1 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: severely bitten in my case underwear. Listen, don't make you 3 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: eat podcast. You can't predict anything, Okay. Larry Keen from 4 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: National Shooting Sports Foundation, Larry, are you? Are you cool? 5 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: If we go through a couple of things here first, 6 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: they don't like, they don't necessarily involve you, but free 7 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: to weigh in because we gotta do a couple of 8 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: things like a lot of like us some listener email, 9 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: gotta take care of some business, yeah, house cleaning. Janice 10 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: had used the word, oh yeah, he had used the 11 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: word accidental discharge, and a lot of people, particularly service members, 12 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: rode in to say that you can't say that they 13 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: go by negligent disc arch. There's no there's no accidents. 14 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: They they there's military dudes, very emphatic on that point. 15 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: Due to your own negligence, you know, you don't get 16 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: to say that they just cut right to they cut 17 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: right the negligence. You know, like in a prior life, 18 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: i UH defended gun companies in product liability cases and 19 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: so that the term accidental discharge or a D was 20 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: used in those cases, and that was often you know, 21 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: the firearm discharged because of the negligence or the um 22 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: of the owner or the user, not because any design 23 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: defect or manufacturing defect. But they would typically be called 24 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: in the legal parliament says a d s are accidental discharge. 25 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: But I think the point is well made that it's 26 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: really negligence on the part of the person using the firearm. 27 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: It doesn't go off by itself. Somebody has to pull 28 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: the trigger. Several marines wrote in about it must be 29 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: something that there must be something they talk about fair 30 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: But that's the master gunny sergeants is drilled into your 31 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: head in boot camp that you are responsible for the 32 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: terminal resting place every round that leaves your rifle, and 33 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: you are a maggot. You're a maggot. I like that 34 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: the terminal resting place of every round that leaves your rifle. Yep, 35 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: terminal resting place. That sounds a cob. We have a 36 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: we have a very dark sense of humorous marines. Another thing, 37 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: we got a lot of people writing in about we're 38 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: talking about button bucks um and people asking like does 39 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: a button buck shed anything meaning an antler? Yeah, good question, 40 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: Typically not, but like we had read this thing where 41 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: we had read this thing where you're saying, like it 42 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: hasn't been known to happen in the state of Virginia, 43 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: but it's known to happen to other places. But then 44 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: we had people, including a lot of biologists and dear 45 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: specialists right in to say, certainly happens, it happens in Virginia, 46 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: and a lot of guys emailed us folk, I shouldn't 47 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: say a lot of handful of guys emailed us photos 48 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: of button buck sheds which looks like a little bone disc. 49 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: Some guys actually wrote in who were doing a deer 50 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: trapping study while listening to the podcast and started examining 51 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: some button bucks, and they had some findings too. But 52 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: it says that like early born fawns who have very 53 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: good nutrition and tend to be the larger size, button 54 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: bucks will actually form a little thing that they cast off. 55 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: But the antler don't want to call it an antler, 56 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: the little nubbins the disk that has cast off, it 57 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to cast it off in a way that's 58 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: tied to photo period. It's like photo period is length 59 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: of day, and photo period drives so much, you know, 60 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: drive so much of nature's day length, Like like things 61 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: are gonna happen within a window of time centered around 62 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: day length. And and and then then like micro factors will 63 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: come in. Micro factors can also influence timing. But there's 64 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: a lot of natural cycles that happened in accord you know, 65 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: in accordance to length of day. And he said, normal 66 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: bucks seem to lose their antlers due to photo period. 67 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: They think it's linked to photo period changes, but this 68 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: is just linked to whatever is going on in the 69 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: growth and how much gets there and when it starts 70 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: growing a new antler for button bucks. Um And he said, 71 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: this guy also talked about you ever hear the doppel 72 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: Cops syndrome. Nope, that's so dear. Biologists talk about this. 73 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: He says, unlike adult antlers, which are grown in shed 74 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: based on changing photo period, infant antlers are controlled by 75 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: maturity and hormonal development and not tied to photo period. 76 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: If any antler ever fails to shed doppel cop syndrome, 77 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: the new antler grows around own the original antler from 78 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: the outside rim of the pedicle. He says, Picture your 79 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 1: meat grinder plugged up with silver skin, squirting meat out 80 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: around the blockage. The resulting grossly misshapen antlers would be 81 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: obvious on any deer that failed to shed those antler buttons. 82 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: Look at that like it good analogy? Um. Another big 83 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: thing in the news, tons of people wrote in about 84 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: the guy a jogger in Fort Collins. Did you guys 85 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: hear about this? Yeah, jog for he's jogging along since 86 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: it's something coming from behind him. It's an eight five 87 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: pound juvenile mountain lion. It attacks him and the guy 88 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: chokes it out. That is a will to live, strangles 89 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: it walks three miles down to trailhead, drives to a hospital, 90 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: you know, talking to the police about what went on. 91 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: They said, and he's got stuff that he wanted them 92 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: to retrieve. When I go up to inspect the site, 93 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: they go up there, dead mountain lion land there. Wow. 94 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: Every guy likes to think he'd do that, but most 95 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: wouldn't strangled it. I like to think he was listening 96 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: to stranglehold. Come on, come on, come on, come on baby? 97 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: Uh speaking all that a in the Great Smokey Mountains 98 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: National Park in Tennessee. You guys hear this story? Nope? There? Yeah, 99 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: crazy story. So you guys know what jin saying is right? 100 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: That's my my question as we get into the story, 101 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: is this now considered inedible for the bear? That's yeah, 102 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: there's a lot. This story is one of those stories 103 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: that makes its own greaty so great Smokey Mountain National Park, Tennessee. 104 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: Some guys are out. It seems to be I don't 105 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: want to like, I don't wanna, you know, I mean, 106 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: the guy's dead, but I don't want I don't want 107 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: to condemn the guy without knowing. But it's it's The 108 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: insinuation is that they were hunting Jin saying, digging Jin 109 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: saying illegally, and jing sings like a medicinal route. Daniel 110 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: Boone was in the Jin saying business and once lost 111 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: a fortune's worth of Jin saying and it was one 112 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: of the many things that UH seemed to routinely destroy 113 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: Daniel Boone financially. But anyways, these guys are hunting in 114 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: up national hunting Jin singer, didn't digging Jin sang in 115 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: the national park where it's illegal to dig sing. One 116 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: of the guys goes missing. There's two guys. One of 117 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: them goes missing, his buddy can't find him. They find 118 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: him later eating by a bear. Turns out that he 119 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: was scavenged by a bear and actually and had actually 120 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: died of a meth overdose pretty badly scavenged by the bear. 121 00:07:55,120 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: They had to identify his body by his tattoos. He 122 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: had a school and crossbones tattoo and a C D 123 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: C tattoo, a Confederate battle flag tattoo that said it's 124 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: a redneck thing. Um. But I wonder if the bear 125 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: was shrewd that he would place the needles as a 126 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: cover up. I don't know. And then Mark's brought up 127 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: the idea, like some people brought up, was like what 128 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: happens to a bear who's ingested? Is the bear tripping? Um? 129 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: We talked about one more thing to news like absolutely, 130 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: I'm still trying to get my mind around uh a 131 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: method bear. Yeah. Uh on a not nearly not on 132 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: a not at all funny note. Um. But speaking of bears, 133 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: Wylming just released a really extensive report um on the 134 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: death of an elk hunting guide in Wyoming who was 135 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: killed by a grizzly bear. Uh. The guy a guide, 136 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: a whelming guy, was guiding a client from Florida for 137 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: elk and while they were butcher in um were they're 138 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: butchering and elk? A sal grizzly and a male cub 139 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: charged them, charged them, coming uphill at them, and the 140 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: bear grabbed the first attack the guide um the woman 141 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: guide who had bear spray on his belt. He had 142 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: a bear stray canister on his belt, and he had 143 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: a ten millimeter pistol on his backpack. The client had 144 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: a bottle of a can of pepper spray in his backpack, 145 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: so they can attacked. Suddenly, the guide gets in a 146 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: skirmish with the bear. The client tries to retrieve the 147 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: guides handgun but doesn't know how to operate it. The 148 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: air turns and bites the client on the foot. They 149 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: get into a struggle. The client tries to throw the 150 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: handgun to the guide, it falls short. The bear then 151 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: turns back and attacks the guide. This is where the 152 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: story is so strange? Is it? The clients of it? 153 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: He's been bitten on the foot, and the last he 154 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: sees of the guide, the guide is still on his 155 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: feet struggling with the bear, and the client leaves, goes 156 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: to the horses, rides a horse four hundred yards to 157 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: a hilltop to make a phone call, waits for a 158 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: helicopter to come, and he never goes back. They Yeah, 159 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a. I mean, the report 160 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 1: doesn't draw you know, the reports. It's an exhaustive report, 161 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: but it doesn't say things that you imagine it might 162 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: say about what they means. Um. The next day they 163 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: found the guide and he had the guy was dead. Um. 164 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: In their analysis of footprints and what happened and empty 165 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: bear spray can and his body and other things, they 166 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: believed that the guy did spray the bear with pepper 167 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: spray it ended the attack, but then succumbed to his injuries. Wow. 168 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: Just a heart like kind of a heartbreaking story. Wow, Okay, 169 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: some some lessons to be learned. They're about we always 170 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: talk about where are you know, bear spray is located 171 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: on our body, where the pistols are on our bodies, 172 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: where you lay your rifle down, you know, as you're 173 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: doing something like that in grizzly bear country. Yeah, I 174 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: just ordered, I am ordering what do you what's the 175 00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: one you have? The airframe? Yeah? An airframe? Oh yeah, 176 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: I was just ordering one of those. We got into 177 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: talking about UM got into talking about revolvers versus semi autos. 178 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: What I was saying is like at work, we got 179 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: a lot of guys who don't have a lot of 180 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,719 Speaker 1: familiarity with firearms. I feel like anyone who's watched a 181 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: Western I can understand the basic functioning over revolver, you 182 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: know what I mean and that. But this is before 183 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: I even read the report. But I was like just 184 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: articulating this to John Edwards over at his gun shop, 185 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: over at Schnaze. It was like my sort of I'm like, 186 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: I just feel like for us when we're out working 187 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: um up in Alaska, it's just like a thing that 188 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: it's just easy to explain to people who don't no, 189 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: who don't shoot, Um, that's what. That's what. That's what 190 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: I'm fixing to get. No, Larry, Sorry, no need to apologize. 191 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: N SSF. Uh Like when someone like you're at a party, 192 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: You're at a cocktail party and someone says, what's that? 193 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: What's the NSSF. What do you tell them? We are 194 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: the firearms industry's trade association. And then the next question 195 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: is what's the difference between you and the n A 196 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: and the elevator speeches. The dividing line is to checkout 197 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: counter as the trade association. We're focused on the bar 198 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: stock being delivered to the factory to make the firearm 199 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: to the south to the sale to the consumer at retail. 200 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: And that's our that's what we're focused on. That's that's 201 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: our core mission to help the industry grow and prosper UH. 202 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: And the dividing line between US and n A is 203 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: the is the is the checkout counter. They represent gun owners, 204 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: consumers from the industry's point of view, and users, and 205 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: we represent the industry. Uh do industry people are members 206 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: of the NSSF. The companies are members um SO. In 207 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: our membership be about I think the numbers about ten 208 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: thousand members. Now, you know, the ebbs and flows goes 209 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: up after a lot of people joining when they come 210 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: to shot show. Um SO, our members are manufacturers, distributors, retailers, firearms, ammunition, 211 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: scopes and basically anything you can put in on around 212 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: or through a gun for hunting, shooting, increasingly for you know, 213 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: personal protection, self defense, big part of the market. Um. 214 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: Big companies, the biggest names you know that everybody knows 215 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: household names to smaller companies, smaller manufacturers that you know 216 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: most people have never heard of. You guys, they're the 217 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: ten by ten booths at the shot show. You see 218 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: the small little booths, but you know, all the big 219 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: guys started out as small companies at some point. I 220 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: think a lot of people's familiarity comes from Shot Show. Yeah, 221 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's a huge event. As you know, 222 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: as we were talking before, UM exhibitors thirteen miles of 223 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: exhibit space, and if you went to every single booth 224 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: at the show, you could spend twenty two seconds at 225 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: each one. So it's it's a massive Whatever people go 226 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: for the first time they are their reaction is always 227 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: the same. They're blown away, they're shocked, they cannot believe 228 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: the breath and scope and size of the Shot show. Yeah, 229 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: it's big. You feel like you can never there's so much. 230 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: You feel like you never get like can look at 231 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: something because there's so much. You know, you always want 232 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: you always to force yourself to focus for a second, 233 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: you do. Yeah, I mean we tell people that you 234 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: have to have a plan, and we have like apps 235 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: for people for the attendees were you know, dealers, buyers, 236 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: plan your show, plan who you want to see, you 237 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: can schedule it. You know. The app, uh, you know, 238 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: it's a digital map. It will tell you how to 239 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: get from point A to point B. You just plug 240 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: in the booth in the booth number and it'll tell 241 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: you how to get there. Um. And you got to 242 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: plan your time otherwise you just you'll get lost, you know. 243 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: And all of the stuff you see uh on all 244 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: of the various booths. But we try to segment the show. Um. 245 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: You know, we have the law enforcement tactical section, We've 246 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: got firearms and ammunition. We've got other areas where you know, 247 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: we have a new Products center, um, so if you're 248 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: looking for new products, that's where you would go. And 249 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: that's a big popular place. And then we have you know, 250 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: areas where you know it's hunting, clothing and things like that. 251 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: And so we try to segment the show so you 252 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: can be in a particular area and you know, Okay, 253 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: i'm gonna if you're a buyer, I'm gonna talk to 254 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: these firearms guys, then i'm gonna go over here, I'm 255 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: gonna talk to these clothing guys that um, you know, 256 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: in place orders so nothing that there's no sales, direct 257 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: sales that take place. No certainly no cash hellth that's 258 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: not allowed. So it's booking orders um and people looking 259 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: at um, you know, at products. It's it's really a 260 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: primary primarily now the show is really a new product 261 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: introduction and marketing show. Um. It's the largest gathering of 262 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: outdoor media in the world. Uh it's if you took 263 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: out the knives, it would be the largest knife show 264 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: in the world, if you took out if you took out. 265 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: The thing that pulls my mind walking around there is 266 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:26,959 Speaker 1: uh all the government agencies for foreign governments. We hear 267 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: people talking every language on the planet. I think it's 268 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: something like a hundred countries. Um. We've got uh foreign military, 269 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: foreign law enforcement, foreign exhibitors, foreign attendees from all over 270 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: the place. So we've even had people come from Pakistan. Um, 271 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: we've you know, people from all over Europe, you know 272 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: New Zealand, Uh, Australia, et cetera. Um, we've got lots 273 00:17:54,680 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: of US military buyers there from all branches and so 274 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: calm folks. They're they're the ones that can't have their 275 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: pictures taken. Funny story about that, but a couple of 276 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: years ago, UH Governor Romney came to see the show 277 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: before or right around the time. He just a little 278 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: bit before he announced he was running, and he wanted 279 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: to come to see the show. And we took him around, 280 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: walked him around the floor for a while. Uh and 281 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: and there were some guys and military guys. They were 282 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: in uniform. You know, it's like, hey, let's get a 283 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: picture with you and govern to romy No, no, no, no, 284 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:35,959 Speaker 1: we can't, we can't. Okay, you're not here. This How 285 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: much is the I don't want to ballut too much 286 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: on Shot show, but how much a Shot show? How 287 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: much was it impacted by the War on Terror? Yeah, 288 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: because because we've been like engaged and you know, we've 289 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: been engaged in multiple theaters right for a long time. Yeah. Um, 290 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say in seventeen years. You know, the War 291 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: on Terror impacted the market and that impact of the show. 292 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: So it wasn't like a direct impact, but it just 293 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: seems like it's been such a like just a bewildering 294 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: amount of new technologies getting driven by you know, driven 295 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: by the you know the fact that I mean, you know, 296 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: most Americans kind of lose sight of the fact the 297 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: fact that we've been at war for so long. Yeah. 298 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: The fastest growing part of the show is the taxical 299 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: law enforcement show enforcement. Yeah, so that's that's by far 300 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: the fastest growing part of the show. And I think 301 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: that's a reflection of the changing market. And I think 302 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: that that has driven in part due to um people 303 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: that like marked that served when overseas, came back, left 304 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: the military and you know, if they weren't before, they 305 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 1: you know, they like to go target shooting, hunting, and 306 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: so but I think that's helps explain the growth of 307 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: the modern sporting rifle popularity. A lot of the people. 308 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: Our survey show that, uh, about half of the people 309 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 1: that purchase them our current form and military law enforcement. 310 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: And it's actually we have a being on our website 311 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: about the history of the rifle in America, and that 312 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: that rifle would become popular was really predictable because it's 313 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: that's always happened through the history of United States. After 314 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: people serve, they come back, they take up target shooting. 315 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 1: They're familiar with that platform. Uh, it's comfortable, they like it. 316 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: And so if you look at the growth in the market, 317 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, after every conflict, you'll see, you know, certain 318 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: types of rifles become very popular. People forget that all 319 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: rifles were originally military rights. It is it's cycling. So 320 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: if you look back through the history of wars, after 321 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: you come back from World War One, everyone was using 322 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: bolt action rifles. Well that's the rifle that they were 323 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: familiar with, and that's with them they wanted to take 324 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: back into the woods with them. After World War Two, 325 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 1: they were using repeating rifles that were using semi automatic rifles, 326 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: and that's what they want to take back in with them. 327 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: And after Korea and after Vietnam, you started to see 328 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: the rise in the use of scopes, which before then 329 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: was kind of antathetical. You know, people at the time, 330 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: if you can use the scope, you're gonna be poaching. 331 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: So as you should kind of see these adoptions of 332 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: these technologies as they kind of go back and forth. 333 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: And it used to be that, you know, for a while, 334 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: civilian technology would kind of drive military technology when it 335 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: comes to small arms, and then it was then it 336 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: was the push that develop of new firearms for the 337 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: military would push back out into the civilian market. We've 338 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: kind of seen that kind of go back around again. 339 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,479 Speaker 1: The military is looking at a lot more commercial off 340 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: the shelf items. Uh, so you're seeing the kind of 341 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: that that cyclic nature of that happening over and over. Yeah, 342 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: it's not a one way street, um, but to your 343 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: point males are both action rifled. I mean that is 344 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 1: now considered the ubiquitous deer hunting rifle, right, Like no 345 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: Control group say well that's that's a weapon of war, right, 346 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: But you know it was at one point that I mean, 347 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: it can't be used for for hunting another target, shooting, etcetera. 348 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: So you know, the military does buy commercial products, and 349 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 1: you know, so it goes, it goes both ways. I mean, 350 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: consumers see what the military law enforcement used and they think, 351 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: well it's good enough for them. That's what I want, 352 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: And so that that ries a lot what happens in 353 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: the commercial market. What I want to do, I want 354 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: to return to this for sure. What all I do 355 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: is I want to do kind of um like cover 356 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of brown to do a walk. You want 357 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: a bunch of issues that I think, like particularly things 358 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: that I know that our audience asked about around firearms issues, 359 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: legislation issues, um and try to like do quick snapshots 360 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: and stuff. And one thing because being here in d 361 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: C and you guys have some familiarity in the space. 362 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: One thing. I don't want to dwell on it too long, 363 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: but we've talked a lot about on this show. We've 364 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: covered a lot about Land and Water Conservation Fund, and 365 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: it's kind of this story that doesn't really go away 366 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: right now. You guys are involved, you guys are in 367 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: some way. Yeah, like what is it? What's yours? Like, 368 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: what's your organization's opinion on it? Well, we think, uh, 369 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: you know, one of the challenges for the health of 370 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: the industry is, you know, we need hunters to have 371 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: access and opportunity, and that takes many forms right time, 372 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: but also access to land, particularly out west, there's a 373 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: lot of public land, and so opening up access to 374 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: public lands for hunting, target shooting, fishing, et cetera. Is important. So, uh, 375 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: Landing Water Conservation Fund, we think it's important. We support 376 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: the Land the Public Lands package that UM is in 377 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: the Senate currently. We wished it had passed at the 378 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: end of last year, but we're, you know, remain hopeful 379 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: that we finally get it done. But so we support 380 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: that seventy four UM filed cloaks are on it to 381 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: come up for a vote any day, you know, real soon, 382 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: and we think it passes overwhelmingly. Yeah, it seems to 383 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: have a lot of it seems to have a lot 384 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: of bipartisan support. It might even pass unanimous consent. Right, 385 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: So there was the vote to UM yesterday afternoon, was like, 386 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: so it'll pass and then we'll see what happens in 387 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: the House. So hopefully it passes as well. But we 388 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: think it's important UM. We support it. We have for 389 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: quite a while, particularly within uh L WCF. Then making 390 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: public lands provision something we think it's very important. So 391 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: to to allow to have a funding source to purchase 392 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: UM rights of way and Eastman's, etcetera, UM private land 393 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: to get access to landlocked federal land to open it 394 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: up for more access for hunting and and shooting. So 395 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: what's your what's your litmus like as an organization? What 396 00:24:54,840 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: is the n SSF litmus on how to fall on issues? 397 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: So like it takes something like the land of water 398 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: conservation flaw and so your perspective on it is UM 399 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: access is good for hunters. Hunters are good for the industry. 400 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: I mean is that good for conservation? Right? So I 401 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: mean so we go back. It all starts from, you know, 402 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: sort of the core function of ansef our mission is 403 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: to promote, protect and preserve hunting and the shooting sports. 404 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: That's right, And from the perspective of the industry as 405 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,719 Speaker 1: the industry's trade association. So that's how we you know, 406 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: that's that's our sort of prism through which we view things, 407 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: and so access and there's no question access and opportunity 408 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: are are critical to promoting, protecting and preserving hunting and 409 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: the shooting sports. As we all know, hunting has been 410 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: on a slow decline for a number of years, and 411 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: so we have a lot of programs and initiatives to 412 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: try to address that and bend that curve. Um like 413 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: the one we just started plus one. But in terms 414 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: of looking at legislation, the devil is always in the details. 415 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: But conceptually, you know, we want to see more public 416 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: land opened up for hunting and the shooting sports. It's 417 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: a big issue out west. Um, so you know, we 418 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: try to balance aquities. We also got to be really 419 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: you know, sort of figure out what what is doable, 420 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: what is achievable legislatively. Um, you know, you can you know, 421 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: I always had the pony on my Christmas list, but 422 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: I didn't always get the pony. In fact, I never 423 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: got the pony. So you bring up the West, But 424 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: I think it's important people to realize. I don't think 425 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: there's a I think I heard. I'm pretty sure this 426 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: is right. There's not a county in the United States 427 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: that hasn't had LWCF projects on it. You know, I 428 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: don't think that maybe I don't know municipal swimming pools, 429 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: like like all kinds of all kinds of outdoor access programs. 430 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: So there's the thing, uh people and robertson fun. It 431 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: feels like this is been like the year of the 432 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: Pittman Roberts and Fund where I feel growing up, you know, 433 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: and like without realizing you're doing anyone that buys guns 434 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: or ammunition certain archery pointment, like you're like paying into 435 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: the fund without knowing it, because when you get your receipt, 436 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't say there's it doesn't say that there's a 437 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: thirteen or fourteen percent tax built into it. So you 438 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: can kind of live your life as a shooter and 439 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: and not realize you're doing it. But I don't know why. 440 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: I just feel like there's some like tipping point where 441 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: there's awareness and it's probably it's probably a smart move. 442 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: It just like it seems to be in my world. 443 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: There seems to be a lot more awareness now and 444 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: a lot more reporting on the existence of the fund. 445 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: Well that's I'm glad to hear you think that's the case. 446 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: You know, the industry is try to promote that message. 447 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: We've worked with Fish and Wildlife Service. In fact, a 448 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, probably more than a couple of now, uh, 449 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: it was a seventy fifth anniversary uh Pittman Robers and 450 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: exercise tax being put in place to try to you know, 451 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: so there was efforts to put information or flyers and 452 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: stickers and on the boxes and then some people purchased 453 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: that they understood I knew that. Um so I think 454 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: that's hopefully bearing some fruit trying to push that message. 455 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: The taxes, you know, it's ten percent on handguns, eleven 456 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: percent on long guns and ammunition, and it's been in 457 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: place since nineteen. Well, the tax actually not one of them. 458 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: It's not there's not one that's thirteen. There's not a 459 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: third percent part not on guns and ammunition. I mean, 460 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: there's thus all exercise tax on a fishing tackle, but 461 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: that goes into a different fund are archery. Archery may 462 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: be higher, I'm not sure, but so that the tax 463 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: actually existed, what happened was the industry asked to have 464 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: the you know, have the funds UM be used for 465 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: conservation because at the time, if you look at the history, 466 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: wildlife was not doing well in the United States. So 467 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: the depths of the SPA, so you know, the industry 468 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: helped fund to loophold and others. UM. You know, the 469 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: creation of wildlife management is a science and that was 470 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: funded by the industry. UH. And in attacks, you know, 471 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: we said, used this tax dollars for this purpose. And 472 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: I think it's now over twelve billion dollars or thereabouts UM. 473 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: And it's the price one of the primary sources of 474 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: conservation funding in the United States, as you know, it's 475 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: collected by Treasury, UH, distributed given to the official wildlife 476 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: goes into the trust fund, which we aren't actually isn't 477 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: technically a trust fund, I guess on the sequestration battle, 478 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: but from a couple of years ago. But then that 479 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: is distributed back out to the states on the formula 480 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: land mass hunting sales. How is the tax like what 481 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: actually is taxed along the ware at what point like 482 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: at the end of the year. You know, it's it 483 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: used to be that the manufacturer had to pay the 484 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: tax twice a month and three times in September for 485 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: firearms and ammunition. When other when the tax was supplied 486 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: to other goods like archery and such, they got to 487 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: pay quarterly. So a number of years ago actually we 488 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: UM got legislation passed to change the payment scheduled to 489 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: quarterly like everybody else. Um uh and so, but it's 490 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 1: paid basically with the first shipment by the manufacturer. UM 491 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: is when the taxes is owed, and so the manufacturer's 492 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: gotta you know, submit the tax receipts to Treasury to 493 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: the Tax and Trade or t t B. They pay 494 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: based off of sales or what they made sales. So UM. 495 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a little complicated, but some sales are 496 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: examples some uh from the tax and um and it 497 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: gets very you know, like any text tax lug. It's complicated, 498 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: but basically it's a commercial sale of firems and ammuation products. 499 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: At the manufactural level is when the taxes. Sales to 500 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: the uniform branches are not Those sales are not taxable. UM. 501 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: Sales to state law enforcement is not tax but but oddly, 502 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: sales to federal law enforcement is taxable, which I don't know, 503 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: I don't know how that came to be, but that's 504 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: the way it is. So but it's basically, you know, 505 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: and as you say, you know, the taxes baked into 506 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: the cost of the goods, just like all other costs insurance, electricity, labor. 507 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's reflected in the price of the goods. 508 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day that you know 509 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: that the consumer of the hunter, of the shooters paying 510 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: the tax. Uh. In an indirect fashion, we like to, 511 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: you know, tell hunters that you're you're funding conservation, right 512 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: so they understand their Connecticut. But to your point, UH, 513 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: target shooters, people who never go afield um are are 514 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: actually paying the lions share of the acts because you guys, 515 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: you guys did that study. People in the initially think 516 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: it's higher. Intuitally you can see it, but I would 517 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: never have guessed that that would be the break. So 518 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: think about it this way, Steve. This past hunting season, 519 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: I went out and I killed two deer this year. 520 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: So I killed one with my bow and I killed 521 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: one with my rifle. I probably used maybe three, let's 522 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: say five rounds to check the zero on my rifle, 523 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: and I put one round through the deer I killed. 524 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: So that's what six rounds max that I used through 525 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: my rifle hunt in your hunt with Granddaddy's rifew hunting 526 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: with my with my old Resent seven thirty odd six. UM. 527 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: But when I go to the range on the weekend 528 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: and fire my pistols or fire my R fifteen, I'm 529 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: starting at a minimum of a hundred rounds. I'm buying 530 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: a hunt rounds right across the counter, and I'm going 531 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: into the range, And that's what I'm gonna that's the 532 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: minimum start of what I'm gonna play with that day. 533 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: So you think you figure I used six rounds to 534 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: hunt deer this year, I'll use that. Say you go 535 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: to the range once a month, I'm going to use 536 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: a minimum of twelve rounds through each of my firearms. 537 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: So that's the money that's going towards conservation. Yeah. We 538 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: talked about it recently because hunters I was saying, like 539 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: there's awareness about Pittman robertson right, and I think and 540 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: it was funny because the hunters like to vocalize about it. 541 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: We like to we like to virtue signal around rovers 542 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,719 Speaker 1: when they're looking at that numbers of that money is, yes, 543 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: seventy eight percent of that money is tied to UM. Yeah, 544 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: recreational shooting, and the license sells, you know, helps fund conservation. 545 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: That hunters are the original green movement. Hunters are the 546 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: original conservationist, which is a fact that has become lost 547 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: on a lot of people now because I think that 548 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: because some of the systems, the systems have been in 549 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: place for the systems have been in place for so 550 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: long that people lose the people lose sight of it. Um. 551 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: I said, when I had no awareness when I was 552 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: a kid, I had no wareness of how like you, 553 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: how your state Fishing Game Agency, which does all the 554 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: work they do from disease research to law enforcement, had 555 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: no idea of where that money came from. Right. You 556 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: kind of live like a pretty nice life in this country, 557 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 1: just hunting, fishing away, Yeah, with no idea like the machinations, 558 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: right that it goes on behind the scenes. Um, it's uh, 559 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: we're very proud of it. I mean, you know, it's 560 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: because think about it, that's ten eleven percent at the 561 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: bottom line at the industry willingly pays that tax, and 562 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: and look the success we've had since the tax you know, 563 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: was put to that purpose. I mean, the wildlife are 564 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: doing pretty darn darn well in this country. I mean 565 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: more whitetail, dere more turkey. You know, it's it's great success, 566 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: the bald eagles off the endangered species list, all of 567 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: us being you know, funded by UM the x X tax. 568 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: I think you pointed out well when you wrote that 569 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: piece for Outside magazine a couple of months ago where 570 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: you were talking about, hey, bird watchers, you have birds 571 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: to look at because of hunters. So I mean, this 572 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: is and to what was the point of where we're 573 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: talking about. We've got a lot of people that are 574 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: going to gun ranges tell that will never step foot 575 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: in the woods, and they're the ones that are helping 576 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: fundness that. That's that that that's a nice segue. We 577 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:21,399 Speaker 1: were really cherish a good segue around here into uh, 578 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: I want you guys explain the target practice and marksmanship 579 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: training support act UM because I was gonna go there 580 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: and you want to have questions, but I have questions 581 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: about it. I call it pivot. You called oh yeah, 582 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: I think that that's a pivot. So yeah, that's good. Yeah, 583 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: because you imagine a pivot having like a point of pivot. 584 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: So this is I think this is hard for some 585 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: people to visualize that. So so this Pittman Robertson fund 586 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: takes kind of like where the where when it comes 587 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: to exercise the fund. It's like matching grants where states 588 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,240 Speaker 1: are doing projects and they get funding that they apply 589 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: for funding from the fund to to do certain projects, 590 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: and a lot of the projects are centered around wildlife restoration. 591 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 1: There's a movement though, catching like interrupt me when I'm wrong, okay, 592 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: And then there's a push though that states should have 593 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: more flexibility to use Pittman Robertson money to create shooting ranges. Right, 594 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: So the law now allows the states to use the 595 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: money for wildlife conservation restoration. That's where the bulk of 596 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: the money goes and should go. They can also use 597 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,800 Speaker 1: some of the Pittman Robertson for hunter education, obviously very important. 598 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: They do that now and they can already now also 599 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: use the some of the funds under certain conditions in 600 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,439 Speaker 1: the law to build or enhance public shooting ranges. So 601 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: a number of years ago we have had Cobbly always 602 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: have conversations with the state fishing game agencies. Right, they 603 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: have an organization called uh UH Association Fish and Wildlife Agencies, 604 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: very creative things. So they have meetings and we go 605 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: to the meetings and because it was obviously uh things 606 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: we need to dialogue. And one of the discussions was 607 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: and I remember being at the meeting because I said, look, 608 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, we from the industry point of view, think 609 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: you guys are not spending enough money building public shooting 610 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: ranges and we need that. That's where the growth is 611 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: taking place is in uh, the shooting sports. Uh. And 612 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: we all know about the struggles for hunting, but you 613 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: know it's just to your the point we were just 614 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: talking about. The shooters that never go afield are the 615 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: ones that are PAYINGLED you know, the excise tax, right, 616 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,720 Speaker 1: that's where the bulk of the money is coming from 617 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: the firearms ammunition that are being used for target shooting. 618 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: So we think, you guys, should you know, spend more 619 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: money on us. This is what we want to see 620 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: and we're paying the tacks And they say, well, the 621 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: formulas very restrictive and the loss and that's one of 622 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 1: the reasons why they just don't really do it. And 623 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: so we said, what what do you need? What would 624 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: you want? And that became the what we call the 625 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: Range Bill because the name is too long to the 626 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 1: target practice, marksmanship training and Support Act that it's sponsored 627 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: by Senator Capital in the Senate called the Range Bill. 628 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: It's easier and so all the bill will do is 629 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: change that formula in the Pittman Robertson Act to allow 630 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: UM more flexibility in the States to use their Pittman 631 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 1: Robertson allocation. So there's two parts to it. There's the 632 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: match part and then there's the time frame. So it 633 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 1: extends the time period and it reduces help the match 634 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: so UM so that the states have to put up 635 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: less money from their allocation and they have more time 636 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: to get the project done. It has no impact on 637 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: the deficit. It doesn't change the XCES tax up or down. 638 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: It just gives them a little bit more flexibility. So 639 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: it's broadly supported. It is passed the House and the 640 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: Senate in different packages as stand alone's. We have yet 641 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: to get it across the finish line. But hopus because 642 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: why because I want to touch more. But it just 643 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,880 Speaker 1: gets into it gets into a little bit of politics. 644 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: It's what it gets packaged. So a lot of times 645 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: because it's not controversial at all as broad bipartisan support. Well, 646 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 1: I want to point out a controversy. It could pass 647 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: when unanimous can sent us a standalone right like, which 648 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: is what we tried to do. It gets bundled the 649 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: package with other provisions that are that where there is 650 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: disagreement or it's not as bipartisan, and so they try 651 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: to use the bill as a sweetener um to try 652 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: to bring people along on other on other titles in 653 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 1: the bill. And then that big sportsman's package keeps getting 654 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: bogged down and not getting across the finish line. Um. 655 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: Some of it is pure politics because the you know, 656 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 1: the sponsor is it is up for reelection and the 657 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 1: other side doesn't want to give him a win before 658 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: you know, for the election. That's just you know the 659 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: nature of politics, right, I mean, the politics drives policy, 660 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: as they say here in Washington. So, um, so we've 661 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: tried to you know, we've we've had it in the 662 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: n d A A, which is the Defense author you 663 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: know Defense Appropriation Bill with funds d O D. We 664 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: had it in there on one side. It fell out 665 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,840 Speaker 1: in conference because for a number of reasons, basically because 666 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: McCain wasn't around, uh just right before he died, and 667 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: so they kept the bill clean. Nothing extraneous was allowed 668 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: to be kept in so it fell out there. We 669 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: thought we had it done then, so it's we've been 670 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: working on it. I don't know, like six maybe eight years. Yeah, 671 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: but it takes that long. I was watching an interview 672 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 1: with you and you were talking um. You were talking 673 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 1: about just the slow, arguous process of legislation. Yeah, it doesn't. 674 00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: You were managing expectations, yes, like for the Airing Protection Act. Yeah, 675 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: that's what that's what I want to do next pivot. 676 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 1: That would have been a great pivot, but I got 677 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: the back up. I could see a smart I could 678 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:10,760 Speaker 1: see a smart, well meaning person looking at the range 679 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: bill and being nervous or leery or suspicious of the 680 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: fact that you'd be pulling some of the money away 681 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: from wildlife work. But I think what I would tell 682 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: him in that conversation is that would tell him that, Yeah, 683 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: the word investment gets thrown around a lot right in politics, 684 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: like everything's an investment, but you can kind of see 685 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,320 Speaker 1: it as being a I think you can make a 686 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,720 Speaker 1: legitimate case that it is like an investment. By creating 687 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: more opportunities for shooters exactly, you're probably gonna generate You're 688 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 1: gonna generate a lot, You're probably gonna generate a larger 689 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 1: fund and maybe and then with the goal being the 690 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 1: end of the day, actually putting more money towards wildlof 691 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: That's exactly here's the talking points that many many, many 692 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: meetings on the hill, rising tide floats, all boats, shooters 693 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: who are paying for conservation deserve a return on their investment. 694 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 1: And the more public opportunities for shooting, the more consumption 695 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 1: of ammunition, the more purchase of farms, the more funding 696 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 1: for wildlife conservation. Pittman Robertson exercise tax dollars will increase now. 697 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,720 Speaker 1: And the bill does not require the states to do anything, 698 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: It just gives them flexibility they want to do. So 699 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: then if we get this past and then they don't, 700 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: we'll be back saying now, look, you said this is 701 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 1: what you needed, We got it for you. Now please 702 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: go build some more ranges or just improve the ones 703 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,839 Speaker 1: that exist. It doesn't need to be mysterious because it's 704 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 1: something it's like easily trackable. And and maybe you'd see 705 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: a diminishment of um I would like to think you'd 706 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 1: see a diminishment of shot up appliances because we use honestly, 707 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,280 Speaker 1: we use a lot of makeshift You kind of forced 708 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,359 Speaker 1: to We use a lot of makeshift shooting range and 709 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 1: that's part of the concern to this, I mean, is 710 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 1: one of the things that we find from new shooters 711 00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,200 Speaker 1: new hunters is is the barriers to entry. One. Let's 712 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: be honest, it's an expensive sport to get into. Whether 713 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,800 Speaker 1: you're gonna be shooting recreational, you're gonna hunt buying a rifle, 714 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 1: buying licenses, uh, you know, whether you're not, you're gonna 715 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: be buying access through you know, hunt leases, those kinds 716 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,280 Speaker 1: of things. But when you have a public access range, 717 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 1: now that's open to everybody to go use. But again, 718 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:19,440 Speaker 1: what we're seeing here is a lot of range that 719 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: have dilapidated or their ad hoc ranges. And we actually 720 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: had cases out there in Arizona where people were shooting 721 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,440 Speaker 1: on public ranges that weren't maintained and weren't well kept, 722 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: and you had a fatality of a pregnant Air Force 723 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: spouse who was shot and killed by a stray around 724 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,360 Speaker 1: that went beyond the edge of that range, beyond the 725 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,319 Speaker 1: left and right let of limits and and resulted in 726 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: the fatality. We want safe places for people to go shoot. 727 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: It's one of the things we're working are working for 728 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,799 Speaker 1: UM in the council, the Federal Advisory Committee that I'm 729 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: i chair, the Shooting Committee, And that's exactly the discussion 730 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: we've been having is we need places where people can 731 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,080 Speaker 1: go shoot. They need you know, dedicated space so that 732 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,680 Speaker 1: they can be policed. After the Shot Show last year, 733 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,880 Speaker 1: myself and several other folks menaces have went out with 734 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: secretaries Inky and and local volunteers, uh and you know, 735 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: to clean up some blm land where people had been shooting. 736 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,800 Speaker 1: And it was not pretty right. I mean it's the 737 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 1: shot up TVs and refrigerators and couches and just like 738 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 1: it was just it was embarrassing and here was it. 739 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: They're picking this trash up and bags and bag after 740 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 1: bag after bag, and it's like, you know this this 741 00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 1: is not a good you know, if you're not a hunter, 742 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 1: you're not a shooter. You come and saw this, it 743 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 1: would not be you know, you would not have a 744 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,840 Speaker 1: good opinion of the sport or people that participated in 745 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,399 Speaker 1: the sport. You want to point out like I don't um, 746 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: you know you're a shooter. But it does mean I 747 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,640 Speaker 1: condone littering exactly. But they get they get conflated. Yes, 748 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I think it could become a major barrier, 749 00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: right Like for us, we all of us at the 750 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,920 Speaker 1: table can sort of like deal with that and you 751 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: can like make it a safe place when you show 752 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: up and if you see unsafe activity, you can walk away. 753 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 1: But to someone that's just trying to get into it 754 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 1: and you just you show up at a place like that, 755 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,799 Speaker 1: it's like you're not gonna be able to make the 756 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: best of that. You're just gonna turn around and walk away. 757 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 1: It's it becomes it leads to be a lm closing 758 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,839 Speaker 1: off lands, shotting lands now right to shooting. And even 759 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,439 Speaker 1: for us, I feel like there's never like enough shooting ranges. 760 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: And all the places I've lived across the West, um, 761 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 1: I've never lived in a town where there was so 762 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 1: many shooting ranges were on a Saturday, You're like, oh, 763 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,880 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go here and it won't be busy, 764 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,920 Speaker 1: right Like. So when I moved to Virginia, I actually 765 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 1: one of the criteria for the house that I chose 766 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,360 Speaker 1: to live in was the the access to a private 767 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,320 Speaker 1: shooting range is just down the road from my house. 768 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 1: So I mean, that's how important it is for some 769 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:49,560 Speaker 1: of us. We want to know that we can get 770 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 1: somewhere we can shoot. And it's it's a question I 771 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 1: get from people all the time, you know, where can 772 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,760 Speaker 1: I go shoot? I'm fortunate that I've got a public 773 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:57,880 Speaker 1: shooting range not too far from the house where i 774 00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 1: can go shoot swing a shotgun. And I've also got 775 00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:04,279 Speaker 1: a private range where i can go shoot. Yeah, what's 776 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,440 Speaker 1: it called where let's go let's go shooting dot org. Yeah. 777 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 1: I grew up a mile we could ride our bikes 778 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,240 Speaker 1: down to our shoot range. It was it wasn't public. 779 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,080 Speaker 1: It was a private gun club. Twin a gun club, 780 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 1: and you know, you'd have to work hard to find 781 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:21,600 Speaker 1: someone there. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was nice to have. Uh. 782 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,280 Speaker 1: Back to the pivot suppressors. This is something that becomes 783 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,799 Speaker 1: like increasingly interested and I'm actually just entered into the 784 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,480 Speaker 1: prob I just began the process with the help of 785 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: a friend of mine, um, a friend of mine at Vortex. 786 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,880 Speaker 1: I began the process of doing the the rigmarole to 787 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,760 Speaker 1: acquire one. Yeah, when I started it before I started before, 788 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,959 Speaker 1: but at the time there was a fourteen months delay. 789 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,919 Speaker 1: It's probably about nine ten months now. He was saying 790 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,560 Speaker 1: maybe eight maybe it's well then the shot then nothing 791 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,239 Speaker 1: got processed doing I think it's we asked him to 792 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,560 Speaker 1: tell us what the delay is, UM, and it was 793 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,879 Speaker 1: eight months. It's started getting it down. It's probably eight 794 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 1: nine months. A friend of mine actually, UM, that's UM 795 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,799 Speaker 1: got one a year. Yeah, I want to get into that, 796 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,239 Speaker 1: like what that process looks like and what could remedy it. 797 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,720 Speaker 1: But just touched on it, kind of like my personal 798 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:25,359 Speaker 1: awareness of the issue. UM. I hunted with one years 799 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:31,239 Speaker 1: ago how many years ago? Nine years ago in Scotland, Okay, 800 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,400 Speaker 1: and I'm in I'm sitting there with a guy what 801 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:40,560 Speaker 1: do they call the what do they call the guy hunt? Whatever? 802 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,759 Speaker 1: He's like a man, he's like a game man. Yeah there, 803 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,480 Speaker 1: game man's just called Gillies. Shoots tons of shoots tons 804 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,160 Speaker 1: of deer off a big they got, like this huge 805 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,920 Speaker 1: private property like in the state, and this guy shoots 806 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,799 Speaker 1: tons of them for the market. I mean he like, 807 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,360 Speaker 1: you know, they sell red deer, right, they sell wild 808 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,840 Speaker 1: red deer. And he shoots and guts and brings to 809 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: market red deer processes him now processes and but strips 810 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:04,920 Speaker 1: the hide and the only and it well, it was 811 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,520 Speaker 1: funny he only got from the diaphragm down, which there's 812 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: they had a word for it too. Anyways, this guy 813 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,000 Speaker 1: hounts it a suppressor. He had a tik T three 814 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:20,319 Speaker 1: because it's to seventy that my lee with a suppressed round. 815 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,359 Speaker 1: I remember saying that this is years ago, and I 816 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: wasn't like it's aware of them and then and I'm like, 817 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: I can't believe you guys can hunt with these things, 818 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:30,080 Speaker 1: because I can't believe you don't. It's their rule. Yes, 819 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 1: he's not allowed to not use it. That's exactly right. 820 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,000 Speaker 1: Only in America is there this public perception that this 821 00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:42,200 Speaker 1: is some evil device only used has only one purpose, 822 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,719 Speaker 1: that's for gangsters and assassins, right like, and as you say, 823 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,560 Speaker 1: and the rest of the world that doesn't have that connotation. 824 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,520 Speaker 1: It's required for hunting in many parts, even the countries 825 00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,680 Speaker 1: that have a very restrict Finland, like you, even if 826 00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,239 Speaker 1: you're out, you know, when going around for miles, you 827 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,799 Speaker 1: still required by law there to use it. You can 828 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:09,040 Speaker 1: buy them like hardware stores in London. Right in England 829 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,120 Speaker 1: they're not. You can buy them and jailing in like 830 00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,439 Speaker 1: they come from China. They're made up plastic and they're 831 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:19,240 Speaker 1: disposable and they cost like bucks. I've been told, um, 832 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,239 Speaker 1: only in America do you have this connotations. But you 833 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,239 Speaker 1: they are legal to possess in forty two states. You 834 00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,600 Speaker 1: gotta jump through all the hoops, but they're legal and 835 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,520 Speaker 1: forty two stags and you can hunt with them now 836 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:35,080 Speaker 1: in forty states. So you know, there's the let there's 837 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 1: the legislation that's been pending for a while called the 838 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,399 Speaker 1: Hearing Protection Act. I want to talk more. I want 839 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,360 Speaker 1: to talk theory for a couple more minutes, and I 840 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:44,920 Speaker 1: want to talk about all this other stuff because this 841 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,120 Speaker 1: is stuff, this stuff I don't actually don't understand. We 842 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:48,719 Speaker 1: want to talk about the theory of it from mr. 843 00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:55,279 Speaker 1: Because the best argument I've heard against suppressors was from 844 00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,680 Speaker 1: a remember just we're hunting swamp rabbits and can talk 845 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 1: to do We're talking to a game hunting with a 846 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,600 Speaker 1: game warden, and I think I've told I've told this 847 00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,279 Speaker 1: story like too many times. Are about to tell one 848 00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,319 Speaker 1: more time that I'm never gonna tell it again. We're 849 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,920 Speaker 1: talking to him and he was saying how during general 850 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 1: firearms season, hunting for him is out of the question. 851 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,640 Speaker 1: He's just too busy doing his work as a game ward, 852 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,040 Speaker 1: but he says he does like to uh squeeze in 853 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 1: some archery hunting. He says, but my problem is I 854 00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,319 Speaker 1: get up in my tree stand. It's bow season and 855 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:32,839 Speaker 1: it gets around prime time and often the distance pouch right. 856 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:38,480 Speaker 1: He's like something about that shot doesn't sound right, and 857 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,120 Speaker 1: he says that I'm down out of my tree stand 858 00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,200 Speaker 1: heading over in some direction, and he was saying that. 859 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,640 Speaker 1: He also said that Facebook is a very important has 860 00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,320 Speaker 1: become has emerged as a very good law enforcement tool. 861 00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:50,800 Speaker 1: He said, like, I don't need to go out on 862 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,640 Speaker 1: the bois bar. I got Facebook. But he said, like 863 00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:57,160 Speaker 1: that sound is important. Is an important tool for him, 864 00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:04,759 Speaker 1: And he was leery of suppressor because the gunshot right. 865 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,799 Speaker 1: But then I think about, like and I took that 866 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:09,759 Speaker 1: in and and I thought about But then more I 867 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,399 Speaker 1: think about it is like the way we the way 868 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:16,960 Speaker 1: we're trained to view wildlife and in the wildlife models 869 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,640 Speaker 1: that we have is where we're trained to view it 870 00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,759 Speaker 1: or not trained to. It's necessary to view wildlife at 871 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:29,319 Speaker 1: population level. So I just have the more thing. I 872 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,680 Speaker 1: just have a very hard time picturing that you would 873 00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:45,000 Speaker 1: see even localized population impact from if some small number 874 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,440 Speaker 1: of poachers use that technology along with all the other 875 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:52,359 Speaker 1: technologies available to them, including cross bowls, which are much quieter. Um, 876 00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,960 Speaker 1: I just can't see, like, I can't see their becoming 877 00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:03,800 Speaker 1: significant population level declines game because of this this other tool. 878 00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,680 Speaker 1: So let's back up. Yeah, so let's just back up 879 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,120 Speaker 1: a second to what your your game warden is telling you. 880 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 1: Cause I've got a guy I used to work for 881 00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,080 Speaker 1: him Marine Corpt. And he retired andies the game ward 882 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,920 Speaker 1: in Florida, and his initial reactions suppressor is the same thing. 883 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,799 Speaker 1: They're gonna be a tool for poachers all the time. 884 00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,839 Speaker 1: But something the key that you said. So the game 885 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,839 Speaker 1: ward sitting in his tree stand and he hears this 886 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:29,760 Speaker 1: gun shot slightly different, doesn't sound like a normal gun shot, 887 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,560 Speaker 1: but he still hears it. So here's the point about it. 888 00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,680 Speaker 1: I misspoke. Not No, he wasn't pointing that out where 889 00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,520 Speaker 1: he was pointing. He wasn't saying it was a suppressed 890 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,920 Speaker 1: gun shot, just the timing of the gun shot, meaning 891 00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,680 Speaker 1: a single gun shot at dusk. Sure, Okay, yeah, I 892 00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,879 Speaker 1: got it. So you still hear this gun shot, But again, 893 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,400 Speaker 1: the whole deal was suppressors, is it doesn't completely silence 894 00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:53,960 Speaker 1: the gun. It brings it down from the same decibel 895 00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,600 Speaker 1: level of about a jet going off to about below 896 00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,560 Speaker 1: a jackhammer, where it's not going to cause instant and 897 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,439 Speaker 1: permanent here laws, you can still hear that exactly. That's 898 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,919 Speaker 1: why we in the law they're called silencers because that's 899 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:12,000 Speaker 1: the name Maxim gave to it when he invented it, 900 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,640 Speaker 1: right like, and he's the guy that he it was 901 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,120 Speaker 1: he invented the muffler on cars. It is. Its function 902 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,040 Speaker 1: is the same as a muffler. You can still hear 903 00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,360 Speaker 1: a car with a muffler. Without the muffler. It's a 904 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:32,480 Speaker 1: lot louder, but that's all it is. It muffles straight pipes. Yeah, 905 00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:38,280 Speaker 1: so that's why we always refer to it as suppressors, 906 00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,359 Speaker 1: not not silencers. It's, you know, even though the law 907 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,920 Speaker 1: of suncers, you know, to try to win the rhetorical 908 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:50,200 Speaker 1: battle is I understand it. UM. The best research UM 909 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,040 Speaker 1: on the on the issues was done by UM Steve Hallbrook, 910 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:58,000 Speaker 1: a lawyer. Second Amendment Abbas argued many Supreme Court cases 911 00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:03,200 Speaker 1: and he's written a number of books. The UM. The 912 00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:09,440 Speaker 1: reason that suppressors were put in the National Firms Act 913 00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,919 Speaker 1: was at the request of fishing game agencies because they 914 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:20,719 Speaker 1: were concerned that people would use suppressors to poach game 915 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,520 Speaker 1: during the depression. That's where it came from. Yes, and 916 00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:28,000 Speaker 1: it never happened. And and now they're legal in hunt 917 00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,600 Speaker 1: within forty states and I've not seen any evidence or 918 00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:35,759 Speaker 1: suggestion that you know, people are poaching and it's having 919 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:40,479 Speaker 1: an impact on population localized. Okay, but you can poach 920 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,080 Speaker 1: with a crossbow. No one talking about getting rid of crossbows. 921 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,920 Speaker 1: It's like an effect. There's plenty of if you follow 922 00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,000 Speaker 1: the news, there's plenty of poaching that goes down with 923 00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,640 Speaker 1: archery equipment. But no one's suggesting, hey, we should be 924 00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:54,960 Speaker 1: allowed to have bows because they're so quiet and you 925 00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,239 Speaker 1: can poach with them. But even take it outside the 926 00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,239 Speaker 1: context of hunting, right, I mean, like if you go 927 00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,600 Speaker 1: to a shooting range. One of the biggest complaints or 928 00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:06,319 Speaker 1: issues for shooting ranges is noise complaints from neighbors. Right. 929 00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,520 Speaker 1: Typically it's you know, the rangers in rural area and 930 00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,759 Speaker 1: then the suburbs move in. People move next to a 931 00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,040 Speaker 1: shooting range, and then they're shocked to learn that they're 932 00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:20,239 Speaker 1: shooting at the shooting range. On Saturday morning. So if 933 00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:25,919 Speaker 1: you're range that I moved next to, so it will 934 00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,040 Speaker 1: allow people at shooting rate ranges to be better neighbors 935 00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,719 Speaker 1: and to sort of address that concern and issue. But 936 00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:37,440 Speaker 1: and if let's assume there was some evidence that developed 937 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,080 Speaker 1: that we got a problem in this state or this 938 00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,799 Speaker 1: part of the state where you know we're seeing in 939 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,879 Speaker 1: reduction in an adverse population. In fact, we think there's 940 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,719 Speaker 1: a lot of coaching and people using suppressors, Well, then 941 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:53,560 Speaker 1: you can state fishing gamage. She has the power to 942 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,520 Speaker 1: you know, manage that and say okay, you can't use 943 00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:59,719 Speaker 1: suppressors now. But I mean, if people are approaching the 944 00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,319 Speaker 1: breaking the law, all right, I mean it's like so, 945 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:05,880 Speaker 1: but I don't think there's any evidence of that and 946 00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,080 Speaker 1: they never used in crime. I mean, like you can't 947 00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:12,080 Speaker 1: find evidence of a t come out and say it's 948 00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:19,160 Speaker 1: infantesimally low. I mean, they can't zero Another thing that 949 00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:20,440 Speaker 1: I think But when I look at it, as I 950 00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:22,000 Speaker 1: was kind of kicking this whole thing around, is that 951 00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:29,840 Speaker 1: why why why does shooters have to like why do 952 00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,160 Speaker 1: we have to as a matter of law, except how 953 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:38,000 Speaker 1: loud a firearm is, Like if firearmer is naturally quiet. 954 00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,480 Speaker 1: Would there be legislation that made you make it loud? 955 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,879 Speaker 1: So one of the arguments against the Hearing Protection Act 956 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,560 Speaker 1: from the gun control groups is that, you know, the police, 957 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,840 Speaker 1: it would defeat this technology that was developed in Iraq 958 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,680 Speaker 1: and now being used in some city spot shot shot 959 00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:58,879 Speaker 1: spotter and the CEO of the company said no, the 960 00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:04,040 Speaker 1: technology would still a coup report of suppressed firearms and 961 00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,319 Speaker 1: all they have to do is tweak the software. So yeah, 962 00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:11,760 Speaker 1: that that became the argument like that somehow bad guys 963 00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,680 Speaker 1: are gonna get go through the rigamarole and get suppressors. 964 00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:17,720 Speaker 1: I mean it's just thinking, get them now the legal 965 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,720 Speaker 1: and forty two states, and you don't see crimes being 966 00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:24,160 Speaker 1: committed with them. The thing to nothing that nothing changed 967 00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:28,680 Speaker 1: my perspectives as I kicked it around. Um, I think 968 00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,360 Speaker 1: having kids kind of affected to because I have hearing loss. 969 00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm left handed and I have hearing loss in my 970 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,600 Speaker 1: left ear. What you don't say, I mean everybody hang 971 00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:41,040 Speaker 1: out with everyone. I hang out with one another. Yeah, 972 00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:47,240 Speaker 1: so I have it and now it's largely self inflicted. Okay, 973 00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,800 Speaker 1: because I've known for my adult life then and I'm 974 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:52,440 Speaker 1: bad about it. I need to be better. But I'm 975 00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,680 Speaker 1: bad about hearing protection. Um lazy about hearing protection. When 976 00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:58,360 Speaker 1: I was a kid, it wasn't self inflicted. It was 977 00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,360 Speaker 1: just that my dad had no where the didn't have 978 00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,440 Speaker 1: awareness of it. He probably I can only imagine what 979 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:05,040 Speaker 1: kind of hearing. A lot of emails they had from 980 00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:10,960 Speaker 1: being you know, uh, combat soldier. But uh, now, man, 981 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,439 Speaker 1: when I when I'm with my kids we're shooting, I'm 982 00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,760 Speaker 1: very aware of the ear thing. In fact, I made 983 00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,080 Speaker 1: my kid we're all duck hunting, and I made him 984 00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,800 Speaker 1: sit there with the headphones on. You know, he can't 985 00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:25,680 Speaker 1: hear it. I'd be yelling at him to go grab 986 00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,720 Speaker 1: a doct or somebody. Can't hear anything everybody's saying. But 987 00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:29,960 Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm aware of it now. And so 988 00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,600 Speaker 1: when he's ten where we live, he can hunt with me. 989 00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,240 Speaker 1: You can hunt deer with me when he's ten, and 990 00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have him home with the suppress rifle. Yeah. 991 00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,640 Speaker 1: And there's other benefits aside from the from the here, 992 00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:46,800 Speaker 1: from the hearing protection of it all. I mean, it's 993 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:50,680 Speaker 1: reduced recoil, it's it's it's less of a muzzle flash. 994 00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:52,640 Speaker 1: It's it's when you're trying to introduce someone to the 995 00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,240 Speaker 1: shooting sports, into hunting, and you're able to sit there, 996 00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:57,040 Speaker 1: especially if you're gonna be hunting out of a out 997 00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:58,480 Speaker 1: of a shoothouse or out of a blond or you're 998 00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,200 Speaker 1: sitting at a tree stand in close proxim need to 999 00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,200 Speaker 1: one another. It's it's less of that shock that's coming 1000 00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,000 Speaker 1: out of the end of the barrel and the muscle blast. 1001 00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,240 Speaker 1: So it takes it up and it makes that learning 1002 00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,680 Speaker 1: experience for someone new, like a ten year old kid, 1003 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:12,560 Speaker 1: it's gonna be a little bit more enjoyable, a little 1004 00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,400 Speaker 1: bit less intimidating. It takes some of that that scariness 1005 00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,760 Speaker 1: out of it. So yeah, I'm definitely saying I'm sensitive 1006 00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,920 Speaker 1: to I'm saying I don't want to like diminish the 1007 00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:26,720 Speaker 1: arguments against and I'm sensitive to it. But I just 1008 00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,040 Speaker 1: I just feel like it's a situation where the pros 1009 00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,320 Speaker 1: really outweighed the cons in my mind, and the cons 1010 00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,720 Speaker 1: haven't aren't the cons aren't demonstrated their hypothetical comment. The 1011 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,880 Speaker 1: opposition to it comes from gun control groups, and they 1012 00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:45,080 Speaker 1: don't have any to me, you know, good case or 1013 00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:48,920 Speaker 1: good arguments at all. And in fact, you know it 1014 00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,840 Speaker 1: would be good for a t F because they spend 1015 00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:57,240 Speaker 1: an enormous amount of time and energy and money processing 1016 00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:01,560 Speaker 1: these paper the paperwork where and uh, you know this 1017 01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,400 Speaker 1: is not a public this is not a you know, 1018 01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,360 Speaker 1: public safety issue. It's not going to result in crime 1019 01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,600 Speaker 1: or anything like that. And they spend an incredible amount 1020 01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:13,320 Speaker 1: of time processing these form force you have to fill 1021 01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,080 Speaker 1: out and explain the process like would involved. Yeah, so, yeah, 1022 01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:19,120 Speaker 1: there's a two hundred tax that you have to pay 1023 01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:23,920 Speaker 1: um and you have bought this form. You have to 1024 01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,760 Speaker 1: get you know, pictures, fingerprints and the forum and send 1025 01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:29,600 Speaker 1: it in with two hundred dollars to a t F 1026 01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:34,520 Speaker 1: and notification of the Chief law enforce PRIs who does 1027 01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:42,160 Speaker 1: want with it nothing? Uh, And then the two goes 1028 01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:46,120 Speaker 1: to the treasury a t F process of paperwork, and 1029 01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,680 Speaker 1: they do a background check. Guess what the background check is? 1030 01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:51,600 Speaker 1: The exact same background check you go through and you 1031 01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,560 Speaker 1: buy a gun at retail, right, the exact same check. 1032 01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,400 Speaker 1: What does it take because there's just stacks of paper, 1033 01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:04,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's all paper, right, So, so ways 1034 01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,760 Speaker 1: to improve it would be electronic forms. Some of the 1035 01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:12,480 Speaker 1: discussions about how you might do legislation would be the 1036 01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,160 Speaker 1: The original act was to take it out of the 1037 01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:18,919 Speaker 1: n f A. Suppressors are also in the Gun Control Act. Right, 1038 01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:22,000 Speaker 1: So even if you took it out of the National 1039 01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,680 Speaker 1: Firms Act, so you didn't have to pay the two dollars, 1040 01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:26,400 Speaker 1: you didn't have to do the form for the same 1041 01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,160 Speaker 1: thing that makes it fully automatic. That's the same that's 1042 01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:35,400 Speaker 1: the same act that covers automatic. Right, yes, exactly. So, Um, 1043 01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,160 Speaker 1: if you took it out of the National Firms Act, 1044 01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:39,440 Speaker 1: it would still be in the Gun Control Act. So 1045 01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:42,360 Speaker 1: if you would, so they would still be serialized, they 1046 01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:46,600 Speaker 1: would still be seventy three and a background check performed 1047 01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,000 Speaker 1: on the purchase, or the same background check they do 1048 01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:51,080 Speaker 1: a second time when they go to pick up the suppressor, 1049 01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,000 Speaker 1: So you're doing the same same check twice. What's the point? Right? 1050 01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,720 Speaker 1: So that would like then then you know, the manufacturers 1051 01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:00,640 Speaker 1: could ship into license the liers and you can go 1052 01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:02,600 Speaker 1: in and you can have him an inventory. You can 1053 01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:07,320 Speaker 1: go buy one and go through the same right. So 1054 01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,680 Speaker 1: there are some but there's one bill that's been introduced 1055 01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:12,560 Speaker 1: in the Senate that would take it even out of 1056 01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,680 Speaker 1: the Gun Control Act. Um, you know, and it would 1057 01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:18,760 Speaker 1: be wouldn't be regulated or just be like any other 1058 01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,760 Speaker 1: accessory because it's not a farmer doesn't do anything and 1059 01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,040 Speaker 1: only you know, as we talked to you, just it's 1060 01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:27,160 Speaker 1: an attachment that you would put on a firearm. So 1061 01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:30,200 Speaker 1: the argument be, what's why is this being controlled at all? 1062 01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:34,880 Speaker 1: So you know whether that's Look, the legislation didn't move 1063 01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:38,640 Speaker 1: into Republican controlled House and Senate because there's a lot 1064 01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:41,080 Speaker 1: of misinformation out there and a lot of education needs 1065 01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:45,200 Speaker 1: to be done. Um, you know so, but in a 1066 01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,680 Speaker 1: Democrat controlled House where you know they're having hearings today 1067 01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:53,640 Speaker 1: on gun control legislation, the prospects of moving that legislation 1068 01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:58,680 Speaker 1: in this Congress is you know, it's not feasible in 1069 01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:02,760 Speaker 1: my opinion, even like even with the arguments around just 1070 01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:07,880 Speaker 1: safety issues. Yeah, I mean, it becomes a political issue. 1071 01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:12,840 Speaker 1: They're not going to pass anything like it. It's not 1072 01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:20,040 Speaker 1: gonna happen. Yeah, can you talk. But I mean even 1073 01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:23,800 Speaker 1: even when the Republicans control the House, was still difficult 1074 01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,080 Speaker 1: to move the bill and in the Senate as well. 1075 01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:29,200 Speaker 1: I mean it was just you know, we didn't get 1076 01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:31,280 Speaker 1: enough co sponsors, we didn't get enough movement on it. 1077 01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:34,920 Speaker 1: So it takes a lot of time. It takes years 1078 01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:38,200 Speaker 1: and years and years happen. I think I will. It's 1079 01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:41,120 Speaker 1: gonna take a while longer, So I would say you 1080 01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:45,040 Speaker 1: probably he He's go in a minute, or it could 1081 01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:49,680 Speaker 1: take another ten years. When when here In Protection Act 1082 01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:52,240 Speaker 1: was introduced in the last Congress, and we saw a 1083 01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,560 Speaker 1: lot of people got very excited and they kind of 1084 01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:56,280 Speaker 1: sat out on the sidelines. But I'm gonna wait. So 1085 01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:57,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to pay the tour in all attacks and 1086 01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:01,320 Speaker 1: wait nine months, so we're back to where we're telling him, 1087 01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:04,960 Speaker 1: then don't wait because things in Congress are glacial. So 1088 01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:09,560 Speaker 1: if you want a suppression, I would completely agree. If 1089 01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:11,840 Speaker 1: you're holding off anyone because you think you're not gonna 1090 01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,680 Speaker 1: pay the two under all attacks, yeah you can be 1091 01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,360 Speaker 1: waiting a long time. Unfortunately, I had dinner recently with 1092 01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:20,360 Speaker 1: one of the state uh with a state legislator in 1093 01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:25,920 Speaker 1: Montana who was um who worked heavily on the on 1094 01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,880 Speaker 1: the one that that the that allowed for hunting in Montana, 1095 01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:31,920 Speaker 1: and then they had had some resistance, They had had 1096 01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:34,120 Speaker 1: some resistance there against fishing game. Yeah, I don't I 1097 01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:35,160 Speaker 1: don't know if it was I don't know if it 1098 01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:37,160 Speaker 1: was a real strenuous resistance but there was some there 1099 01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,840 Speaker 1: was some resistance. So there's been efforts to events around 1100 01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:45,960 Speaker 1: the country UM done by the American Suppress Association and 1101 01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,560 Speaker 1: SPIST helped out, and RA has helped out as well. 1102 01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:53,440 Speaker 1: To educate state legislators. We did an event at the 1103 01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:56,560 Speaker 1: UM shooting Rage and Rayburn Building. Did you know that 1104 01:04:56,600 --> 01:05:01,000 Speaker 1: there's a there's a range and ranger New Congress. Oh, 1105 01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:04,840 Speaker 1: it's for the Capital Hill Police. But we had the 1106 01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:09,080 Speaker 1: member host an event for other members so that they 1107 01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:14,440 Speaker 1: could come in here for themselves. The difference between expressed 1108 01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,080 Speaker 1: and unspressed firearm and that there's still a very loud 1109 01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:20,760 Speaker 1: report you can hear and it's not silenced in any way, 1110 01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:23,240 Speaker 1: shape or form. What you see on TV, you know, 1111 01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:26,160 Speaker 1: like you know, like the puff of air and it's 1112 01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:30,120 Speaker 1: just not reality. Would you want with one? Definitely? What 1113 01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,160 Speaker 1: I was gonna add that I didn't know about, but 1114 01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:35,320 Speaker 1: we were looking into doing a podcast just about hearing 1115 01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,800 Speaker 1: loss and hearing protection and whatnot, and talking to a 1116 01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:39,760 Speaker 1: bunch of these experts, they were saying, Yeah, the one 1117 01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:46,080 Speaker 1: thing that it would be a very loud but important 1118 01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,600 Speaker 1: right like obviously not as so important to year old, 1119 01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:52,440 Speaker 1: but as we age and you start to realize that 1120 01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:54,520 Speaker 1: you're losing it and you want to protect your kids, 1121 01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:56,959 Speaker 1: on and on. But um, a lot of these guys 1122 01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,680 Speaker 1: were saying that, Yeah, it's like it only minimized it 1123 01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:01,880 Speaker 1: so much that it takes it down to like you're 1124 01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:05,960 Speaker 1: saying to it, but you're still if you don't run 1125 01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:10,280 Speaker 1: your protection while you shoot a suppressed going, you are 1126 01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:14,360 Speaker 1: still getting hearing damage. It's not a like you just 1127 01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:17,280 Speaker 1: put it on and you're just off you go. Like 1128 01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:19,400 Speaker 1: everyone I talked to you said, you should still wear 1129 01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:23,200 Speaker 1: hearing protection. That's probably the best argument the other side 1130 01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:26,840 Speaker 1: has is but when you say you know, hearing protection 1131 01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:31,440 Speaker 1: and they say we're hearing protection, you know, yeah, what 1132 01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:39,080 Speaker 1: the tonality is why you shouldn't be shooting anyway? Uh, 1133 01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:45,240 Speaker 1: background checks? Can you explain? I heard a story now, 1134 01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:46,960 Speaker 1: I heard a story I was living. I was living 1135 01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:48,960 Speaker 1: in Washington when I heard the story. I heard a 1136 01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:53,000 Speaker 1: story about how if you lie on your background check, 1137 01:06:54,000 --> 01:07:01,000 Speaker 1: that the prosecutors don't prosecute people who lie on background checks, 1138 01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,240 Speaker 1: and even interviewed I think someone from the King County 1139 01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,880 Speaker 1: Sheriff's department, so that the county that holds Seattle, and 1140 01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:12,919 Speaker 1: he even confirmed I can't remember how many people some 1141 01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:20,960 Speaker 1: staggering number dusing the hundreds of thousands of people who 1142 01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:23,640 Speaker 1: tried to buy one and led on a background check, 1143 01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:26,600 Speaker 1: but then don't get in trouble for having lied on 1144 01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:31,000 Speaker 1: the background check. Do you understand this at all? I 1145 01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:32,960 Speaker 1: don't even under something if I'm explaining it right. But 1146 01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,880 Speaker 1: it's a story when you fell out the forum. It's 1147 01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:39,080 Speaker 1: called the forum seventy three. Anyone has purchased a gun 1148 01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:42,080 Speaker 1: from a license dealer has build it out and then 1149 01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:44,320 Speaker 1: they ask you questions, are you you know, are you 1150 01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:48,400 Speaker 1: a felon? Just honor the discharged? You know here illegally 1151 01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:54,920 Speaker 1: restraining order? Right, so that like seven categories to make 1152 01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:57,720 Speaker 1: you a privative person and then you sign it and 1153 01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:00,520 Speaker 1: you swear to the accuracy of it. So you lie 1154 01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:04,680 Speaker 1: in the forum. Um, it's a crime, federal crime, and 1155 01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:09,640 Speaker 1: you get up ten years in jail. But well, so 1156 01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:11,960 Speaker 1: what hass So then to do the background check, right, 1157 01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:17,360 Speaker 1: and let's say the persons denied right or um you 1158 01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:21,360 Speaker 1: even have cases where people don't lie in the forum. 1159 01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:24,200 Speaker 1: Uh hre they lie in the forum and they passed 1160 01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:26,519 Speaker 1: the background check. But let's say you've fill out the form, 1161 01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:29,519 Speaker 1: you lie say you aren't a convicted felon when you are, 1162 01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:34,120 Speaker 1: and you get denied, right, So when that happens, the 1163 01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:38,400 Speaker 1: FBI notifies the dealer is not told why you're denied. 1164 01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:41,519 Speaker 1: You don't know what the counter The dealer does not know. 1165 01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:46,640 Speaker 1: They just know it's like you know, green light, you 1166 01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:50,559 Speaker 1: know yellow their delay red light. You know, you're denied, 1167 01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:52,639 Speaker 1: and they don't know why you're denied. And they all 1168 01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,040 Speaker 1: and so they can't tell the customer why they're denied. 1169 01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:57,280 Speaker 1: They can just give them information that if they wanted 1170 01:08:57,280 --> 01:09:01,799 Speaker 1: to file and appeal with the FBI with NIXT, which 1171 01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:04,640 Speaker 1: you can do if you think it was you know, 1172 01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:08,200 Speaker 1: they're mistaken, and some small number of times that they 1173 01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,840 Speaker 1: are because primarily in name check and so you know, 1174 01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,000 Speaker 1: somebody can have a similar name, similar data birth with 1175 01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:17,720 Speaker 1: somebody else and and they think, you know, this is 1176 01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:21,719 Speaker 1: John Doe a not John Dobe. Your buddy Kevin Murphy 1177 01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:24,240 Speaker 1: wanted up on a no fly list because mother Kevin Murphy. 1178 01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:26,599 Speaker 1: Exactly how hell Kevin Murphy. They're gonna be running out 1179 01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:31,559 Speaker 1: as I don't know, but so uh, but so the 1180 01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:35,080 Speaker 1: FBI will tell a t F Okay, there was and 1181 01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:38,880 Speaker 1: then a t f UM. You know, uh, it's their 1182 01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,519 Speaker 1: job to go out and track these people down. It's 1183 01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:45,200 Speaker 1: a yes because at the federal crime and if the 1184 01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:48,760 Speaker 1: firearm was transferred the persons supportive person so that so 1185 01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:51,680 Speaker 1: but then it becomes a resource issue. A lot of 1186 01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:57,720 Speaker 1: times what I've heard is, you know the let's say, uh, 1187 01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,280 Speaker 1: this is the example is given told to me. You 1188 01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:05,160 Speaker 1: got an eighty year old grandfather buying a gun to 1189 01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:08,639 Speaker 1: give to a gift to their grandchild or something like that. 1190 01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:12,720 Speaker 1: And you know that when they tipped that cow over 1191 01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:16,680 Speaker 1: in college and in nineteen fifty three, that was a 1192 01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:19,600 Speaker 1: felony under state law, right and they were convicted of 1193 01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:21,799 Speaker 1: a felony. They didn't even know it was a felony, 1194 01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:24,439 Speaker 1: and so they get denied. You know, are you going 1195 01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:28,600 Speaker 1: to prosecute that person? Is that worth using the prosecutor resources? 1196 01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:31,120 Speaker 1: So a lot of times h said, look, just give 1197 01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:33,679 Speaker 1: us the gun back. You can't buy guns your private 1198 01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:37,800 Speaker 1: person um and that sort of situation. Or you're the 1199 01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,280 Speaker 1: United States Attorney's Office, you have limited resources. You want 1200 01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:43,400 Speaker 1: to have the most bang for your buck if you 1201 01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:47,280 Speaker 1: will impact on reducing violent crime. They look at that, 1202 01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:49,680 Speaker 1: and I'm a former prosecutor, so I can understand this. 1203 01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:53,360 Speaker 1: Look I got I'm working, you know, on convicting these 1204 01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:56,720 Speaker 1: gang bangers who are selling drugs and involved in shootings 1205 01:10:56,720 --> 01:11:00,520 Speaker 1: and such. Or am I gonna go after Grandpa um 1206 01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:04,680 Speaker 1: because he didn't realize, you know, forty years ago that 1207 01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,080 Speaker 1: was a felony. How are you going to use your resources? 1208 01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:09,439 Speaker 1: Which is more important to impact in public safety? I 1209 01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:12,559 Speaker 1: mean that's a very extreme example, but but there are people. 1210 01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:15,320 Speaker 1: You know, if it's a convicted felon that's a bad 1211 01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:17,840 Speaker 1: guy and they bought a gun, those are the people 1212 01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:21,320 Speaker 1: they would get prosecuted. Um. So it just kind of 1213 01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:24,400 Speaker 1: depends on why they were denied. And you know what, 1214 01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,200 Speaker 1: what's the best use of limited resources? I mean, the 1215 01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:31,000 Speaker 1: government is no different than anybody else. You've got limited resources. 1216 01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,560 Speaker 1: You have to make decisions to maximize the resources to 1217 01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:39,759 Speaker 1: have the most impact. Can you explain where background checks 1218 01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:42,080 Speaker 1: that you that you get when you go, like you 1219 01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:45,680 Speaker 1: go into a you know, sports and warehouse by a 1220 01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:48,080 Speaker 1: rifle off the counter, you do a background check. Can 1221 01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:53,680 Speaker 1: you explain what people say when they when people talk 1222 01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:58,280 Speaker 1: about the need for universal background checks and where within 1223 01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:02,559 Speaker 1: universal background checks it like, what's your perspective on it 1224 01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:04,360 Speaker 1: and where in that you have where in that you 1225 01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:08,360 Speaker 1: have a problem. So if you ever buy firearm from 1226 01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:11,960 Speaker 1: a licensed dealer, that's there's a background check that's required 1227 01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:16,360 Speaker 1: by law m Brady Act. And you know, we the 1228 01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:19,280 Speaker 1: industry supports that. Actually, the idea of the background check 1229 01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:22,320 Speaker 1: at the retail point of purchase from a licensee, it 1230 01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:26,040 Speaker 1: was an industry idea long before the Brady your your 1231 01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:30,160 Speaker 1: organization supports. Yes, it was an industry idea, like because 1232 01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:34,479 Speaker 1: the deal we don't want dealers inadvertently selling guns to 1233 01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:38,599 Speaker 1: primitive persons, right, we can all agree it's we don't 1234 01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:43,759 Speaker 1: want primitive people getting firearms. What we have seen, however, 1235 01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:46,880 Speaker 1: is that the background check system that exists now has 1236 01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:51,800 Speaker 1: got some pretty significant problems. And the background checks are 1237 01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:56,360 Speaker 1: not always accurate, and they're not always the data. I mean, 1238 01:12:57,960 --> 01:12:59,960 Speaker 1: the data in the background check system is only as 1239 01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:02,400 Speaker 1: good as the data that's put in and if data 1240 01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:05,439 Speaker 1: is not put in right. So look at Sutherland Springs, 1241 01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:09,920 Speaker 1: there was a guy who was a primitive person, like 1242 01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:17,080 Speaker 1: four three or four different ways. Uh, yes, felony conviction. 1243 01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:21,479 Speaker 1: This aren't only discharged to domestic violence. And who do 1244 01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:23,360 Speaker 1: you say four different ways like he had like he 1245 01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:27,880 Speaker 1: was dependent, arrived independently four times, and he was involunt 1246 01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,519 Speaker 1: involuntarily committed to mental health facility and the Air Force 1247 01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:33,719 Speaker 1: and all of d o D, not just the Air Force. 1248 01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:36,280 Speaker 1: He happened to be up in the Air Force at 1249 01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:39,559 Speaker 1: the time. We're not putting the records into the FBI 1250 01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:45,760 Speaker 1: background check system of out of a like out of 1251 01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:56,120 Speaker 1: a intellectual opposition of just and and it's frustrating because 1252 01:13:57,240 --> 01:14:02,000 Speaker 1: I mean, there were apparently i G reports talking about 1253 01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:05,360 Speaker 1: this in the past. Nicks was aware that the d 1254 01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:07,880 Speaker 1: o D wasn't putting in records, so that guy was 1255 01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:12,160 Speaker 1: able to buy fires four times, going to a store 1256 01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:15,360 Speaker 1: or license dealer, buying again, passing a background check four 1257 01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:18,760 Speaker 1: times because those records were not in the system. East 1258 01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:20,680 Speaker 1: time that retailer at the counters want to make sure 1259 01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:22,240 Speaker 1: that he's doing the right thing, and he's running the 1260 01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:25,360 Speaker 1: background check on this guy who should never want a firearm, 1261 01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:27,880 Speaker 1: and he's coming back clean. He has no idea the 1262 01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:32,519 Speaker 1: deal was relying upon that background check, right, so um so, 1263 01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:38,360 Speaker 1: and then after the tragedy in Newtown, you know, we 1264 01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:42,520 Speaker 1: launched an initiative and there have been some federal legislation 1265 01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:44,639 Speaker 1: in the past, but it really just didn't wasn't getting 1266 01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:48,439 Speaker 1: the job done. We started NSSF, that is, started the 1267 01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:53,080 Speaker 1: Fixed Knicks campaign and on the industry's nickel, we went 1268 01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:56,759 Speaker 1: around and got the law change. Now in sixteen states 1269 01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,720 Speaker 1: were still working on more UH. Montana is one of them, 1270 01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:03,679 Speaker 1: me right, Wyoming, New Hampshire, Montana, Wyoming are the three 1271 01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:06,880 Speaker 1: states that we're still targeting and then we want to 1272 01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:09,200 Speaker 1: make improvements. But we've we changed a law in sixteen 1273 01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:15,640 Speaker 1: states UH to require the states to put disqualifying records 1274 01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:19,920 Speaker 1: into the FBI database. Primarily what was really missing was 1275 01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:23,320 Speaker 1: mental health records because states were not reporting mental health 1276 01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:25,920 Speaker 1: records because of privacy laws or states we had to 1277 01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:28,840 Speaker 1: change state law because they weren't allowed to under state law, 1278 01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:32,400 Speaker 1: and the federal government cannot compel under federal law of 1279 01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:36,200 Speaker 1: the states to give the information that they can't, right, 1280 01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:39,479 Speaker 1: so it has to be done, you know, voluntarily by 1281 01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:42,200 Speaker 1: the states. So we got the law change in sixteen states. 1282 01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:45,479 Speaker 1: We increased the disqualifying mental health records in the database, 1283 01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:49,000 Speaker 1: the f BAD database by two They went from about 1284 01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,680 Speaker 1: one point seven million to five million. And again there 1285 01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:56,439 Speaker 1: are still states that UM are not submitting, and we're 1286 01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:58,400 Speaker 1: going back and looking at the states, like did they 1287 01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:01,240 Speaker 1: just put do a big up once and then have 1288 01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,320 Speaker 1: they continue to report as they should. So we're very 1289 01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:07,120 Speaker 1: proud of that, Like we did that, the industry did that. 1290 01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,839 Speaker 1: Now our view is you have to fix the background 1291 01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,280 Speaker 1: sex system. Hence NICKS is the national instant criminal background 1292 01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:18,320 Speaker 1: check system NICKS, and I see us fixed next to us. 1293 01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:21,519 Speaker 1: It makes no sense to start expanding, you know, private 1294 01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:23,880 Speaker 1: party background checks when you you have a system that 1295 01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:26,680 Speaker 1: needs to be fixed in the first instance, right Like 1296 01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:28,800 Speaker 1: that we think is where the focus should be. Let's 1297 01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:32,439 Speaker 1: get their records into the database, uh and fix it 1298 01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:35,760 Speaker 1: before you have a conversation about expanding it, because you're 1299 01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:38,719 Speaker 1: just gonna have more bad background checks and that doesn't 1300 01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:42,639 Speaker 1: benefit anybody. Um. So, and there there are other issues 1301 01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:46,120 Speaker 1: with the legislation. We have concerns about we UM, but 1302 01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:48,640 Speaker 1: we think the focus be on fixing NIX and we 1303 01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:51,759 Speaker 1: the industry have been doing that. And then after sezzle 1304 01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:54,920 Speaker 1: In Springs sent in a corn and introduced the Fixed 1305 01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:59,240 Speaker 1: Knicks act UM named after our program that wasn't by accident. 1306 01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,200 Speaker 1: We advocated for that bill to pass and it did 1307 01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:06,480 Speaker 1: and signed by President Trump, which requires all federal agencies 1308 01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:10,040 Speaker 1: to submit records. UM. And we've been talking to Knicks 1309 01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:15,200 Speaker 1: and that's happening. UM. But even there are some some um, 1310 01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:17,439 Speaker 1: some parts of the federal government were dragging their feed 1311 01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,200 Speaker 1: and getting the records submitted. Maybe dragging if it's not 1312 01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:23,160 Speaker 1: the right word. They weren't as timely as we'd like. 1313 01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:26,479 Speaker 1: I think some of it is just again a resource issue. 1314 01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:31,800 Speaker 1: And then it gives grant money. It makes grant money 1315 01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:36,719 Speaker 1: available to the states, um to help them get their 1316 01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:42,000 Speaker 1: records into the system. Uh. There's UM a report I 1317 01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:45,439 Speaker 1: think we'll be coming out fairly soon about a year 1318 01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,760 Speaker 1: anniversary of the bill, to see what progress was made. 1319 01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:50,519 Speaker 1: But again, we we talked to Knicks on a regular 1320 01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:52,840 Speaker 1: basis and they say, yeah, the records are starting are 1321 01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:55,160 Speaker 1: coming in. That d O d S put the records 1322 01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:58,160 Speaker 1: in other federal agencies that had records that had not 1323 01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:01,880 Speaker 1: been reporting or now minting. So we're very proud of 1324 01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:05,720 Speaker 1: that legislation. You know, we advocated for it actually ended 1325 01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:10,080 Speaker 1: up passing with more Democrat co sponsors, the Republican GHO sponsors, 1326 01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:15,400 Speaker 1: and the lead Democrat co sponsor was Senator Murphy from Connecticut. 1327 01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:19,720 Speaker 1: Hardly a fan of the firearms industry, even though the 1328 01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:25,160 Speaker 1: industry was founded in Connecticut. Along history you created the 1329 01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:29,040 Speaker 1: Connecticut's economy and NSSF is still located there, as are 1330 01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:32,040 Speaker 1: some major manufacturers. But so we're very proud of that. 1331 01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:34,040 Speaker 1: And I think what that shows is, you know, there 1332 01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:36,920 Speaker 1: can be common ground on these issues, and we think 1333 01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:39,519 Speaker 1: this is a great example of that. As I said, 1334 01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:41,679 Speaker 1: there are other issues with the bill we have concerns about. 1335 01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:45,480 Speaker 1: But what would would universal background checks has normally understood 1336 01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:54,120 Speaker 1: with that prevent a person from inheriting you know, like 1337 01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:56,360 Speaker 1: I never bought I didn't buy a new firearm till 1338 01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,280 Speaker 1: as in my thirties, right like you would just like 1339 01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:01,120 Speaker 1: I just I for long time hume with my grand 1340 01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:05,519 Speaker 1: like had ownership of my grandfather's shotgun. Would would universal 1341 01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:08,519 Speaker 1: background checks, as a discuss, prevent the like you from 1342 01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:12,680 Speaker 1: getting a gun from your parents, no without doing a 1343 01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:18,000 Speaker 1: background check. So the bills allow for and it's changed 1344 01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:20,920 Speaker 1: over time. Is iterations have been introduced, like to allow 1345 01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:24,280 Speaker 1: a transfer within the family right father to son, grandfather 1346 01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:30,240 Speaker 1: to grandchild, um, would not require background check. UM. But 1347 01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:35,639 Speaker 1: there's so a couple of the issues with the ideas first, well, 1348 01:19:36,120 --> 01:19:39,880 Speaker 1: not necessarily in order, but one big issue is that 1349 01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:44,760 Speaker 1: universal background checks does it's not enforceable unless you have 1350 01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:49,200 Speaker 1: national registration, and the Department of Justice has acknowledged that 1351 01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:53,559 Speaker 1: in a written document. Um that it only works uh 1352 01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:57,439 Speaker 1: if there's national registration and that too many Second Amendment 1353 01:19:57,439 --> 01:20:04,520 Speaker 1: supporters isn't is just unacceptable and federal law doesn't allow registration. Um, 1354 01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:06,240 Speaker 1: so how do you you know, like so if you 1355 01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:08,479 Speaker 1: can enforce it, and what's you know you make there 1356 01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:13,519 Speaker 1: are what's the point? Right? Second is uh, you know, 1357 01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:17,120 Speaker 1: studies by the Department of Justice demonstrate that, you know, 1358 01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:22,280 Speaker 1: bad guys are not getting guns, you know, from licenses. 1359 01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:24,519 Speaker 1: They're stealing them, that's like the number one source, or 1360 01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:26,599 Speaker 1: they're just you know, trading them for drugs and things 1361 01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:30,720 Speaker 1: like that. Colorado passed universal background checks. There was this 1362 01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:35,120 Speaker 1: um what we call the myth con control groups were claiming, 1363 01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:40,120 Speaker 1: based on a very flawed, uh discredited study, that of 1364 01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:43,479 Speaker 1: all firems transfers are private party and with no background 1365 01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:46,920 Speaker 1: check and that's how bad guys are getting guns. Even 1366 01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,680 Speaker 1: the authors of that study said this is ignore it. 1367 01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:53,960 Speaker 1: It's no good. It's a bad study. Colorado passed universal 1368 01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:59,320 Speaker 1: background checks and saw not at increase about So this 1369 01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:01,719 Speaker 1: this idea of that you know, there are just guns 1370 01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:05,759 Speaker 1: going all over the place without background checks. Colorado demonstrates 1371 01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:08,200 Speaker 1: that that's not really the case. It used to be 1372 01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:11,080 Speaker 1: the gun show loop, the so called gun show loophole. 1373 01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:14,320 Speaker 1: The reality about gun shows is that, you know, the 1374 01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:19,080 Speaker 1: vast overwhelming majority of people that are selling firms at 1375 01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:23,080 Speaker 1: a gun show are licensed dealers. Background checks. Seventy three 1376 01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:26,560 Speaker 1: in the background check take place t J surveys of 1377 01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:29,800 Speaker 1: prison inmates incarcerated for firms related defenses. Where did you 1378 01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:32,880 Speaker 1: get the gun gun shows? Less than one percent? So 1379 01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:36,280 Speaker 1: that's just not really And then it became the internet loophole, 1380 01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:39,040 Speaker 1: idea that you can buy guns on the internet. Well, 1381 01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:42,400 Speaker 1: you can advertise guns on the internet, assuming Facebook or 1382 01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:45,000 Speaker 1: others will let you, which they don't. But you know, 1383 01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:48,560 Speaker 1: if your license dealer, it's still a face to face transaction. 1384 01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:51,800 Speaker 1: With seventy three in the background check, all it is is, 1385 01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, you may get pay with a credit card 1386 01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:56,920 Speaker 1: and then they're gonna get shipped to your local dealer, 1387 01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:00,360 Speaker 1: go through a gunbroker dot com. Gunbroker requires anybody using 1388 01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:03,519 Speaker 1: that service to that the guns transferred to inn FFL. 1389 01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:07,439 Speaker 1: That's that's their own policy and and a lot of 1390 01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:13,439 Speaker 1: those sites exist do that. So that's one problem. Another 1391 01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:16,800 Speaker 1: problem from the industry's point of view is you're you're 1392 01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:20,360 Speaker 1: asking these retailers to perform essentially a government service for 1393 01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:24,080 Speaker 1: the government, right and in some states that require background 1394 01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:27,800 Speaker 1: checks California, the dealer has no choice. They must do 1395 01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:30,519 Speaker 1: it right, and it caps the fee. And guess what, 1396 01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:33,240 Speaker 1: the fee is so low that they lose money on 1397 01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:36,559 Speaker 1: the transaction. They have got to spend time, energy, labor rights, 1398 01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:39,040 Speaker 1: a process of background check for a private party sale. 1399 01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:42,120 Speaker 1: Uh and and they end up losing money. But they 1400 01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:47,280 Speaker 1: have no choice in California. So that's that's unfair. Um. 1401 01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:50,840 Speaker 1: We've seen other states cap the fee. Um. And that's 1402 01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:52,840 Speaker 1: you know, if you're gonna let them, if they're gonna 1403 01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:54,639 Speaker 1: do this, that they should just be able to charge 1404 01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:56,720 Speaker 1: with the market will bear. I mean, it's America, you know, 1405 01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:01,559 Speaker 1: the government should be regulating that price. In our point 1406 01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:05,519 Speaker 1: of view, Another problem we see is that there's no 1407 01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:10,400 Speaker 1: liability protections for the retailer. So you know, Yanni comes 1408 01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:12,960 Speaker 1: in with the gun he wants to sell to you. Um, 1409 01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,080 Speaker 1: the dealer, I take it in I've got to log 1410 01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:18,719 Speaker 1: it into my acquisition record, right, I do the background 1411 01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:22,439 Speaker 1: check to you, you leave, and then there's an accident 1412 01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:24,680 Speaker 1: and then you sue me. So now I got to 1413 01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:27,000 Speaker 1: defend a lawsuit for a gun that I didn't sell 1414 01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:30,040 Speaker 1: from my inventory. And guess what my insurance company is 1415 01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,160 Speaker 1: gonna say, you didn't sell that gun from your inventory. 1416 01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:37,799 Speaker 1: There's no coverage. Or I make a mistake in the record, 1417 01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:42,880 Speaker 1: a t F comes in and finds a violation of 1418 01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:48,120 Speaker 1: my paperwork, I can now potentially lose my license because 1419 01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:52,240 Speaker 1: of course, have said a single violation of the record 1420 01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:54,840 Speaker 1: keeping requirements, a single willf of violation, you can lose 1421 01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:58,360 Speaker 1: your license. So here, I'm gonna lose my license for 1422 01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:00,920 Speaker 1: a record keeping error on a gun I didn't even 1423 01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:04,320 Speaker 1: tell my inventory. So here looks money on it, and 1424 01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:06,720 Speaker 1: you lost. So if it comes to another issue, I 1425 01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:09,960 Speaker 1: thank you for playing. So so again, let's look at 1426 01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:12,639 Speaker 1: the same as. So Larry is gonna be that FFL. 1427 01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:15,640 Speaker 1: He's gonna form that transfer and Johannest comes in with 1428 01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:18,800 Speaker 1: a gun. He wants to transfer it over. What kind 1429 01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:21,160 Speaker 1: of gun you're handing over? Honest, he ruined one of mine. 1430 01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:22,800 Speaker 1: Let's say he's trying to sell that. He's trying to 1431 01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:25,000 Speaker 1: sell the ruined gun for for twenty bucks in the 1432 01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:27,760 Speaker 1: case of a case of beer. So he turns that 1433 01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:30,680 Speaker 1: in the background check is run and uh, and it 1434 01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:33,280 Speaker 1: turns out that Larry's running the background checks onto both 1435 01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:35,880 Speaker 1: of you and you and you both pop as prohibited. 1436 01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:37,960 Speaker 1: Now what do I do? Now? What does he do? 1437 01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:41,000 Speaker 1: The dilemma of the double denial. So he's got he's 1438 01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:43,360 Speaker 1: got a he's got a basically a hot gun that 1439 01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:45,719 Speaker 1: he doesn't want to have, and he knows he can't 1440 01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:47,519 Speaker 1: hand it back to either one of you, can't transfer 1441 01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:49,680 Speaker 1: to you who intends to buy it because you're prohibited, 1442 01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:51,559 Speaker 1: and can't hand it back to you because it turns 1443 01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:55,960 Speaker 1: out you're prohibited. What does he do now? Citizens rest? 1444 01:24:56,280 --> 01:24:58,640 Speaker 1: So now he's got to go to court with with 1445 01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:00,160 Speaker 1: with a guy you know that a shape do you? 1446 01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:02,200 Speaker 1: And usually and he's just handed you one gun that 1447 01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:06,800 Speaker 1: he's he's the dealer that has um I have to 1448 01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:09,439 Speaker 1: go to court and file a lawsuits called an interplet 1449 01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:13,160 Speaker 1: and and give the gun to the court and say, look, 1450 01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:16,599 Speaker 1: I don't have ownership interests that are titling this. These 1451 01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:19,120 Speaker 1: two guys, you you court figure it out. I'm out 1452 01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:21,600 Speaker 1: of here, or you gotta go try to convince the 1453 01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:24,280 Speaker 1: local police department to take the rifle or whatever the 1454 01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:26,600 Speaker 1: firearm is. And what are they gonna say, Daddy, I 1455 01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,840 Speaker 1: don't know any to do with this? Not my problem, Yeah, 1456 01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:35,400 Speaker 1: because what are they going to do with it? You 1457 01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:38,439 Speaker 1: have to find somebody else to transfer the gun to. 1458 01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:42,559 Speaker 1: There's a lot of details about it today, Uh, because 1459 01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:45,240 Speaker 1: don't know what hadn't thought about it. It sounds great 1460 01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:47,519 Speaker 1: in theory, it really does. But once you start digging 1461 01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:49,559 Speaker 1: into it and then it starts to well, how do 1462 01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:51,960 Speaker 1: you how do you make this work? Yeah? My resistance 1463 01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:54,200 Speaker 1: to it, My resistance to it was based largely on 1464 01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:58,800 Speaker 1: how I know that. Um, how I know that like 1465 01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:03,280 Speaker 1: in my family, in my circle and my world, how 1466 01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:09,240 Speaker 1: like law abiding people, uh, you know, how we do 1467 01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:11,800 Speaker 1: our business, go about our business right, and so they 1468 01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:13,120 Speaker 1: look at I never looked at it from I never 1469 01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:15,519 Speaker 1: looked at it from dealer industry perspective. It was just 1470 01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:19,439 Speaker 1: looking at like just our common practices and ways in 1471 01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:25,040 Speaker 1: which they would be upset and kind of destroyed. But 1472 01:26:25,160 --> 01:26:27,840 Speaker 1: without you know, without really knowing the details of from 1473 01:26:27,880 --> 01:26:32,880 Speaker 1: the from the sales perspective. And again you do you 1474 01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:35,599 Speaker 1: do a private party background check. But if the background 1475 01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:40,360 Speaker 1: check database is inaccurate and incomplete, what have you accomplished? 1476 01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:43,400 Speaker 1: Why don't we work on getting the records into the 1477 01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:46,040 Speaker 1: system that should be there in the first place. Antana 1478 01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:48,120 Speaker 1: needs to change their law. I love Montana, but you 1479 01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:49,680 Speaker 1: know they got to change the law. And you know 1480 01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:53,920 Speaker 1: the and the what we found was I'll give you 1481 01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:57,519 Speaker 1: a real world example from our Fixed Next campaign. The 1482 01:26:57,680 --> 01:27:02,439 Speaker 1: Washington Navy are shooting right of place. Several people were killed. 1483 01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:07,839 Speaker 1: Turns out, as is often the case in these terrible events, 1484 01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:15,320 Speaker 1: the shooter was mentally ill, right, paranoid, schizophrenic. He um 1485 01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:20,160 Speaker 1: purchased a gun, a pump shotgun from a dealer in 1486 01:27:20,320 --> 01:27:23,960 Speaker 1: Virginia where he lived, past the background check. Um, and 1487 01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:26,680 Speaker 1: that's the firearm he used, and he killed a lot 1488 01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:30,400 Speaker 1: of people. Not long before he purchased the fire arm, 1489 01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:33,360 Speaker 1: he had been in Rhode Island on some work assignment 1490 01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:37,040 Speaker 1: and was like off his rocker, and the police get 1491 01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:39,800 Speaker 1: called and they take him to a hospital. He was 1492 01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:44,519 Speaker 1: not involuntarily committed in Rhode Island, but let's assume he 1493 01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:48,599 Speaker 1: had been involuntary committed. Now he's a prohibitive person. Well, 1494 01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:52,360 Speaker 1: at some point he gets out, it goes back to Virginia. 1495 01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:56,839 Speaker 1: Rhode Island at the time did not put the records 1496 01:27:56,920 --> 01:27:59,479 Speaker 1: into next so he would have gotten out of Rhode Island, 1497 01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:04,040 Speaker 1: back to Virginia, gone to the dealer, bought that shotgun, 1498 01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:06,280 Speaker 1: and passed the background check because Rhode Island didn't put 1499 01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:09,200 Speaker 1: the records in. We were working on Rhode Island to 1500 01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:10,720 Speaker 1: try to get them to change the law when the 1501 01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:14,960 Speaker 1: Washington Navy are shooting occurred and they weren't gonna do it. 1502 01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:18,800 Speaker 1: They were gonna study it, which is lobby code for 1503 01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:21,320 Speaker 1: like kill the bill. Right, they were gonna go study it. 1504 01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:24,200 Speaker 1: They weren't gonna pass the law to change it to 1505 01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:27,080 Speaker 1: require Rhodon for the records. We went back to Rhodeland 1506 01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:29,479 Speaker 1: and said, look what happened, and we walked him through 1507 01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:33,599 Speaker 1: this is exactly what we're talking about. Within twenty four hours, 1508 01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:35,960 Speaker 1: at passed the bill. Rhode Island now puts the records 1509 01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:41,280 Speaker 1: into the system. Industry did that. Nobody else. I'm really 1510 01:28:41,280 --> 01:28:45,000 Speaker 1: eager to get onto Sunday Hunting and lead AMO, but uh, 1511 01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:49,439 Speaker 1: stay on this for a second. Are there are their 1512 01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:52,920 Speaker 1: Second Amendment Advocate I'm not asked. I know the answer 1513 01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:55,000 Speaker 1: to this, but give me their perspective. There are Second 1514 01:28:55,040 --> 01:28:59,400 Speaker 1: amenber advocates though, who are who presumably are uneasy with 1515 01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:03,040 Speaker 1: Fixed Nicks. Yes, there there was. What what's that argument 1516 01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:05,080 Speaker 1: there that it's like a it's like a government imposition 1517 01:29:05,120 --> 01:29:11,320 Speaker 1: on your right. Well, there's a small segment um within 1518 01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:14,160 Speaker 1: the Second Amendment community doesn't think there should be background checks. 1519 01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:18,920 Speaker 1: We happen not to agree with that. The argument that 1520 01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:21,559 Speaker 1: we heard an opposition to the Fixed next legislation, or 1521 01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,519 Speaker 1: that we hear when work. The issue in the States is, 1522 01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:30,200 Speaker 1: you know, uh that the people who aren't prohibited their 1523 01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:32,040 Speaker 1: records are going to get into the system, and then 1524 01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:36,200 Speaker 1: people are going to be denied, um, the ability to 1525 01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:38,800 Speaker 1: purchase a fire when they're not a prohibited person. But 1526 01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:42,599 Speaker 1: there is an appeal process um that works very well. 1527 01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:46,840 Speaker 1: In fact, NIX is just substantially improved that they demonstrated 1528 01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:49,680 Speaker 1: for us when we went to visit them to the 1529 01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:54,519 Speaker 1: end of October. So and nothing in Fixed NIX is 1530 01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:56,920 Speaker 1: about expanding. In fact, we're very clear about that. We're 1531 01:29:56,920 --> 01:29:59,880 Speaker 1: not looking to expand who is prohibited. We just want 1532 01:29:59,880 --> 01:30:03,480 Speaker 1: the records of those that are under current law prohibited 1533 01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:07,439 Speaker 1: put into the system, so the dealer knows that when 1534 01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:10,839 Speaker 1: they transfer the firearm, they can rely upon the accuracy 1535 01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:13,960 Speaker 1: of the background check, so they're not selling a gun 1536 01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:17,720 Speaker 1: transferring a gun to a prohibited person. And either the 1537 01:30:17,720 --> 01:30:23,080 Speaker 1: fixed next legislation passed overwhelmingly seventy eight co sponsors in 1538 01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:25,920 Speaker 1: the Senate. You couldn't get seventy eight senators to sign 1539 01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:29,000 Speaker 1: a birthday card, and they all got on this bill. 1540 01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:31,680 Speaker 1: Those who are pro and those were against. Is the 1541 01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:37,360 Speaker 1: Wilderness Act? Uh yeah, after twenty years of trying to 1542 01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:41,000 Speaker 1: get it through and the one descending vote thought it 1543 01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:44,200 Speaker 1: wasn't didn't go far enough. Those days are gone, man, 1544 01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:47,080 Speaker 1: and get a bunch of people to something. Maybe some 1545 01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:50,840 Speaker 1: day will return to that, But I don't know. You know, 1546 01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:54,400 Speaker 1: a lot of non controversial legislation passes on unanimous consent. 1547 01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:57,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I think if if we tried to pass 1548 01:30:57,080 --> 01:31:00,320 Speaker 1: the Lands Package at the end of last Congress on 1549 01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:04,479 Speaker 1: unanimous consent, one one or two senators blocked unanimous consent 1550 01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:11,479 Speaker 1: and there was no time left unanimous um. It was 1551 01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:15,040 Speaker 1: Senator Lee and Senator Senator Lee, and there was a 1552 01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:17,320 Speaker 1: very heated exchange on the floor of the Senate between 1553 01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:25,160 Speaker 1: UH Senator Murkowski, Senator Gardner, uh and and UH Senator Cantwell, 1554 01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:29,439 Speaker 1: who were the primary backers of the legislation. And there's, 1555 01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:31,640 Speaker 1: as you know, lots and lots in that bill, not 1556 01:31:32,120 --> 01:31:36,479 Speaker 1: just the range bill, which is our primary focus. But 1557 01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:39,360 Speaker 1: they didn't like, uh, you know, a provision. He wanted 1558 01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:41,960 Speaker 1: the language change, and he blocked it because you can 1559 01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:44,160 Speaker 1: do that in the Senate and one person can stand 1560 01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:48,559 Speaker 1: up in blocking animous consent um. But so okay. So 1561 01:31:48,640 --> 01:31:51,160 Speaker 1: now they're doing the bill again the exact same language 1562 01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:55,440 Speaker 1: and running it through the you know, the parliamentary process, 1563 01:31:55,439 --> 01:31:57,920 Speaker 1: which takes a while. But he won't be you know, 1564 01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:02,280 Speaker 1: he may offer amendments and uh, you know those some 1565 01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:04,920 Speaker 1: mementos will either get voted on or not. Um if 1566 01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:08,240 Speaker 1: he offers him and uh, but he can't. I don't 1567 01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:10,320 Speaker 1: see how we can stop a bill passing the Senate. 1568 01:32:10,560 --> 01:32:13,479 Speaker 1: What happens on the House now that the Democrats are 1569 01:32:13,800 --> 01:32:16,960 Speaker 1: are in control, whether we'll move in house natural resources 1570 01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:19,960 Speaker 1: remains to be seen. I hope it will because Chairman 1571 01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:23,360 Speaker 1: Garhovo when he was ranking in the last Congress support 1572 01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:27,360 Speaker 1: of the package. So hopefully, UM, that hasn't changed. We'll 1573 01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:34,080 Speaker 1: see hopefully we'll see Sunday hunt really important. Yeah. I 1574 01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:39,800 Speaker 1: was glad to see um there were allies on this 1575 01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:45,200 Speaker 1: issue because it drives me crazy. And I but I 1576 01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:47,720 Speaker 1: see that you guys have like an industry perspective where 1577 01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:50,519 Speaker 1: I see that you you frame it around some economic factors. 1578 01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:54,799 Speaker 1: That's that's how we roll. I just frame it around 1579 01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:57,479 Speaker 1: like that. I just frame it around what I think, 1580 01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:04,639 Speaker 1: you know, just my vision of America when I at 1581 01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:06,800 Speaker 1: that if you can on a Sunday, you should be 1582 01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:09,120 Speaker 1: able to go home. I just pictured that like the 1583 01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:15,360 Speaker 1: fact that there are states where someone can't opt, where 1584 01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:17,320 Speaker 1: someone can't opt to hunt. On the side, you only 1585 01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:21,720 Speaker 1: got screwed by Sunday hunting laws recently over the uh 1586 01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:25,640 Speaker 1: the Christmas and New Year holiday. I was in North Carolina, 1587 01:33:26,479 --> 01:33:29,240 Speaker 1: and I mean I was halfway into the truck and 1588 01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:32,040 Speaker 1: uh realize, I'm like, I'm better check on that sure 1589 01:33:32,160 --> 01:33:36,280 Speaker 1: enough privately and only. Yeah. Yeah, it's just it's the 1590 01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:38,439 Speaker 1: same way I live in Virginia, saying private land only 1591 01:33:38,439 --> 01:33:43,760 Speaker 1: on Sundays. So that launched the Sunday Hunting Initiative. We 1592 01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:48,160 Speaker 1: have partners in Corrational Sportsman's Foundation, their National Assembly of 1593 01:33:48,200 --> 01:33:53,080 Speaker 1: Sportsmen's Caucuses and r A s c I. Um, you know, 1594 01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:58,000 Speaker 1: or it's really the sort of team and most people 1595 01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:01,840 Speaker 1: in the country have no idea that there's these old 1596 01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:06,240 Speaker 1: colonial blue laws. Uh. And it was thirteen states. We've 1597 01:34:06,280 --> 01:34:08,439 Speaker 1: made progress, but all along the up and down the 1598 01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:13,240 Speaker 1: East coast, the original colonies. Basically, Um, there's no science 1599 01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:17,160 Speaker 1: behind it. You know, it's just was a vestige of 1600 01:34:17,200 --> 01:34:19,840 Speaker 1: colonial law. But but it was it was I have 1601 01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:23,479 Speaker 1: to um has to student. That had to do with 1602 01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:27,439 Speaker 1: like enforcing church attendance. Uh. It was religious based, you know, 1603 01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:30,960 Speaker 1: no alcohol, no hunting on Sundays, and so yeah, that's 1604 01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:33,800 Speaker 1: why it's interesting to see like very like to see 1605 01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:39,519 Speaker 1: deeply conservative leaning organizations in opposition to Sunday hunting because 1606 01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:41,240 Speaker 1: you feel like it would put them up against the 1607 01:34:41,280 --> 01:34:45,200 Speaker 1: thing where they're where they're like up against a sort 1608 01:34:45,200 --> 01:34:49,200 Speaker 1: of religious ruling. So every it's interesting. Um, and we 1609 01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:52,840 Speaker 1: made great progress on our Sunday hunting and it's really 1610 01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:58,439 Speaker 1: important because in those states, you know, effectively for many hunters, 1611 01:34:58,439 --> 01:35:01,640 Speaker 1: you're doubling the hunting season. If you're you're working on 1612 01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:04,879 Speaker 1: you work on Monday, Friday, Saturday. You gotta take Johnny 1613 01:35:04,920 --> 01:35:07,360 Speaker 1: to soccer, the game or whatever. You got the honey 1614 01:35:07,360 --> 01:35:10,160 Speaker 1: do list, you gotta you only have Sunday. You can't 1615 01:35:10,200 --> 01:35:12,479 Speaker 1: haunt on Sunday, so you don't hunt, and then you 1616 01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:14,839 Speaker 1: don't take Johnny hunting and you don't pass down the tradition. 1617 01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:19,240 Speaker 1: Now something like Pennsylvania, huge number of hunting licenses. Uh, 1618 01:35:19,320 --> 01:35:23,240 Speaker 1: there's no Sunday hunting in Pennsylvania. So you know, we 1619 01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:28,200 Speaker 1: started with Virginia, then West Virginia and Maryland and North Carolina, 1620 01:35:28,280 --> 01:35:30,800 Speaker 1: South Carolina. We actually got a build out a committee 1621 01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:34,679 Speaker 1: for the first time in the Pennsylvania Senate eight three 1622 01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:40,080 Speaker 1: yesterday yesterday. Is that's an enormous step forward for now. 1623 01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:44,400 Speaker 1: Is the opposition the religious community or the interesting thing 1624 01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:48,479 Speaker 1: is it is, uh the opposition varies from state to state. 1625 01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:53,400 Speaker 1: In Pennsylvania, the primary opposition is the Farm Bureau. In 1626 01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:58,280 Speaker 1: North Carolina it was the Christian right. I can't tell 1627 01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:00,519 Speaker 1: you why, they just know we don't do that in 1628 01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:03,360 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania just because we don't, just because we don't know, 1629 01:36:03,439 --> 01:36:09,080 Speaker 1: we don't. Uh So in Maine. Uh, oddly enough, one 1630 01:36:09,120 --> 01:36:12,920 Speaker 1: of the major forces in opposition is the guides. They 1631 01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:14,880 Speaker 1: don't want to work on Sunday. You don't have to 1632 01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:16,920 Speaker 1: work on Sunday. Don't was making you work on Sunday. 1633 01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. So the farm Bureau that I don't 1634 01:36:20,200 --> 01:36:28,080 Speaker 1: want the In Pactsylvania, the farm Bureau would say, uh, 1635 01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:32,240 Speaker 1: you know, uh, the farmers don't want to be disturbed 1636 01:36:32,240 --> 01:36:34,719 Speaker 1: on Sunday because if you know, they don't want people 1637 01:36:34,760 --> 01:36:37,599 Speaker 1: coming on the land on Sunday. Or you know, if 1638 01:36:37,640 --> 01:36:41,040 Speaker 1: they shoot the deer one piece of property and it 1639 01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:43,320 Speaker 1: goes onto the farmer's property, they gotta they gotta get 1640 01:36:43,320 --> 01:36:49,320 Speaker 1: permission to go retrieve the deer. Right. So that but um, 1641 01:36:49,360 --> 01:36:51,479 Speaker 1: but it really wasn't a persuasive argument. We said we'll 1642 01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:54,479 Speaker 1: put well, we'll pay for signs. Do you can put 1643 01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:57,080 Speaker 1: up saying you know, no hunting. You know you can 1644 01:36:57,080 --> 01:37:00,080 Speaker 1: post no hunting on Sundays and you know, so a 1645 01:37:00,160 --> 01:37:02,720 Speaker 1: lot of times it's okay, private land, We'll just do 1646 01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:05,559 Speaker 1: private land to take whatever we can get or public land. 1647 01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:09,280 Speaker 1: And we got to change in North Carolina, you know, 1648 01:37:10,120 --> 01:37:13,640 Speaker 1: private land because the party argument we would encounter it 1649 01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:18,400 Speaker 1: be from like hikers or a questrian people like to 1650 01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:20,800 Speaker 1: ride their horses in public. You know, say, well, you 1651 01:37:20,840 --> 01:37:23,719 Speaker 1: know we don't want to get you know, accidentally shot 1652 01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:25,920 Speaker 1: by a hunter. You know, Well, it doesn't happen on 1653 01:37:26,320 --> 01:37:29,960 Speaker 1: you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. What makes 1654 01:37:29,960 --> 01:37:32,320 Speaker 1: you think it's gonna happen on Sunday. Well, that's our day. 1655 01:37:32,360 --> 01:37:35,280 Speaker 1: We should be our day. Um. So we you know, 1656 01:37:35,280 --> 01:37:37,920 Speaker 1: we sort of whatever we can get, you know, and 1657 01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:40,280 Speaker 1: then just go back and try again from more later. 1658 01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:43,840 Speaker 1: But we made great progress. Um. You know, yesterday's vote 1659 01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:46,800 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania was it was an enormous step forward for us. 1660 01:37:46,960 --> 01:37:49,760 Speaker 1: Explain what happened there from one of our one of 1661 01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:53,200 Speaker 1: our guys, Brodie Henderson, he's Pennsylvania. We've got a couple 1662 01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:55,599 Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania gays we worked with. We talked about this 1663 01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:58,160 Speaker 1: all the time. So we were able finally to get 1664 01:37:58,200 --> 01:38:00,080 Speaker 1: a bill out a committee in the Senate eight to 1665 01:38:00,200 --> 01:38:02,920 Speaker 1: three in favor of, you know, giving the State Fishing 1666 01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:08,519 Speaker 1: Game Agency the authority will permit Sunday hunting, doesn't require 1667 01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:14,160 Speaker 1: I mean, the Commission wants it. They support it. They 1668 01:38:14,200 --> 01:38:16,120 Speaker 1: publicly come out and said they support it. So but 1669 01:38:16,400 --> 01:38:18,519 Speaker 1: to your earlier point, so one of the things we 1670 01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:21,320 Speaker 1: did his industry is to try to say, you know, 1671 01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:25,640 Speaker 1: that's access we want to pass on the tradition. You know, 1672 01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:27,880 Speaker 1: you can do all these other things on Sunday. You'll 1673 01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:30,840 Speaker 1: play golf, you can fish. You know, golf, by the way, 1674 01:38:30,920 --> 01:38:33,080 Speaker 1: is a four letter word. Those are not the birdies 1675 01:38:33,160 --> 01:38:36,000 Speaker 1: we think you should be shooting. You can go shooting, 1676 01:38:37,160 --> 01:38:40,120 Speaker 1: but you can't hunt. So but then part of what 1677 01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:43,160 Speaker 1: we did was to show the economic impact allowing Sunday 1678 01:38:43,200 --> 01:38:47,400 Speaker 1: hunting with and it's significant. Right, So you look at 1679 01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:51,880 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and so what happens is if you're in New York, 1680 01:38:52,640 --> 01:38:54,519 Speaker 1: you won't go on a hunting trip on a weekend 1681 01:38:55,240 --> 01:38:57,760 Speaker 1: to Pennsylvania because you can only hunt on Saturday. Right, 1682 01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:02,280 Speaker 1: So Pennsylvania says that kind of an opportunity. New York 1683 01:39:02,360 --> 01:39:04,720 Speaker 1: ust Averigh frictions so high used averished factions and they've 1684 01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:07,720 Speaker 1: been shipped away at over time about I don't know, 1685 01:39:07,760 --> 01:39:10,960 Speaker 1: maybe ten years ago, we put a real focus on 1686 01:39:11,640 --> 01:39:13,680 Speaker 1: like how can we really what's the way we can 1687 01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:18,519 Speaker 1: really drive the needle on hunting and said it's it's changing, 1688 01:39:18,720 --> 01:39:21,360 Speaker 1: sunny honey laws on the East coast. And you know, 1689 01:39:21,400 --> 01:39:25,479 Speaker 1: we're making progress, not easy. We're still fighting into Maryland 1690 01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:28,320 Speaker 1: right now. Maryland is there are some counties and so 1691 01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:30,479 Speaker 1: now there's the push to finish up all the rest 1692 01:39:30,520 --> 01:39:32,599 Speaker 1: of the counties, to let the counties go, and it's 1693 01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:34,840 Speaker 1: it's that progression here and there. So used to be 1694 01:39:34,840 --> 01:39:36,680 Speaker 1: Maryland wouldn't even touch it, and now they were in 1695 01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:38,920 Speaker 1: county by county. We're pushing a little bit more and 1696 01:39:38,920 --> 01:39:40,960 Speaker 1: more as well. I mean they're pushing a part of 1697 01:39:40,960 --> 01:39:43,440 Speaker 1: that same Families a Field program. You're pushing the mentorship 1698 01:39:43,479 --> 01:39:45,880 Speaker 1: bills to try and allow so that way you can 1699 01:39:45,960 --> 01:39:48,599 Speaker 1: take your ten year old out hunting. Where you can 1700 01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:50,640 Speaker 1: take someone even an adult who wants to get out 1701 01:39:50,640 --> 01:39:52,200 Speaker 1: and hunt the first time, and they don't have to buy. 1702 01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:54,720 Speaker 1: It's kind of a try before you buy program. You 1703 01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:56,960 Speaker 1: can buy a license at a reduced rate as long 1704 01:39:57,000 --> 01:39:58,880 Speaker 1: as you're going out with someone who's gonna mentor you 1705 01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:01,479 Speaker 1: through that process. We did that in Michigan this fast 1706 01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:04,000 Speaker 1: spring and it was great. It was real nice. So 1707 01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:07,120 Speaker 1: we had some guys never been had never been hunting. 1708 01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:13,559 Speaker 1: We're curious about it, um, you know, for for a 1709 01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:16,800 Speaker 1: bunch of reasons. It was they lived in California. It 1710 01:40:16,840 --> 01:40:18,519 Speaker 1: was like a bunch of reasons that would have been 1711 01:40:18,720 --> 01:40:22,519 Speaker 1: hard for them to get through, just owners for them 1712 01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:24,439 Speaker 1: to like, hey, let's go hunting turkeys all of a 1713 01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:27,759 Speaker 1: sudden and then do hunter safety. But in this case, 1714 01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:30,320 Speaker 1: with a mentor program, you're able to you know, you're 1715 01:40:30,520 --> 01:40:34,479 Speaker 1: with them, you're physically next to each other, able to 1716 01:40:34,479 --> 01:40:38,240 Speaker 1: take them out on the first hunt, and which winds 1717 01:40:38,320 --> 01:40:41,880 Speaker 1: up being and that kind of relationship. I feel that 1718 01:40:41,880 --> 01:40:45,240 Speaker 1: that mentords standing next to each other relationship, its being 1719 01:40:45,280 --> 01:40:50,080 Speaker 1: like very educational. It's around even you know, around safety issues. 1720 01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:52,280 Speaker 1: In fact, I think if you're gonna have someone who 1721 01:40:52,320 --> 01:40:57,559 Speaker 1: if you're gonna have an experienced hunter with an inexperienced hunter, 1722 01:40:57,720 --> 01:41:01,640 Speaker 1: I feel that that time together is as instructive or 1723 01:41:01,680 --> 01:41:05,280 Speaker 1: probably more instructive at that phase and their journey than 1724 01:41:06,360 --> 01:41:10,080 Speaker 1: sitting through like right class, the incubation of a new hunter. 1725 01:41:10,200 --> 01:41:12,960 Speaker 1: You're you're teaching them the traditions, you're teaching them the rules, 1726 01:41:13,000 --> 01:41:15,040 Speaker 1: the left and right. So this is where you step, 1727 01:41:15,080 --> 01:41:16,439 Speaker 1: this is where you don't step. This is how you 1728 01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:18,439 Speaker 1: carry your rifle. This is when you load your rifle. 1729 01:41:18,760 --> 01:41:20,680 Speaker 1: This is when you don't have your rifle loaded. Those 1730 01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:22,400 Speaker 1: are all the things that we were we were taught 1731 01:41:22,400 --> 01:41:24,240 Speaker 1: by our folks when we don't want out and learned 1732 01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:26,479 Speaker 1: from the folks you taught us and and there's a 1733 01:41:26,479 --> 01:41:27,880 Speaker 1: little bit of a gap. We want to we want 1734 01:41:27,880 --> 01:41:30,120 Speaker 1: to kind of close. I mean, you know, someone's not 1735 01:41:30,120 --> 01:41:32,599 Speaker 1: gonna wake up one morning and say I think I'll 1736 01:41:32,840 --> 01:41:36,000 Speaker 1: try hunting. You wouldn't know the first thing right, how 1737 01:41:36,040 --> 01:41:37,840 Speaker 1: to get started. So people do do that and they 1738 01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:44,320 Speaker 1: struggle successful, but mostly you know that's the exception, right, 1739 01:41:44,320 --> 01:41:48,680 Speaker 1: people just say I don't play golf because I can 1740 01:41:48,720 --> 01:41:50,920 Speaker 1: go get a lesson right down the street. So mentoring 1741 01:41:51,160 --> 01:41:55,280 Speaker 1: is critical to passing the tradition and the heritage on. Yeah, 1742 01:41:55,320 --> 01:41:57,160 Speaker 1: I like, I like the program, and I think, you know, 1743 01:41:57,400 --> 01:41:59,800 Speaker 1: I notice to talk about And in this case, there 1744 01:41:59,840 --> 01:42:02,920 Speaker 1: was any age big factor one year. These guys were 1745 01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:06,120 Speaker 1: you know, guys, you can do it some some states 1746 01:42:06,240 --> 01:42:08,479 Speaker 1: gold to two years. You could do it too before 1747 01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:14,400 Speaker 1: you had to show up with the problem Hunter. Yes, 1748 01:42:14,760 --> 01:42:17,320 Speaker 1: I don't have the numbers in front of me. But um. 1749 01:42:17,360 --> 01:42:19,720 Speaker 1: There was a press conference at SACO about Families of 1750 01:42:19,840 --> 01:42:23,400 Speaker 1: Field and reached a milestone and a number of apprentice 1751 01:42:23,439 --> 01:42:28,560 Speaker 1: licenses and uh it's been very successful. Uh and the 1752 01:42:28,640 --> 01:42:31,440 Speaker 1: work continues to and there was a lot of resistance 1753 01:42:31,479 --> 01:42:36,960 Speaker 1: from Hunter ed guys um to the Families of Field effort. 1754 01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:40,080 Speaker 1: Let's just oh yeah, but but it's a collaborative effort, 1755 01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:42,759 Speaker 1: and it's the seffest part of its Sportsman's Alliance, National 1756 01:42:42,760 --> 01:42:48,000 Speaker 1: Wild Turkey Federation and the Congressional Sportsman's Foundation and their 1757 01:42:48,600 --> 01:42:53,720 Speaker 1: National Assembly Sportsman's Caucuses, and the work continues. My resistance 1758 01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:56,720 Speaker 1: to it was based on bitterness because when I was 1759 01:42:56,720 --> 01:42:59,840 Speaker 1: a kid had in Michigan. In Michigan, when I was 1760 01:43:00,000 --> 01:43:02,439 Speaker 1: if you had four teen, yeah, my dad did pay 1761 01:43:02,439 --> 01:43:04,120 Speaker 1: a whole lot of attention to that. But you're supposed 1762 01:43:04,160 --> 01:43:05,720 Speaker 1: to be fourteen to rifle hunt deer, And all of 1763 01:43:05,760 --> 01:43:08,040 Speaker 1: a sudden, I'm talking to buddies of mind from back 1764 01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:10,479 Speaker 1: home and they're out there with their ten and eleven 1765 01:43:10,560 --> 01:43:12,559 Speaker 1: year old I'm like, dude, what do you do. You're 1766 01:43:12,560 --> 01:43:16,400 Speaker 1: supposed to wait forever, you know, I mean in your 1767 01:43:16,439 --> 01:43:19,680 Speaker 1: teens and still watching your days, watching your dad. What 1768 01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:23,479 Speaker 1: really but drove the families of field was you know, 1769 01:43:23,560 --> 01:43:26,200 Speaker 1: studies coming out that showed that, you know, if you 1770 01:43:26,280 --> 01:43:30,320 Speaker 1: did not get a young person in the field by 1771 01:43:30,320 --> 01:43:33,679 Speaker 1: a certain age, you lost them. Right They're they're playing 1772 01:43:33,800 --> 01:43:35,800 Speaker 1: video games, they're getting you know, their their time is 1773 01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:40,000 Speaker 1: occupied by other things, and it's very hard to get them, 1774 01:43:40,040 --> 01:43:42,240 Speaker 1: you know, the start when their sixteen seventeen, right that 1775 01:43:42,560 --> 01:43:47,559 Speaker 1: you gotta engage them earlier, otherwise they're you know, you're 1776 01:43:47,560 --> 01:43:49,840 Speaker 1: not gonna be able to do. There's two bunch competition 1777 01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:54,040 Speaker 1: out there and it's it's proven to be pretty successful. 1778 01:43:54,439 --> 01:44:00,760 Speaker 1: Where where I live. My boy can no boy. My 1779 01:44:00,800 --> 01:44:04,200 Speaker 1: boy am a girl and my other boy can hunt 1780 01:44:04,200 --> 01:44:07,759 Speaker 1: with me when they're ten and then hunt unaccompanied after 1781 01:44:07,800 --> 01:44:11,800 Speaker 1: they do hunters safe once or so. He's kind of 1782 01:44:11,840 --> 01:44:14,000 Speaker 1: in the days man, and there's a youth there's a 1783 01:44:14,040 --> 01:44:16,680 Speaker 1: youth season there for deer, youth season for waterfowl. So 1784 01:44:16,760 --> 01:44:20,320 Speaker 1: that's gonna be a lot of fun. Uh So we 1785 01:44:20,360 --> 01:44:23,240 Speaker 1: did Sunday hunting. We jumped ahead of ourselves and got 1786 01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:29,479 Speaker 1: into some youth stuff. Let ammo. Yeah, big, big challenge, 1787 01:44:29,520 --> 01:44:32,680 Speaker 1: but some would say it's the biggest threat to the 1788 01:44:32,720 --> 01:44:37,320 Speaker 1: industry banning lead ammunition like we saw in California. So 1789 01:44:37,439 --> 01:44:40,040 Speaker 1: our you know, our view on on the issue is 1790 01:44:40,040 --> 01:44:45,760 Speaker 1: is this. You mentioned the point earlier. You manage wildlife populations, 1791 01:44:46,400 --> 01:44:49,400 Speaker 1: you don't manage to prevent harm to individual animals. Because 1792 01:44:49,400 --> 01:44:53,240 Speaker 1: if wildlife management becomes about preventing harm to individual animals, 1793 01:44:53,400 --> 01:44:56,360 Speaker 1: guess what you just made the argument for banning hunting 1794 01:44:56,560 --> 01:45:01,439 Speaker 1: right and fences and glass windows. So so our view 1795 01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:06,639 Speaker 1: is that decisions on this issue should be evidence based, 1796 01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:11,839 Speaker 1: based on science that's clear that shows that there's an 1797 01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:17,080 Speaker 1: adverse population impact, and then if that's the case, the 1798 01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:19,760 Speaker 1: Phish and Game Agency should look at what are the 1799 01:45:19,800 --> 01:45:25,000 Speaker 1: options available to address the problem to to turn it around, 1800 01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:30,799 Speaker 1: and that may or may not include banning ammunition certain 1801 01:45:30,800 --> 01:45:33,599 Speaker 1: types of ammunition, but you should look at what are 1802 01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:37,080 Speaker 1: the full spectrum of of things you can do. And 1803 01:45:37,120 --> 01:45:40,000 Speaker 1: then we think a factor and the decision should be 1804 01:45:40,080 --> 01:45:44,120 Speaker 1: what is the you know, what is effective and least 1805 01:45:44,160 --> 01:45:47,200 Speaker 1: costly to the hunter, because if you know increase cost, 1806 01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:50,200 Speaker 1: you know, just basic economics, right, you're you're gonna have 1807 01:45:50,280 --> 01:45:53,719 Speaker 1: less participation that may or may not result in banning 1808 01:45:54,120 --> 01:45:57,760 Speaker 1: lead ammunition in an area. And we think the the 1809 01:45:57,840 --> 01:46:02,600 Speaker 1: solution should be is local lost is necessary? Um, you know, 1810 01:46:02,600 --> 01:46:05,080 Speaker 1: if you've got a problem in a particular localized area, 1811 01:46:05,360 --> 01:46:07,960 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean you have to adopt the statewide band. 1812 01:46:08,040 --> 01:46:12,080 Speaker 1: California started in the Condor region and then expanded statewide. 1813 01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:17,360 Speaker 1: We think the question that uh a good part of 1814 01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:20,080 Speaker 1: the push for banning lead ammunition comes from the anti 1815 01:46:20,160 --> 01:46:23,840 Speaker 1: hunting groups. I mean, when the Humane Society of the 1816 01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:28,080 Speaker 1: United States, UM, you know, support spanning lead ammunition and 1817 01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:30,439 Speaker 1: wants people to hunt with copper ammunition, I mean, are 1818 01:46:30,479 --> 01:46:33,960 Speaker 1: you serious. I mean, now hs US is okay with 1819 01:46:34,040 --> 01:46:36,639 Speaker 1: hunting as long as you're not using lead ammunition. Let's 1820 01:46:36,720 --> 01:46:42,120 Speaker 1: laughable on its face. So if there's a part and 1821 01:46:42,360 --> 01:46:46,840 Speaker 1: we don't see population impacts, right, I mean, even with 1822 01:46:46,840 --> 01:46:49,960 Speaker 1: the condor, it's clear that lead. They were getting lead 1823 01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:52,679 Speaker 1: from other sources, paint chips on on the water towers. 1824 01:46:53,720 --> 01:46:57,519 Speaker 1: And the core of the basis for the law in 1825 01:46:57,640 --> 01:47:03,519 Speaker 1: California was um a study that is totally flawed and 1826 01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:07,519 Speaker 1: not credible that was pushed by the folks out there 1827 01:47:08,160 --> 01:47:11,840 Speaker 1: too became the basis for why they banned lead ammunition 1828 01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:14,880 Speaker 1: from hunting in the entire state. And we said, uh, look, 1829 01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:17,719 Speaker 1: if you do this, here's the consequences. You're gonna people 1830 01:47:17,720 --> 01:47:20,000 Speaker 1: are gonna hunt less, and they're gonna hunt outside the state. 1831 01:47:20,120 --> 01:47:23,280 Speaker 1: And end there is not enough lead ammunition or non 1832 01:47:23,360 --> 01:47:26,599 Speaker 1: let ammunition produced in the country to meet the demand 1833 01:47:26,600 --> 01:47:30,280 Speaker 1: of hunters in California. So the industry makes non lead 1834 01:47:30,320 --> 01:47:36,439 Speaker 1: ammunition alternative ammunition. In response, to consumer demand, and that 1835 01:47:36,479 --> 01:47:39,040 Speaker 1: demand amounts to less than one percent of the entire 1836 01:47:39,040 --> 01:47:42,280 Speaker 1: ammunition market. Is that right? Yes? What if I when 1837 01:47:42,320 --> 01:47:47,040 Speaker 1: you break it down to the center fire, so nine 1838 01:47:48,960 --> 01:47:57,120 Speaker 1: of ammunition is um metallic lead ammunition, five is alternative ammunition. 1839 01:47:57,360 --> 01:48:00,719 Speaker 1: Four of the five percent of shot hill. The rest 1840 01:48:01,240 --> 01:48:06,080 Speaker 1: is uh, you know, for it's some of its frangible 1841 01:48:06,120 --> 01:48:09,919 Speaker 1: ammunition a small part. But that's that's how much demander 1842 01:48:10,000 --> 01:48:13,920 Speaker 1: is for non let ammunition. And our view is, look, 1843 01:48:14,479 --> 01:48:18,519 Speaker 1: if hunters want to use alternative ammunition, that should be 1844 01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:23,680 Speaker 1: their choice, right, I mean, and the initial will make 1845 01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:26,559 Speaker 1: it in response to consumer demand, like any any other product. 1846 01:48:26,680 --> 01:48:28,519 Speaker 1: That's the thing that's like an annoyance I find in 1847 01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:35,040 Speaker 1: this debate is if people are it's becomes so contentious 1848 01:48:35,560 --> 01:48:38,759 Speaker 1: that if people talk about how they use monolithic bullets 1849 01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:41,200 Speaker 1: or use copper, some people feel that just a simple 1850 01:48:41,240 --> 01:48:45,800 Speaker 1: fact of you using it as condemnation of lead, even 1851 01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:49,200 Speaker 1: though I first became introduced to it, certainly by people 1852 01:48:49,200 --> 01:48:53,760 Speaker 1: who are just motivated by performance. Right. But it's like, 1853 01:48:54,160 --> 01:48:57,280 Speaker 1: but sometimes people jump on you, you know, if you 1854 01:48:57,400 --> 01:49:00,240 Speaker 1: use solid copper, they'll act like somehow you don't support lead, 1855 01:49:00,280 --> 01:49:01,400 Speaker 1: And I think it's just like one of those things 1856 01:49:01,400 --> 01:49:03,120 Speaker 1: that it's just a sensitive world because we're all like 1857 01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:07,760 Speaker 1: really embroiled and it's a passion it's a passion based thing, 1858 01:49:07,840 --> 01:49:10,760 Speaker 1: and there's sensitivities afloat, But it just winds up being 1859 01:49:10,760 --> 01:49:15,320 Speaker 1: like a really interesting conversation of individual like to say, 1860 01:49:15,360 --> 01:49:22,280 Speaker 1: like individually, for whatever reason, performance um concerns, and they 1861 01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:26,000 Speaker 1: don't seem to be the people have concerns about ingesting 1862 01:49:26,280 --> 01:49:32,719 Speaker 1: bullet lead absent any documentation that hunters have elevated lead 1863 01:49:32,760 --> 01:49:36,920 Speaker 1: levels doesn't exist. In fact, quite the contrary, right, But regardless, 1864 01:49:36,920 --> 01:49:39,800 Speaker 1: like you might whatever reason, like someone might decide to 1865 01:49:39,880 --> 01:49:43,280 Speaker 1: do it. And I think that again, industry will match 1866 01:49:43,360 --> 01:49:47,120 Speaker 1: up with people's choices, but there's there's needs to be 1867 01:49:47,200 --> 01:49:49,439 Speaker 1: ability to say, like, this is what I personally choose. 1868 01:49:49,880 --> 01:49:53,120 Speaker 1: Does that mean that I want to legislate it? Does 1869 01:49:53,520 --> 01:49:55,240 Speaker 1: that mean I want to legislate it and make it 1870 01:49:55,320 --> 01:49:58,840 Speaker 1: mandatory for all people to conform to the decisions that 1871 01:49:59,200 --> 01:50:02,360 Speaker 1: i've personally may And we think it's the hunter's choice 1872 01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:06,920 Speaker 1: if they want to use that product for performance or 1873 01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:12,400 Speaker 1: because they think it's more environmentally sensitive. You know, the 1874 01:50:11,400 --> 01:50:15,200 Speaker 1: more the industry will respond to consumer demand and more 1875 01:50:15,240 --> 01:50:18,920 Speaker 1: will be produced. Those just are the facts that it's 1876 01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:23,120 Speaker 1: less than one percent. We don't think it's really you know, 1877 01:50:23,160 --> 01:50:25,920 Speaker 1: this should be a decision for the state fish and 1878 01:50:25,960 --> 01:50:28,320 Speaker 1: game agencies. They're the professionals, they're the ones with the 1879 01:50:28,360 --> 01:50:31,479 Speaker 1: expertise and wildlife management. We don't think it should be 1880 01:50:31,520 --> 01:50:35,840 Speaker 1: regulated by legislature because other you know, that's you know, 1881 01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:39,800 Speaker 1: that's why the state agencies exist. Although I mean if 1882 01:50:39,800 --> 01:50:42,400 Speaker 1: you had an out of control state agency, maybe you 1883 01:50:42,439 --> 01:50:46,599 Speaker 1: would need legislation, uh, if they weren't making a science, 1884 01:50:46,760 --> 01:50:52,760 Speaker 1: science based decision. But you know, so it's you manage populations. 1885 01:50:52,920 --> 01:50:56,040 Speaker 1: If there's a population impact, and you determine it's coming 1886 01:50:56,200 --> 01:50:59,360 Speaker 1: you know, from lead, I mean a's and what are 1887 01:50:59,360 --> 01:51:03,599 Speaker 1: the options? So for example dove you know, if you 1888 01:51:03,720 --> 01:51:08,680 Speaker 1: ban um lead shot for dove hunting, I mean, it 1889 01:51:08,720 --> 01:51:12,240 Speaker 1: makes dove hunting really expensive, right, and so what happened? 1890 01:51:12,240 --> 01:51:15,120 Speaker 1: What would happen to dove hunting? Here we go down precipitously. 1891 01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:20,559 Speaker 1: Do you need to ban lead for you know, dove hunting? Well, 1892 01:51:20,720 --> 01:51:25,800 Speaker 1: I don't see any evidence of adverse population impacts on doves. 1893 01:51:25,800 --> 01:51:28,360 Speaker 1: I mean people have been shooting doves in Argentina for example, 1894 01:51:29,320 --> 01:51:33,400 Speaker 1: like crazy amounts of lead shot and there there's no 1895 01:51:33,439 --> 01:51:36,320 Speaker 1: shortage of doves in Argentina, for example, both Harvested Game 1896 01:51:36,400 --> 01:51:41,040 Speaker 1: Animal America and I've talked to, you know, the former 1897 01:51:41,400 --> 01:51:45,839 Speaker 1: director of Fish and Wildlife, like because Missouri, for example, 1898 01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:50,360 Speaker 1: was looking at, you know, banning the use of lead 1899 01:51:50,360 --> 01:51:53,320 Speaker 1: shot for dove hunting. And you know, are there other 1900 01:51:54,360 --> 01:51:56,960 Speaker 1: things you can do short of banning the product that 1901 01:51:57,000 --> 01:51:59,680 Speaker 1: would adequately address the problem. And one of the things 1902 01:51:59,680 --> 01:52:01,920 Speaker 1: you can do till the soil, right, turn the soil 1903 01:52:01,920 --> 01:52:06,160 Speaker 1: over so it's not accessible, or rotate the duff fields. Um. 1904 01:52:06,280 --> 01:52:08,400 Speaker 1: So there, you know, there are things that can be 1905 01:52:08,439 --> 01:52:11,719 Speaker 1: done short of an outright ban. And again it there's 1906 01:52:12,080 --> 01:52:16,719 Speaker 1: you know, shouldn't ban it unless there's population impacts. What's 1907 01:52:16,720 --> 01:52:18,960 Speaker 1: your perspective? We hear a lot in this like the 1908 01:52:19,000 --> 01:52:21,640 Speaker 1: bald eagle is used as the symbol of the other side, right, 1909 01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:26,400 Speaker 1: It's evokes a lot of emotion, right, and it's eagle 1910 01:52:26,479 --> 01:52:30,559 Speaker 1: populations are soaring, pardon the pun, right, And most states 1911 01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:33,719 Speaker 1: don't even bother counting nesting pairs anymorekers, they're so plentiful. 1912 01:52:33,760 --> 01:52:38,200 Speaker 1: But we see story after story after story, you know, um, 1913 01:52:38,479 --> 01:52:41,280 Speaker 1: and they're almost indistinguishable it's like a cookie cutter. And 1914 01:52:42,080 --> 01:52:45,120 Speaker 1: this is coming from you know, from anti hunting groups 1915 01:52:45,160 --> 01:52:48,719 Speaker 1: were convinced, you know that they hold up a single eagle, 1916 01:52:49,360 --> 01:52:54,679 Speaker 1: um that's in a in a you know Avian rescues 1917 01:52:54,800 --> 01:52:59,000 Speaker 1: thing and our place, and they extrapolate that, you know, 1918 01:52:59,040 --> 01:53:01,840 Speaker 1: there's this big problem and you have to band lead 1919 01:53:01,880 --> 01:53:06,120 Speaker 1: ammunition when a reality, you know, the populations of eagles 1920 01:53:06,120 --> 01:53:09,599 Speaker 1: are soaring, and there was that study in Iowa done 1921 01:53:09,640 --> 01:53:12,120 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. You know, it's like like 1922 01:53:13,160 --> 01:53:16,799 Speaker 1: it's a guy at federal who works on conspation issues, 1923 01:53:17,000 --> 01:53:22,479 Speaker 1: Ryan Bronson, and you know Ryan, great guy, he often said, 1924 01:53:22,520 --> 01:53:25,320 Speaker 1: and it's some of these state fishing Game agency means 1925 01:53:25,360 --> 01:53:27,800 Speaker 1: that we go to is like, look, if you look 1926 01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:31,880 Speaker 1: for uh, sick people in the hospital, guess what you're 1927 01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:35,800 Speaker 1: gonna find sick people. But you can't extrapolate from the 1928 01:53:35,880 --> 01:53:39,719 Speaker 1: sick person in the hospital that there's this problem outside 1929 01:53:39,760 --> 01:53:42,639 Speaker 1: of the hospital. And that's what that study in Iowa did. 1930 01:53:42,680 --> 01:53:45,960 Speaker 1: It actually went out and looked at you know, you know, 1931 01:53:46,840 --> 01:53:49,760 Speaker 1: the eagle population and said there was fine, there wasn't 1932 01:53:49,800 --> 01:53:54,320 Speaker 1: any evidence of a problem. So they know, they find 1933 01:53:54,320 --> 01:53:56,960 Speaker 1: one eagle, they bring it and they extrapolate from there 1934 01:53:56,960 --> 01:53:59,720 Speaker 1: and say, well, we gotta band lead ammunition when you know, 1935 01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:02,960 Speaker 1: and it's the hunters and the conservation dollars back pivoting 1936 01:54:02,960 --> 01:54:06,200 Speaker 1: back to Pittman Robertson, who paid for the restoration of 1937 01:54:06,240 --> 01:54:08,280 Speaker 1: the Eagle Hunters dead. You can think a hunt it right. 1938 01:54:08,320 --> 01:54:12,120 Speaker 1: So you're gonna you're gonna ban traditional ammunition without evidence 1939 01:54:12,160 --> 01:54:15,959 Speaker 1: that there's a population fact, and there's even less evidence 1940 01:54:16,320 --> 01:54:18,360 Speaker 1: that there's a human health risk. I mean to study 1941 01:54:18,400 --> 01:54:24,000 Speaker 1: the CDC did in in North Dakota, hunters had lower 1942 01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:28,400 Speaker 1: than the average, than the pop than the control group, 1943 01:54:28,840 --> 01:54:31,000 Speaker 1: lower than the average person walking around on the street. 1944 01:54:31,000 --> 01:54:33,680 Speaker 1: Everybody in this we all have some level of lead 1945 01:54:33,720 --> 01:54:39,600 Speaker 1: in or butt, right, it's but probably probably a uh 1946 01:54:39,800 --> 01:54:45,600 Speaker 1: factor predominantly rural, yes, so, and hunters who had hunted 1947 01:54:45,600 --> 01:54:47,920 Speaker 1: the longest had even lower levels. So if there was 1948 01:54:47,960 --> 01:54:51,160 Speaker 1: this idea that well, if you keep eating game harvested 1949 01:54:51,440 --> 01:54:54,320 Speaker 1: with traditional ammunition, lead's going to build up in your blood, 1950 01:54:54,320 --> 01:54:56,160 Speaker 1: well then these hunters that have been hunting the longest 1951 01:54:56,160 --> 01:54:58,640 Speaker 1: should have had higher readings, and I actually had lower readings. 1952 01:54:59,400 --> 01:55:05,120 Speaker 1: So that study probably like diminished exposure to all diminished 1953 01:55:05,120 --> 01:55:07,280 Speaker 1: exposure to all the other ways you'd just led. And 1954 01:55:07,320 --> 01:55:10,960 Speaker 1: nobody in the study had a lead level that was 1955 01:55:11,240 --> 01:55:15,080 Speaker 1: remotely approaching the threshold of concern for a child, let 1956 01:55:15,080 --> 01:55:18,560 Speaker 1: alone adults. Right, And there was one person in the study, 1957 01:55:18,600 --> 01:55:23,280 Speaker 1: as I recall, um, that had levels about the level 1958 01:55:23,360 --> 01:55:25,160 Speaker 1: of concern for a child, but this was an adult. 1959 01:55:25,160 --> 01:55:27,480 Speaker 1: But they had no that they couldn't say that lead 1960 01:55:27,560 --> 01:55:31,120 Speaker 1: was sourced from consuming game. And I always been checking 1961 01:55:31,160 --> 01:55:34,000 Speaker 1: the blood lead levels of their people in the state 1962 01:55:34,080 --> 01:55:37,800 Speaker 1: for years, right, a lot of hunting in Iowa. They've 1963 01:55:37,840 --> 01:55:40,040 Speaker 1: never seen it. There's never been a documented case of 1964 01:55:40,080 --> 01:55:43,000 Speaker 1: anybody in the United States having elevated lead levels, let 1965 01:55:43,040 --> 01:55:47,080 Speaker 1: alone lead poisoning from consuming game harvested with traditional ammunition. 1966 01:55:47,520 --> 01:55:52,440 Speaker 1: So what was your perspective in the early nineties when 1967 01:55:52,600 --> 01:55:59,640 Speaker 1: they banned lead ammunition for migratory waterfowl? So, yeah, you 1968 01:56:00,080 --> 01:56:02,600 Speaker 1: it predates me. But what I've heard is that, um, 1969 01:56:03,080 --> 01:56:07,640 Speaker 1: that this is just what I've heard in over the years, 1970 01:56:07,880 --> 01:56:12,520 Speaker 1: is that there really wasn't good science that that it 1971 01:56:12,560 --> 01:56:15,200 Speaker 1: was having a population impact. But basically came down to 1972 01:56:15,440 --> 01:56:18,000 Speaker 1: judge saying either you agree to this or I'm gonna 1973 01:56:18,040 --> 01:56:23,920 Speaker 1: ban waterfowl hunting nationwide, and and so sort of that's 1974 01:56:23,920 --> 01:56:26,600 Speaker 1: how it came to be. But I mean, we're not 1975 01:56:26,680 --> 01:56:33,000 Speaker 1: debating you know this issue now thirty years later, right, So, um, 1976 01:56:33,120 --> 01:56:35,640 Speaker 1: my dad said that, but he did have an impact 1977 01:56:35,640 --> 01:56:37,920 Speaker 1: on on duck hunting in the United States. My dad 1978 01:56:37,960 --> 01:56:41,600 Speaker 1: talked about because I was just starting hunt then, um, 1979 01:56:41,600 --> 01:56:44,880 Speaker 1: just starting legally hunt. My dad talk of people quiting hunting. Yeah, 1980 01:56:45,200 --> 01:56:48,000 Speaker 1: but the people adjusted to it over time. But so, 1981 01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:54,080 Speaker 1: but as an organization, what's your what's your perspective on um? Like, 1982 01:56:54,120 --> 01:56:56,600 Speaker 1: you represent industry, okay, and you want things to be 1983 01:56:56,760 --> 01:57:00,920 Speaker 1: smooth for the industry. What is your perspective bond cases 1984 01:57:00,960 --> 01:57:06,200 Speaker 1: and that, Like, let's say around letters other hypotheticals, Uh, 1985 01:57:06,440 --> 01:57:13,240 Speaker 1: where wildlife management agency is making a wildlife based decision. 1986 01:57:13,480 --> 01:57:15,280 Speaker 1: Here's a good hypothetical. I heard a story one time. 1987 01:57:15,280 --> 01:57:20,400 Speaker 1: I heard a story that Florida used to Florida that 1988 01:57:20,480 --> 01:57:26,440 Speaker 1: thing where they allowed rifle hunting for turkeys in the spring. Okay, 1989 01:57:27,360 --> 01:57:29,360 Speaker 1: let's just say there's a there's a there's a state 1990 01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:31,440 Speaker 1: that allows rifle hunting for turkeys in the spring. And 1991 01:57:31,520 --> 01:57:34,040 Speaker 1: someone points out that you don't wear hunters orange when 1992 01:57:34,040 --> 01:57:36,160 Speaker 1: you're hunting turkeys because they see the orange. And there 1993 01:57:36,160 --> 01:57:40,320 Speaker 1: s movement. Um, people are on the ground, people are 1994 01:57:40,400 --> 01:57:45,720 Speaker 1: mimicking the sounds of female turkeys, and the turkey hunting community. 1995 01:57:45,800 --> 01:57:50,040 Speaker 1: Let's say, in a hypothetical state, the turkey hunting community says, man, 1996 01:57:50,440 --> 01:57:52,960 Speaker 1: let's just keep let's just stick at the shotguns, because 1997 01:57:52,960 --> 01:57:56,680 Speaker 1: then we're everyone's safer out in the woods. And this 1998 01:57:56,840 --> 01:57:59,480 Speaker 1: is traditionally, you know, all across the councient people huntle 1999 01:57:59,480 --> 01:58:01,760 Speaker 1: with shotguns the spring, and we're going to conform to 2000 01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:07,680 Speaker 1: that norm as suggested by turkey hunters, the game agencies 2001 01:58:07,720 --> 01:58:12,280 Speaker 1: behind it. Now, what if someone looks and says, what 2002 01:58:12,400 --> 01:58:15,680 Speaker 1: might be a hunter issue, a game management issue, but 2003 01:58:15,760 --> 01:58:18,320 Speaker 1: someone looks and says, no, that's a gun issue. You're 2004 01:58:18,360 --> 01:58:22,160 Speaker 1: infringing gun rights. How do you, like, how do you 2005 01:58:22,240 --> 01:58:25,400 Speaker 1: navigate that? If? If you do that, the state fishing 2006 01:58:25,440 --> 01:58:28,920 Speaker 1: game agencies, you know, I have the authority to regulate 2007 01:58:29,520 --> 01:58:33,520 Speaker 1: the seasons, regulate the implements used for taking game. We 2008 01:58:34,320 --> 01:58:36,120 Speaker 1: have no problem with that. So if that were going on, 2009 01:58:36,320 --> 01:58:38,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's a it's a safety issue, right, 2010 01:58:38,360 --> 01:58:41,120 Speaker 1: And the bullets from a rifle travel a lot further 2011 01:58:41,120 --> 01:58:45,680 Speaker 1: than pellets from shotgun, so instinctively you don't see that 2012 01:58:45,800 --> 01:58:48,680 Speaker 1: and think that's a fight. I'm gonna wait into That's 2013 01:58:48,680 --> 01:58:50,680 Speaker 1: not a fight we would get involved in. I mean, 2014 01:58:50,760 --> 01:58:53,280 Speaker 1: thinking about it, it's even even where I live in Virginia, 2015 01:58:53,360 --> 01:58:55,720 Speaker 1: there are some counties that are closer here to to 2016 01:58:55,800 --> 01:58:59,440 Speaker 1: the DC area where you can only hunt with archery 2017 01:58:59,480 --> 01:59:03,320 Speaker 1: equipment because it's so so so densely populated. And then 2018 01:59:03,360 --> 01:59:05,000 Speaker 1: as you started to get a little bit further out, okay, 2019 01:59:05,000 --> 01:59:06,480 Speaker 1: you can hunt with a shotgun. And then once you 2020 01:59:06,520 --> 01:59:08,160 Speaker 1: get to these counties, okay, now you can hunt with 2021 01:59:08,160 --> 01:59:10,840 Speaker 1: a rifle. We don't have an issue with that. I mean, 2022 01:59:10,880 --> 01:59:15,160 Speaker 1: that's that's a safety issue. But you could see as 2023 01:59:15,240 --> 01:59:17,360 Speaker 1: much as uncomfortable with that stuff. You could see if 2024 01:59:17,400 --> 01:59:22,480 Speaker 1: that becoming a tool used by anti hunters. And so 2025 01:59:22,600 --> 01:59:24,240 Speaker 1: it's like, I guess that's the kind of the broader 2026 01:59:24,240 --> 01:59:27,800 Speaker 1: point I'm making is you always need to consider the 2027 01:59:27,840 --> 01:59:31,360 Speaker 1: source some things because there's ideas, like they said, like 2028 01:59:31,400 --> 01:59:35,760 Speaker 1: the abuse of the abuse of lead AMMO bands in California, 2029 01:59:35,800 --> 01:59:39,120 Speaker 1: where there's there's an isolated instance or an isolated case 2030 01:59:39,160 --> 01:59:43,680 Speaker 1: with migratory waterfowl. Say, we're looking like from a management perspective, 2031 01:59:44,600 --> 01:59:49,440 Speaker 1: this makes sense. Someone then looks and it says huh um, 2032 01:59:49,520 --> 01:59:52,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna now use manipulate this and use this as 2033 01:59:52,320 --> 01:59:59,720 Speaker 1: a general tool to curb people's rights. You're seeing that 2034 01:59:59,760 --> 02:00:01,920 Speaker 1: half right now in Oregon. So in Oregon, they've got 2035 02:00:01,920 --> 02:00:04,960 Speaker 1: several bills that we're trying to push back on that 2036 02:00:05,000 --> 02:00:08,480 Speaker 1: would include, uh, you know, a fourteen day waiting period, 2037 02:00:09,160 --> 02:00:12,560 Speaker 1: a limit of only twenty rounds a month, and five 2038 02:00:12,640 --> 02:00:20,920 Speaker 1: round magazine capacity shot around a skeet traps season. But 2039 02:00:21,000 --> 02:00:24,640 Speaker 1: on top of that, you're also looking at their their 2040 02:00:24,880 --> 02:00:27,000 Speaker 1: debating right now where they're going to have a ban 2041 02:00:27,200 --> 02:00:30,120 Speaker 1: on lead immunition for anyone between the ages of eighteen. 2042 02:00:32,240 --> 02:00:35,120 Speaker 1: I know that, and they the argument they make is 2043 02:00:35,160 --> 02:00:38,400 Speaker 1: its public health. See, this is what I'm this is 2044 02:00:38,440 --> 02:00:40,400 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about where you wind up in new 2045 02:00:40,520 --> 02:00:45,080 Speaker 1: situations where it's just it's like so clearly coming from 2046 02:00:46,120 --> 02:00:48,920 Speaker 1: the perspective of someone who is like I want to 2047 02:00:49,280 --> 02:00:52,720 Speaker 1: whittle away at I want to whittle away at this 2048 02:00:52,800 --> 02:00:55,480 Speaker 1: community or whittle away at people's rights. What are the 2049 02:00:55,520 --> 02:00:57,960 Speaker 1: things I can use to get there? So what we're 2050 02:00:57,960 --> 02:01:01,480 Speaker 1: saying is, uh, Connecticut, they was a bill introduced to 2051 02:01:01,800 --> 02:01:07,480 Speaker 1: a fifty tax and ammunition. Um, we've seen that in Seattle, 2052 02:01:08,640 --> 02:01:11,320 Speaker 1: Cook County, Illinois outside of Chicago, and you know, we 2053 02:01:11,400 --> 02:01:14,400 Speaker 1: see this in Oregon. The other thing we're seeing is, 2054 02:01:14,920 --> 02:01:18,920 Speaker 1: you know, we saw it in Florida. You know, say 2055 02:01:19,440 --> 02:01:24,680 Speaker 1: you cannot purchase long guns until one. So federal law 2056 02:01:24,960 --> 02:01:29,320 Speaker 1: now says you can't purchase a hanggun until one. So 2057 02:01:29,360 --> 02:01:32,800 Speaker 1: now you're eighteen nineteen and twenty. Federal law now says 2058 02:01:32,840 --> 02:01:34,680 Speaker 1: you have to be twenty one to purchase the hand 2059 02:01:35,960 --> 02:01:42,320 Speaker 1: control right. Yeah, so if you pan under state law 2060 02:01:42,680 --> 02:01:45,440 Speaker 1: was like in Florida for example, and there's lawsuit pending 2061 02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:49,520 Speaker 1: the eighteen nineteen and twenty and you can't purchase a 2062 02:01:49,600 --> 02:01:53,600 Speaker 1: long gun, you also can't purchase handgun. You're an adult, 2063 02:01:53,680 --> 02:01:56,000 Speaker 1: you could be in the military or you know, you 2064 02:01:56,480 --> 02:01:58,400 Speaker 1: could be the spouse of somebody in the military, you 2065 02:01:58,400 --> 02:02:02,320 Speaker 1: could have a child, you could you know, Um, you 2066 02:02:02,360 --> 02:02:05,640 Speaker 1: can't purchase a gun for target shooting, you can't purchase 2067 02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:08,000 Speaker 1: a gun for hunting, and you can't purchase a gun 2068 02:02:08,040 --> 02:02:11,120 Speaker 1: for self defense. To us, that is clearly a violation 2069 02:02:11,160 --> 02:02:12,880 Speaker 1: of the Second Amendment. We don't even think that's a 2070 02:02:12,920 --> 02:02:16,160 Speaker 1: close call. So again, you're looking at someone eighteen years old, 2071 02:02:16,200 --> 02:02:19,520 Speaker 1: fully vested in their rights. They can vote, freedom of speech, freedom, 2072 02:02:19,560 --> 02:02:22,800 Speaker 1: exercise of religion, free assembly. But you can't exercise your 2073 02:02:22,840 --> 02:02:25,000 Speaker 1: Second Amendment rights. You can't buy a gun until you 2074 02:02:25,080 --> 02:02:30,000 Speaker 1: twenty one. I wonder why we're twenty one because the 2075 02:02:30,080 --> 02:02:32,960 Speaker 1: drinking laws. I think it's an arbitrary number that they 2076 02:02:33,000 --> 02:02:36,160 Speaker 1: picked out of the air. I mean, you know, in 2077 02:02:37,800 --> 02:02:40,880 Speaker 1: long before Hella was decided, right, So you also can't 2078 02:02:41,240 --> 02:02:45,320 Speaker 1: buy handguns across their lines. I'm trying to think of 2079 02:02:45,360 --> 02:02:49,080 Speaker 1: how I had I had even from a dealer seventeen. 2080 02:02:49,080 --> 02:02:51,000 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of how I guess my dad 2081 02:02:51,080 --> 02:02:54,080 Speaker 1: just gave me any But you couldn't. You cannot walk 2082 02:02:54,080 --> 02:02:57,280 Speaker 1: into a gun store license e and purchase a handgun 2083 02:02:57,480 --> 02:03:01,280 Speaker 1: unless one and you're in my Tanna. You cannot drive 2084 02:03:01,320 --> 02:03:04,040 Speaker 1: into Wyoming, go to a license dealer in Wyoming and 2085 02:03:04,160 --> 02:03:09,320 Speaker 1: purchase a handgun from that dealer, even if you're older. 2086 02:03:09,560 --> 02:03:12,080 Speaker 1: You cannot buy a handgun across state lines. So yeah, 2087 02:03:12,120 --> 02:03:13,320 Speaker 1: I mean in case of point, when I was in 2088 02:03:13,320 --> 02:03:15,800 Speaker 1: the military, I could buy a handgun in any state 2089 02:03:15,840 --> 02:03:19,760 Speaker 1: I was stationed in because virtue of my my military orders. Now, 2090 02:03:19,800 --> 02:03:21,560 Speaker 1: my wife, I was in a Hampshire resident while I 2091 02:03:21,560 --> 02:03:23,480 Speaker 1: was in the military. My wife is a Texas resident, 2092 02:03:23,560 --> 02:03:26,560 Speaker 1: she maintained her Texas residency. For her to buy a handgun, 2093 02:03:27,040 --> 02:03:29,600 Speaker 1: she would either have to go back to Texas or 2094 02:03:30,040 --> 02:03:32,040 Speaker 1: she would have to change her residency every three years 2095 02:03:32,080 --> 02:03:35,040 Speaker 1: every time we moved. So you're putting that a huge 2096 02:03:35,040 --> 02:03:39,400 Speaker 1: burden on people. What is the what is the issue 2097 02:03:39,480 --> 02:03:45,680 Speaker 1: with the limit? The Oregon thing which I can't picture's 2098 02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:48,400 Speaker 1: gonna get youwhere? Or am I wrong? The twenty rounds? 2099 02:03:48,400 --> 02:03:50,640 Speaker 1: So what is it again? So you can only buy 2100 02:03:50,640 --> 02:03:53,960 Speaker 1: twenty rounds a month at Oregon State? Shock on? She 2101 02:03:56,120 --> 02:04:00,400 Speaker 1: state built five? One? That one out? And again, how 2102 02:04:00,440 --> 02:04:06,240 Speaker 1: do you enforce next month? So that's not gonna go anywhere? 2103 02:04:06,320 --> 02:04:09,520 Speaker 1: Is it? I would not I would not say no, 2104 02:04:09,800 --> 02:04:12,840 Speaker 1: not in Oregon? Right now? Yeah, So, I mean it's 2105 02:04:12,880 --> 02:04:15,040 Speaker 1: a thing about it is we go to We're going 2106 02:04:15,080 --> 02:04:17,040 Speaker 1: to go out duck hunting, and I'm a terrible shot 2107 02:04:17,120 --> 02:04:18,840 Speaker 1: and I can't shoot anything. So I blow through twenty 2108 02:04:18,920 --> 02:04:20,800 Speaker 1: rounds right away, trying to shoot my first two ducks, 2109 02:04:21,600 --> 02:04:25,120 Speaker 1: and then I'm like, I'm out of AMMO. I look 2110 02:04:25,120 --> 02:04:26,560 Speaker 1: at you and say, Steven, let me get some shal 2111 02:04:26,840 --> 02:04:29,600 Speaker 1: from you so I can continue shoot. Am I violation 2112 02:04:29,640 --> 02:04:31,760 Speaker 1: to law now? Because I'm now transferring AMMO to me? 2113 02:04:31,960 --> 02:04:34,600 Speaker 1: Are you violating law because you're answering handing AMMO to me? 2114 02:04:34,760 --> 02:04:36,360 Speaker 1: I guess I can't ask you to pay me back 2115 02:04:36,400 --> 02:04:42,480 Speaker 1: for well, he's only got twenty himself. So luck what 2116 02:04:42,520 --> 02:04:46,560 Speaker 1: other uh? What other things are you guys watching for 2117 02:04:46,840 --> 02:04:50,880 Speaker 1: that make you? Um, you know, I guess like not 2118 02:04:50,880 --> 02:04:54,760 Speaker 1: not ones that not pieces of legislation. Again, man, I 2119 02:04:54,760 --> 02:04:59,000 Speaker 1: don't know, that's very hard for me to picture. Uh, 2120 02:04:59,040 --> 02:05:01,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know the the political climate there. 2121 02:05:01,080 --> 02:05:05,360 Speaker 1: That's very hard for me to picture. Passing California. It's 2122 02:05:05,400 --> 02:05:08,520 Speaker 1: it's tough your listeners that live in Oregon and pick 2123 02:05:08,600 --> 02:05:11,160 Speaker 1: up a phone, call your state senator and call your representative. 2124 02:05:11,640 --> 02:05:14,240 Speaker 1: Make sure they know how ridiculous that is. It includes 2125 02:05:14,280 --> 02:05:18,160 Speaker 1: shotgun shells. Okay, what are the what are the pieces 2126 02:05:18,160 --> 02:05:23,080 Speaker 1: of legislation that you're looking at? And uh, the ones 2127 02:05:23,080 --> 02:05:27,680 Speaker 1: you're most leria of coming up? We base you spend 2128 02:05:27,720 --> 02:05:31,400 Speaker 1: some time on age basis a concern attempts to ban 2129 02:05:31,520 --> 02:05:35,440 Speaker 1: monitors boarding rifles. We see that, you know, Um, we're 2130 02:05:36,040 --> 02:05:39,600 Speaker 1: looking at that and in several states, Yeah, maybe Nevada, 2131 02:05:39,680 --> 02:05:45,080 Speaker 1: maybe Oregon, maybe in Colorado's Colorado yep. So we're concerned 2132 02:05:45,120 --> 02:05:48,400 Speaker 1: about that. Um. Those are by far the most popular 2133 02:05:48,480 --> 02:05:51,640 Speaker 1: rifles being sold in the United States. Articulate from your 2134 02:05:51,680 --> 02:05:55,720 Speaker 1: perspective on it, it's a semi automatic rifle. UM. They 2135 02:05:55,760 --> 02:06:00,760 Speaker 1: are like the ninety four and that was in place 2136 02:06:00,760 --> 02:06:03,600 Speaker 1: for ten years. They would be banning the products based 2137 02:06:03,600 --> 02:06:07,280 Speaker 1: on cosmetic features. There's no um effect on how the 2138 02:06:07,280 --> 02:06:10,360 Speaker 1: fire and functions. Semi Automatic firems have been in civilian 2139 02:06:10,400 --> 02:06:13,919 Speaker 1: possession for well over a hundred years. UH. The studies 2140 02:06:14,000 --> 02:06:17,640 Speaker 1: that were done by the government on the Clinton gun 2141 02:06:17,680 --> 02:06:20,560 Speaker 1: band showed that it had absolutely no impact on reducing 2142 02:06:20,600 --> 02:06:22,480 Speaker 1: crime in the United States. We also had a magazine 2143 02:06:22,480 --> 02:06:25,360 Speaker 1: capacity restriction for ten years. It had absolutely no impact 2144 02:06:25,360 --> 02:06:29,200 Speaker 1: on reducing crime. Uh. It's that no impact on reducing 2145 02:06:29,200 --> 02:06:32,520 Speaker 1: crime in the states that that have passed it. UM, 2146 02:06:32,600 --> 02:06:37,400 Speaker 1: So you're just denying people a rifle that they want 2147 02:06:37,480 --> 02:06:40,440 Speaker 1: to purchase for lawful purposes. Primarily target shooting is the 2148 02:06:40,480 --> 02:06:46,640 Speaker 1: main use, increasingly hunting, and also for UM personal protective 2149 02:06:46,680 --> 02:06:50,920 Speaker 1: self defense. I was, you know, I was, I don't know. 2150 02:06:51,040 --> 02:06:53,160 Speaker 1: I was out of high school but didn't follow things 2151 02:06:53,160 --> 02:06:57,640 Speaker 1: as closely. Then. What did the night ban was that 2152 02:06:58,320 --> 02:07:02,840 Speaker 1: at the time was adoption rates of a are so 2153 02:07:03,040 --> 02:07:05,120 Speaker 1: low that there wasn't any resistance or was that like 2154 02:07:05,120 --> 02:07:08,080 Speaker 1: a contentious It was extremely contentious. I didn't know if 2155 02:07:08,080 --> 02:07:09,680 Speaker 1: it was like one of those things where it wasn't 2156 02:07:09,720 --> 02:07:11,840 Speaker 1: They weren't widespread, you still it kind of went on 2157 02:07:12,040 --> 02:07:16,240 Speaker 1: not unnoticed, but was grown in popularity since the sun set, 2158 02:07:16,560 --> 02:07:21,320 Speaker 1: for partly because the sunset, and then also largely as 2159 02:07:21,360 --> 02:07:24,880 Speaker 1: we talked earlier, people that served in the military came 2160 02:07:24,920 --> 02:07:28,560 Speaker 1: back from overseas or being in military and wanted to 2161 02:07:28,560 --> 02:07:33,520 Speaker 1: purchase these firearms for target shooting, primarily. More than sixteen 2162 02:07:33,560 --> 02:07:37,480 Speaker 1: million modern sporting rifles are in private ownership today, more 2163 02:07:37,520 --> 02:07:40,839 Speaker 1: than sixteen million, sixteen million just since ninety four. They've 2164 02:07:41,080 --> 02:07:43,840 Speaker 1: they've been on the commercial market since nineteen sixty three. 2165 02:07:44,200 --> 02:07:47,080 Speaker 1: There's a nineteen sixty one Cult Sport had out there 2166 02:07:47,600 --> 02:07:53,040 Speaker 1: talking about hunting with the cult Sporter rifle, which was 2167 02:07:53,680 --> 02:07:58,360 Speaker 1: a nifty What what do people do in states where 2168 02:07:58,400 --> 02:08:02,880 Speaker 1: you know, okay, like if you're hunting, uh, you hunt waterfowl, 2169 02:08:03,800 --> 02:08:07,320 Speaker 1: you have a three shot limit, so you can only 2170 02:08:07,320 --> 02:08:11,120 Speaker 1: have three shots in the sun. And that's a not 2171 02:08:11,200 --> 02:08:13,720 Speaker 1: a vestige. I mean, it has to do with in 2172 02:08:13,840 --> 02:08:17,200 Speaker 1: order to have plenty of opportunity for everyone to hunt. 2173 02:08:18,240 --> 02:08:21,400 Speaker 1: State game agencies need to in federal you know, in 2174 02:08:21,440 --> 02:08:24,720 Speaker 1: this case US Fishing and Wildlife Service, they take measures 2175 02:08:24,800 --> 02:08:28,360 Speaker 1: to to limit efficacy so that you can spread that. 2176 02:08:28,440 --> 02:08:30,840 Speaker 1: So it's like this matter we are here like fair chase, 2177 02:08:30,840 --> 02:08:34,000 Speaker 1: which is a problematic term, but fair share, right, You're 2178 02:08:34,040 --> 02:08:36,880 Speaker 1: you're expanding things. So if you have states that have 2179 02:08:37,240 --> 02:08:40,560 Speaker 1: MAGA like states that have magazine capacities, what do a 2180 02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:45,200 Speaker 1: R hunters do if you have a state where you 2181 02:08:45,240 --> 02:08:50,000 Speaker 1: have a four shot limit, so you, um, you know, 2182 02:08:50,240 --> 02:08:54,000 Speaker 1: models with smaller magazines that are you know, cam out 2183 02:08:54,040 --> 02:08:57,080 Speaker 1: out and uh, you know sold for the hunting market, 2184 02:08:57,760 --> 02:09:00,160 Speaker 1: or you just have a larger magazine, but you can 2185 02:09:00,160 --> 02:09:02,440 Speaker 1: only have so many rounds and people people produce that 2186 02:09:02,720 --> 02:09:05,800 Speaker 1: I've never I've never hunted the one I've shot. Yeah, 2187 02:09:05,800 --> 02:09:09,160 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's a small part of the hunting market. 2188 02:09:09,160 --> 02:09:13,760 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's yeah, but I've hunted where they are, 2189 02:09:13,760 --> 02:09:16,880 Speaker 1: So I've hunted hunted predators. I've hunted hogs with him. Um, 2190 02:09:17,600 --> 02:09:20,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, people have hunted big game with them. 2191 02:09:20,440 --> 02:09:23,800 Speaker 1: They come you know the other side, you know, they 2192 02:09:24,520 --> 02:09:27,240 Speaker 1: they don't understand that it comes in different calipers, right. 2193 02:09:27,280 --> 02:09:30,280 Speaker 1: I mean, like what we did an exercise at a 2194 02:09:30,320 --> 02:09:34,040 Speaker 1: conference of state legislators. We had a poster. We had 2195 02:09:35,040 --> 02:09:40,560 Speaker 1: uh Remington a r in camo. It was our fifteen 2196 02:09:42,200 --> 02:09:44,440 Speaker 1: udly was chambered in three or eight, and then we 2197 02:09:44,480 --> 02:09:49,320 Speaker 1: had a black Smith and Wesson MMPO twenty two long rifle, 2198 02:09:49,960 --> 02:09:52,840 Speaker 1: and we had the two bullets like on the bottom 2199 02:09:52,880 --> 02:09:56,240 Speaker 1: of the poster and like actual size, and we asked 2200 02:09:56,400 --> 02:10:00,480 Speaker 1: people state legislad or small of the country, Um, okay, 2201 02:10:00,640 --> 02:10:02,480 Speaker 1: you know which is you know, which goes to which 2202 02:10:02,520 --> 02:10:06,200 Speaker 1: they invariably said, you know, like got it wrong or which, 2203 02:10:06,560 --> 02:10:09,560 Speaker 1: Oh that one that's okay because it's camouflaged. The black one, 2204 02:10:09,600 --> 02:10:13,440 Speaker 1: well that's bad, just like you know, and they would 2205 02:10:13,480 --> 02:10:15,880 Speaker 1: just assume that the larger, you know, because they all 2206 02:10:15,920 --> 02:10:18,920 Speaker 1: they hear right in the media is you know, high 2207 02:10:19,000 --> 02:10:23,840 Speaker 1: powered assault rifles. Most a RS mountain sporting rifles coming 2208 02:10:23,880 --> 02:10:27,600 Speaker 1: two two three Remington's right. Most states will not let 2209 02:10:27,640 --> 02:10:29,680 Speaker 1: you hunt white tail deer with it two two three 2210 02:10:29,680 --> 02:10:33,480 Speaker 1: Remington's it's not powerful enough. But you know, if you're 2211 02:10:33,800 --> 02:10:36,560 Speaker 1: prairie dogs and things like that, that's where the people 2212 02:10:36,640 --> 02:10:39,240 Speaker 1: use them a lot or hog hunting Farrell hogs and 2213 02:10:39,320 --> 02:10:44,520 Speaker 1: which is a great, great against coyotes and kyotes. Right, So, 2214 02:10:44,600 --> 02:10:47,920 Speaker 1: what's what's the conversation that you have with states that 2215 02:10:47,960 --> 02:10:57,240 Speaker 1: are that are considering bands. There's often not much you're 2216 02:10:57,240 --> 02:11:00,720 Speaker 1: a conversation, all right, I mean, they just nothing you 2217 02:11:00,760 --> 02:11:03,440 Speaker 1: can say. They want to hear. They don't care a right, 2218 02:11:03,480 --> 02:11:06,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's politically expedient and they think it's 2219 02:11:07,320 --> 02:11:13,760 Speaker 1: popular politically, and they trade on the false information. They 2220 02:11:13,800 --> 02:11:15,640 Speaker 1: don't want to know the truth, they don't want to 2221 02:11:15,640 --> 02:11:18,240 Speaker 1: know the facts. I think an easy case to point 2222 02:11:18,240 --> 02:11:20,720 Speaker 1: is is how quickly New York pushed through their safegun 2223 02:11:20,720 --> 02:11:22,960 Speaker 1: Act and their gun loss that they're pushing through right now. 2224 02:11:23,040 --> 02:11:27,480 Speaker 1: They're literally days it's their introduction and three days later 2225 02:11:27,560 --> 02:11:30,600 Speaker 1: the governor signed again into law. There's no there's no 2226 02:11:30,680 --> 02:11:34,040 Speaker 1: public hearing in New York. Often the case, the bill 2227 02:11:34,120 --> 02:11:36,920 Speaker 1: isn't even written when they pass it. It's just like 2228 02:11:36,960 --> 02:11:39,280 Speaker 1: a concept, right, here's an outline of what will be 2229 02:11:39,280 --> 02:11:41,360 Speaker 1: in it, and then they write it later. No, No, 2230 02:11:41,720 --> 02:11:44,040 Speaker 1: there's no public hearings, an opportunity for people coming and 2231 02:11:44,080 --> 02:11:46,600 Speaker 1: testify against it in New York and the rest of 2232 02:11:46,600 --> 02:11:49,680 Speaker 1: the legislature doesn't see the bill it's decided by the 2233 02:11:50,280 --> 02:11:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, the head of the House, the head of 2234 02:11:52,160 --> 02:11:55,280 Speaker 1: the Senate, and the governor. And that's what happened, you know, 2235 02:11:55,360 --> 02:11:59,080 Speaker 1: the other day in New York. That the thing I'm 2236 02:11:59,120 --> 02:12:01,800 Speaker 1: a little bit guilty of is, you know, I've lived 2237 02:12:01,800 --> 02:12:05,680 Speaker 1: in a lot of states where you didn't feel that 2238 02:12:05,920 --> 02:12:11,480 Speaker 1: you're rights are being infringed down, and you become not 2239 02:12:11,480 --> 02:12:14,440 Speaker 1: only passive, you just you don't you're not aware of 2240 02:12:14,560 --> 02:12:17,920 Speaker 1: what's going on. You become passive about issues like you know, 2241 02:12:18,240 --> 02:12:19,640 Speaker 1: like I've just lived a lot of states like that. 2242 02:12:19,680 --> 02:12:22,720 Speaker 1: I spent time in Alaska, spent time in Montana. You 2243 02:12:22,800 --> 02:12:26,720 Speaker 1: just kind of lose sight of what happens. I lived 2244 02:12:26,720 --> 02:12:31,560 Speaker 1: in New York for a while, and living there, I 2245 02:12:32,200 --> 02:12:39,640 Speaker 1: really felt um like kind of like victimized. And you've 2246 02:12:39,680 --> 02:12:41,320 Speaker 1: got the sense that sort of like there was a 2247 02:12:41,560 --> 02:12:47,720 Speaker 1: there was a tacit governmental disapproval of your perspective and lifestyle, 2248 02:12:49,120 --> 02:12:52,520 Speaker 1: and it made to the point where you're engaged in 2249 02:12:52,600 --> 02:12:56,480 Speaker 1: lawful activities and you're someone who's accustomed to like enjoying 2250 02:12:56,520 --> 02:13:00,800 Speaker 1: certain liberties, you know, not enjoying, but actually sizing liberties 2251 02:13:00,800 --> 02:13:03,600 Speaker 1: and rights, and you come up against a system where 2252 02:13:03,600 --> 02:13:05,480 Speaker 1: you're like, man, I feel like the system is in 2253 02:13:05,520 --> 02:13:10,560 Speaker 1: some ways designed to make it very hard, to make 2254 02:13:10,560 --> 02:13:14,360 Speaker 1: it very hard for me to be above the books. 2255 02:13:14,560 --> 02:13:18,080 Speaker 1: I had to have a while where I could only 2256 02:13:18,520 --> 02:13:20,839 Speaker 1: you had to register everything, and you can only register 2257 02:13:20,920 --> 02:13:24,320 Speaker 1: them at a certain cadence. And being in the business 2258 02:13:24,320 --> 02:13:29,960 Speaker 1: that I'm in, um, it wound up being like restrictive, 2259 02:13:30,760 --> 02:13:35,000 Speaker 1: restricting me to carry about what I view as a 2260 02:13:35,120 --> 02:13:41,960 Speaker 1: legitimate business enterprise and being there, but then also seeing 2261 02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:45,400 Speaker 1: evidence of the way that the people who don't care 2262 02:13:45,440 --> 02:13:50,360 Speaker 1: about doing things by the book, how they operated, and 2263 02:13:50,400 --> 02:13:53,080 Speaker 1: it just felt like and then and then you had 2264 02:13:53,120 --> 02:13:55,560 Speaker 1: like this heightened sense and then you developed this like 2265 02:13:55,680 --> 02:13:57,800 Speaker 1: really heightened sense of losing your rights. You're like, oh, 2266 02:13:57,840 --> 02:13:59,400 Speaker 1: you know, I want to there's something I should be 2267 02:13:59,400 --> 02:14:02,640 Speaker 1: involved in. And then eventually like out of there and 2268 02:14:02,920 --> 02:14:04,840 Speaker 1: take off and kind of forget about the whole thing 2269 02:14:04,880 --> 02:14:07,200 Speaker 1: again because you take for granted and you can have 2270 02:14:07,440 --> 02:14:10,040 Speaker 1: a you can have a rifle in your truck and 2271 02:14:10,040 --> 02:14:13,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't need to be in a hard case, and 2272 02:14:13,480 --> 02:14:16,040 Speaker 1: you can lend your body your gun, and you can 2273 02:14:16,120 --> 02:14:18,120 Speaker 1: have a closet that has a few cases the AMMO, 2274 02:14:18,200 --> 02:14:22,000 Speaker 1: and you lose well, I mean so at the State 2275 02:14:22,080 --> 02:14:26,840 Speaker 1: of the Industry UM event at the Shot Show are 2276 02:14:28,440 --> 02:14:32,360 Speaker 1: UM CEO Steve Sinnetti spoke to this this sort of 2277 02:14:32,440 --> 02:14:36,160 Speaker 1: very issue the you know the that in America, you know, 2278 02:14:36,200 --> 02:14:39,560 Speaker 1: I have the right to enjoy my activities. I like, 2279 02:14:40,000 --> 02:14:41,960 Speaker 1: you don't have to like hunting, you don't have to 2280 02:14:42,000 --> 02:14:44,640 Speaker 1: like shooting, but you should respect that I do. And 2281 02:14:44,680 --> 02:14:47,200 Speaker 1: you should respect that I should have the freedom to 2282 02:14:47,240 --> 02:14:51,560 Speaker 1: engage in these lawful activities. Uh. And you know you're 2283 02:14:51,560 --> 02:14:56,320 Speaker 1: infringing upon my liberty, my freedom. You're not making uh 2284 02:14:56,440 --> 02:14:59,800 Speaker 1: the world a safer place. You're just you're just restricting 2285 02:14:59,840 --> 02:15:02,919 Speaker 1: my rights. And you know, in America you should respect 2286 02:15:03,400 --> 02:15:05,360 Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to agree with other people, 2287 02:15:05,400 --> 02:15:07,560 Speaker 1: but you should respect that they have the right to 2288 02:15:07,600 --> 02:15:10,440 Speaker 1: do these things and it's not causing problems. And to 2289 02:15:10,520 --> 02:15:13,760 Speaker 1: your point, all these I mean you hear it. It's 2290 02:15:13,760 --> 02:15:17,160 Speaker 1: almost cliche, but it's true. All these con control laws 2291 02:15:17,240 --> 02:15:20,920 Speaker 1: only impact the law body. We had Mark Robinson, the 2292 02:15:20,920 --> 02:15:27,040 Speaker 1: guy from the YouTube of Greenville's, North Carolina. You know, 2293 02:15:27,200 --> 02:15:29,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to obey the law, but the criminal is 2294 02:15:29,600 --> 02:15:33,840 Speaker 1: not right. So all these laws don't don't stop the 2295 02:15:33,840 --> 02:15:36,080 Speaker 1: bad guy, right, I mean, the criminal is not going 2296 02:15:36,120 --> 02:15:37,840 Speaker 1: to pay attention to the law. I mean it's kind 2297 02:15:37,840 --> 02:15:41,760 Speaker 1: of definitionaliz I mean that's and so take the case 2298 02:15:41,840 --> 02:15:44,080 Speaker 1: now that's going to the Supreme Court. Finally after ten 2299 02:15:44,160 --> 02:15:48,080 Speaker 1: years from hell, are the is finally taken a case. 2300 02:15:48,680 --> 02:15:52,240 Speaker 1: Now that you know you have uh cabanals on the 2301 02:15:52,240 --> 02:15:55,360 Speaker 1: court and gorse It's on the court, they've taken a case. Thankfully, 2302 02:15:56,240 --> 02:15:58,800 Speaker 1: We'll see what happens. But I think it's hard to 2303 02:15:58,840 --> 02:16:02,320 Speaker 1: imagine in this case. It um Supreme Court doesn't rule 2304 02:16:02,320 --> 02:16:04,160 Speaker 1: that a slam dun't to me. I mean I hate 2305 02:16:04,160 --> 02:16:06,760 Speaker 1: as they say that. Yeah, I mean it's so in 2306 02:16:06,800 --> 02:16:10,000 Speaker 1: New York City you can only have a pistol in 2307 02:16:10,040 --> 02:16:13,480 Speaker 1: your home with the permit, and you can take the 2308 02:16:13,480 --> 02:16:16,040 Speaker 1: pistol and go to a shooting range, and there are 2309 02:16:16,200 --> 02:16:18,440 Speaker 1: seven in the city within the five boroughs the City 2310 02:16:18,480 --> 02:16:21,680 Speaker 1: of New York and back. But the gun has to 2311 02:16:21,680 --> 02:16:24,240 Speaker 1: be unloaded. It has to be in a heart case 2312 02:16:24,360 --> 02:16:30,959 Speaker 1: and locked. Right. Um. Now, let's say you live in 2313 02:16:30,960 --> 02:16:36,560 Speaker 1: in uh in co Op City, in in New York, 2314 02:16:36,600 --> 02:16:40,280 Speaker 1: which is close to the Westchester County border, and you 2315 02:16:40,320 --> 02:16:42,720 Speaker 1: want to go to uh shooting range. It's opened up 2316 02:16:42,720 --> 02:16:45,560 Speaker 1: in in Westchester County. You're outside of the city of 2317 02:16:45,600 --> 02:16:50,280 Speaker 1: New York. You cannot take your pistol. Put it unloaded, 2318 02:16:50,320 --> 02:16:52,200 Speaker 1: put it in the case, locked the case, and go 2319 02:16:52,280 --> 02:16:54,959 Speaker 1: to Westchester, to that range in Western County across the 2320 02:16:55,000 --> 02:16:59,480 Speaker 1: city line. You've committed a crime. Let's say you have 2321 02:16:59,520 --> 02:17:02,680 Speaker 1: a weekend house or something like in uh in the 2322 02:17:02,680 --> 02:17:08,240 Speaker 1: Cat's Skill. You can't take that pistol unloaded, Put it 2323 02:17:08,240 --> 02:17:10,960 Speaker 1: in the case, lock it, and drive to your weekend 2324 02:17:10,959 --> 02:17:14,040 Speaker 1: house in the Catskills. You've committed a crime. Let's say 2325 02:17:14,240 --> 02:17:16,520 Speaker 1: you decide, I'm out of here. I can't take New 2326 02:17:16,560 --> 02:17:22,520 Speaker 1: York City anymore. I'm moving to wherever, Montana. You can't 2327 02:17:23,640 --> 02:17:27,600 Speaker 1: you can't take that fire. You can't take that that pistol. 2328 02:17:27,720 --> 02:17:29,959 Speaker 1: Put it unloaded, put it in the case, locked the case, 2329 02:17:30,280 --> 02:17:35,080 Speaker 1: and drive to Montana. You've committed a crime. In the 2330 02:17:35,160 --> 02:17:38,280 Speaker 1: District Court, the Federal District Court, and the U. S. 2331 02:17:38,360 --> 02:17:41,280 Speaker 1: Couarter Appeals for the Second Circuit sits in Manhattan ruled 2332 02:17:41,280 --> 02:17:44,480 Speaker 1: that that that did not violate the Second Amendment, like 2333 02:17:44,560 --> 02:17:46,840 Speaker 1: because you know, the city had an interest in like, 2334 02:17:47,320 --> 02:17:49,240 Speaker 1: you know, not having guns on the you know, on 2335 02:17:49,280 --> 02:17:53,760 Speaker 1: the street. Now, I don't know one dang banger criminal 2336 02:17:54,160 --> 02:17:58,400 Speaker 1: drug dealer in the Five boroughs. That is a buying 2337 02:17:58,480 --> 02:18:00,800 Speaker 1: by that law, right, I mean, I was just making 2338 02:18:01,160 --> 02:18:03,879 Speaker 1: New York City safer. I just cannot imagine I had 2339 02:18:03,920 --> 02:18:06,480 Speaker 1: to spend that that that court doesn't. I had just 2340 02:18:06,560 --> 02:18:09,760 Speaker 1: been hundreds of dollars for a permit. You're lucky to 2341 02:18:09,800 --> 02:18:11,720 Speaker 1: get one. And there was an article just the other 2342 02:18:11,800 --> 02:18:15,280 Speaker 1: day about the only people uh in New York City 2343 02:18:15,400 --> 02:18:17,600 Speaker 1: who are able to get carry permits are you know, 2344 02:18:17,640 --> 02:18:21,120 Speaker 1: the rich and famous. Yeah, and there's a whole big 2345 02:18:21,160 --> 02:18:26,120 Speaker 1: scandal going on about bribes that we're being taking, well 2346 02:18:26,360 --> 02:18:31,280 Speaker 1: within the Pistol Licensing Unit, within the NYPD. You know, 2347 02:18:31,440 --> 02:18:36,560 Speaker 1: some guy was caught taking bribes to clear permits. Yeah, 2348 02:18:36,640 --> 02:18:39,000 Speaker 1: So explain the Supreme Court case it's coming up. So 2349 02:18:39,080 --> 02:18:42,120 Speaker 1: that's the New York soone the individual challenge, there's a 2350 02:18:42,200 --> 02:18:46,160 Speaker 1: lawsuit that challenged this this requirement in New York City's law. 2351 02:18:46,320 --> 02:18:48,640 Speaker 1: So it's not that someone got busted and appealed up 2352 02:18:48,680 --> 02:18:50,680 Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court. I want to be able to 2353 02:18:50,720 --> 02:18:53,199 Speaker 1: you know, I should be able to go outside the city. 2354 02:18:53,840 --> 02:18:56,680 Speaker 1: The laws on constitutions right, that this list law is 2355 02:18:56,720 --> 02:19:01,400 Speaker 1: on constitutional on the Second Amendment and also violates the 2356 02:19:01,480 --> 02:19:03,400 Speaker 1: right you know, you have a constitutional right to travel, 2357 02:19:03,440 --> 02:19:07,080 Speaker 1: so I can't take my pistol with me and and that. Um, 2358 02:19:07,160 --> 02:19:10,440 Speaker 1: so they sued, They lost to the district court, they 2359 02:19:10,480 --> 02:19:12,360 Speaker 1: lost at the Court of Appeals, and now Supreme Court 2360 02:19:12,360 --> 02:19:15,520 Speaker 1: has agreed to hear the case. And I have a 2361 02:19:15,520 --> 02:19:19,959 Speaker 1: hard time imagining that the Supreme Court doesn't rule that 2362 02:19:19,959 --> 02:19:23,080 Speaker 1: that it goes too far, that that violates the Second Amendment, 2363 02:19:24,200 --> 02:19:27,600 Speaker 1: because the Court and Heller, for example, has already said, uh, 2364 02:19:27,600 --> 02:19:31,960 Speaker 1: and the McDonald you have the right. The Second Amendment 2365 02:19:31,959 --> 02:19:34,240 Speaker 1: involves two rights, the right to carry, the right to 2366 02:19:34,360 --> 02:19:37,800 Speaker 1: keep and the right to carry. Two rights. Right, it's 2367 02:19:37,840 --> 02:19:40,720 Speaker 1: not one, it's two rights. Uh. And that those are 2368 02:19:40,760 --> 02:19:43,880 Speaker 1: common law rights that predated the Constitution. The Second Amendment 2369 02:19:43,920 --> 02:19:48,240 Speaker 1: didn't create those rights. It protected them, right, but those 2370 02:19:48,320 --> 02:19:51,520 Speaker 1: rights were already existing under English common law that was 2371 02:19:51,560 --> 02:19:55,879 Speaker 1: adopted by the United States, you know, after we won 2372 02:19:55,920 --> 02:20:01,200 Speaker 1: the War of Independence. And uh, the Court has said 2373 02:20:01,240 --> 02:20:04,440 Speaker 1: that the right to bear arms means to have it 2374 02:20:04,480 --> 02:20:07,560 Speaker 1: on your person to carry it. So there have been 2375 02:20:07,600 --> 02:20:10,560 Speaker 1: some courts like the Seventh Circuit that you know, you 2376 02:20:10,560 --> 02:20:13,160 Speaker 1: you and we've seen it in in d C. You 2377 02:20:13,200 --> 02:20:15,560 Speaker 1: have the right to carry a firearm self protection, which 2378 02:20:15,560 --> 02:20:19,120 Speaker 1: is why now every single state, UM in the country 2379 02:20:19,520 --> 02:20:22,920 Speaker 1: has to allow some level of of right to carry. 2380 02:20:23,480 --> 02:20:26,360 Speaker 1: Right that the last state was I think Wisconsin and 2381 02:20:26,520 --> 02:20:29,480 Speaker 1: Illinois with like the last two states that you know, 2382 02:20:29,520 --> 02:20:32,560 Speaker 1: even in the District Columbia. So now there are different 2383 02:20:32,680 --> 02:20:36,320 Speaker 1: like some states are shallice you. Some states now increasingly 2384 02:20:36,920 --> 02:20:40,560 Speaker 1: including now most recently South Dakota, are a constitutional right 2385 02:20:40,600 --> 02:20:43,960 Speaker 1: to carry. You don't need the government's permission. UM. New 2386 02:20:43,959 --> 02:20:47,920 Speaker 1: Hampshire changed recently. UM. So that's a trend, that's positive 2387 02:20:47,920 --> 02:20:53,640 Speaker 1: trend that's happening. UM. And and uh. Other states that 2388 02:20:53,800 --> 02:20:55,800 Speaker 1: you know, you have to prove, like in Maryland, you 2389 02:20:55,840 --> 02:20:57,959 Speaker 1: have to like you know, prove you have a need 2390 02:20:58,600 --> 02:21:01,160 Speaker 1: uh and get the blessing of the government in order 2391 02:21:01,200 --> 02:21:04,720 Speaker 1: to carry a firearm for self protection. Interestingly, the District 2392 02:21:04,720 --> 02:21:09,160 Speaker 1: of Columbia, it's it's actually through the court decisions essentially 2393 02:21:09,200 --> 02:21:14,800 Speaker 1: a shall issue jurisdiction. They don't can't use their discretion 2394 02:21:14,879 --> 02:21:16,840 Speaker 1: to deny you. And we see that a lot right 2395 02:21:16,840 --> 02:21:21,440 Speaker 1: in other parts of the country where you know, I 2396 02:21:21,520 --> 02:21:23,520 Speaker 1: like you, I'll give you one. I don't like you 2397 02:21:23,560 --> 02:21:26,240 Speaker 1: so much you didn't contribute to my campaign or you know, 2398 02:21:26,320 --> 02:21:28,600 Speaker 1: like I don't like you or you're not my buddy, 2399 02:21:28,800 --> 02:21:30,240 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna give it to you. And you see 2400 02:21:30,280 --> 02:21:32,119 Speaker 1: a lot of abuse to that discretion that takes place. 2401 02:21:32,320 --> 02:21:35,000 Speaker 1: It's probably having in California right now, is it's county 2402 02:21:35,000 --> 02:21:38,200 Speaker 1: by county, the county sheriff gets to decide, Well, Los 2403 02:21:38,240 --> 02:21:40,959 Speaker 1: Angeles County, good luck. You know, you go out to 2404 02:21:41,000 --> 02:21:43,480 Speaker 1: current county where it's more rural, and the county sheriff 2405 02:21:43,480 --> 02:21:45,840 Speaker 1: out there is good with it. He'll he'll unless he's 2406 02:21:45,840 --> 02:21:47,600 Speaker 1: got a need for you to not carry, he's gonna 2407 02:21:47,600 --> 02:21:51,880 Speaker 1: give you an apartment. So you're you know, your constitution 2408 02:21:52,000 --> 02:21:56,560 Speaker 1: rights shouldn't be determined by the happenstance of geography. Remember 2409 02:21:56,680 --> 02:22:00,560 Speaker 1: years ago, when my father went to get his conceived permit, 2410 02:22:00,640 --> 02:22:04,560 Speaker 1: he had to go up in front of the like, uh, 2411 02:22:04,600 --> 02:22:06,040 Speaker 1: he had to go to the sheriff's office to go 2412 02:22:06,120 --> 02:22:08,320 Speaker 1: up in front of like a four Some states have 2413 02:22:08,440 --> 02:22:11,920 Speaker 1: that Connecticut. This is a long time, but yeah, yeah, 2414 02:22:11,920 --> 02:22:13,600 Speaker 1: he had to go and uh and he went from 2415 02:22:13,640 --> 02:22:14,880 Speaker 1: I can't remember who it was, but like he went 2416 02:22:14,920 --> 02:22:16,680 Speaker 1: down the sheriff's office and they had a panel of 2417 02:22:16,720 --> 02:22:19,920 Speaker 1: people with the conduct a little interview and he got 2418 02:22:20,080 --> 02:22:23,560 Speaker 1: a he got his his concealed carrier, I remember, and 2419 02:22:23,560 --> 02:22:27,160 Speaker 1: then but the only thing he had with the twenty two. 2420 02:22:27,280 --> 02:22:29,400 Speaker 1: To buy my first handgun in North Carolina, I had 2421 02:22:29,400 --> 02:22:31,720 Speaker 1: to get permission from the county sheriff to buy just 2422 02:22:31,760 --> 02:22:35,440 Speaker 1: to buy a handgun. Lots changes. Yeah, only what do 2423 02:22:35,480 --> 02:22:38,560 Speaker 1: you got, man? I guess The one thing we haven't 2424 02:22:38,640 --> 02:22:40,640 Speaker 1: touched on, maybe we could touch on is what's UH 2425 02:22:40,760 --> 02:22:47,320 Speaker 1: the NSF doing in a proactive way about gun violence. So, actually, 2426 02:22:47,320 --> 02:22:51,240 Speaker 1: the industry is the long history of of having real 2427 02:22:51,320 --> 02:22:55,520 Speaker 1: solutions and pursuing initiatives that you know, will we think 2428 02:22:56,320 --> 02:23:00,320 Speaker 1: make for saying for communities. UH So one exam apple 2429 02:23:00,879 --> 02:23:05,280 Speaker 1: is um our Project Child Safe campaign, which we've been 2430 02:23:05,280 --> 02:23:11,280 Speaker 1: doing since about n where we the industry distribute UM 2431 02:23:11,520 --> 02:23:15,200 Speaker 1: firearm safety education kits that include a free gunlock, a 2432 02:23:15,240 --> 02:23:18,840 Speaker 1: cable style gunlock which fits the most number of actions. 2433 02:23:20,400 --> 02:23:24,080 Speaker 1: We've distributed ready for this over thirty eight million kits, 2434 02:23:24,600 --> 02:23:28,720 Speaker 1: thirty eight million locks in every state and US territory, 2435 02:23:29,000 --> 02:23:33,560 Speaker 1: partnering with over fifteen thousand local law enforcement agencies as 2436 02:23:33,560 --> 02:23:37,439 Speaker 1: our distribution partner. We're very proud of that. We continue 2437 02:23:37,480 --> 02:23:41,279 Speaker 1: to do that and as adjunct to that, since UH 2438 02:23:42,560 --> 02:23:47,920 Speaker 1: ninety six ninety seven, manufacturers have been providing a locking 2439 02:23:47,920 --> 02:23:51,560 Speaker 1: device with each new firearm that they shipped from the factory. 2440 02:23:52,240 --> 02:23:54,720 Speaker 1: So between the two it's well over a hundred million 2441 02:23:55,920 --> 02:23:58,360 Speaker 1: locks distributed around the country. And so how would you 2442 02:23:58,360 --> 02:24:00,800 Speaker 1: participate in the first one? You just go down. So 2443 02:24:00,600 --> 02:24:04,199 Speaker 1: we get requests all the time. In fact, the demand 2444 02:24:04,760 --> 02:24:08,800 Speaker 1: outstrips the supply of locks by three to one. Law 2445 02:24:08,879 --> 02:24:11,480 Speaker 1: enforcement agencies know about the program all of the country 2446 02:24:11,520 --> 02:24:13,480 Speaker 1: that calls say hey, can we get you know, some locks. 2447 02:24:13,520 --> 02:24:16,360 Speaker 1: We're gonna do a you know, a community event, We're 2448 02:24:16,400 --> 02:24:19,039 Speaker 1: gonna do a safety program. We want to distribute these 2449 02:24:21,080 --> 02:24:24,320 Speaker 1: uh gunshot. When I was in Seattle, they would do 2450 02:24:24,400 --> 02:24:28,280 Speaker 1: project up there, right, So we're really really proud of that. 2451 02:24:28,360 --> 02:24:32,360 Speaker 1: And not exclusively, but I think we've helped contribute to 2452 02:24:32,440 --> 02:24:37,879 Speaker 1: the decline and accidents involving firearms UM. You know, accidental 2453 02:24:37,920 --> 02:24:41,360 Speaker 1: deaths involving firearms is UM at the lowest level it's 2454 02:24:41,360 --> 02:24:44,200 Speaker 1: ever been since record keeping began in nineteen o three. 2455 02:24:44,240 --> 02:24:48,480 Speaker 1: It's incredibly rare, particularly for children. You know, there are 2456 02:24:48,520 --> 02:24:51,879 Speaker 1: some states that don't have any accidents involving children. Accidental 2457 02:24:51,959 --> 02:24:56,160 Speaker 1: death voming farms. You far more likely UM to die from, 2458 02:24:56,400 --> 02:25:00,400 Speaker 1: you know, a host of other causes, drowning, fires, reasoning 2459 02:25:00,840 --> 02:25:05,000 Speaker 1: that you're um, you know, with an accident involving a firearm, 2460 02:25:05,120 --> 02:25:08,160 Speaker 1: it makes news when it happens, right, even involves a child. 2461 02:25:08,240 --> 02:25:10,960 Speaker 1: But and but so we distribute these locks. That's one 2462 02:25:10,959 --> 02:25:13,760 Speaker 1: program we do. We also have been doing with a 2463 02:25:13,840 --> 02:25:18,560 Speaker 1: t F since campaign we called Don't Lie for the 2464 02:25:18,560 --> 02:25:22,560 Speaker 1: Other Guy. That is to assist law enforcement in educating 2465 02:25:22,560 --> 02:25:25,280 Speaker 1: and training retailers UH and their staff on how to 2466 02:25:25,320 --> 02:25:30,280 Speaker 1: be better able to identify and prevent illegal straw purchases UH. 2467 02:25:30,320 --> 02:25:33,880 Speaker 1: And then a public service announcement component to the program 2468 02:25:33,920 --> 02:25:36,560 Speaker 1: to get the word out in the community that it's 2469 02:25:36,600 --> 02:25:38,600 Speaker 1: a serious crime to buy a gun for somebody else 2470 02:25:38,600 --> 02:25:41,080 Speaker 1: who can't UM and that if you do that, you know, 2471 02:25:41,200 --> 02:25:45,600 Speaker 1: you lie on the three UH, that it's a felony. 2472 02:25:45,680 --> 02:25:47,240 Speaker 1: You can go to prison for ten years and you 2473 02:25:47,280 --> 02:25:49,240 Speaker 1: get a fine of up to a quarter million dollars. 2474 02:25:49,600 --> 02:25:51,560 Speaker 1: For those of you that have never filled out that form, 2475 02:25:51,680 --> 02:25:56,400 Speaker 1: the question is basically that you're are you the actual yeah, 2476 02:25:56,600 --> 02:25:59,640 Speaker 1: and if you're not UM, the actual buyer, it's not 2477 02:25:59,640 --> 02:26:06,240 Speaker 1: actually for you. So you're you know, UH, your fell 2478 02:26:06,360 --> 02:26:09,000 Speaker 1: and boyfriend gets out of prison and wants, you know, 2479 02:26:09,080 --> 02:26:11,800 Speaker 1: and convince his uh, you know, his girlfriend to go 2480 02:26:11,879 --> 02:26:13,960 Speaker 1: into a store and buy a handgun for him because 2481 02:26:14,000 --> 02:26:16,000 Speaker 1: he's gonna use it to go rob the seven eleven. 2482 02:26:16,400 --> 02:26:18,880 Speaker 1: And she says, I'm the actual buyer. That's a crime 2483 02:26:19,280 --> 02:26:23,439 Speaker 1: and you can go to prison for that, and so um. 2484 02:26:23,520 --> 02:26:25,240 Speaker 1: You know, we've been doing that campaign for a long 2485 02:26:25,320 --> 02:26:28,800 Speaker 1: time with a t F as our partner. There's educational 2486 02:26:28,879 --> 02:26:32,640 Speaker 1: material for the retailer to to you know, help educate 2487 02:26:32,680 --> 02:26:34,320 Speaker 1: their staff want to be on the lookout for what 2488 02:26:34,440 --> 02:26:36,560 Speaker 1: kind of questions to ask I mean, and it can 2489 02:26:36,600 --> 02:26:40,480 Speaker 1: be very difficult for the the retailer to discern if 2490 02:26:40,480 --> 02:26:42,760 Speaker 1: somebody comes in and fills out the form and that 2491 02:26:42,959 --> 02:26:46,160 Speaker 1: doesn't go anything that would cause you to be suspicious. Um. 2492 02:26:46,200 --> 02:26:48,640 Speaker 1: But again, also we have the public awareness campaign to 2493 02:26:48,680 --> 02:26:51,360 Speaker 1: tell the would be strung purchaser long before they were 2494 02:26:51,400 --> 02:26:53,840 Speaker 1: walking to the store that you know, don't lie for 2495 02:26:53,879 --> 02:26:55,680 Speaker 1: the other guy. You can go to prison. So that's 2496 02:26:55,680 --> 02:26:57,360 Speaker 1: another program we've even do it for a long time, 2497 02:26:57,520 --> 02:27:00,520 Speaker 1: very successful, you know, the national camp, We've done it 2498 02:27:00,560 --> 02:27:04,080 Speaker 1: all over the country. We've distributed the kits, the retailer 2499 02:27:04,120 --> 02:27:07,240 Speaker 1: education kits to every retailer in the country free. You 2500 02:27:07,280 --> 02:27:09,920 Speaker 1: know you want one, we'll send it, you know. We 2501 02:27:09,920 --> 02:27:12,880 Speaker 1: we make it available at the dealer educational summars we 2502 02:27:12,959 --> 02:27:14,560 Speaker 1: go on at the shot show and things like that. 2503 02:27:15,600 --> 02:27:18,039 Speaker 1: We're also we talked about the Fixed Next campaign. We're 2504 02:27:18,120 --> 02:27:21,320 Speaker 1: very proud of that. UM, you know, that's that's been 2505 02:27:21,480 --> 02:27:25,400 Speaker 1: great success. We're now partnering with a t F and 2506 02:27:25,480 --> 02:27:29,320 Speaker 1: another initiative called Operations Secure Store. So a t F 2507 02:27:29,440 --> 02:27:32,039 Speaker 1: came to us a little while back and and and 2508 02:27:32,360 --> 02:27:36,800 Speaker 1: identified a troubling trend where burglaries of gun stores were 2509 02:27:36,840 --> 02:27:40,360 Speaker 1: on the rise and they were stealing you know, more 2510 02:27:40,360 --> 02:27:44,240 Speaker 1: and more guns from these burglaries. Uh, you know, some 2511 02:27:44,320 --> 02:27:49,080 Speaker 1: pretty significant increase primarily gang activity. Um, the you know, 2512 02:27:49,160 --> 02:27:51,920 Speaker 1: sevent guns that they were stealing, their handguns and those 2513 02:27:51,959 --> 02:27:54,560 Speaker 1: guns hit the street and it's not you know, these 2514 02:27:54,560 --> 02:27:57,680 Speaker 1: are bad guys. And so we've been working with a 2515 02:27:57,760 --> 02:28:01,440 Speaker 1: TF on Operations Secure Store to raise awareness within the 2516 02:28:01,480 --> 02:28:06,080 Speaker 1: dealer community. You know that this can happen to you. Um, 2517 02:28:06,959 --> 02:28:09,560 Speaker 1: and you know what steps can you take that are 2518 02:28:09,600 --> 02:28:13,959 Speaker 1: appropriate for your business to reduce the risk, Like can 2519 02:28:14,040 --> 02:28:15,879 Speaker 1: you put the guns away in a gun save? Can 2520 02:28:15,920 --> 02:28:20,440 Speaker 1: you put put them in smash resistant display cases. You know, 2521 02:28:20,640 --> 02:28:25,880 Speaker 1: have you know closed circuit you know TV monitors and 2522 02:28:25,959 --> 02:28:29,480 Speaker 1: cameras and make sure you've got you know, solid locks 2523 02:28:29,480 --> 02:28:31,240 Speaker 1: on your doors and things like that. But I mean 2524 02:28:31,280 --> 02:28:35,520 Speaker 1: it's it's um. You know. What we see is, you know, 2525 02:28:36,200 --> 02:28:39,160 Speaker 1: the bad guys will take a truck, steal a truck 2526 02:28:39,200 --> 02:28:41,320 Speaker 1: and drive it right through the front door. Or you 2527 02:28:41,400 --> 02:28:44,240 Speaker 1: got bars and gates on the window, or ballard's in front, 2528 02:28:44,280 --> 02:28:46,560 Speaker 1: they'll just hook up a chain, put it on it 2529 02:28:46,840 --> 02:28:48,760 Speaker 1: and blow it right off. Or they come in from 2530 02:28:48,800 --> 02:28:51,600 Speaker 1: they'll breaking to the nail salon or something next door 2531 02:28:51,640 --> 02:28:54,680 Speaker 1: and they'll go intrough the wall. They'll just punch through 2532 02:28:54,680 --> 02:28:57,240 Speaker 1: the wall or through the roof. I mean all kinds 2533 02:28:57,280 --> 02:28:59,640 Speaker 1: of you know ways of getting in there in and 2534 02:28:59,680 --> 02:29:01,680 Speaker 1: out a short period of time and steal you know, 2535 02:29:01,680 --> 02:29:04,600 Speaker 1: a lot can steal a lot of guns. Fortunately, the 2536 02:29:04,640 --> 02:29:08,480 Speaker 1: most recent information that we gotten with a TF is 2537 02:29:08,959 --> 02:29:12,120 Speaker 1: that you know, we've bent the curve and the rate 2538 02:29:12,160 --> 02:29:14,039 Speaker 1: of these are starting to go down. The number of 2539 02:29:14,040 --> 02:29:17,800 Speaker 1: guns stolen starting to go down, and ATF believes that's 2540 02:29:18,040 --> 02:29:20,720 Speaker 1: been in part to the cooperative effort to get the 2541 02:29:20,720 --> 02:29:25,000 Speaker 1: word out the dealers that they're reacting in a responsible 2542 02:29:25,040 --> 02:29:28,200 Speaker 1: way to protect their inventory from being stolen. I mean, 2543 02:29:28,280 --> 02:29:31,119 Speaker 1: I really applaud a t F whenever this occurs. They respond, 2544 02:29:31,320 --> 02:29:34,279 Speaker 1: even if it's one gun that stolen, they come in force, 2545 02:29:34,840 --> 02:29:38,000 Speaker 1: they respond right away, They work with the retailer, you know, 2546 02:29:38,040 --> 02:29:40,120 Speaker 1: and they try to recover the guns as quickly as 2547 02:29:40,120 --> 02:29:43,160 Speaker 1: they can. And as part of this effort, if at 2548 02:29:43,280 --> 02:29:45,720 Speaker 1: F puts out a reward for information and a SECEPH 2549 02:29:45,720 --> 02:29:47,959 Speaker 1: will max that reward, so instead of like a five 2550 02:29:48,000 --> 02:29:52,160 Speaker 1: thousand dollar reward, it's now ten thousand. And that's a 2551 02:29:52,240 --> 02:29:55,160 Speaker 1: check I don't mind writing, you know, um, And we 2552 02:29:55,200 --> 02:29:57,800 Speaker 1: do write those checks from time to time. But we 2553 02:29:57,800 --> 02:30:00,520 Speaker 1: are happy to do that because it means getting the 2554 02:30:00,560 --> 02:30:02,640 Speaker 1: bad guys and we're very happy to see when these 2555 02:30:02,640 --> 02:30:05,920 Speaker 1: guys get sentenced. Uh, you know, they really get uh, 2556 02:30:06,200 --> 02:30:07,800 Speaker 1: they get hammered. Did you just put them away for 2557 02:30:07,800 --> 02:30:11,640 Speaker 1: a long time. As part of that, on the NSSF side, 2558 02:30:12,000 --> 02:30:17,520 Speaker 1: we're supporting legislation called the Farms the Federal Farms Licensee 2559 02:30:17,560 --> 02:30:21,960 Speaker 1: Protection Act, which would increase the maximum penalty that someone 2560 02:30:21,959 --> 02:30:25,519 Speaker 1: could get in prison for stealing guns from a licensee 2561 02:30:25,520 --> 02:30:29,160 Speaker 1: from ten years to twenty years and impost mandatory minimums 2562 02:30:29,160 --> 02:30:34,359 Speaker 1: for burglaries and robberies. Robberies fortunately are still pretty rare. UM, 2563 02:30:34,480 --> 02:30:38,240 Speaker 1: but you know, we've seen homicides of retailers in the 2564 02:30:38,240 --> 02:30:41,920 Speaker 1: commission of a robbery. UM, so that's concerning, and we 2565 02:30:42,040 --> 02:30:44,960 Speaker 1: worry that, you know, if you're sort of hard in 2566 02:30:45,040 --> 02:30:47,240 Speaker 1: the store, then they'll just come in during the daytime 2567 02:30:47,240 --> 02:30:49,360 Speaker 1: and come in a robbery. So we're really worried about that. 2568 02:30:49,400 --> 02:30:51,440 Speaker 1: Although you would think rapping a gun shop would be 2569 02:30:51,440 --> 02:30:55,680 Speaker 1: a special kind of stupid, but it does happen. Uh, fortunately, 2570 02:30:55,760 --> 02:31:00,000 Speaker 1: pretty rare. So we're working on that legislation. It's um 2571 02:31:00,480 --> 02:31:02,039 Speaker 1: you know, we hope to have it reintroduced in the 2572 02:31:02,080 --> 02:31:06,200 Speaker 1: House soon and Centatogram introduced the letter legislation in the 2573 02:31:06,200 --> 02:31:09,560 Speaker 1: past and the Senate, and we believe he'll reintroduce it again. 2574 02:31:09,600 --> 02:31:11,640 Speaker 1: We're trying to build support for that. We think that's 2575 02:31:11,640 --> 02:31:13,920 Speaker 1: a you know, that's not a gun control bill, that's 2576 02:31:13,959 --> 02:31:16,680 Speaker 1: a pro law enforcement, pro safety bill. The support of 2577 02:31:16,720 --> 02:31:19,760 Speaker 1: all the major law enforcement groups in the country behind that, 2578 02:31:19,800 --> 02:31:22,480 Speaker 1: so we're really really proud of that. And the other newer, 2579 02:31:22,840 --> 02:31:25,280 Speaker 1: fairly new initiative we've been working on is with the 2580 02:31:25,320 --> 02:31:29,920 Speaker 1: American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, which is the largest suicide 2581 02:31:29,920 --> 02:31:33,039 Speaker 1: prevention organization in the country, but they actually came to 2582 02:31:33,160 --> 02:31:36,760 Speaker 1: us to partner with us to try to help address 2583 02:31:36,800 --> 02:31:40,240 Speaker 1: the issue. And I think you probably know about six 2584 02:31:40,680 --> 02:31:46,680 Speaker 1: six of gun deaths are suicides, and so that's you know, 2585 02:31:47,200 --> 02:31:49,680 Speaker 1: most people don't even hear, like you know X number 2586 02:31:49,720 --> 02:31:55,160 Speaker 1: of gun deaths. Two thirds of those are our suicides UM, 2587 02:31:55,200 --> 02:31:59,560 Speaker 1: which is a terrible, terrible thing. UH suicides of all 2588 02:31:59,600 --> 02:32:04,160 Speaker 1: the fire arm and when a firearm is used commit suicide, 2589 02:32:04,200 --> 02:32:10,440 Speaker 1: it's it's lethal and effective about the time. So the 2590 02:32:10,480 --> 02:32:13,480 Speaker 1: American Foundation for Suicide Prevention as a goal that we're 2591 02:32:13,520 --> 02:32:17,119 Speaker 1: helping them to reach, they want to reduce UM suicides 2592 02:32:17,160 --> 02:32:21,120 Speaker 1: by and the only way they can impact that or 2593 02:32:21,200 --> 02:32:24,520 Speaker 1: reach that goal is by addressing firearms related suicides because 2594 02:32:24,560 --> 02:32:27,520 Speaker 1: of so many of them are committed with are done 2595 02:32:27,520 --> 02:32:30,600 Speaker 1: with firearms. So we're working with them to get information 2596 02:32:30,640 --> 02:32:34,320 Speaker 1: out to ranges and retailers UM. You know through that 2597 02:32:34,440 --> 02:32:37,360 Speaker 1: they have state chapters and we're in our outreach to 2598 02:32:37,400 --> 02:32:40,240 Speaker 1: our members and other even non member retails. Give it 2599 02:32:40,280 --> 02:32:43,480 Speaker 1: to anybody, you know how you know, what are the 2600 02:32:43,480 --> 02:32:46,120 Speaker 1: things you can be on the lookout for. You know, 2601 02:32:46,280 --> 02:32:49,200 Speaker 1: what do you do if it happens, and unfortunately ran 2602 02:32:49,320 --> 02:32:51,360 Speaker 1: you see it happening at ranges from time to time, 2603 02:32:52,000 --> 02:32:55,000 Speaker 1: and it's very troubling for the people who work at 2604 02:32:55,000 --> 02:32:58,520 Speaker 1: the range. When this happens. It's very difficult. I mean 2605 02:32:58,560 --> 02:33:02,520 Speaker 1: it's um you know, uh most of the time the 2606 02:33:02,600 --> 02:33:05,160 Speaker 1: person doesn't you know they're coming where in a sign obviously, 2607 02:33:05,280 --> 02:33:09,400 Speaker 1: so it's a challenge, but it encourages people, not you know, 2608 02:33:09,440 --> 02:33:12,320 Speaker 1: gun owners, you know, information that goes across the counter 2609 02:33:12,360 --> 02:33:15,600 Speaker 1: to the consumer to have that difficult conversation. If you 2610 02:33:15,640 --> 02:33:18,879 Speaker 1: see somebody you know, you're close with, a family member 2611 02:33:18,959 --> 02:33:23,680 Speaker 1: or friend, do you think is struggling that might be depressed, Um, 2612 02:33:23,959 --> 02:33:28,640 Speaker 1: had a death in the family, you know, bad news 2613 02:33:28,640 --> 02:33:31,039 Speaker 1: on medical or the lost their job or something like that. 2614 02:33:31,080 --> 02:33:34,800 Speaker 1: Are just struggling financially, you know, to reach out to 2615 02:33:35,000 --> 02:33:38,240 Speaker 1: offer assistance to you know, trying to point them in 2616 02:33:38,240 --> 02:33:40,000 Speaker 1: a direction where they can get help. I mean there's 2617 02:33:40,040 --> 02:33:42,560 Speaker 1: lots of suicide prevention hotlines and things like that. So 2618 02:33:42,720 --> 02:33:46,240 Speaker 1: just to try to encourage people to have that conversation 2619 02:33:47,240 --> 02:33:50,080 Speaker 1: if somebody is struggling, you know, maybe it's somebody in 2620 02:33:50,080 --> 02:33:52,879 Speaker 1: your family. You know, if your firearms aren't locked up 2621 02:33:52,879 --> 02:33:55,560 Speaker 1: when not in use. You know, maybe you should do that, 2622 02:33:55,680 --> 02:33:58,880 Speaker 1: maybe you should take the firearms, offer to take the 2623 02:33:58,920 --> 02:34:01,080 Speaker 1: firearms from somebody if they're you know, and a lot 2624 02:34:01,120 --> 02:34:03,360 Speaker 1: of times we hear that people say, yeah, just take 2625 02:34:03,400 --> 02:34:06,240 Speaker 1: them for me, like because I'm in a you know, 2626 02:34:06,280 --> 02:34:08,920 Speaker 1: in a dark place or whatever. So you know, just 2627 02:34:09,040 --> 02:34:12,480 Speaker 1: encouraging people to have that conversation, to offer help, try 2628 02:34:12,520 --> 02:34:15,320 Speaker 1: to just make sure that firearms are not you know, 2629 02:34:15,440 --> 02:34:18,440 Speaker 1: you want to reduce access to lethal means. And that's 2630 02:34:18,440 --> 02:34:20,879 Speaker 1: what's really about working with the Veterans Administration and the 2631 02:34:20,920 --> 02:34:24,560 Speaker 1: same thing obviously we all know about, you know, returning 2632 02:34:24,600 --> 02:34:29,199 Speaker 1: veterans twenty two days commit suicide, again often with firearms. 2633 02:34:29,480 --> 02:34:32,199 Speaker 1: So we're working with the Veterans Administration on suicide prevention 2634 02:34:32,240 --> 02:34:35,039 Speaker 1: as well. We work with them in the past with 2635 02:34:35,160 --> 02:34:38,480 Speaker 1: Child Safe and provided you know, hundreds of thousands of 2636 02:34:39,320 --> 02:34:42,200 Speaker 1: Project Child Safe kids to the Veterans Administration that and 2637 02:34:42,200 --> 02:34:44,240 Speaker 1: they gave them to returning vets when we were drawing 2638 02:34:44,240 --> 02:34:47,320 Speaker 1: down from from Iroq and Afghanistan and big numbers, so 2639 02:34:47,320 --> 02:34:49,560 Speaker 1: we're very proud of that. And and you we're continuing 2640 02:34:49,600 --> 02:34:52,520 Speaker 1: to work with them on on their new initiative to 2641 02:34:52,560 --> 02:34:55,800 Speaker 1: try to help address the suicide issue with veterans, So 2642 02:34:55,840 --> 02:34:59,360 Speaker 1: it's you know, kind of teaming up with and we're 2643 02:34:59,720 --> 02:35:04,240 Speaker 1: at are UM the shooting at the school in UH, 2644 02:35:04,520 --> 02:35:09,400 Speaker 1: Texas in Santa Fe. We work with the Governor's office 2645 02:35:09,520 --> 02:35:12,119 Speaker 1: to bring child Safe to the state, and we've actually 2646 02:35:12,120 --> 02:35:14,280 Speaker 1: received a million dollar grant or in the process of 2647 02:35:14,320 --> 02:35:16,920 Speaker 1: receiving a million dollar grant from the State of Texas 2648 02:35:16,920 --> 02:35:19,320 Speaker 1: to run Project Child Safe in the state of Texas 2649 02:35:19,600 --> 02:35:23,480 Speaker 1: as part of Governor Abbott's response to that tragedy. So 2650 02:35:23,560 --> 02:35:25,120 Speaker 1: we we we do a lot. I mean, you know, 2651 02:35:25,120 --> 02:35:27,959 Speaker 1: people don't know we do these things. I mean we're 2652 02:35:27,959 --> 02:35:31,760 Speaker 1: you know, but we're trying to make sure policymakers understand 2653 02:35:31,760 --> 02:35:35,680 Speaker 1: that the industry is proactive pursuing real solutions to make 2654 02:35:36,080 --> 02:35:39,680 Speaker 1: for safer communities. I also having a conversation there a 2655 02:35:39,760 --> 02:35:43,360 Speaker 1: night about UH suicide and I've lost a very close 2656 02:35:43,400 --> 02:35:46,320 Speaker 1: friend and our our our body j recently lost a 2657 02:35:46,320 --> 02:35:50,840 Speaker 1: close friend and he was saying that to the annoyance 2658 02:35:50,879 --> 02:35:55,760 Speaker 1: of his other friends. Now he's always checking in with 2659 02:35:55,800 --> 02:36:01,160 Speaker 1: people and pushing a little bit how you doing, how 2660 02:36:01,200 --> 02:36:03,280 Speaker 1: you really doing, because he says now he was so 2661 02:36:03,440 --> 02:36:08,880 Speaker 1: blindsided by it UM that he's nervous now of like 2662 02:36:08,959 --> 02:36:14,119 Speaker 1: missing missing cues among his friends and colleagues. He said 2663 02:36:14,120 --> 02:36:16,160 Speaker 1: it made him like he now lives in this world, 2664 02:36:16,160 --> 02:36:18,920 Speaker 1: have been like very aware of where where people are 2665 02:36:18,959 --> 02:36:21,520 Speaker 1: around you. Yeah, you hear that, Like people say, I 2666 02:36:21,600 --> 02:36:25,480 Speaker 1: never knew, I wish I had asked, I wish I knew. Yeah, 2667 02:36:25,800 --> 02:36:27,600 Speaker 1: he wonders if he had missed something, and he doesn't 2668 02:36:27,600 --> 02:36:30,000 Speaker 1: want to miss something next time, you know, And look 2669 02:36:30,520 --> 02:36:33,600 Speaker 1: a lot of times it's the person that chooses to 2670 02:36:33,640 --> 02:36:36,960 Speaker 1: do this. It's their own firearms. So there, you know, 2671 02:36:37,520 --> 02:36:40,959 Speaker 1: limitations is what you can do. But you know, if 2672 02:36:41,080 --> 02:36:46,240 Speaker 1: you're the you know, uh parent and you've got you know, 2673 02:36:46,600 --> 02:36:49,800 Speaker 1: a young adult or a teenager in the house, and 2674 02:36:50,600 --> 02:36:53,360 Speaker 1: you know you think that it might be an issue, 2675 02:36:53,800 --> 02:36:57,080 Speaker 1: make sure you firearms are secured and not accessible, you know, 2676 02:36:57,160 --> 02:36:59,200 Speaker 1: make sure the keys aren't out there or they or 2677 02:36:59,200 --> 02:37:01,280 Speaker 1: they don't know the common nation or or even like 2678 02:37:01,560 --> 02:37:04,600 Speaker 1: you know, have your body hold the firearms and you know, 2679 02:37:04,680 --> 02:37:06,959 Speaker 1: if you think and that's not anti gun, right, we're 2680 02:37:06,959 --> 02:37:10,040 Speaker 1: not saying bad guys. We're not saying just be responsible. 2681 02:37:10,200 --> 02:37:13,800 Speaker 1: That's person that's like common sense personal storage stuff, I mean, 2682 02:37:14,160 --> 02:37:17,960 Speaker 1: like our personal choice. We once we had young kids. 2683 02:37:18,200 --> 02:37:19,560 Speaker 1: I don't want to say that I didn't used to 2684 02:37:19,600 --> 02:37:22,440 Speaker 1: store guns carelessly because it was things that were in 2685 02:37:22,480 --> 02:37:25,600 Speaker 1: my own secure home. We're just grown ups living at 2686 02:37:25,640 --> 02:37:29,400 Speaker 1: home in a home. Once we had kids, different story, yeah, 2687 02:37:29,400 --> 02:37:32,520 Speaker 1: because they're very like, you know, they're really interested in 2688 02:37:32,600 --> 02:37:34,959 Speaker 1: what their dad's interested in, and so we had to 2689 02:37:35,000 --> 02:37:38,560 Speaker 1: adopt um for now we have a four year old, 2690 02:37:38,680 --> 02:37:40,840 Speaker 1: six year old, eight year old, we had to adopt 2691 02:37:40,840 --> 02:37:44,039 Speaker 1: a pretty I don't want to say rigid, but we 2692 02:37:44,080 --> 02:37:48,200 Speaker 1: we adopt a system that's twofold, where we do a 2693 02:37:48,280 --> 02:37:52,240 Speaker 1: locked cabinet and an in the locked cabinet, we do 2694 02:37:52,320 --> 02:37:55,000 Speaker 1: trigger locks. And it's and it took a while to 2695 02:37:55,080 --> 02:37:59,160 Speaker 1: train myself to not be lazy now and then, because 2696 02:37:59,160 --> 02:38:01,800 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, yeah, you're in a situation where you're 2697 02:38:01,800 --> 02:38:04,720 Speaker 1: working on something or cleaning it, and then something comes 2698 02:38:04,800 --> 02:38:06,480 Speaker 1: up and you gotta go do something and like force 2699 02:38:06,520 --> 02:38:09,360 Speaker 1: yourself to stick to your own system that you have 2700 02:38:09,400 --> 02:38:11,360 Speaker 1: put in place when you have young kids around. And 2701 02:38:11,560 --> 02:38:13,160 Speaker 1: that's the thing. That's the thing I like about Project 2702 02:38:13,200 --> 02:38:17,039 Speaker 1: Child Safe. It's like you're speaking to gun owners but 2703 02:38:17,120 --> 02:38:20,039 Speaker 1: in friendly terms and not you're you're coming at them 2704 02:38:20,040 --> 02:38:25,040 Speaker 1: from friendly terms and not like condemning what their decisions 2705 02:38:25,080 --> 02:38:28,480 Speaker 1: they've made are condemning them as a person. But you're saying, like, 2706 02:38:28,600 --> 02:38:32,400 Speaker 1: I understand where you're at. Um, here are some tools 2707 02:38:32,440 --> 02:38:36,440 Speaker 1: and practices to achieve what I know, And there's no 2708 02:38:36,480 --> 02:38:39,400 Speaker 1: one ice fits all. I mean, if someone has a 2709 02:38:39,440 --> 02:38:43,960 Speaker 1: firearm that's for personal protection and they wanted accessible, then 2710 02:38:44,000 --> 02:38:46,840 Speaker 1: there are ways you can approach that. You know, um, 2711 02:38:46,879 --> 02:38:52,400 Speaker 1: a lockbox, quick access lockbox, coming biometrics now or combinations, 2712 02:38:52,680 --> 02:38:56,400 Speaker 1: and that's one approach. But every firearm is capable of 2713 02:38:56,440 --> 02:38:59,520 Speaker 1: being secured right one way or another. Just yeah, there's 2714 02:38:59,560 --> 02:39:02,200 Speaker 1: plenty of way. There's plenty of ways for families to 2715 02:39:02,240 --> 02:39:04,560 Speaker 1: find assistant that works for them. And I think just 2716 02:39:04,600 --> 02:39:06,680 Speaker 1: the simple fact that you're aware of the issue and 2717 02:39:06,760 --> 02:39:09,879 Speaker 1: thinking about it um is a step in the right direction. 2718 02:39:10,520 --> 02:39:13,879 Speaker 1: The great irony recently that we've seen with it with 2719 02:39:14,520 --> 02:39:18,320 Speaker 1: I guess flattery is what does that they say about 2720 02:39:18,400 --> 02:39:21,920 Speaker 1: you of them? Invitation is the greatest form of flattery. 2721 02:39:22,200 --> 02:39:24,640 Speaker 1: What we have seen, it's not really this isn't really 2722 02:39:24,879 --> 02:39:30,080 Speaker 1: uh imitation, But what we've seen is UH gun control 2723 02:39:30,120 --> 02:39:35,920 Speaker 1: groups like Mom's Demand Action, getting Project Child Safe locks 2724 02:39:35,959 --> 02:39:40,400 Speaker 1: from the local police department and then like packaging them 2725 02:39:40,400 --> 02:39:44,720 Speaker 1: with their anti gun literature and distributing the house. Yeah, 2726 02:39:44,760 --> 02:39:46,760 Speaker 1: and like taking pictures and being proud of it. And 2727 02:39:46,800 --> 02:39:50,560 Speaker 1: we've like had to go back to our lawforce partners say, 2728 02:39:50,600 --> 02:39:53,720 Speaker 1: you know, that's not really what this is about, right, 2729 02:39:53,760 --> 02:39:56,440 Speaker 1: Like we we appreciate that they care about safety. And 2730 02:39:56,440 --> 02:40:00,000 Speaker 1: it's pretty ironic because here's a group that's funded by 2731 02:40:00,280 --> 02:40:03,200 Speaker 1: a multibillionaire and we say all the time, you know, 2732 02:40:03,240 --> 02:40:05,959 Speaker 1: the gun control groups, they don't have any programs, they 2733 02:40:06,000 --> 02:40:08,560 Speaker 1: just you know, they don't they don't actually do anything. 2734 02:40:09,080 --> 02:40:11,840 Speaker 1: They don't have a gun say, any gun safety initiatives. 2735 02:40:12,200 --> 02:40:14,240 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons child safety is I think 2736 02:40:14,320 --> 02:40:18,920 Speaker 1: so successful and why this American Foundation for Suicide per 2737 02:40:18,920 --> 02:40:22,400 Speaker 1: Inventions approached us is you know, as the industry, we have, 2738 02:40:22,560 --> 02:40:25,680 Speaker 1: we have license to talk to gun owners. Right, they'll 2739 02:40:25,680 --> 02:40:30,160 Speaker 1: listen to us. Right. Many if if a gun control group, 2740 02:40:30,240 --> 02:40:32,560 Speaker 1: you know, hands out a lock, it's gonna you know, 2741 02:40:33,240 --> 02:40:35,080 Speaker 1: they don't they don't want to lock on the gun. 2742 02:40:35,080 --> 02:40:37,000 Speaker 1: They don't want the gun, right like they say, get 2743 02:40:37,000 --> 02:40:39,760 Speaker 1: the gun. There should be guns in the house. But 2744 02:40:40,200 --> 02:40:43,760 Speaker 1: so in American Foundation for Suicide Perfences, like you know, 2745 02:40:45,160 --> 02:40:47,400 Speaker 1: we need you guts. We need your help to communicate 2746 02:40:47,440 --> 02:40:49,760 Speaker 1: the gun owners. How do we communicate the gun owners? 2747 02:40:50,200 --> 02:40:53,199 Speaker 1: How do we get this mentions across without offending them 2748 02:40:53,320 --> 02:40:55,720 Speaker 1: or turning them off? You know, so that they will 2749 02:40:55,800 --> 02:40:58,920 Speaker 1: listen to the message? Uh, you know, and and so 2750 02:40:59,000 --> 02:41:02,760 Speaker 1: that's you know why I think that program is successful 2751 02:41:02,800 --> 02:41:08,240 Speaker 1: and we'll be successful. Yeah, it's a good one. All right, 2752 02:41:08,240 --> 02:41:10,160 Speaker 1: we've taken up a ton of your time. That's all right. 2753 02:41:10,640 --> 02:41:15,039 Speaker 1: We have a thing called concluders. Pivot to the conclusion. 2754 02:41:15,160 --> 02:41:16,400 Speaker 1: Do you want to conclude, you want to throw it. 2755 02:41:16,959 --> 02:41:18,800 Speaker 1: It's not mandatory. You don't need to do a concluder. 2756 02:41:18,879 --> 02:41:21,119 Speaker 1: That was a good conversation to spend time with you. 2757 02:41:21,360 --> 02:41:24,440 Speaker 1: We got to visit very briefly in New Hampshire at 2758 02:41:24,480 --> 02:41:28,480 Speaker 1: that conference, but but that's the first time we've really 2759 02:41:28,480 --> 02:41:31,000 Speaker 1: had a chance to have a conversation. So I welcome. 2760 02:41:31,040 --> 02:41:37,400 Speaker 1: It's fun. That's your Concluderay, my concluder. Yeah, I'm gonna 2761 02:41:37,480 --> 02:41:40,120 Speaker 1: reciprocate with my concluder. And I'm really glad that you 2762 02:41:40,160 --> 02:41:42,600 Speaker 1: were able to take time and walk through a lot 2763 02:41:42,640 --> 02:41:43,880 Speaker 1: of this stuff. I think we covered a lot of 2764 02:41:43,879 --> 02:41:47,120 Speaker 1: things that are probably pretty unfamiliar. Yeah, that's oh, Yeah, 2765 02:41:47,160 --> 02:41:50,200 Speaker 1: nobody knows. Nobody knows that a tenth or they know 2766 02:41:50,280 --> 02:41:52,840 Speaker 1: a tenth of what you guys do and the other nine. 2767 02:41:52,920 --> 02:41:54,720 Speaker 1: There's also the problem to stuff you think you know 2768 02:41:54,760 --> 02:41:58,640 Speaker 1: and you realize there's a little more to it. Yeah. Yeah, 2769 02:41:58,680 --> 02:42:01,000 Speaker 1: we have a great, great group of people that work 2770 02:42:01,000 --> 02:42:04,240 Speaker 1: at the National Shooting Sports Foundation, really passionate about what 2771 02:42:04,320 --> 02:42:07,880 Speaker 1: we do and uh dedicated to serving our members. And 2772 02:42:08,520 --> 02:42:11,360 Speaker 1: you know, we're really proud of our all these you 2773 02:42:11,360 --> 02:42:14,560 Speaker 1: know what we say, real solutions for safer communities, you know, 2774 02:42:14,600 --> 02:42:19,199 Speaker 1: and representing the industry UM in state capitals all across 2775 02:42:19,200 --> 02:42:23,200 Speaker 1: the country and here in Washington. UM. You know, the 2776 02:42:23,200 --> 02:42:26,960 Speaker 1: the challenge never ends. UM. I got one more question though, 2777 02:42:27,000 --> 02:42:29,640 Speaker 1: Any chance you guys can move Shot out of Las Vegas? 2778 02:42:33,040 --> 02:42:39,440 Speaker 1: Not likely. We're there, UM, you know for for many years. 2779 02:42:39,560 --> 02:42:41,960 Speaker 1: We we've got signed contracts going out and as I say, 2780 02:42:42,040 --> 02:42:44,960 Speaker 1: we were if we talked about in the year before. 2781 02:42:45,000 --> 02:42:48,720 Speaker 1: But next year we'll take space in MGM, and the 2782 02:42:48,840 --> 02:42:52,040 Speaker 1: year after that will take space in UM a building 2783 02:42:52,040 --> 02:42:54,640 Speaker 1: that Caesar's is putting up. The Caesar's for him will 2784 02:42:54,680 --> 02:42:57,360 Speaker 1: go from just under seven hundred thousand square feet to 2785 02:42:57,720 --> 02:43:00,520 Speaker 1: just under a million and now I'm sorry it's not 2786 02:43:00,560 --> 02:43:05,840 Speaker 1: open to the public. Mark Gotty Concluders. I think probably 2787 02:43:05,840 --> 02:43:07,920 Speaker 1: one of the funnest things that you know, I really 2788 02:43:08,000 --> 02:43:10,800 Speaker 1: enjoy working here with Like I was explained to you 2789 02:43:10,879 --> 02:43:15,080 Speaker 1: kind of before we started talking on the show, Yeah, 2790 02:43:15,080 --> 02:43:17,760 Speaker 1: I get to I get to talk about hunting and 2791 02:43:17,800 --> 02:43:19,760 Speaker 1: guns all day. I mean, this is it's a passion 2792 02:43:19,800 --> 02:43:22,320 Speaker 1: of mine. But uh, you know, the fun thing about 2793 02:43:22,400 --> 02:43:24,000 Speaker 1: it is is those of us who kind of as 2794 02:43:24,120 --> 02:43:26,280 Speaker 1: as I've gotten into this world and I've I've worked 2795 02:43:26,280 --> 02:43:28,000 Speaker 1: in it, and I've talked to other people who were 2796 02:43:28,080 --> 02:43:31,320 Speaker 1: kind of in this world. Uh, we work all day 2797 02:43:31,360 --> 02:43:34,480 Speaker 1: so everyone else gets to go hunt and shoot. So 2798 02:43:34,480 --> 02:43:36,520 Speaker 1: so I wish I got to get out and hunt 2799 02:43:36,520 --> 02:43:39,800 Speaker 1: and shooting. I really do. I don't know nearly as 2800 02:43:39,840 --> 02:43:42,280 Speaker 1: often as I want. So, so you know, for everyone 2801 02:43:42,320 --> 02:43:44,920 Speaker 1: who's listening to the podcast, for me, get out and 2802 02:43:45,000 --> 02:43:47,000 Speaker 1: hunt shoot, because that's that's what I'm working every day 2803 02:43:47,000 --> 02:43:48,360 Speaker 1: for you guys to do. So I want you to 2804 02:43:48,400 --> 02:43:49,959 Speaker 1: go out and hunt shoot. If you if you have 2805 02:43:49,959 --> 02:43:51,520 Speaker 1: a hunting season and you have something you can go 2806 02:43:51,520 --> 02:43:53,560 Speaker 1: out and hunt, go out and hunt it today, you know. 2807 02:43:53,600 --> 02:43:55,880 Speaker 1: And if if you can't hunt something today and get 2808 02:43:55,879 --> 02:43:57,280 Speaker 1: your gun to go down to the range and get 2809 02:43:57,280 --> 02:43:59,920 Speaker 1: better at shooting. So that's pretty because so many guys 2810 02:44:00,080 --> 02:44:01,480 Speaker 1: right in about wanting to be like in, you know, 2811 02:44:01,600 --> 02:44:04,800 Speaker 1: quote the industry, and I'm like, man, you know a 2812 02:44:04,879 --> 02:44:06,840 Speaker 1: lot of people I know that do them the most 2813 02:44:06,840 --> 02:44:11,680 Speaker 1: time outside are not in the industry. Yeah, industry, I'm 2814 02:44:11,760 --> 02:44:13,879 Speaker 1: gonna industry your way out of the wood. I'm still 2815 02:44:13,879 --> 02:44:15,920 Speaker 1: looking for that very rich uncle who's gonna let me 2816 02:44:15,959 --> 02:44:18,160 Speaker 1: just hunt and fish all this the number of times 2817 02:44:18,200 --> 02:44:21,040 Speaker 1: people have said, oh, you must get to go honey 2818 02:44:21,080 --> 02:44:24,000 Speaker 1: all the time, I'm like, actually, no, like hardly ever, 2819 02:44:25,120 --> 02:44:29,160 Speaker 1: Johnny Ah. Yeah. I'll just conclude with thank you for 2820 02:44:29,280 --> 02:44:32,600 Speaker 1: what you guys do. I appreciate you guys making opportunities 2821 02:44:32,640 --> 02:44:34,200 Speaker 1: for me to hunt and fish all the time. So 2822 02:44:35,160 --> 02:44:37,920 Speaker 1: um yeah, right now, we love we love to see 2823 02:44:38,160 --> 02:44:40,200 Speaker 1: what happens on the show, and we love to what's 2824 02:44:40,240 --> 02:44:42,480 Speaker 1: happening on the podcast. So we get to live a 2825 02:44:42,480 --> 02:44:45,000 Speaker 1: little vicariously through your adventure. So thanks for sharing with 2826 02:44:45,000 --> 02:45:06,080 Speaker 1: the world. Thanks for joining to set