1
00:00:15,304 --> 00:00:28,744
Speaker 1: Pushkin m Hi, Joel. I was about to write something

2
00:00:28,784 --> 00:00:31,384
Speaker 1: that involved you. I figured it's audio. I'll just ask

3
00:00:31,424 --> 00:00:36,104
Speaker 1: you this, of course, is my mom Rosalin les Chuck. Now,

4
00:00:36,344 --> 00:00:38,704
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies when I was a kid, you

5
00:00:38,784 --> 00:00:43,344
Speaker 1: owned a business called I Believe Plants Alive. That's correct.

6
00:00:43,744 --> 00:00:47,744
Speaker 1: It was like early seventies. I would take cuttings from

7
00:00:47,744 --> 00:00:50,944
Speaker 1: plants and start new plants, and I grew them and

8
00:00:51,064 --> 00:00:53,464
Speaker 1: then we sold them. Who did you sell to them?

9
00:00:53,504 --> 00:00:57,384
Speaker 1: What did you sell them? We sold to plant parties

10
00:00:57,464 --> 00:01:03,064
Speaker 1: like tupperware parties. We would bring the plants and the accouterments,

11
00:01:03,104 --> 00:01:06,304
Speaker 1: you know, like those hanging macromay things. In those years,

12
00:01:06,464 --> 00:01:08,824
Speaker 1: can we so fertilizer in all kinds of stuff? So

13
00:01:08,864 --> 00:01:13,024
Speaker 1: we would bring the plants to somebody's house who was

14
00:01:13,064 --> 00:01:15,104
Speaker 1: willing to have a party. Was there a lot of

15
00:01:15,184 --> 00:01:20,184
Speaker 1: drinking at these parties? Um, whatever the host wanted to serve. Really,

16
00:01:20,504 --> 00:01:26,104
Speaker 1: is that your way of saying marijuana? I don't remember. Yes,

17
00:01:27,184 --> 00:01:32,064
Speaker 1: possibly it helped us sell more plants. I'm just sure.

18
00:01:33,504 --> 00:01:35,544
Speaker 1: We had a station wagon instead of a cool car,

19
00:01:35,824 --> 00:01:39,184
Speaker 1: just so you could transfer. We did, that's very true.

20
00:01:39,464 --> 00:01:45,504
Speaker 1: And it always had leaves in it. Some marijuana butts

21
00:01:47,184 --> 00:01:49,064
Speaker 1: and the people you sold it pas were looking for

22
00:01:49,344 --> 00:01:54,904
Speaker 1: pretty ferns. Pretty ferns, No, we so some nice excitic

23
00:01:54,984 --> 00:02:01,184
Speaker 1: plants too, Were ferns? Its ferns a bad word in

24
00:02:01,224 --> 00:02:04,144
Speaker 1: the plant world. I didn't no idea pretty common, I mean,

25
00:02:04,224 --> 00:02:07,504
Speaker 1: you know, were so some interesting plants? Do you know?

26
00:02:07,624 --> 00:02:10,464
Speaker 1: Plant collecting I just found out over the last few

27
00:02:10,544 --> 00:02:13,464
Speaker 1: years has become a very guy thing. There are these

28
00:02:13,464 --> 00:02:18,344
Speaker 1: people called plant daddies who are influencers. They're plant fluencers

29
00:02:18,384 --> 00:02:21,504
Speaker 1: on like Instagram and TikTok. Way, I'm gonna show you

30
00:02:21,624 --> 00:02:24,024
Speaker 1: an instagram from one of these plant daddies. You can

31
00:02:24,064 --> 00:02:27,984
Speaker 1: tell me you think, wow, nice, Well he's got ferns.

32
00:02:30,184 --> 00:02:33,144
Speaker 1: These guys post naked with their plants. Oh my god,

33
00:02:33,344 --> 00:02:37,384
Speaker 1: how bizarre. There's a subcategory within plant daddies, which is

34
00:02:37,424 --> 00:02:41,944
Speaker 1: guys who collect these obscure carnivorous plants, particularly this kind

35
00:02:42,024 --> 00:02:45,544
Speaker 1: called pitcher plants or nepenthes, which are these giant like

36
00:02:45,904 --> 00:02:51,944
Speaker 1: cups where insects fall into. Gross. Yeah, that's interesting. They

37
00:02:52,024 --> 00:02:54,784
Speaker 1: looked like they're from another planet. They're very colorful, and

38
00:02:54,824 --> 00:02:57,584
Speaker 1: they have like teeth, and more men are into these

39
00:02:57,664 --> 00:03:00,864
Speaker 1: than women. Yeah, it gets super nerdy, and they're hard

40
00:03:00,944 --> 00:03:04,384
Speaker 1: to get and they're collectible and expensive. Is this what

41
00:03:04,504 --> 00:03:08,504
Speaker 1: your podcasts about? No, it's about this. I want to

42
00:03:08,544 --> 00:03:10,984
Speaker 1: run it for you. You're a listener. Interesting. I never

43
00:03:11,024 --> 00:03:14,424
Speaker 1: heard of that. All right, Love you, honey, Bye bye.

44
00:03:21,904 --> 00:03:25,104
Speaker 1: Writing is hard. Who's got that kind of time when

45
00:03:25,144 --> 00:03:28,704
Speaker 1: you're already busy trying to be John Stein until it

46
00:03:28,704 --> 00:03:31,984
Speaker 1: turns on a mic? Maybe twiddles and knob because a

47
00:03:32,144 --> 00:03:37,544
Speaker 1: journalist rand has got in that jewel jib auditory single story.

48
00:03:37,664 --> 00:03:44,584
Speaker 1: Just listen to smart people speaking conversation. Filming information is

49
00:03:44,624 --> 00:03:58,584
Speaker 1: a story within the burgeoning world of plant daddies, who

50
00:03:58,584 --> 00:04:02,024
Speaker 1: are of course male plant fluencers. There are subset of

51
00:04:02,104 --> 00:04:06,184
Speaker 1: dudes who collect carnivorous plants, and the big swinging dicks

52
00:04:06,264 --> 00:04:09,424
Speaker 1: of a carnivorous plant world grow in a pen, these

53
00:04:09,824 --> 00:04:13,304
Speaker 1: which are the biggest, scariest, most alien looking of all

54
00:04:13,344 --> 00:04:17,464
Speaker 1: the insect eaters. Brian Howie wrote an article in Wired

55
00:04:17,504 --> 00:04:23,584
Speaker 1: magazine about in the Penthes collector who went way too far. Bryan,

56
00:04:23,664 --> 00:04:26,184
Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing this. Thanks for having me.

57
00:04:26,624 --> 00:04:28,984
Speaker 1: I knew about venus flytraps the way I know about

58
00:04:29,024 --> 00:04:31,904
Speaker 1: way too much of my knowledge, which is from musical theater. So,

59
00:04:32,064 --> 00:04:35,224
Speaker 1: Nepenthes are a type of carnivorous plants, or they're all

60
00:04:35,384 --> 00:04:40,024
Speaker 1: called nepenthes. They're a genus of carnivorous plant. But this

61
00:04:40,064 --> 00:04:41,784
Speaker 1: is the one people go crazy for. And they're called

62
00:04:41,784 --> 00:04:44,344
Speaker 1: pitcher plants because they have what looks like a big

63
00:04:44,424 --> 00:04:48,304
Speaker 1: cup on them that catches insects. And even these things

64
00:04:48,304 --> 00:04:50,144
Speaker 1: can be like the size of your head, right, and

65
00:04:50,144 --> 00:04:53,224
Speaker 1: they can catch rodents, that's right. Yeah, there are a

66
00:04:53,304 --> 00:04:56,224
Speaker 1: few different species that have been observed to capture and

67
00:04:56,264 --> 00:04:59,024
Speaker 1: digest rodent prey on the wild. And they also attract

68
00:04:59,024 --> 00:05:02,024
Speaker 1: insects by just being like really compelling looking like they

69
00:05:02,024 --> 00:05:07,584
Speaker 1: have these kind of fantastical Martian looking colors. They look otherworldly, right, Yeah,

70
00:05:07,624 --> 00:05:10,544
Speaker 1: they do look very bizarre are And they've recently discovered

71
00:05:10,544 --> 00:05:13,104
Speaker 1: that they give off a UV light that only insects

72
00:05:13,104 --> 00:05:16,544
Speaker 1: can see that makes them shine blue. Wow. Okay, people

73
00:05:16,544 --> 00:05:20,544
Speaker 1: are collecting these things now. Yeah. Absolutely, They've gotten really

74
00:05:20,584 --> 00:05:24,984
Speaker 1: popular over the past twenty years with social media and

75
00:05:25,304 --> 00:05:29,744
Speaker 1: combined with millennials becoming really obsessed with house plants, they've

76
00:05:29,784 --> 00:05:34,304
Speaker 1: just blown up recently. Like nipenthees, collectors have a reputation

77
00:05:34,344 --> 00:05:36,624
Speaker 1: in the carnivorous plant world of being sort of like

78
00:05:36,664 --> 00:05:40,824
Speaker 1: the snobs, like the elitist carnivorous plant collectors. And you

79
00:05:40,864 --> 00:05:43,944
Speaker 1: know that's because of how much work goes in work

80
00:05:44,024 --> 00:05:46,544
Speaker 1: and money goes into growing these things. Is it like

81
00:05:46,584 --> 00:05:50,224
Speaker 1: a stoner heavy metal guy thing. I mean, there are

82
00:05:50,264 --> 00:05:52,864
Speaker 1: definitely your stoner heavy metal heads who are into this,

83
00:05:52,984 --> 00:05:57,584
Speaker 1: but I'd say it's mostly a nerdy like science guy thing.

84
00:05:58,104 --> 00:06:00,144
Speaker 1: Oh like a guy who as a kid collected like

85
00:06:00,304 --> 00:06:04,344
Speaker 1: lizards or something. Totally. How much did these things cost?

86
00:06:04,584 --> 00:06:07,744
Speaker 1: It really depends on the plant. You can pick up,

87
00:06:08,024 --> 00:06:12,064
Speaker 1: you know, a pretty gene eric or commonly available nepenthees

88
00:06:12,144 --> 00:06:15,864
Speaker 1: plant for ten bucks. But I mean I recently saw

89
00:06:15,944 --> 00:06:19,984
Speaker 1: a specific cultivar that's really popular in nepenthees circles. They

90
00:06:19,984 --> 00:06:22,504
Speaker 1: were selling for four or five thousand bucks a pop.

91
00:06:22,864 --> 00:06:25,144
Speaker 1: And what do you feed these things? A lot of

92
00:06:25,184 --> 00:06:30,264
Speaker 1: people will feed them fertilizer pellets, or will buy freeze

93
00:06:30,344 --> 00:06:34,344
Speaker 1: dried worms and tweezer them into the plants and feed

94
00:06:34,344 --> 00:06:36,704
Speaker 1: each picture one at a time. They have these routines.

95
00:06:36,744 --> 00:06:40,104
Speaker 1: They're very they treat them like pets. And you wrote

96
00:06:40,104 --> 00:06:43,824
Speaker 1: about this guy named Matt Orchard who collects these things.

97
00:06:43,944 --> 00:06:45,784
Speaker 1: But is that his real name or is that like

98
00:06:45,824 --> 00:06:48,784
Speaker 1: his plant growing name, Matt Orchards, Like, is this world

99
00:06:48,824 --> 00:06:51,784
Speaker 1: like hip hop where you get a name. Some people

100
00:06:51,824 --> 00:06:54,664
Speaker 1: do have names, they have their Instagram handles that they

101
00:06:54,704 --> 00:06:57,664
Speaker 1: go buy. But Matt Orchard is Matt's real name. Yeah,

102
00:06:57,744 --> 00:07:01,464
Speaker 1: So this guy, Matt Orchard, he's a big collector. What's

103
00:07:01,464 --> 00:07:05,584
Speaker 1: he like? So Matt, much like me, he had never

104
00:07:06,024 --> 00:07:09,984
Speaker 1: actually given two ships about plants. I curse on that show.

105
00:07:10,184 --> 00:07:12,624
Speaker 1: If you don't curse about plants, then you're not a

106
00:07:12,624 --> 00:07:16,624
Speaker 1: cool plant collector. I know you people, you have filthy mouth.

107
00:07:16,784 --> 00:07:19,984
Speaker 1: So Matt didn't give two ships about plants. But he's

108
00:07:19,984 --> 00:07:23,264
Speaker 1: in college in Portland. He goes to a farmer's market

109
00:07:23,304 --> 00:07:26,304
Speaker 1: with a friend, and his friend buys one of these

110
00:07:26,424 --> 00:07:30,584
Speaker 1: napenthes pitcher plants from a local vendor, and Matt all

111
00:07:30,624 --> 00:07:32,904
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it was like the light shone down

112
00:07:33,024 --> 00:07:36,184
Speaker 1: from the heavens onto this plant, and he finally realized

113
00:07:36,224 --> 00:07:39,704
Speaker 1: how beautiful the plant world was. Right, And so he

114
00:07:39,744 --> 00:07:42,544
Speaker 1: gets one, and then he gets two, and then he

115
00:07:42,584 --> 00:07:47,024
Speaker 1: gets three, and over the course of two years, he

116
00:07:47,184 --> 00:07:49,824
Speaker 1: goes from like I don't care about plants to my

117
00:07:50,184 --> 00:07:56,424
Speaker 1: entire life revolves around napenthees. He transforms his entire apartment

118
00:07:56,984 --> 00:08:01,224
Speaker 1: into basically a grow chamber. He's got fluorescent lights hanging

119
00:08:01,344 --> 00:08:04,664
Speaker 1: from the ceiling. He eventually buys like a grow tint

120
00:08:04,744 --> 00:08:09,584
Speaker 1: that people who grow weed in their house use, fogger

121
00:08:10,144 --> 00:08:13,744
Speaker 1: that he buys that actually ends up filling his entire

122
00:08:13,824 --> 00:08:16,624
Speaker 1: apartment with miss like he just moved into the jungle

123
00:08:16,744 --> 00:08:19,424
Speaker 1: or something. And do people just think he's a freak,

124
00:08:19,464 --> 00:08:21,104
Speaker 1: Like has he lost all his friends and he's just

125
00:08:21,144 --> 00:08:23,944
Speaker 1: hanging out with his plant friends. Well, no, because there

126
00:08:23,944 --> 00:08:25,944
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who are really into this,

127
00:08:25,984 --> 00:08:28,984
Speaker 1: and he actually ends up starting his own carnivorous plant

128
00:08:29,064 --> 00:08:32,144
Speaker 1: club in Portland, and you know it is getting coffee

129
00:08:32,184 --> 00:08:34,904
Speaker 1: with the old timers who were telling war stories about

130
00:08:34,904 --> 00:08:37,384
Speaker 1: how back in my day I had to mail order

131
00:08:37,464 --> 00:08:40,864
Speaker 1: the plants and we didn't have nepenthes raja in our

132
00:08:40,984 --> 00:08:46,784
Speaker 1: collections now Enthes raja. Nepenthes raja is one of those

133
00:08:47,024 --> 00:08:50,104
Speaker 1: picture plants that makes pitches the size of a human head. Right,

134
00:08:50,104 --> 00:08:52,784
Speaker 1: they've been literally like how big is this whole plant?

135
00:08:52,944 --> 00:08:56,024
Speaker 1: The plants themselves, you know, they can be several feet across.

136
00:08:56,544 --> 00:08:59,704
Speaker 1: They've been observed in the wild to capture and digest

137
00:08:59,824 --> 00:09:04,504
Speaker 1: rodents and small birds. There's sort of a prize possession

138
00:09:04,784 --> 00:09:07,464
Speaker 1: one of these prize species that people try to grow.

139
00:09:07,424 --> 00:09:10,544
Speaker 1: They're also incredibly rare in the wild and protected as well.

140
00:09:10,984 --> 00:09:13,944
Speaker 1: And he's got one. He does end up getting one.

141
00:09:13,984 --> 00:09:16,424
Speaker 1: He ends up buying several of them. Actually, Okay, so

142
00:09:16,464 --> 00:09:20,344
Speaker 1: he's got all these new nepenthee friends and he's got

143
00:09:20,384 --> 00:09:22,624
Speaker 1: all these plants in his house, like he's spending all

144
00:09:22,704 --> 00:09:26,464
Speaker 1: his money on this isume. Yeah, it gets to the

145
00:09:26,584 --> 00:09:29,664
Speaker 1: point where his girlfriend's having to front his rent money

146
00:09:29,704 --> 00:09:32,504
Speaker 1: to him at the end of the month. She's asking

147
00:09:32,584 --> 00:09:35,064
Speaker 1: him not to buy plants, but boxes full of plants

148
00:09:35,144 --> 00:09:37,064
Speaker 1: keep showing up in the mail. It's, you know, it

149
00:09:37,104 --> 00:09:41,664
Speaker 1: starts to put strain on their relationship. He's like an addict. Yeah,

150
00:09:41,704 --> 00:09:43,664
Speaker 1: that's how he would describe it. And that's how I

151
00:09:43,664 --> 00:09:46,864
Speaker 1: would describe it too. He was absolutely addicted to nepanthes.

152
00:09:47,704 --> 00:09:50,824
Speaker 1: So he's got these other friends in Portland that he

153
00:09:50,904 --> 00:09:54,864
Speaker 1: meets at this bar regularly, which is where he meets

154
00:09:55,464 --> 00:09:58,944
Speaker 1: a newbie collector named Jimmy. Who is he? What is

155
00:09:58,984 --> 00:10:03,904
Speaker 1: he like? Jimmy shows up at one of these carnivorous

156
00:10:03,984 --> 00:10:07,984
Speaker 1: plant club meetings that Matt has been putting on, and

157
00:10:08,744 --> 00:10:13,384
Speaker 1: he he's poking around, he's asking questions, he's staring at

158
00:10:13,424 --> 00:10:19,584
Speaker 1: the plants, and that immediately thinks that he is a thief, right,

159
00:10:19,624 --> 00:10:22,384
Speaker 1: because there are so many people in the npenthees world

160
00:10:22,864 --> 00:10:26,064
Speaker 1: who are willing to break into each other's greenhouses and

161
00:10:26,144 --> 00:10:30,224
Speaker 1: steel plants to get these enviable species. So Matt thinks

162
00:10:30,224 --> 00:10:35,104
Speaker 1: he's out to steal plants. But Jimmy keeps asking questions,

163
00:10:35,184 --> 00:10:38,384
Speaker 1: and these are questions that typically come from someone who's

164
00:10:38,424 --> 00:10:42,224
Speaker 1: never grown the plants before, which makes Matt think that

165
00:10:42,304 --> 00:10:45,184
Speaker 1: maybe Jimmy is just a nube. And so Matt takes

166
00:10:45,224 --> 00:10:47,304
Speaker 1: him under his wing and starts to show him the

167
00:10:47,344 --> 00:10:50,464
Speaker 1: ropes about napenthe's collecting. Brings Jimmy to his apartment with

168
00:10:50,504 --> 00:10:53,744
Speaker 1: other collectors and shows off his collection. And I'm surprised

169
00:10:53,784 --> 00:10:57,544
Speaker 1: that like this nerdy group of guys in stem fields

170
00:10:57,824 --> 00:11:00,744
Speaker 1: rob each other like that doesn't that doesn't seem right.

171
00:11:01,464 --> 00:11:04,744
Speaker 1: You know, not everybody in this is from the stem field.

172
00:11:04,784 --> 00:11:07,824
Speaker 1: But I think you can also attribute some of this

173
00:11:07,944 --> 00:11:11,784
Speaker 1: to the collector maye that you see with collectors and

174
00:11:11,904 --> 00:11:15,064
Speaker 1: all sorts of different hobbies. Things can get dark when

175
00:11:15,104 --> 00:11:17,544
Speaker 1: people are obsessed with getting the next one. I mean,

176
00:11:17,584 --> 00:11:20,144
Speaker 1: these are the pokemon of the plant world. You know,

177
00:11:20,184 --> 00:11:23,504
Speaker 1: people are trying to catch them all. Okay, So Matt Orchard,

178
00:11:23,544 --> 00:11:27,384
Speaker 1: who's this Nepenthes plant collector, gets a warning out of

179
00:11:27,384 --> 00:11:29,984
Speaker 1: nowhere from the Fish and Wildly Service saying that one

180
00:11:29,984 --> 00:11:32,784
Speaker 1: of his packages, which had like thirty five plants in it,

181
00:11:33,144 --> 00:11:36,704
Speaker 1: had been seized as it came from Malaysia. So what

182
00:11:36,784 --> 00:11:39,624
Speaker 1: does that warning look like? It's a very official looking

183
00:11:39,704 --> 00:11:44,584
Speaker 1: letter basically says, hey, we have seized all of these plants.

184
00:11:44,984 --> 00:11:48,224
Speaker 1: We think that they've been illegally imported. By the way,

185
00:11:48,424 --> 00:11:51,144
Speaker 1: if you keep doing this, you know, you could face

186
00:11:51,464 --> 00:11:55,024
Speaker 1: finds and felony charges. So does he freak out when

187
00:11:55,024 --> 00:11:57,784
Speaker 1: he gets that a little bit. He's a little nervous,

188
00:11:58,064 --> 00:12:01,664
Speaker 1: But he goes to his fellow collectors, some of whom

189
00:12:01,704 --> 00:12:06,024
Speaker 1: have received similar letters, and they assure him that it's

190
00:12:06,064 --> 00:12:09,544
Speaker 1: no big deal. They say, listen, I've gotten is two.

191
00:12:09,904 --> 00:12:12,184
Speaker 1: That's part of the game. It is a little hard

192
00:12:12,224 --> 00:12:15,264
Speaker 1: to be scared of the US Fish and Wildlife Department.

193
00:12:15,344 --> 00:12:18,864
Speaker 1: It's not like the FBI. No, they're not like the FBI.

194
00:12:18,984 --> 00:12:22,104
Speaker 1: But they are a law enforcement agency and they do

195
00:12:22,344 --> 00:12:26,544
Speaker 1: have the power to arrest you. Matt probably buried the

196
00:12:26,584 --> 00:12:30,064
Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife letter under an enormous pile of unpaid

197
00:12:30,104 --> 00:12:33,024
Speaker 1: electricity bills that he racked up taking care of his plans,

198
00:12:33,944 --> 00:12:36,144
Speaker 1: and then he went off to order some more illegal plants.

199
00:12:37,224 --> 00:12:41,184
Speaker 1: But soon Matt would find himself ensnared in a very

200
00:12:41,224 --> 00:12:45,904
Speaker 1: sticky trap, one that he couldn't climb out of, just

201
00:12:46,024 --> 00:12:48,824
Speaker 1: like the helpless flies he was feeding to his nepenthes.

202
00:12:49,224 --> 00:12:51,784
Speaker 1: But first, our sponsors are going to try and sell

203
00:12:51,824 --> 00:12:54,984
Speaker 1: you some stuff that's made from plants, because I promise

204
00:12:55,064 --> 00:12:59,384
Speaker 1: you this podcast is a lot funnier when you're high.

205
00:13:04,024 --> 00:13:06,744
Speaker 1: Ever since he got the warning letter from Fish and Wildlife,

206
00:13:07,184 --> 00:13:10,224
Speaker 1: Matt knew he was illegally importing endangered plants that were

207
00:13:10,224 --> 00:13:13,984
Speaker 1: poached in the wild, but he didn't stop bordering them.

208
00:13:14,024 --> 00:13:16,264
Speaker 1: I mean, this is really starting to sound like an

209
00:13:16,264 --> 00:13:22,744
Speaker 1: ABC after school special. Okay, So Matt on one morning

210
00:13:23,104 --> 00:13:27,464
Speaker 1: in April twenty sixteen, gets a loud knock at his door. Yeah,

211
00:13:27,624 --> 00:13:30,984
Speaker 1: Jimmy's at his door, Jimmy who's been learning the ropes

212
00:13:31,104 --> 00:13:35,184
Speaker 1: of pitcher plant collecting. Except it's not Jimmy, the plant

213
00:13:35,264 --> 00:13:39,104
Speaker 1: neube collector. Jimmy's wearing a bulletproof vest that says Fish

214
00:13:39,104 --> 00:13:42,544
Speaker 1: and Wildlife Service on it, and Jimmy is actually Special

215
00:13:42,544 --> 00:13:47,984
Speaker 1: Agent Jimmy Barna, who has just ended two year long

216
00:13:48,384 --> 00:13:53,224
Speaker 1: undercover sting of Matt and his illegal pitcher plant collection.

217
00:13:53,504 --> 00:13:55,984
Speaker 1: What happens at that point? Did they just seize all

218
00:13:56,024 --> 00:13:59,064
Speaker 1: his plants or arrest him or what happens? Right? So,

219
00:13:59,544 --> 00:14:05,224
Speaker 1: about a dozen Fish and Wildlife agents for Matt. For Matt, Yeah,

220
00:14:05,264 --> 00:14:09,464
Speaker 1: they stream into his apartment, they raid the play, they

221
00:14:09,504 --> 00:14:12,584
Speaker 1: take all of his plants, they're photographing all of them,

222
00:14:12,624 --> 00:14:16,264
Speaker 1: tearing down all of his grow equipment, putting tags on everything,

223
00:14:16,384 --> 00:14:20,464
Speaker 1: cataloging everything, over the course of something like twelve hours, right,

224
00:14:20,704 --> 00:14:23,824
Speaker 1: and Matt's just sitting on his bed in shock. And

225
00:14:23,864 --> 00:14:26,704
Speaker 1: you have to understand here that at this point, Matt's

226
00:14:26,944 --> 00:14:31,224
Speaker 1: entire life, his ego itself, is wrapped up into this

227
00:14:31,304 --> 00:14:34,624
Speaker 1: collection and he's just watching it being torn down and

228
00:14:34,704 --> 00:14:38,104
Speaker 1: taken away from him. And so while this is happening,

229
00:14:38,104 --> 00:14:41,544
Speaker 1: he's being interviewed by the agents and telling them about,

230
00:14:41,944 --> 00:14:44,784
Speaker 1: you know, how he gets these plants. He thinks that

231
00:14:44,824 --> 00:14:47,824
Speaker 1: they're like looking for money, because they seem to think

232
00:14:47,864 --> 00:14:51,984
Speaker 1: it's part of some bigger operation that he clearly wasn't

233
00:14:51,984 --> 00:14:56,744
Speaker 1: a part of. But simultaneously, in several other places, there

234
00:14:56,784 --> 00:15:00,184
Speaker 1: are other fish and wildlife agents knocking on the doors

235
00:15:00,224 --> 00:15:03,304
Speaker 1: of some of Matt's fellow collectors who he'd done business

236
00:15:03,304 --> 00:15:05,664
Speaker 1: with because they think that this is part of some

237
00:15:05,824 --> 00:15:10,544
Speaker 1: bigger plant smuggling operation. So Jimmy minimistake. Jimmy thought Matt

238
00:15:10,624 --> 00:15:13,664
Speaker 1: was a much bigger like Nepenthes kingpin than he was.

239
00:15:14,624 --> 00:15:18,344
Speaker 1: It seems that way. Yes, what's funny is that right

240
00:15:18,464 --> 00:15:23,584
Speaker 1: before Matt gets busted, there's a local magazine that does

241
00:15:23,624 --> 00:15:28,624
Speaker 1: a story about Jimmy and his efforts to do undercover

242
00:15:28,744 --> 00:15:33,064
Speaker 1: poaching stings. And in this story he says that he's

243
00:15:33,104 --> 00:15:38,424
Speaker 1: currently working on some carnivorous plant poaching operations stings, And

244
00:15:38,504 --> 00:15:42,024
Speaker 1: so had Matt happened to have read this article, he

245
00:15:42,104 --> 00:15:44,384
Speaker 1: might have actually been tipped off as to what was coming.

246
00:15:45,224 --> 00:15:47,304
Speaker 1: This is so bush league. We've done a couple of

247
00:15:47,304 --> 00:15:50,784
Speaker 1: stories about like undercover bus, and you don't do an

248
00:15:50,784 --> 00:15:54,464
Speaker 1: interview with a magazine about how you're doing an undercover

249
00:15:54,504 --> 00:15:57,184
Speaker 1: bus in the middle of your undercover bus. Yeah, no,

250
00:15:57,304 --> 00:16:02,344
Speaker 1: I thought that was pretty funny. Fish and wildlife not impressed.

251
00:16:03,704 --> 00:16:06,344
Speaker 1: Shouldn't they be going after someone bigger than Matt? Like,

252
00:16:06,584 --> 00:16:10,104
Speaker 1: isn't there someone bigger up the chain? Yeah? I mean,

253
00:16:10,144 --> 00:16:14,784
Speaker 1: based on what I found, most of this nepenthees poaching

254
00:16:14,864 --> 00:16:18,264
Speaker 1: pipeline is pretty small time. You know, this is nickel

255
00:16:18,344 --> 00:16:21,464
Speaker 1: and dimes stuff. The problem is is that there really

256
00:16:21,504 --> 00:16:24,504
Speaker 1: are only nickels and dimes left of nepenthees in the wild,

257
00:16:24,544 --> 00:16:27,584
Speaker 1: and a lot of species are There's only a few

258
00:16:27,624 --> 00:16:29,784
Speaker 1: dozen of them known to be left in the wild,

259
00:16:29,864 --> 00:16:32,304
Speaker 1: and so if one poacher goes up and spends a

260
00:16:32,344 --> 00:16:34,864
Speaker 1: couple of hours cutting these plants down, that can be

261
00:16:34,904 --> 00:16:38,224
Speaker 1: a whole species gone like that. And what law was

262
00:16:38,264 --> 00:16:42,264
Speaker 1: Matt actually breaking? Matt was violating the Lacy Act, which

263
00:16:42,304 --> 00:16:47,984
Speaker 1: is basically the United States version of an international agreement

264
00:16:48,064 --> 00:16:51,944
Speaker 1: between a bunch of different countries to cut down on poaching.

265
00:16:52,264 --> 00:16:56,504
Speaker 1: And so basically there's a list that protects species like

266
00:16:56,664 --> 00:17:02,264
Speaker 1: pandas and leopards and orchids and nepenthees. Epenthes raja, which

267
00:17:02,264 --> 00:17:05,144
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier, is on the same level of

268
00:17:05,264 --> 00:17:09,344
Speaker 1: protection as pandas and other critically endangered species. Right and

269
00:17:09,384 --> 00:17:13,024
Speaker 1: so the Lacy Act in the United States enforces this list.

270
00:17:13,624 --> 00:17:15,944
Speaker 1: Did he know this? Like what's going on there? I

271
00:17:15,984 --> 00:17:20,224
Speaker 1: think that Nat had some idea that what he was

272
00:17:20,344 --> 00:17:23,544
Speaker 1: doing was illegal because some of these plants that he's

273
00:17:23,624 --> 00:17:28,184
Speaker 1: buying are coming straight from Indonesia and Malaysia. He starts

274
00:17:28,224 --> 00:17:31,664
Speaker 1: receiving these plant packages. The ones that the FEDS don't

275
00:17:31,704 --> 00:17:36,304
Speaker 1: see is the plants inside of them are tattered, They

276
00:17:36,384 --> 00:17:39,664
Speaker 1: have sunburnt leaves, some of the leaves are ripped off.

277
00:17:39,864 --> 00:17:43,344
Speaker 1: There's like moss and dirt clinging to the roots, and

278
00:17:43,424 --> 00:17:46,624
Speaker 1: that's not typically what you see from plants that are

279
00:17:46,624 --> 00:17:51,544
Speaker 1: coming from reputable nurseries. I think that Nat he eventually

280
00:17:51,624 --> 00:17:55,184
Speaker 1: puts two together and realizes these plants are actually being

281
00:17:55,344 --> 00:17:58,224
Speaker 1: ripped out of the ground and backed up and sent

282
00:17:58,264 --> 00:18:01,944
Speaker 1: to him straight from the jungles of Hindonesia. So the

283
00:18:02,064 --> 00:18:05,064
Speaker 1: legal ones come from nurseries. You can grow them in nurseries.

284
00:18:05,304 --> 00:18:08,464
Speaker 1: They're a little more expensive, and they're very small, and

285
00:18:08,464 --> 00:18:11,624
Speaker 1: these are slow growing plants, so it's very tempting to

286
00:18:11,624 --> 00:18:16,104
Speaker 1: get one from the wild that's fully grown and looks cool. Absolutely, say,

287
00:18:16,704 --> 00:18:20,104
Speaker 1: take Napenthes velosa, for instance. This is one of the

288
00:18:20,184 --> 00:18:23,344
Speaker 1: slower growing plants that grows at very high altitudes. It's

289
00:18:23,384 --> 00:18:26,024
Speaker 1: also one of the most sought after plants in the genus.

290
00:18:26,304 --> 00:18:30,824
Speaker 1: Everyone wants one. But from seed you're looking at anywhere

291
00:18:30,864 --> 00:18:33,944
Speaker 1: from ten to thirty years before it gets to the

292
00:18:34,064 --> 00:18:37,144
Speaker 1: size where you can get a thousand likes on Instagram

293
00:18:37,144 --> 00:18:39,464
Speaker 1: for posting a picture of it. But at the time

294
00:18:39,504 --> 00:18:42,784
Speaker 1: that Matt was collecting them, this wasn't that long ago.

295
00:18:42,864 --> 00:18:47,064
Speaker 1: It was twenty sixteen, but even then it wasn't as

296
00:18:47,144 --> 00:18:51,464
Speaker 1: widely known how imperiled napenthes were in the wild and

297
00:18:51,664 --> 00:18:56,064
Speaker 1: how much collecting was a part of that process. How

298
00:18:56,104 --> 00:19:00,424
Speaker 1: imperiled are they? There was a recent ecological survey conducted

299
00:19:00,424 --> 00:19:04,544
Speaker 1: by a few napenthes experts that found that more than

300
00:19:04,584 --> 00:19:08,624
Speaker 1: a quarter of Napenthees species are threatened by poaching, and

301
00:19:08,664 --> 00:19:11,664
Speaker 1: about thirteen of those species are on the break of extinction.

302
00:19:12,064 --> 00:19:14,744
Speaker 1: A couple of them are already gone. There are two

303
00:19:14,784 --> 00:19:17,944
Speaker 1: species that are suspected to be extinct in the wild,

304
00:19:18,104 --> 00:19:21,104
Speaker 1: and it is believed that they were driven to extinction

305
00:19:21,664 --> 00:19:28,104
Speaker 1: solely by collectors. Okay, so these poachers in Malaysia, You

306
00:19:28,584 --> 00:19:30,704
Speaker 1: went there to go meet some of these guys, right

307
00:19:31,264 --> 00:19:33,744
Speaker 1: I did. I did get to meet one of them. Yeah,

308
00:19:33,984 --> 00:19:36,664
Speaker 1: it was not easy to get there, I zum it wasn't.

309
00:19:36,744 --> 00:19:40,704
Speaker 1: It was about three days of flying. About twelve hours

310
00:19:40,704 --> 00:19:42,184
Speaker 1: of that was spent laying on the floor of the

311
00:19:42,224 --> 00:19:47,264
Speaker 1: Manila Airport. Another day or so was spent driving up

312
00:19:47,304 --> 00:19:51,824
Speaker 1: into the mountains of Borneo and then hike up this

313
00:19:52,024 --> 00:19:54,784
Speaker 1: mountain in the middle of the jungle. How long a

314
00:19:54,864 --> 00:19:58,224
Speaker 1: hike was it? It was a three day hike if

315
00:19:58,224 --> 00:20:01,144
Speaker 1: you were camping right. So it's a day of hiking

316
00:20:01,264 --> 00:20:04,504
Speaker 1: up to a base camp area and then another day

317
00:20:04,584 --> 00:20:07,104
Speaker 1: of hiking to the peak, which is where some of

318
00:20:07,104 --> 00:20:09,784
Speaker 1: the rarest species live. And I was like having to

319
00:20:09,784 --> 00:20:14,784
Speaker 1: take breaks and like collapsing on the ground every few hours.

320
00:20:16,344 --> 00:20:19,344
Speaker 1: Once you get to the top, the mountain gets encircled

321
00:20:19,384 --> 00:20:22,664
Speaker 1: by clouds and so you're basically on this island of

322
00:20:22,864 --> 00:20:25,104
Speaker 1: mountain peaks. The only thing you can see are the

323
00:20:25,144 --> 00:20:28,384
Speaker 1: other peaks that poke above the cloud line and are

324
00:20:28,504 --> 00:20:32,064
Speaker 1: napenthes pitcher plants hanging from all of the branches. Did

325
00:20:32,104 --> 00:20:34,264
Speaker 1: you see signs of poaching even all the way up there?

326
00:20:35,024 --> 00:20:40,504
Speaker 1: We did. Yeah, we found chunks of a Napenthees macrophila

327
00:20:40,664 --> 00:20:44,544
Speaker 1: that had been chopped into pieces, and it was just

328
00:20:44,584 --> 00:20:48,024
Speaker 1: the remainders, the leftovers that the poachers had left behind.

329
00:20:48,064 --> 00:20:51,904
Speaker 1: This was clearly a giant plant that had been chopped

330
00:20:51,944 --> 00:20:55,984
Speaker 1: into pieces and shoved into backpacks the night as they

331
00:20:55,984 --> 00:20:58,504
Speaker 1: tried to get out of there. It was honestly really

332
00:20:58,544 --> 00:21:04,024
Speaker 1: devastating because this species is critically endangered. Did it feel

333
00:21:04,024 --> 00:21:06,904
Speaker 1: like a murder scene a little bit? It definitely hit me.

334
00:21:07,664 --> 00:21:09,504
Speaker 1: It cut me deep to see that. I was I

335
00:21:09,544 --> 00:21:11,864
Speaker 1: was very sad to see that. So then you went

336
00:21:11,904 --> 00:21:15,104
Speaker 1: in to find an actual poacher and you met this guy?

337
00:21:15,304 --> 00:21:19,784
Speaker 1: What was he like? Yeah? So saw Shaw is not

338
00:21:19,864 --> 00:21:22,824
Speaker 1: his real name, you know, he interviewed on the condition

339
00:21:22,864 --> 00:21:25,304
Speaker 1: that we not use his real name. And when you

340
00:21:25,344 --> 00:21:28,104
Speaker 1: meet him, is he what you expect or is he different?

341
00:21:28,264 --> 00:21:32,504
Speaker 1: He was jovial, he was friendly, you know. He offered

342
00:21:32,544 --> 00:21:35,104
Speaker 1: to share his tobacco with me. He offered to buy

343
00:21:35,144 --> 00:21:38,864
Speaker 1: me lunch. He seemed like a pretty nice, straightforward guy

344
00:21:38,864 --> 00:21:41,624
Speaker 1: at me. Etiquette wise, as a reporter, you have to

345
00:21:41,664 --> 00:21:45,544
Speaker 1: buy the poacher launch, not vice versa. Yeah, that's that's

346
00:21:45,584 --> 00:21:47,784
Speaker 1: typically how it is. I ended up buying him lunch.

347
00:21:47,824 --> 00:21:50,824
Speaker 1: Yeah good. I just wanted to make sure, right and

348
00:21:51,024 --> 00:21:53,744
Speaker 1: does he feel bad about poaching or why does he poach?

349
00:21:54,064 --> 00:21:57,704
Speaker 1: Back in twenty fifteen, he had a full time job.

350
00:21:58,224 --> 00:22:00,584
Speaker 1: He was using that to support his family. He has

351
00:22:00,664 --> 00:22:03,424
Speaker 1: multiple kids and a wife. He lives in a small

352
00:22:03,544 --> 00:22:07,704
Speaker 1: village in rural Malaysia. That full time job was enough

353
00:22:07,784 --> 00:22:10,944
Speaker 1: to get by, so they got laid off. Could he

354
00:22:10,984 --> 00:22:14,064
Speaker 1: make more poaching than he could even at the job

355
00:22:14,224 --> 00:22:17,584
Speaker 1: when he had it. Yeah, you know, most of the

356
00:22:17,624 --> 00:22:20,344
Speaker 1: people in his village are working in rubber plantations and

357
00:22:20,344 --> 00:22:24,424
Speaker 1: are just barely scraping by. And actually, what a lot

358
00:22:24,464 --> 00:22:26,784
Speaker 1: of the people in his village do to supplement their

359
00:22:26,784 --> 00:22:30,864
Speaker 1: income is poach exotic plants like orchids and epenthes and

360
00:22:30,984 --> 00:22:34,024
Speaker 1: all sorts of other things. And you know, he told me,

361
00:22:34,424 --> 00:22:36,624
Speaker 1: I've got to buy my kids school supplies. I've got

362
00:22:36,624 --> 00:22:38,464
Speaker 1: to put food on the table. I've got a bunch

363
00:22:38,504 --> 00:22:40,864
Speaker 1: of kids and a wife to support. So as long

364
00:22:40,904 --> 00:22:43,104
Speaker 1: as these orders keep coming in, I'm going to keep

365
00:22:43,144 --> 00:22:45,984
Speaker 1: going into the jungle to get these plants because I

366
00:22:46,104 --> 00:22:48,464
Speaker 1: have to do what I have to do, like going

367
00:22:48,504 --> 00:22:50,744
Speaker 1: into the jungle. Even though I assume he's in much

368
00:22:50,784 --> 00:22:54,304
Speaker 1: better shape than you, Like, how dangerous is this for him? Yeah?

369
00:22:54,304 --> 00:22:56,624
Speaker 1: He does face a lot of risk going into the

370
00:22:56,664 --> 00:23:00,904
Speaker 1: jungle to get these plants, aside from the wildlife and

371
00:23:01,464 --> 00:23:04,744
Speaker 1: all of the poisonous things that he's coming in contact with.

372
00:23:05,064 --> 00:23:07,264
Speaker 1: And by the way, he's walking into the jungle for

373
00:23:07,384 --> 00:23:10,224
Speaker 1: days at a time and just camping out with canvas

374
00:23:10,224 --> 00:23:13,264
Speaker 1: that he's strung up in the trees. Right, he brings

375
00:23:13,264 --> 00:23:18,144
Speaker 1: a machete with him for protection from snakes and bears,

376
00:23:18,224 --> 00:23:21,304
Speaker 1: and you know, at the same time he's risking running

377
00:23:21,304 --> 00:23:24,424
Speaker 1: into rangers who do regular patrols of the forest. He

378
00:23:24,544 --> 00:23:27,984
Speaker 1: told me that recently some people he knows from a

379
00:23:27,984 --> 00:23:33,184
Speaker 1: neighboring village were caught poaching plants and got prison time

380
00:23:33,304 --> 00:23:37,904
Speaker 1: for it. And that's definitely something that he's concerned about

381
00:23:38,464 --> 00:23:41,344
Speaker 1: and something that he worries about a lot. But again,

382
00:23:41,384 --> 00:23:43,584
Speaker 1: it just comes down to what he has to do

383
00:23:43,664 --> 00:23:46,504
Speaker 1: for his family. And I think that this story speaks

384
00:23:46,544 --> 00:23:49,664
Speaker 1: a lot to the you know, the level of privilege

385
00:23:49,704 --> 00:23:53,264
Speaker 1: that people in this plant poaching pipeline experience and how

386
00:23:53,304 --> 00:23:56,464
Speaker 1: that privilege plays out in their decision making. You know,

387
00:23:56,664 --> 00:23:58,944
Speaker 1: because the guy in America gets like a letter in

388
00:23:58,984 --> 00:24:01,984
Speaker 1: the mail warning him, and Malaysian police are actually taking

389
00:24:02,024 --> 00:24:05,544
Speaker 1: it far more seriously and putting the poachers in jail, right, Yeah,

390
00:24:05,584 --> 00:24:08,744
Speaker 1: I mean people are facing actual prison time here. Whereas

391
00:24:09,104 --> 00:24:12,904
Speaker 1: a collector is doing this for the sake of collecting

392
00:24:12,944 --> 00:24:16,104
Speaker 1: the plants and having a hobby, Shaw is doing this

393
00:24:16,224 --> 00:24:20,504
Speaker 1: because he has a family to feed. Meanwhile, back in America,

394
00:24:20,904 --> 00:24:22,984
Speaker 1: Matt did he serve time Like what happened to him?

395
00:24:23,264 --> 00:24:27,024
Speaker 1: He didn't end up serving any time. He after two

396
00:24:27,024 --> 00:24:29,104
Speaker 1: and a half years of undercover work, he doesn't serve

397
00:24:29,144 --> 00:24:32,584
Speaker 1: any time. Yeah, that's that's the part. This really shocking

398
00:24:32,704 --> 00:24:35,904
Speaker 1: is that Jimmy spends all of this time doing this

399
00:24:36,064 --> 00:24:40,944
Speaker 1: undercover sting. He got Warren and magazine profiles let's face back. Yeah,

400
00:24:41,384 --> 00:24:44,944
Speaker 1: and he's you know, he's going through Matt's emails, He's

401
00:24:45,024 --> 00:24:47,384
Speaker 1: going to his house and taking all these pictures, he's

402
00:24:47,464 --> 00:24:50,944
Speaker 1: recording conversations he's having with him, and so you know,

403
00:24:51,064 --> 00:24:53,144
Speaker 1: you can get up to five years in federal prison

404
00:24:53,144 --> 00:24:56,504
Speaker 1: and a twenty thousand dollars fine for violating the Lacy Act,

405
00:24:56,824 --> 00:25:00,024
Speaker 1: but Matt gets three years probation and a one hundred

406
00:25:00,064 --> 00:25:04,544
Speaker 1: dollars court fee. He's also forbidden from purchasing the penthes

407
00:25:04,624 --> 00:25:07,424
Speaker 1: during his probation. So how do we feel about that,

408
00:25:07,544 --> 00:25:11,904
Speaker 1: do we I think that's fair. I mean, I'll let

409
00:25:11,984 --> 00:25:14,944
Speaker 1: Matt speak for this, and that he felt like getting

410
00:25:14,984 --> 00:25:19,264
Speaker 1: caught was actually a huge help to him and helped

411
00:25:19,344 --> 00:25:23,064
Speaker 1: him break his addiction and move on with his life.

412
00:25:23,144 --> 00:25:26,944
Speaker 1: And so I mean, yeah, Matt being a straight white

413
00:25:26,984 --> 00:25:30,064
Speaker 1: guy in the United States getting a small court fee

414
00:25:30,104 --> 00:25:33,104
Speaker 1: compared to Shaw, who's facing years in prison for being

415
00:25:33,184 --> 00:25:36,024
Speaker 1: part of the same industry. I mean, I think that

416
00:25:36,064 --> 00:25:39,624
Speaker 1: people can draw their own conclusions on that. W How

417
00:25:39,704 --> 00:25:41,784
Speaker 1: is he now, what's mad up to? He's doing well,

418
00:25:41,824 --> 00:25:44,944
Speaker 1: He's doing well. He interviewed on the condition that might

419
00:25:44,944 --> 00:25:47,504
Speaker 1: not divulge where he is now or what he's doing,

420
00:25:47,584 --> 00:25:51,144
Speaker 1: but I will say that he's doing much better now.

421
00:25:51,224 --> 00:25:54,744
Speaker 1: He doesn't collect anything anymore. He's got a stable job

422
00:25:54,824 --> 00:25:57,624
Speaker 1: and a new girlfriend, and he's doing great. I do

423
00:25:57,704 --> 00:26:01,424
Speaker 1: think it's important to note that Matt feels a lot

424
00:26:01,464 --> 00:26:04,024
Speaker 1: of remorse for what he did. I mean, one of

425
00:26:04,024 --> 00:26:06,984
Speaker 1: the species that was that he bought from a poacher

426
00:26:07,504 --> 00:26:10,184
Speaker 1: is now extinct from the wild, and that's not lost

427
00:26:10,224 --> 00:26:14,864
Speaker 1: on him. Brian, you were an avid collector of pitcher plants?

428
00:26:15,104 --> 00:26:18,304
Speaker 1: Are you still collecting these things? In reporting this, I

429
00:26:18,504 --> 00:26:23,184
Speaker 1: definitely lost a lot of my luster for these plants.

430
00:26:23,584 --> 00:26:26,784
Speaker 1: After speaking to the scientists who have been following this

431
00:26:26,944 --> 00:26:32,504
Speaker 1: closely and realizing how much collectors, even those who don't

432
00:26:32,624 --> 00:26:37,184
Speaker 1: buy post plants, are driving this industry simply by popularizing it,

433
00:26:38,024 --> 00:26:42,424
Speaker 1: I felt that I needed to be responsible and stop

434
00:26:42,464 --> 00:26:46,144
Speaker 1: buying these plants. Brian Howe, who wrote When a Houseplant

435
00:26:46,184 --> 00:26:49,904
Speaker 1: Obsession Becomes a Nightmare for Wired Magazine, thank you so

436
00:26:50,024 --> 00:26:53,184
Speaker 1: much for writing this and telling us about it. Thanks

437
00:26:53,184 --> 00:26:54,824
Speaker 1: so much for having me as a pleasure to be

438
00:26:54,824 --> 00:26:58,824
Speaker 1: on the show, and I really hope you find some help. Thanks.

439
00:26:58,944 --> 00:27:04,784
Speaker 1: I'm looking. Brian's story wasn't actually my introduction to nepenthees collectors.

440
00:27:05,304 --> 00:27:07,104
Speaker 1: I had read an article a couple of months ago

441
00:27:07,144 --> 00:27:10,024
Speaker 1: in Stanford Magazine. It was about these two guys who'd

442
00:27:10,064 --> 00:27:12,504
Speaker 1: been on the wrestling team together, but they hadn't talked

443
00:27:12,504 --> 00:27:15,664
Speaker 1: in a while. One had become a Microsoft analyst, the

444
00:27:15,824 --> 00:27:19,984
Speaker 1: other was an engineer at Google, again Stanford. So one

445
00:27:20,024 --> 00:27:24,024
Speaker 1: of them pulls into this nursery called California Carnivores and

446
00:27:24,104 --> 00:27:26,224
Speaker 1: he looks out his window and the car next to

447
00:27:26,304 --> 00:27:29,624
Speaker 1: him he sees his old teammate. They had both collected

448
00:27:29,624 --> 00:27:32,904
Speaker 1: carnivorous plants in their dorm rooms, but had never told

449
00:27:32,904 --> 00:27:37,704
Speaker 1: each other. That's how nerdy collecting these plants is. Even

450
00:27:37,864 --> 00:27:42,624
Speaker 1: Stanford students were embarrassed by it. Now both of these

451
00:27:42,624 --> 00:27:47,144
Speaker 1: guys each owns a carnivorous plant nursery. This is not

452
00:27:47,224 --> 00:27:50,544
Speaker 1: a coincidence. Then the panphey world is full of rich

453
00:27:50,624 --> 00:27:55,224
Speaker 1: tech dudes. There's this Tinkerer meets Burning Man quality to

454
00:27:55,304 --> 00:27:59,184
Speaker 1: growing the pantheis. It's yet another thing of beauty that's

455
00:27:59,224 --> 00:28:02,944
Speaker 1: been ruined by the male ego, much like Burning Man itself.

456
00:28:03,944 --> 00:28:08,584
Speaker 1: My mom should definitely reboot Plants Alive only in Palo Alto.

457
00:28:09,144 --> 00:28:14,704
Speaker 1: She'd make a killing. At the end of the show,

458
00:28:14,984 --> 00:28:18,184
Speaker 1: what's next for joel Stein? Maybe he'll take a nap

459
00:28:18,384 --> 00:28:24,184
Speaker 1: voke around online. Our show today was produced by Molaboard

460
00:28:24,504 --> 00:28:29,264
Speaker 1: and Nisha Bencutt. It was edited by Robert Smith. Our

461
00:28:29,344 --> 00:28:33,384
Speaker 1: engineer is Amanda kay Wang and our executive producer is

462
00:28:33,824 --> 00:28:37,504
Speaker 1: Katherine Siradol and our theme song was written and performed

463
00:28:37,544 --> 00:28:40,744
Speaker 1: by Jonathan Colton and a special thanks to my voice

464
00:28:40,744 --> 00:28:45,104
Speaker 1: coach Vicky Merrick and my consulting producer, Lawrence Elasneck. To

465
00:28:45,144 --> 00:28:49,904
Speaker 1: find more Pushkin Podcast listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

466
00:28:50,224 --> 00:28:53,264
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Joel Stein

467
00:28:53,784 --> 00:28:56,384
Speaker 1: and this is the story of the week. My partner

468
00:28:56,424 --> 00:28:59,904
Speaker 1: has definitely made a lot of Freud jokes about my collection,

469
00:29:00,104 --> 00:29:03,344
Speaker 1: and you can certainly see why, because before the pitchers opened,

470
00:29:03,384 --> 00:29:06,624
Speaker 1: they looked just like Dix and after they opened, they

471
00:29:06,864 --> 00:29:11,224
Speaker 1: look like vaginas. And that's why people are posting naked

472
00:29:11,264 --> 00:29:14,264
Speaker 1: with them. I mean, that's definitely part of the sexual

473
00:29:14,344 --> 00:29:19,824
Speaker 1: alure I think. Yeah. Up next week, the weirdest hand

474
00:29:20,104 --> 00:29:22,104
Speaker 1: ever played in the history of poker,