1 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: Book of a strictly business varieties weekly podcasts featuring conversations 2 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: about the business of media and entertainment. 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 2: I'm TV business writer Jennifer Moss. 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: Nebula, which launched in twenty nineteen, describes itself as a 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: creator focused, creator built, creator first premium streaming service akin 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: to a Netflix or Hulu, but with the athos of Patreon. 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: The four year old indie streaming service, which is backed 8 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: by creator owned management company Standard and a minority stake 9 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: held by Curiosity Stream, costs five dollars a month or 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: fifty dollars a year to subscribe to. It currently tolls 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: six hundred and fifty thousand subscribers and past one hundred 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: thousand daily active users in October. Nebula is home to 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: the popular amazing race style online competition series Jetlag The Game, 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: which is half a million subscribers on YouTube, as well 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: as the Theater in the Round, Shakespearean trans Coming Out 16 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: Story of the Prince, and Night of the Coconut, the 17 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: debut film from Patrick Wilms. Unlike other streamers, Nebula sees 18 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: YouTube as a partner, not a competitor, with episodes of 19 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: Nebula series usually seeing a week long exclusive window on 20 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: Nebula before creators post them to YouTube and use them 21 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: to in turn promote Nebula. In August, Nebula named jet 22 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: Lagstar Sam Dunby its first chief content officer, and is 23 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: currently promoting its fall lineup of originals. We'll be back 24 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: with Dave after this break here to talk about the 25 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: growth of the indie platform and plans to expand on 26 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: its slate of original series on today's Strictly Business podcast 27 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: is Nebula CEO Dave Whiscus. I'd like to start with, 28 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: just for our audience members who might not be familiar 29 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: with Nebula, what is it in your own roof? 30 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 3: There should be an easier answer to this question. Makes 31 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 3: it complicated is that nothing like this has really been 32 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 3: achieved before. And I don't necessarily mean that in a 33 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 3: grand standing sort of way. It's just that it always 34 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 3: ends up being like a tech company who tries to 35 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 3: do a thing with creators, or an entertainment media company 36 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 3: who tries to do user generated content stuff like Quibi 37 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 3: or something. It's never the creators starting their own thing 38 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 3: and then like really landing it. And in our case, 39 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 3: it's a group of creators who got together because we 40 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 3: saw that very simply on a creator career path, step 41 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 3: one is YouTube or whatever, and step say ten is Netflix. 42 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 3: The problem is where are steps two through nine? If 43 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 3: we want that to exist, we want to build that bridge. 44 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 3: We have to build it. And so the purpose of Nebula, 45 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 3: the thing that we're building, the thing that we have built, 46 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 3: it is intended to be a way for the creators 47 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 3: to to sort of traverse the the vast space between 48 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 3: user generating content and more traditionally accepted forms of media 49 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 3: and entertainment. And it's it's almost a fraught answer to 50 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 3: say to focus on, like what the creators get out 51 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 3: of this, But what we've learned is that so much 52 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 3: of the relationship, so much of what makes this this 53 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 3: kind of thing powerful, is the relationship between the audience 54 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 3: and the creator. That's where we win. It's that sort 55 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 3: of parasocial dynamics. So for the audience at the base level, 56 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: earliest days, it's about getting access to things early, it's 57 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 3: about getting access to behind the scenes content. Not this 58 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 3: similar from like the value proposition of a Patreon or 59 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 3: something like that. As we look out into the future, 60 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 3: we've always been building up our originals, building up our 61 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: stable of you know, content that is made here and 62 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 3: in the case of like a jet lag might end 63 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 3: up also on YouTube as a way to pull people in, 64 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 3: but things that have our logo on it. The idea 65 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 3: is a little bit less Patreon, a little bit more 66 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 3: a twenty four which can be a brand definition here's 67 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 3: what creators are capable of. And then step three in that, 68 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 3: I guess, is Nebula being more of a Netflix style 69 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 3: destination home for really great things that are made by 70 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 3: people who might not have had the opportunity or the 71 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 3: means to do those projects within the traditional Hollywood system 72 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 3: or traditional media system. 73 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 2: What is again asking you to define here? 74 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: Standard which is a company that is behind Nebula and 75 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: existed preceded Nebula's launch. 76 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 3: Very simply a talent management company. We work with a 77 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 3: bunch of creators. We book sponsors on their shows and 78 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 3: help them develop their businesses. And along the way we 79 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 3: realize that there are some gaps in the industry, like 80 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 3: around licensing and things like that, and we had been 81 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 3: working We've been chatting with YouTube back when they were 82 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 3: still doing originals. They had asked us for some pitches 83 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 3: for original shows. We sent them over and they kind 84 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 3: of never got back to us. So we decided, no, what, 85 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 3: We're going to start our own streaming video platform. 86 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 4: So standard is there to help creators build and guide 87 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 4: and run their business operations, and Nebulas is kind of 88 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 4: a consequence of that. 89 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: When we're exactly if you remember where and when where 90 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: Nebula came from and what was part of the we 91 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: can actually make this work when something like a Vessel 92 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: did not work. 93 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Vessel was like as a technology driven 94 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 3: technology solution made by technology people. There's business, there's technology, 95 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 3: there's maybe some entertainment media in there. I don't want 96 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 3: to comment too hard on them. But for us, it 97 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 3: came organically. We had been approached by the group that 98 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 3: was building what became Peacock in the end, wanting to 99 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 3: bring like user generated content stuff onto a new platform 100 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 3: they were building. They wanted to talk licensing, but how 101 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 3: they approached the licensing deals it sort of didn't make 102 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 3: much sense because it would be wildly different from creator 103 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 3: to creator, and we kind of wanted to take the 104 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 3: collective bargaining power, the leverage that we had as a 105 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 3: as a group and kind of get everybody a more 106 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 3: consistent deal. At the same time, we were being approached 107 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: by Vimeo, the lovely people at Vimeo who they were saying, 108 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 3: they picked one creator and they said, this person should 109 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 3: have their own streaming service. We can build an over 110 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 3: the top solution and empower that streaming service as well. 111 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 3: That guy makes a video every three months. What kind 112 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 3: of streaming service would that be? You're paying what five 113 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 3: dollars a month for a content catalog of sixteen videos? 114 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 3: Come on like that doesn't And they said, do you 115 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: have any other creators who are more frequent, who for 116 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 3: whom that would make sense? And said, well, no, The 117 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 3: only way that would really make any times as if 118 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 3: it were all of the creators, And oh, oh, that's 119 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 3: an idea. What if we did that? And looking at 120 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 3: the over the top streaming solutions at the time, how 121 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 3: cheap it had gotten, and how doing something like that 122 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 3: could provide a content licensing engine. Potentially there were multiple 123 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 3: problems that could be solved at once, the licensing thing 124 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 3: and you know, building out some sort of test bed 125 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 3: of a new business venture for creators. And I took 126 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 3: the idea to it. This would have been i want 127 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 3: to say, November of twenty eighteen October November of twenty eighteen. 128 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 3: I took to the creators and I've put this long 129 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 3: email like here's kind of what I'm thinking, here's my 130 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 3: vision for this. And I expected it would be a 131 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 3: six month climb to convince everybody like, let's get it, 132 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 3: let's get everybody on board. I knew that I could 133 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 3: because it was just it was inexpensive enough that there 134 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 3: wasn't a ton of risk in it, which had to 135 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 3: come up with enough value proposition to the creators. So 136 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 3: I figured out, well, give me six months and I'll 137 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 3: eventually get everybody there. I sent out the email and 138 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 3: instantly every single creator was like, we have to do this. 139 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 2: Let's go getting going doing that. I know you will. 140 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: Started with I think it's one hundred thousand dollars to 141 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: get Nebiella actually ready for a launch. 142 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: Where did that from? I know you didn't have venture capital. 143 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 3: The extent that that can be true, it is true 144 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 3: because the calculus there is how much were we paying 145 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 3: the engineer who was working on it for the time 146 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 3: that they are the engineers who were working on it 147 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 3: over the time that they spent working on it. It 148 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 3: wasn't like we wrote a hundred thousand dollars check. It's 149 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 3: more like we as a business standard. We have a 150 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 3: whole what you can call it. We have a back 151 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 3: end software that we developed, the help power like Creator Things, 152 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 3: this booking of sponsors and voicing stuff like that. It 153 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 3: was sort of like a little mini sales force for 154 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 3: Creator Things, and we've been building that since twenty seventeen, 155 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, oh, twenty seventeen. The engineering team was working 156 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 3: on it when we were looking at doing an over 157 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 3: the top video solution. Well, like I said, we're talking 158 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 3: to Vimeo, but they wanted to own the credit card relationship. 159 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 3: And coming from my years of working with Apple as 160 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 3: a designer, I was keenly aware and my years of 161 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 3: being a musician, I was keenly aware that what made 162 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 3: the iTunes music store work is that when you want 163 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 3: another song, Apple already has your credit card number, you 164 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 3: just press a button. And what made the app store 165 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 3: work is that when you want that new app, Apple 166 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 3: already has your credit card number and you press a button. 167 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 3: By giving Vimeo full ownership of the credit card relationship, 168 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 3: we would potentially be cutting ourselves off future opportunities where 169 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 3: we could do cool, interesting you know, integrations of sorts 170 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 3: by virtue of just you know, we don't even own 171 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 3: the actual relationship, and you know what if things fell 172 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,719 Speaker 3: apart with that company, anything had happened, we don't want 173 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 3: to We don't want to cut off all future possibilities. 174 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 3: And so we found a different partner instead, and it 175 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 3: required a little bit of development effort on our side. 176 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 3: So we just we knew we could either reassign an 177 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 3: engineer or make one more higher, and so we just 178 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 3: made one more higher onto the team. And then as 179 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 3: the project developed, it became a little bit more complex 180 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 3: when we made a second higher and I think we 181 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 3: only had the two people. By launch, there was like 182 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 3: two engineers working on it, which is where we came 183 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 3: up with the number like those two engineers over that 184 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 3: period of time, roughly one hundred k. Not an exact 185 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 3: science on that. It's hard for it to because they 186 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 3: were also working on other stuff at the same time, 187 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 3: but the money came from Standard was profitable. We had 188 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 3: those resources and the intent was always let's keep reinvesting 189 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 3: our successes into building more successes. And this was a 190 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 3: thing that felt like it could potentially become something. We 191 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 3: had no idea that it would turn into this. I mean, 192 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 3: I guess we had hopes, but even our hopes, it 193 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 3: never quite This never seems possible, this never seemed. 194 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: Realistic talking about what it has turned into. This is 195 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: and correct me if any of this is out of date. 196 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: But currently Nebula is valued at one hundred and fifty 197 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: million and there are six hundred and fifty thousand paying 198 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: users and that's still with no venture capital funding. 199 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 3: Pretty close Standard. The valuation is on Standard because it's confusing. 200 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 3: Standard is the company that owns Nebula, and while Nebula 201 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 3: is technically a separate LLC for a handful of reasons, 202 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 3: when we talk valuation, we're talking about the entirety of 203 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 3: the machine. So much of the creator relationships and audience 204 00:11:57,640 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 3: relationships and partnerships and everything happened up at the stand 205 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 3: undred level, so it's kind of it's hard to fully 206 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 3: disconnect the two. But in that number, when we came 207 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: up with the number, it was based on like the 208 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 3: totality of everything that we're doing, okay, and then the year, Yeah, 209 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 3: six hundred and at the moment, like six hundred and 210 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 3: eighty thousand, okay, And. 211 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: Then I believe you tweeted recently that Nebula just passed 212 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand daily active users. 213 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a fun one, and we're we're getting 214 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 3: close to three hundred thousand monthly active all right. 215 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: So with that behind it, you know, we've talked a 216 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: lot about the business mechanics of getting it launched first, 217 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: but where are those views coming from the content on Nebula? 218 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: What can you explain what the system is and the 219 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: current funneling of the exclusive window of this content before 220 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: creators post it elsewhere like on YouTube. 221 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 3: It's really to choose your own adventure story as a creator. 222 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 3: If you want to make things that only live on Nebula, 223 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 3: you can. If you want to make things that live 224 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 3: on Nebula for a week and then go to YouTube, 225 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 3: you can. We have different naming structures for these things 226 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 3: to try to disambiguate it for the audience, but the 227 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 3: intent is that Nebula is like the canonical home of 228 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 3: the things that these creators make. And in the case 229 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 3: of jet Lag, the business model is built around the 230 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 3: YouTube version that every video ends with a cliffhanger that 231 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 3: makes you want to go sign up for Nebula that 232 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 3: was baked in from day one. That's always been the plan, 233 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 3: and that works very effectively. And there are some creators 234 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 3: who they were able to get ahead on schedule, and 235 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 3: you know, maybe they make one video per month, but 236 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 3: they got a head on schedule. So the video always 237 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 3: goes to Nebula, and then last month's video goes to 238 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 3: YouTube at the same time, and we call those Nebula. First, 239 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 3: there's full on Nebula original productions which will only ever 240 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 3: be on Nebula, and then there's like bonus content kind 241 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 3: of DVD extras we call Nebula. Plus. The way that 242 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 3: the audience comes in sort of depends on the creator. 243 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 3: For some creators, they sign up because they really want 244 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 3: to see the next video. For some creators, the audience 245 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 3: signs up because there's bonus stuff that they really want 246 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 3: to see. For some creators, many creators, it's talking about 247 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 3: the originals is what pulls people in. And then there's 248 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 3: of course the people who come and sign up just 249 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 3: because they want to support the creators. Again, I think 250 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 3: that what makes us so different and what's hard for 251 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 3: more traditional systems to it's hard to fit us in 252 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: with more traditional systems because the audience, a large portion 253 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 3: of the audience signs up for Nebula because they believe 254 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 3: in us and they want to support these creators. I 255 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 3: don't think Disney has that kind of relationship. I don't 256 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,119 Speaker 3: think Netflix has that kind of relationship. 257 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 2: We'll be back with more from Dave after this break 258 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 2: into Netflix. I know there was a stot that. 259 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: Nebula is second only to Netflix and customer retention. 260 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 2: How do you guys measure that churn? 261 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 3: We're using antenna data for that. I believe Netflix is 262 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 3: three point six percent churn rate and the purported number 263 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 3: two Disney plus is around four and a half percent 264 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 3: turn rate based on the last numbers that we saw, 265 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 3: and we, depending on where we are in a month, 266 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 3: hover between like three point eight to four percent. So 267 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 3: according to Antenna data, if they were to classify us 268 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 3: in the same ranking, we would be number two for 269 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 3: customer attention, behind Netflix. 270 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 2: What would you say is the biggest factor keeping that 271 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 2: churn rate for you? 272 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 3: I think the audience just really loves the creators. They 273 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 3: want to see the creators succeed, and when they come in, 274 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 3: they stay because they're they're invested in the story. And 275 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 3: the cheap cop out retort to that would be that 276 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 3: so many of our customers come in like overall, a 277 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 3: little over fifty percent of the people who sign up 278 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 3: for Nebula sign up for annual plans, So of course 279 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 3: monthly train is going to be low. And Netflix doesn't 280 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 3: offer an annual plan. I don't believe many of the 281 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 3: big streamers don't, which is weird. I've got thoughts on that, 282 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 3: But I would argue that the reason that our customers 283 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 3: sign up for annuals so heavily to begin with is 284 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 3: because they they know what they're getting into, they're committing. 285 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 3: They know that we get more money up front, they 286 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 3: know that things are going to grow and evolve over time. 287 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 3: They know that they're going to get more stuff. Why 288 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 3: wouldn't they spend thirty bucks? And I think that's what 289 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 3: it comes down to. They believe in what we're doing. 290 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 3: They want to see how this unfolds, and they're making 291 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 3: a one year investment. 292 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: In that story, we mentioned jet Lag, but I'm going 293 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: to go into a little more specifically now, the travel 294 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: game show that I'm obsessed with and the reason I 295 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: signed up for Nebula. When I first discovered jet Lag, 296 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: I watched everything currently available on YouTube, and I believe 297 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: we were in the middle of one of the seasons 298 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: at that point. Then I went and signed up Fornibula 299 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: because I wanted to see what was currently there. We 300 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: got you, Yeah, you got me, and I watched Crime Spree, 301 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: which for people to know that was like the unoffsual 302 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: first season that's only available to stream on Nebula. So 303 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: I'd love to get an idea during a season of 304 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: jet Lag or if you have another example of another 305 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,719 Speaker 1: show that has that same format on Nebula, what do 306 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: sign ups look like? What is kind of the bump 307 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: that you get from something like that, especially given that 308 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: if I wanted to, I could wait and watch it 309 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: all on YouTube, you. 310 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 3: Could, or you could sign up. It's thirty bucks a year, 311 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 3: which comes out to be two dollars and fifty cents 312 00:17:53,960 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 3: a month. You know, we've done premiere events where if 313 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 3: you're a Nebulus subscriber you get to it's first come 314 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,479 Speaker 3: for serve. But if you're a Nebula subscriber, you can 315 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 3: just come to the premiere let us know. We'll get 316 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 3: you to the spot, and the spots usually I say 317 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 3: sell out, they're free. The spots sell out like within minutes, 318 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 3: and we'll get every single time we'll get one or 319 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 3: two people who are like, if I'm not signed up 320 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 3: for Nebula, can I just buy a ticket? And the 321 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 3: answer is yeah, it's thirty dollars and it comes with 322 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 3: a free year of Nebula. Like, it's thirty dollars. Your 323 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 3: uber to the venue is going to cost you. That 324 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 3: the price point is so low, especially relative to other streamers. 325 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 3: I'm not saying that this is no money, and I 326 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 3: don't want to ignore that that there's income disparity. I 327 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 3: don't want to make that assumption. But when you consider 328 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 3: the emotional attachment that the audiences tend to have, and 329 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 3: for a show like jet Lag, people really love Sam 330 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 3: and Ben and Adam, they love them. The jet Lags 331 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 3: are kind of intense about it. They're the they have 332 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 3: a lot of fun. We get fan art. I get 333 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 3: fan art. I'm not even on the show. Jet Lag. 334 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 3: Fans drop pictures of all of us and they are 335 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 3: constantly discussing us on Discord and on Twitter, and they 336 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 3: just really, really really love the show and that kind 337 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 3: of emotional attachment. Of course, they want to see the 338 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 3: next episode. When something can reach people and bring a 339 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 3: little bit of joy like that, and it has that 340 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 3: spirit of independence. It's not a big budget Hollywood style 341 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 3: game show production that's all full of spectacle, and like, 342 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 3: this is people doing a thing that it looks like 343 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 3: you could do that. We get people asking all the time, 344 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: can you make like a home version that I could 345 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 3: play with my friends, or can will you sell the 346 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 3: cards so that I can do the same thing. But 347 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 3: we're careful about that because I don't want to encourage 348 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 3: people to jump on planes or do anything that annoys 349 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 3: other people. And a bigger conversations we had about how 350 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 3: a thing like that could be done ethically. I know 351 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,239 Speaker 3: that the jet Lag team works really hard to make 352 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 3: sure that anything they do, like when they film, they're 353 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 3: always consciously people's privacy. They're not out there to be 354 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,719 Speaker 3: like you know, jerk YouTubers getting everybody's way, and so 355 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 3: coming up with a way to share that that isn't 356 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 3: encouraging people to be obnoxious as something, but that kind 357 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 3: of relationship when an audience loves to show that much, 358 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 3: and when it's that easy to project yourself in or 359 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 3: feel like you're friends with these people, of course you 360 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 3: want to hit the button. That's not the hill to climb, 361 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 3: you know, A five dollars a month or thirty dollars 362 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 3: a year hill to sign up for that not insurmountable, 363 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 3: and so we do see a pretty big bump obviously 364 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 3: when jet Lags on air, we conversions sign ups for 365 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 3: jet Lag go up dramatically, but it kind of happens 366 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 3: that way. We have shows that drive huge numbers. Interestingly, 367 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 3: by various metrics, jet Lag is not our number one show. 368 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 3: It is, I think by audience engagement in terms of 369 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 3: just people being excited about it and sending us fan art, 370 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 3: certainly our number one show, but not always by watch time, 371 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 3: not always by sign ups. So whenever certain kinds of 372 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 3: projects go out, I think jet Legs are our only 373 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 3: travel or game show style thing at the moment in 374 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 3: that format. We're working on some stuff, handful of things. 375 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 3: We don't want to just make jet Lag two. We 376 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 3: want to be really careful about one not saturating, but 377 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 3: two not like, I don't know, diluting, if that makes sense. 378 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 3: We want to reinvest our success into doing something creatively interesting, 379 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: not just doing the same thing again. But there's a 380 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 3: number of formats. Different creators work on different things. It's 381 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 3: more about like audience depth and audience love will drive 382 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 3: the big numbers. 383 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 2: So with that all that said, why is. 384 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: Jet LaGG not exclusively on Nebula, And that same question 385 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: going for any really high trafficking Nebula stuff, and if 386 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: those conversations have ever been had with those creators and 387 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: why from a business standpoint, someone would see, well, obviously 388 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: this does very well and it could do better if 389 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: it only existed here. 390 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 3: It's easy to think that what we're building is a 391 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 3: YouTube competitor, and if you imagine it as a YouTube competitor, 392 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 3: it's easy to think that anything we do from any 393 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 3: creator we work with, the goal should be for it 394 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 3: to be exclusively on Nebula. What we're really building is 395 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 3: a Netflix competitor, and the path we're going to have 396 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 3: to take to get there. YouTube is our biggest partner. 397 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 3: YouTube is our closest ally. YouTube is the top of 398 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 3: the funnel for us. We're just sold bit further down, 399 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 3: and the way that the audience dynamics work, the YouTube algorithm, 400 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 3: much maligned, is our greatest champion. It's out there finding 401 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 3: new fans for us. It's out there finding new people 402 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 3: who love the things that our creators make. And so 403 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 3: we've designed our system, our entire business model around leveraging 404 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 3: that to bring those fans to us. How often do 405 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 3: you get, like an egga corporation building you a free 406 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 3: machine to bring you audience first. I'm going to take 407 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 3: advantage of that. Someday. It's entirely possible that any of 408 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 3: our shows become exclusive to Nebula, not really by design, 409 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 3: at least at the moment we have folks. Lindsay Ellis 410 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 3: is one hundred percent exclusive to Nebula, not really by 411 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 3: our request so much as hers. She sort of got 412 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 3: tired of the way she was in the public eye, 413 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 3: and she sort of wanted to approach her career differently, 414 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 3: and we were supportive of that. He absolutely kills on Watschteim. 415 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 3: Her fans love her too. But it wasn't because we're like, 416 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 3: we must collect all of the things and they must 417 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 3: all be hours. We're not like Thanos out there grabbing 418 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 3: all the Infinity stones. We're not here to catch them all. 419 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 3: I'm back to Pokemon. The goal rather is to build 420 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 3: a bridge. I want to occupy a much more a 421 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 3: twenty four style space where we work with the creators, 422 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 3: we help them make the We help them make the 423 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 3: things that they want to make, we help them develop 424 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 3: as creators. I'm in La right now on set with 425 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 3: Jesse Earl Jesse Gender, who's directing her first larger, larger 426 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 3: budget short film, sci fi production, narrative fiction. We've got 427 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 3: like panavision, camera and the actors you've heard of and 428 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 3: all of this. And the idea is that if we 429 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 3: provide Jesse with a structure that can help her become successful, 430 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 3: she can actually become a real filmmaker. She has the talent, 431 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 3: she has the skill, she has the ambition. It's for 432 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 3: most of our creators, those aren't the gap. For most 433 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 3: people on YouTube, those aren't the gap. It usually comes 434 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 3: down to connections, funding and experience. And so what we're 435 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 3: trying to do with Nebula is build a system that 436 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 3: can provide the connections the funding and the experience and 437 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 3: build a bridge so not everything has to be exclusive here. 438 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 3: I would love it if we could live in a 439 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 3: world where Jesse or other filmmakers we work with Patrick 440 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 3: Williams start making movies that go to a wide theatrical 441 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 3: release and there's some segment of the audience where the 442 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 3: only thing they know Nebula as is the you know, 443 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 3: the stinger that comes up before the movie starts, the 444 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 3: same way that you would see the A twenty four 445 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 3: logo or the sky Dance logo, Amble and Entertainment like 446 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 3: these kinds of things. I guess the closest analog for 447 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,239 Speaker 3: the division is something like if A twenty four had 448 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 3: their own streaming service, you can see everything everywhere, all 449 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 3: at once on any of the things. But if you 450 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 3: go to A twenty four saying you can see all 451 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 3: of their productions, That's kind of how we're thinking about it. 452 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: Okay, with that, I'm wondering if you can explain what 453 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: the difference is between original content that lives on Nebula 454 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: and a Nebula original. 455 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 3: Is there a difference? Well, make sure. 456 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: Underting you guys have a state of Nebula originals that 457 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: you've announced coming in the fall, So I wonder what 458 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: they are and why they're labeled that way, and what 459 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: that means. A Nebula versus a creator whose content exists 460 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 1: on Nebula if there are things commissioned by Nebula and 461 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: that are owned by Nebula versus content that does a 462 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: creator own it when it exists on there and is on. 463 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,959 Speaker 3: Nebula Ooh, there's a part of this question I'm really 464 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 3: excited to answer. I'll save that part. So there's the 465 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 3: it's a yeah, this isn't entirely intuitive and there's not 466 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 3: a great solution for this. But the best way to 467 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 3: think of this is if we are paying for it 468 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 3: in total or you know, in majority, and we are 469 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 3: providing our own production resources. We have an entire Nebula 470 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 3: Studios team, which is headed up by a former Marvel 471 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 3: Studios producer, that exists specifically to help creators make the 472 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 3: things that they want to make. So, like for Identities, 473 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 3: the Nebula original film that we're working on here in 474 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 3: La this week, we have an entire production team working 475 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 3: together to support Jesse in making this film that is 476 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 3: very clearly a Nebula original, writing, production, support, with providing funding, 477 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 3: and it'll live exclusively on Nebula for a creator who 478 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 3: they made a video and they also made like a 479 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 3: five minute companion piece that doesn't really fit on YouTube. 480 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 3: So they're going to make it like a Nebula exclusive 481 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 3: thing that's not really an original, not in not in 482 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 3: the way that you'd think prestige original. It's more of 483 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 3: like bonus content, like a DVD extra, So we kind 484 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 3: of break it down like that. If it's its own 485 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 3: thing and stands alone and you could imagine, you know, 486 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 3: sitting down and hitting play on just that and we 487 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 3: help to make it, then that's an original. If there's prestige, 488 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 3: that's an original. But if it's like a thing that 489 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 3: kind of needs the rest of the system to make 490 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 3: any sense, that's more of a plus kind of thing. 491 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 3: But the other part of your question, like who owns it, 492 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 3: Every single thing that the creators make that go on Nebula, 493 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 3: including every single one of our originals, are owned by 494 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,959 Speaker 3: the creators. We do not own the intellectual property. If 495 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 3: it's a Nebula original, we get an exclusive an exclusive 496 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 3: streaming license, but we don't own the IP. So if 497 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 3: in the case of the short film that we're working 498 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 3: on now, Identities, it could be treated as a pilot 499 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 3: episode of a show, and Jesse could take that pilot 500 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 3: to Netflix, to HBO, to whomever and sell the show. 501 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 3: They would have to buy their rights to the pilot 502 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 3: from us, the streaming rights to the pilot from us, 503 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 3: but Jesse could sell the entire show. We don't get 504 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 3: a penny. You can develop merchandising around it. We don't 505 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 3: get a penny. Ask George Lucas how valuable that can be. 506 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: So does that pose, you know, concerns to Nebula as 507 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: a company that you don't own the IP and could 508 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: a creator take their content off Nebula anytime they wanted to. 509 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 3: Concerns? No, No, I think that trust has to be 510 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 3: at the core of what we do. Like I don't 511 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 3: want to be in business with anybody who doesn't want 512 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 3: to be in business with me. I don't want people 513 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 3: locked into a relationship for a creator. They either they 514 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 3: believe in what we're doing and we're all on the 515 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 3: same team, or they don't. And it's helpful to note 516 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 3: that Nebula fifty perc of Nebula is owned by the creators. 517 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 3: If we were to ever sell it, we have to 518 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 3: contractually give fifty percent of that money to the creators. 519 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 3: Whenever there's there's profit, we have to give fifty percent 520 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 3: of that profit to the creators. This is a partnership. 521 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 3: So when we bring a new creator in, we're not 522 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 3: signing talent. We're bringing in a new business. It's part 523 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 3: of the reason why we're so slow and methodical and 524 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 3: how we grow our roster, like we're we're not signing 525 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 3: random deals to get content. We are. You know, these 526 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 3: are new roommates we're interviewing. These are longer term relationships. 527 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 3: So because of that, because of the nature of the relationships, 528 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 3: we don't see a lot of people leave. There's not 529 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 3: a ton of hard requirements for things people are have 530 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 3: to do. So for the folks who maybe don't have 531 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 3: the bandwidth or aren't seeing returns, then you know, they 532 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 3: can kind of just coast on it and keep uploading 533 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 3: to both places and still get some level of reward. Also, 534 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 3: we're the largest sponsor for all of our creators. We 535 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 3: literally every month, our largest line item is we pay 536 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 3: all of our creators to go tell our audience that 537 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 3: they're on Nebula. So there's not a ton of incentive 538 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 3: for anyone to walk away from that relationship. So we're 539 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 3: not really worried about it. I think we have to 540 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 3: lock people into anything. If the deal is good enough, 541 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 3: if the relationship is good enough, they'll stay. And hanging 542 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,719 Speaker 3: on to intellectual property licenses doesn't get us out of that, 543 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 3: it doesn't solve any problems. In fact, by not doing that, 544 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 3: it helps us at a tempo of like we're in 545 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 3: this together. We're helping you build things. Our mission is 546 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 3: not to own all of the things in the world. 547 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 3: Our mission is to help an extremely talented and ambitious 548 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 3: group of young creators. I say young not because they're twelve, 549 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 3: but because the industry is young, help them make the 550 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 3: things that they want to make because we know they can. 551 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 3: And if we're a hit maker, and if we are, 552 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 3: if we build our reputation on trust and our ability 553 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 3: to help achieve those goals, then that's where we're going 554 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 3: to win. Not because we have an infinitely deep content 555 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 3: catalog of things we own. We don't need to own everything. 556 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 3: It's better if we don't. 557 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 2: Thank you for joining me today, Bab. 558 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: In closing, is there anything else you want our audience 559 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: to know about Nebula? 560 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 3: There's this uphill battle we've been fighting for years to 561 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 3: get any kind of recognition outside of our bubble. And 562 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 3: we talked to going back to the thing with Sam 563 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 3: and doing Netflix stuff, or you developing shows for other 564 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 3: platforms and all of that. We've had similar conversations. We've 565 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 3: been approached by major Hollywood development companies like yeah, we 566 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 3: want to put your show, your creators on Netflix. We 567 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 3: do these things and we go through the exercise like Okay, 568 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 3: well how long would development take? What does the money 569 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 3: look like? And it ends up being like, okay, so 570 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 3: you want us to You want this creator to commit 571 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 3: two years of their life to developing a thing that 572 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 3: they sell for fifty thousand dollars and they maybe get 573 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 3: a roll on for another maybe one hundred two hundred k, 574 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 3: setting aside everything else they could be working on. You 575 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 3: want them to spend two years on this for a 576 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 3: show that you're going to cancel after one season because 577 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 3: it's Netflix two hundred and fifty k, right, Or we 578 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 3: could just stay on YouTube, reach hundreds of millions of 579 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 3: people and make millions of dollars a year. Why the 580 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 3: hell are we even talking to you? It just doesn't 581 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 3: make any sense. Hollywood treats us as a farm league. 582 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 3: They treat us like cheap talent. My number one goal 583 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 3: in starting doing like real pr work and getting our 584 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,959 Speaker 3: name out there in a different way was getting coverage 585 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 3: and Variety. 586 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of 587 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: Variety Strictly Business podcast. You can find new episodes weekly 588 00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts.