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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the

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Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter, and now your host Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyan, and today in the show, I'm joined by

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Speaker 1: Tony Peterson to explore if, why, and how a deep

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Speaker 1: dive into white tail science can help you become a

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Speaker 1: better deer hunter, and we're kicking off a brand new

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Speaker 1: month long series on this very topic. All Right, welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by

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Speaker 1: First Light In. Today, we're kicking off a brand new

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Speaker 1: month long series about the science of white tails. In

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Speaker 1: spirit in that series is the one and only Tony Peterson,

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Speaker 1: who's hearing me today. Tony, I'm glad to have you

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Speaker 1: back here. Uh, how are you feeling? I hear you've

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Speaker 1: been going through a rough spell man. Thanks for having me. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I had avoided COVID really, really well until last week

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Speaker 1: and it was a it was an experience. Buddy. Do

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Speaker 1: you feel like you're back to normal now or are

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Speaker 1: you a shell of the former self still? I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's how I described myself, I wouldn't. I

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Speaker 1: also wouldn't say normal. It's it's weird. Man, you know

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Speaker 1: how it hits people differently. And I really had a

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Speaker 1: couple of days where I felt pretty bad, just kind

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Speaker 1: of achey and you know, just not myself. But those

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Speaker 1: those went pretty quickly and I started to feel better.

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Speaker 1: But man, doing some stuff like trying to write or editing.

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Speaker 1: Editing is brutal, like having to think about words. It

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Speaker 1: gives I get like, you know, forty five minutes, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm toast. My brain is just mush. And then working out,

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Speaker 1: I got a little cocky and thought, you know, since

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Speaker 1: I feel pretty good, I could go, you know, go

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Speaker 1: to the gym and pick up some heavy stuff. And

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Speaker 1: it did not take me very long to figure out

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Speaker 1: that that my stamina was just not there. Yikes. I

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Speaker 1: do not have nearly as good of an excuse as you,

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Speaker 1: but I will stay. Over the last week, I have

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Speaker 1: felt like I can't focus on anything. My brain's a fog,

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Speaker 1: I'm fatigued, I'm I'm a shell of my former self. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And And the reason for that, Tony, is that, for

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Speaker 1: the first time as a parent of two children, I

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Speaker 1: had to do dad duty on my own for three

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Speaker 1: and a half days. And it left you. Uh, it

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Speaker 1: left you in rough shape. Buddy, I'm a husk. I'm

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Speaker 1: just a husk, a dried husk of a man. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I can totally sympathize my wife so much

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Speaker 1: more now when I'm on for two weeks at a

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Speaker 1: time hunting and she keeps the ship afloat. I just

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Speaker 1: had to do it for three and a half days,

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Speaker 1: and I it's no, it's no small tasks. I guess

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Speaker 1: what I'm getting now. Yeah, it's uh, it's tough, man.

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Speaker 1: And I know there's probably not a woman that listens

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Speaker 1: to this podcast, so it doesn't matter anyway. But they

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Speaker 1: are amazing at keeping the whole thing together. And we

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Speaker 1: are just like placeholder idiots that come and go sometimes,

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Speaker 1: I think, oh for sure. And and the women that

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Speaker 1: are listening to think that we're idiots for complaining about this.

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Speaker 1: It's they're definitely not impressed with us. But but yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was an adventure, my my go to

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Speaker 1: kind of move for getting through it. Like I had

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Speaker 1: to just kind of get through the regular work day

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Speaker 1: as normal. I had to work as best as I

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Speaker 1: could and try to keep the kids entertained. But my

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Speaker 1: patients would just be so thin by the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, I couldn't handle like, you know, playing, you

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Speaker 1: know whatever, like the kids stuff they want to do.

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Speaker 1: So I would just pack boys up in the truck

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Speaker 1: and we would drive off to some random spot in

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Speaker 1: the National forest and we would just like dump them

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Speaker 1: out and we just let them explore, climb rocks, climb hills,

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Speaker 1: playing creeks, playing the lakes. It was just like three

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Speaker 1: days of nature babysitting, which was very very good for

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Speaker 1: those those evening hours when I need a little mental break. Um.

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Speaker 1: So that was that was my epiphany, I guess, was

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Speaker 1: that I like Mother Nature now even more so because

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Speaker 1: I realized that she's a great babysitter and that was needed. Yeah. Man,

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Speaker 1: it's it's good if you're if you got to do

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Speaker 1: something like that, this is the time of year to

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Speaker 1: do it. If you're if you're like, man, I really

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Speaker 1: need Mother Nature's help a little bit. You don't really

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Speaker 1: want that to happen in like January. Yeah, for sure,

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Speaker 1: we got. We got relatively lucky with decent weather and

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Speaker 1: it was it was fun. I mean, the boys are

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Speaker 1: pretty good and Mom's back now, and I made the

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Speaker 1: mistake this is this is a digression, but I made

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Speaker 1: the mistake of planning to pick my wife up at

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Speaker 1: three o'clock in the afternoon when she got to pick

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Speaker 1: her up at the airport and immediately take her to

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Speaker 1: a campground where I'd set up a tent and stuff,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, let's just start camping right away,

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Speaker 1: so you'll come back from your work trip. I later

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Speaker 1: found out she had to wake up at two am

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Speaker 1: that day to catch her flight, and so she had

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Speaker 1: woken up at two am and been on airplanes all day.

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Speaker 1: And then I picked her up and was like, let's

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Speaker 1: go camping. And uh. She was not necessarily loving that

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Speaker 1: as far as uh diving right back into things, but

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Speaker 1: we made the best of it was still fun, but

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Speaker 1: it took a moment. Did she go camping? Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: went camping. Um, but she was very, very tired, and

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Speaker 1: she was also not impressed with my lack of packing.

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Speaker 1: I I did like a halfway pack, So in the

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Speaker 1: morning I packed like the camping stuff and then drove

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Speaker 1: the kids to the campground and got a site because

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Speaker 1: I was I was worried about not being able to

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Speaker 1: get a site on a Saturday morning, Right, that's pretty

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Speaker 1: tough to do. So I raced to go get a site.

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Speaker 1: We set up the tent and chairs and sleeping bags

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and then I thought, after we

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Speaker 1: pick up Mom, we'll just stop by the house and

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Speaker 1: have like food and clothes. It would be really quick,

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Speaker 1: that'll be it. But it ended up being like an

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Speaker 1: hour worth of all the million different things that dead

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Speaker 1: did not think of that we needed to pack. And

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Speaker 1: so that was the first mistake was was Kylie realizing

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Speaker 1: just how illy prepared I had us. But we made

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Speaker 1: it through, had a good time. The kids, Uh, kids

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Speaker 1: had fun. Did you feel so you know how it

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Speaker 1: is like the first hunt of the year, You have

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Speaker 1: that that feeling like you're forgetting everything, and then you

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Speaker 1: get into a groove and you're pretty good for most

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Speaker 1: of the season and then you get kind of that

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Speaker 1: rut burnout where you just start forgetting stuff again. Did

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Speaker 1: it Did it bring back echoes of either of those times? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is definitely like the first time of the year

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Speaker 1: kind of situation. Didn't have my stuff organized. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is our second Campion trip of the year, but

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Speaker 1: our first one out west, so it was just different

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Speaker 1: and stuff wasn't in the right places yet, and we're

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Speaker 1: still like you know, just we're not fully settled. Um. Plus,

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Speaker 1: usually it's like a team effort, right, Like there's the

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Speaker 1: name for this thing. I don't know what it's calls,

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Speaker 1: like something about the I wish I knew what this was.

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Speaker 1: But there's this idea that when you're in a couple,

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Speaker 1: like when you when you're married, you end up having

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Speaker 1: certain parts of your brain, are certain parts of your

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Speaker 1: day that you just completely offshore to your significant other,

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Speaker 1: Like you don't even think about certain things, you don't

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Speaker 1: even do certain things at all. It just becomes a

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Speaker 1: part of like you knowing that your significant other will

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Speaker 1: always cover this thing, or will always take care of

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Speaker 1: this task, or we'll always be thinking about this part

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Speaker 1: of the problem or whatever it is. And so what

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Speaker 1: I realized is that that's kind of how me and

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Speaker 1: my wife operate when packing for trips or camping trips

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Speaker 1: or something like that. So there's so much that I'm

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Speaker 1: so used to like doing this as a team effort,

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Speaker 1: Like I know my things, she does her things. But

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Speaker 1: in this case, I was trying to do it all

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Speaker 1: and I was failing miserably. So that's the big thing. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really good to have to face your flaws, Mark,

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Speaker 1: and then you can become a better person. That's what

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Speaker 1: of those things have been having to do for a

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Speaker 1: lot lately. But it's uh, I have listeners all the

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Speaker 1: time who are like, Hey, can you help Mark face

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Speaker 1: some of his flaws? That's what you're here for, funny

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Speaker 1: and uh, I guess. On on that note, you are

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Speaker 1: taking us on this journey for the next month, taking

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Speaker 1: over the podcast, running us on this series about the

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Speaker 1: science of white tails. So maybe we should talk about that, Tony,

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Speaker 1: what's up? What brought you to this? Like, why is

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Speaker 1: this a topic that you wanted to explore in a

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Speaker 1: deep in a deep way. There's a couple of reasons,

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Speaker 1: you know, a surface level. I guess you could just say,

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Speaker 1: I'm just curious about the research and the science. Like

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Speaker 1: you've interviewed a whole bunch of people in your life, obviously,

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Speaker 1: and it's so fun to interview somebody whose life is

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Speaker 1: dedicated to science, especially when that science is dedicated to

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Speaker 1: the animals we love. It's just it's just interesting, and

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Speaker 1: so I was I was stoked to do something like

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Speaker 1: that anyway, just to not be talking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: how to kill a bucks this way or how to

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Speaker 1: kill a buck that way. And then the other part

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Speaker 1: of it is, you know, we beat this drama a

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Speaker 1: lot about just just not understanding dear like we we

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Speaker 1: we kind of take it for granted when we talk

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Speaker 1: in this space that it's like, Okay, we know what

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Speaker 1: dear doing. The bed here, they feed here or whatever.

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Speaker 1: We kind of got to figure out the nuance of

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Speaker 1: their daily travel that it's done. But we don't really

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Speaker 1: understand these animals very well, like what what makes them tick?

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Speaker 1: Like what what did they evolve from? And like how

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Speaker 1: does their eyesight really work? And all these things that

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Speaker 1: we just sort of, you know, either either don't even

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Speaker 1: really acknowledge because we don't feel like we have to,

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Speaker 1: or we we don't. We kind of we kind of

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Speaker 1: just like dismissive of it, like, well, that's just how

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Speaker 1: dear C. Like I know, how dear C. And then

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Speaker 1: you talk to somebody who's like a real expert on

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Speaker 1: that and it's eye opening. It's it's so interesting. And

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Speaker 1: so there were a couple of different reasons and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do this and it was pretty fun. Man, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what about I'm sure there's some people listening now, or

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Speaker 1: who looked at the title of this and thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: I just want to know where to find bucks on scrapes,

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Speaker 1: or you know, I'm just gonna pour pile of corn

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Speaker 1: out there and shoot a deer. Why do I need

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Speaker 1: to get a PhD In the science of white tails

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Speaker 1: or something like that? Like pitch me, or pitch that

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Speaker 1: person who's a little antagonistic to this idea on why

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Speaker 1: this is actually going to help them? Or is it

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Speaker 1: is this just gonna be like scratching curiosity itch and like,

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Speaker 1: is fascinating stuff Tony? Or are you actually gonna help

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Speaker 1: us learn stuff that's not just fascinating but also practically helpful.

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Speaker 1: It's both, I mean, And here's the this is the

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Speaker 1: weird part, right, Like you you could know nothing about

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Speaker 1: deer essentially and still kill them. Like, if you have

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Speaker 1: the right set up, you could know very little about

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Speaker 1: what makes dear tick and you could still kill them.

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Speaker 1: But if you want to be a better hunter, you

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Speaker 1: gotta understand what motivates them, Like you got to understand

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Speaker 1: what they're made of. And you know, I always think

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Speaker 1: about it, Like you know, I quit I equate a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff to dog training, right and the more

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Speaker 1: you learn about how a dogs knows and how nose

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Speaker 1: works or dog sees, or why a dog makes eye

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Speaker 1: contact with you or you know, makes this kind of

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Speaker 1: body language versus that kind or something like that. You know,

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Speaker 1: you don't really need to know that stuff to train

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Speaker 1: a dog, like you could. You could teach a dog

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Speaker 1: to heel and sit and double blind or treating all

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Speaker 1: that stuff without really knowing that, but you wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: as good as a dog trainer. And I feel the

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Speaker 1: same way about white tails, like if you if you

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Speaker 1: want to be a better hunter, and I'm I'm guessing

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Speaker 1: that most of the people who listen to this podcast

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Speaker 1: do like understanding why white tails do what they do.

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Speaker 1: It's so important. Yeah, you know, it's another another um

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Speaker 1: another part of this. I feel like, at least for me,

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Speaker 1: I do feel like when you start to understand these

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Speaker 1: things is deeper aspects of white tail by allergy or

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Speaker 1: you know, for me, more recently, it's been like trying

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Speaker 1: to understand habitat and understand like what the different plants

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Speaker 1: are out there, what trees are, trying to identify tree

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Speaker 1: species and plant species, and you know, this is something

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Speaker 1: I talked about during my Habitat series earlier this year.

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Speaker 1: How once you start to learn about the environment around you,

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Speaker 1: it it's like you are wearing a totally different set

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Speaker 1: of glasses when you enter the woods. It's like when

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Speaker 1: you're fishing, Tony, this is an analogy I've been using recently.

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Speaker 1: You're throwing like polarized sunglasses when you're fishing, and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden you see this whole other world under

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Speaker 1: the surface of the water that was there all along,

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Speaker 1: but you couldn't see it. Well, I feel like a

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Speaker 1: similar thing is happening in this case too, Like when

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Speaker 1: you start learning about the science and biology of the

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Speaker 1: animals you're pursuing. In this case, white tails, I think

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Speaker 1: you enter the woods seeing and understanding a totally different

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Speaker 1: picture than what was their previous to that, right, I

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Speaker 1: really do think you create a richer experience that helps

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Speaker 1: you hunt, but then also just makes the whole thing

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Speaker 1: a lot more interesting to do. Um. Yeah, well, and

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Speaker 1: I think you know along those lines, Mark, like, one

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Speaker 1: of the most important things we can ask ourselves as

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Speaker 1: hunters is why, Like why why did they do this?

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Speaker 1: Or why did that buck do that? And you know,

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Speaker 1: through our anecdotal observation. We can only get so far

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Speaker 1: with that, right, Like I get I can only get

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Speaker 1: so far if I walk if I watch a buck,

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Speaker 1: you know, walk through the woods and he he makes

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Speaker 1: a rub there, and he nibbles on some brows here,

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Speaker 1: Like I can. I can figure some stuff out just

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Speaker 1: by seeing that and paying attention to it. But there

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Speaker 1: are people out there who have studied that stuff, like

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Speaker 1: really studied why dear do those things? And you know,

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Speaker 1: they're a wealth of knowledge that you're just like, even

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Speaker 1: even in a lifetime of observation and dipping into the

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Speaker 1: world of the white tail, you're not gonna learn some

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Speaker 1: of the stuff that that these people learn through like

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Speaker 1: careful research. And so that's I just think that's cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you feel like if you were looked back over

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Speaker 1: the course of your life, you're hunting life, I know

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Speaker 1: that this kind of stuff has always tickled your fancy,

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Speaker 1: Like you're you're a student of white tail science. You're

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Speaker 1: interested in this stuff. Can you think of any example

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Speaker 1: in your hunting experiences over the years where some kind

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Speaker 1: of understanding of the science actually helps you on a hunt,

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Speaker 1: Like you were sitting there thinking what should I do?

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Speaker 1: What should I do and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, well, you know what this and this

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Speaker 1: means that really they're gonna be doing this kind of

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Speaker 1: thing at this time of year, and that like influence

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Speaker 1: the decision. Maybe early on when you were just figuring

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Speaker 1: this stuff out, maybe it was more that kind of

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Speaker 1: internal conversation. But does anything come to mind or does

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Speaker 1: that real bell of any kind of idea where this

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Speaker 1: stuff actually came into play in a way that you

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Speaker 1: could say, oh, yeah, this was because I'd read this

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Speaker 1: study or paid attention to this class or anything like that. Um,

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Speaker 1: I would say, you know, probably the most relatable way

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Speaker 1: that I could describe that, or like, the most relevant

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Speaker 1: way I could describe that is far as me having

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Speaker 1: a lightbulb moment out there, is to start to think

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Speaker 1: about predator avoidance, which when when you talk about a

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Speaker 1: prey animal and a bunch of these researchers talked about

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Speaker 1: different aspects of this, and you know how good deer

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Speaker 1: are at just not getting killed and not just by us,

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Speaker 1: by everything that's out there that can kill them. When

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Speaker 1: I start thinking about myself and like a predator that

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Speaker 1: they really fear, you know, like we don't equate ourselves

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Speaker 1: to a grizzly bear. We don't equate ourselves to a

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Speaker 1: pack of coyotes. Like, we don't think about ourselves that way,

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Speaker 1: but they think of us that way and they have.

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Speaker 1: When you start understanding like the universal tools they have

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Speaker 1: to avoid that level of predation, it makes you realize

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Speaker 1: like the impact you can have. So we can be

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Speaker 1: kind of like flippant or you know, just like not

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Speaker 1: not really take into account the severity of our impact

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Speaker 1: on them. But we got to think about it in

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Speaker 1: a way, like we we don't. We don't really relate

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Speaker 1: to being you know, pursued by predators very often, and

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Speaker 1: if you do have a big predator taken interest in you,

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Speaker 1: it changes your perspective in a hurry. But we don't

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Speaker 1: really think about them that way. Like we kind of

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Speaker 1: just think we go into this world and it's like

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Speaker 1: our hobby or passion and we like it. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: don't want to spook dear, but we don't think about

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Speaker 1: like residual impact from our scent, you know, a cent

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Speaker 1: trail we might leave in there, or something we might

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Speaker 1: touch or you know, get spotted by that fork in

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Speaker 1: the tree because you're on your phone like you don't

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Speaker 1: really care, but all of that stuff is real important

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Speaker 1: to them. And when you start talking to some of

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Speaker 1: these researchers and listening to what they say, it makes

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Speaker 1: you realize, like, man, if there's one thing I should

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Speaker 1: be doing, I should be thinking of myself as something

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Speaker 1: that's real scary to them and I don't want them

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Speaker 1: to know them there. And I know that's like you know,

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Speaker 1: we we we talked about that a lot right access

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Speaker 1: and you know where you how are you going to

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Speaker 1: get into your tree? And are you really going to

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Speaker 1: play the wind and all this stuff. But I don't

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Speaker 1: think you can focus on that too much. Mhm. So

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Speaker 1: so I guess before we're going further, can you can

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Speaker 1: you walk me through what we cover, Like who are

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Speaker 1: the people were talking to over the course of the

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Speaker 1: next month, and what are the focuses that we're going

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Speaker 1: to dive into with each one. I think they'd be

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Speaker 1: helpful to understand, like what we're getting ourselves into here. Yeah, man, uh,

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Speaker 1: Bradley Cohen is a researcher I had on so fascinating

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Speaker 1: and we spent almost the whole episode talking about Dear

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Speaker 1: Vision and how they're they're literally the anatomy of their

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Speaker 1: eyeballs developed and what they're really really good at, seeing

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Speaker 1: how well their vision works compared to ours when it

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Speaker 1: works well. Just a just a total breakdown of how

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Speaker 1: white tails used their eyes. And I'm telling you, I

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Speaker 1: went into that and I was like, you know, I

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Speaker 1: was curious. But they've they've studied this in a way

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Speaker 1: that they've learned so much about what deer can actually

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Speaker 1: see in the different wavelengths and how it relates to us,

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Speaker 1: and how it relates to looking at the horizon versus

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Speaker 1: looking straight up into a tree. Such fascinating stuff in

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Speaker 1: that one before you only further time on Uh, I

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Speaker 1: gotta ask him, hoping you guys talked about this. If not, um,

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Speaker 1: either you need to call him back up and add

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Speaker 1: on to the podcast, or I need to call him.

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Speaker 1: And because I actually want to write an article about

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Speaker 1: the question I'm about to pose to you. I want

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Speaker 1: to write an article or get the answer to whether

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Speaker 1: or not there is anything to the idea that you

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Speaker 1: shouldn't make eye contact with a deer, Like there's certain

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Speaker 1: people that swear to God like when a deer is

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Speaker 1: getting spooky, don't look at him, or don't look at her.

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Speaker 1: Don't let her see your eyes. Like Andrea Quisto swears

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Speaker 1: to God he will. He wears a mesh eye covering

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Speaker 1: over his eyes, and he swears that makes a difference.

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Speaker 1: And I don't have any kind of real science or

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Speaker 1: anything to back it up. But when there's a deer

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Speaker 1: ten yards away and she's getting spooky, she knows something up,

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Speaker 1: something's up. I squint my eyes, like, I won't look

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Speaker 1: her in the eye, just have like a weird little

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Speaker 1: old wives tale or something. I don't know. I just

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Speaker 1: feel like there's got to be something there. Um. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why. I can't back it up, but I

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Speaker 1: mean they say, like, don't make eye contact with a

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Speaker 1: grizzly bear because they can somehow sense that and get

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Speaker 1: more aggressive. So why couldn't a pray animal recognize eye contact?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Do you guys talk about that? I

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Speaker 1: can't remember if I talked about it with him or

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Speaker 1: somebody else, but we got into that. Yeah, is there

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Speaker 1: is there anything to it? Or do you when I

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Speaker 1: want to like drop the bomb because it's so juicy,

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Speaker 1: you want to save it for later Because I'm very

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Speaker 1: there's something to it. I mean, there is something to it,

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Speaker 1: and like you said, you know you squint or you know,

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Speaker 1: Andrea says this, when you when you deer hunt a lot,

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Speaker 1: you recognize that moment, you know, when it almost like

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Speaker 1: when a deer is gonna look at you and not

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Speaker 1: spooke versus when a deer is gonna look at you

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden ratchet up that awareness level.

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Speaker 1: And when you see at when you can feel that

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Speaker 1: coming or you see it, you always distinctively start to

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Speaker 1: kind of side eye them or cast your gaze down

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Speaker 1: or just even not even look at them, you know,

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Speaker 1: directly and just like it's sort of in your peripheral

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Speaker 1: and just wait for them to decide. So I don't

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Speaker 1: think you know this. This is a hard thing probably

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Speaker 1: to prove, but I don't think there's any question that

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Speaker 1: you probably don't want to, like make direct eye contact

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Speaker 1: with a deer you're trying to kill. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we see, we see, like you said, with with big predators,

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Speaker 1: and you know, when you see how dogs have evolved, like,

402
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Speaker 1: eye contacts a real thing out there in nature, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's a it's a real threat to be looking

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Speaker 1: into the eyes of another creature. What do you what

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Speaker 1: do you think about like the idea of a we're

406
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: really go off a tangent here, but that's okay. It's

407
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 1: kind of tied of this like a sixth sense. You

408
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 1: hear sometimes about people, you know, a kind of spitballing

409
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Speaker 1: about animals have some kind of sixth cents to pray,

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Speaker 1: species have some kind of other awareness of the picking

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Speaker 1: up on something else that we aren't. Um do you

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Speaker 1: think there's anything to that or have you talked to

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Speaker 1: anyone ever who has alluded to there being any kind

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Speaker 1: of scientific basis for the idea of some other sense

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Speaker 1: or sensibility that certain animals species have. So I asked

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Speaker 1: that question to Justin Brown actually, and we kind of

417
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Speaker 1: go down a weird rabbit hole on it. I don't

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Speaker 1: think anybody's studied it. He certainly hadn't, but we kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, academically, it's an interesting thing to discuss with

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Speaker 1: somebody who's an expert on you know, kind of white

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Speaker 1: tail anatomy and evolution. And I personally don't think there's

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Speaker 1: anything there, but I also think there could be something

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Speaker 1: there that's like totally grounded in biology that we don't

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Speaker 1: really understand. So we could, you know, It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like if you went back a couple of thousand years

426
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Speaker 1: ago in our history, we would assign a lot of

427
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Speaker 1: magic to stuff we didn't understand, right, You like, we

428
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Speaker 1: just we just didn't know, right, Oh, it's a pile

429
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,479
Speaker 1: of straw mis baby mice. Well, no, like mice make

430
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,120
Speaker 1: baby mice. But you know at one point we didn't

431
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: know that, right, So we just make up an explanation.

432
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: And when you talk to a guy like Justin, you know,

433
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 1: he's real deep into you know, why why are deer's

434
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: legs built this way? Well because of this and that,

435
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: and they I mean they study it, and so they

436
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 1: figure out things about a deer's anatomy that are tied

437
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: directly to predator avoidance or you know, smelling the micro

438
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 1: nutrient content in brows and eating only the best, you know,

439
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: freshest stuff that they need in the moment. When you

440
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 1: when you see things like that, or you hear somebody

441
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 1: who understands that, I don't think it's a stretch to think, like, yeah,

442
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: maybe there's not like a true sixth sense, but maybe

443
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 1: there's something tied to one of their one of their

444
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: highly developed senses that we just don't get you know,

445
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: and and I'll give you an example. So, and I

446
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 1: think about this a lot because it's it's kind of wooo,

447
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 1: but it's it's I've heard it from several people. So

448
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: I've I've interviewed, uh, some people who train protection dogs,

449
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: so you know, canine dogs essentially uh Belgian Malanoir shepherds

450
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: whatever that are. They're they're there to protect somebody, you know,

451
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: whether whoever, and this this I interviewed this woman one

452
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: time who said, and she owns a whole business dedicated

453
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: to this, and she said, one of the ways they

454
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: test their dogs is they'll throw like five volunteers in

455
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: a bite suit. And so, you know, a bite suit

456
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: is what everybody's seen, you know. Some somebody runs along,

457
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: the dog goes and grabs you by the arm, pulls

458
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: you down. Then the handler pulls them off. And then

459
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: she said, to to really like test the dogs, she'll

460
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: instruct one person out of those five to go really

461
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: dark with their thoughts, like I'm I'm gonna do horrible

462
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: things to that handler. And she said it's so like

463
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: it's so reliable, so consistent that the dog will hone

464
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 1: in on that person who's having those horrible thoughts that

465
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: She's like, they just know somehow, And I've and it

466
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: wasn't just her. I've had other people in that space

467
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 1: who are really knowledgeable tell me that, and I go, well,

468
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: how the hell does a Belgian Melania know what you're thinking?

469
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,959
Speaker 1: Or or that your thoughts have turned that dark? And

470
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: so then you know, if you believe that, it's not

471
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: like a huge stretch to think about a prey animal

472
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: walking by some predator hiding up in a tree who

473
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: has bad intentions, right Like, I'm like, when I see

474
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: a buck coming, I'm like, I want to kill that

475
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 1: son of a bit, right Like, maybe there's something to it.

476
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: I don't disagree, Like I I think your explanation about

477
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 1: how you know we'd just have them figure out the

478
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: science to speak about it, yet sounds quite plausible. I mean,

479
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: there's so many examples like well you subscribed or what

480
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: about just now? This is very anecdotal. I don't know

481
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: if anybody's ever actually tried to apply like a quantitative

482
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: analysis to this. But how many stories have you heard

483
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: of people who we're walking down a trail or were

484
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: I don't know, camping or whatever, when all of a

485
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: sudden they feel like the hair in the back or

486
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: the necks rise up, and they just feel like someone's

487
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: watching them or something bad is going to happen. Like

488
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: so many people, you hear these stories where there's the

489
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: sense of being watched or the sense of some impending

490
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: danger coming. And then the next day they're walking around

491
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: and they see mountain lion tracks ten yards behind them,

492
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 1: behind this tree or or something like that. You know,

493
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: there's so many stories where people sense something is watching

494
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: them or some dangerous coming. And now, of course it's

495
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: probably ten million examples of that, and we hear the

496
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: ten stories where there actually was something dangerous. Maybe that's

497
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 1: the case, right, But I don't know. There seems to

498
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: be the plausible idea that there could be something to it.

499
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: And you know, you talked about how, you know, like

500
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: an animal's nose can pick up on these different things.

501
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: I mean, there's all these different chemical signals being transferred

502
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: that we don't even pick up on. I mean, you know,

503
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: the science is now showing that trees in a certain

504
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: way are communicating between each other with different chemical aerosoults

505
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: that are released by their leaves based on different stimuli

506
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: or different dangers. And if if that kind of stuff

507
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: can be sent out in the air and transferred in

508
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: a way. Why couldn't similar chemicals be created by mammals

509
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: that could then be picked up by a prey species,

510
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: you know, not even realizing that they're smelling this, but

511
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: in some way they're smelling intention in a way, because

512
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: our bodies are creating some different kind of chemical in

513
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: that moment that could be picked up ten yards away

514
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 1: or fifteen yards away by a astuteley evolutionary crafted prey

515
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: species to survive that kind of thing, you know, I mean,

516
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: I don't. I wouldn't put to pass it at all.

517
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: I think it's well, I mean, there there's a reason

518
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: that you know, I mean, it's instinct, you know, And

519
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: I think that that's something that can be you know,

520
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: probably pretty dulled by our modern lives because we have it,

521
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: have it pretty good. But you know, if you took

522
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: I mean, all right, take an example, like if you

523
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: dropped me into Ukraine right now and said start fighting Russians,

524
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: I'd probably be dead in like a day, right because

525
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have a clue what I was doing. But

526
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: if you take somebody who's been fighting over there for

527
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: those ninety days, and who trained for years before that.

528
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: Their instincts in that environment are probably amazing, like just

529
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: probably so in tune. So you know, you take it,

530
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: take a white tail out there, you know that. And

531
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: you can see this on a sort of a smaller

532
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: level if you if you hunt a wide variety of

533
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: different spots. I think, if you if you go hunt

534
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: some badass branch down in Texas where there's like it's

535
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: real managed and you know, the population is really high,

536
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: and you know, those deer don't have like tons of

537
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: fear most of the time. You can see it. Oh,

538
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: you're like, these are not the same deer I hunt

539
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: on public land by my house in the Twin Cities,

540
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: Like they're they're different. Thing. They're there still dear, but

541
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: that that instinct, that survival instinct, and those those skills

542
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,719
Speaker 1: of using whatever they have available. I mean, if they

543
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: don't have to use them, they're gonna lose them to

544
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 1: a certain extent, you would assume. Yeah, very very true. Man,

545
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, this is something it's very very interesting.

546
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: I really need to do a deeper dive into this

547
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:40,479
Speaker 1: whole eye contact sixth sense thing. Um. If the science

548
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: isn't there yet, I bet it will be someday because

549
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: it's just it's just too interesting. Yeah, okay, So I

550
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: mean I think, hold on one second. I think I

551
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 1: think the hardest part about that that I got from

552
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: all these these interviews is studying wild deer versus you know,

553
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: you can set up a study and and this is

554
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: part of the reason why a lot of this research

555
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: goes the way it does, because they tend to research

556
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: dear that they can, or they tend to research topics

557
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: that are ah easily researchable in a pen situation, you know,

558
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: like taking a wild white tail and going, okay, how

559
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: do they detect predators? Not as a research scientist, like

560
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: that's a heavy lift man, Like how do you how

561
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: the hell do you even control that? Yeah? Who knows?

562
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: I interrupted you when you were going through your rundown.

563
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: So you you mentioned the vision episode and then you

564
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: mentioned a guy named Justin. Who what's he talking about?

565
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: Justin's fascinating man, he U he really understands dear anatomy

566
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: and you know, white tail evolution. And this guy has

567
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: studied more uh DOM diseases, viruses, different animals than probably

568
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: anyone out there. Like he he's not just just a

569
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: white tailed guy. I mean, he studied different viruses and

570
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: turkeys and what's his gross what's his job title like

571
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. What's his actual career? So he

572
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: he has a background and and he's a veterinarian and

573
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: he has a background in biomedical science. Wow, so he's

574
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: and I feel so bad. He was so nice and

575
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: I interviewed him the day that I really came down

576
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: with COVID, and so I felt I felt bad. Like,

577
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: let me let me tell you this. So you know

578
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: when you are doing a podcast and you're you're in

579
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: the moment and you say something and like in your head,

580
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: you're like that was so dumb, and I'm going to

581
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: care about that. Yeah. There. I had about nine of

582
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 1: those moments with Justin. At one point I was like

583
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't think of the word scientist, and so I

584
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: said like science guy or something. And as soon as

585
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: I said, I was like, oh god, like and I had.

586
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: I just had several these moments, and I felt so

587
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: bad because he's such an interesting guy and had so

588
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: much good information and here I am this low wavelength,

589
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: hairless ape trying to interview him and I'm like a

590
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: train wreck. But he was fascinating, so he carried it

591
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: well enough that your inadequacies won't bring down too much.

592
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: He did, and he we we talked off air about

593
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: some of the stuff that we didn't touch on, and

594
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: that that's what was really cool about these guys that

595
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: I interviewed, you know there they're passionate hunters who got

596
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: into the science space. And I mean, you can talk

597
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: to these guys for an hour or two and you

598
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: don't even scratch the surface of what they have to offer,

599
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: you know. I mean I I left I left every

600
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: one of those episodes with notes about the next go

601
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: around that I wanted to talk to them about because

602
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: they have so much interesting, relevant information to us. I

603
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: love it. So what's next? Then? So I interviewed Carl Miller. Um,

604
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: you know, Carl, Carl's like a legend in the in

605
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: the white tail space. I really don't think anyone has

606
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: published more research on deer than Carl. And he was

607
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: really really interesting. And what did you cover with him? Ah?

608
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: We covered all kinds of stuff with Carl. He because

609
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: of his just because of his depth of knowledge. I

610
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: really just kind of wanted to. I didn't. I didn't

611
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: go into it like, Okay, this is this is a

612
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: dear vision one, right, Like, I'm like, what's the most

613
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: interesting thing you've studied? Like what what are you concerned

614
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: about with the future. What we think about is like

615
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: you know Stewards of the Resource And have you ever

616
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: met him? Do you know him? I met him a

617
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: while back. Yeah, he's such a nice guy and so

618
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: just so full of knowledge on white tails. So we

619
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: kind of went all over the place in that episode.

620
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: It wasn't like a that was like a shotgun approach episode,

621
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: but just just a fun guy to listen to. Okay,

622
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: so that's three out of five, right, So what else?

623
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: Michael Chamberlain as well, So you know, people, people who

624
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: listen to met Eater podcast, I'm sure have heard him.

625
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: And he's he's made a name for himself as the

626
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: turkey doc, right, Like he's he's probably the foremost wild

627
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: turkey researcher in this country. Like I don't think that's

628
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: a crazy thing to say, but man, that guy is

629
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: obsessed with hunting white tails, and so he's he's out

630
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: there in our space, uh, you know, educating people on turkeys,

631
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: and he's passionate about turkeys. He's a whole mother level

632
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: with white tails. Just loves it, and so kind of

633
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: with him too. You know, we we talked about a

634
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: lot of difference, like bond repruvement, a lot of predation stuff.

635
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: He does a lot of studies down south and you know,

636
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: do use with you know, how many fonds the bears

637
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: eat in Louisiana, that kind of stuff, and just just interesting.

638
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: He's such a good dude. Awesome, I like it. And

639
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: then the last one, so one thing that happened in

640
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: these podcasts that I didn't intend to all Right, I

641
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: guess I shouldn't say that that's that's bad phrasing. I

642
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: didn't see coming. Was every single one of these people

643
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: I interviewed is really really interested in the future of

644
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: white tales, Like there's no question in my mind. And

645
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: c w D came up over and over and over again,

646
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: like that you want to talk about like the top

647
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: concern with these science these scientists, it's like no question, yeah, science.

648
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: And so I had Jason Sumners on from the Missouri

649
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 1: Department of Conservation. He's the he's the head of the

650
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: Division of Science or their branch of science or something

651
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: that the MDC down there. They have a re really

652
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: really interesting set up for their their game department, and

653
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: they have a heavy emphasis on science and research, and

654
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: so it's he was and he runs the whole thing,

655
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: and so he, you know, he and I really basically

656
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: did an episode on chronic wasting disease. And it's a

657
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 1: it's a sort of a downer, I guess you could say,

658
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: but also not totally hopeless. Like when you when you

659
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: have somebody like that at the helm who's concerned about

660
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,479
Speaker 1: it and loves dear and has the resources to really

661
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: study this and figure out what might work and what doesn't,

662
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: it gives you a little bit of hope. Yeah, c

663
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: W D. Man, it's such a doozy of a topic too,

664
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: because it's because it's it's got several things going for

665
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: it going against it. I mean, it's it's slow moving,

666
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: and so it's not something that instantly changes things and

667
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: that people can point a thing go and say, oh, yeah,

668
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: it absolutely made this horrible thing happen. So yes, we

669
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: absolutely have to do something about it. But but no,

670
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: instead of slow moving, it's hard to really wrap your

671
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: head around. It has become politicized in a certain way

672
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: within the deer hunting community, and so it's become like

673
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: this this issue that's like ripping, tearing the community apart

674
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: between like believers and deniers. I mean, it's like it's

675
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: like COVID or climate change or something, but the deer

676
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: hunting version of it, that's like becoming this weirdly polarized thing. Um.

677
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: And so some people either get really charged up about

678
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: it or some people just put their heads in the

679
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 1: sand and just want to stay out of it because

680
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: they don't want to get into this polarizing, depressing issue. Uh,

681
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: why is it worth listening to Tony If I'm worried

682
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: about that? If I'm that person, I'm thinking, Gosh, this

683
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: is just this is a downer. This is gonna stress

684
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: me out, and it's gonna piss off my friend. If

685
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: I tell them that you should pay attention to see

686
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: w D or whatever, H what do you tell that person? Uh?

687
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: I would tell them a lot. You know. I'm I've

688
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: been I've I've been involved in this issue for a

689
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: long time. I've written about it a ton and done

690
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: a lot of research on it, and I've been I

691
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: kind of hit this sort of agnostic state with it

692
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: where I was like, I'm you know, it was part

693
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: of it was fatigue, right, but part of it was

694
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: like I just don't know, Like I don't know what's

695
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: bullshit and what's not, you know, like because because like

696
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: you said, it is like a highly politicized issue, and

697
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: when you talk to somebody who loves deer, who actually

698
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: handles the science behind it, it's sort of, uh, it

699
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: sort of just clears out some of the white noise.

700
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: And what you realize is, you know, we have some

701
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,720
Speaker 1: pretty prominent voices out there who have a vested interest

702
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: in straight up lying about CWD or you know, really

703
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: downplaying some of the stuff we know, you know, and

704
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: and those voices have done a lot of damage. And

705
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: so when you when you talk to people, you know,

706
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: like a really common one, a really common thing to

707
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: say around CWD is that it's been here forever and

708
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: it's just a part of the natural world of our

709
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: dear elk. The problem with something like that is it's

710
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,479
Speaker 1: that's not backed up by anything. Like nobody who knows

711
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: what they're doing with the science says that's true. They

712
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: say it could be true, like we it might that's possible, right,

713
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: there's no data to support that, and so we have

714
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: so many different aspects of this that that fall into

715
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: sort of that category. So yeah, you can fill in

716
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 1: the blanks and decide that this is, it goes this

717
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: way or it doesn't do this. We don't know a

718
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: lot of that stuff, and so there's some serious mental

719
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 1: horsepower out there being dedicated to like figuring out those things,

720
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: whether they're true or not. And yeah, can we contain it,

721
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: like can we keep prevalence levels low? What does it

722
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: really mean for the future or white tails? And you can't.

723
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: You could take an issue like this and it's it's

724
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: it just is what it is. It's there's there's research

725
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 1: around it, their science behind it. They're trying to figure

726
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: out what this means. But it's also like inextricably linked

727
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: to uh, the social science or the social aspect of it,

728
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: and so we get it gets real muddy when we

729
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: do that because we have a vested interest in seeing

730
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: lots of deer out there, because we don't want this

731
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: to change. So just us as an audience consuming this,

732
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: we're kind of like, it's it's sort of easier to

733
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: just stick your head in the stand and be like

734
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: I don't I don't really want to know, or I

735
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: don't really want to think about this because I want

736
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: dear to be there and I don't want the bad news.

737
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: And you know that that's sort of an easy take,

738
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: but like maybe it's not the best one. Like if

739
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: we care about the future of white pills, we should

740
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: want this research to be conducted like we should. We

741
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: should want to know what this means and get the

742
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 1: best info we can. Yeah. Man, it's the perfect poison

743
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: as far as hard issue to address because of those

744
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 1: exact things. It's it's a our human psychology in so

745
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: many ways, it is perfectly fine tuned to not want

746
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: to deal with something like this. You know, it's a

747
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: it's a doozy m well and I would say on

748
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: that too. One of the things this will be. This

749
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: is tough to prove, but I believe this, like in

750
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,479
Speaker 1: my heart, when you when you talk to these people

751
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: who I who I've talked to for these interviews, you

752
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 1: don't get this propaganda vibe. You don't get this like

753
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: undercurrent of you know, like ulterior motives or something like that.

754
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: It's like you get you get the feeling that they're

755
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,919
Speaker 1: like I want this to continue, like I want there

756
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: to be a be deer around for my kids and

757
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: my grandkids. You don't you just don't. It's like, it

758
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: makes you realize that there are people in this that

759
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: who are genuinely working toward a good cause, and you

760
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: might like the agency they worked for, you might want

761
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: to assign like nefarious intent to them, But when you

762
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: spend time with these people, it's like, man, I don't know,

763
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: it feels pretty genuine to me that that they're really

764
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: trying to learn something that can help all of us

765
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 1: and the deer out. Yeah. So when you look at

766
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: these five conversations you've had, is there anything that kind

767
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: of through you for a loop? Were you surprised by anything,

768
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: or did you have a previous assumption that was upturned

769
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: or anything. Was there any kind of like whoa moment

770
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: for you throughout this process? There definitely was, uh, And

771
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: it actually happened in the CWD conversation with Jason Sumners.

772
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: I don't I don't really want to give it away,

773
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: but I had I had sort of made up my mind,

774
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: and I didn't realize I had kind of made my

775
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: mind up this way until I said something about the

776
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: future of white tails and what I thought, and he

777
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: corrected me and said, you know, what we're finding is

778
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 1: that that that's just not true, and I I don't

779
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: want to give it away, but it was one of

780
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: those moments where I was like, God, I think I

781
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: had this totally wrong, like totally wrong, and I didn't

782
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 1: even realize how, you know, like how kind of ensconced

783
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: in that way of thinking. I was interesting. Here's another

784
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: thing that's curious about, you know, in a lot of

785
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: like my off I don't know how to described, I

786
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: do a ton of just reading and research about a

787
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: whole bunch of different things related to wildlife and the

788
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: environment and stuff, and and we're starting to see, you know,

789
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: increasing evidence of you know, just the the widespread long

790
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: term influence and impact we're having on wildlife right so

791
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: much so that now we're actually able to kind of

792
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: identify ways that animals have, you know, are beginning to

793
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 1: evolve and adapt and change to specific you know, influences

794
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: of humans, and certain species are really good at adapting

795
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: and and literally changing the something called phenotypic plasticity, which

796
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: is a fun new ten dollar word that I've liked

797
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: that points to the the ability for these animals to

798
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 1: to change both behaviorally and even possibly in their genes,

799
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: to adapt to how the world is changing. Because of us. Um.

800
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 1: And so that's been an interesting thing I've been reading about.

801
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: I got to thinking, you know, is that happening with

802
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 1: white tails? Are we changing white tails? I mean, white

803
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: tails are incredibly adaptable. They're one of these species that

804
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: are actually winners in the jack potter. I go, what

805
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: am I trying to say? They're they're winners as far

806
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: as an animal species that can live alongside of humans

807
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: compared to many others. Right, um. And I'm curious if

808
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: in any of your conversations you heard about this at all.

809
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: Are there any examples of that kind of thing that

810
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 1: these scientists are picking up on, is the biology of

811
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 1: white tails or or the behavior or anything changing alongside

812
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: of how we humans have changed things that anything along

813
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: those lines come up. So yeah, that I'm pretty sure

814
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 1: it was with just and Justin Brown where we we

815
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 1: talked about that not only with white tails and how

816
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: adaptable they are, and he he brought it up. I

817
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: don't remember exactly how he phrased it, but it was,

818
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: you know, their adaptability is partially due to their evolution

819
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 1: as edge critters and being being sort of wired towards

820
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: being around you know, edges of habitat and stuff. But

821
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 1: you know, we kind of went down this rabbit hole

822
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: of them being super adaptable to us and you know,

823
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: you know, pretty rapid changing environments, you know, versus maybe

824
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: mule deer. And one of the things he talked about

825
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: was was coyotes, which are you know, a similar example

826
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: like like the white tail, where they just whatever you

827
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: throw at them, they seem to make it work. And

828
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: it's a fascinating aspect to white tails to you know,

829
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: to see it sort of just makes you realize how

830
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: much of a gift they are to be able to

831
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: play so well with us no matter how much we

832
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: develop and no matter how much we change into the land.

833
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: And it's it's it's pretty wild and it and it

834
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: is it is like tied to you know, their evolutionary

835
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: path that that adaptability is. But it's not like you

836
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: can just say it's you know this gene, you know,

837
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: like it's not like you can it's it's not an

838
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: easy thing to put your finger on. But they're like

839
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 1: hyper aware of it. M Yeah, they're survivors, that's for sure.

840
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 1: Some of the very best What Tony of all this

841
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: is that anything stand out to you as it's something

842
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: that you either identified as something you want to dive

843
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: further into or that you wish you could have covered

844
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: but somehow didn't come up, Like what's next for you

845
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: or for us? If there's an area where you want

846
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: and more, what's the area that is pulling you to

847
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: explore next after this foundation that you've developed and that

848
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: we're all going to learn about here soon. Oh man,

849
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: there's so much stuff. I mean you you really you

850
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: could probably do a hundred podcasts with each one of

851
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: these guests and probably find dozens and dozens more people

852
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: just like them and and talk about this stuff. When

853
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: you get into conversations with these guys, especially after the

854
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: show's over, you know how it is, they'll just mention

855
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: something like, oh, yeah, we're working on this study, or

856
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: we're thinking about this or thinking about doing that, or

857
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: this was like an anomaly and we're just curious about it,

858
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: and you realize how much there is to learn, Like

859
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: if I took away anything from this, it was like, man,

860
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: I got a lot of stuff left to learn about

861
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: white tails, and so do these people who know a

862
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: lot more about white tails than I do. And I

863
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: just I just think that's cool, Like I I just

864
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 1: think it's cool that there's you know, this animal we're

865
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: obsessed with and we think about all the time, and

866
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: we we we try to figure out and we try

867
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 1: to just learn about and we could we could never

868
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 1: know enough about them, like we could never get there,

869
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: like we could never get to the end. And I

870
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: just think that's cool. They're just such amazing animals, very

871
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 1: very very very true, which is why we've done five

872
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,720
Speaker 1: so many episodes of this one and however many thousands

873
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: of episodes of other podcasts and videos. Right, we just

874
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: can't get enough. Yeah, well, I mean that that that's

875
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: the thing we don't talk about. I think, Uh well,

876
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: I mean we kind of do, but we kind of

877
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: we kind of screwed around. It is you know, how

878
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: how hard this stuff really is, Like how how hard

879
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: it is to actually get good at, you know, being

880
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: a white tail hunter. And even if you do get

881
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: to like some level like that, how often you get

882
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: your ass handed to you and realize, like, man, as

883
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: good as you can be, you could be so much better.

884
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 1: It's just it's I think that's just amazing. So here's

885
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: a question whether it be like in your research for

886
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: this or in conversations with these people, or maybe anywhere else.

887
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: Did you ever them on any kind of book recommendations

888
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: or resource recommendations or I don't know, for people that

889
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 1: want to go deeper into this kind of stuff, for

890
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 1: people who realize now that there's um something to better

891
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: understanding dear not just you know what trails they take,

892
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 1: but actually how they function and flourish. Do you have

893
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: any recommendations for where people can go to get more

894
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: of this kind of stuff after they listen to the

895
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 1: series or books or anything like that. Uh, book wise,

896
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. I actually I'm kind of kicking around

897
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 1: writing one myself because I think I think there's like

898
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,919
Speaker 1: a there's probably a gap in the white tie world there,

899
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: and I think it would be pretty cool to to

900
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: dig into this stuff because you know, you know how

901
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: this is if you if you're gonna interview somebody who's

902
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: a scientist or wildlife researcher, you're gonna read some of

903
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: their papers, right, and and you know, research papers are

904
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: pretty dry there. You know, I know, a guy like

905
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 1: you loves them because you're wired kind of weird like

906
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: most people probably don't. And but when you when you

907
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: start reading them, even if you just read the abstract

908
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: from each of these papers. You're like, man, this is

909
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Like in a way, they just get to

910
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: ask a question that they're curious about, and if they

911
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: can get the funding to do it, if they get

912
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: a grant or they can get some resources, they can

913
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: go out and design experiments to figure it out. Like

914
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: that's cool. Like we can't we can't do that, Like

915
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: I can't you know, Andy May can't go you know

916
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna I'm gonna figure this thing out with

917
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: these wild deer in that kind of way that he

918
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 1: can do it in his own way and he's gonna

919
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: he's gonna learn something. But they have the opportunity, these

920
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: researchers have this opportunity to do something that's so cool,

921
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 1: and I just I think I don't know. So that's

922
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 1: a really dumb answer to your question. If you really

923
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: wanted to, you know, read about this stuff. It's mostly

924
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: in the research papers, and you know a lot of

925
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: a lot of companies, you know, meetia or does a

926
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,439
Speaker 1: good job at this is. If there's something really cool

927
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: that comes out, there'll be an article about it that

928
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 1: sort of bridges the gap between the academia and the

929
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: in the that that style of writing versus you know

930
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: what we typically read in the hunting space, which is

931
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: a different it's a different delivery system, you know. Yeah, man, Well,

932
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: I think this is a good call to action for you.

933
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: You should write that book. I might. I might. I

934
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: thought about it a lot as I was sort of

935
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 1: sort of pulling everything together for this series. I think

936
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: there's I think there's sort of a gap in the

937
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 1: in the content space for that. Well, here's the thing is,

938
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 1: is you just pointed out the big um like problem

939
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: with most of this writing about this stuff is that

940
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to digest. It's usually scientific papers, it's

941
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: usually pretty boring. But if you could somehow convey the

942
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: science in like a fascinating fun way, like to get

943
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: part of a journey, tell hunting stories, take him on

944
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: a trip while they learn about this kind of stuff,

945
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: like all of a sudden, it is a lot more

946
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: palatable and people actually, you know, be able to hold

947
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: onto that information in their minds when it's tied into

948
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 1: a larger interesting narrative. There's a there's a hell of

949
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 1: a book right there. I'm not I'm not going to

950
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,240
Speaker 1: call DIBs on it, So you run with it, buddy,

951
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 1: you know, I might. I mean, I think you could

952
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,399
Speaker 1: do it in a style, um you had you had

953
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: the guy who wrote The Comfort Crisis on right, what

954
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: was his name, Michael Michael Easter Easter Uh that you know,

955
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 1: that book is a really good example what we're talking about,

956
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 1: you know, I mean if you his journey to to

957
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: get in shape and learn about the outdoors and you know,

958
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: tie himself to nature. He did a really good job of,

959
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: you know, blending that experience of that caribou hunt with

960
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: Donny Vincent with just real research into what makes us

961
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: happy and healthy. And I think I think that style

962
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: is is you know, it's pretty cool, and I think

963
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,919
Speaker 1: you could do that with this this topic. Probably. Yeah,

964
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: that's my my favorite kind of book and and the

965
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 1: kind of book I guess I want to write too,

966
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: is like where you combine that you learned something while

967
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: also going on an interesting journey or doing something interesting

968
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,399
Speaker 1: along the way, makes it just so much more easy

969
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: to consume it. You want to consume it, then, um, well,

970
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 1: until you write that book, I do have a couple

971
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: of recommendations that can to mind, um, for people that

972
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,800
Speaker 1: want to read more on this. There's a very interesting

973
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: book called white Tail Tracks. This is by Valarious Geist,

974
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 1: who is like the o G of science in the

975
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 1: world of ungulates. Um. He recently passed away. But white

976
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: Tail Tracks dives into like the evolutionary history of white

977
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: tails and kind of their impact on the North American

978
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: ecosystem and where we are today. Super interesting stuff, cover

979
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: some of like the biology and how they are, how

980
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: they are and why they are how they are. That's

981
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: a pretty interesting one. Um. There's one called deer Land

982
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: by al kim Brone. This came out like right when

983
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 1: I started Weird Hunt um, and so this one kind

984
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,800
Speaker 1: of covers the science of white tails, but then also

985
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: like the impact that white tails have on um, the

986
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 1: natural world, I guess, and kind of also cultural impact

987
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,240
Speaker 1: as well in America. So that one's kind of interesting.

988
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 1: It's it touches on some of this stuff. Um. And

989
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: then one called Heart and Blood by Richard Nelson. In

990
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: this one covers some of the same stuff, a couple

991
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 1: of chapters around the science and biology of deer, and

992
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 1: then it goes into more of like the cultural integration

993
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: of deer into our world, into you know, how we

994
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: interact with them. And so it's a little above and beyond.

995
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 1: But but again another pretty interesting one that covers on

996
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: some of this stuff. Those are the first three that

997
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: came to mind without looking at my bookshelf. Um, but yeah,

998
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: it's it's good stuff man recommendations. Yeah, yeah, check those out.

999
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 1: I guess is there anything else, Tony, Like, is there

1000
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: anything else that we need to know or that we

1001
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 1: should chat about before we just dive in over this

1002
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 1: next month and get right into it. Uh? I think

1003
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: I think it's just worth thinking about this stuff with

1004
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 1: an open mind. Kind of a circle back right to

1005
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: you know what you started started this podcast talking about, Like,

1006
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: you know, maybe people aren't that interested in it, or

1007
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 1: maybe they don't they're not making the connection that these

1008
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 1: kind of interviews will help them become a better hunter.

1009
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: But I just firmly believe they do. Like I really

1010
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: believe that if you take in this information, partially because

1011
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: so much of it is like, you know, ubiquitous across

1012
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: the space. Right Like, if you if you learn how

1013
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: a dear sees, like how their vision really works, it

1014
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you hunt in you know, southern Alabama

1015
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 1: or up in Canada. You know, like, it doesn't it

1016
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 1: doesn't matter the same thing if you if you really

1017
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: understand in you know, why a white tail might feed

1018
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 1: on this type of brows at this time of year,

1019
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: or how they use their nose to find food. It

1020
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: really doesn't matter where you hunt, like, that's that's applicable

1021
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 1: to you as long as you're just hunting deer. And

1022
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 1: so I think I think in some ways this science

1023
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: it's pretty neat in that aspect because we we tend

1024
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: to you know, if you interview somebody who's just a

1025
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 1: stone cold killer from somewhere, you know, they might be

1026
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: able to go to a bunch of different places and

1027
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: do it, but they're rooted somewhere, And so there's always

1028
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: somebody who's like, yeah, but here in Florida, he couldn't

1029
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 1: do that, you know, or where I hunt, that's just

1030
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 1: not gonna fly. We always have that sort of stigma

1031
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: attached to us as hunters, like no matter how accomplished

1032
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,479
Speaker 1: you get, but some of this stuff just it doesn't matter.

1033
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 1: It's universal. It's very true. Yeah, one last question for you. Usually,

1034
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 1: historically when you have filled in for me on the

1035
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: main Wire Dump pod cast, you usually start every episode

1036
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 1: talking some kind of shit about me and make enough

1037
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,760
Speaker 1: weird destinations that I might be at. The big question

1038
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 1: I have is does that continue even when I allow

1039
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: you to spearhead a whole series like this? Do you

1040
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: still bite the hand that feeds you? First Off, First off,

1041
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: I'm a meat eator full timer, so we're equals now, Mark,

1042
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: So nobody's feeding anybody. Uh. Secondly, I'm not making up anything.

1043
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 1: I just tell the people what you tell me, you

1044
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: and you and Spencer's little adventures, and I just let

1045
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 1: them know why they have me for the week. And

1046
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 1: so it's safe to say if I'm filling in for

1047
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:44,399
Speaker 1: your podcast, it's because you're off doing something that might

1048
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 1: intrigue people, and I just let them know, just you know, casual.

1049
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 1: So thanks for that. Uh. You know, I got one

1050
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: other questions for you, just in case for people that

1051
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: are listening to this, but if they have not been

1052
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: tuning into recent episodes of Foundations, can you give me

1053
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: a little update on what's been going on recently with

1054
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: your Foundation series and what we can look forward to.

1055
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 1: Is there anything that folks you know about? Yeah? Uh,

1056
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 1: so we are. We are at the end of year one,

1057
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: and Year one's goal was just kind of as as

1058
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: much as possible, take a chronological look at what we

1059
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: should be doing as hunters to try to be successful.

1060
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: So you know, should you be scouting this way at

1061
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: this time of the year, or should you be you know,

1062
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: hunting staging areas at this time of year, or how

1063
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: should you be looking at winter scouting? And very kind

1064
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: of you know, useful that way, like in the moment, useful,

1065
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: I guess, I would say, but we've wrapped that up.

1066
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: And what that project is so weird for me is

1067
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: because I view it like with a little bit of

1068
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: an existential dread, because is I'm like, I don't I

1069
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: don't know if I have anything left to say. Sometimes,

1070
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 1: you know, like it's the same thing when you're when

1071
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: you've written hundreds and hundreds of articles, you're like, how

1072
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: do I write about the rut again? And you know

1073
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: that found those foundations scripts are pretty heavy lift, especially

1074
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: after you get to a year. But I realized how

1075
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: much stuff I had not written about, or you know,

1076
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: how how many things I hadn't recorded, And so year

1077
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 1: two is going to be different. It won't be it'll

1078
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: be tied loosely into some you know, chronological stuff. You know,

1079
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm not going to talk about Winner Scouting

1080
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: in August, you know, but it's going to be more

1081
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: one off concepts of like, you know, everything from you know,

1082
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: self reflection to blood trailing to you know, target practice

1083
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: to why you should think about you know, maybe this

1084
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: piece of gear or what what you should think about

1085
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: with white tail fawns when they're doing this or something like,

1086
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: just sort of a different approach than the last year.

1087
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 1: And they've been they've been pretty fun to write, man,

1088
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: Like it's it sort of feels a little bit freeing

1089
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: to not be locked into the chronological you know, I

1090
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: gotta go out and do this this week type of thing.

1091
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: And so I hope people like them because I'm enjoying

1092
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 1: putting them together and they're they're they're gonna have a

1093
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: different feel to some extent. Man, I love the format.

1094
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: I mean, so I'm biased, right since I'm a little

1095
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: bit of a part of it, but I just love

1096
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: it's it's bite size and it's concentrated. It's like instead

1097
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: of drinking I don't like a gal on, a gatorade

1098
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: or something, I'm just taking like the energy shot and

1099
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: it's nothing but the good stuff. It's not an hour

1100
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: and a half of Mark rambling kind of on and

1101
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: sometimes we're talking about interesting stuff and sometimes I'm talking

1102
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: about babysitting or taking care of kids on my wife's gone. No,

1103
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: it's just like twenty minutes or fifteen minutes of this

1104
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 1: one really interesting set of insights from you. Um, I

1105
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm I'm too busy to listen to podcast

1106
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 1: most of the time, or if I when I have

1107
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: free time, I'm not usually listening to them. But those

1108
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: are ones that I'm actually you know able and interested

1109
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 1: in to to digest because of that format. So I

1110
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: guess what I'm trying to say is keep up the

1111
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: good work, buddy. Thanks man. Yeah, I'm I'm excited for

1112
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: this second year there. The stuff that I've already written

1113
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: and put together for it is honestly, people just have

1114
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: to listen. But it's it's stuff that I've never it's

1115
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: topics I've never really approached in the white tail space,

1116
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 1: and I'm having fun with that. I Mean, I think,

1117
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: I think, and maybe this is this is probably so weird,

1118
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 1: but I kind of think that's what really need about

1119
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: podcasts over some of the other mediums we work in,

1120
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 1: is because yeah, okay, you know you've got five episodes

1121
01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 1: in the can dedicated to white tails. But there's so

1122
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: much that comes into a podcast and a good conversation

1123
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 1: that's really not like here's how the audience is going

1124
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: to kill their deer, you know, like there's there's so

1125
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: much more to it, and and these Foundations episodes, I

1126
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: realize how much like my personal life is tied to

1127
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 1: my thinking of white tails. Even though like if you

1128
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: put it on paper, you're like, oh, I'm gonna talk

1129
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 1: about this topic this week. People would be like that

1130
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with white tails. But if you

1131
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: have the time to explain yourself and get into it, yeah,

1132
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 1: it actually does. And I think it just gives us

1133
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 1: a chance to talk about something that you're probably just

1134
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 1: not really going to find anywhere else in all the

1135
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: white tail content space. And I love that opportunity. Yeah,

1136
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: you can make a good point. I mean, some of

1137
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 1: these topics they would never get approved as an article

1138
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: that some company would pay for, right, They're never gonna

1139
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 1: You're not gonna be able to get production and make

1140
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 1: a video about something like this. But we really have

1141
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 1: zero over site on what we can talk about in

1142
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: the podcast, Like we can do whatever you want here,

1143
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 1: and that is a freeing thing Like that is a

1144
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 1: pretty cool freedom to have to explore these things that

1145
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: that should be explored but maybe aren't clicky enough to

1146
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 1: get love elsewhere. So that's a good point. It's interesting.

1147
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:24,439
Speaker 1: It really makes you aware of how we approached white

1148
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: tail content for a long time. You know, like when

1149
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 1: I when I started out, you know, it was it

1150
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 1: was primarily magazines, right, and it was like you were

1151
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: you wanted the assignments, You're going to take them, but

1152
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're like writing, you know, how to

1153
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: kill a white tail over water, And it's like you

1154
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 1: could go back, you know, when I was at like

1155
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: bow Hunter magazine or or Peterson's bow Hunting for example.

1156
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: You know, I could look in the archives and see

1157
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: articles about that from one and you're like, I feel

1158
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 1: like it feels weird, right, you know what I mean.

1159
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: There's a new take on it and you can say

1160
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 1: your own thing and your own voice and and it's different,

1161
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: but you're still you still feel like you're just plugged

1162
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 1: into that formula and this is not that. Yeah, yeah,

1163
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 1: pretty cool stuff. Well I think, uh, I think I'm

1164
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: just ready to get into it. I almost wish that

1165
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: we could have the first episode today, so we could

1166
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: listen to this and then dive right into it. But

1167
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 1: I want to make everybody wait a week until we

1168
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: get to the first one. What is the first one, Tony?

1169
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 1: Who are we gonna hear from first? I think it's

1170
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: gonna be Bradly Cohen first on Dear Vision. Sweet all right, man, well,

1171
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 1: I appreciate you taking the time to do this, to

1172
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 1: to dive so deep into these topics and to put

1173
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: together a really good looking schedule for the next five weeks.

1174
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 1: I'm personally excited, and I hope other people are too. Yeah, man,

1175
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 1: I hope they enjoy it. I I think they will.

1176
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 1: All right, And that's it for us today. Thanks for

1177
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 1: tuning in as we start to kind of perculate and

1178
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 1: get excited about this topic of white tail science in biology.

1179
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: I hope you guys are interested in what's ahead of us.

1180
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: I hope you will tune in over the coming weeks

1181
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: as we get to explore these topics that Tony teed

1182
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: up for us. I'm excited. It's gonna be a great

1183
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:14,919
Speaker 1: thing for us to dive into here as we get

1184
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 1: the early summertime period set up. And uh, I appreciate

1185
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: you being here with us, so until next time, thank

1186
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 1: you for listening. Don't believe a thing Tony tells you

1187
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 1: about what I'm doing when he pitches you on at

1188
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: the beginning of his episodes, And until next time, thanks

1189
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: for listening and stay wired to Hun