Carrie Washington. And 84 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, the bias fear of rich kids in and 85 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: around New York City that go to all these schools 86 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: like Spence and Horsemen was designed to be exclusive in 87 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: New York. You think from a very young Angel, lot 88 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: of the private schools in either the upperat Side up 89 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: her West Side or Horseman of Riverdale, which you're slightly 90 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: out of this me. They make big efforts to mix 91 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: the schools up a lot. We had dances from an 92 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: early age, so it was very natural by the age 93 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: of fifteen to know most of your friends from other schools. 94 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: It wasn't a strange thing. And these are all like 95 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: private schools in New York who regularly get together and 96 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: have social interactions, so you know everyone, everyone knows everyone. Yeah, 97 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 1: Like I just school right across the street from me, 98 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: the next block, the next block. It's very easy to 99 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: meet people for lunch. It's not, you know, to get 100 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: in a car. It's it's kind of becomes essential park, 101 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: especially in spring. Everyone goes to the Great Lawn too. 102 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: Not smoke marijuana, I'm sure, And it's a meeting point, 103 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: you know, because that's actually how I met Danielle. I 104 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: was at SPENSI believe still at the time. Yeah, I 105 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: would have been thirteen, and I had heard about the video, 106 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: but I've actually never seen it. I might be one 107 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: of the very few I've ever seen it. I am 108 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: also didn't know what a swiffer was, so I had 109 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: a lot of friends had seen the video. I would 110 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: have probably clicked son, and that haunts me so as 111 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: May and Danielle meet for the first time in Central 112 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: Park in the early two thousand's and they hit it off. 113 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: I was definitely known for being a sort of wild kid. 114 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: My father had just passed at that time, and I 115 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: fell deeply into drugs. Danielle is She's very smart, she's 116 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: incredibly funny, while she can be a bit I and 117 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: maybe it was because she liked me. I always felt 118 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: that there was um a genuine warm to her, and 119 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: there was this genuine sort of wanting to fit in, 120 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: but she also was always very nice and we connected immediately. 121 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: And I think at that time I was not in 122 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: good shape, and I was doing drugs and I was 123 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: sort of out and about and my very little l 124 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: was at home and it was sort of a messy situation, 125 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: and Danielle made herself available to me one I really 126 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: needed a friend too. I was the kid that after 127 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: school was looking to do something when other people are 128 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: going to do homework. I didn't really want to go home. 129 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: And Danielle, from what I can remember, kind of had 130 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: that same setup. Although she had parents and she was 131 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: she had a home life, and she as far as 132 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: I know, did very well in school. And Danielle was 133 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: very smart, so she was one of those people who 134 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: could juggle homework and then also getting out of the house. 135 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: And I just know that it was, as I recall it, 136 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: one of those people I should call it any given 137 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: time and she'd be ready to hang out. And I 138 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: went to her apartment two or three times. It was 139 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: one of those high school you know romance is where 140 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: it's like you hanging out one day and then you 141 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: just hang out every day. And I knew that people 142 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: had a distaste for her, and it recalls them my 143 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: friends saying like, really, when my father died, it changed 144 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: things from me where I think a lot of people 145 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: looked at me with pity. I think I saw in 146 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: her perhaps something that I didn't recognize in myself, which 147 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: is like resilience. And I think we both saw in 148 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: each other there was a lack of judgment. So we 149 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: started hanging out. Go to her house after score, she 150 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: comes in mind. So at this point, Danielle reportedly is 151 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: telling some of her Horseman friends that her parents owned 152 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: the apartment building she lives in, only they didn't, And 153 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, she never tells that lie to esme. I 154 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: grew up in a real estate family, so it would 155 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: have been a red flag because it wouldn't have appeared true. 156 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: She and her brother, who shared bunk friends, shared a 157 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: bathroom with their parents, and I believe the video was 158 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: taken in the bathroom, and I remember being in such 159 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: a small apartment and thinking this is very strange. She 160 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: and her brother, who shared bunk bed, sharing the bathroom 161 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: with her parents, and I believe the video was taken 162 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: in the bathroom, and I remember being in such a 163 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: small apartment and thinking this is very strange. But as 164 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: May doesn't care that Danielle is not as rich as her, 165 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: and the fact that she was so ostracized at the 166 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: time for being swift for girl in a weird way 167 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: made as May like her more out of a strange 168 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: mix of sympathy and admiration. Essentially, we ended up even closer. 169 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time in the city alone 170 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: in my apartment because my mother and I were having 171 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: and she was She was in the country a lot 172 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: of the time, and it was just a difficult time 173 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: for my family, and so it was like a free 174 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: for all. We kind of were able to go off 175 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 1: the grid and have her crazy times and get a 176 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: lot of deep talks. And like Danielice, whoever you wanted 177 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: to be, She's a chameleon, and so her chameleon like 178 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: aspects to Mina looked looking back at childhood feel more 179 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: of like a desperate attempt to be loved. I don't 180 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: know if she was committing theft when we were in 181 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: high school. I knew that there were some parties where 182 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: people's wallets when stolen. She had a sense of deflection 183 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: that was like everything was comedy. She was able to 184 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: laugh things off. You know, I never saw daniel get upset. Actually, 185 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: I never saw her distressed, and so I don't know 186 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: whether that's something within her makeup that maybe allows her 187 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: to detach. I don't know how much you know about psychopathy. 188 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: I mean, that is textbook psychopathy. They feel nothing realistically, 189 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: statistically speaking, psychopaths walk amongst us. Was friends there in 190 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: high school. We had some dark times. I was beginning 191 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: to really possibly lose my life to drug addiction, and 192 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: so this one on for years, and I eventually went 193 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: to rehab and I sort of cut tized over in 194 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: New York. And at that time, Danielle had graduated a 195 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: year before me, so that TI had already started been cut. 196 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: So at that point, in two tho after high school, 197 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 1: both young women go their separate ways. Danielle heads to 198 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: Arizona State University, where, if you recall, over the course 199 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: of four years, she earns two degrees in business and 200 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: in public policy. And as May winds up on the 201 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 1: West Coast, I was living out in Los Angeles, and 202 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: I had gone to rehab and so was sober at 203 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: the time when I was living in an apartment. She 204 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: called me and she said, I'm gonna come to life 205 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: weekend with my roommates so around I said, yeah, of course, 206 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: and I'll never forget it. Danielle sing to me, Yeah, 207 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: I've been making like extra money at college because I'm 208 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: doing everyone's homework. I don't remember being so startled because 209 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 1: I just thought, wait, college is so different people of majors, 210 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: and I knew that her roommates majors were very different, 211 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: and I just remember being struck by, like, you're really smart. 212 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: And very soon after that visit, in two thousand twelve, 213 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: Danielle moves to Los Angeles and starts hanging out with me. 214 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 1: She seems to have a lot on the ball, and 215 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: as is impressed, and she said, she got my job 216 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: is Beverly Hill's Chamber of Commerce. And again I was shocked, 217 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: and I said, only Danielle, like only Danielle manages to 218 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: somewhat always say above water. I mean, none of our 219 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: friends have done anything got a job that had that 220 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: impressive of the title. I mean, it's just like, what 221 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: do you mean you got a job at the It 222 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: was just shocking to me. I don't remember what she 223 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: did there, But I just thought, this is so wild, 224 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: like you really you've pushed forward, you managed to burn 225 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: the candle at both ends, if you will. I don't 226 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: remember what exactly it was. It wasn't any bad experience. 227 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: I think it was probably mixed with bringing old friends 228 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: from my past into my new friends, but also because 229 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: Daniel was known to be a liar and I didn't 230 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: I really want to be associated with cleaning up mass 231 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: of lies and not a confrontational person. And so I 232 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: invited her out and she was so friendly, all my 233 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: friends at a good time. And I drove her home 234 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: that night and she was staying at this house, large house, large, 235 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: and she said, yeah, she said, renting garage from this guy. 236 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: So at that time she also had this guy around 237 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: her and he was blonde. I remember. I think she 238 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: said he was the Rangers, and I remember knowing from 239 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: the second she said she said in front of my friends, 240 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: I thought it's not true. And I saw him. I mean, 241 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: I was just like, I don't know anything about that team. 242 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: I don't know what to human do, but I know 243 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: that this is not a professional athlete of that caliber, 244 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: and I just thought, like a strange thing like that's 245 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: something in the Google. It really stood out to me, 246 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: and I thought, okay, you need to be careful because 247 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: I don't want to be like I attached this person 248 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: who's clearly like And then one night a friend she 249 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: drove her home and she said, oh my god, but 250 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: Danielle's house. And I said, what are you talking about? 251 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: And she said was that huge house? And it was 252 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: ether that's on her house And they were like are 253 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: you sure, because like she said, that's her house. And 254 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: I was stuck between like do I just and I 255 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: was just like, no, that's definitely not her house. I 256 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: wasn't gonna confront Danielle, but I was like, let's just 257 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: dip that in the butt, like I'm just not gonna 258 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: lie for her. Like that's insane. I was like, are 259 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: you sure she said that's her house or she shouldn't 260 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: s They just dropped me here and they were like, no, 261 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: she said, as her house. Okay, weird, but things are 262 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: about to get weirder. At the time, Esme had a 263 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: medical condition that caused her to have seizures. She never 264 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: knew when a seizure was coming, and she was scared 265 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: to even take a shower. By herself because she didn't 266 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: want to collapse in the tub if a seizure suddenly hit. 267 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: And Danielle, she has a lot of illnesses, and I 268 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: don't really know what to make of it. I think 269 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: it's happy thing, since to fit in half of it 270 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: is to gain pity. I'm sure you friend, this daniel 271 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: had signal cell. I didn't know she had sickle cell. 272 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: I never heard that, but I am familiar when she 273 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: was in jail in Sara Sota, when they popped her 274 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: for scamming a bunch of banks there. She got out 275 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: to the hospital, she had this blood dizzyase like she 276 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: you know, you read the court filings, It's like, Wow, 277 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: she's really sick, but I don't believe she is. And 278 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: now you tell me she said she had sickle cell. 279 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: So yeah, So I for years like in fairness to 280 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: her because I'm not sure and I never want to 281 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: Sickle cell obviously only affect certain people, um, but it 282 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: can't affect Ashkinazi Jews. So there's a part of me 283 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: that says, technically, it couldn't be true. My feeling is 284 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: this song because I never saw her treatment for it. 285 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: But in addition to sickle cell, she did say she 286 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: had a clepsy that I don't know if it's true, 287 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: but called her. I was very nervous, and like I said, 288 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: Danielle was always a very good friend, or perhaps just 289 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: who you wanted her to be. And I told her 290 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 1: I had a big marble shower, and I said, yeah, 291 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: you know, I think I had a seizure. And she said, 292 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: I totally got it, I have a clepsy. And I said, 293 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: it just sucks because i don't really want to shower, 294 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: but I'm very nervous that I'm going to have a seizure. 295 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: And then then then like crack my head, I don't know, 296 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: and she said, listen, I have a lunch break. I 297 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: totally understand. It's so scary. And say, She's said, let 298 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: me come over during my lunch break, new shower. I'll 299 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: eat lunch here. And the way my room is set 300 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: up was I had a big master bedroom and I 301 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: had my shower, and I had left the door open. 302 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: So she's like, you just speak to me, you know, 303 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: during your shower. I'll be here if something happens, like 304 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: I'm right here, and my desk was off behind the 305 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: view of the shower and in the drawer of Esme's 306 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: bedroom desk sits her checkbook for a bank account her 307 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: mom opened to pay bills in Los Angeles. While Esme 308 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: is in the shower, she says she has no idea 309 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: that Danielle is rifling through her desk and stealing a 310 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: bunch of blank checks and lo and behold. About another 311 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: month after this, it was October and I get a 312 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: call from my mom's. He was screaming so loud. I 313 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: didn't drop the bud and my mom was like, I 314 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: can't believe you. I cannot believe you. You can't even 315 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: be trusted in the account that I watch. And I 316 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: was like, what what do you mean? My roommates at 317 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: the friend, she said, what's happened? And she was like, 318 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: she's stolen over twenty brand from her own account. She's 319 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: stolen over a twenty brand from her own account, and 320 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: he so contain that, And so I think my friend 321 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: called my mom down, like eventually, and she said, listen, 322 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: we'll find out what happened. And what's a city bank 323 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: on fair Fox, like going right on the fair box 324 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: and rose, I'll never forget this. And we went on 325 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: to a teller and my roommates said, this is the 326 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: account and she said, can you print every check for 327 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: usne so sure, and so check check they olliver coming through, 328 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: and one after it was mine, and then Danielle in 329 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: that life, and it was like it was early and 330 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: like almost like child's writing. Enforced herself on that, and 331 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: another came through it, and another and I remember I 332 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: just literally friends. I had actually thought at the time 333 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: it was the person I was dating, because he wasn't 334 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: he was like a party guy and he wasn't really 335 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: he wasn't super nice, and I just remember thinking the 336 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: whole time, please somebo him, because then I had approved 337 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: of my mom, Like I picked the wrong part, you know. 338 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: So I called my mom and I was like, it's Danielle, 339 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: so um. I at that point I started to actually 340 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: get angry, and so I said the music called police, 341 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: And basically my mom's said, listen, you've had a lot 342 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: of issues in your life. If somebody had called the 343 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: cops on you when you had done something wrong, but 344 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: they'd had the opportunity to tell me and give me 345 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: a chance to help you before you get stuck into 346 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: a system, I would have really liked that opportunity. So 347 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do the same so from Los Angeles as 348 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: my mom calls up Daniel's dad in New York and 349 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: my mom s would listen, Um, something's happened, explained, It 350 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: just said, uh, parents and parents, what what what what 351 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: you need to fix this? And her father what I 352 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: would problem. It's just like a very weird response. I 353 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: mean we kind of expected like an oh my god, 354 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. So the first thing was little shock value, 355 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: and that to me indicates this was not the first time. 356 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: And so the second thing that was weird is he 357 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: sort of kind of like asked my mom to help 358 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: him punish her as if like my mom like on 359 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: top of everything, should like also like try to do 360 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 1: this herself. He said, essentially, we'll pay you back. That's 361 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: not a problem. I'll send you a check. But she 362 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: needs to learn. Was like, I'm not going to tell 363 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: her that I'm going to pay you guys. She needs 364 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: to do this herself, needs to come out of her salary. 365 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: My mom said sure, fine, So she had to come 366 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: meet up with us and meet up with my mom 367 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: and give her checks. So over the course of the 368 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: next few months, Danielle agrees to meet up with us 369 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: May's mom and make payments in person. Now, the communication 370 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: between Danielle and my mom was wild. I mean, my mom, 371 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: she'd be late or she'd I just can't come today. 372 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: There's one point that she says, this is so unfair 373 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 1: and it's so annoying because my mom lives in Hancock Park. 374 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: She's like, I can't have to go all the way 375 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: over there. Why can't I seek to see to marrow 376 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: it's going birthday? There really is something weird I'm noticing 377 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: here about Danielle's birthday, which falls on oct Yep. She's 378 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: a scorpio, but that's not what's weird. If you recall, 379 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: Danielle talks publicly about getting arrested at the Mexican border, 380 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: and it was actually on her birthday. She said, quote, 381 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 1: it was at the Mexican border. I was coming into 382 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: the States on my birthday and they said there was 383 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: a warrant for me. And remember when Daniel's Los Angeles roommate, 384 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: Taylor Fercus, was getting evicted from their apartment after Danielle's 385 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: rent scam had played out and she was on vacation 386 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: in Thailand or Dubai or Bali or some far flung 387 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: place like that. Taylor can't recall exactly that Too was 388 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: on her birthday. So I'm texting her, messaging her on 389 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: Facebook like hey, we're getting evicted, Like what's going on. 390 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: I've been paying you all of this rent, Like what 391 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: are you doing? And she just kind of turns the 392 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: story into like, it's my birthday. Why are you making 393 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: me feel like such a bad friend on my birthday? 394 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: And back in Danielle is telling Esme's mom that she 395 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: can't meet her in Hancock Park, a super expensive and 396 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: glamorous neighborhood in Los Angeles, by the way, because it's 397 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: her birthday. I remember I was away and she called me, 398 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: and I was just saying, I said we should have 399 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: go on the cops, Like I just like I can't. 400 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I was like infuriate. Also, in the very 401 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: last episode, when Danielle is sentenced to five years in 402 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: Florida State prison for one of several Sarasta bank scams, 403 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: she pulls that too was around her birthday. Now you're 404 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: gonna go into custody today, miss Miller. And here's the 405 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: reason why. I don't know what it means, but there 406 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: seems to be something about the month of October and 407 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: Danielle's propensity for being found out that appear inextricably linked 408 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: in some way, or maybe it's just a strange coincidence. Anyway, Eventually, 409 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: Danielle does pay as May's mother back the full twenty 410 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: grand she'd stolen. As May mistakenly thinks this whole fraudulent 411 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: check thing is behind her and continues using the same 412 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: bank account. Then all of a sudden, another check, this 413 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: time for eight thousand dollars made out to Danielle's roommate 414 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: Taylor Fercus, is cashed out of as May's account. Now, 415 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: remember this is Danielle told her roommate Taylor to trick 416 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: her into signing that check over to her. She's like, 417 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: Esmey actually owes Me some money. I'm just gonna get 418 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: it from her and then it'll cover our rent, Like 419 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,719 Speaker 1: just give me a few days. And she made up 420 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: some excuse about like how Esmey's family was like fighting 421 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: with Danielle's family, and like it couldn't be known that 422 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: Esmey was going to be giving Danielle this money. And 423 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: so I said to Danielle, I was like, well, you 424 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: can have Esme make the check out to me and 425 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: I'll immediately make it out to you and I'll never 426 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: forget like I had. She did it in the middle 427 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: of the night. She came up and woke me up 428 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: from the middle of my sleep before I had to 429 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: go to work. She was like, here's here's the check. 430 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: Like sign it here, recortted to take care of this, 431 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: and I remember signing it in the middle of my sleep, 432 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: like writing on the back of the check. He did 433 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: the order of Danielle Miller and signed it. I never 434 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: deposited that check into my bank account, like, I never 435 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 1: saw that money. It was never mine. It just immediately 436 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: then went to Danielle and then fast forward that money 437 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: that she ended up stealing. I don't know what she 438 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 1: did with it, because then that's when we got the 439 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 1: actual like big eviction letter. But as May at this 440 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: point has no idea who Taylor even is. She just 441 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: knows an eight thousand dollar check made out to Taylor 442 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: Fercus and signed over to Danielle came out of her 443 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: account and she's piste. So she files a lawsuit in 444 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: Los Angeles Superior Court against Danielle and Taylor. But I 445 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: explained as May that Danielle actually framed Taylor to make 446 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: it look like she stole that eight thousand dollar check. 447 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: That's actually much more intelligent than I, even like I 448 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: thought she had wrote her name or said we did 449 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: this one, so I was kind of mixed the two. 450 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: But the fact that she said I made it out 451 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: to her, she framed her. As May now deeply regrets 452 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,360 Speaker 1: including Taylor in that lawsuit, but you can't really blame her. 453 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: All she knew at the time was in eight thousand 454 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 1: dollar check made out to someone named Taylor Fercus was 455 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: fraudulently withdrawn from her checking account, and so she acted 456 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: on that knowledge. But I would really love to talk 457 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: to Taylor and just apologize for my part in whatever 458 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: experience she had, because we actually from day one thought 459 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 1: that was the case, and because it was an attorney, 460 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: I couldn't just reach out to him. It would be 461 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: too dangerous for the case. Again, she did wrong me 462 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: to reach out and say, hey, can we talk. As 463 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: I'm wrapping up my conversation with as May, she shares 464 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: with me a memory she had blocked out for years 465 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: that recently came rushing back to her. Months before as 466 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: May realized Danielle had stolen her checks. They had both 467 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: spent a night out drinking in Los Angeles. We were drunk, 468 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: like stupid funny, he's drunk, I do you recalled, splitting 469 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: up and she went her way and I went my way. 470 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: So I lived at the time a beach with Kenyon, 471 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 1: and at the time my house was being renovated. I 472 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: just bought it, and it was a kind of vertical 473 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: hillside house. You walk up the stairs two flights to 474 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: get to the front door, like one of those sorts 475 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: of houses. Already asleep and probably like the room was 476 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: probably spinning, and I woke up and Danielle was standing 477 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: over me. So she broke in. Yeah, she broken and 478 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: she I wasn't scared. I just thought it was so weird. 479 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: But I also was not thinking correctly. I was very intoxicated. 480 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: She was next to me over my bed, and she 481 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: was rifling through something and probably in retrospect there to steal. 482 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: I remember saying to her because I knew in my 483 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: slumber and like weird state, that she still wasn't going 484 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: to be there, and so I think I said some 485 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: you know way you're doing here, and she's done something 486 00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: like I left my keys, and in my stupor, I 487 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: sort of remember being like like whatever, you know, just 488 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: like as you would with like a roommate. In the morning, 489 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: my friend comes over and I'm like, oh my god, wait, 490 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: like I think Danielle was in my room last night. 491 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: And so he's like no, and I was like no, no, no, no, 492 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: wasn't a dream, like she was in my room last night. 493 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my god, you're standing over 494 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: my bed last night. At that time, we didn't know 495 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: anything going on, but we always knew she was sort 496 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: of nuts, like you know, it was another wild Danielle story, 497 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: but weird. And just to confirm to herself and to 498 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: her friend that it really did happen, they both checked 499 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: the security cam footage the next day, and they both 500 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: are equally shocked by what they see. I watched in horror. 501 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: It was like I watched literally the video of her 502 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: coming into the pool area and I was no, no, 503 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: there's no way. And then we were wound and I 504 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: sort of scaling the wall, and so the wall had 505 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: like you know those houses in the hill, say, like 506 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: one wall and then like some plants or some dirt, 507 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: and then another wall and she climbed over. And so 508 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: at this point again freeze response and it's like, did 509 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: she have the car turn around and followed me back 510 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: to health, that she'd go to her place and got 511 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: in the car and come back to mine when time 512 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: was the sad Um did the whole night? She think 513 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: to herself, Because it's one thing if I call you 514 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: over to come and hang out with me and then 515 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: you go into my drawer like that's horrible, But it's 516 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: another to actually there's a thirty minute car ride between 517 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: her house and mine, like that is so intentional. And um, 518 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: there were hand friends because she'd been through the mud 519 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: and there were handprints and footprints that went up into 520 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: the wind know of my bathroom. Daniels always struck me 521 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: as someone who's like she did go after everyone. She 522 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: is dangerous, there's no impulse control. But I felt like 523 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: somewhere along the lines, like this could have been helped 524 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: or stopped or you didn't have to get this far. 525 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: And now, let's face it, she belongs in jail, but 526 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: someone who might have had a chance, and I think 527 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: she's a victim. There's a huge part of me that 528 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: sees it not just Daniel, but a lot of us 529 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: who helped traumatize her. Because everyone who quicks son cause trauma. 530 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,239 Speaker 1: This is a theme that has come up again and 531 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: again in our podcast. Did Danielle's childhood trauma of being 532 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: swift or Girl actually turned her into a con artist? 533 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: Do you study criminology, criminology, criminal justice, the whole shebang. 534 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: That's Kelsey Collins. She teaches criminology at the University of 535 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: South Carolina. Your folk is on women in the criminal 536 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: justice system. Yeah, definitely, gender and crime, how women are 537 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: talked about, and just female criminality in general. Is there 538 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: a link with childhood trauma and girls who become women 539 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: who grew up to commit crimes like daniel Miller? What 540 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,959 Speaker 1: is shown is that yes, there is definitely a correlation 541 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: between childhood trauma and specifically childhood sexual abuse. When women 542 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: commit crime in your experience, how many of them have 543 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: childhood trauma in their history? I would say, at least 544 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: in my experience. Being known as Swiffer Girl was no 545 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: doubt a heavy burden to bear for an adolescent Danielle Miller. 546 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: It's now known as one of the very first cases 547 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: of non consensual pornography going viral um Some people refer 548 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: to it as revenge porn. I don't know if I 549 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: would revenge porn is typically spurned lover distributing it, and 550 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: it was just a friend that had done this. It 551 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: was also child pornography that was distributed, so no one 552 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: got in trouble for distributing this video. But dan Yell 553 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: eventually embodied this bad girl persona, so she was labeled 554 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: as promiscuous and eventually, you know, she was referred to 555 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: as Swiffer girl and so kind of in order to 556 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: insulate herself from this trauma, she started to just take 557 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,959 Speaker 1: on this label of promiscuous party girl and just embody that. 558 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: So you think that incident changed the trajectory of her life. 559 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: I do see it as changing the trajectory of her life, 560 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,959 Speaker 1: but I don't think that it can be blamed for 561 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: what she did later on in life. I think that 562 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: our childhood trauma, once we're adults, we are responsible for 563 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: dealing with that and um, and she chose not to. 564 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: That was an extremely traumatic thing to happen to a 565 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: thirteen year old, but she is using that as kind 566 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: of a shield, even while she denies any culpability in 567 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,839 Speaker 1: her crimes. Asked for what Danielle says publicly about all 568 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: the scams she's accused of pulling in her life and 569 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: how and why she participated in a New York magazine 570 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: article basically cataloging all of her cons She says in 571 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: an interview, quote like, these are all things that I 572 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: learned listening to people talk and then researching. So as 573 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: you're detailing this to Gabby who wrote the article, are 574 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: you you're essentially, in my opinion, just kind of admitting 575 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: your crimes. Is that not what happened? Or does she 576 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: just place it that way? She just placed it that 577 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: way because I'm not I mean, I'm not guilty until 578 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm innocent until proven guilty, and I have 579 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: a not guilty plea on all my cases. She basically 580 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: implicated or made it seem like, I don't know, can 581 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,359 Speaker 1: you guys tell that I'm not a stupid girl? Like 582 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: do you really think I'm gonna sit there and say 583 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: I have open cases and talk about like And it's 584 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: so unfortunate that this article got put into that way, 585 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: not just for like my safety and my cases that 586 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: are ongoing right now, but for what the true heart 587 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: of the story was supposed to be. So what was 588 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: your intention of telling her you could just go I 589 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: thought this is all background background. She said, it was background, right, 590 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: Like you just thought you were kind of having a 591 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: conversation with her about scammers. If there's a universe where 592 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: any of that makes sense, astronomers have yet to discover it. 593 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: I mean, she's done identity theft, stolen money, defrauded so 594 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: many people and just doesn't care. Doesn't care. It's quite stunning. Yeah, yeah, 595 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: it's stunning. I can't even imagine. As I'm recording this. 596 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: It's December two, Danielle is sitting in Florida State Prison 597 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: serving her five year sentence, and it might shock you 598 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: to know that she's still very busy making calls, taking meetings, 599 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 1: working on a documentary All from Behind Bars. Journalist Jessica 600 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: Pressler is not surprised. Well, it totally makes sense. I've 601 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,479 Speaker 1: been asking myself like, oh, is this a job now? 602 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: Is being like a car and it's like, you know, 603 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: a known convicted con artist, Is this like a new 604 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: career path? And it totally makes sense. It's kind of 605 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: what we've been leading up to throughout the many years 606 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: of like octomom and just like the sex tapes that 607 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: turned into that made people in celebrities like scandals, you 608 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: get these celebrities. You can absolutely host like a club 609 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: at night for several thousand dollars as one of these 610 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: known people. And that is a world, and that is 611 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: an economy in its way, and it's a growing economy, 612 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: which is disturbing. As we come to the end of 613 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: this season of Queen of the kno is in the 614 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: rear view mirror and there were still two pending criminal 615 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: cases against Danielle Miller, the Sarah Sota first degree felony 616 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: case where she's accused of using the ideas of between 617 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: twenty and thirty people, and the federal case where the 618 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: Department of Justice is accusing her of trying to scam 619 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: nearly a million dollars in COVID relief cash. If she's 620 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: found guilty in one or both of those cases, she 621 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: could spend the next ten to fifteen years or more 622 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: behind bars. I'm following both cases closely and I'll be 623 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: posting updates at Queen of the Con on Instagram, So 624 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: stay tuned. But you should also be aware that literally 625 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: any day now, Danielle could pop up on network television 626 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: doing a teery tell all interview with Diane Sawyer or Oprah. 627 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: You know it's not good to give interviews. You don't 628 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: give interviews because you're incriminating yourself constantly. We have stepped 629 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 1: into a different time. Back in the day, and I'm 630 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: talking maybe the nineties or even early two thousand's, being 631 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: a con artist was a bad thing. Nobody wanted to 632 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 1: own up to it. Nobody wanted to brag about it 633 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 1: or do media interviews about it. But now there has 634 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: been a paradigm shift. A lot of con artists and 635 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: Adelvi slash Troken, Daniel Miller, and several others, it's cool 636 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: to be a con artist. They have a social media following, 637 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: they have people cheering them on which it's a strange 638 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: time to be alive? Is this strange time to be alive? 639 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: If you're enjoying Queen of the Con, clicks, share and 640 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 1: send it to your friends and family. Also leave us 641 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,879 Speaker 1: a five star review. Reviews increased the odds that other 642 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: listeners like you, We'll find us. Portions of public statements 643 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 1: made to the media by Daniel Miller were drawn matizes 644 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: verbatim in this episode, as were the questions and comments 645 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: from those interviewing her. Queen of the Con The Rich 646 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: Girl is a production of a y R Media and 647 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: I Heart Media. Hosted by Me Jonathan Walton. Executive producers 648 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions and Eliza Rosen for 649 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 1: A y R Media. Executive producer Paulina Williams. Written by 650 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 1: Jonathan Walton, Consulting producer Evan Goldstein, Segment producer Kathy Abraham, 651 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: Senior Associate producer Jill pass Nick, Coordinator George farm Sound 652 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: designed by Tim Mulhern, Edited and mixed by Tim Mulhern, 653 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: Supervising editor Victoria Chang, Audio engineer Justin Longerbeam Studio engineers 654 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: Matteo Berrigan, j Markovitz, and Philip Raskin. Mastered by Victoria Chang. 655 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: Legal counsel for A y R Media Giohnny Douglas, Executive 656 00:39:55,320 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: producer for iHeart Media. Maya Howard Voice acting by Melana Olsky. 657 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: Court records, police records, the Department of Justice, Homeland Security, 658 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: victim interviews, interviews with investigators, The New York Post, New 659 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,720 Speaker 1: York Magazine, and Spotify's Forbidden Fruits were the sources used 660 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 1: for this season of Queen of the con