Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WIKA F Daily with
Speaker 1: me your girl, Danielle Moody, recording live ish from my
Speaker 1: Brooklyn bunker of folks. You know, I want to talk
Speaker 1: today about something that has been really troubling right which
Speaker 1: is the fallout from the Texas Abortion Band. So last
Speaker 1: week there was a bit of a hopeful reprieve, which honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't know why people were feeling hopeful at all,
Speaker 1: because we knew where this case was going to go.
Speaker 1: That while a federal judge said that the band was
Speaker 1: unconstitutional and does not allow women to be able to
Speaker 1: make the choices that are necessary right to determine their
Speaker 1: own life outcomes, and that it goes against Rovie Wade,
Speaker 1: which is law of the land, we knew that this
Speaker 1: was going to be kicked down to another quarter of
Speaker 1: appeals where they are conservatives that have been stacked because unlike,
Speaker 1: let's say, what you know we've been doing Democrats, which
Speaker 1: is not talking about the courts, not talking about how
Speaker 1: important they are, not talking about attorney generals, state attorneys,
Speaker 1: like why all of this matters? We never focus on
Speaker 1: the courts as Democrats ever, we never talk about it.
Speaker 1: Maybe we talk about the Supreme Court, but not really.
Speaker 1: And so because of this, we are right now living
Speaker 1: in a state where we have a conservative Supreme Court,
Speaker 1: where we have three hundred some odd Trump justices across
Speaker 1: the country, and what we know to be true is
Speaker 1: that all of our most important issues do not get
Speaker 1: solved by Congress. I mean, right now, Congress can't even
Speaker 1: pass a fucking bill. Right they can't even pass the
Speaker 1: infrastructure bill. They can't do anything that actually matters. Why
Speaker 1: because you have two fucking Democrats and I use air
Speaker 1: quotes with this, two Democrats that have decided that they
Speaker 1: don't actually give a fuck about this country. Kirsen Cinema
Speaker 1: had the audacity to fucking tell people that I don't
Speaker 1: even talk to other members of Congress. I'm only talking
Speaker 1: to the President of the United States, Like, bitch, who
Speaker 1: do you think that you are? Right? I want people
Speaker 1: to continue attacking her in public, and I don't mean physically,
Speaker 1: but I mean asking her right about whether or not
Speaker 1: she's going to talk to her constituents, whether or not
Speaker 1: she gives a shit about them. But nonetheless, let me
Speaker 1: not digress and go back to Texas. The reality is,
Speaker 1: and what has been reported since this band took effect
Speaker 1: is that women all over Texas are now overwhelming the
Speaker 1: states around them and the abortion clinics that are there.
Speaker 1: Just recently, I saw a report on MSNBC done by
Speaker 1: a former guest and our friend, Yasmin Vesusan. She's down
Speaker 1: in Louisiana right now at Hope Clinic, right a clinic
Speaker 1: where the director has said that now currently seventy five percent,
Speaker 1: close to seventy five percent of the cases that are
Speaker 1: coming in are women from Texas. And we are learning
Speaker 1: that all of the abortion clinics in states around Texas
Speaker 1: are being pushed to their brink. That the parking lot
Speaker 1: is full of cars, all with Texas license plates. So
Speaker 1: what is it actually that Governor Abbott thinks that he's doing.
Speaker 1: Does he think that he is miraculously saving all of
Speaker 1: these embryos, saving these cells, and that women of Texas
Speaker 1: are going to learn their lesson and be forced into parenthood. No,
Speaker 1: He's just making what is already for some a very
Speaker 1: difficult choice, and for others it's not a difficult choice.
Speaker 1: It is a necessity. It is a necessity. It is
Speaker 1: something that they do in order to determine the outcome
Speaker 1: of their lives. So what does he think that this
Speaker 1: piece of bullshit legislation is doing. It isn't doing anything
Speaker 1: other than what it's intended to do, folks, which is
Speaker 1: punish women. This is what we don't talk about enough, right.
Speaker 1: We don't talk about the fact that these pieces of legislation,
Speaker 1: they are not intended to promote pro life or intended
Speaker 1: to do anything really except for one thing, and one
Speaker 1: thing alone, and that is to hurt women. That is
Speaker 1: to punish women for having the audacity, I guess what,
Speaker 1: to have sex in the first place. Right. The thing
Speaker 1: that frustrates me about the current predicament of abortion rights
Speaker 1: in this country, which, by the way, if you're thinking
Speaker 1: to yourself that you live in a blue state and
Speaker 1: everything is going to be okay because of where you
Speaker 1: currently are, it's not. It's not. What we know to
Speaker 1: be true is that we're not safe. We're not safe
Speaker 1: from white Christian supremacy in this country. We're not. It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you are safely in New York like
Speaker 1: I am, or you think that you're safely in California.
Speaker 1: They are coming for all of our rights. I spoke
Speaker 1: about this on Twitter. I tweeted months ago that first right,
Speaker 1: they come for facts, then they come for science right,
Speaker 1: then they come for LGBTQ rights, then they come for
Speaker 1: women's rights, then they come for voting rights, and they
Speaker 1: are receiving no pushback. Sure, there are court cases that
Speaker 1: are going to be pending, that are currently pending to
Speaker 1: take down the law, but the law was written in
Speaker 1: such a way that it's really hard to take it
Speaker 1: to court because it hasn't been activated. Right, So you
Speaker 1: will give people the right to be bounty hunters, to
Speaker 1: be abortion bounty hunters, but until an action is actually taken,
Speaker 1: there isn't really anything to take down. But what the
Speaker 1: intention was was to punish women, force them into parenthood,
Speaker 1: force them into miles hundreds of miles long journeys. You know.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I learned right about the clinic,
Speaker 1: the Hope Clinic in Louisiana that was covered is that Louisiana,
Speaker 1: this state has its own abortion laws, right obviously, as
Speaker 1: do all of the states, but in Louisiana, you have
Speaker 1: to what go in for an initial appointment, which is
Speaker 1: days off of work, a day off of work, not
Speaker 1: to mention the travel time that it takes to get there.
Speaker 1: So you're talking about maybe two days off to work.
Speaker 1: When you go into the clinic, you have your first
Speaker 1: initial appointment, Louisiana requires that you wait an additional twenty
Speaker 1: four hours before having the procedure. So now you're talking
Speaker 1: about multiple more than one, more than two, maybe three
Speaker 1: four days that you're missing from work. Well, what about
Speaker 1: hourly wage workers who don't have vacation time? What about
Speaker 1: the poor? What about women who don't have cars, who
Speaker 1: don't have access to the resources necessary to just hop
Speaker 1: on a flight and go to where they need to
Speaker 1: go to. So not only is this legislation about punishing women,
Speaker 1: but it's about punishing a particular woman, poor women, women
Speaker 1: of color. Right. And what's funny is that you know,
Speaker 1: one of the questions that I ask are have we changed, Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know the laws to make sure that these
Speaker 1: women are actually taken care of? Have we expanded welfare programs?
Speaker 1: Have we expanded social safety nets? Have we has Governor Abbott,
Speaker 1: on top of banning abortions, has he made childcare free? Right?
Speaker 1: Has he made it so that the men who are
Speaker 1: a part of this scenario are financially liable to support
Speaker 1: this child? Right? That you're being forced to carry. Is
Speaker 1: a state of Texas going to help you raise this child?
Speaker 1: Are they providing you with any resources? No, they're not.
Speaker 1: So there is nothing that has been done to help
Speaker 1: women who are being forced into motherhood. They're not providing
Speaker 1: you with any care, any help, any resources, nothing. So
Speaker 1: whose life do you actually give a shit about? Because
Speaker 1: it certainly is not the life of the child. Because
Speaker 1: if it was really about wanting to protect quote unquote life,
Speaker 1: then you would before expanding social safety nets to make
Speaker 1: sure that these low income, right oftentimes black and brown
Speaker 1: women then are able to do the best that they
Speaker 1: can in order to care for this child that they
Speaker 1: are being forced to have by the governor. But no,
Speaker 1: So the real question is what is the endgame? Because
Speaker 1: just so you know, Governor Abbott once again spoke the
Speaker 1: quiet part out loud when asked about birth control. You see,
Speaker 1: they're not just going after abortion, they're also coming or
Speaker 1: birth control as well. You see, they want to control
Speaker 1: every single fucking aspect of what it means to conceive. Right,
Speaker 1: we've already had cases about this right hobby lobby, the
Speaker 1: religious fucking craft store. They didn't want to pay for
Speaker 1: birth control for their employees. They cover viagra, they cover
Speaker 1: allergy medicine, they cover a whole host of things. But
Speaker 1: it was against their religion to want to cover a
Speaker 1: birth control So what do you think that Governor Abbott
Speaker 1: is up to next? He's going to make it so
Speaker 1: that probably businesses don't have to cover birth control. Do
Speaker 1: you know how expensive birth control is if you don't
Speaker 1: have insurance? Right? So again, what is the endgame here?
Speaker 1: Because they're not adding anything to help growing families, They're
Speaker 1: not adding anything into the law to help raise these children. No,
Speaker 1: they're just making it so that women who live in Texas, right,
Speaker 1: I guess, won't have sex at all or bear the
Speaker 1: consequences on their own. It's so disgusting because you see,
Speaker 1: it isn't just going to be in Texas. And that's
Speaker 1: why I am saying be prepared. This is a fight,
Speaker 1: this is a battle, This is a war, the next
Speaker 1: Christian crusade that is being waged in this country. And
Speaker 1: you're going to have coffeecats. We are already seeing the
Speaker 1: Texas coffeecats that are happening in Florida, in another state.
Speaker 1: The case going before the Supreme Court Mississippi fifteen week
Speaker 1: abortion ban again, these bands coming into place before women
Speaker 1: even know that they're pregnant. But you see, the point
Speaker 1: isn't about being pro life because on the same on
Speaker 1: the same vein, in the same vein, these people are
Speaker 1: against everything. They're against healthcare right, They're against protecting your
Speaker 1: kids in schools because they are banning vaccinations. So is
Speaker 1: the endgame for Republicans just death and misery and despair
Speaker 1: and cruelty and punishment. Like this is why I don't
Speaker 1: understand how Democrats are so fucking bad at messaging, because
Speaker 1: this is all that you would have to say to me,
Speaker 1: write any sane person. So what are you offering? Ask
Speaker 1: the fucking questions, dear reporters that are in Abbott's face
Speaker 1: with microphones. What's your endgame here? Governor? How do you
Speaker 1: actually plan to help these women and these families? Right?
Speaker 1: What kind of legislation are you going to be putting
Speaker 1: together to ensure the health and the well being of
Speaker 1: these children that you say we need to protect, But
Speaker 1: you see they don't. It's about power and control. And
Speaker 1: I wish that the questions would be asked so that
Speaker 1: we can hear it directly from the horse's mouth. But
Speaker 1: we all keep fucking pretending that we don't know what
Speaker 1: they're up to. This is their large plan. Let me
Speaker 1: break it down for you. You see, you create a
Speaker 1: fucking system where women don't have access to birth controls
Speaker 1: and they don't have access to abortion, forcing many of
Speaker 1: them right into what motherhood, forcing them out of the
Speaker 1: workplace because they're not going to be able to do
Speaker 1: both right, Like, they're not going to be able to
Speaker 1: dictate their economic wellbeing, and because now they're having kids
Speaker 1: that they didn't fucking want and could not take care of,
Speaker 1: they're going to be forced out of the workplace. As
Speaker 1: we saw during COVID. We're still in COVID. I don't
Speaker 1: know why I just said during COVID, but in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty at the height, you know how many women left
Speaker 1: the workforce, were forced out of the workforce because they're
Speaker 1: the primary caregivers over two million. So then what happens, Oh,
Speaker 1: they believe that what all of these empty positions will
Speaker 1: then go back to what only white men so that
Speaker 1: they can make America great again, pushing women back into
Speaker 1: the household, chaining them to children that they don't want,
Speaker 1: and then freeing up what it's just it's so fucking
Speaker 1: ridiculous that it's so clear. The goal is cruelty, the
Speaker 1: goal is punishment, The goal is white male domination. And
Speaker 1: how do you do that You get women out of
Speaker 1: the way. And how do you get women out of
Speaker 1: the way, You chain them, right, two families that they
Speaker 1: don't want. I can't imagine the fear that these women
Speaker 1: have right leaving and going traveling for hundreds of miles,
Speaker 1: most of them doing so alone, hoping to be seen
Speaker 1: at clinics that are being overrun right now, hoping that
Speaker 1: they have this life saving procedure. And I say life
Speaker 1: saving because abortion saves women's lives. It allows them to
Speaker 1: have choices, whether or not they can take a job,
Speaker 1: go to school. No one should be forced into motherhood.
Speaker 1: No one should be forced into that. What kind of
Speaker 1: life if you care really about kids, what kind of
Speaker 1: fucking life is that? It isn't one. But they don't care, folks,
Speaker 1: they don't care. And that is the message, right, That
Speaker 1: is the overarching message to women is that they don't care.
Speaker 1: Republicans don't give a fuck. And so it's amazing to
Speaker 1: me that we think that these people are going to
Speaker 1: take over the House and take over the Senate again
Speaker 1: on what platform? What fucking policy right? What are they?
Speaker 1: What are they? What the fuck are they offering to
Speaker 1: the American people. But you see by Biden not being
Speaker 1: able to get any of his agenda done, they can
Speaker 1: just point to and say, well, he hasn't done anything
Speaker 1: for you. But they won't tell you why. They won't
Speaker 1: say that it's because of their obstructionism, and Democrats won't
Speaker 1: call it out because they're too fucking scared and chicken
Speaker 1: shit to do so, because they're always worried about the
Speaker 1: reaction instead of worried about the present fucking moment. I
Speaker 1: don't give a fuck about what Republicans may do when
Speaker 1: they take back power. The goal should be that they
Speaker 1: never get power again. Because this slow moving, fucking coup
Speaker 1: is fucking moving and they are winning and they have
Speaker 1: they don't have Congress and they don't have the White House,
Speaker 1: but they got everything else. It is so fucking troubling
Speaker 1: to me, so troubling that it's like I see this,
Speaker 1: I see the you see the comet coming, and you're
Speaker 1: pointing in the sky and you're screaming, and you're telling
Speaker 1: people get out of the way, get out of the
Speaker 1: way the comment is coming, but it's like there's no
Speaker 1: voice coming out and no one is moving. That's how
Speaker 1: I feel about our democracy. It's going right like it
Speaker 1: is on its way out. Fascism, authoritarianism, cruelty, punishment is
Speaker 1: going to be the law of the land. We see it.
Speaker 1: We are seeing it happen slowly, state by state by state,
Speaker 1: and we're taking no urgent action. We're doing nothing, nothing
Speaker 1: to stop this. Most days I am I feel utterly hopeless.
Speaker 1: I do because I'm just like, how do you stop it?
Speaker 1: What can be done? And the thing is is that
Speaker 1: we need legislation. We need to end the filibuster, we
Speaker 1: need to protect voting rights, we need to protect women,
Speaker 1: we need to protect lgbtqp bull and instead Democrats are
Speaker 1: deciding right now to do absolutely fucking nothing. Coming up next, friends,
Speaker 1: is my conversation with Crystal little John talking about reproductive
Speaker 1: rights and where she thinks that things are headed. It
Speaker 1: ain't great, so stay tuned, folks. I am so happy
Speaker 1: to be joined on woke f Daily for the first
Speaker 1: time by doctor Crystal E. Little John, who is the
Speaker 1: author of the new book Just Get on the Pill.
Speaker 1: I want to just get on the pill, the uneven
Speaker 1: burden of reproductive politics, and you're also an assistant professor
Speaker 1: of sociology at the University of Oregon. We are living
Speaker 1: in some crazy times right now as it as we
Speaker 1: look at reproductive rights, as we look at the fact
Speaker 1: that something that we thought was cemented Rov Wade is not,
Speaker 1: and it's essentially what Republicans have been waiting for the
Speaker 1: last thirty years to reverse, and they are finally in
Speaker 1: a position to do so. What was your reaction to
Speaker 1: this week's position by a federal judge in Texas to
Speaker 1: put a halt to what they referred to as a significant,
Speaker 1: significant healthcare concern to women, to put a stop to
Speaker 1: this band. I was absolutely elated. I think we know
Speaker 1: how much people need abortion, we know how important abortion
Speaker 1: is as healthcare for people who get pregnant in this country.
Speaker 1: We know that this band shouldn't have happened in the
Speaker 1: first place, and so I felt incredibly grateful and elated
Speaker 1: that this is the news that I could go to
Speaker 1: sleep too last night. And I'm delighted to be able
Speaker 1: to talk with you about things today. You know, So
Speaker 1: for me, I will say this, I am not thrilled
Speaker 1: by what is happening with the Texas judge. The only
Speaker 1: reason I say that is because the decision is going
Speaker 1: to be kicked to the Fifth Circuit. The decision is
Speaker 1: going to make its way up to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: The Fifth Circuit is stacked with Trump and Mitch McConnell appointees,
Speaker 1: as is the Supreme Court. So what is your hope
Speaker 1: in terms of what this temporary hold will do in
Speaker 1: terms of galvanizing people to recognize that we are at risk,
Speaker 1: that those that are able to birth are at risk
Speaker 1: right now, and that this is just a pause on
Speaker 1: this longer horror show. I am hopeful that this is
Speaker 1: the moment that people realize that needs to be action.
Speaker 1: For folks that have not been on the front lines
Speaker 1: trying to be involved, I hope that they don't take
Speaker 1: this as a signal that they can slow down, that
Speaker 1: they can continue to not be active if they're if
Speaker 1: they're not doing things. I think that people involved in
Speaker 1: trying to agitate recognize that this action has been needed
Speaker 1: for a long time, because as you've as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: this is not new. These assaults are not new. Their
Speaker 1: folks are just trying to find different ways to continue
Speaker 1: to erode people's reproductive rights and abortion rights. And so
Speaker 1: my hope is that this signals to people that there
Speaker 1: is something to be done, that folks who have not
Speaker 1: been active realize that they have a role to play
Speaker 1: in getting elected representatives to hear their voices, to hear
Speaker 1: the voices of people that are out there on the
Speaker 1: streets marching for protection of people's rights. And I think
Speaker 1: most of all, I just hope that it doesn't signal
Speaker 1: to people that it's okay to slow down. I think,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, to recognize that this is a pause
Speaker 1: is crucial, but to understand that we need to keep
Speaker 1: fighting and we need to be out there making sure
Speaker 1: that something happens. This is not the time to slow down.
Speaker 1: It's the time to wake up and to make sure
Speaker 1: that if folks have been complacent and have been feeling
Speaker 1: like other people are out there doing the work, that
Speaker 1: they recognize that we all have a role to play.
Speaker 1: You know, you bring up the marches. Last weekend, we
Speaker 1: saw right over six hundred marches happen across the country
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. In New York City and other areas,
Speaker 1: with you know, thousands of women and allies getting out
Speaker 1: into the streets to protest against Texas against this distinct
Speaker 1: move by the Supreme Court, because not moving was their
Speaker 1: move right like intervening was the biggest, you know, show
Speaker 1: of their hand and the direction that this is going
Speaker 1: to add. How effective, though, do you think that getting
Speaker 1: into the streets is at this moment when we know
Speaker 1: that the decisions are being made in the courts. I think,
Speaker 1: as you're I absolutely agree with you that we don't
Speaker 1: have as much power obviously over what's going on in
Speaker 1: the courts. We have little to do with that. But
Speaker 1: I do think that that civil action is crucial. I
Speaker 1: think that it's it's crucial that people know that folks
Speaker 1: in the United States are not going to be complacent.
Speaker 1: We're not going to sit back while people's rights are
Speaker 1: being violated. And I think we can see in the
Speaker 1: history of our country and the history of civil action
Speaker 1: in this country that even as the power has resided
Speaker 1: in the courts, people being out there and marching for
Speaker 1: their rights, marching for their freedom, marching for the freedom
Speaker 1: of others. When we talk about allies, that has been
Speaker 1: instrumental in signaling right, in communicating the social discourse that's
Speaker 1: out there that suggests that people will not be okay
Speaker 1: with with having their rights violated. And I think even
Speaker 1: though we know that the action has to take place
Speaker 1: at the courts, I think courts recognizing where people stand
Speaker 1: is incredibly important for understanding what the what the people want,
Speaker 1: and what people are going to be willing to stand for.
Speaker 1: You know, um in your piece in the Time magazine,
Speaker 1: piece which you know coincides with your book, Just Get
Speaker 1: on the Pill, The uneven Burden of reproductive politics. Your
Speaker 1: time piece in Time magazine was why access to birth
Speaker 1: control is no substitute for abortion rights. Talk to us
Speaker 1: about that, because that seems to be right the fault,
Speaker 1: the failsafe. It's once again putting the burden right back
Speaker 1: on women um or back on people that are able
Speaker 1: to give birth to say, well, it's your responsibility to
Speaker 1: get an IUD or to be on a pill every
Speaker 1: single day and never miss it. Talk to us about
Speaker 1: why this cannot be a substitute and also why there
Speaker 1: are why large swaths of people are not on birth control.
Speaker 1: People absolutely need act to both abortion and contraception. That's
Speaker 1: full stop. For I think what challenges with for me
Speaker 1: as a researcher was seeing calls for people who get
Speaker 1: pregnant to get on prescription birth control. When we first
Speaker 1: heard news of the Supreme Court not dreading and I
Speaker 1: immediately a lot about the women I talked to in
Speaker 1: my book. I immediately thought about the research that exists
Speaker 1: showing the challenges that people who can conregnant and give
Speaker 1: birth have using prescription birth control methods. And I think
Speaker 1: it's really important that we keep in mind the needs
Speaker 1: of people acts see abortion, and those needs are to
Speaker 1: have abortion available, to have prescription birth control available to them.
Speaker 1: We can't have a reproductive freedom without having both of
Speaker 1: those vital healthcare services available for people. And so when
Speaker 1: it comes to reasons why people don't use don't use
Speaker 1: prescription birth control, so we're talking about methods like the pill,
Speaker 1: the IUD, the implant, there are lots of reasons why
Speaker 1: they don't. My research shows that dissatisfaction with prescription birth
Speaker 1: control methods is rampant with use of the methods, for
Speaker 1: reasons of side effects, for reasons of how accessing the methods.
Speaker 1: One of the things that is really important to keep
Speaker 1: in mind is that the average person who can get
Speaker 1: pregnant is looking at trying to prevent pregnancy for upwards
Speaker 1: to thirty years. So when you're talking about trying to
Speaker 1: for over thirty years, obviously or gonne birth prescription birth
Speaker 1: control to do that, but they're also going to need
Speaker 1: abortion to do that. And when you have these calls
Speaker 1: for people to get on in birth control, it is
Speaker 1: not based in considering people's needs around abortion access. It
Speaker 1: is based in this gendered understanding that people who can
Speaker 1: get pregnant are the ones who need to be doing
Speaker 1: the work to prevent pregnancy, and not based in they
Speaker 1: actually need Because if we think about what they actually
Speaker 1: want to need that's been communicated to us, they need abortion, right,
Speaker 1: people want and need abortion, and prescription birth control use
Speaker 1: is no substitute for that. How crazy is it, Crystal,
Speaker 1: that as we are battling in this country to hold
Speaker 1: on to abortion, that Mexico, a very religious, you know,
Speaker 1: steeped in Catholicism country, has just granted abortion access across
Speaker 1: the Country's credibly disheartening that we continue to see us
Speaker 1: birth I think, like the broader issues with control of
Speaker 1: people's bodies, we know that come up with all kinds
Speaker 1: of excuses and rationales for their efforts to ban abortion. Um,
Speaker 1: but when it cut. When it boils down to it,
Speaker 1: these are continued efforts to restrict a vital healthcare service
Speaker 1: that people deserve access to. UM. I have no words
Speaker 1: to describe what is happening and the ways that we
Speaker 1: see other countries doing what the United States should should
Speaker 1: should be doing, but we're you know, just going backward
Speaker 1: in these continue these these continuous efforts to enact new restrictions,
Speaker 1: increasingly restrictive restrictions bands. It's just it's mind boll going
Speaker 1: UM that we continue to see this happening when we
Speaker 1: know how important abortion access is for people in the
Speaker 1: United States and elsewhere, as we're seeing in country around
Speaker 1: the world. Right, we know it's vital service for people
Speaker 1: all over the place. It just continues to frustrate at me,
Speaker 1: is that we see this unfolded moving forward. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm only shocked right now. I talked about this on
Speaker 1: WOKF before All In Together put out a poll looking
Speaker 1: at the lack of enthusiasm in the eighteen to twenty
Speaker 1: nine year old range to vote right and then looking
Speaker 1: at the issues, breaking them down by gender, women and
Speaker 1: men on what is most important to them. Outside of
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. They are saying for women, thirteen percent of
Speaker 1: the eighteen to twenty nine range care about abortion. Abortion
Speaker 1: is their number one issue, that is for women. Why
Speaker 1: is it but the number is half that of it
Speaker 1: being import to men? Why do we always like why
Speaker 1: we know that, like it takes two to be able
Speaker 1: to you know, to get pregnant, So why is it
Speaker 1: always that it is the bigger issue for women and
Speaker 1: not men. This is a reflection of the continued tendency
Speaker 1: to gender reproduction in the United States. Right to gender
Speaker 1: the process of having children, to gender the process of
Speaker 1: taking care of children, and it is incredibly frustrating that
Speaker 1: we continue to see it gendered in this way. Right
Speaker 1: when we talk about telling women to get on prescription
Speaker 1: birth control because of abortion bands, telling people in this
Speaker 1: country that affordable access to birth control is a woman's issue,
Speaker 1: versus recognizing that while it is the person who can
Speaker 1: birth who's taking a prescription racial method, at this point,
Speaker 1: it is absolutely beneficial to couples when a person can
Speaker 1: prevent pregnancy using those methods, and so to see, I'm
Speaker 1: not surprised that we have this data. In my experience
Speaker 1: talking with people about using birth control to prevent using
Speaker 1: prescription birth control to prevent pregnancy. You hear similar things
Speaker 1: where they think of it as being beneficial for women,
Speaker 1: versus recognizing that while it is the person who that
Speaker 1: person who takes the method, the partner is benefiting from
Speaker 1: their use of that method to prevent pregnancy. They're benefiting
Speaker 1: from not wearing condoms while the person is using birth
Speaker 1: control prescription birth control prevent pregnancy. And so abortion, to
Speaker 1: me is just one more of those issues where we
Speaker 1: believe that having children is a woman's issue, we believe
Speaker 1: that caring for children is a woman's issue, and we
Speaker 1: reinforce these ideas about gender that are not natural there.
Speaker 1: It's absolutely social. There's there's no reason why it has
Speaker 1: to be understood this way. And I think more go
Speaker 1: even more important than that, to recognize that protecting everybody's
Speaker 1: rights should not be a gender based issue in the
Speaker 1: first place, right that that in itself should not have
Speaker 1: to depend on a person's gender. We should just be
Speaker 1: willing and able and enthusiastic about protecting people's rights. But
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, it continues to be understood in gender
Speaker 1: terms and then makes people feel like they don't have
Speaker 1: to care about the violation of people's rights. When it occurs.
Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that you brought up
Speaker 1: in in your Time magazine article too, was the decline
Speaker 1: in use, or at least the admission by men surveyed
Speaker 1: that they're not using condoms regularly. Was that shocking to you?
Speaker 1: It wasn't shocking to me that men don't use its regularly.
Speaker 1: It's shocking to me that we accept that men regularly.
Speaker 1: That is that is the shocking thing, to be right.
Speaker 1: The fact that men are resistant to using condoms comes
Speaker 1: up in my in my interview data that I use
Speaker 1: in my research all the time. So I wasn't shocked
Speaker 1: that men were resistant to using condoms, but I was
Speaker 1: particularly astonished that we accept that that is the quote
Speaker 1: unquote natural order of things, and that that's the way
Speaker 1: that it's just going to be, versus having social efforts
Speaker 1: and accountability to get partners to use condoms. Because the
Speaker 1: reality is that they're important for preventing pregnancy, yes, but
Speaker 1: they're also incredibly important for preventing STI right, And it's
Speaker 1: under this assumption that pregnancy prevention is the only thing
Speaker 1: that people are thinking about is incredibly shortsighted, and doesn't
Speaker 1: It does a disservice to people who are trying to
Speaker 1: fight for bodily autonomy and have their rights respected when
Speaker 1: they want their partners to use condoms. So I wish
Speaker 1: that there was more conversation about the importance of having
Speaker 1: partners wear condoms, not just to protect people from STIs,
Speaker 1: but to also support partner's efforts to protect pregnancy and
Speaker 1: think more more than anything, to simply respect people's rights
Speaker 1: to bodily autonomy. In my research, the key that if
Speaker 1: people want their condoms for whatever reason they want them
Speaker 1: to do so, that should be respected. It should not
Speaker 1: be something that they should have to try and convince
Speaker 1: a partner to do. It should be the norm they
Speaker 1: expected rule for the relationship and for the sexual encounter.
Speaker 1: But it's it's unfortunate that it isn't. And I think
Speaker 1: that's why we have such low rates of male participation
Speaker 1: in condom use, in part because we that it's okay
Speaker 1: that they don't do it. You know, Republicans have always
Speaker 1: had a crusade against abortion, and they are now winning
Speaker 1: right like that. There's no way, no other way to
Speaker 1: look at the predicament that we're in right now except
Speaker 1: to say that their thirty year plan is coming into
Speaker 1: fruition with the owning of the courts and knowing that
Speaker 1: most of our social issues and ills are solved through
Speaker 1: the courts and not just through voting. That being said,
Speaker 1: do you believe that reproduct that the pill and other
Speaker 1: contraceptions are going to be next up on the chopping
Speaker 1: block for Republicans? That you know we have December first
Speaker 1: right will be the Supreme Court hearing on the Mississippi
Speaker 1: fifteen week ban. We know that this Texas law will
Speaker 1: go through the Fifth Circuit and more like more so
Speaker 1: go to the Supreme chord as well. Are they going
Speaker 1: to be done when they're able with just abortion or
Speaker 1: do you think that they're coming for the pill and
Speaker 1: other contraception's lap next and that we're not prepared for that.
Speaker 1: This is a long standing battle and the pill and
Speaker 1: other forms of prescription contraception are on the chopping block.
Speaker 1: I think we need to be concerned for abortion rights.
Speaker 1: People that are concerned about abortion rights but don't necessarily
Speaker 1: think that we have to be concerned about prescription birth
Speaker 1: control I think should change their minds about that. I
Speaker 1: think that people that are are not concerned about abortion
Speaker 1: but are may not even be thinking about prescription birth control.
Speaker 1: They might just be taking for granted that prescription birth
Speaker 1: control is there's to use via the Affordable Care Act.
Speaker 1: I think that everybody should be really paying attention to
Speaker 1: what's going on right now. We know that promoting abstinence
Speaker 1: has also been a component of the Republican strategy and
Speaker 1: also disastrous, which is exactly which is also disastrous and
Speaker 1: does not reflect people's real world experiences. And so when
Speaker 1: we're when that's the strategy right, it makes perfect sense
Speaker 1: then to go after contraception, because the ideas that you
Speaker 1: need to promote abstinence for people, you need to encourage
Speaker 1: them not to have sex, and we know that doesn't
Speaker 1: work right, Even people who plan to abstain can end
Speaker 1: up and do end up having sex. And so we
Speaker 1: people need prescription birth control and other forms of birth
Speaker 1: control methods that are available to them. They need to
Speaker 1: make sure they have access to them. And taking this
Speaker 1: approach that suggests that there is anything other than unfettered
Speaker 1: access to these methods as a coherent strategy for helping
Speaker 1: people in this country and for protecting their needs to
Speaker 1: me is implausible, nonsensical um And I do think unfortunately
Speaker 1: that contraceptives are going to be under attack, and in
Speaker 1: fact are under attack. It's it's something that when it
Speaker 1: comes to thinking about reproductive rights and as I mentioned,
Speaker 1: people's autonomy to control their bodies, there's just so many
Speaker 1: reasons to be to be disheartened. It's it's it's unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Where do you think that we're headed and what do
Speaker 1: you think that we should we should be preparing for
Speaker 1: right now in this reproductive rights battle resurgence, what should
Speaker 1: we be doing? I think that we are headed for
Speaker 1: increasing attacks on abortion rights, and as we were just
Speaker 1: talking about on contraceptive access m I think that the
Speaker 1: Texas band is just kind of set the stage for
Speaker 1: other states to follow suit, and we've seen signals that
Speaker 1: that's what people are going to do. And I think
Speaker 1: that what needs to be done is that people need
Speaker 1: to be demanding action of elected representatives to make clearer
Speaker 1: that their constituents do not support these efforts, and to
Speaker 1: make clearer that they are for protection of people's rights
Speaker 1: to abortion and contraception. I think that in my work
Speaker 1: right I find that reproductive justice is incredibly important. I
Speaker 1: think that people need to contribute to efforts to support
Speaker 1: local reproductive justice organizations who are on the ground doing
Speaker 1: the work. I think when it comes to people knowing
Speaker 1: what to do, I think that can that's oftentimes a
Speaker 1: sticking point, right. I think in part they just don't
Speaker 1: know what they can do, and so I think thinking
Speaker 1: about what local organizations need and how to support those
Speaker 1: organizations is a key strategy that people can use to
Speaker 1: become an evolved And I also think donating to abortion
Speaker 1: funds um not. You know, people might start thinking about
Speaker 1: starting abortion funds right, but the key is to donate
Speaker 1: to the organizations that are doing the work to protect
Speaker 1: abortion rights for people who need access to them and
Speaker 1: who in this time right now, are especially in need
Speaker 1: of support. I can't thank you enough for the work
Speaker 1: that you're doing and for spending a little bit of
Speaker 1: time with us to understand where we are folks. The
Speaker 1: book is Just Get on the Pill, The Uneven Burden
Speaker 1: of Reproductive Politics. Doctor Krystal little John, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining Woke a f and as this fight continues,
Speaker 1: I hope that we can call on you to come
Speaker 1: back on and and help us navigate what is becoming
Speaker 1: a precarious field for reproductive rights. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for having me and I'd love to be on a
Speaker 1: talks for Thanks so much, appreciate you. That is it
Speaker 1: for me today on Woke af AS always power to
Speaker 1: the people and to all the people power, get woke
Speaker 1: and stay woke as fuck.