WEBVTT - Ginni Rometty on the Technology Agenda for the US 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.920 These sees Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:08.039 Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio. Well, the next guest had, as 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:10.360 we said earlier at front row seat to five decades 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.000 of technological and social change. It's about eight years as 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:15.200 CEO of one of the iconic tech firms of the 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:18.119 past century. We're talking about IBM, and yet, as she 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:20.320 says in her new book, she's not writing about technology 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.040 or I am, but rather about how we can all 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.439 drive meaningful change in positive ways for all. She calls 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.360 this good power. We are so delighted to have with us. 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:31.960 The former chairman and CEO of IBM, Jinny Rometti, her 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:35.320 new book is good Power, leading positive change in our lives, 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.320 work and world. She's here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio, 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:41.960 Pens and Needles. So delighted to have you here. Congratulations, 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:44.320 Thank you very much. As big milestone two years in 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:48.279 the making, right, it's always oh yeah, we never expected 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:50.720 how hard it would be. That's what everybody says. I 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:52.240 have to say, and I think Mike and I would 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:55.120 both agree that when we started reading this, it start. 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:57.680 It didn't start like I expected it too, And I'm 0:00:57.680 --> 0:00:59.840 sure everybody who talks to you starts there. But it 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.360 is a very personal story, a very real and revealing story. 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.840 Talk to us about your family and your dad leaving. Yes, 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:08.840 it's one of the many moments I speak of, but 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.039 because I think we're all shaped like, how we lead 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:13.199 today has a lot to do with what we experienced 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:16.200 in the past. And I was sixteen when my father 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.480 decided one day that he abandoned my mom and our 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:22.200 whole family. He didn't realize. I walked into the garage 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:23.880 and heard him, and I heard him say to her, 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:26.440 I don't care about you. I don't care about any 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:28.160 of you. You can go work on the street for 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:30.760 all I care. And how do you process that as 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:32.960 a sixteen year old? Well, and you had younger siblings. 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.440 I had younger siblings. Yes, I stood there, and I 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.840 think I reacted because I watched my mom and she 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.000 didn't cry, She turned around, she walked out. Effect I 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.880 never saw a cry. And here she was the as 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.840 I think now, thirty four years old, four kids, never 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:48.840 worked a day in her life, hadn't gone to college, 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:52.600 just barely through high school. But she was so determined. 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:54.920 So what I the reason I start there and the 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:56.200 only reason I wrote a boo. Do you know you 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:59.040 were going to start there? No, absolutely did not know that. 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:01.560 In fact, my collaborator helped me to start there, because 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.560 it's a very vulnerable moment to start. But the reason 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.320 is to celebrate what she did and how she reacted, 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:11.000 because it's like I saw my grandmother and great grandmother 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.960 both had big tragedies in their life, and I saw 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:17.200 that she had power to change something when she had 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.520 nothing else. And that's kind of the premise of the book, 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:23.440 that we all have more than we think. And she 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:25.440 was like, I'm not going to be a divorce, I'm 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:27.079 not going to be someone on food stamps. I'm not 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.320 going to let it end this way. And she got 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.360 a little bit of education, a little bit of education, 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:33.959 a better job, a little bit better and she never 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.720 did get a degree. But it's the other thing, Well, 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:40.120 two things I learned she taught us never let anyone 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.440 define who you are, only you are. He was never 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.200 going to define her as those things. And it's so 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:46.800 easy to go in the other direction. It is very 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.440 easy to be defined as a victim and feel a victim. 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.720 And the second thing was that you know someone's access 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.640 to education in their aptitude are not equal. Meaning my 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.480 mom really wasn't dumb. She's never had access to anything, 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.560 and that would be a silver thread through my whole 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.360 life that I would find to be true about you know, 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:07.720 how people can get skills and into me. Why I 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:09.880 work today on this when I think is so unfair 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.400 in this country and it's very solvable. How many jobs 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:15.720 have been over credential to require a college degree when 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:17.520 they don't need one, and so many people in this 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:19.120 country don't have one, especially when you think in a 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.240 tight labor market, maybe things could be done. I'm hoping 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:25.040 yet absolutely well, Jenny, one of the more touching things 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:27.600 in the book to me was and you mentioned, you know, 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.640 your mom was embarrassed that on occasions she would have 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.880 to use food stamps and would actually drive to the 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:36.640 next town over, so no one saw her. Really kind 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.800 of heartwrenching moment in the book. But I wonder, you know, 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:43.200 having seen the economy from both sides, now, what do 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.280 you think about the social safety net in the US 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.880 right now? Could it be done better? Is there a 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.000 different way, better way to it? I am a believer 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.320 in it right that it's needed and it's needed for 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.640 what I saw with my mom, it's to transition people. 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.200 It's not a permanent thing. And that's to me, what 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.120 can be done better is the transition part, to transition 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.200 you to a better place. That's what it did for us. 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:06.600 It transitioned us to a better place. She had to 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.040 do it till she didn't have to do it, and 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.040 I really feel accompanying it has to be all these 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.480 things about getting people the skill so they can get 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.200 a decent job. And that was really, you know, what 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:19.840 my mom fell into. But it's such a I think, 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.320 a very practical I find it. I've had a decade 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.560 of working on this topic that with some skill doesn't 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.880 have to be a degree. We can give people lots 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.279 of new jobs right now. So safety net until you 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.120 get there, all right, So talk to us about getting 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:35.440 to IBM in nineteen eighty one. My dad was an 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:40.400 engineer too. You were an engineer, an engineer, open arms 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.200 easy for a woman, Yeah, you know. Okay, So this 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.039 is I'm sorry to have to say that's critical. I 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:47.040 just meant yes, I'm going to answer that two ways. 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.919 Because tech is not known for obviously for its diversity, 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.640 so I would often be the only woman but my 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:56.400 first three managers at IBM were women, and so I 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.039 have to just credit it is a company of meritocracy 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.760 and inclusion that goes way back before me. So I 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:03.720 was really lucky to grow up in a place like 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.080 that that for the most part, although for the times, right, 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:09.520 I mean, it's all relative. But the only thing I 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:11.000 remember when I went, I mean, I never won a 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.919 suit before I came home from my interview, as I 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:15.880 wrote it, took my jacket off, and my husband's like, 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:17.440 what's on your arm. I'm like, well, it's my first 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:21.039 suit and that is the price taggion. Still I'm like, 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:24.839 how gracious they never mentioned it, you know, yeah, absolutely, 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:27.400 well go ahead, Mike. Oh no, I was gonna say, 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:29.839 you know, so much has changed in the tech world 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.760 in the last few years, with the trade war and everything. 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.359 And I'm thinking back to a boy it must be 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.840 twenty years ago when Lenovo bought the PC business for IBM. 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.120 I can't help but think that that deal would ever 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.000 go down today. It was in this climate. So how 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.720 do you see all of that going, This whole tension 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.760 over tech between the US and China. Yeah, And if 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:53.920 I've been to China once, I've been there fifty times 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:56.760 and over my life, and to me this boils down. 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:58.559 I've always said in the past, when people talk about 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:03.040 it is coopetition and competition. I mean, I've really believed 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.279 that the safest world is an interdependent world. That is 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:10.039 the safest world, and that right now, I've also felt 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:11.520 the only reason I was ever in China was if 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:13.640 I could do something better than than the Chinese could 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.160 do it. So, in other words, your only route is 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.880 to out innovate. And so when we think about what 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.120 to do now, I am really happy to see the 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.080 US finally really take under a serious you know, you 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:26.120 would call it a technology agenda for the country. Right, 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.520 It's been a long time since we've really had one, 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:30.919 And I go back in time you said, yeah, Unfortunately, 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.760 I've been around it five decades when some of our 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.520 greatest technology innovations all started in the government and then 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:38.960 we're commercialized by private sector. That was the way it 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.640 was done. So now we finally have a national technology 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.680 agenda and yep, okay, fine, let them go off. Now 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.440 we got to of course protect our intellectual property and 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:49.680 do it better. And I mean that is to me 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:51.320 what the focus has to be and of course some 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.279 of the most sophisticated of course, you know, those not 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:57.320 aligned you don't want to have fall into the wrong hands. 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:58.839 And so that's how it'll be. But I'd love to 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:03.120 see it more around both competition and cooperation. But do 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.400 you see, Jenny, that there's a clear division between the 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.840 US and its technology powers in China doing it like 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.640 it's not the globalization that we've been living for so 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:13.720 long it is. What do I see a difference between 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:15.640 the two types? Well, just meaning that there's going to 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.240 be not the cooperation yet not as much cooperation, but 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:20.600 there are things we can cooperate on the environment, okay, 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.240 and technologies around the environment. I think about that. And 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:25.240 then on the other side, No, we've got to have 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.080 our own race and really be the best in the world. 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.440 So much of the US prosperity has been driven by 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.960 America being the leader in technology right by far across 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.360 any other country, and that's what we have to continue. 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.280 And so, like I said, that's why I'm glad to 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.400 see it. And then so we will continue our out 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.800 innovating part of that. Immigration needs to be part of that. Yes, 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.080 I agree with that. I've always said that you know, 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.240 skills have no passport, and this idea that ideas flow 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:54.160 without a passport too. And I really believe in an 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:57.160 essentral part of America actually is that ability to bring 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:59.640 in skills and be a destination for people who want 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.760 to innovate in a country that has rule of law 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.960 protects ip. I mean, that is what brought people here. 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:06.640 There are other countries in the world that you see 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.080 when they have focused on that they've blossomed. When they close, 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.000 they don't. So that is a that is a concern. 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.760 Carol Master, Mike Reagan and our Bloomberg Interactor Brokers Studio 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:17.960 still with us as Jenny Rometti, of course, former chairman 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.480 and CEO of IBM, her new book out, Good Power 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.160 Leading positive change in our lives, work and world. Excuse me, 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:28.080 good power versus bad power? Yeah, great question. What's the difference? 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:31.880 To me? The difference is good power does three different 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:33.679 things versus about how to do hard things in a 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.400 good way, in a good way right now, that would 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:40.000 mean go toward attension, don't polarize yourself. So in other words, 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.320 I really believe like, embrace tension. That's a good thing, 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.840 do it respectfully and then just celebrate progress not perfection, 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.040 and so much of what it's like my way or 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:51.960 your way. Okay, I'm like, okay, we're never gonna get 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:53.719 anywhere if that's the two views we're going to take. 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.160 And so if you do those three things, really practice 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:00.840 them in like especially tension. I learned to love conflict 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.480 intention because I always knew something better was going to 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:05.400 come out the other end if I would really go 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.840 into it and listen. And it was. But intention is today, 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.160 I know. But you know what I mean, Like the 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:15.040 divides and I a conflicting view. It's gotten so ugly, 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.680 so polar. I so I feel like it's its moment 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.840 that that no, with all this division, there is another 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.560 way to go about this, that that brings people together 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.360 and it doesn't divide them. And so that's kind of 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:27.000 what the book is meant to be. All these little 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.440 tips about that I learned from watching lots of great 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.800 people over the years on how they did that, and 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:33.800 that you know, you ask young people today, hey, do 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:35.439 you want to be powerful? They're like, no, no, no, 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.480 I want to solve important problems. And I'm like, irony 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.360 is you're going to need power to do that. And 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.360 so it's how you exercise it. So I actually end 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:45.839 the book with a handwritten note that it says your 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.600 greatest legacy maybe how you do your work, not what 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.160 you did. You don't, Jinny. When I think back on 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.840 your tenure at IBM, what an amazing transition that company 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.800 made during your time, you know, really moving from a 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:02.880 hardware primarily business US to services, cloud, everything else. And 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:04.760 you retired in twenty twenty. But I look at the 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.199 stock price of IBM, and after an awful stock market 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.319 last year, IBM pretty much reached a record high towards 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:13.880 at the end of twenty twenty. So I feel like 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:15.880 there's got to be some things you'd want to brag 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.679 about from that from that era, you know, because it 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.840 wasn't easy that. I'm sure you had some fights there 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:23.880 to make these changes. What do you think the most 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.360 important changes are. What's the sort of top line on 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.040 your resume from from your tenure there that allowed IBM 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.400 to become the company it is. Yeah, I mean what 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:34.240 I did was give it a foundation for growth. I 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:36.840 believe in me. The lots of IBM ers worked hard, 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:38.800 and I think this striking point is it's not just 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.520 what I did. We had to change how we worked, 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:43.160 and so yes, we had to move into all these 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.560 new areas. That's what everyone talks about hybrid cloud. We 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.480 had to move you know, faster into AI, etc. But 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.960 changing how so that you could work faster, that you 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:55.720 could consumerize stuff because it's so unfair to say to 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.360 a workforce, you know, hey, run a marathon, but do 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.080 it in hiking boots. I mean, so, I think the 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.560 biggest thing would be around changing how work was done 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.480 and all of our work around diversity and inclusion. We 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:09.800 had records on all of those. You said the magic 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:13.000 word there, jinny AI. That's all I was waiting for 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.280 you to talk about right now. So how do you 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.400 see this all playing out? Chat GBT yah, Google's efforts, IBM, 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:21.840 where's it all going? Well, look, I am a big 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.280 believer in AI, but I have always believed it would 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.679 make men better man humanity. Yeah, and that you've got 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:29.000 to think of it that way. I've been at this 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:33.240 for way decades now, and I think finally it's reached 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:35.640 for us and everyone's conscious. Right, That's what chat GPT did. 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:37.960 It made it like come to the forefront. Because AI 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:42.360 has come in and out of interest over as winter. 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:44.960 They call it AI winters, many of them. So now 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.400 it's in front of everyone. To me, it is finally 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.920 teed up the most important issue with technology, which is 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.400 that if we don't build trust into this technology, it 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:56.319 is going to have a very bad ending. And it's 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.720 a sha we do that. We acquire regulators, like how 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.640 do we ab I have a very strong view. Trust 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.320 comes when you manage the up and the downsides of 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.520 something at the same time. So that means, all right, 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.520 I introduced yet all right, do people understand it? Is 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.000 it explainable? We got to get that done quickly? Do 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.800 they know how it's trained? Garbage in, garbage out? All right? 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.160 And it makes sense? And then depending on the kind 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.440 of problem I really tell people to use it for, 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.040 they have a very different tolerance level I learned on technology. 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.400 If it's searching, you get a wrong movie back, you 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:31.760 don't care. If it's about your health, you care. You 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:33.960 got a bad answer, even though your human doctor could 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.520 be wrong some percentage of depending on the doctor of time. 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.400 So this idea of trust means take responsibility for it. 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.280 So the onus is on companies. It's gonna be on companies, 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.520 the users and the builders have even greater responsibility. Out 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.840 always felt that, and so that you are telling people 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:51.920 a how to use it, be what it's trained with, 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.240 or see let's say I train it and it's my 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.599 proprietary data. I don't want that train thing going to 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:58.760 the next guy. So we got to work on all 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.720 this at once. You need regulation. Here's my big point 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:05.880 on regulation, precision regulation. Do you like that you can 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.320 open your phone with your face? That makes it pretty fast, 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.320 gloves on you don't want to do, okay, but you 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.240 don't like facial recognition for things like racial profiling. So 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:16.880 we should regulate the uses of it, not the technology itself. 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.280 Because we try doing that. People who make laws don't 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.120 really understand the details of it that this is going 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:23.600 to go nowhere, but they do understand the uses, and 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:25.959 so that would be how I would do the regulation, 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.200 because you want it to flourish. I have tried to 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.640 whole technology trends back in the past. You can't stop them. 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.080 Do you think this is like kind of the biggest 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:35.120 thing that's going to be just I think it's a 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.560 really big turning point, and I actually think it's got 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.160 the propensity to make you and me do our jobs better, 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:42.120 and so I think it's going to bring and can 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.240 uplift a lot of people into better jobs. At the 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.440 same time, we got to mitigate the downsides. And that's 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:51.400 like active just like social media. Right, yes, great, great, great, 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:53.360 until then there were some bad things. You'd like to 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.079 have pulled back the clock and said, let's work on 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.360 the bad at the same time. Does that making it 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.880 a little nervous? Though that social media has had its problems, 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.480 still get me from all of this we learned, yet 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.960 we're not well. I think that now when you talk 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.240 about all the companies involved, and you know, you talk 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.280 about banks using a telcos. These are mature companies. They 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.240 recognize that the one attribute they have the world cares 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.600 about his trust. And so I think when you think 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.040 that way, you're going to think twice about how you 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.840 introduce it to the world. So I'm hopeful about that. Well, 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.160 there's that risk of backlash too, you know, I'm thinking 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:27.120 back too. Yeah, if people don't understand something, fear and revolt. Right. Well, 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:30.680 remember when IBM's Big Blues started beating the chess mass. 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.960 This is I learned very much trying to introduce technology, 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.520 like introduce AI to doctors. I learned. The biggest thing 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.320 was this was not a technology issue. The doctors had 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:42.240 to make the time to change how they worked. They're 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.840 very busy day in and day out. They didn't necessarily 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:46.720 trust what data trained it. I mean, there was a 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.280 you're we're seeing this play out one more time. I 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:51.840 keep looking at my list because I have a million 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.800 more questions and we run out of time. Thirty forty seconds, 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.080 you do, I have to ask you because you're you 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.480 see so much. You're on corporate awards JP Morgan, Cargill 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:09.040 and others, Northwestern, I'm failing. You're no thirty seconds. How 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.760 would you describe kind of this environment right now? You know, 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.520 in many ways it's a perma crisis. I've heard used 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.280 as a word. Right there's so many at one time, 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:20.480 and so it's I think we'll be living with that 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.520 uncertainty for a very long time. And on an up note, 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.280 I think these are the moments when you can back 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.040 to how I started this. Companies and people can define 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.480 who they are in people's minds, and so I think 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.320 right now I put a premium on trust if I 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.640 was a company, on everything I did for my customers, 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.160 my partners, etc. Because this is going to be with 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.960 us for a long time, and when's the last time 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:43.920 he ate tripe? That's what I want to know. You know, 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.240 in spaghetti sauce, it tastes pretty good, very tender. I 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.160 have to say it was a couple of decades ago. 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:53.400 You have to read her book to find out why. 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.080 Jenny Rometti, thank you so much. Good Power is the book. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.720 Check it out, everybody. This is Bloomberg Radio.