1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: On this episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly, the Seattle Mariners 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: have gone twenty one years without making the playoffs. It's 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: the longest drought of any team in any of the 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: four major American sports leagues. Our producer and resident Mariners 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: supporter Cooper McKim tells us what it's been like for 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: the fans, and later we tell you about the war 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: that's being waged for control of the fastest growing sport 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: in America, pickleball. But first, Herschel Walker won the Georgia 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: Republican primary for Senate on Tuesday. We take a look 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: at how he became the nominee by fully embracing the 11 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: Mega movement and what that says about the power of 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: celebrity and our deeply divided political system. It's Wednesday, May 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm your host, John Gonzalez from Sports Illustrated 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. This is Sports Illustrated Weekly. Before we begin, 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: a note that this story contains discussion of gun violence, suicide, 16 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:12,279 Speaker 1: and domestic violence. Last night, one of the best running 17 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: backs in football history won a very important race. The 18 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: Associated Press is now projecting that former football star Herschel 19 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: Walker will win the Republican primary In the race for 20 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: US Senator for Georgia, Herschel Walker led George's Republicans Senate 21 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: primary from wire to wire, and his victory sets up 22 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: a hotly contested general election against incumbent Senator Raphael Warnock. 23 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: Like much of the GOP these days, Walker has embraced 24 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: in espoused the MAGA talking points promoted by former President 25 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, a man he met and befriended decades ago 26 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: when both were part of the original USFL While Walker 27 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: rails against immigration and critical race theory and fall the 28 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: claims that Trump won the twenty twenty election, he has 29 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: largely refused to address allegations of domestic violence and other 30 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: troubling incidents from his past, none of which seems to 31 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: have bothered the Republican voters who elevated him as their 32 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: nominee for November. So what does Walker's ascendants tell us 33 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: about our idolatry of sports and fame as well as 34 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: the state of our strain political system? How is it 35 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: the Walker, a man once celebrated for running the football, 36 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: ended up running for Senate. In the nineteen eighty election 37 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: returns in Greene County, Georgia, Herschel Walker received three right 38 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: in votes for President of the United States. He was 39 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: in high school. I'm Curry Kirkpatrick. I was a writer 40 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: at Sports Illustrated from nineteen sixty five out of college 41 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:52,119 Speaker 1: to nineteen ninety two. In nineteen eighty one, I did 42 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: a cover story for Sports Illustrated about Herschel Walker. We 43 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: put him on the cover because the previous football season 44 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: as a freshman, he led Georgia to the National Championship, 45 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: a twelve and old undefeated season where they beat Notre 46 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: Dame in the National Championship game. When the Irish scored, 47 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: Old Herschel said, well, you're pretty good, old son. When 48 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: the Joe yard dog get meat the ball, I'll show 49 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: you how it's done. Don't want to be a noun 50 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: hook roll down. He got hurt in the National championship 51 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 1: game against Notre Dame, he came back out to run 52 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: for over one hundred yards and beat the Irish almost 53 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: single handedly. That's how great this guy was as a 54 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: football player. I still think it's one of the most 55 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: remarkable seasons in the history of college athletics. The Irish 56 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: bout their heads because they knew that they've been beat, 57 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: and they've laid that national Championship. On the ground at 58 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: the Bulldogs beat, Herschel said, Irish, just come on back 59 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: if you ever want to try again. I've told you 60 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: once you son of a gun, We're the Mets that 61 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: ever been. Don't His career was all planned out that 62 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: Herschel seemed to have a sense of what he was 63 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: going to be. In other words, he learned to be 64 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: a hero in high school, and I think herschel Walker 65 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: learned to be a hero before he became a football star. 66 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: There were many people I talked to them that said 67 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: he was almost like a politician even back then, and 68 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: now he's running for the US Senate. We should give 69 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: all athletes the right to move over into politics, but 70 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: at that point we should then hold them to account, 71 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: and not just for being an athlete, but what they 72 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: are now, what they've become, what herschel Walker has become. 73 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: You're now a politician, and we have to figure out 74 00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: what that means. Control of the US Senate could be 75 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: hanging in the balance depending on this contest. I'm Greg Bluestein. 76 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm the Plittle Group porter for the Lanta Journal Constitution. 77 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: I'm also the author of a new book called Flipped 78 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: How Georgia turned purple and broke the monopoly on Republican power. 79 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 1: I am from Georgia. I'm a Georgia native college at 80 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: University of Georgia. As it turns out, Greg is also 81 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: something of a sports fan. Huge, huge, big Georgia fan. 82 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: I went to both the National Championship game in Indianapolis, 83 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: the Orange Bowl, the SEC Championship, first time National Championship 84 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: since before I was born. At the Irish one gotta 85 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: be Walker puts down. Okay, here's over. Georgetown has one 86 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: seventeen trip fan. It was herschel Walker. It was in 87 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: the early eighties. And again it was before I was born, 88 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: but I grew up hearing stories about herschel Walker and 89 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: his athletic feats. You know, just the name was synonymous 90 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: with Uga growing up. I don't know if people really 91 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: grasp how big herschel Walker's star is in Georgia. My 92 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: name is Tia Mitchell. I'm the Washington correspondent for the 93 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: Atlanta Journal Constitution. Herschel Walker he's the biggest star to 94 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: come out of the University of Georgia. He's also a 95 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: Georgia native. I think there was assumption that he would 96 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: run in Texas. That's where he was living and has 97 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: been living for several years. He's lived in Texas for 98 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: decades and yet still as probably almost universal name recognition 99 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: in Georgia before we moved back here a few months ago. 100 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: That's the power of Herschel Walker's brand in his image 101 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: in Georgia. Right now, America is so proud of this man. 102 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: One of the greatest athletes in our country's history, the 103 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: greatest running back, who played at a certain school that 104 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: you love very much. Had he broke every record. Trump 105 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: and Walker have known each other since nineteen eighty four, 106 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: when Trump bought the USFL team that lured Walker away 107 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: from Georgia. They've been friends ever since. In his two 108 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: thousand and eight memoir, Walker wrote that Trump became a 109 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: mentor to him and even modeled his business practices after him. 110 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: They have this very unique bond in a way that 111 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: I think no other candidate probably has. They are so close, 112 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: We've been together for a long time. I want to 113 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: be a leader like him when I get to that 114 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: Senate seat to show everyone I love America, thank you. 115 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: I mean, he went to Disney World when Donald Trump's kids, 116 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: you know, he joked that he babysat them. Like the 117 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: former president, herschel Walker leans more on hyperbole than policy 118 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: while on the campaign trail, and also like Trump, Walker 119 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: has been more inclined to ignore troubling allegations against him 120 00:07:54,280 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: rather than addressed them. In the political world, candidates and 121 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: their allies hire teams of researchers who do what we 122 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: call opposition research, and they pour through everything they can 123 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: possibly find about a candidate. And you know, and some 124 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,679 Speaker 1: of it's a minor and some of it's not so minor. 125 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: There's a lot. His opo book is pretty thick, to 126 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: be honest. Domestic abuse allegations. There's been police reports and 127 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: allegations and court documents that show that he violently assaulted 128 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: his ex wife. There is an incident with a Dallas 129 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: Cowboys cheerleader document and police reports as well. You also 130 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: have his business buildings and he's been accused of launching 131 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: businesses that don't perform well or don't pay their bills. 132 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: And the third part, I think is the more touchy subject, 133 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: which is his mental health. Yeah, the campaign show herschel 134 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: Walker's very frank about his mental health struggles, and he 135 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: says even as a kid, he was picked on. He 136 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: was bullied and that's when he got attracted to athletics. 137 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: That's when he started working out and sticking out for himself. 138 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: But he says he has struggled with this associative identity 139 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: disorder for years. He attributes that to some of the 140 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: violent and erratic behavior he had, especially during his playing career, 141 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to violence against women, women who 142 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: was very close to herschel Walker hit such a mental 143 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 1: health low that he felt compelled to play Russian Roulette. 144 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: This is herschel Walker on The Howard Stern Show in 145 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: twenty ten. Let's explain to people they don't know what 146 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: Russian Roulette is. You take a gun and you put 147 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: this is the worst thing you could ever do. You 148 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: take a bullet and you stick it in one of 149 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: the six chambers and then pull a trigger. And how 150 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: many times have you done that? Over six times? In 151 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: a political campaign where everything is sort of weaponized, that 152 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: could come back to haunt him as someone who who 153 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: felt so depressed that he was willing to take his 154 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: own life and I was running to be one of 155 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: the most powerful politicians in the nation. It's not just 156 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 1: about his violent history. This is such a well known 157 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: story in Georgia, especially to a graduates and fans like myself. 158 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: But herschel Walker famously did not graduate from the University 159 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: of Georgia. He left earlier to go pro But his 160 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: campaign and even herschel Walker himself and speeches and even 161 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: on his campaign website for a time he said he 162 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: graduated from the University of Georgia. It was such an 163 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: easily disproven fact. Anyone who follows Georgia football, especially during 164 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: that era, new that he didn't graduate. And these are 165 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: the issues that his rivals will use in the general 166 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: election campaign to sort of paint this picture of someone 167 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: who is not to be trusted, who is not a 168 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: legitimate candidate. His opponent, Raphael Warnock and his allies are 169 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: going to make a major deal about whether he really 170 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: has been held to account for some of these past incidents. 171 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: Raphael Warnock, he's already got more than twenty six million 172 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: dollars in cash on hand, and so what we're watching 173 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: over the next few weeks is how Senator Warnock and 174 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: his allies choose to use some of these damaging reports 175 00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: that have already come out. It's so amazing to me 176 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: what a central role sports has played in Georgia's US 177 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: Senate contest, because yeah, it was even before herschel Walker 178 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: got in the race. Kelly Leffler was the co owner 179 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: of Atlanta's w NBA franchise, The Dream, and amid the 180 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter protest, Kelly Leffler saw an opening. Kelly 181 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: Leffler's surprised people because instead of being the moderate conservative 182 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: whose brand was I'm a leader and a tough boss lady, 183 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 1: but I'm not going to scare you off, what her 184 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: brand became was far right conservative. There are calls for 185 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: US Senator Kelly Leffler to step away from the Atlanta Dream, 186 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: the w NBA team she co owns. After writing a 187 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: letter opposing players wearing Black Lives Matter and say her 188 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: name slogans on warm up jerseys, they made the strategic 189 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: decision to write an open letter to the w NBA, 190 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: and it's triggered this uproar from the w NBA and 191 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: from her own team's players. They turned on her. Not 192 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: only did they say we don't support what you're saying, 193 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: they said vote warnut. Literally, they wore black shirts with 194 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: bold white letters that said vote warnut, and they wore 195 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: it to games and they posted it on social media. 196 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: It was a turning point for Senator Warnox campaign at 197 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: the time. You know, he was always the front letter 198 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: he was always expected to get the Democratic nomination, but 199 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: he was lagging and fundraising, he was having a hard 200 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: time getting his message out and it just put him 201 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: in an even stronger position and he won this special 202 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: election runoff against Kelly Lefler, who branded him over and 203 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: over again this radical liberal, radical liberal, and he wanted 204 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: with the ability to connect with moderate voters, especially in 205 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: the suburbs. Raphael Warnock, he has one of the most 206 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: powerful platforms in not just Georgia, but probably the South 207 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: as the lead preacher, the lead pastor at Ebenezer Baptist Church, 208 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: which is Martin Luther King Jr's historic pulpit. And when 209 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: they hired Reverend Warnock, they hired someone who went to 210 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: morehouse like doctor King, who pledged the same fraternity as 211 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: Doctor King. He clearly embraced that role as head pastor Ebenezer. 212 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: His first time in one of those Senate office buildings 213 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: was not as a senator. It was as an activist 214 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: being arrested because he was protesting on healthcare. His honeless 215 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: role in Atlanti's civic life as this sort of voice 216 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: of conscience. He gave the eulogy at the late Congressman 217 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: John Lewis's funeral, But as his life took shape, instead 218 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: of preaching sermons, he became walker. He became a living, 219 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: walking sermon about truth telling and justice making in the earth. 220 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: He loved America until America learned how to love him back. 221 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: We celebrate Don Luis. He also developed a really close 222 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: relationship with Stacy Abrams, and it was Stacy Abrams who 223 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: encouraged Rafael Warnock to run for the USA. Herschel Walker's 224 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: race and being able to match another black man against 225 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: Raffael Warnock definitely plays a role in why he was 226 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: recruited to move from Texas back to Georgia to run 227 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: for this office. And quite frankly, it will help herschel 228 00:14:53,160 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: Walker pull some support from Raffael Warnock because black male 229 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: voters are more open to voting Republican than black female voters. 230 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: Donald Trump made in roads with black male voters in 231 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Raphael Wardock is the first black US Senator 232 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: in state history and in Georgia, the African American electorate 233 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: is the cornerstone of the Democratic Party is the most 234 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: important electoral block. You cannot win the party nomination, let 235 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: alone a general election campaign if you're a Democrat without 236 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: overwhelming support from Black voters. And that's why herschel Walker's 237 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: candidacy it's so interesting, because if herschel Walker can win 238 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: fifteen percent of the African American vote in Georgia, this 239 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: race might be over. There's one thing I've learned over 240 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: the last few months of covering herschel Walker, it's don't 241 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: underestimate him. We've talked about all the things that could 242 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: have brought his star down over the years, allegations of 243 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: not treating women well, operating his businesses poorly, his struggles 244 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: with mental illness. Despite all of that, his brand remains 245 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: really strong, especially in Georgia. He has Donald Trump support, 246 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: even they also has Mitch McConnell's. He's the rare candidate 247 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: who can try to bridge that gap between mainstream Republicanism 248 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: and the MAGA crowd. He came from nothing, went to Georgia, 249 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: made the most of that, went to the NFL, made 250 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: the most of that. Herschel Walker continues to make the 251 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: most of his situation. He has the factor where he 252 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: knows how to tell his story in a compelling way. 253 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: I went to one event recently and many of the 254 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: people in the audience were not his supporters, but I 255 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: interviewed a few of them on the way out. They 256 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: came away saying, Wow, you know, I can vote for 257 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: this guy. This race is going to be a real 258 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: test of whether or not twenty twenty and the Democratic 259 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: successes in Georgia were a fluke, or whether or not 260 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: Democrats truly have staying power. We'll also see the extent 261 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump's influence. Do they want the pastor principal 262 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: moral leader on progressive issues or the football star who says, 263 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: I'm just like you, I made it, I'm gonna make 264 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: America great again. Georgia is the most politically divided state 265 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: in the nation, eleven thousand or so votes divided Joe 266 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: Biden and Donald Trump. So we are this fifty fifty 267 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: tinderbox right now. And that's why this race could really 268 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: go either way. Which of these two powerful black men 269 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: do you want representing you in Washington. That's what the 270 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: choice is going to come down to. Tia Mitchell and 271 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: Greg Bluestein are political reporters for the Atlanta Journal Constitution. 272 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: You can hear them both regularly on the Politically Georgia 273 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: podcast from the AJC. You can find a link in 274 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: our show notes. Special thanks to SI veteran Curry Kirkpatrick 275 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: for adding to this conversation. After a break twenty one 276 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: long years of bad baseball in Seattle, will this finally 277 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: be the season the Mariners make it back to the playoffs? 278 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: Ken Griffey Jr. Randy Johnson, Ichiro Suzuki. Those are the 279 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: kinds of names baseball fans in Seattle still mention when 280 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: they talk about the Mariners. Great players who met a 281 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: lot to the franchise in the fan base, but they're 282 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: also guys who reached their peaks decades ago. Since then, 283 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: it's been a whole lot of nothing for the Seattle Mariners. 284 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: In fact, they haven't reached the playoffs in twenty one years. 285 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: That's the longest streak of any team in all four 286 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: of the major American sports leagues. It's been a rough 287 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: run for the organization and the beleaguered diehards who follow it. 288 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: But this year was supposed to be different. Producer and 289 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: resident Mariners fan Cooper mckimp reports why a lot of 290 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: people went into this season with high hopes for the 291 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: ms and why they're trying to remain positive even though 292 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: the Mariners have lately hit a bit of a rough 293 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: patch again, because the Mariner is not only in the 294 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: longest playoff 'ro out and major professional sports, but do 295 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 1: so by shocking the Astros and winning the AL West. 296 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: This team is loading up and then they have one 297 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: of the best farm systems in all of the league. 298 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna pick the Mariners like to win this division. 299 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: I think the pieces that they added are legit. It's 300 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: pretty obvious this is the best bet in the AL West. 301 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: The Seattle Mariners are known as the lovable losers of 302 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: Major League Baseball. They haven't been to the playoffs since 303 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 1: two thousand and one, since the movie Gladiator won Best Picture, 304 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: since Bill Clinton delivered his farewell addressed to the United States, 305 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: Thank you, God bless you, and God bless the Maraba. 306 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: This twenty one year stretch is the longest active playoff 307 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: drought of any team in all four major North American sports. 308 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: The Cubs, Red Sox, even the Cleveland Browns have all 309 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: made their respective playoffs since the Mariners have, and they 310 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: don't even have a curse to blame. What else could 311 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 1: explain the suffering and lament that followed the Socks since 312 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: the heavy days of nineteen eighteen and before. So how 313 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: did the Mariners get to this point? And is this 314 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: the year they finally end their playoff drout? First, I 315 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: want to look back and understand where the Mariners came from. 316 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: They were wrought from the iron of losing. Formed officially 317 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: as an expansion team in nineteen seventy seven. Year after 318 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: year they lost all the way through the seventies, all 319 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: the way through the eighties. But then a particular first 320 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: round pick came along and changed everything for the franchise. 321 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: Seattle selection is George Kenneth Griffy, center fielda from Moula 322 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: High School in Ohio. That draft pick quickly turned Mariners 323 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: games into meaningful baseball. Ron by N Riffy Junior and 324 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: both of them to night Van type major job the 325 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: three two pits rolling on that belt. It ju had 326 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: hit number one. I grew up a Mariners fan in 327 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: part thanks to my uncle John Boyko, who remembers watching 328 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: Junior very well. He was pretty much our first real 329 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: superstar that garnered national tension, National TV and all that stuff. 330 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: Ken Griffey Junior changed what it meant to be a 331 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: Mariners fan. The losing suddenly stopped. In nineteen ninety five, 332 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: the Mariners made it to the playoffs for the very 333 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: first time. They had a team many still remember today 334 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: thought not only of Ken Griffey Jr. But Randy Johnson, J. Buhner, 335 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: Edgar Martinez and freaking A Rod. I mean, the balls 336 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: around the city was crazy. I mean that it was awesome. 337 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: Everybody was happy and smiling and giving this other high fives. 338 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: Nineteen ninety five was the turning point because they were 339 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: talking about selling the team and moving it, and supposedly 340 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: that late season push that we made it in the playoffs. 341 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: They say that that saved the Mariners from leaving Seattle. 342 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: By two thousand and one, the Mariners had made it 343 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: to four playoffs in just six years, but could never 344 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: make it all the way to the Promised Land. Soon 345 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: the super team was over, but a new one seemed 346 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: to be forming, led by the generationally significant acquisition from 347 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: the other side of the world. Outfielder and leadoff hitter 348 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: I Euro Suzuki. That's what this kid's apart the big 349 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: and one seven matting titles and wrong in Japan, you 350 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: can hit anywhere. He's Michael Jordan of Japan. Each Yuro 351 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 1: defined the Mariners to a whole new generation of fans. 352 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: Fans like me, there's your big ship, there's your record 353 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: for each erro. That year, spurred by an ascending each 354 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: euro Seattle completely reversed the pattern of their early years. 355 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: They just couldn't stop winning. They matched the nineteen oh 356 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: six Cups for most wins in a season with the 357 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: staggering one hundred and sixteen. How could two thousand and 358 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: one not be their year? They beat Cleveland in the 359 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: Divisional Series and made it all the way to the Alcs, 360 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: where they faced no less than the pinstripes that one 361 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: towards right field. The ball game in Hobart, Hi gasp 362 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: one like American Lake Pennant with a thirty eight time. 363 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: That was the last time the Mariners reached the playoffs. 364 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: It left a city full of devoted fans wanting more. 365 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: ESPN senior writer Mina Kimes remembers what that felt like. 366 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: It's like I was hooked, only to of course be 367 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 1: disappointed for fifteen twenty. No more than you know most 368 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: of my adult life has been nothing but pain. My 369 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: question is this, How can a team representing a city 370 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: this relevant, a city that gave the world Starbucks, the 371 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: game of pickleball, and grunge music, be allowed to languish 372 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: for this long? How is that acceptable? As I talked 373 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: to more and more people, there didn't seem to be 374 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: any anger towards the team, or ownership or anything. Many 375 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: just tuned out, stop paying attention for others. Their fandom 376 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: became more passive gradually over time, standards lowered, and no 377 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: one seemed to notice or care very much. It's all 378 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: perspective because again, we lost the clinics, so I know 379 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: what it feels like. Hey, we're so we're lucky to 380 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 1: have a team. What happened here? How did a team 381 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 1: with a record breaking season in two thousand and one 382 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 1: just fall off a cliff for twenty one years? How 383 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: did Seattle lose its identity as a baseball town and 384 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: become a football one. Greg Bishop is a senior writer 385 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: for SI and a Seattle native. He used to love 386 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: going to games as a kid, but his fandom stopped 387 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: after the Good years. Bishop has a laundry list of 388 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: what went wrong? They knew that they were getting older, 389 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: that they were high priced. I think they made some 390 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: mistakes and free agency coming out of that period, and 391 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: I think what you've seen since, you know, it makes 392 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: more sense that it was sort of falling apart of 393 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: that time after that special season. Kate Preuser is the 394 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: managing editor of Mariners website of record look Out ending 395 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: not being able to develop homegown challenge, not being willing 396 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: to wield the few data tools did have been making 397 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: old school decisions. The fetishization of the right handed power 398 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: hitter not failure was so endemic that there you cannot 399 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: point to one thing. As Mariners fans emerged from the 400 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: hibernation of the MLB lockout, they awoke to the sound 401 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: of commentators suddenly talking up the Mariners. So what changed? 402 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: Why are the baseball cognicenti slotting the Mariners into the playoffs. 403 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: There is a new general manager in the Emerald City, 404 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: as Jerry Depoto has been hired by these Seattle Mariners. 405 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, new management took over with Jerry Depoto 406 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: at the Helm. The young, charismatic former pitcher was different 407 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: and everyone could feel it, and well, I think he 408 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: changed the history of the franchise in one way or another, 409 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 1: is that they really did go into a full rebuild 410 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: when they traded Robinson Cano, more specifically, when they traded 411 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: Robinson Cano's massive, unwieldy contract. That was a good team, 412 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: it was on pace to win, you know, in the 413 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: ninety game neighborhood. But Depoto could sense that it wasn't 414 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: built to win, you know, it wasn't a sustainable entity. 415 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: Depoto burned the Mariners to the ground. Bishop tries to 416 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: imagine the GM selling this idea to the Mariners. Brass 417 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,719 Speaker 1: I think he was in some ways fortunate that they 418 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: didn't just laugh him out of the room. Depoto had 419 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: a real vision of what the Mariners could be, and 420 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: since twenty seventeen he's been crafting it. In just a 421 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: few years, Depoto took a farm system in last place 422 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: according to Baseball America and brought it to first. Kate 423 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: Presser says he's improved the organization across the board, starting 424 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: with communication and accountability. There's no like you go to 425 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: double A and you hear one thing, and then you 426 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,880 Speaker 1: go to triple A and you hear another thing. They're 427 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: looking for players who can thrive within the dimensions of 428 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: their home field, and there's a real focus on analytics, 429 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: so they can target specific prospects for specific reasons and 430 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: then to watch them kind of put the pieces together 431 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 1: to the point where now you have a Julio Rodriguez 432 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: or Jared Kellenik at these There are a lot of 433 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: the top young players in baseball, but management's changes have 434 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: been beyond just balls and strikes. They're very focused on 435 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: the holistic development of people. But it's not just like 436 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: go swing a baseball bat four thousand times and you'll 437 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: know how to hit. It is sports psychology. It's a 438 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: nap room in the clubhouse. They have an internal website 439 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: with all sorts of resources unlike anything I've seen in sports. 440 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: For an example, is a book club where players share 441 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: their own recommendations. It was such a wholesale sea change 442 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: res start, and then the people who did kind of 443 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: stick around. It was you gotta be on board with 444 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: this new way of doing things or you're out. So 445 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: they just reshape the organizational philosophy and I think did 446 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: so very very quickly, and now five years later, all 447 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: that work is starting to bear fruit. There are top 448 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: prospects like Julio Rodriguez, Logan Gilbert and Jared Kellenik on 449 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: the rise. There are trades that already looked like they're 450 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: paying off in Thai, France, JP Crawford and a u 451 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: Henio Suarez. It's smart acquisitions, but it's also the development, right, 452 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: Like it's giving these guys a chance to play every day. 453 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: So it's acquisition and development. So can the Mariners end 454 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: their playoff drought this year? Well, early in the season 455 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: it certainly seemed possible. Now well less at the time 456 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: of published their next to last in their division. But 457 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: even if they do make it this year, Kay Prewser says, 458 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: simply reaching the playoffs doesn't really mean that much if 459 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: they can't make a run at the World Series. It's 460 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: a trivia question, it's a date. It doesn't personally signify 461 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: much to me whether they make the playoffs or they don't. 462 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: I want them to make the playoffs and really feel 463 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: like they have a chance to do some damage and 464 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: make some noise in it. Bishop agrees, I think we're 465 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: a little bit card ahead of horse here, you know, 466 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: like this is not supposed to be the year that 467 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: it all comes together. It's supposed to be the year 468 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: that guys like Julio and Jared and Logan that they 469 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: get reps, that they get time, and then they learn 470 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: how to win together. The reason that people are so 471 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: excited is there's a general sense in Seattle that this 472 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: is going to be a team that's in the mix 473 00:30:53,120 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: for a championship for years to come. It's almost like 474 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,959 Speaker 1: you've been in a desert for thirty years and all 475 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: of a sudden you stumbled upon a tropical oasis of water, 476 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: you know, and maybe it's a mirage, but you also 477 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: want to believe it because you're thirsty, you know, you 478 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: want to drink that water, and you want to feel 479 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: like it used to feel. And I think that's the 480 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: other thing that plays into it in a real significant way. 481 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: The future for this looks amazing, But like I hope 482 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: people don't get gassed up if they get in for 483 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: one game and lose it, because that's not the point 484 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: of what Harry's doing. Here's Mina Kimes again. It's just 485 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: really fun and I want to buy the hype up 486 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: go into the playoffs, but my heart is too guarded, 487 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: I think for good reason. But I am probably following 488 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: this team closely more than I have in a while. 489 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: That cuts to the quick of what it means to 490 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: be a Mariners fan. To me, words like skeptical and 491 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: questioning come to mind. But I wanted to know what 492 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: word defines being a Mariners fan to everyone else incomplete 493 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: character building. I was gonna say pain, but I didn't 494 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: like that because it's really not all pain, you know, 495 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: where there's a lot of joy in the struggle. That 496 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: sentiment was pretty much shared by everyone, including Kate Presser. Yeah, 497 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the easy answer there is to 498 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: say something like long suffering or first or something negative. 499 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: But I guess maybe I would say indomitable. Bishop wanted 500 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: to say the word tortured too, But the thing about 501 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: torture is it actually makes you feel something. It's not 502 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: like we have terrible memories of the Mariners. We just 503 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: don't have any good ones, you know, for the length 504 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: of full adults life. You know, like you know, like 505 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: you can legally drink if you were born on the 506 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: day that the Mariners last play in the postseason baseball game. 507 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: The Mariners start at the season hon but they've since 508 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: trailed off. Who knows the seasons long they could make 509 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: it to the postseason still, So with that in mind, 510 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: for anyone born in two thousand and one and has 511 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: never seen a meaningful game of Mariners baseball, I hope 512 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: you can celebrate your twenty first birthday not just with 513 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: a beer, but with that sweet taste of seattle playoff 514 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: baseball as well. After a break, how pickle ball is 515 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: hitting the big time and the weird wild fight to 516 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: control it. And now we bring you the story of pickleball, 517 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: the fastest growing sport in America and the billionaires slap 518 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: fighting to control it. The thing that makes pickle ball 519 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: distinct is the thwacking sound that is made when paddle 520 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: hits perforated ball. It is a signature sound that either 521 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: sends you running far far away or makes you want 522 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: to play another hour or two. I'm John Walters. I'm 523 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: a writer and also a professor at Arizona State University. 524 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: I've just written a story on pickleball. Pickleball. It is 525 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: the fastest growing sport in America. And so in that brief, 526 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: brief time the meteoric rise of pickleball, there have been 527 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: a number of folks who've realized there's money to be 528 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: made here. How do I make that money? I was 529 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: introduced to this pickleball story. When I heard that there 530 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,919 Speaker 1: were two pickle ball Halls of Fame, and I said, 531 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: why is there even one pickleball Hall of Fame? That 532 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: seems silly. The fact that there are two instantly intrigued me, 533 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: and I had to know more. This is an excerpt 534 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,280 Speaker 1: from the story that appears in Sports Illustrated. The section 535 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: is titled Dinkers and Bangers. By the fourth Pit, a 536 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: point is distilled into dinkers and bangers. To dink is 537 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: to gently and repeatedly lob the perforated ball over the net, 538 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: almost lulling your opponent and spectators to sleep. Eventually, though, 539 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 1: someone opts to bang, to whack the ball from fewer 540 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: than five yards away, setting off an exchange of rapid 541 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: fire shots, a slap fight with paddles. Seymour rifkined is 542 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: a banger. Some people think I'm a distructor, says the 543 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: single most disruptive force in pickle ball. If there's a 544 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: single person who's the reason that I started exploring this piece, 545 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: it's Seymour Rifkined. This was someone who was inserting himself 546 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: into the structure of pickle ball uninvited. The more I 547 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: heard about him. Before I met Seymour Rifkined, I thought 548 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: he was sort of a nuisance. The very first person 549 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: I called for the story was Seymour, expecting him to 550 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: be sort of a villain, but he was anything but that. 551 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: Here's how I described Seymour Riffkin in the story. Upon 552 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: first encounter, riff may incite an eye roll or two. 553 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: A self made millionaire through his advertising firm, he has 554 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: completed an iron man, earned a black belt in taekwondo, 555 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: run the famously unforgiving Badwater Ultra Marathon, and bicycled solo 556 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: from coast to coast, all of this after his fiftieth birthday. 557 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: He is someone who finds what needs to be done, 558 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 1: finds a way to get it done, and sometimes doesn't 559 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: really care whose feathers he ruffles. In the midst of 560 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,839 Speaker 1: all of that, he's also, by the way, the son 561 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: of a Holocaust survivor, and which sort of informs his 562 00:36:52,600 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: connection to how important making every day is. So I 563 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: set up Dinkers and bangers is a way to set 564 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: up most of the feuds that appear in the story. 565 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: The metaphor would be this adnker is someone who methodically 566 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: approaches a problem and maybe is so methodical that it 567 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: seems glacial in terms of the way they get things done. 568 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: A banger is someone who just hammers through the door 569 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: and figures out a way to get it done and 570 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: smashes a few things on the way. Seymour Riskin is 571 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: your banger, and Pat Murphy and the USAP are sort 572 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: of dinkers. There are folks who would say that Seymour 573 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 1: lit a fire under the organized structure of pickleball. He 574 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: was a threat. There are two pro pickleball tours. We 575 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: have a dinker in Ken Herman and a banger in 576 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: Connor Pardo. There are a few different people who've decided 577 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: we're going to take this chance and try to start 578 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: a pro pickaball tour because no one else is. The 579 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: irony of this is that Ken Herman, who started a 580 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: thing called the Association of Pickaball Professionals, and Connor Pardot, 581 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: who started something called the Pro Pickaball Association, got into 582 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: it at almost the very same time, independent of one another. 583 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: Ken Herman is in his mid fifties. He comes up 584 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 1: through tennis. He is a good, obedient person, a very 585 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:28,919 Speaker 1: likable guy, very hospitable. Connor Pardot is a renegade. He's 586 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: in his mid to lay twenties. His family is in 587 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: real estate development in the Southwest. They are very entrepreneurial, opportunistic. 588 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: There are a couple of major differences between these pro tours. 589 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: The main one is that the PPA, run by Connor Pardot, 590 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: has been purchased with a contingency by billionaire Tom Dundon, 591 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: and so there is a billionaire backer of one tour 592 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: and there's another tour that's almost like a mom and 593 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: pop operation. When the PPA was purchased by Tom Dundon, 594 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: Tom Dundon became very machiavellian. They locked up the number 595 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 1: one player and pickle ball young man by the name 596 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: of Ben John's and they signed him to a three 597 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: year exclusivity contract where he gets a guaranteed appearance fee 598 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: for every PPA event that he does, but he is 599 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: never allowed to play on the app tour. Once they 600 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: locked up Ben John's, they went around to the other 601 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: best players in the world and said, we have Ben John's. 602 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: You have a very short time window here to sign 603 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 1: up with us with this three year exclusivity tour or 604 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: else you don't get it. We're not talking a lot 605 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: of money here. By the way, we're talking less than 606 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars a weekend. Most of these players are 607 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 1: all making their money, by the way, with sponsorships and 608 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: endorsement deals with paddle makers, so it's not really even 609 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: about that. But Tom Dunnan, a billionaire, was offering some 610 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: players a one thousand dollars a weekend appearance fee. Well, 611 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: if you've got to fly from Florida to Arizona to 612 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 1: play in a tournament, you're barely breaking even anyway. And 613 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: the way he did it, which was basically informing them 614 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,839 Speaker 1: over Christmas vacation and giving them less than a week 615 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: in some circumstances to make this decision, was seen as 616 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: sort of putting his foot on their neck. Tom Dundon 617 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: is not the only billionaire involved in this story. There's 618 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 1: a man by the name of Steve Kune, who curiously 619 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 1: enough made his first fortune as a portfolio manager at 620 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 1: Goldman Sachs in the two thousand and seven eight era. 621 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: That might be something worth looking into. His specialty was mortgages. 622 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: That's another story altogether, but Steve Kune made hundreds of 623 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: millions of dollars and he decided to eventually move to Austin, Texas, 624 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: purchase ninety acres of land and create his own Charles 625 00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: Foster Kane esque xanadue. He calls it Dreamland. Dreamland has 626 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 1: pickleball courts, a miniature golf course, it has a music venue, 627 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: and it also has homes. And what he is trying 628 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 1: to do is basically create a space that will be 629 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: the epicenter of pickle ball in the United States. He 630 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: wants top pickle ball pros to live on this land. 631 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: He will give them the houses. But what he also 632 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,919 Speaker 1: has done is create something called Major League pickle Ball, 633 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 1: which is actually less of a tour and more of 634 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,879 Speaker 1: I call it like a pickleball palooza pickle Paloza one 635 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: weekend of the year. He offers way more prize money 636 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,360 Speaker 1: than anyone else. He gets the best players in the 637 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,959 Speaker 1: world from both tours to come to his venue and play. 638 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 1: This was done for the first time in November of 639 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,879 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, and everyone thought it was at one off. 640 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: Everyone thought this is great for the sport. It's great 641 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: for players to make some extra money. And Steve Kean, 642 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,400 Speaker 1: by the way, is a very likable guy and he 643 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: put on a great show. Here's the problem. Once Tom 644 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,360 Speaker 1: Dundon bought the PPA and he's based in Dallas, Texas, 645 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 1: Steve Kune realized I need to basically go up and 646 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: kiss the ring of Tom Dundon to make sure I 647 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,720 Speaker 1: can get p PA players to compete in my next 648 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: pickle palooza. But when he went up to meet Tom 649 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: Dundon in person in January to say I would like 650 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 1: to be able to have Ben John's and the other 651 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 1: top players on your PPA tour play in my major 652 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 1: League Kickaball event, Tom Dunson's response was, they will play 653 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:50,320 Speaker 1: in major League pickleball when I own Major League Kickleball. So, 654 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: as I said to Steve Q, this reminds me like 655 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: a scene from the Godfather. You don't buy me out, 656 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: I buy you out. The tale of two pick a 657 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: ball halls of Fame, which is why I first was 658 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: so intrigued by this. Of course, you might ask, is 659 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,239 Speaker 1: there anybody famous for playing pickaball? The answer would be no, 660 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: at least right now. Seymour Rifkined looked around and said, 661 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: there's no Pickaball Hall of Fame, and nobody at USA 662 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: pick a ball. No one there seems interested in starting it. 663 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,480 Speaker 1: So I'll start one on my own. And he paired 664 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: up with Steve Keun who owns Dreamland, and said, like, 665 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: we should do this, and Steve Kean said, great idea. Eventually, 666 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 1: the United States Association of Pickaball USA Pickleball said, wait 667 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: a second, Like, we are pickle ball, how is this 668 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: guy creating the pickaball Hall of Fame? So, feeling a 669 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: little bit threatened and feeling a little bit as if 670 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 1: Seymour Rifkin had stepped on their turf, they announced the 671 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: formation of their own pickleball Hall of Fame. Eventually the 672 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: USAP back down and said, we don't want this smoke. 673 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 1: This is a year later now said this happened, and 674 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: there's still no actual brick and mortar pick a ball 675 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. There is a kicker to this story, though, 676 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: and a kicker is this Pat Murphy, who was the 677 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: head of the International Federation of pick A Ball, who 678 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: received a no confidence letter from everybody, almost everybody in 679 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 1: the International Federation of pick a Ball. He has announced 680 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: that he is creating his own separate pick a ball 681 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame in Utah. And I think that is 682 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: Pat Murphy's last shot at Seymour Rifkin. Like you think 683 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: you have a pickleball Hall of fame, We've got a 684 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 1: pickaball Hall of fame. If you're keeping score. There have 685 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: been three pickle ball Halls of Fame announced, none actually exists. 686 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:50,120 Speaker 1: Yet the barrier to entry to pick a ball is 687 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,720 Speaker 1: very low. It's more social because you're closer to people. 688 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 1: You don't have to be in as good as shape 689 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: in terms of your knees and you know your rotator 690 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,320 Speaker 1: cuff and all that sort of. If there's lower incidents 691 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 1: of injury. I do believe pickle ball will become as 692 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: popular as its biggest proponents are saying. I don't see 693 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,359 Speaker 1: why it cannot become a high school sport and even 694 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,920 Speaker 1: perhaps an NCUBA a sport. But it's definitely something you 695 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,520 Speaker 1: can teach an eight year old how to play and 696 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 1: also an eighty eight year old how to play. And 697 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,440 Speaker 1: that universality of pickle ball that's why they're pounding the 698 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:31,320 Speaker 1: tables about how popular this game can be. Rafael Nadal 699 00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,880 Speaker 1: going against Novak Djokovic, that is a level of athleticism 700 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: that pickle ball will never replace. The difference is more 701 00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 1: people can play pickleball than ever. Pretend that they're Rafael 702 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:48,840 Speaker 1: Nadal or Novak Djokovic. Pickle Ball was invented in nineteen 703 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 1: sixty five in the Pacific Northwest, specifically Bainbridge Island, right 704 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 1: off the coast of Seattle. And with all due respect 705 00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:00,640 Speaker 1: to pickle ball's origins, I find a wonderful metaphor between 706 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: the game now and where I live in the desert 707 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,600 Speaker 1: outside of Phoenix. Everybody loves living out here because the 708 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,240 Speaker 1: weather is beautiful and the desert's got its own character 709 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,320 Speaker 1: to it. But you can love it to death. You 710 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,040 Speaker 1: can build and build and build and build more homes, 711 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: and build more franchise restaurants, and eventually the deserts disappeared. 712 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,800 Speaker 1: You've loved it to death. What was it that you 713 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 1: first came out here for. What was it that made 714 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,680 Speaker 1: you fall in love with Arizona? It's the sunshine. What 715 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,920 Speaker 1: are you doing inside? It's the sawaro cacti. Why are 716 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,360 Speaker 1: you paving over paradise To the pickle ball people, I 717 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,800 Speaker 1: would say, play pickle ball. That's why you got involved 718 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,720 Speaker 1: in the first place. Stop worrying about governance, stop worrying 719 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,239 Speaker 1: about profit, and just remember what made you love pick 720 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 1: a ball initially, which is getting outside and getting off 721 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,000 Speaker 1: your butt and playing a game with people who are 722 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: your friends or will be your friends. All the other 723 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 1: stuff you've lost the forest for the trees. That's what 724 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 1: I would tell most of the folks who have gotten 725 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: high blood pressure because of wrestling for control of Pickaball. 726 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,880 Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated Weekly is a production of Sports Illustrated and iHeartRadio. 727 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,719 Speaker 1: From more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 728 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite shows. And for more 729 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,600 Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated It's best stories and podcasts, visit SI 730 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,040 Speaker 1: dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced 731 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:40,480 Speaker 1: by Cooper McKim, Jessica Yarmoski, J C. Heckman, and Isaac Lee, 732 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,840 Speaker 1: who was also our sound engineer. Our senior producer is 733 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 1: Dan Bloom. Our executive producers are Scott Brody and me 734 00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:52,280 Speaker 1: John Gonzalez. Our theme song is by Nolan Schneider. Thanks 735 00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: for listening, and if you've stuck around this long, we 736 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,279 Speaker 1: leave you with this. It's like a Beyonce Ryan for 737 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,440 Speaker 1: office in Texas in twenty forty, We're gonna have the 738 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: same conversation about the Beyonce effect