WEBVTT - Dealing with Ceilings 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:06.880 Welcome to the solid verbal hull. That for me. I'm 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.680 a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say, well, 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:11.640 I want to be happy. You want to be happy 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.440 for a day? Ato steak is that woo woof? 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:20.520 And Dan and Tie welcome back to the Cliburbo boys 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:23.400 and girls. My name is Ty hilden Brand joining me 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:27.160 over there in tropical Chicago, Illinois. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.960 Dan Rubinstein, sir, how are you pretty good? It's it 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.560 is tropical, it's sixty plus degrees. I went for a run. 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:41.040 I promptly got back eight Indian lentils and rice because 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:44.320 I don't like filling up too much lunchtime, because I'm 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:46.839 the type of person who can get slogged down by 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.160 a big lunch. At around three fifteen pm, and then 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.440 I saw that we had left over donuts, right because 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:56.440 we had friends who brought over donuts for like a 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.680 little park meet up yesterday and left us with the 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:03.319 left Because Chicago. Everybody likes to think of Chicago as 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.480 like deep dish Italian beef whatever, like the touristy foods, 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:10.360 Chicago may be America's best donut town. If you watched 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:12.640 and remember any part of Wayne's world when they go 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:17.600 to the donut shop and sure it is rife. If 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.800 that's the word I'm looking for with donut excellence, La 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.679 and Chicago are the best I've found. Well, this is 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.479 why people tell me I'm way down. Nonetheless, as we're 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:28.959 supposed to talk about ceilings at the moment, I would 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.559 come crashing through some ceiling. So here we are, Here 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:32.920 we are. 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:38.280 It is getting warmer, at least here in the mid Atlantic. 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.680 Over there in the Midwest. It got me to thinking, Dan, 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:46.720 what is the threshold in your respective geography for going 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:48.880 to the gas station and spotting your first. 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:50.920 Pair of gene shorts for the year. 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.040 We'll talk about that a little bit later on. My 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.640 guess is, do you are you a jort community member? Like, 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.920 are you are there jorts in your area? Are there 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.160 shorts in my area? I'm in eastern Pennsylvania. This is 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.640 exclusively George's territory. Khaki, you're in a hot zone. I'm 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.120 in a hot zone. Yeah, a hotspot, a big deep 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:13.720 red circle on the New York Times tracking index. 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.600 Yeah. Yeah, so like when when the government issues it's 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:21.560 like stay away from these war torn hot zones. Yeah, 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.639 you are in the midst of a gene torn if 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.560 you will. That's correct, that's actually gone. Okay. I don't 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.280 think I am, but I haven't spent a full summer 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.040 here yet, so I'm happy to be proven wrong. 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.120 We will talk about this a little bit later. We 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.440 do have pressing business to get to in the form 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.520 of ceilings with y'all address moment artily. Don't forget to 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.280 subscribe to the show if you haven't already, going out 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.960 solibble dot com up a right hand corner gives you 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:48.960 all the links that you need. 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:49.959 To subscribe to the show. 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.960 We're also all over the place on social media, be 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.320 it Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube, you name it. 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:57.720 We're all over the place. 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:02.280 And last, but certainly not least, verballers dot com Dan 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.040 verballers dot com. Yes, you can head on out to 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.959 verballers dot com. Join in on the fun, be part 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.639 of the Patreon, get access to our discord server, which 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.120 is poppin' even in the off season. 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.119 It's poppin'. Yeah. I like it. 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.799 I'm gonna be working on our next off topic show. 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.480 I have some ideas that I want to want to 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.040 run by right here, not to hit the stop button, 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.360 but verballers dot Com is where you can find all 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:30.680 the info on how to be part of the budding 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:31.680 Patreon community. 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:33.680 Daniel, here you go. 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:36.680 Okay, should we start with news? Do you want to 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:38.480 talk about a large bit of news? Sure? 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.360 I don't know if you have to sound out wow. 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.960 Wow, that was very loud in my years. 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:47.840 Is that loud for you? Yeah? Yeah, like a ton 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:53.440 of bricks. So so, speaking of ceilings, we should mention 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:58.000 a program with arguably the lowest or second lowest floor, 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.000 depending on how you feel about the depths of where 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.360 Utgers has fallen but is climbing out of. Right now. 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.360 The Kansas Jayhawks employee Less Miles at the time of 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:10.800 this recording. Correct, correct, Yeah, hard to see lasting a 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.560 ton longer. I don't laugh because I'm making fun of 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.320 the severity of everything that's swirling in the Less Miles 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.640 universe right now. But a report was made public about 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:26.160 his time at LSU that in twenty twelve he acted 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:31.320 extremely inappropriately and made advances towards women who were students 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.280 at LSU and involved in the football program, and came 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:38.039 onto them and had a condo and just was driving 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:42.080 them and just it's really ugly. And even more details 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:45.479 about what was covered up or thrown under the rug 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.880 in terms of how players and of course less Miles 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.200 treated women during that time. You know, some of it 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:54.680 had already come out and was known. Some of it 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:58.320 was not, you know, an accusation around Darius Geis and 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:02.560 sexually harassing and all older security guard like really ugly, 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:07.240 ugly stuff. Anyway, and that was I believe post miles 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.000 if I remember correctly, But in any case, it was 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:11.680 within the LSU program. But in terms of less Miles 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:17.440 specific alleged actions, it looks like Joe Leiva, the former 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.520 AD of LSU, recommended that they terminate less Miles with 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.440 cause in twenty thirteen after the investigation into what he 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:27.279 was doing in twenty twelve, and that was shot down 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:31.320 by people up above his pay grade. In any case, 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.360 the reflection on less Miles now the reflection on Kansas 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.320 and Jeff Long, the current AD one of the people 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.640 that I'm sure was in charge of the vetting of 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:45.240 less Miles, and it's bad, It's real bad. It's a 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:50.560 terrible reflection on some pretty horrible, awful accusations. 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.360 Well, and now he's been placed on administrative leaving. As 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:58.359 we mentioned that that happened on Friday, And to your point, 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.279 it's hard to see how that's going to be a 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.279 tenable situation moving forward. 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:10.000 Also interesting in retrospect, it's always easier in retrospect. Hi 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:14.599 in retrospect that less Miles, after the successes he had 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.080 and obviously the shortcomings that he did as a pure 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.960 on field football coach, wins and losses, coach, interviewed for jobs, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.760 jobs that were looking look like they were far not 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:30.800 beneath but clearly smaller jobs than what he had at LSU, 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.360 and just was bouncing around like not able to secure 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:36.919 a job, not able to get an interview at big places, 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:41.040 not able to nail interviews at smaller places, and perhaps 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.880 in search firm some schools better at vetting than others, 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:49.360 or makes sense, better able to make peace with moving 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.000 on from less Miles than what Kansas was able to do. 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:54.880 So it is my assumption that less Miles won't be 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.920 coaching at Kansas this fall, and Kansas once again back 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.920 to the drawing board if that's the case. After a 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.839 string of pretty awful hires in terms of turning Kansas 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.800 football round, Charlie Weiss, Turner, Gale David Beatty and now 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:14.400 Les Miles who I think probably stood the least chance. Yeah, well, look, 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:15.400 we to succeed. 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:19.640 We talked about this time and again here. Yeah, in 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.160 the beginning, the move to go and get less miles 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.760 before any of this stuff was common knowledge, it was 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.280 met with mixed reviews. There was one camp where it 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:31.160 was like, hey, it's Kansas, what could happen? 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:32.559 It's less miles. 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.720 He's right, they'll never be able to do better than 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.280 a national championship winning coach, right. 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:38.720 So there was that school of thought. 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.400 There was the other school of thought, which honestly I 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.440 think was a little bit more vociferous, and that was 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:46.960 what are we doing here? Why are we going back 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.520 to the Well, we're going to hire an older coach. 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:53.040 He's not going to have a long shelf life. It's 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.720 more of a pr stunt, right. So, look, whatever camp 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:58.560 you were in, it doesn't seem like it's in a 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.200 good spot now. It's probably all headed to the same place, 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.200 and Kansas may well find itself in a position soon 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.800 enough where they have to take another crack at hiring 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:10.440 somebody else. We talked about that situation as well. It's 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.360 the wrong time of year, the wrong time of year, 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.800 but what does it take if you are Kansas, to 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.679 try and dig yourself out of this hole, to move forward, 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.440 to put yourself back on the straight and narrow. 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:24.640 It's going to be a tough place to do that. 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.560 I don't think it's impossible, but certainly on the heels 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:29.400 of this it doesn't. 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:31.760 Wouldn't I should say, leave them in a great spot. 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:36.760 It's also just an especially awful institutional look that you 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:40.439 have this outside firm come in and investigate the allegations 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:45.800 and come to the conclusion that a ton of inappropriate 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:51.319 activity took place, and the ad say, you know, we 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:53.120 got to get rid of this kai. And now maybe 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:57.400 it appears that the judgment was they were not going 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.080 to be able to in court get away with say 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.280 less Miles was terminated for reasonable cause, and that they 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.160 would still have to owe him whatever it was, the 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:11.160 fifteen million dollars. But such an astonishingly awful institutional look 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.360 for the boss or one of the bosses to say, yeah, 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.600 we got to get rid of this guy. That's my 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:22.040 appraisal of the situation, and people above him say, now, 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.600 we're good because he's a powerful dude who wins football games. 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.720 It's look, this is a cultural element of this sport. 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:30.600 We love that we have to make peace with in 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:35.600 our own way, but man, when specifics come out, it's 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:39.640 a terrible, terrible thing to read. And I just hope 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.160 the women who were involved with this were able to 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.319 sort of find peace with being treated horribly because I 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.120 can't imagine the situation they were put in. 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:51.640 Yeah, and to the point of Booster's Dan, We're not 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.120 going to cover on this show, but I believe a 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.800 report is due out at the University of Texas and 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.120 it seems as if there is a heavy Booster influence 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.760 on that one as well. Regarding we saw the Texas Monthly. Yeah, yeah, 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.880 some other stuff, So more to come on that front. 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.120 We won't get out over our skis there. We'll talk 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:11.640 a little bit more about that on Thursday. 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:16.160 But I believe that was an internal investigation turn away, Yeah, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.360 both into the Eyes of Texas. So I don't know 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:24.520 whatever stock you put into an institution investigating itself, but yeah, 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:26.400 that was the foyer stuff of all the emails that 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:30.560 came in during the Eyes of Texas controversy among players 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.880 and students, finding that the origins of the song were 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:39.679 not befitting of the University of Texas. So yeah, going 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.600 on more to come on that on Thursday. 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.360 Anything else of note, Dan, anything else in the COLLEGEO 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:47.360 ball news radar? 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:50.000 No, I mean We're going to still see more and 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.920 more transfers. I'm interested to see what kind of spring 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:56.240 football we get with you know, some protocols still in place, 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.080 but people getting vaccinated. We certainly have older coaches, which 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.559 is good news for them if they're able to stay healthy. 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:06.120 And interesting to see what happens with the transfer portal, 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.000 you know, shifting back to the less important thing, but 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:12.280 looking what the transfer portal has to offer after spring football, 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.120 Guys getting beat out, guys fully making a decision that 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.000 they want to be somewhere else. It'll be interesting to 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.120 see as the pieces continue to shuffle across the sport. 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:25.120 Tom Allen got a one million dollar annual raise in 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:27.760 a new deal for him. Good for him, l e 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.760 O seems like, as we posted on Twitter, a really 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:36.360 good value by for Indiana. Also, Randy Etzel Randy edzelll 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.440 get a two year extension. How about that at you 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:42.120 conn our boy? Yeah, I mean we didn't lose this season. 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:47.360 The feel good story of stores. All right, shall we 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:51.320 get to our game Djore, let's do that. We put 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.640 out a call on the old Twitter sphere a little 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.000 bit ago around one o'clock Eastern time, and say, look, 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:03.679 your team in this scenario, it's not Alabama, it's not Clemson, 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:09.360 it's not Ohio State. What is your team's win slash 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:14.600 bowl ceiling? It can be either your current team's potential, 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:19.520 your team's potential potential, it could be another team altogether, 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.320 any timebox you want to put on it, right, But 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:24.640 tell us more about your team. 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.400 Yeah, if you want to tell me your team doesn't 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.640 have a ceiling of a certain number of games or 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.680 a certain bowl game, but you just want to say, yeah, 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:37.199 my team has a ceiling of competent competitive vibes, I'm 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:39.760 good with that. That's a ceiling for sure. 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.800 So we got a very specific one here from a 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:47.319 gentleman who goes by j Train of Jolly on Twitter. 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.280 Well, first of all, can can we define things as 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.640 well before we talk about it? Sure? So to you 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.800 what determines the ceiling, like when you are going to 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.880 weigh in on any of these teams, Penn State, Nebraska, Utah, 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:04.800 Texas Tech, whatever, What What do you think about? What? 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.920 What helps? What propels a team to its ceiling, like, 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:11.000 there are a number of factors, right, sure, So what 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.120 are you considering in terms of like how a team 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:18.920 actually gets there where? What propels a rocket? Boosters? What 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.439 are the that's a good wal tied to college football? 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.079 I think boosters. What are the boosters here? 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:25.920 I think that's the more interesting way to frame the question, 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:31.000 because anybody could say Notre Dame ceiling is probably making 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.480 the playoffs and as somebody pointed out, losing by two 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.679 to three scores. Okay, anybody can. 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:41.280 Mean it's one of the more proven situations. Yeah football, Yeah. 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.280 It's it's not exactly guess and check, but anybody can 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:46.240 put a number on it and say, well, case State, 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.280 case States may be a low key Big twelve contender. 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:52.800 I would agree, Yeah, I mean I went to the 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.520 Fiesta bal within the decade, I believe. I think I 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.280 think the real question that is how to get there? What? 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.840 What is what is the propellant to get that team 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:03.040 to that place? 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:05.319 It's a combination of factors. 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.240 First off, I think it's got to be something on 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:12.040 the recruiting slash talent development front. 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:14.480 If you're not recruiting. 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:18.960 Well well enough, if you're not like Matt Campbell and 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.680 developing the talent that you get. It's going to be 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.920 hard to try and build up anything right. Secondly, I 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.320 think you need to have some degree of coaching stability. 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.520 You know, poor Florida State, Florida Florida State has had 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.800 so much coaching turnover in the last five years. 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:40.680 It's tough to establish momentum. It is hard. How do 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.040 you do it? Or if you're swapping out. 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.720 Coordinators like we've seen, like, it's hard, it's hard to 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:52.680 establish that momentum. So combination obviously of recruiting, developing talent, 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:59.080 some amount of coaching stability. Doesn't mean like everybody has 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.120 to stay, but you need to at least have an 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.440 Alabama situation. You've got a good, strong leader at the 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.920 top to set the tone and establish a template for 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:11.640 those underlings. And then I would also say that you know, 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:16.200 there needs to be a favorable setup with your schedule, 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:20.040 with your conference. There needs to be an opening. It 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.440 needs to be an opening. I'm not going to come 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:27.400 out here and say that I feel great about Mississippi 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:32.200 State's chances to win the SEC West. I'm not right, 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.560 it's not realistic. What's the opening there? 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:35.120 What needle. 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:36.920 Are we threading to get to the top of the 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.600 SEC West? It does not feel realistic to me. Now, 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:45.520 could a team like I don't know, Virginia pave a 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:50.760 way to win it's side of the ACC maybe good 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.320 talk about that seems more practical to me. 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:56.480 But we got to be realistic. Well, I was just 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.320 going to say, it's it's sort of nature versus nature. 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.840 It's the nature of your own wiring. So whatever you're 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:04.760 able to do to control things internally and then the 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.520 nature of your division or conference. Now, the easiest way 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.200 to hit your ceiling is to have amazing coaches and 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.680 amazing players. You're going to beat everybody you play if 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.760 you have essentially, I mean, you will likely beat everybody 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.320 you play if you have a talent and coaching advantage. 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:19.920 Now short of that, which is why we said, I 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.280 don't want to hear from Alabama, Ohio State, and Clemson 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.640 fans because that's the scenario with them, and I guess, 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.760 to a smaller extent Oklahoma, but they seem to be 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:35.600 losing it at least a more it's a more common occurrence. 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.280 And that's still an Oklahoma team than program that's just 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:43.560 elite and excellent. I think the point you made about 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.360 situation is fascinating to me. So if you take that 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:51.280 twenty twelve, I believe Kansas State team, that's Colin Klein, 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.760 and that's a big twelve that has this incredible axis 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.840 of mediocrity Texas five and four, Oklahoma State five and four, 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.440 Baler four and five, TCU four and five, Texas Tech 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.800 four and five, West Virginia four and five. So if 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:10.440 you are able to prove that you are good, maybe 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.680 not great, but good to really good in a conference 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:18.440 with a lot of sh medium, then you rise. Now 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.240 you can also get to a point where you are 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:23.880 hitting on all cylinders. So let's say you have one 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:25.840 of the best, and I think this is the situation 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.080 for teams basically everybody in college football. You probably need 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.960 to have one of your five to seven best quarterbacks ever, right, No, 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:35.960 I think that's an element. I think you have to 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.920 have health luck. I think you need to have health situation. Well, yeah, health, 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:42.800 lack of attrition, which you mentioned, especially with coaches, but 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:44.960 I even think just you know, you don't have a 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.560 position group decimated by injuries, and so we have teams 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.080 that have made the playoff have gone to conference championship games, 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.800 gone to New Year six games that don't necessarily find 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.040 themselves in that position a lot. So you look at 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.639 you know, Michigan State and Iowa, and you know Washington 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.000 made up playoff game, and you know, Stanford had a 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.320 really nice run. But and this is not an asterisk 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.199 territory that I'm going to, but there are a finite 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.720 number of wins to be had in a conference. And 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:13.800 if there are a bunch of ohn eight two and 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:17.520 sevens one in six, whatever it is, in the bottom 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.240 of that conference, you just you can pick up wins. 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.080 You can pick up cheap wins in those conferences, and 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.880 it makes it so much easier to get to I mean, 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:28.080 I don't say this in a bad way, but like 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.320 Syracuse a couple of years ago, they picked up cheap wins. 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:33.280 And that's okay because that's what good teams and good 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.920 programs do all the time. You look at Clemson. Clemson 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.199 has hit their ceiling and they're still at their ceiling. 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.960 But it coincides with Florida State throwing a bunch of 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.680 wins to the acc right right right, And that's okay 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.000 because that's what excellent teams do. And so you know, 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.080 Colorado pops up and wins the Pac twelve West the 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.719 year under Mike McIntyre. I believe that was a four 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:59.439 and eight Oregon season. So you have these situations that 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:01.960 teams that are not winning nine, ten to eleven games, 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:06.800 eight games, whatever, that all that often you need to rise. 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:10.520 And we make this analogy sometimes where it's really good 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:14.320 to draft behind the opportunity truck. So when things start 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.439 falling off, you're right there. You're at like what is 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.680 the you want to road podcast or what's the name 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:21.399 of the unit that you want to pick up to 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:22.359 upgrade your audio. 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.200 We're looking at the road cast pro at the moment. 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.720 Road cast or pro. Yeah, So if you're you just 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:29.840 want to be drafted off that road cast or pro 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.920 truck and if a few fall off and nobody says 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.320 anything there, you were to pick them up, Tie. 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:37.480 I would be fine with that. I would so fine 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:37.800 with that. 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.359 In this scenario, like a team who hasn't necessarily been 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.440 winning a bunch of games and is suddenly looking excellent 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.359 Iowa State. Iowa State is in this position because they 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.040 have a good coach, they look like they have a 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.119 good culture, they look like they've recruited really smartly and 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:57.280 developed really well. But also there are some extremely down 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.840 teams in the Big twelve right now, and so Iowa 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:04.600 State is good enough to pick up those wins drafting 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.640 behind the opportunity truck. How about so. 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:11.399 How about Indiana? In twenty twenty, Indiana had their quarterback 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.520 go down too. Yep, their quarterback went down and they 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:17.160 still turned in an incredible season. 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:19.560 Weird year, blah blah blah. We all know that. 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.439 But if you want to talk about how you build it, 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.280 Tom Allen's been doing the slow burn. It has been 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:31.119 the slow burn. I'm not going to say recruiting has 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:32.719 been off the charts, but he's done a really good 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:36.320 job developing the talent there. He's done a really good job, 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.280 I think, building that culture from within. And it just 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:43.200 so happens that in twenty twenty we had a situation 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:44.520 where Penn State was down. 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:49.120 Yeah, Michigan, Michigan was down. Penn State and Michigan combined 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:53.800 to go six and nine. Nice, So it's in Michigan 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:55.959 State's two and five, like the like. These are the 0:20:56.000 --> 0:21:01.400 things that the opportunity truck presents, And maybe it wasn't 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:04.800 Maryland's ere to take advantage, or Wisconsin's eer or Minnesota's 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:09.320 here to take advantage. But when everything tends to come together, 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:14.240 quarterback depth, upper classmen, coaches and players on the same page, 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:18.520 that's when you get the nine Windiana pursuit. And we 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:19.240 see it every year. 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.080 Every year there's a team that benefits, and it could 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:24.520 be from schedule, it could be from a number of 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:28.320 different factors, maybe getting a top recruit, a diamond in 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:32.320 the rough. We see this pretty constantly throughout college football. 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.439 Each year there's a different team that kind of steps 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:37.680 up and bubbles up in a way that a lot 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.560 of folks didn't see coming. And that's okay, that's okay. 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:45.240 We're not necessarily talking about continued success with this question. 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:49.800 We're just talking about what's the ceiling. If there's that 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:52.040 one year spike, what's the ceiling. 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:58.000 Isn't that Also, by the way, the enduring success and 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:01.680