Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal hull. That for me. I'm
Speaker 1: a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say, well,
Speaker 1: I want to be happy. You want to be happy
Speaker 1: for a day? Ato steak is that woo woof?
Speaker 2: And Dan and Tie welcome back to the Cliburbo boys
Speaker 2: and girls. My name is Ty hilden Brand joining me
Speaker 2: over there in tropical Chicago, Illinois.
Speaker 1: Dan Rubinstein, sir, how are you pretty good? It's it
Speaker 1: is tropical, it's sixty plus degrees. I went for a run.
Speaker 1: I promptly got back eight Indian lentils and rice because
Speaker 1: I don't like filling up too much lunchtime, because I'm
Speaker 1: the type of person who can get slogged down by
Speaker 1: a big lunch. At around three fifteen pm, and then
Speaker 1: I saw that we had left over donuts, right because
Speaker 1: we had friends who brought over donuts for like a
Speaker 1: little park meet up yesterday and left us with the
Speaker 1: left Because Chicago. Everybody likes to think of Chicago as
Speaker 1: like deep dish Italian beef whatever, like the touristy foods,
Speaker 1: Chicago may be America's best donut town. If you watched
Speaker 1: and remember any part of Wayne's world when they go
Speaker 1: to the donut shop and sure it is rife. If
Speaker 1: that's the word I'm looking for with donut excellence, La
Speaker 1: and Chicago are the best I've found. Well, this is
Speaker 1: why people tell me I'm way down. Nonetheless, as we're
Speaker 1: supposed to talk about ceilings at the moment, I would
Speaker 1: come crashing through some ceiling. So here we are, Here
Speaker 1: we are.
Speaker 2: It is getting warmer, at least here in the mid Atlantic.
Speaker 2: Over there in the Midwest. It got me to thinking, Dan,
Speaker 2: what is the threshold in your respective geography for going
Speaker 2: to the gas station and spotting your first.
Speaker 1: Pair of gene shorts for the year.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about that a little bit later on. My
Speaker 2: guess is, do you are you a jort community member? Like,
Speaker 2: are you are there jorts in your area? Are there
Speaker 2: shorts in my area? I'm in eastern Pennsylvania. This is
Speaker 2: exclusively George's territory. Khaki, you're in a hot zone. I'm
Speaker 2: in a hot zone. Yeah, a hotspot, a big deep
Speaker 2: red circle on the New York Times tracking index.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so like when when the government issues it's
Speaker 1: like stay away from these war torn hot zones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you are in the midst of a gene torn if
Speaker 1: you will. That's correct, that's actually gone. Okay. I don't
Speaker 1: think I am, but I haven't spent a full summer
Speaker 1: here yet, so I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Speaker 2: We will talk about this a little bit later. We
Speaker 2: do have pressing business to get to in the form
Speaker 2: of ceilings with y'all address moment artily. Don't forget to
Speaker 2: subscribe to the show if you haven't already, going out
Speaker 2: solibble dot com up a right hand corner gives you
Speaker 2: all the links that you need.
Speaker 1: To subscribe to the show.
Speaker 2: We're also all over the place on social media, be
Speaker 2: it Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube, you name it.
Speaker 1: We're all over the place.
Speaker 2: And last, but certainly not least, verballers dot com Dan
Speaker 2: verballers dot com. Yes, you can head on out to
Speaker 2: verballers dot com. Join in on the fun, be part
Speaker 2: of the Patreon, get access to our discord server, which
Speaker 2: is poppin' even in the off season.
Speaker 1: It's poppin'. Yeah. I like it.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be working on our next off topic show.
Speaker 2: I have some ideas that I want to want to
Speaker 2: run by right here, not to hit the stop button,
Speaker 2: but verballers dot Com is where you can find all
Speaker 2: the info on how to be part of the budding
Speaker 2: Patreon community.
Speaker 1: Daniel, here you go.
Speaker 2: Okay, should we start with news? Do you want to
Speaker 2: talk about a large bit of news? Sure?
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have to sound out wow.
Speaker 2: Wow, that was very loud in my years.
Speaker 1: Is that loud for you? Yeah? Yeah, like a ton
Speaker 1: of bricks. So so, speaking of ceilings, we should mention
Speaker 1: a program with arguably the lowest or second lowest floor,
Speaker 1: depending on how you feel about the depths of where
Speaker 1: Utgers has fallen but is climbing out of. Right now.
Speaker 1: The Kansas Jayhawks employee Less Miles at the time of
Speaker 1: this recording. Correct, correct, Yeah, hard to see lasting a
Speaker 1: ton longer. I don't laugh because I'm making fun of
Speaker 1: the severity of everything that's swirling in the Less Miles
Speaker 1: universe right now. But a report was made public about
Speaker 1: his time at LSU that in twenty twelve he acted
Speaker 1: extremely inappropriately and made advances towards women who were students
Speaker 1: at LSU and involved in the football program, and came
Speaker 1: onto them and had a condo and just was driving
Speaker 1: them and just it's really ugly. And even more details
Speaker 1: about what was covered up or thrown under the rug
Speaker 1: in terms of how players and of course less Miles
Speaker 1: treated women during that time. You know, some of it
Speaker 1: had already come out and was known. Some of it
Speaker 1: was not, you know, an accusation around Darius Geis and
Speaker 1: sexually harassing and all older security guard like really ugly,
Speaker 1: ugly stuff. Anyway, and that was I believe post miles
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, But in any case, it was
Speaker 1: within the LSU program. But in terms of less Miles
Speaker 1: specific alleged actions, it looks like Joe Leiva, the former
Speaker 1: AD of LSU, recommended that they terminate less Miles with
Speaker 1: cause in twenty thirteen after the investigation into what he
Speaker 1: was doing in twenty twelve, and that was shot down
Speaker 1: by people up above his pay grade. In any case,
Speaker 1: the reflection on less Miles now the reflection on Kansas
Speaker 1: and Jeff Long, the current AD one of the people
Speaker 1: that I'm sure was in charge of the vetting of
Speaker 1: less Miles, and it's bad, It's real bad. It's a
Speaker 1: terrible reflection on some pretty horrible, awful accusations.
Speaker 2: Well, and now he's been placed on administrative leaving. As
Speaker 2: we mentioned that that happened on Friday, And to your point,
Speaker 2: it's hard to see how that's going to be a
Speaker 2: tenable situation moving forward.
Speaker 1: Also interesting in retrospect, it's always easier in retrospect. Hi
Speaker 1: in retrospect that less Miles, after the successes he had
Speaker 1: and obviously the shortcomings that he did as a pure
Speaker 1: on field football coach, wins and losses, coach, interviewed for jobs,
Speaker 1: jobs that were looking look like they were far not
Speaker 1: beneath but clearly smaller jobs than what he had at LSU,
Speaker 1: and just was bouncing around like not able to secure
Speaker 1: a job, not able to get an interview at big places,
Speaker 1: not able to nail interviews at smaller places, and perhaps
Speaker 1: in search firm some schools better at vetting than others,
Speaker 1: or makes sense, better able to make peace with moving
Speaker 1: on from less Miles than what Kansas was able to do.
Speaker 1: So it is my assumption that less Miles won't be
Speaker 1: coaching at Kansas this fall, and Kansas once again back
Speaker 1: to the drawing board if that's the case. After a
Speaker 1: string of pretty awful hires in terms of turning Kansas
Speaker 1: football round, Charlie Weiss, Turner, Gale David Beatty and now
Speaker 1: Les Miles who I think probably stood the least chance. Yeah, well, look,
Speaker 1: we to succeed.
Speaker 2: We talked about this time and again here. Yeah, in
Speaker 2: the beginning, the move to go and get less miles
Speaker 2: before any of this stuff was common knowledge, it was
Speaker 2: met with mixed reviews. There was one camp where it
Speaker 2: was like, hey, it's Kansas, what could happen?
Speaker 1: It's less miles.
Speaker 2: He's right, they'll never be able to do better than
Speaker 2: a national championship winning coach, right.
Speaker 1: So there was that school of thought.
Speaker 2: There was the other school of thought, which honestly I
Speaker 2: think was a little bit more vociferous, and that was
Speaker 2: what are we doing here? Why are we going back
Speaker 2: to the Well, we're going to hire an older coach.
Speaker 2: He's not going to have a long shelf life. It's
Speaker 2: more of a pr stunt, right. So, look, whatever camp
Speaker 2: you were in, it doesn't seem like it's in a
Speaker 2: good spot now. It's probably all headed to the same place,
Speaker 2: and Kansas may well find itself in a position soon
Speaker 2: enough where they have to take another crack at hiring
Speaker 2: somebody else. We talked about that situation as well. It's
Speaker 2: the wrong time of year, the wrong time of year,
Speaker 2: but what does it take if you are Kansas, to
Speaker 2: try and dig yourself out of this hole, to move forward,
Speaker 2: to put yourself back on the straight and narrow.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a tough place to do that.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's impossible, but certainly on the heels
Speaker 2: of this it doesn't.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't I should say, leave them in a great spot.
Speaker 1: It's also just an especially awful institutional look that you
Speaker 1: have this outside firm come in and investigate the allegations
Speaker 1: and come to the conclusion that a ton of inappropriate
Speaker 1: activity took place, and the ad say, you know, we
Speaker 1: got to get rid of this kai. And now maybe
Speaker 1: it appears that the judgment was they were not going
Speaker 1: to be able to in court get away with say
Speaker 1: less Miles was terminated for reasonable cause, and that they
Speaker 1: would still have to owe him whatever it was, the
Speaker 1: fifteen million dollars. But such an astonishingly awful institutional look
Speaker 1: for the boss or one of the bosses to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: we got to get rid of this guy. That's my
Speaker 1: appraisal of the situation, and people above him say, now,
Speaker 1: we're good because he's a powerful dude who wins football games.
Speaker 1: It's look, this is a cultural element of this sport.
Speaker 1: We love that we have to make peace with in
Speaker 1: our own way, but man, when specifics come out, it's
Speaker 1: a terrible, terrible thing to read. And I just hope
Speaker 1: the women who were involved with this were able to
Speaker 1: sort of find peace with being treated horribly because I
Speaker 1: can't imagine the situation they were put in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to the point of Booster's Dan, We're not
Speaker 2: going to cover on this show, but I believe a
Speaker 2: report is due out at the University of Texas and
Speaker 2: it seems as if there is a heavy Booster influence
Speaker 2: on that one as well. Regarding we saw the Texas Monthly. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: some other stuff, So more to come on that front.
Speaker 2: We won't get out over our skis there. We'll talk
Speaker 2: a little bit more about that on Thursday.
Speaker 1: But I believe that was an internal investigation turn away, Yeah,
Speaker 1: both into the Eyes of Texas. So I don't know
Speaker 1: whatever stock you put into an institution investigating itself, but yeah,
Speaker 1: that was the foyer stuff of all the emails that
Speaker 1: came in during the Eyes of Texas controversy among players
Speaker 1: and students, finding that the origins of the song were
Speaker 1: not befitting of the University of Texas. So yeah, going
Speaker 1: on more to come on that on Thursday.
Speaker 2: Anything else of note, Dan, anything else in the COLLEGEO
Speaker 2: ball news radar?
Speaker 1: No, I mean We're going to still see more and
Speaker 1: more transfers. I'm interested to see what kind of spring
Speaker 1: football we get with you know, some protocols still in place,
Speaker 1: but people getting vaccinated. We certainly have older coaches, which
Speaker 1: is good news for them if they're able to stay healthy.
Speaker 1: And interesting to see what happens with the transfer portal,
Speaker 1: you know, shifting back to the less important thing, but
Speaker 1: looking what the transfer portal has to offer after spring football,
Speaker 1: Guys getting beat out, guys fully making a decision that
Speaker 1: they want to be somewhere else. It'll be interesting to
Speaker 1: see as the pieces continue to shuffle across the sport.
Speaker 2: Tom Allen got a one million dollar annual raise in
Speaker 2: a new deal for him. Good for him, l e
Speaker 2: O seems like, as we posted on Twitter, a really
Speaker 2: good value by for Indiana. Also, Randy Etzel Randy edzelll
Speaker 2: get a two year extension. How about that at you
Speaker 2: conn our boy? Yeah, I mean we didn't lose this season.
Speaker 2: The feel good story of stores. All right, shall we
Speaker 2: get to our game Djore, let's do that. We put
Speaker 2: out a call on the old Twitter sphere a little
Speaker 2: bit ago around one o'clock Eastern time, and say, look,
Speaker 2: your team in this scenario, it's not Alabama, it's not Clemson,
Speaker 2: it's not Ohio State. What is your team's win slash
Speaker 2: bowl ceiling? It can be either your current team's potential,
Speaker 2: your team's potential potential, it could be another team altogether,
Speaker 2: any timebox you want to put on it, right, But
Speaker 2: tell us more about your team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want to tell me your team doesn't
Speaker 1: have a ceiling of a certain number of games or
Speaker 1: a certain bowl game, but you just want to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: my team has a ceiling of competent competitive vibes, I'm
Speaker 1: good with that. That's a ceiling for sure.
Speaker 2: So we got a very specific one here from a
Speaker 2: gentleman who goes by j Train of Jolly on Twitter.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, can can we define things as
Speaker 1: well before we talk about it? Sure? So to you
Speaker 1: what determines the ceiling, like when you are going to
Speaker 1: weigh in on any of these teams, Penn State, Nebraska, Utah,
Speaker 1: Texas Tech, whatever, What What do you think about? What?
Speaker 1: What helps? What propels a team to its ceiling, like,
Speaker 1: there are a number of factors, right, sure, So what
Speaker 1: are you considering in terms of like how a team
Speaker 1: actually gets there where? What propels a rocket? Boosters? What
Speaker 1: are the that's a good wal tied to college football?
Speaker 1: I think boosters. What are the boosters here?
Speaker 2: I think that's the more interesting way to frame the question,
Speaker 2: because anybody could say Notre Dame ceiling is probably making
Speaker 2: the playoffs and as somebody pointed out, losing by two
Speaker 2: to three scores. Okay, anybody can.
Speaker 1: Mean it's one of the more proven situations. Yeah football, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's it's not exactly guess and check, but anybody can
Speaker 2: put a number on it and say, well, case State,
Speaker 2: case States may be a low key Big twelve contender.
Speaker 1: I would agree, Yeah, I mean I went to the
Speaker 1: Fiesta bal within the decade, I believe. I think I
Speaker 1: think the real question that is how to get there? What?
Speaker 2: What is what is the propellant to get that team
Speaker 2: to that place?
Speaker 1: It's a combination of factors.
Speaker 2: First off, I think it's got to be something on
Speaker 2: the recruiting slash talent development front.
Speaker 1: If you're not recruiting.
Speaker 2: Well well enough, if you're not like Matt Campbell and
Speaker 2: developing the talent that you get. It's going to be
Speaker 2: hard to try and build up anything right. Secondly, I
Speaker 2: think you need to have some degree of coaching stability.
Speaker 2: You know, poor Florida State, Florida Florida State has had
Speaker 2: so much coaching turnover in the last five years.
Speaker 1: It's tough to establish momentum. It is hard. How do
Speaker 1: you do it? Or if you're swapping out.
Speaker 2: Coordinators like we've seen, like, it's hard, it's hard to
Speaker 2: establish that momentum. So combination obviously of recruiting, developing talent,
Speaker 2: some amount of coaching stability. Doesn't mean like everybody has
Speaker 2: to stay, but you need to at least have an
Speaker 2: Alabama situation. You've got a good, strong leader at the
Speaker 2: top to set the tone and establish a template for
Speaker 2: those underlings. And then I would also say that you know,
Speaker 2: there needs to be a favorable setup with your schedule,
Speaker 2: with your conference. There needs to be an opening. It
Speaker 2: needs to be an opening. I'm not going to come
Speaker 2: out here and say that I feel great about Mississippi
Speaker 2: State's chances to win the SEC West. I'm not right,
Speaker 2: it's not realistic. What's the opening there?
Speaker 1: What needle.
Speaker 2: Are we threading to get to the top of the
Speaker 2: SEC West? It does not feel realistic to me. Now,
Speaker 2: could a team like I don't know, Virginia pave a
Speaker 2: way to win it's side of the ACC maybe good
Speaker 2: talk about that seems more practical to me.
Speaker 1: But we got to be realistic. Well, I was just
Speaker 1: going to say, it's it's sort of nature versus nature.
Speaker 1: It's the nature of your own wiring. So whatever you're
Speaker 1: able to do to control things internally and then the
Speaker 1: nature of your division or conference. Now, the easiest way
Speaker 1: to hit your ceiling is to have amazing coaches and
Speaker 1: amazing players. You're going to beat everybody you play if
Speaker 1: you have essentially, I mean, you will likely beat everybody
Speaker 1: you play if you have a talent and coaching advantage.
Speaker 1: Now short of that, which is why we said, I
Speaker 1: don't want to hear from Alabama, Ohio State, and Clemson
Speaker 1: fans because that's the scenario with them, and I guess,
Speaker 1: to a smaller extent Oklahoma, but they seem to be
Speaker 1: losing it at least a more it's a more common occurrence.
Speaker 1: And that's still an Oklahoma team than program that's just
Speaker 1: elite and excellent. I think the point you made about
Speaker 1: situation is fascinating to me. So if you take that
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, I believe Kansas State team, that's Colin Klein,
Speaker 1: and that's a big twelve that has this incredible axis
Speaker 1: of mediocrity Texas five and four, Oklahoma State five and four,
Speaker 1: Baler four and five, TCU four and five, Texas Tech
Speaker 1: four and five, West Virginia four and five. So if
Speaker 1: you are able to prove that you are good, maybe
Speaker 1: not great, but good to really good in a conference
Speaker 1: with a lot of sh medium, then you rise. Now
Speaker 1: you can also get to a point where you are
Speaker 1: hitting on all cylinders. So let's say you have one
Speaker 1: of the best, and I think this is the situation
Speaker 1: for teams basically everybody in college football. You probably need
Speaker 1: to have one of your five to seven best quarterbacks ever, right, No,
Speaker 1: I think that's an element. I think you have to
Speaker 1: have health luck. I think you need to have health situation. Well, yeah, health,
Speaker 1: lack of attrition, which you mentioned, especially with coaches, but
Speaker 1: I even think just you know, you don't have a
Speaker 1: position group decimated by injuries, and so we have teams
Speaker 1: that have made the playoff have gone to conference championship games,
Speaker 1: gone to New Year six games that don't necessarily find
Speaker 1: themselves in that position a lot. So you look at
Speaker 1: you know, Michigan State and Iowa, and you know Washington
Speaker 1: made up playoff game, and you know, Stanford had a
Speaker 1: really nice run. But and this is not an asterisk
Speaker 1: territory that I'm going to, but there are a finite
Speaker 1: number of wins to be had in a conference. And
Speaker 1: if there are a bunch of ohn eight two and
Speaker 1: sevens one in six, whatever it is, in the bottom
Speaker 1: of that conference, you just you can pick up wins.
Speaker 1: You can pick up cheap wins in those conferences, and
Speaker 1: it makes it so much easier to get to I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't say this in a bad way, but like
Speaker 1: Syracuse a couple of years ago, they picked up cheap wins.
Speaker 1: And that's okay because that's what good teams and good
Speaker 1: programs do all the time. You look at Clemson. Clemson
Speaker 1: has hit their ceiling and they're still at their ceiling.
Speaker 1: But it coincides with Florida State throwing a bunch of
Speaker 1: wins to the acc right right right, And that's okay
Speaker 1: because that's what excellent teams do. And so you know,
Speaker 1: Colorado pops up and wins the Pac twelve West the
Speaker 1: year under Mike McIntyre. I believe that was a four
Speaker 1: and eight Oregon season. So you have these situations that
Speaker 1: teams that are not winning nine, ten to eleven games,
Speaker 1: eight games, whatever, that all that often you need to rise.
Speaker 1: And we make this analogy sometimes where it's really good
Speaker 1: to draft behind the opportunity truck. So when things start
Speaker 1: falling off, you're right there. You're at like what is
Speaker 1: the you want to road podcast or what's the name
Speaker 1: of the unit that you want to pick up to
Speaker 1: upgrade your audio.
Speaker 2: We're looking at the road cast pro at the moment.
Speaker 1: Road cast or pro. Yeah, So if you're you just
Speaker 1: want to be drafted off that road cast or pro
Speaker 1: truck and if a few fall off and nobody says
Speaker 1: anything there, you were to pick them up, Tie.
Speaker 2: I would be fine with that. I would so fine
Speaker 2: with that.
Speaker 1: In this scenario, like a team who hasn't necessarily been
Speaker 1: winning a bunch of games and is suddenly looking excellent
Speaker 1: Iowa State. Iowa State is in this position because they
Speaker 1: have a good coach, they look like they have a
Speaker 1: good culture, they look like they've recruited really smartly and
Speaker 1: developed really well. But also there are some extremely down
Speaker 1: teams in the Big twelve right now, and so Iowa
Speaker 1: State is good enough to pick up those wins drafting
Speaker 1: behind the opportunity truck. How about so.
Speaker 2: How about Indiana? In twenty twenty, Indiana had their quarterback
Speaker 2: go down too. Yep, their quarterback went down and they
Speaker 2: still turned in an incredible season.
Speaker 1: Weird year, blah blah blah. We all know that.
Speaker 2: But if you want to talk about how you build it,
Speaker 2: Tom Allen's been doing the slow burn. It has been
Speaker 2: the slow burn. I'm not going to say recruiting has
Speaker 2: been off the charts, but he's done a really good
Speaker 2: job developing the talent there. He's done a really good job,
Speaker 2: I think, building that culture from within. And it just
Speaker 2: so happens that in twenty twenty we had a situation
Speaker 2: where Penn State was down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Michigan, Michigan was down. Penn State and Michigan combined
Speaker 1: to go six and nine. Nice, So it's in Michigan
Speaker 1: State's two and five, like the like. These are the
Speaker 1: things that the opportunity truck presents, And maybe it wasn't
Speaker 1: Maryland's ere to take advantage, or Wisconsin's eer or Minnesota's
Speaker 1: here to take advantage. But when everything tends to come together,
Speaker 1: quarterback depth, upper classmen, coaches and players on the same page,
Speaker 1: that's when you get the nine Windiana pursuit. And we
Speaker 1: see it every year.
Speaker 2: Every year there's a team that benefits, and it could
Speaker 2: be from schedule, it could be from a number of
Speaker 2: different factors, maybe getting a top recruit, a diamond in
Speaker 2: the rough. We see this pretty constantly throughout college football.
Speaker 2: Each year there's a different team that kind of steps
Speaker 2: up and bubbles up in a way that a lot
Speaker 2: of folks didn't see coming. And that's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 2: We're not necessarily talking about continued success with this question.
Speaker 2: We're just talking about what's the ceiling. If there's that
Speaker 2: one year spike, what's the ceiling.
Speaker 1: Isn't that Also, by the way, the enduring success and
Speaker 1: reputation and legacy of Nick say been that up SEC
Speaker 1: down SEC doesn't matter, coaches leave, coaches, state doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: every year doesn't matter. Greatest coach of all time, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they've been the most. I'm not gonna say there isn't
Speaker 1: some context, but the most context free winning program. Because
Speaker 1: you look at the other programs who sustained success for
Speaker 1: four or five, seven, nine years or whatever, you can
Speaker 1: say like, oh, well, this other superpower was extremely down
Speaker 1: even like my team, the Oregon Ducks, USC was sloping
Speaker 1: downward because of the sanctions as Oregon was ascending. And
Speaker 1: you look at the PAC twelve and USC was incredible,
Speaker 1: not all that great. So, but there's something with Alabama,
Speaker 1: which is why we're not talking about them, because they've
Speaker 1: already proven the case out that their ceiling is above
Speaker 1: everybody else's historically. That's you need factors plural.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, well let's let's dive in then. So
Speaker 2: we got some really interesting answers on Twitter. Jaytrein Okay says,
Speaker 2: for Florida's ceiling, we could go twelve to one, make
Speaker 2: the playoffs to compete for a national championship. Realistically, though,
Speaker 2: until Todd Grantham either gets fired or somehow the defense improves,
Speaker 2: we will likely be SEC East champions and losing the
Speaker 2: championship game, ending up with a New Year six Bowl game.
Speaker 1: Is it Todd Grantham?
Speaker 2: Dan?
Speaker 1: Is it Todd Grantham holding Florida Beck? I don't know.
Speaker 1: We've had good Todd Grantham defenses, but have we had
Speaker 1: championship caliber Todd Grantham defenses. Unclear to me. I don't
Speaker 1: think that is. I think part of it is recruiting
Speaker 1: on defense in terms of sheer depth of NFL level
Speaker 1: talent for Florida on defense has fallen off some if
Speaker 1: you look the last couple of years, in the last
Speaker 1: couple of classes and the development thereof. But I think
Speaker 1: he kind of nailed it. I think there's there's something
Speaker 1: lacking with Florida. You have to imagine with I'm sure
Speaker 1: Kyle Trask will be drafted at some point and Dan
Speaker 1: Mullen's quarterback reputation between you know, the little bit of
Speaker 1: Cam Newton, Tim Tebow of course Dak probably not Nick
Speaker 1: Fitzgerald in that conversation, but Kyle Trask turning a backup
Speaker 1: into what Kyle Trask became. They're going to be able
Speaker 1: to recruit quarterbacks, they're going to be able to attract
Speaker 1: skill talent, and they'll be able to attract NFL talent.
Speaker 1: But that defense right now seems to be a not
Speaker 1: clearly solvable issue under Todd Grantham.
Speaker 2: And my how quickly things have turned because it wasn't
Speaker 2: all that long ago we were talking about Florida like
Speaker 2: we were talking about Michigan, a team that was led
Speaker 2: primarily by defense, offense really none to speak of. It
Speaker 2: seems as if a lot of that has flipped Florida.
Speaker 2: No questions about Florida's offense, but getting that defense now
Speaker 2: up to speed, I think is.
Speaker 1: Going to be job number one for Dan Mullen. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When Jeff Collins was running things, it was incredible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I I think I tend to agree. This
Speaker 2: is another one though, where situationally, it's very difficult. It's
Speaker 2: very difficult to get past that SEC championship game and
Speaker 2: forge ahead into the playoff because in all likelihood you're
Speaker 2: dealing with an undefeated Alabama and that's just not an
Speaker 2: easy scenario. I don't care who you are, how good
Speaker 2: your players are, going up against luck Saban in this
Speaker 2: current mold is really difficult.
Speaker 1: All that said, Florida's ceiling potentially, because we've seen it
Speaker 1: in the last now fifteen years. It's a player national
Speaker 1: championship caliber program.
Speaker 2: It's a playoffs, it's competing for national championship for sure.
Speaker 1: For sure. Heisman conversation quarterback plus NFL level speed and
Speaker 1: creativity on offense, and health on defense and sound defensive
Speaker 1: scheme and development, they can beat Alabama. They were within
Speaker 1: not that many points this year when the defense was
Speaker 1: not all that amazing. So if they're actors together on defense,
Speaker 1: their ceiling is Dan Mullum holding up a trophy to me,
Speaker 1: there are one of the very few clear national championship
Speaker 1: caliber programs because of the level of talent that can
Speaker 1: be amassed in Gainesville.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we have a couple teams that I think
Speaker 2: fall into that category. And these are true national championship
Speaker 2: let's put this way, true playoff contenders who if all
Speaker 2: goes right, could potentially get a crack at the title.
Speaker 2: Oklahoma falls into that category. I think are wrung above Florida.
Speaker 2: It's an easier path to get there for the Sooners.
Speaker 1: They've been there.
Speaker 2: Oklahoma falls in that category. Georgia certainly falls in that
Speaker 2: category as well. Maybe a rung about both of them,
Speaker 2: to be honest, given recent success. Notre Dames in that conversation,
Speaker 2: they've made the playoff a couple times now would obviously
Speaker 2: like a different result when they get there, But they're
Speaker 2: certainly in that discussion. Where's Oregon at is organ that
Speaker 2: playoff conversation continuously, Well.
Speaker 1: First of all, I want to sort of dive into
Speaker 1: a little bit of Oklahoma just because their ceiling is
Speaker 1: with a good defense, they can win a national championship,
Speaker 1: good like top fifteen in the country, which they are
Speaker 1: trending in the right direction right now, and they have
Speaker 1: found themselves in national championship games they want last won
Speaker 1: a national championship what twenty twenty one years ago, So
Speaker 1: the talent, the ability to find a best five or
Speaker 1: seven quarterback of all time is there. So they're a
Speaker 1: national championship caliber program. Even though recent results suggest that
Speaker 1: their ceiling is just short of that. That does not
Speaker 1: seem like an unfixable thing or a situation where they're
Speaker 1: just not going to be able to attract the talent
Speaker 1: to fill out a deep, nasty defense. So yeah, they
Speaker 1: absolutely do have that. Oregon does seem like they have
Speaker 1: a more pronounced ceiling just because I mean, the path
Speaker 1: is fantastic right now. There is no clear and obvious
Speaker 1: threat in the Pac twelve North. And in terms of
Speaker 1: a proven commodity, a killerrette quarterback, you know, all the
Speaker 1: things that you'd like to see. The problem is Oregon
Speaker 1: themselves does not have a proven quarterback, but they have
Speaker 1: been one of the best schools in the country in
Speaker 1: terms of attracting high level quarterbacks and developing high level quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: They've had a recent Heisman winner. They just they attract
Speaker 1: good players. The problem to me with Oregon is when
Speaker 1: they get to the playoff, and I know they beat
Speaker 1: Florida State, they're I think the only Pac twelve team
Speaker 1: with a playoff win. Believe that's true. The problem is
Speaker 1: once they're there, there is an element of organ that
Speaker 1: under Mario Cristaball I don't fully trust in terms of
Speaker 1: stubbornness and what and I know they're getting very close
Speaker 1: in terms of total depth of talent. There is something
Speaker 1: that scares me. Now. They were essentially Michael Dyer away
Speaker 1: from winning a national championship, so I would say they are,
Speaker 1: you know, a careless whisper away from being a national
Speaker 1: championship program. But I think they're ceiling right now.
Speaker 2: Is playoff team, yeah, and they do have a favorable
Speaker 2: pathway in But the problem is the problem is this
Speaker 2: trying to get in over in Oklahoma, trying to get
Speaker 2: in over a team out of the Big Ten, the ACC.
Speaker 1: The SEC.
Speaker 2: It's it's a difficult spot for the Pac twelve to
Speaker 2: be in because I feel like it, like it was
Speaker 2: one thing, and this is probably the wrong way to
Speaker 2: put it, but when Oregon under Chip Kelly was setting
Speaker 2: the world on fire with its Neon uniforms and crazy
Speaker 2: fun to watch offense, that was a team that, again,
Speaker 2: rightly or wrongly, you wanted to see in the playoff.
Speaker 2: You wanted to see that team in the TV.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a.
Speaker 2: Different Oregon team. It's still a good Oregon team. It's
Speaker 2: a more physical Oregon team under Marrio Crystoball. And I'm
Speaker 2: not saying I don't want to see them in the playoff.
Speaker 2: But it's a much different conversation now when you've got
Speaker 2: high flying Oklahoma, when you've got unstoppable Alabama and Clemson,
Speaker 2: and then you've got a team like an Ohio State
Speaker 2: or a Penn State or even a Notre Dame. It's
Speaker 2: it's a difficult conversation, a much more difficult conversation to
Speaker 2: have nowadays than it was under Chip Kelly.
Speaker 1: In my Here's the other thing, and this I think
Speaker 1: has to do with everybody, but it's how good are
Speaker 1: you at attracting a high level head coach who then
Speaker 1: can recruit both coaches and players to that program, retain
Speaker 1: those coaches for as long as humanly possible if they're very,
Speaker 1: very good, and then go out and have to replace
Speaker 1: often if you do have a good eye for assistant coaches.
Speaker 1: Oregon hired Willie Taggart. Oregon couldn't attract the head coach
Speaker 1: of Temple to Eugene Oregon. He instead took the job
Speaker 1: in Waco because he felt like that was going to
Speaker 1: be and now they gave him a seven year deal
Speaker 1: and I understand that. But Baylor, who has had no
Speaker 1: real history recently, I know, you know, they have the
Speaker 1: Brill's years where they score a ton of points and
Speaker 1: they have a good national team. But Oregon has been
Speaker 1: a better program, and a coach selects Baylor over Oregon,
Speaker 1: and so they go to Willie Taggert. It's how far
Speaker 1: down the roster of backup offers to head coaches do
Speaker 1: you have to go? And that's where, like you mentioned
Speaker 1: a team like Oklahoma or Notre Dame, even though their results,
Speaker 1: you know they've they've had similar stretches. Both Oklahoma and
Speaker 1: Notre Dame and are a better place right now? Is
Speaker 1: what can you attract to that place in terms of
Speaker 1: coaching talent, And that's yet to be seen as a
Speaker 1: strength of Oregon right now. Their best coach ever was
Speaker 1: a New Hampshire offensive coordinator, which is not necessarily a
Speaker 1: sustainable model for success. So that to me lowers their sealing.
Speaker 1: That careless whisper.
Speaker 2: Notre Dame, I think is a true quarterback away. You know,
Speaker 2: we've covered this ground time and again. There a true
Speaker 2: quarterback away from I think getting to that playoff and
Speaker 2: being a serious threat.
Speaker 1: Here's a question, though, and I want to tie both
Speaker 1: of your teams together because we got responses about both
Speaker 1: of these teams. Why can't Notre Dame and Penn State
Speaker 1: find a high high level recruit or develop a medium
Speaker 1: to high level recruit into something special. So Penn State's
Speaker 1: best modern quarterback was I guess, depending on your vantage point,
Speaker 1: either freshman year Christian Hackenberg or twenty was it twenty seventeen?
Speaker 1: Twenty eighteen, No, twenty seventeen, Trace mcsoriy, Trace McSorley. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: So you have one season of excellence or very goodness
Speaker 1: from Trace mcsory. But then you go back ten fifteen
Speaker 1: years you're like, well, I mean Darryl Clark was fun,
Speaker 1: but like, they just have not been able to traditionally.
Speaker 1: Matt mcgloin's fine, but they are not able to both
Speaker 1: of these schools. You have a really good statistical year
Speaker 1: from Jimmy Claus in a losing season. What is it
Speaker 1: about those two places? And I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: have an answer. Maybe you do. Well, it's like they
Speaker 1: can't find it. They can't find and develop a like
Speaker 1: let's have a conversation deep into October about whether this
Speaker 1: quarterback is Heisman caliber. Yeah, I mean I.
Speaker 2: Hate looking back like twenty five years. I let's say so,
Speaker 2: let's keep it. Let's keep it in the present with
Speaker 2: the current situation. The Penn State one is easy. James
Speaker 2: Franklin and Christian Hackenberg wasn't exactly a marriage made in heaven.
Speaker 2: But the trace Big Sorely thing under Joe moorehead was
Speaker 2: electric and that was exciting and that propelled the early
Speaker 2: part of Franklin's tenure in State College. I mean, it
Speaker 2: just it was incredible. Trace Saquon Chris Godwin on some
Speaker 2: of those teams like these are really awesome college players
Speaker 2: who that offense. Yeah, for sure. So look, I think
Speaker 2: there's definitely a lot less to go on with Franklin
Speaker 2: than someone like a Brian Kelly. But on Franklin's side,
Speaker 2: the Clifford thing hasn't worked out the last two years.
Speaker 2: I'm all but certain they're going to end up going
Speaker 2: in a different direction. I don't know if it's with
Speaker 2: a guy like a Taekwon Roberson or if it's Christian
Speaker 2: v Oh, they're going to go in a different direction.
Speaker 2: I think they have to at quarterback and especially bringing
Speaker 2: in Mike Yersich, I just think it's inevitable that Clifford's
Speaker 2: not long for that job. On the Notre Dame side
Speaker 2: of things, you know, it's really an interesting case for
Speaker 2: Brian Kelly because so much of the recruiting elsewhere has
Speaker 2: been awesome. They have done a great job turning out
Speaker 2: pro talent along both offensive end defensive lines. They've developed
Speaker 2: the tight end position, they've had standout wide receivers, the
Speaker 2: two spots I guess.
Speaker 1: All American defenders. Yeah, yeah, the.
Speaker 2: Two spots that I guess I would point to or
Speaker 2: really haven't had that high high level talent cornerback and
Speaker 2: I think quar turnback.
Speaker 1: They just haven't they.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's big, and you know what affects you against
Speaker 2: the past, the other inhibits your ability to pass. And
Speaker 2: they've had flashes here and there. You know, that first
Speaker 2: year with Deshaun Kais was really good. Even the second
Speaker 2: year under Deshaun Kaiser was pretty good, but even that
Speaker 2: felt a little bit like catching lightning in a bottle.
Speaker 2: It was by virtue of an injury that they were.
Speaker 1: But it's all relative to their ceiling as well. Pretty
Speaker 1: good is not going to get you to Notre Dame.
Speaker 1: Notre Dame ceiling is. I think it is where we
Speaker 1: see it. I think it's right. I think it's right there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think I think they're a national championship caliber
Speaker 1: program with like an additional half a booster, Like what
Speaker 1: with what they have right now, they're going to peter
Speaker 1: out as a playoff team. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, you could argue, you could argue that the job
Speaker 2: that Ryan Kelly did with Ian Book was outstanding, that
Speaker 2: he developed him into a good enough quarterback to run
Speaker 2: a system, a specific system that got them through to
Speaker 2: the playoff. That was a successful campaign that was like
Speaker 2: the most successful quarterback campaign in the history of Notre
Speaker 2: Dame quarterback campaigns in terms of wins and losses. Ebook
Speaker 2: was very good. He just wasn't good enough to elevate
Speaker 2: them above the likes of like a Trevor Lawrence. And
Speaker 2: that's saying something, right, that's pretty damn good. Why haven't
Speaker 2: they got that generational quarterback yet?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just dumb luck. I don't have an answer.
Speaker 2: I don't have a specific answer for that. Guys who
Speaker 2: are supposed to be that, but I don't know. I
Speaker 2: think a lot of it too. And it goes to
Speaker 2: Penn State as well. Is it's not just recruiting, it's
Speaker 2: recruiting strategy because if I remember correctly, Penn State had
Speaker 2: a commitment from Justin Fields and so the evaluation was there.
Speaker 2: Justin Field was a no brainer as a recruit. James
Speaker 2: Franklin convinced him to go to Penn State from Georgia.
Speaker 2: Is that smart to put your eggs in the basket
Speaker 2: of a quarterback that far away, who is that pursued
Speaker 2: and lives in a state and a region now obviously
Speaker 2: ends up leaving the region. But is that smart given
Speaker 2: the precious, he's going to feel to stay home to
Speaker 2: risk it all. It probably is because you have to
Speaker 2: have that kind of confidence in a program of Penn
Speaker 2: State size, that you have the confidence that, like, of course,
Speaker 2: the best quarterback in the country or one of the
Speaker 2: best two quarterbacks in the country is going to come
Speaker 2: to our school.
Speaker 1: We are Penn State. Literally it says we are, So
Speaker 1: you have to have that confidence. But also when it
Speaker 1: doesn't work out, if there's no not necessarily backup plan,
Speaker 1: but no way to organize around not getting that guy,
Speaker 1: it feels like a risk without much of a net.
Speaker 1: And that's what now has come to fruition, it seems. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, some other responsible way I think. I think
Speaker 1: Penn State ceiling is opponent irrelevant. So the best of
Speaker 1: Penn State can win the Big Ten, no matter how
Speaker 1: good or bad Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, whoever is
Speaker 1: because the best of Penn State involves an excellent defense
Speaker 1: and a creative, effective offense. So the best of Penn State,
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a playoff winning team, but
Speaker 1: it's a playoff semi team. It's a playoff semi team
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Some other answers that we got here. I'll run the
Speaker 2: full spectrum from National power to Missouri.
Speaker 1: Whoa unnecessary slam at Missoo, we love you Como at
Speaker 1: least I do, Davis says with drink Witz at Missoo.
Speaker 2: I have to say my expectations are to eventually have
Speaker 2: nine to ten win seasons. That feels like the ceiling now,
Speaker 2: giving the trend in the SEC. I'll tell you if
Speaker 2: Mszoos win a ten games, it's a hell of a year.
Speaker 2: And I like you I drink, I like Eli Drink.
Speaker 1: It's a lot.
Speaker 2: Excuse me, but it might take a little bit to
Speaker 2: get there. But I do believe in him. Uh he's excitable.
Speaker 2: You gotta love that about him.
Speaker 1: Miszoos won the East twice in the last decade. If
Speaker 1: my math is correct, Yes, I've ended up in the
Speaker 1: SEC championship game. I think that's probably the ceiling and
Speaker 1: their opponent dependent very much so very much so. Georgia Florida,
Speaker 1: Georgia Florida, both Georgia Florida. One of the two needs
Speaker 1: to be down. I have no idea what to make
Speaker 1: of Tennessee long term, because nobody does other than just
Speaker 1: like expect a little bit less than you think you should.
Speaker 1: So they're opponent dependent, but also they've proven themselves able
Speaker 1: to attract talent and develop talent. Now it's hard to say,
Speaker 1: just like Missoo in general because these are different coaches.
Speaker 1: Is a different program, but the program is set up
Speaker 1: to win the programs in a major conference. The program,
Speaker 1: when they do succeed a little bit, can attract talent.
Speaker 1: I think they are ten wins in the short term
Speaker 1: seems ambitious. I'd put them at probably nine with help.
Speaker 1: But if things break and the health is unusually amazing, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's winning the East. It's absolutely winning the East, especially
Speaker 1: if they have a bunch of upperclassmen and one of
Speaker 1: the quote unquote traditional powers in Georgia Florida is you know,
Speaker 1: hitting a run of mediocrity.
Speaker 2: We've got Vandy here. The number one goal the next
Speaker 2: three years is a winning season, including a bowl win.
Speaker 2: Ceiling for US is likely number three in the SEC
Speaker 2: East in a complimentary bowl game outside of the state,
Speaker 2: hopefully in parentheses. Clerk Lee taking over at Vandy. We
Speaker 2: know that clerk Lee.
Speaker 1: Really wanted that job.
Speaker 2: He really wanted that job because he could have held
Speaker 2: out with the defense. He had built at Notre Dame
Speaker 2: and gotten a higher profile gig. There was any question
Speaker 2: about that, but he wanted Vandy. He has a familiarity
Speaker 2: with Vandy, and it excitedly took that job. A winning
Speaker 2: season has been done. It has been done. James Franklin
Speaker 2: did it at Vandy. Derek Mason, you know from the grow.
Speaker 1: But interesting stretches of defense.
Speaker 2: I think I think that's entirely possible in the next
Speaker 2: three years at Vandy under Clarkley.
Speaker 1: So twenty twelve, Vanderbilt goes nine to four, five and
Speaker 1: three in the SEC and they finished the season ranked
Speaker 1: in the top twenty five. Amaze. No, you probably don't
Speaker 1: have the standings in front of you, but I do.
Speaker 1: Do you know how many wins these six teams or
Speaker 1: just the bottom six teams that year Missoo, Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Auburn, Ole,
Speaker 1: miss combined to win in the SEC. Six teams combined
Speaker 1: to win five games Miszoo two and six, Tennessee one
Speaker 1: and seven, Kentucky, Ohn eight. That's a joker Phillips team,
Speaker 1: Arkansas two and six, Auburn O and eight. Jean Chisick
Speaker 1: gets fired. That's the Scott Leffler BVG year Ole miss
Speaker 1: Oho to five. I believe this is Hugh Freeze's first
Speaker 1: that they vacated Wins.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the opportunity truck we were talking about earlier.
Speaker 1: So Vandy needs that, you know, that air horn Hong Hong.
Speaker 1: They they are so dependent. Now what is Vandy's ceiling
Speaker 1: in terms of what they can do within the program? Well,
Speaker 1: they can recruit smart. I mean, obviously Clark Lee is
Speaker 1: looking at his job as can I be the Pat
Speaker 1: Fitzgerald of the SEC East, in which year over year,
Speaker 1: basically forever and ever, there's a baseline and a floor
Speaker 1: that's pretty high of competence that they get guys who
Speaker 1: buy in. They play a very specific system in both
Speaker 1: cases defense and offensively, searching for efficiency as the absolute best,
Speaker 1: probably because that's what Northwestern has been able to get
Speaker 1: by with. But right now and in the long term,
Speaker 1: I feel actually pretty good about Vanderbilt getting somewhat close
Speaker 1: to the opportunity truck because the East is not in
Speaker 1: an amazing place. South Carolina is starting over again Miszoo
Speaker 1: and its infancy with a new coach, Tennessee, Kentucky starting over,
Speaker 1: Kentucky not starting over but they are down right now.
Speaker 1: It's because of that offense, but they've had a good
Speaker 1: defense and they did just hit a ceiling recently. So Kentucky,
Speaker 1: I would say, is a decent spot. I'd take it back.
Speaker 1: But Mississippi State's in a down place in infancy. Arkansas interesting,
Speaker 1: but you know it's going to take a while. Auburn's
Speaker 1: starting over, Ole miss starting over but promising, but defense
Speaker 1: was pretty atrocious. So Vandy has a truck opportunity, but
Speaker 1: they don't internally have much. So I'd say with the
Speaker 1: right drafting, I'll put it right now long term at six, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think that's the and it's a good
Speaker 1: expert winning season. I guess if you get crazy lucky
Speaker 1: with a bowl match up, yeah, you can get to
Speaker 1: seven and six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's going to require you to win
Speaker 2: what two sec games.
Speaker 1: To s Yeah, it'll required no, maybe three, two or
Speaker 1: three on the table. Three with your non con it
Speaker 1: probably means getting either extremely lucky with a high school quarterback,
Speaker 1: or Clark Lee and his coaching staff clicking with a
Speaker 1: pretty good transfer, a proven transfer having a good defense.
Speaker 1: The Nashville thing is interesting to me. I am not
Speaker 1: a big believer. I've said this before in being able
Speaker 1: to recruit to bigger cities and hit ceilings in those
Speaker 1: big cities. I guess we'll see with Texas. But right now,
Speaker 1: in the modern era, I think there's so much distracting
Speaker 1: about recruiting to a city as opposed to a town
Speaker 1: that I don't know. I don't know if Nashville is
Speaker 1: the allure that it is to sports writers as it
Speaker 1: is like seventeen year olds. But here's what you hear
Speaker 1: a lot of sports writers saying, oh my god, it's
Speaker 1: a no brainer, I can go to college in Nashville.
Speaker 1: Like I don't think. I think kids just want to
Speaker 1: go where they get developed to be NFL players now.
Speaker 2: But my point on Vandy is they're not exactly scheduling
Speaker 2: goliaths in the non con. They've got a game against
Speaker 2: Stanton think this coming year, which is a nice game
Speaker 2: for them, But otherwise Eastern Tennessee, Colorado State, Yukon, those
Speaker 2: are winnable games.
Speaker 1: Those are winnable games.
Speaker 2: In a circumstance where Clarkley has built up something of
Speaker 2: a of a foundation, you can win those games. So
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think I think six and six
Speaker 2: is is right for that? Let's go through some other
Speaker 2: ones here real quick. So I mentioned UCF, and Josh says,
Speaker 2: I went to UCF. I know for a fact the
Speaker 2: ceiling is New Year's New Year's Bowl Game. I got
Speaker 2: the receipts to prove it too. The group of five
Speaker 2: teams very interesting to me. Okay, very interesting to me
Speaker 2: because the obvious answer is, of course New Year's six,
Speaker 2: rightly or wrongly. Is there a scenario in which a
Speaker 2: group of five teams ceiling is actually the playoffs?
Speaker 1: No, but I still think it's fascinating it does. The
Speaker 1: playoff doesn't matter to me with regard to I mean,
Speaker 1: basically most teams in twenty twenty one. No, I guess depends.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna stick with no. But I'm curious about
Speaker 1: certain schools that have had success or should have success
Speaker 1: on the G five level, which is still the FBS level.
Speaker 1: What schools are interesting to you five? I mean, like
Speaker 1: you see, if we know yep, we know they can
Speaker 1: go undefeated, they can beat good teams that are Power
Speaker 1: five teams. Whatever. Houston, I think, ah man, it felt
Speaker 1: like they were hitting that with Tom Herman with some
Speaker 1: flaws offensive flaws they should be. I don't think they
Speaker 1: will be under Dana Holgerson. But yeah that Houston has
Speaker 1: that that high high ceiling. Cincinnati has that hig high ceiling.
Speaker 1: Cincinnati absolutely does.
Speaker 2: See Cincinnati has the defensive component that oftentimes you don't
Speaker 2: see from group of fives. That that's been the knock
Speaker 2: right on teams like UF in the past.
Speaker 1: We've had some really good Boise defenses, San Diego State defenses,
Speaker 1: but yeah, on that high high New Year six level, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, I mean you defense is essentially what led
Speaker 1: them to that season. But yeah, I mean they have
Speaker 1: this crazy efficient offense and fun offense, but it is
Speaker 1: the defense that was really doing a lion's share of
Speaker 1: the work. I'm gonna say, Yeah, I'm trying to think, like,
Speaker 1: who is the most fascinating group of five teams in
Speaker 1: terms of a ceiling we have hit yet? We know
Speaker 1: Boise State ceiling. Yeah, But like, so is it Fresn.
Speaker 1: You know, San Jose was definitely an opportunity situation with
Speaker 1: a down Fresno and San Diego State lost a couple
Speaker 1: of times. I believe it's just weird season in general,
Speaker 1: but they really improve things internally. But man. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know we like to focus on the American but
Speaker 1: I don't know. Conference USA, like Charlotte has an interesting ceiling.
Speaker 1: They go on that run a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: But I don't know if you're good in that area.
Speaker 1: It's tough to become a forty nine er. It's tough
Speaker 1: to like build up that that class of killers year
Speaker 1: over year, just because you know, if Will Healy goes
Speaker 1: whatever ten and two, this, he's gone. He's just gonna
Speaker 1: He's gone.
Speaker 2: He's gone, all right. Some other answers here that came in.
Speaker 2: Nicholas writes in about Michigan. He says, Michigan's ceiling is
Speaker 2: to start ten and one, be competitive again to Ohio
Speaker 2: State in the first half, and then lose a bowl
Speaker 2: game somewhere in the state of Florida. A pessimistic fan
Speaker 2: of the Wolverines, Nicholas, what is.
Speaker 1: Michigan's ceiling are they? I mean, Michigan fans, obviously, what
Speaker 1: have you believed that they're a national champion caliber program?
Speaker 1: It's haven't they haven't been to the playoff?
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is where this is where there's a room
Speaker 2: for interpretation historically, historically now Michigan's absolutely a national championship
Speaker 2: caliber program. It's a blue blood historically. Recently, though, the
Speaker 2: way things have been trending, I think Nicholas a spot
Speaker 2: on here. I think the conference championship is sort of
Speaker 2: the upper rung of where we're at. Can they get
Speaker 2: back to being playoff contenders? Absolutely, And I don't think
Speaker 2: it takes much to get them there, because recruiting still
Speaker 2: has been really strong at Michigan. But just if we
Speaker 2: take the pri that we've seen on the field, I mean,
Speaker 2: your absolute upper rung, everything going blessed me, thank you,
Speaker 2: absolute upper rung, everything going according to plan, opportunity truck
Speaker 2: driving in front of you, Ohio State getting a new
Speaker 2: quarterback right in twenty twenty one, Penn State still trying
Speaker 2: to do the thing with Sean Clifford, Michigan finding its way,
Speaker 2: maybe with British comedy legend Allan Bowman. It's probably the
Speaker 2: Big Ten conference at best.
Speaker 1: I think so. I think they just occupying a division
Speaker 1: with Ohio State, who seems to be set up for
Speaker 1: the long term in a way that they're only going
Speaker 1: to grow stronger somehow. It is very difficult to start
Speaker 1: to compete against like It's going to take years for
Speaker 1: Michigan to get to a place where they could just
Speaker 1: happen to beat Ohio State twenty eight to seventeen would
Speaker 1: do it. But the confidence and ability to be a
Speaker 1: program that is eleven points better than Ohio State. We've
Speaker 1: seen Ohio State lose to lesser teams, but Michigan right now,
Speaker 1: it's almost institutional, like, are we willing to do whatever
Speaker 1: it takes? Are we willing to pay coordinators an obscene
Speaker 1: amount of money to keep them if they're excellent and
Speaker 1: everybody's trying to hire them? Are we willing to recruit
Speaker 1: in a fashion that sometimes Michigan is unwilling to allegedly
Speaker 1: And I don't make any value judgments, but that is
Speaker 1: something that separates allegedly Michigan from some of the big, big,
Speaker 1: big national powers that Michigan no longer is. Is there
Speaker 1: that element of Michigan saying internally externally are they broadcasting
Speaker 1: we will do whatever it takes. Now they're paying Jim
Speaker 1: Harbor a bunch of money, though now they're paying them
Speaker 1: less money. They went after a huge fish as a
Speaker 1: head coach and it worked out in terms of they
Speaker 1: got hit. So that was a big success. But with
Speaker 1: regard to developing guys, with regard to saying, look at
Speaker 1: all of these NFL players that we're developing. With regard
Speaker 1: to this is this quarterback who's a Heisman contender, which
Speaker 1: is what all of the schools that they fancy themselves
Speaker 1: to be in the company of Ohio State, Clemson, in Alabama, Jority, Oh,
Speaker 1: you know whatever, Oklahoma, I don't know. I think there
Speaker 1: is still that element of we do things the Capitol
Speaker 1: are right way to Michigan that gives them that ceiling
Speaker 1: that you and was it Nate Nick talked about of Nicholas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: ten to eleven wins, but not competing with Ohio State
Speaker 1: or losing something dumb to Iowa or Wisconsin or Penn
Speaker 1: State or a team like that that is going to
Speaker 1: hold them back from becoming a true killer. I think
Speaker 1: Michigan does self impose and have the bad luck of
Speaker 1: having Ohio State and the division. They they have that ceiling. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: ten and eleven and one not a national championship program.
Speaker 2: I think to go up or wrong, it's without Harball
Speaker 2: at this point. And that's that's not because I think
Speaker 2: Harball is a bad coach. I think it was incredible
Speaker 2: hire to go out and get Jim Harbaugh at there
Speaker 2: was We had conversations I remember what the distinctly conversations
Speaker 2: with Brian Cook from m GO blog around the time
Speaker 2: that these horrorball rumors were heating up. And I'm not
Speaker 2: even sure he believed it. You know, among the most
Speaker 2: connected in the Michigan universe, I'm not even sure he
Speaker 2: believed that that was a possibility. They went out and
Speaker 2: they got him. It's a huge hire. I don't believe it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean neither.
Speaker 2: It hasn't really worked out the way that they had hoped,
Speaker 2: but it was. It was a noble effort and they
Speaker 2: paid for it handsobly. But a noble effort hasn't quite
Speaker 2: worked out. And Harbaugh has this track record of places
Speaker 2: that he's been, whether it's in college or the pros
Speaker 2: or you name it. He sort of burns people out
Speaker 2: around him, and he burns himself out a little bit
Speaker 2: as well. I just don't see him being long for
Speaker 2: ann Arbor. I think if they really want to achieve
Speaker 2: their their maximum, I mean.
Speaker 1: He already is kind of long fran Arbor well, okay
Speaker 1: for seven years or something. Looking forward, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: Moving forward, I don't think it's going to be a
Speaker 2: long term solution, and I think if they want to
Speaker 2: get back to that mountaintop, it's going to be with
Speaker 2: somebody else.
Speaker 1: But they also, for whatever reason, this is just me
Speaker 1: pulling it out of thin air, they feel like in perpetuity,
Speaker 1: how much it takes in terms of luck, in terms
Speaker 1: of recruiting, in terms of coaching and attrition, whatever, that
Speaker 1: they're never going to be a half team, but they
Speaker 1: kind of always will be. If I can contradict myself
Speaker 1: real quick, like they will have a killer quarterback and
Speaker 1: a defense that falls apart like we saw with Denard Robinson.
Speaker 1: They will have this killer defense but start Wilson's spate
Speaker 1: and rely on power that works a lot of the
Speaker 1: time on the ground, But then when they need to
Speaker 1: do something creative, there's nothing there. We're talking about a
Speaker 1: fatal flaw. We're talking about a fatal flaw, and to
Speaker 1: some extent, they're going to be like a one point
Speaker 1: eight too. They're going to be a blink one point
Speaker 1: eight to two team. Yeah, we're talking about a fatal flaw.
Speaker 1: We're talking to some extent about a self fulfilling prophecy,
Speaker 1: at least among the fan base. People sure feeling very pessimistic,
Speaker 1: people who are pessimistic yet somehow still optimistic. Everything blunted
Speaker 1: a little bit with that qualifier. So, okay, Michigan's interesting,
Speaker 1: let's do like two more if you got to Virginia
Speaker 1: Tech pitt TCU. We got responses about all of those Wisconsin.
Speaker 2: Were we out of Virginia Tech's USC What was the
Speaker 2: answer in Virginia Tech?
Speaker 1: Uh? This tweeter said, six wins. I believe, I don't
Speaker 1: know how that's the ceiling. Six wins and making a
Speaker 1: ball feels like a ceiling. I miss when an a
Speaker 1: SEC championship and in an Orange Bowl was the ceiling.
Speaker 1: I suppose maybe he's talking about them as a six
Speaker 1: maybe seven win team because of justin Flente and the
Speaker 1: depths to which recruiting has fallen that it doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like a turnaroundable situation in Blacksburg. I think right now
Speaker 1: it's eight or nine wins?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah, six wins, come on, it's definitely
Speaker 2: higher than six wins.
Speaker 1: But are they winning nine? Ever? With justin Flente moving forward?
Speaker 1: I think they could? Okay? Why not? Why couldn't they.
Speaker 2: Is it is it that stiff of competition in the
Speaker 2: ACC that win they can't pull off nine wins.
Speaker 1: It's hard to get better as recruiting gets worse year
Speaker 1: over year. It's hard to have that element of your
Speaker 1: program go downward, but your win totals go up unless
Speaker 1: you're in a terrible conference or you already have an
Speaker 1: amazing quarterback and group of coordinators. And I don't think
Speaker 1: Virginia Tech as a So it's that's a hard inverted
Speaker 1: graph to sell me on.
Speaker 2: I guess I just the Coastal Division has Duke, Georgia Tech,
Speaker 2: Pitt Virginia, Virginia's gotten better at football Miami. And obviously
Speaker 2: we're talking about all gettable teams these past couple of year,
Speaker 2: all gettable, they're all going. Virginia Tech wasn't picking them up.
Speaker 2: They weren't anywhere near the Coastal truck.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I think for sure, nine.
Speaker 2: Wins is that's not even the peak. The peak is
Speaker 2: winning your side of the of the conference right now,
Speaker 2: because you're just not gonna be Clemson.
Speaker 1: You're not You're not gonna be Clemson. It's not gonna happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: techam a the a SEC championship game in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: and that was our I believe extremely early on maybe
Speaker 1: the first year of yeah, first year of Justin Fuente,
Speaker 1: y on ten and four. Right, So what has the
Speaker 1: trend line looked like? No, it's not great a Tech. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not great. And there's some tough games on the
Speaker 1: schedule this year. They got North Carolina's Sam Howe to
Speaker 1: open up the year.
Speaker 2: It's in Blacksburg. It's a tough game. You got a
Speaker 2: game against Notre Dame on the road at Miami, on
Speaker 2: the road at Virginia So it's not the easiest route,
Speaker 2: but they miss Clemson, like they could easily go eight
Speaker 2: or nine wins with this schedule right now, easily this
Speaker 2: coming year.
Speaker 1: Hold on a good Virginia Tech team could who are
Speaker 1: they starting at quarterback? Raxenbourg? I start, I get back
Speaker 1: to you about that one. We'll get back to you.
Speaker 1: Right We're talking about Virginia Tech continuing what they look
Speaker 1: like in like twenty twelve, could go eight nine wins
Speaker 1: deep into this year's this season. I just I don't know.
Speaker 1: You gotta watch Virginia Tech football time I've watched.
Speaker 2: Maybe you shouldn't I've watched. I mean, this is a
Speaker 2: get There are some tough games on here. This is
Speaker 2: a very gettable schedule.
Speaker 1: It's a gettable schedule for like Florida State maybe, or
Speaker 1: Louisville or you know a team that appears to be
Speaker 1: on an upward trend.
Speaker 2: All right, whatever, let's go on two more here, Arizona State, Dan,
Speaker 2: Let's go out west. Rose Bowl is an is the
Speaker 2: absolute top of the ceiling? Win the PAC twelve, ten
Speaker 2: or eleven wins. I cannot imagine a scenario where we
Speaker 2: are a contender for the playoff. That's from Nick strong
Speaker 2: showing by the Knicks here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this this question resonated with our Nick friends Rose Bowl.
Speaker 2: Saying absolute, absolute top is the Rose Bowl.
Speaker 1: I think I'm leaning more Alamo Fiesta. Fiesta Bawl is
Speaker 1: a New Year six game. Fiestaval is a great game.
Speaker 1: It isn't wrong the Fiesta Bowl. So he's seeing the
Speaker 1: PAC twelve.
Speaker 2: Nick is even struggling with this. I understand absolutely, he's
Speaker 2: not like emphatic the Rose Bowl. Yes, he's saying, maybe
Speaker 2: if the opportunity truck comes rolling around the corner, we
Speaker 2: could win the PAC twelve. Otherwise it's like ten wins.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably ten wins in Fiesta A ten win Fiesta,
Speaker 1: ten win Alamo appearance, just because I struggle right now
Speaker 1: looking at if Arizona State's winning the PAC twelve. We
Speaker 1: are talking about them edging out USC, which they almost
Speaker 1: did this year, which was the South champ edging out USC,
Speaker 1: or having a down USC and probably a down Utah.
Speaker 1: We're being honest about teams that are squarely ahead of
Speaker 1: Arizona State in terms of the South pecking order, having
Speaker 1: UCLA State as down as they've been, although that's an
Speaker 1: ascending UCLA program right now, and then in the North
Speaker 1: have an uncharacteristically down Oregon year, which twenty twenty was
Speaker 1: in twenty what was it sixteen, the final year of
Speaker 1: Mark Helfrich was, So that can happen their own health.
Speaker 1: Recruiting has been really climbing in a good way for
Speaker 1: Arizona State, but there is still something about what their
Speaker 1: overall talent level needs to be and where the rest
Speaker 1: of the conference needs to be. That ASU having a
Speaker 1: top twenty unit on both sides, or having a top
Speaker 1: eight unit on one side and a top fifty unit
Speaker 1: on the other side, that I am not ready to
Speaker 1: call plausible. I think there's too much standing in the way.
Speaker 1: They can't recruit their state, which is a growing talent
Speaker 1: of a state, and that concerns me. I just I
Speaker 1: don't know Herm Edwards raising the trophy? Could he raise
Speaker 1: a Holiday Boll Trophy at Alimo bol Trope? To be sure? Sure?
Speaker 1: Even then they are they're all in on recruiting, but
Speaker 1: don't recruit in state. And I don't know if I
Speaker 1: love the coaching staff the current one. I think you're
Speaker 1: can attract pretty good coaches, but there's also that element
Speaker 1: of ASU. You know, it's Dirk Cutter, it's Dennis Erickson,
Speaker 1: it's Todd Graham, It's there's an element that I just
Speaker 1: think to myself, are they are they going to be
Speaker 1: able to find a guy if it's not Herm Edwards.
Speaker 2: Who's the perfect guy for Arizona State, who's a perfect
Speaker 2: coach that would turn that program around outside of like
Speaker 2: Urban Meyer.
Speaker 1: Oh. I think if they get lucky with like a
Speaker 1: West Coast up and comer, like if Andy Avlos just
Speaker 1: as incredible at BOIS, I think that's an interesting name
Speaker 1: because I think he would hire really well at his
Speaker 1: own Power five program. I think he's hired pretty well
Speaker 1: at Boise. I don't know enough about Brent Brennan at
Speaker 1: San Jose State, though I know the job he did
Speaker 1: was great. I think guys like that are interesting. But
Speaker 1: they're also always going to be that program because I
Speaker 1: don't think they can I don't think they can have
Speaker 1: killers at every position. That they're always going to be
Speaker 1: that program that needs an zero to nine Arizona A
Speaker 1: two and seven UCLA the opportunity, but they need well,
Speaker 1: they need the But I mean ten and two ceiling
Speaker 1: is incredible. I don't understand why why we have to
Speaker 1: like hold ASU to a uh an over ten win
Speaker 1: standard for a ceiling when ten win as a ceiling
Speaker 1: is pretty great.
Speaker 2: We're again, this is a relative measure. Yeah, and there
Speaker 2: are some folks here who are clearly winting to try
Speaker 2: and see, squinting to try and see this ceiling. And
Speaker 2: I think in this case we've got that exact situation.
Speaker 2: Let me close it out with this one. Okay, A
Speaker 2: M no, whatever you want. Well, I was going to
Speaker 2: go to West Virginia, but we can go AM as
Speaker 2: well if you want. Yeah, I got nowhere to be
Speaker 2: West Virginia. Best case scenario ceiling is probably eleven and
Speaker 2: one and one of the traditional New Year six Bowls
Speaker 2: and eleven and one, West Virginia surely gets passed over
Speaker 2: for a national championship birth playoff berth hard to realistically
Speaker 2: believe West Virginia ever puts an undefeated season together with
Speaker 2: their travel and a nine game conference schedules. There's a
Speaker 2: lot to unpack there. From Mountain Raven great name, eleven
Speaker 2: and one is robust. That is a robust schedule and
Speaker 2: a robust so ceiling for West Virginia.
Speaker 1: One of their all time great coaches, Dana Holgerson, won
Speaker 1: double digit games once, went ten to two and twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: Believe West Virginia's best season record wise of all time
Speaker 1: involved one of the all time great backfields, Steve Slaton
Speaker 1: pow White two thousand and five. Rich Rod Right, yes,
Speaker 1: rich Rod, And that was a different conference. That was
Speaker 1: the Big East. I have West Virginia right now at
Speaker 1: an absolute ceiling of ten wins in the Big Twelve.
Speaker 1: Lose to one of the more quote unquote traditional powers
Speaker 1: and then lose like you get just bad scheduling luck
Speaker 1: and you get a road back to back and or
Speaker 1: bringing you back and forth, whatever it is. It's hard
Speaker 1: for me to envision West Virginia right now under Neild
Speaker 1: or under whoever getting to that point in not the
Speaker 1: best recruiting area, though they do have a pretty incredible
Speaker 1: inroads in Florida traditionally getting to the point where they
Speaker 1: can overcome I think the built in limitations to win
Speaker 1: eleven games and be in that playoff conversation. So I
Speaker 1: think they are. I think their ceiling is above Arizona State,
Speaker 1: but not quite eleven, so I think they're right in
Speaker 1: that nine point eight to ten point two win ceiling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's interesting because I do feel like the
Speaker 2: Big Twelve is gettable.
Speaker 1: The Big Twelve has a very.
Speaker 2: Thick middle crust of teams that fall into like that
Speaker 2: seven and five, eight and four territory. It's not a
Speaker 2: bad conference by any stretch, but Oklahoma is clearly the
Speaker 2: upper crust of the Big Twelve. The rest of it,
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of upward mobility, and West
Speaker 2: Virginia probably falls in that category. But what the respondent
Speaker 2: Mountain Raven what a name, what he or she accurately
Speaker 2: points out is that they are geographically removed from the
Speaker 2: epicenter of the conference, and that's part of the reason
Speaker 2: why it's always felt like a really odd fit for
Speaker 2: West Virginia in the Big Twelve. There's so much farther
Speaker 2: east than the rest of the conference, and that poses
Speaker 2: an interesting challenge on the recruiting trail.
Speaker 1: For sure.
Speaker 2: I think we both like their coach. We both like
Speaker 2: the coach, we like that move looking forward at the
Speaker 2: next like five to six years of non conference games.
Speaker 2: They've of course got the game against Pittlake every year,
Speaker 2: and for at least the next two years they're slated
Speaker 2: against Virginia Tech. But along the way they pick up
Speaker 2: Penn State. If you go all the way out to
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, they pick up Alabama. So if we're
Speaker 2: talking about one loss, that's a really good West Virginia
Speaker 2: team that's knocking off all of those teams on his schedule,
Speaker 2: probably losing only to an Oklahoma or a Penn State
Speaker 2: or an Alabama. Ten wins I think is tops. I'm
Speaker 2: with you. Ten wins is absolutely tops. And that's contingent
Speaker 2: on them putting an offense together. That's contingent on them
Speaker 2: playing the Neil Brown defense that we've seen in years past.
Speaker 2: At other stops for him, like it all has to
Speaker 2: go right, I think to get the ten wins.
Speaker 1: If you're the Mountaineers, I would love. I would love
Speaker 1: as he also cannot mess up a coordinator higher. No, no,
Speaker 1: of course not, because we've seen the desktops to which
Speaker 1: both sides of the ball can fall with a pretty
Speaker 1: bad hire, the margin for err is pretty slim. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, did you want to do A and M
Speaker 1: real quick? Yeah?
Speaker 2: A and M thoughts, So you know they're paying Jimbo
Speaker 2: Fisher at King's ransom, came over from Florida State Man.
Speaker 1: We don't have to talk about his contract there on
Speaker 1: the edge of the playoff, he's fine.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm saying they hired him. They hired him to
Speaker 2: raise this ceiling specifically. So in order to get to
Speaker 2: the playoff, you probably gotta win. You probably gotta be
Speaker 2: damn impressive in the SEC in the SEC west yep.
Speaker 2: And if the opportunity truck is rolling around the corner
Speaker 2: for a team like I don't know, a Virginia Tech,
Speaker 2: it's sure as hell ain't rolling around for a team
Speaker 2: like a Texas A and M, at least not in
Speaker 2: the same way, because's got to deal with Alabama. God,
Speaker 2: deal with LSU. Gotta deal with just a ton of
Speaker 2: AMMO in the SEC West. So is the ceiling the
Speaker 2: SEC West or the ceiling the S Is a ceiling Alabama?
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're good enough to win the SEC West,
Speaker 1: you're going to to win the SEC. Yeah?
Speaker 2: Is the ceiling Alabama? Beating Alabama?
Speaker 1: So early Kevin some.
Speaker 2: Twenty twelve or whatever, it was twenty thirteen, right.
Speaker 1: And that was a non national champion. They finished five
Speaker 1: in the country. They win the Cotton Bowl, impressive win
Speaker 1: over Oklahoma in Johnny Manzel's first season Heisman season. To
Speaker 1: be clear, I ba ba bah. I think that's their
Speaker 1: absolute ceiling. I don't think they are a I don't
Speaker 1: think we will in any sort of short future. Look
Speaker 1: at Texas A and M as a perennial playoff threat,
Speaker 1: which if we're saying eleven wins ceiling, that's what we're
Speaker 1: calling them because since twenty twelve, and I'll throw out
Speaker 1: twenty twenty because that wasn't they didn't get the full
Speaker 1: twelve games to prove it. In terms of the win column,
Speaker 1: they haven't won double digit games again. And in the
Speaker 1: ten or so years before for twenty twelve or even
Speaker 1: like fifteen years, they didn't get to ten wins. Now
Speaker 1: that's at this point agient history and whatever. They're operating
Speaker 1: at a really impressive on an impressive plane, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say ten wins. No, I'm gonna say ten wins while
Speaker 1: looking like the quality of a playoff team a good
Speaker 1: amount of the time. But in the sec SEC West,
Speaker 1: I don't think I trust it. I don't think I
Speaker 1: trust them to go Like, how are you supposed to
Speaker 1: have any sort of impressive ceiling in the same division
Speaker 1: as Nick Saban?
Speaker 2: Well, so, speaking of opportunity truck and speaking LSU.
Speaker 1: Did it for a year for a year?
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of circumstances. Nick Saban turns seventy on Halloween
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty. Okay, how much longer is Nick Saban coaching?
Speaker 2: Because I mean, I hate to talk about it from
Speaker 2: this perspective, but he can't coach forever.
Speaker 1: Disagree?
Speaker 2: At some point he's got a step aside. Jimbo Fisher
Speaker 2: is a younger guy. You maybe he can outlast him.
Speaker 1: Dan, I mean, this is the old what Stephen Godfrey,
Speaker 1: Bill Connolly game? How much longer? Exactly? And National championships.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I seventy years old. How many more
Speaker 1: years can somebody survive, not even survive, thrive as the
Speaker 1: most successful coach of all time, five six somewhere in
Speaker 1: there to me? Sure, No. But the thing is, I
Speaker 1: think it's entirely possible that the end of the Nick
Speaker 1: Saban era is essentially waking up in you know, the
Speaker 1: middle of fall camp and saying I'm done. I'm not
Speaker 1: feeling that that eternal burn that I normally do. I
Speaker 1: just did. I just imply Nick Saban with Satan, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure you might have. Yeah, I'm not feeling that
Speaker 1: eternal competitive booster, and it's I'm wasting everybody's time. If
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling it, he's just gonna leave. So that
Speaker 1: could be a year from now, two years from now.
Speaker 1: But I think the flames are the flames are high, ty,
Speaker 1: So yeah, four or five years all right?
Speaker 2: Well, look, this is I thought we had a good
Speaker 2: conversation here. I enjoyed talking to you about this.
Speaker 1: Yes, please write it and listening and talking. Yeah, soliverble
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Let us know your thoughts. We
Speaker 1: didn't cover all the teams that were sent to us,
Speaker 1: but I think some of the ones that intrigued us
Speaker 1: the most. Soliverble at gmail dot com. Obviously you know
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Speaker 1: We're doing some cool stuff here in the off season, Daniel,
Speaker 1: I think that's all I got do. We have Patriot
Speaker 1: League football starting soon. I think we do.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to say I don't want to do
Speaker 2: it starting.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing the twenty seventh of March. Yeah, is that right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh no, the Patrio League schedule is set to begin.
Speaker 1: That was one. That was one game. It looks like
Speaker 1: it's March thirteenth. There's two divisions. The north is Colgate,
Speaker 1: Fordham holy Cross. The South is Bucknell Lafay at Lehigh TI.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna come up with some uncomfortable adjectives
Speaker 1: for you. I think starting today's the A. So the
Speaker 1: thirteenth means nine to ten Saturday. So on our next show,
Speaker 1: are we doing Patriot League? I think we might have to? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm very excited for this. I think
Speaker 1: we might have to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don seeing Saturday, March the thirteenth. I'm looking at
Speaker 2: Lehigh's schedule. Patriot League lightning around coming back on Thursday.
Speaker 1: Dan, Oh my.
Speaker 2: God, Crosssaders coming to Goodman Stadium this Saturday.
Speaker 1: I should go. I really should go. It's the cross
Speaker 1: Saders coming to town.
Speaker 2: They are yeah, Sonny.
Speaker 1: I Plus, I know spring football has already begun other places,
Speaker 1: but we've been This has been our our tan trik holdout. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it really has. It really has to talk about Patrio
Speaker 1: League football this coming Thursday morning. Great done, full Patriot
Speaker 1: League breakdown coming your way on Thursday morning. Yes, Stursday
Speaker 1: tune okay, Danne, fun show.
Speaker 2: Thank you to one and all for your support for
Speaker 2: playing along with our madness. Soberbal at gmail dot com
Speaker 2: as always.
Speaker 1: Is the email.
Speaker 2: Saltaverbal dot com is the website. Follow along, play along.
Speaker 2: Hope you're all happy and healthy, space safe until next time,
Speaker 2: Stay solid, peace