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Speaker 1: Worrying today's episode could take spoilers for the finale of

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Speaker 1: sever and season two, Cold Cold Harbor. Hello, what it is?

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Speaker 1: Jason GETSPSI and I'm Rosey Night and welcome back to

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Speaker 1: x Ray Vision of the podcast where we dive p Dear,

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Speaker 1: Raver Jones, Movies, Collin's Above, Culture, coverany You from Myra

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Speaker 1: podcast where we're bringing you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: and Thursday, plus news on the weekends.

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Speaker 2: In today's episode, we are talking about Subern's finale, Cold Harbor.

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Speaker 2: Did you find out what Cold Opera is?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's up for debate, but we'll be debating it. We're

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Speaker 2: gonna recap the finale, We're gonna talk about off theories,

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Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about where it leads us in the

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Speaker 2: newly an out season three. And also, remember, guys, programming notes,

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Speaker 2: if you want to be involved in book club, if

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Speaker 2: you haven't done it yet, it feels too much of

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Speaker 2: a big lift. We are doing a single issue for

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Speaker 2: our next book Club. It is Thunderbolts Issue one by

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Speaker 2: Kat Buziak and Mark Bagley, and you are going to

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Speaker 2: be shocked and surprised when you read that comic So remember,

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Speaker 2: get it from Marvel Unlimited, get it from your local library,

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Speaker 2: get it from your local comic shop. That's going to

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Speaker 2: be our next book.

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Speaker 1: Club Severance, Season two, episode ten, the finale, we pick

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Speaker 1: up right after the events of episode nine. We are

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Speaker 1: at the Berthing Cabin. Rosie Cobel is confronting any Mark

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Speaker 1: about Cold Harbor?

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Speaker 2: Did you finish it? Did you finish it? Cold Harbor?

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Speaker 1: And he hasn't finished it, meaning Jemma is still alive.

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Speaker 1: Cobel is relieved. Any Mark then admits that, oh, we

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Speaker 1: know where the elevator is. Because Cobel is kind of explaining, Okay,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be this elevator going down and it's this

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Speaker 1: dark elevator at the end of this twisty set of hallways.

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Speaker 1: He said, oh yeah, yeah, we know about it from

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Speaker 1: Irving's drawings. Meanwhile, in Mdr Helly is at her workstation.

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Speaker 1: When who should walk in but her Audie's father, James

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden asked raspy, weak voice, he.

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Speaker 4: Said, he says, oh, what a funny speech you get.

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Speaker 2: The other event the other night, did I drink a lot?

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Speaker 4: Oh? So cross at you throw a dinner candy so mad,

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Speaker 4: and then he comes and closed and he says, you

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Speaker 4: know what, my daughter, you're audi.

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Speaker 1: I don't really love her.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, dude, seriously, this is like my worst

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Speaker 2: nightmare because I'm like, you know what, Dad's they never

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Speaker 2: been doing a lot for me. And imagine this. Imagine

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Speaker 2: if your dad's talking to like a fake budgeon of

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Speaker 2: you that was just made to be inside a shop.

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Speaker 2: And then he's telling that person, He's like, I don't

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Speaker 2: love that outside door. I you know you're bad because

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Speaker 2: you I can control you can't leave, Like come on, man.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't I don't love her, and he says that.

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Speaker 1: He then says very creepily, as has been suggested over

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Speaker 1: the course of many episodes episode Others in the Shadows,

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Speaker 1: which is like, okay, a bad person, and he says

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Speaker 1: that the reason he doesn't love his daughter Helena anymore

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Speaker 1: is she no longer reflects here. She thought he thought

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Speaker 1: he saw cure in her, but then now as she

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Speaker 1: grew up, he doesn't. And then Helly he comes in closer,

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Speaker 1: and Helly like picks up a and she's like ready

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Speaker 1: to fucking like she's going John wa like fucking Jason

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Speaker 1: Board like like in the jugular with the points, probably

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Speaker 1: just the ball pen. She probably should have done it,

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Speaker 1: and he he goes, that's here. I see it in you.

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Speaker 1: I see here in you. And I think the implication

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Speaker 1: for season three, and something we've discussed in this as

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Speaker 1: we've covered this, is he might be thinking, let's bust

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Speaker 1: out Helene, let's bust out helly R, turn her into

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Speaker 1: the Audi, because I see here in her, and let

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Speaker 1: just that's my daughter. Now we'll put Helena elsewhere and

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Speaker 1: just won't ever turn her on again, and that's gonna

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Speaker 1: be Maybe you're maybe your INNI is now your Audi. WHOA,

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's what he's thinking about.

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Speaker 2: I do think as well, because I like, and I'll

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Speaker 2: just go like your kind of idea that helly R

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Speaker 2: is the real Helena, right, that's like her prime personality.

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Speaker 2: And I think there's something incredibly bleak and incredibly severance

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Speaker 2: about the idea that he can basically just decide which

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Speaker 2: version of her he wants, and we actually have no

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Speaker 2: idea how many times she has been severed, how many

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Speaker 2: versions of her there bra When he talked about birthing

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Speaker 2: others in the shadows, obviously we know he's been doing

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Speaker 2: his weird like buffing cabin shit.

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Speaker 1: But I was also like to different, we can only

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Speaker 1: imagine this sexual assault.

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Speaker 2: Happening like sexual assault happening in the cabin.

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Speaker 1: Back in the cabin, the negotiation between any Mark and

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Speaker 1: the conspirators Kobel, Audie, Mark, and Devin begins. Cobell tells

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Speaker 1: any Mark that you're gonna need to here's the plan.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna go down to MDR. Then you're gonna look

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Speaker 1: for the elevator. You're gonna go down. You're gonna go

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Speaker 1: to the test floor, where you'll become your audi. Audie

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Speaker 1: Mark will take it over from there. He will get

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Speaker 1: Gemma Gemma. He will get Gemma on the elevator, at

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Speaker 1: which point you will take back over right and she

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Speaker 1: will be miss Casey and then you're going to get

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Speaker 1: her to the stairwell and you will both escape. Okay,

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Speaker 1: how does that sound? And any Mark is like that

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Speaker 1: sounds pretty good. What happens to me? And then Devon

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Speaker 1: is like listen, And then I think if they're I

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Speaker 1: don't want to lay all the blame for this at

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Speaker 1: the feet of Devon. I think this is a Cobel

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Speaker 1: plot which I will lay I agree, but like Devin

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Speaker 1: and Audi, Mark will handle this conversation in exactly the

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Speaker 1: wrong way, and Devin says exactly the wrong thing. She says, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, when Jemma is rescued, we can end Lumen,

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Speaker 1: which Adie Mark receives as I'm dead. So you want

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Speaker 1: me to die?

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Speaker 2: Unastoundable.

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Speaker 1: You want me to give my life to save the

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Speaker 1: wife of my Audi, who I don't know is and

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Speaker 1: all my friends are gonna die, like is so? Is

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Speaker 1: that what you're saying? And so this proves to be

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Speaker 1: a pretty a pretty huge point of contention. So then

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Speaker 1: Audie Mark takes over and they play him a recording

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Speaker 1: of Audie Mark, and Audie Mark, for his part, I think,

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Speaker 1: does not realize how insanely condescending he is sounding.

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Speaker 2: Oh he's so. I was like I was watching this shit,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, I would not be doing it,

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Speaker 2: like I would say, buck OUTI Mark like he is

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Speaker 2: the kind I think. Something that's really interesting here is

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Speaker 2: kind of the the supremacy issues that we run into here,

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Speaker 2: of the idea of like who is the prime personality,

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Speaker 2: who is the real person that that we that kind

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Speaker 2: of has the definitive choice over what's going on in severance,

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Speaker 2: whether it's any other aUI, whether it's a collaboration. And look, Jason,

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Speaker 2: you got to tell them what you would do, because

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Speaker 2: you're right.

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Speaker 1: Well let's get there. Let's so basically it goes back

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Speaker 1: and forth, and it goes very poorly for Audie Mark, right,

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Speaker 1: any Mark doesn't want to do it.

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Speaker 2: There's he doesn't have the juice, he can't lie outing.

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Speaker 1: Well, here's the issue. It's like the ego death card, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're not arguing with Audie Mark's problem is he thinks

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Speaker 1: that he's arguing with this like more simplistic, naive, more

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Speaker 1: childlike version of himself, when in fact, he's arguing with

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Speaker 1: himself just as smart, just as driven, just as like

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Speaker 1: dedicated to the things that he cares about as Audi

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Speaker 1: Mark is. And so here's what I listen, here's I

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Speaker 1: think Cobel personally. If I have a theory, it's that

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Speaker 1: Kobel wants to tear down Lumen and make as much

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Speaker 1: chaos as possible. And because of that, she didn't really

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Speaker 1: like she knows a lot obviously about the Severn's process.

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Speaker 1: And I think she and she deals with several people

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Speaker 1: all the time innies and outies. She should have coached

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Speaker 1: both Devin and Mark. Okay, here's what we have to

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Speaker 1: say that because who's lied until the it needs more

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Speaker 1: than fucking Cobell.

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Speaker 2: Literally, because the only way.

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Speaker 1: To get the only way to get any Mark to

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Speaker 1: do this is to lie.

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Speaker 2: You have you have to lie to him. You have

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Speaker 2: to be like, we can both exist.

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Speaker 1: You gotta yeah, and you're not gonna die. Reintegration, this

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Speaker 1: was your idea. Hey, what you might have seen the

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Speaker 1: flashes Audi Mark says like of the reintegration, Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a cool process. We're gonna get to both be together

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Speaker 1: as the same person. I would have said, oh uh,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna split usup. We're gonna be changing.

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Speaker 2: They know how to get people up. They know that

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Speaker 2: it's gonna l us off.

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Speaker 1: And you're gonna be yours and you're gonna do your

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Speaker 1: own thing fully planning to get my wife back and

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Speaker 1: then never turn the son of a bitch on ever again.

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Speaker 2: Also as well, you know what else I think is

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Speaker 2: like and that's not Jason's moral judgment. That's just Jason's

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Speaker 2: correct judgment of how Autemoc would have had to play this.

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Speaker 2: But like I also think I I love the writing

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Speaker 2: in this because suddenly you know this whole time you've

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Speaker 2: kind of been told to like root for out a mock.

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Speaker 2: But then you do realize in this interaction like he

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Speaker 2: is no better than anyone else who thinks an any

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Speaker 2: is less than himself, you know. And I think they

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Speaker 2: do such a good job, such a heartbreaking job. And

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Speaker 2: you see this is the moment where he deeply fucks

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Speaker 2: up when he says, I hear that you're in love

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Speaker 2: with someone too, like.

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Speaker 3: Helene, and I'm like, bro not heleneying of course, when

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Speaker 3: when Helena comes to Mark at the Chinese restaurant and

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Speaker 3: purposely gets his wife's wrong wife's name wrong.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And in that moment you just see like any

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Speaker 2: marks like, oh, this guy doesn't give up because like

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Speaker 2: he's like he doesn't care about me, He's not interested

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Speaker 2: in anything to do with my life. I also do

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Speaker 2: think he makes a good point, which is essentially like, well,

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Speaker 2: why haven't you done this before? Like why don't didn't

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Speaker 2: you care about my interior life before? And now it's

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Speaker 2: just about saving your wife. And they literally are in

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Speaker 2: a situation where Alimark is showing you can communicate with

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Speaker 2: your any like you can do it, Like he could

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Speaker 2: have shown this interest before he could, but he didn't

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Speaker 2: because now it's about saving Gemma and that's what he

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Speaker 2: cares about. And honestly, I am a saved Gema. I'm

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Speaker 2: on the save Gema standpoint. I do. I found this

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Speaker 2: episode very hard to watch, but yeah, it in this mode.

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Speaker 1: Autie Mark sucks so much as I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: a show about I think systems and not this is

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Speaker 1: it's about the effect of systems on people. And this

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Speaker 1: is a system that sets people up to be antagonists.

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Speaker 1: And no matter how much you want to cooperate, and

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Speaker 1: no matter how much you believe you have shared interests

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Speaker 1: that would create a space through which you could cooperate,

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Speaker 1: you can't because you're on this side and you're on

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Speaker 1: the other.

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Speaker 2: That's a fantastic point.

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Speaker 1: Personally, And you know, I think that there is obviously

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Speaker 1: innies are oppressed, and there's just a lot of philosophical

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Speaker 1: ways to think about this. Like I think any person

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Speaker 1: who was dealing who was dealing with what Audi Mark

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Speaker 1: was dealing with, would think, I'm gonna lie to this

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Speaker 1: fucking inny and then I'm gonna kill him as soon

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Speaker 1: as I get my wife back, which I desperately need

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Speaker 1: to do. And I don't believe that it's possible as

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Speaker 1: an AUDI to think of a piece of yourself as

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Speaker 1: a person. I think that there is probably some kind

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Speaker 1: ofsophical barrier that would not let you do that. While

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Speaker 1: if you step back, I think it's clear that the

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Speaker 1: Inneyes are people. There are a lot of There's just

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Speaker 1: so many. I mean I said this previously. I think

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Speaker 1: that there is like a space to think about innis

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Speaker 1: and audis in the language of choice, meaning by which

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Speaker 1: I mean to say, if I choose with my body

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Speaker 1: to create another consciousness that's a version of me inside

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Speaker 1: my body, then I can also kill that consciousness because

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Speaker 1: it's me and I created it in my body, and

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Speaker 1: I created it, and I created it. No, you know,

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Speaker 1: no face, no case, as they say, there's no body,

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Speaker 1: there's no client, it's me.

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Speaker 2: And there's no weapon because you're just handing it off. No.

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Speaker 1: I don't agree with that fully, but I think that

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Speaker 1: that's an argument that wants me.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a very interesting philosophical argument. And I

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Speaker 2: have to say as well, like watching this show has

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Speaker 2: made me consider like when I used to work in

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Speaker 2: I used to work in a bar that was part

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Speaker 2: of a cinema, and I would work there and then

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Speaker 2: we would go to other places afterwards and we would

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Speaker 2: work behind bars and do like contract bartending. And when

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Speaker 2: I think about it, I'm like, wow, that Rosie was

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Speaker 2: really going through it just so Rosie at home could

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Speaker 2: just like lay in her bed and pay her rent.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, wait a minute, this is actually far

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Speaker 2: more of a direct line to the kind of way

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Speaker 2: we experience work in an analogous sense than it is

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Speaker 2: like some crazy fictional idea. Like I actually think that

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Speaker 2: when you start breaking up the way that your life works,

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Speaker 2: especially if you have to work in like a service job,

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Speaker 2: you almost do live outside of your experiences at work.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of times, I have to be honest,

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Speaker 2: being out e Rosie laying in the bed, it wasn't

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Speaker 2: great because I was tired and I was hungover, and

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Speaker 2: I wasn't getting the experiences of you know that Mark

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Speaker 2: gets with this disconnection. So I just think this show,

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Speaker 2: I think that is the true success so this show,

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Speaker 2: because I think we do need to talk about like

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Speaker 2: the success of the finale and whether it works for people,

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Speaker 2: whether it doesn't. But I think the true success of

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Speaker 2: the show is it really does capture these conversations about

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Speaker 2: work and workers and systems and corporations and how we

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Speaker 2: kind of split our lives up to exist within them.

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Speaker 2: But then obviously in this case, it adds like a

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Speaker 2: physical element to it and an emotional element that I

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Speaker 2: think we really get into as our Ema kind of

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Speaker 2: showcases his his kind of lack of respect or his

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Speaker 2: lack of a plan.

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Speaker 1: But again, I lay this again at Cobel's feet, who

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Speaker 1: gave them absolutely no guidance on how to talk to

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Speaker 1: any's twenty minute autie. Mark is in a severely emotional state,

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Speaker 1: as you would expect obvious, and I don't think he's

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Speaker 1: in any state to carry on a negotiation with Why

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Speaker 1: did he have a script or something?

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Speaker 2: And I feel like she could have written him a script.

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Speaker 1: So the negotiation goes terribly, goes off the rails. Cobell

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Speaker 1: is like, tap me in, I'll deal with it, which

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Speaker 1: should have been the first thing. Cobel goes in and

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Speaker 1: is like, here's what's going on. The MDR numbers are

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Speaker 1: windows into Jemma's mind. You've been severing her lots of times,

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Speaker 1: like each each time you finish a location that is

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Speaker 1: a version of herself that you've created that's severed, and

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Speaker 1: he's like, oh my god, I severed her twenty four times.

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Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, that's fucking crazy. And then Cobel says

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Speaker 1: gives him some like hard medicine and says, listen, forget

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Speaker 1: the helly shit.

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Speaker 2: She's an ain't gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: It's never going to happen, which she's probably right, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this is the correct tactic to

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Speaker 1: take either. Definitely not, because any Mark fully rejects us

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Speaker 1: and says, listen, I'm not talking anymore. The next thing

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Speaker 1: I want to see is the Severn floor, and we

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Speaker 1: cut immediately to the Severn floor and he's there. Anie

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Speaker 1: Mark is staring at a brand new mural in the

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Speaker 1: classic cure style, which I would describe as like nineteenth century,

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Speaker 1: like Antebellum. It looks like something either that it like

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Speaker 1: a style that you would do a mural of, like

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Speaker 1: John Brown in or something in the Denver Airport. And

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Speaker 1: it shows Mark compleating cold at his desk, completing Cold

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Speaker 1: Harbor in front of like the waterfall by the orp Bow,

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Speaker 1: and all the employees are there, and the board is

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Speaker 1: standing at the top of the waterfall looking on and

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Speaker 1: Helly comes out. They embrace. They go to MDR where

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Speaker 1: they find like a animatronic jame Egan, like from the

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Speaker 1: Hall of Presidents. Yes, and he's holding your card and

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Speaker 1: they open the car and it's a card from Miltchik

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Speaker 1: that announces, Hey, congratulations, party in your honor. As soon

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Speaker 1: as you're done with Cold Harbor, Mark gets to work.

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Speaker 1: He and Helly start talking about everything that's going on.

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Speaker 1: Helly is like, oh my god, it was so weird,

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Speaker 1: Like jame Egan was down here talking about what a

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Speaker 1: special day it was and something's happening, and Mark's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know what it is because of this out of

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Speaker 1: the cabin. Meanwhile, Miltchik goes to see Dylan because Audi

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Speaker 1: Dylan is like, I'll let you quit, but like we

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Speaker 1: need to have a talk first. So basically filled out

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Speaker 1: a whole questionnaire that inny Dylan is going to have

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Speaker 1: to deal with and read. So Miltchik presents him with

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Speaker 1: it and basically it says like, Hey, I'm mad at

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Speaker 1: you for fucking my wife, but also like I'm glad

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Speaker 1: that this more confident and loving an empathic part of

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Speaker 1: me exists, and so if you want to quit and

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Speaker 1: your existence, that's fine with me. But like I'm also

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Speaker 1: like down to keep going.

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Speaker 2: With very emotionally mature response from aUI Dylan in a

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Speaker 2: way that out Emarch and Inimac are struggling to be

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Speaker 2: this episode, I loved this reveal for Dylan. I thought

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Speaker 2: it was actually very kind and very in character, and

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Speaker 2: I love the line where he's basically like, I hope

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Speaker 2: that one day she sees me like how she saw you.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was great, and then that obviously inspires

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Speaker 2: Dylan to kind of go on the journey he goes

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Speaker 2: on for the rest of this episode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we go down to the test floor where Jemma

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Speaker 1: is presented with her outfit for the day, and it's

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Speaker 1: the outfit she was wearing when she last left the

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Speaker 1: house and last saw Mark, and she was linking to

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Speaker 1: this fake party that she was going to. You can

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Speaker 1: tell that she recognizes it. Helly basically tells Mark at

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Speaker 1: MDR that, oh, yeah, you should reintegrate. You should do

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Speaker 1: that and then and then you should like be with

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Speaker 1: your wife. And then he's like, what I want to

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Speaker 1: be with you and Helly's like, you know, I am

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Speaker 1: suggesting basically that the Helena version is not the true version.

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Speaker 2: She's like, I am me Dad, Like I am I

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Speaker 2: am her.

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Speaker 1: And then they have this really cute talk about where

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Speaker 1: they go if they could be together. They settled on

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Speaker 1: the equator, which it's unclear if they.

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Speaker 2: Know, I don't know what it is that like, is

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Speaker 2: it a building, is it a continent? Is it a

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Speaker 2: building so big you'd confuse it with a continent, Like

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Speaker 2: it's very clear that they have no idea what's going

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Speaker 2: on outside of living.

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Speaker 1: Then there's this interesting moment where Helly and Mark both

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Speaker 1: complete the file, like she shares it with him, like

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Speaker 1: she puts his hand over his as he's moving the

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Speaker 1: numbers around. Does this mean that she can also feel

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Speaker 1: the emotions from the numbers or unclear, but Mark finishes

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Speaker 1: with Helly's hand on his wonderful the Chicago Bulls theme

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Speaker 1: plays and the animatronic Jam comes alive and introduces the

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Speaker 1: floor manager, mister Milchick, and then they have like this

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Speaker 1: kind of roast, this very corporate roast battle that you

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Speaker 1: can tell is awkward emotionally because both Milchick and Jame

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Speaker 1: animatronic Jame are taking it a a little too seriously,

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Speaker 1: like they're really throwing haymakers at each other, and it

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Speaker 1: and it culminates in Milchik basically calling here like a

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Speaker 1: short bit. He's like, you about that, your animate your

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Speaker 1: animatronic version is six inches taller than you, and so

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Speaker 1: what about that, shorty. And then there's just like a

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Speaker 1: very tepid applause, and.

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Speaker 2: Then nobody's doing nobody's doing candlef that anymore. And also

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Speaker 2: then Jaime calls him, He's like, okay, seth.

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Speaker 1: At which point Milchick announces that it's time for some

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Speaker 1: of the employees down here on the severed wing that

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Speaker 1: we have never seen in the choreography and Merriment department

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Speaker 1: to come in and celebrate Mark's achievement. And it's a marching,

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Speaker 1: full marching band, which Miltchick then leads in marching band celebrations.

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Speaker 1: As you know, Helena and Mark look on very very confused. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: down on the test floor, Gemma is taken a cold harbor,

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Speaker 1: which is her having to disassemble the crib a crib

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Speaker 1: and I guess feel like no grief or emotion at all.

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Speaker 1: She's a complete new produce. She doesn't know who she

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Speaker 1: is in there, She just knows she has to disassemble this.

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Speaker 2: I want to say this is we were right for Jason,

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Speaker 2: because you did basically call it early on that the

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Speaker 2: that the concept of what Severance was doing was essentially

385
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Speaker 2: like eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, Like they want

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Speaker 2: to live a pain They want to create a world

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Speaker 2: where life is painless, where you don't have to remember anything,

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Speaker 2: and a big part like.

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Speaker 1: So Jamee and the Cures can just have their pick

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Speaker 1: of sexual assault victim.

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Speaker 2: Basically, I'm assuming that the idea is like other rich

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Speaker 2: people could sever their employees do whatever they want to them.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, this is a question we'll talk about later,

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Speaker 2: but I'm also interested, like do you have to have

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Speaker 2: an emotional connection to the person us evering on that floor,

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Speaker 2: Like that's why I want to know It's.

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Speaker 1: Like, that's why the that's why the Helena handover Mark's

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Speaker 1: hand thing is interesting to me. But I think that

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Speaker 1: is the suggestion, right and which leads We'll have more

400
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Speaker 1: conversation about this later, but I personally think that I

401
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 1: don't I'm not sure that Dylan and Helly were doing anything.

402
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Speaker 1: I think they were just there.

403
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Speaker 2: Do you think they were just that as pop of

404
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 2: Marks like.

405
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Speaker 1: I think they were doing placebo stuff. Yeah, to keep

406
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: Mark drilled down on this very important project, that's trust.

407
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Speaker 1: So while Gemma is disassembling the crib, Jame is like

408
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Speaker 1: in a little wink.

409
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Speaker 2: Cloth so much. She's my I hate him so.

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00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: Much watching her like on video link and very excited,

411
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Speaker 1: and he's loving it.

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Speaker 2: He thinks he's done it. It's happening.

413
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Speaker 1: So while this is happening, we all so learn because uh,

414
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 1: because a Drummond goes to meet with Lorne, they take

415
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Speaker 1: a delivery of a goat, we learn that basically it

416
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: seems like, rather than being repositories of a consciousness or

417
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Speaker 1: you know, a kind of like brain USB drive, the goats,

418
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Speaker 1: it seems, are really just a part of a religious ritual.

419
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Speaker 1: And this particular goat that Lauren is bringing a meal

420
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Speaker 1: is about to get sacrificed by Drummond and then apparently

421
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Speaker 1: buried and probably cremated alongside Gemma's remains.

422
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I so they suggest that seems like what's gonna happen.

423
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Speaker 2: I also wonder if it's like a throwback to when

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Speaker 2: they were originally doing animal testing, and they kill the

425
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Speaker 2: animals at the end, So now they kill the humans

426
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Speaker 2: at the end, which is what they meant about cold tap.

427
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Speaker 2: Although I do I feel like, I don't know if

428
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Speaker 2: Jane would really let them kill Gemma the way he

429
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Speaker 2: feels about how I feel like he'd probably just want

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Speaker 2: to keep us seven down there forever. I don't know

431
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 2: if he's planning to give her all.

432
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 1: Oh, I think maur certainly wants that, but I think, yeah,

433
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: it's it certainly seems like they were ready ing. I mean, yeah,

434
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: Drummond was saying here like this goat will will be

435
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: you know, buried with a what do you say? Valued woman? Yeah, yeah,

436
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: which was very like weird terminology. Lauren is very upset

437
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: over how many goats she's having to give up, like

438
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: all the time, so leading us to believe that this

439
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: is a regular occurrence that's happening. Mark manages to slip

440
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: away from the choreography and merriment party. Helly and Dylan

441
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: keep Milchick locked in the bathroom with like a vending machine.

442
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: I love that Dylan in both finales, his very very

443
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: important role is basically like a body block.

444
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 2: Milk Chick with yeah, I know, and then he gets that.

445
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: But it's like big, like fuck you moment, which I

446
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 2: think is a really big moment for Dylan, which I love.

447
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: So Mark gets down to the test floor, he becomes

448
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: Audi Mark. He and Drummond fight outside the Goat ritual room.

449
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: Drummond is like gonna kill Martin. He's strangling in death

450
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: when Louren comes out and puts the little air pistol

451
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: to his head and his stun gun stun gun thing

452
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: and basically takes him prisoner for Mark. Mark takes Drummond

453
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: down in the testing elevator and he's like, listen, I'm

454
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: about to become my Audi. So like when that happens,

455
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: and as he's saying that, like the severance chip engages,

456
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 1: he becomes Audie Mark and in the in the you know,

457
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: in that moment of being between consciousnesses, he squeezes the

458
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: trigger and shoots a Drummond in the neck and is

459
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: now covered in Drummond's blood and is very confused about

460
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: what you do.

461
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: That's such a good scene because I kind of like

462
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 2: it's so brutal and grotesque, and I've seen the the

463
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: fandoms especially there's a great twilight account I follow. She's hilarious.

464
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 2: She just wrote a book called Why We Love and

465
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: Hate Twilight, and she was sharing some really good stuff

466
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 2: about like how American Psycho coded this version of Marcus.

467
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 2: When he's covered in all the blood, he's wearing the shirt,

468
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: he's kind of running around these clean holes. Yeah, it's

469
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 2: a really great moment. I'm also fuck Drummond, so I'm

470
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 2: happy that happened. Great, great news for me personally.

471
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: Upstairs, Helly makes a big speech to the Marching band,

472
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 1: saying essentially like, help us defeat Milchick because we know

473
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: about the app Yeah we lost. You must have Yeah

474
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: you must have lost people too, Like they just disappear

475
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: and they don't tell you what happens, and like the

476
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: audis want everything and we don't know anything. And the

477
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: only way to like stop that from happening is we

478
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: got to defeat this guy. Mark uses Drummond's blood to

479
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: get into Cold Harbor, which is a very I didn't.

480
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: I know, I'm dumb, but I didn't. I didn't realize

481
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: that that would be the solution to the problem. And

482
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that was smart.

483
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: I know. I was also like, if he doesn't need that,

484
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 2: and then it's just any blood. Were talking about bad

485
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: Blas again, guys, which by the way, is not rolled

486
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 2: out this episode. I just need to say, though my

487
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: personal theory is much smaller. I'll talk about it afta.

488
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: He goes, he goes to Gema. Jemma of course does.

489
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 2: Know who he is, but the rich doctor Maua loves.

490
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: He's like so fucking happy watching it. He's like, yeah,

491
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: she doesn't remember kill him, Like he's not bothered.

492
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: There's something, whether it's I don't know what it is,

493
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: but she She eventually goes with him, despite maurs please

494
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: over the and when she gets outside of the room,

495
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: she turns back into Gemma and we get the long

496
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: awaited reunion.

497
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: It's wonderful, man, the emotional face acting that these two

498
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: do when they realize, like, oh it's so good and

499
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: I was so happy and then I was so sad.

500
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: So then Milchick escapes the bathroom, and this is the

501
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: moment that Dylan and the Marching Band get to basically

502
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: tell him to fuck off and they have a conflict,

503
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: which I would imagine appears off screen. Then yeah, will

504
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: open up on when we whenever season three.

505
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 4: Because.

506
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: I know mister milchick. He is obviously a conflicted character,

507
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: but one of the best characters we've had on TV

508
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: for a while, brilliant pformances. That man is a good dancer.

509
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: I would love to see him wonderful fucking some people

510
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 2: shut up in an action sequence. I believe he could

511
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 2: do it, but I also will protect any Dylan with

512
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: my life, so I don't want him to be hut

513
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 2: in that process.

514
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: Mark and Jemma run for the Ellen. They have to move,

515
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: you know, they have to kick the body of Drumm

516
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: and that out of the way as maur is chasing him.

517
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: They get on. They go up. Gemma turns into miss Casey,

518
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: Mark turns into any Mark, and Miss Casey's like, what's

519
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: going on? Any Mark's like, we have to get to

520
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: the surface. He takes her the stairs. She goes through,

521
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: becomes Gemma again, is looking at her husband, who she

522
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: does not know's severed but I guess might suspect, but

523
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: still like, is like, what's.

524
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 2: In this moment? Was just saved by him? So it's

525
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 2: probably not. She's probably not like suddenly thinking like, well

526
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: maybe he's saved severa do you know, Like she's this

527
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 2: is a horrific ending. It fucking broke my heart, and

528
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: I think it's so so well done.

529
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: I think it's very earned, but very heartbreaking. Any Mark

530
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: hesitates at the door because he suspects, and I think

531
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: in fact knows that if he walks out that door,

532
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: he's probably never He's dead, that's the end of him.

533
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: And he turns and he sees Helly, who has been

534
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: confers firmed through interviews with witht Lower that it's that

535
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: this is Helly are not Helen.

536
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: At least at least as much as we know, because

537
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: you know what.

538
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: There are theories, but I'm but I'm working.

539
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: Under the I think he's saying the truth. She believes

540
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 2: it's hell Yah.

541
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: I think it's more emotionally satisfying and it makes more

542
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: sense for me.

543
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: Absolutely would suck if they pulled that rock.

544
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: Out that it's Helly are so because it needs to

545
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: be a choice. So Mark looks back, he sees her,

546
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: and they lock eyes, and he decides, like, Okay, so

547
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: here's here's the choice that any Markets left with death

548
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: and the death of his friends, or run around with

549
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: the woman I love in this maze for a few

550
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: more hours minutes, And so they they lock Hands as

551
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: mel Tourmas the Windmills of My Mind, the theme song

552
00:31:53,760 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: to the original Uh Thomas Crown Affair A Wonder for

553
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: a Heist movie plays and they go running and that's it.

554
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: That's the end of So we got a free.

555
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: We got it. In the background, you see like Gemma

556
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: just screaming, Mark, Mark, we got to go back to

557
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: our life. And it's this kind of horror movie through

558
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: the glass pane in the door and the red lights

559
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 2: are baby like. It's so so heartbreaking. And then there's

560
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: a great interview I think it was with Indie Wire

561
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 2: where they're asking about the freeze frame and Ben Stilla says, yeah,

562
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 2: it's kind of this like combo.

563
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: It feels very French.

564
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah yeah. And also as well, he was like,

565
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 2: it's kind of a combo of like that moment from

566
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: the Graduate where you like then get that moment and

567
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: you're kind of like, oh wait, but now I've done this,

568
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: like that of my life look like. And then Invasion

569
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 2: of the Body snatches, which is obviously like a huge seventies, huge,

570
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: huge influence on this show. And and I think that

571
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: that freeze frame is like so right, yeah, I mean yeah,

572
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 2: I'm interested to hear Jason like, I guess we should

573
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: probably go to a break.

574
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's sever for a moment, and then when we

575
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: come back, we will tap in super producer Joel.

576
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 4: We'll talk about.

577
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: Everything from season two. Yeah, and we're back, and we'd

578
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: like to welcome super producer Joel to the conversation to discuss.

579
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: Any Joel or out Joel.

580
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 5: I want to say today's addy Joel as I'm in

581
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,959
Speaker 5: an entirely new city, uh only kind of working.

582
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 2: So, how Joe, I did the finale work for you?

583
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 2: Joe out?

584
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 1: How'd you feel about it?

585
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 5: Okay? I have very mixed feelings about the finale, so

586
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 5: pacing wise, I think is my biggest issue. I feel

587
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 5: like we kept coming back to military trying to break

588
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 5: out of this room withouting my understanding of why he's

589
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 5: so desperate to get out or even what it's like

590
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 5: for him to face all of those people, And I

591
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 5: thought this would be a free time without doing much work.

592
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 5: I think they could have given him a lot more

593
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 5: like he's the bolt out of the room choice I

594
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 5: really feel with him as an actor, being like I

595
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 5: have to give myself something to do.

596
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: He had some wonderful like moments like that, like his

597
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: entrance when Jame animatronic Jame introduces him and he comes

598
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: into music, hard cuts, the running out of the room

599
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: with Dylan, the dance obviously, and this kind of idea

600
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: of both expressing his blackness in this corporate space and

601
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: also the fact that this corporate structure is like, here's

602
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: this little space where you can be black. Yes, there's all.

603
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 2: These other black people to do it.

604
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: I too was like, I mean, it's it's it's an

605
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: episode that's seventy five minutes that kind of like not

606
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: a lot happens because there's so much action in running around.

607
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 1: But and I agree with you, it felt like, oh, look,

608
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: Miltchik's still there, still donkey kicking the the defending machine.

609
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 2: Looking through I would also say as well, like I

610
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: think that where we leave this season, I would I think,

611
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 2: you know what Mark Helly, I know what happened. They

612
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: made a choice, So so like I would watch season

613
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: three about Miltchik, like I want to know how he

614
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: got down that. I think, I think there is space

615
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: to expand the interior world of Severance because I agree,

616
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: I thought for me, the emotional hit of the ending

617
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: and how heartbreaking that was and how much it impacted

618
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 2: me tells me that this is a really great, well

619
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 2: done episode. Oh yeah, and I did get something from it.

620
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: But I also do have certain like feelings about whether

621
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 2: they the mystery of Cold Harbor. Did it take over

622
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 2: like the show so much that it took away kind

623
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 2: of the impact of what Cold Harbor is, or is

624
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: it like telling us more about Lumen, which is kind

625
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 2: of my theory which I came away from this episode with,

626
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: especially the stuff with Milchik and the Jam animatronic and

627
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 2: then also the way that people were like respond the

628
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: Kere animatronic and then the way people like Jam were

629
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 2: like responding when Cold Harbor didn't work. I was like, wait,

630
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 2: this is not a historical moment, Like no one outside

631
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 2: of this company cares. That is cult language about what

632
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 2: they want this to be. And I think my biggest

633
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 2: takeaway from this is like, actually, we don't really know

634
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 2: much about how Severance is perceived outside. All we know

635
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: is from other people who are connected to it, so

636
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: all of that could be lies. And I think I'm

637
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: now more of the belief that this is like a

638
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: really small, interior rich people cult shit that they are

639
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 2: doing that maybe doesn't actually have that much impact outside

640
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: and is more this strange social ecosystem that they have

641
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 2: created to exploit workers to you know, potentially maybe breakthrough

642
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: with a new kind of painkiller idea and emotional painkiller.

643
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 2: But I think my biggest takeaway was like I started

644
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 2: to feel like, oh, I'm seeing the cracks in Lumen

645
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: and this idea of them being some all powerful corporation

646
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: and actually this is like a weird cult that a

647
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: rich family runs out of like a fucking strip mare

648
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 2: looking office. Like that's kind of and I was like,

649
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 2: I was like, it's so bleak, but I think it

650
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 2: makes more sense because like why would mark severing twenty

651
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 2: five people be a historical moment for anyone outside of it?

652
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,479
Speaker 5: But okay, so, like I think historical has always meant

653
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 5: for Lumen, and Lumen is good at creating lore for

654
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 5: their company. It's like a key element of Lumen. And

655
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 5: I think that's like that why is this oil painting?

656
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 5: How long has this oil painting been done? When do

657
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 5: they commission this? You know what I mean? Like this

658
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 5: is a lore they've been setting up. I think that's

659
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 5: why they do.

660
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 2: They have painters on the Sabad floor, Like, are there

661
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 2: any painting's face worked?

662
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 1: Yeah?

663
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was.

664
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 5: They were all like taking care of the paintings and stuff,

665
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 5: and so I think there's yeah, And so I just

666
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 5: think they're very good at crafting lore and that's what

667
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 5: they were trying to do with Mark. I do still

668
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 5: think they're a major corporation. I also do think they're cultish.

669
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 5: I think to Jason's earlier point, this is the show

670
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 5: about systems, which is why I think for me, a

671
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 5: lot of this was pinging on like, oh, this is

672
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 5: a commentary on slavery. I do think it's a little

673
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,439
Speaker 5: bit larger than just slavery, like you know what I mean.

674
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 5: But it is about systems and how you conform and

675
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 5: then how you survive within them. And with that in mind,

676
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 5: I thought breaking open the system and the opening with

677
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 5: the two Marks talking to each other on camera, that

678
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 5: really really worked for me. And I think if you've

679
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 5: been feeling lost about the personhood of Innis, you know,

680
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 5: and if you've been feeling lost about like, well, how

681
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 5: could this possibly end? Like this gives you some really

682
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 5: sharp context to both how Audi Mark is conceding. He's like, oh,

683
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 5: we'll just like be together, like we'll just share our body,

684
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 5: which I think is a lot of people's like fast track.

685
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 5: It's like, oh, well, if we're all equal, we just share,

686
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 5: it'll be fine, Like don't worry any markets, Like yeah,

687
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 5: there's a lot of stipulations that we can't be equal.

688
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 5: We can never be equal. I don't have as long

689
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 5: a life as you. I can't share your body and

690
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 5: an outside I don't really know you're gonna have all

691
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 5: of the advantages against me, And so for that, I

692
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 5: think that's a really great way to like sort of

693
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 5: leave us hanging and plug us back in. I didn't

694
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 5: get all Irving, which is gonna make me incredible. I

695
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 5: just can't how am I supposed to breathe or relax.

696
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: He might be off the show. I mean I might

697
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: be gone.

698
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: It was giving me that it was in retrospect. It

699
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 2: was giving me he's coming back for the.

700
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: Sun said, leads me to believe that it's very possible

701
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: he is not.

702
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 5: I don't want to Irving. This is so devastating to me.

703
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 5: I really hope that's not the case. I love John

704
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 5: to touro, but also whatever he does an extra show

705
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 5: will be great. But I think overall, to me, I

706
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 5: think one of the big things I really wanted out

707
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 5: of the show was that I wanted some answers. And

708
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 5: then it's the end of season two, we know they're

709
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 5: trying to go with another one. We needed the Lord

710
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 5: to expand I got. Personally, I feel like I got that.

711
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 5: I I feel like I understand Cold Harbor without having

712
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 5: full knowledge of it, and to say that is like

713
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 5: we we caught the Cold Harbor on the box, so

714
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,439
Speaker 5: we know this has been the plan for a very

715
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 5: long time. And the shock I felt when they opened

716
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 5: the room and it was just the crib, and then

717
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 5: when they asked her to dismantle it, I literally started crying.

718
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 5: I was like, this is so sad to remove from someone.

719
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 5: As much as this memory is painful, it's also treasured

720
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 5: and you start to be like and also for her

721
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 5: to do the answer, I don't know who I am

722
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 5: right and be treated so secondary and other. I was like,

723
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 5: this is the horror that I think Mark is thinking

724
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 5: every and he is experiencing. You're completely foreign to yourself,

725
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 5: You're completely alienated, you are facing trauma you can't begin

726
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 5: to understand. But that is clearly still so in the body,

727
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 5: even if she's able to do the task. She's like,

728
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 5: she feels like depressed, Like it's like half energy, it's low.

729
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 5: It's not the Gemo we have fallen in love with.

730
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 5: Over the course of like two hours, and then this ending, guys,

731
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 5: oh my god, oh oh.

732
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 2: I was dying like that ship brooke me.

733
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: I thought it was perfectly, perfectly devastating and very early

734
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: like I.

735
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 2: Never got Honestly, I never got on a season three.

736
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: It would have been fine.

737
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: I thought it would have been. I thought it's a

738
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: great place to end it if there was no season three.

739
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: And I also thought, obviously I want Audi, Mark and

740
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: and Gemma to be together. But I also felt like

741
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: it would not make sense for any Mark to go

742
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: out that door and agree agree like, because essentially they

743
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: were asking him go die and all your friends die.

744
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 2: And his interactions did not without a Mark would not

745
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: have convinced me to go out there either. So I

746
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 2: think they did a great job where it's like any

747
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 2: Mark does not have to sacrifice himself or be some

748
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 2: hero for some version of himself and some person he

749
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 2: doesn't know. And I also thought it was interesting that,

750
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: like in an interview with Rolling Stone, that Jemma's incredible

751
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 2: actress Deacon Lockman. She kind of says that she actually

752
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: feels like the whole point of Cold Harbor is this

753
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 2: idea of like taking that painful memory and like testing

754
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 2: if the severance barrier holds. But then she also kind

755
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: of connects it to like she feels like they were

756
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: Cobell was sort of doing that to Mark in the

757
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: wellness center, and how like the candle from the basement

758
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 2: that Miss Casey likes, she's constantly like testing to see

759
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 2: the box barrier is holding, and underneath their kind of

760
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: testing to see if Jemma's barrier is holding when they

761
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 2: expose her to things from her outy self. So she

762
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: feels like Cold Harbor is definitively like attempting to remove

763
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 2: human's pain and grief kind of entirely. And I thought

764
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 2: that was such a great insight and that kind of

765
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,919
Speaker 2: duality of like what Marquess has actually been through, even

766
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 2: if we didn't realize we weren't seeing it that way,

767
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: in the same way we see it on the testing floor.

768
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: I thought that was like a really great callback.

769
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: What so, Joe, what did you think of the ending?

770
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 2: Well?

771
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 1: How did it your thoughts?

772
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 5: I think one thing we know about Mark from the

773
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 5: very beginning is like he views his teammates as family.

774
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 5: And so if we know that about Anie Mark, there

775
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 5: was never any other way for it to end.

776
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 2: There was no Yeah, even if it wasn't a romance,

777
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,879
Speaker 2: You're right, he would have always gone back.

778
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think it's like, so it's but it's

779
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 5: also hard because we also know, like what it's done

780
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 5: really well, if they set up everybody's ultimate stakes so perfectly,

781
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 5: Like we know that Mark's only thing is he's just

782
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 5: wanted to not feel the pain of Gemma, and so

783
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 5: to get close to her and to know that all

784
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 5: you have to do is stif through that fucking doors,

785
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 5: we could have his wife back and they just found

786
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 5: each other. And we know Jemma's biggest fear is that

787
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 5: Mark has moved on. It's just the one the faith

788
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 5: that she's been able to hold onto downstairs.

789
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: I don't believe, and she doesn't know, he said.

790
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 2: Exactly. In hindsight, I think she will know. I think

791
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 2: she will like sit when she is, she'll call Devon.

792
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: But also I think as well, like once you're out

793
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 2: of the chaotic horror of that literal like horror movie situation.

794
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 2: I think it would come to you quite quickly like, oh,

795
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 2: he's probably severed. But in that moment, all she sees

796
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 2: is him leaving with fucking Helena eating just moments after

797
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 2: they have, you know, had that connection and that kiss

798
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 2: and that like we're going to get out of here.

799
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 2: And also it's so horrific, because isn't that everyone's dream

800
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 2: who is trapped in a horrific situation, is that somebody

801
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 2: who loves you would come and save you, even if

802
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 2: she hasn't been able to think that because she is

803
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 2: constantly severed. She got to experience that for like one second,

804
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 2: and then they turn it on its head and do

805
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 2: something that makes absolute emotional sense for any Mark. But

806
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: that is I thought it was just such a shocking

807
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: and emotionally like true and horrifying ending.

808
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: Joelle, I must ask you what is so personally? I

809
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: feel like the you know, the negotiating between the negotiation

810
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: between Audie Mark and any Mark and his allies went terribly.

811
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: I Devin bungled it almost from the first and Mark

812
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 1: continued bungling it all the way down them Devin saying like,

813
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: oh yeah, this will and lumin the wrong thing to

814
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: say I but I also feel like there's a world

815
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: in which Cobell, who works with severed people, who created

816
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 1: the process and has worked with countless severed people, should

817
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 1: have like talked them through his conversation before, Like he

818
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 1: she should have been like, you gotta lie to these motherfuckers.

819
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, I put the morality aside.

820
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 5: Lie to your inny.

821
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:00,439
Speaker 1: Tell him that reintegration will create another person and he'll

822
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: be his own person. He's gonna get to be with

823
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: Helly forever like that, and that's how it's gonna work.

824
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: Do not tell him the fucking truth, and that's.

825
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,240
Speaker 2: How much we're gonna end your life.

826
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: Basically, try to do not try to do not try

827
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: to connect with him on an emotional level. Do not

828
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: try to connect with his life. He's gonna see that

829
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: as inauthentic. You need to fucking lie to him right

830
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: now because now is not in this five minute conversation

831
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: is not the time to like, uh create this bond

832
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: that should have existed between you two. That's how I feel.

833
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 1: That said, how would you have approached a negotiation between

834
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: your Audie cell in it with a with a goal

835
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: of saving someone dear to use life?

836
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 5: Okay, so to thinks first, I would say, you'll have

837
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 5: a lot more faith in harmony than I. That woman

838
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 5: does not know how to talk to people. That's not

839
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 5: a skill she was gifted with. She could have changed

840
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 5: anyone to talk to she doesn't know. Probably is really

841
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 5: she only has their shared experience and too harmony. Asking

842
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 5: them to leave is sus as hell? Why if you're

843
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 5: anti Luhmann, I can't understand why these two people who

844
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 5: are helping you can't stay, Like why Devin can't stick

845
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 5: around and hear this.

846
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 2: Truth that seems suspicious.

847
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 1: I think my sense is just the feeling like that

848
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 1: he's being ganged up on, which I kind of get

849
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: because he's feeling like I never have the full picture.

850
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 1: And yeah, and there's shadowy people that I can't perceive

851
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: that are always like manipulating me, and I don't know

852
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 1: what they're intentions.

853
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 5: Audi March I think it was the belly of the

854
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 5: beast without all of the information, and he could have

855
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 5: easily had that information and if she had decided to

856
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 5: tell them another time. So I'm really sess of harmony

857
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 5: right now. I still am not quite sure what her is.

858
00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 5: But for me, oh man, I'm different than Mark. I

859
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 5: think because one, I think I could be very real

860
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 5: about like, hey, man, like the person you're in love

861
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 5: with inside, Uh, she's like untouchable. I'm outside like we're

862
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 5: really at an impas here. I doubt they're going to

863
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 5: keep sending her down there anyway. It sounds like this

864
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 5: was a temp thing, projects finished and wrapped. So I'm

865
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 5: not trying.

866
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: Say already you're already You're like, no, no, no, I'm not.

867
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 5: I'm trying to tell you if you want your out,

868
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 5: here's okay. Here's the deal I make. If you want Helly,

869
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 5: I would have gotten her name right. If you want Helly, yes, definitely,

870
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 5: then here's what we'll do. We have to get out

871
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 5: so we can go back in. And by this I

872
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 5: mean if you can bring Gemma out, if we can

873
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 5: merge into one.

874
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 2: Person, bring HELLI and I'll either bring.

875
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 5: Helly out with you or if she doesn't come with you,

876
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 5: I will storm. Gemma's gonna be mad. We should have

877
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 5: enough evidence to go after Lum and I will go

878
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,439
Speaker 5: back and I will get you over. Oh gee, Helly

879
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 5: like this lady knows how to sever people. Sure she

880
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,399
Speaker 5: could just tap into your brainch of or she created it,

881
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 5: but we got the whole ken here. We just need

882
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 5: a plan. If you will be patient with us and

883
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 5: work with us, you know we've got you. And if

884
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 5: you okay, how do I get Because I think the

885
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 5: thing that would have really helped any Mark is a

886
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 5: guarantee of some kind that we're not going to delete you. Yes,

887
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 5: And so I think you would need to take something

888
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 5: or someone you can't take harmony. Could you get Devin

889
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 5: in there on like the side staircase and be like, listen,

890
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 5: this is like this my most treasured person. I would

891
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 5: take my brother, this is the person I love most.

892
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 2: In the world.

893
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: Probably couldn't even get her on the ground. It's a challenge.

894
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 5: It's just a matter of face, you know what. Okay,

895
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 5: So second approach, Second approach, I'm just gonna listen to you.

896
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 5: I'm gonna play the listening card. I would say, you

897
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 5: tell me your needs. I'm not gonna try.

898
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 2: To see you.

899
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 5: Let's take some time to hear what your needs are,

900
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 5: what you would like to see, how you'd like this

901
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 5: operation to go, give you a lot.

902
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: Of That's the way I would go. And then with

903
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: that information of what might what any Mark wants, I

904
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 1: would then set about lying to him about that he's

905
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: gonna be a lie and kill his I don't think,

906
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 1: I truly don't think there's any way to get Audie

907
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: Mark out and Gemma out without telling him everything he

908
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: needs to hear that you're going to be a full person,

909
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: that reintegration is not going to erase you, that you're

910
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: gonna be with Helly. Are those things true or even achievable? Fuck?

911
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 1: No they are not. But none of those But without

912
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: those things you're not getting out period.

913
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 2: The thing that makes me laugh as well is like

914
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 2: they didn't know about the stack case, So I'm like,

915
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 2: why don't.

916
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: You just around him and just fucking Jason told him.

917
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 2: I might just say just be like, hey man, you

918
00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 2: know what that staircase when you step through it become any,

919
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 2: You become your any of the outside. It's like the

920
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 2: OTC again, it's.

921
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 1: Like switch the process, so like you're actually gonna be

922
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: yourself because they.

923
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 2: Knew he had to go through that door. I feel

924
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 2: like they could have lied Tim better about the door

925
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 2: and like being some kind of thing, But the truth

926
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 2: is none of that would have helped because they're both

927
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 2: in such an emotionally chaotic.

928
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: And like this is why it's so fascinating that exactly

929
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: because you because the idea doesn't really like come into

930
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: it in the way that they are living.

931
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 2: Through it, but it's very easy.

932
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 1: And also like bomb chair any First of all, this

933
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: process should never exist, yes, like if if it's other

934
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 1: technologically feasible, it should never do it. Because of this,

935
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 1: scientists don't do it. The I like, the conversation around

936
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: are any people is so multifaceted that I can't it

937
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 1: just thinking about it here in this space as an

938
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: audience member, Like in that world, it must have been

939
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: very very very toward like the debate around it, because

940
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 1: like is it okay? So if I, like, let's say

941
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: I get concussed and I don't quite remember everything about

942
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: my life in that moment when I'm concussed, am I

943
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,760
Speaker 1: a different guy? And so should I then not treat

944
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: the concussion to become myself again? Because like, is that

945
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: is that oppressing this other concusted personal There's so many cats.

946
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was thinking about the autonomy the whole time,

947
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 5: like this is my body guy's earlier point, like I

948
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 5: created this person if on the lines of like I'm

949
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 5: an individual who believes in abortion, rights is this is

950
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,439
Speaker 5: this the thing of like, hey listen, I I don't

951
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 5: want to do this anymore. I have a right to

952
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 5: live every day to bullet, I have a right to say.

953
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 1: I know this right and it's my body.

954
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 5: I think what Dylan has done, like the audi Dylan

955
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 5: has fully seen And this is the other thing I

956
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 5: was sort of pinging against for the whole you so far,

957
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 5: It's like there's a level of like self respect conversation

958
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 5: that's happening too, Like this is still you like and

959
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 5: that's the yeah. And I was really thinking about Helly

960
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 5: today too. So Helena. Helena refers to innis as animals

961
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 5: at one point.

962
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 2: And they talk about them being leashed and stuff like that.

963
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 1: There's the world.

964
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 5: Sort of racism and othering and all of that. But

965
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 5: if you consider her behavior and her father's behavior and

966
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 5: how similar they are to innis, they like like as

967
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 5: when they're first severed, they're emotionless. They're trying their hard

968
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 5: is not they're not EMOTIONALSS. They're trying to suppress their emotions.

969
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 5: They're trying not to feel anything in their natural day

970
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 5: to day lives. Every time we see Helena, we see

971
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 5: her a lot alone. She does that cool thing in

972
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 5: the bathroom, Like she's constantly alone, and even if she's.

973
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 2: With people, you're trying to a like feeling.

974
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, And so I find it really intriguing that this

975
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 5: thing that they have such hate and detest for it

976
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,959
Speaker 5: and think of as lower, that they're mirroring, and which

977
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 5: loves me right back into this idea of self hate.

978
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 5: Like it's just it's so.

979
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 1: Even even even as like, oh, I don't.

980
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 5: Like my daughter, but in you, in you, I see

981
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 5: the daughter you wanted. But you think like that is

982
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 5: just so.

983
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 2: Crazy.

984
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: As much as this is.

985
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 5: About it's I also really think it's about like the

986
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 5: corruption of hate and the way that that whether it's

987
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 5: self hate, whether it's hate of a situation, whether it's

988
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 5: hate of other people, like the way that keeps looping

989
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 5: and permeating throughout is so fascinating for a mystery box

990
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 5: show to end it season two here, I think it's

991
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 5: just I really like the choices they made. They don't

992
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 5: give you enough answers. That's fine, you don't want all

993
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 5: the answers anyway, you think you do, you feel like

994
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 5: you do, You don't you want to have everybody.

995
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: I a little further, I don't even say. I think

996
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: that a lot of the things that we're expecting answers

997
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 1: on are kind of they're empty boxes. They're they're not

998
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: like actually like the goats, for instance, we thought there

999
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:07,359
Speaker 1: was going to be this whole other thing. It's really

1000
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: just like a ritual probably rooted in the roots of

1001
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: the company and the family.

1002
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: In the century fish.

1003
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, as many people in our discord have called them

1004
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 1: a cult, which I think is essentially true. And I

1005
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: think a lot of the stuff is you know, I

1006
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: think about the weir having been a part of like

1007
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: various startups. There's these weird like cultural handoffs that happen

1008
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: where it's like you have like these four people that

1009
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: started a company and like they had like this lingo

1010
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: where they would call like let's say, they like would

1011
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 1: all have coffee together and like when they were starting

1012
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,280
Speaker 1: a company and talk about like issues in the company,

1013
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 1: and they called it like Java time. And so when

1014
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: as the company expands, they create, Hey, something we do

1015
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,399
Speaker 1: here is called Java time, and and like and the

1016
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: weirdness of that when you try to level it up

1017
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 1: to other people who weren't people. And I think a

1018
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: lot of the weirdness that we see in the company,

1019
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: where it's the animatronic Jame or the weird Lingo or

1020
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: the fucking weird foods and the pineapples. Is just that

1021
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: it's stuff that had meaning earlier to a smaller group

1022
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: of people that then they decided, oh well, workers are

1023
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: like family question Mark air quotes, right, and therefore as

1024
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 1: part of this family, they're going to take part in

1025
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: this culture, and they've lost touch with whatever that originally meant.

1026
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: So now it's just weird stuff. So I think a

1027
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: lot of the things that happen in the show is

1028
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 1: kind of purposefully inscrutable, weird stuff that meant something earlier

1029
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: that doesn't.

1030
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 5: Mean anything anymore.

1031
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so going into season we know season three

1032
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: got announced, great news for us. This was one of

1033
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 2: the biggest questions in the discord. I know first off,

1034
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 2: A specifically was like, hey, where do we go? Like

1035
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 2: what is season three? What is left to go? Like, so,

1036
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 2: what are you guys before we end? Like what are

1037
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 2: you guys biggest season three feelings? Is it gonna go?

1038
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,439
Speaker 2: And tell? Bring up being back? Joel said, bring him back?

1039
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 5: I think for season three I need I would very

1040
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 5: much like to get I started talked about this last week,

1041
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 5: we're constant seeing these movements of like liberation or or

1042
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 5: at least rebellion. I want to see like and we've

1043
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 5: seen the departments slowly grow closer together. I want to

1044
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 5: see a unified rebellion of the innies. I want I

1045
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 5: want a little drummer boy from the marching band, like Oh,

1046
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 5: I want like playing raids on the upstairs. I want

1047
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 5: chip like manipulation from the doc because like the nurse

1048
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 5: seems to be, Like the nurse is just chaotic. I

1049
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 5: really wouldn't need more of her.

1050
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 2: I just it's spell is so good. Also, I would

1051
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 2: say I like that idea, Joel. I was some think

1052
00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 2: that's truth us. But I made a good point, which

1053
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 2: was kind of like you can only have like an

1054
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 2: inny sit in for a few days, Like there's only

1055
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 2: they're only gonna let that happen. What I would love

1056
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 2: to see is kind of your classic I think now,

1057
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 2: like you said, I feel like the outer world. I

1058
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 2: do stand with the idea that I think lumin actually

1059
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 2: has less impact than we maybe thought on the outer world.

1060
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 2: But I think the interior world of lumin, of the building,

1061
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 2: of the corridors, of the rooms of the floors of

1062
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 2: the departments is huge and we still haven't explored it.

1063
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 2: I would love to see a rebellion that kind of

1064
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 2: takes your classic like martial arts movie rules from Bruce

1065
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 2: Lee to movies like The Raid. I would love to

1066
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 2: see them kind of fight their way up Yah law

1067
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 2: By or whatever the rebellion is. So then we get

1068
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 2: to see all these different spaces. We maybe get to

1069
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 2: learn a bit more about the law. Maybe we don't.

1070
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 2: And I'm yeah, I'm very interested because I feel like

1071
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 2: Helly and Mark s have actually I feel like they

1072
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 2: just have like a really this is a good ending

1073
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 2: for them, honestly. Like so I'm more interested now in

1074
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 2: the rest of the people in the Sabbath floor I

1075
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 2: want to know about. I mean choreography and merriment that

1076
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 2: to me is like sucks.

1077
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: Were all the people of color that were Yeah.

1078
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 2: Exactly, and not just that, but imagine that you take

1079
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 2: something that is for people a liberatory thing, playing music

1080
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 2: that has a cultural resonance, but then you trap someone

1081
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 2: in having to do that twenty four hours a day

1082
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 2: and losing any kind of connection to what it means

1083
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 2: outside of your life. I think that is like has

1084
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 2: so much potential to explore some of the themes they

1085
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 2: learn on the outside.

1086
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. Were they able to filter that

1087
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 1: thing exactly.

1088
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 2: Like I think's and I think that the kind of

1089
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 2: notion of a rebellion or uprising that fights its way

1090
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 2: through the different spaces in Lumen and in this building

1091
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 2: is really interesting. Also, I love a big swing, So

1092
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, if they want to white lotus this shit

1093
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 2: and suddenly there's we're in with miss Wag and we're

1094
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 2: in a different like country and maybe you know our

1095
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 2: beloved and complex Seth Miltchik, maybe he is your kind

1096
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 2: of Natasha Rothwell or Jennifer Coolidge who maybe gets to

1097
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 2: travel between these worlds. I think they could do anything,

1098
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 2: because I do think generally they have managed to make

1099
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 2: an emotionally satisfying ending that would just be talked about

1100
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 2: for you know, I think a lot about Watchmen, like

1101
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 2: letting the season of Watchmen finish after one season has

1102
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 2: done so much for keeping it in the public consciousness,

1103
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 2: keeping the conversations around it going. And I think that

1104
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 2: there's a version where finishing this story about this group

1105
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 2: of severed people is It wouldn't be a terrible thing,

1106
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 2: but I would love to see Gemma, you know, I

1107
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 2: think I think if we another obvious route that I

1108
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 2: think is more likely than the one I just set

1109
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:06,919
Speaker 2: forth is like you put Gemma in the leading role

1110
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 2: and it's about her trying to go and get Mark back.

1111
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 2: I think that's a great inversion, and probably.

1112
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 1: The police say that Season three, sadly is going to

1113
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: have to be the one where we finally deal with

1114
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: that question, which is why don't you just call the

1115
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: fucking police.

1116
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 2: That is actually I think adds to my notion of

1117
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 2: like Lumin doesn't have that much impact, but a rich

1118
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 2: family that basically owns like a small town or.

1119
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: See the news, you call the police.

1120
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 2: That's what we need to know.

1121
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 1: They I mean, with Jemma out now, you can't actually

1122
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 1: put a lit.

1123
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 5: Scientology.

1124
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I know. My worst I think

1125
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 2: my worst version would be like you know, we've all

1126
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 2: talked about Devon as an op and actually but she

1127
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 2: could also just be dumb. But like my worst version

1128
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 2: would be like a shock you know, season opener, where

1129
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 2: like Jemma gets out of Lumin and just gets like

1130
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 2: shot in the head by Devin or something. So they're like, well,

1131
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 2: now it's not out so we can keep it a secret,

1132
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 2: like I need Gemma to have if she if we're

1133
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 2: following the same characters next season, I need Jemma to

1134
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 2: be a lead, and I need to know more about her.

1135
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 2: I want to know about her perception of her relationship

1136
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 2: with Mark. I want to know. I want to have

1137
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 2: the chance to see that. And they love an inversion

1138
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 2: in this show. Like the beginning of the season, Mark's

1139
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 2: running around, you know, inside the corridors. At the end

1140
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 2: we have him running away. I think that there's a

1141
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 2: chance that we get to switch to Jemma's perspective. But Jason,

1142
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 2: you're right, like they got to call someone. They got

1143
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 2: to call like Dateline or some shit, Like somebody has

1144
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 2: got to investigate this.

1145
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 1: Uh, It'll be interesting to see how it evolves from there,

1146
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: because you got to figure the story about Lumen has

1147
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: got to blow up from here. I do agree that

1148
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 1: I think the any revolution continues, but how much further

1149
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 1: can it go if the government or somebody pulls the

1150
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 1: plug on it. I think any Mark and Helly's run

1151
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 1: through the maze, I would imagine it's going to be

1152
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 1: a lot of Season three, And I think that as

1153
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 1: hinted at by Jame. I think we're going to see

1154
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: the thing where Jame is like, you know what flip

1155
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: helly are and my daughter. I want my daughter to

1156
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 1: be Helly R. And I want so like, let's flip

1157
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: her and have her be the pro consciousness because that's

1158
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 1: so hard but makes.

1159
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 2: So much sense because its very much analogous to the

1160
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 2: kind of way that women were, you know, in prison

1161
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 2: for having babies outside of wedlock or because they their

1162
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 2: husbands were abusive and they didn't like it like that.

1163
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 2: I think there's like a lot of interesting historical kind

1164
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 2: of analogies.

1165
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 1: I think that there, And to put even like a

1166
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 1: sharper point on it, I think that there's something really

1167
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: ominous about a guy who is attracted is maybe the

1168
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: wrong word, but like intrigued by someone who resists him.

1169
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, and tell that is.

1170
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: The thing that he Oh, I see hearing you when

1171
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 1: you object violently to what I want. I think that's

1172
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 1: he is an armist character. So I think, like, you know,

1173
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 1: bringing him more into the story I think is probably

1174
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: necessary for a season three, Like let's really he probably

1175
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: wants to get our real he's our villain off the

1176
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 1: cold failed to.

1177
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:39,280
Speaker 2: I think so. I think it's easy.

1178
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: I also liked a lot of our people. A lot

1179
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: of the folks in our discord were like, I like

1180
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: the fact that James just kind of a fucking idiot. Yeah,

1181
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: just like he's just like a NEPO son who didn't

1182
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 1: create anything at all. His dad, his grandfather created the company,

1183
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 1: his underling that he was managing, created the groundbreaking technology

1184
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 1: that the company is now known for, and he's just

1185
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: there doing weird shit in the backfucking corners of the

1186
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 1: fucking company. I can't wait for seasons. It's very very excited.

1187
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 1: What an incredible season this has been and really fun

1188
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 1: to talk about.

1189
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 2: Definitely. I also want to ask Ben Stilla, if you're listening, Ben,

1190
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 2: I know you definitely are, like how much did how

1191
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 2: much did you enjoy the Jordan Peele movie Us? Because

1192
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 2: when I was rewatching, I was thinking about how so

1193
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 2: much of this is like the tevit and the rights

1194
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 2: of the tenet and having to live on the ground,

1195
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 2: and I'm just like, I would love to know if

1196
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 2: that was like an influence on this, because I especially

1197
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 2: think once we start to think about switching people out,

1198
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 2: it very much reflects that I thinks Run comp two.

1199
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that makes so much.

1200
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 5: I mean, the film history all over this show is

1201
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,959
Speaker 5: I mean, it was just really it's light to kind

1202
01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 5: of dive in and make all of these pair.

1203
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, let's come back and the lead up to

1204
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 2: season three, let's dig into some of those and just

1205
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 2: kind of talk about movies to watch if you love severance.

1206
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 1: In the next few episodes of X ray Vision, we're

1207
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 1: diving into Darted, Evil Born Again one O five and

1208
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 1: one O six, and next week we talk about the

1209
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 1: news coming out of Nintendo Direct. That's it for this episode.

1210
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 2: Next for listening. Bye.

1211
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie

1212
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 1: Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcast.

1213
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kortman.

1214
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.

1215
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 2: Our producers are Common Laurent, Dean Jonathan and Bay Wack.

1216
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

1217
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

1218
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and

1219
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 2: Heidi our discord moderator.