WEBVTT - Change of Venue 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.440 It was such a heart wrenching murder that he can't 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:09.680 get a fair trial in that community. 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:13.600 In the interest of justice. I don't think the families 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:18.320 want to wait. I don't think justice wants to wait. 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:27.080 This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KAT Studios 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:36.159 and iHeartRadio, Season two, Episode eight, Change of Venue. I'm 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:40.199 Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:46.160 and Gabe Castillo. There have been more than a dozen 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.640 pre trial hearings in the state of Idaho versus Brian Coberger. 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:53.440 The trial had an original start date of October twenty 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:57.040 twenty three, but nearly a year later, many issues still 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:01.400 remain to be decided, including determining if Laidakh County still 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:02.720 has a viable jury pool. 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.000 New court filings reveal the defense thinks that quote a 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.319 fair and impartial jury cannot be found in Laytak County. 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.040 They add that enlarging the jury pool will not do 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:19.720 anything to overcome that pervasive prejudicial publicity because Laytak County 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.520 does not have a large enough population center to avoid 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:23.720 the bias in the community. 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.280 Setting a trial date and battling over change of venue 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:32.920 are inextricably intertwined. We spoke with many experts to understand 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:37.399 the intricacies of the pretrial hearings. Stephanie as journalist Connor 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.080 Powell what he thought about the change of venue request 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:41.280 on the defense's part. 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.840 This is where the judge and defense prosecution are going 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.520 to essentially battle over change of venue, which he wants 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.760 to see it moved out of Moscow, Idaho, because their 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:56.760 argument is that he can't get a fair trial there. 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.680 It was such a dramatic and just really the heart 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:03.680 wrenching murder that he can't get a fair trial in 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.240 that community. And the judge might see it that way, 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:08.680 they might not. That's sort of up for discussion. The 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.360 other issue is where the trial should happen in when, 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:16.400 and it's a small town. Right where this murder took 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.280 place and where the trial is likely to take place 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:21.880 is a small community. There's a school right across the 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:26.000 street from the courthouse. And one of the arguments for 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.040 pushing this back, in delaying this is to do it 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:33.200 during the summer so that the media onslaught that's going 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.480 to happen with this trial doesn't impact the local community, 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:40.040 particularly the students, the kids of that community. 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.320 And also in the university, So that seemed like a 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.720 pretty smart plan. That was initially going to be this summer. 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.919 We were thinking July August of twenty twenty four. Now 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.600 that it's pushing so far, Look, I get it, he's 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:53.160 going to have to have a trial on the moon 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:56.480 to escape people knowing who he is. This is not 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.560 only national news, it's become world news. And changing of 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:02.560 the venue sort of seems like that might just be 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:06.360 a delay process and would really slow things down. Or 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.400 if they changed the venue so that it's not one 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:10.840 that's directly across the street from a high school, it 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:15.160 sort of opens up the calendar potentially for them. 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.680 I spoke with Long Crimes True Crime reporter an Jeanette Levy, 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.359 who spent a lot of time in Moscow, Idaho, over 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:22.800 the past two years. 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:27.320 What you have to understand is in Moscow, that is 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:31.680 a town of twenty five thousand, that's a college town. 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:36.640 And when I was there, the wound that this crime 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:42.880 created in that community, the pain, the grief really struck 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.240 people and stunned them. When I went to businesses trying 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:50.120 to talk to people about it, they felt like they 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:54.080 were personally wounded by this. It just took such a 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.680 toll that the influx of media and this is like 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:01.120 a place that should be happy and I and you know, 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:04.960 this was a small community that took this personally. And 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.840 you could tell that in speaking to people there. They 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.080 were doing their best to go about life every day 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.400 and running their businesses and getting their kids off to school. 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.159 But this was a horror that unfolded in that town. 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:22.320 And so it was a huge deal when an arrest 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:27.359 was made, and people may or may not have formed 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.279 really inflexible if you would opinions about that. You know, 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:36.440 they may have decided this happened and somebody's got to 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.400 pay for it. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened, 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:44.320 but it's possible. So I could see how moving it 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.279 might probably just be the best thing to do. And 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:49.520 I'm not talking a couple of towns over, I mean 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.920 maybe a few counties over. Who knows where they would 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.520 move it, but I know that An Taylor has suggested 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:59.080 Ada County, which is Boise. It's a bigger population center, 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.400 it has a more min courthouse Leyta County. It's a 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:03.520 very small courthouse. 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.839 So so for clarity, you mentioned Anne Taylor, and to 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:12.279 remind listeners, Miss Taylor is Brian Coberger's defense attorney, Anginae. 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.480 Are you able to describe the courthouse and specifically its 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.640 proximity to the school. I know that's been a major issue. 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.920 The courthouse is directly across the street from Moscow High School, 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.760 directly across the street. I mean, you can't get any 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.599 closer than that. And the courthouse is older, it's a 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.080 small facility. It's connected to the sheriff's office. You know, 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.520 the county's a county of forty thousand people. That's not 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.560 very big, So you know, you've got the cute little 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:42.120 downtown area, the courthouse kind of up the hill from there, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:46.080 and the sheriff's office. In the courthouse, it's a building 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:48.400 that kind of isn't an L shape, and then the 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.479 high school is right across the street, so it's very quaint, 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.120 it's very cute. It's a small town. 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.279 Ann Taylor has said that summer twenty twenty five maybe 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:02.320 too soon. Then are we looking at summer twenty twenty 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:06.960 six in order to not interfere with high school and college? 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.359 And they made it sound like, I mean, the prosecution 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.600 thinks this is going to be a six week trial. 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.040 She thought it would be much longer. 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:18.279 I think fifteen week was her projection if I remember correctly. 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:20.880 So it's a pretty big disparity. 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.760 I would have to know more about what the prosecution's 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.839 thought process is on their case. But six weeks for 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:34.080 a case like this total, especially if you even get 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:40.200 to the mitigation phase, Wow, that's ambitious. Obviously the defense 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:42.240 is going to fight. It sounds like they're going to 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.440 put up a fight. They're going to be calling experts. 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.839 I'm sure they'll do their best to cross examine witnesses 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.960 and do their best to discredit thing, you know, witnesses 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:56.960 through cross examination. But who knows what they have planned. 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.279 She's arguing for a change of venue, and you can't 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.600 tell me that somebody like me. I'm pouring over this 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:08.120 stuff every time something is filed because that's my job 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:10.520 and I'm interested in it and I need to be 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.560 able to convey stuff accurately to the public. But I 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:18.720 don't think maybe your average juror is sitting there monitoring 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:23.560 the Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest website waiting to look 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.760 at this, and if they move the trial, you know, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.640 she's got a jury expert that's going to come in 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.760 and say that, leta county's biased and they can't have 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.360 the trial there. Well, if you're going to move it somewhere, 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.200 then you're going to have a bigger jury pool, potentially 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.000 a larger pool of people from which to choose. And 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:45.720 the longer this gets drawn out, the more memories will fade. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.120 But even the change of venue, I mean, that's obviously 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.360 Defense Attorney Taylor is trying really hard to get that changed. 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:57.560 But what even is the difference of moving a couple 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.160 of towns over in terms of people knowing or not 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.840 knowing about this case that is in the news all 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:04.440 the time. 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.440 Normal people are busy. Cell phones have changed everything, of course, 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:10.560 but they're not always on their phones looking at every 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:12.080 little development in a case. 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:16.720 Data Analyst's Body move In is a super sleuth who 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.480 you may know from Netflix is Don't Have with Cats. 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.120 She has some additional thoughts on the merit of a 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:23.640 potential change of venue. 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.360 I do think that they're going to move it, though, 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:29.840 I really do, and I think it just makes sense 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.560 more logistically than anything else. The tiny, itty bitty little town. 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.280 You know, the media is going to be all over this. 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.200 People are going to be traveling to try to attend 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.840 this trial. Logistically, I don't know that the city or 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:46.800 town of Moscow can handle all the people. And we've 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.120 been Courtney, we follow trials and this is what we do, right. 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.440 I just don't think in the interest of justice, I 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.920 don't think the families want to wait. I don't think 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.760 justice wants to wait. I do think it should move 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.320 it not necessarily because the jury pool, just for logistical regions. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.440 It's just I just don't think it's going to be 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:05.839 a good thing. 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.480 What you just said is common sense, But it somehow 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:09.360 had not occurred to. 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.480 Me another year for all those families to wait right 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.160 to find out what happened to their children and limbo. 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:21.280 Especially in capital cases, there's so many pre hearing motions 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.680 and things that have to be done. And while preparing 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.680 the defense and preparing the you know, the prosecution. I mean, 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:33.440 I think media has taken a unique turn, especially with 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:37.160 true crime reporting. Right you have people who are independent 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:41.560 I'm using quotes independent journalists right now, who are you know, 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:45.559 their living is on YouTube and social media and they 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.040 were you know, they make little press passes for themselves 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:52.480 and whatnot, and they harass people to get information, and 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:57.040 I just can't imagine this trial happening while kids are 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:01.560 at school on recess playing so in the field that's 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:06.600 facing the court and possibly being on a YouTube channel. 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:07.480 Do you know what I mean? 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:12.080 I would go crazy, and I think you're right that 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.199 parents would go crazy. 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.640 Of course, we all want justice, I mean, everybody wants justice. 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.400 But imagine living in that town and you have a 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.280 thirteen year old child who has to go to school 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.480 and wade through all the reporters to get there. I'm 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:28.840 not saying that would happen, but it could, and I 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.800 don't think the community of Moscow would like that. 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:33.400 Now. 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.640 I do think that the people of Moscow do want 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.120 justice served by them by their community because this happened 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.520 in their community and they want to be the ones 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:43.520 to see it through. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:43.839 Right. 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.080 I think they're good, hardworking Americans that believe in the 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.960 system and want to see things through. I absolutely believe that. 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:52.240 I just don't know if they're going to be able 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.800 to be able to get that done in time for 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.040 school to be at a session, and that includes the 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.599 university too, because the town is full. It's while the 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.440 kids are in school. I think it's going to have 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:06.320 to move. Justice moves so slowly. I just don't believe 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.880 they're going to be ready in time. I just don't. 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:13.800 I am not a victim's family or you know, part 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:15.680 of the community of Moscow, so it's easy for me 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:17.240 to say the judges should just move it and get 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.920 it over with and move on and get to the 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:20.640 issues at hand. 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.319 Let's stop here for a break. We'll lead back in 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:36.280 a moment to get a better understanding of the judicial 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.320 practices that come into play with potential change of venue. 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:43.080 I spoke with kirk Nermi, knowing that Coberger's defense attorney 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.719 Ann Taylor wants to change of venue. I asked, if 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:47.720 the judge alone makes the final decision. 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.679 Well, ultimately, there's just kind of a default assessment that 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:59.640 the jurisdiction of the court of a particular county. I 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.439 believe that in this case is Letagh County is that 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:06.200 is the court that assesses and judge and tries all 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.520 crimes that are committed in that county. So that is 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.480 the general presumption, if you will, A defense can look 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:18.439 to change venue if they feel as if to another jurisdiction, 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.800 another county, district, what have you. However, the state is 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.079 set up within the boundaries of that state, and what 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.040 they have to do in order to motivate that to 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:33.240 happen is they have to assert facts to substantiate the 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:36.520 idea that their client cannot get a fair trial in 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:38.960 the county or district or what have you, in the 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.120 court that they are presently in front of. 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.560 I'm not asking you for statistics, but I guess how 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:48.520 rare is it to have the trial changed out of 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.320 the county in which the crime was committed. 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.400 Well, I'm glad you didn't ask for statistics because I 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.480 couldn't give you any, but I will say it's rare, 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.760 but much more common in a high profile case, because 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.760 when a case gets so much attention in an area, 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:09.880 and we're really talking about media assassination, be that traditional 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:14.880 media or social media, and how many people have prejudged 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:19.280 the case in a particular area. For example, small counties 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:24.760 have a smaller population of a jury pool to draw from. 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.040 Maybe there's a higher percentage of people in that county 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.719 that already know about the case, that sort of thing. 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:36.160 So that becomes the defensive job to demonstrate that bias 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.360 that would violate the sixth Amendment, and it becomes incumbent 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.720 on the judge to make the decision. The prosecutor in 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.920 some cases might relent. They might say, yeah, this is 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.080 not going to be a county where you can get 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:53.000 a fair trial, but ultimately that decision lies with the judge. 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.960 After speaking with Kirk, I got curious if there were 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.800 any statistics on change of venue and found a survey 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.760 out by the University of San Diego. The survey analyzed 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:08.240 murder trials from twenty to twenty twenty across all fifty states. 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.600 There were many mitigating factors, but the success rate of 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.240 change of venue was just twenty three point five percent. 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:19.480 Here Stephen Greenberg, attorney and former prosecutor, elaborates on the 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:22.320 potential outcomes for the change of venue in this case. 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:26.600 The norm is they're not going to get a change 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.080 your venue, and you can always get a jury. By 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.320 the way, people sometimes they like because they want to 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.240 sit on the jury. You know, we had a case 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:37.840 involving a very important political figure, all headlines. Did you 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.360 ever read anything about it? No, did you see anything 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.320 on TV? And of course they did it. But you 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.480 can always get a jury. And if I were the judge, 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.320 I would do everything in my power to keep it 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.320 from happening. Any judge worth is a ressault when want 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.920 it happened. Worst case, they'll bring in jurors from another area. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:57.640 They can always be that, Oh I didn't know that. 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.680 And by the way, it's not unheard of to go 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.400 to a different venue and bring in a jury pool 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:08.400 from the neighboring area. You know, it's always subtle. They 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.440 just do subtle things. There's little things that happen during 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.000 a trial that can be very harmful or helpful. This 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:16.920 judge is not going to be helpful to a defense, 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.680 not at all, and he's going to keep the case. 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.840 I understand how unlikely you think it is for it 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:28.200 to move. But if a trial moves, does the judge 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.200 move with it? Is that possible or no? 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.480 Yes, any one of a number of things could happen. First, 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:36.640 the whole thing could be denied because they have enough 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:38.800 to get another pools. The other thing they can do 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.840 is the judge stays where the judge is and they 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.440 bring in jurors from a different place, which is what 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.200 I indicated earlier. The other thing is for the judge 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.920 himself for herself to move to a different venue and 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.160 pick a jury there. Any one of those three or possible. 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.600 Inside additions, Chris Spargoes shared his thoughts on security and 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:06.480 monetary issues involved with the trial's ultimate location. So you 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.200 talked about people in the area kind of feeling frustration 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:14.080 about how long this trial will be. Do you know 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.840 any other details about that or can you speak to that. 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.160 I heard there are concerns, which makes sense. I mean, 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:21.800 obviously that's another Again, that's another cost to if kids 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:23.320 are in school when that trial's going on, that's another 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.000 level of security you're gonna have to get to make sure, 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.080 you know, there's no sort of overlap. And I think 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:28.720 that's not something they really want to expose the kids too, 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.800 you know, sort of it's a very very very grim trial, 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:33.080 even the details. So I don't think, you know, you 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.080 want kids knowing about that, And I mean, I think 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:37.280 there's a general media attention. No one wants your tild 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:38.960 to be around the sort of media attention that's going 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:40.680 on with this trial. Like I can't imagine being a 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.760 parent knowing that, you know, eighty news trucks are outside 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.000 my kid's school while they're you know, that's just not 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:46.360 a way for a kid to live. And that's not 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:48.400 something you want for your child. So I think that's 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.200 sort of an understandable thing and they want to push it, 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.160 but again, push it or not, that's probably gonna be 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:53.280 another huge security. 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.320 Costs for them. Have you been to the courthouse. 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:58.320 I'm not. My colleague has been to the courthouse. I 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.200 am not much of the travelers. Nothing grand, and it's 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.000 it's which is kind of wild when you think about it, 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:04.879 because of the size of the trial. It also makes 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:06.240 it a big problem though, because of the amount of 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.280 power the media companies using and everything. I mean, it's 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.360 it's really a dream, you know, this this little courthouse 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.400 being surrounded by all these bands and all the supporters 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.200 and everything. It's it's kind of chaotic when when it's 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.359 these hearing and these are hearings are not even major 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.040 hearings right now, so to speak, you know, compared when 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:21.480 the actual trial starts. And even then, I mean, my 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.320 colleague said it was wild. How you barely get in 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.919 there's a million people around. It's really chaos. 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.720 Do you have an opinion on if the trial either 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.600 should move and or if the judge will decide to 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:33.919 move it. 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:36.240 I wish the trial would move for the sake of 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.560 the residents. I think that they've done enough. I think 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.239 they bared the burden of and I just just get 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:42.720 it out of there for those poor people. Like I mean, 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:44.320 I don't care. I don't think really care about the 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:45.520 jury so much. I you know, I know that's not 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:47.320 really the legal president or know how they decided, but 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:48.640 it just it would just be nice if it wasn't 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:50.560 there for them, Like I just feel so nice for them, 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:52.480 if people just got you know, outlandd As somewhere else. 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:54.240 I like I said before the I don't think you 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.639 could put that jury anywhere in the United States, you know, 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.440 and get a truly impartial jury who doesn't know anything 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:01.159 about Brian cop I'd be nice to have moved to 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:02.560 another county, just for like I said, just for the 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.199 people that live in Moscow. That'd be great. But I 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:06.520 think it's going to be hard for the defense to 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.240 prove that any neighboring county is any more or less 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.119 impacted by what's been covered in the media. Let they 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:12.440 know about it them than Latin. 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.800 As of the date of this recording June twenty seventh, 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:19.600 twenty twenty four, a decision on change of venue has 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.200 not been decided. There was a pretrial hearing today where 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.399 it was speculated the decision may come down, but that 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:31.240 is not the case. Here's Stephanie as the debate over 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.840 the venue takes place. We found it interesting that Coburger 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.200 is housed literally below the courthouse in the basement. That's 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.600 where the county jail is, and he's been there since 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:44.320 January fourth, twenty twenty three. The jail itself is about 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.399 two thousand square feet and houses approximately seventeen inmates at 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:53.119 any time. So for comparison, according to US Census data, 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.960 the average newly built house in the US measures approximately 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.520 twenty three hundred square feet, so the average new built 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.439 house is actually bigger than where Coburger and his fellow 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.640 inmates are being housed at this time. News Nation did 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.520 a really good job breaking down a little bit of 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.480 his life behind bars. We know that there are about 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.960 three guards working at any one time, and when Coburger 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.360 goes out for exercise for one hour a day, he's 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.720 always with guards. There's been a lot made about him 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:26.480 receiving special treatment, specifically the fact that he has vegan 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:30.760 meals or new suits and a computer in his own television. 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.520 According to reports, his meals are primarily rice and beans 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.840 and vegetables. He has a computer, or at least access 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:40.640 to one, just like any other inmate. He can use 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.639 a thumb drive to look at documents related to his case, 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.280 make notes, and then get those back to his attorney. 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:48.040 That's pretty status quo. 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.280 As for him having his own television, that's because he's 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.080 not in the general population, and it's been noted that 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.040 the TV is actually outside of his cell, so he 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:01.280 can watch it between the bars and to other inmates 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:04.480 who can sometimes hear what he's listening to or watching. 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.280 He's apparently very interested in the coverage of his own case. 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.400 Something else interesting about his routine is that he apparently 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:15.360 attends mass at the jail library. That's the only time 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.399 he's actually allowed to be with fellow inmates, and he 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.800 speaks to a priest. In a Daily Mail exclusive, pastor 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.600 Mike Hall, who heads at the special group that sends 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:28.960 ministers into jails, is quoted as saying, we don't tell 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.280 folks that we will relieve them of their responsibility of 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:35.919 their crimes end quote. But he does speak to somebody 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.080 one on one occasionally. Outlets have reported that he's been 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.480 a model prisoner, even though he sometimes gets taunted by 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:46.800 other inmates while he's walking by. And one other curious thing, 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.399 Brian Coberger is apparently getting a lot of attention from women. 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:54.040 There are apparently cohorts of women who are reaching out 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:59.520 to him because they have romantic interest in him. 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.919 Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:14.359 a moment. Following is a quick conversation that happened between Stephanie, 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:18.680 journalist Connor Powell and Body Moven. This short chat sent 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:20.800 us pretty far down the path on this topic. 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.200 One of the topics that came up was this idea 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.720 of people who fall in love or have obsessions with 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:32.119 criminals who are in prison who have been particularly the 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:34.480 ones who have been accused of murder. And there was 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.199 the phrase that was thrown out was hybristophelia, which is 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.680 this idea of sexual attraction in response to somebody who's 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:43.160 committed a heinous crime. 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:46.879 It just really makes you wonder the why, right. This 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:48.960