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Speaker 1: Steve Palizolo is a co host of Check the Mic

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Speaker 1: who does consulting work for various teams across professional in

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Speaker 1: college football. He previously worked for PFF for well over

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Speaker 1: a decade. He's an East coach, dad, a former professional

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Speaker 1: baseball player, and he's almost definitely taller than you are.

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Speaker 1: These are his late round perspectives.

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Speaker 2: I saw our Twitter dms went back to at least

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Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, so I'm assuming maybe slightly before that various interactions.

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Speaker 1: So it's been like a decade at least, right, And

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Speaker 1: this is the first show that we've done together.

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Speaker 3: I think it is, Yeah, so a long time coming.

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Speaker 3: This is a big one.

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Speaker 1: I know, man very rarely though too do I meet

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Speaker 1: some because we got to meet each other IRL at

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Speaker 1: the Super Bowl at Radio Row this year, and I

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Speaker 1: knew you were tall, but like you were like another

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Speaker 1: It's like when you go there and you're walking by

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Speaker 1: and like Derrick Henry walks by and you're like, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: he's even bigger. One that got me this year was

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Speaker 1: Cam Hayward like he oh yeah, like you know that

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Speaker 1: he's massive. But I guess because they're down a lot right,

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Speaker 1: like like ready to and like you don't, and then

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Speaker 1: you think to yourself, like, how can an offensive lineman

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Speaker 1: possibly like how can another human possibly block this man?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: Like that was the but then I saw you, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you're even bigger than I thought you would be.

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Speaker 2: And I get that a lot. It's funny because co

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Speaker 2: host Sam and I talk about this all the time,

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Speaker 2: like when you're on Radio Row and you see Ryan

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Speaker 2: Leaf walk by, or when we've been around guys like

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Speaker 2: Boomerisias and it's like I kind of get why NFL

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Speaker 2: teams get swayed by the in person like this guy

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Speaker 2: looks like an NFL QB and then like Bryce Young

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Speaker 2: rolls in or whatever.

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Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, I kind of get why they get

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Speaker 3: influenced a little bit by that, even though I don't

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Speaker 3: think it's smart overall.

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Speaker 1: That was the exactly that was my because like I've

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Speaker 1: always been comped physically to Joe Flacco like jokingly, like

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Speaker 1: people always just say, and it's really just like the

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Speaker 1: thick eyebrows and the hair. And we also went through

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Speaker 1: a very similar timeline journey wise of like a glow

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Speaker 1: up if you will, Like we neither of us care

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Speaker 1: about our looks in our twenties and then you know,

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Speaker 1: we started to care more as we got married and

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Speaker 1: started having families and like had to start, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to start caring.

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Speaker 4: A little bit as you get older and stuff.

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Speaker 1: And uh I got a picture with him at at

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Speaker 1: Radio Row just for for.

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Speaker 4: The memes, right yeah, and it's great.

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Speaker 1: And like that's a perfect example where you're like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, like I'm six one. I'm not like short,

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Speaker 1: I'm six one, you know, and and Flacco's standing there.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, this guy is gigantic, He's huge.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy, it is, it's great, it is uh, it

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Speaker 3: is eye opening even for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, seeing everybody in person. But I do

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Speaker 2: get that a lot bigger than I am on social media.

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Speaker 4: So you have a like, I want to talk about

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Speaker 4: your background a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I like to do this with with every New Perspective's

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Speaker 1: guest of just like how you are doing what you're

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Speaker 1: doing today, But you have an interesting background because you

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Speaker 1: were a pitcher and stuff right back in the day.

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Speaker 4: Like you like, how did this all come to be

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Speaker 4: for you?

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Speaker 3: Man? There was a lot to it.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I went, I was a baseball player

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Speaker 2: my entire life, grew up wanting to be a major

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Speaker 2: league shortstop first, until I outgrew that pivoted to pitching.

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Speaker 2: But I went to um Lowell Division two school, had

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Speaker 2: some success, but went undrafted. Eventually played independent professional baseball,

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Speaker 2: got signed by the Brewers.

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Speaker 3: And bounced around between the Brewers, Giants, and Mariners, and

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Speaker 3: then back to independent ball. But it was always all

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Speaker 3: throughout that time. That was like the beginning. It was

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Speaker 3: right in the middle of the moneyball era. And I

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Speaker 3: was always very analytical, too analytical to pitch. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I was out there like the year that I went

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Speaker 3: from double A to triple A. I had had so

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Speaker 3: much you know, second and third.

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Speaker 2: One out, get out of it type of deal, and

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Speaker 2: I was walking too many guys and I was like

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Speaker 2: too self aware of my own weaknesses. And anyway, I

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Speaker 2: topped out a triple A, and you know, toward the

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Speaker 2: end of my career needed more of an escape. It's

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Speaker 2: it's funny, it sounds strange, but like there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of pressure on you, like you're you're triple A, like

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Speaker 2: you're close to me of course living your dream.

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Speaker 4: Isn't that don't they say?

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Speaker 1: Like, isn't that like a like a ridiculously difficult life too,

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Speaker 1: just in general, like oh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean you're you're on the road. I

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Speaker 2: mean you have one hundred and forty four games and

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty four days.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I never made more than three thousand a month over

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Speaker 2: a five, you know, five months, and that was a lot.

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Speaker 2: I mean that was a lot for even compared to

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Speaker 2: what I started at, and so not a lot of money,

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Speaker 2: but it was great. I mean I would never change anything.

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Speaker 2: It was fun, sure, but I needed like stress relief

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Speaker 2: type of thing. And so I just loved football, and

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Speaker 2: I just dove into football and studying and I always

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Speaker 2: loved it anyway. But long story short, I used PFF

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Speaker 2: as a fan in nine and as a poor minor leaguer,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't afford when they up to their prices to

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Speaker 2: like one hundred bucks for the year at one point,

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Speaker 2: and they were just starting to sell to like a

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Speaker 2: team or whatever. So I got so mad sent an

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Speaker 2: email to the owner, a founder, Neil. He's like, sorry, man, business,

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Speaker 2: and so I eventually the following year, twenty eleven, I

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Speaker 2: was like, all right, I just need this information. I'm

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Speaker 2: just going to see if they need help. I said,

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Speaker 2: do you need help? They said, yeah, always need help.

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Speaker 2: Here's a practice game go chart where everybody lines up

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Speaker 2: on the field need to be ninety nine and zero

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Speaker 2: point five percent accuracy. And I said, all right, I'll

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Speaker 2: do it. I had a three three day of rain

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Speaker 2: delays my last year playing. I cranked out this game.

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Speaker 2: Took me forever, but I did ninety nine plus percent accuracy.

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Speaker 2: They're like, oh, it's good enough. Come on, you're in

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Speaker 2: part time and that's pretty much it. Like I'd finished

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Speaker 2: my baseball career, started doing part time PFF data collection

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Speaker 2: and just loved it that, you know, started to do

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Speaker 2: some writing, and then by twenty twelve I was getting

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Speaker 2: married and retiring from baseball and pivoting to a football career.

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Speaker 2: They had a full time job for me and I

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Speaker 2: learned degrading process and then became you know, employee number

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Speaker 2: six at PFF and went from there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you were at PFF for a while. I mean,

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Speaker 1: do people still just like refer to you as PFF Steve?

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Speaker 1: Like did they just lesson less and less?

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Speaker 2: But I get a lot of that, Like even on YouTube,

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Speaker 2: you get a lot of all these PFF guys. They

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Speaker 2: always hate my team and everything, but less right and

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Speaker 2: you know than I did before. But yeah, thirteen years

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Speaker 2: at PFF.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that some of that like follows you to

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Speaker 1: a degree in terms of like obviously your analysis was

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Speaker 1: embedded with that, and you still, i'm sure reference a

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Speaker 1: lot of PFF stuff and what they're doing now in general.

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Speaker 1: I do want to kind of touch on that because

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Speaker 1: I think it's important because there's just haters for no

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Speaker 1: reason that are out there when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: PFF stuff, Like what would you say if someone's just

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Speaker 1: like this is made up or this is you know,

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Speaker 1: like because obviously, and I know that you're not there now,

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Speaker 1: but obviously that was a big foundational piece for you

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Speaker 1: and what you're doing now and with your career and

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Speaker 1: who you are within the space, and so I do

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Speaker 1: think it's an important thing to at least throw out

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Speaker 1: there of like that is who you are as an

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Speaker 1: analyst or at least where you've stemmed from, and so like,

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Speaker 1: how would you kind of speak to that person who

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Speaker 1: might be skeptical.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good description that you use too.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like if people follow Kurt Warner on X

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Speaker 2: and he's always lamenting how offenses are run these days.

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Speaker 2: But it's because he came up through a certain style,

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Speaker 2: and he loves his style, and he knows his style,

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Speaker 2: and he thinks that's the best style, and so I

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Speaker 2: have elements of that where I learned the game through

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Speaker 2: this PFF lens, this analytical production grating lens. And for

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Speaker 2: people who don't think it's real, I mean it's real.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's three hundred page rubric and we're talking

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Speaker 2: rules around the six scenarios when the right guard and

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Speaker 2: right tackle are down blocking the three technique on power?

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Speaker 2: What does a zero grade look like? What does a

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Speaker 2: plus point five look like? What does a minus one

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Speaker 2: look like? And you're training people up, just like you're

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Speaker 2: training them in a system to know your language and

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Speaker 2: to know what they're looking for. And then the conversations

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Speaker 2: are like, hey, we think this, I think this throws

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Speaker 2: a plus point five.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's a plus one. We're going to

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Speaker 3: disagree a little bit. Let's figure it out. Let's look historically,

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Speaker 3: every time there's a fifteen yard deep out against this coverage,

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Speaker 3: what did we do historically? Oh, we gave it a

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Speaker 3: point five. Most of the time it's a point five. Right.

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Speaker 2: So it is a it's a system that people have

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Speaker 2: to buy into, have to learn, and it's consistent as

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Speaker 2: consistent as you possibly can, grading every player on every play.

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Speaker 2: So I still believe in the process and the concept

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Speaker 2: and the idea, and I think where it gets confusing

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Speaker 2: is you have to roll it up into one number

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Speaker 2: and say this guy's is seventy nine and this guy's

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Speaker 2: in eighty four, And there's so much nuance and context

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Speaker 2: that goes into that, and that's where that's what's fun

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Speaker 2: about football to me, agreed, is the nuance in the

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Speaker 2: context around it. Not this guy's in eighty four and

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Speaker 2: this guy's in eighty one, therefore this guy's better, right,

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Speaker 2: And I think that's what gets lost, and not everybody

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Speaker 2: has time to understand the nuance, which I get, but

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Speaker 2: I think that's where the fun is, and I think

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Speaker 2: that's where you lose some of the nuance behind it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, look, I run in the same problems

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Speaker 1: because like you're trying to make data consumable in some way,

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Speaker 1: and you have to do it in that score fashion

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Speaker 1: or some way of making it consumable.

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Speaker 4: But then you know there's gonna be a lot of

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Speaker 4: people who are.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh, I only care about that score and so

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Speaker 1: therefore I'm going to lose all that context. But you

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Speaker 1: know you're someone like myself. I'm just like I want,

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Speaker 1: like the entire point of my job is to provide

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Speaker 1: that context.

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Speaker 2: Right, I'll never forget like when Chris Collinsworth bought PFF

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Speaker 2: and he flew us all out to Cincinnati where I

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Speaker 2: live now, and we had week long meetings about, Hey,

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Speaker 2: it used to be a plus minus system, right, the

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Speaker 2: old PFF used to be this guy's plus forty two

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Speaker 2: and this guy's a minus twenty six. But every scale

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Speaker 2: was different, and he and Chris was like, we need

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Speaker 2: a zero one hundred system. Everybody knows zero to one hundred,

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Speaker 2: right Madden And I said, well, even within that, Madden

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Speaker 2: has more nineties than PFF does, Right, So there's scales

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Speaker 2: within the scale. So conveying context is always a challenge,

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Speaker 2: especially especially if you're trying to do it in a

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Speaker 2: one number system.

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Speaker 1: One thing I'll also say, just to kind of wrap

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Speaker 1: this up, is that you will often see there's always

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Speaker 1: one point in time. I think we've even DMed about this,

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Speaker 1: where there's always one point time in the season it's

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Speaker 1: like week ten or week eleven where something happens with

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Speaker 1: like it's usually quarterback because people care about quarterback most,

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Speaker 1: and there's like one grade that everyone's like, how did

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Speaker 1: this happen? And then it becomes the talk of Twitter

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Speaker 1: for that week, right, like clockwork.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. One thing I would say.

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Speaker 1: About this though, too, is that if you think about

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Speaker 1: it from the perspective of hundreds of players are being

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Speaker 1: graded and we're there's only arguments about a handful of them,

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Speaker 1: does that not tell you that there's probably a lot

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Speaker 1: of good going on with the process and how things are, like,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot more agreement than disagreement. It's just that,

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Speaker 1: as usual, we're disagreeing about the fraction of things that

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Speaker 1: are going on, and that's what makes headlines and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Let me give you a different perspective on it, too,

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Speaker 2: because you're absolutely right. But I don't work at PFF anymore.

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Speaker 2: I don't need to advocate for the company. I'm glad

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Speaker 2: I don't have to be a part of those arguments anymore.

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Speaker 2: But I believe in the process and the system maybe

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Speaker 2: more than anyone in the world, because I think it's useful, right,

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Speaker 2: I think I might I might think it's the most useful.

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Speaker 2: I might be the one who thinks it's more useful

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Speaker 2: than anyone else in the world. Is how I'll position it.

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Speaker 2: PFF's trying to grade every player on every play. Every

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Speaker 2: other level of analytics is usually trying to say I'm

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Speaker 2: isolating quarterbacks or I'm evaluating quarterbacks. And that's what I

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Speaker 2: think actually makes it good is when a quarterback gets

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Speaker 2: a fifty yard touchdown, there's a chance it's the defense fault.

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Speaker 3: Defense is fault. There's a chance it's the receiver's credit.

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Speaker 3: There's a chance the quarterback deserves all the credit. And

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Speaker 3: so the splitting of credit is where context also gets lost.

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Speaker 3: And the fact that when you're watching, even just like

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Speaker 3: offensive line coaches that we talk to you, they're only

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Speaker 3: watching their offensive lineman through their lens, not what the

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Speaker 3: defense is necessarily trying to do. And the advantage that

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Speaker 3: a PFF system, the system, the concept has is trying

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Speaker 3: to see both sides of it and then assign credit. Hey,

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Speaker 3: you're trying to do this job, but it's an easy job, say,

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Speaker 3: because the defense is letting you do it, rather than oh,

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Speaker 3: it's a win for the offensive linement because that's how

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Speaker 3: I taught them, right, So that's the other layer of nuances.

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Speaker 3: You're not trying to find like a QB evaluation system.

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Speaker 3: You're trying to find a player evaluation system. And sometimes

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Speaker 3: the QB's credit for the fifty yard touchdown is negligible, right,

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Speaker 3: And I think that's where the advantage is to that

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Speaker 3: type of system.

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Speaker 4: Yeahe hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: I mean we've been dealing with that with like expected

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Speaker 1: point models forever since they came out, where it's like

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Speaker 1: the feedback is always whatever the metric is, whatever the

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Speaker 1: model is, the feedback is always, well, this isn't capturing everything,

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Speaker 1: and the response analytically should be like I know, you know,

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Speaker 1: like like we understand that. But at least PFF is

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Speaker 1: taking that to a level where there's an attempt to

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Speaker 1: you know, where there's not to say that it is

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Speaker 1: and anyone there would say that it's flawless.

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Speaker 4: I don't think anything would be in this game that's very.

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Speaker 1: Big flex right, right, But it's at least giving us

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Speaker 1: something that does not exist, which is why you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's helpful. So yeah, I'm I've been a backer

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Speaker 1: for a while, you know, and I've worked with people

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Speaker 1: who weren't, which was always difficult on my end then

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Speaker 1: to kind of like hone in that narrative.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, just figure out where it helps you too. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it might help like for you, it might help you

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Speaker 2: with running backs and not help you with receiver, right.

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Speaker 2: It might help you with edge rushers generally if you're

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Speaker 2: watching football, it doesn't help as well with safeties and linebackers.

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Speaker 2: So you have to know that too and know how

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Speaker 2: it helps and where the strengths and weaknesses lie.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So with that being said, knowing your background a little

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Speaker 1: bit in your journey, let's talk some Let's talk some

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Speaker 1: ball here. So we just had before I want to

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Speaker 1: get into a lot of prospects stuff because that you know,

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Speaker 1: tis the season. But we had an interesting free agency period,

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Speaker 1: especially from a more of a fantasy football perspective. It

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Speaker 1: is funny after the discussion that went on on.

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Speaker 4: Twitter this week.

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Speaker 1: I won't name names for the discussion of fantasy draft

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Speaker 1: analysts versus real draft analysts and all this and then

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Speaker 1: lo and.

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Speaker 4: Behold you are the guests this week on late Round perspectives.

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Speaker 4: But I think it's.

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Speaker 1: Really important to have I want to get the perspective

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Speaker 1: of somebody who's not like, only looking at this from

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Speaker 1: a fantasy angle, whereas the audience obviously is thinking about

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Speaker 1: it from that perspective.

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Speaker 4: But from your angle and from your perspective.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about three players in particular here

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Speaker 1: that you know, they weren't necessarily free agents, but there

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Speaker 1: were trades that went down too. So we'll start with

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Speaker 1: Kenneth Walker going to Kansas City. You know, aside from

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Speaker 1: how good of an idea this was, or if the

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Speaker 1: Chief should have gone after Jeremiah Love whatever the kid,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't need to get into that. I

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Speaker 1: just want to talk about fit of Kenneth Walker in

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Speaker 1: Kansas City and how you see that playing out at

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Speaker 1: least here in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: It's an interesting fit, I would say, because the historic

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Speaker 2: Mahomes Read era, and then before Mahomes the Read era,

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Speaker 2: how many times were people begging Andy Reid run the ball, Andy,

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Speaker 2: come on, what are you doing? And so they're just

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Speaker 2: not a run first type of team. But the Chiefs

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Speaker 2: of Morphed a couple times now in the Mahomes era, right,

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Speaker 2: they blow it up, they trade Tyreek Hill, they become

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Speaker 2: a defensive minded team. So the one thing I'm keeping

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Speaker 2: an eye on, I'm not predicting it necessarily. Is this

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Speaker 2: the next pivot for the Chiefs. Are they going to

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Speaker 2: become more run heavy? Are they going to be more

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Speaker 2: under center? Because on paper, running like a shotgun, wide zone,

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Speaker 2: RPO heavy run game probably isn't great for ken Walker.

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Speaker 2: But if you get under center, run downhill a little

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Speaker 2: bit more, maybe go a little bit more high volume

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Speaker 2: because Mahomes has those games where you're in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the second quarter and he's like seventeen for twenty

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Speaker 2: two and the Backs have three runs, you know, and

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Speaker 2: then maybe they run with the lead in the second

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Speaker 2: half and catch up.

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Speaker 3: I do wonder if they're going to run the ball

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Speaker 3: a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: So overall I like it, But if they stay the same,

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Speaker 2: it's okay. You know, he's not great in the past

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Speaker 2: game relatives to some other running backs, so you might

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Speaker 2: not You'll get value there.

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Speaker 3: It's the Chiefs.

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Speaker 2: I think eventually they'll get back to putting up some

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Speaker 2: points and he'll have touchdown opportunities in the whole thing.

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Speaker 3: But I am interested to see.

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Speaker 2: At other times they've said, hey, we can't let the

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Speaker 2: O line fail again we attack the O line. I

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Speaker 2: wonder if they're saying, we can't put all this pressure

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Speaker 2: on mahomes with not enough weapons, we are actually going

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Speaker 2: to run the ball more. And if they're going to

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Speaker 2: do that with Walker, who's great downhill, He's a home

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Speaker 2: run hitter, He's always looking for home runs, but he

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Speaker 2: also showed a little bit of like laybyon bell Ish

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Speaker 2: super patience working them between the tackles. And I think

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Speaker 2: Walker might be ready for his next like his best

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Speaker 2: seasons coming up here if given the opportunity.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I totally agree.

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Speaker 1: The other thing too, is I mean, like you look

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Speaker 1: at who he's replacing, and you look at the explosive

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Speaker 1: runs of what with Walker, It's like.

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Speaker 4: You couldn't get probably more night and day.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but like it could be as simple as

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Speaker 2: that where they said, look we could get three yards

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Speaker 2: four yards with these guys. Walker's going to turn three

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Speaker 2: into fifteen lot more often and we're happy with that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it could be as simple as that for

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Speaker 2: the chief.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what's exciting too, is that, Like I mean

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Speaker 1: Kareem Hunt visually, you know, you watch him last year

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Speaker 1: and you're just like, this is this is not great, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, like success rate wise, actually

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Speaker 1: not that bad. Like he right right, He's still able,

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Speaker 1: He's still able to get that like just get just

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Speaker 1: enough to get that successful run.

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Speaker 3: Right now.

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Speaker 1: Combine that with Kenneth Walker, who's struggled from a success

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Speaker 1: rate perspective, who then can also generate explosives like almost

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Speaker 1: no other running back in the NFL can, And that

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Speaker 1: could be it too. Yeah, Like like you said, where

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Speaker 1: there's a chance that this could be more. I think

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Speaker 1: that what we're saying though, is that from like a

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Speaker 1: production standpoint, so it's a plus for Kenneth Walker overall,

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Speaker 1: you know, like it should should be a pretty good

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Speaker 1: environment for him. Let's talk about Jaylen Waddle going to Denver.

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Speaker 1: There were some split opinions, at least from like a

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Speaker 1: in the fantasy world. You know, I have mine for sure,

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Speaker 1: but I want to hear yours about his fit. If

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Speaker 1: you think that, you know, he just becomes the alpha immediately,

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Speaker 1: you know, how he works with Courtland Sutton, all that

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Speaker 1: good stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean from a from the Broncos perspective, I

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Speaker 3: like it.

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Speaker 2: From a fantasy perspective, I could definitely understand you know,

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Speaker 2: the there's a lot of a lot of mouths to

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Speaker 2: feed over there, and I'm curious to know how the

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Speaker 2: wide receiver corps shakes out because they you know, Troy

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Speaker 2: Franklin emerged last year as a player, he's just inconsistent.

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Speaker 2: Marvin Mims, I've always thought was under used, but I

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Speaker 2: could just be you hanging on my priors for Mims,

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Speaker 2: and I think he'll stick around at least because of

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Speaker 2: the punt return value. But I think they've found something

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Speaker 2: with him the last year and a half. But I

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Speaker 2: think the wattle outside speed yack ability combined with Courtland

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Speaker 2: Sutton is great for the Broncos, great for bo Nicks.

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Speaker 2: The question is going to be, Okay, he's not going

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Speaker 2: to have those old games where he has like twelve

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Speaker 2: catches for forty yards like he used to have before

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Speaker 2: Mike McDaniel got there.

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Speaker 3: He might just be this vertical threat.

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Speaker 2: And you know the Sean Payton deal, it's like, who

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Speaker 2: knows week to week how he's going to feature you guys.

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Speaker 2: But I think waddle to me offense is about having answers,

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Speaker 2: and now they've got this vertical answer with a big

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Speaker 2: bodied answer, and they still probably need to improve a

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Speaker 2: tight end, but they've got way more answers on offense

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Speaker 2: with Wattle there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree, And you at least get the

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Speaker 1: versatility to move someone in and out, like he can

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Speaker 1: play everywhere in the formation.

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Speaker 4: And uh, you know they have Pat Bryan at least

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Speaker 4: showed a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I thought they were going to feature Pat Bryant in

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Speaker 1: that playoff game before he went down.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like the first three targets, it was, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Legitimately like Pat Bryant was about to destroy in that game.

437
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:15,560
Speaker 3: And I I.

438
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 1: Do think that, like, like I have this this feeling

439
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,920
Speaker 1: deep down that like they think or Sean Payton thinks

440
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,199
Speaker 1: that Bryant could be that like not not quite but

441
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,960
Speaker 1: in that like Michael Thomas type arc type of.

442
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,679
Speaker 3: Slot Marcus Colston. But yeah, yeah, you can go Colston too.

443
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,679
Speaker 4: It's all the same, right there's yeah, just throw a

444
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:36,520
Speaker 4: big slot in there.

445
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,520
Speaker 1: But uh, but yeah, I mean like they at least

446
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 1: have all of these pieces where you can see how

447
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,360
Speaker 1: it would form together from a real football perspective.

448
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 4: I think Waddle's good enough to still.

449
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,160
Speaker 1: See you you know, twenty three twenty four percent target

450
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,199
Speaker 1: shair and if he's efficient enough on that then he

451
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 1: then he should be okay. And then the last one's

452
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,640
Speaker 1: DJ Moore going to Buffalo where I mean Buffalo over

453
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,240
Speaker 1: the last five years has you know, it's funny they

454
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,119
Speaker 1: the one guy, that one bigger body guy. They went

455
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,840
Speaker 1: after his key On Coleman and a lot of folks

456
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 1: like Matt Harmon for instance, charted him and said, no,

457
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,960
Speaker 1: this is a big slot like this is not what Yeah,

458
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,160
Speaker 1: not a permanent guy. All they've done is just get

459
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,440
Speaker 1: slot receiver after slot receiver. At least they get a

460
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: guy that can move a little bit and do some things,

461
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 1: but he's you know, a little bit older and not

462
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 1: quite the same guy maybe that we saw three or

463
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:20,640
Speaker 1: four years ago.

464
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 4: But how do you feel about DJ More in Buffalo.

465
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, we joke on our show that they were building

466
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 2: the offense just to beat the Chiefs right with a

467
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 2: bunch of slots and you know, tight end hybrids to

468
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 2: attack the middle of the field where the Chiefs are

469
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 2: weaker and they're really well equipped Buffalo to beat the

470
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 2: Chiefs defense. Now they just have to beat other teams

471
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,919
Speaker 2: now too. But I think More's good in the short term.

472
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,640
Speaker 2: I mean, when you look at it holistically, the contract

473
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 2: and being twenty seven million guaranteed two years from now, Like,

474
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 2: that's not going to feel great. I don't think if

475
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 2: you're the Bills, given where More is in his career.

476
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,359
Speaker 2: But I still think he moves well enough. He is

477
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 2: good running routes on the outside, getting in and out

478
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 2: of breaks, runs, the dig route, runs, the deep out.

479
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 2: I mean, those are just hearts of the offense that

480
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 2: the Bills have not had. So that's why they were

481
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 2: trying to solve that problem. Maybe an expensive solution for them,

482
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,879
Speaker 2: giving up a two in the in the in the financials,

483
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 2: especially given some of the other draft picks going around

484
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 2: for star players. More is not really a star anymore.

485
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 2: I mean, it's so good for the Bears that they could,

486
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 2: like he could be expendable, They're not gonna miss a beat,

487
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 2: I don't think. But that's not a knock on Dj Moore.

488
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 2: I think I think he helps the Bills in the

489
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 2: short term, gives them an outside answer. I just worry

490
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 2: about him aging and you know what they've invested in.

491
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 2: But for short term, I think they'll got better with

492
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:32,680
Speaker 2: that move.

493
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 1: Do you do anticipate them spending something at wide receiver

494
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 1: in the draft like doing doing like like they have

495
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,679
Speaker 1: to have some sort of funnel coming in at wide receiver.

496
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,639
Speaker 4: They just don't have that much going on behind him.

497
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 3: At this point, I wouldn't hate seeing them double up.

498
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I know we're going to talk about Denzel

499
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 2: Boston later, and I see Bills fans already having PTSD

500
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 2: because oh he's big and Keon Coleman is big, and

501
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 2: they make contested catches. Therefore they're the same guy. But

502
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 2: the way you describe Keon Coleman as the big slot again,

503
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,159
Speaker 2: my guy Sam Montson, he was like, that's what he is.

504
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 3: He's a big slot.

505
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 2: Him and Harmon, we're in complete agreement about what Coleman is.

506
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 2: He doesn't separate on the outside, and I do think

507
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 2: Boston and some other guys in this draft can't do

508
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 2: that and can be had in the late first or

509
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 2: maybe a flyer in the second.

510
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 1: So I said that on another show at one point,

511
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't even realize, like they could

512
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 1: always trade back in or do something.

513
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I just hate doing that because I don't

514
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 2: have everybody's exact draft capital off the top of my head.

515
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 2: So I hate making mistakes because the internet exists, but

516
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like there are receivers to

517
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 2: be had there, so yeah, I could see them doubling up.

518
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,880
Speaker 2: But I think they this was like playing it safe

519
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 2: for them, even though it's aggressive, which was like, let's

520
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 2: not let's not go through the draft and the wrong

521
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 2: like the right Jaden Higgins or whoever, it doesn't fall

522
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 2: and then we're in trouble.

523
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:46,239
Speaker 3: So they had to make a move.

524
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they're win now modes, so it makes

525
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 1: sense to make that move to have something. All right,

526
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 1: So since we're talking about the draft, let's talk about

527
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 1: the draft. This class. When you look at quarterback, running back,

528
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 1: wide receiver, tight end, if you were to just like

529
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 1: rate it on a scale from one to ten, and

530
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 1: how would you rate the class in some with those

531
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 1: skill position players, and then what skill position you think

532
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: is is best and worst?

533
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 3: Oh man, it's probably like a four in skill positions

534
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 3: this year. I mean maybe go three even maybe three.

535
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's poor because you just you

536
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 2: don't have the elite blue chip talent. You don't have

537
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 2: anybody that everybody says not a yes right when the

538
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 2: when the analytics people and the film people and everybody

539
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 2: agree and you just don't have that right, so there's

540
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 2: a lot of disagreement. Wide receiver always has elements of

541
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 2: that because it's a unique position.

542
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 3: But I think it's I think it's weak overall. I

543
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 3: think receiver always has depth again nature of the position,

544
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 3: because you're finding that more than any other position. You're

545
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 3: finding what a guy can do, not so much what

546
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 3: they can't do, because you can dictate that football wise.

547
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,959
Speaker 3: You can't do that with an offensive tackle. You can't say, hey,

548
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 3: you're a great pass blocker, just play on third down.

549
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 3: So receiver, it always feels deep because you can play

550
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 3: to player's strengths. And I think this class has a

551
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 3: wide range of types. Always tight end. I know, Dan

552
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 3: Brugler and everybody's talking, this is the deepest tight end

553
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 3: class in a while as far as depth and finding

554
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 3: blockers deep in the draft. So tight end looks pretty good.

555
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: So I'd say receiver and tight end and then I

556
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 2: mean QB and running backs just a mess, especially after

557
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 2: last year's running back class where you can get a

558
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 2: Cam Skataboo in the fourth round.

559
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 3: I mean, is he RB two in this class? Yeah? Yeah,

560
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 3: he may have been, and he was RB three for me.

561
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 2: Last year anyway, But in this class for sure, it's

562
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,159
Speaker 2: him behind Jeremiah Love so QB and running back is

563
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: probably as weak as we all think it is.

564
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I'm in complete agreement.

565
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: And then you mentioned Jeremiah Love consensus RB one, do

566
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: you think that you know, if you put on your

567
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 1: GM hat, you know, I know that from your perspective

568
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: you'd be more tied into this stuff than what I

569
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 1: would be. But like, do you think that he's a

570
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 1: lock for top ten draft capital? And then if you

571
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: look at recent memory some of these running backs that

572
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 1: have come out ashing gent last year he had Bijon

573
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: and Ejamier Gibbs in that class, where.

574
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 4: Does he stack up with those guys?

575
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: Like do you think he's as good as an Ash

576
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: and genty or is it like a slight tier below

577
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: or is he better?

578
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 4: Like where are you looking at him?

579
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: I think he's in that tier. I mean, I think

580
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 2: I don't want to use too much hindsight. I think

581
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: Bijon was the best. I probably thought gent last year.

582
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 2: I'm trying to be in this right headspace. I've got

583
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 2: a model, but I've got my opinions and everything too.

584
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 2: I think gent Y was up there with Bijon, But

585
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 2: Bijon just felt super special. Saquon, we know he's he's

586
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 2: a nine. I've never seen a nine er the old GM. Yeah,

587
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 2: going it too. Jeremiah loves that guy, right, because he's

588
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 2: got the big playability, incredible flexibility, Ben he can catch

589
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: the ball out of the backfield. I mean, I think

590
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 2: he has everything you want in a top ten. If

591
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 2: a guy's going to go in the top ten, that's

592
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: what it looks like.

593
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

594
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 2: Now the question is is that worth it? What you

595
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: can debate that all day. I don't have all day.

596
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: I am trying to JJ see the other side of

597
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 2: it as well, the idea of if we go back

598
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: and say, was Bijon worth it, there's a strong case

599
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 2: that he's worth it At eight overall, there's a strong

600
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 2: case that Jamiir Gibbs has been worth it. But the

601
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 2: those guys also stepped into good offensive line situations, especially Gibbs,

602
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 2: and he became I think where I've come around to is,

603
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 2: if you're the four, if you're the fourth playmaker on

604
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 2: your team, right, if you like with the Lions, you

605
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 2: got aman Rah and you got Sam Laporta, and you

606
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 2: got Jamison Williams and then oh, by the way, good

607
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 2: luck covering Gibbs out of the backfield and dealing with

608
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 2: his big, big playability.

609
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 3: That's where I think you become kind of a force

610
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 3: multiplier for the offense. And so that's the fear the

611
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: Ashtrion Genty just rolls in, Hey go save the Raiders' offense. Well,

612
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 3: nobody can block and nobody can catch, so you can't

613
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 3: do that. So that's the fear of taking the top

614
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 3: ten guy. But Love as a prospect looks like all

615
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 3: of those guys, including Gibbs, a bigger version of Gibbs,

616
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 3: you know, with his speed. So I think he's worth

617
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 3: the top ten pick through that lens.

618
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you anticipate it, like, like, I mean, you

619
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 1: have what Tennessee's there, the Giants. There's been rumors you

620
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: get Washington, who I think that that's like the safest

621
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,479
Speaker 1: spot at this point is like a Washington. But like

622
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: Kansas City at nine just signed Kenneth Walker. It seems

623
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: like they would I mean, does not seem like the

624
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: right use of resources if they were always Love there.

625
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: But do you think that he will go top ten?

626
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 3: I was shocked at how much smoke there was around

627
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 3: Tennessee at four coming out of them. I was shocked

628
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 3: at that.

629
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and I'm not saying it's definitely gonna happen,

630
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 2: but that is becoming the chalk pick for a team

631
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 2: that has a wide receiver need, a multiple pass rush need.

632
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: I mean, They've got needs at valuable positions. I was

633
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: shocked at that. And then I know a lot of

634
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 2: draft analysts are saying, well, if Washington with Rashad White,

635
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: and the Saints with eight Chan and the Chiefs with

636
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: Ken Walker, I mean, they all know they're out on

637
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: Jeremiah Love. They went to free agency, so they know

638
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 2: something's happening at four or five.

639
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 3: And maybe that's true.

640
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: So I'm kind of buying into he's not making it

641
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 2: out of the top ten, but if he does, like

642
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 2: if the Titans are If the Titans are smart, I

643
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 2: don't think they make the move. If the Giants are smart,

644
00:26:58,400 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 2: I don't think they make them k with Tyrone Tray

645
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 2: and scatted.

646
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 3: But I think they have a perfect running What is wrong?

647
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 4: That's what I can't understand. What is wrong with that backfield?

648
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I understand the injury, but like, aside from that,

649
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: is there really I mean, is that not the right

650
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: kind of tanga?

651
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 2: How we would draw it up, right, Like, that's how

652
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 2: we would draw it up. You're a team picking in

653
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: the top ten and you have two first contract running

654
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 2: backs who were both picked after a round three year later.

655
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 2: It's a perfect scenario. It's one of the cheapest running

656
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 2: back rooms and they're both pretty good and they're complimentary.

657
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: It's perfect for the Giants.

658
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 2: And so now if that happens, then it's interesting because Washington,

659
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: like I could see them talking themselves into I get

660
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: into this force multiplier thing where if you have Jayden

661
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: and Daniels and you have Jeremiah Love, Like, there's something

662
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 2: too having the running quarterback and the running the big

663
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 2: play running back together. But they just they're three deep

664
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: at running back as well. So I don't know if

665
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 2: there's a perfect fit for him. But at the end

666
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: of the day, I still think someone picks him in

667
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 2: the top ten because they say it is the best

668
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 2: player in the draft. There's the blue chips in this draft.

669
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: You take the best player.

670
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 4: That's the thing.

671
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: And like, if there is a draft where a running

672
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: back would go early, it's probably this one. You just

673
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: got it, you know, because there's just not that much

674
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: of that high end talent that you're like obviously trying

675
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: to make that expected value calculation. It's just like there's

676
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: gonna be a team out there, just like I don't care.

677
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: I'm just getting the the guy at the top of

678
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: my board.

679
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 4: Which you know, I'd go on and on about that kind.

680
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 3: Of and real quick.

681
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 2: Like it's funny because I know enough people in front

682
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 2: offices like they know better. Yeah, but they're also dealing

683
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: with owners, right, They're like, there's those those are real things, yeah,

684
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 2: where owners are like, well, this guy's gonna they're gonna

685
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 2: see his face twenty times a game. We were gonna

686
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: sell tickets and he's safe, and we know he's gonna

687
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: be good, and we don't want to back up, tackle

688
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: or develop.

689
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 3: So I kind of get it, but like those are

690
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 3: real conversations to me.

691
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: That's the Tennessee angle probably right, Like yeah, it's just

692
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: like let's just get this dynamic player and just see

693
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: what happens. But the problem that I see is like

694
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: I like, we just saw this happen with Ashton genty

695
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: last year where it can go south very very fast, yeah,

696
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: you know, and and that that would be the overall fear.

697
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: You mentioned that the running back class is pretty weak.

698
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: Do you have an RB two like, like, like, when

699
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: you're sitting there looking at this class, like, is there

700
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: a guy that stands out you or is it kind

701
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: of like a yeah, I don't mind this guy. I'll

702
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: throw him at the RB two spot. But there's a

703
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: lot of other guys who can probably be there too.

704
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: So I know Jendarium Price, I mean, that's a fascinating story,

705
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: both coming out of the same backfield. I know everybody's

706
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: got Jeneraria, well, their consensus has Jadarian Price. I like

707
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: Joanah Coleman, nice from Washington. I liked him before last

708
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: year I did. I did college Fantasy actually for the

709
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 2: first time last year, and I crushed it. Man my

710
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: summer scouting Joanah Coleman and Omark Cooper, I had some

711
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: I had some dudes in my summer scouting that I

712
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: drafted in college Fantasy. So I feel great about the

713
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 2: work I did last summer. Yeah, and being early on

714
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 2: Cooper And you know Coleman, I think, you know, he's

715
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 2: a smooth athlete, He's tough to tackle, slowed down a

716
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: little bit, had some injuries, banged up at the end

717
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: of last year.

718
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: But I think I think he's the second best running

719
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 3: back in this class.

720
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, look from a from an analytical perspective, because I'm

721
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: coming at it from a production profile and you know,

722
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: digging into market share numbers and stuff and receiving.

723
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 4: The receiving metrics.

724
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: Are really important from a model perspective because I'm using

725
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: draft capital as an input as well and rejected draft capital,

726
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: and that usually tends to capture a lot of the

727
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: rushing production just because we know that rushing production is

728
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: relatively replaceable. But Jodah Coleman has been a really interesting

729
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: player in the mind, Like his production profile is great,

730
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: is receiving profiles strong, Like he uh, you know, he's

731
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: got that Doug Martin you know, kind of kind of

732
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: compact frame to him. The only thing has he has

733
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: he tested yet did he opt not to like even

734
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: at pro Day, Like is there I guess my question

735
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: to you would be like, is there any question for

736
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: you about his general athleticism and what he might bring

737
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: to the table or is what you watched of him enough?

738
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's good enough athletically. I want to

739
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 2: see because I'm in the middle of like catching up

740
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: who tested who did you know? Proda stuff. Yeah, it's

741
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: fine if you don't have the answer, because I and

742
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: I've got some of the you know, some of the

743
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: on field athleticism measures and speeds. Don't love him, yeah,

744
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: and so that's you know, it's a valid concern. Yeah,

745
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 2: but that's I just think he's a good He's a

746
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 2: good runner. It's not full like like David Montgomery. I

747
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: don't care about his long speed because he'll be great

748
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 2: up to fifteen yards and then you know, every now

749
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 2: and again you reel off a forty. He's not that

750
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: type of player. But I usually I didn't care about

751
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: Scataboo's long speed or anything. But I think he's good

752
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: enough in between, right right, yeah, up to up to

753
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: twenty yards. I think that's kind of where Coleman is

754
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: as a player.

755
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 4: With Jenerium price.

756
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: I find this to be just like a really interesting

757
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: sort like you said, I mean, two guys are on

758
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: the same backfield. We really I just tried to find

759
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: comps in general, you know, at least dating back to

760
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, which is what I date all the prospect

761
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: my prospect work back to, and the easiest one to

762
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: go to was like a I guess Bijon and Rochean,

763
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: but even Rochean wasn't you know, he's not a day

764
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: two guy, whereas Jenerian Price looks like he's gonna be

765
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: a Day two guy. Do you have concerns about his game, like,

766
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: because look, his production profile is absolutely egregious for obvious reasons, right,

767
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: because yeah, so it's harder to.

768
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 4: Model this kind of player than a lot of other players.

769
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: I have, like teammates scorer in there, and it's looking

770
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: at you know, where Jared am I love would be

771
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: drafted and how that would impact Generian Price and such.

772
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: But are there any concerns on your end about like

773
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 1: his receiving work or his I've heard that he's terrible

774
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: in pass pro, you know, or how others have viewed

775
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: him in pass pro.

776
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 3: You know.

777
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 4: Those are the kinds of things that, yes, I'm looking.

778
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: At, but I'm more concerned about, like what type of

779
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: receiving profile could this guy necessarily have at the next level,

780
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: because that's going to obviously drive a lot of the

781
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: fantasy production. You know, if this player, if Price is

782
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,959
Speaker 1: a early down big play get type player, an explosive runner,

783
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: and there's not that much of that upside from a

784
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: receiving perspective. That scares the crap out of me, you know,

785
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: from a yeah, like for a lot of reasons, like

786
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: is that what you see from him?

787
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 4: Or do you think that he could become more of

788
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 4: that three down guy.

789
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 2: The receiving thing is so tough for running backs if

790
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 2: they don't have opportunities. I mean, he's got nineteen targets

791
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 2: in his entire career, right, and then even the pass

792
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: pro stuff that you mentioned last year, at this time

793
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: we were saying, hey, Trevan Henderson looks like the best

794
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 2: pass blocking running back we've ever seen. Then he got

795
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,479
Speaker 2: on the field and it's not a physical thing. It's

796
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: a mental thing. Like you get a scan linebacker and

797
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: a linebacker and it's a we really don't know, and

798
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: so it's more of an unknown And I know you

799
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 2: think analytically. I think analytically. My whole process is like

800
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: eliminate as many unknowns as possible, exactly, and so there

801
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: probably are too many. I mean, the real Timeshare thing

802
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: you got to go back to is Cadillac Williams and

803
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: Ronnie Brown going in the top five, which was unreal.

804
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 2: Ronnie Brown going two in Cadillac. Williams, who was more

805
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 2: hyped than Ronnie Brown, went five. Like he was the

806
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 2: bigger recruit and the bigger name at Auburn. The fact

807
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 2: that they had two backs going in the top five

808
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 2: is unbelievable. So, yeah, I've got concerns about what he

809
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: could do because you haven't seen it from a pass

810
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 2: game perspective. But he's been an awesome change of pace

811
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: for Jeremiah Love. And before I knew he was going

812
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: to be that good, I kept saying, could you guys

813
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: run Jeremiah little bit more every time he touches the ball.

814
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 2: Great things happened, but Price held his own and I

815
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 2: think that might be the thing that you hang your

816
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 2: hat on. Is like he was good enough to keep

817
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: Love off the field at times, right he was instead

818
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: of them saying, hey, here's twenty five carries to this

819
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 2: top ten pick. But there are some concerns about the

820
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: three down nature because you just haven't seen it enough.

821
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, do you like I've seen some mocks

822
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: from big name analysts like end of the first early

823
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: second round with Price.

824
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 3: Do you think I can't do it? Yeah?

825
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, I mean I have my own model too,

826
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 2: and I'm you know, I'm not. I'm modeling for different things,

827
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 2: but essentially we're trying to model production right And for me,

828
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: I just use a zero to one hundred system. I

829
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 2: want to see nineties, like the nineties translate. Yeah, And

830
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: you know he's like a mid tier type of guy.

831
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

832
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: And in running Back you talk about the fantasy community

833
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 2: versus the scouting community.

834
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 3: The fantasy community has done a great job of finding

835
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 3: running backs and figuring out what works and what doesn't,

836
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 3: and if there are any concerns, like they're usually valid.

837
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 2: There's not a whole lot of outliers. There's not many

838
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: sleepers anymore in this data driven world, and I think

839
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: there's too many unknowns in this entire class. Yeah, beyond

840
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: love and Coleman's the only guy that stands out to

841
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 2: me is like he's at least been productive enough that

842
00:34:58,400 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 2: he'd be the guy I could take a shot on,

843
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 2: you know, round three, say, or whatever it might be.

844
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: And usually seems like the running backs that do pan

845
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: out that we're kind of out of nowhere are are

846
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: dust after year one, you know, like Damian Pierce or

847
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: like yeah, like or even like I mean potentially like

848
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 1: a Kyle mannung guy potentially right, Like, he ran hard

849
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: and he's fun to watch, and I get all that,

850
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: but like, realistically, long long term, who knows what the

851
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: Bears would how how they would view him.

852
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 2: That's what we thought Pacheco. We thought Pachecko like, oh,

853
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 2: you had a great rookie season. This he'll be the

854
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 2: guy for the next three years.

855
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: And he slowed down right, right, And so like, I

856
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: think there's a reason why the draft capital was following

857
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: following the way that it did. Generian Price just interesting.

858
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: I mean, his his top statistical comp in my and

859
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 1: and the ZA model was was Ronald Jones.

860
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 4: And so that's just another reason why I'm just like,

861
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 4: I just can't.

862
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 3: Should have been so good? Yeah, he was. I just can't.

863
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: Right now, are there any any Day three backs that

864
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: you think are undervalue? Like a guy that we didn't

865
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: talk about was like Emmitt Johnson, for instance, who has

866
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: an interesting receiving profile, or you know, Mike Washington who

867
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: destroyed the combine, maybe they go Day two or any

868
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: deep players in this not so great running Mack class.

869
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: Mike Washington was He's awful in my numbers, Yeah, because

870
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,479
Speaker 2: you know, I look at a player's entire career through

871
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: different lenses and everything, and it wasn't good until this

872
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: final year. But like it's one of those things, like

873
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 2: I get it, Like I see him last year, he

874
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:17,959
Speaker 2: looked so much better.

875
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: I struggle with that.

876
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 2: What do you do with improvement on a player right

877
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 2: versus you know, doing it for their whole career When

878
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: you ask this question and you've sent me a print

879
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: out my question, look at you. I'm a hard copy guy.

880
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 2: I got hard copy. I got, I got my draft board,

881
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 2: I got the questions. Kentucky Seth McGowan another one of

882
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 2: my college fantasy players who moves really well to twenty plus,

883
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 2: had incredible workout numbers.

884
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: He's a pretty good runner. Like he's pretty good, like

885
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 3: nifty foot work and everything. I kind of like him,

886
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 3: like my model doesn't necessarily love them, but I like him.

887
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 3: I test wise, and you know, if.

888
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 2: You're going to take a chance, you don't always just

889
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: bet on traits as people say, or bet on workout numbers.

890
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 2: But he feels like, hey, athletic that translates shows up

891
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: on the field. It's pretty good run are He's uh

892
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 2: fierce at the second level finishing plays.

893
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 3: I like McGowan from Kentucky.

894
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because he I do three statistical

895
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: comps in the in the prospect guyde and for each profile,

896
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: and he I can't. He had two that were pretty awful,

897
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: right because part of part of his problem analytically is

898
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: that he's old, right, He's like, he's an older back.

899
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 4: He's like, I think he might even be twenty five,

900
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 4: or he's at least close.

901
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: But one of them was David Johnson, that that that

902
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: came here you go for McGowan.

903
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's two. The age thing always it's hard.

904
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 4: Right now too.

905
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard with nil stuff and transporal stuff, and yeah,

906
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: I still think there's a trickle of of the COVID

907
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: season and how that impacted things still, so sure, yeah,

908
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 1: it's definitely tough the age, the age side of things

909
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: right now.

910
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 2: One good comp is like, I had a JJ Puttz

911
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 2: comp one time from Baseball Prospectus, and every other comp

912
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,879
Speaker 2: was terrible, but I had one JJ Putts. So there

913
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 2: is some world where I'm still a major or I'm

914
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 2: finishing up my career as a major league closer.

915
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 3: So hold on to your best comps. Kids. Oh it's

916
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 3: so good.

917
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about wide receivers because it is

918
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: better than the running back class.

919
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 4: Do you see this class as having a big three?

920
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: Uh? Is there is there any other wide receiver that

921
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: would pop in or maybe drop out?

922
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 4: How do you view the top of the position?

923
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 3: Who are your big three? That's so it's I think.

924
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: I've I think I've anchored myself to what was being

925
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: talked about like a month.

926
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 4: Ago as a as A as A.

927
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: Tate Lemon Tyson big three as the way that the

928
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 1: it seemed like consensus kind of speaking.

929
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 4: But now Tyson has had medicals and.

930
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 1: Like people aren't as as as into him or some

931
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 1: some folks are really into Concepcion or Boston.

932
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 4: I've seen be high on on on Board.

933
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: So just talk to me about the top of this

934
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: of the position and where you have these guys.

935
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's it's a fascinating group.

936
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 2: Because I was saying a little while ago, wide receiver

937
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 2: just by its nature, you lean into what they can

938
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 2: do more than what they can't do. Not that you don't, Hey,

939
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 2: this guy can't separate, that's an issue, but it's just

940
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 2: a it's a position where you could see the good

941
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 2: in a player and then you got to figure out

942
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 2: how you value that.

943
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 3: Like Makai Lemons a great football player, how do I

944
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 3: value that?

945
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 2: We all I think we're all gonna He's a great slot,

946
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 2: he's got excellent hands, contested catches, probably can't play on

947
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: the outside.

948
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 3: How do you value that? Is that a top fifteen

949
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 3: pick in the NFL? Is that a second rounder for

950
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 3: certain teams because you have to feature, you have to

951
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 3: have a high volume slot position on your team, and

952
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 3: you might not.

953
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 2: So big three wise, I kind of agree. I think

954
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 2: Omar Cooper's sneaking in there. I mean I've seen him.

955
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: He's just sneaking in in like top twelve and top

956
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 2: thirteen and top fifteen and mock drafts and everything. The

957
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 2: I love Carnel Tate, I'll just start with that. When

958
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: I watch Tate, I think he does everything well, good

959
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 2: size ball skills. When you watch as a fan, like

960
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 2: when I'm watching throughout the season, I'm like, oh, look,

961
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 2: contested catches, And then you go back and watch the

962
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 2: film and he's got like three steps on the corner

963
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 2: and Julian Sayin's under throwing him and he's still making

964
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 2: the play. So I think Tate I walked away watching

965
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 2: him thinking he's just good at everything, route running, gets off, press,

966
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: ball skills. I like Tate a lot. I think Tyson

967
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 2: in conceptsion are similar to me because they're just so

968
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: dynamic and twitchy and athletic. And then you have questions, right,

969
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 2: more questions for conceptsi oone because he doesn't catch the

970
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 2: ball well at all. But with Tyson, the injuries, there's

971
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 2: like something missing to his game where I just don't

972
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 2: think he's an elite prospect. But then you add in

973
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 2: the injury component, it's real. I mean it's a real thing,

974
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: missing time, not necessarily recovering from last year's hamstring injury.

975
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 3: That's a concern for Tyson. And then Makai Lemon.

976
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 2: You know again, Sam and I on our show talk

977
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 2: about this all the time, like a Mecca Abuka last year. Yeah,

978
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: there's certain players that think everyone will have the same

979
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 2: scouting report per se, like here's what this player is,

980
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 2: and then people will be all over the place with

981
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: where you think that what's that worth?

982
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 3: Right? What is that worth?

983
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 2: I think Abuka was fine it picked twenty or whatever

984
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 2: it was last year, and I think Lemon in the

985
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: top fifteen perfectly fine. With that, but some people are

986
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: going to say you can't take a slot only you

987
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 2: know at you know in the top that's a second

988
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 2: round player. So I think Lemon's gonna be a great player,

989
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 2: just needs the opportunities.

990
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 3: And I like him quite a bit.

991
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 4: So do you think So I'm gonna talk.

992
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: I want to dig into the slot aspect of of

993
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: Lemon and just in general, like because Buka was another

994
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: player last year as you said, who like a lot

995
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: of people were profiling as a slot I remember, like

996
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: Robert Woods was one of.

997
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 4: His top comps in the in the zapp model and stuch.

998
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: But in my opinion, he landed in a spot where

999
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: the Buccaneers over the last five or six years have

1000
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: shown us that they don't really care about how like

1001
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: like they've used Chris Godwin inside out, they used Jalen

1002
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: McMillan inside out when McMillan right came out as what

1003
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: we thought was definitely a pure slot, and then they

1004
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: did the same thing with Abuka where him coming out where.

1005
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 4: They're doing the New York Giants thing.

1006
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: Man, they're doing the the Buffalo Bills thing where they're

1007
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: just grabbing all these these what these these what we

1008
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: think are slots and then they're you know, playing on

1009
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: the outside and they're able to develop on the outside,

1010
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: Like do you think that can happen for Mackay Lemon?

1011
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,240
Speaker 1: Like my, my sort of like philosophy and a little

1012
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: has always been and just process wise because JSN you

1013
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: could throw in this discussion to a degree as well,

1014
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: because he was you know, he played primary a lot

1015
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: in the slot in college. But like a team spending

1016
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: that kind of capital, would you agree would then likely

1017
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: want to use the guy in a full time capacity

1018
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: in some way?

1019
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 4: Like is that the way we should be viewing this?

1020
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: And maybe there are some struggles for Lemon on the

1021
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: outside whenever he transitions to the NFL, but at least

1022
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: he would be there from like a volume perspective or

1023
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 1: just like a route run perspective to be able to

1024
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 1: get some of that production that in other spots he

1025
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: might not.

1026
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 4: Be able to get if he didn't have that draft capital.

1027
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question, right because I think, yeah,

1028
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 2: you're going to have some sort of assumption that teams

1029
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 2: are going to have a plan, which is why the

1030
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: people who are like, of course you draft running backs

1031
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 2: in the first round, they all run for x number

1032
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: of yards. It's like, yeah, of course they were first

1033
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: round running backs. They're going to get fed. We have

1034
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: to confirm our priors, we have to. So there's definitely

1035
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 2: that element with Lemon, and I would rather position it

1036
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: as I would assume, like if the ram are going

1037
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: to take him and he you know, they used tight

1038
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: splits and they you know, Puoka was a slot outside

1039
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 2: hybrid and Lemon's a smaller version of that, but like

1040
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 2: he can make it work, right, I would assume the

1041
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 2: team is going to make it work, and it might

1042
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 2: not be forced X receiver reps necessarily, because the thing

1043
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 2: about Lemon is the Notre Dame game where they have

1044
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: Leonard Moore, who's like six to two terodactyl, future top

1045
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 2: ten pick, and he's pressing Makai Lemon, and they pressed

1046
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 2: him over thirty times in that game, and early on

1047
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 2: Lemon's winning he whopped more on a slant and twice

1048
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 2: one was a catch and run one.

1049
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 3: He just didn't get targeted.

1050
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 2: But after that point, as soon as Moore got hands

1051
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 2: on with his length, like Lemon was done. Like your

1052
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: speed disappears, you have no more quickness, And I think

1053
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: Lemon has just such great Christmas and you know, to

1054
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: his routes and everything like he is he's a very

1055
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 2: very good football player. But this is like a very

1056
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: specific If you ask him to be an outside receiver

1057
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 2: against long NFL corners, it's probably gonna be a challenge.

1058
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 2: But I'll assume that the drafting team also knows that, yeah,

1059
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 2: that they're gonna move you know, Z receiver, move him around,

1060
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: move him in the slot, and he'll get his volume.

1061
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 2: So I think he's going to be an excellent, productive

1062
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 2: NFL football player.

1063
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: And then with Jordan Tyson, it does seem like like

1064
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: I'm reading mocks and seeing what people like. Now that

1065
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: the Prospect Guide is out, my takes are out there,

1066
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: so now I want to see what other people are saying,

1067
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: right Yeah. And with Tyson, there's a lot of phrasing

1068
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: of this guy would be the and it sounds like

1069
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: you're not quite there, as like this guy would be

1070
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: the consensus wide receiver one you know in this class

1071
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: if not for the medicals. My my thing though with

1072
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: this is like I just don't know how to measure

1073
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: the medicals, right. I don't know if anyone necessarily does, right, Yeah,

1074
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: And it's it's just a tough thing to wrap my

1075
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: head around. I'm sure you two to a degree being

1076
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: an analytical minded person. Where you know, Tyson had the

1077
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: knee injury and he came back at his I think

1078
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 1: his his junior season was the best age I mean

1079
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: my I think object actively the best age adjusted productive

1080
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: season of this entire class. Like that was that season

1081
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: was just incredible. Then he gets hurt again. Of course

1082
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: it was a collarbone that year. Yeah, but like he

1083
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: bounced back, he showed that bounce back ability. But now

1084
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: there's this hamstring and what's that all gonna look?

1085
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 3: Like?

1086
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: My question though, is that, like do you think he

1087
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: has just as I have a ceiling or a higher

1088
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: ceiling than these other guys, Like, is that there is

1089
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: that part of what you're seeing with him or do

1090
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 1: you really think that that he's part of that Carnal

1091
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: Tait mackay Lemon tear if you will.

1092
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 4: But he's just gonna be knocked down because of the medicals.

1093
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: So, like his talent level would be the same as

1094
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: these other guys, obviously different wide receivers, but the medicals

1095
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: would be what would just naturally push him down.

1096
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's in that top tier talent wise

1097
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 2: and production wise or projected productive production wise. The medical

1098
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 2: piece is absolutely something all you can do. I mean,

1099
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 2: we're going to do this on our show. We're trying.

1100
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of all the scenarios that we

1101
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 2: sat there and debated forever years ago, you know, Saquanta

1102
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 2: two or yeah, Joe Walt versus Malik neighbors for the Chargers,

1103
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 2: who should you draft tackle a receiver? And I want

1104
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 2: to go back and like rehash some of these stories,

1105
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 2: like what did we say at the time? What ended

1106
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 2: up happening? But the injury one is something too, like

1107
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: how many yes bright red injury you know crosses have

1108
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 2: we seen next to a player's name and did it work?

1109
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: Or this guy's got chronic knee, chronic shoulder, to degenerative

1110
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: hip or whatever it was? And interesting looking back, like

1111
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 2: we thought this was a big deal and this guy

1112
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: played ten years or whatever it was, but we don't know,

1113
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 2: like we don't really know. And then you get into

1114
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 2: it and it's like, well, some teams care and some

1115
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 2: teams don't. We get into the Max Crosby failed physical thing,

1116
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 2: like some team's gonna care, some team's not going to care,

1117
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 2: or maybe whatever the Ravens did. So like I've talked

1118
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: to teams where this guy's off our board and then

1119
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 2: these on their team five years later, you know what

1120
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 2: I mean, Like you just it is tough when you

1121
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 2: don't know. But again, when you're talking about I like

1122
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: to eliminate uncertainty. Yeah, that's where there's some uncertainty here,

1123
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: and until we know it's it's a bit of a question.

1124
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you ever do that and and

1125
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: go through a lot of that medical stuff, like I

1126
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 1: think it's fascinating because it just seems like it's just

1127
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: this like generally accepted fact, you know of like oh

1128
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: the hamstring, Oh yeah, medicals they're bad.

1129
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 3: But like, I don't know.

1130
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: How often this stuff actually ends up mattering in the

1131
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: way that we speak about it. You know. There's like

1132
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: there was the U Concepcion n scope that happened recently,

1133
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: and I got a question on a show like are

1134
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: you concerned, And I'm like, if this happened to an

1135
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: NFL player, no one would even remotely. It happens all

1136
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: the time, you know, And so like it's just a

1137
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: really interesting balance because it part what I'm basically getting at.

1138
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: And yes, the model loves Jordan Tyson, So I'm trying

1139
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: to poke holes in this to make sure that.

1140
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 4: I am well rounded with the take right.

1141
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,919
Speaker 1: But part of this for me, with the injury stuff

1142
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: with Tyson, is just like, yeah, I don't I don't

1143
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: know how much I'm supposed to be weighing this stuff.

1144
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: I don't know how much this stuff matters. And we

1145
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: got to try to figure this out at least like

1146
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,439
Speaker 1: in a in an objective way so that we can.

1147
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 4: Approach it right, you know, moving forward. But yeah, it's tough, man, Yeah,

1148
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 4: it's really really difficult.

1149
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Denzel Boston kind of kind of touched

1150
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: on him for a second and your eyes. Is he

1151
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: closer to those guys we just talked about, or you

1152
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: can talk about Omar Cooper here too, because I think

1153
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: it's in the from a projected draft capital standpoint kind

1154
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: of in that same area. But is Boston closer to

1155
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: to those earlier round guys or closer to the bigger

1156
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: bodied you know, Chris Bell, Chris Brasel type players that

1157
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: might go round two.

1158
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: It's such an interesting group of names. I would say

1159
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 2: Boston's closer to the top. But the reason why Bell

1160
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: and Brasl are lower Bell's injury, right, And I don't

1161
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 2: know if you've gotten around. I hate doing this, but

1162
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 2: the Brasl character.

1163
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 4: Information, I haven't dug into the Brassl.

1164
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,879
Speaker 3: It's it's more like I don't dig into it.

1165
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I haven't even I didn't realize.

1166
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, with Brasel and in my world where I'm not

1167
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 2: looking for it, it only comes up when it's really bad, right,

1168
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: And the few times it's been really bad have been

1169
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 2: Jermaine Burton, who I loved as a football player but

1170
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 2: knew it was bad off field, and Pierce Like those

1171
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 2: are the couple names that have come up over the

1172
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 2: last couple years. So that's Brasel. I they're big bodied,

1173
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 2: really athletic people. I think Boston's a very good receiver. Yeah,

1174
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: he is a very good receiver. And I know every

1175
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 2: time we put him in a mock to Buffalo and

1176
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,919
Speaker 2: fans are like PTSD, No, this is the next key

1177
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 2: on Coleman, Like, he is not Keon Coleman. He's an

1178
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: outside receiver who moves well, with really good ball skills,

1179
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 2: with really good hands and for a six four, two

1180
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 2: hundred and twelve pounder, he's better at the movement and

1181
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 2: all the things that you think he might be slow.

1182
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 2: I mean, remember there was a time in the early

1183
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 2: two thousands where every next big receiver was going to

1184
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 2: be a next great receiver is going to be six

1185
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 2: four to twenty. It was like the new age of receiver.

1186
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: And half of them became Calvin Johnson or that you

1187
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 2: know great. Half of them became greater Calvin Johnson and

1188
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 2: Julio Jones, and then the other ones were just big,

1189
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 2: slow and couldn't separate, like there was no middle ground, right,

1190
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,439
Speaker 2: And so I think you that sense like it's either

1191
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 2: this guy is the next star or he can't separate,

1192
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: and Boston's like somewhere in between, Like he's just a

1193
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: good I came away watching Carnell Tate thinking he's good

1194
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 2: at Everything's just good, like good feel for the game,

1195
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 2: works back to the box subtleties of the position.

1196
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 3: I think Boston has that good scrambled drill. I thought

1197
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 3: he was a good fit for Mahomes. Yeah. I think

1198
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 3: he's got a great feel when the play breaks down,

1199
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 3: just for finding space. And I always thought he'd be

1200
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 3: like if the Chiefs took him at twenty nine, I

1201
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 3: think that'd be a really good fit. Yeah, for Kansas

1202
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 3: City for what they need. So I like Boston. I

1203
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 3: think he's not key On Coleman. He's not Nikhil Harry.

1204
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 2: I'd say he's closer to Courtland Sutton, yeah, than he

1205
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 2: is either of those two guys that.

1206
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: Was the top two comps in the in the model,

1207
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: where Jaden Higgins and Courtland Sutton.

1208
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:42,399
Speaker 4: So it's that good.

1209
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1210
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: I liked Higgins too. I think he's gonna be fine.

1211
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 2: Every time he was open, he got overthrown last year,

1212
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,720
Speaker 2: so he'll be fine. I think that's fair for Boston.

1213
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 2: So he's he's a first round player.

1214
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

1215
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: Are you enter out on Zachariah Branch this one?

1216
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 4: This one's really interesting to me.

1217
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 2: I had to go back and rewatch more of him,

1218
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 2: you know, I got to be out on him. I

1219
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 2: think I think he's too slot Machinie. I think he's

1220
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 2: he's too gadgety. Who's Yeah, he just is and so

1221
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 2: the so the gadget things interesting Like when I was

1222
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 2: watching Puka a few years ago, he doesn't. He never

1223
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 2: looked athletic at BUYU. There was some in game athleticism

1224
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 2: numbers that loved him. And by the way, the Rams

1225
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 2: are like all in on those metrics and they got him.

1226
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 2: But I remember watching Puka thinking he doesn't feel athletic,

1227
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 2: but they're given him jet sweep.

1228
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:32,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1229
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 2: And I always thought that there's signal in that when

1230
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 2: a but that's like when a regular receiver is doing that,

1231
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: not when your.

1232
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 3: Whole game is built around that. That's when I have concerns.

1233
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 3: So I don't. I don't think Branch does enough true

1234
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 3: wide receiver things to feel great about his projection.

1235
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: When you do some and look, I get really tilted

1236
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: by like the threshold analysis that we see on Twitter

1237
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 1: all the time with with analytics and stuff, and and

1238
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 1: you know, to be fair, a lot of that is

1239
00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: in the prospect guy. But but the problem with a

1240
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: lot of threshold stuff is that people will just take

1241
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: the minimum number for that player, right, and like they're

1242
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: not capturing the proper sample for it. But if you

1243
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: look at players who like Zach Branch from a if

1244
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: you at least look back to twenty twenty and look

1245
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: at some PFF data and like behind the line of scrimmage,

1246
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: target share and stuff like and target rate and stuff

1247
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 1: like that, for day two picks, he's literally an outlier,

1248
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: and it's in a really bad way.

1249
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 3: You know.

1250
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, the Anthony Schwartzes of the world and

1251
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: the Malachi Corley's and all these players who just you know,

1252
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,439
Speaker 1: they they're fun to watch and they're exciting, but it's

1253
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: just not there's not the type that that.

1254
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 4: Translate very well.

1255
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: It's funny that you brought up the like sort of

1256
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: manufactured rushing work and touches that way, because the Zamodel

1257
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: wide receiver factors in rushing production.

1258
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 4: It caps it like, I don't we don't need five

1259
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 4: hundred rushing yards.

1260
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: Just sure were they used in this extra way because

1261
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 1: it's likely a talent signal of they're trying to get

1262
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: in the ball in these unique ways. As long as

1263
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: there is that, you know, general like wide receiver, you're

1264
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 1: just a normal wide receipt profile like Lad McConkey had that.

1265
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 1: You know, there's players in this class, you know Omar

1266
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: Cooper's had has it a little bit. You know in

1267
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: this class, Skyler Bell had one season where he had

1268
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,399
Speaker 1: like one hundred and sixty rushing yards one year.

1269
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 4: So there's there's some of that that goes. But when

1270
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 4: you get to this in this kind of arch type

1271
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:17,919
Speaker 4: you start to get into.

1272
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: Like the only guys that have really like hit if

1273
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,439
Speaker 1: you will, are Wandell Robinson and Luther Burden. But both

1274
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: of those guys had much better like age justin production,

1275
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: like they were fantastic immediately in college.

1276
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 2: Burden's entire career wasn't that right, It almost went at

1277
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 2: the end. He was more h his his manufacturing touched.

1278
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 4: This was bizarre.

1279
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 1: They just didn't know how to use him in college

1280
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: and you had to, like, I mean, my model loved

1281
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: him just because the Age of Justice, I mean, sophomore

1282
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: season was incredible. But yeah, I mean it was like

1283
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,879
Speaker 1: he was he was used like Wandell Robinson. Yeah, which

1284
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 1: is crazy because he just doesn't need to be used

1285
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 1: that way. And Wandell we didn't know what he could

1286
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 1: do until this year. They started running him up the

1287
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: seam and right, Russ and Jamis were willing to row

1288
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: the ball to him in those situations. And the other

1289
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: guy that remind the pre data era, you know, Ted Ginn.

1290
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: When he came out of Ohio State, he felt very

1291
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: manufactured touch like at Ohio State and I remember thinking, well,

1292
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: this is like this top recruit. He was supposed to

1293
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: be like the number one receiver or corner in the

1294
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: in his draft and his recruiting class, and he goes

1295
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: to Ohio State and he felt very gimmicky, and I'm like,

1296
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: if he's this good, even just as a fan, I'm thinking,

1297
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: if he's this good, I feel like he should do

1298
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: more receiver things. And I always felt like they were

1299
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: just trying to get the ball in his hands and

1300
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 1: it just was too much. Yeah, And I get that

1301
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: sense with Branch.

1302
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 2: I wonder, you know, he's got good punt return ability

1303
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 2: and everything, it just feels more like a third or

1304
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 2: later round pick.

1305
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 3: And I don't know if there's that role, Like I

1306
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 3: don't think there's that role in the NFL, whether for

1307
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 3: a second round gadget player.

1308
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, you at least need the development.

1309
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: You could even throw like Curtis Samuel in that bucket,

1310
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: you know, like where yeah, likes a good one someone

1311
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: who just needs like he got better, right, Like we

1312
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: got to give him props for just becoming a better

1313
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: player and being able to do more than what he

1314
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: showed like as a prospect and how he.

1315
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 4: Was deployed to prospect. And maybe that happens with Zach branch.

1316
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 1: But I mean he's getting Mikol Hardman comms right now,

1317
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 1: and it's just it's a little bit scary, you know.

1318
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 2: I mean I liked Hardman a little bit of a man.

1319
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 2: I'll throw the late Rondel Moore as another guy that

1320
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,919
Speaker 2: I struggled with. I mean he had he was super small, yep.

1321
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 2: But how many times did you say, well, this is

1322
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 2: the most dynamic player on the field. Crazy production, But

1323
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 2: can he play actual receiver? And I think yeah, that

1324
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:26,879
Speaker 2: was always a struggle. Plus all the injuries, yep.

1325
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 4: Definitely.

1326
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: Is there any any wide receiver just general value that

1327
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: you see in this class that we haven't talked about.

1328
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 2: So it's funny because really quick on Omar Cooper, Yeah,

1329
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 2: I mean he came into the season as wide receiver

1330
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 2: two to Elijah Sarrat at Indiana, and Cooper caught my

1331
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 2: eye watching twenty four film because he averaged over twenty

1332
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 2: yards per catch. He only had thirty catches or something

1333
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:49,959
Speaker 2: like that, but he was making plays down the field.

1334
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:51,720
Speaker 2: And then this year they use him after the catch,

1335
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 2: like he was featured more this year, but sarat was

1336
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 2: the number one and I still think he's pretty good.

1337
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 2: I think he's a good player. I think he's not

1338
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 2: the most ath guy. He looked a little bit quicker

1339
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: this year than I think in previous years. He had

1340
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 2: a big catch and run against Oregon in the first

1341
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 2: game I think showed you know, he's moved better this

1342
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 2: year than he was previously. He's great and contested situations,

1343
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 2: and Mendoza trusted him a lot. So I like sarat As,

1344
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: you know, a mid round type of guy, and Eric

1345
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 2: McCallister out of TCU as always because the models I

1346
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 2: do model, I model for college teams for the portal,

1347
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 2: so I do some college advising and NFL draft consulting

1348
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 2: for NFL teams and McCalla I've been doing the portal

1349
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 2: thing for like three years and he's always like at

1350
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 2: the top he's been, so he's been. I've been watching

1351
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 2: him at the top of my lists for a while

1352
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 2: now and he's still I think underrated, physical, catch and

1353
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 2: run type of guy.

1354
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,280
Speaker 3: So I like McCallister. There may have been some character

1355
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 3: questions on him too, but yeah, he pops for me

1356
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 3: as well.

1357
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, he has I have a breakout scores my

1358
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 1: main metric at wide receiver, and he was top five

1359
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: in the class amongst you know, Tyson and Tate and Lemon, and.

1360
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 2: We got to compare models here, JJ, we get us

1361
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 2: see we do where things, where things converge.

1362
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 4: We do, man, we do.

1363
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 1: The McAllister thing is is interesting. He did have like

1364
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 1: a gun charge like a couple of years.

1365
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 3: Is that what? Yeah?

1366
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there was something.

1367
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 2: Again I try to avoid, i mean, not even finding

1368
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 2: out about that stuff, but I'm not going to dig

1369
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 2: for stuff. If it comes to you, you have it,

1370
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 2: But then you have uneven character information on players.

1371
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 3: You only have the negatives, so it's tough to right.

1372
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: That's where I'm just like, let's just see what happens

1373
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: in the draft. You know, Isaiah Bond goes undrafted last

1374
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: year and then you're like, oh right, all right, well

1375
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 1: then yeah there's stuff going on here, right, all right?

1376
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 1: Two questions, real quick, tight end, really fast. Kenny sadik

1377
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: Eli Stowers. Do you feel like they're close? Do you

1378
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 1: think Sadiq is kind of in his own tier in

1379
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: this class? Like I've been looking at it seems like

1380
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: the fantasy community is higher on stours than what consensus

1381
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: mock drafts are generally showing where he's like fiftieth overall

1382
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: in a lot of these where there are some people

1383
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 1: who just like him more than Sadik straight up.

1384
00:57:57,840 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 4: So I'm curious where you're at with the tight ends

1385
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 4: and the top of the class.

1386
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 3: I do like Stours.

1387
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 2: I think my friend Mike Renner, former PFF first currently

1388
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 2: at CBS, I mean, he's just straight calling him a

1389
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 2: wide receiver. He's just saying he's a six four, two

1390
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty pound wide receiver and he runs four

1391
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 2: five four five one, which is reasonable for that size.

1392
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 3: He just can't block right and right. You're not, you're not.

1393
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 2: There's no fantasy points for blocking, but we know that

1394
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 2: there's signal and just getting on the field and everything.

1395
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 2: And I think that would be the struggle for Stours

1396
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 2: is you know, he has to be a move tight end,

1397
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 2: big slot, so there's a role for him. You just

1398
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 2: have to carve the role for him. I think he's

1399
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 2: an excellent receiver though, really productive ball skills, athletic body control,

1400
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 2: so I like him a lot. Sadik is fascinating because

1401
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 2: he's got power to block and he's got some incredible

1402
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 2: run blocks on film. But he's small relative to other

1403
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 2: wide tight end, so he also might be in more

1404
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 2: of a brock Bowers, you know, move tight end.

1405
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 3: Slot type of role. The other thing with Sadik like

1406
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 3: he just doesn't have a ton of pure route running

1407
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 3: reps either at organ like a lot of his ilight

1408
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 3: really he's just running through busted coverages. But he's really athletic.

1409
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 3: He's good after the catch, he's jacked. I want to

1410
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 3: see him at running back.

1411
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 2: I want to see the debo comps that everybody throws around.

1412
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 3: I want to see Sadik in the backfield. Yeah for somebody.

1413
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 3: I don't know if he's got the instincts to do it,

1414
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 3: but I'd.

1415
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 2: Love to see if the two hundred and forty pounder

1416
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 2: could just be like a change of pace runner because

1417
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 2: that breaks defenses because you can't it's tough to match

1418
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 2: up when a receiver or tight end goes into the backfield.

1419
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 2: That's why the debo thing was was so successful. So

1420
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 2: I like Sadiq as a first rounder. I think stours

1421
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 2: it's like like Harold fannin last year. Yeah, I kind

1422
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 2: of want to come out of the draft with him

1423
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 2: on my team. Yeah, I'd prefer that it was in

1424
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 2: the third round, but I think it could be in

1425
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 2: the second so I like Stours as much as I

1426
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 2: liked fan in last year, which is I want this guy.

1427
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 2: I think he'll be a receiving weapon, but Sadiq is

1428
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 2: a better, i'd say, all around player.

1429
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 3: Therefore there has to be some separation between the two.

1430
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's all our model sees it too.

1431
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: All right, last question before I let you go, give

1432
00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 1: me a hot take for this year's NFL draft.

1433
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 2: All right, non fantasy related? Is man, I just don't.

1434
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 2: I don't think I want to draft Arvel Reese in

1435
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 2: the top again. I'm an uncertainty guy. He hasn't done

1436
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 2: it on the edge yet. David Bailey and Ruben Bain

1437
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 2: have so I'd rather have those guys than Arvel Reese.

1438
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 2: And Reese's twenty and projectable, Yeah, does all these great things.

1439
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 2: He's just I don't know if I want to convert

1440
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 2: him to an edge rusher and project that so awesome?

1441
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:26,959
Speaker 3: Is that hot enough? I don't have hot takes here.

1442
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 4: JJ, No, that's I mean. I don't do hot takes either.

1443
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: I just always on the show to make people feel

1444
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: uncomfortable about a take that they, you know, have to

1445
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: have to throw out there on the show.

1446
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 4: But man, This is great. I appreciate you.

1447
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 3: Good good timing. The kids have broken in yok.

1448
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 4: Like you and I were East Coast dads, and I

1449
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 4: get it.

1450
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 3: I get it. Yeah, all part of it.

1451
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 1: But before you go, let everyone know where they can

1452
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: find you, what you're working on, all that great stuff.

1453
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, shows, check the mic, anywhere you listen to your podcast.

1454
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 2: We're on YouTube, check the mic. We're gonna have a

1455
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 2: little home and home. We'll have you breaking down the

1456
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 2: running backs with us. So that's all working on right now.

1457
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 2: A bunch of secret stuff for NFL in college aims

1458
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 2: as a consultant.

1459
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 4: Awesome.

1460
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 3: That's it.

1461
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 1: Awesome man. Oh, I appreciate your time. I appreciate the analysis.

1462
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: I think others will as well. As always, guys, check

1463
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 1: out Lateround dot com. Make sure you're checking out the

1464
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 1: Prospect Guide otherwise, thanks for tuning in.