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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.

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Speaker 2: This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher

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Speaker 2: on Fox Sports Radio.

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Speaker 1: Ah, here we go. It is a Wednesday. People are

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Speaker 1: fuming and outraged and enraged. It's The Herd in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: Wherever you may be, however you may be listening, good

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Speaker 1: show today. Thanks for making us part of your day.

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Speaker 1: So the interweb just went crazy last night. Jimmy Johnson's yelling,

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Speaker 1: screaming to on tots and pans. Bill Belichick, in his

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Speaker 1: first year of eligibility, did not get voted into the

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Speaker 1: NFL Hall of Fame. Now let's start with this. He will,

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Speaker 1: He's a Hall of Famer. He'll get in. And we

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Speaker 1: don't know that he didn't get thirty nine of the

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Speaker 1: fifty votes. I'm sure he got a majority. So let's

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Speaker 1: just start talking about is it possible possible that what

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Speaker 1: am I about to explain to you when into consideration.

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Speaker 1: Let me start with this. The winningest coach of all

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Speaker 1: time Don Shula got to a Super Bowl with Dan Marino,

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Speaker 1: David Woodley, and Earl Morale. He had to wait five

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Speaker 1: years until he was even eligible for the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 1: But because of a tweak this year in the voting.

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Speaker 1: And I don't like this at all, coaches now can

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Speaker 1: get in one year removed from being out of the league.

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Speaker 1: So the greatest players can't, but coaches can. Is it

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Speaker 1: possible that a handful of voters eleven twelve voters went Timeout,

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Speaker 1: the classiest guy ever, the winningest guy ever, the guy

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Speaker 1: Belichick's been chasing forever. Don Shula had to wait five

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Speaker 1: years to even be eligible, and now because of a

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Speaker 1: weird tweak, I gotta put Belichick, who was a jerk forever,

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Speaker 1: and that does matter. I'll get to that later. Some

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Speaker 1: of these voters are writers. I'm gonna put him in

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Speaker 1: day one. Nah, I'll put him in next year. That

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Speaker 1: gets me to the second part of this. If you

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Speaker 1: take out one superstar quarterback in Belichick's career, he has

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Speaker 1: a winning percentage below Jerry Glanville and equal to Anthony Lynn.

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Speaker 1: With Brady, his team scored almost twenty nine points a

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Speaker 1: game and he won seventy seven percent of his games.

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Speaker 1: Without Brady, they scored nineteen points and he wins forty

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Speaker 1: four percent. And not only that, he was fired in

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Speaker 1: Cleveland without him, was about to get fired in New

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Speaker 1: England before Drew Bledsoe got hurt. And then the minute

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Speaker 1: Brady left, he put a defensive coordinator in at OC

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Speaker 1: in the one year. And think about this, Mike Frabel

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Speaker 1: is getting to a super Bowl with Drake May who's

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Speaker 1: not even a finished product. The current New England coach,

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Speaker 1: Mike Vrabel got a number one seed with Ryan Tannehill,

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Speaker 1: the seventeenth best quarterback in the league. Okay, Brady leaves

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Speaker 1: and they can't score, they don't get offense to the

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Speaker 1: worst drafting team in the league. I mean Bill Parcells

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Speaker 1: is his mentor. He won super Bowls with Jeff Hosteler

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Speaker 1: and Phil Simms was Parcells was Belichick's mentor. He had

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Speaker 1: to wait forever. Phil Parcells. Ask yourself if there was

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Speaker 1: a great move director who made twenty movies. In twelve

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Speaker 1: of them he had a superstar actor and they won

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Speaker 1: Oscars and they were amazing. In the eight other movies

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Speaker 1: he didn't have that one superstar actor and they were unwatchable.

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Speaker 1: Dreck Porky's two Would it give you pause for five minutes?

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Speaker 3: Ago?

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Speaker 1: Was it the director or the actor? Even with a

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Speaker 1: stacked roster of the one year Brady got hurt, they

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Speaker 1: couldn't make the playoffs and again Vrabel got a number

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Speaker 1: one seed with Ryan Tannehill. Okay, and here's the third part.

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Speaker 1: I'm just asking you to consider it because Belichick is

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Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer and will get In the third part,

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Speaker 1: what is the most valuable week of the year in

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Speaker 1: Pro football? What is the one week of the year

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Speaker 1: that the league values the most? Super Bowl Week? And

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven it was tarnished because Belichick

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Speaker 1: footage of him taping another team and Roger Goodell had

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Speaker 1: to go to the Super Ball an all week long

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Speaker 1: address Belichick's cheating. Folks, you successful men out there, there

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Speaker 1: is a tax in life. You can be a great

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Speaker 1: husband for forty five years, but if your wife finds

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Speaker 1: that one of those years you were cheating, you will

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Speaker 1: sleep on the couch. At minimum. There is a tax

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Speaker 1: to pay. If the most valuable week of the year.

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Speaker 1: You blew it up once because you were taping another team.

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Speaker 1: So in review, Don Shula had to wait five years. Parcels,

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Speaker 1: your mentor waited forever. Your winning percentage is forty four

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Speaker 1: percent without Brady, and you blew up a Super Bowl week.

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Speaker 1: If you have several asterisks by your name, is it

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Speaker 1: okay to pause for a year. My staff also did

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Speaker 1: an interesting thing this morning. We went and looked at

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Speaker 1: some of the other great coaches to see how quickly

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Speaker 1: they got in. Vince Lombardi, you know, the guy they

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Speaker 1: named the trophy after, did not get in first year eligible.

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Speaker 1: Bill Walsh, the most innovative coach in the history of

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Speaker 1: the league. Half the league uses his offense, did not

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Speaker 1: get in first year eligible. Joe Gibbs in unquestionably three

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Speaker 1: Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks, the most underrated coach

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Speaker 1: in the history of the league. Joe Gibbs first year

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Speaker 1: eligibility doesn't get in. Jimmy Johnson waited forever, Parcels waited.

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Speaker 1: Andy Reed'll have to wait. But because they tweaked and

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Speaker 1: I don't agree with this, they tweaked the voting so

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Speaker 1: the coaches can now get right in. Somebody said Walsh

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Speaker 1: didn't get in, Lombardi didn't get in, Gibs didn't get

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Speaker 1: make him wait a year. They may not be punishing Belichick,

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Speaker 1: they're punishing the voting methodology. So again, let's let's not

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Speaker 1: argue that Bill is a Hall of Fame coach. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I would have voted him in. But when you change

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Speaker 1: the voting methodology, I mean, this is what Biden and

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Speaker 1: Trump argue lines, where do you vote? Who's voting for?

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Speaker 3: Who?

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Speaker 1: Who's voting? I mean we can't even get our presidential

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Speaker 1: election voting right. You cheated, you rigged it you. I

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Speaker 1: mean Hall of Fame voting has always been wonky. I mean,

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Speaker 1: baseball's got a morality clause. Football doesn't. But when you

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Speaker 1: change it, sometimes stuff like this happens. He's getting in.

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Speaker 1: But if you take a deep breath, I think you

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Speaker 1: have to. When Rady left, went to Tampa, won a

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl and Bill's teams were awful, DC to oci,

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Speaker 1: doesn't that make you pause a little bit? I mean,

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Speaker 1: what makes Christopher Nolan and Spielberg and the great director

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Speaker 1: so amazing. They use all sorts of actors and writers

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Speaker 1: and they can do it. That's what makes Joe Gibbs

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Speaker 1: and Parcels and the great coach Bill Walsh. And when

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Speaker 1: Andy Reid gets to Super Bowls with guys not named

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Speaker 1: Ma Holmes, Andy Reid wins with everybody you take out Brady.

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Speaker 1: You can't pause for a year ago.

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Speaker 4: Again.

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Speaker 1: You guys are all freaking out. He's getting in. He

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Speaker 1: deserves to be in. But you start looking at the methodology.

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Speaker 1: I do not like the idea that players have to

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Speaker 1: wait for half a decade to be eligible and coaches

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Speaker 1: can get in immediately. That makes no It's a player's league,

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Speaker 1: not a coach's league. I mean, I love Andy Reid,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't Oyston Trophies still my homes. How about this

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Speaker 1: Bill can get in once Tom's in, Since there's an

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Speaker 1: argument to be made he was going to get fired.

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Speaker 1: Belichick in New England would have failed that both jobs

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Speaker 1: had a surly reputation and may have never had any

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Speaker 1: of this debate because he didn't get another head job.

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Speaker 1: Brady's eligible in what twenty twenty eight? Bill's eligible? Now

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Speaker 1: you like that?

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Speaker 2: I don't like that.

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Speaker 1: Jmack. Before I go to my next story, I think

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because when you start looking at who gets

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Speaker 1: in and the eligibility. Baseball's Hall of Fame is weird

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Speaker 1: because they put in morality clauses and you know, like

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Speaker 1: are you a good person? Did you cheat? And there's

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Speaker 1: been great consternation and debate on that. The NFL doesn't

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Speaker 1: do that, but there are people voting on this who

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Speaker 1: covered Bill. I mean, he wouldn't talk to I know

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Speaker 1: two Hall of Fame voters he refused to talk to

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Speaker 1: for fifteen years. He held grudges, he could be petty,

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Speaker 1: he could be difficult, and every business, including football coaching,

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Speaker 1: is a people business. There was a reason when Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Johnson got in on the set, all the other men

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Speaker 1: there cried because Jimmy'd been good to a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Belichick didn't even have a coaching tree. I mean seriously,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's like Sean McVay, relative to Belichick's been

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Speaker 1: in the league forty five minutes, He's got a coaching forest.

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Speaker 1: So like, there is something to be said in your life.

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Speaker 1: It's not a morality thing. But if you dump on people,

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Speaker 1: if you're difficult. Bobby Knight's life ended sadly while he

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Speaker 1: was still coaching. I'm not talking his health deterioration I'm

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Speaker 1: talking his last eight nine years of coaching. He bullied people,

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Speaker 1: He alienated people. Even Coach K like, stop connecting with him.

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Speaker 1: Coach K, It's like, I'm not gonna deal with you.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to talk with you. If you treat

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Speaker 1: people like that, nobody's saying you won't get in. Howard

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Speaker 1: Stern took forever to get it into the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 1: And radio why he made fun of the Hall of

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Speaker 1: Famer radio. Everybody knew he and Rush Limbaugh dominated American radio.

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Speaker 1: But if you poke people in the ribs, you're difficult,

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Speaker 1: You mock you, you rip. You don't be surprised if

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Speaker 1: there's a little bit a twelve month tax on your

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Speaker 1: actions and personality, just a little bit of a tax.

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Speaker 1: Just sleep on the couch for a night or two.

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Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying.

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Speaker 5: But can you still take the whole Hall of Fame vote?

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Speaker 1: Seriously?

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Speaker 5: Colin If when you see all the fifteen twenty thirty

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Speaker 5: names up eligible for the Hall of Fame and you

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Speaker 5: go through them, you see Bill Belichick saying that's an automatic,

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Speaker 5: he's in.

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Speaker 1: He's one of my tub Let's look at the press,

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's look at the president. Why wasn't that

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Speaker 1: the case with Parcels or Jimmy Johnson or Vince Lombardi

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Speaker 1: or Bill Walsh or Joe Gibbs. The damn trophy guy

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Speaker 1: didn't get in. Belichick has more trophies. I think that

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Speaker 1: all those guys may becoming more trophies. It's a different world.

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Speaker 1: But if they're if you literally have a trophy named

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Speaker 1: after you, you think you would have got in rather

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Speaker 1: quickly it.

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Speaker 5: He was in his infancy then back then, you know,

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Speaker 5: it was really early. I'm just curious. Are you surprised

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Speaker 5: by the whole Craft situation. You know, he's been waiting,

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Speaker 5: I think fourteen years to get into the Hall of

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Speaker 5: Fame and now he would have gone in with Belichick

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Speaker 5: if they both got in this time. And by all accounts,

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Speaker 5: it sounds like Craft's getting in and Belichick is not

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Speaker 5: interesting subplot given their.

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Speaker 2: Ugly ending in New England.

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Speaker 1: Remember that beyond ugly end.

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Speaker 5: I mean they initially said it was a there's a

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Speaker 5: mutually parting of ways. Ten months later Craft on record,

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Speaker 5: Oh I fired him. You know I took a risk

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Speaker 5: on that guy. It's been ugly between those two.

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Speaker 1: I think the subplots here are fascinating column Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: and again Bill's getting in. He may have gotten thirty

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Speaker 1: nine of the fifty votes. But remember in the football voting,

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Speaker 1: five people are eligible. Well you only get a vote

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Speaker 1: for three. It's just ridiculous. So all these Hall of

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Speaker 1: Fame votes are I mean, voting in America for presidents

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Speaker 1: is convoluted, difficult, redistricting. I mean, this is what we

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Speaker 1: argue about every four years. This side cheated this redistrict voting,

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Speaker 1: Like for this stuff, all voting is weird. It should

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Speaker 1: be more transparent. I think when you vote for Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame, you should be able to go in and

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Speaker 1: say somebody gets in or they don't. It shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: limited to I can vote for two of five or

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Speaker 1: three of five. Bill Belichick. You think he's in or not? Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: he shouldn't be. You shouldn't qualify it based on well,

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Speaker 1: I've got to let this guy in and that guy

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Speaker 1: not it. So the whole thing. I don't mind a

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Speaker 1: handful of sports writers who covered the league forever being

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Speaker 1: part of it. I would put executives, coaches a few

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Speaker 1: of those, Like, if you're an observer to something, you

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Speaker 1: can have a right to vote in any Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 1: It could be rady. I mean I was just in

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Speaker 1: a radio Hall of Fame dinner. There were executives, there

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Speaker 1: were hosts, there were there were syndicated there were salespeople there.

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Speaker 1: You know, all sorts of people matter in any business.

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Speaker 1: But you're right to voting. Like, I love Roger Craig.

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Speaker 5: You know they they were Roger Craig on the Niners,

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Speaker 5: the high stepping, tough running back.

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Speaker 1: He's awesome. How can you vote Roger Craig in the

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame over Bill Belichick? Like, on no level?

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Speaker 1: Does that make it? Remember anounce of sense? Remember just

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Speaker 1: one guy. I'm just saying, But Bill is going to

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Speaker 1: get in he is. Yeah, he's just sleeping on the

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Speaker 1: couch for how about that? All right? Mike McCarthy is official.

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Speaker 1: He is the Steeler coach. Big Ben says something I

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Speaker 1: think's worth noting. That's next, It's the Hurt.

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Speaker 2: Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays

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Speaker 2: in noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio

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Speaker 2: FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 6: Hey, it's Ben, host of the Fifth Hour with Ben

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Speaker 6: Maller with me and a lot to have you joined

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Speaker 6: us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking one in

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Speaker 6: God's name is the Fifth Hour? I'll tell you it's

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Speaker 6: a spin off of it. Ben Mathers show a Colt

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Speaker 6: hit overnights on FSR. Why should you listen? Picture if

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Speaker 6: you will a world will? We chat with captains of

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Speaker 6: industry in media, sports, and more every week explore some

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Speaker 6: amazing facts about human nature and more. Listen to the

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Speaker 6: Fifth Hour with Ben mather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

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Speaker 6: Podcast or wherever you get your podcast about.

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Speaker 1: Once a year. Seth Wickersham stops by the show, senior

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Speaker 1: writer at ESBN, New York Times best selling author. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how he's a senior writer anywhere since he

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Speaker 1: looks like Joe Burrow's younger brother. But Seth is now

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Speaker 1: joining us alive. The man does not age. But let's

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Speaker 1: get to the football stuff. How are you doing, Seth?

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Speaker 1: So I made the argument with the voting methodology changing,

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Speaker 1: we all know Belichick's a Hall of Famer that now

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Speaker 1: coaches can get right in, players still can't. It's like, wait,

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Speaker 1: so Brady has to wait till twenty twenty eight Belichick

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Speaker 1: can get right in? Is some of this maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: voters saying, well, Lombardi, Walsh waited, Shula waited, Gibbs weighted,

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Speaker 1: It's okay if Bill waits a year. Is some of

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Speaker 1: it just the methodology methodology change in the voting.

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Speaker 4: Well thanks man.

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Speaker 7: And you know, look, if you have Burrow on the show,

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Speaker 7: maybe you know, don't mention.

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Speaker 4: That I look like his little brother. I think that

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Speaker 4: would probably lead to some awkward content.

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Speaker 7: I think that there is something to the methodology change,

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Speaker 7: but not quite that I think. So this is interesting

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Speaker 7: is that, like a couple of years ago, they changed

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Speaker 7: the groups of people who get in and they created

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Speaker 7: the Hall of Fame. Did created this hodgepodge of senior players, coaches,

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Speaker 7: and contributors. So this is why, in case your viewers

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Speaker 7: are wondering, we have Bill Belichick up against Roger Craig

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Speaker 7: and Ken Anderson the quarterback for the Bengals of the seventies, to.

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Speaker 4: Make it into the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 7: And there's fifty voters and they can vote for three candidates.

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Speaker 7: And I think that's where things got really tricky. I

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Speaker 7: think that there's some voters who didn't vote for him

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Speaker 7: because of Spygate and because of the you know, the

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Speaker 7: cheating and the rule breaking that happened during that time,

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Speaker 7: and then I think there's a lot of voters who

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Speaker 7: tried to vote for their guys with the assumption that Belichick.

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Speaker 4: Was going to get in.

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Speaker 7: I think they figured that it was a FATA complete

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Speaker 7: and so because of that, it's like this perfect storm

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Speaker 7: of you know, dysfunction where a guy who has eight

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Speaker 7: Super Bowl rings and is the second winningest coach of

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Speaker 7: all time, greatest coach at least of the Super.

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Speaker 1: Bowl era in the NFL, didn't get in. I think

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Speaker 1: that's what happened Spygate. Listen, a lot of coaches, Bill Kawer,

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Johnson have said, you know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: were taping. I made the argument the most valuable week

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Speaker 1: of the year in American sports and certainly for the

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Speaker 1: NFL a Super Bowl week. Roger Goodell in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven had to answer questions for six days, and

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Speaker 1: it burned a lot of bridges. I mean, and Bill's

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Speaker 1: bridge burning and being a little petty Spygate is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, baseball's got a morality clause. NFL doesn't, do

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Speaker 1: you think that turned off a few voters at least

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Speaker 1: one time.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and I think that Belichick was probably Look, they

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Speaker 7: were taping it from the illegal location for seven years

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Speaker 7: before they got caught. You know, the league had sent

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Speaker 7: Belichick three letters warning him to stop, and he didn't

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Speaker 7: do it. Then I think Belichick's paying also a price

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Speaker 7: for the way that the investigation was conducted, which was

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Speaker 7: really a matter of days. It's kind of astonishing to

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Speaker 7: think about now, but here you had this like longtime

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Speaker 7: taping operation, and Ernie Adams and Bill Belichick two of

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Speaker 7: the best football minds at the time in the middle

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Speaker 7: of it, and three Super Bowls won by a total

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Speaker 7: of nine points by that moment in time. And really

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Speaker 7: what happened was that, you know, they they started the

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Speaker 7: investigation and closed it within a week, and Jeff Passed,

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Speaker 7: the general counsel for the NFL at the time, went

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Speaker 7: to Jilutt Stadium and stomped tapes into pieces in a

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Speaker 7: conference room, leaving it for the Patriots executives.

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Speaker 1: To clean up.

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Speaker 7: By the way, so there was like an entire perception

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Speaker 7: that the league was covering up and swept all this

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Speaker 7: stuff under the rug for Belichick and for Robert Kraft,

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Speaker 7: and that really came back around on too fleet Gate,

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Speaker 7: where we wrote about how that was a quote makeup

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Speaker 7: call for Spygate. And I still think that there's some

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Speaker 7: of that lingering. You know, there's you know, we wrote

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Speaker 7: about Bill Pollian in the article. You know, those teams

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Speaker 7: that had to compete against Belichick. Haven't forgotten those things try.

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Speaker 7: But I also think that, you know, for some of

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Speaker 7: the writers in the room, they're not as personally offended

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Speaker 7: as maybe someone like Tony Dunge or Bill Belichick would be.

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Speaker 1: Do we know you got to get forty out of

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Speaker 1: fifty votes? He could have gotten forty nine? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean my take is, we don't know what the

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Speaker 1: vote total is. Seth, do you have any idea now

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Speaker 1: what the vote total was?

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Speaker 7: I don't, And I do know that this is a

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Speaker 7: piece of reporting from my colleague Don Van Natta, who

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Speaker 7: who we worked on the story together. Belichick was expecting

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Speaker 7: that he was going to get forty nine votes, like privately,

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Speaker 7: that was his expectation that he would get forty nine votes,

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Speaker 7: and obviously he didn't come close to forty And I

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Speaker 7: think that that's pretty interesting. And again how that happened

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Speaker 7: is really difficult, Like it wasn't like the Hall of

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Speaker 7: Fame wanted us to break this story yesterday.

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Speaker 1: They didn't, And a lot of the voters.

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Speaker 7: Didn't know that Belichick hadn't gotten in. You see a

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Speaker 7: lot of their reactions on social media, and they were

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Speaker 7: blowing up Don and I his phones for sure, saying

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Speaker 7: like this is an embarrassment for all of us. We

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Speaker 7: had no idea that Belichick didn't get in.

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Speaker 1: You know, I said the only I was told by

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Speaker 1: my producer the only Baseball Hall of Fame inductee to

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Speaker 1: get one hundred percent of the vote was Mariano Rivera,

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Speaker 1: And I said, it's not because he was the most productive,

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Speaker 1: it's because he was great and the most humble, gracious

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Speaker 1: human being that's arguably ever played. It does matter. We're

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Speaker 1: all in a people business, and Bill held grudges to

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Speaker 1: this day and can be petty, and maybe there's a

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Speaker 1: voter that was I do think when you build up walls,

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Speaker 1: you may lose a voter or too that you don't

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Speaker 1: want to hear that. You know, football doesn't have a

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Speaker 1: morals clause like baseball, But yeah, people are human. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think that probably cost him a couple

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Speaker 1: of votes.

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Speaker 7: No, well, my guess would be that there wasn't someone

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Speaker 7: who was going to vote for him who didn't vote

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Speaker 7: for him because of that, But it may have not

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Speaker 7: you know, it may have given some people the impetus

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Speaker 7: to say, hey, let's vote for Roger Craig and Elsie

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Speaker 7: Greenwood and robber Craft, right, because again, I think the

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Speaker 7: assumption among the voters was that Belichick was going to

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Speaker 7: get in, and so this result was as surprising for

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Speaker 7: them as it was for the rest of us. You know,

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Speaker 7: Bill Belichick was called by the Hall of Fame on

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Speaker 7: Friday as like a courtesy call to say that, you know,

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Speaker 7: you didn't get in. You know, don't come to Santa

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Speaker 7: Clara and wait around for a knock on your hotel door.

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Speaker 7: It's not going to happen. And I think that, like,

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Speaker 7: he was certainly disappointed by that, you know, as one

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Speaker 7: could expect, because again, it wasn't just the narrative that

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Speaker 7: you know, he's clearly a first ballot Hall of Famer,

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Speaker 7: it's that he himself expected that he would get at

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Speaker 7: least forty nine votes.

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Speaker 1: One more question. Two minutes you talked to Sean Payton

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Speaker 1: after the loss. He got beat up a lot, maybe

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Speaker 1: deservedly so, for the fourth down call. I didn't mind

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Speaker 1: going for it. I did not like a rollout to

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Speaker 1: a backup quarterback. Boe Nick's rolling out is different than

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Speaker 1: Jarret Stidham rolling out. What did he say?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: I spent a lot of time with Sean Payton. I mean,

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Speaker 7: you know, I was in his office at the next

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Speaker 7: to the locker room in the stadium when he walked

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Speaker 7: in after the game, and I mean he was a

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Speaker 7: weathered and beaten and somewhat in shock person, and he said,

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Speaker 7: you know, I can't believe we lost that game.

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Speaker 4: And the first thing he said was he goes that

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Speaker 4: fourth down.

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Speaker 7: And you know, about twenty minutes later, I did talk

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Speaker 7: to him about that, and I think that, like he

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Speaker 7: kind of philosophically was where you are. I think that

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Speaker 7: he wanted to go for The Broncos have generally, you know,

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Speaker 7: each team has different metrics or philosophies when it comes

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Speaker 7: to first downs. The Broncos have a general philosophy that

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Speaker 7: if you drive down the field and you're moving the ball,

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Speaker 7: which they were, you go for it. If you got

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Speaker 7: the ball off a turnover, you take the free points.

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Speaker 7: So they were moving the ball. Sean had called a

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Speaker 7: run and the defense that they came out in surprised him,

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Speaker 7: so he called a timeout and he switched to a pass,

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Speaker 7: and that's where I think he made the mistake. I think,

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Speaker 7: and I think that he regrets the rollout pass and

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Speaker 7: he wishes that he had just stuck with the play

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Speaker 7: call that they had before, or or by the way,

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Speaker 7: gone to the line tried to draw them off sides

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Speaker 7: if they had failed kick the field. I think those

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Speaker 7: are the things he's thinking about now. But when I

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Speaker 7: talked to him, I didn't sense a lot of regret

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Speaker 7: from going forward on fourth down right there. He told me,

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Speaker 7: he goes, I wanted it to be fourteen to nothing.

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Speaker 7: You know, I think that what he regrets is what

430
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 7: happened after the time out and the fact that they

431
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 7: and this is you know, look, it's not just Sean

432
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 7: Payton's fault. Mike Raebel, they had studied the Patriots defenses

433
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 7: on short yardage in the red zone and they were

434
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 7: mostly a man demand defense, and they came out and

435
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 7: played zone surprised the Broncos, and then that play had

436
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 7: no chance because of it.

437
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: Seth Wickersham, senior writer, ESPN been there more than two decades.

438
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: He always joins us on late notice. Great stuff on

439
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: Belichick and Peyton. Thank you so much, Seth. I appreciate it,

440
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: my pleasure man. Great to see you as always. All right, yeah,

441
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: there is there are just a lot of things. So

442
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: much of Hall of Fame voting. You know, everybody wants

443
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 1: to now blow it up and start over. By and large,

444
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: the people in the Hall of Fames deserve to be

445
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 1: in Hall of Fame. There's every hall of fame. It

446
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: could be the culinary Hall of Fame, if there is

447
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: such a thing. There's some chef who is nice to

448
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: people and you know, didn't make the greatest food. Okay,

449
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: there's always those kind of on the margins people that

450
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: get into Hall of Fames. I think they overwhelmingly eventually

451
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: get it right. We just don't like the timing of this.

452
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: We don't love the timing of it. Bill Belichick is

453
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: getting in and he may have gotten thirty nine. He

454
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: may have been one vote shy. This wasn't zero to fifty.

455
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: Nobody gave him a vote. I'm pretty sure of that.

456
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: Hour two NET.

457
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays

458
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 2: in noon eastern nin am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio

459
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 2: FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

460
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: Well, it's been the story of the day. Bill Belichick,

461
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: who will get into the Hall of Fame. But it

462
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 1: shocked a lot of people that he did not get in.

463
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: Now we've talked about this today. The strange thing about

464
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame voting is they just we the voting,

465
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: so now coaches can get in one year after they

466
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: leave the sport players doesn't matter. If you're the greatest

467
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: player in the world, you got to wait five years.

468
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 1: But we said earlier Don shul is the winningest coach ever,

469
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 1: he had to wait five years for the record. Bill Walsh,

470
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: arguably the most innovative coach ever, did not get in

471
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: the first time he was eligible. Vince Lombardi didn't, and

472
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: Joe Gibbs, who won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks,

473
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: did not. But there's a sense with Belichick. I mean,

474
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: come on, he's got this cachet of rings, and again

475
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: I would have voted him in. I get it. But

476
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: my argument is when you start looking at people who

477
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: didn't get in and they had to wait five years

478
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: to begin with, our next guest is somebody that waited

479
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: far too long. One of the great coaches of all time.

480
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: Jimmy Johnson the Hall of Famer. Fox Sports is now

481
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: joining us lide down as you know in the Keys,

482
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: so listen. I would have voted him in. But my

483
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: take is, when a Lombardi or Walsh, or a Joe

484
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: Gibbs or a Jimmy Johnson or a Parcels who won

485
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: a Super Bowl with Jeff Hostetler and Sims, can you

486
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: not argue, well, those guys had to wait, Why can't Bill?

487
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: Isn't that a legit argument?

488
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 4: No, it's not.

489
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 3: You're completely wrong, Colin, because coaches are a lot older

490
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 3: than players, and you'd like to get the coach in

491
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 3: before he's dead, you know. And so you know, because

492
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 3: of the age of coaches, it's not like you and

493
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 3: they're going to retire and you know when they're thirty one,

494
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 3: they're going to retire when they're sixty five. And so

495
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 3: because of the difference in the age, you know, the

496
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 3: coaches really need to go in, you know, really before

497
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 3: they get to the point where they can't enjoy it.

498
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: You know, when you were elected into the Hall of Fame,

499
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: it was live on Fox TV, and you were not

500
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: only emotional, so was everybody that works with you, because

501
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: you've been at Fox, You've ingratiated yourself to a lot

502
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: of people. And Bill didn't get along with the Crafts.

503
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 1: I mean he's had he'd never gotten along with the media.

504
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: I know that shouldn't matter, but stuff like that in

505
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: life does matter. What about the whole pushback that you

506
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: know Bill's going to be in a year, but you

507
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,479
Speaker 1: know he poked the media in the ribs and some

508
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: of those guys vote and he just shut him off

509
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: and built up walls. What about that argument?

510
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 3: Well, I don't really think I've had three hours sleep

511
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: ever since the news came out last night, because it's

512
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 3: so wrong. You know, look at the accolades, you know,

513
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 3: look at all the division wins, look at eight Super Bowls,

514
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 3: six him as a head coach, second all time winning

515
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 3: as coach in history. And so I'm not going to

516
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 3: talk about the accolades. I'm just going to say, Okay,

517
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 3: why did he not go in? I'm searching my own mind.

518
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 3: Why did he not go in? Did Craft because him

519
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 3: and Kraft were at odds at one another?

520
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 4: Did he have an influence?

521
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 3: Did some of the media have an influence because he

522
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: didn't give him an interview. He wasn't the most pleasant

523
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 3: to the media when he coached.

524
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,239
Speaker 4: You just don't know, you know.

525
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: Some of them used the excuse of spygate, which is

526
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 3: totally ridiculous. Every team in the league before they had

527
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 3: the electronic communication from sideline to the field, every team

528
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 3: in the league tried to steal the opponent's signals, whether

529
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: or not it be an assistant coach studying the opponent

530
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 3: on how he was signaling, whether or not they're doing

531
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 3: one thing.

532
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 4: We actually picked it up from Kansas City.

533
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 3: Howard Mud was a great offensive line coach and they

534
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 3: had some outtanding teams. But he was at Kansas City

535
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 3: and Scott told us, says, here's how we do it.

536
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 3: We actually filmed the opponent's signal caller. Then we match

537
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 3: it up with the film with their signals, and so

538
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 3: I said, hey, that's a great idea.

539
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 4: We tried doing it. We were horrible at it.

540
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 3: It really took up too much time because he's only

541
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 3: got a few.

542
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 4: Seconds that you can get it in. But we watched

543
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 4: Kansas City.

544
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: The offensive guard will look over at Howard Mudd on

545
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 3: the sideline and he had given him a signal whether

546
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 3: or not he was going to be man coverage or

547
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 3: his own coverage or a blitz, et cetera, et cetera. So,

548
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 3: like I said, we tried it. You know, we didn't

549
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 3: do very good at it. We stopped doing it after

550
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks. But you know, teams have been

551
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 3: trying this, you know, ever since. You know, they had

552
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 3: signals before they did the electronic communication there.

553
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: You're not the only person that thinks Robert Kraft did

554
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: not want to go in with Belichick. And there's I mean, listen,

555
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: you know better than anybody, owners want to get their way.

556
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: Owners are very close with Roger Goodell because they're his boss.

557
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: And I mean, do you think around the league, people

558
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: in your space, legendary coaches think Craft has a lot

559
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: to do with this.

560
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 3: Well, it could be because yeah, you know, you know,

561
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 3: for instance, there's a lot of media that said they

562
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 3: want to have access to the New England Patriots.

563
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 4: Well, who's going to give them access of Craft?

564
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 3: Uh? And so if there is some tension between Belichick

565
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 3: and Kraft and maybe Craft, but you know he wants

566
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 3: to go in before Belichick goes in. And I don't

567
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: know this for a fact. I mean, there are a

568
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 3: lot of different factors. But for some reason, you know,

569
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 3: these people, ten or eleven or twelve voters did not

570
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 3: vote for Belichick, And with his accolades and all of

571
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: the championships, he deserved to go in first ballot, you know,

572
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 3: unanimously and with no one voting against him.

573
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: Do you think he's bothered by it?

574
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 4: Well, I think it hurts him. Yeah, yeah, hey, call it.

575
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: We're all we're all bothered by it. You know, when

576
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 3: you work as hard as coaches work, they're proud of

577
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 3: what they accomplished, you know, and I Bills proud of

578
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 3: what he accomplished at New England.

579
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, yeah, he had a great quarterback. But

580
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 4: how many pro Hall of Fame coaches didn't have a

581
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 4: great quarterback?

582
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: I had Toy Yekman, you know, no had Terry Bradshaw,

583
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 3: Walsh had Joe Montana, you know, own and own, and

584
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 3: so you can't use that excuse and see the other

585
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 3: thing to just knowing Bill personally, Yeah, I don't know

586
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 3: of a single person yourself.

587
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 4: Included, anybody that knows.

588
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 3: The history of the NFL like Bill Belichick, anybody that

589
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 3: ever watched him on TV picking the top hundred players,

590
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 3: in the history of the NFL.

591
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 4: To see the knowledge that he has about the league.

592
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 3: He loves the NFL, he loves the history of the NFL,

593
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 3: and you know it's got to hurt him that he

594
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 3: didn't go first out. I was with him at the

595
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 3: National Championship Game and I walked away and he said.

596
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 4: I hope to see you in the Hall this year.

597
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 3: And you know, I thought it was just going to

598
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 3: be a slam dunk, and so I charted a plane.

599
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 3: I was gonna fly jet up to Canton to see

600
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 3: him go in. Well I canceled that flight.

601
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: I'm not going Yeah, yeah, again, I devoted him in.

602
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: I've spent today saying we can all vent that he

603
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: didn't get in. But let's ad some context on the

604
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: Seth Wickersham bite. Yet, I don't think we have. Seth

605
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: Wickersham's a writer for ESPN. They did change the voting

606
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: methodology this year, and I which is weird, and I

607
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: think all Hall of Fames get a little too personal

608
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: and petty. So here's Seth Wickersham, great writer on Belichick

609
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: and the voting process.

610
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 7: Belichick was expecting that he was going to get forty

611
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 7: nine votes, like privately that was his expectation that he

612
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 7: would get forty nine votes, and obviously he didn't come

613
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 7: close to forty And I think that that's pretty interesting.

614
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 7: And again, how that happened is really difficult. Like it

615
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 7: wasn't like the Hall of Fame wanted us to break

616
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 7: this story yesterday.

617
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 4: They didn't.

618
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 7: And a lot of the voters didn't know that Belichick

619
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 7: hadn't gotten in. You see a lot of their reactions

620
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 7: on social media, and they were blowing up Don and

621
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 7: I s phones for sure, saying like this is an

622
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 7: embarrassment for all of us. We had no idea that

623
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 7: Belichick didn't get in.

624
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, become of the process.

625
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 4: You know, they had, you know, like five candidates and

626
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 4: they pick three of the five.

627
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 3: Well, some of the media might have said, well, it's

628
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 3: a Sam dump that Bill's going in.

629
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: That's right.

630
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 3: So I'm going to go for so and so to

631
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 3: help him get in because I know Bill's going in,

632
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 3: and so it could have been the process of picking

633
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame candidates, but that's still no excuse.

634
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 3: You pick the best you know available. Hey, listen, I'm

635
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 3: a coach, Colin, and you know if a player doesn't

636
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 3: go in, hey, I live with it.

637
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 4: Okay, then you'll get a chance next year.

638
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 3: But I know how great a coach Bill Belichick is well,

639
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 3: and for him not to go in first ballot is wrong.

640
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: What is his greatest asset as a coach when you

641
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: go fishing with him, what he wanted? If you just

642
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: think to yourself, man, he's different.

643
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 4: I'll give you the best and the worst. The best thing.

644
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 3: He is a great situation coach. He's a great fundamental coach.

645
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 3: He coaches all phases, special teams, offense, defense. He's a

646
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 3: great game day coach. He's a great game plan coach.

647
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 3: To go ahead and take away what the opponent does

648
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 3: best and you know, take advantage of that.

649
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 4: He does all of those things. That's what he's good at.

650
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, personnel was hey, Yeah, you could take

651
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 3: him or leave him. He did pretty good with some

652
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 3: of the veterans. Some of his draft picks you're gonna

653
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 3: have questions about. But as a coach, as a pure coach,

654
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 3: he's the best I've ever known.

655
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: Wow, there we go. See we did twelve minutes here

656
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: on Belichick. Who Again, I would have voted for him,

657
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: But I do think it's interesting to just kind of

658
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 1: contextualize all this stuff. Let me ask you one thing

659
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: about the Super Bowl, because you've been in this thing

660
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: and you know the weight. I'm gonna focus on Darnold. Listen,

661
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: he was, he was, He struggled with the Jets, he

662
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: was twenty years old, he didn't have the coach. It

663
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: was man overboard. Are you surprised? Did you think he'd

664
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: go toe to toe and play his best game? Or

665
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: and you were a great You're one of the coaches.

666
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: You may be the best ever at this You are

667
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 1: a great personnel coach. You you could have just said

668
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 1: I don't need a GM, I'm gonna draft. There's maybe

669
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: only two or three coaches ever that could do that.

670
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,479
Speaker 1: So I'm interested in your perspective on Darnold. I thought

671
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 1: he was too damn talented not to win some games.

672
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: He was too talented. Did you or were you shocked

673
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: by what he did?

674
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 3: I agree with you coming out of college there sc

675
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 3: you know, everybody says, okay, if you can cut his

676
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 3: turnovers down, this guy can be a great, great quarterback.

677
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 4: Uh. Two things happened for him quin Seattle.

678
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 3: Uh. I think the experience of what he went through

679
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 3: with the Jets, with Carolina on and on. That experience,

680
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 3: you know, taught him to be more protective with the football.

681
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 3: The second thing, he's part of a great team. He's

682
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 3: got a great defensive team. He doesn't have to carry

683
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 3: that team on his shoulders. At Carolina, he had to

684
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 3: carry that football team. He couldn't do it because he

685
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 3: turned it over. Now he knows he's got a great defense.

686
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 3: He knows that he can be patient, take his time,

687
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 3: take the checkdowns, you know, throw it here every now

688
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 3: and then take a shot, you know, down the field.

689
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 3: So I think the experience that he had and the

690
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 3: team that he's with and the coaching that he's getting

691
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 3: allowed him to be a great player. And hey, Seattle,

692
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 3: right now they look like the favorite in the super Bowl.

693
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 4: Oh they're good.

694
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: Hey, I've got to mention the Miami Hurricanes. It's interesting.

695
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 4: Oh boy, so close.

696
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: So Mario Christobal's reputation forever was great recruiter, but we

697
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: had sort of labeled him as I don't know if

698
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: I love him as a game coach situational coach, but man,

699
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: I like his energy. Man he can build a program.

700
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: I watched them this year and my take on Mario

701
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: as he grew as a coach. Now, a lot of

702
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 1: it is that D line and that O line's good,

703
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: but coaches have a right to grow too, not just

704
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: Sam Darnold and players. Your thoughts on what Mario did,

705
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: because at Oregon the take was it doesn't win big games,

706
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: but he's the hell of a recruiter. I don't know.

707
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,879
Speaker 1: I watched them in close games this year. I thought

708
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: he was I thought he really grew as a coach.

709
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,760
Speaker 4: Well, I think he grew as a coach.

710
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 3: He got a lot better, and you're you're right, he's

711
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 3: a great recruiter. We just signed you know, the top quarterback,

712
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 3: top transfer portal out of Duke here just recently, and

713
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 3: the receiver and got one of the top pass rushers

714
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 3: from Missouri. So we got the players. I think the

715
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 3: two things not only has he gotten better as a

716
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 3: head coach, he's got some outstanding assistance Corey Heatherton, you

717
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,959
Speaker 3: know there as a defensive corter. Nader did a great

718
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 3: job with that defense. If we'd have had that defense

719
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 3: a year ago when we had cam Ward and nobody

720
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 3: would have come close to us. And the other thing

721
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 3: is often chan Dawson is an outstanding offensive coach. So

722
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 3: He's got some outstanding assistant coaches as well. Hey, the

723
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 3: reason I went to the Hall of Fame. I had

724
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,839
Speaker 3: great players and I had great assistant coaches, and so

725
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 3: you gotta if you're gonna win championships, it can't be

726
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 3: one individual.

727
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 4: There's a lot of people involved in that.

728
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Dave Wanstat. You know if you don't

729
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 1: have Wan Stat, Uncle Dave.

730
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 3: They was important to me, North Turner was important to me.

731
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 4: Troy Aiman did a nice little job.

732
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 3: I mean, so, if you're gonna win a championship, it

733
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 3: can't be one individual.

734
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 4: You got to have a team.

735
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 1: Great stuff coach as always, it's wonderful, Senior. I love

736
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: you're fighting for Belichick. You're not sleeping and I love

737
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: that supporting law.

738
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 4: Thanks good talking with you.

739
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, listen, I was taking the train

740
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: in today and my takeaway is I could just vent

741
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: that Belichick should get in, but let's add some let's

742
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: add some context to it. Bill Walsh didn't get in

743
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: first vote, Shoela waited forever, Vince Lombardi didn't get in

744
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: first vote, Joe Gibbs didn't get in, and Belichick's winning

745
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: percentage without Brady is Jerry Glanville had a higher winning percentage. Okay,

746
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: so my take on this is, yeah, of course I

747
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,959
Speaker 1: would have vote build in, but I'm not. I don't.

748
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: I would say I've got a lot of faults. I'm

749
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: not a real grudge holder. I don't give a rip.

750
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: I mean people that don't like me, it makes me laugh.

751
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, whatever, I just don't. I'm not a

752
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: grudge holder. I'm not terribly petty. That's just not my personality.

753
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 1: Some people, you know, they use that as jet fuel.

754
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: That's not my thing. So but I do think when

755
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: you start looking at I said this earlier, is that

756
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: in life, a lot of decisions are made when you're

757
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: not in the room. And Bill alienated a lot of people,

758
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: and you know, you got you gotta have self awareness,

759
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: and no, if I want to get into the Hall

760
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: of Fame, I probably shouldn't go out of my way

761
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: to mock and humiliate people who could vote for me.

762
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: They will all sleep on the couch for a year.

763
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: He's going to get in, obviously,