1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Will Lucas he has black Tech, Green Money. The United 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: States Digital Service or u s DS for short, as 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: an organization within the White House with over two hundred 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: technologist from various disciplines who work in agile teams across 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: government to improve government services for millions of people through 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: technology and design. And today im talking to Florence because Lay, 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: who's the Director of Procurement, which means she's leading teams 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: that determine who the government is going to buy stuff from. 9 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: She leads the team focused on building digital experiences for 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: the American public by modernizing the acquisition process. And previously 11 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: she served as Ahead of Acquisitions for the Defense Digital 12 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: Service unless several teams as a contracting officer with the 13 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: Department of Defense, the National Labor Relations Board, and the 14 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: Department of Health and Human Services, and join again is 15 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: the director of Talent Acquisition and his career has been 16 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: even makes a public service and talent acquisition strategy. He's 17 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: currently Director of Talent Acquisition for the u s DS, 18 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: having joined the organization initially in ten under President Obama 19 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: to make sure the team that rescued healthcare dot gov 20 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: remained fully staffed with top talent from the private sector. 21 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: Let's get to the conversation because I'm gonna starting here 22 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: with Jordan's UM, some people have the idea that working 23 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: for the government in the tech role maybe you know, 24 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: less disruptive or ambitious and endeavor than they might be 25 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: working for a startup or like a Google per se, 26 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: and UM, what is your pitch to folks when they 27 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: have that preoccupation. You know, whether it be working directly 28 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: for the White House or for the government, you know 29 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: that you're still able to sell them on making an 30 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: impact in that they will still be able to be disruptive. UM. Yeah, good, 31 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: good question. I would say that, UM, I mean, what 32 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: is more ambitious than some of the stuff that we do, right? 33 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's plenty of reasons. There's nothing wrong 34 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: with the Google or you know, there's nothing wrong with 35 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: creating software and making money from it. However, when you 36 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: look at some of the projects that we've been a 37 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: part of, UM, including refugee resettlement it UM, solving veterans, 38 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: being able to sign up for healthcare. UM, you know, 39 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: the healthcare dot dot gov. Twenty million people are now 40 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: able to get healthcare because of our intervention. I would 41 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: say that, UM, I don't know if there's anything that's 42 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: more ambitious than that. Uh. But now financially, a lot 43 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: of these other places can um can pay you a 44 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: little bit more than the government, although our salaries are 45 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: not that bad. Um. But uh, if that is your 46 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: definition of ambition, then maybe usd S wouldn't be the 47 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 1: right place to come. So actually, I mean I want 48 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: to jump in kind of your pre that question, like 49 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: do you have to know somebody to get a job 50 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: at the White House? Jordan's how does this work? Of 51 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: course not how do you position yourself to getting a 52 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: job in the building. So you go to USDs dot 53 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: gov slash joint I'll say it again, us DS dot 54 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: gov slash joint and you apply there and the application 55 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: is actually very much uh it takes about five minutes, um, 56 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: upload your resume you might you know, put your linked 57 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: in in there, and then you were viewed by a 58 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: subject matter expert. So, um, you don't have to know anyone. 59 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: But if you find me on LinkedIn, I'm happy to 60 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: be someone that you know and I can go in 61 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: uh go more in depth into into that. But uh 62 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: www dot USDs dot gov s last I love I 63 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: love that. And in Florence, there was an executive order 64 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: put out a bit of goo. Um. I'm gonna give 65 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: you the title of it, so to recall your memory 66 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: of Executive Order on Advancing Racial Equity and Support for 67 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: Underserved Communities through the Federal Government. It's a long title there, 68 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: but you know this is what we do as we 69 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: read well, um, this this has implications for access to 70 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: education beyond high school and continuing completing those programs, things 71 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: like investing resources to help advance civil rights um, and 72 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: even procure procurement you know, so where the government buys 73 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: from small business or big or medium so a big businesses. 74 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: How do black own organizations and companies uh doing this work, 75 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: whether they be you know, creating or improving schools, doing 76 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: network working towards justice, or even working to secure federal contracts? 77 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: Like what should they know about that order that is 78 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: getting overlooked perhaps in you know, on our social discourse 79 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: about the order and about what teeth it has to 80 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: to actually make a difference where hurdles existed before. Sure, 81 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: thanks for that question. So I know that executive order 82 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: really well, long title at all, um, and I would 83 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: encourage all um, small businesses, medium, etcetera. Minority owned businesses 84 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: to take a look at the fine details within that 85 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: executive order. It is long, but you can do like 86 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: a quick control fine for procurement and contract opportunities. And 87 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: within that executive order really focuses the different agencies executive 88 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: agencies around how to improve our engagement with small businesses 89 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: and special really underserved small businesses UM. And it gets 90 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: all of the people who are in procurement to focus 91 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: on what do we need to do to extend the 92 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: different opportunities that exist. So those opportunities get started through 93 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: market research opportunities. So what do we need to do 94 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: in the government to ensure that more underserved businesses are 95 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: engaged in the market research that we do, because market 96 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: research will start the process for a lot of procurements. 97 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: So when we the government put out something that's called 98 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: like a request for information or any kind of engagement 99 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: where we're saying, hey, we're looking for partners in this 100 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: kind of effort, whatever the effort is UM. In our world, 101 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: it's software development, but there can be so many other 102 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: services that people provide UM, and we want those businesses 103 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: to engage in the market research effort to reach back 104 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: to us. And part of that executive order. One of 105 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: the pushes for us in the government is how do 106 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: we make sure that we are not being overly burdensome 107 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: two small businesses when we're asking for things. So if, 108 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: as an example, if we are asking for people to 109 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: engage in market research efforts, we don't want you to 110 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: to turn in a research a large research people a 111 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: hundred pages deep. Right, A lot of small businesses don't 112 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,119 Speaker 1: have the bandwidth or the resources to you know, write 113 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: some lengthy document that may or may not mean a 114 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: whole lot to us within the government. At the end 115 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: of the day, what do we want the small businesses 116 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: out there to engage with us in a meaningful way? 117 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: So we get to know what are your capabilities, what 118 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: what who are the who are your constituents, what are 119 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: the problems that you like to solve and that you're 120 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: best suited to solve um And that goes all the 121 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: way through to award. We want to understand what are 122 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: the different pain points that small businesses have in working 123 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: with the government. And so I encourage all of those 124 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: business owners out there or you know on spreneurs, people 125 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: who are just thinking about how do they do business 126 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: with the government, to read that and reread that, and 127 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: then reach out to people within their network who have 128 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: done business with the government to figure out what are 129 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: the different opportunities where can I find them? And I 130 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: have a bunch of links that I can share with 131 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: you will to drop in onto your site if you 132 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: have it UM if you can. But there are plenty 133 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: of places where small business and entrepreneurs can go to 134 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: look at what opportunities do exist. But the thrust of 135 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: that executive order is we are really being intentional about 136 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: how to get underserved UM communities and businesses to engage 137 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: more with the government. All of our taxpayer dollars right 138 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: for sure, we want to make sure that people people 139 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: have access to them. Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned, like, 140 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: you know, the research paper length of like a response 141 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: to an information requests. So because I had brought this 142 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: up to even at the state level, you know, when 143 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: you're going to apply for or you know, position on 144 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: RFP versus a request that was put out. You know, 145 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: sometimes a small business is a small business doesn't have 146 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: a person dedicated to spend three weeks to respond to 147 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: the actual business request. So you mentioned it from the 148 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: perspective of an r F. I but can you talk 149 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: about that how you're working at least and what things? 150 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: Why is it so long in the first place, Why 151 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: is it so much information that you need in the 152 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: first place to be able to get in the door 153 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: to a government contract. So there are I can answer 154 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: that in a variety of ways, but one we have 155 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: been doing a lot of work on my team. UM. 156 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: I am director of the procurement side of the house 157 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: at USDs, and so we've been working a lot with 158 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: different agencies on how to streamline that acquisition process. And 159 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 1: you know, we talk a lot about show me, don't 160 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: tell me, UM, in terms of like what your capabilities are. 161 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: So when we when we work with agencies to issue 162 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: solicitations or request for quotes, UM, we really tried to 163 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: focus on that business coming to the table to tell 164 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: us and show us how they how, what is there, 165 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: what put their best foot forward, and show us why 166 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 1: they are the best one suited to get this job, 167 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: to get this particular award, UM, versus the you know, 168 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 1: fifty page a hundred page fifty page document that maybe 169 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 1: you know, pulled together by a consultancy and not necessarily 170 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: that that business. We want those the engineers or whoever 171 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: is actually going to show up on day one, or 172 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: that team whoever is going to show up on day 173 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: one to actually be there to have a conversation with 174 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: us UM. But there are there are a lot of 175 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: rules and regulations tied around federal procurement, and so there 176 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: are requirements that we have in terms of a vendor, 177 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: a contractor showing us and telling actually telling us by 178 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 1: paper or by you know, in digital form, what their 179 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: capabilities are. But we work hard to make sure that 180 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: that is not an onerous task. So when we go 181 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: through UM issuing a solicitation, it will be a request 182 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: for hey, give us ten to fifteen pages of what 183 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: your capabilities are and what what your solution is to 184 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: this particular problem. UM and men will work with them 185 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: on what the showing part means. So we'll do like 186 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: co challenge UM, show us artifacts from your past that 187 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: you've built, what have you successfully built and for who 188 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: UM in order for us to get to have some 189 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: idea of what they've actually done in order for us 190 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: to evaluate them against their peers. It speaks speaking directly 191 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: to that you know, showing versus telling, did you find 192 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: or do you continue to find? You know, particularly black 193 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: owned companies. You know, we heard all about you know, 194 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: the issue with them getting p PP relief because we 195 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: just a lot of us just didn't have our documents 196 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: in order. Um do you do you continue to find 197 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: black owned organizations, black owned companies struggling to get their 198 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: documentation in order to be able to you know, position 199 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: um to your proposal requests. I have not found that myself. 200 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: I think when by the time that vendors and we 201 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: do a lot of a lot of the contracts that 202 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: we have worked with agencies to award are two small 203 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: businesses and so a number of them do like mentor 204 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: protege programs with the s b A in order for 205 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: them to understand what what is the baseline what are 206 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: the baseline requirements that you need to know in order 207 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: to do business with the government. So by the time 208 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: our solicitations and requests for quotes go out, they are 209 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: well prepared to answer the mail. Right, so they know 210 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: by then when we've done, when we've gone through the 211 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: market research effort and we've called folks forward to say, hey, 212 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: these are this is a draft of what we are 213 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: we are seeking, right, they all know they'll have some 214 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: idea of this is not going to be you know, 215 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: a fire drill of fifty page, fifty pages or a 216 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: hundred pages. We are our style is to come forward. 217 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: We want you to bring bring your best foot forward 218 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: and not throw fifty pages at us. We really want 219 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: you to show us what you what your capabilities are. 220 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: And Joan, you talked a little bit about this, you know, 221 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: particularly you know, the salary differentiation between working and you know, 222 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: the government versus working at you know a fame company 223 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: of Facebook, Apple, Amazon, you know, Netflix, Google, Um, can 224 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: you talk about like the like what is it like 225 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: to work in the White House as a tech person? Like, 226 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: you know, is this some somewhere I'm coming in in 227 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: a two piece suit every day? And like, you know, 228 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: the you gotta folks that you're trying to recruit who 229 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: are used to getting, you know, the free kitchen, Like 230 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: you just go get your run of the kitchen. They 231 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: make a whole situation down there's doughnuts and Graham crackers 232 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: and all these things. How do you compare to that 233 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: to working in the White House but just working in 234 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: the government in tech? Okay, there was a there was 235 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: a couple of pieces that first this colored shirt that 236 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: I put on is very much meat dressing up. UM. 237 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: In the office, you'll find a lot of folks that 238 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: are in hoodies. Now, obviously if you're meeting with like 239 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: cabinet members, you might dress up and put on the suit. 240 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: But as far as the dress code, which is you know, 241 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 1: a differing levels of importance depending on who you are. UM, 242 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: the dress code is still very much in line with 243 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: the tech UM tech organizations. We do not have things 244 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: like massage chairs or you know, pods or coconut water. UM. 245 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: In the fridge, we do have some diet pepsi and 246 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: there was some cold that I saw, UM just playing 247 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: potato chips. Everybody ate all the barbecue and this, you 248 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: know in the sea, salt and vinegar. So we've got 249 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: playing you know. So so it's not as much there. UM. 250 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: And so, like I said, like there's lots of reasons 251 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: why people go into technology, I find that there's kind 252 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: of three three buckets. UM. One is maybe you want 253 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: to build a robot that can fall in love, or 254 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: a self driving car or or things of that nature. UM. 255 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: Now that's that's not necessarily us. Sometimes you go into it, 256 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: people go to make as much money as you can. UM. 257 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: That is certainly not us. But I think a lot 258 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: of people go into technology because technology is a vehicle 259 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: to help as many people and solve as big a 260 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: problems as possible. UM. And so that is generally what 261 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: kind of drives folks you talk about. Kind of the 262 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: culture is the question that you're asking about, and so UM. 263 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: The thing I love about it is that everybody, the 264 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: sample size of folks that come to USDs are people 265 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: that want to help and want to work on something 266 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: beyond themselves UM. And so that creates a culture of collaboration, kindness, empathy, 267 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: UM while still in hoodies, eating some plaint potato chips 268 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: instead of barbecue working UM. And I think we've got 269 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: a good UM we've been. I think we've got a 270 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: pretty good representation in the organization UM from different groups, 271 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: well represented and underrepresented. It's always a bicycle that you 272 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: want to ride. But I think we we're blowing tech 273 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: typical check out of the water, UM, blowing most organizations 274 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: out of the water as far as having good representations. 275 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: So it really is truly a collaborative environment UM where 276 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: I think, uh, it makes up for some of those 277 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: other things you might find somewhere like trying to take 278 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: out competitors venture capital issues with uh, you know, trying 279 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: to cater to the shareholders or golden handcuffs. I think 280 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: it feels better. And there's something about like I spent 281 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: eight hours a day and it helped U. It helped 282 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: people in the world that we're most vulnerable UM for 283 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: worth at least you know, a couple of dollars per 284 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: hour exact. Yeah, I mean, I'm glad you mentioned think 285 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: about like venture capital to where you're not really you know, 286 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: trying to build a product to be able to take 287 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: to vcs and hopefully get them funded. But how does 288 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: it work in the respect of you know, is there's 289 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: like this infinitem budget that we get to go build 290 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: stuff with, Like how does how does you know you 291 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: how do you determine, you know, what a particular project 292 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: will get, what level it will be fund Today there 293 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: is no such thing as an infant and budget I 294 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: think anywhere but in the government. These are these are 295 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: programmatic dollars. So they have come down from Congress to say, hey, 296 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: there's a as an example with um infant formula, right 297 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: there was an infant formula crisis. We need to make 298 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: sure that babies who need families that need this infant 299 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: formula um nowhere to find it and get it as 300 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: soon as possible. So there will be funding that is 301 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: allocated for that. And so we will work with the 302 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: agency working on that particular problem set with those budget dollars, right, 303 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: so we don't get to we don't get to assign 304 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,359 Speaker 1: the budget dollars. We are working with the agency that 305 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: that is that has that particular um budget line. So 306 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: we but we are very scrappy with with the budget 307 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: that exists because we're working with the engineers that exist 308 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: within our organization and as well as our federal partners 309 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: who are working on whatever problem said that and and 310 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: issue that we're working on, you know, within the different 311 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: teams UM. But it the budgets can go from like 312 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: very small by very small I can it can mean 313 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: you know, under a hundred thousand dollars to well into 314 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: the millions, depending on what the problems that is and 315 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: what agency is working on it and what the urgency is. 316 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: So it really it's one of those where it depends 317 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: well I like that and John, particularly because you're working 318 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: on recruiting, you know, without getting into the politics of things, 319 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: like you know, are these term jobs. And what I 320 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: mean by that is, if I'm recruited to come work, 321 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: you know in this office, am I there for this administration? Should? 322 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: Or am I there? Or do I just have a 323 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: job until I find somebody. I just don't want to 324 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: work for anybody anymore. Okay, Yeah, I don't know how 325 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: to answer that without getting in the weeds. But we 326 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: hire an authority that's called schedule a subpart are UM. 327 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: Not something that I expect somebody to kind of keep 328 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: with them unless you're in kind of the um government 329 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: HR world. UM. But the way it works is that 330 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: as you it's an appointment. That is what they call 331 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: two plus two so UM. Generally that means that you're UM. 332 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: If you get an offer, you're allowed to come and 333 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: stay in the government for four years. UM. So you don't. 334 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: We are non political, so we don't necessarily it's not 335 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 1: like uh, as the administration leaves, you know, kind of 336 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: everyone goes. So UM. I have, for instance, I actually 337 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: left and came back. So I've worked under all I've 338 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: worked under Obama, I worked on the Trump and now 339 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: currently work under the current administration. UM. And you know, 340 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: there's definitely everybody has their own kind of personal politics 341 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: and beliefs. UM. I found that no matter who you 342 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,239 Speaker 1: want as your president or whether you agree with them 343 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: or disagree, Similar to other government agencies, the military, UM, 344 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: you're still serving the American people. UM. So going back 345 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: to the your question, UM, people generally can come for 346 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: up to four years. There's some nuances to it, UM, 347 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: and you can stay UM. And so many people traversed 348 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: multiple administrations because the people that ultimately UM received the 349 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: help were everyday citizens UM, people on Medicaid or Medicare, UM, veterans, 350 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: people that had been denied UM, been denied benefits based 351 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: on things that were unfair and so UM. For some people, 352 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: who is in the White House at the time, UH 353 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: will either make it more appealing or prohibitive to work 354 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: with us UM I personally, and I know a lot 355 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: of folks that have landed on the American people. UH 356 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: really don't UH stop existing based on who is in 357 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: the White House. So UM, if you came today, you 358 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: could come for four years, UM, Which could you know? 359 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: Which could mean that you're serving under one or two 360 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: presidents UM, depending on how some things shake out and influence. 361 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: I mentioned something Jordan's about like this o versus tell 362 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: when you're trying to sell to the government. You know 363 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: there they do care about what you tell them, but 364 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: they want to see your portfolio, right, is it? It 365 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: doesn't work the same way when I'm trying to get 366 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: a job, Like if I learned how to program on 367 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: an online boot camp, could I get a job with 368 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: the with the United States government or even the White 369 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: House more specifically? That's yes, we don't. UM. We have 370 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: a very very embedded policy not to UM to just 371 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: go viability, right, So we don't really take into account 372 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: which college you went to. UM, we don't really even 373 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: take into account whether you're a specialist in this particular 374 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: language or that particular language. UM. What we want our 375 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: folks that have UM. There's a certain amount of experience 376 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: that we want people to have. Generally, UM, we want 377 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: people that have worked on something UM without just all 378 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: of the resources in the world. So you mentioned kind 379 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: of like UM, a Google and a Facebook as far 380 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: as people coming from there, and a lot of times 381 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: we want folks that have maybe been there and seem 382 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: kind of like the optimal environment. But then we also 383 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: really need someone that's has that experience but then has 384 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: also done it in a very scrappy environment. Maybe it's 385 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: a startup, maybe it was in uh, in a place 386 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: where they didn't have all the resources. And so how 387 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 1: somebody learned the whether it was boot camp, re education, 388 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: self taught, UM is irrelevant. The experience piece is really UM. 389 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: We do want someone who's had some successes, right UM. 390 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: And then almost as important as those some failures that 391 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: they hate, UM that they got some grit from UM. 392 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: But UH So that's a long winded way of saying, yeah, 393 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: boot camp, UH, learned at night, learned on your own 394 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: with a book, UM, pretty irrelevant. We we UM try 395 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: to ask the questions where somebody can show their UM, 396 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: show their abilities, UM, and and then we try to 397 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: calibrate it so that UM it is uh it really 398 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: just focuses on that and really doesn't take into account 399 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: any of those more superficial things. In Florence, I was 400 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: reading an article I actually might have been listening to 401 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: an article that you were on and and and the 402 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: question was posed about government efficiency, and UM, we think 403 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: about things and from the perspective of and I don't 404 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: want to make an assumption here, but I imagine things 405 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: that are not like coming from the top of that, 406 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: maybe it's the president pushing through healthcare dot govn that 407 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: some things that are maybe on the fringes may take 408 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: longer to get through just because of government bureaucracy or whatever. 409 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to make some assumptions there. Maybe you 410 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: can clear that up. But you your response to the 411 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: question about efficiency was, you know, it's all based on us. 412 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: You know, it's people as efficient as we want to 413 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: make it work, it can work. And so in in 414 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: discussing how we can be more efficient in getting things 415 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: through the pipeline of you know, from concept to delivery, 416 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: can government truly be more efficient? Though? Like, like what 417 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: happens that it becomes less efficient? Let's answer that first. 418 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: I believe the government can be way more efficient, right Like, 419 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: there are so many aspects to how we do our 420 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: work that I think, you know, if I had a 421 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: magic wand I'd say let's move this thing faster or 422 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: you know, whatever it is that that people you know 423 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: will have some pain point or concern or or issues 424 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: with um. But there are reasons why why the government 425 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: will be slower than your your you know, tech company 426 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: out there to provide some sort of service or deliver 427 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: something one are our customer base, for lack of a 428 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: better word, is all of the public. So we have 429 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: to take all of the public into consideration, and so 430 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: we don't we're not taking a slice of the public 431 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: and focusing all of our efforts and skills and everything 432 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: towards one particular group. And so therefore we can kind 433 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: of ignore the rest and blinders on the rest and 434 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: just delivered directly to that group. We have to think 435 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: of absolutely all of the edge cases right in order 436 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: to make sure that deliver is going to your grandmother 437 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: who may not have cell service, to your teenager who's 438 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: who is you know, running circles around grandmother. Two, you 439 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: know veterans who are wounded, to like everyone across the board, 440 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: and you know caretakers. So when we have when we're 441 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: taking all of those concerns and and all those people 442 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: in consideration, it does naturally slowed things down a bit 443 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: while because we have to think through all of the potentials, 444 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: all the potential issues in delivering a particular service. UM. 445 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that we can't be faster than 446 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: what we are where we are now, UM in delivering 447 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: some things. I think there are aspects to how we 448 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: do our work around UM bringing great talent to the 449 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: table to make sure that we have that we are 450 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: leveraging the talent in government as much as possible, because 451 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: there are some bureaucratic processes that I've seen an my 452 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: career where I'm like, we are doing that because we 453 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: did that twenty years ago. It definitely can be challenged 454 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: and pushed in order to be made more efficient. And 455 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: we have excellent federal Civil Service workers today who are 456 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: making those changes as and they're doing in a collaboration 457 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: with people who we need that are listening potentially to 458 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: this podcast who are like, I have ideas on how 459 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: to make this more efficient. Can I come and join 460 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: you know, USDs or any of the other agencies out 461 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: there to help think through the different problems to make 462 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: those things more efficient. But I think at the end 463 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: of the day, we need people who can think outside 464 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: the box and think and know how government works as 465 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: well people who don't know how government works, and people 466 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: who who have been in this bureaucratic machinery as well 467 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: who can work together to make it more efficient. You know, UM, 468 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: we often shake our fists as some of the biggest 469 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: tech companies who could do better at hiring women in 470 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: black candidates who are just as skilled in as allented. UM. 471 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: And it would likely be naive for me to say 472 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: that hiring for tech roles in the federal federal government 473 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: is purely based on Marrior And I don't know you 474 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: guys can answer that. UM, But how are you working 475 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: to create you know, you know, more open pathways, um, 476 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: to create success stories in the federal government? You know 477 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: that federal tech workforce for minority candidates. I'll start with 478 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: Jordans on this one. UM. I mean I think when 479 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: you the way we approached it, UM, we have UM. 480 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: For instance, you know we have currently four black directors 481 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: the UM with majority women in leadership UM. Lots of 482 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: other lots of other categories as well. UM. And I 483 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: guess so one of the things that I want to 484 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: flip on its head is that you said create the opportunities. UM. 485 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: The opportunities just should be there. Like every every person 486 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: that we had that made it to that upper echelon 487 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: or that's weird, were um, but like to the to 488 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: that leadership role, right, it was a fair and balanced 489 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: you know process to select that person, right. And so 490 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: then the way we got there was just making sure 491 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: that we had representation at at all different layers, right, 492 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: and so in order to do that, we have put 493 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: in a lot of work to make sure that UM 494 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: our organization, to the best of our ability, UM as 495 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: a as a group has those folks in the door. UM. 496 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 1: And so it's a map. So what the ways we've 497 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: done to it is the way we've done it is 498 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: by going to where those populations are, right. You can't 499 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: just wait for them to come to you. So our 500 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: technical recruiters are very geared towards eight percent of their 501 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: time is balancing out market forces. Now, to some degree 502 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: that balancing out market forces is okay, they're the supply 503 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: and demand of tech workers is out of you know, 504 00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: out of sync, right, and you can look at some 505 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: of the you know, the salary inflation that occurs as 506 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: evidence of that. But one of the other ways the 507 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: market forces are out of whack is that UM, if 508 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: you wait for people to just apply to you, UM, 509 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: apply at your website and you don't go to those 510 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: places both UM, you know, public spaces like this and 511 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: one on one UM, then they won't be in the door. 512 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: And if they're not in the door, then they're not 513 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: going to make it to those UM, to those to 514 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: those elevated roles. Right, So so there's a little bit 515 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: of a drive there. The other piece is UM after you, 516 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: and that's really kind of looking at diversity. But after 517 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: you look at diversity, UM, do you have equity, inclusion, 518 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: accessibility and belonging. And so I would say that that 519 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: is the second piece UM is because for a stretch 520 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: of time, we would have folks come and then they 521 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't stay because they didn't feel supported UM. And so 522 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: we've put in a lot of work to make sure 523 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: that once people come, UM, they're not only just in 524 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: the door, they're not just in junior level roles UM, 525 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: but that their heard uh, that they feel like they 526 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: belong and that UM they're always listened to. And then 527 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: when you have that, it is actually just kind of uh, 528 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: it's not making an opportunity. It the cream rises to 529 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: the top. And I think that that's what has happened 530 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: UM at U s DS UM now if you UM. 531 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: And then basically the other philosophy that we've looked at 532 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: is if our if our enerview process is supposed to 533 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: be representative of America, but it keeps shooting out one 534 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: thing the only the only way to look and say, oh, 535 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: our our interview process is working perfectly is to make 536 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: essentially a racist statement. Right. It means that this type 537 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: of population is actually better at something. And so I 538 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: think one of the other things that we've done is 539 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: make sure that whenever we're seeing something where not the 540 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: right ratio of folks are not the right populations are 541 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: making it to the end of a process. UM, you 542 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: have to look at that as in, there's something that 543 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: needs to be debugged, and not just throw up your 544 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: hands to me like, oh, this thing isn't out there 545 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: of societies to um, society is too broken or whatever. 546 00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: So I think that those are the ways I mean 547 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: that the folks create opportunities for themselves. UM, as long 548 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: as we just facilitate something that UM pushes us towards, uh, 549 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: the representation that should have always existed and should exist 550 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: everywhere for sure, for sure influence. I'm gonna give you 551 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: the same thing, but I'm gona ad a little bit 552 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: of twist. If you want to answer that directly, you can, 553 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: but I mean, let me add this twist in first 554 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: is from the procurement side. The reason why we have 555 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: a lot of things like you know, uh, like I 556 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: think A seven A certifications and things like that. A 557 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: A certifications is because historically these things have not been 558 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: equitable for for black folks. And I wonder, UM, what 559 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: are what is your admonishment to black owned businesses from 560 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: the certification perspective and others that you may be aware 561 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: of it. I just don't know to ask to get 562 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: engaged with so that we can be more competitive when 563 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: we come to the table with our thing. I think. 564 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: So the challenge I give to everyone is I know 565 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: what the rules are to do with this. With with 566 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: the federal government, I've had um many chats with with 567 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: small businesses. I have them every week, UM every Wednesday. 568 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: People reach out to say, hey, can I can we 569 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: have a conversation about, um, what it's like to work 570 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: in the government, how do I get a government contract, etcetera. UM, 571 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: And so I welcome and encourage all. I have meetings 572 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: with folks all the time, UM, asking questions about this 573 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: specifically in the in the tech space, and UM many 574 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: times I'll have conversations with people who have never heard 575 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: of sam dot gov, the system for a ward for 576 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: a word management, have never heard of different programs that 577 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: exist within the s b A. And so before I 578 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: encourage people before you even come to the table to 579 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: have that conversation, to do a little bit of that 580 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: homework before UM so that they are as knowledgeable as 581 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: possible about what these different opportunities are where UM, Like 582 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: what is the eight A program for a small business? 583 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: It's a wonderful program UM. Where by the way, if 584 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: you're if you are part of this program, the federal 585 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: government can award up to four million dollars directly to 586 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: your company for for an award for a contract UM 587 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: that is a non competitive contract that can be awarded 588 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: directly to your business. UM. But if you have to 589 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: know about it in order to actually engage and know 590 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: which you know, who's actually playing in that space and 591 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: what UM what opportunities exist for those But I'd say 592 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: understanding what these different programs are because teams like mine, 593 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: there are a lot of other teams like mine across 594 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: the UM, across the government who are doing a lot 595 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: of work to try to do outreach to UM underserved 596 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: businesses to make sure that the word gets out to 597 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: those businesses. Like I went to different UM. I go 598 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: to different conferences and try to have conversations with as 599 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: many underserved businesses as possible that are there to ensure 600 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: that they know that a USDs exists and that the 601 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: where the different opportunities exists as well across the agencies. 602 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: And so Florence, I'd like you to talk about a 603 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: little bit about the differences between um, these entrees into 604 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: doing business contracting with the government, these prime opportunities and 605 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: these sub opportunities. And then as you discuss that, like 606 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: what is as you define what those are, can you 607 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: talk about what incensive a prime has to sub with 608 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, a minority on company. Certainly, so we have 609 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: You're gonna make me get into like procurement NERDS space 610 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: for a little bit here, will So, UM, the government 611 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: has what's called privity of contract with the prime where 612 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: we have a direct relationship with the prime vendor. So 613 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: that is the vendor whose name is going to be 614 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: on that contract, so we that is where the money 615 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: is gonna flow. That's who's ultimately responsible for the perform 616 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: the performance of that contract to make sure that it's 617 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: successful delivery is actually a company ish UM and so 618 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: that's who our relationship is. When I when I used 619 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: to sign contracts, my my concern was who's whose name 620 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: is on that contract? Right, So the incentive for that 621 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: prime to have subs. There are small business goals and 622 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: subcontracting goals that exist within the government depending on the 623 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: dollar amount, and every different agencies have their different small 624 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: business and um small business sub goals. So that's something 625 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: for all of the audience who's listening to listening to 626 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,240 Speaker 1: this podcast to understand where the different subcontract goals exist 627 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: in what they are UM but primes are incentivized to 628 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: have subs because primes can't do everything. I've known contractors 629 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: where they are the prime, but they don't do design. 630 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: They just don't have they don't have that expertise in house. 631 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,280 Speaker 1: So they have to sub with an excellent small business 632 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: that is a design firm that's specializes in this in 633 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 1: this particular area, UM or that has expertise in a 634 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: very special like their their user base is all is 635 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,399 Speaker 1: mostly veterans. They've they've served veterans in a particular way, 636 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: and so that large prime business doesn't have that particular expertise, 637 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: so they have to go to that sub to get 638 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: that expertise in the door. Because when we're doing that 639 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: evaluation to evaluate which vendor is best to do to 640 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: provide a to get an award with and to be 641 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: in a relationship with for the next year or more. 642 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: We want to know, like who's who's all going to 643 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: be at the table, and if that prime doesn't have 644 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: the expertise that they can bring to bear and they're 645 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 1: and they're not able to tell us that or show 646 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: us that in their in the evaluation scheme or process, 647 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna know it because they haven't. They haven't shown 648 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: their the full their full capabilities. And most of the 649 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: time I've seen those full capabilities happen when they are 650 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: in concert with a very strong sub or more subs um. 651 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: I'm gonna position this to both of you guys. I 652 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: was having a conversation a couple of episodes ago about 653 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,359 Speaker 1: um just being purely opportunists. You know, sometimes we think, 654 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: because we're trying to get a contract, that we have 655 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: to have the most innovative thing in the world to 656 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: be able to position as the next thing. But there's 657 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: people who I'm sure are making hundreds of thousands of 658 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: dollars selling pencils, you know, just because they have you know, manufacturing, 659 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: and they can they got the person who wants to 660 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: buy it and they you know, contract that thing. So 661 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: they're making all this money selling pencils, right, and so 662 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: I want to get your ideas on what are some 663 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: of the easier ways for people who just want to 664 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: be an opportunity you know, uh, magnate somebody in the 665 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: middle who can you know, either have the manufacturing relationship 666 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: and the relationship with people who want to buy the thing. 667 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 1: What are some of the most fluid ways to selling 668 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: to the government without having to have the most innovative 669 00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, UM offering. So I immediate response to that 670 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: is be able to show up and be passionate about 671 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: the problem that you're trying to solve. It does not 672 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: have to be the most innovative thing, like I've seen 673 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: some vendors. I've issued solicitations in the past where we're 674 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: asking for UM vendors to do provide to pride a 675 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: particular service. And it's not necessarily the most innovative solution 676 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:28,720 Speaker 1: that is that wins. It's they are passionate about getting 677 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: this particular work. They're going to show up on day 678 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: one with a passionate team. They show the cap that 679 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: they have the strong capabilities to do so they've performed 680 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 1: in the past and they've been great at performing and 681 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: they get the award. Like I've I've seen it where 682 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: we're not asking for like you to take us to 683 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: the moon right or beyond the moon. We're asking for 684 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: you to like show up, be passionate, be great partners, 685 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: and like get the work done with us um And 686 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: so I would definitely challenge those who are who may 687 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: think that it's like I need to build like the 688 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 1: next version of the best pencil. Ever, it may not 689 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: be that it's really showing up and saying, look, I'm 690 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,240 Speaker 1: in this space. I'm really interested in being in this space. 691 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: I've worked in this space for years, and I'm ready 692 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: to like we're ready to roll up our sleeves and 693 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:38,800 Speaker 1: be partners with you. Black Tech Green Money is in 694 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: production to Blackvity, afro Tech, on the Black Effect Podcast Network, 695 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,799 Speaker 1: and i Hied Media. It's produced by Morgan Dubon and 696 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: me Well Lucas, with additional production support by Sarah Ergan 697 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: and Rose McLucas. Special thank you to Michael Davis and 698 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: van neces Serrano. Learned more about my guests and other 699 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: tech this rubs the innovatives at afro Tech dot Com 700 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: video for this episode. We'll drop the black tech Green 701 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: money on YouTube next week, so I'll tap in. Enjoy 702 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: your black tech green money. Share this with somebody, Go 703 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: get your money. Piece of love.