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Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal hull. That for me. I'm

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Speaker 1: a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say, well,

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Speaker 1: I want to be happy. You want to be happy

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Speaker 1: for a day? Ato steak is that woo woof?

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Speaker 2: And Dan and Tie welcome back to the Cliburbo boys

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Speaker 2: and girls. My name is Ty hilden Brand joining me

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Speaker 2: over there in tropical Chicago, Illinois.

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Speaker 1: Dan Rubinstein, sir, how are you pretty good? It's it

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Speaker 1: is tropical, it's sixty plus degrees. I went for a run.

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Speaker 1: I promptly got back eight Indian lentils and rice because

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Speaker 1: I don't like filling up too much lunchtime, because I'm

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Speaker 1: the type of person who can get slogged down by

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Speaker 1: a big lunch. At around three fifteen pm, and then

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Speaker 1: I saw that we had left over donuts, right because

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Speaker 1: we had friends who brought over donuts for like a

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Speaker 1: little park meet up yesterday and left us with the

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Speaker 1: left Because Chicago. Everybody likes to think of Chicago as

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Speaker 1: like deep dish Italian beef whatever, like the touristy foods,

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Speaker 1: Chicago may be America's best donut town. If you watched

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Speaker 1: and remember any part of Wayne's world when they go

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Speaker 1: to the donut shop and sure it is rife. If

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Speaker 1: that's the word I'm looking for with donut excellence, La

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Speaker 1: and Chicago are the best I've found. Well, this is

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Speaker 1: why people tell me I'm way down. Nonetheless, as we're

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Speaker 1: supposed to talk about ceilings at the moment, I would

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Speaker 1: come crashing through some ceiling. So here we are, Here

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Speaker 1: we are.

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Speaker 2: It is getting warmer, at least here in the mid Atlantic.

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Speaker 2: Over there in the Midwest. It got me to thinking, Dan,

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Speaker 2: what is the threshold in your respective geography for going

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Speaker 2: to the gas station and spotting your first.

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Speaker 1: Pair of gene shorts for the year.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about that a little bit later on. My

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Speaker 2: guess is, do you are you a jort community member? Like,

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Speaker 2: are you are there jorts in your area? Are there

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Speaker 2: shorts in my area? I'm in eastern Pennsylvania. This is

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Speaker 2: exclusively George's territory. Khaki, you're in a hot zone. I'm

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Speaker 2: in a hot zone. Yeah, a hotspot, a big deep

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Speaker 2: red circle on the New York Times tracking index.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so like when when the government issues it's

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Speaker 1: like stay away from these war torn hot zones. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you are in the midst of a gene torn if

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Speaker 1: you will. That's correct, that's actually gone. Okay. I don't

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Speaker 1: think I am, but I haven't spent a full summer

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Speaker 1: here yet, so I'm happy to be proven wrong.

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Speaker 2: We will talk about this a little bit later. We

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Speaker 2: do have pressing business to get to in the form

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Speaker 2: of ceilings with y'all address moment artily. Don't forget to

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Speaker 2: subscribe to the show if you haven't already, going out

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Speaker 2: solibble dot com up a right hand corner gives you

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Speaker 2: all the links that you need.

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Speaker 1: To subscribe to the show.

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Speaker 2: We're also all over the place on social media, be

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Speaker 2: it Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube, you name it.

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Speaker 1: We're all over the place.

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Speaker 2: And last, but certainly not least, verballers dot com Dan

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Speaker 2: verballers dot com. Yes, you can head on out to

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Speaker 2: verballers dot com. Join in on the fun, be part

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Speaker 2: of the Patreon, get access to our discord server, which

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Speaker 2: is poppin' even in the off season.

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Speaker 1: It's poppin'. Yeah. I like it.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna be working on our next off topic show.

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Speaker 2: I have some ideas that I want to want to

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Speaker 2: run by right here, not to hit the stop button,

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Speaker 2: but verballers dot Com is where you can find all

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Speaker 2: the info on how to be part of the budding

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Speaker 2: Patreon community.

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Speaker 1: Daniel, here you go.

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Speaker 2: Okay, should we start with news? Do you want to

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Speaker 2: talk about a large bit of news? Sure?

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you have to sound out wow.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that was very loud in my years.

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Speaker 1: Is that loud for you? Yeah? Yeah, like a ton

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Speaker 1: of bricks. So so, speaking of ceilings, we should mention

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Speaker 1: a program with arguably the lowest or second lowest floor,

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Speaker 1: depending on how you feel about the depths of where

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Speaker 1: Utgers has fallen but is climbing out of. Right now.

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Speaker 1: The Kansas Jayhawks employee Less Miles at the time of

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Speaker 1: this recording. Correct, correct, Yeah, hard to see lasting a

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Speaker 1: ton longer. I don't laugh because I'm making fun of

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Speaker 1: the severity of everything that's swirling in the Less Miles

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Speaker 1: universe right now. But a report was made public about

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Speaker 1: his time at LSU that in twenty twelve he acted

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Speaker 1: extremely inappropriately and made advances towards women who were students

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Speaker 1: at LSU and involved in the football program, and came

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Speaker 1: onto them and had a condo and just was driving

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Speaker 1: them and just it's really ugly. And even more details

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Speaker 1: about what was covered up or thrown under the rug

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Speaker 1: in terms of how players and of course less Miles

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Speaker 1: treated women during that time. You know, some of it

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Speaker 1: had already come out and was known. Some of it

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Speaker 1: was not, you know, an accusation around Darius Geis and

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Speaker 1: sexually harassing and all older security guard like really ugly,

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Speaker 1: ugly stuff. Anyway, and that was I believe post miles

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Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, But in any case, it was

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Speaker 1: within the LSU program. But in terms of less Miles

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Speaker 1: specific alleged actions, it looks like Joe Leiva, the former

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Speaker 1: AD of LSU, recommended that they terminate less Miles with

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Speaker 1: cause in twenty thirteen after the investigation into what he

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Speaker 1: was doing in twenty twelve, and that was shot down

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Speaker 1: by people up above his pay grade. In any case,

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Speaker 1: the reflection on less Miles now the reflection on Kansas

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Speaker 1: and Jeff Long, the current AD one of the people

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Speaker 1: that I'm sure was in charge of the vetting of

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Speaker 1: less Miles, and it's bad, It's real bad. It's a

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Speaker 1: terrible reflection on some pretty horrible, awful accusations.

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Speaker 2: Well, and now he's been placed on administrative leaving. As

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Speaker 2: we mentioned that that happened on Friday, And to your point,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to see how that's going to be a

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Speaker 2: tenable situation moving forward.

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Speaker 1: Also interesting in retrospect, it's always easier in retrospect. Hi

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Speaker 1: in retrospect that less Miles, after the successes he had

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Speaker 1: and obviously the shortcomings that he did as a pure

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Speaker 1: on field football coach, wins and losses, coach, interviewed for jobs,

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Speaker 1: jobs that were looking look like they were far not

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Speaker 1: beneath but clearly smaller jobs than what he had at LSU,

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Speaker 1: and just was bouncing around like not able to secure

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Speaker 1: a job, not able to get an interview at big places,

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Speaker 1: not able to nail interviews at smaller places, and perhaps

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Speaker 1: in search firm some schools better at vetting than others,

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Speaker 1: or makes sense, better able to make peace with moving

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Speaker 1: on from less Miles than what Kansas was able to do.

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Speaker 1: So it is my assumption that less Miles won't be

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Speaker 1: coaching at Kansas this fall, and Kansas once again back

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Speaker 1: to the drawing board if that's the case. After a

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Speaker 1: string of pretty awful hires in terms of turning Kansas

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Speaker 1: football round, Charlie Weiss, Turner, Gale David Beatty and now

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Speaker 1: Les Miles who I think probably stood the least chance. Yeah, well, look,

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Speaker 1: we to succeed.

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Speaker 2: We talked about this time and again here. Yeah, in

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Speaker 2: the beginning, the move to go and get less miles

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Speaker 2: before any of this stuff was common knowledge, it was

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Speaker 2: met with mixed reviews. There was one camp where it

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Speaker 2: was like, hey, it's Kansas, what could happen?

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Speaker 1: It's less miles.

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Speaker 2: He's right, they'll never be able to do better than

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Speaker 2: a national championship winning coach, right.

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Speaker 1: So there was that school of thought.

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Speaker 2: There was the other school of thought, which honestly I

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Speaker 2: think was a little bit more vociferous, and that was

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Speaker 2: what are we doing here? Why are we going back

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Speaker 2: to the Well, we're going to hire an older coach.

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Speaker 2: He's not going to have a long shelf life. It's

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Speaker 2: more of a pr stunt, right. So, look, whatever camp

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Speaker 2: you were in, it doesn't seem like it's in a

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Speaker 2: good spot now. It's probably all headed to the same place,

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Speaker 2: and Kansas may well find itself in a position soon

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Speaker 2: enough where they have to take another crack at hiring

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Speaker 2: somebody else. We talked about that situation as well. It's

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Speaker 2: the wrong time of year, the wrong time of year,

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Speaker 2: but what does it take if you are Kansas, to

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Speaker 2: try and dig yourself out of this hole, to move forward,

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Speaker 2: to put yourself back on the straight and narrow.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be a tough place to do that.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's impossible, but certainly on the heels

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Speaker 2: of this it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't I should say, leave them in a great spot.

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Speaker 1: It's also just an especially awful institutional look that you

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Speaker 1: have this outside firm come in and investigate the allegations

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Speaker 1: and come to the conclusion that a ton of inappropriate

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Speaker 1: activity took place, and the ad say, you know, we

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Speaker 1: got to get rid of this kai. And now maybe

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Speaker 1: it appears that the judgment was they were not going

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Speaker 1: to be able to in court get away with say

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Speaker 1: less Miles was terminated for reasonable cause, and that they

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Speaker 1: would still have to owe him whatever it was, the

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Speaker 1: fifteen million dollars. But such an astonishingly awful institutional look

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Speaker 1: for the boss or one of the bosses to say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we got to get rid of this guy. That's my

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Speaker 1: appraisal of the situation, and people above him say, now,

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Speaker 1: we're good because he's a powerful dude who wins football games.

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Speaker 1: It's look, this is a cultural element of this sport.

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Speaker 1: We love that we have to make peace with in

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Speaker 1: our own way, but man, when specifics come out, it's

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Speaker 1: a terrible, terrible thing to read. And I just hope

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Speaker 1: the women who were involved with this were able to

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Speaker 1: sort of find peace with being treated horribly because I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine the situation they were put in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and to the point of Booster's Dan, We're not

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Speaker 2: going to cover on this show, but I believe a

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Speaker 2: report is due out at the University of Texas and

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Speaker 2: it seems as if there is a heavy Booster influence

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Speaker 2: on that one as well. Regarding we saw the Texas Monthly. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: some other stuff, So more to come on that front.

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Speaker 2: We won't get out over our skis there. We'll talk

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Speaker 2: a little bit more about that on Thursday.

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Speaker 1: But I believe that was an internal investigation turn away, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: both into the Eyes of Texas. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: whatever stock you put into an institution investigating itself, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was the foyer stuff of all the emails that

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Speaker 1: came in during the Eyes of Texas controversy among players

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Speaker 1: and students, finding that the origins of the song were

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Speaker 1: not befitting of the University of Texas. So yeah, going

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Speaker 1: on more to come on that on Thursday.

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Speaker 2: Anything else of note, Dan, anything else in the COLLEGEO

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Speaker 2: ball news radar?

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Speaker 1: No, I mean We're going to still see more and

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Speaker 1: more transfers. I'm interested to see what kind of spring

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Speaker 1: football we get with you know, some protocols still in place,

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Speaker 1: but people getting vaccinated. We certainly have older coaches, which

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Speaker 1: is good news for them if they're able to stay healthy.

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Speaker 1: And interesting to see what happens with the transfer portal,

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Speaker 1: you know, shifting back to the less important thing, but

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Speaker 1: looking what the transfer portal has to offer after spring football,

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Speaker 1: Guys getting beat out, guys fully making a decision that

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Speaker 1: they want to be somewhere else. It'll be interesting to

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Speaker 1: see as the pieces continue to shuffle across the sport.

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Speaker 2: Tom Allen got a one million dollar annual raise in

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Speaker 2: a new deal for him. Good for him, l e

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Speaker 2: O seems like, as we posted on Twitter, a really

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Speaker 2: good value by for Indiana. Also, Randy Etzel Randy edzelll

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Speaker 2: get a two year extension. How about that at you

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Speaker 2: conn our boy? Yeah, I mean we didn't lose this season.

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Speaker 2: The feel good story of stores. All right, shall we

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Speaker 2: get to our game Djore, let's do that. We put

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Speaker 2: out a call on the old Twitter sphere a little

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Speaker 2: bit ago around one o'clock Eastern time, and say, look,

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Speaker 2: your team in this scenario, it's not Alabama, it's not Clemson,

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Speaker 2: it's not Ohio State. What is your team's win slash

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Speaker 2: bowl ceiling? It can be either your current team's potential,

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Speaker 2: your team's potential potential, it could be another team altogether,

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Speaker 2: any timebox you want to put on it, right, But

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Speaker 2: tell us more about your team.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want to tell me your team doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a ceiling of a certain number of games or

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Speaker 1: a certain bowl game, but you just want to say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: my team has a ceiling of competent competitive vibes, I'm

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Speaker 1: good with that. That's a ceiling for sure.

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Speaker 2: So we got a very specific one here from a

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Speaker 2: gentleman who goes by j Train of Jolly on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, can can we define things as

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Speaker 1: well before we talk about it? Sure? So to you

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Speaker 1: what determines the ceiling, like when you are going to

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Speaker 1: weigh in on any of these teams, Penn State, Nebraska, Utah,

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Speaker 1: Texas Tech, whatever, What What do you think about? What?

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Speaker 1: What helps? What propels a team to its ceiling, like,

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Speaker 1: there are a number of factors, right, sure, So what

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Speaker 1: are you considering in terms of like how a team

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Speaker 1: actually gets there where? What propels a rocket? Boosters? What

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Speaker 1: are the that's a good wal tied to college football?

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Speaker 1: I think boosters. What are the boosters here?

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Speaker 2: I think that's the more interesting way to frame the question,

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Speaker 2: because anybody could say Notre Dame ceiling is probably making

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Speaker 2: the playoffs and as somebody pointed out, losing by two

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Speaker 2: to three scores. Okay, anybody can.

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Speaker 1: Mean it's one of the more proven situations. Yeah football, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's it's not exactly guess and check, but anybody can

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Speaker 2: put a number on it and say, well, case State,

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Speaker 2: case States may be a low key Big twelve contender.

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Speaker 1: I would agree, Yeah, I mean I went to the

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Speaker 1: Fiesta bal within the decade, I believe. I think I

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Speaker 1: think the real question that is how to get there? What?

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Speaker 2: What is what is the propellant to get that team

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Speaker 2: to that place?

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Speaker 1: It's a combination of factors.

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Speaker 2: First off, I think it's got to be something on

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Speaker 2: the recruiting slash talent development front.

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Speaker 1: If you're not recruiting.

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Speaker 2: Well well enough, if you're not like Matt Campbell and

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Speaker 2: developing the talent that you get. It's going to be

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Speaker 2: hard to try and build up anything right. Secondly, I

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Speaker 2: think you need to have some degree of coaching stability.

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Speaker 2: You know, poor Florida State, Florida Florida State has had

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Speaker 2: so much coaching turnover in the last five years.

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Speaker 1: It's tough to establish momentum. It is hard. How do

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Speaker 1: you do it? Or if you're swapping out.

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Speaker 2: Coordinators like we've seen, like, it's hard, it's hard to

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Speaker 2: establish that momentum. So combination obviously of recruiting, developing talent,

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Speaker 2: some amount of coaching stability. Doesn't mean like everybody has

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Speaker 2: to stay, but you need to at least have an

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Speaker 2: Alabama situation. You've got a good, strong leader at the

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Speaker 2: top to set the tone and establish a template for

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Speaker 2: those underlings. And then I would also say that you know,

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Speaker 2: there needs to be a favorable setup with your schedule,

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Speaker 2: with your conference. There needs to be an opening. It

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Speaker 2: needs to be an opening. I'm not going to come

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Speaker 2: out here and say that I feel great about Mississippi

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Speaker 2: State's chances to win the SEC West. I'm not right,

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Speaker 2: it's not realistic. What's the opening there?

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Speaker 1: What needle.

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Speaker 2: Are we threading to get to the top of the

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Speaker 2: SEC West? It does not feel realistic to me. Now,

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Speaker 2: could a team like I don't know, Virginia pave a

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Speaker 2: way to win it's side of the ACC maybe good

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Speaker 2: talk about that seems more practical to me.

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Speaker 1: But we got to be realistic. Well, I was just

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Speaker 1: going to say, it's it's sort of nature versus nature.

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Speaker 1: It's the nature of your own wiring. So whatever you're

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Speaker 1: able to do to control things internally and then the

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Speaker 1: nature of your division or conference. Now, the easiest way

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Speaker 1: to hit your ceiling is to have amazing coaches and

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Speaker 1: amazing players. You're going to beat everybody you play if

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Speaker 1: you have essentially, I mean, you will likely beat everybody

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Speaker 1: you play if you have a talent and coaching advantage.

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Speaker 1: Now short of that, which is why we said, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to hear from Alabama, Ohio State, and Clemson

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Speaker 1: fans because that's the scenario with them, and I guess,

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Speaker 1: to a smaller extent Oklahoma, but they seem to be

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Speaker 1: losing it at least a more it's a more common occurrence.

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Speaker 1: And that's still an Oklahoma team than program that's just

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Speaker 1: elite and excellent. I think the point you made about

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Speaker 1: situation is fascinating to me. So if you take that

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Speaker 1: twenty twelve, I believe Kansas State team, that's Colin Klein,

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Speaker 1: and that's a big twelve that has this incredible axis

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Speaker 1: of mediocrity Texas five and four, Oklahoma State five and four,

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Speaker 1: Baler four and five, TCU four and five, Texas Tech

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Speaker 1: four and five, West Virginia four and five. So if

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Speaker 1: you are able to prove that you are good, maybe

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Speaker 1: not great, but good to really good in a conference

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Speaker 1: with a lot of sh medium, then you rise. Now

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Speaker 1: you can also get to a point where you are

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Speaker 1: hitting on all cylinders. So let's say you have one

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Speaker 1: of the best, and I think this is the situation

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Speaker 1: for teams basically everybody in college football. You probably need

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Speaker 1: to have one of your five to seven best quarterbacks ever, right, No,

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Speaker 1: I think that's an element. I think you have to

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Speaker 1: have health luck. I think you need to have health situation. Well, yeah, health,

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Speaker 1: lack of attrition, which you mentioned, especially with coaches, but

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Speaker 1: I even think just you know, you don't have a

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Speaker 1: position group decimated by injuries, and so we have teams

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Speaker 1: that have made the playoff have gone to conference championship games,

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Speaker 1: gone to New Year six games that don't necessarily find

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Speaker 1: themselves in that position a lot. So you look at

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Speaker 1: you know, Michigan State and Iowa, and you know Washington

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Speaker 1: made up playoff game, and you know, Stanford had a

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Speaker 1: really nice run. But and this is not an asterisk

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Speaker 1: territory that I'm going to, but there are a finite

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Speaker 1: number of wins to be had in a conference. And

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Speaker 1: if there are a bunch of ohn eight two and

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Speaker 1: sevens one in six, whatever it is, in the bottom

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Speaker 1: of that conference, you just you can pick up wins.

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Speaker 1: You can pick up cheap wins in those conferences, and

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Speaker 1: it makes it so much easier to get to I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't say this in a bad way, but like

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Speaker 1: Syracuse a couple of years ago, they picked up cheap wins.

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Speaker 1: And that's okay because that's what good teams and good

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Speaker 1: programs do all the time. You look at Clemson. Clemson

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Speaker 1: has hit their ceiling and they're still at their ceiling.

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Speaker 1: But it coincides with Florida State throwing a bunch of

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Speaker 1: wins to the acc right right right, And that's okay

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Speaker 1: because that's what excellent teams do. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: Colorado pops up and wins the Pac twelve West the

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Speaker 1: year under Mike McIntyre. I believe that was a four

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Speaker 1: and eight Oregon season. So you have these situations that

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Speaker 1: teams that are not winning nine, ten to eleven games,

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Speaker 1: eight games, whatever, that all that often you need to rise.

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Speaker 1: And we make this analogy sometimes where it's really good

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Speaker 1: to draft behind the opportunity truck. So when things start

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Speaker 1: falling off, you're right there. You're at like what is

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Speaker 1: the you want to road podcast or what's the name

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Speaker 1: of the unit that you want to pick up to

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Speaker 1: upgrade your audio.

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Speaker 2: We're looking at the road cast pro at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Road cast or pro. Yeah, So if you're you just

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Speaker 1: want to be drafted off that road cast or pro

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Speaker 1: truck and if a few fall off and nobody says

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Speaker 1: anything there, you were to pick them up, Tie.

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Speaker 2: I would be fine with that. I would so fine

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Speaker 2: with that.

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Speaker 1: In this scenario, like a team who hasn't necessarily been

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Speaker 1: winning a bunch of games and is suddenly looking excellent

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Speaker 1: Iowa State. Iowa State is in this position because they

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Speaker 1: have a good coach, they look like they have a

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Speaker 1: good culture, they look like they've recruited really smartly and

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Speaker 1: developed really well. But also there are some extremely down

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Speaker 1: teams in the Big twelve right now, and so Iowa

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Speaker 1: State is good enough to pick up those wins drafting

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Speaker 1: behind the opportunity truck. How about so.

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Speaker 2: How about Indiana? In twenty twenty, Indiana had their quarterback

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Speaker 2: go down too. Yep, their quarterback went down and they

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Speaker 2: still turned in an incredible season.

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Speaker 1: Weird year, blah blah blah. We all know that.

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Speaker 2: But if you want to talk about how you build it,

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Speaker 2: Tom Allen's been doing the slow burn. It has been

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Speaker 2: the slow burn. I'm not going to say recruiting has

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Speaker 2: been off the charts, but he's done a really good

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Speaker 2: job developing the talent there. He's done a really good job,

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Speaker 2: I think, building that culture from within. And it just

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Speaker 2: so happens that in twenty twenty we had a situation

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Speaker 2: where Penn State was down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Michigan, Michigan was down. Penn State and Michigan combined

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Speaker 1: to go six and nine. Nice, So it's in Michigan

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Speaker 1: State's two and five, like the like. These are the

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Speaker 1: things that the opportunity truck presents, And maybe it wasn't

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Speaker 1: Maryland's ere to take advantage, or Wisconsin's eer or Minnesota's

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Speaker 1: here to take advantage. But when everything tends to come together,

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Speaker 1: quarterback depth, upper classmen, coaches and players on the same page,

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Speaker 1: that's when you get the nine Windiana pursuit. And we

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Speaker 1: see it every year.

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Speaker 2: Every year there's a team that benefits, and it could

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Speaker 2: be from schedule, it could be from a number of

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Speaker 2: different factors, maybe getting a top recruit, a diamond in

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Speaker 2: the rough. We see this pretty constantly throughout college football.

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Speaker 2: Each year there's a different team that kind of steps

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Speaker 2: up and bubbles up in a way that a lot

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Speaker 2: of folks didn't see coming. And that's okay, that's okay.

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Speaker 2: We're not necessarily talking about continued success with this question.

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Speaker 2: We're just talking about what's the ceiling. If there's that

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Speaker 2: one year spike, what's the ceiling.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that Also, by the way, the enduring success and

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Speaker 1: reputation and legacy of Nick say been that up SEC

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Speaker 1: down SEC doesn't matter, coaches leave, coaches, state doesn't matter,

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Speaker 1: every year doesn't matter. Greatest coach of all time, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they've been the most. I'm not gonna say there isn't

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Speaker 1: some context, but the most context free winning program. Because

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Speaker 1: you look at the other programs who sustained success for

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Speaker 1: four or five, seven, nine years or whatever, you can

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Speaker 1: say like, oh, well, this other superpower was extremely down

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Speaker 1: even like my team, the Oregon Ducks, USC was sloping

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Speaker 1: downward because of the sanctions as Oregon was ascending. And

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Speaker 1: you look at the PAC twelve and USC was incredible,

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Speaker 1: not all that great. So, but there's something with Alabama,

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Speaker 1: which is why we're not talking about them, because they've

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Speaker 1: already proven the case out that their ceiling is above

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Speaker 1: everybody else's historically. That's you need factors plural.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, well let's let's dive in then. So

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Speaker 2: we got some really interesting answers on Twitter. Jaytrein Okay says,

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Speaker 2: for Florida's ceiling, we could go twelve to one, make

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Speaker 2: the playoffs to compete for a national championship. Realistically, though,

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Speaker 2: until Todd Grantham either gets fired or somehow the defense improves,

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Speaker 2: we will likely be SEC East champions and losing the

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Speaker 2: championship game, ending up with a New Year six Bowl game.

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Speaker 1: Is it Todd Grantham?

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Speaker 2: Dan?

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Speaker 1: Is it Todd Grantham holding Florida Beck? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: We've had good Todd Grantham defenses, but have we had

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Speaker 1: championship caliber Todd Grantham defenses. Unclear to me. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that is. I think part of it is recruiting

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Speaker 1: on defense in terms of sheer depth of NFL level

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Speaker 1: talent for Florida on defense has fallen off some if

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Speaker 1: you look the last couple of years, in the last

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Speaker 1: couple of classes and the development thereof. But I think

433
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: he kind of nailed it. I think there's there's something

434
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: lacking with Florida. You have to imagine with I'm sure

435
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: Kyle Trask will be drafted at some point and Dan

436
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: Mullen's quarterback reputation between you know, the little bit of

437
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: Cam Newton, Tim Tebow of course Dak probably not Nick

438
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: Fitzgerald in that conversation, but Kyle Trask turning a backup

439
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: into what Kyle Trask became. They're going to be able

440
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 1: to recruit quarterbacks, they're going to be able to attract

441
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: skill talent, and they'll be able to attract NFL talent.

442
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: But that defense right now seems to be a not

443
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: clearly solvable issue under Todd Grantham.

444
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 2: And my how quickly things have turned because it wasn't

445
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: all that long ago we were talking about Florida like

446
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 2: we were talking about Michigan, a team that was led

447
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 2: primarily by defense, offense really none to speak of. It

448
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 2: seems as if a lot of that has flipped Florida.

449
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: No questions about Florida's offense, but getting that defense now

450
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 2: up to speed, I think is.

451
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: Going to be job number one for Dan Mullen. Yeah.

452
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: When Jeff Collins was running things, it was incredible. Yeah,

453
00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: it was great.

454
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I I think I tend to agree. This

455
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 2: is another one though, where situationally, it's very difficult. It's

456
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: very difficult to get past that SEC championship game and

457
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 2: forge ahead into the playoff because in all likelihood you're

458
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 2: dealing with an undefeated Alabama and that's just not an

459
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: easy scenario. I don't care who you are, how good

460
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 2: your players are, going up against luck Saban in this

461
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: current mold is really difficult.

462
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: All that said, Florida's ceiling potentially, because we've seen it

463
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: in the last now fifteen years. It's a player national

464
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: championship caliber program.

465
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 2: It's a playoffs, it's competing for national championship for sure.

466
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,479
Speaker 1: For sure. Heisman conversation quarterback plus NFL level speed and

467
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: creativity on offense, and health on defense and sound defensive

468
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: scheme and development, they can beat Alabama. They were within

469
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: not that many points this year when the defense was

470
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 1: not all that amazing. So if they're actors together on defense,

471
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: their ceiling is Dan Mullum holding up a trophy to me,

472
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: there are one of the very few clear national championship

473
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: caliber programs because of the level of talent that can

474
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 1: be amassed in Gainesville.

475
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we have a couple teams that I think

476
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 2: fall into that category. And these are true national championship

477
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 2: let's put this way, true playoff contenders who if all

478
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 2: goes right, could potentially get a crack at the title.

479
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: Oklahoma falls into that category. I think are wrung above Florida.

480
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: It's an easier path to get there for the Sooners.

481
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: They've been there.

482
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 2: Oklahoma falls in that category. Georgia certainly falls in that

483
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 2: category as well. Maybe a rung about both of them,

484
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 2: to be honest, given recent success. Notre Dames in that conversation,

485
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: they've made the playoff a couple times now would obviously

486
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: like a different result when they get there, But they're

487
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 2: certainly in that discussion. Where's Oregon at is organ that

488
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: playoff conversation continuously, Well.

489
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: First of all, I want to sort of dive into

490
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: a little bit of Oklahoma just because their ceiling is

491
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: with a good defense, they can win a national championship,

492
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: good like top fifteen in the country, which they are

493
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 1: trending in the right direction right now, and they have

494
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: found themselves in national championship games they want last won

495
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: a national championship what twenty twenty one years ago, So

496
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: the talent, the ability to find a best five or

497
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 1: seven quarterback of all time is there. So they're a

498
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: national championship caliber program. Even though recent results suggest that

499
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: their ceiling is just short of that. That does not

500
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 1: seem like an unfixable thing or a situation where they're

501
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: just not going to be able to attract the talent

502
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: to fill out a deep, nasty defense. So yeah, they

503
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: absolutely do have that. Oregon does seem like they have

504
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: a more pronounced ceiling just because I mean, the path

505
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: is fantastic right now. There is no clear and obvious

506
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 1: threat in the Pac twelve North. And in terms of

507
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: a proven commodity, a killerrette quarterback, you know, all the

508
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: things that you'd like to see. The problem is Oregon

509
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,479
Speaker 1: themselves does not have a proven quarterback, but they have

510
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: been one of the best schools in the country in

511
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: terms of attracting high level quarterbacks and developing high level quarterbacks.

512
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: They've had a recent Heisman winner. They just they attract

513
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 1: good players. The problem to me with Oregon is when

514
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: they get to the playoff, and I know they beat

515
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: Florida State, they're I think the only Pac twelve team

516
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: with a playoff win. Believe that's true. The problem is

517
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: once they're there, there is an element of organ that

518
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: under Mario Cristaball I don't fully trust in terms of

519
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: stubbornness and what and I know they're getting very close

520
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: in terms of total depth of talent. There is something

521
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: that scares me. Now. They were essentially Michael Dyer away

522
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: from winning a national championship, so I would say they are,

523
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: you know, a careless whisper away from being a national

524
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: championship program. But I think they're ceiling right now.

525
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: Is playoff team, yeah, and they do have a favorable

526
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: pathway in But the problem is the problem is this

527
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: trying to get in over in Oklahoma, trying to get

528
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: in over a team out of the Big Ten, the ACC.

529
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: The SEC.

530
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 2: It's it's a difficult spot for the Pac twelve to

531
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 2: be in because I feel like it, like it was

532
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: one thing, and this is probably the wrong way to

533
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,959
Speaker 2: put it, but when Oregon under Chip Kelly was setting

534
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: the world on fire with its Neon uniforms and crazy

535
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: fun to watch offense, that was a team that, again,

536
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 2: rightly or wrongly, you wanted to see in the playoff.

537
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: You wanted to see that team in the TV.

538
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a.

539
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: Different Oregon team. It's still a good Oregon team. It's

540
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: a more physical Oregon team under Marrio Crystoball. And I'm

541
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: not saying I don't want to see them in the playoff.

542
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: But it's a much different conversation now when you've got

543
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: high flying Oklahoma, when you've got unstoppable Alabama and Clemson,

544
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: and then you've got a team like an Ohio State

545
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: or a Penn State or even a Notre Dame. It's

546
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: it's a difficult conversation, a much more difficult conversation to

547
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: have nowadays than it was under Chip Kelly.

548
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: In my Here's the other thing, and this I think

549
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: has to do with everybody, but it's how good are

550
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: you at attracting a high level head coach who then

551
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: can recruit both coaches and players to that program, retain

552
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: those coaches for as long as humanly possible if they're very,

553
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: very good, and then go out and have to replace

554
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: often if you do have a good eye for assistant coaches.

555
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: Oregon hired Willie Taggart. Oregon couldn't attract the head coach

556
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: of Temple to Eugene Oregon. He instead took the job

557
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: in Waco because he felt like that was going to

558
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: be and now they gave him a seven year deal

559
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: and I understand that. But Baylor, who has had no

560
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: real history recently, I know, you know, they have the

561
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: Brill's years where they score a ton of points and

562
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: they have a good national team. But Oregon has been

563
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: a better program, and a coach selects Baylor over Oregon,

564
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: and so they go to Willie Taggert. It's how far

565
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: down the roster of backup offers to head coaches do

566
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: you have to go? And that's where, like you mentioned

567
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: a team like Oklahoma or Notre Dame, even though their results,

568
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: you know they've they've had similar stretches. Both Oklahoma and

569
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: Notre Dame and are a better place right now? Is

570
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: what can you attract to that place in terms of

571
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: coaching talent, And that's yet to be seen as a

572
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: strength of Oregon right now. Their best coach ever was

573
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: a New Hampshire offensive coordinator, which is not necessarily a

574
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: sustainable model for success. So that to me lowers their sealing.

575
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: That careless whisper.

576
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: Notre Dame, I think is a true quarterback away. You know,

577
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 2: we've covered this ground time and again. There a true

578
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: quarterback away from I think getting to that playoff and

579
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: being a serious threat.

580
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: Here's a question, though, and I want to tie both

581
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: of your teams together because we got responses about both

582
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: of these teams. Why can't Notre Dame and Penn State

583
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: find a high high level recruit or develop a medium

584
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: to high level recruit into something special. So Penn State's

585
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: best modern quarterback was I guess, depending on your vantage point,

586
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: either freshman year Christian Hackenberg or twenty was it twenty seventeen?

587
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: Twenty eighteen, No, twenty seventeen, Trace mcsoriy, Trace McSorley. Yeah, right,

588
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: So you have one season of excellence or very goodness

589
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: from Trace mcsory. But then you go back ten fifteen

590
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: years you're like, well, I mean Darryl Clark was fun,

591
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: but like, they just have not been able to traditionally.

592
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: Matt mcgloin's fine, but they are not able to both

593
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: of these schools. You have a really good statistical year

594
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: from Jimmy Claus in a losing season. What is it

595
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: about those two places? And I don't know, I don't

596
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: have an answer. Maybe you do. Well, it's like they

597
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: can't find it. They can't find and develop a like

598
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: let's have a conversation deep into October about whether this

599
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: quarterback is Heisman caliber. Yeah, I mean I.

600
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: Hate looking back like twenty five years. I let's say so,

601
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: let's keep it. Let's keep it in the present with

602
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 2: the current situation. The Penn State one is easy. James

603
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 2: Franklin and Christian Hackenberg wasn't exactly a marriage made in heaven.

604
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: But the trace Big Sorely thing under Joe moorehead was

605
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: electric and that was exciting and that propelled the early

606
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: part of Franklin's tenure in State College. I mean, it

607
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 2: just it was incredible. Trace Saquon Chris Godwin on some

608
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: of those teams like these are really awesome college players

609
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: who that offense. Yeah, for sure. So look, I think

610
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: there's definitely a lot less to go on with Franklin

611
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 2: than someone like a Brian Kelly. But on Franklin's side,

612
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 2: the Clifford thing hasn't worked out the last two years.

613
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 2: I'm all but certain they're going to end up going

614
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: in a different direction. I don't know if it's with

615
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: a guy like a Taekwon Roberson or if it's Christian

616
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: v Oh, they're going to go in a different direction.

617
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: I think they have to at quarterback and especially bringing

618
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 2: in Mike Yersich, I just think it's inevitable that Clifford's

619
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 2: not long for that job. On the Notre Dame side

620
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 2: of things, you know, it's really an interesting case for

621
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: Brian Kelly because so much of the recruiting elsewhere has

622
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 2: been awesome. They have done a great job turning out

623
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: pro talent along both offensive end defensive lines. They've developed

624
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: the tight end position, they've had standout wide receivers, the

625
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 2: two spots I guess.

626
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: All American defenders. Yeah, yeah, the.

627
00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 2: Two spots that I guess I would point to or

628
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 2: really haven't had that high high level talent cornerback and

629
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 2: I think quar turnback.

630
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: They just haven't they.

631
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's big, and you know what affects you against

632
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 2: the past, the other inhibits your ability to pass. And

633
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 2: they've had flashes here and there. You know, that first

634
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 2: year with Deshaun Kais was really good. Even the second

635
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 2: year under Deshaun Kaiser was pretty good, but even that

636
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: felt a little bit like catching lightning in a bottle.

637
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: It was by virtue of an injury that they were.

638
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: But it's all relative to their ceiling as well. Pretty

639
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: good is not going to get you to Notre Dame.

640
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: Notre Dame ceiling is. I think it is where we

641
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: see it. I think it's right. I think it's right there. Yeah,

642
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: I don't think I think they're a national championship caliber

643
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: program with like an additional half a booster, Like what

644
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: with what they have right now, they're going to peter

645
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: out as a playoff team. Yeah.

646
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 2: Look, you could argue, you could argue that the job

647
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: that Ryan Kelly did with Ian Book was outstanding, that

648
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: he developed him into a good enough quarterback to run

649
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: a system, a specific system that got them through to

650
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: the playoff. That was a successful campaign that was like

651
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: the most successful quarterback campaign in the history of Notre

652
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: Dame quarterback campaigns in terms of wins and losses. Ebook

653
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 2: was very good. He just wasn't good enough to elevate

654
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 2: them above the likes of like a Trevor Lawrence. And

655
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 2: that's saying something, right, that's pretty damn good. Why haven't

656
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: they got that generational quarterback yet?

657
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: I don't know.

658
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just dumb luck. I don't have an answer.

659
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 2: I don't have a specific answer for that. Guys who

660
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 2: are supposed to be that, but I don't know. I

661
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 2: think a lot of it too. And it goes to

662
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 2: Penn State as well. Is it's not just recruiting, it's

663
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: recruiting strategy because if I remember correctly, Penn State had

664
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: a commitment from Justin Fields and so the evaluation was there.

665
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 2: Justin Field was a no brainer as a recruit. James

666
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 2: Franklin convinced him to go to Penn State from Georgia.

667
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: Is that smart to put your eggs in the basket

668
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 2: of a quarterback that far away, who is that pursued

669
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 2: and lives in a state and a region now obviously

670
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 2: ends up leaving the region. But is that smart given

671
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 2: the precious, he's going to feel to stay home to

672
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 2: risk it all. It probably is because you have to

673
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: have that kind of confidence in a program of Penn

674
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 2: State size, that you have the confidence that, like, of course,

675
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 2: the best quarterback in the country or one of the

676
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 2: best two quarterbacks in the country is going to come

677
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 2: to our school.

678
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: We are Penn State. Literally it says we are, So

679
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: you have to have that confidence. But also when it

680
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: doesn't work out, if there's no not necessarily backup plan,

681
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: but no way to organize around not getting that guy,

682
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: it feels like a risk without much of a net.

683
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: And that's what now has come to fruition, it seems. Yeah,

684
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: all right, some other responsible way I think. I think

685
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: Penn State ceiling is opponent irrelevant. So the best of

686
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: Penn State can win the Big Ten, no matter how

687
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: good or bad Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, whoever is

688
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: because the best of Penn State involves an excellent defense

689
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: and a creative, effective offense. So the best of Penn State,

690
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a playoff winning team, but

691
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: it's a playoff semi team. It's a playoff semi team

692
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah.

693
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: Some other answers that we got here. I'll run the

694
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 2: full spectrum from National power to Missouri.

695
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: Whoa unnecessary slam at Missoo, we love you Como at

696
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: least I do, Davis says with drink Witz at Missoo.

697
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 2: I have to say my expectations are to eventually have

698
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 2: nine to ten win seasons. That feels like the ceiling now,

699
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: giving the trend in the SEC. I'll tell you if

700
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 2: Mszoos win a ten games, it's a hell of a year.

701
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: And I like you I drink, I like Eli Drink.

702
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: It's a lot.

703
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: Excuse me, but it might take a little bit to

704
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 2: get there. But I do believe in him. Uh he's excitable.

705
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: You gotta love that about him.

706
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: Miszoos won the East twice in the last decade. If

707
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: my math is correct, Yes, I've ended up in the

708
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: SEC championship game. I think that's probably the ceiling and

709
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: their opponent dependent very much so very much so. Georgia Florida,

710
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: Georgia Florida, both Georgia Florida. One of the two needs

711
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 1: to be down. I have no idea what to make

712
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: of Tennessee long term, because nobody does other than just

713
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: like expect a little bit less than you think you should.

714
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: So they're opponent dependent, but also they've proven themselves able

715
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 1: to attract talent and develop talent. Now it's hard to say,

716
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: just like Missoo in general because these are different coaches.

717
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: Is a different program, but the program is set up

718
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: to win the programs in a major conference. The program,

719
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 1: when they do succeed a little bit, can attract talent.

720
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: I think they are ten wins in the short term

721
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: seems ambitious. I'd put them at probably nine with help.

722
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: But if things break and the health is unusually amazing, Yeah,

723
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: it's winning the East. It's absolutely winning the East, especially

724
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: if they have a bunch of upperclassmen and one of

725
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: the quote unquote traditional powers in Georgia Florida is you know,

726
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: hitting a run of mediocrity.

727
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 2: We've got Vandy here. The number one goal the next

728
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: three years is a winning season, including a bowl win.

729
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 2: Ceiling for US is likely number three in the SEC

730
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 2: East in a complimentary bowl game outside of the state,

731
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 2: hopefully in parentheses. Clerk Lee taking over at Vandy. We

732
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:53,959
Speaker 2: know that clerk Lee.

733
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: Really wanted that job.

734
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: He really wanted that job because he could have held

735
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 2: out with the defense. He had built at Notre Dame

736
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 2: and gotten a higher profile gig. There was any question

737
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 2: about that, but he wanted Vandy. He has a familiarity

738
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 2: with Vandy, and it excitedly took that job. A winning

739
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 2: season has been done. It has been done. James Franklin

740
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: did it at Vandy. Derek Mason, you know from the grow.

741
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 1: But interesting stretches of defense.

742
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 2: I think I think that's entirely possible in the next

743
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 2: three years at Vandy under Clarkley.

744
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: So twenty twelve, Vanderbilt goes nine to four, five and

745
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,919
Speaker 1: three in the SEC and they finished the season ranked

746
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 1: in the top twenty five. Amaze. No, you probably don't

747
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: have the standings in front of you, but I do.

748
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 1: Do you know how many wins these six teams or

749
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: just the bottom six teams that year Missoo, Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Auburn, Ole,

750
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 1: miss combined to win in the SEC. Six teams combined

751
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: to win five games Miszoo two and six, Tennessee one

752
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: and seven, Kentucky, Ohn eight. That's a joker Phillips team,

753
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: Arkansas two and six, Auburn O and eight. Jean Chisick

754
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: gets fired. That's the Scott Leffler BVG year Ole miss

755
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: Oho to five. I believe this is Hugh Freeze's first

756
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: that they vacated Wins.

757
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the opportunity truck we were talking about earlier.

758
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: So Vandy needs that, you know, that air horn Hong Hong.

759
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: They they are so dependent. Now what is Vandy's ceiling

760
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: in terms of what they can do within the program? Well,

761
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: they can recruit smart. I mean, obviously Clark Lee is

762
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: looking at his job as can I be the Pat

763
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: Fitzgerald of the SEC East, in which year over year,

764
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: basically forever and ever, there's a baseline and a floor

765
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: that's pretty high of competence that they get guys who

766
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 1: buy in. They play a very specific system in both

767
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 1: cases defense and offensively, searching for efficiency as the absolute best,

768
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: probably because that's what Northwestern has been able to get

769
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: by with. But right now and in the long term,

770
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: I feel actually pretty good about Vanderbilt getting somewhat close

771
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: to the opportunity truck because the East is not in

772
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: an amazing place. South Carolina is starting over again Miszoo

773
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,919
Speaker 1: and its infancy with a new coach, Tennessee, Kentucky starting over,

774
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 1: Kentucky not starting over but they are down right now.

775
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: It's because of that offense, but they've had a good

776
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: defense and they did just hit a ceiling recently. So Kentucky,

777
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 1: I would say, is a decent spot. I'd take it back.

778
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: But Mississippi State's in a down place in infancy. Arkansas interesting,

779
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: but you know it's going to take a while. Auburn's

780
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: starting over, Ole miss starting over but promising, but defense

781
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: was pretty atrocious. So Vandy has a truck opportunity, but

782
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 1: they don't internally have much. So I'd say with the

783
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:56,959
Speaker 1: right drafting, I'll put it right now long term at six, Yeah,

784
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: I mean I think that's the and it's a good

785
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 1: expert winning season. I guess if you get crazy lucky

786
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: with a bowl match up, yeah, you can get to

787
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 1: seven and six.

788
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's going to require you to win

789
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,959
Speaker 2: what two sec games.

790
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: To s Yeah, it'll required no, maybe three, two or

791
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: three on the table. Three with your non con it

792
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: probably means getting either extremely lucky with a high school quarterback,

793
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: or Clark Lee and his coaching staff clicking with a

794
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 1: pretty good transfer, a proven transfer having a good defense.

795
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: The Nashville thing is interesting to me. I am not

796
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: a big believer. I've said this before in being able

797
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: to recruit to bigger cities and hit ceilings in those

798
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: big cities. I guess we'll see with Texas. But right now,

799
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: in the modern era, I think there's so much distracting

800
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: about recruiting to a city as opposed to a town

801
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 1: that I don't know. I don't know if Nashville is

802
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: the allure that it is to sports writers as it

803
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: is like seventeen year olds. But here's what you hear

804
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: a lot of sports writers saying, oh my god, it's

805
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: a no brainer, I can go to college in Nashville.

806
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: Like I don't think. I think kids just want to

807
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: go where they get developed to be NFL players now.

808
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 2: But my point on Vandy is they're not exactly scheduling

809
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 2: goliaths in the non con. They've got a game against

810
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: Stanton think this coming year, which is a nice game

811
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 2: for them, But otherwise Eastern Tennessee, Colorado State, Yukon, those

812
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 2: are winnable games.

813
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: Those are winnable games.

814
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 2: In a circumstance where Clarkley has built up something of

815
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 2: a of a foundation, you can win those games. So

816
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think I think six and six

817
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: is is right for that? Let's go through some other

818
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 2: ones here real quick. So I mentioned UCF, and Josh says,

819
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: I went to UCF. I know for a fact the

820
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 2: ceiling is New Year's New Year's Bowl Game. I got

821
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,919
Speaker 2: the receipts to prove it too. The group of five

822
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 2: teams very interesting to me. Okay, very interesting to me

823
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,959
Speaker 2: because the obvious answer is, of course New Year's six,

824
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 2: rightly or wrongly. Is there a scenario in which a

825
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 2: group of five teams ceiling is actually the playoffs?

826
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: No, but I still think it's fascinating it does. The

827
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: playoff doesn't matter to me with regard to I mean,

828
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: basically most teams in twenty twenty one. No, I guess depends.

829
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 2: No.

830
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna stick with no. But I'm curious about

831
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: certain schools that have had success or should have success

832
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: on the G five level, which is still the FBS level.

833
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: What schools are interesting to you five? I mean, like

834
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: you see, if we know yep, we know they can

835
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: go undefeated, they can beat good teams that are Power

836
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: five teams. Whatever. Houston, I think, ah man, it felt

837
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 1: like they were hitting that with Tom Herman with some

838
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: flaws offensive flaws they should be. I don't think they

839
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: will be under Dana Holgerson. But yeah that Houston has

840
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 1: that that high high ceiling. Cincinnati has that hig high ceiling.

841
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: Cincinnati absolutely does.

842
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 2: See Cincinnati has the defensive component that oftentimes you don't

843
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: see from group of fives. That that's been the knock

844
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:32,959
Speaker 2: right on teams like UF in the past.

845
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,919
Speaker 1: We've had some really good Boise defenses, San Diego State defenses,

846
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 1: but yeah, on that high high New Year six level, Yeah,

847
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: you're right, I mean you defense is essentially what led

848
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: them to that season. But yeah, I mean they have

849
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: this crazy efficient offense and fun offense, but it is

850
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: the defense that was really doing a lion's share of

851
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 1: the work. I'm gonna say, Yeah, I'm trying to think, like,

852
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: who is the most fascinating group of five teams in

853
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: terms of a ceiling we have hit yet? We know

854
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: Boise State ceiling. Yeah, But like, so is it Fresn.

855
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: You know, San Jose was definitely an opportunity situation with

856
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 1: a down Fresno and San Diego State lost a couple

857
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: of times. I believe it's just weird season in general,

858
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: but they really improve things internally. But man. I mean,

859
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: I know we like to focus on the American but

860
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. Conference USA, like Charlotte has an interesting ceiling.

861
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: They go on that run a couple of years ago.

862
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: But I don't know if you're good in that area.

863
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: It's tough to become a forty nine er. It's tough

864
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 1: to like build up that that class of killers year

865
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 1: over year, just because you know, if Will Healy goes

866
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: whatever ten and two, this, he's gone. He's just gonna

867
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: He's gone.

868
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 2: He's gone, all right. Some other answers here that came in.

869
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: Nicholas writes in about Michigan. He says, Michigan's ceiling is

870
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 2: to start ten and one, be competitive again to Ohio

871
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 2: State in the first half, and then lose a bowl

872
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 2: game somewhere in the state of Florida. A pessimistic fan

873
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 2: of the Wolverines, Nicholas, what is.

874
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: Michigan's ceiling are they? I mean, Michigan fans, obviously, what

875
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,720
Speaker 1: have you believed that they're a national champion caliber program?

876
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 1: It's haven't they haven't been to the playoff?

877
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is where this is where there's a room

878
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 2: for interpretation historically, historically now Michigan's absolutely a national championship

879
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 2: caliber program. It's a blue blood historically. Recently, though, the

880
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,240
Speaker 2: way things have been trending, I think Nicholas a spot

881
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: on here. I think the conference championship is sort of

882
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 2: the upper rung of where we're at. Can they get

883
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 2: back to being playoff contenders? Absolutely, And I don't think

884
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 2: it takes much to get them there, because recruiting still

885
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 2: has been really strong at Michigan. But just if we

886
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: take the pri that we've seen on the field, I mean,

887
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 2: your absolute upper rung, everything going blessed me, thank you,

888
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 2: absolute upper rung, everything going according to plan, opportunity truck

889
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 2: driving in front of you, Ohio State getting a new

890
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 2: quarterback right in twenty twenty one, Penn State still trying

891
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 2: to do the thing with Sean Clifford, Michigan finding its way,

892
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 2: maybe with British comedy legend Allan Bowman. It's probably the

893
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 2: Big Ten conference at best.

894
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 1: I think so. I think they just occupying a division

895
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: with Ohio State, who seems to be set up for

896
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 1: the long term in a way that they're only going

897
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:48,280
Speaker 1: to grow stronger somehow. It is very difficult to start

898
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: to compete against like It's going to take years for

899
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: Michigan to get to a place where they could just

900
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 1: happen to beat Ohio State twenty eight to seventeen would

901
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: do it. But the confidence and ability to be a

902
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: program that is eleven points better than Ohio State. We've

903
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,240
Speaker 1: seen Ohio State lose to lesser teams, but Michigan right now,

904
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 1: it's almost institutional, like, are we willing to do whatever

905
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: it takes? Are we willing to pay coordinators an obscene

906
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: amount of money to keep them if they're excellent and

907
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: everybody's trying to hire them? Are we willing to recruit

908
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:33,720
Speaker 1: in a fashion that sometimes Michigan is unwilling to allegedly

909
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: And I don't make any value judgments, but that is

910
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: something that separates allegedly Michigan from some of the big, big,

911
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: big national powers that Michigan no longer is. Is there

912
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: that element of Michigan saying internally externally are they broadcasting

913
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: we will do whatever it takes. Now they're paying Jim

914
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: Harbor a bunch of money, though now they're paying them

915
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: less money. They went after a huge fish as a

916
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: head coach and it worked out in terms of they

917
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: got hit. So that was a big success. But with

918
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: regard to developing guys, with regard to saying, look at

919
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: all of these NFL players that we're developing. With regard

920
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: to this is this quarterback who's a Heisman contender, which

921
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: is what all of the schools that they fancy themselves

922
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: to be in the company of Ohio State, Clemson, in Alabama, Jority, Oh,

923
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:27,399
Speaker 1: you know whatever, Oklahoma, I don't know. I think there

924
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: is still that element of we do things the Capitol

925
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 1: are right way to Michigan that gives them that ceiling

926
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: that you and was it Nate Nick talked about of Nicholas. Yeah,

927
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,919
Speaker 1: ten to eleven wins, but not competing with Ohio State

928
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,919
Speaker 1: or losing something dumb to Iowa or Wisconsin or Penn

929
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: State or a team like that that is going to

930
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: hold them back from becoming a true killer. I think

931
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: Michigan does self impose and have the bad luck of

932
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: having Ohio State and the division. They they have that ceiling. So, yeah,

933
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 1: ten and eleven and one not a national championship program.

934
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: I think to go up or wrong, it's without Harball

935
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 2: at this point. And that's that's not because I think

936
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 2: Harball is a bad coach. I think it was incredible

937
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 2: hire to go out and get Jim Harbaugh at there

938
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 2: was We had conversations I remember what the distinctly conversations

939
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 2: with Brian Cook from m GO blog around the time

940
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 2: that these horrorball rumors were heating up. And I'm not

941
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: even sure he believed it. You know, among the most

942
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 2: connected in the Michigan universe, I'm not even sure he

943
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 2: believed that that was a possibility. They went out and

944
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 2: they got him. It's a huge hire. I don't believe it.

945
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean neither.

946
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 2: It hasn't really worked out the way that they had hoped,

947
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 2: but it was. It was a noble effort and they

948
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 2: paid for it handsobly. But a noble effort hasn't quite

949
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: worked out. And Harbaugh has this track record of places

950
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 2: that he's been, whether it's in college or the pros

951
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 2: or you name it. He sort of burns people out

952
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 2: around him, and he burns himself out a little bit

953
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 2: as well. I just don't see him being long for

954
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 2: ann Arbor. I think if they really want to achieve

955
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 2: their their maximum, I mean.

956
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: He already is kind of long fran Arbor well, okay

957
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: for seven years or something. Looking forward, yeah, okay.

958
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 2: Moving forward, I don't think it's going to be a

959
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 2: long term solution, and I think if they want to

960
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: get back to that mountaintop, it's going to be with

961
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 2: somebody else.

962
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: But they also, for whatever reason, this is just me

963
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: pulling it out of thin air, they feel like in perpetuity,

964
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: how much it takes in terms of luck, in terms

965
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: of recruiting, in terms of coaching and attrition, whatever, that

966
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: they're never going to be a half team, but they

967
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: kind of always will be. If I can contradict myself

968
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 1: real quick, like they will have a killer quarterback and

969
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: a defense that falls apart like we saw with Denard Robinson.

970
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: They will have this killer defense but start Wilson's spate

971
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: and rely on power that works a lot of the

972
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 1: time on the ground, But then when they need to

973
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 1: do something creative, there's nothing there. We're talking about a

974
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: fatal flaw. We're talking about a fatal flaw, and to

975
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: some extent, they're going to be like a one point

976
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 1: eight too. They're going to be a blink one point

977
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: eight to two team. Yeah, we're talking about a fatal flaw.

978
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: We're talking to some extent about a self fulfilling prophecy,

979
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: at least among the fan base. People sure feeling very pessimistic,

980
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:23,320
Speaker 1: people who are pessimistic yet somehow still optimistic. Everything blunted

981
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 1: a little bit with that qualifier. So, okay, Michigan's interesting,

982
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: let's do like two more if you got to Virginia

983
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: Tech pitt TCU. We got responses about all of those Wisconsin.

984
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 2: Were we out of Virginia Tech's USC What was the

985
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 2: answer in Virginia Tech?

986
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: Uh? This tweeter said, six wins. I believe, I don't

987
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: know how that's the ceiling. Six wins and making a

988
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 1: ball feels like a ceiling. I miss when an a

989
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: SEC championship and in an Orange Bowl was the ceiling.

990
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,919
Speaker 1: I suppose maybe he's talking about them as a six

991
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: maybe seven win team because of justin Flente and the

992
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 1: depths to which recruiting has fallen that it doesn't seem

993
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: like a turnaroundable situation in Blacksburg. I think right now

994
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 1: it's eight or nine wins?

995
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah, six wins, come on, it's definitely

996
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 2: higher than six wins.

997
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: But are they winning nine? Ever? With justin Flente moving forward?

998
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 1: I think they could? Okay? Why not? Why couldn't they.

999
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 2: Is it is it that stiff of competition in the

1000
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 2: ACC that win they can't pull off nine wins.

1001
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: It's hard to get better as recruiting gets worse year

1002
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,399
Speaker 1: over year. It's hard to have that element of your

1003
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 1: program go downward, but your win totals go up unless

1004
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: you're in a terrible conference or you already have an

1005
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: amazing quarterback and group of coordinators. And I don't think

1006
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: Virginia Tech as a So it's that's a hard inverted

1007
00:56:59,000 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: graph to sell me on.

1008
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 2: I guess I just the Coastal Division has Duke, Georgia Tech,

1009
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 2: Pitt Virginia, Virginia's gotten better at football Miami. And obviously

1010
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 2: we're talking about all gettable teams these past couple of year,

1011
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 2: all gettable, they're all going. Virginia Tech wasn't picking them up.

1012
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 2: They weren't anywhere near the Coastal truck.

1013
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I think for sure, nine.

1014
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 2: Wins is that's not even the peak. The peak is

1015
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 2: winning your side of the of the conference right now,

1016
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 2: because you're just not gonna be Clemson.

1017
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: You're not You're not gonna be Clemson. It's not gonna happen. Yeah,

1018
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 1: techam a the a SEC championship game in twenty sixteen,

1019
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: and that was our I believe extremely early on maybe

1020
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: the first year of yeah, first year of Justin Fuente,

1021
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: y on ten and four. Right, So what has the

1022
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: trend line looked like? No, it's not great a Tech. Yeah,

1023
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: it's not great. And there's some tough games on the

1024
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: schedule this year. They got North Carolina's Sam Howe to

1025
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 1: open up the year.

1026
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 2: It's in Blacksburg. It's a tough game. You got a

1027
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 2: game against Notre Dame on the road at Miami, on

1028
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 2: the road at Virginia So it's not the easiest route,

1029
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 2: but they miss Clemson, like they could easily go eight

1030
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 2: or nine wins with this schedule right now, easily this

1031
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 2: coming year.

1032
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: Hold on a good Virginia Tech team could who are

1033
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 1: they starting at quarterback? Raxenbourg? I start, I get back

1034
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: to you about that one. We'll get back to you.

1035
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: Right We're talking about Virginia Tech continuing what they look

1036
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: like in like twenty twelve, could go eight nine wins

1037
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: deep into this year's this season. I just I don't know.

1038
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: You gotta watch Virginia Tech football time I've watched.

1039
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 2: Maybe you shouldn't I've watched. I mean, this is a

1040
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 2: get There are some tough games on here. This is

1041
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 2: a very gettable schedule.

1042
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: It's a gettable schedule for like Florida State maybe, or

1043
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: Louisville or you know a team that appears to be

1044
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: on an upward trend.

1045
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 2: All right, whatever, let's go on two more here, Arizona State, Dan,

1046
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 2: Let's go out west. Rose Bowl is an is the

1047
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 2: absolute top of the ceiling? Win the PAC twelve, ten

1048
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 2: or eleven wins. I cannot imagine a scenario where we

1049
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 2: are a contender for the playoff. That's from Nick strong

1050
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 2: showing by the Knicks here.

1051
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, this this question resonated with our Nick friends Rose Bowl.

1052
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 2: Saying absolute, absolute top is the Rose Bowl.

1053
00:59:54,600 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: I think I'm leaning more Alamo Fiesta. Fiesta Bawl is

1054
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: a New Year six game. Fiestaval is a great game.

1055
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 1: It isn't wrong the Fiesta Bowl. So he's seeing the

1056
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: PAC twelve.

1057
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 2: Nick is even struggling with this. I understand absolutely, he's

1058
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 2: not like emphatic the Rose Bowl. Yes, he's saying, maybe

1059
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 2: if the opportunity truck comes rolling around the corner, we

1060
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 2: could win the PAC twelve. Otherwise it's like ten wins.

1061
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably ten wins in Fiesta A ten win Fiesta,

1062
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: ten win Alamo appearance, just because I struggle right now

1063
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: looking at if Arizona State's winning the PAC twelve. We

1064
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: are talking about them edging out USC, which they almost

1065
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: did this year, which was the South champ edging out USC,

1066
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 1: or having a down USC and probably a down Utah.

1067
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: We're being honest about teams that are squarely ahead of

1068
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: Arizona State in terms of the South pecking order, having

1069
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: UCLA State as down as they've been, although that's an

1070
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: ascending UCLA program right now, and then in the North

1071
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: have an uncharacteristically down Oregon year, which twenty twenty was

1072
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 1: in twenty what was it sixteen, the final year of

1073
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: Mark Helfrich was, So that can happen their own health.

1074
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: Recruiting has been really climbing in a good way for

1075
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: Arizona State, but there is still something about what their

1076
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: overall talent level needs to be and where the rest

1077
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: of the conference needs to be. That ASU having a

1078
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: top twenty unit on both sides, or having a top

1079
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 1: eight unit on one side and a top fifty unit

1080
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 1: on the other side, that I am not ready to

1081
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 1: call plausible. I think there's too much standing in the way.

1082
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: They can't recruit their state, which is a growing talent

1083
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: of a state, and that concerns me. I just I

1084
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 1: don't know Herm Edwards raising the trophy? Could he raise

1085
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 1: a Holiday Boll Trophy at Alimo bol Trope? To be sure? Sure?

1086
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: Even then they are they're all in on recruiting, but

1087
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: don't recruit in state. And I don't know if I

1088
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: love the coaching staff the current one. I think you're

1089
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: can attract pretty good coaches, but there's also that element

1090
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: of ASU. You know, it's Dirk Cutter, it's Dennis Erickson,

1091
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 1: it's Todd Graham, It's there's an element that I just

1092
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 1: think to myself, are they are they going to be

1093
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: able to find a guy if it's not Herm Edwards.

1094
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 2: Who's the perfect guy for Arizona State, who's a perfect

1095
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 2: coach that would turn that program around outside of like

1096
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 2: Urban Meyer.

1097
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: Oh. I think if they get lucky with like a

1098
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: West Coast up and comer, like if Andy Avlos just

1099
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: as incredible at BOIS, I think that's an interesting name

1100
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 1: because I think he would hire really well at his

1101
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: own Power five program. I think he's hired pretty well

1102
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: at Boise. I don't know enough about Brent Brennan at

1103
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: San Jose State, though I know the job he did

1104
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 1: was great. I think guys like that are interesting. But

1105
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 1: they're also always going to be that program because I

1106
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: don't think they can I don't think they can have

1107
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 1: killers at every position. That they're always going to be

1108
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: that program that needs an zero to nine Arizona A

1109
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 1: two and seven UCLA the opportunity, but they need well,

1110
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 1: they need the But I mean ten and two ceiling

1111
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: is incredible. I don't understand why why we have to

1112
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: like hold ASU to a uh an over ten win

1113
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: standard for a ceiling when ten win as a ceiling

1114
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 1: is pretty great.

1115
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 2: We're again, this is a relative measure. Yeah, and there

1116
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 2: are some folks here who are clearly winting to try

1117
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 2: and see, squinting to try and see this ceiling. And

1118
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 2: I think in this case we've got that exact situation.

1119
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 2: Let me close it out with this one. Okay, A

1120
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 2: M no, whatever you want. Well, I was going to

1121
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 2: go to West Virginia, but we can go AM as

1122
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 2: well if you want. Yeah, I got nowhere to be

1123
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 2: West Virginia. Best case scenario ceiling is probably eleven and

1124
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 2: one and one of the traditional New Year six Bowls

1125
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 2: and eleven and one, West Virginia surely gets passed over

1126
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 2: for a national championship birth playoff berth hard to realistically

1127
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 2: believe West Virginia ever puts an undefeated season together with

1128
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 2: their travel and a nine game conference schedules. There's a

1129
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 2: lot to unpack there. From Mountain Raven great name, eleven

1130
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 2: and one is robust. That is a robust schedule and

1131
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 2: a robust so ceiling for West Virginia.

1132
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: One of their all time great coaches, Dana Holgerson, won

1133
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: double digit games once, went ten to two and twenty sixteen.

1134
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 1: Believe West Virginia's best season record wise of all time

1135
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 1: involved one of the all time great backfields, Steve Slaton

1136
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 1: pow White two thousand and five. Rich Rod Right, yes,

1137
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 1: rich Rod, And that was a different conference. That was

1138
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 1: the Big East. I have West Virginia right now at

1139
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: an absolute ceiling of ten wins in the Big Twelve.

1140
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 1: Lose to one of the more quote unquote traditional powers

1141
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 1: and then lose like you get just bad scheduling luck

1142
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 1: and you get a road back to back and or

1143
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 1: bringing you back and forth, whatever it is. It's hard

1144
01:05:56,600 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 1: for me to envision West Virginia right now under Neild

1145
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 1: or under whoever getting to that point in not the

1146
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 1: best recruiting area, though they do have a pretty incredible

1147
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 1: inroads in Florida traditionally getting to the point where they

1148
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 1: can overcome I think the built in limitations to win

1149
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 1: eleven games and be in that playoff conversation. So I

1150
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 1: think they are. I think their ceiling is above Arizona State,

1151
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 1: but not quite eleven, so I think they're right in

1152
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 1: that nine point eight to ten point two win ceiling.

1153
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's interesting because I do feel like the

1154
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 2: Big Twelve is gettable.

1155
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 1: The Big Twelve has a very.

1156
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 2: Thick middle crust of teams that fall into like that

1157
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 2: seven and five, eight and four territory. It's not a

1158
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 2: bad conference by any stretch, but Oklahoma is clearly the

1159
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 2: upper crust of the Big Twelve. The rest of it,

1160
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of upward mobility, and West

1161
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 2: Virginia probably falls in that category. But what the respondent

1162
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 2: Mountain Raven what a name, what he or she accurately

1163
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 2: points out is that they are geographically removed from the

1164
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 2: epicenter of the conference, and that's part of the reason

1165
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 2: why it's always felt like a really odd fit for

1166
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 2: West Virginia in the Big Twelve. There's so much farther

1167
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 2: east than the rest of the conference, and that poses

1168
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 2: an interesting challenge on the recruiting trail.

1169
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 1: For sure.

1170
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 2: I think we both like their coach. We both like

1171
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 2: the coach, we like that move looking forward at the

1172
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 2: next like five to six years of non conference games.

1173
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 2: They've of course got the game against Pittlake every year,

1174
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 2: and for at least the next two years they're slated

1175
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 2: against Virginia Tech. But along the way they pick up

1176
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 2: Penn State. If you go all the way out to

1177
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, they pick up Alabama. So if we're

1178
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 2: talking about one loss, that's a really good West Virginia

1179
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:09,280
Speaker 2: team that's knocking off all of those teams on his schedule,

1180
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 2: probably losing only to an Oklahoma or a Penn State

1181
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 2: or an Alabama. Ten wins I think is tops. I'm

1182
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 2: with you. Ten wins is absolutely tops. And that's contingent

1183
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 2: on them putting an offense together. That's contingent on them

1184
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 2: playing the Neil Brown defense that we've seen in years past.

1185
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 2: At other stops for him, like it all has to

1186
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 2: go right, I think to get the ten wins.

1187
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 1: If you're the Mountaineers, I would love. I would love

1188
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:40,720
Speaker 1: as he also cannot mess up a coordinator higher. No, no,

1189
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 1: of course not, because we've seen the desktops to which

1190
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 1: both sides of the ball can fall with a pretty

1191
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 1: bad hire, the margin for err is pretty slim. Yeah,

1192
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:56,519
Speaker 1: all right, did you want to do A and M

1193
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 1: real quick? Yeah?

1194
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:01,719
Speaker 2: A and M thoughts, So you know they're paying Jimbo

1195
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 2: Fisher at King's ransom, came over from Florida State Man.

1196
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: We don't have to talk about his contract there on

1197
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 1: the edge of the playoff, he's fine.

1198
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 2: Well, I'm saying they hired him. They hired him to

1199
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 2: raise this ceiling specifically. So in order to get to

1200
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 2: the playoff, you probably gotta win. You probably gotta be

1201
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:27,679
Speaker 2: damn impressive in the SEC in the SEC west yep.

1202
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:31,679
Speaker 2: And if the opportunity truck is rolling around the corner

1203
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 2: for a team like I don't know, a Virginia Tech,

1204
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 2: it's sure as hell ain't rolling around for a team

1205
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 2: like a Texas A and M, at least not in

1206
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 2: the same way, because's got to deal with Alabama. God,

1207
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 2: deal with LSU. Gotta deal with just a ton of

1208
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 2: AMMO in the SEC West. So is the ceiling the

1209
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:57,839
Speaker 2: SEC West or the ceiling the S Is a ceiling Alabama?

1210
01:09:57,840 --> 01:09:59,599
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're good enough to win the SEC West,

1211
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 1: you're going to to win the SEC. Yeah?

1212
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 2: Is the ceiling Alabama? Beating Alabama?

1213
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 1: So early Kevin some.

1214
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 2: Twenty twelve or whatever, it was twenty thirteen, right.

1215
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:16,439
Speaker 1: And that was a non national champion. They finished five

1216
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 1: in the country. They win the Cotton Bowl, impressive win

1217
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:24,600
Speaker 1: over Oklahoma in Johnny Manzel's first season Heisman season. To

1218
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 1: be clear, I ba ba bah. I think that's their

1219
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 1: absolute ceiling. I don't think they are a I don't

1220
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 1: think we will in any sort of short future. Look

1221
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: at Texas A and M as a perennial playoff threat,

1222
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 1: which if we're saying eleven wins ceiling, that's what we're

1223
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,760
Speaker 1: calling them because since twenty twelve, and I'll throw out

1224
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:51,720
Speaker 1: twenty twenty because that wasn't they didn't get the full

1225
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 1: twelve games to prove it. In terms of the win column,

1226
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:58,759
Speaker 1: they haven't won double digit games again. And in the

1227
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 1: ten or so years before for twenty twelve or even

1228
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 1: like fifteen years, they didn't get to ten wins. Now

1229
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 1: that's at this point agient history and whatever. They're operating

1230
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:11,759
Speaker 1: at a really impressive on an impressive plane, I'm gonna

1231
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 1: say ten wins. No, I'm gonna say ten wins while

1232
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:19,639
Speaker 1: looking like the quality of a playoff team a good

1233
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:24,559
Speaker 1: amount of the time. But in the sec SEC West,

1234
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: I don't think I trust it. I don't think I

1235
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 1: trust them to go Like, how are you supposed to

1236
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 1: have any sort of impressive ceiling in the same division

1237
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:32,840
Speaker 1: as Nick Saban?

1238
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 2: Well, so, speaking of opportunity truck and speaking LSU.

1239
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 1: Did it for a year for a year?

1240
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of circumstances. Nick Saban turns seventy on Halloween

1241
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:52,799
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty. Okay, how much longer is Nick Saban coaching?

1242
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 2: Because I mean, I hate to talk about it from

1243
01:11:57,240 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 2: this perspective, but he can't coach forever.

1244
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 1: Disagree?

1245
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 2: At some point he's got a step aside. Jimbo Fisher

1246
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 2: is a younger guy. You maybe he can outlast him.

1247
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 1: Dan, I mean, this is the old what Stephen Godfrey,

1248
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:18,520
Speaker 1: Bill Connolly game? How much longer? Exactly? And National championships.

1249
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. I seventy years old. How many more

1250
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 1: years can somebody survive, not even survive, thrive as the

1251
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 1: most successful coach of all time, five six somewhere in

1252
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 1: there to me? Sure, No. But the thing is, I

1253
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: think it's entirely possible that the end of the Nick

1254
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:56,559
Speaker 1: Saban era is essentially waking up in you know, the

1255
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 1: middle of fall camp and saying I'm done. I'm not

1256
01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 1: feeling that that eternal burn that I normally do. I

1257
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 1: just did. I just imply Nick Saban with Satan, I'm

1258
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:10,640
Speaker 1: not sure you might have. Yeah, I'm not feeling that

1259
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 1: eternal competitive booster, and it's I'm wasting everybody's time. If

1260
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:18,160
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling it, he's just gonna leave. So that

1261
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 1: could be a year from now, two years from now.

1262
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 1: But I think the flames are the flames are high, ty,

1263
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, four or five years all right?

1264
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:30,559
Speaker 2: Well, look, this is I thought we had a good

1265
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:32,680
Speaker 2: conversation here. I enjoyed talking to you about this.

1266
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 1: Yes, please write it and listening and talking. Yeah, soliverble

1267
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:40,800
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Let us know your thoughts. We

1268
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 1: didn't cover all the teams that were sent to us,

1269
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:45,640
Speaker 1: but I think some of the ones that intrigued us

1270
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 1: the most. Soliverble at gmail dot com. Obviously you know

1271
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 1: where to find us on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram

1272
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 1: and Twitch and all the usual hotspots. We will post

1273
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: as part of this show, posting I don't know, poll

1274
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 1: we something to provoke further thought. Let us know some

1275
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 1: more about your teams and what you think of our

1276
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 1: analysis here. Also, don't forget to subscribe. Find that at

1277
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 1: website soliverble dot com. Forballers dot com is a Patreon.

1278
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:19,839
Speaker 1: We're doing some cool stuff here in the off season, Daniel,

1279
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:23,799
Speaker 1: I think that's all I got do. We have Patriot

1280
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:25,880
Speaker 1: League football starting soon. I think we do.

1281
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 2: I didn't want to say I don't want to do

1282
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 2: it starting.

1283
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 1: I'm seeing the twenty seventh of March. Yeah, is that right? Yeah?

1284
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 1: Oh no, the Patrio League schedule is set to begin.

1285
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 1: That was one. That was one game. It looks like

1286
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 1: it's March thirteenth. There's two divisions. The north is Colgate,

1287
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 1: Fordham holy Cross. The South is Bucknell Lafay at Lehigh TI.

1288
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna come up with some uncomfortable adjectives

1289
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:55,600
Speaker 1: for you. I think starting today's the A. So the

1290
01:14:55,640 --> 01:15:00,760
Speaker 1: thirteenth means nine to ten Saturday. So on our next show,

1291
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 1: are we doing Patriot League? I think we might have to? Yeah,

1292
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:07,599
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm very excited for this. I think

1293
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 1: we might have to.

1294
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, don seeing Saturday, March the thirteenth. I'm looking at

1295
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:17,000
Speaker 2: Lehigh's schedule. Patriot League lightning around coming back on Thursday.

1296
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 1: Dan, Oh my.

1297
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:22,320
Speaker 2: God, Crosssaders coming to Goodman Stadium this Saturday.

1298
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:25,840
Speaker 1: I should go. I really should go. It's the cross

1299
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:27,200
Speaker 1: Saders coming to town.

1300
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:31,759
Speaker 2: They are yeah, Sonny.

1301
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:35,800
Speaker 1: I Plus, I know spring football has already begun other places,

1302
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 1: but we've been This has been our our tan trik holdout. Yeah,

1303
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:43,120
Speaker 1: it really has. It really has to talk about Patrio

1304
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 1: League football this coming Thursday morning. Great done, full Patriot

1305
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:49,919
Speaker 1: League breakdown coming your way on Thursday morning. Yes, Stursday

1306
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:51,760
Speaker 1: tune okay, Danne, fun show.

1307
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:54,720
Speaker 2: Thank you to one and all for your support for

1308
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,679
Speaker 2: playing along with our madness. Soberbal at gmail dot com

1309
01:15:57,680 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 2: as always.

1310
01:15:58,160 --> 01:15:58,599
Speaker 1: Is the email.

1311
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 2: Saltaverbal dot com is the website. Follow along, play along.

1312
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:07,200
Speaker 2: Hope you're all happy and healthy, space safe until next time,

1313
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:08,719
Speaker 2: Stay solid, peace