1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit unimpressed of the discipline and the 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: training level of the Russian forces ass had and as 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: horrific as it is, we want to make sure that 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: we do not see an escalation. Bloomberg Sound on Politics, 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: Policy and perspective from DC's top name. My senses that 7 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: commitity person who were made very high elevated certainly over 8 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: the next year. Mon it's probably first half the year. 9 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: You Republicans want to give Democrat Day victory on getting 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: toup with China on a political basis, the answer is no. 11 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: Floomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio, and 12 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: the focus shifts to China as President Biden prepares for 13 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: his next call with President she has set for tomorrow morning. 14 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 1: Welcome to the fastest hour in politics, as we bring 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: you the latest on the war in Ukraine and the 16 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: pressure campaign to keep China out of Russia's corner, and 17 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: as the China Competes Bill languishes on Capitol Hill. Anyone 18 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,119 Speaker 1: remember the Chip Act. We'll be talking about the economic implications, 19 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: among other issues ahead with Mia McGuinness, the President of 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: the Committee, for a responsible federal budget. The House pass 21 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: legislation a short time ago to strip Russia of its 22 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: favored nation trade status, and we'll talk sanctions with Brian 23 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: O'Toole of the Atlantic Council, former advisor to the Treasury 24 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: Department Sanctions Unit. What is left to sanction? Will ask 25 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: Brian ahead and the panel. Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis 26 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: is with us today along with Jim Kessler, Democratic strategist 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: and co founder of Third Way. President Biden will speak tomorrow. 28 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg understands it will happen in the morning. Washington d 29 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: C time with Chinese President. She's and paying as the 30 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: US leader looks to shore up global pressure on Russia 31 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: to halt its war in Ukraine. All of this comes 32 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: back to the war. Remembering earlier this week, National Security 33 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: Advisor Jake Sullivan met in Rome with his counterpart from China. 34 00:01:55,760 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: They sat down for seven hours, and we still don't 35 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: have a good sense of what was said. Beyond the 36 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: idea of severe consequences. White House has never detailed what 37 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: they are. Press Secretary Jansaki asked repeatedly in the briefing 38 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: room today about what's going to happen on this call. 39 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: The fact that China is not denounced what Russia is 40 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: doing in and and and of itself speaks volumes, and 41 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: it also speaks volumes not only in Russia and Ukraine, 42 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: but around the world. And this call also comes as 43 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: the as Jake Sullivan's meeting earlier this week, as we 44 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: have made clear our deep concerns about China's alignment with 45 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: Russia and the potential implications and consequences of that. So 46 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: the President will also share his assessment of that during 47 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: the call. And this of course comes after the U. S. 48 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: House voted overwhelmingly today how about this to end regular 49 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: trade relations with Russia, a move that would allow the 50 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: US to sharply hike tariffs on whatever goods are still 51 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: coming in and there aren't that many, because we ban 52 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: the oil and gas, would ban the vodka, the caviare 53 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: what else do they make? Again? So it got me 54 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: thinking about this China Competes legislation that's been sitting on 55 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: the shelf for months in the Congress. Senate has a version, 56 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: House has a version. There's still no conference committee. The 57 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: Secretary of Commerce has been calling for this to be 58 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: passed since last fall, maybe earlier Remember this is the 59 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: Chip Act inside this bill that would send tens of 60 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: billions of dollars to create domestic chip manufacturing and as 61 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: we keep hearing, help us compete more prominently with China 62 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: economic implications here just days after this budget was passed. 63 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: Can we get it together on this. That's where we 64 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: begin our conversation today with Maya McGinnis, the president of 65 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. Maya, welcome back. 66 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: It's great to have you do DoD D S and 67 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: rs ever figure this out. If this is the cause 68 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: of our time, will there be a legislative answer to 69 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: competing with China? You know, it's a great question. And 70 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: I am always so gloomy about the terrible partisanship and 71 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: polarization and can Chris, but I actually think we are 72 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: in a moment where there is some tiny renewed amount 73 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: of hope. And it's always many of us have always wondered, 74 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: you know, what kind of an external threat will it 75 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: take to unify our Congress. COVID clearly didn't do it. 76 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: But what we're seeing in Russia and competitions from China, 77 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: both of those are having a different effect. And I 78 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: think that there is a renewed interest in really cooperating 79 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: on dealing with our competitive positions. So um, I would 80 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: rarely call myself an optimist so much of anything these days, 81 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: but in this place, I actually say there is some hope. 82 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: It's hard to tell what's holding this thing up. To 83 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: be honest with you, it seemed like it was a 84 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: bipart as an effort UH in the outset, but then 85 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: the two versions took different courses. Republicans had trouble accepting 86 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: the House version. Are we going to actually see an 87 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: old fashioned conference coming to get this done? Min? I 88 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: think we will. I think the thing that is most 89 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: likely against is just how busy the schedule is with 90 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: absolute emergencies right now, um and at you know, sometimes 91 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: usus a little bit like toddlers and soccer balls, where 92 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: they all run to the one thing that's that's getting attention, 93 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: and that's where leadership is. But I do think there's 94 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: room for this to happen this year. And I don't 95 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: think there's gonna be a lot of important legislation that 96 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: that passes, but I think this is one of the 97 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: areas you could see progress. A big one passed last week, 98 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: and it's interesting because it was the tree that fell 99 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: in the woods. Apparently we talked endlessly about this one 100 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: and a half trillion dollar omnibus. The thing passes and 101 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: everyone thinks it was a Ukraine Aid Bill of Maya, 102 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: which was really a pretty small fraction of that overall number. 103 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: This unlocks money from infrastructure, right, this does a lot 104 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: that actually could help the economy in a troubled moment. 105 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: What's your view on that? Well, the first point that 106 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: I would make is that this was a bill to 107 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: fund the government that came nearly half a year too late, right, 108 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: I mean, this is what what is really astounding is 109 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,559 Speaker 1: that we are often operating without an actual budget in place, 110 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: and that gets almost no attention, whereas that should be 111 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: so appalling that any CEO or small business owner who 112 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: tried to run their business without a by it would 113 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: prompably be fired. Uh me too, the head of a 114 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: nonprofit would be fired. And yet we do that as 115 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: a country. And so the fact that this path midway 116 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: through the year funded the government, it didn't even do 117 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: it in the right way where you go through each 118 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: of the appropriations and really oversee what's working and target 119 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: your resources. This was just again and another kind of 120 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: big on the bus through everything in this one and 121 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: a half trillion dollar budget, and it was about a 122 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: six percent increase, which is huge at normal times and 123 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: leads to about actually half a trillion dollars in additional 124 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: spending over a decade given what we're projecting before. But 125 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: at the same time, that sort of reflects the high 126 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: inflation that we were seeing this year, so it's not 127 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: a huge increase must spending. I don't know what i'd 128 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: say about the effects on the economy because right now 129 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: the big concern from where we sit is both inflation 130 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: that is the result in large part of over over borrowing, 131 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: which we saw at the end of some of the 132 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: COVID relief, and what that effect could be on interest rates, 133 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: because when you're over indebted as we are, small increases 134 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: and interest rate big increases in interest payments. And so 135 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: I think we're in a very very tough situation, kind 136 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: of walking a tight rope of economic conditions. So there's 137 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: the backdrop from Mia McGinnis. Now you add the FED 138 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: meeting yesterday, we got our with the liftoff has happened, 139 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: and it looks like we could be in for another 140 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: half dozen hikes potentially, Maya, you've got w T I 141 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: and of course, my god, the prices that we saw 142 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: earlier this week, we're absolutely wild. Where did we finish 143 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: today a hundred and three dollars for West Texas crude 144 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,679 Speaker 1: Brent has been higher than that. This is a real 145 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: issue for this president. We know it's going to be 146 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: a long term solution, most likely unless the supply chain 147 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: somehow resolves itself in the next couple of weeks. Here, Maya, 148 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: are you concerned that the FED hiking, along with the 149 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: inflation that we're seeing, the slowing of the economy, ends 150 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: us in a recession in the end of this year 151 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: at the beginning of next year. I think one would 152 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: be foolish not to take that as a serious threat 153 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,239 Speaker 1: and have a real consideration. And I think we again, 154 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: we're kind of in a very difficult corner because we 155 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: have this huge amount of inflation, which which has been 156 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: people have been slow to catch on how permanent it 157 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: was and how high it could be. But also because 158 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: we have this massive debt at thirty trillion total twenty 159 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: three trillion debt to the public um. Every increase in 160 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: interest rates leads to the higher interest payments, which contributes 161 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: to a lot of pressure on our budget and possibly 162 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: pushing us back in our session. So what's more important 163 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: fighting inflation or keeping the economy growing? I mean they're both. 164 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: They're both important. Obviously, they neither one is the one 165 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: that you want to to not be able to do. 166 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: And I guess what's frustrating is we we put ourselves 167 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: in the situation that got us caught between these two 168 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: in large part because of our reckless borrowing and past, 169 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: and now that makes fixing it more the difficult, more 170 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: to much more difficult. I think when we have two 171 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: important goals like both of those, fighting in flesh and 172 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: not pushing yourself back in recession, what you will see 173 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: is the FED have to kind of land somewhere in 174 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: the middle of what you would do to fight either 175 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: on its own. And so that's probably very compromise and 176 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: it's not good enough to do a full job on 177 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: either end. But we don't have any good choices. But 178 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: I think the takeaway is as much attention as monetary 179 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: policymakers are getting right now, it's the fiscal policymakers that 180 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: put us in such a difficult situation, leaving the FED 181 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: with very few ideal choices. We're hearing about gas prices 182 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 1: every day in Washington. This is one of the real 183 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: issues that Republicans have used Dingley administration and Democrats at 184 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: large as we had for the mid term elections. Is 185 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: this gas tax holiday idea going anywhere? I don't think so, 186 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: and I don't think it should. I don't think that 187 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: that's something. I don't think it will make a real 188 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: difference at the price at the pumps, and so I 189 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: don't think we will have a lasting effect. I think 190 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,599 Speaker 1: will be incredibly costly. And if you could where we 191 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 1: are with inflation coming from high levels of demand, lower 192 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: levels of supply, and external shocks, there's actually very little 193 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: that you can do in terms of targeted relief that 194 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: way that's going to have a sustained effect on creating relief. 195 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: UM And the hard part is that fighting inflation means 196 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: you don't want you want to diminish demand, and the 197 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: ways that you do that can be painful for consumers. 198 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: There's no getting out of this pain free, endless, and 199 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: in Washington, we are constantly looking for free lunch, magic 200 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: thinking scenarios where you can have everything and it doesn't 201 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: cost anything. UM And this is one of those moments 202 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: where the truth will emerge that it's not going to 203 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: be painless unfortunately, kind of like releasing barrels from the 204 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: strategic reserve, quick sugar high and then you're right back 205 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: where you were. Yeah, not a sustainable policy. It may 206 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: be smart to think about for you know, temporary moments, 207 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: but you have to put in terms of perspective, which 208 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 1: is what we're gonna need is real structural changes, rebalancing 209 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: in the economy, and they're not going to come easy. Aguinness, 210 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 1: we talked about the China Competes bill, you suggest that 211 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: it might be one of the only things that could 212 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: pass this year. Is there anything else from the economic 213 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 1: agenda that came from this White House? My goodness, were 214 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: not very far past the State of the Union here 215 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: when we got the Chicken the kitchen sink list from 216 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: Joe Biden about all of these ideas, from paid leave 217 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: to the expanded child tax credit. Does any of this 218 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: see the light of day in a midsterm election year. Yeah, 219 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: I don't think that's the big huge spending elements, and 220 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 1: remember they were for two trillion dollars or if you 221 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: got rid of gimmicks closer to double that in terms 222 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: of spending, which is a massive amount. I don't think 223 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: that those have any momentum at all. I think what 224 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: Senator Mansion put out there was really interesting, which was 225 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: to flip this approach on its head and look at 226 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: whether there's a way you could use the revenue that 227 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: were agreed to. There's about two trillion dollars of revenue 228 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: in the House bill, and take that and split it 229 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: between using it for deficit reduction and climate and a 230 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: few of the other policies. But the focus on climate 231 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: that has a real advantage of being good for the 232 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: inflationary such wan, good for the fiscal situation, and still 233 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: accomplishing a lot of spending at a time when there's 234 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,719 Speaker 1: not a lot of room in the budget. Miam McGuinness 235 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. We always learned something 236 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: when we talk to MA, and we appreciate your insights. 237 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: We'll assemble the panel next. Rick Davis and Jim Castler 238 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: on the way, this is Bloomberg. My grandfather, abro Ambrose 239 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: Finnegan used to say to me this. He'd say, Joey, 240 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: if you're lucky enough to be Irish, and you're lucky 241 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: enough like an exquisite landscape and view with forty shades 242 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: of green like Irish shoulder bread, and the endless cuts 243 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: of tea and Irish step dancing and the presence of 244 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 1: guinness and jamison are only and Irish. Jig away, you 245 00:12:50,920 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: must be father from am about to send hi. Well, 246 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: I just want you to know I may be Irish, 247 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: but I'm not stupid. I married dominic Jiakoppa's daughter, right. 248 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: We are particularly mindful of the exile people of the 249 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: Ukraine who are in need of hope and peace, healing 250 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: and say passage. But I forget to say Happy St. 251 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: Patrick's Day. I think I did, but I am wearing 252 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: a green tie today. Those were sounds from earlier on 253 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: Capitol Hill, where President Biden spoke at a St. Patrick's 254 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: Day luncheon. Even though the tea shot didn't make it. 255 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,719 Speaker 1: You probably heard by now the Irish Prime Minister is 256 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: in isolation at Blair House, just across the street from 257 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: the White House, after he tested positive for COVID last 258 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: night at the bail on an event. They were in 259 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: the middle of a dinner, so we had to join 260 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: President Biden this morning by zoom. But thank you very much. Indeed, President, 261 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: and last year we messed virtually across the Atlantic. This 262 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: year we're meeting virtually across the road. It could have 263 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 1: shouted up the windows at each other. Actually, thanks for 264 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: joining us on Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. 265 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: It's time to assemble the panel. After speaking with Mia 266 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: mc ginness, we bring in Bloomberg Politics contributor Republican strategist 267 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, along with Jim Kessler, Democratic Strategists, co founder 268 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: a Third Way, former legislative policy director for Senator Chuck Schumer. 269 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: You guys spent a little bit of time together on 270 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: Capitol Hill, so we're kind of putting the band back together. Rick, 271 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: your thoughts on the phone call tomorrow with China. This 272 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: is the first time that the President's Biden and she 273 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: have spoken or will be since November. And a very 274 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: different world that we're living in here following the meeting 275 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: earlier this week in Rome. How how difficult is this 276 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: conversation going to be about Russia's war in Ukraine. Yeah, 277 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: let's just say this is not a rudeine call. Jake 278 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: Sullivan had a seven hour session with his counterpart and 279 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: we got virtually no readout whatsoever. So, Uh, the chips 280 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: are all in the middle of the table on this one. 281 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: China is as you mentioned earlier in the show, they 282 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: haven't announced Russia. They haven't They've got a lot of 283 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: alignment with them right now that they're the biggest question 284 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: in the world because they are going to be forced 285 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: by President Biden to probably choose for the relationship with 286 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: Russia or the United States. Do you want your largest 287 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: trading partner to be in good shape with you or 288 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: do you want someone who actually doesn't matter whatsoever do 289 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: your economy, uh, to ruin your image around the globe. 290 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: And I think this is this is one where Biden's 291 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: gonna earn his pay on this phone call, Jim. I 292 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: don't know if they're gonna be talking for seven hours, 293 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: like like their lieutenants were earlier this week. Uh, they're 294 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: diplomatic lieutenants, that is. But I just I wonder where 295 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: what you see here as the motivator for China. If 296 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: it comes down to money, it's gonna be a pretty simple, 297 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: uh question for President She know. Yeah, Look, I I 298 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: saw two things this week that we're very interesting and 299 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: in a little bit sort of diametrically opposed. So there 300 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: was an op ed in the Washington Post by the 301 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: Chinese ambassador to the United States, Chin Gong, and basically 302 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: in that piece, you know, you could you could look 303 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: at that and think like it was sort of benign 304 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: in fact, maybe even leaning a little bit towards Ukraine. 305 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: Then if you look at what is in Chinese language 306 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: newspapers that people in China sea, so it's, you know, 307 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: the mouthpiece of the government for Chinese people, there's generally 308 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: not a ton about Ukraine in there, but lately there's 309 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: been a little bit more, and it's leaning more in 310 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: the direction of Russia. So the domestic consumption is preparing 311 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: a little bit more for signing on the Russian side 312 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: that what we just saw in the Washington Post was 313 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: siding a little bit more on the Ukraine America side. 314 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: But you know, I mean, this is a big decision 315 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: for China beg because they didn't expect to be in 316 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: this position right now. I'm sure they didn't. Uh Rick, 317 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: we talked with Maya about the China Competes bill. I 318 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: think it's had five different names since it was actually 319 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 1: called that. But the chip Ack this was supposed to 320 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: be a major priority at the end of last year, 321 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: it seemed like Democrats and Republicans were together on it 322 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: until a certain point the things broke down. Is it 323 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 1: going anywhere? Yeah? I think I would agree with what 324 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: Maya said, which is, if there's something that's going to 325 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: get done this year in a bipartisan fashion, it isn't 326 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: related specifically to the war in Ukraine. I think this 327 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: is it, uh, for a lot of different reasons. Everybody's 328 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: for doing something around China competitiveness. Maybe the hardest thing 329 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: is to name what the new bill is going to be, 330 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: because they've been all around the park on this one. 331 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: But when you've got fifty billion dollars out there to 332 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: help spur chip development here in the United States and 333 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: you still have supply chain problems this late into COVID, UH, 334 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: you've got to act. I mean, this will be a 335 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: pox on all their houses if they go home and 336 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: try to run for re election and don't have something 337 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: to show for this after all the talk. Jim, what 338 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: is your former boss, Senator Chuck Schumer do to get 339 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: this in conference committee, get it to the floor. Well, 340 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: first of all, if my mc ginnis and Rick Davis 341 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: both think it's going to pass There two of the 342 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: smartest minds in Washington. I'm not gonna argue it's gonna pass. 343 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: Sound we have three yes. The the issue on this bill, 344 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: So there's between Democrats and Republicans. There's a lot of 345 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: violent agreement on the Competes Bill formerly the Endless Frontiers Act, 346 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: formerly some other name, but on how you the legislative language, 347 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: there is a lot of wrangling and there's a lot 348 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: of differences not between Democrats and Republicans, but between the 349 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: House and the Senate. And what really has to happen 350 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: is the the House, which feels like it's been rolled 351 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: on almost every other MANSI piece of legislation. Jim, I'm sorry, 352 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: we're out of time, but we're going to reassemble the panel. 353 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: Let you finish the thought, Jim Castler and Rick Davis. 354 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: Russia used on its way to joining a very exclusive 355 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: club after the House pass legislation to what's known as 356 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: most Favored Nation trade status that would put head Assuming 357 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: the Senate passes this, it's expected to put it in 358 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,479 Speaker 1: the category with North Korea and Cuba. And as we 359 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,959 Speaker 1: learn more about sanctions, we turned to Brian O'Toole, senior 360 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: fellow at the Atlantic Council's Geoeconomic Center, former advisor to 361 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: the Treasury Department Sanctions Unit, with more calls on Capitol 362 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: Hill for additional sanctions and a promise for more sanctions 363 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: from President Biden just as recently as yesterday, Brian, welcome 364 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: back to Bloomberg. Thanks for having me. So, the House 365 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: has passed this legislation to end normal trade relations with Russia, 366 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 1: what we used to call most Favored Nation status. Uh. 367 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: I know that means significantly higher tariffs. But we've already 368 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: banned a lot of Russian imports. Brian. What impact then 369 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: will this actually have on Moscow? Yeah? My understanding is 370 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: the impact is relatively limited here. I think it gives 371 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,959 Speaker 1: the ability to impose significantly higher tariffs UM. But they've already, 372 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: you know, the Biden administration and has already shut off 373 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: oil imports UM, which are kind of the biggest ticket 374 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: item UM, as well as non industrial diamonds and fish 375 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: and seafood, which I think is basically code for CAVIA. 376 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: So what I mean, what else do we buy from them? Um? 377 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not sure there's that much else it's UM. 378 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: So this sounds kind of like a symbolic gesture by 379 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: the Congress. I think, I think to a certain degree 380 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: it is I think, you know, in my understanding too 381 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: of the situation is that what we do import from Russia. 382 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: Um there isn't as much of a significant differentiation and 383 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: the terriff rights between m F and the most favor 384 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: Nation status and the non MFN status. UM So there's 385 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: there's limited impact there. But it does give the ability 386 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: to impose higher cariffs if they want. Um. I suspect 387 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: that probably isn't going to be a lot of value 388 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: in doing so. And you know, subject talent at w 389 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: t O and all of those kinds of things may 390 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: may make it politically difficult for them. Um So it 391 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: may be, as you say, kind of more symbolic than 392 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: anything else. But I think, as my my colleague Danfried 393 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: has said before, symbols matter sometimes. Well, that's fine, And 394 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: I realized that Congress had to codify with the President 395 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 1: had essentially proposed last week. So we've got it here. 396 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: Two forty two, make that four four to eight is 397 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: the vote. But I keep asking this question, Brian, because 398 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: largely Republicans are criticizing President Biden for not doing enough, 399 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: not early enough when it comes to sanctions, But what 400 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: else is left to sanction other than seizing more yachts 401 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: from oligarchs? A whole lot actually, um. If you think 402 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: about this on a continuum of like zero to um, 403 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: the kind of sanctions payan ometer, if you will, The 404 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: sanctions on russiare somewhere around ron is about ninety by 405 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: comparisons sake, Right, the impact of the Russia sanctions on 406 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 1: a like dollar level is higher because they're just starting 407 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: from an astronomically higher place than Iran economically. But but 408 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: there's still quite a lot left. Right. They could sanction 409 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: in the stock markets, they could sanction other banks, they 410 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: could sanction individuals and companies. Um, they could fully ban 411 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: um and go for secondary sanctions on oil trading and 412 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: put you know, the kind of ultimate piece of this 413 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 1: is a full financial embargo on Russia. And they're they're 414 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: not there. They're not necessarily that close, given that there 415 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: is still a lot of private enterprise in Russia that 416 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 1: is allowed to transact to the US, even if some 417 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: of the major conduits have been cut off. So if 418 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: you are still at Treasury and in dealing with sanctions, 419 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: what would your advice be to the administration is there 420 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: a reason to be holding back on the I mean, look, 421 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: the the idea of using sanctions as a deterrent falls 422 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: in line with all over all other kind of uses 423 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: as a deterrent effect in some respects or a a 424 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: kind of tit for tat escalation letter. And they they do, 425 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: you know, they do need options if Russia abstainty to 426 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: a certain extent right, So I would imagine so of 427 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,959 Speaker 1: these are held in reserve knowing that they might have 428 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: to respond to other Russian provocations beyond the horrible, horrible 429 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: status quo tell us about secondary sanctions. This is something 430 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: that's being proposed again largely by Republicans on the hill. 431 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: How would they be implemented when you start introducing other countries? 432 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: How much more difficult is that to actually draw the 433 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: document and get it past They've they've already done it. Um. 434 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: So they did it in Capsta back in when they 435 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: were trying to prevent Donald Trump from lifting sanctions on 436 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: Russia unilaterally. It's a matter of kind of implementing an 437 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,239 Speaker 1: enforcement as much as anything else, um. And Congress is 438 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: fond of kind of reinforcing stuff that they've done in 439 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: the past with more current legislation they could do with 440 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: some clarification, so we might refine that with another piece 441 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: of legislation. Is any of this making a difference? Are 442 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: there any signs that Vladimir Putin's behavior has shifted with 443 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: with each layer of sanctions? So this is this is 444 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: where the expectation of what the impact is going to 445 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: get you, I think diverges from from person to person 446 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: sanctions in my view, and as other sub said, sanctions 447 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: to top tanks. Right, so that not necessarily going to 448 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: halt the Russian army in Ukraine. Um. President Biden said 449 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: this initially, that sanctions are meant to isolate an ostracized 450 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: president Putin and the entirety of the Russian economy essentially 451 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: at this point, Um, that's what the design is for. 452 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: That's a longer term effect, perhaps than than the war 453 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: may last in Ukraine. And so that that is something 454 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: where there is certainly effect, There is certainly ostraization. And 455 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: you know, Uzebekistan is now saying that this this invasion 456 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: should stop and that they're not going to recognize these 457 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: two breakaway republics in Ukraine. So you know they are 458 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: rallying the world around it. Now, what does that mean 459 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,719 Speaker 1: for the people in the ground in Ukraine is a 460 00:24:52,760 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: different question. Um Some some tentatively very tendant of le 461 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,959 Speaker 1: promising um kind of returns from some of these peace talks. 462 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: Zelenski has seemed to suggest that they may be going 463 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: in the right direction and they're starting to become more constructive. 464 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: Sanctions certainly play a role in making the Russians feel 465 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: like they need to be constructive to the extent that 466 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: they are be that they are being constructive. But as 467 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: an expert on sanctions, Brian can you can you say 468 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: that this will have a greater impact on the people 469 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: as usual than it would on the positions of power 470 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: than it would on Vladimir Putin. I think the the 471 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: impact to Russian consumers will be sharper, perhaps than it 472 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: will be on Vladimir Putin in his centers of power, 473 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: at least in the immediate term. That that may change 474 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: over the longer term of Putin is unable to sustain 475 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: the colected cliantic regime that he sits on top because 476 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: they just don't have enough money to do it. Ryan O'Toole, 477 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council's Geoeconomic Center, former advisor 478 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: to the Treasury Department Sanctions units. We appreciate at your 479 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: time with us once again. On Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. 480 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. We're 481 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: hearing words like planising and purification. Today from Moscow, Vladimir 482 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: Houghton saying that the Russian people will always be able 483 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: to tell the patriots from the scum and traders that 484 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: spit them out. He said, like a midge that accidentally 485 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: flew into their mouths. He's not talking about Americans, He's 486 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: talking about Russians. I'm convinced. He says, this is a 487 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: national address. This natural and necessary self cleansing of society 488 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: will only strengthen our country solidarity, cohesion, and readiness to 489 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: meet any challenge. This thing is going off the rails. 490 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: As we reassemble the panel, Rick Davis is with us, 491 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: of course Bloomberg Politics contributor and spending time as well 492 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: today with Jim Kessler, the co founder of Third Way. 493 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: This is the Vladimir Putin. We've talked about a lot 494 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: here um. This type of language is shocking to most people. 495 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: Apparently they were not even trying to hide what's going 496 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: on here with the messaging we're hearing, but politically speaking, 497 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: at a certain point, as I read now some fifteen 498 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: thousand Russians have been detained for opposing the war, for 499 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: holding protests and so forth. Does it end up being 500 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: the people of Russia, who are also suffering through these 501 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: sanctions be the ones that end this, that that turn 502 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: on Vladimir Putin? Joe, I think you just nailed it. 503 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: This is the change that Putin is worried about not 504 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: taking over Ukraine or losing a battle for an airport. 505 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: It's what goes on at home. And that's why he's 506 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: got twice as many secret police on the streets, uh 507 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: than he does have troops in Ukraine trying to quell 508 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 1: the disturbances that are cropping up in virtually every city 509 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: in Russia. So look, I mean, this is the thug 510 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: we know. And now the people of Russia realized that 511 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: he's more day interests and they thought, and I think 512 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: we only are beginning to see the first stages of 513 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: domestic unrest, which, as you say, is probably the only 514 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: thing that can stop this war. How big does that 515 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: need to get, Jim, As I mentioned, fifteen thousand anti 516 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: war protesters have already been detained. Is that the way 517 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: this ends with an uprising in Russia? I believe it's 518 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: the way some previous Russian governments have ended before. I think, 519 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that I find interesting 520 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: about what Kutin said, besides the horror of it, Number one, 521 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: that doesn't sound like someone who's winning. That sounds like 522 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: someone who's losing. And number two is there is a 523 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: narrative that both Russia and China have echoed, which is 524 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: that the century is one where democracies are going to fail, 525 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: that that an autocracy model is really the way to succeed. 526 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: And what we're seeing right now is the weaknesses in 527 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: that autocracy model, because within a month Putin went from 528 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: being a strong man to someone who seems you very afraid. Yeah, 529 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: how do we fan the flames there? Rick or the 530 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: sanctions the way this happens. I know that some look 531 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: at that as sort of collateral damage, but is that 532 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: actually the point to essentially get them to to feel 533 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: the pain enough that they say, we got to get 534 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: rid of this guy. Yeah. We've heard from others on 535 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: the impact of some of these sanctions are tougher on 536 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: the people of Russia than they are on Vladimir Putin directly. 537 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: Obviously some are targeted just of Vladimir Putin, but these 538 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: sanctions are having an impact on the population, and they 539 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: are not going to blame the United States for those sanctions. 540 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: They're gonna blame Vladimir Putin for having those sanctions put 541 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: on them because of his solitary decision to to enter 542 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: a war with the Ukraine. Uh and and I think 543 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: that is the key propaganda tool that the West needs 544 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: to use to make sure everybody in Russia understands this 545 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: is on Putin's head. We don't want to do this, 546 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: but this is the only thing that we think can 547 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: act effect change with Vladimir Putin. Jim. If we're talking 548 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: about secondary sanctions or or further sanctions on Russia itself, 549 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: as we just discussed a little bit ago with Brian O'Toole, 550 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: does that need to be a legislative product or is 551 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: this something that the president should be doing through executive 552 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: orders through the Treasury Department. What role does Congress need 553 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: to play in that. Usually this is done through the 554 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: executive branch, and the Congress a lot of times echoes 555 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: in and and puts it into law which makes sanctions 556 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: harder to undo, so that so they have a greater 557 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: impact on it. Um. You know, they're probably holding some 558 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: sanctions in reserve to have more chips to throw into 559 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: the pot here. I think probably the most important thing 560 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: is how do you break the news barriers so that 561 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: ordinary Russians are really hearing what's going on. And that's 562 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: probably the thing that needs to happen. The demands, though Jim, 563 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: are coming from Capitol Hill. In many cases it's Republican lawmakers. 564 00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: Can they continue to push the administration through legislation? Well, 565 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: you know, some of these same Republican lawmakers were really 566 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: not all that interested in Ukraine, you know, not too 567 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: long ago. So you know, it's good that they've they've 568 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: come on board, but there was quite a few who 569 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: really were arguably on the other side. This is something 570 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: that Biden can say internationally to Shi Jim Ping. He 571 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: can say it in back channels to Vladimi Prutin, which is, 572 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: I will not be able to stop um public opinion 573 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: in the United States and Congress from imposing either greater 574 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: sanctions and more military activity. So I think it's something 575 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: that Biden can use, you know, as he is trying 576 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: to strangle Putin. How about it, Rick Davis legislative sanctions. 577 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: We heard from Kevin McCarthy and others yesterday referring to 578 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: the fact that, you know, what we've been pushing this 579 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: White House wouldn't have happened unless Nancy Pelosi, for instance, 580 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: forget Republican Democratic, was Nancy Pelosi who really dropped a 581 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: gauntlet on banning Russian gas and oil? Correct? Do we 582 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: see another round come from that end of Pennsylvania Avenue 583 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: or is it going to be from the Treasury again? Yeah? 584 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: I think that it's it's gonna come from both sides. 585 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I think uh Jim reflects. I think the 586 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: thinking a lot of Democrats have, which is to use 587 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: the public support for this war, which is really amazingly 588 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: high as a whipping boy for uh having these sanctions. 589 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: I hope that that the President, when he talks to 590 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: Cheat tomorrow, says, I am taking a leadership role. I'm 591 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: directing the the the campaign against Russia from here. I 592 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: don't need the American people to be on my side. 593 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: They're never gonna understand what a secondary sanction is. But 594 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you right now, my my comrade that 595 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: if if we if we see the one single drone 596 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: go from China to Russia, there will be secondary sanctions, 597 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: which means I will sanction anyone doing business with China banks. Uh, 598 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: and that will raise a lot of the hackles in 599 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: Beijing and get them thinking about this. You know, co 600 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: relationship they have with the guy who spits flies out 601 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: of his man. How important is this call to move 602 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: on the ball here? Uh? Tomorrow? Is there a chance 603 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 1: that the president can convince Beijing to actually act as 604 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: a mediator. Maybe President she makes a phone call, as 605 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: Rick Davis said to Vladimir butin to say listen, I 606 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: can't afford this. You gotta get this done. That's possible. 607 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: And you know Rick pointed out in the earlier segment, 608 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: there was a seven hour meeting between principles, high level 609 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: principles in China in the United States, and there wasn't 610 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: a single read out of that meeting. I mean, that's 611 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: how well. There was a read out, but it was 612 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: about a sentence long. They won't tell us what happened 613 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: in that meeting. It was a fake readout. So for 614 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: Choina of being in a mediation role outside of Asia 615 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: is a very new thing. It is something that they 616 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: are not practiced at. But if China wants to be 617 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: a leader on the world stage commensurate to its economic power, 618 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: right now, this is the time for them to weigh 619 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: in and say to Gladimie Putin, this is not working. 620 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: Find a graceful way to get out of there. Are 621 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: we gonna get a read out on this call, Rick, 622 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: I guarantee you Joe Biden, who is not used to secrecy, 623 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: will at least make his comments known. And if I 624 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: know the Chinese, they'll probably have a press release out 625 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: long before we get an indication from the White House. 626 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: Everyone's gonna want to position this. I firmly believe that 627 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: the Chinese want to play a constructive role, and and 628 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: I think they wanted to play a constructive role for 629 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: Bladimir Putin when he left the Olympics. But I think 630 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: he's put him in such an awkward Spotford that they 631 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: can't come out of this meeting looking like they're taking sides. 632 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: They don't have to take our side, but they can't 633 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: take his either. How about when it comes to China 634 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: buying Russian oil? Rick, you know, look, I mean, Russia 635 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,760 Speaker 1: is gonna find a buyer for their oil, right and 636 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: and and and it's okay from my perspective. Uh, if 637 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: if if, if China buys what they've been buying, if 638 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: and it takes advantage of the glut now that exists 639 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: for Russian oil takes and they think they can get 640 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: a discount which everyone is getting, Uh, then I think 641 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: with those those clamps have got to go on. The 642 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: Biden administration has to say, look, we we took the 643 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: position and buying Russian oil was like given money to 644 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: the war machine. If that's what we're doing, then what 645 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: is China doing? Could that be done codified in legislative form? Jim? 646 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: Or is that Does that need to come from the administration? No, 647 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,439 Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything. I don't know if it's 648 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: possible to really cudify anything that is going to be 649 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 1: punishing China right now. Um, the best strategy would be 650 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: to try and tondrol China tech play a holistic role 651 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: as possible on this two front sanctions and a lot 652 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: of money on the line. Jim Kessler, Thank you Rick Davis. 653 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: As always our panel for today on sound On fascinating 654 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: insights as ever, and we'll do this again to or 655 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: after the call. Make sure you join us on Friday 656 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: Marches Women's History Month, and we want to get today's 657 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: installments from Niday on this day in Women's History. In 658 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, Golden Mayor is elected as Israel's first 659 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: female prime minister. She was only the country's fourth prime minister. 660 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: Mayor began her career as a Zionist labor organizer. Later on, 661 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 1: she held several positions within the Israeli government, including Minister 662 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: of Foreign Affairs and Minister of Labor, and upon the 663 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,959 Speaker 1: sudden death of Prime Minister Levi Eshkal in nineteen sixty nine, 664 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: Mayor was chosen as his successor. During her career, Mayor 665 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: gained a reputation as a savvy diplomat. She saw the 666 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: country through the yam kip Or War in nineteen seventy three, 667 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: after Syria and Egypt launched a surprise attack on Israel, 668 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 1: and partially due to her ailing health end age, Mayor 669 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: resigned in October nineteen seventy four. That's today in Women's History. 670 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: I'm Nida Young Bloomberg Radio. We need to thank you, 671 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 1: and you just got to the end of the fastest 672 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: hour in politics. It goes by awfully quick, and we've 673 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: got one more this week. Keeping our ear out for 674 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: news on the call tomorrow see them. This is Bloomberg