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Speaker 1: It was such a heart wrenching murder that he can't

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Speaker 1: get a fair trial in that community.

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Speaker 2: In the interest of justice. I don't think the families

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Speaker 2: want to wait. I don't think justice wants to wait.

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Speaker 3: This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KAT Studios

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Speaker 3: and iHeartRadio, Season two, Episode eight, Change of Venue. I'm

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Speaker 3: Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker

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Speaker 3: and Gabe Castillo. There have been more than a dozen

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Speaker 3: pre trial hearings in the state of Idaho versus Brian Coberger.

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Speaker 3: The trial had an original start date of October twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three, but nearly a year later, many issues still

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Speaker 3: remain to be decided, including determining if Laidakh County still

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Speaker 3: has a viable jury pool.

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Speaker 4: New court filings reveal the defense thinks that quote a

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Speaker 4: fair and impartial jury cannot be found in Laytak County.

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Speaker 4: They add that enlarging the jury pool will not do

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Speaker 4: anything to overcome that pervasive prejudicial publicity because Laytak County

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Speaker 4: does not have a large enough population center to avoid

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Speaker 4: the bias in the community.

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Speaker 3: Setting a trial date and battling over change of venue

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Speaker 3: are inextricably intertwined. We spoke with many experts to understand

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Speaker 3: the intricacies of the pretrial hearings. Stephanie as journalist Connor

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Speaker 3: Powell what he thought about the change of venue request

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Speaker 3: on the defense's part.

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Speaker 1: This is where the judge and defense prosecution are going

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Speaker 1: to essentially battle over change of venue, which he wants

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Speaker 1: to see it moved out of Moscow, Idaho, because their

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Speaker 1: argument is that he can't get a fair trial there.

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Speaker 1: It was such a dramatic and just really the heart

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Speaker 1: wrenching murder that he can't get a fair trial in

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Speaker 1: that community. And the judge might see it that way,

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Speaker 1: they might not. That's sort of up for discussion. The

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Speaker 1: other issue is where the trial should happen in when,

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Speaker 1: and it's a small town. Right where this murder took

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Speaker 1: place and where the trial is likely to take place

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Speaker 1: is a small community. There's a school right across the

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Speaker 1: street from the courthouse. And one of the arguments for

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Speaker 1: pushing this back, in delaying this is to do it

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Speaker 1: during the summer so that the media onslaught that's going

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Speaker 1: to happen with this trial doesn't impact the local community,

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Speaker 1: particularly the students, the kids of that community.

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Speaker 5: And also in the university, So that seemed like a

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Speaker 5: pretty smart plan. That was initially going to be this summer.

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Speaker 5: We were thinking July August of twenty twenty four. Now

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Speaker 5: that it's pushing so far, Look, I get it, he's

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Speaker 5: going to have to have a trial on the moon

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Speaker 5: to escape people knowing who he is. This is not

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Speaker 5: only national news, it's become world news. And changing of

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Speaker 5: the venue sort of seems like that might just be

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Speaker 5: a delay process and would really slow things down. Or

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Speaker 5: if they changed the venue so that it's not one

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Speaker 5: that's directly across the street from a high school, it

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Speaker 5: sort of opens up the calendar potentially for them.

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Speaker 3: I spoke with Long Crimes True Crime reporter an Jeanette Levy,

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Speaker 3: who spent a lot of time in Moscow, Idaho, over

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Speaker 3: the past two years.

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Speaker 6: What you have to understand is in Moscow, that is

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Speaker 6: a town of twenty five thousand, that's a college town.

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Speaker 6: And when I was there, the wound that this crime

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Speaker 6: created in that community, the pain, the grief really struck

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Speaker 6: people and stunned them. When I went to businesses trying

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Speaker 6: to talk to people about it, they felt like they

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Speaker 6: were personally wounded by this. It just took such a

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Speaker 6: toll that the influx of media and this is like

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Speaker 6: a place that should be happy and I and you know,

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Speaker 6: this was a small community that took this personally. And

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Speaker 6: you could tell that in speaking to people there. They

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Speaker 6: were doing their best to go about life every day

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Speaker 6: and running their businesses and getting their kids off to school.

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Speaker 6: But this was a horror that unfolded in that town.

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Speaker 6: And so it was a huge deal when an arrest

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Speaker 6: was made, and people may or may not have formed

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Speaker 6: really inflexible if you would opinions about that. You know,

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Speaker 6: they may have decided this happened and somebody's got to

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Speaker 6: pay for it. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened,

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Speaker 6: but it's possible. So I could see how moving it

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Speaker 6: might probably just be the best thing to do. And

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Speaker 6: I'm not talking a couple of towns over, I mean

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Speaker 6: maybe a few counties over. Who knows where they would

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Speaker 6: move it, but I know that An Taylor has suggested

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Speaker 6: Ada County, which is Boise. It's a bigger population center,

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Speaker 6: it has a more min courthouse Leyta County. It's a

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Speaker 6: very small courthouse.

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Speaker 3: So so for clarity, you mentioned Anne Taylor, and to

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Speaker 3: remind listeners, Miss Taylor is Brian Coberger's defense attorney, Anginae.

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Speaker 3: Are you able to describe the courthouse and specifically its

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Speaker 3: proximity to the school. I know that's been a major issue.

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Speaker 6: The courthouse is directly across the street from Moscow High School,

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Speaker 6: directly across the street. I mean, you can't get any

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Speaker 6: closer than that. And the courthouse is older, it's a

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Speaker 6: small facility. It's connected to the sheriff's office. You know,

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Speaker 6: the county's a county of forty thousand people. That's not

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Speaker 6: very big, So you know, you've got the cute little

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Speaker 6: downtown area, the courthouse kind of up the hill from there,

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Speaker 6: and the sheriff's office. In the courthouse, it's a building

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Speaker 6: that kind of isn't an L shape, and then the

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Speaker 6: high school is right across the street, so it's very quaint,

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Speaker 6: it's very cute. It's a small town.

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Speaker 3: Ann Taylor has said that summer twenty twenty five maybe

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Speaker 3: too soon. Then are we looking at summer twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: six in order to not interfere with high school and college?

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Speaker 6: And they made it sound like, I mean, the prosecution

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Speaker 6: thinks this is going to be a six week trial.

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Speaker 6: She thought it would be much longer.

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Speaker 3: I think fifteen week was her projection if I remember correctly.

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Speaker 3: So it's a pretty big disparity.

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Speaker 6: I would have to know more about what the prosecution's

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Speaker 6: thought process is on their case. But six weeks for

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Speaker 6: a case like this total, especially if you even get

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Speaker 6: to the mitigation phase, Wow, that's ambitious. Obviously the defense

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Speaker 6: is going to fight. It sounds like they're going to

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Speaker 6: put up a fight. They're going to be calling experts.

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Speaker 6: I'm sure they'll do their best to cross examine witnesses

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Speaker 6: and do their best to discredit thing, you know, witnesses

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Speaker 6: through cross examination. But who knows what they have planned.

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Speaker 6: She's arguing for a change of venue, and you can't

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Speaker 6: tell me that somebody like me. I'm pouring over this

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Speaker 6: stuff every time something is filed because that's my job

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Speaker 6: and I'm interested in it and I need to be

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Speaker 6: able to convey stuff accurately to the public. But I

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Speaker 6: don't think maybe your average juror is sitting there monitoring

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Speaker 6: the Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest website waiting to look

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Speaker 6: at this, and if they move the trial, you know,

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Speaker 6: she's got a jury expert that's going to come in

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Speaker 6: and say that, leta county's biased and they can't have

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Speaker 6: the trial there. Well, if you're going to move it somewhere,

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Speaker 6: then you're going to have a bigger jury pool, potentially

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Speaker 6: a larger pool of people from which to choose. And

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Speaker 6: the longer this gets drawn out, the more memories will fade.

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Speaker 3: But even the change of venue, I mean, that's obviously

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Speaker 3: Defense Attorney Taylor is trying really hard to get that changed.

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Speaker 3: But what even is the difference of moving a couple

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Speaker 3: of towns over in terms of people knowing or not

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Speaker 3: knowing about this case that is in the news all

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 6: Normal people are busy. Cell phones have changed everything, of course,

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Speaker 6: but they're not always on their phones looking at every

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Speaker 6: little development in a case.

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Speaker 3: Data Analyst's Body move In is a super sleuth who

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Speaker 3: you may know from Netflix is Don't Have with Cats.

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Speaker 3: She has some additional thoughts on the merit of a

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Speaker 3: potential change of venue.

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Speaker 2: I do think that they're going to move it, though,

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Speaker 2: I really do, and I think it just makes sense

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Speaker 2: more logistically than anything else. The tiny, itty bitty little town.

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Speaker 2: You know, the media is going to be all over this.

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Speaker 2: People are going to be traveling to try to attend

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Speaker 2: this trial. Logistically, I don't know that the city or

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Speaker 2: town of Moscow can handle all the people. And we've

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Speaker 2: been Courtney, we follow trials and this is what we do, right.

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Speaker 2: I just don't think in the interest of justice, I

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Speaker 2: don't think the families want to wait. I don't think

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Speaker 2: justice wants to wait. I do think it should move

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Speaker 2: it not necessarily because the jury pool, just for logistical regions.

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Speaker 2: It's just I just don't think it's going to be

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Speaker 2: a good thing.

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Speaker 3: What you just said is common sense, But it somehow

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Speaker 3: had not occurred to.

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Speaker 2: Me another year for all those families to wait right

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Speaker 2: to find out what happened to their children and limbo.

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Speaker 2: Especially in capital cases, there's so many pre hearing motions

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Speaker 2: and things that have to be done. And while preparing

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Speaker 2: the defense and preparing the you know, the prosecution. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think media has taken a unique turn, especially with

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Speaker 2: true crime reporting. Right you have people who are independent

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Speaker 2: I'm using quotes independent journalists right now, who are you know,

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Speaker 2: their living is on YouTube and social media and they

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Speaker 2: were you know, they make little press passes for themselves

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Speaker 2: and whatnot, and they harass people to get information, and

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Speaker 2: I just can't imagine this trial happening while kids are

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Speaker 2: at school on recess playing so in the field that's

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Speaker 2: facing the court and possibly being on a YouTube channel.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: I would go crazy, and I think you're right that

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Speaker 3: parents would go crazy.

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Speaker 2: Of course, we all want justice, I mean, everybody wants justice.

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Speaker 2: But imagine living in that town and you have a

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Speaker 2: thirteen year old child who has to go to school

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Speaker 2: and wade through all the reporters to get there. I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying that would happen, but it could, and I

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Speaker 2: don't think the community of Moscow would like that.

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Speaker 7: Now.

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Speaker 2: I do think that the people of Moscow do want

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Speaker 2: justice served by them by their community because this happened

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Speaker 2: in their community and they want to be the ones

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Speaker 2: to see it through.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: I think they're good, hardworking Americans that believe in the

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Speaker 2: system and want to see things through. I absolutely believe that.

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Speaker 2: I just don't know if they're going to be able

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Speaker 2: to be able to get that done in time for

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Speaker 2: school to be at a session, and that includes the

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Speaker 2: university too, because the town is full. It's while the

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Speaker 2: kids are in school. I think it's going to have

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Speaker 2: to move. Justice moves so slowly. I just don't believe

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Speaker 2: they're going to be ready in time. I just don't.

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Speaker 2: I am not a victim's family or you know, part

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Speaker 2: of the community of Moscow, so it's easy for me

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Speaker 2: to say the judges should just move it and get

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Speaker 2: it over with and move on and get to the

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Speaker 2: issues at hand.

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Speaker 3: Let's stop here for a break. We'll lead back in

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Speaker 3: a moment to get a better understanding of the judicial

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Speaker 3: practices that come into play with potential change of venue.

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Speaker 3: I spoke with kirk Nermi, knowing that Coberger's defense attorney

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Speaker 3: Ann Taylor wants to change of venue. I asked, if

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Speaker 3: the judge alone makes the final decision.

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Speaker 8: Well, ultimately, there's just kind of a default assessment that

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Speaker 8: the jurisdiction of the court of a particular county. I

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Speaker 8: believe that in this case is Letagh County is that

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Speaker 8: is the court that assesses and judge and tries all

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Speaker 8: crimes that are committed in that county. So that is

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Speaker 8: the general presumption, if you will, A defense can look

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Speaker 8: to change venue if they feel as if to another jurisdiction,

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Speaker 8: another county, district, what have you. However, the state is

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Speaker 8: set up within the boundaries of that state, and what

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Speaker 8: they have to do in order to motivate that to

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Speaker 8: happen is they have to assert facts to substantiate the

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Speaker 8: idea that their client cannot get a fair trial in

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Speaker 8: the county or district or what have you, in the

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Speaker 8: court that they are presently in front of.

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Speaker 3: I'm not asking you for statistics, but I guess how

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Speaker 3: rare is it to have the trial changed out of

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Speaker 3: the county in which the crime was committed.

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Speaker 8: Well, I'm glad you didn't ask for statistics because I

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Speaker 8: couldn't give you any, but I will say it's rare,

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Speaker 8: but much more common in a high profile case, because

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Speaker 8: when a case gets so much attention in an area,

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Speaker 8: and we're really talking about media assassination, be that traditional

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Speaker 8: media or social media, and how many people have prejudged

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Speaker 8: the case in a particular area. For example, small counties

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Speaker 8: have a smaller population of a jury pool to draw from.

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Speaker 8: Maybe there's a higher percentage of people in that county

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Speaker 8: that already know about the case, that sort of thing.

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Speaker 8: So that becomes the defensive job to demonstrate that bias

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Speaker 8: that would violate the sixth Amendment, and it becomes incumbent

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Speaker 8: on the judge to make the decision. The prosecutor in

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Speaker 8: some cases might relent. They might say, yeah, this is

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Speaker 8: not going to be a county where you can get

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Speaker 8: a fair trial, but ultimately that decision lies with the judge.

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Speaker 3: After speaking with Kirk, I got curious if there were

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Speaker 3: any statistics on change of venue and found a survey

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Speaker 3: out by the University of San Diego. The survey analyzed

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Speaker 3: murder trials from twenty to twenty twenty across all fifty states.

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Speaker 3: There were many mitigating factors, but the success rate of

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Speaker 3: change of venue was just twenty three point five percent.

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Speaker 3: Here Stephen Greenberg, attorney and former prosecutor, elaborates on the

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Speaker 3: potential outcomes for the change of venue in this case.

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Speaker 7: The norm is they're not going to get a change

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Speaker 7: your venue, and you can always get a jury. By

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Speaker 7: the way, people sometimes they like because they want to

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Speaker 7: sit on the jury. You know, we had a case

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Speaker 7: involving a very important political figure, all headlines. Did you

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Speaker 7: ever read anything about it? No, did you see anything

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Speaker 7: on TV? And of course they did it. But you

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Speaker 7: can always get a jury. And if I were the judge,

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Speaker 7: I would do everything in my power to keep it

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Speaker 7: from happening. Any judge worth is a ressault when want

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Speaker 7: it happened. Worst case, they'll bring in jurors from another area.

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Speaker 7: They can always be that, Oh I didn't know that.

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Speaker 7: And by the way, it's not unheard of to go

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Speaker 7: to a different venue and bring in a jury pool

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Speaker 7: from the neighboring area. You know, it's always subtle. They

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Speaker 7: just do subtle things. There's little things that happen during

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Speaker 7: a trial that can be very harmful or helpful. This

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Speaker 7: judge is not going to be helpful to a defense,

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Speaker 7: not at all, and he's going to keep the case.

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Speaker 3: I understand how unlikely you think it is for it

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Speaker 3: to move. But if a trial moves, does the judge

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Speaker 3: move with it? Is that possible or no?

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Speaker 7: Yes, any one of a number of things could happen. First,

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Speaker 7: the whole thing could be denied because they have enough

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Speaker 7: to get another pools. The other thing they can do

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Speaker 7: is the judge stays where the judge is and they

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Speaker 7: bring in jurors from a different place, which is what

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Speaker 7: I indicated earlier. The other thing is for the judge

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Speaker 7: himself for herself to move to a different venue and

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Speaker 7: pick a jury there. Any one of those three or possible.

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Speaker 3: Inside additions, Chris Spargoes shared his thoughts on security and

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Speaker 3: monetary issues involved with the trial's ultimate location. So you

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Speaker 3: talked about people in the area kind of feeling frustration

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Speaker 3: about how long this trial will be. Do you know

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Speaker 3: any other details about that or can you speak to that.

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Speaker 9: I heard there are concerns, which makes sense. I mean,

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Speaker 9: obviously that's another Again, that's another cost to if kids

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Speaker 9: are in school when that trial's going on, that's another

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Speaker 9: level of security you're gonna have to get to make sure,

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Speaker 9: you know, there's no sort of overlap. And I think

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Speaker 9: that's not something they really want to expose the kids too,

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Speaker 9: you know, sort of it's a very very very grim trial,

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Speaker 9: even the details. So I don't think, you know, you

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Speaker 9: want kids knowing about that, And I mean, I think

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Speaker 9: there's a general media attention. No one wants your tild

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Speaker 9: to be around the sort of media attention that's going

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Speaker 9: on with this trial. Like I can't imagine being a

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Speaker 9: parent knowing that, you know, eighty news trucks are outside

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Speaker 9: my kid's school while they're you know, that's just not

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Speaker 9: a way for a kid to live. And that's not

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Speaker 9: something you want for your child. So I think that's

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Speaker 9: sort of an understandable thing and they want to push it,

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Speaker 9: but again, push it or not, that's probably gonna be

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Speaker 9: another huge security.

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Speaker 3: Costs for them. Have you been to the courthouse.

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Speaker 9: I'm not. My colleague has been to the courthouse. I

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Speaker 9: am not much of the travelers. Nothing grand, and it's

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Speaker 9: it's which is kind of wild when you think about it,

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Speaker 9: because of the size of the trial. It also makes

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Speaker 9: it a big problem though, because of the amount of

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Speaker 9: power the media companies using and everything. I mean, it's

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Speaker 9: it's really a dream, you know, this this little courthouse

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Speaker 9: being surrounded by all these bands and all the supporters

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Speaker 9: and everything. It's it's kind of chaotic when when it's

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Speaker 9: these hearing and these are hearings are not even major

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Speaker 9: hearings right now, so to speak, you know, compared when

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Speaker 9: the actual trial starts. And even then, I mean, my

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Speaker 9: colleague said it was wild. How you barely get in

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Speaker 9: there's a million people around. It's really chaos.

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Speaker 3: Do you have an opinion on if the trial either

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Speaker 3: should move and or if the judge will decide to

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Speaker 3: move it.

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Speaker 9: I wish the trial would move for the sake of

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Speaker 9: the residents. I think that they've done enough. I think

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Speaker 9: they bared the burden of and I just just get

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Speaker 9: it out of there for those poor people. Like I mean,

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Speaker 9: I don't care. I don't think really care about the

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Speaker 9: jury so much. I you know, I know that's not

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Speaker 9: really the legal president or know how they decided, but

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Speaker 9: it just it would just be nice if it wasn't

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Speaker 9: there for them, Like I just feel so nice for them,

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Speaker 9: if people just got you know, outlandd As somewhere else.

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Speaker 9: I like I said before the I don't think you

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Speaker 9: could put that jury anywhere in the United States, you know,

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Speaker 9: and get a truly impartial jury who doesn't know anything

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Speaker 9: about Brian cop I'd be nice to have moved to

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Speaker 9: another county, just for like I said, just for the

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Speaker 9: people that live in Moscow. That'd be great. But I

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Speaker 9: think it's going to be hard for the defense to

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Speaker 9: prove that any neighboring county is any more or less

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Speaker 9: impacted by what's been covered in the media. Let they

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Speaker 9: know about it them than Latin.

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Speaker 3: As of the date of this recording June twenty seventh,

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, a decision on change of venue has

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Speaker 3: not been decided. There was a pretrial hearing today where

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Speaker 3: it was speculated the decision may come down, but that

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Speaker 3: is not the case. Here's Stephanie as the debate over

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Speaker 3: the venue takes place. We found it interesting that Coburger

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Speaker 3: is housed literally below the courthouse in the basement. That's

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Speaker 3: where the county jail is, and he's been there since

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Speaker 3: January fourth, twenty twenty three. The jail itself is about

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Speaker 3: two thousand square feet and houses approximately seventeen inmates at

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Speaker 3: any time. So for comparison, according to US Census data,

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Speaker 3: the average newly built house in the US measures approximately

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Speaker 3: twenty three hundred square feet, so the average new built

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Speaker 3: house is actually bigger than where Coburger and his fellow

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Speaker 3: inmates are being housed at this time. News Nation did

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Speaker 3: a really good job breaking down a little bit of

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Speaker 3: his life behind bars. We know that there are about

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Speaker 3: three guards working at any one time, and when Coburger

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Speaker 3: goes out for exercise for one hour a day, he's

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Speaker 3: always with guards. There's been a lot made about him

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Speaker 3: receiving special treatment, specifically the fact that he has vegan

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Speaker 3: meals or new suits and a computer in his own television.

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Speaker 3: According to reports, his meals are primarily rice and beans

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Speaker 3: and vegetables. He has a computer, or at least access

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Speaker 3: to one, just like any other inmate. He can use

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Speaker 3: a thumb drive to look at documents related to his case,

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Speaker 3: make notes, and then get those back to his attorney.

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Speaker 3: That's pretty status quo.

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Speaker 5: As for him having his own television, that's because he's

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Speaker 5: not in the general population, and it's been noted that

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Speaker 5: the TV is actually outside of his cell, so he

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Speaker 5: can watch it between the bars and to other inmates

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Speaker 5: who can sometimes hear what he's listening to or watching.

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Speaker 5: He's apparently very interested in the coverage of his own case.

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Speaker 5: Something else interesting about his routine is that he apparently

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Speaker 5: attends mass at the jail library. That's the only time

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Speaker 5: he's actually allowed to be with fellow inmates, and he

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Speaker 5: speaks to a priest. In a Daily Mail exclusive, pastor

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Speaker 5: Mike Hall, who heads at the special group that sends

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Speaker 5: ministers into jails, is quoted as saying, we don't tell

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Speaker 5: folks that we will relieve them of their responsibility of

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Speaker 5: their crimes end quote. But he does speak to somebody

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Speaker 5: one on one occasionally. Outlets have reported that he's been

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Speaker 5: a model prisoner, even though he sometimes gets taunted by

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Speaker 5: other inmates while he's walking by. And one other curious thing,

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Speaker 5: Brian Coberger is apparently getting a lot of attention from women.

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Speaker 5: There are apparently cohorts of women who are reaching out

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Speaker 5: to him because they have romantic interest in him.

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Speaker 3: Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in

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Speaker 3: a moment. Following is a quick conversation that happened between Stephanie,

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Speaker 3: journalist Connor Powell and Body Moven. This short chat sent

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Speaker 3: us pretty far down the path on this topic.

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Speaker 1: One of the topics that came up was this idea

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Speaker 1: of people who fall in love or have obsessions with

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Speaker 1: criminals who are in prison who have been particularly the

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Speaker 1: ones who have been accused of murder. And there was

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Speaker 1: the phrase that was thrown out was hybristophelia, which is

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Speaker 1: this idea of sexual attraction in response to somebody who's

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Speaker 1: committed a heinous crime.

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Speaker 5: It just really makes you wonder the why, right. This

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Speaker 5: seems to me like there has to be some sort

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Speaker 5: of unhealed trauma to never want your partner to come

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Speaker 5: home at night, is you know, kind of a tell

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Speaker 5: about something probably larger.

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Speaker 1: I was amazed as I was doing some digging today

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Speaker 1: a body that there are multiple social media sites dedicated

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Speaker 1: to the fascination and with people professing their love of

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Speaker 1: Brian Coburger. Is that something you've come across before in

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Speaker 1: criminal data research you've done before?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I have extensive knowledge on this disorder?

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Speaker 1: Is that extensive personal knowledge or just extensive knowledge?

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Speaker 3: Personal?

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Speaker 2: Okay, personal knowledge? So, as you all know, I was

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Speaker 2: in that Netflix documentary Donnov with Katz and the subject

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Speaker 2: was a murder that happened. You know, Luca Magnata was

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Speaker 2: the murderer, and I was in the documentary talking about

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Speaker 2: it and how he was caught and I was after him,

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Speaker 2: and you know all this right well after the documentary aired,

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Speaker 2: literally the first one hundred and fifty emails I got

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Speaker 2: were all from the same person telling me what a

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Speaker 2: scumbag I was because they're in love with Luca. And

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Speaker 2: to this day, you know, this documentary aired in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 2: the end of twenty nineteen, so it's been four years.

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Speaker 2: Right to this day, I still get hate mail from

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Speaker 2: people who are obsessed with Luca Mgnata and how dare I?

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Speaker 2: And it's it's absolutely wild.

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Speaker 7: It gives me the creeps.

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Speaker 5: Is that because they don't think that he did it,

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Speaker 5: and that they just feel like he's been wrongfully accused

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Speaker 5: and he's just cute man behind bars.

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Speaker 2: It's a mix. It's a mix of people that are

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Speaker 2: trying to be like edge lords. There's many reasons people

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Speaker 2: have this disorder, right, It's there's low self esteem issues.

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Speaker 2: People believe they can change him. Others just see it

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Speaker 2: like a little boy that the killer once was and

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Speaker 2: he wasn't protected and he needs to be nurtured. There's

437
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 2: many different reasons. Not many people think he's innocent.

438
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: I was gonna say part of the arousal, right, part

439
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: of the attraction is that he did do it, right,

440
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 1: Like that's right kind of what they get off on.

441
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's part of it is this is a really

442
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 2: dangerous person and if I can get them to love me,

443
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 2: I'm one of the people he would never hurt or

444
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: you know, I'm protected. There's many different reasons that people

445
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 2: have this, and I think that you know, the people

446
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: that have this disorder think that, oh well, if I

447
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 2: love him, he's not going to be a danger. But

448
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 2: there's like a whole subreddit dedicated to the love.

449
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's sort of two groups on social media of

450
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 1: people who are defending Coburger, saying he didn't do it right.

451
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: And then there's this other little subgroup that you see,

452
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: which is like they sort of acknowledge, or maybe they

453
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: don't fully acknowledge, but they are turned on by what

454
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 1: he did. And you're right, it goes into that he

455
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: would never do it to me, and I can change him.

456
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean the people who think he's innocent are

457
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 2: not in this group of they call themselves bribrise. They're

458
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 2: not in this group of bribebries. They like photoshop his

459
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: images and the pictures they have literal alters with his

460
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 2: mug shots and you know, with the turtle suit on.

461
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 2: They make like fan cams on Twitter of him like

462
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: entering court and it's like in slow motion with like

463
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 2: music playing, and a lot of it too. I think

464
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: is the edge lord mentality. Right, I'm gonna piss off

465
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: everyone I know because I am patrol. You know, a

466
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 2: lot of it is trolling. They want a reaction, they

467
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 2: want the attention, they want people to be absolutely outraged

468
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: by their behavior. It's an internetroal, but they do exist,

469
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 2: and it is an actual disorder. There's many papers written

470
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,959
Speaker 2: on it. I had to go study this because I

471
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 2: was getting a lot of like threats, you know, literal

472
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 2: threats against my own life. But if you look at history,

473
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,479
Speaker 2: look at how many women were fascinated with Ted Bundy

474
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 2: and even to this day still are. And the bride

475
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 2: Rice Compare Brian Coberger to Ted Bundy, It's absolutely wild.

476
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 3: More on that next time. For more information on the

477
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 3: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at KT

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00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 3: Underscore Studios. The Idaho Masker is produced by Stephanie Leideger,

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00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 3: Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design

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00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,719
Speaker 3: by Jeff Toois, Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Masker

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00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 3: is a production of KT's Studios and iHeartRadio. For more

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00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 3: podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 3: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.