WEBVTT - Been Here For Years 0:00:04.813 --> 0:00:08.693 Comeback Stories is a production. I've Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. 0:00:12.013 --> 0:00:14.893 What's up, everybody. I'm Darren Waller. I'm tight End for 0:00:14.933 --> 0:00:17.813 the New York Giants. I'm also a husband, a brother, 0:00:18.013 --> 0:00:21.493 a son, an artist. Welcome back to Comeback Stories. 0:00:21.733 --> 0:00:25.613 And I'm Donnie Starkins, yoga, meditation teacher, personal development coach. 0:00:25.653 --> 0:00:27.773 And it's good to be back on the platform for 0:00:27.853 --> 0:00:28.733 Comeback Stories. 0:00:29.013 --> 0:00:31.893 We've got a special guest today, a man who's had 0:00:31.933 --> 0:00:34.253 a comeback story, but we'll let him tell you that 0:00:34.293 --> 0:00:38.253 he's been here for years. We've got Michael Smith. Michael, 0:00:38.293 --> 0:00:39.173 welcome to the show man. 0:00:39.453 --> 0:00:41.253 It's good to be with you, fellows. It's really good 0:00:41.253 --> 0:00:42.973 to be with y'all. Thank y'all for having me. I 0:00:43.013 --> 0:00:45.613 appreciate it. A big fan of what y'all are doing. 0:00:46.013 --> 0:00:49.093 But Darren, can I start with a question, just curious 0:00:49.413 --> 0:00:51.893 have you gotten used to saying tight End for the 0:00:51.893 --> 0:00:54.093 New York Giants yet or is it still something you 0:00:54.133 --> 0:00:55.213 got to remind yourself as. 0:00:55.133 --> 0:00:57.933 Sir, I'm still working out the kinks on it. 0:00:57.973 --> 0:00:58.173 Man. 0:01:00.093 --> 0:01:01.733 It's still like, wow, this is really true. And then 0:01:01.733 --> 0:01:04.693 it's like still putting on like blue shirts and in 0:01:05.013 --> 0:01:07.453 blue workout gear. I'm like, this is taking a little 0:01:07.453 --> 0:01:09.533 bit of time. It's cool, but yeah, still got to 0:01:09.533 --> 0:01:11.453 get best to it a little bit before we get 0:01:11.453 --> 0:01:13.933 into your story. I know that you're somebody that has 0:01:14.693 --> 0:01:17.893 lived some of your career on big stages, in front 0:01:18.133 --> 0:01:21.693 of people, in front of all of America, and in 0:01:21.733 --> 0:01:25.093 certain points of your career. Could you speak to some 0:01:25.133 --> 0:01:27.253 of that pressure, because I know that I can relate, 0:01:27.253 --> 0:01:29.973 and I can talk about all the fans and the 0:01:30.013 --> 0:01:32.093 game and all the pressure that that brings for me 0:01:32.133 --> 0:01:34.613 to succeed and make money all those things. But what 0:01:34.693 --> 0:01:35.973 is it like from your perspective? 0:01:36.293 --> 0:01:38.373 That's a great question, you know. 0:01:38.373 --> 0:01:41.133 I would say if I could relate it to what 0:01:41.173 --> 0:01:44.813 you do is reps, you know, and the more reps 0:01:44.853 --> 0:01:48.053 you do, the more comfortable you get, the more you 0:01:48.093 --> 0:01:49.893 stop thinking, the more it slows down. 0:01:50.253 --> 0:01:52.933 I remember the first time I did television. I was 0:01:52.973 --> 0:01:54.293 in Boston, and. 0:01:54.213 --> 0:01:56.053 Because I didn't go to school for television line you, 0:01:56.253 --> 0:01:58.173 I don't up to school to be a front journalist. 0:01:58.653 --> 0:02:00.933 Matter of fact, I look down my nose at television 0:02:00.933 --> 0:02:04.253 people because I was like, oh, you are real journalists, 0:02:04.293 --> 0:02:06.453 you know, you just you your make up and your 0:02:06.493 --> 0:02:08.253 cameras and you know, you know, you ain't telling the 0:02:08.293 --> 0:02:11.013 real stories of real real journalism is written word. I 0:02:11.053 --> 0:02:12.693 was one of those guys, even as a young kid. 0:02:13.133 --> 0:02:15.693 And so I was at the Boston Globe and I 0:02:15.693 --> 0:02:19.093 would have been, you know, about twenty two years old 0:02:19.213 --> 0:02:22.853 something like that, maybe even younger. And I went on 0:02:22.893 --> 0:02:26.493 a local television show and I remember you shaking, you know, 0:02:26.613 --> 0:02:29.653 like I mean, just like bouncing my leg, and I 0:02:29.733 --> 0:02:31.893 just was so nervous. I don't even remember if I 0:02:31.893 --> 0:02:35.533 can get a sentence out cleanly and you know, fast forward. 0:02:35.653 --> 0:02:37.613 And thankfully people didn't give up on me. 0:02:37.893 --> 0:02:40.973 And after doing thousands of hours of it, it just 0:02:41.013 --> 0:02:44.053 became second nature. And the best advice I got along 0:02:44.053 --> 0:02:46.213 the way was just to get better at being myself. 0:02:46.293 --> 0:02:52.773 And so I stopped magnifying mistakes. I stopped worrying about, honestly, 0:02:52.813 --> 0:02:54.853 what people thought. I never think about the people on 0:02:54.893 --> 0:02:57.533 the other side of that red light. So I imagine 0:02:57.733 --> 0:03:01.213 you might block out the people in the stands and 0:03:01.373 --> 0:03:03.413 just you know, focus on the person in front of you. 0:03:03.453 --> 0:03:05.853 I focus on a person next to me. I focus 0:03:05.893 --> 0:03:07.413 on the story I want to tell. I focus on 0:03:07.453 --> 0:03:10.053 the point I want to make. And it went from 0:03:10.093 --> 0:03:13.213 a nervous energy to an exciting energy, and I get 0:03:13.213 --> 0:03:15.373 a rush when that red light comes on. So I 0:03:15.413 --> 0:03:17.013 don't think of it as pressure as much as it 0:03:17.053 --> 0:03:20.453 is a privilege. And it became fun over the years 0:03:20.973 --> 0:03:23.013 just to connect with people, even if I couldn't see 0:03:23.013 --> 0:03:25.133 them or I didn't know them, I'm connecting with people 0:03:25.693 --> 0:03:27.253 through that camera lens and on the other side of 0:03:27.293 --> 0:03:27.973 that red light. 0:03:27.973 --> 0:03:28.853 It's beautiful. Man. 0:03:28.893 --> 0:03:31.413 Well, you started your career as a sports writer, right 0:03:31.453 --> 0:03:34.253 and then fifteen years with ESPN in a variety of 0:03:34.333 --> 0:03:38.853 roles reporter, host, commentator, anchor on Sports Center. But now 0:03:38.973 --> 0:03:42.133 you kind of are wearing multiple aps across the industry 0:03:42.173 --> 0:03:45.373 of peacock shows with my main man Michael Smith and 0:03:45.453 --> 0:03:49.093 brother from another with NFL Insider on Amazon on the 0:03:49.093 --> 0:03:52.573 Thursday Night show. And you're a media entrepreneur. You're the 0:03:52.613 --> 0:03:56.853 reason why we're here sitting together as the leader of 0:03:56.853 --> 0:04:01.373 this company. So but most importantly your a husband, Sarah 0:04:01.413 --> 0:04:03.693 and a father of three. So I wanted to give 0:04:03.693 --> 0:04:05.373 you a little bit of a proper per intro. But 0:04:06.333 --> 0:04:09.453 for that being yeah, with that being said, maybe you 0:04:09.493 --> 0:04:12.133 can take us back. Darren and I always dive deep 0:04:12.173 --> 0:04:14.173 and we go right into the story, and we would 0:04:14.213 --> 0:04:17.453 just like to know some context and maybe tell us 0:04:17.493 --> 0:04:18.813 what it was like growing up for you. 0:04:19.213 --> 0:04:22.133 Sure, I grew up in New Orleans. I'm the oldest 0:04:22.133 --> 0:04:23.213 of two. You know. 0:04:23.333 --> 0:04:26.733 My mom and my dad raised me until they got 0:04:26.773 --> 0:04:29.933 divorced about when I was about ten, and my stepdad 0:04:30.413 --> 0:04:32.693 came into our lives and loved us like we were 0:04:32.733 --> 0:04:37.453 his own. I am the grandson of a Baptist pastor, 0:04:37.973 --> 0:04:41.653 so I'm a preacher's grandkid. Served on an usher board. 0:04:42.293 --> 0:04:44.413 So one of the reasons I'm long when it is 0:04:44.413 --> 0:04:45.733 I got it. It runs in my family. 0:04:45.853 --> 0:04:47.133 You know. Other people say I'm a bit of a 0:04:47.173 --> 0:04:50.333 preacher on television. I got it. I got it honestly, 0:04:50.373 --> 0:04:50.893 if you will. 0:04:51.413 --> 0:04:53.933 Grew up in New Orleans and grew up around a 0:04:53.973 --> 0:04:55.933 lot of love, man, you know, and when I was 0:04:55.973 --> 0:04:58.773 growing up in New Orleans was a rough place, you know, 0:04:59.253 --> 0:05:01.093 probably at the highest murder rate per capital in the 0:05:01.173 --> 0:05:03.293 United States at the time. But I was I was 0:05:03.293 --> 0:05:05.213 shielded from a lot of that. To be hose with you, 0:05:05.173 --> 0:05:07.173 you know, I was aware of it. But you know 0:05:07.333 --> 0:05:10.893 I didn't want for anything growing up. I weren't rich, 0:05:11.573 --> 0:05:13.813 but you know, my mom did what she had to 0:05:13.853 --> 0:05:15.813 do to take care of us. My stepdad took care 0:05:15.813 --> 0:05:18.293 of us. I had a relationship, continued relationship with my father. 0:05:18.853 --> 0:05:21.053 I had a lot of role models. I went to 0:05:21.173 --> 0:05:25.013 McDonald thirty five, the first all black high school in 0:05:25.093 --> 0:05:28.253 New Orleans, nationally recognized Blue Ribbon school, so I had 0:05:28.253 --> 0:05:29.013 a great education. 0:05:29.933 --> 0:05:31.733 Went to Loyola University in New Orleans. 0:05:31.773 --> 0:05:34.133 So I stayed close to home and close to my 0:05:34.173 --> 0:05:37.693 family until I graduated, and I moved to Boston right 0:05:37.693 --> 0:05:39.813 out of college to work for the Boston Globe. But yeah, 0:05:39.853 --> 0:05:41.693 I would say, just my upbringing. Man, It's just I 0:05:41.733 --> 0:05:44.413 had so many people, you know. I had a village 0:05:44.733 --> 0:05:47.733 really simple and playing, whether it's my church family, my 0:05:47.773 --> 0:05:51.973 immediate family, my extended family, the community. I just had 0:05:52.013 --> 0:05:56.493 a lot of people behind me pushing me toward success. 0:05:56.533 --> 0:05:59.533 And I'm really really grateful for it. I got nothing 0:05:59.613 --> 0:06:03.173 but fond memories. You know, As a father, I often say, 0:06:03.253 --> 0:06:06.013 you know, our job is at our children to adulthood 0:06:06.493 --> 0:06:09.893 with as few scars as possible, physical and emotional and mental. 0:06:10.453 --> 0:06:13.933 I know that I am so blessed and so fortunate 0:06:14.013 --> 0:06:17.093 to be able to say that I didn't carry any 0:06:17.133 --> 0:06:22.053 trauma throughout my childhood. And into adulthood, and I think 0:06:22.093 --> 0:06:24.933 it's just one of the It's something I did not 0:06:25.093 --> 0:06:27.973 have to overcome, quite honestly, when it came to being 0:06:28.013 --> 0:06:30.893 a father and a husband, you know, and a citizen myself. 0:06:30.973 --> 0:06:33.573 And so I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful for everybody 0:06:33.613 --> 0:06:35.853 that poured into me as a kid. And I wouldn't 0:06:35.853 --> 0:06:38.733 be where I am without my family and like I said, 0:06:38.733 --> 0:06:40.373 without my community and went up that village. 0:06:40.773 --> 0:06:43.013 Yeah, it sounds like you had a lot of support 0:06:43.053 --> 0:06:45.333 and a lot of love and maybe not a lot 0:06:45.373 --> 0:06:47.533 of trauma. But can you go back and can you 0:06:47.613 --> 0:06:52.173 remember an early memory of struggle or pain or anything 0:06:52.173 --> 0:06:55.773 that you saw in the world that kind of impacted you. 0:06:55.053 --> 0:06:58.853 You know, I would say initially, you know, my parents 0:06:58.853 --> 0:07:01.373 separated quite a bit. They were kind of they were 0:07:01.373 --> 0:07:03.693 always married, but on and off, you know what I mean, 0:07:03.773 --> 0:07:07.933 And so we moved around a lot. My dad was 0:07:07.973 --> 0:07:10.173 kind of in and out of I wouldn't see in 0:07:10.173 --> 0:07:12.093 it and out of the picture, because he was always 0:07:12.493 --> 0:07:15.133 you know, were always connected and close. He was always there, 0:07:15.653 --> 0:07:18.773 but in terms of like the nuclear family and in 0:07:18.853 --> 0:07:21.093 the household kind of in and out, as I recall. 0:07:21.733 --> 0:07:24.093 And then they got divorced a little bit after a 0:07:24.093 --> 0:07:25.213 little while after I turned ten. 0:07:25.293 --> 0:07:27.133 Initially that was tough, But like I said, I give 0:07:27.173 --> 0:07:27.933 a lot of credit to my. 0:07:27.893 --> 0:07:32.253 Stepdad, you know, for coming in and loving two boys 0:07:32.253 --> 0:07:34.973 that weren't his as if they were his. So that 0:07:35.333 --> 0:07:39.493 was that could have been challenging. And maybe it is 0:07:39.533 --> 0:07:42.173 in ways that I hadn't unpacked yet. But you know, 0:07:42.533 --> 0:07:45.133 whether my grandfather was like a father to me, my 0:07:45.293 --> 0:07:48.373 uncle was like a father to me, you know, uncles 0:07:48.413 --> 0:07:51.173 for that matter, you know, And I was all and 0:07:51.213 --> 0:07:54.493 again my stepdad stepped up. And then there's teachers who 0:07:54.533 --> 0:07:57.933 looked after me. So for some children, that might have 0:07:58.053 --> 0:08:01.933 been traumatic. And we haven't really talked about it, but 0:08:02.373 --> 0:08:04.973 I think it affected my younger brother maybe more than 0:08:04.973 --> 0:08:07.093 it affected me, at least on this on the level 0:08:07.093 --> 0:08:09.053 that I'm aware of. Again, it may be some stuff 0:08:09.053 --> 0:08:11.453 beneath the surface that I just haven't gotten too. So 0:08:11.493 --> 0:08:14.333 I'm not go say it didn't affect me. I guess 0:08:14.333 --> 0:08:16.893 it says something that was the first thing I referenced. 0:08:16.973 --> 0:08:20.893 Right beyond that, yeah, I would I would say I 0:08:20.893 --> 0:08:23.533 would say there was enough of a cushion and enough 0:08:23.573 --> 0:08:27.333 of a cocoon, and enough arms being you know, put 0:08:27.333 --> 0:08:30.413 around me to where I wouldn't say that I missed. 0:08:30.573 --> 0:08:33.013 And again my dad wasn't around. He moved away and 0:08:33.093 --> 0:08:34.733 lived in Miami. I lived in New Orleans. But it 0:08:34.773 --> 0:08:36.733 wasn't like he wasn't there when you know, when I 0:08:36.773 --> 0:08:39.293 told my a cl my senior year high school playing football, 0:08:39.493 --> 0:08:41.453 he was at that game and he was there, you know. 0:08:41.613 --> 0:08:44.293 So you know, I don't want to paint the picture like, 0:08:44.333 --> 0:08:46.573 you know, like I was abandoned. No, far from it. 0:08:46.653 --> 0:08:49.813 But that was an adjustment and a challenge more than 0:08:49.813 --> 0:08:51.813 it was I would say a struggle. But if I 0:08:51.813 --> 0:08:56.333 had the points of probably the most traumatic thing as 0:08:56.333 --> 0:08:58.373 it relates to my family, I was older and I 0:08:58.373 --> 0:09:00.933 had grown up, and I you know, moved to Boston 0:09:00.973 --> 0:09:03.573 and just started my family. But obviously a Hurricane Katrina 0:09:04.333 --> 0:09:08.013 was very difficult for my family. They had to evacuate 0:09:08.773 --> 0:09:12.053 to Boston and lived with me and my wife. My 0:09:12.453 --> 0:09:16.693 parents lost everything, my grandparents or my grandmother. My grandfather 0:09:16.733 --> 0:09:19.933 had passed by then my grand mother lost everything. You know, 0:09:20.213 --> 0:09:25.053 displacement that they're that trauma is real, and it's still 0:09:25.133 --> 0:09:29.653 its generational and I still annoy that we've properly identified 0:09:30.653 --> 0:09:34.013 how much that reverbates or you know, from the generations 0:09:34.573 --> 0:09:38.973 of people who experienced Katrina as adults, as kids, and 0:09:39.013 --> 0:09:41.373 even their kids. I don't know that we can properly 0:09:41.453 --> 0:09:44.373 quantify that, but yeah, I would I would say I 0:09:44.373 --> 0:09:47.493 would say that's split between my parents is the probably 0:09:47.533 --> 0:09:52.093 the earliest memory beyond that the eighteen years I spent 0:09:52.333 --> 0:09:55.533 under my mom's roof. You know, it wasn't always you know, 0:09:56.013 --> 0:09:57.853 peaches and cream, you know what I'm saying. You know, 0:09:57.893 --> 0:09:59.693 I got into it my stepdad. I was a hard 0:09:59.733 --> 0:10:01.133 headed you know, I was in you know, but I 0:10:01.173 --> 0:10:03.813 didn't get any trouble. I didn't run with the wrong crowd. 0:10:04.533 --> 0:10:06.173 And I think part of that too is just like 0:10:06.733 --> 0:10:10.333 a being a preacher's kid and my grandfather, you know, 0:10:10.613 --> 0:10:12.453 it was kind of a big deal in New Oranes, 0:10:12.533 --> 0:10:15.053 you know what I mean. You know, his church was 0:10:15.093 --> 0:10:17.413 the first one broadcast over the radios. So it's like 0:10:17.893 --> 0:10:19.413 people kind of knew who I was, and they knew 0:10:19.413 --> 0:10:21.853 where I was going. And so I lived in a 0:10:22.133 --> 0:10:26.493 pretty decent part of town. Even the opportunities to stray 0:10:26.933 --> 0:10:28.493 were met with. Hey man, you know, you were a 0:10:28.493 --> 0:10:31.773 straight a student. You know this, this this ain't for you. 0:10:31.693 --> 0:10:33.853 You're on a path. Let's keep you on that path, 0:10:33.893 --> 0:10:34.533 you know what I'm saying. 0:10:34.693 --> 0:10:36.853 I can relate a lot to what you said about 0:10:36.853 --> 0:10:39.453 My parents divorced when I was seven, and I would 0:10:39.493 --> 0:10:41.773 always say this was up until about two years ago 0:10:41.853 --> 0:10:44.813 and I'm forty five years old now, but I would 0:10:44.853 --> 0:10:46.693 always say, my parents made the best out of the 0:10:46.813 --> 0:10:48.973 what could have been a bad situation. They you know, 0:10:49.293 --> 0:10:51.573 they got divorced when I was seven or eight. They've 0:10:51.573 --> 0:10:55.493 always been cordial, they really did, and from my perspective, 0:10:55.533 --> 0:10:57.333 seemed like they were making it about the kids. But 0:10:57.373 --> 0:11:00.013 it wasn't until a couple of years ago that I, 0:11:00.213 --> 0:11:03.493 with some outside help and therapy, that I identified that 0:11:03.533 --> 0:11:07.133 I'm the youngest of four and ultimately went to live 0:11:07.173 --> 0:11:08.693 with my dad. I would see my mom a couple 0:11:08.813 --> 0:11:12.493 times a week. But there's like legit trauma there that 0:11:12.573 --> 0:11:15.773 I never even realized, because it's like, now I'm separated 0:11:15.813 --> 0:11:17.733 from my mom and I'm the youngest of four and 0:11:17.773 --> 0:11:21.173 I'm a mama's boy, and there was a lot there 0:11:21.213 --> 0:11:24.493 and I never really realized it. And you know, with 0:11:24.533 --> 0:11:27.013 that new awareness, it was just like, actually, that probably 0:11:27.053 --> 0:11:30.973 did have an impact on me. So yeah, I can 0:11:31.013 --> 0:11:33.293 relate a lot to what you're sharing, and it was 0:11:33.333 --> 0:11:36.213 like I just assumed that this was it was kind 0:11:36.213 --> 0:11:37.653 of normal. We just adapted. 0:11:37.973 --> 0:11:41.013 Michael, you've discussed your pain with as far as your 0:11:41.013 --> 0:11:44.493 parents separation. I want to know what role did your 0:11:44.533 --> 0:11:46.493 passion for storytelling play. 0:11:46.213 --> 0:11:46.893 In the process. 0:11:47.013 --> 0:11:50.253 Was that a way for you to escape that or 0:11:50.293 --> 0:11:52.893 was it a way to find joy in that process? Like, 0:11:53.053 --> 0:11:56.253 take me through your journey as developing your passion at 0:11:56.253 --> 0:11:57.853 the same time of dealing with this pain. 0:11:58.493 --> 0:12:02.213 Yeah, I would say, you know, I didn't grow up. 0:12:02.253 --> 0:12:04.373 I wasn't a German. I didn't I didn't write story 0:12:05.053 --> 0:12:06.493 I wasn't somebody who kept the journal. 0:12:06.613 --> 0:12:08.893 I always loved movies, always loved movies. 0:12:08.933 --> 0:12:10.653 And my uncle and I, my grandfather and I and 0:12:10.653 --> 0:12:12.893 even my grandmother as well, bonded over movies. 0:12:12.933 --> 0:12:15.533 We watched the same movies all over all the time, 0:12:15.613 --> 0:12:16.333 over and over again. 0:12:17.093 --> 0:12:19.933 And because again I grew up the grandson of a 0:12:19.973 --> 0:12:24.173 Baptist pastor and first lady, it was only certain types 0:12:24.213 --> 0:12:25.973 of movies we could watch from my grandparents' house. 0:12:26.013 --> 0:12:26.653 You know what I'm saying. 0:12:27.093 --> 0:12:28.853 You know, I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't throw all 0:12:28.973 --> 0:12:33.053 you know, Uh, you know Eddie Murphy Raw or something 0:12:33.093 --> 0:12:36.693 like that at my grandparents house. But uh, you know, 0:12:36.813 --> 0:12:40.493 love always loved movies as much as as I love sports. 0:12:40.933 --> 0:12:43.013 My grandfather and I would have a race to the 0:12:43.013 --> 0:12:48.133 newspaper to uh get the sports section to read about 0:12:48.133 --> 0:12:52.293 the Saints and and and the dispattus from Lacrosse, Wisconsin 0:12:52.333 --> 0:12:56.093 and training camp. And looking back, that that's the origin 0:12:56.173 --> 0:13:00.493 of my obsession with team building, with reporting with detail 0:13:00.733 --> 0:13:02.813 and uh and I just read. I read the sports 0:13:02.853 --> 0:13:05.813 section in particular cover to cover, and in terms of writing, 0:13:05.813 --> 0:13:07.933 I guess that I got pushed into that. More about 0:13:07.933 --> 0:13:09.973 my high school teachers who thought I had a gift 0:13:10.013 --> 0:13:13.013 for it. I did not grow up with a dream 0:13:13.733 --> 0:13:16.733 of being a sports writer, which I ended up being 0:13:16.813 --> 0:13:19.933 right out of college or during college. But what's interesting 0:13:20.013 --> 0:13:22.533 is it's somehow you manifest stuff and don't even know it. 0:13:22.893 --> 0:13:25.213 So I was the salutatory in my high school graduating 0:13:25.213 --> 0:13:28.413 class class ninety seven the local newspaper, The Times, Picking 0:13:28.453 --> 0:13:30.693 un which I would go on to work at The 0:13:30.693 --> 0:13:32.693 Times picking You. They did like a little Q and 0:13:32.733 --> 0:13:34.653 A with me, and they asked me what my dream 0:13:34.773 --> 0:13:38.213 job was and would you believe at seventeen years old, 0:13:38.573 --> 0:13:41.413 I say, as Sports Center ranker, I think it was 0:13:41.453 --> 0:13:44.693 because I grew up watching like a Stuart Scott. It 0:13:44.733 --> 0:13:47.653 was inspired by that, and like everybody else was obsessed 0:13:47.693 --> 0:13:52.493 with you know, ESPN, and I didn't pursue broadcasting. I 0:13:52.613 --> 0:13:54.573 ended up, you know, like I said, during a high 0:13:54.573 --> 0:13:57.693 school internship at the Times picking You, doing a college 0:13:57.773 --> 0:13:59.813 internship at the Times picking un in New Orleans, and 0:13:59.813 --> 0:14:02.053 then twice at the Boston Globe for two summers. And 0:14:02.093 --> 0:14:04.693 when I got out of college, I was a you know, 0:14:04.853 --> 0:14:07.253 obviously went back to the Boston Robe to work full time. 0:14:07.693 --> 0:14:10.453 And even that first internship at the time speaking You 0:14:10.613 --> 0:14:13.213 only came about because I was like, well to summer school, 0:14:13.373 --> 0:14:15.413 like a summer job. And they called me and I 0:14:15.493 --> 0:14:17.213 was like, hey, we've never had a sports intern. Would 0:14:17.213 --> 0:14:19.973 you like to be out of sports intern? I was like, sure, 0:14:19.973 --> 0:14:22.333 you mean I get paid to write about sports, sign 0:14:22.373 --> 0:14:22.733 me up. 0:14:23.333 --> 0:14:25.533 And honestly, that's where that's where it started. 0:14:25.573 --> 0:14:28.133 It started from again, somebody looking out from me and 0:14:28.173 --> 0:14:29.973 having me an opportunity, and I just took it in 0:14:29.973 --> 0:14:30.813 the ring with it. 0:14:30.813 --> 0:14:33.453 It looks like from you had a pretty good job 0:14:33.453 --> 0:14:36.013 a getting with the Boston Globe, like right, out of college. 0:14:36.333 --> 0:14:39.653 Look like you had a lot of ambition to pursue 0:14:39.653 --> 0:14:42.693 this and it looked like it served you in a way. 0:14:43.173 --> 0:14:46.373 But ultimately with uh, we'll get into how your story 0:14:46.693 --> 0:14:49.773 ends up playing out. Do you ever feel like your 0:14:49.813 --> 0:14:53.213 ambition was like hindering you in a way or hindering 0:14:53.293 --> 0:14:56.253 maybe your perspective potentially at any point in your journey? 0:14:56.373 --> 0:15:00.893 Oh god, yes, oh my god, Oh we could be 0:15:00.973 --> 0:15:02.573 we could we just spend all day just on that, 0:15:03.093 --> 0:15:06.573 you know, like I think, and because my career was 0:15:06.653 --> 0:15:09.333 on such a fast track, so like just to little 0:15:09.413 --> 0:15:11.813 quick recap. It's like, so I intern at the time 0:15:11.853 --> 0:15:14.333 speaking year after my freshman year of college. Then I 0:15:14.413 --> 0:15:17.493 interned at the Boston Globe after my sophomore in junior years, 0:15:17.493 --> 0:15:19.933 and they had never been a two time Boston Globe intern, 0:15:20.013 --> 0:15:22.293 let alone sports intern. And at the time, the Boston 0:15:22.293 --> 0:15:25.253 Globe was the premiere or pre eminent sports section in 0:15:25.293 --> 0:15:28.253 the country, like talking about Super Team, Dream Team, Boston 0:15:28.253 --> 0:15:30.733 Globe sports staff, right, So then they say come back 0:15:30.773 --> 0:15:31.333 after college. 0:15:31.333 --> 0:15:34.053 So I'm twenty one years old at the Boston Globe. 0:15:34.053 --> 0:15:36.493 They knew how much I loved covering pro football, so 0:15:36.533 --> 0:15:38.653 I'm helping out not the main beat writer, but the 0:15:38.653 --> 0:15:41.093 backup beat right on the Patriots beat. And if you 0:15:41.093 --> 0:15:44.453 do the math, that's the that's the two thousand and 0:15:44.533 --> 0:15:47.293 one season, two thousand and two Super Bowl. So I'm 0:15:47.373 --> 0:15:50.293 back in New Orleans less than a year after graduating 0:15:50.373 --> 0:15:53.093 high school covering the Super Bowl for the Boston Globe. 0:15:53.173 --> 0:15:56.093 So you're gonna talk about perspective, I had none, Okay. 0:15:56.133 --> 0:15:58.693 And then two years later they started a TV show 0:15:58.733 --> 0:16:01.333 where they're gonna put cameras in the inside of a 0:16:01.413 --> 0:16:04.173 newsroom and it's gonna be sports writers from around the country. 0:16:05.133 --> 0:16:07.493 Twenty years later, that TV show is still on television. 0:16:07.533 --> 0:16:08.253 That's around the Horn. 0:16:08.573 --> 0:16:11.013 So I'm twenty three, twenty four years old on National 0:16:11.053 --> 0:16:13.053 freaking Television on ESPN. 0:16:13.653 --> 0:16:14.013 Okay. 0:16:14.173 --> 0:16:16.373 And then at twenty four years old, ESPN's like, hey, 0:16:16.493 --> 0:16:18.693 why don't you come work for us full time? So 0:16:19.013 --> 0:16:22.813 the very thing that people spend their whole lives trying 0:16:22.853 --> 0:16:25.853 to achieve and the place they spend their whole careers 0:16:25.933 --> 0:16:28.253 trying to get to, I was there three years out 0:16:28.253 --> 0:16:28.693 of college. 0:16:28.973 --> 0:16:30.173 I had a couple of coffee. 0:16:29.853 --> 0:16:32.293 At the Boston Gold Farm at ESPN and on National Television, 0:16:32.733 --> 0:16:35.213 and I and so what I The only regret I 0:16:35.253 --> 0:16:39.573 have there is that I never appreciated the journey because 0:16:39.573 --> 0:16:43.333 I was always so fixated on what was next and 0:16:43.533 --> 0:16:49.253 more and the rat race, and I never appreciated how 0:16:49.333 --> 0:16:52.093 far I come and how quickly I come that far. 0:16:52.773 --> 0:16:54.933 And I don't think I enjoyed it as much, to 0:16:54.973 --> 0:16:57.653 be honest with you, I don't think I enjoy what 0:16:57.813 --> 0:17:00.493 I was doing. And it took a while for me 0:17:00.573 --> 0:17:02.773 to get to a place of enjoying what I was doing. 0:17:03.093 --> 0:17:04.973 And by a while, I mean only really the last 0:17:05.013 --> 0:17:08.373 few years for me to really appreciate what I did, 0:17:08.733 --> 0:17:11.933 what I had the opportunity to do, what I achieved, 0:17:11.973 --> 0:17:13.773 and how I achieved it. But man, I mean, I 0:17:13.893 --> 0:17:17.093 just it's almost like a rookie that just kind of 0:17:17.133 --> 0:17:19.413 like dominates right out to gat me, like oh this 0:17:19.533 --> 0:17:22.373 is easy, or you know, like Da Marino back in 0:17:22.413 --> 0:17:24.053 the day going to the Super Bowl his second year, 0:17:24.173 --> 0:17:25.333 like oh, I'm gonna be here all the time. 0:17:25.773 --> 0:17:25.973 It was. 0:17:26.093 --> 0:17:27.613 It was kind of like that for me. It's like, oh, 0:17:27.853 --> 0:17:29.853 this is what it's supposed to be. And so I 0:17:29.893 --> 0:17:31.573 was completely a devoted perspective. 0:17:31.653 --> 0:17:35.693 Yes, So what you're saying is it almost is like 0:17:35.853 --> 0:17:39.373 you had to have it taken from you to really 0:17:39.533 --> 0:17:40.293 appreciate it. 0:17:40.733 --> 0:17:45.213 That's exactly right. Boy, you're good at this. Yes, you 0:17:46.053 --> 0:17:48.893 would seeing right through me. Man, Yes, that's exactly right. 0:17:48.973 --> 0:17:54.773 I had to. I had to experience. So that's another thing, man, 0:17:54.813 --> 0:17:58.653 Like I was, I did not know what professional adversity was. 0:17:59.333 --> 0:18:02.613 Most people, you know, have to grind and they have 0:18:02.653 --> 0:18:04.813 to start off in like a small market. And you know, 0:18:05.013 --> 0:18:08.173 I made more money my first job out of college 0:18:08.253 --> 0:18:11.333 than my parents made in any year or years of 0:18:11.573 --> 0:18:15.373 combined my entire life, like right out of college, you know, 0:18:16.653 --> 0:18:20.333 and then I go to ESPN and I made X 0:18:20.453 --> 0:18:20.973 times that. 0:18:21.693 --> 0:18:22.333 You know what I'm saying. 0:18:22.373 --> 0:18:26.413 It's like, so I just never experienced the rough side 0:18:26.413 --> 0:18:29.053 of the mountain that so many people have to experience 0:18:29.333 --> 0:18:33.093 in this business out of college, whether it's freelancing or 0:18:33.093 --> 0:18:35.293 whether it's working at a small market or you know, 0:18:35.413 --> 0:18:38.293 I was just it all came so quickly and so easily. 0:18:38.813 --> 0:18:40.293 It wasn't until. 0:18:40.253 --> 0:18:44.413 You know, my late thirties then I actually that linear 0:18:44.973 --> 0:18:50.733 or that that accelerated path that meteoric rise was interrupted. 0:18:51.253 --> 0:18:54.213 And so that was challenging to, like I said, to 0:18:55.013 --> 0:18:58.573 have it taken away from me. And yes, the blessing 0:18:59.093 --> 0:19:03.573 in the struggle was being able to appreciate what I'd done, 0:19:03.653 --> 0:19:06.493 what i accomplished, what I'd experienced, what I've been blessed 0:19:06.533 --> 0:19:09.453 with and gifted with. But also honestly, you know, look 0:19:09.493 --> 0:19:12.973 at myself in a different way. And that and that 0:19:12.973 --> 0:19:16.013 that was that was helpful, and I needed that. I 0:19:16.053 --> 0:19:20.973 needed that struggle to, uh to better appreciate my blessings. 0:19:21.013 --> 0:19:25.373 I counted my blessings uh more deliberately when it got hard, 0:19:25.933 --> 0:19:28.573 and and and that and that was. I appreciate that 0:19:28.613 --> 0:19:30.533 because I don't I think maybe I would have just 0:19:30.533 --> 0:19:32.533 gone on taking it all for granted and thinking that 0:19:32.573 --> 0:19:33.213 it was normal. 0:19:33.533 --> 0:19:35.293 You know, It's like you don't know what you have 0:19:35.493 --> 0:19:38.813 until it's until it's gone. And space, I always like 0:19:38.853 --> 0:19:42.493 to say space. Space creates appreciation. And I've heard you 0:19:42.573 --> 0:19:45.013 say early on that you were allowing that submission. 0:19:45.693 --> 0:19:48.773 Yeah, I mean, because see I was so I'm you know, 0:19:48.853 --> 0:19:51.293 I also hit the sidebar real quick. I was just 0:19:51.293 --> 0:19:54.613 trying to thok my My stepdad is an accomplished singer, 0:19:54.693 --> 0:19:56.933 and my parents have an R and B band down 0:19:56.973 --> 0:19:59.213 in New Orleans, right, so I we had I grew 0:19:59.253 --> 0:20:02.333 up in a musical family like Vinyl everywhere, band Rehearson 0:20:02.333 --> 0:20:06.253 in the living room. And so you said spaceally creates appreciation. 0:20:06.613 --> 0:20:10.653 My mind went to Jeffrey osborn An Ltd. Concentrate on you. 0:20:10.773 --> 0:20:13.613 It takes separation to bring appreciation. So you preach it 0:20:13.693 --> 0:20:15.973 right there. That's how I use that line on the town. 0:20:16.453 --> 0:20:17.533 Yeah, oh, I love it. 0:20:17.613 --> 0:20:19.893 And but you had said early on, I've heard you 0:20:19.933 --> 0:20:21.853 say that you let your ambition get in the way 0:20:21.893 --> 0:20:25.813 of your appreciation. And that's so early or so often 0:20:26.093 --> 0:20:30.893 early in your career it was seeking external validation, which 0:20:31.013 --> 0:20:34.373 of course if you're in your twenty twenty two, twenty 0:20:34.413 --> 0:20:37.493 three years old I it brought me back to where 0:20:37.533 --> 0:20:40.573 I was at at that age and just so concerned 0:20:40.573 --> 0:20:43.573 with what other people thought about me, the external other 0:20:43.613 --> 0:20:46.813 people's opinions, because I had no tools. I'm still a 0:20:46.813 --> 0:20:50.573 young kid, you know. Even just performance based sports, everything 0:20:50.653 --> 0:20:53.053 is statistics. If you you got to be good enough 0:20:53.093 --> 0:20:54.813 to make the team, and then to make the team, 0:20:54.813 --> 0:20:57.453 you got to it was all about other people's opinions. 0:20:57.493 --> 0:21:01.573 And so it would make sense that you were so 0:21:01.573 --> 0:21:05.053 so much seeking for that external validation because you're just 0:21:05.093 --> 0:21:07.133 a kid still thrust into that world. 0:21:07.813 --> 0:21:09.413 Yeah, I don't know, I don't. 0:21:09.213 --> 0:21:12.693 Know if it was as much seeking external validation, because 0:21:12.693 --> 0:21:16.133 I mean I think it might. Actually, honestly, Donnie might 0:21:16.133 --> 0:21:18.893 have been the opposite extreme, which is like you couldn't 0:21:18.933 --> 0:21:19.733 tell me shit. 0:21:21.413 --> 0:21:23.933 It's like you could. I mean, I'm twenty three, twenty four. 0:21:23.773 --> 0:21:26.693 Years old at ESPN on national television with people twice 0:21:26.733 --> 0:21:28.573 my age, if not more, holding my own. 0:21:28.933 --> 0:21:31.213 I thought I had it all figured out. 0:21:31.253 --> 0:21:34.333 I thought I had all the answers, and that lack 0:21:34.333 --> 0:21:38.253 of perspective manifested itself and being impatient, you know what 0:21:38.293 --> 0:21:41.213 I mean, Like, you know, I wanted things that frankly 0:21:41.293 --> 0:21:45.493 I was not ready for. You know, I didn't trust 0:21:45.493 --> 0:21:46.373 the process. 0:21:46.853 --> 0:21:47.533 You know, I can. 0:21:47.493 --> 0:21:51.853 Only imagine how people listen, no matter how much of 0:21:51.853 --> 0:21:53.973 a wondercund I was, no matter how much of a 0:21:53.973 --> 0:21:56.853 prodigy I was. I can only imagine how people who 0:21:56.853 --> 0:22:00.373 had grinded and paid their dues and experienced things and 0:22:00.413 --> 0:22:03.293 seeing things must have looked at this kid, you know who. 0:22:03.973 --> 0:22:06.213 That's not that I lacked humility. I think I've always 0:22:06.253 --> 0:22:09.333 carried myself with the level of humility, But you know, 0:22:09.453 --> 0:22:12.413 I just I didn't understand what it meant to just 0:22:12.493 --> 0:22:15.853 kind of like wait, my turn and how everything came 0:22:16.293 --> 0:22:18.853 would come and do time and accordance with God's plan. 0:22:18.933 --> 0:22:21.333 It's like I wanted I wanted at all. I wanted 0:22:21.333 --> 0:22:23.213 it now, you know what I mean. If I didn't 0:22:23.213 --> 0:22:24.653 get it now, I'm like, well, why am I not 0:22:24.693 --> 0:22:25.253 getting it now? 0:22:25.613 --> 0:22:26.773 You know? I'm now. 0:22:27.013 --> 0:22:30.133 It's not it's maybe this is somewhat external validation, maybe, 0:22:30.173 --> 0:22:33.093 or it's maybe it's a very close relative of external validation. 0:22:33.173 --> 0:22:35.973 But it's like comparing myself to other people, or why 0:22:36.053 --> 0:22:37.813 is he doing that and I'm not? You know, why 0:22:37.853 --> 0:22:39.653 is he getting that and I'm not? You know, I'm 0:22:40.173 --> 0:22:41.853 better than him and I should be here and I 0:22:41.853 --> 0:22:44.053 should be doing this and I should have that, and 0:22:44.093 --> 0:22:47.253 you know, it's like that type of stuff, that comparison game. 0:22:47.533 --> 0:22:50.133 And by the way, this is pre social media, you know, 0:22:50.253 --> 0:22:52.973 because it only amplified with social media. The highlight film 0:22:52.973 --> 0:22:55.653 that everybody is paying attention to. Yeah, I think a 0:22:55.693 --> 0:22:57.773 lot of that robbed me of that perspective that we 0:22:57.853 --> 0:22:58.733 a litle too earlier. 0:22:59.133 --> 0:23:02.893 When you talk about the level of confidence and ego 0:23:02.933 --> 0:23:06.533 that you have, like I'm him, like I'm here. I 0:23:06.533 --> 0:23:11.893 feel like for me and my experience when moments that 0:23:11.973 --> 0:23:15.293 come that may threaten that thought I have about myself. 0:23:15.653 --> 0:23:17.853 It's easy for me to slip into self doubt. Do 0:23:17.893 --> 0:23:20.853 you feel like you felt that way when it seemed 0:23:20.893 --> 0:23:24.773 like the career that you built was now uncertain? 0:23:25.133 --> 0:23:27.053 Yes, and that always confused me. 0:23:27.053 --> 0:23:29.493 Maybe y'all can help me with that, because you know, 0:23:29.733 --> 0:23:33.333 there was a lot there were times despite my confidence 0:23:33.373 --> 0:23:36.213 and bravado and how self assured I was, there was 0:23:36.253 --> 0:23:39.053 also some impostle syndrome. And I'm not sureing how those 0:23:39.053 --> 0:23:42.133 two things can coexist. I'm not sophisticated enough to break 0:23:42.133 --> 0:23:44.493 down how those can co exist because I always thought 0:23:44.813 --> 0:23:48.093 that am I gonna get exposed? And then when I would? 0:23:48.373 --> 0:23:50.573 You know, and when I say, I did not experience 0:23:50.613 --> 0:23:53.533 real professional adversity back in those days, and I guess 0:23:53.573 --> 0:23:55.133 we're at the time period where I'm in my early 0:23:55.173 --> 0:23:58.013 twenties and I'm on the fast track and my mid 0:23:58.053 --> 0:24:00.893 twenties or whatever. Back in those days, I thought I 0:24:00.933 --> 0:24:03.413 was experiencing adversity, but didn't really know what adversity was. 0:24:03.413 --> 0:24:06.693 In hindsight, right, you know, there was a lot of uh, well, 0:24:06.973 --> 0:24:08.653 you know, am I as good as I think I am? 0:24:09.173 --> 0:24:12.573 And Okay, down there there's the external validation, right, So 0:24:12.613 --> 0:24:12.933 it was. 0:24:12.893 --> 0:24:15.733 Like, am I really am I really? Am? Am I 0:24:15.733 --> 0:24:16.973 fooling myself? You know? 0:24:17.613 --> 0:24:20.053 Maybe I'm Maybe I'm not all that in a bag 0:24:20.093 --> 0:24:22.613 of chips, you know, and maybe this is all there 0:24:22.693 --> 0:24:25.813 is for me. Maybe what I want, what I'm dreaming of, 0:24:25.933 --> 0:24:28.693 will never come, maybe it's not for me. And then 0:24:28.773 --> 0:24:31.453 there was all sort of resentment. So that's the internal part. 0:24:31.493 --> 0:24:34.173 Then there's the what they don't appreciate me, you know, 0:24:34.333 --> 0:24:36.853 they don't, they don't they don't see the start that 0:24:36.933 --> 0:24:39.133 I am. They don't you know, I'm not getting what 0:24:39.173 --> 0:24:41.293 I deserve, you know, they sleeping on your boy, all 0:24:41.293 --> 0:24:43.773 that type of stuff. So it's it kind of vacillated 0:24:43.813 --> 0:24:47.693 between uh, some self doubt and then some resentment and. 0:24:47.653 --> 0:24:49.973 Frustration and professional frustration about. 0:24:49.853 --> 0:24:53.573 Feeling like I wasn't getting, you know, what I wanted, 0:24:54.573 --> 0:24:57.053 you know, or what I deserved better, better what I 0:24:57.093 --> 0:24:59.453 deserved when I should have gotten it. 0:24:59.773 --> 0:25:02.373 Darren, can you relate to that imposter syndrome? I know 0:25:02.413 --> 0:25:04.173 we've talked about it a bunch. I know I have it, 0:25:04.253 --> 0:25:06.373 but I I'd love to hear your thoughts and how 0:25:06.413 --> 0:25:08.573 you work through that on the stage that you have. 0:25:09.253 --> 0:25:11.453 Oh yeah, I got. I have two. I have two 0:25:11.533 --> 0:25:13.813 things for you. One I don't know if I've shared 0:25:13.973 --> 0:25:18.613 either one of these, but one is twenty twenty, we 0:25:18.773 --> 0:25:20.533 played the New York Jets, which is actually the day 0:25:20.573 --> 0:25:22.973 before was the day we recorded the very first episode 0:25:23.013 --> 0:25:26.373 of Comeback Stories. Had to plug that in there. But 0:25:26.773 --> 0:25:29.813 the Jets game, I had two hundred yards receiving that game, 0:25:30.533 --> 0:25:33.493 and very easily could have been more if there were 0:25:33.493 --> 0:25:37.333 a couple of little things that I could have done differently. 0:25:37.693 --> 0:25:40.653 But the next practice we have on Wednesday, I think 0:25:40.693 --> 0:25:43.373 I drop a pass like in routes on air, and 0:25:43.413 --> 0:25:45.733 I'm like, I don't even know why I'm building a 0:25:45.733 --> 0:25:47.933 house out here. They're gonna shit me out of this place. 0:25:48.093 --> 0:25:51.413 Like that's how quick my mind can shift. I've two 0:25:51.533 --> 0:25:54.173 hundred yards. I think there's only been four tight ends 0:25:54.173 --> 0:25:56.173 in the history of the NFL that I've ever done 0:25:56.253 --> 0:26:00.613 what I've just done. And I come and I meet 0:26:00.653 --> 0:26:04.013 a moment of not even real adversity, just a human 0:26:04.573 --> 0:26:08.173 experience in this game that I play, and I'm so 0:26:08.333 --> 0:26:11.373 quick to go to the complete other end of the spectrum. 0:26:11.453 --> 0:26:14.333 And my sponsor paints a picture that's so vivid if 0:26:14.373 --> 0:26:17.493 you look at a spectrum, right, and there's there's a 0:26:17.573 --> 0:26:21.613 one and a ten. A ten is you're being an egomaniac, 0:26:22.173 --> 0:26:25.133 and a one would be you're so anti ego that 0:26:25.533 --> 0:26:28.413 you don't even really have true humility or affirm your 0:26:28.453 --> 0:26:31.413 own strengths. And my sponsors like, brother, we got to 0:26:31.453 --> 0:26:34.493 get you to a five, like meditate on that, like 0:26:34.533 --> 0:26:36.573 what does a five look like? What does a balance 0:26:36.613 --> 0:26:40.173 look like? To where you can show up and be 0:26:40.333 --> 0:26:43.173 confident in what you bring to the table without having 0:26:43.213 --> 0:26:46.013 to flex it on everybody else or be seen for it, 0:26:46.213 --> 0:26:49.813 but really to truly just embody your truest energy and 0:26:49.853 --> 0:26:53.533 your truest self and show up in that manner. And 0:26:53.573 --> 0:26:55.413 it's still an ongoing practice for me. I'm sure it's 0:26:55.413 --> 0:26:58.413 an ongoing practice for all of us. It's something that 0:26:58.413 --> 0:26:59.853 we have to keep in the forefront of our mind. 0:26:59.893 --> 0:27:03.333 And Michael, I feel like you're starting and really starting 0:27:03.373 --> 0:27:06.413 to get that because you've experienced what people would see 0:27:06.413 --> 0:27:09.973 as shiny and sexy success being on the six PM 0:27:09.973 --> 0:27:13.053 Sports Center slot, but that wasn't ultimately fulfilling for you. 0:27:13.293 --> 0:27:15.213 But now being able to be in a position where 0:27:15.213 --> 0:27:18.453 telling your own stories and doing what you want to 0:27:18.493 --> 0:27:21.053 do is that much more fulfilling, Like how does one 0:27:21.253 --> 0:27:22.773 arrive to that point? 0:27:22.933 --> 0:27:25.813 How did I arrive to that point? 0:27:26.093 --> 0:27:28.453 One of the things I like about this show, you know, 0:27:28.493 --> 0:27:31.093 as a storyteller, it certainly resonates for me, is how 0:27:31.093 --> 0:27:33.693 you guys talk about the story you tell yourselves. 0:27:33.893 --> 0:27:36.493 Sorry, I'll try to. It's very very complicated. 0:27:37.213 --> 0:27:40.853 Literally books have been written about it, but I'll try 0:27:40.853 --> 0:27:46.013 to summarize the inflection point, you know, which is why 0:27:46.053 --> 0:27:48.813 I name my company Inflection Point Entertainment when I found 0:27:48.813 --> 0:27:50.653 it back in twenty twenty, because that's when the story 0:27:50.693 --> 0:27:51.213 gets good. 0:27:51.893 --> 0:27:53.133 Sometimes I just don't know it. 0:27:54.373 --> 0:27:57.853 I get my own show back in twenty eleven, I 0:27:57.853 --> 0:28:00.533 would have been for mathis right, that's what thirty two. 0:28:01.133 --> 0:28:04.013 It becomes a hit. Around twenty fourteen, it really starts 0:28:04.013 --> 0:28:08.893 to take off. Twenty seventeen, I get that job that 0:28:08.933 --> 0:28:11.813 I manifested as a teenager. I had no idea what 0:28:11.813 --> 0:28:13.173 I was saying as a sports center ancor on a 0:28:13.213 --> 0:28:14.173 six PM a sports center. 0:28:14.733 --> 0:28:18.293 In short, it was a disaster for a number. 0:28:18.093 --> 0:28:20.613 Of reasons, which we can get into, or we could 0:28:20.653 --> 0:28:23.213 say that for another time, because y'all only got. 0:28:23.093 --> 0:28:23.773 So much time. 0:28:24.893 --> 0:28:29.693 But you know, I was in professional limbo from I 0:28:29.693 --> 0:28:33.493 would say twenty eighteen. March Night twenty eighteen was my 0:28:33.573 --> 0:28:36.573 last Sports Center March ninth to twenty eighteen to September 0:28:36.573 --> 0:28:39.093 of twenty nineteen. It so about eighteen months I was 0:28:39.133 --> 0:28:42.053 in professional limbo, just kind of off the grid. I 0:28:42.133 --> 0:28:44.093 was off the grid, but I was in my own 0:28:44.133 --> 0:28:46.813 head quite a bit, and it took me a while 0:28:47.213 --> 0:28:50.013 and a couple of startups to get to a point 0:28:50.053 --> 0:28:54.293 where I started to tell myself the story in which 0:28:55.333 --> 0:29:02.493 that chapter, that ESPN chapter or chapters were necessary, and 0:29:02.533 --> 0:29:06.093 be grateful for those chapters because, like with every story, 0:29:06.173 --> 0:29:09.893 those chapters proceeded and set up and laid the foundation 0:29:10.053 --> 0:29:12.253 for what was to come. And once I could get 0:29:12.333 --> 0:29:16.213 past my bitterness and resentment that I felt about how 0:29:17.173 --> 0:29:18.573 what I think, if I may say so, it was 0:29:18.573 --> 0:29:21.973 a damn good fifteen year run how it ended, I 0:29:22.013 --> 0:29:24.533 was able to appreciate it and count it all joy 0:29:25.133 --> 0:29:30.893 and celebrated and not be ashamed of anything. And even 0:29:30.933 --> 0:29:32.733 the idea I was thinking about this, you know, I 0:29:32.733 --> 0:29:34.533 was gonna talk to you guys, the idea of a comeback. 0:29:34.653 --> 0:29:34.853 Right. 0:29:35.413 --> 0:29:38.613 When I think of comebacks, I think of, well, I'm 0:29:38.653 --> 0:29:42.773 trailing or I'm losing or I'm behind, but according to 0:29:42.813 --> 0:29:43.653 whose scoreboard? 0:29:44.013 --> 0:29:44.293 Right? 0:29:44.813 --> 0:29:47.733 It's like, you know, I was winning the whole time. 0:29:48.373 --> 0:29:51.973 But my perspective was I had suffered a loss or 0:29:52.013 --> 0:29:55.373 a setback. Wasn't It wasn't a setback. It was just 0:29:55.373 --> 0:29:57.093 the end of one chapter but at the beginning of 0:29:57.133 --> 0:29:59.653 another one, and I was just moving in a different direction, 0:29:59.773 --> 0:30:03.813 but still moving forward. Nonetheless, I had to, like, you know, 0:30:04.813 --> 0:30:06.213 which means to change your mind. 0:30:06.253 --> 0:30:06.653 I had to. 0:30:06.733 --> 0:30:10.093 I had to change my mind in my paradigm from man, 0:30:10.133 --> 0:30:15.013 I'm holding the l to okay, I'm actually being pushed 0:30:15.053 --> 0:30:19.333 and moved into more of my purpose. I was using 0:30:19.333 --> 0:30:22.053 this comparison to somebody earlier. It's kind of like it's 0:30:22.093 --> 0:30:24.733 kind of like renting a house versus buying it, you know, 0:30:24.893 --> 0:30:26.173 like owning a house is a. 0:30:26.053 --> 0:30:29.213 Pain in the ass, you know, But I wouldn't rent. 0:30:29.413 --> 0:30:30.853 I prefer to own my own home. 0:30:31.013 --> 0:30:35.293 And now I'm owning my career in a way that 0:30:35.373 --> 0:30:37.453 I didn't no matter how much I was getting paid, 0:30:37.453 --> 0:30:40.333 no matter how recognizable I was, butter how successful I was, 0:30:40.773 --> 0:30:44.533 I didn't own those ideas, that intellectual property. 0:30:44.573 --> 0:30:46.493 I didn't own that platform. And I learned that the 0:30:46.533 --> 0:30:48.013 hard way, right, I. 0:30:48.053 --> 0:30:52.013 Now can tell my own stories and empower other people 0:30:52.053 --> 0:30:54.693 to tell their stories and to own their stories and 0:30:54.693 --> 0:30:57.613 to own their narratives. And that started with me owning 0:30:57.733 --> 0:31:00.613 like as you guys often say, owning my own narrative 0:31:00.693 --> 0:31:02.893 and not letting other people write my story for me, 0:31:02.933 --> 0:31:05.653 like not what kind of story tell myself? But what 0:31:05.773 --> 0:31:08.693 kind of story am I writing for myself? And what 0:31:08.853 --> 0:31:11.853 is my next chapter? Who are the characters that need 0:31:11.893 --> 0:31:14.253 to be written out of my story? Who are the 0:31:14.253 --> 0:31:16.933 people that I want to introduce into my story? Where 0:31:17.013 --> 0:31:18.693 do I want to take my story? Like I'm in 0:31:18.733 --> 0:31:22.773 complete control of how I contextualize that. And it just 0:31:22.813 --> 0:31:25.053 took me a while, a lot of dark days, a 0:31:25.053 --> 0:31:28.853 lot of sleepless nights, a lot of anxiety to work 0:31:28.893 --> 0:31:32.053 through that to be comfortable with where I was and 0:31:32.093 --> 0:31:34.613 where I was going to answer a question like that's 0:31:34.653 --> 0:31:36.733 how I got to a point where I'm fulfilled in 0:31:36.893 --> 0:31:41.653 what I'm doing because my next chapter is challenging in 0:31:41.693 --> 0:31:44.173 a way that my last one wasn't you know, And 0:31:44.253 --> 0:31:47.853 even if I don't, you know, succeed in the same ways, 0:31:47.933 --> 0:31:50.733 successes look different. And so now I'm keeping my own 0:31:50.773 --> 0:31:54.693 score and so my wins are up to me to 0:31:54.733 --> 0:31:57.053 determine what are my wins or if I view something 0:31:57.093 --> 0:31:59.493 as a loss. And that was the shift for me, 0:32:00.133 --> 0:32:02.613 is to not look at the way things ended at 0:32:02.813 --> 0:32:07.133 ESPN as a law as a setback from which I 0:32:07.213 --> 0:32:08.693 had to come back from. 0:32:08.733 --> 0:32:10.453 Like no, it was just a setup for what was. 0:32:10.493 --> 0:32:14.573 Next ownership that we were just talking about this on 0:32:14.613 --> 0:32:17.973 a previous conversation Darren and I were having where my 0:32:18.093 --> 0:32:21.773 life completely changed when I started to take ownership and 0:32:21.853 --> 0:32:26.013 started blaming stop blaming everybody else for my problems. And 0:32:26.613 --> 0:32:29.893 you also mentioned success, and I think it's so important 0:32:29.893 --> 0:32:32.213 to come up with our own definition of success because 0:32:32.293 --> 0:32:34.373 the hook and I think why a lot of people 0:32:34.453 --> 0:32:38.933 are unhappy is because they're basing their success on somebody 0:32:38.973 --> 0:32:42.493 else's definition, which is why it's so important to look 0:32:42.493 --> 0:32:45.733 at our values and come up with our own definition 0:32:45.813 --> 0:32:50.253 of success. With that gap and not working, it was 0:32:50.293 --> 0:32:52.773 too I think you said twenty eighteen to twenty nineteen. 0:32:52.893 --> 0:32:55.013 Yeah, now I was still with I was still with ESPN. 0:32:55.173 --> 0:32:58.053 This is how messed up I was and how hard 0:32:58.093 --> 0:33:00.253 it was. It's like I was still getting paid a 0:33:00.293 --> 0:33:03.013 lot of money to not work. But that was such 0:33:03.053 --> 0:33:05.093 a mind job, because you know, I never did it 0:33:05.133 --> 0:33:07.613 for the money, and my routine was so interrupted. 0:33:07.653 --> 0:33:09.213 And I can unpack that a little bit more later. 0:33:09.493 --> 0:33:13.093 But I was still with ESPN, but was unable to 0:33:13.133 --> 0:33:17.293 appreciate the blessing that that stretch was for all the 0:33:17.333 --> 0:33:20.493 anxiety about what was next and all the resentment about 0:33:20.533 --> 0:33:22.133 what had just happened. But go ahead, Donnie, Sorry, I 0:33:22.173 --> 0:33:23.773 just want to clarify it. 0:33:23.813 --> 0:33:26.733 I was. I was still there, but just not as prominent. 0:33:27.333 --> 0:33:29.613 Yeah, I was just going to say, what was with 0:33:29.773 --> 0:33:32.533 all of that happening? Did you have a lowest point? 0:33:32.573 --> 0:33:34.373 I mean, Darren and I have lowest points. There were 0:33:34.413 --> 0:33:37.653 the result of an addiction, which was which much of 0:33:37.693 --> 0:33:40.493 it was self inflicted. But can you take us to 0:33:40.573 --> 0:33:41.733 maybe your lowest point? 0:33:42.253 --> 0:33:46.773 Oo? Man, Okay. And the reason I struggle to pick 0:33:46.813 --> 0:33:48.053 one hour is because it was such. 0:33:47.933 --> 0:33:50.853 A stretch, like I don't know, I don't know that 0:33:50.933 --> 0:33:55.733 there was one ground zero or you know, I'd have 0:33:55.813 --> 0:33:56.773 to think about it. 0:33:57.973 --> 0:34:00.373 I just know that I was I was a shell 0:34:00.413 --> 0:34:01.133 of myself. 0:34:01.173 --> 0:34:03.493 I would say I was just in a fog for 0:34:03.533 --> 0:34:06.213 a long time and I just couldn't I felt like 0:34:06.253 --> 0:34:08.693 a prisoner. I think somebody wrote about it, and they 0:34:08.733 --> 0:34:11.613 said that, you know, these gold plated handcuffs that I had, 0:34:11.613 --> 0:34:14.213 I was making a shit ton of money to do nothing. 0:34:15.053 --> 0:34:17.773 And I, Okay, this isn't a point, Donny, but this 0:34:17.853 --> 0:34:20.293 is a I guess this is an example. I stopped 0:34:20.293 --> 0:34:25.893 watching sports altogether because I couldn't watch sports because for 0:34:26.133 --> 0:34:31.173 fifteen for almost twenty years, I had consumed sports through 0:34:31.213 --> 0:34:35.773 the prism of somebody who was a part of that 0:34:35.933 --> 0:34:40.453 machine as far as well, I'm watching this game, and 0:34:40.653 --> 0:34:45.653 I'm formulating opinions and thoughts and crystallizing my perspective of 0:34:45.733 --> 0:34:49.373 my commentary that I'm going to now present to the 0:34:49.453 --> 0:34:51.573 masses tomorrow. I got a showlder do, I got a 0:34:51.653 --> 0:34:54.853 job to do, and so I had to go to restaurants, 0:34:54.893 --> 0:34:57.093 for example, and make sure that my back was to 0:34:57.133 --> 0:35:00.573 the television because I couldn't watch ESPN because it was triggering, 0:35:01.093 --> 0:35:03.213 you know, when I was at home. You know, my 0:35:03.293 --> 0:35:06.253 favorite event as the NFL Draft. It's my favorite sporting event, 0:35:06.293 --> 0:35:08.493 which speaks to the nerd that I am. And I 0:35:08.493 --> 0:35:10.933 couldn't watch the NFL Draft because all I could think 0:35:10.933 --> 0:35:13.013 about was the years that I was a part of 0:35:13.013 --> 0:35:16.853 the NFL Draft coverage. I couldn't watch, you know, any 0:35:16.893 --> 0:35:18.813 of the talk shows because all I would think about 0:35:18.973 --> 0:35:20.613 was I should still be doing that. 0:35:20.813 --> 0:35:22.893 I should still I should still be I should still 0:35:22.893 --> 0:35:25.133 be a part of that. All it did was remind 0:35:25.173 --> 0:35:28.733 me of opening those old wounds and remind me of 0:35:28.733 --> 0:35:32.573 that of that trauma. You know, I had to distance 0:35:32.613 --> 0:35:36.533 myself from sports for a long time until I was 0:35:36.573 --> 0:35:40.293 pulled back in it in twenty twenty, you know, and 0:35:40.333 --> 0:35:41.973 my son actually brought me back into it, to be 0:35:41.973 --> 0:35:44.733 honest with you, because I realized that I was robbing 0:35:44.813 --> 0:35:48.373 him of some experiences with his father. And I got 0:35:48.413 --> 0:35:50.133 back into sports when I started to kind of view 0:35:50.173 --> 0:35:52.813 it through his eyes and the innocence of his eyes, 0:35:54.133 --> 0:35:55.293 and you know, took him to some. 0:35:55.333 --> 0:35:58.893 Games and watch some games with him as he grew older. 0:35:58.933 --> 0:36:00.853 And he's fifteen now, but he was just starting to 0:36:00.853 --> 0:36:03.493 really get into it when I was stopped being selfish 0:36:03.493 --> 0:36:04.973 about it and saying, all right, I don't want to 0:36:04.973 --> 0:36:06.813 watch it because it was hurting me. But the joy 0:36:06.893 --> 0:36:08.813 that he was getting out of it and the bonding 0:36:08.813 --> 0:36:11.413 that we were able to experience that also brought me 0:36:11.453 --> 0:36:13.893 back into sports. But I would say, you know, and 0:36:14.173 --> 0:36:15.893 if a moment comes to me, I'll share it. Like, 0:36:16.093 --> 0:36:18.653 you know, I can't remember like one out of the 0:36:18.693 --> 0:36:21.733 many sleepless nights, I can't remember one, you know, out 0:36:21.733 --> 0:36:24.413 of the many. It was a time when I just 0:36:24.693 --> 0:36:27.733 I couldn't go a day without going down that hole, 0:36:27.813 --> 0:36:30.093 that rabbit hole. I couldn't, you know. And mind you, 0:36:30.413 --> 0:36:33.733 I still live in Connecticut. I'm still a stone's throw 0:36:33.733 --> 0:36:36.413 away from ESPN. And somebody told me a long time ago, 0:36:36.573 --> 0:36:39.533 you can't kill where you got sick. And so I 0:36:39.533 --> 0:36:42.573 would drive past that place and I would have to 0:36:42.573 --> 0:36:45.813 almost like cut off my peripheral vision so that I 0:36:45.853 --> 0:36:47.093 didn't look in that direction. 0:36:47.293 --> 0:36:50.333 Like it was a hard, difficult. 0:36:49.813 --> 0:36:53.213 Shit like I was like my like my head is 0:36:53.253 --> 0:36:55.813 just was just like I had so many thoughts and 0:36:55.813 --> 0:36:58.133 I kept flashing back to moments and what could I 0:36:58.133 --> 0:37:00.693 have done differently? And was it? Was it really my fault? 0:37:00.733 --> 0:37:02.773 And you know, how could this have happened to me? 0:37:02.933 --> 0:37:05.093 And like y'all remember that movie Kill Bill, Volume two 0:37:05.093 --> 0:37:07.773 when the bride finally meets Bill at the end and. 0:37:07.773 --> 0:37:11.373 She said, you know, could you do that? Yes? But 0:37:11.453 --> 0:37:13.293 I never thought you could do that to me. 0:37:13.533 --> 0:37:16.053 Somewhere along the line, I got it twisted that I 0:37:16.373 --> 0:37:19.333 would never be shown the door, you know. And I 0:37:19.373 --> 0:37:20.613 don't know if it's because I thought I was so 0:37:20.733 --> 0:37:23.213 good or because I had such a long tenure, but 0:37:23.253 --> 0:37:27.333 it was like I was completely mind fucked, you know, 0:37:27.413 --> 0:37:30.733 for the longest stretch of time. It's really I guess 0:37:30.733 --> 0:37:33.693 time is the point, like time heals all wounds. And 0:37:33.853 --> 0:37:35.613 you know, once I started to kind of like just 0:37:35.693 --> 0:37:39.813 really move forward and really embrace where I was as 0:37:39.813 --> 0:37:42.293 opposed to looking back on where I had come from 0:37:42.653 --> 0:37:46.573 and where I thought I should still be. Once that unlocked, 0:37:47.253 --> 0:37:49.853 that that changed everything for me. And I'll tell you what, 0:37:49.893 --> 0:37:52.413 I don't miss it at all, not a you know not. 0:37:52.893 --> 0:37:54.893 I never sit around and say, oh I wish I. 0:37:54.853 --> 0:37:59.093 Was still there. Never I wouldn't. I'm glad. 0:37:59.573 --> 0:38:02.173 And the funny thing is, for a long time, I said, 0:38:02.733 --> 0:38:05.053 this goes back to ego. For a long time, I said, oh, 0:38:05.333 --> 0:38:07.413 I want to spend fifteen years at ESPN and leave 0:38:07.493 --> 0:38:10.293 when I was when I'm forty years old. I spent 0:38:10.373 --> 0:38:12.173 fifteen years at ESPN and left when I was forty 0:38:12.213 --> 0:38:15.493 years old. It was the how that I left that 0:38:15.533 --> 0:38:17.333 messed me up. I wanted to be the one to 0:38:17.333 --> 0:38:19.013 break up with them. I wanted to be the one 0:38:19.053 --> 0:38:21.453 to say, you know what, it's been real. I wanted 0:38:21.493 --> 0:38:23.533 bigger and better. I had no idea I was going 0:38:23.573 --> 0:38:26.013 to take a buyout and kind of leave with a whimper. 0:38:26.493 --> 0:38:26.693 You know. 0:38:26.693 --> 0:38:28.413 I thought I'd get a cake and shit and a 0:38:28.453 --> 0:38:31.453 special and a moon tage of all my greatest moments, 0:38:31.453 --> 0:38:33.373 you know what I mean. Like, nah, I play Daddy 0:38:33.493 --> 0:38:35.733 Hide ends for all of us. Everybody came right off 0:38:35.733 --> 0:38:39.013 into the sunset. But I remember the sun shining real 0:38:39.133 --> 0:38:41.973 bright the day I decided I'm not just gonna sit 0:38:41.973 --> 0:38:44.773 here in Limbo, I'm going to leave. And I drove off, 0:38:44.773 --> 0:38:46.893 and I remember the weather. The birds were singing, the 0:38:46.933 --> 0:38:49.573 weather was beautiful, and I handed my ID badge into 0:38:49.613 --> 0:38:52.293 the security guard for the last time, and I felt 0:38:52.333 --> 0:38:55.613 so free for a moment. I still had some trauma 0:38:55.653 --> 0:38:57.213 to work through after that, but I felt free for 0:38:57.293 --> 0:39:01.373 that moment. And now I just feel like I'm supposed 0:39:01.413 --> 0:39:02.533 to be here, and I was supposed to go through 0:39:02.573 --> 0:39:03.933 all that for a reason to be here with y'all. 0:39:03.973 --> 0:39:09.453 Right now, man, oh man, wow, I got that marinate 0:39:09.493 --> 0:39:09.973 for a second. 0:39:10.693 --> 0:39:12.373 I hope I'm not rambling too much. Man, It's just 0:39:12.413 --> 0:39:12.773 you know, y'all. 0:39:12.853 --> 0:39:17.333 Just no, No, that's just it's so, it's just it's 0:39:17.333 --> 0:39:20.573 just so, it's just so powerful, you know, Like I man, 0:39:20.733 --> 0:39:24.573 I have a gold plated handcuffs experience myself getting to 0:39:24.613 --> 0:39:29.453 the NFL drafted. I'm with the Baltimore Ravens. Every single 0:39:29.533 --> 0:39:31.773 goal that could be on a sheet of paper, I've 0:39:31.853 --> 0:39:36.213 checked off, and I've never never been more miserable making 0:39:36.333 --> 0:39:38.933 great money. You know, everybody knows who I am. Everybody 0:39:38.933 --> 0:39:42.293 from my hometown holds me in a certain puts me 0:39:42.333 --> 0:39:45.093 on a pedestal because of what I've done. And I 0:39:45.133 --> 0:39:49.213 was like, this is all I've ever wanted, and it 0:39:49.373 --> 0:39:53.173 ends up being the most painful internally to the point 0:39:53.173 --> 0:39:55.453 to the point where I wanted to self sabotage it 0:39:55.533 --> 0:39:59.533 and not wanted to succeeded in self sabotaging it, because 0:39:59.813 --> 0:40:02.573 not only was I struggling with do I even deserve this? 0:40:02.773 --> 0:40:05.053 But this is it was so much pain of like, 0:40:05.093 --> 0:40:07.093 this is what I've been searching for all my life, 0:40:07.133 --> 0:40:10.133 and this is all that it was to stomach. That 0:40:10.293 --> 0:40:14.573 was a lot. And when I got banned from the 0:40:14.613 --> 0:40:17.693 league for a year, go to rehab, come back, get 0:40:17.693 --> 0:40:20.253 a job working at Sprouts, like there's no intention on 0:40:20.293 --> 0:40:24.293 me ever returning to football. Like I was like you, like, 0:40:24.533 --> 0:40:27.333 I'm not trying to watch football games. I'm not trying 0:40:27.333 --> 0:40:30.133 to go to my college or my high school and 0:40:30.173 --> 0:40:32.373 be like this is a guy that made it to 0:40:33.453 --> 0:40:34.973 I wanted nothing to do with any of that, but 0:40:35.053 --> 0:40:38.173 it was literally the authentic joy in the relationship with 0:40:38.213 --> 0:40:40.093 the guy that I was training with. His name is 0:40:40.173 --> 0:40:43.213 Nakway Mac and getting out there back on the field 0:40:43.253 --> 0:40:45.173 and just filling the grass underneath my feet, you know, 0:40:45.853 --> 0:40:49.773 running through the same drills and just being immersed in 0:40:49.773 --> 0:40:52.373 the moment of just improving my craft. We were sharing 0:40:52.373 --> 0:40:55.133 the field with a high school team seven on seventeen 0:40:55.133 --> 0:40:56.373 and let us get like the twenty yards of the 0:40:56.413 --> 0:40:58.373 end zone and we just running drills, and it's just 0:40:58.413 --> 0:41:01.213 like gaining an appreciation for just the work of what 0:41:01.293 --> 0:41:04.973 I'm doing, not necessarily where I'm going and how it 0:41:05.013 --> 0:41:06.773 looks or whether I'm in front of a lot of 0:41:06.773 --> 0:41:09.293 people or I'm in the spotlight, but just like, do 0:41:09.333 --> 0:41:12.893 I feel good about what I'm doing right here right now? 0:41:13.093 --> 0:41:16.733 In days stacked of that allowed me to not only 0:41:16.813 --> 0:41:18.533 return to the game, but return to the game with 0:41:18.573 --> 0:41:22.533 a purpose. I'm not just here to entertain you. I'm 0:41:22.573 --> 0:41:26.573 here to have a platform and to attract attention to 0:41:27.133 --> 0:41:30.133 me somebody that's been broken, somebody that's been hurting, somebody 0:41:30.173 --> 0:41:34.333 that's done the worldly success thing and achieved everything but 0:41:34.773 --> 0:41:37.173 felt meetingless on the inside. Like I need to get 0:41:37.173 --> 0:41:38.813 these words out of me. I need to get this 0:41:38.893 --> 0:41:41.493 story out of me, because somebody needs to hear this 0:41:41.533 --> 0:41:45.333 because we're believing lies. We're believing lies about ourselves and 0:41:45.373 --> 0:41:48.533 the narratives we tell ourselves and just overall what we 0:41:48.573 --> 0:41:51.213 think life should be and what a success is. And 0:41:51.453 --> 0:41:53.253 I think about it, if only I didn't have to 0:41:53.253 --> 0:41:54.733 go through it, But now I'm like, shame on me 0:41:54.853 --> 0:41:56.813 for thinking if I didn't have to go through it, 0:41:56.853 --> 0:41:59.813 because going through it has turned into the most beautiful 0:41:59.853 --> 0:42:03.733 perspective shifter for me. And I know Donnie feels the 0:42:03.813 --> 0:42:06.373 same way. If somebody's writing their story right now and 0:42:06.413 --> 0:42:09.453 you listen to this, like, it's not going to come 0:42:09.613 --> 0:42:12.093 free of pain, it's not going to come free of disappointment, 0:42:12.133 --> 0:42:16.173 it's not going to come free of heartbreak at times, 0:42:16.213 --> 0:42:20.133 but it's gonna get better. And it sounds cliche and 0:42:20.413 --> 0:42:21.813 it's hard to believe in the moment because I look 0:42:21.813 --> 0:42:24.173 at people like, man, whatever when they tell me that. 0:42:24.333 --> 0:42:26.653 But it became true for me, and it's still true 0:42:26.653 --> 0:42:27.453 for me to this day. 0:42:27.813 --> 0:42:30.933 Your test was a testimony. Man, that's beautiful. 0:42:31.653 --> 0:42:33.893 Did you suffer from embarrassment because I know, I know 0:42:33.973 --> 0:42:36.453 I struggle with embarrassment when I was going through it. 0:42:36.493 --> 0:42:39.653 Because even though whether things that I could have done 0:42:39.693 --> 0:42:43.253 differently or ways I could approach approach my situation differently, yes, 0:42:43.773 --> 0:42:47.533 you know, do I have some regrets about things that 0:42:47.613 --> 0:42:50.053 I wish would have gone differently, yes, but a lot 0:42:50.093 --> 0:42:53.133 of things were a lot of the way everything played out. 0:42:53.253 --> 0:42:55.573 And it's not that I'm pointing a finger. I'm saying 0:42:55.573 --> 0:42:57.773 it was things beyond my control. You know, understand, I'm 0:42:57.773 --> 0:42:59.693 saying like its just that had nothing to do with me, 0:42:59.733 --> 0:43:01.653 which is also part of egos, like realizing that it's 0:43:01.653 --> 0:43:05.733 not really about shot. But I when when I was 0:43:05.853 --> 0:43:08.733 kind of you know, for lack of better foras put 0:43:08.733 --> 0:43:11.293 in a corner, some would say made an example of 0:43:11.853 --> 0:43:14.613 which is a whole other conversation. I thought it was 0:43:14.653 --> 0:43:19.813 a referendum or an indictment on my ability or lack thereof. Well, 0:43:19.893 --> 0:43:22.333 I must not be the ship if they could just 0:43:22.413 --> 0:43:24.453 like kick me to the curve like this. You know, 0:43:24.573 --> 0:43:26.333 this must be because I'm not that good, because they 0:43:26.373 --> 0:43:28.853 wouldn't do that to X, Y or Z. And then 0:43:29.453 --> 0:43:31.653 going back to like I said earlier, like coming back 0:43:31.733 --> 0:43:33.933 or trailing or losing the court to whose scoreboard it's 0:43:33.973 --> 0:43:37.653 like the outside world definitely let me know that I 0:43:38.093 --> 0:43:40.533 took an l that I that I had fallen off, 0:43:40.733 --> 0:43:41.933 you know that you know. 0:43:42.373 --> 0:43:45.413 Was writing my story for me, and this was the end. 0:43:45.733 --> 0:43:45.973 You know. 0:43:46.173 --> 0:43:48.373 It took a while, and then one of the best 0:43:48.413 --> 0:43:51.493 things somebody said to me, my friend Jane McManus at 0:43:51.493 --> 0:43:53.213 the time, she was in charge of the communication. 0:43:53.213 --> 0:43:55.933 She's a you know, very successful sportswriter. At the time. 0:43:56.053 --> 0:43:57.973 She's at Seaton Hall now, I believe, but at the 0:43:57.973 --> 0:44:00.893 time she was at Maris College and she had me 0:44:00.933 --> 0:44:03.173 teach an interview in class for like half a semester. 0:44:03.613 --> 0:44:05.733 But I remember laying on literally laying on her couch 0:44:06.373 --> 0:44:08.093 and kind of just like pouring my heart out towards 0:44:08.133 --> 0:44:10.533 She said, your problem is you are looking at yourself 0:44:10.653 --> 0:44:15.053 through their eyes as they get through ESPN's eyes. And 0:44:15.093 --> 0:44:18.733 that convicted me and I realized that, you know, it 0:44:18.773 --> 0:44:21.133 had nothing to do with what I was or who 0:44:21.213 --> 0:44:24.253 I wasn't, what I could do or what I couldn't do. 0:44:24.773 --> 0:44:26.373 It was great. It was bigger than me. 0:44:26.733 --> 0:44:29.453 And once I got over like that feeling of shame, 0:44:29.973 --> 0:44:32.253 I was able to receive a lot of the flowers 0:44:32.613 --> 0:44:35.413 that people have for me, and, like you said, start 0:44:35.493 --> 0:44:38.813 to be that inspiration that people need from me to 0:44:38.853 --> 0:44:41.653 be and lean into that more again, you know, keeping 0:44:41.653 --> 0:44:44.533 with the scoreboard things like, you know, it's like the. 0:44:44.453 --> 0:44:45.133 Game ain't over. 0:44:45.813 --> 0:44:48.853 Maybe I am trailing, either in my own mind or 0:44:48.933 --> 0:44:52.533 from the world's perspective, you know, according to whatever scoreboard. 0:44:52.613 --> 0:44:55.853 You know, But I'm still in the game. You know, 0:44:56.013 --> 0:44:57.533 I'm still in the game. I'm still in the fighting. 0:44:58.053 --> 0:44:58.293 You know. 0:44:58.413 --> 0:45:00.293 It's still time on the clock. I don't know how 0:45:00.373 --> 0:45:03.373 much time, but I'm getting up every day. There's still 0:45:03.373 --> 0:45:05.453 time on the clock for me to do something with. 0:45:05.453 --> 0:45:07.973 It's still plays to be made, you know. And so 0:45:08.093 --> 0:45:11.573 now the fulfillment comes from every every meeting, every email, 0:45:12.133 --> 0:45:14.333 you know. And and also man, like, I love how 0:45:14.333 --> 0:45:17.053 you talked about that process you felt. It's not like 0:45:17.093 --> 0:45:19.613 you fell in love with the process of just getting 0:45:19.693 --> 0:45:20.533 better every day. 0:45:20.933 --> 0:45:21.133 You know. 0:45:21.453 --> 0:45:23.573 It wasn't the fame. It wasn't the lights, it wasn't 0:45:23.613 --> 0:45:25.533 the money, it wasn't the glory. It was just the 0:45:26.013 --> 0:45:29.573 love of the game, right, the adoration outside aderation. Like 0:45:29.573 --> 0:45:32.613 Donnie talked about earlier, that external validation wasn't doing it 0:45:32.653 --> 0:45:34.133 for you, That wasn't fueling you. 0:45:34.133 --> 0:45:35.613 You had to find your own fuel. 0:45:35.693 --> 0:45:38.413 Like and for me being on camera, being on television, 0:45:38.533 --> 0:45:41.573 like and I never got caught up. 0:45:41.533 --> 0:45:42.573 And people recognized me. 0:45:42.613 --> 0:45:44.733 I never got caught up with what people said because 0:45:44.733 --> 0:45:45.533 I always know it could work. 0:45:45.533 --> 0:45:46.693 It could work both ways. 0:45:46.973 --> 0:45:49.773 But for me now going back to that question of 0:45:49.933 --> 0:45:53.133 how it's fulfilling, now, it's like, man, every email, every meeting, 0:45:53.573 --> 0:45:59.573 every possibility of every project, every discussion, every relationship, all 0:45:59.613 --> 0:46:01.613 that stuff is like, I love it. 0:46:01.733 --> 0:46:02.213 I love it. 0:46:02.253 --> 0:46:05.933 I love the process of building something, of building something 0:46:05.933 --> 0:46:08.813 that I can call my own, of empowering other people 0:46:08.813 --> 0:46:13.053 to tell their stories, of amplifying marginalized voices, of giving 0:46:13.053 --> 0:46:15.173 people the same shot that I needed once upon a 0:46:15.213 --> 0:46:17.813 time to get where I wanted to go. Like, I'm 0:46:17.853 --> 0:46:19.893 in such a better place than I otherwise, what have 0:46:19.973 --> 0:46:20.573 I guess? 0:46:20.773 --> 0:46:22.093 And the story is still not over. 0:46:22.573 --> 0:46:25.333 The comeback quote unquote and put it in air quotes 0:46:25.493 --> 0:46:28.093 is still in process, in progress. 0:46:28.093 --> 0:46:29.733 I beg your pardoner, It's still a process. I'm still 0:46:29.733 --> 0:46:30.573 a work in progress. 0:46:30.773 --> 0:46:32.653 A bad day for the ego is a good day 0:46:32.693 --> 0:46:35.973 for the soul. And I think that process you're in 0:46:36.053 --> 0:46:39.613 now has kind of led you to inflection points. So 0:46:39.693 --> 0:46:41.693 can you tell us a little bit about where you're 0:46:41.693 --> 0:46:44.133 at now? And I'm kind of curious where you came 0:46:44.213 --> 0:46:44.853 up with that name. 0:46:45.173 --> 0:46:48.893 So this would have been twenty and seventeen. 0:46:48.973 --> 0:46:52.533 I was fortunate enough, blessed enough to be admitted to 0:46:53.053 --> 0:46:59.213 the twenty first class of the Aspen Institute's Henry Crown Fellowship. 0:46:59.693 --> 0:47:02.733 One of the I guess the missions of the Fellowship 0:47:02.773 --> 0:47:06.973 is to find professionals who are at inflection points in 0:47:07.013 --> 0:47:10.173 their lives and careers and find people who are using 0:47:10.253 --> 0:47:12.973 their resources and their relationships to help close the gap 0:47:13.413 --> 0:47:15.173 between the world's problems and solutions. 0:47:15.173 --> 0:47:16.693 You can tell I've said that a few times because 0:47:16.693 --> 0:47:17.813 I kind of got to memorize it. 0:47:18.333 --> 0:47:20.733 And so as you know, that phrase inflection point became 0:47:20.773 --> 0:47:26.053 really popular during the twenty twenty presidential election, but you 0:47:26.093 --> 0:47:28.973 know I had it first because I, you know, named 0:47:29.013 --> 0:47:33.293 my company inflection Point Entertainment. Not only was I inspired 0:47:33.373 --> 0:47:36.093 to name my company Inflection Point Entertainment based off of 0:47:36.173 --> 0:47:39.973 me being at a personal inflection point, which nobody puts 0:47:39.973 --> 0:47:41.653 a shelf life on that inflection point. 0:47:41.813 --> 0:47:42.253 You know, I was. 0:47:42.613 --> 0:47:45.053 I was on it, you know, personally and professionally, but 0:47:45.133 --> 0:47:49.013 professionally from like twenty eighteen to I don't know, I'm 0:47:49.013 --> 0:47:50.373 still in it in many respects. 0:47:50.493 --> 0:47:50.693 Right. 0:47:51.253 --> 0:47:55.293 You said You've said previously that the uncomfortable part is 0:47:55.333 --> 0:47:56.573 when the story gets good. 0:47:57.013 --> 0:47:58.373 That's another way of talking. 0:47:58.133 --> 0:48:01.613 About the inflection point, like that point of change, when 0:48:01.653 --> 0:48:04.173 things change or in some cases when shit hits the fan, 0:48:04.733 --> 0:48:06.133 is when the story really gets good. 0:48:06.173 --> 0:48:09.613 And so I'm drawing I like to start stories there. 0:48:10.093 --> 0:48:15.173 I'm drawn to stories of inflection points within individuals, within industries, 0:48:15.213 --> 0:48:19.293 within institutions, and so that was the inspiration for the 0:48:19.333 --> 0:48:19.973 name of the company. 0:48:20.453 --> 0:48:23.573 Yeah, you're an amazing storyteller, There's no doubt about that. 0:48:23.733 --> 0:48:27.173 With everything that you've experienced, just like us, has led 0:48:27.213 --> 0:48:30.733 us to this beautiful moment of connection and having meaningful 0:48:30.773 --> 0:48:34.853 conversations and then creating a platform that's allowing Darren and 0:48:34.893 --> 0:48:37.773 I not only to share our stories, but for other 0:48:37.773 --> 0:48:39.973 people to share their stories and you to share your 0:48:40.053 --> 0:48:43.293 story it's a beautiful moment that we're at. Can you 0:48:43.333 --> 0:48:46.053 talk a little bit about some of the projects other 0:48:46.093 --> 0:48:47.533 than ours that you've undertaken. 0:48:47.693 --> 0:48:49.213 Yeah, Inflection Point Entertainment. 0:48:49.293 --> 0:48:53.293 We are we like to call ourselves genre and platform agnostic, 0:48:53.653 --> 0:48:56.333 which is another way of saying we will tell cool stories, 0:48:56.413 --> 0:48:59.653 no matter the platform, no matter the subject matter. In 0:48:59.693 --> 0:49:03.573 addition to the Inflection Network, the Inflection Podcast Network, we 0:49:03.693 --> 0:49:06.573 have several feet your films in development. We have scripted 0:49:06.653 --> 0:49:09.693 series of development, documentaries and development and like, we just 0:49:09.813 --> 0:49:13.333 like to tell cool stories and like we stay amongst ourselves. 0:49:13.373 --> 0:49:15.933 We like to, you know, do dope shit with cool people. 0:49:17.413 --> 0:49:19.773 And you guys fit the bill, you know what I mean. 0:49:19.813 --> 0:49:23.493 And so and more than anything is like empower and 0:49:23.573 --> 0:49:29.333 amplify and elevate, enlighten and entertain. Those are some of 0:49:29.373 --> 0:49:32.213 our north stars when it comes to the content that 0:49:32.253 --> 0:49:34.533 we're developing in the stories that we're the stories that 0:49:34.533 --> 0:49:35.013 we tell. 0:49:34.893 --> 0:49:38.013 The man, I speak for so many people that are 0:49:38.053 --> 0:49:40.933 listening today when I say that we appreciate the way 0:49:40.973 --> 0:49:44.053 that you responded when she hit the fan and the 0:49:44.053 --> 0:49:46.973 way that you're continuing to respond and write your story. 0:49:47.413 --> 0:49:50.333 It's been it's just been incredible to have this conversation 0:49:50.373 --> 0:49:52.253 with you, Man, I would want to ask you, if 0:49:52.293 --> 0:49:55.293 there's somebody that's been listening, they may be overwhelmed with 0:49:55.333 --> 0:49:57.733 a lot of information and story and perspective today. If 0:49:57.733 --> 0:50:01.173 they could take away one thing today, what would you 0:50:01.253 --> 0:50:01.693 leave them with? 0:50:01.933 --> 0:50:05.213 Keep pushing, just keep pushing, and and I think it 0:50:05.293 --> 0:50:08.253 goes back to something that you said earlier and something 0:50:08.293 --> 0:50:10.013 that I believe in is you know, it's like you 0:50:10.053 --> 0:50:13.333 got to you gotta love the process. You gotta love 0:50:13.413 --> 0:50:16.933 the craft, like you can't love the result. If you 0:50:17.013 --> 0:50:19.533 if you love the results, those come and go. That 0:50:20.053 --> 0:50:23.293 gratification can be delayed. You know, if if you're in 0:50:24.133 --> 0:50:26.933 anything for recognition, if you're in it for the money, 0:50:27.053 --> 0:50:28.453 if you're in it for fame, if you're in it 0:50:28.493 --> 0:50:31.253 for glory, that could all be fleeting, come and go, 0:50:31.293 --> 0:50:33.253 and it could be taken away like that. But your 0:50:33.333 --> 0:50:35.573 love and your passion for what's your call to do, 0:50:35.853 --> 0:50:39.293 loving your passion for your purpose, that's up to you 0:50:39.453 --> 0:50:42.573 to maintain. And so I would say, you know, when 0:50:42.573 --> 0:50:46.053 it when it gets hard, like try to just rediscover 0:50:46.133 --> 0:50:48.773 and get reconnected with why you're doing what you're doing 0:50:48.773 --> 0:50:51.053 in the first place. Because that that's what makes it 0:50:51.093 --> 0:50:54.013 worth it. Like, you know, I just love telling stories, 0:50:54.453 --> 0:50:58.453 regardless of whether whatever platform I had and whether it 0:50:58.533 --> 0:51:01.493 was taken or how it was taken, whatever platform on 0:51:01.693 --> 0:51:04.173 or what'll be on. I's like nobody could, nobody could 0:51:04.173 --> 0:51:06.373 take away my ability and my passion and my love 0:51:06.413 --> 0:51:07.413 for storytelling. 0:51:07.733 --> 0:51:09.573 And so yeah, like just you know. 0:51:09.613 --> 0:51:11.293 Just don't lose your love and have faith, have faith 0:51:11.333 --> 0:51:14.453 in yourself, have faith in the Higher Power, have faith 0:51:14.533 --> 0:51:17.093 or at the universe that you prefer, or whatever God 0:51:17.173 --> 0:51:19.213 you serve. It's like, just understand it. There's a plan 0:51:19.293 --> 0:51:22.253 for your life. But that God has plans, you know, 0:51:22.373 --> 0:51:24.613 that has plans for you and plans to give you 0:51:24.653 --> 0:51:26.933 hope in the future and to prosper you and not 0:51:26.973 --> 0:51:29.653 to harm you, you know. And so that that's what 0:51:29.693 --> 0:51:30.573 I just leaned into. 0:51:30.933 --> 0:51:33.653 And it ain't easy. It definitely ain't easy. But I 0:51:33.733 --> 0:51:35.613 think you said this earlier, Darren, you know. 0:51:35.853 --> 0:51:38.173 But it's worth it in the end, and all that 0:51:38.253 --> 0:51:41.813 all that pain is preparing you, it's molding you for 0:51:41.893 --> 0:51:44.613 something else because I just move differently now, you know. 0:51:44.653 --> 0:51:47.333 I move with a different urgency, with a different purpose, 0:51:47.973 --> 0:51:50.773 with a different peace. And I didn't always have it, 0:51:50.813 --> 0:51:53.773 but I'm grateful for it now. I'm grateful for this 0:51:53.973 --> 0:51:57.413 entire journey and I'm excited. Another phrase I love is 0:51:57.533 --> 0:52:00.173 and that drew me to you, guys, feeling what you're 0:52:00.213 --> 0:52:02.973 doing is like it's knowledge. Somebody told me that knowledge 0:52:03.013 --> 0:52:05.613 is the only thing that you can get away and 0:52:05.653 --> 0:52:09.453 not lose it. And so I love anybody that's in 0:52:09.533 --> 0:52:13.013 the business of just passing all knowledge and passing on wisdom. 0:52:13.093 --> 0:52:13.293 Right. 0:52:13.333 --> 0:52:16.813 And so when I first got to left ESPN and 0:52:16.893 --> 0:52:19.853 joined a startup and that lasted seven weeks, that's another podcast. 0:52:20.533 --> 0:52:23.133 One of the partners at the startup said, you don't 0:52:23.173 --> 0:52:26.853 work for anybody anymore. Decide what you want your days 0:52:26.893 --> 0:52:29.413 to look like. Decide what you want your weeks to 0:52:29.453 --> 0:52:32.733 look like, your months, your years. And that's always stuck 0:52:32.773 --> 0:52:34.973 with me. So even if you're drawing a paycheck from somebody, 0:52:34.973 --> 0:52:36.453 even if you're not an entrepreneur, you don't have your 0:52:36.453 --> 0:52:38.653 own company or whatever, even if you work at nine 0:52:38.693 --> 0:52:41.653 to five, still like I would, I would answer your question, 0:52:41.893 --> 0:52:44.413 Darren lean into that like you decide how you want 0:52:44.453 --> 0:52:46.853 your days to look and your and your and your 0:52:46.853 --> 0:52:48.893 weeks and your months and your years to look It's 0:52:48.933 --> 0:52:52.973 best you can under your circumstances. And again, even if 0:52:53.013 --> 0:52:55.933 you're punching the clock, even if you on somebody else's payroll, 0:52:56.373 --> 0:53:00.373 shift your perspective to I work with them, not for them, 0:53:00.613 --> 0:53:03.653 Like you're working for yourself. You're working for your answering 0:53:03.653 --> 0:53:07.533 to a higher a thought like don't just be miserable 0:53:07.573 --> 0:53:09.933 in a job, like always be walking in your purpose 0:53:09.973 --> 0:53:11.973 and use that job as a means doing it. 0:53:12.133 --> 0:53:13.493 And the doors of the church are open. 0:53:16.213 --> 0:53:19.613 As a fellow grandson of a preacher, I feel like 0:53:19.693 --> 0:53:22.733 anybody listened to this conversation today is going to leave 0:53:22.733 --> 0:53:25.013 with the wealth of knowledge and wisdom. Michael, thank you 0:53:25.013 --> 0:53:27.733 for your time and your testimony. My brother Donnie, I 0:53:27.773 --> 0:53:29.733 love you man. Thank you guys for joining us for 0:53:29.773 --> 0:53:32.533 another episode of come Back Stories. Make sure you reach 0:53:32.573 --> 0:53:34.533 out and tell somebody that we've come back and that 0:53:34.573 --> 0:53:37.333 we're gonna keep coming back. And you can check us 0:53:37.333 --> 0:53:40.373 out wherever you download podcasts, watch us, listen for us 0:53:40.373 --> 0:53:43.613 on the Inflection Point YouTube page, and we're gonna catch 0:53:43.653 --> 0:53:44.533 you guys next week. 0:53:47.853 --> 0:53:51.733 Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. 0:53:52.053 --> 0:53:55.933 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple 0:53:56.013 --> 0:53:58.493 Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.