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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.

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Speaker 1: Showed us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, trust me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 2: I've never lived to you, and if you think that

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Speaker 2: one person has all the answers, don't welcome to trust Me.

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Speaker 2: The podcast about cult, extreme belief and manipulation from two

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Speaker 2: historians who've actually experienced it. I am Low LeBlanc and

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Speaker 2: I am Megan Elizabeth. And guys, we changed it to manipulation.

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Speaker 2: We thought it would better captured of the broader scope

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Speaker 2: of what we're trying to talk about here. It's not

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Speaker 2: just abuse of power, it's also all forms of manipulation.

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Speaker 2: So we did a little name change.

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Speaker 1: Well maybe name I like it.

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Speaker 2: I like it too. Let us know if you approve

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Speaker 2: rate us five stars. Today, our guest is Joanne Viega,

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Speaker 2: survivor of the Branch Davidians and the Waco massacre.

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Speaker 1: We're going to.

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Speaker 2: Discuss her earliest memories of living on the compound in Waco, Texas,

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Speaker 2: what cult leader David Koresh was like in person, and

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Speaker 2: what it was like when the siege began, and why

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Speaker 2: fear wasn't the emotion she felt when she saw all

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Speaker 2: the dead bodies.

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Speaker 1: She'll tell us how her mom bravely acted to protect

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Speaker 1: her and get her safely out, even though it went

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Speaker 1: against everything they'd been taught, the terrifying transition period afterward,

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Speaker 1: and learning about the fire that killed seventy six people,

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Speaker 1: including her own parents, plus what her life's like now

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Speaker 1: and how she's thriving despite being told by adults that

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Speaker 1: she wouldn't.

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Speaker 2: Is this a very emotional interview, be warned. But she's

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Speaker 2: amazing and I can't wait to get into it. So

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Speaker 2: we thought, instead of doing cultiest thing this week, we

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Speaker 2: would just kind of give a little background on the

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Speaker 2: branch Davidians, because some of you young folk might not

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Speaker 2: be familiar with this at the time. Very significant culturally

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Speaker 2: the story nineteen ninety three, y'all are too young. You're

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Speaker 2: born in like two thousand three.

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Speaker 1: Producer Steve has given us nineteen ninety three updates.

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Speaker 2: He's obsessed with my French.

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Speaker 1: Became a symbole Snoop dog relea Is to his first album. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so some shit was happening, but some other tragic shit

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Speaker 1: was also happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this was right up there with Heaven's Gate and

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Speaker 2: the Manson Family. This was a huge, major, major event.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people died. So just to give you

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Speaker 2: some contexts, let's start sort of at the beginning. This

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Speaker 2: is by no means a thorough history of this group

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Speaker 2: at all. The branch Davidians, this is present tense.

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Speaker 3: They still exist.

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Speaker 2: They still exist.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so they are an apocalyptic religious group. They were

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Speaker 2: founded in nineteen fifty five by Benjamin Rodent. They were

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Speaker 2: a branch off of the Seventh day Adventists originally. Over time,

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Speaker 2: the leadership changed hands. And that's something I always find

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Speaker 2: really interesting is the trajectory of a cult's leadership because spoiler,

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Speaker 2: most self proclaimed profits don't actually live forever, so they

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Speaker 2: need to be succeeded by someone. And in this case,

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Speaker 2: David Krush not the leader originally of this cult at all.

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Speaker 2: He shows up. He was a very religious young man.

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Speaker 2: He had an illegal sexual relationship with a young girl.

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Speaker 2: He did poorly in school. He shows up to this

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Speaker 2: existing group and it is speculated that the woman who

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Speaker 2: led it at the time, Lois Roden, who was in

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Speaker 2: her sixties. It is speculated that he began a sexual

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Speaker 2: relationship with her.

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Speaker 1: And her son wanted to take over.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he was supposed to be the new.

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Speaker 1: Prophet because her husband died.

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Speaker 2: It was supposed to be George Roden. He was going

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Speaker 2: to be the next leader. David Koresh comes in and

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Speaker 2: his name was not David Koresh at the time. He

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Speaker 2: changed his name. We'll just refer to him by the

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Speaker 2: name we all know him as. Comes in and starts

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Speaker 2: trying to take over this group. And now there's this

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Speaker 2: rivalry between these two guys, which is again, this happens

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Speaker 2: in so many Mormon cults. It's so interesting to see

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Speaker 2: these themes of like rival prophets and also polygamy and

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Speaker 2: underage brides in a non Mormon cult. I really felt

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Speaker 2: like these were.

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Speaker 1: I think he took it a notch above the rest

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Speaker 1: and did probably one of the craziest things I've ever

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Speaker 1: heard in my entire life, where he challenged the other

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Speaker 1: one to a duel of resurrecting the dead. He said,

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Speaker 1: whichever one of us can resurrect a dead body first

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Speaker 1: will be the person who takes over this cult. So

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Speaker 1: then the other guy, George, is like, great, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: He gets a dead body, and then David calls the

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Speaker 1: police and is like he's defiling a dead body and

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Speaker 1: the police are like, what are you doing with this

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Speaker 1: dead body? And George is like, what, no, I promise

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Speaker 1: it's this is real.

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Speaker 4: So he's like, if you can't resurrect a body, like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 4: he just like took the body thing completely away, and

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Speaker 4: just like he trolled George to make him look insane

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Speaker 4: with the police, George got arrested for like messing around

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Speaker 4: with a dead body.

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Speaker 1: And David had the place to himself.

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Speaker 2: So in nineteen eighty nine, and this is how he

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Speaker 2: actually ended up in jail for real, George Roden murdered

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Speaker 2: this man Wayman Dale Adare with an axe blow to

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Speaker 2: the skull after Adare stated his belief that he himself

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Speaker 2: was the true Messiah. Totally different guy Rodin claimed the

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Speaker 2: man was sent by Koresh to kill him, and Rodin

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Speaker 2: was then judged insane and confined to a psychiatric hospital.

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Speaker 2: So basically, he's trying to pin it on Koresh, but

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Speaker 2: he's the one who gets confined to a psychiatric hospital.

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Speaker 2: This rivalry between these men is like incredibly interesting. So

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Speaker 2: fast forward. Now they have this group, they're living on

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Speaker 2: this compound together. They moved a few times, whatever, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter. Now it's starting to come out that there

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Speaker 2: are children who are being abused by him. His doctrine

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Speaker 2: of the House of David led to quote marriages with

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Speaker 2: both married and single women, And this is sort of,

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Speaker 2: at least from my understanding, this is one of the

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Speaker 2: things that kind of begins the investigation into the group

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Speaker 2: in general. There are at these allegations which seem to

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Speaker 2: be most likely true, and that is how we end

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Speaker 2: up nineteen ninety three, if you want to.

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Speaker 1: Look more into it. There was also something that happened

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Speaker 1: six months before that with Ruby Ray, where it was

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Speaker 1: kind of a similar thing, smaller and it's devastation, but

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Speaker 1: you can just kind of see where the world was

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Speaker 1: at at that time. And these two instances were what

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Speaker 1: Timothy McVeigh quoted as being the reason that he and

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Speaker 1: his partner did the Oklahoma City bombing.

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Speaker 2: Lots of contact with this cult incredibly significant moment in

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Speaker 2: the culture. Incredibly tragic and a total, absolute shit show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah on the part of the authorities. I mean, what

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Speaker 2: a fucking fuck up. Yeah, totally unnecessary. So anyway, that

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Speaker 2: brings us to now, and that brings us to our

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Speaker 2: conversation with Joanne.

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Speaker 1: Get your tissues ready, she is so plunderful.

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Speaker 2: Here we go. Welcome Joanne Viega to trust me. Thank you,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being here. I'm I'm really excited to

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Speaker 2: have you on today and also a little bit scared

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Speaker 2: that we're all gonna cry because your story is oh, oh,

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Speaker 2: it is a lot. It is wild. Started at the beginning,

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Speaker 2: So you basically grew up as a branch Davidian when

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Speaker 2: you were a young child. Do you have a sense

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Speaker 2: of like how your parents came to follow David Koresh.

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Speaker 3: Well, from what I gather, my parents were living in

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Speaker 3: Hawaii and David was at a church doing his normal

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Speaker 3: sermon and my mom I want to say that it

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Speaker 3: was my mom again, I had to hear this secondhand

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Speaker 3: from my sister because my parents are no longer around,

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Speaker 3: and I want to say it was my mom who

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Speaker 3: was just looking for something a little bit more in

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Speaker 3: life and more purpose, and so when she found David

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Speaker 3: and he was, you know, such a good speaker, she

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Speaker 3: kind of just was like, this is the way we're going.

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Speaker 3: We're going this way, and my dad and I had

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Speaker 3: to follow. So I don't really again, I don't really

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Speaker 3: know how it happened, but I you know, I think

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Speaker 3: everyone gets to the point where in their life where

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Speaker 3: you're kind of like asking yourself, like what do I do?

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Speaker 3: What's going on? Is all?

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Speaker 2: What's the meaning?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's where she was, and just

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Speaker 3: by chance she met.

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Speaker 2: Dated incredibly charismatic man comes along who's also I was

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Speaker 2: surprised to see how handsome he was. Am I allowed

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Speaker 2: to say that, I feel like he's very which which

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Speaker 2: helps I do. I really do think that that's a

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Speaker 2: very important gathering followers.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, What was his message? I was kind of trying

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Speaker 1: to start from the beginning, so I see that it

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Speaker 1: began a little bit. Second Coming of Christ was a

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Speaker 1: lot of his predecessors. Was that his thing as well?

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Speaker 1: Or did he kind of leave.

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Speaker 3: That b I want to say if I because I

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Speaker 3: did a little bit of research on this too, and

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Speaker 3: I want to say because in the beginning, his rhetoric

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Speaker 3: was very I have the answers, I can show you,

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Speaker 3: you know, what your purpose in life is. And it

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Speaker 3: wasn't until later that he kind of changed his verbiage

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Speaker 3: and starts saying like I am the Son of God,

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Speaker 3: like I am the miracle and the answer. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's changed. I don't know the exact year, but you

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Speaker 3: do if you watch the progress of it. It kind

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Speaker 3: of starts with like, you know, we're a family, we

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Speaker 3: can all, you know, love God together, and it was

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Speaker 3: very inviting. And then somewhere along the lines you can

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Speaker 3: kind of notice that he started putting himself as the Messiah.

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Speaker 3: And you know, when you look at it now, all

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Speaker 3: these flags are very clear, but I think when you're

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Speaker 3: in the middle of it, you don't really notice these

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Speaker 3: small little changes that happened totally.

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Speaker 2: It's over time. It's like a long ongoing process. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, little thing isn't going to raise that

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Speaker 2: many red flags, of course, and then it's just like

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Speaker 2: another little thing.

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Speaker 1: Do you think he believed what he was saying or

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Speaker 1: do you think he was more conning.

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Speaker 3: That's a hard one. If I could give him the

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Speaker 3: benefit of the doubt, and the only reason why I

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Speaker 3: do that is because I I feel I wasn't there,

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Speaker 3: so I really don't know. I want to say that

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Speaker 3: he did believe in the beginning that he could help

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Speaker 3: a lot of people and that he could bring everyone

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Speaker 3: together and under the house of God. That's just a

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Speaker 3: common ground that everyone's on. And I do believe that

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Speaker 3: he started off like that. But then I do believe

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Speaker 3: if you watch he you can see that shift of like,

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Speaker 3: all these people are listening to me, I have the

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Speaker 3: absolute word, I can control all these people. And then

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Speaker 3: I believe it came to like an absolute con whether

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Speaker 3: it was him like one hundred percent being like I'm

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Speaker 3: going to do whatever the hell I want, or him

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Speaker 3: being like, oh, I don't know, let's test the waters,

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Speaker 3: but I do think it did switch.

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Speaker 2: It is interesting. I wonder if you or me, for example,

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Speaker 2: like suddenly had a bunch of people who are like,

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Speaker 2: we believe everything you say, you are our profit or whatever, like,

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Speaker 2: if that had never happened in his life, would he

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Speaker 2: have just like lived a regular life. And it's almost

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Speaker 2: almost like how you know if you have certain mental

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Speaker 2: illness predisposals, if you do LSD, it might trigger it.

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Speaker 2: It makes me wonder like, if you have that kind

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Speaker 2: of power over people, does that suddenly trigger this like

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Speaker 2: sociopathic side of you?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would definitely say yes. I think that that's

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Speaker 3: something that maybe we all possess. But I think in

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Speaker 3: people like David who are just so very gifted in

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Speaker 3: the gab area where yeah, just whatever he says, everyone's like,

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Speaker 3: oh my god. More you know, I think in his

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Speaker 3: little DNA structure, maybe it was just a.

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Speaker 1: Little yeah, it was.

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Speaker 2: He was there and it was waiting, but like it

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Speaker 2: got said off. Yeah. So let's talk about your own memories,

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Speaker 2: because this is the part I'm the most curious about.

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Speaker 2: So how old were you when you first were in

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Speaker 2: the Waco area?

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Speaker 3: I want to say maybe one or two? Wow, Okay,

246
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Speaker 3: I was very very young, I want to say, because

247
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Speaker 3: my sister was around when I was born. I was

248
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Speaker 3: born in Hawaii, and then when my mom decided to

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Speaker 3: move as to Texas, I don't think I was more

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Speaker 3: than two.

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Speaker 2: So your first memories then are probably.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have my first starting memories in Waco.

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Speaker 2: Wow, And what is that? What is that? Can I ask?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: No, I have little tidbits of just being alone. I

256
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Speaker 3: always like to describe it. I'm not sure if you

257
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Speaker 3: guys have seen those tea bag boxes that has like

258
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Speaker 3: the rolling hills and the woman's like picking tea. In

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Speaker 3: my mind, that's all I see is just like very,

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Speaker 3: very vast open fields. I was always by myself a

261
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Speaker 3: lot when I was younger. I don't remember having many

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Speaker 3: people around. I barely saw my father. I think the

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Speaker 3: earliest memory I have of him was us on a

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Speaker 3: motorcycle doing something we weren't supposed to be, just taking

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Speaker 3: a joy ride, which we weren't supposed to be doing.

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Speaker 3: But that's like the first and the most vivid memory

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Speaker 3: have of my dad. And I can't say that I

268
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Speaker 3: was more than five when that happened. Again, my timeline's

269
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Speaker 3: a little of course. Yeah. I just remember being alone

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Speaker 3: a lot in open fields and not really having anyone around,

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Speaker 3: which does sound a little odd when I say it

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Speaker 3: out loud.

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Speaker 1: What were your parents doing?

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Speaker 3: That's a really good question I want to say at

275
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Speaker 3: the time we were living. I'm not sure if you've

276
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Speaker 3: seen a picture of the compound or anywhere on the property,

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Speaker 3: but it's like basically this really long road and what

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Speaker 3: you guys I th even are used to seeing. Is

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Speaker 3: that really big white building right when you come down

280
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Speaker 3: the road. But before that was there, if you just

281
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Speaker 3: kept continuing down the road, we each had like houses,

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Speaker 3: little little houses, and ours was like the very last

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Speaker 3: one on this road. I want to say they were

284
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Speaker 3: worship you know, I've one had worship time or you

285
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Speaker 3: know what the loly correct thing to say is. But

286
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Speaker 3: they were never around. And then I do remember they

287
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Speaker 3: were all building the big I don't know what it's called, it,

288
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Speaker 3: the big white building, and so that one I really

289
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Speaker 3: have no clue where any adult was when I was little,

290
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Speaker 3: like it was just like, okay, hopefully a coyote doesn't

291
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Speaker 3: eat you, and then you come and eat you know,

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Speaker 3: it's like, okay.

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Speaker 2: That's so interesting. Was that lonely or was it kind

294
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Speaker 2: of peaceful?

295
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Speaker 3: I think it was really peaceful, And to me, when

296
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Speaker 3: I think about how independent I am and how solidarity

297
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Speaker 3: is really a driving force for me, I think it

298
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Speaker 3: really does stem from just having a lot of alone time.

299
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Speaker 3: And I didn't have a lot of influence from anyone else.

300
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Speaker 3: I just kind of wandered around and it was very peaceful.

301
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Speaker 3: I don't ever remember it being scary or upsetting that

302
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Speaker 3: no one was around. I found it really peaceful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as an introvert, it sounds quite heavenly right, live in.

304
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Speaker 3: The dream I do.

305
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Speaker 2: Some of my favorite memories because I grew up on

306
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Speaker 2: a farm for like six years of my early years

307
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 2: or whatever, and some of my favorite memories are like

308
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Speaker 2: just going off into the woods and like looking at

309
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Speaker 2: the blackberries and talking to.

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Speaker 1: The cows and turning over a rock and that was

311
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Speaker 1: always a fun one for me. Ooh, let's look this

312
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Speaker 1: rock exactly.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly what it was like.

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Speaker 2: What was your relationship with your mom like at that age?

315
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Speaker 2: I mean, you know you didn't see your dad that much.

316
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Speaker 2: Did you see your mom a little bit more than him?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I want to say my memories were of

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Speaker 3: my mom at a younger age was a little bit well,

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Speaker 3: I mean, since my dad wasn't around, she was the

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Speaker 3: one that was always disciplining. And yeah, I don't have

321
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,000
Speaker 3: like anything super scarring, but I definitely have a feeling

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Speaker 3: of like my mom was a sing It's like having

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Speaker 3: a single mom. She has to be the mom, the dad,

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Speaker 3: the babysitter, the everything. And it was always just fun

325
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Speaker 3: and games, did.

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Speaker 2: You have many interactions directly with David Koresh.

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Speaker 3: I did not, because I was not his child. He

328
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 3: was definitely more involved, and I felt like it was

329
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:20,240
Speaker 3: a little bit more segregated because his children obviously were

330
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Speaker 3: the son of the Messiahs, so they were you know,

331
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 3: very high end and the rest were not. So I

332
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,280
Speaker 3: don't have any really big interactions with him, but I

333
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:31,960
Speaker 3: do know that all of the ones I do have

334
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 3: are quite scary, so I try to kind of keep

335
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Speaker 3: those on the down low.

336
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Speaker 2: Can you tell us about some of them.

337
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember sneaking out my mom was in a

338
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Speaker 3: exercise class. We were upstairs somewhere in the big white building,

339
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Speaker 3: and I remember I wasn't supposed to be there, but

340
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,600
Speaker 3: I was looking for my mom and I kind of

341
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,600
Speaker 3: came in and I sat down right behind her, like

342
00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 3: everyone was facing the front of the room and I

343
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,000
Speaker 3: had sat down behind her and I was just, you know,

344
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 3: kind of playing around and she didn't really mind. And

345
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,600
Speaker 3: then David walked in and I just remember having like

346
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,919
Speaker 3: the fear of God put in me because it was like,

347
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,280
Speaker 3: I know, I wasn't supposed to be there. I was

348
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,040
Speaker 3: probably supposed to be at some worship time or whatever,

349
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,960
Speaker 3: and I was just stuck, and I remember my mom

350
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Speaker 3: kind of putting her hands behind her to kind of

351
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,399
Speaker 3: like silence me and be like, Okay, you need to

352
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,959
Speaker 3: stay still. And I just remember just like fearing for

353
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,120
Speaker 3: my life because that was that was after the time

354
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:39,679
Speaker 3: where really any adult could spank any child, what like

355
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,800
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. Oh yeah, they let any adults, you know,

356
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,679
Speaker 3: because I think the thought process was when the end

357
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,040
Speaker 3: of the world came and when these bad people came

358
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,360
Speaker 3: to kill us, that an adult, any adult was supposed

359
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,320
Speaker 3: to be able to have complete control over this child,

360
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,879
Speaker 3: to direct them or to you know, do whatever it

361
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 3: is that we needed to do in that moment. So

362
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,159
Speaker 3: all the children were conditioned to listen to any adult

363
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,439
Speaker 3: at the snap of a finger, and we all knew

364
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 3: that if we didn't, it was like severe spanking. And

365
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 3: so you feared basically every adult you came across, because

366
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,680
Speaker 3: if you did one thing wrong, that's like any adult

367
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 3: could be looking at you and that that's a spanking.

368
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Speaker 3: That's just that was it.

369
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Speaker 2: Well, I can imagine all that solitude was peaceful. Then.

370
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember getting spanked once by my mom's friend

371
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 1: on our way home from school. It was so traumatizing.

372
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Speaker 2: Like mom's friend.

373
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were like carpooling with this little girl in

374
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,439
Speaker 1: my same age and this little girl and I like

375
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,200
Speaker 1: got She kept telling me she was going to a

376
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Speaker 1: museum and I kept going, I know, I've been there,

377
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 1: because I was like three years old, and she would

378
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,399
Speaker 1: be like it has this there and I was like,

379
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 1: I know, I've been there, and her mom just turned

380
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Speaker 1: around and spanked the absolute shit out of me. And

381
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Speaker 1: it was so traumatizing. So are you being spanked by

382
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 1: other people? Like on the on the regular?

383
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 3: What on the regular? It was? You know, we had

384
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,400
Speaker 3: in the big white building. Sorry if I'm being repetitive.

385
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 3: We had the women were on the top floor and

386
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 3: my bedroom that we shared with it was me my

387
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 3: mom on one side on a bunk bed, and we

388
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 3: had we were living with another woman on the other side,

389
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 3: she had the other bed. Every night they would go

390
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,120
Speaker 3: down and do a worship group for hours and hours,

391
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,919
Speaker 3: so just the kids were stuck upstairs, and I remember

392
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,679
Speaker 3: we'd kind of like poke her head out of the

393
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 3: out of the rooms and kind of be like, hey,

394
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 3: are you up. Any other kid across the hall would

395
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 3: be like, yeah, I'm up. And we didn't cheat with

396
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 3: each other, you know, because we had no adults around.

397
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,119
Speaker 3: And I remember my the lady that was living with us,

398
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,160
Speaker 3: had come upstairs to I don't know what she was doing,

399
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,639
Speaker 3: but she'd come upstairs and she saw all of us

400
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 3: kind of talking to each other and poking her heads out,

401
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,600
Speaker 3: and she immediate came into she lived in our room.

402
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,440
Speaker 3: Kim immediately came to me and just spank the shit

403
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 3: at me. It was like, you know, you're not supposed

404
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 3: to be out of bed, you know you're not supposed

405
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,919
Speaker 3: to be talking. And after that it was like, no,

406
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,920
Speaker 3: we're talking. Groups. For us, we were scared, so sad, and.

407
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:22,119
Speaker 1: It sounds so fun too. That sounds so fun. Wow, cool,

408
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: thanks for taking that away.

409
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 2: I know in terms of what the group believed, what

410
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 2: was your conception of that?

411
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 3: Oh well, I think when every adult tells you the

412
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,879
Speaker 3: same story as a child, you kind of have no

413
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 3: choice but to believe it. And all we knew is

414
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 3: we were preparing for this big war. We were God's

415
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 3: chosen people because we chose to believe David Koresh and

416
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 3: we chose to follow him, that we would be saved.

417
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 3: Everyone else was going to die, we were going to

418
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 3: be saved and we're going to go to heaven and

419
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 3: our family would be together. And you know, it was

420
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 3: and I did have my sister in my life, it

421
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 3: was very minimal. She would call every once in a while.

422
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 3: I remember talking to you on the phone. But I

423
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 3: also remember thinking like, okay, well, if we all die,

424
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 3: like we go to heaven, she's not coming with us.

425
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 3: Like that's gonna suck. You know, Like you kind of

426
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 3: start to put these things together. It doesn't really make

427
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 3: complete sense because an adults telling you, like without a doubt, like, okay,

428
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 3: well when we're all going to die, you know you'll

429
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 3: be saved, so it doesn't matter. Just you'll be with

430
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 3: your parents. And because we all chose to believe David,

431
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 3: so you grew up with that mentality. And that's why

432
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 3: when we were attacked by the ATF, I didn't think

433
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 3: it was abnormal. I didn't think because you have everyone

434
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 3: telling you, you know, these bad people are going to

435
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 3: come and they're going to kill you, and so we actually,

436
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 3: you know, even more to back up David, were like, hey,

437
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 3: what he said was true. We this is it, Like

438
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 3: this is what we've been waiting for so for me,

439
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,199
Speaker 3: it wasn't. I just thought it was another day. I'm like, hey, yeah,

440
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:03,400
Speaker 3: this is how it goes.

441
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 2: Where was your sister? How much old her was she is?

442
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 3: She she's eighteen years older than me. Oh wow, okay,

443
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 3: So she chose to stay in Hawaii. She wanted nothing

444
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 3: to do with David. She wanted nothing to do with

445
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 3: my parents' involvement in the branch debating group. Which good

446
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 3: for her, you know, I think at twenty five, I

447
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 3: don't even remember like what my core beliefs were at

448
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 3: twenty five. But for her to be like, I'm not

449
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,679
Speaker 3: doing that, I think takes a big amount of guts.

450
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, So you guys would talk regularly and you

451
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:39,959
Speaker 2: have this like connection with someone.

452
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, she would send me books and little art those

453
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 3: little plastic things that you open and it has like

454
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 3: all the little art supplies in it and stuff like that.

455
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 3: So I remember her being there. I don't, of course,

456
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 3: I had no idea what she looked like. I had

457
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 3: no idea where she was. I just remember talking to

458
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 3: her briefly every once in a while and knowing that

459
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 3: she was there.

460
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,919
Speaker 2: I guess just one more question about David, which is

461
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 2: just like did you get like a sense of magic

462
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 2: around him, Like did he feel like a prophet? Or

463
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 2: was he just kind of a scary adult?

464
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 3: He was like the most scary adult. He Like, there's

465
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 3: nothing about him that made you feel comfortable. I want

466
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 3: to even say, if I can even reach this far,

467
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 3: I want to even say, as an adult looking at David,

468
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 3: I think everyone was kind of scared out of their

469
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 3: pants because he has this. I mean when we're all together.

470
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 3: I'm sure in the beginning it didn't seem so out

471
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 3: of place or that he was this fearful figure, But

472
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 3: towards the end, just any time you looked at him,

473
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,959
Speaker 3: he just was like you just wanted to die, Like

474
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 3: you just want to like shrivel down and be like

475
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry, Like I don't know what it was.

476
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 3: I don't know.

477
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's so interesting.

478
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,479
Speaker 3: It's like the scariest person I've probably ever met in

479
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 3: my life. Wow.

480
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, they always devolve right and get so paranoid and

481
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 2: like agitated.

482
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 5: Yeah.

483
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: So this is all happening in the early nineties, right,

484
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: So in nineteen ninety three, there was an article published

485
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 2: saying that he was a polygamist who was taking underage brides.

486
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 2: Is that was that true? Do you know?

487
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 3: We heard little rumors, you know, as kids, because I

488
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 3: think we all knew as kids that that's what was

489
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 3: going on, and we had heard rumors that there was

490
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 3: a specific girls. She had long blonde hair. I don't

491
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 3: know who exactly she was, and I definitely don't want

492
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: to put a name out there because I'm not one

493
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 3: hundred percent sure, but we all knew, like, and she

494
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 3: was probably fourteen, we all knew that she was going

495
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 3: to be David's next wife. We as kids, we all

496
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: kind of were like, that's the one. That's the one.

497
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 3: I don't know, And of course, you know, we hear

498
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 3: kids absorb everything from their surroundings, So I'm not sure

499
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 3: who would have started that, but that was like common

500
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 3: knowledge for all the kids to kind of know that

501
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: he was taking other wives. And I don't know how

502
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 3: many there were. I don't know any of that stuff, but.

503
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, was the brainwashing so intense that it's like, oh, lucky,

504
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 1: like you're the prophet's wife, or are are you still

505
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: a little kid who's like ew, no, please not me.

506
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 3: I was a little kid, and I just wanted to

507
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 3: make sure that would never be me. Because and I

508
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 3: did kind of figure, if you like, if were stating

509
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 3: the obvious that David had a type. Right, I am Asian,

510
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 3: so I'm like, ooh, I'm gonna I'm never gonna be

511
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 3: in that that lane, so all right, you know, but

512
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 3: he definitely, he definitely had a type. And I think

513
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 3: all of us were like, Okay, we've all checked that box.

514
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 3: We're not going in that direction. So it's okay.

515
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: Wow. So that article comes out and it seems to

516
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 2: be I mean, obviously there's so many factors that sort

517
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: of lead to the siege, but it seems like that

518
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 2: is sort of one of the initial.

519
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: Red flags for people.

520
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess I'm curious. Were you guys aware

521
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: of that in the group? Did the paranoia begin because

522
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: of that? Or is just an unrelated detail.

523
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 3: For I think that me being that young, I want

524
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 3: to say, it wasn't really on our forefront of things

525
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 3: that we understood really or kept tabs on. I know

526
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 3: that my mom had reached out to my sister a

527
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 3: couple times and was asking to leave, and she wanted

528
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 3: to she wanted to get out of there. Yeah, And

529
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 3: I don't know what caused that because she was so

530
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 3: very adamant that David was the answer. So for her

531
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 3: to make that kind of switch where she was like,

532
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 3: I can't do this, I'm out something significant I think

533
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 3: had to trigger her morals for her to be like,

534
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 3: that's not right right, and it just didn't happen. David

535
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 3: would not let her go. He it was just no

536
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 3: one was allowed to leave. And I think she I

537
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 3: want to say, my sister told me she tried to

538
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 3: escape once, but she couldn't take me, so she came back.

539
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.

540
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 2: Oh no, Okay, So let's get into the siege a

541
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: little bit, because you directly experienced this the beginning of

542
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 2: this horrible thing, and I mean, I guess you sort

543
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 2: of said it when it first happened. It wasn't surprising

544
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: because he'd been talking about how the end of the

545
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 2: world was coming.

546
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: And you're like, Okay, it's starting, it's happening. Cool.

547
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, But so there are gunshots, Like what did it

548
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: actually look like?

549
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 3: So I again, because our bedroom was on the second floor,

550
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 3: and I could look down to the front from our room,

551
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 3: I could look down to the front of the door

552
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 3: of the building, and then you can also see the driveway.

553
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 3: I just remember it being one of those mornings, didn't

554
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 3: seem like much. My mom came in told me to

555
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 3: get dressed. I was in pajamas and she didn't get dressed.

556
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 3: We're gonna go and eat, and of course, like a

557
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 3: little kid, I did not listen. And I definitely took

558
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 3: my time. I want to say. It was like maybe

559
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 3: halfway out of pajamas when this started, and I just

560
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 3: I looked out the window and all you see is

561
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 3: just little black dots coming down the road and I

562
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 3: just kind of looked at it, and it just from

563
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 3: there was just like a hail of gunfire. It just

564
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 3: was like these loud blasts all over all crazy. And

565
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 3: my mom ran in. She was downstairs, She ran in,

566
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: grabbed me off the bunk bed, put me on the floor,

567
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 3: she put she laid on top of me, and she

568
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 3: just said, you know, you have to be quiet. And

569
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: it was just like all all hill and I that

570
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 3: memory stops right then, so I and that you know,

571
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,719
Speaker 3: that was days hours of gunfire, so I don't know

572
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 3: exactly when that ended. And I just remember thinking, well,

573
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 3: that's this is it. You know, this is where we die, so.

574
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: You're expecting to die, and like, yeah, then go right

575
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 2: to heaven or whatever.

576
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the deal. That's what every adult had

577
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 3: told you, and you believed it. You had nothing else

578
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 3: to go by. And when it comes, you know, semi true,

579
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 3: like you feel like, well, this is exactly what everyone

580
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 3: had said was going to happen, and here we are.

581
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 2: So I believed in a prophet when I was a kid,

582
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: not for as long, and you know, it didn't end

583
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: as tragically, although there were some bad things that happened,

584
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: but I remember that feeling of like, oh, yeah, like

585
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 2: the end is coming and like then we're going to

586
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: be a part of the final battle or whatever and

587
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: we'll be immediately brought to heaven. This is exciting. He

588
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: was never that explicit in like what that would actually

589
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 2: look like, but I'd been taught in just regular Mormonism

590
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 2: my whole life up to that point that like the

591
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 2: Second Coming was coming and like shit was going to

592
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: go down and we would all be chosen or whatever.

593
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 2: So I think like on some level, if that had

594
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: happened to me, I would have been like a little

595
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: bit excited, like it's it's here, We're doing it. We're

596
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: the chosen people. God's picked the time, Like hell yeah,

597
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: you know.

598
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 3: I don't remember being scared at all, Like there was

599
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: not one one part of me that was like this

600
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 3: doesn't feel right or should this really be happening? Like

601
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 3: it was like all right, well here we are, here.

602
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: We go wow wow.

603
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 3: So yeah, So.

604
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: Six branch Davidians died in that first round of gunfire,

605
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: and then and four like a government agents. I think,

606
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: did you did you see them?

607
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 3: Again? My timeline during that also probably has skipped around

608
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 3: a little bit. I do remember walking through our hallway

609
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 3: because we had they had first moved all the children

610
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 3: and the women who were at the front part of

611
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: the building there was like all rooms, a hallway and

612
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 3: then another set of rooms. They had moved us to

613
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 3: the back end of the building and put the kids

614
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 3: under the bunk beds. In order to get out of that,

615
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 3: you had to go down the hall, to go downstairs

616
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 3: to like where the cafeteria was, where the church was,

617
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 3: what the front door was, and there was no other exit.

618
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 3: It was just the one way down the hall. And

619
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 3: I do remember walking to get downstairs and seeing a

620
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 3: bunch of bodies kind of lying on the floor and

621
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 3: to me and every you know you can see And

622
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 3: this was at night when we had no electricity and

623
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 3: there was just the search lights that they put on,

624
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 3: the really bright searchlights on the building, and from that

625
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 3: you can see all the gun holes in the walls

626
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 3: as you walk down the hall, and it really is

627
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 3: one of those scary movies where you just it's pitched black,

628
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 3: the only light you have had is coming from outside,

629
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,719
Speaker 3: and it's just all gun holes everywhere.

630
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: Wow.

631
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was very serene. It was not fearful. I

632
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 3: wasn't like, holy crap, what has just happened. It was

633
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 3: more like a right, okay, just waiting, waiting for the

634
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 3: ax drop, I guess.

635
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: Fascinating.

636
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so as somebody who's also told the end of

637
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: time is about to come at all moments of my life,

638
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: I think I would have been much more terrified than

639
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: both of you. I think I would have totally flipped out.

640
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: But there is that feeling of like at least it's

641
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: finally happening and about to be over, like the axe

642
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: has fallen. I can really relate to.

643
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, I think you kind of just wander

644
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 3: around being like, so, well, am I still alive? Yeah?

645
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 3: What's happening?

646
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 5: Yeah?

647
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 3: They didn't tell you this? Right?

648
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: Wow? But It is just so crazy that they just

649
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 2: show up and start fucking shooting at people. There's kids

650
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: in there, there kids in there, there's I mean, like

651
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 2: they had a warrant for David's arrest, and they had

652
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 2: a search warrant. How the fuck does that turn into

653
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 2: like killing spray just spraying bullets to the point where

654
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,959
Speaker 2: the walls are covered in bullets like that is insane.

655
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: How many kids were in there?

656
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 3: I don't h twenty seven.

657
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 6: I think twenty three.

658
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: Oh, that is wild.

659
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: I mean, and you know the branch Davidians are shooting

660
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: back right, there's there. It's an exchange of gunfire. But

661
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: it's like, why why did it even have to begin

662
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: this way?

663
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: Yeah?

664
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: How many days were you there? If you know.

665
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't have an exact date. And of course

666
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 3: remember we also were not schooled, so for me, like,

667
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 3: we had no idea what days were, what dates were,

668
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 3: what punts were, what time was? Really no clue. They

669
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 3: did not school us at all. The only thing we

670
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 3: were schooled in was just Bible knowledge.

671
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: So that would they teach you to read the Bible.

672
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 3: They they would like highlight they would say, here's a

673
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 3: passage you want to look at. This and highlight every

674
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 3: time you see the word God, and that's the only

675
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 3: word you really need. Have nothing to do with what

676
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 3: was happening. I could not read as soon as I

677
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 3: got out. It was just like you start from negative five,

678
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 3: not even ground zero.

679
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 1: I am so impressed with you, just yeah, no words.

680
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 2: Wow, you're obviously incredibly intelligent and made up for that

681
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: lack of education in your childhood. But that is that's insane.

682
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 2: So some amount of time you were there.

683
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to say, was if I can kind

684
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 3: of take a stab, I want to say, it's like

685
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 3: a week to two weeks. I remember it being because

686
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 3: in my mind, I think I only have maybe five

687
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 3: memories of that whole time. And that's why I don't

688
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 3: know who said. They're like, oh, you're in there for

689
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 3: like a week or two weeks. I was like, but

690
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 3: how is that possible? Because they only have like five

691
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,439
Speaker 3: memories of that, So I don't know where that time went.

692
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 3: I'm sure somewhere in my psyche, you know. They kind

693
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 3: of shut everything down and was like, Okay, this is

694
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 3: not appropriate for a six year old to be going through,

695
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 3: so we're going to shut all that down. And I

696
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 3: haven't got any of it back, So I really don't know.

697
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is a very specific logistical question.

698
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: But like, while there's all of this gunfire being exchanged,

699
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 2: what are you doing for meals? Like how are you

700
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: just like getting through the days?

701
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 3: So David had stockpiled Mr e. Those military meals. Oh

702
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 3: I remember having like seeing in the cafeteria just a

703
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 3: wall of just boxes of food. And it was again

704
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 3: just preparation for the end of time. So in that regard,

705
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 3: he was prepared, and.

706
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: That you had them in your house, Like are you yeah.

707
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 3: You just went downstairs and grabbed a box or whatever.

708
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 1: And oh, because you guys are living in the big

709
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: white building at this point, Yeah, I see, okay.

710
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And there were other children obviously experiencing this

711
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: with you.

712
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't see any of them. I'm not sure

713
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 3: where everyone kind of dispersed to. I just know that

714
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: when I was moved from my bedroom to the back

715
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 3: part of the upstairs, I was with one other girl

716
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 3: and we were just underneath the bed and put like

717
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 3: pillows and everything, like as if a pillow is going

718
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 3: to help. But they had put pillows all the way

719
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 3: around underneath the bed for us, and they just kind

720
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 3: of shoved us in there, and so you're just waiting

721
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 3: in the dark. Yeah, you know, listening to the chaos happening.

722
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, did.

723
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: They do different things with his children? Do you remember

724
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 1: what happened to them?

725
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 3: So David had a separate wing of the building. So

726
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 3: when you go through the front door, you can take

727
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 3: a left and you can go upstairs for all the

728
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 3: women and children. Where we were downstairs was the men.

729
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 3: If you went straight back, it was the church, and

730
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 3: then behind the church above like you kind of went

731
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 3: behind it and went up the stairs. Theres was his apartment.

732
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 3: So that's where he lived. And I want to say

733
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 3: he lived with his wife. I don't know when, but

734
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 3: that was his place. So I want to say all

735
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 3: the kids were his children were with him.

736
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: What Okay, So tell us about how your mom makes

737
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: a move to protect you at this point.

738
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 3: So she, I mean, again, from what I can gather,

739
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 3: she already knew that this was not right, her trying

740
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 3: to escape, her trying to leave. So I think in

741
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: the moment when she realized that kids were being released,

742
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 3: she really advocated, like, you know, she's not your daughter,

743
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 3: she has nothing to do with you. She's not the

744
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 3: chosen one. Let her go, and she came back. I

745
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 3: just remember her saying, you know, hold on one second,

746
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 3: I'm going to go talk to David. And she came

747
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 3: back and she said, you're getting out of here, and

748
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,240
Speaker 3: she like, as fast as you possibly can.

749
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 5: Sorry, thout, you're good, You're good, as fast as any

750
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 5: person possibly can.

751
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 3: You know, gather as many things that you have to

752
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 3: put on your child. And she just as fast as

753
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 3: she could grab my arm, took me downstairs and was

754
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 3: like you're going, Like that's it. There's no questions, there

755
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 3: was nothing that she was so very confident in that decision.

756
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 3: And I think that her as a mom, her instincts,

757
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 3: everything about her as being a mom just kind of

758
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 3: kicked in all at once right then and there, because

759
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 3: she also understood that by releasing me, she would never

760
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 3: be able to go. So that I think is like

761
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 3: the biggest sacrifice as a parent that you can make,

762
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: and like, really, you know, be in that moment to

763
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 3: like make that decision. She there was no second questioning.

764
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 3: Was she was so dead set, sorry, Oh my.

765
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: Gosh, no, you are totally fine. We're yeah, we're in Yeah.

766
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: So why does her making the decision for you to go.

767
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: I mean, she can ever go because because she has

768
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: no leverage anymore of like how to get out or.

769
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 3: Well, there was only talk of releasing children. I'm not

770
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 3: sure if there was ever a conversation of releasing adults.

771
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 3: And I think when she put everything together, she realized

772
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 3: it probably was never really about an adult. Leaving was like,

773
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 3: get the kids out. If you are a mom and

774
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 3: you really have come to the realization that this is

775
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 3: not the Messiah. He is not the person that he

776
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 3: said he was going to be, and he was not

777
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 3: going to be able to deliver all these promises that

778
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 3: he said he was. You know, your your reality kind

779
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 3: of sinks in and she just was like take you know,

780
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 3: take her, just get her out, and she was. She was.

781
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 3: Both my parents were extremely strong because I when I

782
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 3: was leaving, I got to say goodbye to both my parents,

783
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 3: and I don't remember either of them crying because I mean,

784
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 3: if you think about it, if you had told me

785
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 3: that we were supposed to die and we would all

786
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 3: be together, and then all of a sudden plans change,

787
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 3: I'm handing you over to these bad people. So I

788
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,479
Speaker 3: told you for the first six years of your life,

789
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 3: that they were going to kill you and that they

790
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 3: were bad, and you don't ever talk to them. If

791
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 3: you see them, you run, you tell an adult. And

792
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 3: now I'm handing you to these people. And I am

793
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 3: not going to be with you, like it's such a

794
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 3: different mental state to be in, and just you have

795
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 3: to go. You have to go with it. And as

796
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 3: a kid, you know, we were taught to listen to adults.

797
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 3: Just that's the only thing. So I didn't question it.

798
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 3: I didn't I didn't understand really fully what it meant

799
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 3: at the time, but I just knew that my parents said,

800
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 3: you have to go. They were not upset, they weren't crying,

801
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 3: they weren't like in fear. It was just a very

802
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 3: calm life. You have to go. And she put her

803
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 3: necklace and a note for my sister in my pocket,

804
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 3: in my jacket and she just set me out the

805
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 3: door and that was that was it.

806
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 7: That is yeah, I just yeah, I'm I am marveling

807
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,479
Speaker 7: at the strength that it would take to do that,

808
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 7: when they were so indoctrinated into this.

809
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 2: Idea that this these desks would be a good thing,

810
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 2: these would mean you would be together. You know, you'd

811
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: been waiting for this, and I just like that that

812
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 2: leap that it takes to be like, I'm actually gonna

813
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 2: defy everything I've believed for the past, however many years,

814
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 2: to save my daughter.

815
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 3: Like and she did an interview. I remember seeing her

816
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 3: if she's in a truck, and she was asked if

817
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 3: she believed that David Koresh was son of God, and

818
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 3: her response was, I hope so, And that to me

819
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 3: was like if there was ever a time to know

820
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 3: that she did not believe that that was true, that

821
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 3: was it. But that came from her own words. She

822
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 3: had every choice to say one hundred percent, we're here,

823
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 3: we one believe this, Yeah, and her her choice of

824
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 3: word was I.

825
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 2: Hope so, oh, thank god she was doubting. I mean,

826
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 2: thank thank God, that's why you're here. Like that's yeph.

827
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 1: I just I that the unwinding that she did, and

828
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 1: how quickly and how like it's just unbelievable.

829
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, my mom works a lot of people with a

830
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 2: lot of people who are exiting the group that they're

831
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 2: in and like it's a it's a long process like

832
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 2: that is like so anyway, it's just an amazing It's

833
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 2: just an amazing decision.

834
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm very thankful.

835
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: And so you left and and then what they just

836
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 2: like take you? And was it scary?

837
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 3: It was scary. It's and it doesn't when I'm gonna

838
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 3: say this out loud, it doesn't sound scary. But in

839
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 3: my mind, when you have no experience whatsoever, like a

840
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 3: flushing toilet scared the shit out of me. Wow. Taking

841
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 3: a bath like a bubble bath scared the absolute craft

842
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 3: out of me.

843
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 2: The first time running water at all, no running water,

844
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: no electricity, no. Wow, I didn't.

845
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 3: Realize it was. I want to say we had electricity,

846
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 3: but I don't think we had running water okay, because

847
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 3: we did not have toilets or baths. For baths, we

848
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 3: had a big tin bath and then we had to

849
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 3: fill it up with water and then take it out. Wow.

850
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 3: So it was not it was nothing. It wasn't like

851
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 3: the luxuries of having a flushing toilet now, so for me,

852
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 3: and I thought it was I thought it was definitely

853
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 3: a trick. And I thought I was going to get spanked.

854
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 3: You know, every time I was supposed flush the toilet

855
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 3: or take a bath, I definitely thought like, holy shit,

856
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 3: like I'm gonna get spanked this is not normal. This

857
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 3: is not how we do things. And it took a

858
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 3: lot of unwinding for me to start over and to

859
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 3: start from scratch for the basic things that you know

860
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 3: everyone has. Now, we had never watched movies, so for me,

861
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 3: I think the first movie we saw was The Little Mermaid.

862
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 3: They took us to a home. I got a shelter,

863
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 3: a home where all the kids were staying, and they

864
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 3: let us watch movies. They let us know, play sports,

865
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 3: have candy, have soda. It was just one of those

866
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 3: things where you think, I'm definitely gonna get spanked if

867
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 3: I if I take a sip of this, and a

868
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 3: lot of the videos that I have seen had I was.

869
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 3: I was always in the background by myself kind of

870
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 3: just like this is not you know, this is not right.

871
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 3: I definitely feel like I'm gonna get spanked or punished

872
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 3: or this. This is just not right. I was very

873
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 3: It's hard to watch those those videos and see just

874
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 3: how how mentally insecure I was in like the basic things, Well.

875
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 2: It makes total sense. It's the only thing you'd ever known, like, yeah,

876
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 2: this is everything, goes against everything you've ever been taught.

877
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 2: With a bunch of strangers like why why would you

878
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,240
Speaker 2: be immediately.

879
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: On board not only strangers, but like the enemy, the.

880
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 3: Enemy, Yeah yeah, the enemy.

881
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and I mean the Little Mermaid.

882
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 3: Wow.

883
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: Imagine never seeing a movie and then you're just watching Likesla. Yeah,

884
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 1: it was it amazing? Was it terrifying?

885
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 3: The first one. I think we all we watched it

886
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 3: and all of us were like, what the hell just happened?

887
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 3: And then we were like we can we repeat that?

888
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 3: And so we just had it like non stop, the

889
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 3: same movie over and over. For me, So, my sister's

890
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 3: name is Ursula and my mom name is Ursula, So

891
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 3: for me, I was like, yeah, I was like, holy yeah,

892
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 3: who is it? Of course I ended up the villain,

893
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 3: but no, that's all right, kind of cool.

894
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: Actually yeah, her own person doing some shit.

895
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 2: Yeah sure, yeah, I was slow, super cool, like the

896
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 2: stealing voices from ladies. And how long was it before

897
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 2: you were living with your sister?

898
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,760
Speaker 6: I don't think it was more than a couple weeks.

899
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 6: Maybe again, timelines are not great with me.

900
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 3: She had to go through a lot of fighting in court,

901
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 3: and I think what had ultimately became the deciding factor

902
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 3: was the note that my mom had left in my

903
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 3: jacket was basically saying that my sister was now my guardian.

904
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 3: That's who she wanted me to go with. Right, And

905
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 3: so she's writing this note in the middle of all

906
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 3: that chaos, knowing that an outcome needed to happen, and

907
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 3: that's what she wrote, like, your sister is now your guardian,

908
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 3: that's who I'm trusting.

909
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 2: That's incredible foresight against right, very impressive.

910
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 3: Oh wow. But then I moved to Hawaii and that again,

911
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 3: you want to talk about scary times, is like going

912
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 3: to school for the first time, is you know, children

913
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 3: are relentless in their beliefs. As a child, because you're

914
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 3: so solely believing one thing, she don't know how to

915
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 3: think for yourself. Really, and going to school, I remember

916
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 3: being teased for not having parents, for not having my

917
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 3: parents around, and it was really rough. It was definitely rough.

918
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 2: Did you feel a connection with your sister, I mean

919
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,760
Speaker 2: you'd never met, but you talked enough.

920
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was immediate. And I had no idea who

921
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:05,720
Speaker 3: you know what she looked like. I had no idea.

922
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 3: I was just brought to an office and she was

923
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 3: sitting in there with a social worker or someone, and

924
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 3: I just remember like as soon as I locked eyes

925
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 3: with her. I was like, that's my sister, and I

926
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 3: just crawled into her lap and she was my safe

927
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 3: zone and she's been my safe zone for a very

928
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:23,280
Speaker 3: long time.

929
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 2: Wow. So the Waco siege lasted for fifty one days,

930
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 2: which is absolutely insane. How did you get the news

931
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 2: about the fire?

932
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 3: My sister every morning would turn on the TV before

933
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 3: I'd go to school and watch the news. And that

934
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 3: morning she turned it on and it was just everything

935
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 3: was up in flames, and she just, immediately, she was

936
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 3: so quick turned off the TV. I don't even think

937
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 3: I had a chance to see what was on the TV.

938
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 3: She turned it off. She said, all right, let's get

939
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 3: you to school, and as if nothing had happened. And

940
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 3: I went to school, had no idea what was happening,

941
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 3: and she said she just pulled over and cried.

942
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,280
Speaker 6: And I think it's hard for me to think about

943
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 6: this because not only did I go through this experience,

944
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 6: but she did too.

945
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 3: She was I don't want to say burden, but she

946
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 3: definitely had a lot of things she had to deal

947
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 3: with that she did not sign up for. Yeah, so

948
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 3: she was definitely a rock. And then she picked me

949
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 3: up from school, said you know, we need to talk,

950
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 3: and you know, mom unfortunately has died. And my response

951
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 3: to her just was like, yeah, I know, like you

952
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 3: guys told me that this was going to happen, like

953
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: I wasn't. I was again, very calm, very just a

954
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,240
Speaker 3: matter of fact, like that was a fact. Yes, wow,

955
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 3: And she I think that might have scared her a

956
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 3: little bit, if I could be honest. But yeah, and

957
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 3: then from then, I think every adult in my life

958
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 3: has tried to be a little bit more kind to

959
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:25,959
Speaker 3: I think they all waited for the acts to drop,

960
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 3: as if I were going to lose it or like

961
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 3: I was not expecting this that your parents unfortunately passed,

962
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 3: and you know it would all hit me at one time,

963
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 3: and it didn't. It just was like very like even

964
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 3: to this day, I don't ever really cry when I

965
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 3: hear that back because it was so it was just

966
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 3: a fact to me, Like okay, so.

967
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, seventy six people died that day, including twenty something children.

968
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: Is so crazy. It's just so crazy, dud.

969
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you think about your mom, now, what do

970
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 2: you think, like, what do you hold on to?

971
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 3: I think of her and I think, yeah, she made

972
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 3: this decision to be part of a group that she

973
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 3: thought was going to give her the answer she was

974
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 3: looking for in her life. And I think everyone kind

975
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 3: of gets to that cross point where you figure, what's

976
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 3: going on with you know, my life?

977
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 6: What am I doing?

978
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 3: And it doesn't really matter to me how she got there.

979
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what where she was in her own

980
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 3: growth journey or not even growth journey, whatever, It doesn't

981
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 3: matter because when the time came for her to make

982
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 3: the most crucial decision, she didn't question. She just I

983
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 3: think in her every moral fiber of her being, she

984
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 3: knew what was right. Yeah, and she made, you know,

985
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 3: just the most difficult decision that any parent can make.

986
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 3: And that's what defines her in the end. Like, it

987
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 3: has nothing to do with how she got here, It

988
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 3: has nothing to do with her battles that she fought

989
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 3: while she was there or any of it. It doesn't

990
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 3: matter to me. It matters to me that she found herself,

991
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 3: she found what she knew was right, and she went

992
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 3: with it.

993
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a hero.

994
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, she protected you when it was the most important,

995
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 2: and that's the important thing to remember. It seems like,

996
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: what's your life like now, h.

997
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:46,879
Speaker 3: I have three beautiful boys, my husband and I work

998
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 3: in our family restaurant in San Francisco. I am right

999
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 3: now the pastry chef there. And my eldest son, Logan,

1000
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 3: who's sixteen. He has definitely been my rock during a

1001
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 3: lot of growing through being a parent. He comes to

1002
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 3: work with me every three days a week. He works

1003
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 3: with me. I'm just trying very hard to raise kind

1004
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 3: gentle men for this world because I feel like that's

1005
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 3: definitely what is needed right now. So I have a

1006
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 3: four month boy. When we found out we were pregnant,

1007
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 3: I was so sure. I said, you know what, I'm ready.

1008
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 3: If now is ever the time, I'm ready to raise

1009
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 3: a strong woman. If that's my lot in life, I

1010
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 3: can do it. I have the energy, I have the patience.

1011
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 3: I would love to raise a strong woman that was

1012
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 3: not the choice that was made. And a good friend

1013
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,240
Speaker 3: of mine because she knew how disappointed I was, because

1014
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 3: I was so very set, I said, this world needs

1015
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 3: a strong woman. I am ready to do that. And

1016
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:01,760
Speaker 3: what am I going to do? I have another boy,

1017
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 3: And she gently reminded me. She said, you know, I

1018
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 3: think the world does have enough strong women in it

1019
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 3: right now. I think what we are lacking is just

1020
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 3: kind men.

1021
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 2: Good men.

1022
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 3: So if that's the journey you're supposed to be on

1023
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 3: and you have three opportunities to do that, I think

1024
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 3: that's where you should be. And I just kind of

1025
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 3: was like, oh, holy shit, you're right, damn it.

1026
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 6: So I gave up the idea of raising a strong

1027
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 6: woman and I am trying to raise kind and gentlemen

1028
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 6: who you.

1029
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 3: Know, have a little bit of a backbone but still

1030
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 3: can contribute kindness because I think we definitely need that. Now.

1031
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 2: I love that perspective so much. I think that that

1032
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 2: is an excellent point that your friend made because right there,

1033
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 2: most of the problems in this world are men who

1034
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 2: are afraid to be soft or vulnerable. Yeah, or I

1035
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:02,879
Speaker 2: should say, are have root causes in dynamics involving then

1036
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to say it's men's fault,

1037
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 2: but you know what I mean. So, yeah, I think

1038
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 2: that's incredibly important. And just based on this conversation, I

1039
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 2: would guess you're doing an excellent job of doing that.

1040
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,919
Speaker 3: Oh thank you. I really do try. It's hard work.

1041
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:16,439
Speaker 3: Every day.

1042
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 1: I read something that I'm not sure it is true.

1043
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: It was like an article, but it said that a

1044
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: social worker or somebody. When you first got out, I

1045
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: was telling you, like, you're not going to be a

1046
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:29,399
Speaker 1: good person. Is that?

1047
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean they told my sister to basically make

1048
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 3: sure I continue therapy because the chances that I would

1049
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 3: grow up to be a you know, obomber was very likely.

1050
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 3: Oh my, or you know, a mass murderer was basically

1051
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 3: what everyone thought I would be.

1052
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 7: Wow.

1053
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm not sure where that study.

1054
00:56:58,520 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1055
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,720
Speaker 1: Wow. I was hoping you'd be like, no, that's not real. Okay,

1056
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 1: that was real. So you've just like shown up in

1057
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: everyone's faces and have a beautiful life.

1058
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 3: And yeah, well I think when you hear when you

1059
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 3: hear that, you know, at a young age, you kind

1060
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 3: of think like, I really would like that to not

1061
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 3: be true, and your decision making from then kind of

1062
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 3: fears you the opposite, right as, I don't really know

1063
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 3: how I got.

1064
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 6: To this point, if I can be honest.

1065
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 3: But it's just a day in and day out, small

1066
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 3: decisions that are made to make sure that I do

1067
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 3: not kill a bunch of it.

1068
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 2: Sounds like though, that you had this wonderful sister who

1069
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 2: really like guided you through what could have been really

1070
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 2: which probably was a very rocky tumultuous time, but having

1071
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 2: that person can make all the difference in the world.

1072
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 2: Not that you would have ever been a mass that's

1073
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 2: but I just had a term in terms of like

1074
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 2: turning out relatively healthy and balanced and well adjusted all

1075
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 2: things considered.

1076
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had some growing pains. I'm not gonna say

1077
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 3: that it was you know, rainbows and sunshine. We definitely

1078
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 3: went through a lot of growing pains and we had

1079
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 3: a lot of discovering and growth to do between the

1080
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 3: two of us to kind of navigate and make sure

1081
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 3: both of us got out of this alive, so to speak.

1082
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 3: And you just need one person. You need a village

1083
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 3: when it comes to raising children. I think that's the thing,

1084
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 3: because raising a child on your own is freaking crazy.

1085
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 3: So to single moms who do it, holy freakin cow,

1086
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 3: I salute you. But I do think that it just

1087
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 3: if you have one person in your life who tells

1088
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 3: you and means it when they say, like you're enough,

1089
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 3: that's it's just one. You just need one. You don't

1090
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 3: need every single person that you come across to tell

1091
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 3: you that. You just need one that you trust, and

1092
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 3: that's it. You're not every day you're enough.

1093
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 2: Imagine your story will be very inspiring to our listeners

1094
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 2: because we have a fair amount of listeners who had

1095
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 2: their own either cultic or abusive, or just like general

1096
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 2: traumatic experiences, and it's so inspiring to see when someone

1097
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 2: comes out of something that's so extreme and so difficult

1098
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 2: and just like.

1099
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thank you. I do want to just say,

1100
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 3: because I've been asked a lot. I have kids in

1101
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 3: high school who reach out and ask me to answer

1102
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 3: their questions for a school project that they do. And

1103
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 3: I've been noticing lately that it has been a majority

1104
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 3: of people who write to me that are in high school,

1105
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 3: who say, you know, we're learning about this in history class,

1106
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 3: and I was just hoping you'd be able to answer

1107
00:59:55,360 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 3: some questions and talk to me. And as I get older,

1108
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 3: and I realized that this isn't something that everyone has

1109
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 3: grown up with on the news. They're obviously very different

1110
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 3: problems happening today. I think my main goal to tell

1111
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 3: these kids, and I tell each one of them like

1112
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 3: you're enough, Like I just want you to know that

1113
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 3: in school, because people don't tell you in high school,

1114
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 3: they don't tell you in middle school or elementary school.

1115
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 3: We weren't raised with parents who nurture us in a

1116
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 3: way where it's always a comfortable growth. I think our

1117
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 3: generation before us has been very rough, So I do

1118
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 3: want to make it a thing where I tell these

1119
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 3: kids before you get to being an adult and have

1120
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 3: to figure it out on your own, and no one's

1121
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 3: ever told you that you were enough, that you're enough.

1122
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 3: That's really just my that's my hoshpiel. I just want

1123
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 3: to make sure that kids hear it from someone that

1124
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 3: they're enough, because I never heard it.

1125
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you don't have to be like that influencer

1126
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 2: on Instagram or where it in a particular body or

1127
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 2: whatever it is there. I can't imagine we're just talking

1128
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 2: about this, but I cannot imagine being a kid right now.

1129
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 2: It's very very hard. So yeah, well, thank you so

1130
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 2: so much for coming on. This is truly an amazing

1131
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 2: conversation and you just seem like such an awesome person,

1132
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 2: and yeah, really appreciate it.

1133
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 6: Thank you very much.

1134
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 3: Guys.

1135
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 2: All right, Megan, time for the question. Would you join

1136
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 2: this cult?

1137
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:27,959
Speaker 1: To be fair? Living on a compound sounds pretty fun.

1138
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 1: As you've mentioned, he's very good looking. I don't necessarily agree,

1139
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 1: but if I found him good looking, it might be influential. Yeah,

1140
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,919
Speaker 1: I could see myself hanging out down in the big

1141
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: white building for a minute.

1142
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 2: Down in the big white building. That's a song title

1143
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 2: for sure.

1144
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1145
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 2: I think that the religious element would maybe make it

1146
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 2: not one of mine. Oh yeah, the religious element is

1147
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 2: not fun, yeah, but commune living like sure. Actually the

1148
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 2: parts where she's describing just like being on her own

1149
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: in this beautiful, my natural setting. I'm like, that sounds great.

1150
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 2: I would do that for sure, and like the sleeve

1151
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 2: over vibes. Yeah, with the kids, but then other you know,

1152
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 2: minus the punishing adults. Who knows.

1153
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 5: You know.

1154
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 2: It was a really particular time, a really particular religion.

1155
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: But I can see why people got sucked on me too.

1156
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for spending another week listening to us.

1157
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,439
Speaker 1: We can't wait to see you here again next week.

1158
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 1: Remember to follow your gut, watch out forrad flags, and

1159
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: never ever trust trust me Hi later.

1160
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 2: Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

1161
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

1162
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: The special thanks to Stacy Para.

1163
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1164
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1165
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me cult pod, or on TikTok At,

1166
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 1: Trust Me Cult Podcast.

1167
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1168
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1169
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: Hits on Twitter.

1170
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread work.