WEBVTT - Ep. 155: Guns 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.720 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.599 severely bitten in my case underwear. Listen, don't make you 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:26.920 eat podcast. You can't predict anything, Okay. Larry Keen from 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.560 National Shooting Sports Foundation, Larry, are you? Are you cool? 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:32.120 If we go through a couple of things here first, 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:38.200 they don't like, they don't necessarily involve you, but free 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:39.800 to weigh in because we gotta do a couple of 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.000 things like a lot of like us some listener email, 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.640 gotta take care of some business, yeah, house cleaning. Janice 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:50.120 had used the word, oh yeah, he had used the 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:55.600 word accidental discharge, and a lot of people, particularly service members, 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:58.840 rode in to say that you can't say that they 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.760 go by negligent disc arch. There's no there's no accidents. 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:06.600 They they there's military dudes, very emphatic on that point. 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.280 Due to your own negligence, you know, you don't get 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:14.000 to say that they just cut right to they cut 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:18.319 right the negligence. You know, like in a prior life, 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:22.640 i UH defended gun companies in product liability cases and 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.800 so that the term accidental discharge or a D was 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:30.520 used in those cases, and that was often you know, 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.880 the firearm discharged because of the negligence or the um 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:36.600 of the owner or the user, not because any design 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.120 defect or manufacturing defect. But they would typically be called 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:44.440 in the legal parliament says a d s are accidental discharge. 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:46.720 But I think the point is well made that it's 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.760 really negligence on the part of the person using the firearm. 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.160 It doesn't go off by itself. Somebody has to pull 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.280 the trigger. Several marines wrote in about it must be 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.360 something that there must be something they talk about fair 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.280 But that's the master gunny sergeants is drilled into your 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.880 head in boot camp that you are responsible for the 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:06.960 terminal resting place every round that leaves your rifle, and 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:11.600 you are a maggot. You're a maggot. I like that 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:16.040 the terminal resting place of every round that leaves your rifle. Yep, 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:21.400 terminal resting place. That sounds a cob. We have a 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.240 we have a very dark sense of humorous marines. Another thing, 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:29.200 we got a lot of people writing in about we're 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:34.520 talking about button bucks um and people asking like does 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:40.240 a button buck shed anything meaning an antler? Yeah, good question, 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:47.600 Typically not, but like we had read this thing where 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:49.200 we had read this thing where you're saying, like it 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.200 hasn't been known to happen in the state of Virginia, 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:54.120 but it's known to happen to other places. But then 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.639 we had people, including a lot of biologists and dear 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:02.160 specialists right in to say, certainly happens, it happens in Virginia, 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:05.280 and a lot of guys emailed us folk, I shouldn't 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.000 say a lot of handful of guys emailed us photos 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:13.639 of button buck sheds which looks like a little bone disc. 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.200 Some guys actually wrote in who were doing a deer 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:23.079 trapping study while listening to the podcast and started examining 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:27.240 some button bucks, and they had some findings too. But 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:31.919 it says that like early born fawns who have very 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.800 good nutrition and tend to be the larger size, button 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:39.240 bucks will actually form a little thing that they cast off. 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.280 But the antler don't want to call it an antler, 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.320 the little nubbins the disk that has cast off, it 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:49.480 doesn't seem to cast it off in a way that's 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:53.160 tied to photo period. It's like photo period is length 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:55.680 of day, and photo period drives so much, you know, 0:03:55.920 --> 0:04:00.360 drive so much of nature's day length, Like like things 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.640 are gonna happen within a window of time centered around 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.560 day length. And and and then then like micro factors will 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:10.800 come in. Micro factors can also influence timing. But there's 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.680 a lot of natural cycles that happened in accord you know, 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.920 in accordance to length of day. And he said, normal 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:20.560 bucks seem to lose their antlers due to photo period. 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.520 They think it's linked to photo period changes, but this 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.040 is just linked to whatever is going on in the 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:28.760 growth and how much gets there and when it starts 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:33.000 growing a new antler for button bucks. Um And he said, 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.440 this guy also talked about you ever hear the doppel 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:42.400 Cops syndrome. Nope, that's so dear. Biologists talk about this. 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:44.880 He says, unlike adult antlers, which are grown in shed 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:48.640 based on changing photo period, infant antlers are controlled by 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:52.320 maturity and hormonal development and not tied to photo period. 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:57.440 If any antler ever fails to shed doppel cop syndrome, 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.680 the new antler grows around own the original antler from 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.400 the outside rim of the pedicle. He says, Picture your 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.479 meat grinder plugged up with silver skin, squirting meat out 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:14.560 around the blockage. The resulting grossly misshapen antlers would be 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:18.680 obvious on any deer that failed to shed those antler buttons. 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:26.720 Look at that like it good analogy? Um. Another big 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:28.800 thing in the news, tons of people wrote in about 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:31.960 the guy a jogger in Fort Collins. Did you guys 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:39.080 hear about this? Yeah, jog for he's jogging along since 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.480 it's something coming from behind him. It's an eight five 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:46.000 pound juvenile mountain lion. It attacks him and the guy 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:52.680 chokes it out. That is a will to live, strangles 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:56.680 it walks three miles down to trailhead, drives to a hospital, 0:05:57.360 --> 0:05:59.000 you know, talking to the police about what went on. 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.040 They said, and he's got stuff that he wanted them 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:04.920 to retrieve. When I go up to inspect the site, 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.960 they go up there, dead mountain lion land there. Wow. 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:13.120 Every guy likes to think he'd do that, but most 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.279 wouldn't strangled it. I like to think he was listening 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:22.960 to stranglehold. Come on, come on, come on, come on baby? 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:29.760 Uh speaking all that a in the Great Smokey Mountains 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:34.279 National Park in Tennessee. You guys hear this story? Nope? There? Yeah, 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.080 crazy story. So you guys know what jin saying is right? 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:39.719 That's my my question as we get into the story, 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:45.200 is this now considered inedible for the bear? That's yeah, 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:46.880 there's a lot. This story is one of those stories 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:53.520 that makes its own greaty so great Smokey Mountain National Park, Tennessee. 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:55.640 Some guys are out. It seems to be I don't 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:59.080 want to like, I don't wanna, you know, I mean, 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:00.680 the guy's dead, but I don't want I don't want 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.440 to condemn the guy without knowing. But it's it's The 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.920 insinuation is that they were hunting Jin saying, digging Jin 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:11.200 saying illegally, and jing sings like a medicinal route. Daniel 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.680 Boone was in the Jin saying business and once lost 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.800 a fortune's worth of Jin saying and it was one 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:22.040 of the many things that UH seemed to routinely destroy 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.560 Daniel Boone financially. But anyways, these guys are hunting in 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.280 up national hunting Jin singer, didn't digging Jin sang in 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:31.920 the national park where it's illegal to dig sing. One 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:34.800 of the guys goes missing. There's two guys. One of 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.120 them goes missing, his buddy can't find him. They find 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:46.520 him later eating by a bear. Turns out that he 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.840 was scavenged by a bear and actually and had actually 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:54.600 died of a meth overdose pretty badly scavenged by the bear. 0:07:55.120 --> 0:08:00.480 They had to identify his body by his tattoos. He 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.280 had a school and crossbones tattoo and a C D 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:07.360 C tattoo, a Confederate battle flag tattoo that said it's 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:11.920 a redneck thing. Um. But I wonder if the bear 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.360 was shrewd that he would place the needles as a 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:18.640 cover up. I don't know. And then Mark's brought up 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:22.080 the idea, like some people brought up, was like what 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:30.440 happens to a bear who's ingested? Is the bear tripping? Um? 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:34.360 We talked about one more thing to news like absolutely, 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.480 I'm still trying to get my mind around uh a 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:43.200 method bear. Yeah. Uh on a not nearly not on 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:46.000 a not at all funny note. Um. But speaking of bears, 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:51.440 Wylming just released a really extensive report um on the 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:53.960 death of an elk hunting guide in Wyoming who was 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:58.240 killed by a grizzly bear. Uh. The guy a guide, 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:03.760 a whelming guy, was guiding a client from Florida for 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:08.800 elk and while they were butcher in um were they're 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:13.560 butchering and elk? A sal grizzly and a male cub 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:21.120 charged them, charged them, coming uphill at them, and the 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:27.600 bear grabbed the first attack the guide um the woman 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.160 guide who had bear spray on his belt. He had 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.160 a bear stray canister on his belt, and he had 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:39.920 a ten millimeter pistol on his backpack. The client had 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:43.240 a bottle of a can of pepper spray in his backpack, 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:49.800 so they can attacked. Suddenly, the guide gets in a 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:54.480 skirmish with the bear. The client tries to retrieve the 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:59.800 guides handgun but doesn't know how to operate it. The 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:05.000 air turns and bites the client on the foot. They 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.240 get into a struggle. The client tries to throw the 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:12.520 handgun to the guide, it falls short. The bear then 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:18.000 turns back and attacks the guide. This is where the 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:21.160 story is so strange? Is it? The clients of it? 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.080 He's been bitten on the foot, and the last he 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.480 sees of the guide, the guide is still on his 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:31.560 feet struggling with the bear, and the client leaves, goes 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:35.360 to the horses, rides a horse four hundred yards to 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:39.080 a hilltop to make a phone call, waits for a 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:46.360 helicopter to come, and he never goes back. They Yeah, 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.840 it's a it's a it's a. I mean, the report 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:54.319 doesn't draw you know, the reports. It's an exhaustive report, 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.679 but it doesn't say things that you imagine it might 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:03.840 say about what they means. Um. The next day they 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:08.680 found the guide and he had the guy was dead. Um. 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.480 In their analysis of footprints and what happened and empty 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:15.360 bear spray can and his body and other things, they 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.320 believed that the guy did spray the bear with pepper 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:26.240 spray it ended the attack, but then succumbed to his injuries. Wow. 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:32.880 Just a heart like kind of a heartbreaking story. Wow, Okay, 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:38.920 some some lessons to be learned. They're about we always 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.720 talk about where are you know, bear spray is located 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.760 on our body, where the pistols are on our bodies, 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.640 where you lay your rifle down, you know, as you're 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.720 doing something like that in grizzly bear country. Yeah, I 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.440 just ordered, I am ordering what do you what's the 0:11:55.440 --> 0:12:00.600 one you have? The airframe? Yeah? An airframe? Oh yeah, 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:02.520 I was just ordering one of those. We got into 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:11.000 talking about UM got into talking about revolvers versus semi autos. 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.320 What I was saying is like at work, we got 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:15.760 a lot of guys who don't have a lot of 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.719 familiarity with firearms. I feel like anyone who's watched a 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:27.160 Western I can understand the basic functioning over revolver, you 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.160 know what I mean and that. But this is before 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:32.880 I even read the report. But I was like just 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.560 articulating this to John Edwards over at his gun shop, 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.480 over at Schnaze. It was like my sort of I'm like, 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:41.880 I just feel like for us when we're out working 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:44.720 um up in Alaska, it's just like a thing that 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.480 it's just easy to explain to people who don't no, 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:55.240 who don't shoot, Um, that's what. That's what. That's what 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.880 I'm fixing to get. No, Larry, Sorry, no need to apologize. 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.800 N SSF. Uh Like when someone like you're at a party, 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:05.920 You're at a cocktail party and someone says, what's that? 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.120 What's the NSSF. What do you tell them? We are 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.199 the firearms industry's trade association. And then the next question 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:13.800 is what's the difference between you and the n A 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.280 and the elevator speeches. The dividing line is to checkout 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:21.880 counter as the trade association. We're focused on the bar 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:26.040 stock being delivered to the factory to make the firearm 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.400 to the south to the sale to the consumer at retail. 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.880 And that's our that's what we're focused on. That's that's 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:38.840 our core mission to help the industry grow and prosper UH. 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.440 And the dividing line between US and n A is 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:47.200 the is the is the checkout counter. They represent gun owners, 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.760 consumers from the industry's point of view, and users, and 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:56.360 we represent the industry. Uh do industry people are members 0:13:56.360 --> 0:14:00.680 of the NSSF. The companies are members um SO. In 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.679 our membership be about I think the numbers about ten 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.880 thousand members. Now, you know, the ebbs and flows goes 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:08.600 up after a lot of people joining when they come 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:17.960 to shot show. Um SO, our members are manufacturers, distributors, retailers, firearms, ammunition, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.560 scopes and basically anything you can put in on around 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.840 or through a gun for hunting, shooting, increasingly for you know, 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.840 personal protection, self defense, big part of the market. Um. 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.520 Big companies, the biggest names you know that everybody knows 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:39.120 household names to smaller companies, smaller manufacturers that you know 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:42.640 most people have never heard of. You guys, they're the 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.560 ten by ten booths at the shot show. You see 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.240 the small little booths, but you know, all the big 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.840 guys started out as small companies at some point. I 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.960 think a lot of people's familiarity comes from Shot Show. Yeah, 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.440 I mean it's it's a huge event. As you know, 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:02.720 as we were talking before, UM exhibitors thirteen miles of 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:07.480 exhibit space, and if you went to every single booth 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:09.800 at the show, you could spend twenty two seconds at 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:13.320 each one. So it's it's a massive Whatever people go 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.280 for the first time they are their reaction is always 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.920 the same. They're blown away, they're shocked, they cannot believe 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:24.640 the breath and scope and size of the Shot show. Yeah, 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.480 it's big. You feel like you can never there's so much. 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.280 You feel like you never get like can look at 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:34.200 something because there's so much. You know, you always want 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.680 you always to force yourself to focus for a second, 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:38.440 you do. Yeah, I mean we tell people that you 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.280 have to have a plan, and we have like apps 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:46.360 for people for the attendees were you know, dealers, buyers, 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.680 plan your show, plan who you want to see, you 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:54.000 can schedule it. You know. The app, uh, you know, 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.160 it's a digital map. It will tell you how to 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:57.960 get from point A to point B. You just plug 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:01.400 in the booth in the booth number and it'll tell 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.440 you how to get there. Um. And you got to 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.680 plan your time otherwise you just you'll get lost, you know. 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.280 And all of the stuff you see uh on all 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.800 of the various booths. But we try to segment the show. Um. 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.680 You know, we have the law enforcement tactical section, We've 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.800 got firearms and ammunition. We've got other areas where you know, 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.400 we have a new Products center, um, so if you're 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.200 looking for new products, that's where you would go. And 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.600 that's a big popular place. And then we have you know, 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.080 areas where you know it's hunting, clothing and things like that. 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.240 And so we try to segment the show so you 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.640 can be in a particular area and you know, Okay, 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.880 i'm gonna if you're a buyer, I'm gonna talk to 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:41.840 these firearms guys, then i'm gonna go over here, I'm 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.560 gonna talk to these clothing guys that um, you know, 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:49.320 in place orders so nothing that there's no sales, direct 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.360 sales that take place. No certainly no cash hellth that's 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.840 not allowed. So it's booking orders um and people looking 0:16:55.880 --> 0:17:00.320 at um, you know, at products. It's it's really a 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.720 primary primarily now the show is really a new product 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:08.280 introduction and marketing show. Um. It's the largest gathering of 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.320 outdoor media in the world. Uh it's if you took 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.520 out the knives, it would be the largest knife show 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.280 in the world, if you took out if you took out. 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:20.320 The thing that pulls my mind walking around there is 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:26.959 uh all the government agencies for foreign governments. We hear 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.840 people talking every language on the planet. I think it's 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:35.679 something like a hundred countries. Um. We've got uh foreign military, 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:40.440 foreign law enforcement, foreign exhibitors, foreign attendees from all over 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:45.080 the place. So we've even had people come from Pakistan. Um, 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.520 we've you know, people from all over Europe, you know 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:54.679 New Zealand, Uh, Australia, et cetera. Um, we've got lots 0:17:54.680 --> 0:18:00.240 of US military buyers there from all branches and so 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.080 calm folks. They're they're the ones that can't have their 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.960 pictures taken. Funny story about that, but a couple of 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:11.480 years ago, UH Governor Romney came to see the show 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.320 before or right around the time. He just a little 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.920 bit before he announced he was running, and he wanted 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:18.840 to come to see the show. And we took him around, 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:22.359 walked him around the floor for a while. Uh and 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.679 and there were some guys and military guys. They were 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.280 in uniform. You know, it's like, hey, let's get a 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.040 picture with you and govern to romy No, no, no, no, 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:35.959 we can't, we can't. Okay, you're not here. This How 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:37.920 much is the I don't want to ballut too much 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.439 on Shot show, but how much a Shot show? How 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.600 much was it impacted by the War on Terror? Yeah, 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.680 because because we've been like engaged and you know, we've 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:54.840 been engaged in multiple theaters right for a long time. Yeah. Um, 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.040 I wouldn't say in seventeen years. You know, the War 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:03.960 on Terror impacted the market and that impact of the show. 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.679 So it wasn't like a direct impact, but it just 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.840 seems like it's been such a like just a bewildering 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:15.400 amount of new technologies getting driven by you know, driven 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.280 by the you know the fact that I mean, you know, 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.159 most Americans kind of lose sight of the fact the 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.720 fact that we've been at war for so long. Yeah. 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.120 The fastest growing part of the show is the taxical 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:30.600 law enforcement show enforcement. Yeah, so that's that's by far 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:32.400 the fastest growing part of the show. And I think 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.320 that's a reflection of the changing market. And I think 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:40.040 that that has driven in part due to um people 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:45.720 that like marked that served when overseas, came back, left 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.720 the military and you know, if they weren't before, they 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:52.679 you know, they like to go target shooting, hunting, and 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.480 so but I think that's helps explain the growth of 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:59.639 the modern sporting rifle popularity. A lot of the people. 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.680 Our survey show that, uh, about half of the people 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:06.400 that purchase them our current form and military law enforcement. 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.080 And it's actually we have a being on our website 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:12.480 about the history of the rifle in America, and that 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:17.800 that rifle would become popular was really predictable because it's 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.480 that's always happened through the history of United States. After 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.560 people serve, they come back, they take up target shooting. 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.719 They're familiar with that platform. Uh, it's comfortable, they like it. 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.800 And so if you look at the growth in the market, 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:35.800 you know, after every conflict, you'll see, you know, certain 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:39.000 types of rifles become very popular. People forget that all 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:45.320 rifles were originally military rights. It is it's cycling. So 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.200 if you look back through the history of wars, after 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.320 you come back from World War One, everyone was using 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:52.399 bolt action rifles. Well that's the rifle that they were 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:54.000 familiar with, and that's with them they wanted to take 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.840 back into the woods with them. After World War Two, 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:00.439 they were using repeating rifles that were using semi automatic rifles, 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:02.399 and that's what they want to take back in with them. 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:04.720 And after Korea and after Vietnam, you started to see 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.080 the rise in the use of scopes, which before then 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.200 was kind of antathetical. You know, people at the time, 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.040 if you can use the scope, you're gonna be poaching. 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:13.879 So as you should kind of see these adoptions of 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.520 these technologies as they kind of go back and forth. 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:19.160 And it used to be that, you know, for a while, 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:23.159 civilian technology would kind of drive military technology when it 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:25.359 comes to small arms, and then it was then it 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.320 was the push that develop of new firearms for the 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.480 military would push back out into the civilian market. We've 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:33.280 kind of seen that kind of go back around again. 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:35.479 The military is looking at a lot more commercial off 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:38.320 the shelf items. Uh, so you're seeing the kind of 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:41.680 that that cyclic nature of that happening over and over. Yeah, 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:44.960 it's not a one way street, um, but to your 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:49.320 point males are both action rifled. I mean that is 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.439 now considered the ubiquitous deer hunting rifle, right, Like no 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:56.359 Control group say well that's that's a weapon of war, right, 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:00.280 But you know it was at one point that I mean, 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:04.119 it can't be used for for hunting another target, shooting, etcetera. 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:08.520 So you know, the military does buy commercial products, and 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.360 you know, so it goes, it goes both ways. I mean, 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.640 consumers see what the military law enforcement used and they think, 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:17.720 well it's good enough for them. That's what I want, 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:19.800 And so that that ries a lot what happens in 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:23.920 the commercial market. What I want to do, I want 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:25.560 to return to this for sure. What all I do 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:29.040 is I want to do kind of um like cover 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:30.440 a bunch of brown to do a walk. You want 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:33.200 a bunch of issues that I think, like particularly things 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:38.800 that I know that our audience asked about around firearms issues, 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:43.640 legislation issues, um and try to like do quick snapshots 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.439 and stuff. And one thing because being here in d 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:49.520 C and you guys have some familiarity in the space. 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:51.520 One thing. I don't want to dwell on it too long, 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:57.560 but we've talked a lot about on this show. We've 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.639 covered a lot about Land and Water Conservation Fund, and 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:02.560 it's kind of this story that doesn't really go away 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:05.760 right now. You guys are involved, you guys are in 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:10.240 some way. Yeah, like what is it? What's yours? Like, 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:14.240 what's your organization's opinion on it? Well, we think, uh, 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:17.280 you know, one of the challenges for the health of 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:19.320 the industry is, you know, we need hunters to have 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:23.159 access and opportunity, and that takes many forms right time, 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:26.879 but also access to land, particularly out west, there's a 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:30.040 lot of public land, and so opening up access to 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:36.920 public lands for hunting, target shooting, fishing, et cetera. Is important. So, uh, 0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:40.000 Landing Water Conservation Fund, we think it's important. We support 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:44.520 the Land the Public Lands package that UM is in 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:46.879 the Senate currently. We wished it had passed at the 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:50.400 end of last year, but we're, you know, remain hopeful 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:53.399 that we finally get it done. But so we support 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:57.440 that seventy four UM filed cloaks are on it to 0:23:57.480 --> 0:24:00.280 come up for a vote any day, you know, real soon, 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:03.119 and we think it passes overwhelmingly. Yeah, it seems to 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:04.520 have a lot of it seems to have a lot 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:08.199 of bipartisan support. It might even pass unanimous consent. Right, 0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:13.880 So there was the vote to UM yesterday afternoon, was like, 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:18.960 so it'll pass and then we'll see what happens in 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:23.639 the House. So hopefully it passes as well. But we 0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:26.000 think it's important UM. We support it. We have for 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:30.600 quite a while, particularly within uh L WCF. Then making 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:35.040 public lands provision something we think it's very important. So 0:24:35.760 --> 0:24:39.600 to to allow to have a funding source to purchase 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:44.080 UM rights of way and Eastman's, etcetera, UM private land 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:46.840 to get access to landlocked federal land to open it 0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:51.800 up for more access for hunting and and shooting. So 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:54.720 what's your what's your litmus like as an organization? What 0:24:54.840 --> 0:25:01.600 is the n SSF litmus on how to fall on issues? 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:04.600 So like it takes something like the land of water 0:25:04.600 --> 0:25:07.480 conservation flaw and so your perspective on it is UM 0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:10.960 access is good for hunters. Hunters are good for the industry. 0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:13.480 I mean is that good for conservation? Right? So I 0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:16.840 mean so we go back. It all starts from, you know, 0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:22.439 sort of the core function of ansef our mission is 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:26.320 to promote, protect and preserve hunting and the shooting sports. 0:25:26.680 --> 0:25:30.040 That's right, And from the perspective of the industry as 0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:33.719 the industry's trade association. So that's how we you know, 0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:36.879 that's that's our sort of prism through which we view things, 0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:40.920 and so access and there's no question access and opportunity 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:45.040 are are critical to promoting, protecting and preserving hunting and 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:47.600 the shooting sports. As we all know, hunting has been 0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:50.639 on a slow decline for a number of years, and 0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:54.439 so we have a lot of programs and initiatives to 0:25:54.520 --> 0:25:58.280 try to address that and bend that curve. Um like 0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:02.640 the one we just started plus one. But in terms 0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:06.480 of looking at legislation, the devil is always in the details. 0:26:06.520 --> 0:26:09.840 But conceptually, you know, we want to see more public 0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:12.800 land opened up for hunting and the shooting sports. It's 0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:16.720 a big issue out west. Um, so you know, we 0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:19.520 try to balance aquities. We also got to be really 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:21.399 you know, sort of figure out what what is doable, 0:26:21.440 --> 0:26:26.320 what is achievable legislatively. Um, you know, you can you know, 0:26:26.359 --> 0:26:28.280 I always had the pony on my Christmas list, but 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:30.320 I didn't always get the pony. In fact, I never 0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:32.399 got the pony. So you bring up the West, But 0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:34.119 I think it's important people to realize. I don't think 0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:36.480 there's a I think I heard. I'm pretty sure this 0:26:36.560 --> 0:26:39.720 is right. There's not a county in the United States 0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:47.119 that hasn't had LWCF projects on it. You know, I 0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:51.359 don't think that maybe I don't know municipal swimming pools, 0:26:51.400 --> 0:26:55.000 like like all kinds of all kinds of outdoor access programs. 0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:59.280 So there's the thing, uh people and robertson fun. It 0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:01.000 feels like this is been like the year of the 0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:04.879 Pittman Roberts and Fund where I feel growing up, you know, 0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:07.920 and like without realizing you're doing anyone that buys guns 0:27:07.960 --> 0:27:11.640 or ammunition certain archery pointment, like you're like paying into 0:27:11.640 --> 0:27:13.879 the fund without knowing it, because when you get your receipt, 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:16.480 it doesn't say there's it doesn't say that there's a 0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:19.600 thirteen or fourteen percent tax built into it. So you 0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:23.520 can kind of live your life as a shooter and 0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:25.160 and not realize you're doing it. But I don't know why. 0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:27.040 I just feel like there's some like tipping point where 0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:30.280 there's awareness and it's probably it's probably a smart move. 0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:33.000 It just like it seems to be in my world. 0:27:33.560 --> 0:27:37.119 There seems to be a lot more awareness now and 0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:41.320 a lot more reporting on the existence of the fund. 0:27:41.520 --> 0:27:45.280 Well that's I'm glad to hear you think that's the case. 0:27:45.760 --> 0:27:49.440 You know, the industry is try to promote that message. 0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:52.119 We've worked with Fish and Wildlife Service. In fact, a 0:27:52.160 --> 0:27:56.080 couple of years ago, probably more than a couple of now, uh, 0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:59.880 it was a seventy fifth anniversary uh Pittman Robers and 0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:04.679 exercise tax being put in place to try to you know, 0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:08.480 so there was efforts to put information or flyers and 0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:12.120 stickers and on the boxes and then some people purchased 0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:15.720 that they understood I knew that. Um so I think 0:28:15.760 --> 0:28:19.440 that's hopefully bearing some fruit trying to push that message. 0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:23.639 The taxes, you know, it's ten percent on handguns, eleven 0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:27.000 percent on long guns and ammunition, and it's been in 0:28:27.080 --> 0:28:29.840 place since nineteen. Well, the tax actually not one of them. 0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:31.840 It's not there's not one that's thirteen. There's not a 0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:34.760 third percent part not on guns and ammunition. I mean, 0:28:35.000 --> 0:28:38.400 there's thus all exercise tax on a fishing tackle, but 0:28:38.520 --> 0:28:41.760 that goes into a different fund are archery. Archery may 0:28:41.760 --> 0:28:46.960 be higher, I'm not sure, but so that the tax 0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:53.160 actually existed, what happened was the industry asked to have 0:28:53.360 --> 0:28:57.440 the you know, have the funds UM be used for 0:28:57.480 --> 0:29:01.040 conservation because at the time, if you look at the history, 0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:04.760 wildlife was not doing well in the United States. So 0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:09.560 the depths of the SPA, so you know, the industry 0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:13.680 helped fund to loophold and others. UM. You know, the 0:29:13.720 --> 0:29:16.840 creation of wildlife management is a science and that was 0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:20.520 funded by the industry. UH. And in attacks, you know, 0:29:20.600 --> 0:29:24.360 we said, used this tax dollars for this purpose. And 0:29:24.400 --> 0:29:29.160 I think it's now over twelve billion dollars or thereabouts UM. 0:29:30.440 --> 0:29:33.040 And it's the price one of the primary sources of 0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:35.520 conservation funding in the United States, as you know, it's 0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:40.640 collected by Treasury, UH, distributed given to the official wildlife 0:29:40.640 --> 0:29:43.040 goes into the trust fund, which we aren't actually isn't 0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:46.680 technically a trust fund, I guess on the sequestration battle, 0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:48.360 but from a couple of years ago. But then that 0:29:48.560 --> 0:29:50.680 is distributed back out to the states on the formula 0:29:50.800 --> 0:29:55.680 land mass hunting sales. How is the tax like what 0:29:55.880 --> 0:29:57.840 actually is taxed along the ware at what point like 0:29:57.880 --> 0:30:00.600 at the end of the year. You know, it's it 0:30:00.720 --> 0:30:02.800 used to be that the manufacturer had to pay the 0:30:02.880 --> 0:30:05.920 tax twice a month and three times in September for 0:30:06.080 --> 0:30:09.360 firearms and ammunition. When other when the tax was supplied 0:30:09.360 --> 0:30:12.840 to other goods like archery and such, they got to 0:30:12.880 --> 0:30:15.040 pay quarterly. So a number of years ago actually we 0:30:15.520 --> 0:30:19.360 UM got legislation passed to change the payment scheduled to 0:30:19.680 --> 0:30:24.920 quarterly like everybody else. Um uh and so, but it's 0:30:24.960 --> 0:30:28.959 paid basically with the first shipment by the manufacturer. UM 0:30:29.160 --> 0:30:33.880 is when the taxes is owed, and so the manufacturer's 0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:38.200 gotta you know, submit the tax receipts to Treasury to 0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:40.280 the Tax and Trade or t t B. They pay 0:30:40.360 --> 0:30:45.040 based off of sales or what they made sales. So UM. 0:30:45.080 --> 0:30:47.680 I mean, it's a little complicated, but some sales are 0:30:47.680 --> 0:30:51.560 examples some uh from the tax and um and it 0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:54.640 gets very you know, like any text tax lug. It's complicated, 0:30:54.680 --> 0:30:58.120 but basically it's a commercial sale of firems and ammuation products. 0:30:58.120 --> 0:31:01.200 At the manufactural level is when the taxes. Sales to 0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:06.680 the uniform branches are not Those sales are not taxable. UM. 0:31:06.920 --> 0:31:10.760 Sales to state law enforcement is not tax but but oddly, 0:31:10.960 --> 0:31:14.920 sales to federal law enforcement is taxable, which I don't know, 0:31:15.600 --> 0:31:17.680 I don't know how that came to be, but that's 0:31:17.720 --> 0:31:21.400 the way it is. So but it's basically, you know, 0:31:21.840 --> 0:31:27.840 and as you say, you know, the taxes baked into 0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:32.240 the cost of the goods, just like all other costs insurance, electricity, labor. 0:31:33.120 --> 0:31:35.320 You know, it's it's reflected in the price of the goods. 0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:36.960 But at the end of the day that you know 0:31:37.040 --> 0:31:41.120 that the consumer of the hunter, of the shooters paying 0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:45.000 the tax. Uh. In an indirect fashion, we like to, 0:31:46.240 --> 0:31:49.360 you know, tell hunters that you're you're funding conservation, right 0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:53.920 so they understand their Connecticut. But to your point, UH, 0:31:54.120 --> 0:31:58.360 target shooters, people who never go afield um are are 0:31:58.400 --> 0:32:01.320 actually paying the lions share of the acts because you guys, 0:32:01.320 --> 0:32:06.200 you guys did that study. People in the initially think 0:32:06.240 --> 0:32:10.160 it's higher. Intuitally you can see it, but I would 0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:11.880 never have guessed that that would be the break. So 0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:14.160 think about it this way, Steve. This past hunting season, 0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:17.200 I went out and I killed two deer this year. 0:32:17.560 --> 0:32:19.720 So I killed one with my bow and I killed 0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:22.760 one with my rifle. I probably used maybe three, let's 0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:25.400 say five rounds to check the zero on my rifle, 0:32:25.720 --> 0:32:27.680 and I put one round through the deer I killed. 0:32:27.960 --> 0:32:30.520 So that's what six rounds max that I used through 0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:33.360 my rifle hunt in your hunt with Granddaddy's rifew hunting 0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:38.400 with my with my old Resent seven thirty odd six. UM. 0:32:38.440 --> 0:32:40.040 But when I go to the range on the weekend 0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:43.640 and fire my pistols or fire my R fifteen, I'm 0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:46.360 starting at a minimum of a hundred rounds. I'm buying 0:32:46.360 --> 0:32:48.320 a hunt rounds right across the counter, and I'm going 0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:50.880 into the range, And that's what I'm gonna that's the 0:32:50.880 --> 0:32:53.560 minimum start of what I'm gonna play with that day. 0:32:53.680 --> 0:32:56.520 So you think you figure I used six rounds to 0:32:56.640 --> 0:33:00.360 hunt deer this year, I'll use that. Say you go 0:33:00.400 --> 0:33:02.520 to the range once a month, I'm going to use 0:33:02.520 --> 0:33:05.600 a minimum of twelve rounds through each of my firearms. 0:33:06.320 --> 0:33:09.760 So that's the money that's going towards conservation. Yeah. We 0:33:09.800 --> 0:33:11.760 talked about it recently because hunters I was saying, like 0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:14.600 there's awareness about Pittman robertson right, and I think and 0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:18.640 it was funny because the hunters like to vocalize about it. 0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:23.040 We like to we like to virtue signal around rovers 0:33:23.160 --> 0:33:27.719 when they're looking at that numbers of that money is, yes, 0:33:27.800 --> 0:33:30.880 seventy eight percent of that money is tied to UM. Yeah, 0:33:30.960 --> 0:33:35.960 recreational shooting, and the license sells, you know, helps fund conservation. 0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:40.360 That hunters are the original green movement. Hunters are the 0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:45.240 original conservationist, which is a fact that has become lost 0:33:45.320 --> 0:33:47.160 on a lot of people now because I think that 0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:49.640 because some of the systems, the systems have been in 0:33:49.680 --> 0:33:52.600 place for the systems have been in place for so 0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:56.760 long that people lose the people lose sight of it. Um. 0:33:57.000 --> 0:33:59.320 I said, when I had no awareness when I was 0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:01.320 a kid, I had no wareness of how like you, 0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:07.200 how your state Fishing Game Agency, which does all the 0:34:07.240 --> 0:34:10.000 work they do from disease research to law enforcement, had 0:34:10.040 --> 0:34:12.200 no idea of where that money came from. Right. You 0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:14.960 kind of live like a pretty nice life in this country, 0:34:15.239 --> 0:34:19.800 just hunting, fishing away, Yeah, with no idea like the machinations, 0:34:19.960 --> 0:34:24.960 right that it goes on behind the scenes. Um, it's uh, 0:34:25.280 --> 0:34:27.200 we're very proud of it. I mean, you know, it's 0:34:27.320 --> 0:34:30.120 because think about it, that's ten eleven percent at the 0:34:30.120 --> 0:34:35.560 bottom line at the industry willingly pays that tax, and 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:39.680 and look the success we've had since the tax you know, 0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:42.640 was put to that purpose. I mean, the wildlife are 0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:45.400 doing pretty darn darn well in this country. I mean 0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:49.200 more whitetail, dere more turkey. You know, it's it's great success, 0:34:49.280 --> 0:34:52.400 the bald eagles off the endangered species list, all of 0:34:52.520 --> 0:34:56.239 us being you know, funded by UM the x X tax. 0:34:56.640 --> 0:34:58.080 I think you pointed out well when you wrote that 0:34:58.080 --> 0:35:00.239 piece for Outside magazine a couple of months ago where 0:35:00.239 --> 0:35:02.680 you were talking about, hey, bird watchers, you have birds 0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:05.319 to look at because of hunters. So I mean, this 0:35:05.400 --> 0:35:07.520 is and to what was the point of where we're 0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:09.200 talking about. We've got a lot of people that are 0:35:09.200 --> 0:35:11.040 going to gun ranges tell that will never step foot 0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:13.200 in the woods, and they're the ones that are helping 0:35:13.200 --> 0:35:16.560 fundness that. That's that that that's a nice segue. We 0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:21.399 were really cherish a good segue around here into uh, 0:35:21.400 --> 0:35:24.560 I want you guys explain the target practice and marksmanship 0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:29.319 training support act UM because I was gonna go there 0:35:29.320 --> 0:35:31.200 and you want to have questions, but I have questions 0:35:31.200 --> 0:35:34.440 about it. I call it pivot. You called oh yeah, 0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:38.239 I think that that's a pivot. So yeah, that's good. Yeah, 0:35:38.239 --> 0:35:40.520 because you imagine a pivot having like a point of pivot. 0:35:40.719 --> 0:35:44.960 So this is I think this is hard for some 0:35:44.960 --> 0:35:49.000 people to visualize that. So so this Pittman Robertson fund 0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:52.560 takes kind of like where the where when it comes 0:35:52.560 --> 0:35:55.840 to exercise the fund. It's like matching grants where states 0:35:55.840 --> 0:36:00.240 are doing projects and they get funding that they apply 0:36:00.400 --> 0:36:03.560 for funding from the fund to to do certain projects, 0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:06.480 and a lot of the projects are centered around wildlife restoration. 0:36:08.239 --> 0:36:11.800 There's a movement though, catching like interrupt me when I'm wrong, okay, 0:36:11.880 --> 0:36:17.600 And then there's a push though that states should have 0:36:17.719 --> 0:36:26.239 more flexibility to use Pittman Robertson money to create shooting ranges. Right, 0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:31.040 So the law now allows the states to use the 0:36:31.040 --> 0:36:34.440 money for wildlife conservation restoration. That's where the bulk of 0:36:34.440 --> 0:36:37.160 the money goes and should go. They can also use 0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:41.800 some of the Pittman Robertson for hunter education, obviously very important. 0:36:42.680 --> 0:36:46.160 They do that now and they can already now also 0:36:46.400 --> 0:36:49.960 use the some of the funds under certain conditions in 0:36:50.000 --> 0:36:53.439 the law to build or enhance public shooting ranges. So 0:36:53.600 --> 0:36:58.080 a number of years ago we have had Cobbly always 0:36:58.080 --> 0:37:00.840 have conversations with the state fishing game agencies. Right, they 0:37:00.880 --> 0:37:07.000 have an organization called uh UH Association Fish and Wildlife Agencies, 0:37:07.480 --> 0:37:10.400 very creative things. So they have meetings and we go 0:37:10.480 --> 0:37:14.120 to the meetings and because it was obviously uh things 0:37:14.120 --> 0:37:17.560 we need to dialogue. And one of the discussions was 0:37:18.120 --> 0:37:21.319 and I remember being at the meeting because I said, look, 0:37:21.440 --> 0:37:24.080 you know, we from the industry point of view, think 0:37:24.120 --> 0:37:27.120 you guys are not spending enough money building public shooting 0:37:27.160 --> 0:37:31.480 ranges and we need that. That's where the growth is 0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:37.759 taking place is in uh, the shooting sports. Uh. And 0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:39.840 we all know about the struggles for hunting, but you 0:37:39.840 --> 0:37:42.080 know it's just to your the point we were just 0:37:42.120 --> 0:37:45.319 talking about. The shooters that never go afield are the 0:37:45.320 --> 0:37:47.440 ones that are PAYINGLED you know, the excise tax, right, 0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:49.720 that's where the bulk of the money is coming from 0:37:49.800 --> 0:37:53.440 the firearms ammunition that are being used for target shooting. 0:37:54.160 --> 0:37:56.480 So we think, you guys, should you know, spend more 0:37:56.520 --> 0:37:58.160 money on us. This is what we want to see 0:37:58.280 --> 0:38:02.120 and we're paying the tacks And they say, well, the 0:38:02.200 --> 0:38:04.680 formulas very restrictive and the loss and that's one of 0:38:04.719 --> 0:38:07.319 the reasons why they just don't really do it. And 0:38:07.360 --> 0:38:09.520 so we said, what what do you need? What would 0:38:09.520 --> 0:38:13.080 you want? And that became the what we call the 0:38:13.160 --> 0:38:15.960 Range Bill because the name is too long to the 0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:20.279 target practice, marksmanship training and Support Act that it's sponsored 0:38:20.280 --> 0:38:24.160 by Senator Capital in the Senate called the Range Bill. 0:38:24.160 --> 0:38:27.040 It's easier and so all the bill will do is 0:38:27.120 --> 0:38:31.080 change that formula in the Pittman Robertson Act to allow 0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:35.000 UM more flexibility in the States to use their Pittman 0:38:35.120 --> 0:38:38.360 Robertson allocation. So there's two parts to it. There's the 0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:40.880 match part and then there's the time frame. So it 0:38:41.239 --> 0:38:44.240 extends the time period and it reduces help the match 0:38:44.600 --> 0:38:47.680 so UM so that the states have to put up 0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:50.560 less money from their allocation and they have more time 0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:53.960 to get the project done. It has no impact on 0:38:54.320 --> 0:38:57.279 the deficit. It doesn't change the XCES tax up or down. 0:38:57.280 --> 0:39:00.440 It just gives them a little bit more flexibility. So 0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:04.880 it's broadly supported. It is passed the House and the 0:39:04.960 --> 0:39:09.520 Senate in different packages as stand alone's. We have yet 0:39:09.560 --> 0:39:11.920 to get it across the finish line. But hopus because 0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:17.600 why because I want to touch more. But it just 0:39:17.600 --> 0:39:19.880 gets into it gets into a little bit of politics. 0:39:21.000 --> 0:39:23.440 It's what it gets packaged. So a lot of times 0:39:24.000 --> 0:39:27.759 because it's not controversial at all as broad bipartisan support. Well, 0:39:27.800 --> 0:39:29.760 I want to point out a controversy. It could pass 0:39:29.760 --> 0:39:32.279 when unanimous can sent us a standalone right like, which 0:39:32.280 --> 0:39:34.640 is what we tried to do. It gets bundled the 0:39:34.719 --> 0:39:37.520 package with other provisions that are that where there is 0:39:37.600 --> 0:39:42.040 disagreement or it's not as bipartisan, and so they try 0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:45.080 to use the bill as a sweetener um to try 0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:47.640 to bring people along on other on other titles in 0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:51.800 the bill. And then that big sportsman's package keeps getting 0:39:51.840 --> 0:39:55.120 bogged down and not getting across the finish line. Um. 0:39:55.160 --> 0:39:58.279 Some of it is pure politics because the you know, 0:39:58.320 --> 0:40:01.360 the sponsor is it is up for reelection and the 0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:03.239 other side doesn't want to give him a win before 0:40:03.400 --> 0:40:06.480 you know, for the election. That's just you know the 0:40:06.560 --> 0:40:09.520 nature of politics, right, I mean, the politics drives policy, 0:40:09.560 --> 0:40:12.960 as they say here in Washington. So, um, so we've 0:40:12.960 --> 0:40:15.480 tried to you know, we've we've had it in the 0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:17.840 n d A A, which is the Defense author you 0:40:17.880 --> 0:40:21.640 know Defense Appropriation Bill with funds d O D. We 0:40:21.680 --> 0:40:24.279 had it in there on one side. It fell out 0:40:24.320 --> 0:40:27.840 in conference because for a number of reasons, basically because 0:40:28.200 --> 0:40:31.440 McCain wasn't around, uh just right before he died, and 0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:34.680 so they kept the bill clean. Nothing extraneous was allowed 0:40:34.719 --> 0:40:37.759 to be kept in so it fell out there. We 0:40:37.800 --> 0:40:40.000 thought we had it done then, so it's we've been 0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:44.280 working on it. I don't know, like six maybe eight years. Yeah, 0:40:44.400 --> 0:40:47.680 but it takes that long. I was watching an interview 0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:51.040 with you and you were talking um. You were talking 0:40:51.040 --> 0:40:55.200 about just the slow, arguous process of legislation. Yeah, it doesn't. 0:40:55.320 --> 0:41:00.200 You were managing expectations, yes, like for the Airing Protection Act. Yeah, 0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:02.080 that's what that's what I want to do next pivot. 0:41:02.080 --> 0:41:03.319 That would have been a great pivot, but I got 0:41:03.320 --> 0:41:05.520 the back up. I could see a smart I could 0:41:05.560 --> 0:41:10.760 see a smart, well meaning person looking at the range 0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:15.319 bill and being nervous or leery or suspicious of the 0:41:15.320 --> 0:41:18.160 fact that you'd be pulling some of the money away 0:41:18.320 --> 0:41:20.920 from wildlife work. But I think what I would tell 0:41:20.960 --> 0:41:24.680 him in that conversation is that would tell him that, Yeah, 0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:28.880 the word investment gets thrown around a lot right in politics, 0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:31.200 like everything's an investment, but you can kind of see 0:41:31.200 --> 0:41:33.320 it as being a I think you can make a 0:41:33.440 --> 0:41:37.720 legitimate case that it is like an investment. By creating 0:41:37.719 --> 0:41:43.920 more opportunities for shooters exactly, you're probably gonna generate You're 0:41:43.920 --> 0:41:45.920 gonna generate a lot, You're probably gonna generate a larger 0:41:46.000 --> 0:41:48.719 fund and maybe and then with the goal being the 0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:50.800 end of the day, actually putting more money towards wildlof 0:41:51.320 --> 0:41:54.799 That's exactly here's the talking points that many many, many 0:41:54.840 --> 0:41:59.200 meetings on the hill, rising tide floats, all boats, shooters 0:41:59.200 --> 0:42:02.880 who are paying for conservation deserve a return on their investment. 0:42:03.120 --> 0:42:07.400 And the more public opportunities for shooting, the more consumption 0:42:07.440 --> 0:42:09.960 of ammunition, the more purchase of farms, the more funding 0:42:09.960 --> 0:42:15.279 for wildlife conservation. Pittman Robertson exercise tax dollars will increase now. 0:42:15.320 --> 0:42:17.720 And the bill does not require the states to do anything, 0:42:17.719 --> 0:42:20.160 It just gives them flexibility they want to do. So 0:42:20.320 --> 0:42:22.520 then if we get this past and then they don't, 0:42:22.520 --> 0:42:26.160 we'll be back saying now, look, you said this is 0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:28.440 what you needed, We got it for you. Now please 0:42:28.480 --> 0:42:31.680 go build some more ranges or just improve the ones 0:42:31.719 --> 0:42:34.839 that exist. It doesn't need to be mysterious because it's 0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:39.920 something it's like easily trackable. And and maybe you'd see 0:42:39.920 --> 0:42:43.560 a diminishment of um I would like to think you'd 0:42:43.560 --> 0:42:48.840 see a diminishment of shot up appliances because we use honestly, 0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:51.280 we use a lot of makeshift You kind of forced 0:42:51.280 --> 0:42:53.359 to We use a lot of makeshift shooting range and 0:42:53.400 --> 0:42:55.160 that's part of the concern to this, I mean, is 0:42:55.200 --> 0:42:56.880 one of the things that we find from new shooters 0:42:56.880 --> 0:43:01.200 new hunters is is the barriers to entry. One. Let's 0:43:01.239 --> 0:43:03.560 be honest, it's an expensive sport to get into. Whether 0:43:03.560 --> 0:43:06.800 you're gonna be shooting recreational, you're gonna hunt buying a rifle, 0:43:06.840 --> 0:43:09.960 buying licenses, uh, you know, whether you're not, you're gonna 0:43:09.960 --> 0:43:12.680 be buying access through you know, hunt leases, those kinds 0:43:12.719 --> 0:43:15.280 of things. But when you have a public access range, 0:43:15.360 --> 0:43:17.799 now that's open to everybody to go use. But again, 0:43:17.840 --> 0:43:19.440 what we're seeing here is a lot of range that 0:43:19.480 --> 0:43:21.960 have dilapidated or their ad hoc ranges. And we actually 0:43:22.000 --> 0:43:24.080 had cases out there in Arizona where people were shooting 0:43:24.080 --> 0:43:27.440 on public ranges that weren't maintained and weren't well kept, 0:43:27.680 --> 0:43:29.800 and you had a fatality of a pregnant Air Force 0:43:30.000 --> 0:43:33.600 spouse who was shot and killed by a stray around 0:43:33.640 --> 0:43:35.360 that went beyond the edge of that range, beyond the 0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:38.319 left and right let of limits and and resulted in 0:43:38.360 --> 0:43:41.480 the fatality. We want safe places for people to go shoot. 0:43:41.640 --> 0:43:44.200 It's one of the things we're working are working for 0:43:44.880 --> 0:43:49.799 UM in the council, the Federal Advisory Committee that I'm 0:43:49.880 --> 0:43:53.200 i chair, the Shooting Committee, And that's exactly the discussion 0:43:53.239 --> 0:43:57.000 we've been having is we need places where people can 0:43:57.040 --> 0:44:00.080 go shoot. They need you know, dedicated space so that 0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:03.680 they can be policed. After the Shot Show last year, 0:44:04.600 --> 0:44:07.880 myself and several other folks menaces have went out with 0:44:07.920 --> 0:44:12.680 secretaries Inky and and local volunteers, uh and you know, 0:44:12.760 --> 0:44:16.440 to clean up some blm land where people had been shooting. 0:44:16.680 --> 0:44:19.800 And it was not pretty right. I mean it's the 0:44:20.239 --> 0:44:24.200 shot up TVs and refrigerators and couches and just like 0:44:24.719 --> 0:44:28.000 it was just it was embarrassing and here was it. 0:44:28.120 --> 0:44:31.239 They're picking this trash up and bags and bag after 0:44:31.239 --> 0:44:33.640 bag after bag, and it's like, you know this this 0:44:33.680 --> 0:44:36.080 is not a good you know, if you're not a hunter, 0:44:36.080 --> 0:44:39.000 you're not a shooter. You come and saw this, it 0:44:39.000 --> 0:44:40.640 would not be you know, you would not have a 0:44:40.680 --> 0:44:43.840 good opinion of the sport or people that participated in 0:44:43.840 --> 0:44:47.399 the sport. You want to point out like I don't um, 0:44:47.440 --> 0:44:49.480 you know you're a shooter. But it does mean I 0:44:49.520 --> 0:44:53.640 condone littering exactly. But they get they get conflated. Yes, 0:44:53.920 --> 0:44:56.760 you know, yeah, I think it could become a major barrier, 0:44:57.040 --> 0:44:59.440 right Like for us, we all of us at the 0:44:59.480 --> 0:45:01.920 table can sort of like deal with that and you 0:45:01.960 --> 0:45:04.200 can like make it a safe place when you show 0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:07.520 up and if you see unsafe activity, you can walk away. 0:45:07.719 --> 0:45:09.960 But to someone that's just trying to get into it 0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:11.880 and you just you show up at a place like that, 0:45:11.960 --> 0:45:14.799 it's like you're not gonna be able to make the 0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:16.680 best of that. You're just gonna turn around and walk away. 0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:19.680 It's it becomes it leads to be a lm closing 0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:22.839 off lands, shotting lands now right to shooting. And even 0:45:22.880 --> 0:45:26.439 for us, I feel like there's never like enough shooting ranges. 0:45:26.480 --> 0:45:29.000 And all the places I've lived across the West, um, 0:45:29.200 --> 0:45:31.560 I've never lived in a town where there was so 0:45:31.560 --> 0:45:33.640 many shooting ranges were on a Saturday, You're like, oh, 0:45:33.640 --> 0:45:35.880 I'm just gonna go here and it won't be busy, 0:45:36.120 --> 0:45:38.920 right Like. So when I moved to Virginia, I actually 0:45:39.480 --> 0:45:41.520 one of the criteria for the house that I chose 0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:44.360 to live in was the the access to a private 0:45:44.360 --> 0:45:46.320 shooting range is just down the road from my house. 0:45:46.880 --> 0:45:48.279 So I mean, that's how important it is for some 0:45:48.320 --> 0:45:49.560 of us. We want to know that we can get 0:45:49.560 --> 0:45:51.759 somewhere we can shoot. And it's it's a question I 0:45:51.800 --> 0:45:53.520 get from people all the time, you know, where can 0:45:53.520 --> 0:45:55.760 I go shoot? I'm fortunate that I've got a public 0:45:55.760 --> 0:45:57.880 shooting range not too far from the house where i 0:45:57.880 --> 0:45:59.960 can go shoot swing a shotgun. And I've also got 0:45:59.960 --> 0:46:04.279 a private range where i can go shoot. Yeah, what's 0:46:04.280 --> 0:46:07.440 it called where let's go let's go shooting dot org. Yeah. 0:46:07.640 --> 0:46:09.520 I grew up a mile we could ride our bikes 0:46:09.520 --> 0:46:12.240 down to our shoot range. It was it wasn't public. 0:46:12.239 --> 0:46:14.080 It was a private gun club. Twin a gun club, 0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:16.040 and you know, you'd have to work hard to find 0:46:16.080 --> 0:46:21.600 someone there. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was nice to have. Uh. 0:46:21.760 --> 0:46:25.280 Back to the pivot suppressors. This is something that becomes 0:46:25.320 --> 0:46:27.799 like increasingly interested and I'm actually just entered into the 0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:32.480 prob I just began the process with the help of 0:46:32.480 --> 0:46:36.000 a friend of mine, um, a friend of mine at Vortex. 0:46:36.080 --> 0:46:40.880 I began the process of doing the the rigmarole to 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:44.760 acquire one. Yeah, when I started it before I started before, 0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:48.959 but at the time there was a fourteen months delay. 0:46:49.080 --> 0:46:51.919 It's probably about nine ten months now. He was saying 0:46:51.960 --> 0:46:54.560 maybe eight maybe it's well then the shot then nothing 0:46:54.560 --> 0:46:57.239 got processed doing I think it's we asked him to 0:46:57.320 --> 0:47:01.560 tell us what the delay is, UM, and it was 0:47:01.640 --> 0:47:04.879 eight months. It's started getting it down. It's probably eight 0:47:04.960 --> 0:47:09.440 nine months. A friend of mine actually, UM, that's UM 0:47:09.760 --> 0:47:12.799 got one a year. Yeah, I want to get into that, 0:47:13.480 --> 0:47:16.239 like what that process looks like and what could remedy it. 0:47:16.280 --> 0:47:19.720 But just touched on it, kind of like my personal 0:47:19.760 --> 0:47:25.359 awareness of the issue. UM. I hunted with one years 0:47:25.360 --> 0:47:31.239 ago how many years ago? Nine years ago in Scotland, Okay, 0:47:31.680 --> 0:47:35.400 and I'm in I'm sitting there with a guy what 0:47:35.440 --> 0:47:40.560 do they call the what do they call the guy hunt? Whatever? 0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:42.759 He's like a man, he's like a game man. Yeah there, 0:47:42.760 --> 0:47:45.480 game man's just called Gillies. Shoots tons of shoots tons 0:47:45.480 --> 0:47:47.160 of deer off a big they got, like this huge 0:47:47.160 --> 0:47:49.920 private property like in the state, and this guy shoots 0:47:49.920 --> 0:47:52.799 tons of them for the market. I mean he like, 0:47:53.000 --> 0:47:55.360 you know, they sell red deer, right, they sell wild 0:47:55.560 --> 0:47:57.840 red deer. And he shoots and guts and brings to 0:47:57.960 --> 0:48:02.480 market red deer processes him now processes and but strips 0:48:02.520 --> 0:48:04.920 the hide and the only and it well, it was 0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:08.520 funny he only got from the diaphragm down, which there's 0:48:08.640 --> 0:48:10.520 they had a word for it too. Anyways, this guy 0:48:10.560 --> 0:48:13.000 hounts it a suppressor. He had a tik T three 0:48:13.719 --> 0:48:20.319 because it's to seventy that my lee with a suppressed round. 0:48:20.400 --> 0:48:22.359 I remember saying that this is years ago, and I 0:48:22.400 --> 0:48:24.080 wasn't like it's aware of them and then and I'm like, 0:48:24.120 --> 0:48:25.680 I can't believe you guys can hunt with these things, 0:48:25.719 --> 0:48:30.080 because I can't believe you don't. It's their rule. Yes, 0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:32.960 he's not allowed to not use it. That's exactly right. 0:48:33.440 --> 0:48:38.000 Only in America is there this public perception that this 0:48:38.080 --> 0:48:42.200 is some evil device only used has only one purpose, 0:48:42.360 --> 0:48:46.719 that's for gangsters and assassins, right like, and as you say, 0:48:46.800 --> 0:48:50.560 and the rest of the world that doesn't have that connotation. 0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:54.520 It's required for hunting in many parts, even the countries 0:48:54.560 --> 0:48:58.680 that have a very restrict Finland, like you, even if 0:48:58.680 --> 0:49:01.239 you're out, you know, when going around for miles, you 0:49:01.320 --> 0:49:04.799 still required by law there to use it. You can 0:49:04.840 --> 0:49:09.040 buy them like hardware stores in London. Right in England 0:49:09.120 --> 0:49:12.120 they're not. You can buy them and jailing in like 0:49:13.239 --> 0:49:15.439 they come from China. They're made up plastic and they're 0:49:15.440 --> 0:49:19.240 disposable and they cost like bucks. I've been told, um, 0:49:19.400 --> 0:49:23.239 only in America do you have this connotations. But you 0:49:23.400 --> 0:49:26.239 they are legal to possess in forty two states. You 0:49:26.360 --> 0:49:28.600 gotta jump through all the hoops, but they're legal and 0:49:28.680 --> 0:49:30.520 forty two stags and you can hunt with them now 0:49:30.560 --> 0:49:35.080 in forty states. So you know, there's the let there's 0:49:35.120 --> 0:49:38.120 the legislation that's been pending for a while called the 0:49:38.160 --> 0:49:41.399 Hearing Protection Act. I want to talk more. I want 0:49:41.400 --> 0:49:43.360 to talk theory for a couple more minutes, and I 0:49:43.400 --> 0:49:44.920 want to talk about all this other stuff because this 0:49:44.960 --> 0:49:47.120 is stuff, this stuff I don't actually don't understand. We 0:49:47.160 --> 0:49:48.719 want to talk about the theory of it from mr. 0:49:49.040 --> 0:49:55.279 Because the best argument I've heard against suppressors was from 0:49:55.320 --> 0:49:57.680 a remember just we're hunting swamp rabbits and can talk 0:49:57.719 --> 0:50:00.480 to do We're talking to a game hunting with a 0:50:00.520 --> 0:50:02.600 game warden, and I think I've told I've told this 0:50:02.640 --> 0:50:04.279 story like too many times. Are about to tell one 0:50:04.320 --> 0:50:06.319 more time that I'm never gonna tell it again. We're 0:50:06.320 --> 0:50:10.920 talking to him and he was saying how during general 0:50:10.960 --> 0:50:13.120 firearms season, hunting for him is out of the question. 0:50:13.239 --> 0:50:15.640 He's just too busy doing his work as a game ward, 0:50:16.080 --> 0:50:19.040 but he says he does like to uh squeeze in 0:50:19.080 --> 0:50:23.040 some archery hunting. He says, but my problem is I 0:50:23.080 --> 0:50:26.319 get up in my tree stand. It's bow season and 0:50:26.320 --> 0:50:32.839 it gets around prime time and often the distance pouch right. 0:50:34.040 --> 0:50:38.480 He's like something about that shot doesn't sound right, and 0:50:38.480 --> 0:50:40.120 he says that I'm down out of my tree stand 0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:43.200 heading over in some direction, and he was saying that. 0:50:44.400 --> 0:50:46.640 He also said that Facebook is a very important has 0:50:46.719 --> 0:50:49.320 become has emerged as a very good law enforcement tool. 0:50:49.719 --> 0:50:50.800 He said, like, I don't need to go out on 0:50:50.800 --> 0:50:53.640 the bois bar. I got Facebook. But he said, like 0:50:53.760 --> 0:50:57.160 that sound is important. Is an important tool for him, 0:50:57.719 --> 0:51:04.759 And he was leery of suppressor because the gunshot right. 0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:07.799 But then I think about, like and I took that 0:51:07.840 --> 0:51:09.759 in and and I thought about But then more I 0:51:09.760 --> 0:51:11.399 think about it is like the way we the way 0:51:11.440 --> 0:51:16.960 we're trained to view wildlife and in the wildlife models 0:51:17.000 --> 0:51:20.640 that we have is where we're trained to view it 0:51:20.760 --> 0:51:24.759 or not trained to. It's necessary to view wildlife at 0:51:24.840 --> 0:51:29.319 population level. So I just have the more thing. I 0:51:29.320 --> 0:51:33.680 just have a very hard time picturing that you would 0:51:33.719 --> 0:51:45.000 see even localized population impact from if some small number 0:51:45.160 --> 0:51:48.440 of poachers use that technology along with all the other 0:51:48.440 --> 0:51:52.359 technologies available to them, including cross bowls, which are much quieter. Um, 0:51:52.400 --> 0:51:54.960 I just can't see, like, I can't see their becoming 0:51:56.440 --> 0:52:03.800 significant population level declines game because of this this other tool. 0:52:05.000 --> 0:52:07.680 So let's back up. Yeah, so let's just back up 0:52:07.680 --> 0:52:10.120 a second to what your your game warden is telling you. 0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:12.000 Cause I've got a guy I used to work for 0:52:12.080 --> 0:52:14.080 him Marine Corpt. And he retired andies the game ward 0:52:14.120 --> 0:52:16.920 in Florida, and his initial reactions suppressor is the same thing. 0:52:17.000 --> 0:52:18.799 They're gonna be a tool for poachers all the time. 0:52:19.239 --> 0:52:21.839 But something the key that you said. So the game 0:52:21.880 --> 0:52:24.839 ward sitting in his tree stand and he hears this 0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:29.760 gun shot slightly different, doesn't sound like a normal gun shot, 0:52:30.000 --> 0:52:32.560 but he still hears it. So here's the point about it. 0:52:33.040 --> 0:52:36.680 I misspoke. Not No, he wasn't pointing that out where 0:52:36.680 --> 0:52:38.520 he was pointing. He wasn't saying it was a suppressed 0:52:38.520 --> 0:52:41.920 gun shot, just the timing of the gun shot, meaning 0:52:42.000 --> 0:52:44.680 a single gun shot at dusk. Sure, Okay, yeah, I 0:52:44.760 --> 0:52:46.879 got it. So you still hear this gun shot, But again, 0:52:46.920 --> 0:52:49.400 the whole deal was suppressors, is it doesn't completely silence 0:52:49.480 --> 0:52:53.960 the gun. It brings it down from the same decibel 0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:57.600 level of about a jet going off to about below 0:52:57.600 --> 0:52:59.560 a jackhammer, where it's not going to cause instant and 0:53:00.040 --> 0:53:04.439 permanent here laws, you can still hear that exactly. That's 0:53:04.440 --> 0:53:07.919 why we in the law they're called silencers because that's 0:53:07.960 --> 0:53:12.000 the name Maxim gave to it when he invented it, 0:53:12.120 --> 0:53:14.640 right like, and he's the guy that he it was 0:53:15.040 --> 0:53:18.120 he invented the muffler on cars. It is. Its function 0:53:18.200 --> 0:53:21.040 is the same as a muffler. You can still hear 0:53:21.080 --> 0:53:23.360 a car with a muffler. Without the muffler. It's a 0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:32.480 lot louder, but that's all it is. It muffles straight pipes. Yeah, 0:53:32.880 --> 0:53:38.280 so that's why we always refer to it as suppressors, 0:53:38.320 --> 0:53:41.359 not not silencers. It's, you know, even though the law 0:53:41.360 --> 0:53:44.920 of suncers, you know, to try to win the rhetorical 0:53:44.960 --> 0:53:50.200 battle is I understand it. UM. The best research UM 0:53:50.320 --> 0:53:54.040 on the on the issues was done by UM Steve Hallbrook, 0:53:54.080 --> 0:53:58.000 a lawyer. Second Amendment Abbas argued many Supreme Court cases 0:53:58.480 --> 0:54:03.200 and he's written a number of books. The UM. The 0:54:03.360 --> 0:54:09.440 reason that suppressors were put in the National Firms Act 0:54:10.680 --> 0:54:14.919 was at the request of fishing game agencies because they 0:54:14.960 --> 0:54:20.719 were concerned that people would use suppressors to poach game 0:54:20.960 --> 0:54:23.520 during the depression. That's where it came from. Yes, and 0:54:23.600 --> 0:54:28.000 it never happened. And and now they're legal in hunt 0:54:28.040 --> 0:54:31.600 within forty states and I've not seen any evidence or 0:54:31.719 --> 0:54:35.759 suggestion that you know, people are poaching and it's having 0:54:35.800 --> 0:54:40.479 an impact on population localized. Okay, but you can poach 0:54:40.520 --> 0:54:43.080 with a crossbow. No one talking about getting rid of crossbows. 0:54:43.920 --> 0:54:46.920 It's like an effect. There's plenty of if you follow 0:54:46.920 --> 0:54:49.000 the news, there's plenty of poaching that goes down with 0:54:49.160 --> 0:54:52.640 archery equipment. But no one's suggesting, hey, we should be 0:54:52.640 --> 0:54:54.960 allowed to have bows because they're so quiet and you 0:54:54.960 --> 0:54:57.239 can poach with them. But even take it outside the 0:54:57.239 --> 0:54:59.239 context of hunting, right, I mean, like if you go 0:54:59.320 --> 0:55:02.600 to a shooting range. One of the biggest complaints or 0:55:02.760 --> 0:55:06.319 issues for shooting ranges is noise complaints from neighbors. Right. 0:55:07.280 --> 0:55:10.520 Typically it's you know, the rangers in rural area and 0:55:10.560 --> 0:55:13.759 then the suburbs move in. People move next to a 0:55:13.760 --> 0:55:16.040 shooting range, and then they're shocked to learn that they're 0:55:16.040 --> 0:55:20.239 shooting at the shooting range. On Saturday morning. So if 0:55:20.280 --> 0:55:25.919 you're range that I moved next to, so it will 0:55:25.960 --> 0:55:29.040 allow people at shooting rate ranges to be better neighbors 0:55:29.080 --> 0:55:32.719 and to sort of address that concern and issue. But 0:55:33.239 --> 0:55:37.440 and if let's assume there was some evidence that developed 0:55:37.440 --> 0:55:40.080 that we got a problem in this state or this 0:55:40.200 --> 0:55:42.799 part of the state where you know we're seeing in 0:55:42.840 --> 0:55:45.879 reduction in an adverse population. In fact, we think there's 0:55:45.880 --> 0:55:48.719 a lot of coaching and people using suppressors, Well, then 0:55:49.520 --> 0:55:53.560 you can state fishing gamage. She has the power to 0:55:53.880 --> 0:55:56.520 you know, manage that and say okay, you can't use 0:55:56.560 --> 0:55:59.719 suppressors now. But I mean, if people are approaching the 0:56:00.280 --> 0:56:03.319 breaking the law, all right, I mean it's like so, 0:56:04.080 --> 0:56:05.880 but I don't think there's any evidence of that and 0:56:05.920 --> 0:56:08.080 they never used in crime. I mean, like you can't 0:56:08.120 --> 0:56:12.080 find evidence of a t come out and say it's 0:56:12.080 --> 0:56:19.160 infantesimally low. I mean, they can't zero Another thing that 0:56:19.160 --> 0:56:20.440 I think But when I look at it, as I 0:56:20.480 --> 0:56:22.000 was kind of kicking this whole thing around, is that 0:56:23.520 --> 0:56:29.840 why why why does shooters have to like why do 0:56:29.920 --> 0:56:33.160 we have to as a matter of law, except how 0:56:33.320 --> 0:56:38.000 loud a firearm is, Like if firearmer is naturally quiet. 0:56:38.560 --> 0:56:41.480 Would there be legislation that made you make it loud? 0:56:41.920 --> 0:56:44.879 So one of the arguments against the Hearing Protection Act 0:56:45.000 --> 0:56:47.560 from the gun control groups is that, you know, the police, 0:56:48.040 --> 0:56:51.840 it would defeat this technology that was developed in Iraq 0:56:51.880 --> 0:56:54.680 and now being used in some city spot shot shot 0:56:54.719 --> 0:56:58.879 spotter and the CEO of the company said no, the 0:56:58.880 --> 0:57:04.040 technology would still a coup report of suppressed firearms and 0:57:04.080 --> 0:57:07.319 all they have to do is tweak the software. So yeah, 0:57:07.360 --> 0:57:11.760 that that became the argument like that somehow bad guys 0:57:11.880 --> 0:57:15.680 are gonna get go through the rigamarole and get suppressors. 0:57:15.680 --> 0:57:17.720 I mean it's just thinking, get them now the legal 0:57:17.760 --> 0:57:20.720 and forty two states, and you don't see crimes being 0:57:20.800 --> 0:57:24.160 committed with them. The thing to nothing that nothing changed 0:57:24.160 --> 0:57:28.680 my perspectives as I kicked it around. Um, I think 0:57:28.800 --> 0:57:31.360 having kids kind of affected to because I have hearing loss. 0:57:31.360 --> 0:57:33.320 I'm left handed and I have hearing loss in my 0:57:33.400 --> 0:57:37.600 left ear. What you don't say, I mean everybody hang 0:57:37.640 --> 0:57:41.040 out with everyone. I hang out with one another. Yeah, 0:57:41.080 --> 0:57:47.240 so I have it and now it's largely self inflicted. Okay, 0:57:47.280 --> 0:57:50.800 because I've known for my adult life then and I'm 0:57:50.840 --> 0:57:52.440 bad about it. I need to be better. But I'm 0:57:52.440 --> 0:57:56.680 bad about hearing protection. Um lazy about hearing protection. When 0:57:56.720 --> 0:57:58.360 I was a kid, it wasn't self inflicted. It was 0:57:58.400 --> 0:58:00.360 just that my dad had no where the didn't have 0:58:00.400 --> 0:58:03.440 awareness of it. He probably I can only imagine what 0:58:03.600 --> 0:58:05.040 kind of hearing. A lot of emails they had from 0:58:05.160 --> 0:58:10.960 being you know, uh, combat soldier. But uh, now, man, 0:58:11.120 --> 0:58:14.439 when I when I'm with my kids we're shooting, I'm 0:58:14.600 --> 0:58:17.760 very aware of the ear thing. In fact, I made 0:58:17.760 --> 0:58:21.080 my kid we're all duck hunting, and I made him 0:58:21.080 --> 0:58:23.800 sit there with the headphones on. You know, he can't 0:58:23.800 --> 0:58:25.680 hear it. I'd be yelling at him to go grab 0:58:25.680 --> 0:58:27.720 a doct or somebody. Can't hear anything everybody's saying. But 0:58:27.760 --> 0:58:29.960 I'm just like, I'm aware of it now. And so 0:58:30.720 --> 0:58:34.600 when he's ten where we live, he can hunt with me. 0:58:35.120 --> 0:58:38.240 You can hunt deer with me when he's ten, and 0:58:39.160 --> 0:58:41.920 I'm gonna have him home with the suppress rifle. Yeah. 0:58:42.280 --> 0:58:44.640 And there's other benefits aside from the from the here, 0:58:44.840 --> 0:58:46.800 from the hearing protection of it all. I mean, it's 0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:50.680 reduced recoil, it's it's it's less of a muzzle flash. 0:58:50.720 --> 0:58:52.640 It's it's when you're trying to introduce someone to the 0:58:52.680 --> 0:58:55.240 shooting sports, into hunting, and you're able to sit there, 0:58:55.280 --> 0:58:57.040 especially if you're gonna be hunting out of a out 0:58:57.040 --> 0:58:58.480 of a shoothouse or out of a blond or you're 0:58:58.480 --> 0:59:00.200 sitting at a tree stand in close proxim need to 0:59:00.280 --> 0:59:03.200 one another. It's it's less of that shock that's coming 0:59:03.200 --> 0:59:05.000 out of the end of the barrel and the muscle blast. 0:59:05.080 --> 0:59:08.240 So it takes it up and it makes that learning 0:59:08.280 --> 0:59:10.680 experience for someone new, like a ten year old kid, 0:59:10.800 --> 0:59:12.560 it's gonna be a little bit more enjoyable, a little 0:59:12.560 --> 0:59:15.400 bit less intimidating. It takes some of that that scariness 0:59:15.440 --> 0:59:18.760 out of it. So yeah, I'm definitely saying I'm sensitive 0:59:18.800 --> 0:59:22.920 to I'm saying I don't want to like diminish the 0:59:23.080 --> 0:59:26.720 arguments against and I'm sensitive to it. But I just 0:59:27.600 --> 0:59:30.040 I just feel like it's a situation where the pros 0:59:30.160 --> 0:59:32.320 really outweighed the cons in my mind, and the cons 0:59:32.360 --> 0:59:35.720 haven't aren't the cons aren't demonstrated their hypothetical comment. The 0:59:36.280 --> 0:59:39.880 opposition to it comes from gun control groups, and they 0:59:39.920 --> 0:59:45.080 don't have any to me, you know, good case or 0:59:45.160 --> 0:59:48.920 good arguments at all. And in fact, you know it 0:59:48.960 --> 0:59:51.840 would be good for a t F because they spend 0:59:51.880 --> 0:59:57.240 an enormous amount of time and energy and money processing 0:59:57.440 --> 1:00:01.560 these paper the paperwork where and uh, you know this 1:00:01.640 --> 1:00:03.400 is not a public this is not a you know, 1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:06.360 public safety issue. It's not going to result in crime 1:00:06.680 --> 1:00:09.600 or anything like that. And they spend an incredible amount 1:00:09.600 --> 1:00:13.320 of time processing these form force you have to fill 1:00:13.360 --> 1:00:16.080 out and explain the process like would involved. Yeah, so, yeah, 1:00:16.280 --> 1:00:19.120 there's a two hundred tax that you have to pay 1:00:19.720 --> 1:00:23.920 um and you have bought this form. You have to 1:00:23.960 --> 1:00:27.760 get you know, pictures, fingerprints and the forum and send 1:00:27.760 --> 1:00:29.600 it in with two hundred dollars to a t F 1:00:30.400 --> 1:00:34.520 and notification of the Chief law enforce PRIs who does 1:00:34.600 --> 1:00:42.160 want with it nothing? Uh, And then the two goes 1:00:42.200 --> 1:00:46.120 to the treasury a t F process of paperwork, and 1:00:46.360 --> 1:00:49.680 they do a background check. Guess what the background check is? 1:00:49.680 --> 1:00:51.600 The exact same background check you go through and you 1:00:51.640 --> 1:00:54.560 buy a gun at retail, right, the exact same check. 1:00:56.240 --> 1:00:59.400 What does it take because there's just stacks of paper, 1:01:00.440 --> 1:01:04.760 you know, it's it's all paper, right, So, so ways 1:01:04.800 --> 1:01:07.760 to improve it would be electronic forms. Some of the 1:01:07.800 --> 1:01:12.480 discussions about how you might do legislation would be the 1:01:12.480 --> 1:01:14.160 The original act was to take it out of the 1:01:14.280 --> 1:01:18.919 n f A. Suppressors are also in the Gun Control Act. Right, 1:01:18.960 --> 1:01:22.000 So even if you took it out of the National 1:01:22.000 --> 1:01:24.680 Firms Act, so you didn't have to pay the two dollars, 1:01:24.760 --> 1:01:26.400 you didn't have to do the form for the same 1:01:26.440 --> 1:01:29.160 thing that makes it fully automatic. That's the same that's 1:01:29.200 --> 1:01:35.400 the same act that covers automatic. Right, yes, exactly. So, Um, 1:01:35.440 --> 1:01:37.160 if you took it out of the National Firms Act, 1:01:37.200 --> 1:01:39.440 it would still be in the Gun Control Act. So 1:01:39.480 --> 1:01:42.360 if you would, so they would still be serialized, they 1:01:42.360 --> 1:01:46.600 would still be seventy three and a background check performed 1:01:46.920 --> 1:01:49.000 on the purchase, or the same background check they do 1:01:49.120 --> 1:01:51.080 a second time when they go to pick up the suppressor, 1:01:51.960 --> 1:01:55.000 So you're doing the same same check twice. What's the point? Right? 1:01:55.040 --> 1:01:58.720 So that would like then then you know, the manufacturers 1:01:58.760 --> 1:02:00.640 could ship into license the liers and you can go 1:02:00.680 --> 1:02:02.600 in and you can have him an inventory. You can 1:02:02.640 --> 1:02:07.320 go buy one and go through the same right. So 1:02:07.920 --> 1:02:10.680 there are some but there's one bill that's been introduced 1:02:10.680 --> 1:02:12.560 in the Senate that would take it even out of 1:02:12.600 --> 1:02:16.680 the Gun Control Act. Um, you know, and it would 1:02:16.680 --> 1:02:18.760 be wouldn't be regulated or just be like any other 1:02:18.800 --> 1:02:21.760 accessory because it's not a farmer doesn't do anything and 1:02:21.840 --> 1:02:24.040 only you know, as we talked to you, just it's 1:02:24.040 --> 1:02:27.160 an attachment that you would put on a firearm. So 1:02:27.480 --> 1:02:30.200 the argument be, what's why is this being controlled at all? 1:02:30.600 --> 1:02:34.880 So you know whether that's Look, the legislation didn't move 1:02:34.920 --> 1:02:38.640 into Republican controlled House and Senate because there's a lot 1:02:38.680 --> 1:02:41.080 of misinformation out there and a lot of education needs 1:02:41.120 --> 1:02:45.200 to be done. Um, you know so, but in a 1:02:45.280 --> 1:02:48.680 Democrat controlled House where you know they're having hearings today 1:02:48.720 --> 1:02:53.640 on gun control legislation, the prospects of moving that legislation 1:02:54.080 --> 1:02:58.680 in this Congress is you know, it's not feasible in 1:02:58.680 --> 1:03:02.760 my opinion, even like even with the arguments around just 1:03:03.000 --> 1:03:07.880 safety issues. Yeah, I mean, it becomes a political issue. 1:03:07.920 --> 1:03:12.840 They're not going to pass anything like it. It's not 1:03:12.840 --> 1:03:20.040 gonna happen. Yeah, can you talk. But I mean even 1:03:20.080 --> 1:03:23.800 even when the Republicans control the House, was still difficult 1:03:23.840 --> 1:03:26.080 to move the bill and in the Senate as well. 1:03:26.120 --> 1:03:29.200 I mean it was just you know, we didn't get 1:03:29.280 --> 1:03:31.280 enough co sponsors, we didn't get enough movement on it. 1:03:31.360 --> 1:03:34.920 So it takes a lot of time. It takes years 1:03:34.920 --> 1:03:38.200 and years and years happen. I think I will. It's 1:03:38.200 --> 1:03:41.120 gonna take a while longer, So I would say you 1:03:41.280 --> 1:03:45.040 probably he He's go in a minute, or it could 1:03:45.080 --> 1:03:49.680 take another ten years. When when here In Protection Act 1:03:49.760 --> 1:03:52.240 was introduced in the last Congress, and we saw a 1:03:52.240 --> 1:03:54.560 lot of people got very excited and they kind of 1:03:54.600 --> 1:03:56.280 sat out on the sidelines. But I'm gonna wait. So 1:03:56.320 --> 1:03:57.720 I wanted to pay the tour in all attacks and 1:03:57.760 --> 1:04:01.320 wait nine months, so we're back to where we're telling him, 1:04:01.320 --> 1:04:04.960 then don't wait because things in Congress are glacial. So 1:04:05.200 --> 1:04:09.560 if you want a suppression, I would completely agree. If 1:04:09.600 --> 1:04:11.840 you're holding off anyone because you think you're not gonna 1:04:11.880 --> 1:04:14.680 pay the two under all attacks, yeah you can be 1:04:14.680 --> 1:04:17.360 waiting a long time. Unfortunately, I had dinner recently with 1:04:17.400 --> 1:04:20.360 one of the state uh with a state legislator in 1:04:20.400 --> 1:04:25.920 Montana who was um who worked heavily on the on 1:04:25.960 --> 1:04:28.880 the one that that the that allowed for hunting in Montana, 1:04:29.480 --> 1:04:31.920 and then they had had some resistance, They had had 1:04:31.960 --> 1:04:34.120 some resistance there against fishing game. Yeah, I don't I 1:04:34.120 --> 1:04:35.160 don't know if it was I don't know if it 1:04:35.200 --> 1:04:37.160 was a real strenuous resistance but there was some there 1:04:37.200 --> 1:04:40.840 was some resistance. So there's been efforts to events around 1:04:40.880 --> 1:04:45.960 the country UM done by the American Suppress Association and 1:04:46.080 --> 1:04:48.560 SPIST helped out, and RA has helped out as well. 1:04:49.000 --> 1:04:53.440 To educate state legislators. We did an event at the 1:04:53.560 --> 1:04:56.560 UM shooting Rage and Rayburn Building. Did you know that 1:04:56.600 --> 1:05:01.000 there's a there's a range and ranger New Congress. Oh, 1:05:01.640 --> 1:05:04.840 it's for the Capital Hill Police. But we had the 1:05:04.920 --> 1:05:09.080 member host an event for other members so that they 1:05:09.080 --> 1:05:14.440 could come in here for themselves. The difference between expressed 1:05:14.440 --> 1:05:17.080 and unspressed firearm and that there's still a very loud 1:05:17.120 --> 1:05:20.760 report you can hear and it's not silenced in any way, 1:05:20.760 --> 1:05:23.240 shape or form. What you see on TV, you know, 1:05:23.360 --> 1:05:26.160 like you know, like the puff of air and it's 1:05:26.200 --> 1:05:30.120 just not reality. Would you want with one? Definitely? What 1:05:30.200 --> 1:05:32.160 I was gonna add that I didn't know about, but 1:05:32.240 --> 1:05:35.320 we were looking into doing a podcast just about hearing 1:05:35.400 --> 1:05:37.800 loss and hearing protection and whatnot, and talking to a 1:05:37.840 --> 1:05:39.760 bunch of these experts, they were saying, Yeah, the one 1:05:39.800 --> 1:05:46.080 thing that it would be a very loud but important 1:05:46.280 --> 1:05:49.600 right like obviously not as so important to year old, 1:05:49.680 --> 1:05:52.440 but as we age and you start to realize that 1:05:52.480 --> 1:05:54.520 you're losing it and you want to protect your kids, 1:05:54.680 --> 1:05:56.959 on and on. But um, a lot of these guys 1:05:56.960 --> 1:05:59.680 were saying that, Yeah, it's like it only minimized it 1:05:59.800 --> 1:06:01.880 so much that it takes it down to like you're 1:06:01.880 --> 1:06:05.960 saying to it, but you're still if you don't run 1:06:05.960 --> 1:06:10.280 your protection while you shoot a suppressed going, you are 1:06:10.320 --> 1:06:14.360 still getting hearing damage. It's not a like you just 1:06:14.360 --> 1:06:17.280 put it on and you're just off you go. Like 1:06:17.320 --> 1:06:19.400 everyone I talked to you said, you should still wear 1:06:19.480 --> 1:06:23.200 hearing protection. That's probably the best argument the other side 1:06:23.240 --> 1:06:26.840 has is but when you say you know, hearing protection 1:06:27.040 --> 1:06:31.440 and they say we're hearing protection, you know, yeah, what 1:06:31.480 --> 1:06:39.080 the tonality is why you shouldn't be shooting anyway? Uh, 1:06:39.560 --> 1:06:45.240 background checks? Can you explain? I heard a story now, 1:06:45.400 --> 1:06:46.960 I heard a story I was living. I was living 1:06:46.960 --> 1:06:48.960 in Washington when I heard the story. I heard a 1:06:49.000 --> 1:06:53.000 story about how if you lie on your background check, 1:06:54.000 --> 1:07:01.000 that the prosecutors don't prosecute people who lie on background checks, 1:07:01.040 --> 1:07:03.240 and even interviewed I think someone from the King County 1:07:03.320 --> 1:07:06.880 Sheriff's department, so that the county that holds Seattle, and 1:07:07.120 --> 1:07:12.919 he even confirmed I can't remember how many people some 1:07:13.080 --> 1:07:20.960 staggering number dusing the hundreds of thousands of people who 1:07:21.480 --> 1:07:23.640 tried to buy one and led on a background check, 1:07:24.800 --> 1:07:26.600 but then don't get in trouble for having lied on 1:07:26.600 --> 1:07:31.000 the background check. Do you understand this at all? I 1:07:31.040 --> 1:07:32.960 don't even under something if I'm explaining it right. But 1:07:32.960 --> 1:07:35.880 it's a story when you fell out the forum. It's 1:07:35.920 --> 1:07:39.080 called the forum seventy three. Anyone has purchased a gun 1:07:39.160 --> 1:07:42.080 from a license dealer has build it out and then 1:07:42.080 --> 1:07:44.320 they ask you questions, are you you know, are you 1:07:44.360 --> 1:07:48.400 a felon? Just honor the discharged? You know here illegally 1:07:50.280 --> 1:07:54.920 restraining order? Right, so that like seven categories to make 1:07:54.920 --> 1:07:57.720 you a privative person and then you sign it and 1:07:57.840 --> 1:08:00.520 you swear to the accuracy of it. So you lie 1:08:00.520 --> 1:08:04.680 in the forum. Um, it's a crime, federal crime, and 1:08:04.920 --> 1:08:09.640 you get up ten years in jail. But well, so 1:08:09.680 --> 1:08:11.960 what hass So then to do the background check, right, 1:08:12.000 --> 1:08:17.360 and let's say the persons denied right or um you 1:08:17.400 --> 1:08:21.360 even have cases where people don't lie in the forum. 1:08:22.080 --> 1:08:24.200 Uh hre they lie in the forum and they passed 1:08:24.240 --> 1:08:26.519 the background check. But let's say you've fill out the form, 1:08:26.680 --> 1:08:29.519 you lie say you aren't a convicted felon when you are, 1:08:30.000 --> 1:08:34.120 and you get denied, right, So when that happens, the 1:08:34.160 --> 1:08:38.400 FBI notifies the dealer is not told why you're denied. 1:08:38.640 --> 1:08:41.519 You don't know what the counter The dealer does not know. 1:08:41.640 --> 1:08:46.640 They just know it's like you know, green light, you 1:08:46.680 --> 1:08:50.559 know yellow their delay red light. You know, you're denied, 1:08:50.760 --> 1:08:52.639 and they don't know why you're denied. And they all 1:08:52.800 --> 1:08:55.040 and so they can't tell the customer why they're denied. 1:08:55.280 --> 1:08:57.280 They can just give them information that if they wanted 1:08:57.280 --> 1:09:01.799 to file and appeal with the FBI with NIXT, which 1:09:02.320 --> 1:09:04.640 you can do if you think it was you know, 1:09:04.800 --> 1:09:08.200 they're mistaken, and some small number of times that they 1:09:08.240 --> 1:09:11.840 are because primarily in name check and so you know, 1:09:12.000 --> 1:09:14.000 somebody can have a similar name, similar data birth with 1:09:14.080 --> 1:09:17.720 somebody else and and they think, you know, this is 1:09:18.560 --> 1:09:21.719 John Doe a not John Dobe. Your buddy Kevin Murphy 1:09:21.720 --> 1:09:24.240 wanted up on a no fly list because mother Kevin Murphy. 1:09:24.280 --> 1:09:26.599 Exactly how hell Kevin Murphy. They're gonna be running out 1:09:26.600 --> 1:09:31.559 as I don't know, but so uh, but so the 1:09:31.640 --> 1:09:35.080 FBI will tell a t F Okay, there was and 1:09:35.120 --> 1:09:38.880 then a t f UM. You know, uh, it's their 1:09:38.960 --> 1:09:41.519 job to go out and track these people down. It's 1:09:41.600 --> 1:09:45.200 a yes because at the federal crime and if the 1:09:45.240 --> 1:09:48.760 firearm was transferred the persons supportive person so that so 1:09:48.840 --> 1:09:51.680 but then it becomes a resource issue. A lot of 1:09:51.720 --> 1:09:57.720 times what I've heard is, you know the let's say, uh, 1:09:57.760 --> 1:10:00.280 this is the example is given told to me. You 1:10:00.400 --> 1:10:05.160 got an eighty year old grandfather buying a gun to 1:10:05.200 --> 1:10:08.639 give to a gift to their grandchild or something like that. 1:10:09.720 --> 1:10:12.720 And you know that when they tipped that cow over 1:10:12.840 --> 1:10:16.680 in college and in nineteen fifty three, that was a 1:10:16.720 --> 1:10:19.600 felony under state law, right and they were convicted of 1:10:19.600 --> 1:10:21.799 a felony. They didn't even know it was a felony, 1:10:21.840 --> 1:10:24.439 and so they get denied. You know, are you going 1:10:24.520 --> 1:10:28.600 to prosecute that person? Is that worth using the prosecutor resources? 1:10:28.960 --> 1:10:31.120 So a lot of times h said, look, just give 1:10:31.200 --> 1:10:33.679 us the gun back. You can't buy guns your private 1:10:33.800 --> 1:10:37.800 person um and that sort of situation. Or you're the 1:10:37.880 --> 1:10:41.280 United States Attorney's Office, you have limited resources. You want 1:10:41.280 --> 1:10:43.400 to have the most bang for your buck if you 1:10:43.439 --> 1:10:47.280 will impact on reducing violent crime. They look at that, 1:10:47.360 --> 1:10:49.680 and I'm a former prosecutor, so I can understand this. 1:10:49.760 --> 1:10:53.360 Look I got I'm working, you know, on convicting these 1:10:53.360 --> 1:10:56.720 gang bangers who are selling drugs and involved in shootings 1:10:56.720 --> 1:11:00.520 and such. Or am I gonna go after Grandpa um 1:11:00.560 --> 1:11:04.680 because he didn't realize, you know, forty years ago that 1:11:04.800 --> 1:11:07.080 was a felony. How are you going to use your resources? 1:11:07.120 --> 1:11:09.439 Which is more important to impact in public safety? I 1:11:09.439 --> 1:11:12.559 mean that's a very extreme example, but but there are people. 1:11:13.000 --> 1:11:15.320 You know, if it's a convicted felon that's a bad 1:11:15.360 --> 1:11:17.840 guy and they bought a gun, those are the people 1:11:18.040 --> 1:11:21.320 they would get prosecuted. Um. So it just kind of 1:11:21.360 --> 1:11:24.400 depends on why they were denied. And you know what, 1:11:24.560 --> 1:11:27.200 what's the best use of limited resources? I mean, the 1:11:27.200 --> 1:11:31.000 government is no different than anybody else. You've got limited resources. 1:11:31.000 --> 1:11:34.560 You have to make decisions to maximize the resources to 1:11:34.600 --> 1:11:39.759 have the most impact. Can you explain where background checks 1:11:39.840 --> 1:11:42.080 that you that you get when you go, like you 1:11:42.200 --> 1:11:45.680 go into a you know, sports and warehouse by a 1:11:45.760 --> 1:11:48.080 rifle off the counter, you do a background check. Can 1:11:48.120 --> 1:11:53.680 you explain what people say when they when people talk 1:11:53.680 --> 1:11:58.280 about the need for universal background checks and where within 1:11:58.479 --> 1:12:02.559 universal background checks it like, what's your perspective on it 1:12:02.560 --> 1:12:04.360 and where in that you have where in that you 1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:08.360 have a problem. So if you ever buy firearm from 1:12:08.360 --> 1:12:11.960 a licensed dealer, that's there's a background check that's required 1:12:11.960 --> 1:12:16.360 by law m Brady Act. And you know, we the 1:12:16.400 --> 1:12:19.280 industry supports that. Actually, the idea of the background check 1:12:19.320 --> 1:12:22.320 at the retail point of purchase from a licensee, it 1:12:22.360 --> 1:12:26.040 was an industry idea long before the Brady your your 1:12:26.160 --> 1:12:30.160 organization supports. Yes, it was an industry idea, like because 1:12:30.240 --> 1:12:34.479 the deal we don't want dealers inadvertently selling guns to 1:12:34.680 --> 1:12:38.599 primitive persons, right, we can all agree it's we don't 1:12:38.600 --> 1:12:43.759 want primitive people getting firearms. What we have seen, however, 1:12:43.920 --> 1:12:46.880 is that the background check system that exists now has 1:12:46.920 --> 1:12:51.800 got some pretty significant problems. And the background checks are 1:12:51.840 --> 1:12:56.360 not always accurate, and they're not always the data. I mean, 1:12:57.960 --> 1:12:59.960 the data in the background check system is only as 1:13:00.000 --> 1:13:02.400 good as the data that's put in and if data 1:13:02.479 --> 1:13:05.439 is not put in right. So look at Sutherland Springs, 1:13:05.720 --> 1:13:09.920 there was a guy who was a primitive person, like 1:13:10.080 --> 1:13:17.080 four three or four different ways. Uh, yes, felony conviction. 1:13:17.160 --> 1:13:21.479 This aren't only discharged to domestic violence. And who do 1:13:21.479 --> 1:13:23.360 you say four different ways like he had like he 1:13:23.520 --> 1:13:27.880 was dependent, arrived independently four times, and he was involunt 1:13:28.040 --> 1:13:31.519 involuntarily committed to mental health facility and the Air Force 1:13:31.800 --> 1:13:33.719 and all of d o D, not just the Air Force. 1:13:33.760 --> 1:13:36.280 He happened to be up in the Air Force at 1:13:36.280 --> 1:13:39.559 the time. We're not putting the records into the FBI 1:13:39.640 --> 1:13:45.760 background check system of out of a like out of 1:13:45.760 --> 1:13:56.120 a intellectual opposition of just and and it's frustrating because 1:13:57.240 --> 1:14:02.000 I mean, there were apparently i G reports talking about 1:14:02.000 --> 1:14:05.360 this in the past. Nicks was aware that the d 1:14:05.479 --> 1:14:07.880 o D wasn't putting in records, so that guy was 1:14:07.920 --> 1:14:12.160 able to buy fires four times, going to a store 1:14:12.280 --> 1:14:15.360 or license dealer, buying again, passing a background check four 1:14:15.400 --> 1:14:18.760 times because those records were not in the system. East 1:14:18.760 --> 1:14:20.680 time that retailer at the counters want to make sure 1:14:20.720 --> 1:14:22.240 that he's doing the right thing, and he's running the 1:14:22.280 --> 1:14:25.360 background check on this guy who should never want a firearm, 1:14:25.479 --> 1:14:27.880 and he's coming back clean. He has no idea the 1:14:27.880 --> 1:14:32.519 deal was relying upon that background check, right, so um so, 1:14:33.920 --> 1:14:38.360 and then after the tragedy in Newtown, you know, we 1:14:38.600 --> 1:14:42.520 launched an initiative and there have been some federal legislation 1:14:42.560 --> 1:14:44.639 in the past, but it really just didn't wasn't getting 1:14:44.680 --> 1:14:48.439 the job done. We started NSSF, that is, started the 1:14:48.479 --> 1:14:53.080 Fixed Knicks campaign and on the industry's nickel, we went 1:14:53.120 --> 1:14:56.759 around and got the law change. Now in sixteen states 1:14:56.760 --> 1:14:59.720 were still working on more UH. Montana is one of them, 1:15:00.040 --> 1:15:03.679 me right, Wyoming, New Hampshire, Montana, Wyoming are the three 1:15:03.680 --> 1:15:06.880 states that we're still targeting and then we want to 1:15:06.920 --> 1:15:09.200 make improvements. But we've we changed a law in sixteen 1:15:09.200 --> 1:15:15.640 states UH to require the states to put disqualifying records 1:15:16.160 --> 1:15:19.920 into the FBI database. Primarily what was really missing was 1:15:19.960 --> 1:15:23.320 mental health records because states were not reporting mental health 1:15:23.320 --> 1:15:25.920 records because of privacy laws or states we had to 1:15:25.960 --> 1:15:28.840 change state law because they weren't allowed to under state law, 1:15:29.360 --> 1:15:32.400 and the federal government cannot compel under federal law of 1:15:32.439 --> 1:15:36.200 the states to give the information that they can't, right, 1:15:36.320 --> 1:15:39.479 so it has to be done, you know, voluntarily by 1:15:39.479 --> 1:15:42.200 the states. So we got the law change in sixteen states. 1:15:42.240 --> 1:15:45.479 We increased the disqualifying mental health records in the database, 1:15:45.520 --> 1:15:49.000 the f BAD database by two They went from about 1:15:49.000 --> 1:15:52.680 one point seven million to five million. And again there 1:15:52.680 --> 1:15:56.439 are still states that UM are not submitting, and we're 1:15:56.439 --> 1:15:58.400 going back and looking at the states, like did they 1:15:58.439 --> 1:16:01.240 just put do a big up once and then have 1:16:01.360 --> 1:16:04.320 they continue to report as they should. So we're very 1:16:04.360 --> 1:16:07.120 proud of that, Like we did that, the industry did that. 1:16:07.280 --> 1:16:10.839 Now our view is you have to fix the background 1:16:10.880 --> 1:16:14.280 sex system. Hence NICKS is the national instant criminal background 1:16:14.360 --> 1:16:18.320 check system NICKS, and I see us fixed next to us. 1:16:18.320 --> 1:16:21.519 It makes no sense to start expanding, you know, private 1:16:21.520 --> 1:16:23.880 party background checks when you you have a system that 1:16:23.920 --> 1:16:26.680 needs to be fixed in the first instance, right Like 1:16:26.760 --> 1:16:28.800 that we think is where the focus should be. Let's 1:16:29.200 --> 1:16:32.439 get their records into the database, uh and fix it 1:16:33.120 --> 1:16:35.760 before you have a conversation about expanding it, because you're 1:16:35.800 --> 1:16:38.719 just gonna have more bad background checks and that doesn't 1:16:38.720 --> 1:16:42.639 benefit anybody. Um. So, and there there are other issues 1:16:42.720 --> 1:16:46.120 with the legislation. We have concerns about we UM, but 1:16:46.360 --> 1:16:48.640 we think the focus be on fixing NIX and we 1:16:48.800 --> 1:16:51.759 the industry have been doing that. And then after sezzle 1:16:51.800 --> 1:16:54.920 In Springs sent in a corn and introduced the Fixed 1:16:54.960 --> 1:16:59.240 Knicks act UM named after our program that wasn't by accident. 1:17:00.080 --> 1:17:02.200 We advocated for that bill to pass and it did 1:17:02.240 --> 1:17:06.480 and signed by President Trump, which requires all federal agencies 1:17:06.560 --> 1:17:10.040 to submit records. UM. And we've been talking to Knicks 1:17:10.080 --> 1:17:15.200 and that's happening. UM. But even there are some some um, 1:17:15.240 --> 1:17:17.439 some parts of the federal government were dragging their feed 1:17:17.439 --> 1:17:20.200 and getting the records submitted. Maybe dragging if it's not 1:17:20.200 --> 1:17:23.160 the right word. They weren't as timely as we'd like. 1:17:23.240 --> 1:17:26.479 I think some of it is just again a resource issue. 1:17:28.960 --> 1:17:31.800 And then it gives grant money. It makes grant money 1:17:31.800 --> 1:17:36.719 available to the states, um to help them get their 1:17:36.840 --> 1:17:42.000 records into the system. Uh. There's UM a report I 1:17:42.000 --> 1:17:45.439 think we'll be coming out fairly soon about a year 1:17:45.640 --> 1:17:48.760 anniversary of the bill, to see what progress was made. 1:17:48.760 --> 1:17:50.519 But again, we we talked to Knicks on a regular 1:17:50.520 --> 1:17:52.840 basis and they say, yeah, the records are starting are 1:17:52.880 --> 1:17:55.160 coming in. That d O d S put the records 1:17:55.200 --> 1:17:58.160 in other federal agencies that had records that had not 1:17:58.200 --> 1:18:01.880 been reporting or now minting. So we're very proud of 1:18:01.920 --> 1:18:05.720 that legislation. You know, we advocated for it actually ended 1:18:05.760 --> 1:18:10.080 up passing with more Democrat co sponsors, the Republican GHO sponsors, 1:18:10.600 --> 1:18:15.400 and the lead Democrat co sponsor was Senator Murphy from Connecticut. 1:18:15.600 --> 1:18:19.720 Hardly a fan of the firearms industry, even though the 1:18:19.760 --> 1:18:25.160 industry was founded in Connecticut. Along history you created the 1:18:25.200 --> 1:18:29.040 Connecticut's economy and NSSF is still located there, as are 1:18:29.120 --> 1:18:32.040 some major manufacturers. But so we're very proud of that. 1:18:32.080 --> 1:18:34.040 And I think what that shows is, you know, there 1:18:34.080 --> 1:18:36.920 can be common ground on these issues, and we think 1:18:37.320 --> 1:18:39.519 this is a great example of that. As I said, 1:18:39.520 --> 1:18:41.679 there are other issues with the bill we have concerns about. 1:18:41.720 --> 1:18:45.480 But what would would universal background checks has normally understood 1:18:46.000 --> 1:18:54.120 with that prevent a person from inheriting you know, like 1:18:54.160 --> 1:18:56.360 I never bought I didn't buy a new firearm till 1:18:56.360 --> 1:18:58.280 as in my thirties, right like you would just like 1:18:58.360 --> 1:19:01.120 I just I for long time hume with my grand 1:19:01.240 --> 1:19:05.519 like had ownership of my grandfather's shotgun. Would would universal 1:19:05.520 --> 1:19:08.519 background checks, as a discuss, prevent the like you from 1:19:08.520 --> 1:19:12.680 getting a gun from your parents, no without doing a 1:19:12.680 --> 1:19:18.000 background check. So the bills allow for and it's changed 1:19:18.040 --> 1:19:20.920 over time. Is iterations have been introduced, like to allow 1:19:20.960 --> 1:19:24.280 a transfer within the family right father to son, grandfather 1:19:25.080 --> 1:19:30.240 to grandchild, um, would not require background check. UM. But 1:19:30.280 --> 1:19:35.639 there's so a couple of the issues with the ideas first, well, 1:19:36.120 --> 1:19:39.880 not necessarily in order, but one big issue is that 1:19:40.000 --> 1:19:44.760 universal background checks does it's not enforceable unless you have 1:19:44.880 --> 1:19:49.200 national registration, and the Department of Justice has acknowledged that 1:19:49.400 --> 1:19:53.559 in a written document. Um that it only works uh 1:19:53.600 --> 1:19:57.439 if there's national registration and that too many Second Amendment 1:19:57.439 --> 1:20:04.520 supporters isn't is just unacceptable and federal law doesn't allow registration. Um, 1:20:04.560 --> 1:20:06.240 so how do you you know, like so if you 1:20:06.280 --> 1:20:08.479 can enforce it, and what's you know you make there 1:20:08.479 --> 1:20:13.519 are what's the point? Right? Second is uh, you know, 1:20:13.720 --> 1:20:17.120 studies by the Department of Justice demonstrate that, you know, 1:20:17.240 --> 1:20:22.280 bad guys are not getting guns, you know, from licenses. 1:20:22.320 --> 1:20:24.519 They're stealing them, that's like the number one source, or 1:20:24.520 --> 1:20:26.599 they're just you know, trading them for drugs and things 1:20:26.640 --> 1:20:30.720 like that. Colorado passed universal background checks. There was this 1:20:31.080 --> 1:20:35.120 um what we call the myth con control groups were claiming, 1:20:35.720 --> 1:20:40.120 based on a very flawed, uh discredited study, that of 1:20:40.120 --> 1:20:43.479 all firems transfers are private party and with no background 1:20:43.560 --> 1:20:46.920 check and that's how bad guys are getting guns. Even 1:20:46.960 --> 1:20:50.680 the authors of that study said this is ignore it. 1:20:50.680 --> 1:20:53.960 It's no good. It's a bad study. Colorado passed universal 1:20:54.000 --> 1:20:59.320 background checks and saw not at increase about So this 1:20:59.479 --> 1:21:01.719 this idea of that you know, there are just guns 1:21:01.720 --> 1:21:05.759 going all over the place without background checks. Colorado demonstrates 1:21:05.800 --> 1:21:08.200 that that's not really the case. It used to be 1:21:08.240 --> 1:21:11.080 the gun show loop, the so called gun show loophole. 1:21:11.280 --> 1:21:14.320 The reality about gun shows is that, you know, the 1:21:14.400 --> 1:21:19.080 vast overwhelming majority of people that are selling firms at 1:21:19.080 --> 1:21:23.080 a gun show are licensed dealers. Background checks. Seventy three 1:21:23.080 --> 1:21:26.560 in the background check take place t J surveys of 1:21:26.600 --> 1:21:29.800 prison inmates incarcerated for firms related defenses. Where did you 1:21:29.800 --> 1:21:32.880 get the gun gun shows? Less than one percent? So 1:21:33.080 --> 1:21:36.280 that's just not really And then it became the internet loophole, 1:21:36.520 --> 1:21:39.040 idea that you can buy guns on the internet. Well, 1:21:39.040 --> 1:21:42.400 you can advertise guns on the internet, assuming Facebook or 1:21:42.400 --> 1:21:45.000 others will let you, which they don't. But you know, 1:21:45.000 --> 1:21:48.560 if your license dealer, it's still a face to face transaction. 1:21:48.600 --> 1:21:51.800 With seventy three in the background check, all it is is, 1:21:51.880 --> 1:21:53.880 you know, you may get pay with a credit card 1:21:53.920 --> 1:21:56.920 and then they're gonna get shipped to your local dealer, 1:21:56.960 --> 1:22:00.360 go through a gunbroker dot com. Gunbroker requires anybody using 1:22:00.439 --> 1:22:03.519 that service to that the guns transferred to inn FFL. 1:22:03.920 --> 1:22:07.439 That's that's their own policy and and a lot of 1:22:07.479 --> 1:22:13.439 those sites exist do that. So that's one problem. Another 1:22:13.520 --> 1:22:16.800 problem from the industry's point of view is you're you're 1:22:16.960 --> 1:22:20.360 asking these retailers to perform essentially a government service for 1:22:20.439 --> 1:22:24.080 the government, right and in some states that require background 1:22:24.160 --> 1:22:27.800 checks California, the dealer has no choice. They must do 1:22:27.840 --> 1:22:30.519 it right, and it caps the fee. And guess what, 1:22:30.880 --> 1:22:33.240 the fee is so low that they lose money on 1:22:33.280 --> 1:22:36.559 the transaction. They have got to spend time, energy, labor rights, 1:22:36.560 --> 1:22:39.040 a process of background check for a private party sale. 1:22:40.040 --> 1:22:42.120 Uh and and they end up losing money. But they 1:22:42.120 --> 1:22:47.280 have no choice in California. So that's that's unfair. Um. 1:22:47.400 --> 1:22:50.840 We've seen other states cap the fee. Um. And that's 1:22:50.920 --> 1:22:52.840 you know, if you're gonna let them, if they're gonna 1:22:52.880 --> 1:22:54.639 do this, that they should just be able to charge 1:22:54.640 --> 1:22:56.720 with the market will bear. I mean, it's America, you know, 1:22:58.360 --> 1:23:01.559 the government should be regulating that price. In our point 1:23:01.560 --> 1:23:05.519 of view, Another problem we see is that there's no 1:23:05.600 --> 1:23:10.400 liability protections for the retailer. So you know, Yanni comes 1:23:10.400 --> 1:23:12.960 in with the gun he wants to sell to you. Um, 1:23:13.000 --> 1:23:15.080 the dealer, I take it in I've got to log 1:23:15.120 --> 1:23:18.719 it into my acquisition record, right, I do the background 1:23:18.800 --> 1:23:22.439 check to you, you leave, and then there's an accident 1:23:22.479 --> 1:23:24.680 and then you sue me. So now I got to 1:23:24.720 --> 1:23:27.000 defend a lawsuit for a gun that I didn't sell 1:23:27.040 --> 1:23:30.040 from my inventory. And guess what my insurance company is 1:23:30.040 --> 1:23:32.160 gonna say, you didn't sell that gun from your inventory. 1:23:32.160 --> 1:23:37.799 There's no coverage. Or I make a mistake in the record, 1:23:39.400 --> 1:23:42.880 a t F comes in and finds a violation of 1:23:42.920 --> 1:23:48.120 my paperwork, I can now potentially lose my license because 1:23:48.280 --> 1:23:52.240 of course, have said a single violation of the record 1:23:52.320 --> 1:23:54.840 keeping requirements, a single willf of violation, you can lose 1:23:54.840 --> 1:23:58.360 your license. So here, I'm gonna lose my license for 1:23:58.400 --> 1:24:00.920 a record keeping error on a gun I didn't even 1:24:00.960 --> 1:24:04.320 tell my inventory. So here looks money on it, and 1:24:04.360 --> 1:24:06.720 you lost. So if it comes to another issue, I 1:24:07.240 --> 1:24:09.960 thank you for playing. So so again, let's look at 1:24:10.000 --> 1:24:12.639 the same as. So Larry is gonna be that FFL. 1:24:12.720 --> 1:24:15.640 He's gonna form that transfer and Johannest comes in with 1:24:15.680 --> 1:24:18.800 a gun. He wants to transfer it over. What kind 1:24:18.840 --> 1:24:21.160 of gun you're handing over? Honest, he ruined one of mine. 1:24:21.200 --> 1:24:22.800 Let's say he's trying to sell that. He's trying to 1:24:22.840 --> 1:24:25.000 sell the ruined gun for for twenty bucks in the 1:24:25.040 --> 1:24:27.760 case of a case of beer. So he turns that 1:24:27.920 --> 1:24:30.680 in the background check is run and uh, and it 1:24:30.680 --> 1:24:33.280 turns out that Larry's running the background checks onto both 1:24:33.320 --> 1:24:35.880 of you and you and you both pop as prohibited. 1:24:36.600 --> 1:24:37.960 Now what do I do? Now? What does he do? 1:24:38.360 --> 1:24:41.000 The dilemma of the double denial. So he's got he's 1:24:41.000 --> 1:24:43.360 got a he's got a basically a hot gun that 1:24:43.439 --> 1:24:45.719 he doesn't want to have, and he knows he can't 1:24:45.720 --> 1:24:47.519 hand it back to either one of you, can't transfer 1:24:47.600 --> 1:24:49.680 to you who intends to buy it because you're prohibited, 1:24:49.880 --> 1:24:51.559 and can't hand it back to you because it turns 1:24:51.560 --> 1:24:55.960 out you're prohibited. What does he do now? Citizens rest? 1:24:56.280 --> 1:24:58.640 So now he's got to go to court with with 1:24:58.640 --> 1:25:00.160 with a guy you know that a shape do you? 1:25:00.160 --> 1:25:02.200 And usually and he's just handed you one gun that 1:25:02.320 --> 1:25:06.800 he's he's the dealer that has um I have to 1:25:06.800 --> 1:25:09.439 go to court and file a lawsuits called an interplet 1:25:10.240 --> 1:25:13.160 and and give the gun to the court and say, look, 1:25:13.200 --> 1:25:16.599 I don't have ownership interests that are titling this. These 1:25:16.600 --> 1:25:19.120 two guys, you you court figure it out. I'm out 1:25:19.120 --> 1:25:21.600 of here, or you gotta go try to convince the 1:25:21.720 --> 1:25:24.280 local police department to take the rifle or whatever the 1:25:24.320 --> 1:25:26.600 firearm is. And what are they gonna say, Daddy, I 1:25:26.640 --> 1:25:29.840 don't know any to do with this? Not my problem, Yeah, 1:25:30.880 --> 1:25:35.400 because what are they going to do with it? You 1:25:35.560 --> 1:25:38.439 have to find somebody else to transfer the gun to. 1:25:38.960 --> 1:25:42.559 There's a lot of details about it today, Uh, because 1:25:42.600 --> 1:25:45.240 don't know what hadn't thought about it. It sounds great 1:25:45.280 --> 1:25:47.519 in theory, it really does. But once you start digging 1:25:47.560 --> 1:25:49.559 into it and then it starts to well, how do 1:25:49.600 --> 1:25:51.960 you how do you make this work? Yeah? My resistance 1:25:52.000 --> 1:25:54.200 to it, My resistance to it was based largely on 1:25:54.360 --> 1:25:58.800 how I know that. Um, how I know that like 1:25:59.000 --> 1:26:03.280 in my family, in my circle and my world, how 1:26:03.439 --> 1:26:09.240 like law abiding people, uh, you know, how we do 1:26:09.280 --> 1:26:11.800 our business, go about our business right, and so they 1:26:11.840 --> 1:26:13.120 look at I never looked at it from I never 1:26:13.160 --> 1:26:15.519 looked at it from dealer industry perspective. It was just 1:26:15.560 --> 1:26:19.439 looking at like just our common practices and ways in 1:26:19.439 --> 1:26:25.040 which they would be upset and kind of destroyed. But 1:26:25.160 --> 1:26:27.840 without you know, without really knowing the details of from 1:26:27.880 --> 1:26:32.880 the from the sales perspective. And again you do you 1:26:32.920 --> 1:26:35.599 do a private party background check. But if the background 1:26:35.680 --> 1:26:40.360 check database is inaccurate and incomplete, what have you accomplished? 1:26:40.760 --> 1:26:43.400 Why don't we work on getting the records into the 1:26:43.400 --> 1:26:46.040 system that should be there in the first place. Antana 1:26:46.080 --> 1:26:48.120 needs to change their law. I love Montana, but you 1:26:48.120 --> 1:26:49.680 know they got to change the law. And you know 1:26:49.720 --> 1:26:53.920 the and the what we found was I'll give you 1:26:54.000 --> 1:26:57.519 a real world example from our Fixed Next campaign. The 1:26:57.680 --> 1:27:02.439 Washington Navy are shooting right of place. Several people were killed. 1:27:03.640 --> 1:27:07.839 Turns out, as is often the case in these terrible events, 1:27:08.400 --> 1:27:15.320 the shooter was mentally ill, right, paranoid, schizophrenic. He um 1:27:15.320 --> 1:27:20.160 purchased a gun, a pump shotgun from a dealer in 1:27:20.320 --> 1:27:23.960 Virginia where he lived, past the background check. Um, and 1:27:24.040 --> 1:27:26.680 that's the firearm he used, and he killed a lot 1:27:26.680 --> 1:27:30.400 of people. Not long before he purchased the fire arm, 1:27:30.400 --> 1:27:33.360 he had been in Rhode Island on some work assignment 1:27:34.080 --> 1:27:37.040 and was like off his rocker, and the police get 1:27:37.040 --> 1:27:39.800 called and they take him to a hospital. He was 1:27:39.920 --> 1:27:44.519 not involuntarily committed in Rhode Island, but let's assume he 1:27:44.600 --> 1:27:48.599 had been involuntary committed. Now he's a prohibitive person. Well, 1:27:48.640 --> 1:27:52.360 at some point he gets out, it goes back to Virginia. 1:27:53.640 --> 1:27:56.839 Rhode Island at the time did not put the records 1:27:56.920 --> 1:27:59.479 into next so he would have gotten out of Rhode Island, 1:28:00.120 --> 1:28:04.040 back to Virginia, gone to the dealer, bought that shotgun, 1:28:04.080 --> 1:28:06.280 and passed the background check because Rhode Island didn't put 1:28:06.280 --> 1:28:09.200 the records in. We were working on Rhode Island to 1:28:09.200 --> 1:28:10.720 try to get them to change the law when the 1:28:10.760 --> 1:28:14.960 Washington Navy are shooting occurred and they weren't gonna do it. 1:28:15.000 --> 1:28:18.800 They were gonna study it, which is lobby code for 1:28:18.920 --> 1:28:21.320 like kill the bill. Right, they were gonna go study it. 1:28:21.320 --> 1:28:24.200 They weren't gonna pass the law to change it to 1:28:24.280 --> 1:28:27.080 require Rhodon for the records. We went back to Rhodeland 1:28:27.080 --> 1:28:29.479 and said, look what happened, and we walked him through 1:28:29.840 --> 1:28:33.599 this is exactly what we're talking about. Within twenty four hours, 1:28:33.640 --> 1:28:35.960 at passed the bill. Rhode Island now puts the records 1:28:35.960 --> 1:28:41.280 into the system. Industry did that. Nobody else. I'm really 1:28:41.280 --> 1:28:45.000 eager to get onto Sunday Hunting and lead AMO, but uh, 1:28:45.280 --> 1:28:49.439 stay on this for a second. Are there are their 1:28:49.560 --> 1:28:52.920 Second Amendment Advocate I'm not asked. I know the answer 1:28:53.000 --> 1:28:55.000 to this, but give me their perspective. There are Second 1:28:55.040 --> 1:28:59.400 amenber advocates though, who are who presumably are uneasy with 1:28:59.439 --> 1:29:03.040 Fixed Nicks. Yes, there there was. What what's that argument 1:29:03.040 --> 1:29:05.080 there that it's like a it's like a government imposition 1:29:05.120 --> 1:29:11.320 on your right. Well, there's a small segment um within 1:29:11.360 --> 1:29:14.160 the Second Amendment community doesn't think there should be background checks. 1:29:14.720 --> 1:29:18.920 We happen not to agree with that. The argument that 1:29:18.960 --> 1:29:21.559 we heard an opposition to the Fixed next legislation, or 1:29:21.600 --> 1:29:24.519 that we hear when work. The issue in the States is, 1:29:25.360 --> 1:29:30.200 you know, uh that the people who aren't prohibited their 1:29:30.240 --> 1:29:32.040 records are going to get into the system, and then 1:29:32.080 --> 1:29:36.200 people are going to be denied, um, the ability to 1:29:36.240 --> 1:29:38.800 purchase a fire when they're not a prohibited person. But 1:29:38.840 --> 1:29:42.599 there is an appeal process um that works very well. 1:29:42.680 --> 1:29:46.840 In fact, NIX is just substantially improved that they demonstrated 1:29:46.920 --> 1:29:49.680 for us when we went to visit them to the 1:29:49.760 --> 1:29:54.519 end of October. So and nothing in Fixed NIX is 1:29:54.560 --> 1:29:56.920 about expanding. In fact, we're very clear about that. We're 1:29:56.920 --> 1:29:59.880 not looking to expand who is prohibited. We just want 1:29:59.880 --> 1:30:03.480 the records of those that are under current law prohibited 1:30:03.640 --> 1:30:07.439 put into the system, so the dealer knows that when 1:30:07.439 --> 1:30:10.839 they transfer the firearm, they can rely upon the accuracy 1:30:10.840 --> 1:30:13.960 of the background check, so they're not selling a gun 1:30:14.439 --> 1:30:17.720 transferring a gun to a prohibited person. And either the 1:30:17.720 --> 1:30:23.080 fixed next legislation passed overwhelmingly seventy eight co sponsors in 1:30:23.080 --> 1:30:25.920 the Senate. You couldn't get seventy eight senators to sign 1:30:25.920 --> 1:30:29.000 a birthday card, and they all got on this bill. 1:30:29.760 --> 1:30:31.680 Those who are pro and those were against. Is the 1:30:31.720 --> 1:30:37.360 Wilderness Act? Uh yeah, after twenty years of trying to 1:30:37.360 --> 1:30:41.000 get it through and the one descending vote thought it 1:30:41.040 --> 1:30:44.200 wasn't didn't go far enough. Those days are gone, man, 1:30:44.720 --> 1:30:47.080 and get a bunch of people to something. Maybe some 1:30:47.160 --> 1:30:50.840 day will return to that, But I don't know. You know, 1:30:50.960 --> 1:30:54.400 a lot of non controversial legislation passes on unanimous consent. 1:30:54.520 --> 1:30:57.040 I mean, I think if if we tried to pass 1:30:57.080 --> 1:31:00.320 the Lands Package at the end of last Congress on 1:31:00.520 --> 1:31:04.479 unanimous consent, one one or two senators blocked unanimous consent 1:31:04.880 --> 1:31:11.479 and there was no time left unanimous um. It was 1:31:11.520 --> 1:31:15.040 Senator Lee and Senator Senator Lee, and there was a 1:31:15.120 --> 1:31:17.320 very heated exchange on the floor of the Senate between 1:31:18.200 --> 1:31:25.160 UH Senator Murkowski, Senator Gardner, uh and and UH Senator Cantwell, 1:31:25.640 --> 1:31:29.439 who were the primary backers of the legislation. And there's, 1:31:29.640 --> 1:31:31.640 as you know, lots and lots in that bill, not 1:31:32.120 --> 1:31:36.479 just the range bill, which is our primary focus. But 1:31:36.600 --> 1:31:39.360 they didn't like, uh, you know, a provision. He wanted 1:31:39.360 --> 1:31:41.960 the language change, and he blocked it because you can 1:31:42.000 --> 1:31:44.160 do that in the Senate and one person can stand 1:31:44.240 --> 1:31:48.559 up in blocking animous consent um. But so okay. So 1:31:48.640 --> 1:31:51.160 now they're doing the bill again the exact same language 1:31:51.280 --> 1:31:55.440 and running it through the you know, the parliamentary process, 1:31:55.439 --> 1:31:57.920 which takes a while. But he won't be you know, 1:31:57.960 --> 1:32:02.280 he may offer amendments and uh, you know those some 1:32:02.360 --> 1:32:04.920 mementos will either get voted on or not. Um if 1:32:04.920 --> 1:32:08.240 he offers him and uh, but he can't. I don't 1:32:08.240 --> 1:32:10.320 see how we can stop a bill passing the Senate. 1:32:10.560 --> 1:32:13.479 What happens on the House now that the Democrats are 1:32:13.800 --> 1:32:16.960 are in control, whether we'll move in house natural resources 1:32:16.960 --> 1:32:19.960 remains to be seen. I hope it will because Chairman 1:32:20.000 --> 1:32:23.360 Garhovo when he was ranking in the last Congress support 1:32:23.400 --> 1:32:27.360 of the package. So hopefully, UM, that hasn't changed. We'll 1:32:27.360 --> 1:32:34.080 see hopefully we'll see Sunday hunt really important. Yeah. I 1:32:36.160 --> 1:32:39.800 was glad to see um there were allies on this 1:32:39.840 --> 1:32:45.200 issue because it drives me crazy. And I but I 1:32:45.240 --> 1:32:47.720 see that you guys have like an industry perspective where 1:32:47.720 --> 1:32:50.519 I see that you you frame it around some economic factors. 1:32:51.040 --> 1:32:54.799 That's that's how we roll. I just frame it around 1:32:54.840 --> 1:32:57.479 like that. I just frame it around what I think, 1:32:59.640 --> 1:33:04.639 you know, just my vision of America when I at 1:33:04.960 --> 1:33:06.800 that if you can on a Sunday, you should be 1:33:06.840 --> 1:33:09.120 able to go home. I just pictured that like the 1:33:09.600 --> 1:33:15.360 fact that there are states where someone can't opt, where 1:33:15.360 --> 1:33:17.320 someone can't opt to hunt. On the side, you only 1:33:17.320 --> 1:33:21.720 got screwed by Sunday hunting laws recently over the uh 1:33:22.080 --> 1:33:25.640 the Christmas and New Year holiday. I was in North Carolina, 1:33:26.479 --> 1:33:29.240 and I mean I was halfway into the truck and 1:33:29.439 --> 1:33:32.040 uh realize, I'm like, I'm better check on that sure 1:33:32.160 --> 1:33:36.280 enough privately and only. Yeah. Yeah, it's just it's the 1:33:36.320 --> 1:33:38.439 same way I live in Virginia, saying private land only 1:33:38.439 --> 1:33:43.760 on Sundays. So that launched the Sunday Hunting Initiative. We 1:33:43.840 --> 1:33:48.160 have partners in Corrational Sportsman's Foundation, their National Assembly of 1:33:48.200 --> 1:33:53.080 Sportsmen's Caucuses and r A s c I. Um, you know, 1:33:53.760 --> 1:33:58.000 or it's really the sort of team and most people 1:33:59.240 --> 1:34:01.840 in the country have no idea that there's these old 1:34:01.880 --> 1:34:06.240 colonial blue laws. Uh. And it was thirteen states. We've 1:34:06.280 --> 1:34:08.439 made progress, but all along the up and down the 1:34:08.439 --> 1:34:13.240 East coast, the original colonies. Basically, Um, there's no science 1:34:13.280 --> 1:34:17.160 behind it. You know, it's just was a vestige of 1:34:17.200 --> 1:34:19.840 colonial law. But but it was it was I have 1:34:20.000 --> 1:34:23.479 to um has to student. That had to do with 1:34:23.560 --> 1:34:27.439 like enforcing church attendance. Uh. It was religious based, you know, 1:34:27.479 --> 1:34:30.960 no alcohol, no hunting on Sundays, and so yeah, that's 1:34:30.960 --> 1:34:33.800 why it's interesting to see like very like to see 1:34:33.840 --> 1:34:39.519 deeply conservative leaning organizations in opposition to Sunday hunting because 1:34:39.560 --> 1:34:41.240 you feel like it would put them up against the 1:34:41.280 --> 1:34:45.200 thing where they're where they're like up against a sort 1:34:45.200 --> 1:34:49.200 of religious ruling. So every it's interesting. Um, and we 1:34:49.320 --> 1:34:52.840 made great progress on our Sunday hunting and it's really 1:34:52.880 --> 1:34:58.439 important because in those states, you know, effectively for many hunters, 1:34:58.439 --> 1:35:01.640 you're doubling the hunting season. If you're you're working on 1:35:02.000 --> 1:35:04.879 you work on Monday, Friday, Saturday. You gotta take Johnny 1:35:04.920 --> 1:35:07.360 to soccer, the game or whatever. You got the honey 1:35:07.360 --> 1:35:10.160 do list, you gotta you only have Sunday. You can't 1:35:10.200 --> 1:35:12.479 haunt on Sunday, so you don't hunt, and then you 1:35:12.520 --> 1:35:14.839 don't take Johnny hunting and you don't pass down the tradition. 1:35:14.880 --> 1:35:19.240 Now something like Pennsylvania, huge number of hunting licenses. Uh, 1:35:19.320 --> 1:35:23.240 there's no Sunday hunting in Pennsylvania. So you know, we 1:35:23.280 --> 1:35:28.200 started with Virginia, then West Virginia and Maryland and North Carolina, 1:35:28.280 --> 1:35:30.800 South Carolina. We actually got a build out a committee 1:35:30.840 --> 1:35:34.679 for the first time in the Pennsylvania Senate eight three 1:35:35.040 --> 1:35:40.080 yesterday yesterday. Is that's an enormous step forward for now. 1:35:40.360 --> 1:35:44.400 Is the opposition the religious community or the interesting thing 1:35:44.520 --> 1:35:48.479 is it is, uh the opposition varies from state to state. 1:35:48.720 --> 1:35:53.400 In Pennsylvania, the primary opposition is the Farm Bureau. In 1:35:53.600 --> 1:35:58.280 North Carolina it was the Christian right. I can't tell 1:35:58.320 --> 1:36:00.519 you why, they just know we don't do that in 1:36:00.560 --> 1:36:03.360 Pennsylvania just because we don't, just because we don't know, 1:36:03.439 --> 1:36:09.080 we don't. Uh So in Maine. Uh, oddly enough, one 1:36:09.120 --> 1:36:12.920 of the major forces in opposition is the guides. They 1:36:12.920 --> 1:36:14.880 don't want to work on Sunday. You don't have to 1:36:14.880 --> 1:36:16.920 work on Sunday. Don't was making you work on Sunday. 1:36:17.880 --> 1:36:20.200 I'm not kidding. So the farm Bureau that I don't 1:36:20.200 --> 1:36:28.080 want the In Pactsylvania, the farm Bureau would say, uh, 1:36:28.240 --> 1:36:32.240 you know, uh, the farmers don't want to be disturbed 1:36:32.240 --> 1:36:34.719 on Sunday because if you know, they don't want people 1:36:34.760 --> 1:36:37.599 coming on the land on Sunday. Or you know, if 1:36:37.640 --> 1:36:41.040 they shoot the deer one piece of property and it 1:36:41.040 --> 1:36:43.320 goes onto the farmer's property, they gotta they gotta get 1:36:43.320 --> 1:36:49.320 permission to go retrieve the deer. Right. So that but um, 1:36:49.360 --> 1:36:51.479 but it really wasn't a persuasive argument. We said we'll 1:36:51.520 --> 1:36:54.479 put well, we'll pay for signs. Do you can put 1:36:54.560 --> 1:36:57.080 up saying you know, no hunting. You know you can 1:36:57.080 --> 1:37:00.080 post no hunting on Sundays and you know, so a 1:37:00.160 --> 1:37:02.720 lot of times it's okay, private land, We'll just do 1:37:02.800 --> 1:37:05.559 private land to take whatever we can get or public land. 1:37:05.600 --> 1:37:09.280 And we got to change in North Carolina, you know, 1:37:10.120 --> 1:37:13.640 private land because the party argument we would encounter it 1:37:13.800 --> 1:37:18.400 be from like hikers or a questrian people like to 1:37:18.479 --> 1:37:20.800 ride their horses in public. You know, say, well, you 1:37:20.840 --> 1:37:23.719 know we don't want to get you know, accidentally shot 1:37:23.760 --> 1:37:25.920 by a hunter. You know, Well, it doesn't happen on 1:37:26.320 --> 1:37:29.960 you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. What makes 1:37:29.960 --> 1:37:32.320 you think it's gonna happen on Sunday. Well, that's our day. 1:37:32.360 --> 1:37:35.280 We should be our day. Um. So we you know, 1:37:35.280 --> 1:37:37.920 we sort of whatever we can get, you know, and 1:37:37.920 --> 1:37:40.280 then just go back and try again from more later. 1:37:40.400 --> 1:37:43.840 But we made great progress. Um. You know, yesterday's vote 1:37:43.840 --> 1:37:46.800 in Pennsylvania was it was an enormous step forward for us. 1:37:46.960 --> 1:37:49.760 Explain what happened there from one of our one of 1:37:49.760 --> 1:37:53.200 our guys, Brodie Henderson, he's Pennsylvania. We've got a couple 1:37:53.200 --> 1:37:55.599 of Pennsylvania gays we worked with. We talked about this 1:37:55.600 --> 1:37:58.160 all the time. So we were able finally to get 1:37:58.200 --> 1:38:00.080 a bill out a committee in the Senate eight to 1:38:00.200 --> 1:38:02.920 three in favor of, you know, giving the State Fishing 1:38:02.920 --> 1:38:08.519 Game Agency the authority will permit Sunday hunting, doesn't require 1:38:08.560 --> 1:38:14.160 I mean, the Commission wants it. They support it. They 1:38:14.200 --> 1:38:16.120 publicly come out and said they support it. So but 1:38:16.400 --> 1:38:18.519 to your earlier point, so one of the things we 1:38:18.600 --> 1:38:21.320 did his industry is to try to say, you know, 1:38:22.200 --> 1:38:25.640 that's access we want to pass on the tradition. You know, 1:38:26.280 --> 1:38:27.880 you can do all these other things on Sunday. You'll 1:38:27.880 --> 1:38:30.840 play golf, you can fish. You know, golf, by the way, 1:38:30.920 --> 1:38:33.080 is a four letter word. Those are not the birdies 1:38:33.160 --> 1:38:36.000 we think you should be shooting. You can go shooting, 1:38:37.160 --> 1:38:40.120 but you can't hunt. So but then part of what 1:38:40.200 --> 1:38:43.160 we did was to show the economic impact allowing Sunday 1:38:43.200 --> 1:38:47.400 hunting with and it's significant. Right, So you look at 1:38:47.439 --> 1:38:51.880 Pennsylvania and so what happens is if you're in New York, 1:38:52.640 --> 1:38:54.519 you won't go on a hunting trip on a weekend 1:38:55.240 --> 1:38:57.760 to Pennsylvania because you can only hunt on Saturday. Right, 1:38:57.760 --> 1:39:02.280 So Pennsylvania says that kind of an opportunity. New York 1:39:02.360 --> 1:39:04.720 ust Averigh frictions so high used averished factions and they've 1:39:04.720 --> 1:39:07.720 been shipped away at over time about I don't know, 1:39:07.760 --> 1:39:10.960 maybe ten years ago, we put a real focus on 1:39:11.640 --> 1:39:13.680 like how can we really what's the way we can 1:39:13.720 --> 1:39:18.519 really drive the needle on hunting and said it's it's changing, 1:39:18.720 --> 1:39:21.360 sunny honey laws on the East coast. And you know, 1:39:21.400 --> 1:39:25.479 we're making progress, not easy. We're still fighting into Maryland 1:39:25.600 --> 1:39:28.320 right now. Maryland is there are some counties and so 1:39:28.360 --> 1:39:30.479 now there's the push to finish up all the rest 1:39:30.520 --> 1:39:32.599 of the counties, to let the counties go, and it's 1:39:32.640 --> 1:39:34.840 it's that progression here and there. So used to be 1:39:34.840 --> 1:39:36.680 Maryland wouldn't even touch it, and now they were in 1:39:36.800 --> 1:39:38.920 county by county. We're pushing a little bit more and 1:39:38.920 --> 1:39:40.960 more as well. I mean they're pushing a part of 1:39:40.960 --> 1:39:43.440 that same Families a Field program. You're pushing the mentorship 1:39:43.479 --> 1:39:45.880 bills to try and allow so that way you can 1:39:45.960 --> 1:39:48.599 take your ten year old out hunting. Where you can 1:39:48.600 --> 1:39:50.640 take someone even an adult who wants to get out 1:39:50.640 --> 1:39:52.200 and hunt the first time, and they don't have to buy. 1:39:52.520 --> 1:39:54.720 It's kind of a try before you buy program. You 1:39:54.720 --> 1:39:56.960 can buy a license at a reduced rate as long 1:39:57.000 --> 1:39:58.880 as you're going out with someone who's gonna mentor you 1:39:58.960 --> 1:40:01.479 through that process. We did that in Michigan this fast 1:40:01.720 --> 1:40:04.000 spring and it was great. It was real nice. So 1:40:04.040 --> 1:40:07.120 we had some guys never been had never been hunting. 1:40:07.760 --> 1:40:13.559 We're curious about it, um, you know, for for a 1:40:13.640 --> 1:40:16.800 bunch of reasons. It was they lived in California. It 1:40:16.840 --> 1:40:18.519 was like a bunch of reasons that would have been 1:40:18.720 --> 1:40:22.519 hard for them to get through, just owners for them 1:40:22.560 --> 1:40:24.439 to like, hey, let's go hunting turkeys all of a 1:40:24.439 --> 1:40:27.759 sudden and then do hunter safety. But in this case, 1:40:27.840 --> 1:40:30.320 with a mentor program, you're able to you know, you're 1:40:30.520 --> 1:40:34.479 with them, you're physically next to each other, able to 1:40:34.479 --> 1:40:38.240 take them out on the first hunt, and which winds 1:40:38.320 --> 1:40:41.880 up being and that kind of relationship. I feel that 1:40:41.880 --> 1:40:45.240 that mentords standing next to each other relationship, its being 1:40:45.280 --> 1:40:50.080 like very educational. It's around even you know, around safety issues. 1:40:50.080 --> 1:40:52.280 In fact, I think if you're gonna have someone who 1:40:52.320 --> 1:40:57.559 if you're gonna have an experienced hunter with an inexperienced hunter, 1:40:57.720 --> 1:41:01.640 I feel that that time together is as instructive or 1:41:01.680 --> 1:41:05.280 probably more instructive at that phase and their journey than 1:41:06.360 --> 1:41:10.080 sitting through like right class, the incubation of a new hunter. 1:41:10.200 --> 1:41:12.960 You're you're teaching them the traditions, you're teaching them the rules, 1:41:13.000 --> 1:41:15.040 the left and right. So this is where you step, 1:41:15.080 --> 1:41:16.439 this is where you don't step. This is how you 1:41:16.479 --> 1:41:18.439 carry your rifle. This is when you load your rifle. 1:41:18.760 --> 1:41:20.680 This is when you don't have your rifle loaded. Those 1:41:20.680 --> 1:41:22.400 are all the things that we were we were taught 1:41:22.400 --> 1:41:24.240 by our folks when we don't want out and learned 1:41:24.479 --> 1:41:26.479 from the folks you taught us and and there's a 1:41:26.479 --> 1:41:27.880 little bit of a gap. We want to we want 1:41:27.880 --> 1:41:30.120 to kind of close. I mean, you know, someone's not 1:41:30.120 --> 1:41:32.599 gonna wake up one morning and say I think I'll 1:41:32.840 --> 1:41:36.000 try hunting. You wouldn't know the first thing right, how 1:41:36.040 --> 1:41:37.840 to get started. So people do do that and they 1:41:37.840 --> 1:41:44.320 struggle successful, but mostly you know that's the exception, right, 1:41:44.320 --> 1:41:48.680 people just say I don't play golf because I can 1:41:48.720 --> 1:41:50.920 go get a lesson right down the street. So mentoring 1:41:51.160 --> 1:41:55.280 is critical to passing the tradition and the heritage on. Yeah, 1:41:55.320 --> 1:41:57.160 I like, I like the program, and I think, you know, 1:41:57.400 --> 1:41:59.800 I notice to talk about And in this case, there 1:41:59.840 --> 1:42:02.920 was any age big factor one year. These guys were 1:42:02.960 --> 1:42:06.120 you know, guys, you can do it some some states 1:42:06.240 --> 1:42:08.479 gold to two years. You could do it too before 1:42:08.520 --> 1:42:14.400 you had to show up with the problem Hunter. Yes, 1:42:14.760 --> 1:42:17.320 I don't have the numbers in front of me. But um. 1:42:17.360 --> 1:42:19.720 There was a press conference at SACO about Families of 1:42:19.840 --> 1:42:23.400 Field and reached a milestone and a number of apprentice 1:42:23.439 --> 1:42:28.560 licenses and uh it's been very successful. Uh and the 1:42:28.640 --> 1:42:31.440 work continues to and there was a lot of resistance 1:42:31.479 --> 1:42:36.960 from Hunter ed guys um to the Families of Field effort. 1:42:37.160 --> 1:42:40.080 Let's just oh yeah, but but it's a collaborative effort, 1:42:40.080 --> 1:42:42.759 and it's the seffest part of its Sportsman's Alliance, National 1:42:42.760 --> 1:42:48.000 Wild Turkey Federation and the Congressional Sportsman's Foundation and their 1:42:48.600 --> 1:42:53.720 National Assembly Sportsman's Caucuses, and the work continues. My resistance 1:42:53.760 --> 1:42:56.720 to it was based on bitterness because when I was 1:42:56.720 --> 1:42:59.840 a kid had in Michigan. In Michigan, when I was 1:43:00.000 --> 1:43:02.439 if you had four teen, yeah, my dad did pay 1:43:02.439 --> 1:43:04.120 a whole lot of attention to that. But you're supposed 1:43:04.160 --> 1:43:05.720 to be fourteen to rifle hunt deer, And all of 1:43:05.760 --> 1:43:08.040 a sudden, I'm talking to buddies of mind from back 1:43:08.080 --> 1:43:10.479 home and they're out there with their ten and eleven 1:43:10.560 --> 1:43:12.559 year old I'm like, dude, what do you do. You're 1:43:12.560 --> 1:43:16.400 supposed to wait forever, you know, I mean in your 1:43:16.439 --> 1:43:19.680 teens and still watching your days, watching your dad. What 1:43:19.840 --> 1:43:23.479 really but drove the families of field was you know, 1:43:23.560 --> 1:43:26.200 studies coming out that showed that, you know, if you 1:43:26.280 --> 1:43:30.320 did not get a young person in the field by 1:43:30.320 --> 1:43:33.679 a certain age, you lost them. Right They're they're playing 1:43:33.800 --> 1:43:35.800 video games, they're getting you know, their their time is 1:43:35.800 --> 1:43:40.000 occupied by other things, and it's very hard to get them, 1:43:40.040 --> 1:43:42.240 you know, the start when their sixteen seventeen, right that 1:43:42.560 --> 1:43:47.559 you gotta engage them earlier, otherwise they're you know, you're 1:43:47.560 --> 1:43:49.840 not gonna be able to do. There's two bunch competition 1:43:51.320 --> 1:43:54.040 out there and it's it's proven to be pretty successful. 1:43:54.439 --> 1:44:00.760 Where where I live. My boy can no boy. My 1:44:00.800 --> 1:44:04.200 boy am a girl and my other boy can hunt 1:44:04.200 --> 1:44:07.759 with me when they're ten and then hunt unaccompanied after 1:44:07.800 --> 1:44:11.800 they do hunters safe once or so. He's kind of 1:44:11.840 --> 1:44:14.000 in the days man, and there's a youth there's a 1:44:14.040 --> 1:44:16.680 youth season there for deer, youth season for waterfowl. So 1:44:16.760 --> 1:44:20.320 that's gonna be a lot of fun. Uh So we 1:44:20.360 --> 1:44:23.240 did Sunday hunting. We jumped ahead of ourselves and got 1:44:23.280 --> 1:44:29.479 into some youth stuff. Let ammo. Yeah, big, big challenge, 1:44:29.520 --> 1:44:32.680 but some would say it's the biggest threat to the 1:44:32.720 --> 1:44:37.320 industry banning lead ammunition like we saw in California. So 1:44:37.439 --> 1:44:40.040 our you know, our view on on the issue is 1:44:40.040 --> 1:44:45.760 is this. You mentioned the point earlier. You manage wildlife populations, 1:44:46.400 --> 1:44:49.400 you don't manage to prevent harm to individual animals. Because 1:44:49.400 --> 1:44:53.240 if wildlife management becomes about preventing harm to individual animals, 1:44:53.400 --> 1:44:56.360 guess what you just made the argument for banning hunting 1:44:56.560 --> 1:45:01.439 right and fences and glass windows. So so our view 1:45:01.600 --> 1:45:06.639 is that decisions on this issue should be evidence based, 1:45:06.720 --> 1:45:11.839 based on science that's clear that shows that there's an 1:45:11.880 --> 1:45:17.080 adverse population impact, and then if that's the case, the 1:45:17.360 --> 1:45:19.760 Phish and Game Agency should look at what are the 1:45:19.800 --> 1:45:25.000 options available to address the problem to to turn it around, 1:45:26.000 --> 1:45:30.799 and that may or may not include banning ammunition certain 1:45:30.800 --> 1:45:33.599 types of ammunition, but you should look at what are 1:45:33.600 --> 1:45:37.080 the full spectrum of of things you can do. And 1:45:37.120 --> 1:45:40.000 then we think a factor and the decision should be 1:45:40.080 --> 1:45:44.120 what is the you know, what is effective and least 1:45:44.160 --> 1:45:47.200 costly to the hunter, because if you know increase cost, 1:45:48.000 --> 1:45:50.200 you know, just basic economics, right, you're you're gonna have 1:45:50.280 --> 1:45:53.719 less participation that may or may not result in banning 1:45:54.120 --> 1:45:57.760 lead ammunition in an area. And we think the the 1:45:57.840 --> 1:46:02.600 solution should be is local lost is necessary? Um, you know, 1:46:02.600 --> 1:46:05.080 if you've got a problem in a particular localized area, 1:46:05.360 --> 1:46:07.960 that doesn't mean you have to adopt the statewide band. 1:46:08.040 --> 1:46:12.080 California started in the Condor region and then expanded statewide. 1:46:12.960 --> 1:46:17.360 We think the question that uh a good part of 1:46:17.360 --> 1:46:20.080 the push for banning lead ammunition comes from the anti 1:46:20.160 --> 1:46:23.840 hunting groups. I mean, when the Humane Society of the 1:46:23.920 --> 1:46:28.080 United States, UM, you know, support spanning lead ammunition and 1:46:28.080 --> 1:46:30.439 wants people to hunt with copper ammunition, I mean, are 1:46:30.479 --> 1:46:33.960 you serious. I mean, now hs US is okay with 1:46:34.040 --> 1:46:36.639 hunting as long as you're not using lead ammunition. Let's 1:46:36.720 --> 1:46:42.120 laughable on its face. So if there's a part and 1:46:42.360 --> 1:46:46.840 we don't see population impacts, right, I mean, even with 1:46:46.840 --> 1:46:49.960 the condor, it's clear that lead. They were getting lead 1:46:50.000 --> 1:46:52.679 from other sources, paint chips on on the water towers. 1:46:53.720 --> 1:46:57.519 And the core of the basis for the law in 1:46:57.640 --> 1:47:03.519 California was um a study that is totally flawed and 1:47:03.600 --> 1:47:07.519 not credible that was pushed by the folks out there 1:47:08.160 --> 1:47:11.840 too became the basis for why they banned lead ammunition 1:47:11.840 --> 1:47:14.880 from hunting in the entire state. And we said, uh, look, 1:47:14.880 --> 1:47:17.719 if you do this, here's the consequences. You're gonna people 1:47:17.720 --> 1:47:20.000 are gonna hunt less, and they're gonna hunt outside the state. 1:47:20.120 --> 1:47:23.280 And end there is not enough lead ammunition or non 1:47:23.360 --> 1:47:26.599 let ammunition produced in the country to meet the demand 1:47:26.600 --> 1:47:30.280 of hunters in California. So the industry makes non lead 1:47:30.320 --> 1:47:36.439 ammunition alternative ammunition. In response, to consumer demand, and that 1:47:36.479 --> 1:47:39.040 demand amounts to less than one percent of the entire 1:47:39.040 --> 1:47:42.280 ammunition market. Is that right? Yes? What if I when 1:47:42.320 --> 1:47:47.040 you break it down to the center fire, so nine 1:47:48.960 --> 1:47:57.120 of ammunition is um metallic lead ammunition, five is alternative ammunition. 1:47:57.360 --> 1:48:00.719 Four of the five percent of shot hill. The rest 1:48:01.240 --> 1:48:06.080 is uh, you know, for it's some of its frangible 1:48:06.120 --> 1:48:09.919 ammunition a small part. But that's that's how much demander 1:48:10.000 --> 1:48:13.920 is for non let ammunition. And our view is, look, 1:48:14.479 --> 1:48:18.519 if hunters want to use alternative ammunition, that should be 1:48:18.560 --> 1:48:23.680 their choice, right, I mean, and the initial will make 1:48:23.680 --> 1:48:26.559 it in response to consumer demand, like any any other product. 1:48:26.680 --> 1:48:28.519 That's the thing that's like an annoyance I find in 1:48:28.560 --> 1:48:35.040 this debate is if people are it's becomes so contentious 1:48:35.560 --> 1:48:38.759 that if people talk about how they use monolithic bullets 1:48:38.840 --> 1:48:41.200 or use copper, some people feel that just a simple 1:48:41.240 --> 1:48:45.800 fact of you using it as condemnation of lead, even 1:48:45.800 --> 1:48:49.200 though I first became introduced to it, certainly by people 1:48:49.200 --> 1:48:53.760 who are just motivated by performance. Right. But it's like, 1:48:54.160 --> 1:48:57.280 but sometimes people jump on you, you know, if you 1:48:57.400 --> 1:49:00.240 use solid copper, they'll act like somehow you don't support lead, 1:49:00.280 --> 1:49:01.400 And I think it's just like one of those things 1:49:01.400 --> 1:49:03.120 that it's just a sensitive world because we're all like 1:49:03.240 --> 1:49:07.760 really embroiled and it's a passion it's a passion based thing, 1:49:07.840 --> 1:49:10.760 and there's sensitivities afloat, But it just winds up being 1:49:10.760 --> 1:49:15.320 like a really interesting conversation of individual like to say, 1:49:15.360 --> 1:49:22.280 like individually, for whatever reason, performance um concerns, and they 1:49:22.280 --> 1:49:26.000 don't seem to be the people have concerns about ingesting 1:49:26.280 --> 1:49:32.719 bullet lead absent any documentation that hunters have elevated lead 1:49:32.760 --> 1:49:36.920 levels doesn't exist. In fact, quite the contrary, right, But regardless, 1:49:36.920 --> 1:49:39.800 like you might whatever reason, like someone might decide to 1:49:39.880 --> 1:49:43.280 do it. And I think that again, industry will match 1:49:43.360 --> 1:49:47.120 up with people's choices, but there's there's needs to be 1:49:47.200 --> 1:49:49.439 ability to say, like, this is what I personally choose. 1:49:49.880 --> 1:49:53.120 Does that mean that I want to legislate it? Does 1:49:53.520 --> 1:49:55.240 that mean I want to legislate it and make it 1:49:55.320 --> 1:49:58.840 mandatory for all people to conform to the decisions that 1:49:59.200 --> 1:50:02.360 i've personally may And we think it's the hunter's choice 1:50:03.000 --> 1:50:06.920 if they want to use that product for performance or 1:50:06.960 --> 1:50:12.400 because they think it's more environmentally sensitive. You know, the 1:50:11.400 --> 1:50:15.200 more the industry will respond to consumer demand and more 1:50:15.240 --> 1:50:18.920 will be produced. Those just are the facts that it's 1:50:19.000 --> 1:50:23.120 less than one percent. We don't think it's really you know, 1:50:23.160 --> 1:50:25.920 this should be a decision for the state fish and 1:50:25.960 --> 1:50:28.320 game agencies. They're the professionals, they're the ones with the 1:50:28.360 --> 1:50:31.479 expertise and wildlife management. We don't think it should be 1:50:31.520 --> 1:50:35.840 regulated by legislature because other you know, that's you know, 1:50:35.920 --> 1:50:39.800 that's why the state agencies exist. Although I mean if 1:50:39.800 --> 1:50:42.400 you had an out of control state agency, maybe you 1:50:42.439 --> 1:50:46.599 would need legislation, uh, if they weren't making a science, 1:50:46.760 --> 1:50:52.760 science based decision. But you know, so it's you manage populations. 1:50:52.920 --> 1:50:56.040 If there's a population impact, and you determine it's coming 1:50:56.200 --> 1:50:59.360 you know, from lead, I mean a's and what are 1:50:59.360 --> 1:51:03.599 the options? So for example dove you know, if you 1:51:03.720 --> 1:51:08.680 ban um lead shot for dove hunting, I mean, it 1:51:08.720 --> 1:51:12.240 makes dove hunting really expensive, right, and so what happened? 1:51:12.240 --> 1:51:15.120 What would happen to dove hunting? Here we go down precipitously. 1:51:15.600 --> 1:51:20.559 Do you need to ban lead for you know, dove hunting? Well, 1:51:20.720 --> 1:51:25.800 I don't see any evidence of adverse population impacts on doves. 1:51:25.800 --> 1:51:28.360 I mean people have been shooting doves in Argentina for example, 1:51:29.320 --> 1:51:33.400 like crazy amounts of lead shot and there there's no 1:51:33.439 --> 1:51:36.320 shortage of doves in Argentina, for example, both Harvested Game 1:51:36.400 --> 1:51:41.040 Animal America and I've talked to, you know, the former 1:51:41.400 --> 1:51:45.839 director of Fish and Wildlife, like because Missouri, for example, 1:51:45.960 --> 1:51:50.360 was looking at, you know, banning the use of lead 1:51:50.360 --> 1:51:53.320 shot for dove hunting. And you know, are there other 1:51:54.360 --> 1:51:56.960 things you can do short of banning the product that 1:51:57.000 --> 1:51:59.680 would adequately address the problem. And one of the things 1:51:59.680 --> 1:52:01.920 you can do till the soil, right, turn the soil 1:52:01.920 --> 1:52:06.160 over so it's not accessible, or rotate the duff fields. Um. 1:52:06.280 --> 1:52:08.400 So there, you know, there are things that can be 1:52:08.439 --> 1:52:11.719 done short of an outright ban. And again it there's 1:52:12.080 --> 1:52:16.719 you know, shouldn't ban it unless there's population impacts. What's 1:52:16.720 --> 1:52:18.960 your perspective? We hear a lot in this like the 1:52:19.000 --> 1:52:21.640 bald eagle is used as the symbol of the other side, right, 1:52:21.680 --> 1:52:26.400 It's evokes a lot of emotion, right, and it's eagle 1:52:26.479 --> 1:52:30.559 populations are soaring, pardon the pun, right, And most states 1:52:30.560 --> 1:52:33.719 don't even bother counting nesting pairs anymorekers, they're so plentiful. 1:52:33.760 --> 1:52:38.200 But we see story after story after story, you know, um, 1:52:38.479 --> 1:52:41.280 and they're almost indistinguishable it's like a cookie cutter. And 1:52:42.080 --> 1:52:45.120 this is coming from you know, from anti hunting groups 1:52:45.160 --> 1:52:48.719 were convinced, you know that they hold up a single eagle, 1:52:49.360 --> 1:52:54.679 um that's in a in a you know Avian rescues 1:52:54.800 --> 1:52:59.000 thing and our place, and they extrapolate that, you know, 1:52:59.040 --> 1:53:01.840 there's this big problem and you have to band lead 1:53:01.880 --> 1:53:06.120 ammunition when a reality, you know, the populations of eagles 1:53:06.120 --> 1:53:09.599 are soaring, and there was that study in Iowa done 1:53:09.640 --> 1:53:12.120 a couple of years ago. You know, it's like like 1:53:13.160 --> 1:53:16.799 it's a guy at federal who works on conspation issues, 1:53:17.000 --> 1:53:22.479 Ryan Bronson, and you know Ryan, great guy, he often said, 1:53:22.520 --> 1:53:25.320 and it's some of these state fishing Game agency means 1:53:25.360 --> 1:53:27.800 that we go to is like, look, if you look 1:53:28.080 --> 1:53:31.880 for uh, sick people in the hospital, guess what you're 1:53:31.880 --> 1:53:35.800 gonna find sick people. But you can't extrapolate from the 1:53:35.880 --> 1:53:39.719 sick person in the hospital that there's this problem outside 1:53:39.760 --> 1:53:42.639 of the hospital. And that's what that study in Iowa did. 1:53:42.680 --> 1:53:45.960 It actually went out and looked at you know, you know, 1:53:46.840 --> 1:53:49.760 the eagle population and said there was fine, there wasn't 1:53:49.800 --> 1:53:54.320 any evidence of a problem. So they know, they find 1:53:54.320 --> 1:53:56.960 one eagle, they bring it and they extrapolate from there 1:53:56.960 --> 1:53:59.720 and say, well, we gotta band lead ammunition when you know, 1:54:00.040 --> 1:54:02.960 and it's the hunters and the conservation dollars back pivoting 1:54:02.960 --> 1:54:06.200 back to Pittman Robertson, who paid for the restoration of 1:54:06.240 --> 1:54:08.280 the Eagle Hunters dead. You can think a hunt it right. 1:54:08.320 --> 1:54:12.120 So you're gonna you're gonna ban traditional ammunition without evidence 1:54:12.160 --> 1:54:15.959 that there's a population fact, and there's even less evidence 1:54:16.320 --> 1:54:18.360 that there's a human health risk. I mean to study 1:54:18.400 --> 1:54:24.000 the CDC did in in North Dakota, hunters had lower 1:54:24.000 --> 1:54:28.400 than the average, than the pop than the control group, 1:54:28.840 --> 1:54:31.000 lower than the average person walking around on the street. 1:54:31.000 --> 1:54:33.680 Everybody in this we all have some level of lead 1:54:33.720 --> 1:54:39.600 in or butt, right, it's but probably probably a uh 1:54:39.800 --> 1:54:45.600 factor predominantly rural, yes, so, and hunters who had hunted 1:54:45.600 --> 1:54:47.920 the longest had even lower levels. So if there was 1:54:47.960 --> 1:54:51.160 this idea that well, if you keep eating game harvested 1:54:51.440 --> 1:54:54.320 with traditional ammunition, lead's going to build up in your blood, 1:54:54.320 --> 1:54:56.160 well then these hunters that have been hunting the longest 1:54:56.160 --> 1:54:58.640 should have had higher readings, and I actually had lower readings. 1:54:59.400 --> 1:55:05.120 So that study probably like diminished exposure to all diminished 1:55:05.120 --> 1:55:07.280 exposure to all the other ways you'd just led. And 1:55:07.320 --> 1:55:10.960 nobody in the study had a lead level that was 1:55:11.240 --> 1:55:15.080 remotely approaching the threshold of concern for a child, let 1:55:15.080 --> 1:55:18.560 alone adults. Right, And there was one person in the study, 1:55:18.600 --> 1:55:23.280 as I recall, um, that had levels about the level 1:55:23.360 --> 1:55:25.160 of concern for a child, but this was an adult. 1:55:25.160 --> 1:55:27.480 But they had no that they couldn't say that lead 1:55:27.560 --> 1:55:31.120 was sourced from consuming game. And I always been checking 1:55:31.160 --> 1:55:34.000 the blood lead levels of their people in the state 1:55:34.080 --> 1:55:37.800 for years, right, a lot of hunting in Iowa. They've 1:55:37.840 --> 1:55:40.040 never seen it. There's never been a documented case of 1:55:40.080 --> 1:55:43.000 anybody in the United States having elevated lead levels, let 1:55:43.040 --> 1:55:47.080 alone lead poisoning from consuming game harvested with traditional ammunition. 1:55:47.520 --> 1:55:52.440 So what was your perspective in the early nineties when 1:55:52.600 --> 1:55:59.640 they banned lead ammunition for migratory waterfowl? So, yeah, you 1:56:00.080 --> 1:56:02.600 it predates me. But what I've heard is that, um, 1:56:03.080 --> 1:56:07.640 that this is just what I've heard in over the years, 1:56:07.880 --> 1:56:12.520 is that there really wasn't good science that that it 1:56:12.560 --> 1:56:15.200 was having a population impact. But basically came down to 1:56:15.440 --> 1:56:18.000 judge saying either you agree to this or I'm gonna 1:56:18.040 --> 1:56:23.920 ban waterfowl hunting nationwide, and and so sort of that's 1:56:23.920 --> 1:56:26.600 how it came to be. But I mean, we're not 1:56:26.680 --> 1:56:33.000 debating you know this issue now thirty years later, right, So, um, 1:56:33.120 --> 1:56:35.640 my dad said that, but he did have an impact 1:56:35.640 --> 1:56:37.920 on on duck hunting in the United States. My dad 1:56:37.960 --> 1:56:41.600 talked about because I was just starting hunt then, um, 1:56:41.600 --> 1:56:44.880 just starting legally hunt. My dad talk of people quiting hunting. Yeah, 1:56:45.200 --> 1:56:48.000 but the people adjusted to it over time. But so, 1:56:48.400 --> 1:56:54.080 but as an organization, what's your what's your perspective on um? Like, 1:56:54.120 --> 1:56:56.600 you represent industry, okay, and you want things to be 1:56:56.760 --> 1:57:00.920 smooth for the industry. What is your perspective bond cases 1:57:00.960 --> 1:57:06.200 and that, Like, let's say around letters other hypotheticals, Uh, 1:57:06.440 --> 1:57:13.240 where wildlife management agency is making a wildlife based decision. 1:57:13.480 --> 1:57:15.280 Here's a good hypothetical. I heard a story one time. 1:57:15.280 --> 1:57:20.400 I heard a story that Florida used to Florida that 1:57:20.480 --> 1:57:26.440 thing where they allowed rifle hunting for turkeys in the spring. Okay, 1:57:27.360 --> 1:57:29.360 let's just say there's a there's a there's a state 1:57:29.520 --> 1:57:31.440 that allows rifle hunting for turkeys in the spring. And 1:57:31.520 --> 1:57:34.040 someone points out that you don't wear hunters orange when 1:57:34.040 --> 1:57:36.160 you're hunting turkeys because they see the orange. And there 1:57:36.160 --> 1:57:40.320 s movement. Um, people are on the ground, people are 1:57:40.400 --> 1:57:45.720 mimicking the sounds of female turkeys, and the turkey hunting community. 1:57:45.800 --> 1:57:50.040 Let's say, in a hypothetical state, the turkey hunting community says, man, 1:57:50.440 --> 1:57:52.960 let's just keep let's just stick at the shotguns, because 1:57:52.960 --> 1:57:56.680 then we're everyone's safer out in the woods. And this 1:57:56.840 --> 1:57:59.480 is traditionally, you know, all across the councient people huntle 1:57:59.480 --> 1:58:01.760 with shotguns the spring, and we're going to conform to 1:58:01.800 --> 1:58:07.680 that norm as suggested by turkey hunters, the game agencies 1:58:07.720 --> 1:58:12.280 behind it. Now, what if someone looks and says, what 1:58:12.400 --> 1:58:15.680 might be a hunter issue, a game management issue, but 1:58:15.760 --> 1:58:18.320 someone looks and says, no, that's a gun issue. You're 1:58:18.360 --> 1:58:22.160 infringing gun rights. How do you, like, how do you 1:58:22.240 --> 1:58:25.400 navigate that? If? If you do that, the state fishing 1:58:25.440 --> 1:58:28.920 game agencies, you know, I have the authority to regulate 1:58:29.520 --> 1:58:33.520 the seasons, regulate the implements used for taking game. We 1:58:34.320 --> 1:58:36.120 have no problem with that. So if that were going on, 1:58:36.320 --> 1:58:38.280 I mean, I think it's a it's a safety issue, right, 1:58:38.360 --> 1:58:41.120 And the bullets from a rifle travel a lot further 1:58:41.120 --> 1:58:45.680 than pellets from shotgun, so instinctively you don't see that 1:58:45.800 --> 1:58:48.680 and think that's a fight. I'm gonna wait into That's 1:58:48.680 --> 1:58:50.680 not a fight we would get involved in. I mean, 1:58:50.760 --> 1:58:53.280 thinking about it, it's even even where I live in Virginia, 1:58:53.360 --> 1:58:55.720 there are some counties that are closer here to to 1:58:55.800 --> 1:58:59.440 the DC area where you can only hunt with archery 1:58:59.480 --> 1:59:03.320 equipment because it's so so so densely populated. And then 1:59:03.360 --> 1:59:05.000 as you started to get a little bit further out, okay, 1:59:05.000 --> 1:59:06.480 you can hunt with a shotgun. And then once you 1:59:06.520 --> 1:59:08.160 get to these counties, okay, now you can hunt with 1:59:08.160 --> 1:59:10.840 a rifle. We don't have an issue with that. I mean, 1:59:10.880 --> 1:59:15.160 that's that's a safety issue. But you could see as 1:59:15.240 --> 1:59:17.360 much as uncomfortable with that stuff. You could see if 1:59:17.400 --> 1:59:22.480 that becoming a tool used by anti hunters. And so 1:59:22.600 --> 1:59:24.240 it's like, I guess that's the kind of the broader 1:59:24.240 --> 1:59:27.800 point I'm making is you always need to consider the 1:59:27.840 --> 1:59:31.360 source some things because there's ideas, like they said, like 1:59:31.400 --> 1:59:35.760 the abuse of the abuse of lead AMMO bands in California, 1:59:35.800 --> 1:59:39.120 where there's there's an isolated instance or an isolated case 1:59:39.160 --> 1:59:43.680 with migratory waterfowl. Say, we're looking like from a management perspective, 1:59:44.600 --> 1:59:49.440 this makes sense. Someone then looks and it says huh um, 1:59:49.520 --> 1:59:52.280 I'm gonna now use manipulate this and use this as 1:59:52.320 --> 1:59:59.720 a general tool to curb people's rights. You're seeing that 1:59:59.760 --> 2:00:01.920 half right now in Oregon. So in Oregon, they've got 2:00:01.920 --> 2:00:04.960 several bills that we're trying to push back on that 2:00:05.000 --> 2:00:08.480 would include, uh, you know, a fourteen day waiting period, 2:00:09.160 --> 2:00:12.560 a limit of only twenty rounds a month, and five 2:00:12.640 --> 2:00:20.920 round magazine capacity shot around a skeet traps season. But 2:00:21.000 --> 2:00:24.640 on top of that, you're also looking at their their 2:00:24.880 --> 2:00:27.000 debating right now where they're going to have a ban 2:00:27.200 --> 2:00:30.120 on lead immunition for anyone between the ages of eighteen. 2:00:32.240 --> 2:00:35.120 I know that, and they the argument they make is 2:00:35.160 --> 2:00:38.400 its public health. See, this is what I'm this is 2:00:38.440 --> 2:00:40.400 what I'm talking about where you wind up in new 2:00:40.520 --> 2:00:45.080 situations where it's just it's like so clearly coming from 2:00:46.120 --> 2:00:48.920 the perspective of someone who is like I want to 2:00:49.280 --> 2:00:52.720 whittle away at I want to whittle away at this 2:00:52.800 --> 2:00:55.480 community or whittle away at people's rights. What are the 2:00:55.520 --> 2:00:57.960 things I can use to get there? So what we're 2:00:57.960 --> 2:01:01.480 saying is, uh, Connecticut, they was a bill introduced to 2:01:01.800 --> 2:01:07.480 a fifty tax and ammunition. Um, we've seen that in Seattle, 2:01:08.640 --> 2:01:11.320 Cook County, Illinois outside of Chicago, and you know, we 2:01:11.400 --> 2:01:14.400 see this in Oregon. The other thing we're seeing is, 2:01:14.920 --> 2:01:18.920 you know, we saw it in Florida. You know, say 2:01:19.440 --> 2:01:24.680 you cannot purchase long guns until one. So federal law 2:01:24.960 --> 2:01:29.320 now says you can't purchase a hanggun until one. So 2:01:29.360 --> 2:01:32.800 now you're eighteen nineteen and twenty. Federal law now says 2:01:32.840 --> 2:01:34.680 you have to be twenty one to purchase the hand 2:01:35.960 --> 2:01:42.320 control right. Yeah, so if you pan under state law 2:01:42.680 --> 2:01:45.440 was like in Florida for example, and there's lawsuit pending 2:01:46.000 --> 2:01:49.520 the eighteen nineteen and twenty and you can't purchase a 2:01:49.600 --> 2:01:53.600 long gun, you also can't purchase handgun. You're an adult, 2:01:53.680 --> 2:01:56.000 you could be in the military or you know, you 2:01:56.480 --> 2:01:58.400 could be the spouse of somebody in the military, you 2:01:58.400 --> 2:02:02.320 could have a child, you could you know, Um, you 2:02:02.360 --> 2:02:05.640 can't purchase a gun for target shooting, you can't purchase 2:02:06.000 --> 2:02:08.000 a gun for hunting, and you can't purchase a gun 2:02:08.040 --> 2:02:11.120 for self defense. To us, that is clearly a violation 2:02:11.160 --> 2:02:12.880 of the Second Amendment. We don't even think that's a 2:02:12.920 --> 2:02:16.160 close call. So again, you're looking at someone eighteen years old, 2:02:16.200 --> 2:02:19.520 fully vested in their rights. They can vote, freedom of speech, freedom, 2:02:19.560 --> 2:02:22.800 exercise of religion, free assembly. But you can't exercise your 2:02:22.840 --> 2:02:25.000 Second Amendment rights. You can't buy a gun until you 2:02:25.080 --> 2:02:30.000 twenty one. I wonder why we're twenty one because the 2:02:30.080 --> 2:02:32.960 drinking laws. I think it's an arbitrary number that they 2:02:33.000 --> 2:02:36.160 picked out of the air. I mean, you know, in 2:02:37.800 --> 2:02:40.880 long before Hella was decided, right, So you also can't 2:02:41.240 --> 2:02:45.320 buy handguns across their lines. I'm trying to think of 2:02:45.360 --> 2:02:49.080 how I had I had even from a dealer seventeen. 2:02:49.080 --> 2:02:51.000 I'm trying to think of how I guess my dad 2:02:51.080 --> 2:02:54.080 just gave me any But you couldn't. You cannot walk 2:02:54.080 --> 2:02:57.280 into a gun store license e and purchase a handgun 2:02:57.480 --> 2:03:01.280 unless one and you're in my Tanna. You cannot drive 2:03:01.320 --> 2:03:04.040 into Wyoming, go to a license dealer in Wyoming and 2:03:04.160 --> 2:03:09.320 purchase a handgun from that dealer, even if you're older. 2:03:09.560 --> 2:03:12.080 You cannot buy a handgun across state lines. So yeah, 2:03:12.120 --> 2:03:13.320 I mean in case of point, when I was in 2:03:13.320 --> 2:03:15.800 the military, I could buy a handgun in any state 2:03:15.840 --> 2:03:19.760 I was stationed in because virtue of my my military orders. Now, 2:03:19.800 --> 2:03:21.560 my wife, I was in a Hampshire resident while I 2:03:21.560 --> 2:03:23.480 was in the military. My wife is a Texas resident, 2:03:23.560 --> 2:03:26.560 she maintained her Texas residency. For her to buy a handgun, 2:03:27.040 --> 2:03:29.600 she would either have to go back to Texas or 2:03:30.040 --> 2:03:32.040 she would have to change her residency every three years 2:03:32.080 --> 2:03:35.040 every time we moved. So you're putting that a huge 2:03:35.040 --> 2:03:39.400 burden on people. What is the what is the issue 2:03:39.480 --> 2:03:45.680 with the limit? The Oregon thing which I can't picture's 2:03:45.720 --> 2:03:48.400 gonna get youwhere? Or am I wrong? The twenty rounds? 2:03:48.400 --> 2:03:50.640 So what is it again? So you can only buy 2:03:50.640 --> 2:03:53.960 twenty rounds a month at Oregon State? Shock on? She 2:03:56.120 --> 2:04:00.400 state built five? One? That one out? And again, how 2:04:00.440 --> 2:04:06.240 do you enforce next month? So that's not gonna go anywhere? 2:04:06.320 --> 2:04:09.520 Is it? I would not I would not say no, 2:04:09.800 --> 2:04:12.840 not in Oregon? Right now? Yeah, So, I mean it's 2:04:12.880 --> 2:04:15.040 a thing about it is we go to We're going 2:04:15.080 --> 2:04:17.040 to go out duck hunting, and I'm a terrible shot 2:04:17.120 --> 2:04:18.840 and I can't shoot anything. So I blow through twenty 2:04:18.920 --> 2:04:20.800 rounds right away, trying to shoot my first two ducks, 2:04:21.600 --> 2:04:25.120 and then I'm like, I'm out of AMMO. I look 2:04:25.120 --> 2:04:26.560 at you and say, Steven, let me get some shal 2:04:26.840 --> 2:04:29.600 from you so I can continue shoot. Am I violation 2:04:29.640 --> 2:04:31.760 to law now? Because I'm now transferring AMMO to me? 2:04:31.960 --> 2:04:34.600 Are you violating law because you're answering handing AMMO to me? 2:04:34.760 --> 2:04:36.360 I guess I can't ask you to pay me back 2:04:36.400 --> 2:04:42.480 for well, he's only got twenty himself. So luck what 2:04:42.520 --> 2:04:46.560 other uh? What other things are you guys watching for 2:04:46.840 --> 2:04:50.880 that make you? Um, you know, I guess like not 2:04:50.880 --> 2:04:54.760 not ones that not pieces of legislation. Again, man, I 2:04:54.760 --> 2:04:59.000 don't know, that's very hard for me to picture. Uh, 2:04:59.040 --> 2:05:01.040 I don't know. I don't know the the political climate there. 2:05:01.080 --> 2:05:05.360 That's very hard for me to picture. Passing California. It's 2:05:05.400 --> 2:05:08.520 it's tough your listeners that live in Oregon and pick 2:05:08.600 --> 2:05:11.160 up a phone, call your state senator and call your representative. 2:05:11.640 --> 2:05:14.240 Make sure they know how ridiculous that is. It includes 2:05:14.280 --> 2:05:18.160 shotgun shells. Okay, what are the what are the pieces 2:05:18.160 --> 2:05:23.080 of legislation that you're looking at? And uh, the ones 2:05:23.080 --> 2:05:27.680 you're most leria of coming up? We base you spend 2:05:27.720 --> 2:05:31.400 some time on age basis a concern attempts to ban 2:05:31.520 --> 2:05:35.440 monitors boarding rifles. We see that, you know, Um, we're 2:05:36.040 --> 2:05:39.600 looking at that and in several states, Yeah, maybe Nevada, 2:05:39.680 --> 2:05:45.080 maybe Oregon, maybe in Colorado's Colorado yep. So we're concerned 2:05:45.120 --> 2:05:48.400 about that. Um. Those are by far the most popular 2:05:48.480 --> 2:05:51.640 rifles being sold in the United States. Articulate from your 2:05:51.680 --> 2:05:55.720 perspective on it, it's a semi automatic rifle. UM. They 2:05:55.760 --> 2:06:00.760 are like the ninety four and that was in place 2:06:00.760 --> 2:06:03.600 for ten years. They would be banning the products based 2:06:03.600 --> 2:06:07.280 on cosmetic features. There's no um effect on how the 2:06:07.280 --> 2:06:10.360 fire and functions. Semi Automatic firems have been in civilian 2:06:10.400 --> 2:06:13.919 possession for well over a hundred years. UH. The studies 2:06:14.000 --> 2:06:17.640 that were done by the government on the Clinton gun 2:06:17.680 --> 2:06:20.560 band showed that it had absolutely no impact on reducing 2:06:20.600 --> 2:06:22.480 crime in the United States. We also had a magazine 2:06:22.480 --> 2:06:25.360 capacity restriction for ten years. It had absolutely no impact 2:06:25.360 --> 2:06:29.200 on reducing crime. Uh. It's that no impact on reducing 2:06:29.200 --> 2:06:32.520 crime in the states that that have passed it. UM, 2:06:32.600 --> 2:06:37.400 So you're just denying people a rifle that they want 2:06:37.480 --> 2:06:40.440 to purchase for lawful purposes. Primarily target shooting is the 2:06:40.480 --> 2:06:46.640 main use, increasingly hunting, and also for UM personal protective 2:06:46.680 --> 2:06:50.920 self defense. I was, you know, I was, I don't know. 2:06:51.040 --> 2:06:53.160 I was out of high school but didn't follow things 2:06:53.160 --> 2:06:57.640 as closely. Then. What did the night ban was that 2:06:58.320 --> 2:07:02.840 at the time was adoption rates of a are so 2:07:03.040 --> 2:07:05.120 low that there wasn't any resistance or was that like 2:07:05.120 --> 2:07:08.080 a contentious It was extremely contentious. I didn't know if 2:07:08.080 --> 2:07:09.680 it was like one of those things where it wasn't 2:07:09.720 --> 2:07:11.840 They weren't widespread, you still it kind of went on 2:07:12.040 --> 2:07:16.240 not unnoticed, but was grown in popularity since the sun set, 2:07:16.560 --> 2:07:21.320 for partly because the sunset, and then also largely as 2:07:21.360 --> 2:07:24.880 we talked earlier, people that served in the military came 2:07:24.920 --> 2:07:28.560 back from overseas or being in military and wanted to 2:07:28.560 --> 2:07:33.520 purchase these firearms for target shooting, primarily. More than sixteen 2:07:33.560 --> 2:07:37.480 million modern sporting rifles are in private ownership today, more 2:07:37.520 --> 2:07:40.839 than sixteen million, sixteen million just since ninety four. They've 2:07:41.080 --> 2:07:43.840 they've been on the commercial market since nineteen sixty three. 2:07:44.200 --> 2:07:47.080 There's a nineteen sixty one Cult Sport had out there 2:07:47.600 --> 2:07:53.040 talking about hunting with the cult Sporter rifle, which was 2:07:53.680 --> 2:07:58.360 a nifty What what do people do in states where 2:07:58.400 --> 2:08:02.880 you know, okay, like if you're hunting, uh, you hunt waterfowl, 2:08:03.800 --> 2:08:07.320 you have a three shot limit, so you can only 2:08:07.320 --> 2:08:11.120 have three shots in the sun. And that's a not 2:08:11.200 --> 2:08:13.720 a vestige. I mean, it has to do with in 2:08:13.840 --> 2:08:17.200 order to have plenty of opportunity for everyone to hunt. 2:08:18.240 --> 2:08:21.400 State game agencies need to in federal you know, in 2:08:21.440 --> 2:08:24.720 this case US Fishing and Wildlife Service, they take measures 2:08:24.800 --> 2:08:28.360 to to limit efficacy so that you can spread that. 2:08:28.440 --> 2:08:30.840 So it's like this matter we are here like fair chase, 2:08:30.840 --> 2:08:34.000 which is a problematic term, but fair share, right, You're 2:08:34.040 --> 2:08:36.880 you're expanding things. So if you have states that have 2:08:37.240 --> 2:08:40.560 MAGA like states that have magazine capacities, what do a 2:08:40.800 --> 2:08:45.200 R hunters do if you have a state where you 2:08:45.240 --> 2:08:50.000 have a four shot limit, so you, um, you know, 2:08:50.240 --> 2:08:54.000 models with smaller magazines that are you know, cam out 2:08:54.040 --> 2:08:57.080 out and uh, you know sold for the hunting market, 2:08:57.760 --> 2:09:00.160 or you just have a larger magazine, but you can 2:09:00.160 --> 2:09:02.440 only have so many rounds and people people produce that 2:09:02.720 --> 2:09:05.800 I've never I've never hunted the one I've shot. Yeah, 2:09:05.800 --> 2:09:09.160 I mean it's it's a small part of the hunting market. 2:09:09.160 --> 2:09:13.760 I mean it's it's yeah, but I've hunted where they are, 2:09:13.760 --> 2:09:16.880 So I've hunted hunted predators. I've hunted hogs with him. Um, 2:09:17.600 --> 2:09:20.440 I don't know, people have hunted big game with them. 2:09:20.440 --> 2:09:23.800 They come you know the other side, you know, they 2:09:24.520 --> 2:09:27.240 they don't understand that it comes in different calipers, right. 2:09:27.280 --> 2:09:30.280 I mean, like what we did an exercise at a 2:09:30.320 --> 2:09:34.040 conference of state legislators. We had a poster. We had 2:09:35.040 --> 2:09:40.560 uh Remington a r in camo. It was our fifteen 2:09:42.200 --> 2:09:44.440 udly was chambered in three or eight, and then we 2:09:44.480 --> 2:09:49.320 had a black Smith and Wesson MMPO twenty two long rifle, 2:09:49.960 --> 2:09:52.840 and we had the two bullets like on the bottom 2:09:52.880 --> 2:09:56.240 of the poster and like actual size, and we asked 2:09:56.400 --> 2:10:00.480 people state legislad or small of the country, Um, okay, 2:10:00.640 --> 2:10:02.480 you know which is you know, which goes to which 2:10:02.520 --> 2:10:06.200 they invariably said, you know, like got it wrong or which, 2:10:06.560 --> 2:10:09.560 Oh that one that's okay because it's camouflaged. The black one, 2:10:09.600 --> 2:10:13.440 well that's bad, just like you know, and they would 2:10:13.480 --> 2:10:15.880 just assume that the larger, you know, because they all 2:10:15.920 --> 2:10:18.920 they hear right in the media is you know, high 2:10:19.000 --> 2:10:23.840 powered assault rifles. Most a RS mountain sporting rifles coming 2:10:23.880 --> 2:10:27.600 two two three Remington's right. Most states will not let 2:10:27.640 --> 2:10:29.680 you hunt white tail deer with it two two three 2:10:29.680 --> 2:10:33.480 Remington's it's not powerful enough. But you know, if you're 2:10:33.800 --> 2:10:36.560 prairie dogs and things like that, that's where the people 2:10:36.640 --> 2:10:39.240 use them a lot or hog hunting Farrell hogs and 2:10:39.320 --> 2:10:44.520 which is a great, great against coyotes and kyotes. Right, So, 2:10:44.600 --> 2:10:47.920 what's what's the conversation that you have with states that 2:10:47.960 --> 2:10:57.240 are that are considering bands. There's often not much you're 2:10:57.240 --> 2:11:00.720 a conversation, all right, I mean, they just nothing you 2:11:00.760 --> 2:11:03.440 can say. They want to hear. They don't care a right, 2:11:03.480 --> 2:11:06.680 I mean, it's it's politically expedient and they think it's 2:11:07.320 --> 2:11:13.760 popular politically, and they trade on the false information. They 2:11:13.800 --> 2:11:15.640 don't want to know the truth, they don't want to 2:11:15.640 --> 2:11:18.240 know the facts. I think an easy case to point 2:11:18.240 --> 2:11:20.720 is is how quickly New York pushed through their safegun 2:11:20.720 --> 2:11:22.960 Act and their gun loss that they're pushing through right now. 2:11:23.040 --> 2:11:27.480 They're literally days it's their introduction and three days later 2:11:27.560 --> 2:11:30.600 the governor signed again into law. There's no there's no 2:11:30.680 --> 2:11:34.040 public hearing in New York. Often the case, the bill 2:11:34.120 --> 2:11:36.920 isn't even written when they pass it. It's just like 2:11:36.960 --> 2:11:39.280 a concept, right, here's an outline of what will be 2:11:39.280 --> 2:11:41.360 in it, and then they write it later. No, No, 2:11:41.720 --> 2:11:44.040 there's no public hearings, an opportunity for people coming and 2:11:44.080 --> 2:11:46.600 testify against it in New York and the rest of 2:11:46.600 --> 2:11:49.680 the legislature doesn't see the bill it's decided by the 2:11:50.280 --> 2:11:52.160 you know, the head of the House, the head of 2:11:52.160 --> 2:11:55.280 the Senate, and the governor. And that's what happened, you know, 2:11:55.360 --> 2:11:59.080 the other day in New York. That the thing I'm 2:11:59.120 --> 2:12:01.800 a little bit guilty of is, you know, I've lived 2:12:01.800 --> 2:12:05.680 in a lot of states where you didn't feel that 2:12:05.920 --> 2:12:11.480 you're rights are being infringed down, and you become not 2:12:11.480 --> 2:12:14.440 only passive, you just you don't you're not aware of 2:12:14.560 --> 2:12:17.920 what's going on. You become passive about issues like you know, 2:12:18.240 --> 2:12:19.640 like I've just lived a lot of states like that. 2:12:19.680 --> 2:12:22.720 I spent time in Alaska, spent time in Montana. You 2:12:22.800 --> 2:12:26.720 just kind of lose sight of what happens. I lived 2:12:26.720 --> 2:12:31.560 in New York for a while, and living there, I 2:12:32.200 --> 2:12:39.640 really felt um like kind of like victimized. And you've 2:12:39.680 --> 2:12:41.320 got the sense that sort of like there was a 2:12:41.560 --> 2:12:47.720 there was a tacit governmental disapproval of your perspective and lifestyle, 2:12:49.120 --> 2:12:52.520 and it made to the point where you're engaged in 2:12:52.600 --> 2:12:56.480 lawful activities and you're someone who's accustomed to like enjoying 2:12:56.520 --> 2:13:00.800 certain liberties, you know, not enjoying, but actually sizing liberties 2:13:00.800 --> 2:13:03.600 and rights, and you come up against a system where 2:13:03.600 --> 2:13:05.480 you're like, man, I feel like the system is in 2:13:05.520 --> 2:13:10.560 some ways designed to make it very hard, to make 2:13:10.560 --> 2:13:14.360 it very hard for me to be above the books. 2:13:14.560 --> 2:13:18.080 I had to have a while where I could only 2:13:18.520 --> 2:13:20.839 you had to register everything, and you can only register 2:13:20.920 --> 2:13:24.320 them at a certain cadence. And being in the business 2:13:24.320 --> 2:13:29.960 that I'm in, um, it wound up being like restrictive, 2:13:30.760 --> 2:13:35.000 restricting me to carry about what I view as a 2:13:35.120 --> 2:13:41.960 legitimate business enterprise and being there, but then also seeing 2:13:42.680 --> 2:13:45.400 evidence of the way that the people who don't care 2:13:45.440 --> 2:13:50.360 about doing things by the book, how they operated, and 2:13:50.400 --> 2:13:53.080 it just felt like and then and then you had 2:13:53.120 --> 2:13:55.560 like this heightened sense and then you developed this like 2:13:55.680 --> 2:13:57.800 really heightened sense of losing your rights. You're like, oh, 2:13:57.840 --> 2:13:59.400 you know, I want to there's something I should be 2:13:59.400 --> 2:14:02.640 involved in. And then eventually like out of there and 2:14:02.920 --> 2:14:04.840 take off and kind of forget about the whole thing 2:14:04.880 --> 2:14:07.200 again because you take for granted and you can have 2:14:07.440 --> 2:14:10.040 a you can have a rifle in your truck and 2:14:10.040 --> 2:14:13.440 it doesn't need to be in a hard case, and 2:14:13.480 --> 2:14:16.040 you can lend your body your gun, and you can 2:14:16.120 --> 2:14:18.120 have a closet that has a few cases the AMMO, 2:14:18.200 --> 2:14:22.000 and you lose well, I mean so at the State 2:14:22.080 --> 2:14:26.840 of the Industry UM event at the Shot Show are 2:14:28.440 --> 2:14:32.360 UM CEO Steve Sinnetti spoke to this this sort of 2:14:32.440 --> 2:14:36.160 very issue the you know the that in America, you know, 2:14:36.200 --> 2:14:39.560 I have the right to enjoy my activities. I like, 2:14:40.000 --> 2:14:41.960 you don't have to like hunting, you don't have to 2:14:42.000 --> 2:14:44.640 like shooting, but you should respect that I do. And 2:14:44.680 --> 2:14:47.200 you should respect that I should have the freedom to 2:14:47.240 --> 2:14:51.560 engage in these lawful activities. Uh. And you know you're 2:14:51.560 --> 2:14:56.320 infringing upon my liberty, my freedom. You're not making uh 2:14:56.440 --> 2:14:59.800 the world a safer place. You're just you're just restricting 2:14:59.840 --> 2:15:02.919 my rights. And you know, in America you should respect 2:15:03.400 --> 2:15:05.360 you know, you don't have to agree with other people, 2:15:05.400 --> 2:15:07.560 but you should respect that they have the right to 2:15:07.600 --> 2:15:10.440 do these things and it's not causing problems. And to 2:15:10.520 --> 2:15:13.760 your point, all these I mean you hear it. It's 2:15:13.760 --> 2:15:17.160 almost cliche, but it's true. All these con control laws 2:15:17.240 --> 2:15:20.920 only impact the law body. We had Mark Robinson, the 2:15:20.920 --> 2:15:27.040 guy from the YouTube of Greenville's, North Carolina. You know, 2:15:27.200 --> 2:15:29.560 I'm going to obey the law, but the criminal is 2:15:29.600 --> 2:15:33.840 not right. So all these laws don't don't stop the 2:15:33.840 --> 2:15:36.080 bad guy, right, I mean, the criminal is not going 2:15:36.120 --> 2:15:37.840 to pay attention to the law. I mean it's kind 2:15:37.840 --> 2:15:41.760 of definitionaliz I mean that's and so take the case 2:15:41.840 --> 2:15:44.080 now that's going to the Supreme Court. Finally after ten 2:15:44.160 --> 2:15:48.080 years from hell, are the is finally taken a case. 2:15:48.680 --> 2:15:52.240 Now that you know you have uh cabanals on the 2:15:52.240 --> 2:15:55.360 court and gorse It's on the court, they've taken a case. Thankfully, 2:15:56.240 --> 2:15:58.800 We'll see what happens. But I think it's hard to 2:15:58.840 --> 2:16:02.320 imagine in this case. It um Supreme Court doesn't rule 2:16:02.320 --> 2:16:04.160 that a slam dun't to me. I mean I hate 2:16:04.160 --> 2:16:06.760 as they say that. Yeah, I mean it's so in 2:16:06.800 --> 2:16:10.000 New York City you can only have a pistol in 2:16:10.040 --> 2:16:13.480 your home with the permit, and you can take the 2:16:13.480 --> 2:16:16.040 pistol and go to a shooting range, and there are 2:16:16.200 --> 2:16:18.440 seven in the city within the five boroughs the City 2:16:18.480 --> 2:16:21.680 of New York and back. But the gun has to 2:16:21.680 --> 2:16:24.240 be unloaded. It has to be in a heart case 2:16:24.360 --> 2:16:30.959 and locked. Right. Um. Now, let's say you live in 2:16:30.960 --> 2:16:36.560 in uh in co Op City, in in New York, 2:16:36.600 --> 2:16:40.280 which is close to the Westchester County border, and you 2:16:40.320 --> 2:16:42.720 want to go to uh shooting range. It's opened up 2:16:42.720 --> 2:16:45.560 in in Westchester County. You're outside of the city of 2:16:45.600 --> 2:16:50.280 New York. You cannot take your pistol. Put it unloaded, 2:16:50.320 --> 2:16:52.200 put it in the case, locked the case, and go 2:16:52.280 --> 2:16:54.959 to Westchester, to that range in Western County across the 2:16:55.000 --> 2:16:59.480 city line. You've committed a crime. Let's say you have 2:16:59.520 --> 2:17:02.680 a weekend house or something like in uh in the 2:17:02.680 --> 2:17:08.240 Cat's Skill. You can't take that pistol unloaded, Put it 2:17:08.240 --> 2:17:10.960 in the case, lock it, and drive to your weekend 2:17:10.959 --> 2:17:14.040 house in the Catskills. You've committed a crime. Let's say 2:17:14.240 --> 2:17:16.520 you decide, I'm out of here. I can't take New 2:17:16.560 --> 2:17:22.520 York City anymore. I'm moving to wherever, Montana. You can't 2:17:23.640 --> 2:17:27.600 you can't take that fire. You can't take that that pistol. 2:17:27.720 --> 2:17:29.959 Put it unloaded, put it in the case, locked the case, 2:17:30.280 --> 2:17:35.080 and drive to Montana. You've committed a crime. In the 2:17:35.160 --> 2:17:38.280 District Court, the Federal District Court, and the U. S. 2:17:38.360 --> 2:17:41.280 Couarter Appeals for the Second Circuit sits in Manhattan ruled 2:17:41.280 --> 2:17:44.480 that that that did not violate the Second Amendment, like 2:17:44.560 --> 2:17:46.840 because you know, the city had an interest in like, 2:17:47.320 --> 2:17:49.240 you know, not having guns on the you know, on 2:17:49.280 --> 2:17:53.760 the street. Now, I don't know one dang banger criminal 2:17:54.160 --> 2:17:58.400 drug dealer in the Five boroughs. That is a buying 2:17:58.480 --> 2:18:00.800 by that law, right, I mean, I was just making 2:18:01.160 --> 2:18:03.879 New York City safer. I just cannot imagine I had 2:18:03.920 --> 2:18:06.480 to spend that that that court doesn't. I had just 2:18:06.560 --> 2:18:09.760 been hundreds of dollars for a permit. You're lucky to 2:18:09.800 --> 2:18:11.720 get one. And there was an article just the other 2:18:11.800 --> 2:18:15.280 day about the only people uh in New York City 2:18:15.400 --> 2:18:17.600 who are able to get carry permits are you know, 2:18:17.640 --> 2:18:21.120 the rich and famous. Yeah, and there's a whole big 2:18:21.160 --> 2:18:26.120 scandal going on about bribes that we're being taking, well 2:18:26.360 --> 2:18:31.280 within the Pistol Licensing Unit, within the NYPD. You know, 2:18:31.440 --> 2:18:36.560 some guy was caught taking bribes to clear permits. Yeah, 2:18:36.640 --> 2:18:39.000 So explain the Supreme Court case it's coming up. So 2:18:39.080 --> 2:18:42.120 that's the New York soone the individual challenge, there's a 2:18:42.200 --> 2:18:46.160 lawsuit that challenged this this requirement in New York City's law. 2:18:46.320 --> 2:18:48.640 So it's not that someone got busted and appealed up 2:18:48.680 --> 2:18:50.680 to the Supreme Court. I want to be able to 2:18:50.720 --> 2:18:53.199 you know, I should be able to go outside the city. 2:18:53.840 --> 2:18:56.680 The laws on constitutions right, that this list law is 2:18:56.720 --> 2:19:01.400 on constitutional on the Second Amendment and also violates the 2:19:01.480 --> 2:19:03.400 right you know, you have a constitutional right to travel, 2:19:03.440 --> 2:19:07.080 so I can't take my pistol with me and and that. Um, 2:19:07.160 --> 2:19:10.440 so they sued, They lost to the district court, they 2:19:10.480 --> 2:19:12.360 lost at the Court of Appeals, and now Supreme Court 2:19:12.360 --> 2:19:15.520 has agreed to hear the case. And I have a 2:19:15.520 --> 2:19:19.959 hard time imagining that the Supreme Court doesn't rule that 2:19:19.959 --> 2:19:23.080 that it goes too far, that that violates the Second Amendment, 2:19:24.200 --> 2:19:27.600 because the Court and Heller, for example, has already said, uh, 2:19:27.600 --> 2:19:31.960 and the McDonald you have the right. The Second Amendment 2:19:31.959 --> 2:19:34.240 involves two rights, the right to carry, the right to 2:19:34.360 --> 2:19:37.800 keep and the right to carry. Two rights. Right, it's 2:19:37.840 --> 2:19:40.720 not one, it's two rights. Uh. And that those are 2:19:40.760 --> 2:19:43.880 common law rights that predated the Constitution. The Second Amendment 2:19:43.920 --> 2:19:48.240 didn't create those rights. It protected them, right, but those 2:19:48.320 --> 2:19:51.520 rights were already existing under English common law that was 2:19:51.560 --> 2:19:55.879 adopted by the United States, you know, after we won 2:19:55.920 --> 2:20:01.200 the War of Independence. And uh, the Court has said 2:20:01.240 --> 2:20:04.440 that the right to bear arms means to have it 2:20:04.480 --> 2:20:07.560 on your person to carry it. So there have been 2:20:07.600 --> 2:20:10.560 some courts like the Seventh Circuit that you know, you 2:20:10.560 --> 2:20:13.160 you and we've seen it in in d C. You 2:20:13.200 --> 2:20:15.560 have the right to carry a firearm self protection, which 2:20:15.560 --> 2:20:19.120 is why now every single state, UM in the country 2:20:19.520 --> 2:20:22.920 has to allow some level of of right to carry. 2:20:23.480 --> 2:20:26.360 Right that the last state was I think Wisconsin and 2:20:26.520 --> 2:20:29.480 Illinois with like the last two states that you know, 2:20:29.520 --> 2:20:32.560 even in the District Columbia. So now there are different 2:20:32.680 --> 2:20:36.320 like some states are shallice you. Some states now increasingly 2:20:36.920 --> 2:20:40.560 including now most recently South Dakota, are a constitutional right 2:20:40.600 --> 2:20:43.960 to carry. You don't need the government's permission. UM. New 2:20:43.959 --> 2:20:47.920 Hampshire changed recently. UM. So that's a trend, that's positive 2:20:47.920 --> 2:20:53.640 trend that's happening. UM. And and uh. Other states that 2:20:53.800 --> 2:20:55.800 you know, you have to prove, like in Maryland, you 2:20:55.840 --> 2:20:57.959 have to like you know, prove you have a need 2:20:58.600 --> 2:21:01.160 uh and get the blessing of the government in order 2:21:01.200 --> 2:21:04.720 to carry a firearm for self protection. Interestingly, the District 2:21:04.720 --> 2:21:09.160 of Columbia, it's it's actually through the court decisions essentially 2:21:09.200 --> 2:21:14.800 a shall issue jurisdiction. They don't can't use their discretion 2:21:14.879 --> 2:21:16.840 to deny you. And we see that a lot right 2:21:16.840 --> 2:21:21.440 in other parts of the country where you know, I 2:21:21.520 --> 2:21:23.520 like you, I'll give you one. I don't like you 2:21:23.560 --> 2:21:26.240 so much you didn't contribute to my campaign or you know, 2:21:26.320 --> 2:21:28.600 like I don't like you or you're not my buddy, 2:21:28.800 --> 2:21:30.240 I'm not gonna give it to you. And you see 2:21:30.280 --> 2:21:32.119 a lot of abuse to that discretion that takes place. 2:21:32.320 --> 2:21:35.000 It's probably having in California right now, is it's county 2:21:35.000 --> 2:21:38.200 by county, the county sheriff gets to decide, Well, Los 2:21:38.240 --> 2:21:40.959 Angeles County, good luck. You know, you go out to 2:21:41.000 --> 2:21:43.480 current county where it's more rural, and the county sheriff 2:21:43.480 --> 2:21:45.840 out there is good with it. He'll he'll unless he's 2:21:45.840 --> 2:21:47.600 got a need for you to not carry, he's gonna 2:21:47.600 --> 2:21:51.880 give you an apartment. So you're you know, your constitution 2:21:52.000 --> 2:21:56.560 rights shouldn't be determined by the happenstance of geography. Remember 2:21:56.680 --> 2:22:00.560 years ago, when my father went to get his conceived permit, 2:22:00.640 --> 2:22:04.560 he had to go up in front of the like, uh, 2:22:04.600 --> 2:22:06.040 he had to go to the sheriff's office to go 2:22:06.120 --> 2:22:08.320 up in front of like a four Some states have 2:22:08.440 --> 2:22:11.920 that Connecticut. This is a long time, but yeah, yeah, 2:22:11.920 --> 2:22:13.600 he had to go and uh and he went from 2:22:13.640 --> 2:22:14.880 I can't remember who it was, but like he went 2:22:14.920 --> 2:22:16.680 down the sheriff's office and they had a panel of 2:22:16.720 --> 2:22:19.920 people with the conduct a little interview and he got 2:22:20.080 --> 2:22:23.560 a he got his his concealed carrier, I remember, and 2:22:23.560 --> 2:22:27.160 then but the only thing he had with the twenty two. 2:22:27.280 --> 2:22:29.400 To buy my first handgun in North Carolina, I had 2:22:29.400 --> 2:22:31.720 to get permission from the county sheriff to buy just 2:22:31.760 --> 2:22:35.440 to buy a handgun. Lots changes. Yeah, only what do 2:22:35.480 --> 2:22:38.560 you got, man? I guess The one thing we haven't 2:22:38.640 --> 2:22:40.640 touched on, maybe we could touch on is what's UH 2:22:40.760 --> 2:22:47.320 the NSF doing in a proactive way about gun violence. So, actually, 2:22:47.320 --> 2:22:51.240 the industry is the long history of of having real 2:22:51.320 --> 2:22:55.520 solutions and pursuing initiatives that you know, will we think 2:22:56.320 --> 2:23:00.320 make for saying for communities. UH So one exam apple 2:23:00.879 --> 2:23:05.280 is um our Project Child Safe campaign, which we've been 2:23:05.280 --> 2:23:11.280 doing since about n where we the industry distribute UM 2:23:11.520 --> 2:23:15.200 firearm safety education kits that include a free gunlock, a 2:23:15.240 --> 2:23:18.840 cable style gunlock which fits the most number of actions. 2:23:20.400 --> 2:23:24.080 We've distributed ready for this over thirty eight million kits, 2:23:24.600 --> 2:23:28.720 thirty eight million locks in every state and US territory, 2:23:29.000 --> 2:23:33.560 partnering with over fifteen thousand local law enforcement agencies as 2:23:33.560 --> 2:23:37.439 our distribution partner. We're very proud of that. We continue 2:23:37.480 --> 2:23:41.279 to do that and as adjunct to that, since UH 2:23:42.560 --> 2:23:47.920 ninety six ninety seven, manufacturers have been providing a locking 2:23:47.920 --> 2:23:51.560 device with each new firearm that they shipped from the factory. 2:23:52.240 --> 2:23:54.720 So between the two it's well over a hundred million 2:23:55.920 --> 2:23:58.360 locks distributed around the country. And so how would you 2:23:58.360 --> 2:24:00.800 participate in the first one? You just go down. So 2:24:00.600 --> 2:24:04.199 we get requests all the time. In fact, the demand 2:24:04.760 --> 2:24:08.800 outstrips the supply of locks by three to one. Law 2:24:08.879 --> 2:24:11.480 enforcement agencies know about the program all of the country 2:24:11.520 --> 2:24:13.480 that calls say hey, can we get you know, some locks. 2:24:13.520 --> 2:24:16.360 We're gonna do a you know, a community event, We're 2:24:16.400 --> 2:24:19.039 gonna do a safety program. We want to distribute these 2:24:21.080 --> 2:24:24.320 uh gunshot. When I was in Seattle, they would do 2:24:24.400 --> 2:24:28.280 project up there, right, So we're really really proud of that. 2:24:28.360 --> 2:24:32.360 And not exclusively, but I think we've helped contribute to 2:24:32.440 --> 2:24:37.879 the decline and accidents involving firearms UM. You know, accidental 2:24:37.920 --> 2:24:41.360 deaths involving firearms is UM at the lowest level it's 2:24:41.360 --> 2:24:44.200 ever been since record keeping began in nineteen o three. 2:24:44.240 --> 2:24:48.480 It's incredibly rare, particularly for children. You know, there are 2:24:48.520 --> 2:24:51.879 some states that don't have any accidents involving children. Accidental 2:24:51.959 --> 2:24:56.160 death voming farms. You far more likely UM to die from, 2:24:56.400 --> 2:25:00.400 you know, a host of other causes, drowning, fires, reasoning 2:25:00.840 --> 2:25:05.000 that you're um, you know, with an accident involving a firearm, 2:25:05.120 --> 2:25:08.160 it makes news when it happens, right, even involves a child. 2:25:08.240 --> 2:25:10.960 But and but so we distribute these locks. That's one 2:25:10.959 --> 2:25:13.760 program we do. We also have been doing with a 2:25:13.840 --> 2:25:18.560 t F since campaign we called Don't Lie for the 2:25:18.560 --> 2:25:22.560 Other Guy. That is to assist law enforcement in educating 2:25:22.560 --> 2:25:25.280 and training retailers UH and their staff on how to 2:25:25.320 --> 2:25:30.280 be better able to identify and prevent illegal straw purchases UH. 2:25:30.320 --> 2:25:33.880 And then a public service announcement component to the program 2:25:33.920 --> 2:25:36.560 to get the word out in the community that it's 2:25:36.600 --> 2:25:38.600 a serious crime to buy a gun for somebody else 2:25:38.600 --> 2:25:41.080 who can't UM and that if you do that, you know, 2:25:41.200 --> 2:25:45.600 you lie on the three UH, that it's a felony. 2:25:45.680 --> 2:25:47.240 You can go to prison for ten years and you 2:25:47.280 --> 2:25:49.240 get a fine of up to a quarter million dollars. 2:25:49.600 --> 2:25:51.560 For those of you that have never filled out that form, 2:25:51.680 --> 2:25:56.400 the question is basically that you're are you the actual yeah, 2:25:56.600 --> 2:25:59.640 and if you're not UM, the actual buyer, it's not 2:25:59.640 --> 2:26:06.240 actually for you. So you're you know, UH, your fell 2:26:06.360 --> 2:26:09.000 and boyfriend gets out of prison and wants, you know, 2:26:09.080 --> 2:26:11.800 and convince his uh, you know, his girlfriend to go 2:26:11.879 --> 2:26:13.960 into a store and buy a handgun for him because 2:26:14.000 --> 2:26:16.000 he's gonna use it to go rob the seven eleven. 2:26:16.400 --> 2:26:18.880 And she says, I'm the actual buyer. That's a crime 2:26:19.280 --> 2:26:23.439 and you can go to prison for that, and so um. 2:26:23.520 --> 2:26:25.240 You know, we've been doing that campaign for a long 2:26:25.320 --> 2:26:28.800 time with a t F as our partner. There's educational 2:26:28.879 --> 2:26:32.640 material for the retailer to to you know, help educate 2:26:32.680 --> 2:26:34.320 their staff want to be on the lookout for what 2:26:34.440 --> 2:26:36.560 kind of questions to ask I mean, and it can 2:26:36.600 --> 2:26:40.480 be very difficult for the the retailer to discern if 2:26:40.480 --> 2:26:42.760 somebody comes in and fills out the form and that 2:26:42.959 --> 2:26:46.160 doesn't go anything that would cause you to be suspicious. Um. 2:26:46.200 --> 2:26:48.640 But again, also we have the public awareness campaign to 2:26:48.680 --> 2:26:51.360 tell the would be strung purchaser long before they were 2:26:51.400 --> 2:26:53.840 walking to the store that you know, don't lie for 2:26:53.879 --> 2:26:55.680 the other guy. You can go to prison. So that's 2:26:55.680 --> 2:26:57.360 another program we've even do it for a long time, 2:26:57.520 --> 2:27:00.520 very successful, you know, the national camp, We've done it 2:27:00.560 --> 2:27:04.080 all over the country. We've distributed the kits, the retailer 2:27:04.120 --> 2:27:07.240 education kits to every retailer in the country free. You 2:27:07.280 --> 2:27:09.920 know you want one, we'll send it, you know. We 2:27:09.920 --> 2:27:12.880 we make it available at the dealer educational summars we 2:27:12.959 --> 2:27:14.560 go on at the shot show and things like that. 2:27:15.600 --> 2:27:18.039 We're also we talked about the Fixed Next campaign. We're 2:27:18.120 --> 2:27:21.320 very proud of that. UM, you know, that's that's been 2:27:21.480 --> 2:27:25.400 great success. We're now partnering with a t F and 2:27:25.480 --> 2:27:29.320 another initiative called Operations Secure Store. So a t F 2:27:29.440 --> 2:27:32.039 came to us a little while back and and and 2:27:32.360 --> 2:27:36.800 identified a troubling trend where burglaries of gun stores were 2:27:36.840 --> 2:27:40.360 on the rise and they were stealing you know, more 2:27:40.360 --> 2:27:44.240 and more guns from these burglaries. Uh, you know, some 2:27:44.320 --> 2:27:49.080 pretty significant increase primarily gang activity. Um, the you know, 2:27:49.160 --> 2:27:51.920 sevent guns that they were stealing, their handguns and those 2:27:51.959 --> 2:27:54.560 guns hit the street and it's not you know, these 2:27:54.560 --> 2:27:57.680 are bad guys. And so we've been working with a 2:27:57.760 --> 2:28:01.440 TF on Operations Secure Store to raise awareness within the 2:28:01.480 --> 2:28:06.080 dealer community. You know that this can happen to you. Um, 2:28:06.959 --> 2:28:09.560 and you know what steps can you take that are 2:28:09.600 --> 2:28:13.959 appropriate for your business to reduce the risk, Like can 2:28:14.040 --> 2:28:15.879 you put the guns away in a gun save? Can 2:28:15.920 --> 2:28:20.440 you put put them in smash resistant display cases. You know, 2:28:20.640 --> 2:28:25.880 have you know closed circuit you know TV monitors and 2:28:25.959 --> 2:28:29.480 cameras and make sure you've got you know, solid locks 2:28:29.480 --> 2:28:31.240 on your doors and things like that. But I mean 2:28:31.280 --> 2:28:35.520 it's it's um. You know. What we see is, you know, 2:28:36.200 --> 2:28:39.160 the bad guys will take a truck, steal a truck 2:28:39.200 --> 2:28:41.320 and drive it right through the front door. Or you 2:28:41.400 --> 2:28:44.240 got bars and gates on the window, or ballard's in front, 2:28:44.280 --> 2:28:46.560 they'll just hook up a chain, put it on it 2:28:46.840 --> 2:28:48.760 and blow it right off. Or they come in from 2:28:48.800 --> 2:28:51.600 they'll breaking to the nail salon or something next door 2:28:51.640 --> 2:28:54.680 and they'll go intrough the wall. They'll just punch through 2:28:54.680 --> 2:28:57.240 the wall or through the roof. I mean all kinds 2:28:57.280 --> 2:28:59.640 of you know ways of getting in there in and 2:28:59.680 --> 2:29:01.680 out a short period of time and steal you know, 2:29:01.680 --> 2:29:04.600 a lot can steal a lot of guns. Fortunately, the 2:29:04.640 --> 2:29:08.480 most recent information that we gotten with a TF is 2:29:08.959 --> 2:29:12.120 that you know, we've bent the curve and the rate 2:29:12.160 --> 2:29:14.039 of these are starting to go down. The number of 2:29:14.040 --> 2:29:17.800 guns stolen starting to go down, and ATF believes that's 2:29:18.040 --> 2:29:20.720 been in part to the cooperative effort to get the 2:29:20.720 --> 2:29:25.000 word out the dealers that they're reacting in a responsible 2:29:25.040 --> 2:29:28.200 way to protect their inventory from being stolen. I mean, 2:29:28.280 --> 2:29:31.119 I really applaud a t F whenever this occurs. They respond, 2:29:31.320 --> 2:29:34.279 even if it's one gun that stolen, they come in force, 2:29:34.840 --> 2:29:38.000 they respond right away, They work with the retailer, you know, 2:29:38.040 --> 2:29:40.120 and they try to recover the guns as quickly as 2:29:40.120 --> 2:29:43.160 they can. And as part of this effort, if at 2:29:43.280 --> 2:29:45.720 F puts out a reward for information and a SECEPH 2:29:45.720 --> 2:29:47.959 will max that reward, so instead of like a five 2:29:48.000 --> 2:29:52.160 thousand dollar reward, it's now ten thousand. And that's a 2:29:52.240 --> 2:29:55.160 check I don't mind writing, you know, um, And we 2:29:55.200 --> 2:29:57.800 do write those checks from time to time. But we 2:29:57.800 --> 2:30:00.520 are happy to do that because it means getting the 2:30:00.560 --> 2:30:02.640 bad guys and we're very happy to see when these 2:30:02.640 --> 2:30:05.920 guys get sentenced. Uh, you know, they really get uh, 2:30:06.200 --> 2:30:07.800 they get hammered. Did you just put them away for 2:30:07.800 --> 2:30:11.640 a long time. As part of that, on the NSSF side, 2:30:12.000 --> 2:30:17.520 we're supporting legislation called the Farms the Federal Farms Licensee 2:30:17.560 --> 2:30:21.960 Protection Act, which would increase the maximum penalty that someone 2:30:21.959 --> 2:30:25.519 could get in prison for stealing guns from a licensee 2:30:25.520 --> 2:30:29.160 from ten years to twenty years and impost mandatory minimums 2:30:29.160 --> 2:30:34.359 for burglaries and robberies. Robberies fortunately are still pretty rare. UM, 2:30:34.480 --> 2:30:38.240 but you know, we've seen homicides of retailers in the 2:30:38.240 --> 2:30:41.920 commission of a robbery. UM, so that's concerning, and we 2:30:42.040 --> 2:30:44.960 worry that, you know, if you're sort of hard in 2:30:45.040 --> 2:30:47.240 the store, then they'll just come in during the daytime 2:30:47.240 --> 2:30:49.360 and come in a robbery. So we're really worried about that. 2:30:49.400 --> 2:30:51.440 Although you would think rapping a gun shop would be 2:30:51.440 --> 2:30:55.680 a special kind of stupid, but it does happen. Uh, fortunately, 2:30:55.760 --> 2:31:00.000 pretty rare. So we're working on that legislation. It's um 2:31:00.480 --> 2:31:02.039 you know, we hope to have it reintroduced in the 2:31:02.080 --> 2:31:06.200 House soon and Centatogram introduced the letter legislation in the 2:31:06.200 --> 2:31:09.560 past and the Senate, and we believe he'll reintroduce it again. 2:31:09.600 --> 2:31:11.640 We're trying to build support for that. We think that's 2:31:11.640 --> 2:31:13.920 a you know, that's not a gun control bill, that's 2:31:13.959 --> 2:31:16.680 a pro law enforcement, pro safety bill. The support of 2:31:16.720 --> 2:31:19.760 all the major law enforcement groups in the country behind that, 2:31:19.800 --> 2:31:22.480 so we're really really proud of that. And the other newer, 2:31:22.840 --> 2:31:25.280 fairly new initiative we've been working on is with the 2:31:25.320 --> 2:31:29.920 American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, which is the largest suicide 2:31:29.920 --> 2:31:33.039 prevention organization in the country, but they actually came to 2:31:33.160 --> 2:31:36.760 us to partner with us to try to help address 2:31:36.800 --> 2:31:40.240 the issue. And I think you probably know about six 2:31:40.680 --> 2:31:46.680 six of gun deaths are suicides, and so that's you know, 2:31:47.200 --> 2:31:49.680 most people don't even hear, like you know X number 2:31:49.720 --> 2:31:55.160 of gun deaths. Two thirds of those are our suicides UM, 2:31:55.200 --> 2:31:59.560 which is a terrible, terrible thing. UH suicides of all 2:31:59.600 --> 2:32:04.160 the fire arm and when a firearm is used commit suicide, 2:32:04.200 --> 2:32:10.440 it's it's lethal and effective about the time. So the 2:32:10.480 --> 2:32:13.480 American Foundation for Suicide Prevention as a goal that we're 2:32:13.520 --> 2:32:17.119 helping them to reach, they want to reduce UM suicides 2:32:17.160 --> 2:32:21.120 by and the only way they can impact that or 2:32:21.200 --> 2:32:24.520 reach that goal is by addressing firearms related suicides because 2:32:24.560 --> 2:32:27.520 of so many of them are committed with are done 2:32:27.520 --> 2:32:30.600 with firearms. So we're working with them to get information 2:32:30.640 --> 2:32:34.320 out to ranges and retailers UM. You know through that 2:32:34.440 --> 2:32:37.360 they have state chapters and we're in our outreach to 2:32:37.400 --> 2:32:40.240 our members and other even non member retails. Give it 2:32:40.280 --> 2:32:43.480 to anybody, you know how you know, what are the 2:32:43.480 --> 2:32:46.120 things you can be on the lookout for. You know, 2:32:46.280 --> 2:32:49.200 what do you do if it happens, and unfortunately ran 2:32:49.320 --> 2:32:51.360 you see it happening at ranges from time to time, 2:32:52.000 --> 2:32:55.000 and it's very troubling for the people who work at 2:32:55.000 --> 2:32:58.520 the range. When this happens. It's very difficult. I mean 2:32:58.560 --> 2:33:02.520 it's um you know, uh most of the time the 2:33:02.600 --> 2:33:05.160 person doesn't you know they're coming where in a sign obviously, 2:33:05.280 --> 2:33:09.400 so it's a challenge, but it encourages people, not you know, 2:33:09.440 --> 2:33:12.320 gun owners, you know, information that goes across the counter 2:33:12.360 --> 2:33:15.600 to the consumer to have that difficult conversation. If you 2:33:15.640 --> 2:33:18.879 see somebody you know, you're close with, a family member 2:33:18.959 --> 2:33:23.680 or friend, do you think is struggling that might be depressed, Um, 2:33:23.959 --> 2:33:28.640 had a death in the family, you know, bad news 2:33:28.640 --> 2:33:31.039 on medical or the lost their job or something like that. 2:33:31.080 --> 2:33:34.800 Are just struggling financially, you know, to reach out to 2:33:35.000 --> 2:33:38.240 offer assistance to you know, trying to point them in 2:33:38.240 --> 2:33:40.000 a direction where they can get help. I mean there's 2:33:40.040 --> 2:33:42.560 lots of suicide prevention hotlines and things like that. So 2:33:42.720 --> 2:33:46.240 just to try to encourage people to have that conversation 2:33:47.240 --> 2:33:50.080 if somebody is struggling, you know, maybe it's somebody in 2:33:50.080 --> 2:33:52.879 your family. You know, if your firearms aren't locked up 2:33:52.879 --> 2:33:55.560 when not in use. You know, maybe you should do that, 2:33:55.680 --> 2:33:58.880 maybe you should take the firearms, offer to take the 2:33:58.920 --> 2:34:01.080 firearms from somebody if they're you know, and a lot 2:34:01.120 --> 2:34:03.360 of times we hear that people say, yeah, just take 2:34:03.400 --> 2:34:06.240 them for me, like because I'm in a you know, 2:34:06.280 --> 2:34:08.920 in a dark place or whatever. So you know, just 2:34:09.040 --> 2:34:12.480 encouraging people to have that conversation, to offer help, try 2:34:12.520 --> 2:34:15.320 to just make sure that firearms are not you know, 2:34:15.440 --> 2:34:18.440 you want to reduce access to lethal means. And that's 2:34:18.440 --> 2:34:20.879 what's really about working with the Veterans Administration and the 2:34:20.920 --> 2:34:24.560 same thing obviously we all know about, you know, returning 2:34:24.600 --> 2:34:29.199 veterans twenty two days commit suicide, again often with firearms. 2:34:29.480 --> 2:34:32.199 So we're working with the Veterans Administration on suicide prevention 2:34:32.240 --> 2:34:35.039 as well. We work with them in the past with 2:34:35.160 --> 2:34:38.480 Child Safe and provided you know, hundreds of thousands of 2:34:39.320 --> 2:34:42.200 Project Child Safe kids to the Veterans Administration that and 2:34:42.200 --> 2:34:44.240 they gave them to returning vets when we were drawing 2:34:44.240 --> 2:34:47.320 down from from Iroq and Afghanistan and big numbers, so 2:34:47.320 --> 2:34:49.560 we're very proud of that. And and you we're continuing 2:34:49.600 --> 2:34:52.520 to work with them on on their new initiative to 2:34:52.560 --> 2:34:55.800 try to help address the suicide issue with veterans, So 2:34:55.840 --> 2:34:59.360 it's you know, kind of teaming up with and we're 2:34:59.720 --> 2:35:04.240 at are UM the shooting at the school in UH, 2:35:04.520 --> 2:35:09.400 Texas in Santa Fe. We work with the Governor's office 2:35:09.520 --> 2:35:12.119 to bring child Safe to the state, and we've actually 2:35:12.120 --> 2:35:14.280 received a million dollar grant or in the process of 2:35:14.320 --> 2:35:16.920 receiving a million dollar grant from the State of Texas 2:35:16.920 --> 2:35:19.320 to run Project Child Safe in the state of Texas 2:35:19.600 --> 2:35:23.480 as part of Governor Abbott's response to that tragedy. So 2:35:23.560 --> 2:35:25.120 we we we do a lot. I mean, you know, 2:35:25.120 --> 2:35:27.959 people don't know we do these things. I mean we're 2:35:27.959 --> 2:35:31.760 you know, but we're trying to make sure policymakers understand 2:35:31.760 --> 2:35:35.680 that the industry is proactive pursuing real solutions to make 2:35:36.080 --> 2:35:39.680 for safer communities. I also having a conversation there a 2:35:39.760 --> 2:35:43.360 night about UH suicide and I've lost a very close 2:35:43.400 --> 2:35:46.320 friend and our our our body j recently lost a 2:35:46.320 --> 2:35:50.840 close friend and he was saying that to the annoyance 2:35:50.879 --> 2:35:55.760 of his other friends. Now he's always checking in with 2:35:55.800 --> 2:36:01.160 people and pushing a little bit how you doing, how 2:36:01.200 --> 2:36:03.280 you really doing, because he says now he was so 2:36:03.440 --> 2:36:08.880 blindsided by it UM that he's nervous now of like 2:36:08.959 --> 2:36:14.119 missing missing cues among his friends and colleagues. He said 2:36:14.120 --> 2:36:16.160 it made him like he now lives in this world, 2:36:16.160 --> 2:36:18.920 have been like very aware of where where people are 2:36:18.959 --> 2:36:21.520 around you. Yeah, you hear that, Like people say, I 2:36:21.600 --> 2:36:25.480 never knew, I wish I had asked, I wish I knew. Yeah, 2:36:25.800 --> 2:36:27.600 he wonders if he had missed something, and he doesn't 2:36:27.600 --> 2:36:30.000 want to miss something next time, you know, And look 2:36:30.520 --> 2:36:33.600 a lot of times it's the person that chooses to 2:36:33.640 --> 2:36:36.960 do this. It's their own firearms. So there, you know, 2:36:37.520 --> 2:36:40.959 limitations is what you can do. But you know, if 2:36:41.080 --> 2:36:46.240 you're the you know, uh parent and you've got you know, 2:36:46.600 --> 2:36:49.800 a young adult or a teenager in the house, and 2:36:50.600 --> 2:36:53.360 you know you think that it might be an issue, 2:36:53.800 --> 2:36:57.080 make sure you firearms are secured and not accessible, you know, 2:36:57.160 --> 2:36:59.200 make sure the keys aren't out there or they or 2:36:59.200 --> 2:37:01.280 they don't know the common nation or or even like 2:37:01.560 --> 2:37:04.600 you know, have your body hold the firearms and you know, 2:37:04.680 --> 2:37:06.959 if you think and that's not anti gun, right, we're 2:37:06.959 --> 2:37:10.040 not saying bad guys. We're not saying just be responsible. 2:37:10.200 --> 2:37:13.800 That's person that's like common sense personal storage stuff, I mean, 2:37:14.160 --> 2:37:17.960 like our personal choice. We once we had young kids. 2:37:18.200 --> 2:37:19.560 I don't want to say that I didn't used to 2:37:19.600 --> 2:37:22.440 store guns carelessly because it was things that were in 2:37:22.480 --> 2:37:25.600 my own secure home. We're just grown ups living at 2:37:25.640 --> 2:37:29.400 home in a home. Once we had kids, different story, yeah, 2:37:29.400 --> 2:37:32.520 because they're very like, you know, they're really interested in 2:37:32.600 --> 2:37:34.959 what their dad's interested in, and so we had to 2:37:35.000 --> 2:37:38.560 adopt um for now we have a four year old, 2:37:38.680 --> 2:37:40.840 six year old, eight year old, we had to adopt 2:37:40.840 --> 2:37:44.039 a pretty I don't want to say rigid, but we 2:37:44.080 --> 2:37:48.200 we adopt a system that's twofold, where we do a 2:37:48.280 --> 2:37:52.240 locked cabinet and an in the locked cabinet, we do 2:37:52.320 --> 2:37:55.000 trigger locks. And it's and it took a while to 2:37:55.080 --> 2:37:59.160 train myself to not be lazy now and then, because 2:37:59.160 --> 2:38:01.800 it's like, oh, yeah, you're in a situation where you're 2:38:01.800 --> 2:38:04.720 working on something or cleaning it, and then something comes 2:38:04.800 --> 2:38:06.480 up and you gotta go do something and like force 2:38:06.520 --> 2:38:09.360 yourself to stick to your own system that you have 2:38:09.400 --> 2:38:11.360 put in place when you have young kids around. And 2:38:11.560 --> 2:38:13.160 that's the thing. That's the thing I like about Project 2:38:13.200 --> 2:38:17.039 Child Safe. It's like you're speaking to gun owners but 2:38:17.120 --> 2:38:20.039 in friendly terms and not you're you're coming at them 2:38:20.040 --> 2:38:25.040 from friendly terms and not like condemning what their decisions 2:38:25.080 --> 2:38:28.480 they've made are condemning them as a person. But you're saying, like, 2:38:28.600 --> 2:38:32.400 I understand where you're at. Um, here are some tools 2:38:32.440 --> 2:38:36.440 and practices to achieve what I know, And there's no 2:38:36.480 --> 2:38:39.400 one ice fits all. I mean, if someone has a 2:38:39.440 --> 2:38:43.960 firearm that's for personal protection and they wanted accessible, then 2:38:44.000 --> 2:38:46.840 there are ways you can approach that. You know, um, 2:38:46.879 --> 2:38:52.400 a lockbox, quick access lockbox, coming biometrics now or combinations, 2:38:52.680 --> 2:38:56.400 and that's one approach. But every firearm is capable of 2:38:56.440 --> 2:38:59.520 being secured right one way or another. Just yeah, there's 2:38:59.560 --> 2:39:02.200 plenty of way. There's plenty of ways for families to 2:39:02.240 --> 2:39:04.560 find assistant that works for them. And I think just 2:39:04.600 --> 2:39:06.680 the simple fact that you're aware of the issue and 2:39:06.760 --> 2:39:09.879 thinking about it um is a step in the right direction. 2:39:10.520 --> 2:39:13.879 The great irony recently that we've seen with it with 2:39:14.520 --> 2:39:18.320 I guess flattery is what does that they say about 2:39:18.400 --> 2:39:21.920 you of them? Invitation is the greatest form of flattery. 2:39:22.200 --> 2:39:24.640 What we have seen, it's not really this isn't really 2:39:24.879 --> 2:39:30.080 uh imitation, But what we've seen is UH gun control 2:39:30.120 --> 2:39:35.920 groups like Mom's Demand Action, getting Project Child Safe locks 2:39:35.959 --> 2:39:40.400 from the local police department and then like packaging them 2:39:40.400 --> 2:39:44.720 with their anti gun literature and distributing the house. Yeah, 2:39:44.760 --> 2:39:46.760 and like taking pictures and being proud of it. And 2:39:46.800 --> 2:39:50.560 we've like had to go back to our lawforce partners say, 2:39:50.600 --> 2:39:53.720 you know, that's not really what this is about, right, 2:39:53.760 --> 2:39:56.440 Like we we appreciate that they care about safety. And 2:39:56.440 --> 2:40:00.000 it's pretty ironic because here's a group that's funded by 2:40:00.280 --> 2:40:03.200 a multibillionaire and we say all the time, you know, 2:40:03.240 --> 2:40:05.959 the gun control groups, they don't have any programs, they 2:40:06.000 --> 2:40:08.560 just you know, they don't they don't actually do anything. 2:40:09.080 --> 2:40:11.840 They don't have a gun say, any gun safety initiatives. 2:40:12.200 --> 2:40:14.240 And one of the reasons child safety is I think 2:40:14.320 --> 2:40:18.920 so successful and why this American Foundation for Suicide per 2:40:18.920 --> 2:40:22.400 Inventions approached us is you know, as the industry, we have, 2:40:22.560 --> 2:40:25.680 we have license to talk to gun owners. Right, they'll 2:40:25.680 --> 2:40:30.160 listen to us. Right. Many if if a gun control group, 2:40:30.240 --> 2:40:32.560 you know, hands out a lock, it's gonna you know, 2:40:33.240 --> 2:40:35.080 they don't they don't want to lock on the gun. 2:40:35.080 --> 2:40:37.000 They don't want the gun, right like they say, get 2:40:37.000 --> 2:40:39.760 the gun. There should be guns in the house. But 2:40:40.200 --> 2:40:43.760 so in American Foundation for Suicide Perfences, like you know, 2:40:45.160 --> 2:40:47.400 we need you guts. We need your help to communicate 2:40:47.440 --> 2:40:49.760 the gun owners. How do we communicate the gun owners? 2:40:50.200 --> 2:40:53.199 How do we get this mentions across without offending them 2:40:53.320 --> 2:40:55.720 or turning them off? You know, so that they will 2:40:55.800 --> 2:40:58.920 listen to the message? Uh, you know, and and so 2:40:59.000 --> 2:41:02.760 that's you know why I think that program is successful 2:41:02.800 --> 2:41:08.240 and we'll be successful. Yeah, it's a good one. All right, 2:41:08.240 --> 2:41:10.160 we've taken up a ton of your time. That's all right. 2:41:10.640 --> 2:41:15.039 We have a thing called concluders. Pivot to the conclusion. 2:41:15.160 --> 2:41:16.400 Do you want to conclude, you want to throw it. 2:41:16.959 --> 2:41:18.800 It's not mandatory. You don't need to do a concluder. 2:41:18.879 --> 2:41:21.119 That was a good conversation to spend time with you. 2:41:21.360 --> 2:41:24.440 We got to visit very briefly in New Hampshire at 2:41:24.480 --> 2:41:28.480 that conference, but but that's the first time we've really 2:41:28.480 --> 2:41:31.000 had a chance to have a conversation. So I welcome. 2:41:31.040 --> 2:41:37.400 It's fun. That's your Concluderay, my concluder. Yeah, I'm gonna 2:41:37.480 --> 2:41:40.120 reciprocate with my concluder. And I'm really glad that you 2:41:40.160 --> 2:41:42.600 were able to take time and walk through a lot 2:41:42.640 --> 2:41:43.880 of this stuff. I think we covered a lot of 2:41:43.879 --> 2:41:47.120 things that are probably pretty unfamiliar. Yeah, that's oh, Yeah, 2:41:47.160 --> 2:41:50.200 nobody knows. Nobody knows that a tenth or they know 2:41:50.280 --> 2:41:52.840 a tenth of what you guys do and the other nine. 2:41:52.920 --> 2:41:54.720 There's also the problem to stuff you think you know 2:41:54.760 --> 2:41:58.640 and you realize there's a little more to it. Yeah. Yeah, 2:41:58.680 --> 2:42:01.000 we have a great, great group of people that work 2:42:01.000 --> 2:42:04.240 at the National Shooting Sports Foundation, really passionate about what 2:42:04.320 --> 2:42:07.880 we do and uh dedicated to serving our members. And 2:42:08.520 --> 2:42:11.360 you know, we're really proud of our all these you 2:42:11.360 --> 2:42:14.560 know what we say, real solutions for safer communities, you know, 2:42:14.600 --> 2:42:19.199 and representing the industry UM in state capitals all across 2:42:19.200 --> 2:42:23.200 the country and here in Washington. UM. You know, the 2:42:23.200 --> 2:42:26.960 the challenge never ends. UM. I got one more question though, 2:42:27.000 --> 2:42:29.640 Any chance you guys can move Shot out of Las Vegas? 2:42:33.040 --> 2:42:39.440 Not likely. We're there, UM, you know for for many years. 2:42:39.560 --> 2:42:41.960 We we've got signed contracts going out and as I say, 2:42:42.040 --> 2:42:44.960 we were if we talked about in the year before. 2:42:45.000 --> 2:42:48.720 But next year we'll take space in MGM, and the 2:42:48.840 --> 2:42:52.040 year after that will take space in UM a building 2:42:52.040 --> 2:42:54.640 that Caesar's is putting up. The Caesar's for him will 2:42:54.680 --> 2:42:57.360 go from just under seven hundred thousand square feet to 2:42:57.720 --> 2:43:00.520 just under a million and now I'm sorry it's not 2:43:00.560 --> 2:43:05.840 open to the public. Mark Gotty Concluders. I think probably 2:43:05.840 --> 2:43:07.920 one of the funnest things that you know, I really 2:43:08.000 --> 2:43:10.800 enjoy working here with Like I was explained to you 2:43:10.879 --> 2:43:15.080 kind of before we started talking on the show, Yeah, 2:43:15.080 --> 2:43:17.760 I get to I get to talk about hunting and 2:43:17.800 --> 2:43:19.760 guns all day. I mean, this is it's a passion 2:43:19.800 --> 2:43:22.320 of mine. But uh, you know, the fun thing about 2:43:22.400 --> 2:43:24.000 it is is those of us who kind of as 2:43:24.120 --> 2:43:26.280 as I've gotten into this world and I've I've worked 2:43:26.280 --> 2:43:28.000 in it, and I've talked to other people who were 2:43:28.080 --> 2:43:31.320 kind of in this world. Uh, we work all day 2:43:31.360 --> 2:43:34.480 so everyone else gets to go hunt and shoot. So 2:43:34.480 --> 2:43:36.520 so I wish I got to get out and hunt 2:43:36.520 --> 2:43:39.800 and shooting. I really do. I don't know nearly as 2:43:39.840 --> 2:43:42.280 often as I want. So, so you know, for everyone 2:43:42.320 --> 2:43:44.920 who's listening to the podcast, for me, get out and 2:43:45.000 --> 2:43:47.000 hunt shoot, because that's that's what I'm working every day 2:43:47.000 --> 2:43:48.360 for you guys to do. So I want you to 2:43:48.400 --> 2:43:49.959 go out and hunt shoot. If you if you have 2:43:49.959 --> 2:43:51.520 a hunting season and you have something you can go 2:43:51.520 --> 2:43:53.560 out and hunt, go out and hunt it today, you know. 2:43:53.600 --> 2:43:55.880 And if if you can't hunt something today and get 2:43:55.879 --> 2:43:57.280 your gun to go down to the range and get 2:43:57.280 --> 2:43:59.920 better at shooting. So that's pretty because so many guys 2:44:00.080 --> 2:44:01.480 right in about wanting to be like in, you know, 2:44:01.600 --> 2:44:04.800 quote the industry, and I'm like, man, you know a 2:44:04.879 --> 2:44:06.840 lot of people I know that do them the most 2:44:06.840 --> 2:44:11.680 time outside are not in the industry. Yeah, industry, I'm 2:44:11.760 --> 2:44:13.879 gonna industry your way out of the wood. I'm still 2:44:13.879 --> 2:44:15.920 looking for that very rich uncle who's gonna let me 2:44:15.959 --> 2:44:18.160 just hunt and fish all this the number of times 2:44:18.200 --> 2:44:21.040 people have said, oh, you must get to go honey 2:44:21.080 --> 2:44:24.000 all the time, I'm like, actually, no, like hardly ever, 2:44:25.120 --> 2:44:29.160 Johnny Ah. Yeah. I'll just conclude with thank you for 2:44:29.280 --> 2:44:32.600 what you guys do. I appreciate you guys making opportunities 2:44:32.640 --> 2:44:34.200 for me to hunt and fish all the time. So 2:44:35.160 --> 2:44:37.920 um yeah, right now, we love we love to see 2:44:38.160 --> 2:44:40.200 what happens on the show, and we love to what's 2:44:40.240 --> 2:44:42.480 happening on the podcast. So we get to live a 2:44:42.480 --> 2:44:45.000 little vicariously through your adventure. So thanks for sharing with 2:44:45.000 --> 2:45:06.080 the world. Thanks for joining to set