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Speaker 1: The volume all right, once a year. Because I don't

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Speaker 1: like to pester people I work with, I bring on

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite people, Michael Mulhill. So you know

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Speaker 1: you're insightful when you're the president of Insight and Analytics

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Speaker 1: at Fox Sports. Who doesn't want to be insightful. So

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Speaker 1: Michael knows I'm a bit of a junkie for this stuff,

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Speaker 1: and he's always been really open and he just knows

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Speaker 1: I could sit and talk about this all day. So

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Speaker 1: it's very wonky, but I always get tremendous feedback. Michael,

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Speaker 1: and I want to start with something that's kind of

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Speaker 1: fascinating to me, and I don't know the answer on

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Speaker 1: ninety percent of these questions. So we have added at

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Speaker 1: Fox the Cubs Dodgers opening series in Tokyo, obviously driven

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Speaker 1: by two things Sho Hee o Tani and the remarkable

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Speaker 1: success of those brains. Those are big baseball brands. Throw

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Speaker 1: the Yankees in. They're probably the three biggest brands. But

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Speaker 1: it's interesting when I see that, I wonder how Fox

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Speaker 1: management thinks. Does Fox look at it and say, listen,

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Speaker 1: we're not gonna make money on this. I mean to

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Speaker 1: do a remote expensive to go to Tokyo's all diffootball game.

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Speaker 1: But it kicks off our baseball season, which we had

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Speaker 1: such a just a remarkable national legue, playoffs in the

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Speaker 1: World Series. I mean it just baseball. Probably the best

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Speaker 1: baseball ratings in a decade in terms of outside of

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Speaker 1: the CUB season overall performance. So is this something that

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Speaker 1: a company looks at and says, hey, listen, great momentum,

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Speaker 1: let's keep it going, biggest brands, We're going to lose

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Speaker 1: some money on this, it's just good for the business.

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Speaker 1: Or can you go into a series and it can

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Speaker 1: be viable? And I'm just I'm this is again so

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Speaker 1: wonky in this probably private information, but give me the

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Speaker 1: most honest answer you can.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's a good place to start. First of all,

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Speaker 2: thanks for having me. I always enjoy these conversations. I

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Speaker 2: love coming on the pod. It can be a little wonky,

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Speaker 2: but we're going to try to make it as interesting

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Speaker 2: as we can for a technical listenership. Look, this is

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Speaker 2: our thirtieth season with Major League Baseball, and I think

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Speaker 2: that they are a cornerstone of the Fox Sports brand.

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Speaker 2: They're a cornerstone of the Fox network and we value

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Speaker 2: that relationship tremendously, and we want to look for ways

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Speaker 2: to be creative partners, be innovative partners, and over a

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Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty two game regular season, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think that means looking for novel, exciting different locations

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Speaker 2: to have a game. And over the last couple of

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Speaker 2: seasons that has meant Field of Dreams. It's meant rick

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Speaker 2: Woodfield in Birmingham, Alabama, a great tribute either the Negro

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Speaker 2: leagues last year. This year it's going to mean Bristol

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Speaker 2: Motor Speedway. We'll do a baseball game within the interior

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Speaker 2: of a NASCAR racetrack. It has meant London, and now

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Speaker 2: this year for us, it's going to mean Tokyo. And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, we can make a dollar on those two games.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a great way to start the season.

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Speaker 2: It's a great way to bring some excitement and novelty

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Speaker 2: to what is a very long regular season. I think

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Speaker 2: not just we at Fox, but everybody in the Commissioner's

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Speaker 2: office is looking for ways all the time to develop

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Speaker 2: tent polls and develop sort of interesting events for the

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Speaker 2: regular season. This is a great way to start it,

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Speaker 2: and we want to send that message that it's an

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Speaker 2: important season for US. It's a milestone season. This is

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Speaker 2: an incredibly important partner. We value the relationship enormously and

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Speaker 2: we want to start the season in kind of a fun,

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Speaker 2: exciting novelty and particularly acknowledge the intense popularity of the

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Speaker 2: game in Japan, Like clearly we're sending the right team there,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's going to be a great way

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Speaker 2: to start out the season.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and I've said this, I've always been

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Speaker 1: seen sort of as a football guy. If you ask,

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Speaker 1: you know, the average person what's calling like, he'd be

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Speaker 1: college football, NFL. That doesn't mean I don't like the

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Speaker 1: World Cup. I go to UFC fights. I'm an NBA fan.

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Speaker 1: I grew up with it. Love you know. I like

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Speaker 1: March madness. I think sometimes outside of the NFL sports

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Speaker 1: is cyclical. Boxing used to be bigger. UFC squashed it.

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Speaker 1: Horse racing was bigger, They had controversies. NBA was bigger.

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Speaker 1: Now it's more international, not really a face of the

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Speaker 1: league Baseball and when the kind of regional networks were

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Speaker 1: sold at Fox, they don't have the same gravitas, they

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Speaker 1: don't have the same economic pull and what it's created

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Speaker 1: through no fault of anybody is the haves and the

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Speaker 1: have nots. There's a bigger gap there. Well, that's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily bad for a television network because the best teams

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Speaker 1: are Atlanta, Los Angeles, Houston, the two New York teams.

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Speaker 1: The cub has made a huge pick up with Kyle Tucker.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting. I don't know the health of the sport,

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Speaker 1: you know, you and I that's not our concern. But

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Speaker 1: there is a moment now where it does it not

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Speaker 1: feel like baseball? Through through Otani driving up the I five,

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Speaker 1: Soto actually leaving the Yankees going to the Mets, which

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Speaker 1: makes them a villain to half of New York, does

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Speaker 1: it not feel like baseball? Is probably the healthiest it's

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Speaker 1: been from a television product since the Cubs year.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think the structure of Major League Baseball is

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Speaker 2: fascinating because there is a gap between the haves and

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Speaker 2: the have nots, and that always has been. You know,

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Speaker 2: I think you could go back through fifty sixty seventy

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Speaker 2: years of baseball history and it's always been that the

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Speaker 2: New York teams are the highest revenue teams. That used

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Speaker 2: to be based on gate revenue. Then it became based

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Speaker 2: on regional sports network revenue. But it's always been true

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Speaker 2: that in baseball, brands make stars, right, And you could

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Speaker 2: sort of contrast that to the NBA, where I would

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Speaker 2: say in the NBA, stars make brands. Like a player

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Speaker 2: like Steph Curry can go to the Warriors and take

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Speaker 2: a franchise that was always sort of an afterthought in

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Speaker 2: that league and turn them into the most valuable franchise

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Speaker 2: in that league. That's Lebron going to Cleveland, it's Curry

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Speaker 2: going to the Warriors. That's a pretty well established dynamic

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Speaker 2: in basketball, whereas in baseball it's really hard to become

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Speaker 2: a national star unless you're playing for one of the

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Speaker 2: big brands, right. I mean that's true going back to

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Speaker 2: Roberto Clemente.

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Speaker 1: And like I said for years, if Derek Jeter was

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Speaker 1: the Kansas City Royal, he would have been a hell

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Speaker 1: of a player. But most of his dramatic moments were

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Speaker 1: in October and frankly against the Red Sox or in October.

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Speaker 1: And I think this is a great point. There is

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Speaker 1: a distinction between the NBA and baseball, and it's brand first,

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Speaker 1: and that's a Rod and Otani seem like complete outliers

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Speaker 1: to me big enough. Now, now Otani is a bigger

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Speaker 1: star with the Dodgers, but he was still Babe Ruth

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Speaker 1: esque fascinating. But you consider that stuff right when as Fox,

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Speaker 1: you consider how the player makes the brand, when you

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Speaker 1: schedule games based on player movement.

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Speaker 2: We absolutely do. And I think the dynamic that's been

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Speaker 2: set up in baseball is that there's certainly there's a

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Speaker 2: correlation between payroll and regular season wins. And so when

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Speaker 2: you have this divide between the haves and the have nots,

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Speaker 2: it favors the big brands. The big brands are more

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Speaker 2: capable of developing superstars and national household names. And we're

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Speaker 2: probably headed to another season where the Dodgers, the Yankees,

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Speaker 2: the Phillies, the Braves, the Mets are going to be

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Speaker 2: ninety plus win teams and all going to get into

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Speaker 2: the postseason. And so in the regular season you have

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Speaker 2: that advantage that were the benefit of CRUs to the

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Speaker 2: bigger markets and the bigger payroll teams. And yet the

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Speaker 2: postseason acts as a little bit of a leveler and

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Speaker 2: an equalizer where Baseball has created this format in which yes,

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Speaker 2: those big payroll, big market teams get in, but they

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Speaker 2: also get in alongside Arizona, alongside Cleveland. A team can

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Speaker 2: get into the tournament and get hot and get to

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Speaker 2: the World Series. So you've got a little bit of

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Speaker 2: an imbalance in the regular season that we do try

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Speaker 2: to take advantage of. But then that equalizes a little

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Speaker 2: bit in the postseason and you can end up with

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Speaker 2: the World Series that is Dodgers Yankees, or you can

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Speaker 2: end up with the World Series that we had two

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Speaker 2: years ago, which was Diamondbacks Rangers. When the World Series

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Speaker 2: is Diamondbacks Rangers, that's obviously not optimal for our ratings

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Speaker 2: in the short term, but I think it creates a

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Speaker 2: perception of competitive backs balance and a belief across all

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Speaker 2: the fan bases that they do have a chance to

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Speaker 2: get journaman and maybe get to the World Series, even

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Speaker 2: if their payroll is one hundred million dollars less than

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Speaker 2: a Dodger payroll or a Yankee payroll. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's a quality that's unique to baseball.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the things, and not like I'm

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Speaker 1: giving away any secret sauce, but I watch our management team,

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Speaker 1: and I've said before, the place I used to work

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Speaker 1: was a massive hotel chain. Fox is smaller, although certainly

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Speaker 1: not boutique chain we have. It's easier for me to

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Speaker 1: communicate with management at Fox simply because you're right upstairs.

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like we're swimming in a sea of games.

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Speaker 1: I think we're very intentional with our league contracts. And

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Speaker 1: I'll give you an example. I think, and this is again,

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Speaker 1: this is not a revelation that we're becoming more of

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Speaker 1: an event society. Due to the social platforms, we're a

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Speaker 1: distracted society. It's more frenetic TikTok. It's harder to get

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Speaker 1: people's attention. But I look at Fox and we have

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Speaker 1: the World Cup an event, ANFL event, college football event,

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Speaker 1: indie racing an event. This is really smart to me,

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Speaker 1: This is really smart programming. I think Death Valley is

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Speaker 1: Monday through Friday league programming hockey, NBA, to some degree

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Speaker 1: Baseball as well, that it's very difficult to grab the

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Speaker 1: attention in non event times. We are becoming. Olympics still

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Speaker 1: rates World Cup clearly, Dana White, Saturday Night Fight Cards

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Speaker 1: still rate that. It looks like it has been very

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Speaker 1: intentional by Fox, that you've been about you've been ahead

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Speaker 1: of this, that you are thinking about how the culturally

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Speaker 1: we become more an event society. Now, is this coincidence

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Speaker 1: or is this stuff you and Shanks and all the

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Speaker 1: big wigs talk about.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's not coincidence, and we're certainly not the only

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Speaker 2: ones that are doing it. I mean, I agree. I

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Speaker 2: think the sports business is becoming more reliant and more

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Speaker 2: driven by the tent pole events. I think that your

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Speaker 2: brand tends to be defined by your very best. Right,

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Speaker 2: there are eighty seven hundred and sixty hours in a year.

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Speaker 2: We have to think about how to fill eighty seven

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Speaker 2: hundred and sixty hours of cable programming. We have to

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Speaker 2: think about how to fill several hundred hours of broadcast programming.

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Speaker 2: But we're not really defined by the eight thousand hours.

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Speaker 2: We're defined by the Super Bowl, and we're defined by

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Speaker 2: Freddie Freeman hitting a Grand Slam in Game one of

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Speaker 2: the World Series and the World Cup Final, the moments

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Speaker 2: that are really resonant and memorable, and that's what we're

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Speaker 2: selling to our advertisers. That's also what we're selling to

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Speaker 2: our audience, that we are a place that you can

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Speaker 2: come and share an experience with somebody that's important to you.

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Speaker 2: And we talk a lot about the social connectivity of

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Speaker 2: sports and how that sort of underlies our entire business.

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Speaker 2: But we want to be a place where you can

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Speaker 2: come and share an experience and maybe have a memory

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Speaker 2: with somebody that matters to you that you have for

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Speaker 2: the rest of your life. And to have that, you

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Speaker 2: really do have to be focused on the big events,

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Speaker 2: the Super Bowls, the World Series, the things that might

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Speaker 2: create a lifetime memory. And now that for us, that

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Speaker 2: also means the Indy five hundred. You know, we want

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Speaker 2: to continue to look at ways to develop events that

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Speaker 2: could potentially create a once in a lifetime memory for somebody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean Fox has always had I mean

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Speaker 1: FS one was the speed channel, if I recall, I

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Speaker 1: mean FS one. Fox has always had auto racing as

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Speaker 1: part of their brand from a long time ago. So

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Speaker 1: it was a natural fit. You know. Obviously, I joke

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Speaker 1: with my wife all the time, I'm in radio and

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Speaker 1: cable TV. Your husband's careers are going the wrong way, honey.

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Speaker 1: We may want to move into a fixer upper in

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Speaker 1: a smaller neighborhood, but there are ways to stem losses

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Speaker 1: and relationships. We have a streaming venture coming up. Relationships

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Speaker 1: with YouTube. Fox News is obviously a juggernaut in an

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Speaker 1: industry that is regressing. But The New York Times still

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Speaker 1: makes money in newspapers, and Delta and Southwest Airlines in

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Speaker 1: that in the aviation field, which has been under great

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Speaker 1: financial duress many times in my life, they're still industry leaders.

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Speaker 1: You can make money in industries that shrink. How do

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Speaker 1: we view cable now? I mean, I've said this to you.

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Speaker 1: I'm sixty, Michael. I can't give cable up because I

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Speaker 1: like college football and I'm not giving it up. And

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Speaker 1: it's and by the way, I also like news and politics,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not giving it up. I mean it's like,

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Speaker 1: I like streaming, but if I want to watch you know,

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Speaker 1: political stuff live CNBC, Fox Business Channel, that's that's. As

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Speaker 1: I get older, I kind of watch news, sports and

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Speaker 1: politics more. How do you view cable? How viable is it?

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Speaker 1: Is it a five year runway, eight, ten or three?

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Speaker 2: Well, that last part of the question is really interesting,

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Speaker 2: right because I think you and I, unfortunately are both

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Speaker 2: getting to the age where you know, we can think

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Speaker 2: in terms of the rest of our careers, and that

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Speaker 2: might only be a ten fifteen year horizon, right. So

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Speaker 2: when I think in terms of the number of years

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Speaker 2: that I expect to continue to be doing this. I

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Speaker 2: think I think cable is going to continue to be

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Speaker 2: certainly viable, very profitable. It's funny we we have a

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Speaker 2: lot of conversations in this business about cable as a

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Speaker 2: declining part of the business. Sometime it's put in even

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Speaker 2: more negative terms than declining, and yet when companies like

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Speaker 2: ours come out with their quarterly earnings, you often find

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Speaker 2: that it's still the cable networks that are driving a

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Speaker 2: huge percentage of the earnings. Right Like WBD owner Brothers Discovery,

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Speaker 2: they just had their most recent earnings call, and on

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Speaker 2: that call, it was all the traditional linear cable networks

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Speaker 2: that are driving billions and billions of dollars in earnings

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Speaker 2: for a company that is still varies significantly in debt

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Speaker 2: and trying to climb out of that debt, and their

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Speaker 2: cable earnings are a powerful engine to try to get

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Speaker 2: them out of that situation. So the earnings on the

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Speaker 2: cable side are still extremely significant. It may not be

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Speaker 2: a growing part of the business, but it's still a

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Speaker 2: very profitable part of the business. I do think there's

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Speaker 2: been in the sports world a little bit of a

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Speaker 2: movement toward taking some of the best events from cable

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Speaker 2: and putting them back on the podcast where you potentially

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Speaker 2: have more reach. And I think there's something special about

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Speaker 2: being on broadcast. But the idea that cable is going

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Speaker 2: to disappear, cease to exist, stop being profitable, I think

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Speaker 2: that's a long way away. You know, you still have

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Speaker 2: tens of millions of people who are comfortable with the

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Speaker 2: cable bundle. Maybe there's some inertia in play there. They

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Speaker 2: like the ease of use, they like knowing where to

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Speaker 2: find everything. They like knowing that your show if they're

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Speaker 2: a Direct TV subscriber is on Channel two nineteen, and

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Speaker 2: they know where they can find Monday night football. They

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Speaker 2: know where they can find the NBA Playoffs. There's a

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Speaker 2: simplicity to it that is really compelling, and I think,

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Speaker 2: particularly for older consumers that grew up with cable, they're

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Speaker 2: not moving away from it anytime soon. I think we're

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Speaker 2: a long way from the end of the bundle.

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Speaker 1: You see this. I remember having a conversation years ago

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Speaker 1: with a friend of mine who's in the financial planning industry,

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Speaker 1: wealth management in New York, and we were talking about

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Speaker 1: the private jet industry, and there was I had to

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Speaker 1: take a private jet somewhere, and I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: how safe are these? And he said, well, just sign

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Speaker 1: up for the Warren Buffett company. That one will be viable.

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Speaker 1: He said. At some point, you know, there'll be about

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Speaker 1: three of those companies, maybe two. Like everything else. You know,

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Speaker 1: you know how the world works, right, people gobble up

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Speaker 1: smaller companies. And I look at streaming. Everybody has Netflix first,

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Speaker 1: in better rates, better production, cash heavy, asset heavy. They're fine.

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Speaker 1: I look at Disney. It still feels a little wobbly

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Speaker 1: where they're now churning a profit, but they lose seven

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand subs on their on their plus, so I

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Speaker 1: mean it's it's still not quite there. Amazon's fine. They

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Speaker 1: have a revenue, a reservoir. Amazon has a reservoir of money.

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Speaker 1: It's a It's the retail giant globally, right or at

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Speaker 1: least domestically. But I wonder when you look at streamers,

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Speaker 1: there was this thought five years ago streaming winds, everything

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Speaker 1: else loses. And I look at it today and I

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Speaker 1: see a lot of red, and I see a lot

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Speaker 1: of people watching television. There was a sense five years

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Speaker 1: ago streamers were taking over the world. At some point,

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Speaker 1: you have to make a profit. Do you do you

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Speaker 1: still feel like the dread of we're all under this

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Speaker 1: streaming dark cloud and it's about ready to strike us down.

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Speaker 2: Not at all. And I think, if anything, what the

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Speaker 2: last five years have established is that Fox and our

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Speaker 2: management team, people at higher levels than may have done

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Speaker 2: probably the best job of any legacy media company of

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Speaker 2: navigating the challenges of the transition to streaming and the

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Speaker 2: increased adoption of streaming. I think the two companies that

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Speaker 2: obviously have a biased opinion, but the two companies that

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Speaker 2: have done the best job of navigating the last five

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Speaker 2: to seven years are Netflix and I think us. You know,

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Speaker 2: I think we've been able to navigate that as well

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Speaker 2: as anyone because we didn't over invest in what I

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Speaker 2: would call an independent streaming platform. We remained committed to

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Speaker 2: the cable bundle. Were still committed to the cable bundle.

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Speaker 2: And I think being patient and not getting into that

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Speaker 2: streaming arms race has served a really well. Streaming means

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Speaker 2: a couple different things, right, and we sometimes talk about

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Speaker 2: it as if it's a monolith, as if it's all one.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Streaming means independent streamers like Netflix, Apple, Amazon, behemoth tech

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Speaker 2: companies that have trillion dollar market capitalizations. And that's one

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Speaker 2: version of streaming. Another version is the streaming arm of

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Speaker 2: traditional media companies like Peacock, like Paramount, like Max, which

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Speaker 2: useduld be called HBO Max. And then the third type

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Speaker 2: of streaming is streaming that sort of replicates your cable

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Speaker 2: bundle like Hulu Live and YouTube TV and a place

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Speaker 2: where you can go to get a package of networks,

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Speaker 2: but rather than it being delivered via a cable in

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Speaker 2: the back of your TV set, it comes through your

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Speaker 2: in home Wi Fi. So I think when we talk

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Speaker 2: about streaming, we have to be careful to define what

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Speaker 2: kind of streaming are we talking about. We are getting

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Speaker 2: ready to go into the direct to consumer business. Our

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Speaker 2: chairman Blachlan Murdoch has been very open about saying we

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Speaker 2: intend to have a direct to consumer offering ready by

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Speaker 2: this coming football season. It changes the way that we

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Speaker 2: think about certain aspects of how we program. We now

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Speaker 2: have to think in terms of having twelve month a

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Speaker 2: year strength so that we can keep a subscriber dialed

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Speaker 2: into us all year. But I think we're really comfortable

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Speaker 2: with the way we've managed this evolution, and I don't

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Speaker 2: think that we're in a situation where streaming is necessarily

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Speaker 2: going to take over everything. I mean, I think there

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Speaker 2: will be a continued incremental migration of some properties or

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Speaker 2: fractions of properties moving to exclusive streaming. But I think

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Speaker 2: we're also seeing a lot of success in properties staying

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Speaker 2: on broadcast, and that's the NFL. We talked about the

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Speaker 2: World Series ratings being at a seven year high. We

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Speaker 2: have done this deal with IndyCar where we're now going

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Speaker 2: to put every IndyCar race on broadcast and try to

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Speaker 2: take advantage of the power of the broadcast platform. And

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Speaker 2: I think what they're what we're finding is that there

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Speaker 2: is a path to coexistence, right that we want to

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Speaker 2: have strong, viable broadcast television I think there are very

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Speaker 2: compelling reasons why that's important, not just for sports, but

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Speaker 2: it's just important for communities to have strong broadcast TV.

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Speaker 2: I don't think the cable bundle is going away anytime soon,

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Speaker 2: and I think there's still room for streaming to continue

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Speaker 2: to grow its audience and to add more exclusive sports rights.

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Speaker 2: But I think it's a little simplistic, and I think

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Speaker 2: there've been some lazy takes out there suggesting that everything

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Speaker 2: is going to go to streaming. Not everything is going

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Speaker 2: to go to streaming. And when it goes to streaming,

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Speaker 2: as I say, that means different things. That can mean

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Speaker 2: that you are going to a huge tech company, or

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00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 2: you're going to streaming, but you're still within the Fox family,

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00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 2: or the NBCU family, the Paramount family, or it just

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00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 2: means that fifteen to twenty percent of your audience is

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00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: watching via a bundle of networks that's delivered via the

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Speaker 2: Internet rather than delivered via cable. But I never bought

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Speaker 2: into that more apocalyptic idea that the entire business is

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Speaker 2: going to streaming and we're all doomed. There's a migration

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Speaker 2: there and there will be a new equilibrium, and I

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Speaker 2: think we're getting close to it already.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, listen, I'm in. I started in AM radio,

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Speaker 1: then it became AMFM, and then it became like audio

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Speaker 1: and streaming, and then it became podcasts. And my takeaway

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Speaker 1: is it's like saying newspapers are dying. No, the delivery

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00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 1: system was outdated, but I still have the Wall Street Journal,

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Speaker 1: I still have the New York Times. I've never read

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Speaker 1: more in my life. So I mean, and maybe I'm just,

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Speaker 1: you know, an an old guy, but I've never read more.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm always bouncing around adding subscriptions. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know the old cliche content is king. It really

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Speaker 1: is true. Like if you have good content and good

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00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: games I watch. I think it's interesting. You know, my

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00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: love for college football, and so I like all the

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Speaker 1: new moves. I like NIL though it's imperfect. I like

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00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: transfer portal, though again there needs to be you know,

425
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 1: there needs to be a fence around in a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And I like the convergence of Texas Oklahoma to the

427
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: SEC and the PAC twelve schools, four of them going

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Speaker 1: to the Big Ten. So last year is the first year.

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Speaker 1: The ratings were a bit disappointing, although I do think

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Speaker 1: the first round matchups were choppy. I tend to think

431
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 1: we're a bit hyperbolic as media critics on things like

432
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: things take time to work themselves out. I think it'll

433
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: be better in the second year when you schedule college

434
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: football and you do this every year Big Ten. It

435
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: feels obvious to me that Michigan and Ohio State are

436
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: the number one in two brands. If I said, now

437
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 1: you have Oregon and the marketing machine of Phil Knight,

438
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: big market Washington Penn State USC, although it feels again

439
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: like it's underachieving. If you take Michigan and Ohio State out,

440
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 1: what brand moves the needle in the Big Ten that

441
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: maybe I would be surprised? Is there a definitive third

442
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: I would guess Penn State? And is there a game

443
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 1: or a team that would surprise me?

444
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 2: It's Penn State, and I don't think that would come

445
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 2: as much of a surprise to Yeah. I think once

446
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: you get past Michigan and Ohio State, the third most

447
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 2: important brand to us is Penn State. I think Oregon

448
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 2: obviously is an important brand, But as you know, the

449
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 2: way the Big Ten deal is constructed, the conference has

450
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 2: multiple partners. Each partner has a find window we do

451
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: games at noon. Eastern CBS has the late afternoon window,

452
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: NBC has the primetime window. Because we have that noon window,

453
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 2: it's almost inevitable that Oregon is just not likely to

454
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: be as impactful to us as schools that are in

455
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: the Eastern and Central time zone. I think again, I

456
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: don't know that this falls under the heading of surprising,

457
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: but I think every year we look at Nebraska as

458
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: a sleeping giant, and we hope for Nebraska to get

459
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 2: close to the kind of success that they had when

460
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 2: you and I were kids. We had them on a

461
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 2: Friday night last year. They got off to a pretty

462
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: good start to their season. They hosted Illinois in a

463
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 2: Friday night game. That game did over four million viewers.

464
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: That's terrific for a Friday night. That sort of hints

465
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: at what Nebraska could be if they ever got close

466
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: to the kind of success that they had years ago

467
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 2: under Tom Osborne. So certainly Michigan, Ohio State at the top,

468
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: Penn State next for us because we had that early window.

469
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 2: Oregon and SC obviously also very important, but their home

470
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,959
Speaker 2: games are going to be in later windows, and Nebraska

471
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: kind of lurking as the brand that you always hope

472
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 2: might sort of reawaken and drive the kind of viewership

473
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 2: that they once did.

474
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: Now, Ohio State complained, and I understand it. You know, listen,

475
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: you're a Buckeye fan. You like those late games, you

476
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: can get lubricated. You're going to the stadium at night.

477
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just more fun going to night games.

478
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: There's no question. I've been to a few Husky games,

479
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: USC games. There is a special vibe playing under the lights.

480
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: But Ohio State, also in our window, is the biggest draw.

481
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: What was last year a difficult ear? Some of it's

482
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: just what the schedule makers give you. What do you

483
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: say to the critics of Ohio State that say, hey, man,

484
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: you're killing us. We need night games. You can't just

485
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: keep going back and forth to us. What would you

486
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: say to the critics, Well, the.

487
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: First thing I would say is I completely understand the complaint.

488
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: Right the Ohio State finished their season last year six

489
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: consecutive noon kickoffs, and I think that's just a byproduct

490
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: of the games being allocated via a draft, right, Like,

491
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: we can only draft the best game that's available to

492
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 2: us each time that our selection comes up. If you

493
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: were creating a schedule, just on a blank sheet of paper,

494
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: you probably would not give the top team or a

495
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 2: top team in your conference the same kickoff time on

496
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: six consecutive weekends to finish the season. So that wasn't

497
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 2: by design. It was sort of just a product of circumstance.

498
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 2: And I do understand the frustration that some Buckeye fans

499
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 2: may have felt at the end of last year. I

500
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: want to back up a little and try to put

501
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 2: into some context the way that we see the scheduling

502
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 2: of the games and the deal that we have with

503
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 2: the Big Ten. Right what's the most significant thing that's

504
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: happening in college sports right now? I mean, I think

505
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: obviously the most significant development and the most positive development,

506
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: is that the athletes are moving closer and closer to

507
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: being fairly compensated. Right Athletes are getting paid. And you know,

508
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 2: when I see a story that Carson Beck is in

509
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 2: Miami and he's making over four million dollars and he's

510
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,239
Speaker 2: driving a Lamborghini, like, my knee jerk reaction to that

511
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: is that's awesome, because we have decades of history in

512
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: college sports where the athletes that drive all the value

513
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: were not being compensated appropriately and coaches were getting rich.

514
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: Media executives were getting rich. Everybody was making a lot

515
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: of money except for the athletes that actually drive the value.

516
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 2: And so we're now finally in a position where the players,

517
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: the young men and increasingly young women, who really drive

518
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 2: the value of these properties, are getting paid the way

519
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: that they should get paid. And whatever complexity comes with

520
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 2: that that makes a coach's job harder or makes the

521
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: environment maybe a little bit more challenging, all those challenges

522
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: are secondary to the right of the athletes to maximize

523
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: their earnings. I mean, I very very strongly believe that.

524
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: And so, as in any labor market, right, top talent

525
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: is going to follow top compensation. And as the athletes

526
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 2: are getting paid more commensurate with their market value, there's

527
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: more and more pressure on the conferences and more and

528
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: more pressure on the schools to maximize revenue so that

529
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: they can go out and get the best talent. That

530
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 2: brings us to the media rights. The Big Ten is

531
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: the best compensated conference in the country in terms of

532
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: media rights. The reason they're the best compensated conference in

533
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: the country is because they have multiple partners, because they

534
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: have a deal with US and with CBS and with NBC,

535
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: I think that's what enables the Big Ten to realize

536
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 2: more media revenue than the SEC, which is obviously the

537
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 2: other power conference in college football, and they've gone exclusively

538
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 2: with Disney. So by having multiple media partners, it sort

539
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: of creates a requirement for US to have a designated window,

540
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: for CBS to have a designated window, for c to

541
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 2: have a designated window, for US to apportion those games

542
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: out via a draft. We don't have the freedom that

543
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 2: Disney has to just put the best games wherever they

544
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 2: want to on the SEC side, And when you have

545
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: multiple partners and the games are being scheduled via a draft,

546
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: you're going to get to some inefficiencies like Ohio State

547
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: playing a bunch of games in a row at the

548
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: same time, or a frustration that Penn State fans had

549
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: when they had a home game last year that a

550
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: lot of their fans wanted to be in primetime as

551
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 2: the white out it was a big new game. Instead,

552
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: their fans were extremely vocal. I heard a lot about it, right,

553
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: But those are all things that are connected to macximizing

554
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 2: revenue for the conference, therefore maximizing revenue for the schools,

555
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: therefore maximizing revenue for the players, and that's the most

556
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 2: important thing, making sure that the kids are compensated in

557
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: the right way, and that the schools can go out

558
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: and get the talent that they need to compete for

559
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: a national championship, which is why I think we now

560
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: have a situation where at the very very highest level,

561
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 2: that handful of schools that are going to compete for

562
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: a national championship in football every year. The Big Ten

563
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 2: is just as good as the SEC, and may even

564
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: be pulling ahead a little bit. And it's because of

565
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: that revenue generation that's largely tied to the media rights.

566
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: I want to talk WNBA. I'm kind of fascinated by

567
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: it because I believe for its entire existence, the NBA

568
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: has subsidized the WNBA. And you may argue the moral

569
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: and there's a certain humanity to supporting women's sports. I

570
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: completely understand that. And then Kitlin Clark arrived and the

571
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: team flies private and the ratings are insane. Now, the

572
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: league was growing, and I think the quality over the

573
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: last ten years has improved dramatically, but Kitlyn Clark is,

574
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: as I've said, Taylor Swift and tennis shoes. It is

575
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: just a once in a generation. It's Tiger Woods, the golf,

576
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 1: it's Shoeo Todi. It's like, oh, it's an event. Every

577
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: game's an event. Is the WNBA a viable TV product?

578
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: Or is it we have a once in a generation talent?

579
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: Obviously the WNBA would not allow you to just buy

580
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,959
Speaker 1: a Caitland Clark package. But is she powerful enough because

581
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: she could have a twelve to fifteen year run here, Michael,

582
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: is she powerful enough a singular star with a little

583
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: bit of a magic Larry Bird quality because of Angel Reees?

584
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: That absolutely helps sort as a story we could follow

585
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: us Americans. We love our stories, we love the journey.

586
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: Reese is part of this. Is that over the next

587
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: fifteen years going to be a viable TV product? Or

588
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: do we just have a megastar? And that's all it is?

589
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 2: So it's both those things. And I know it's always

590
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 2: sort of a cop out answer when you give somebody

591
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: an either or choice and they say it's both. But

592
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: I do think in the WNDA, it's both something that

593
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 2: was growing and viable and becoming more viable by the year,

594
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 2: and then you injected into that a once in a

595
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 2: lifetime talent in Caitlin Clark who I think is very

596
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 2: obviously the overwhelming number one factor in the growth of

597
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 2: WNBA viewership last year. You know, I think when we

598
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: looked at Indiana Fever games versus all other WNBA games

599
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 2: last year, the Caitlin Clark games were doing triple the

600
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 2: viewership of the rest of the league, and that is

601
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 2: a Tiger Woods level of impact. I don't know that

602
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 2: there's ever been anybody in Team sports, even Michael Jordan,

603
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 2: where you would look at their games and see them

604
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 2: doing triple the average of the rest of the league.

605
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 2: So I do think a big part of it is

606
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 2: that once in a lifetime phenomenon of Caitlin Clark, and

607
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: we should just acknowledge the obvious and make it clear

608
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 2: that she is plainly the driving force behind the growth

609
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 2: of the league. But at the same time, if God forbid,

610
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: Kaylyn Clark had a career ending injury, she were out

611
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: of the league. If Kaitlyn Clark just were taken out

612
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 2: of the equation, I still think the WNBA would be

613
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 2: on a growth trajectory, and it wouldn't be the kind

614
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 2: of exponential growth that we saw last year. But this

615
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 2: is a product that was moving forward pretty steadily prior

616
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 2: to Caitlin. And even now, if you look at the

617
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 2: collegiate level, yes, seeing growth, ESPN seeing some growth. You've

618
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 2: still got this next generation of superstars. That's Gugi Watkins

619
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: here in LA, it's Page Becker's in Connecticut right Like,

620
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: we're still seeing progress post Caitlin. And it makes me

621
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: think that, like, obviously she's the catalyst, She's what drives

622
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 2: the explosion of interest. I think sometimes we overstate the

623
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: idea that it's more than Caitlin. But there was a

624
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: growth curve there before, yes, and I think it would

625
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 2: continue even if we were somehow in a post Kaitlin.

626
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: You know what, And let me throw this at you,

627
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: Michael and pushback please, But women's basketball is a little

628
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: like men's basketball thirty years ago. It's not as international,

629
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: and the players are staying in college for three and

630
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: four years. So I watched the WNBA draft this year.

631
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: I knew the top eight players. I didn't know any

632
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: of the NBA's players. So as leagues get more global,

633
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: it's not always great for all things domestic. Is that

634
00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: when I watch these women's basketball players go to the

635
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 1: pros early they played four years Caitlyn Clark was a

636
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: three year So I heard about her when she was

637
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: a sophomore junior. It's a national story. She's a phenom

638
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: as a senior, and so what's happening. This is the

639
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: way people forget that you ing and Tim Duncan and

640
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: you know Chris Paul's I mean, Michael Jordan didn't come

641
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: out after his freshman year. People forget it was at

642
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: Carolina and didn't win a title. And so women's basketball

643
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 1: is a lot like men's college basketball was in nineteen

644
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: eighty eight. Is that the stars stayed and I had

645
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: a story and there were rivalries, Burden Magic, and then

646
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: they went to the draft and I had heard of them,

647
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: and then I followed them in the NBA. And so

648
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: I'm with you on this, Caitlyn's part of it, But

649
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: I think as NBA has gotten more international, the domestic

650
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: component to women's basketball actually fortifies their growth. Like sometimes

651
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: it's a distracted as society. Michael, I want to follow

652
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 1: simple stories and watch in Iowa and U con Baylor.

653
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: It's real easy I can follow. Yeah, the journey's easy

654
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: for me to follow. So maybe I'm wrong on that,

655
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: but that's just how it works for me.

656
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 2: No, and the word in everything that you just said

657
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 2: that really resonates with me is simplicity, right, because we're

658
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 2: always looking for ways to simplify being a sports fan.

659
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 2: We want the games to be on networks where you're

660
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 2: familiar with seeing the games. We want the brands to

661
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 2: be familiar. When a player moves from the collegiate level

662
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 2: to the professional level, whether that's basketball or football, it's

663
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 2: incredibly helpful for the fan, the viewer to have two

664
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: or three years of history of getting to know this player.

665
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 2: So I agree. I mean, that's absolutely true of Kaitlin Clark,

666
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 2: But I was like you and you can watch the

667
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: w NBA Draft and you know, you do know Angel

668
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 2: Reese and you know Cameron Brink and you've seen them

669
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 2: play in the tournament. And to give some credit to

670
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: a competitor, you know, the job that ESPN is done

671
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: in growing the women's collegiate tournament is extraordinary. You know,

672
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 2: we like to think that we're just as powerful as

673
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 2: they are in women's basketball during the regular season, but

674
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: you know, the growth that the women's tournament has enjoyed

675
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 2: is incredible, and there's absolutely a direct connection between the

676
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 2: success of that tournament and then the success that you

677
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: saw last year in the WNBA ratings.

678
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: This is the always been sort of the I think

679
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: Lachlan talked about this the other day about continuing to

680
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: nurture the relationship with the NFL. Obviously, if you don't

681
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: have NFL football, you can argue about what your menu

682
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: needs to look like as a sports network. We all

683
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: have to have the NFL. And I was thinking about this,

684
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: and I'm just going to ramble here for a minute

685
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: and a half. Amazon is a retail giant. I do

686
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: not always love the quality of their programming, but they're

687
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: getting better. Netflix is a content giant, so I tend

688
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: to think they get content. They get documentaries, they get films,

689
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: they get specials, but that doesn't necessarily mean they get sports.

690
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: And I have been disappointed with Netflix attempts at sports events.

691
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 1: This is where I think networks are excellent. I think

692
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: our production values at Fox are second to none. I

693
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: think NBCCBS these are tiffany experiences. These are tremendous production experiences.

694
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: I mean the Super Bowl. I mean Fox will go

695
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: eight hours live or seven hours live. But commercials to production,

696
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,720
Speaker 1: they make you cry, they make you laugh. The Jimmy

697
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: John it's an aipiece. It's just spectacular. I would argue

698
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: that if a Netflix came in and said, all right,

699
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: we are buying a bigger NFL package, I would argue

700
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: they would be better served to say, hey, Fox, can

701
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: you produce it? You're really good at this production thing.

702
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you, as a consumer, all companies do

703
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: things well. I don't think these streamers understand the value

704
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: and how hard TV production is. So I mean that's

705
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: just my take as a consumer. Tell me I'm wrong,

706
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 1: lay it out, fire holes in this, But I still

707
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: think network television has a role in sports, even with streamers.

708
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot to react to there, right, So

709
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 2: why don't we start with what's the role that network

710
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,439
Speaker 2: television has to play even in a world where we're

711
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 2: competing with tech companies that are capitalized many multiple times

712
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 2: greater than we are. Right, I really value broadcasting. I'm

713
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: sure you do as well.

714
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 1: Oh, I absolutely.

715
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: The first sort of job I had in my life

716
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: was I worked at a radio station in Pittsburgh when

717
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 2: I was fifteen years old. And I've always thought that

718
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: broadcasting occupies a really unique and special place in our culture,

719
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:39,720
Speaker 2: largely because you are transmitting over public airwaves. You therefore

720
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 2: have a certain responsibility to the community that you serve,

721
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 2: and I think broadcasters are a little bit more ingrained

722
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 2: in their markets than a national cable network can be,

723
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 2: or than a worldwide tech platform can be. And I

724
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: think one of the reasons that it's so important for

725
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 2: major sports to remain on over the air broadcast television

726
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 2: is because of that role broadcasters play. You and I

727
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: are both in southern California, right we just lived through

728
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: the LA wildfires. On the night that the wildfires happened.

729
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 2: If you look at TV ratings here in LA, people

730
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 2: who had power and were able to watch TV that night,

731
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 2: they chose local news over national news by a margin

732
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: of almost ten to one. When something really serious, when

733
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 2: there's a serious emergency that happens in a community, people

734
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 2: go to their local broadcasters. That was true out here.

735
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 2: That's when a hurricane threatens the Gulf Coast. It's probably

736
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,240
Speaker 2: true in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina last night and today.

737
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 2: People rely on local broadcasts. And so if the viability

738
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 2: of local broadcast television is dependent in part on those

739
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: stations having marquee sports sports that will keep people subscribed

740
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 2: to a cable bundle or that will keep advertisers coming

741
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 2: to that station. I think it's incredibly important that we

742
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 2: keep as much high profile sports as we can, or

743
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 2: at least keep a significant percentage of high profile sports

744
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: on broadcast, because broadcast and local journalism really matters a lot.

745
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 2: And I think there's something very pro consumer about making

746
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 2: sure that big sports events stay on broadcast TV, not exclusively,

747
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 2: but predominantly. And I think a lot of the power

748
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 2: of sports that we have talked about from time to

749
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 2: time is that it does bring communities together. It brings

750
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: people together. It matters to a city when the Philadelphia

751
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: Eagles do a sixty rating for the Super Bowl or

752
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 2: a fifty for the NFC Championship game, meaning that literally

753
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: fifty percent of the market is tuned in that can

754
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: only happen on broadcast TV. So I do think there

755
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 2: are unique qualities to free over the air broadcasts that

756
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 2: as an industry, we need to acknowledge that there's real

757
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: value there and that there's something special there that has

758
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 2: to be protected not just for the benefit of the leagues,

759
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: but for the benefit of the communities that these broadcasters serve.

760
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 2: So that's me on my soapbox about podcasting wife, it

761
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: was like the quality of production. Just to get to

762
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 2: the other part. I think Amazon's production of Thursday night

763
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 2: Football is awesome, right, and.

764
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: I think it's gotten better. I think it was clunky early,

765
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: it's gotten better.

766
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 2: But a lot of the people who are behind that

767
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 2: are people that used to work here, right, and they've

768
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: moved out to Amazon, and they've hired talent that worked

769
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 2: at Broadcast Networks. And I think they do a really,

770
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 2: really good job. And I would never criticize the way

771
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 2: that somebody else produces the games. I will say that

772
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 2: at a company like ours, sports is just so vital

773
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 2: to our business. You know, you look at the Fox

774
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,479
Speaker 2: Broadcast network. Over eighty percent of our viewing this year

775
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: will be viewing of sports. Over fifty percent of our

776
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 2: viewing is going to be viewing of the NFL. If

777
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 2: we don't do a great job on the NFL, if

778
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: we don't do a great job producing it, we don't

779
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 2: do a great job selling it, we don't hire the

780
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 2: right talent, we don't have a company. And I think

781
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 2: that is very different from some of these other companies

782
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 2: you're describing, where I think Amazon does a great job

783
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 2: with Thursday Night Football, The reality is that the revenue

784
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 2: that they generate from Thursday Night football represents a tiny,

785
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: tiny fraction of one percent of the revenue that Amazon

786
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 2: will do this year. Same thing is true with Netflix.

787
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: You know, Apple has a more limited sports presence, but obviously,

788
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 2: like the revenue that they generate from sports is just

789
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 2: infinitesimal compared to their overall business. At a company like Fox, NBC, Disney, CBS,

790
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 2: sports just means more. It means more to our bottom line,

791
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 2: It means more to our very existence as a company.

792
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 2: We have to be great at production because if we

793
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 2: fail at this, we fail as a company. If the

794
00:47:56,080 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: big tech platforms fail at producing live sports, they don't

795
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 2: fail as a company. It doesn't really matter that much

796
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 2: to the future health of Amazon or of Apple. And

797
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 2: again I do think they produce the events really well,

798
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 2: but you just can't deny that it's a bigger portion

799
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 2: of our business. It's a higher priority for us company,

800
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 2: and it affects the people that work here, it affects

801
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 2: our shareholders, it affects every part of what we do.

802
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,879
Speaker 2: That we have to be excellent at game production. There's

803
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 2: just more of a mandate and a necessity at a

804
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: place like this.

805
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I watched the Apple baseball stuff Roku.

806
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: It's not a shot at people, It's just I think.

807
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: I think to be excellent at anything, you have to

808
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: be somewhat obsessed. And money can't solve obsession, right, Like

809
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 1: when you watch I know how much football means. It's

810
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: a CBS and Fox. I can feel it.

811
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 2: Right, I know.

812
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: And I also know what storytelling means to Netflix. You know,

813
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: I can tell when I watched I watched two documentaries

814
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: this week on Netflix, and god, they know they're all

815
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 1: over the globe doing this stuff. So uh and like

816
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: everybody else on I'm on Amazon at least twice a

817
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: week ordering something. So I think companies let you know

818
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: what matters by the quality of what they do well.

819
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: And and nobody does everything well and I did regardless

820
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: of money, nobody does everything well.

821
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 2: Look, I think in the linear TV world, and this

822
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 2: is the line that I've used a lot, uh, CBS, NBC, ABC, ESPN,

823
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 2: the companies that have the NFL. If you have the

824
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: NFL in the legacy media world, you're relevant no matter

825
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: what else you do. If you're a legacy media company

826
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 2: and you have the NFL, you're relevant. If you're a

827
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 2: legacy media company and you don't have the NFL, you're

828
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,359
Speaker 2: competing to be the least your relevant. Like, that's how

829
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 2: dark that difference is. In the tech world, Amazon, Apple, Netflix,

830
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 2: these companies are relevant. I mean, they're obviously incredibly relevant

831
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 2: to the culture at large. They don't necessarily need that

832
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 2: live they want the live sports relationships. But Apple doesn't

833
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 2: need live sports rights to demonstrate that they matter in

834
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 2: this culture and in this country. Amazon doesn't either. Netflix

835
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 2: at this point certainly doesn't. We do, and I would

836
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 2: say the other broadcast networks do too. We need the

837
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 2: NFL to insulate us against being irrelevant. And the companies

838
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 2: in the legacy world that are sort of on the

839
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: outside looking in when it comes to the NFL, they

840
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 2: would immediately gain relevance by having it, and by not

841
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 2: having it, they have to look for other ways to

842
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 2: demonstrate that they actually matter in the culture. So I

843
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 2: think that's where the importance of marquee sports rights is

844
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 2: a little bit different in our legacy broadcasting, cable driven

845
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 2: world than it is in the world of tech giants

846
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 2: that are worth a trillion dollars whether they have live

847
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 2: sports or not.

848
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: The president of insight and analytics at Fox Sports. He

849
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: tolerates me. Michael mulva Hill, I love all this stuff,

850
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: and you know, what can I say? I ask questions,

851
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,439
Speaker 1: you provide insight, and you do this at least once

852
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: a year. Let me look at this real quick. You

853
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: do this at least once a year, and you know

854
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 1: about twice a year. I walk up to Michael's office

855
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: and he's eating a ten of sandwich and I just

856
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: sit down and start asking questions. So I figured I'd

857
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 1: put it on the schedule to be less inconsiderate. They

858
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: are more considerate this time. And Michael, you know, I

859
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: just think highly of you and I really do appreciate

860
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 1: you taking the time.

861
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 2: I love doing it. I love it when you wander

862
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 2: into this office. I never know what question you're going

863
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 2: to ask next. Keeps me on my toes and forces

864
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,919
Speaker 2: me to sort of think through our positions on various topic.

865
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 2: And I really appreciate the invite to come on and

866
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 2: do this with you in front of an audience rather

867
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 2: than just one on one in this office. I'm happy

868
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 2: to do it anytime. The volume