1 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 8 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 9 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 11 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: for joining me for session four thirty three of the 12 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our 13 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:16,199 Speaker 1: conversation after word from our sponsors. This week, we're celebrating 14 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: two iconic albums that have shaped the sound and soul 15 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: of a generation, Erica Badu's Mama's Gunn and Jill Scott's 16 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: Who Is Jill Scott Words and Sounds Volume One, both 17 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: turned twenty five this year. Joining me for this nostalgic 18 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: and soul filled conversation is Tarren Finley, journalist and founder 19 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: of the Unbothered platform. Together, we explore how these albums 20 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: capture the essence of black womanhood, love, sensuality, and self discovery, 21 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: and why they remain powerful touchstones for healing and self 22 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: expression today. We also talk about the emotional honesty both 23 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: artists brought to their music and how their art continues 24 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: to inspire new generations to embrace softness, vulnerability, and joy. 25 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please 26 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: share with us on social media using the hashtag TVG 27 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: in Session, or join us over in our patreon To 28 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: talk more about the episode. You can join us at 29 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 1: community dot therapy for blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation. 30 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us here. 31 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, Doctor Joy. Longtime listener, you 32 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 2: know I. 33 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 3: Love the work that you do. 34 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. I know we talked a long 35 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: time ago. I feel like it might have been in 36 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: the pandemic you interviewed me for a piece. It feels 37 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: like quite some years ago, so it's been some time 38 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: since we chatted. 39 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy because the pandemic was like it started 40 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: five years ago, but it feels like it's been a 41 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 2: lot less time than that. 42 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 3: So it's really great to reconnect. 43 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So tell the people who you are and 44 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: a little bit about your background as a music journalist. 45 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: I am Aren Finlay. I am a cultural reporter. I've 46 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 2: been doing this for over a decade so far. I 47 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: covered a lot of music in my role as Black 48 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: Voices Editor and senior culture reporter at huff Post, especially 49 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 2: a lot in regards to R and B in retrospective 50 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: looks into hip hop. I did a lot for the 51 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 2: fiftieth anniversary or hip hop coverage over there, and music 52 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: specifically Black music has been such a huge through line 53 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 2: in my reporting because it's been such a huge through 54 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: line in my life. I'm currently writing about it for 55 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 2: my own personal substact. Let me plug that first at 56 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: Let's Stayconnected dot substack dot com, Refinery twenty nine x, 57 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: Sony Cole, contraband, camp Essence, and a few other places. 58 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this definitely has been It feels like you 59 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: are someone who has had your finger on the pulse 60 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: of conversations around black music, which is why we're very 61 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: excited to have this conversation with you. So we are 62 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: gathering today for a very special occasion because both Mama's 63 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: Gun and who is Jill Scott are both celebrating twenty 64 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: five years. 65 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: So can you talk. 66 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: About the impact of these albums and why you think 67 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: they still have such staying power even a quarter of 68 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: a century later. 69 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, two thousand was such a year for 70 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: heavy hitting albums. Obviously, Who Is Jill Scott the Jill 71 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 2: Scott's debut album came out earlier that year, and then 72 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 2: later in November, Mama's Gone, and it just to back 73 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: up into like this kind of window and time where 74 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: Nil Sol was having such a huge moment. 75 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 3: We have work from. 76 00:04:52,960 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: DiAngelo Bloo, Lauren Hill coming out in really redefining and 77 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 2: reshaping how we listen to this genre on the radio 78 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 2: and within quote unquote mainstream. So when we look at 79 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: I'll start with who is Jill Scott? This is Jill 80 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: Scott's debut album. We hear her bus on the scene 81 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: at that live performance with the Roots, the iconic my 82 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: Name is ji I L L S C O T T. 83 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 2: And her making this introduction in such a soulful, sultry, 84 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: seductive and really just like her debut album felt almost 85 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: like Honey. Not to be too cliche, but you know 86 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: she even has a song on that album called Honey molasses, 87 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: and that was such a great descriptor for not only 88 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: the texture of her voice in her lyrics, but also 89 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 2: how it was received. Right, she's talking about love, she's 90 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 2: talking about sex, she's talking about being desired. And this 91 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: is such a huge thing because not only is she 92 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 2: a black woman, but she's also plus sized. And during 93 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 2: the two thousands, we see sex being sold and todd 94 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 2: as a thing that is that only hyper fit and 95 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 2: super skinny, conventionally attractive quote unquote people lean into the 96 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: model ass all of that, and Jill is like, hey, like, 97 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: I'm fine as hell, and not only am I fine, 98 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 2: but I enjoy sex. My man enjoys sex with me, 99 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 2: and not only that, we enjoy being in love together. 100 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 2: And it isn't in a way that it is from 101 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: the male's gaze, but more so like she centers herself 102 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: in this conversation. Similarly with er Kabadu and Mama's Gun. Now, 103 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: the difference when it comes to Mama's Gun, however, is 104 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 2: that er Kabaidu. This was her sophomore album and it 105 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 2: released to kind of tep it reviews. You know, you 106 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: had half of the critics saying that they loved it, 107 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:35,239 Speaker 2: and you know that it was experimental, and of course 108 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 2: it leaned into this afro futuristic sound and narrative. And 109 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: Erica wrote this album, most of this album completely herself, 110 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: and then you have the other half who are like, 111 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: what is this? 112 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 3: This isn't a. 113 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 2: Baduism, This is a flop commercially, even though it so 114 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: went on to sold one million records the following year, 115 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: which that numbers are really subjective at this point, but 116 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: you see Erica not only censoring herself and her experience, 117 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: but also breaking away from the labels and narratives that 118 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 2: the industry really tried to confine her too when she 119 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: released Bodyism. And I could go on and on, but 120 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 2: I feel like these two there's so much to say 121 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: about it, and I know we're gonna get get into 122 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 2: both of these bodies of work even more so. 123 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Taran, you probably have a better sense of this, 124 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: But what is the actual history of how we got 125 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: to nio soul? 126 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 2: Because there had already been like. 127 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: A steady stream of R and B, but this did 128 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: feel like a departure from that in some ways. So 129 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: is there somebody who's really credited with the beginnings of 130 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: neo soul and how do we get there. 131 00:08:57,679 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 3: That's a really good question. 132 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 2: I don't know if there's one specific person, and if 133 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: there is, then you know, listeners, please come out and 134 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 2: correct me. 135 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 3: And let me know. 136 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 2: But like I said, we had, especially in this corridor 137 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 2: of the nineties in early two thousands, such a breadth 138 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: of artists coming out. You have DiAngelo with Voodoo, and 139 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 2: you have Blao, Raphael Sadig, so many artists who leaned 140 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 2: into the black sounds that we have heard from generations before, 141 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 2: like Billie Holliday, like in Aretha Franklin, like a Patti 142 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 2: LaBelle and putting again this kind of Afro futuristic yet 143 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 2: very grounded and earthy undertone in it. One really beautiful 144 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: thing about neo soul and what we really start hearing, 145 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: especially as we're turning into the new millennium, we start 146 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 2: hearing a lot of live instrumentation from these artists, and 147 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: not only that, but also collaboration. And it wasn't uncommon 148 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 2: to hear or see a Raphael sa dik in di'angelo collaborating, 149 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 2: or a er Kabaidu in Questlove in the studio. A 150 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 2: lot of times there was this communal feeling of soul 151 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 2: that they came together to create that really brought out 152 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 2: the heart of neo soul, and I think was evident 153 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 2: then and even years later now as we listen to 154 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 2: all of these records and listen to all of these artists, 155 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 2: that that sound is so evident. 156 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 3: And I know we'll get into this. 157 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: Later, but there are a lot of artists that are 158 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 2: sampling and trying to recreate those sounds. 159 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: Now, what do you feel like was happening in the 160 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: R and B and hip hop space that really gave 161 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: way to neo zil Oh? 162 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 2: Wow, we were seeing subgenres come out the woodward. Of course, 163 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 2: R and B itself had such a moment in the 164 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 2: nineties where you have these groups like Black and Boys 165 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 2: to Man, and you know, their sound was really the 166 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 2: sound of the decade. 167 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 3: When you turned on the radio. 168 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:44,359 Speaker 2: The crooners were really the ones who were winning the airways, 169 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 2: which was such a beautiful thing. But it couldn't be 170 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 2: just about not necessarily saying that these artists were super 171 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: one dimensional or anything. But it couldn't just be about 172 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 2: just sex or just love or just you know, it 173 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 2: had to take another step. It had to elevate in 174 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 2: a way. And so in a way, these neo soul 175 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 2: artists were the ones who came through and added a 176 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: bit more depth. They were the ones who really made 177 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 2: you think in the ones who created in song lyrics 178 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: that gave more of a heaviness and more of a 179 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: feel in humanity and was a bit more accessible to 180 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: everyday people. And they were very direct in who their 181 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: audience were, which was us, us as black people. I 182 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 2: think one thing that was really interesting to me specifically 183 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: when we talk about Erica writing Mama's Gun was she 184 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 2: had recently gone over to Motown for the album, and 185 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: Motown wanted R. Kelly and Babyface to help her write 186 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 2: this album, but Baidu declined, and she said that she 187 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 2: respected their music, but that's not the parallel that she 188 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: wanted to do, and she wanted to evolve, She wanted 189 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: to elevate, and she said that she trusts her fans 190 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 2: enough to evolve with her, and that was a big risk, 191 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 2: and that was such a big step, and I think 192 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: that was something that a lot of these neo. 193 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 3: So artists were doing. 194 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 2: They were walking to the beat of their own drum, 195 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 2: but still taking from what we know of that like eighties, nineties, 196 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 2: R and B in hip hop sound. 197 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: As you've been talking Teren talk about there were so 198 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: many men I think that were influential in the neils 199 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: So movement, right, But it does feel like because we're 200 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: talking about Jill Scott and Eric aboutdou but also I think, 201 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: Indi Iri, you've already mentioned Lauren Hill, like there were 202 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: a lot of women that were instrumental in neil So. 203 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: Can you talk about like the way that women and 204 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: women's presence really expanded what Neil. 205 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 2: Sol was was Oh my goodness, yes, absolutely Again, when 206 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 2: I think of who is Sheill Scott, when I think 207 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 2: of Mama's Gun, even albums that Macy Gray, Indi I 208 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: re Lauren Hill dropped, these were albums in which these 209 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 2: women are talking about love, sex, relationships, politics, identity in 210 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 2: ways that centered themselves. They were not the they were 211 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 2: not the side character in their own stories, which unfortunately 212 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 2: in a lot of R and B we have seen, 213 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: especially R and B of Yesteryear love those records down. 214 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 2: But these albums, these records felt like they had not 215 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 2: only an empowered voice, but also a very self aware 216 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 2: and self reflective voice. I even think about Green Eyes 217 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: by Erica Baidu, and that was a direct song that 218 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: she wrote in four parts in response to her breakup 219 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 2: with Andre three thousand. Of course, they had just had 220 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 2: their son seven as she was producing and creating this album, 221 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: And what was really interesting to me is the admittance 222 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 2: of like, yeah, I'm a little insecure here and I'm 223 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 2: going through it. I'm going through the cycles of heartbreak, 224 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: of breakup and of mourning this relationship, mourning what I 225 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 2: thought was going to be and seeing that Okay, I 226 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 2: need to move on, but I'm not sure exactly how 227 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 2: to do that. There's so much power in stating that 228 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: and singing that and really going in that direction. I 229 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 2: even think about one of my probably like toxic favorite 230 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 2: songs and I don't know if it's toxic, but Getting 231 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 2: in the Way by Jill Scott on who is Jill 232 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 2: Scott was such when I listened to it beforehand, which 233 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 2: is what I think is a beautiful thing about these retrospectives. 234 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 2: When I listened to it beforehand, it felt like she 235 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 2: was arguing about with this woman about like, hey, don't 236 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 2: mess with my man. When I listen to it now, 237 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 2: it doesn't feel like that. It feels more so, hey, girl, 238 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 2: I know that you have feelings for him and y'all 239 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: probably got something going on. And look, no disrespect to you, 240 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 2: but you're getting in the way of what I'm feeling. 241 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 2: She's not saying that, like, it's not the boy is mine, 242 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 2: it's you getting the way of what I'm feeling of 243 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: the love that I have for this man. And I'm 244 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 2: being honest with you and letting you know. And I 245 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 2: think that that honesty and that vulnerability and transparency is 246 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: what we see from these women. And they took the 247 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 2: genre touch such a different level that we see still 248 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: their actions, their decisions, their lyrics and songs stress are 249 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: still reverberating in music that we're listening to today. I mean, 250 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 2: these women are still on tour. Lauren Hill just wrapped 251 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 2: up a tour last year. Macy Gray, I feel like 252 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 2: she stays on tour, and of course Mama's Gun twenty 253 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 2: fifth anniversary tour as commenced last month, and it's just 254 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 2: so refreshing. It was so refreshing then as little tarn 255 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 2: seeing and hearing these women listening to the adults in 256 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 2: my life, because I was probably about like eight when 257 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 2: these albums came out. Listening to the adults in my 258 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 2: life embraced this music and looking up and saying, hey, 259 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 2: like this is what grown women listen to. 260 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 3: Like that is. 261 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 2: Really how I view these artists back then and today 262 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: as I navigate my own troubles and heal and find 263 00:18:54,800 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 2: solutions and reasons for why life lives. These albums, these 264 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 2: women's voices have become the solve that continues to provide, 265 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: if not answers, relief and help me feel se in 266 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 2: the moment. 267 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, I love that 268 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: you shared like where you were in the world, because 269 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: we're having a very it feels like intergenerational conversation because 270 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: I was in my senior year in college with the album, 271 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: so I was in a very different place, right, So 272 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: these elples very much feel like the soundtrack to my 273 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: young adulthood, right, like figuring out who I was as 274 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 1: a young woman. And I love that you're saying like, 275 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: even years later, like you're thinking about maybe your mom 276 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 1: and aunties listening to this music and still feeling like 277 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: you can connect with it now as a young woman yourself, 278 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: which I think is like just incredible that there is 279 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: music that exists across time that speaks to black womanhood 280 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: and black girlhood in ways that are so powerful. 281 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that so much. 282 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: So, you know, you've already talked about especially how when 283 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: Jill came on the scene, it very much felt like 284 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: she was a very different picture of what we were 285 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: seeing in terms of the video vixens, and you mentioned 286 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 1: kind of women being the object of affection but not 287 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: necessarily owning their own desire. Can you talk more about 288 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: how both of these albums really presented a different view 289 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: of black womanhood and kind of maybe expanded the ideas 290 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: about who black women were. 291 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 2: Oh wow, Yeah, absolutely, because both Who Is Your Scott 292 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 2: and Mama's Guns speak to similar things at the same 293 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 2: time in very different ways, like just different avenues, And 294 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 2: it's so interesting like listening to them and being able 295 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 2: to relate to both of them in very different ways. 296 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 2: So it what I love is how much they take 297 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 2: command of their own desires and their own desirability, and 298 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 2: they weren't afraid er Kubandu and Jill Scott were not 299 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 2: afraid to be that and to ask for that and 300 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 2: to command that and to say yes, I would like 301 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 2: that in very different ways. Okay, because Jill, one thing 302 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: that I feel like we all love about Jill is 303 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 2: how she looks at the simplicities of life, the simplicities 304 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 2: of nature, and how she's able to compare certain things 305 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 2: like honey molasses or like a block party in Philly 306 00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 2: or quarter waters or sense and it makes you feel full. 307 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 2: Jill has a way of helping you tap into your 308 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 2: sacral chakra as a woman and not being afraid to 309 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 2: lean into that. This is before the more recent movements 310 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 2: and activists who have come out and said, hey, women's 311 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,239 Speaker 2: sexual desires are a part of women's sexual health and 312 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 2: we need to talk about it. 313 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 3: They are not taboo. 314 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 2: And so that is such a beautiful thing to listen 315 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 2: to and to witness Sandwich in between these stories of 316 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 2: pain of love and to hear Jill seeing he loves 317 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 2: me and as a black woman like that will always 318 00:22:55,040 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 2: feel revolutionary. To hear a black woman claim that love 319 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 2: that their partner is bestowing upon them is so beautiful. 320 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 2: And then I think about Erka Baidu, where she's asking 321 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 2: for the same in a very different way on kiss 322 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 2: Me on My Neck, a song that she collaborated with 323 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: Jay Dilla for He was credited as jd on the 324 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 2: album which I think is a cute little like nugget, 325 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 2: because I don't know why he chose a certain name. 326 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 2: Maybe it was to like not distract, but I thought 327 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 2: that that was really cute. 328 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 3: But yeah, I. 329 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 2: Want you to kiss me on my neck, I want 330 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 2: you to breathe on my neck, and that subtlety in 331 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 2: a very different way, I think Erica sings about it 332 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 2: in a way that feels almost spiritual and then even 333 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 2: a different type of love. I think about AD two thousand, 334 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 2: in which she is singing from the perspective of a 335 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 2: Milo Diallo who was gunned down by police in the 336 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 2: most brutal way in two thousand and for this woman 337 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 2: to sing from this slain black man's perspective and say, 338 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 2: I don't want y'all to build no dilapidated buildings off 339 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 2: of my name and name them after me, because I 340 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 2: know that that is a passive, cosmetic solution quote unquote 341 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 2: to this greater injustice. And both of these albums talk 342 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,719 Speaker 2: about black women's love, and I think that that specific 343 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 2: act of her creating a D two thousand felt like 344 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 2: such a great metaphor for what we've seen black women 345 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 2: time and time again, and that show up in all 346 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 2: of the fights, especially the fight that is for the 347 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 2: sake in liberation and survival and love of our people. 348 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 2: And so I don't even know if I answer the question, 349 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: because I feel like I've gone in so many different directions. 350 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 2: But that's such a testament to the vastness of womanhood 351 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 2: that these two albums really speak to. 352 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it wasn't just one thing, right Like, I 353 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: love that there's the mix of a song about being 354 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: jealous and insecure after a breakup combined with an album 355 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: that has police brutality themes, right, Like, I think that 356 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 1: it is a representation of all the things that we 357 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: are thinking about in living and that real life testament 358 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: to what was going on for them at the time. 359 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: So I think in addition to the beautiful sounds and 360 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: the messages that we got from these albums, I also 361 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: think that we really saw a shift in the aesthetics 362 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: of a black womanhood after these albums. And you know, 363 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: I think kind of generally related to the Nioso movement, 364 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: like we saw, like you mentioned Bado with like the 365 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: head wraps and Jill really was embracing her natural hair, Like, 366 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: we saw a real shift into that. Can you talk 367 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: about how the Nioso move would really change what aesthetically 368 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: it looked like to be a black woman. 369 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 2: I don't think that I necessarily noticed too much beforehand 370 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 2: the women who were wearing the hair natural, but after 371 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 2: Jill Scott and Rikabadu and Macy Gray and all of 372 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 2: these women started to become more evident for me on 373 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 2: my screen as little girl watching BET, I do remember 374 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 2: noticing more so women embracing their natural hair, women wearing 375 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 2: clothes that were and related to Black Pride and the diaspora, 376 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 2: and the dangly earrings that weren't necessarily just the bamboos 377 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 2: and the door knockers, but also you know, ones that 378 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 2: were like wooden of afro picks. And it did feel 379 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 2: like there was a building upon of the Black Pride 380 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 2: movement of the sixties and seventies within this era of neo. 381 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 2: So I even think about during the Mama's Gun promotion 382 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 2: into it, and I don't even necessarily think this was 383 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 2: for promotion, because I think a lot of artists do 384 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 2: a lot of stunts for promotion these days, but more 385 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 2: so just because she wanted to everybody new cut her 386 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: hair off because she wanted to a change and she 387 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 2: wanted to embrace her bald head, and at one of 388 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 2: the stops for Mama's Gun Tour, she revealed her bald 389 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: head from underneath her signature rap and the crowd went wild. 390 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 2: And I think that is something that like that points 391 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 2: to how much our views of what is beauty, what 392 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 2: is black beauty, how we embrace ourselves and dress our 393 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 2: bodies and adorn things that speak to our own pride, 394 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 2: in our own how we self identify within this again 395 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 2: corridor of the early odds, where, like you said, Video 396 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 2: Vixen's were, you know, at the helm of what we 397 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 2: used to see as beauty and how we define it. 398 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 2: I think that like that is so powerful to just 399 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 2: randomly shave your head off, for people like India Iri 400 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 2: to come out and say I am not my hair 401 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 2: and make these bald declarations that again broke black women 402 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 2: out of the traditional bolt that we have been seen. 403 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: In Darren, did you get a chance to watch the 404 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: verses with Jill Scott and Erica? 405 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 2: If I do, yes, I is. 406 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: So, you know, as you're talking, I'm thinking about that 407 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: because I think even it feels like an interesting juxtaposition. 408 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: While Jill and Erica are making all this music around 409 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: like self identity and kind of affirming themselves and healing 410 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: and what it feels like to be in love. They 411 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: talked about on the verses how there was still kind 412 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: of this competition that the industry was trying to set up, 413 00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: right like that there couldn't be a Jill and an 414 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: Erica at the same time. And on the verses, I 415 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: remember Erica saying, I kind of opened the doors for Jill, 416 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: right Like, I think there was some appearance that they 417 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: wanted Erica to do. She wasn't available, and so she 418 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: suggested Jill. And that is how Jill, I think even 419 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: got that Jilsot moment. And so you know, I'm thinking 420 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: about that as you're talking that even as they are 421 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: trying to make these like affirming messages, the industry is 422 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: still trying to pit them against one another. And it 423 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: very much feels like the women of the Nio soul 424 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: movement had this kind of sisterhood like collaboration kind of 425 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: effort that was against it flew in the face of 426 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: what the industry wanted at the time. 427 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And when you think about Neil Saul 428 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 2: and the message of it and the drivers behind it, 429 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 2: it is in opposition of mainstream music industries rules. 430 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 3: Right. 431 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people, especially today, probably think 432 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 2: of Neo Saul as being old score or whatever, but really. 433 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 3: It's afro futurism. 434 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 2: It's experimental, it's eclectic, it's so many things, and unfortunately 435 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 2: competition is not one of them. Because Neo saw this community, 436 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 2: because that's the message behind it. And I love that 437 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 2: you mentioned that because even as these two albums Who 438 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 2: Is Jill Scott and Mama's Gun came out in the 439 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 2: same year, the criticism between the two, like the critics 440 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 2: absolutely tried to pick these albums against each other. Again 441 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 2: Jill's debut and it was beloved and rightfully so. Mama's 442 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 2: Gun was not only being compared to Who Is Jill Scott, 443 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 2: but it was also being compared to Boduism, which came 444 00:31:54,520 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 2: out in ninety seven, and critics were using mam Gun 445 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 2: as a way to not only pit pit those two together, 446 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 2: but again pit Rikabadu against Ericabaandu and er Kabahdu did 447 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 2: not let them. Ericabadu said, okay, absolutely not. Not only 448 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 2: am I going to celebrate Jill Scott and celebrate India, 449 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 2: I read and celebrate Macy Gray and celebrate all of 450 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 2: these other artists who have come out, But I'm also 451 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 2: not going to let y'all get into my head with 452 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 2: these numbers. Yes, I might have expected a a bigger 453 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 2: portion of the sales to come out and to surpass 454 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 2: by duism, but at the end of the day, I 455 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 2: got out everything that I needed to for my own healing, 456 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 2: for my own artistry. And when I go on tour, 457 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 2: I see how my fans are receiving this, and I 458 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 2: see that I feel lighter because I was able to 459 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 2: respect my own artistry. And so I think you know 460 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,719 Speaker 2: that community, that self empowerment is crucial, and that is 461 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 2: why erk Abadu is who she is today, because she 462 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 2: allowed herself to experiment and to be open and collaborative 463 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 2: and accepting a warm So. 464 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: I want to stay with this message of healing because 465 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: you know, now we hear more artists are more and 466 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: much more open about like mental health and like the 467 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: struggles that they're experiencing. I think this was before that time, right, 468 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: like nobody was necessarily talking about therapy and all of 469 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: those things. But I do think, as you've alluded to, 470 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: there's some real messages of healing and affirmation that we 471 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,719 Speaker 1: can find in both of these albums. Can you highlight 472 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: maybe a few of those healing and affirmation themes from 473 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: each of those albums? 474 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 2: Oh? Wow? 475 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely. 476 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 2: I'll start with Who Is Jill Scott because I think 477 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 2: that the overarching theme here feels like to me, love 478 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 2: and be loved the Jill Trow the first track on 479 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 2: the album, She is introducing herself with who and what 480 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 2: she loves. She loves herself, she loves poetry, she loves 481 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 2: her city, she loves music, and we get to experience 482 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 2: her through this. We get to experience what it looks 483 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 2: like to love in these very simple moments. But we 484 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:58,720 Speaker 2: also get to experience and hear what it means to slowly, 485 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 2: surely walk away from love that. 486 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 3: Is not serving you anymore, and. 487 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 2: How fluid love is and can be when we have 488 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 2: a good and healthy relationship with ourselves and don't allow 489 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 2: ourselves to be boxed in or manipulated by societal pressures, 490 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 2: which I think is such a huge thing for how 491 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 2: we can view dating, relationships, love, etc. In today's social 492 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 2: media dominant conversations. And then for Mama's Gun. I love 493 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 2: that Mama's Gun feels like a double Chandra, right, she 494 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 2: had just had her first son seven and within this 495 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 2: conversation that she talks about again love, identity, empowerment, politics, 496 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 2: she is equipping herself so that she can protect her son, 497 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 2: the future generation. And by protecting herself spiritually, emotionally, physically, 498 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 2: she's able to carry on the future generation to greater pastures, 499 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 2: so in higher levels that maybe she wasn't able to reach, 500 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 2: maybe she hasn't reached yet. And while also honoring the ancestors, 501 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 2: honoring herself and honoring the future, in honoring those feelings 502 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 2: that don't always feel the best, she is able to 503 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 2: show us a truth that is really why this album, 504 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 2: even in Jill Scott's case, Who Is Jill Scott? That 505 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 2: is why these two albums are able to stand the 506 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,840 Speaker 2: test of time because they were born of. 507 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 3: Radical honesty that we. 508 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 2: Needed to hear and that we still need to hear. 509 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: So, you know, Taron Edgier, you just talked about, especially 510 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 1: for Who Is Jill Scott, like some of these conversations 511 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: and how they are different from the things we might 512 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: see on social media. And I'm also thinking. 513 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 2: About what it would be like for these. 514 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: Albums to come out today, right and thinking like what 515 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: they have even felt empowered to be as transparent and 516 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: vulnerable as they were given. You know how people would 517 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: react maybe online, like what are your thoughts around could 518 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: we get who is Jill Scott or Mama's Gun today? 519 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 2: I want to be so optimistic, doctor Joy, I want 520 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 2: to be so optimistic, but I don't know. I don't 521 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 2: think so, especially when we consider where the music industry 522 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 2: is going in how numbers dominate, their numbers driven things 523 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:24,760 Speaker 2: have become. Unfortunately, we're getting albums that are so rich 524 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 2: in the messages they tell and even the talent that 525 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 2: newer neo soul artists spring, but unfortunately, I don't think 526 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 2: they are rising to meet the expectations of music execs, 527 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 2: unfortunately because they don't have the TikTok numbers, or because 528 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:52,479 Speaker 2: they may not appeal quote unquote to what they think 529 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 2: audiences want aesthetically or sonically. Like I think about Ari 530 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 2: Lenux and her so much, like I think that she 531 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 2: is one of the most amazing newer neo soul artists 532 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 2: that we have today. And Shay butter Baby was so amazing, 533 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,160 Speaker 2: it was such a great album, but the deal that 534 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 2: she was in with Dreamville was not serving her artistry 535 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 2: in the way that I think that she needed and 536 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 2: wanted it to and fortunately she just got out of 537 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 2: that and so hopefully she'll be able to create more 538 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 2: of the music that is of her heart and what 539 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:39,720 Speaker 2: she really wants because she's aligned with Solange now. But again, 540 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 2: we're still hearing a lot of the influence and a 541 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 2: lot of the inspiration via artist like Anderson Pop. Even 542 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 2: Beyonce has sampled and interpolated songs from both of these albums. 543 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 2: But unfortunately, I don't know, oh if the industry as 544 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:08,479 Speaker 2: a business really appreciates what these albums would be able 545 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 2: to do if they were released today. M hm. 546 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: So you mentioned Aria Lennox, and she is definitely somebody 547 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: I think about when I think about like the legacy 548 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: of Erica Vado and Jill Scott. Who are some other 549 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: artists that you think about when you think about like 550 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: people continuing to walk in these footsteps? 551 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness. I don't know if you've heard of 552 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 2: Ray Khalil. She is an amazing up and coming artist. 553 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 2: She's currently actually on tour with Anderson Park and she 554 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 2: sings in raps and feels so Erica Vay do code, 555 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 2: It's so beautiful and refreshing to see, I believe she's 556 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 2: a queer woman as well, and to hear her sing 557 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 2: about so many of these themes that we've mentioned on 558 00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 2: both of these albums from her perspect as a black 559 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 2: queer woman is so refreshing and something that I think 560 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 2: we need more of and we need to hear more of, 561 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 2: and I really want her to. 562 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,360 Speaker 3: Win so badly. 563 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 2: I think she skews a little bit more pop but 564 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 2: her and I say she scus a little bit more 565 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 2: pop right now because I think she's being pushed in 566 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 2: that direction a bit more as we've unfortunately been seen 567 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 2: with a lot of neo soul artists. 568 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 3: But her debut album. 569 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:40,319 Speaker 2: Was amazing and it felt like it spoke to so 570 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 2: many of these so many of these things that we 571 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 2: were talking about in a more airy. 572 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 3: Way than an earthy way. 573 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,239 Speaker 2: And I think the different levels of neo so where 574 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 2: we're seeing more artists play with which is really amazing. 575 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,359 Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. 576 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,319 Speaker 3: Who are you listening to? Doctor Joy? 577 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: So you know, as you were talking, I was thinking 578 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: about alex Issley, but I feel like, I mean, she's 579 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,840 Speaker 1: an Eisley, so I feel like She is a very 580 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,839 Speaker 1: like pure r and b like crooner to me, but 581 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,840 Speaker 1: it feels like she could kind of maybe play in 582 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 1: this neo soul kind of space. 583 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,720 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and I think, like I think that's also 584 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 2: like the beautiful thing of it, especially today, is we 585 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 2: are seeing more artists kind of genre blend and bend 586 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 2: and play in different directions and maybe they're stronger in 587 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 2: or you like one portion of their sound more than others, 588 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 2: And which is okay because we can pick and choose, 589 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 2: and that's the beauty of streaming. It has a lot 590 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,359 Speaker 2: of it has a lot of pitfalls. 591 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 3: At least we have the power of choice. 592 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,720 Speaker 1: So, Terran, as we wrap up, you know, I definitely 593 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: want to get some kind of quick ideas from you 594 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: about you know, for people who maybe are just now 595 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 1: being introduced to Mama's Gun and who is Jill Scott? 596 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: Where would you suggest they start on each of these albums. 597 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 2: From the top, But I definitely start from the top. 598 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 2: But if I okay, okay, I'm gonna start with who 599 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 2: is Jill Scott? And I would say my favorite. I'm 600 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 2: gonna give them my favorite of what moves me? 601 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,240 Speaker 3: Doctor Joy. This is hard. 602 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 2: I'm gonna again say slowly surely for who is Jill Scott, 603 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:08,279 Speaker 2: because I think that it's such and affirming and just 604 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 2: sure self assured, for lack of a better term way 605 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 2: to say, I'm not doing this. And I don't think 606 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:23,480 Speaker 2: that that has to be exclusive to romantic relationships. I 607 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 2: think that that can be for friendships. I think that 608 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 2: could be for relationships with job or whatever your work is, 609 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:37,200 Speaker 2: or you know, it's such an amazing song because it 610 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 2: draws a boundary in the sand and in such a 611 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 2: definitive way that I have to like, I have to 612 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 2: give that to anyone, especially the younger kids, because I 613 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,800 Speaker 2: know they like shorter songs, and it's a shorter song, 614 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,320 Speaker 2: so I'm like, I'm gonna respect your attention. Spans start there, 615 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 2: and then for Mama's gun, Oh my god, Orange Moon, 616 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 2: Orange Moon, I have to say Orange Moon. 617 00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 3: It's so beautiful. 618 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 2: I feel like it makes me cry a lot, because 619 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,320 Speaker 2: you could take it several ways of her talking about 620 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,920 Speaker 2: like love with her partner, but also it could be 621 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,360 Speaker 2: love with herself. And you know how she shines brighter 622 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 2: when she sees herself because the sun is herself or 623 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:38,759 Speaker 2: the mirror, and relationships are mirrors. Anyway for ourselves, but 624 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:44,520 Speaker 2: like to hear love from the perspective of how it 625 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,840 Speaker 2: makes you better and how it makes you see yourself 626 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 2: better and in a different light. It's so beautiful to me. 627 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 3: So I think that, like both. 628 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:59,080 Speaker 2: Of these tracks could of course relate to so many things, 629 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:05,520 Speaker 2: but I think the again self censoredness of it all, 630 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,600 Speaker 2: which so many of us black women need more of, 631 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,320 Speaker 2: is a one. 632 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 1: I love those and I love that my answers are 633 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,240 Speaker 1: very different, but not that different, right, So for Mama's Gun, 634 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: I would have to choose bag Lady, right, like I 635 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,480 Speaker 1: feel like that was the Crans in the Sky before 636 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,000 Speaker 1: we got Creans in the Sky, right, like the very 637 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,920 Speaker 1: first song that was really talking I think about boundaries 638 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: without calling them that, right, and thinking about to how 639 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 1: we can be more self centered and how to pay 640 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: attention to what we're carrying. 641 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 3: So would have to be that. 642 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: And then for who Is Your Scott, I think it 643 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,440 Speaker 1: would be the Way because that probably. 644 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,040 Speaker 3: Is one of the most beautiful songs. 645 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 1: Still ever to have been created. 646 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:47,800 Speaker 3: So I just loved that song. 647 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,560 Speaker 2: I love that I wanted to give some deep cuts 648 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,440 Speaker 2: for the people because I'm like to listen to the 649 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 2: other I know how y'all like to avoid deep cuts. 650 00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 2: So I'm like, but I loved, I love that you 651 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 2: gave those because I'm like, yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Yeah. 652 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 1: So when you think about like the next twenty five 653 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,560 Speaker 1: years of R and B and neal, So, what do 654 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,200 Speaker 1: you think we have to look forward to, especially as 655 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,359 Speaker 1: we think about the foundation that has been laid by 656 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,000 Speaker 1: these women and many others. 657 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 2: Who I really especially now because we know that industry 658 00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:28,319 Speaker 2: budgets are shrinking, and with that we are seeing and 659 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,640 Speaker 2: I think we're going to hear so many more self starters, 660 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,960 Speaker 2: so many more people putting their music out there. I mean, 661 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 2: we already had so much of that in our continue 662 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,800 Speaker 2: to have so much of that with SoundCloud, YouTube, TikTok, 663 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 2: just different platforms where we can find newer artists. And 664 00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,720 Speaker 2: I think a lot of these artists, these newer artists 665 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 2: are walking in the steps of neo soul. And what's 666 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,680 Speaker 2: interesting is what I've been seeing is that like it 667 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 2: doesn't matter, like whether you're black or not, Like neo 668 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:11,480 Speaker 2: soul is inspiring so many different people of different races 669 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:16,840 Speaker 2: in backgrounds, and that just speaks to the value and 670 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,160 Speaker 2: longevity of black music, of the music and the culture 671 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:22,120 Speaker 2: that we make. 672 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 3: And I think that's. 673 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 2: Something that we're going to continue to see. 674 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:26,839 Speaker 3: I think we're going to continue to. 675 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:32,439 Speaker 2: See artists pay homage to these albums and sample these 676 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:37,919 Speaker 2: albums and tap these artists for their songs. I think 677 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:42,920 Speaker 2: about er Kabadou, she stays on a younger artist album, 678 00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,400 Speaker 2: she has a really great song, a couple of great 679 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,120 Speaker 2: songs with dram and I think that we're going to 680 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:53,120 Speaker 2: see more of that, more of the younger generations tapping 681 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:58,800 Speaker 2: directly into these artists to not only sample, but also 682 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,600 Speaker 2: lend their voices and ears to them. But yeah, I 683 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,840 Speaker 2: think that in twenty five years, we are going to 684 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 2: be having the same conversation about Solange's albums and about 685 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:17,719 Speaker 2: ari linux albums, and so many of these artists who 686 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,840 Speaker 2: they're well established of course, that are of younger generations 687 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,880 Speaker 2: who are slowly but surely getting their flowers from us. 688 00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,400 Speaker 1: This has been so much fun to chat with you 689 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,560 Speaker 1: about this here and I love the things that you 690 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: shared about these albums. Can you please remind us where 691 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,880 Speaker 1: can we stay connected with you? What is your website, 692 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,520 Speaker 1: your subseac and your social media handles? 693 00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:45,120 Speaker 2: Absolutely, thank you so much. This has been so fun, 694 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:49,600 Speaker 2: Doctor Joy. Y'all can find me at Underscore tearing it 695 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:56,640 Speaker 2: Up on TikTok Instagram and that other website that that 696 00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:01,759 Speaker 2: man has taken over that probably will be deactivating. So 697 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,359 Speaker 2: and you also can find me on substack at let's 698 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:12,160 Speaker 2: Stay Connected dot substack dot com or on Terrenfinlay dot com. 699 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,880 Speaker 3: And yeah, thank you so much, Doctor Joy. Once again, 700 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 3: thank you, Darren. 701 00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,360 Speaker 1: I'm so glad Taran was able to join me for 702 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,880 Speaker 1: this conversation to celebrate the timeless artistry of Eric Abadu 703 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 1: and Jill Scott and to remind us of how their 704 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,480 Speaker 1: music continues to hold space for black women's softness, sensuality, 705 00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,120 Speaker 1: and evolution. To learn more about Arran and her work, 706 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,120 Speaker 1: visit the show notes at Therapyfro Blackgirls dot com SLAS 707 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,080 Speaker 1: Session four thirty three, and don't forget to text this 708 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,319 Speaker 1: episode or two of your girls right now and tell 709 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,319 Speaker 1: them to check out the episode. Did you know that 710 00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,400 Speaker 1: you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or 711 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,880 Speaker 1: suggestions for the podcast. If you have movies or books 712 00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,280 Speaker 1: you'd like us to review, or have thoughts about topics 713 00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,880 Speaker 1: you'd like to hear us discuss, drop us a message 714 00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,719 Speaker 1: at Memo dot FM's slash Therapy for Black Girls and 715 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,080 Speaker 1: let us know what's on your mind. We might just 716 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a 717 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,440 Speaker 1: therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy 718 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:14,520 Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. Don't forget to follow 719 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,520 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls and come 720 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:19,799 Speaker 1: on over and join us in our Patreon For more 721 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,279 Speaker 1: exclusive updates and behind the scenes content. You can join 722 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,080 Speaker 1: us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This 723 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:31,319 Speaker 1: episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Indaetubu and Tyree Rush. 724 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,960 Speaker 1: Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much 725 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,360 Speaker 1: for joining me again this week. I look forward to 726 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,080 Speaker 1: continuing this conversation with you all real soon. 727 00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:41,399 Speaker 3: Take good care.