Speaker 1: It was such a heart wrenching murder that he can't
Speaker 1: get a fair trial in that community.
Speaker 2: In the interest of justice. I don't think the families
Speaker 2: want to wait. I don't think justice wants to wait.
Speaker 3: This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KAT Studios
Speaker 3: and iHeartRadio, Season two, Episode eight, Change of Venue. I'm
Speaker 3: Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker
Speaker 3: and Gabe Castillo. There have been more than a dozen
Speaker 3: pre trial hearings in the state of Idaho versus Brian Coberger.
Speaker 3: The trial had an original start date of October twenty
Speaker 3: twenty three, but nearly a year later, many issues still
Speaker 3: remain to be decided, including determining if Laidakh County still
Speaker 3: has a viable jury pool.
Speaker 4: New court filings reveal the defense thinks that quote a
Speaker 4: fair and impartial jury cannot be found in Laytak County.
Speaker 4: They add that enlarging the jury pool will not do
Speaker 4: anything to overcome that pervasive prejudicial publicity because Laytak County
Speaker 4: does not have a large enough population center to avoid
Speaker 4: the bias in the community.
Speaker 3: Setting a trial date and battling over change of venue
Speaker 3: are inextricably intertwined. We spoke with many experts to understand
Speaker 3: the intricacies of the pretrial hearings. Stephanie as journalist Connor
Speaker 3: Powell what he thought about the change of venue request
Speaker 3: on the defense's part.
Speaker 1: This is where the judge and defense prosecution are going
Speaker 1: to essentially battle over change of venue, which he wants
Speaker 1: to see it moved out of Moscow, Idaho, because their
Speaker 1: argument is that he can't get a fair trial there.
Speaker 1: It was such a dramatic and just really the heart
Speaker 1: wrenching murder that he can't get a fair trial in
Speaker 1: that community. And the judge might see it that way,
Speaker 1: they might not. That's sort of up for discussion. The
Speaker 1: other issue is where the trial should happen in when,
Speaker 1: and it's a small town. Right where this murder took
Speaker 1: place and where the trial is likely to take place
Speaker 1: is a small community. There's a school right across the
Speaker 1: street from the courthouse. And one of the arguments for
Speaker 1: pushing this back, in delaying this is to do it
Speaker 1: during the summer so that the media onslaught that's going
Speaker 1: to happen with this trial doesn't impact the local community,
Speaker 1: particularly the students, the kids of that community.
Speaker 5: And also in the university, So that seemed like a
Speaker 5: pretty smart plan. That was initially going to be this summer.
Speaker 5: We were thinking July August of twenty twenty four. Now
Speaker 5: that it's pushing so far, Look, I get it, he's
Speaker 5: going to have to have a trial on the moon
Speaker 5: to escape people knowing who he is. This is not
Speaker 5: only national news, it's become world news. And changing of
Speaker 5: the venue sort of seems like that might just be
Speaker 5: a delay process and would really slow things down. Or
Speaker 5: if they changed the venue so that it's not one
Speaker 5: that's directly across the street from a high school, it
Speaker 5: sort of opens up the calendar potentially for them.
Speaker 3: I spoke with Long Crimes True Crime reporter an Jeanette Levy,
Speaker 3: who spent a lot of time in Moscow, Idaho, over
Speaker 3: the past two years.
Speaker 6: What you have to understand is in Moscow, that is
Speaker 6: a town of twenty five thousand, that's a college town.
Speaker 6: And when I was there, the wound that this crime
Speaker 6: created in that community, the pain, the grief really struck
Speaker 6: people and stunned them. When I went to businesses trying
Speaker 6: to talk to people about it, they felt like they
Speaker 6: were personally wounded by this. It just took such a
Speaker 6: toll that the influx of media and this is like
Speaker 6: a place that should be happy and I and you know,
Speaker 6: this was a small community that took this personally. And
Speaker 6: you could tell that in speaking to people there. They
Speaker 6: were doing their best to go about life every day
Speaker 6: and running their businesses and getting their kids off to school.
Speaker 6: But this was a horror that unfolded in that town.
Speaker 6: And so it was a huge deal when an arrest
Speaker 6: was made, and people may or may not have formed
Speaker 6: really inflexible if you would opinions about that. You know,
Speaker 6: they may have decided this happened and somebody's got to
Speaker 6: pay for it. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened,
Speaker 6: but it's possible. So I could see how moving it
Speaker 6: might probably just be the best thing to do. And
Speaker 6: I'm not talking a couple of towns over, I mean
Speaker 6: maybe a few counties over. Who knows where they would
Speaker 6: move it, but I know that An Taylor has suggested
Speaker 6: Ada County, which is Boise. It's a bigger population center,
Speaker 6: it has a more min courthouse Leyta County. It's a
Speaker 6: very small courthouse.
Speaker 3: So so for clarity, you mentioned Anne Taylor, and to
Speaker 3: remind listeners, Miss Taylor is Brian Coberger's defense attorney, Anginae.
Speaker 3: Are you able to describe the courthouse and specifically its
Speaker 3: proximity to the school. I know that's been a major issue.
Speaker 6: The courthouse is directly across the street from Moscow High School,
Speaker 6: directly across the street. I mean, you can't get any
Speaker 6: closer than that. And the courthouse is older, it's a
Speaker 6: small facility. It's connected to the sheriff's office. You know,
Speaker 6: the county's a county of forty thousand people. That's not
Speaker 6: very big, So you know, you've got the cute little
Speaker 6: downtown area, the courthouse kind of up the hill from there,
Speaker 6: and the sheriff's office. In the courthouse, it's a building
Speaker 6: that kind of isn't an L shape, and then the
Speaker 6: high school is right across the street, so it's very quaint,
Speaker 6: it's very cute. It's a small town.
Speaker 3: Ann Taylor has said that summer twenty twenty five maybe
Speaker 3: too soon. Then are we looking at summer twenty twenty
Speaker 3: six in order to not interfere with high school and college?
Speaker 6: And they made it sound like, I mean, the prosecution
Speaker 6: thinks this is going to be a six week trial.
Speaker 6: She thought it would be much longer.
Speaker 3: I think fifteen week was her projection if I remember correctly.
Speaker 3: So it's a pretty big disparity.
Speaker 6: I would have to know more about what the prosecution's
Speaker 6: thought process is on their case. But six weeks for
Speaker 6: a case like this total, especially if you even get
Speaker 6: to the mitigation phase, Wow, that's ambitious. Obviously the defense
Speaker 6: is going to fight. It sounds like they're going to
Speaker 6: put up a fight. They're going to be calling experts.
Speaker 6: I'm sure they'll do their best to cross examine witnesses
Speaker 6: and do their best to discredit thing, you know, witnesses
Speaker 6: through cross examination. But who knows what they have planned.
Speaker 6: She's arguing for a change of venue, and you can't
Speaker 6: tell me that somebody like me. I'm pouring over this
Speaker 6: stuff every time something is filed because that's my job
Speaker 6: and I'm interested in it and I need to be
Speaker 6: able to convey stuff accurately to the public. But I
Speaker 6: don't think maybe your average juror is sitting there monitoring
Speaker 6: the Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest website waiting to look
Speaker 6: at this, and if they move the trial, you know,
Speaker 6: she's got a jury expert that's going to come in
Speaker 6: and say that, leta county's biased and they can't have
Speaker 6: the trial there. Well, if you're going to move it somewhere,
Speaker 6: then you're going to have a bigger jury pool, potentially
Speaker 6: a larger pool of people from which to choose. And
Speaker 6: the longer this gets drawn out, the more memories will fade.
Speaker 3: But even the change of venue, I mean, that's obviously
Speaker 3: Defense Attorney Taylor is trying really hard to get that changed.
Speaker 3: But what even is the difference of moving a couple
Speaker 3: of towns over in terms of people knowing or not
Speaker 3: knowing about this case that is in the news all
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 6: Normal people are busy. Cell phones have changed everything, of course,
Speaker 6: but they're not always on their phones looking at every
Speaker 6: little development in a case.
Speaker 3: Data Analyst's Body move In is a super sleuth who
Speaker 3: you may know from Netflix is Don't Have with Cats.
Speaker 3: She has some additional thoughts on the merit of a
Speaker 3: potential change of venue.
Speaker 2: I do think that they're going to move it, though,
Speaker 2: I really do, and I think it just makes sense
Speaker 2: more logistically than anything else. The tiny, itty bitty little town.
Speaker 2: You know, the media is going to be all over this.
Speaker 2: People are going to be traveling to try to attend
Speaker 2: this trial. Logistically, I don't know that the city or
Speaker 2: town of Moscow can handle all the people. And we've
Speaker 2: been Courtney, we follow trials and this is what we do, right.
Speaker 2: I just don't think in the interest of justice, I
Speaker 2: don't think the families want to wait. I don't think
Speaker 2: justice wants to wait. I do think it should move
Speaker 2: it not necessarily because the jury pool, just for logistical regions.
Speaker 2: It's just I just don't think it's going to be
Speaker 2: a good thing.
Speaker 3: What you just said is common sense, But it somehow
Speaker 3: had not occurred to.
Speaker 2: Me another year for all those families to wait right
Speaker 2: to find out what happened to their children and limbo.
Speaker 2: Especially in capital cases, there's so many pre hearing motions
Speaker 2: and things that have to be done. And while preparing
Speaker 2: the defense and preparing the you know, the prosecution. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think media has taken a unique turn, especially with
Speaker 2: true crime reporting. Right you have people who are independent
Speaker 2: I'm using quotes independent journalists right now, who are you know,
Speaker 2: their living is on YouTube and social media and they
Speaker 2: were you know, they make little press passes for themselves
Speaker 2: and whatnot, and they harass people to get information, and
Speaker 2: I just can't imagine this trial happening while kids are
Speaker 2: at school on recess playing so in the field that's
Speaker 2: facing the court and possibly being on a YouTube channel.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: I would go crazy, and I think you're right that
Speaker 3: parents would go crazy.
Speaker 2: Of course, we all want justice, I mean, everybody wants justice.
Speaker 2: But imagine living in that town and you have a
Speaker 2: thirteen year old child who has to go to school
Speaker 2: and wade through all the reporters to get there. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying that would happen, but it could, and I
Speaker 2: don't think the community of Moscow would like that.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 2: I do think that the people of Moscow do want
Speaker 2: justice served by them by their community because this happened
Speaker 2: in their community and they want to be the ones
Speaker 2: to see it through.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: I think they're good, hardworking Americans that believe in the
Speaker 2: system and want to see things through. I absolutely believe that.
Speaker 2: I just don't know if they're going to be able
Speaker 2: to be able to get that done in time for
Speaker 2: school to be at a session, and that includes the
Speaker 2: university too, because the town is full. It's while the
Speaker 2: kids are in school. I think it's going to have
Speaker 2: to move. Justice moves so slowly. I just don't believe
Speaker 2: they're going to be ready in time. I just don't.
Speaker 2: I am not a victim's family or you know, part
Speaker 2: of the community of Moscow, so it's easy for me
Speaker 2: to say the judges should just move it and get
Speaker 2: it over with and move on and get to the
Speaker 2: issues at hand.
Speaker 3: Let's stop here for a break. We'll lead back in
Speaker 3: a moment to get a better understanding of the judicial
Speaker 3: practices that come into play with potential change of venue.
Speaker 3: I spoke with kirk Nermi, knowing that Coberger's defense attorney
Speaker 3: Ann Taylor wants to change of venue. I asked, if
Speaker 3: the judge alone makes the final decision.
Speaker 8: Well, ultimately, there's just kind of a default assessment that
Speaker 8: the jurisdiction of the court of a particular county. I
Speaker 8: believe that in this case is Letagh County is that
Speaker 8: is the court that assesses and judge and tries all
Speaker 8: crimes that are committed in that county. So that is
Speaker 8: the general presumption, if you will, A defense can look
Speaker 8: to change venue if they feel as if to another jurisdiction,
Speaker 8: another county, district, what have you. However, the state is
Speaker 8: set up within the boundaries of that state, and what
Speaker 8: they have to do in order to motivate that to
Speaker 8: happen is they have to assert facts to substantiate the
Speaker 8: idea that their client cannot get a fair trial in
Speaker 8: the county or district or what have you, in the
Speaker 8: court that they are presently in front of.
Speaker 3: I'm not asking you for statistics, but I guess how
Speaker 3: rare is it to have the trial changed out of
Speaker 3: the county in which the crime was committed.
Speaker 8: Well, I'm glad you didn't ask for statistics because I
Speaker 8: couldn't give you any, but I will say it's rare,
Speaker 8: but much more common in a high profile case, because
Speaker 8: when a case gets so much attention in an area,
Speaker 8: and we're really talking about media assassination, be that traditional
Speaker 8: media or social media, and how many people have prejudged
Speaker 8: the case in a particular area. For example, small counties
Speaker 8: have a smaller population of a jury pool to draw from.
Speaker 8: Maybe there's a higher percentage of people in that county
Speaker 8: that already know about the case, that sort of thing.
Speaker 8: So that becomes the defensive job to demonstrate that bias
Speaker 8: that would violate the sixth Amendment, and it becomes incumbent
Speaker 8: on the judge to make the decision. The prosecutor in
Speaker 8: some cases might relent. They might say, yeah, this is
Speaker 8: not going to be a county where you can get
Speaker 8: a fair trial, but ultimately that decision lies with the judge.
Speaker 3: After speaking with Kirk, I got curious if there were
Speaker 3: any statistics on change of venue and found a survey
Speaker 3: out by the University of San Diego. The survey analyzed
Speaker 3: murder trials from twenty to twenty twenty across all fifty states.
Speaker 3: There were many mitigating factors, but the success rate of
Speaker 3: change of venue was just twenty three point five percent.
Speaker 3: Here Stephen Greenberg, attorney and former prosecutor, elaborates on the
Speaker 3: potential outcomes for the change of venue in this case.
Speaker 7: The norm is they're not going to get a change
Speaker 7: your venue, and you can always get a jury. By
Speaker 7: the way, people sometimes they like because they want to
Speaker 7: sit on the jury. You know, we had a case
Speaker 7: involving a very important political figure, all headlines. Did you
Speaker 7: ever read anything about it? No, did you see anything
Speaker 7: on TV? And of course they did it. But you
Speaker 7: can always get a jury. And if I were the judge,
Speaker 7: I would do everything in my power to keep it
Speaker 7: from happening. Any judge worth is a ressault when want
Speaker 7: it happened. Worst case, they'll bring in jurors from another area.
Speaker 7: They can always be that, Oh I didn't know that.
Speaker 7: And by the way, it's not unheard of to go
Speaker 7: to a different venue and bring in a jury pool
Speaker 7: from the neighboring area. You know, it's always subtle. They
Speaker 7: just do subtle things. There's little things that happen during
Speaker 7: a trial that can be very harmful or helpful. This
Speaker 7: judge is not going to be helpful to a defense,
Speaker 7: not at all, and he's going to keep the case.
Speaker 3: I understand how unlikely you think it is for it
Speaker 3: to move. But if a trial moves, does the judge
Speaker 3: move with it? Is that possible or no?
Speaker 7: Yes, any one of a number of things could happen. First,
Speaker 7: the whole thing could be denied because they have enough
Speaker 7: to get another pools. The other thing they can do
Speaker 7: is the judge stays where the judge is and they
Speaker 7: bring in jurors from a different place, which is what
Speaker 7: I indicated earlier. The other thing is for the judge
Speaker 7: himself for herself to move to a different venue and
Speaker 7: pick a jury there. Any one of those three or possible.
Speaker 3: Inside additions, Chris Spargoes shared his thoughts on security and
Speaker 3: monetary issues involved with the trial's ultimate location. So you
Speaker 3: talked about people in the area kind of feeling frustration
Speaker 3: about how long this trial will be. Do you know
Speaker 3: any other details about that or can you speak to that.
Speaker 9: I heard there are concerns, which makes sense. I mean,
Speaker 9: obviously that's another Again, that's another cost to if kids
Speaker 9: are in school when that trial's going on, that's another
Speaker 9: level of security you're gonna have to get to make sure,
Speaker 9: you know, there's no sort of overlap. And I think
Speaker 9: that's not something they really want to expose the kids too,
Speaker 9: you know, sort of it's a very very very grim trial,
Speaker 9: even the details. So I don't think, you know, you
Speaker 9: want kids knowing about that, And I mean, I think
Speaker 9: there's a general media attention. No one wants your tild
Speaker 9: to be around the sort of media attention that's going
Speaker 9: on with this trial. Like I can't imagine being a
Speaker 9: parent knowing that, you know, eighty news trucks are outside
Speaker 9: my kid's school while they're you know, that's just not
Speaker 9: a way for a kid to live. And that's not
Speaker 9: something you want for your child. So I think that's
Speaker 9: sort of an understandable thing and they want to push it,
Speaker 9: but again, push it or not, that's probably gonna be
Speaker 9: another huge security.
Speaker 3: Costs for them. Have you been to the courthouse.
Speaker 9: I'm not. My colleague has been to the courthouse. I
Speaker 9: am not much of the travelers. Nothing grand, and it's
Speaker 9: it's which is kind of wild when you think about it,
Speaker 9: because of the size of the trial. It also makes
Speaker 9: it a big problem though, because of the amount of
Speaker 9: power the media companies using and everything. I mean, it's
Speaker 9: it's really a dream, you know, this this little courthouse
Speaker 9: being surrounded by all these bands and all the supporters
Speaker 9: and everything. It's it's kind of chaotic when when it's
Speaker 9: these hearing and these are hearings are not even major
Speaker 9: hearings right now, so to speak, you know, compared when
Speaker 9: the actual trial starts. And even then, I mean, my
Speaker 9: colleague said it was wild. How you barely get in
Speaker 9: there's a million people around. It's really chaos.
Speaker 3: Do you have an opinion on if the trial either
Speaker 3: should move and or if the judge will decide to
Speaker 3: move it.
Speaker 9: I wish the trial would move for the sake of
Speaker 9: the residents. I think that they've done enough. I think
Speaker 9: they bared the burden of and I just just get
Speaker 9: it out of there for those poor people. Like I mean,
Speaker 9: I don't care. I don't think really care about the
Speaker 9: jury so much. I you know, I know that's not
Speaker 9: really the legal president or know how they decided, but
Speaker 9: it just it would just be nice if it wasn't
Speaker 9: there for them, Like I just feel so nice for them,
Speaker 9: if people just got you know, outlandd As somewhere else.
Speaker 9: I like I said before the I don't think you
Speaker 9: could put that jury anywhere in the United States, you know,
Speaker 9: and get a truly impartial jury who doesn't know anything
Speaker 9: about Brian cop I'd be nice to have moved to
Speaker 9: another county, just for like I said, just for the
Speaker 9: people that live in Moscow. That'd be great. But I
Speaker 9: think it's going to be hard for the defense to
Speaker 9: prove that any neighboring county is any more or less
Speaker 9: impacted by what's been covered in the media. Let they
Speaker 9: know about it them than Latin.
Speaker 3: As of the date of this recording June twenty seventh,
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, a decision on change of venue has
Speaker 3: not been decided. There was a pretrial hearing today where
Speaker 3: it was speculated the decision may come down, but that
Speaker 3: is not the case. Here's Stephanie as the debate over
Speaker 3: the venue takes place. We found it interesting that Coburger
Speaker 3: is housed literally below the courthouse in the basement. That's
Speaker 3: where the county jail is, and he's been there since
Speaker 3: January fourth, twenty twenty three. The jail itself is about
Speaker 3: two thousand square feet and houses approximately seventeen inmates at
Speaker 3: any time. So for comparison, according to US Census data,
Speaker 3: the average newly built house in the US measures approximately
Speaker 3: twenty three hundred square feet, so the average new built
Speaker 3: house is actually bigger than where Coburger and his fellow
Speaker 3: inmates are being housed at this time. News Nation did
Speaker 3: a really good job breaking down a little bit of
Speaker 3: his life behind bars. We know that there are about
Speaker 3: three guards working at any one time, and when Coburger
Speaker 3: goes out for exercise for one hour a day, he's
Speaker 3: always with guards. There's been a lot made about him
Speaker 3: receiving special treatment, specifically the fact that he has vegan
Speaker 3: meals or new suits and a computer in his own television.
Speaker 3: According to reports, his meals are primarily rice and beans
Speaker 3: and vegetables. He has a computer, or at least access
Speaker 3: to one, just like any other inmate. He can use
Speaker 3: a thumb drive to look at documents related to his case,
Speaker 3: make notes, and then get those back to his attorney.
Speaker 3: That's pretty status quo.
Speaker 5: As for him having his own television, that's because he's
Speaker 5: not in the general population, and it's been noted that
Speaker 5: the TV is actually outside of his cell, so he
Speaker 5: can watch it between the bars and to other inmates
Speaker 5: who can sometimes hear what he's listening to or watching.
Speaker 5: He's apparently very interested in the coverage of his own case.
Speaker 5: Something else interesting about his routine is that he apparently
Speaker 5: attends mass at the jail library. That's the only time
Speaker 5: he's actually allowed to be with fellow inmates, and he
Speaker 5: speaks to a priest. In a Daily Mail exclusive, pastor
Speaker 5: Mike Hall, who heads at the special group that sends
Speaker 5: ministers into jails, is quoted as saying, we don't tell
Speaker 5: folks that we will relieve them of their responsibility of
Speaker 5: their crimes end quote. But he does speak to somebody
Speaker 5: one on one occasionally. Outlets have reported that he's been
Speaker 5: a model prisoner, even though he sometimes gets taunted by
Speaker 5: other inmates while he's walking by. And one other curious thing,
Speaker 5: Brian Coberger is apparently getting a lot of attention from women.
Speaker 5: There are apparently cohorts of women who are reaching out
Speaker 5: to him because they have romantic interest in him.
Speaker 3: Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in
Speaker 3: a moment. Following is a quick conversation that happened between Stephanie,
Speaker 3: journalist Connor Powell and Body Moven. This short chat sent
Speaker 3: us pretty far down the path on this topic.
Speaker 1: One of the topics that came up was this idea
Speaker 1: of people who fall in love or have obsessions with
Speaker 1: criminals who are in prison who have been particularly the
Speaker 1: ones who have been accused of murder. And there was
Speaker 1: the phrase that was thrown out was hybristophelia, which is
Speaker 1: this idea of sexual attraction in response to somebody who's
Speaker 1: committed a heinous crime.
Speaker 5: It just really makes you wonder the why, right. This
Speaker 5: seems to me like there has to be some sort
Speaker 5: of unhealed trauma to never want your partner to come
Speaker 5: home at night, is you know, kind of a tell
Speaker 5: about something probably larger.
Speaker 1: I was amazed as I was doing some digging today
Speaker 1: a body that there are multiple social media sites dedicated
Speaker 1: to the fascination and with people professing their love of
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger. Is that something you've come across before in
Speaker 1: criminal data research you've done before?
Speaker 2: Yes, I have extensive knowledge on this disorder?
Speaker 1: Is that extensive personal knowledge or just extensive knowledge?
Speaker 3: Personal?
Speaker 2: Okay, personal knowledge? So, as you all know, I was
Speaker 2: in that Netflix documentary Donnov with Katz and the subject
Speaker 2: was a murder that happened. You know, Luca Magnata was
Speaker 2: the murderer, and I was in the documentary talking about
Speaker 2: it and how he was caught and I was after him,
Speaker 2: and you know all this right well after the documentary aired,
Speaker 2: literally the first one hundred and fifty emails I got
Speaker 2: were all from the same person telling me what a
Speaker 2: scumbag I was because they're in love with Luca. And
Speaker 2: to this day, you know, this documentary aired in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 2: the end of twenty nineteen, so it's been four years.
Speaker 2: Right to this day, I still get hate mail from
Speaker 2: people who are obsessed with Luca Mgnata and how dare I?
Speaker 2: And it's it's absolutely wild.
Speaker 7: It gives me the creeps.
Speaker 5: Is that because they don't think that he did it,
Speaker 5: and that they just feel like he's been wrongfully accused
Speaker 5: and he's just cute man behind bars.
Speaker 2: It's a mix. It's a mix of people that are
Speaker 2: trying to be like edge lords. There's many reasons people
Speaker 2: have this disorder, right, It's there's low self esteem issues.
Speaker 2: People believe they can change him. Others just see it
Speaker 2: like a little boy that the killer once was and
Speaker 2: he wasn't protected and he needs to be nurtured. There's
Speaker 2: many different reasons. Not many people think he's innocent.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say part of the arousal, right, part
Speaker 1: of the attraction is that he did do it, right,
Speaker 1: Like that's right kind of what they get off on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's part of it is this is a really
Speaker 2: dangerous person and if I can get them to love me,
Speaker 2: I'm one of the people he would never hurt or
Speaker 2: you know, I'm protected. There's many different reasons that people
Speaker 2: have this, and I think that you know, the people
Speaker 2: that have this disorder think that, oh well, if I
Speaker 2: love him, he's not going to be a danger. But
Speaker 2: there's like a whole subreddit dedicated to the love.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's sort of two groups on social media of
Speaker 1: people who are defending Coburger, saying he didn't do it right.
Speaker 1: And then there's this other little subgroup that you see,
Speaker 1: which is like they sort of acknowledge, or maybe they
Speaker 1: don't fully acknowledge, but they are turned on by what
Speaker 1: he did. And you're right, it goes into that he
Speaker 1: would never do it to me, and I can change him.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean the people who think he's innocent are
Speaker 2: not in this group of they call themselves bribrise. They're
Speaker 2: not in this group of bribebries. They like photoshop his
Speaker 2: images and the pictures they have literal alters with his
Speaker 2: mug shots and you know, with the turtle suit on.
Speaker 2: They make like fan cams on Twitter of him like
Speaker 2: entering court and it's like in slow motion with like
Speaker 2: music playing, and a lot of it too. I think
Speaker 2: is the edge lord mentality. Right, I'm gonna piss off
Speaker 2: everyone I know because I am patrol. You know, a
Speaker 2: lot of it is trolling. They want a reaction, they
Speaker 2: want the attention, they want people to be absolutely outraged
Speaker 2: by their behavior. It's an internetroal, but they do exist,
Speaker 2: and it is an actual disorder. There's many papers written
Speaker 2: on it. I had to go study this because I
Speaker 2: was getting a lot of like threats, you know, literal
Speaker 2: threats against my own life. But if you look at history,
Speaker 2: look at how many women were fascinated with Ted Bundy
Speaker 2: and even to this day still are. And the bride
Speaker 2: Rice Compare Brian Coberger to Ted Bundy, It's absolutely wild.
Speaker 3: More on that next time. For more information on the
Speaker 3: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at KT
Speaker 3: Underscore Studios. The Idaho Masker is produced by Stephanie Leideger,
Speaker 3: Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design
Speaker 3: by Jeff Toois, Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Masker
Speaker 3: is a production of KT's Studios and iHeartRadio. For more
Speaker 3: podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 3: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.