Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm your host Dirk Durham, and today I have a
Speaker 1: special guest, really good friend, Tom Schneider. Tom and I
Speaker 1: have kind of connected over social media over the last
Speaker 1: few years. If you guys have been living under a
Speaker 1: rock somewhere, you may not know who Tom Schneider is.
Speaker 1: So Tom runs the Stuck in the Rut YouTube channel
Speaker 1: and social media pages. Stuck in the Rut. They're based
Speaker 1: in Idaho. They have a trophy room that I would
Speaker 1: say would rival about anybody's I've ever seen. They have
Speaker 1: a very special family. They're a hunting family that has
Speaker 1: been super successful across all species of animals in Idaho,
Speaker 1: big game species, whether you're talking about white tails, mule deer,
Speaker 1: hell moose, and then Alaska as well. They have family
Speaker 1: members in Alaska that invite them up and then they've
Speaker 1: taken all sorts of beautiful animals in Alaska's harshest conditions
Speaker 1: and they've documented all this on YouTube videos. If you haven't,
Speaker 1: if you've never seen their YouTube channel, you got to
Speaker 1: check it out. Stuck in the Rut. I just want
Speaker 1: to say welcome Tom, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I think people watch your videos and see what you
Speaker 1: guys are doing, and they think, oh, man, all you
Speaker 1: guys do is hunt all the time. You must be rich.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we just have this unlimited money, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, but I'm here to say it. You know,
Speaker 1: his family, they're normal people with normal incomes. But what
Speaker 1: they do is they work a lot and bank money
Speaker 1: and bake time to go hunting. So to talk about
Speaker 1: you know what, what's what's work life look for?
Speaker 2: Well, you you've met my dad already.
Speaker 1: Yeah, your dad is one of the coolest guys I've
Speaker 1: ever met. I just love old guys like that because
Speaker 1: he doesn't seem old, but he's you know, his his
Speaker 1: years and that he's been on earth is he's been
Speaker 1: here a long time. But he's he's got a younger soul.
Speaker 1: And and then he's he's a character.
Speaker 2: Oh, he's just a workaholic. And you know we I
Speaker 2: think all of our family member, all the siblings, pretty
Speaker 2: much picked that work ethic up from him. I was
Speaker 2: telling you yesterday, not by choice, because that's just the
Speaker 2: family we grew up in. Not throwing any family members
Speaker 2: in a bus, but even my little we crack up
Speaker 2: and make fun of it a little bit. My little
Speaker 2: brother too, just at a young age, we just never
Speaker 2: were like, man, he's he's the laziest one in the family.
Speaker 2: He was never going to gain a work ethic. And man,
Speaker 2: Surevor will outwork anybody out there. You know. It's just
Speaker 2: really we just grew up in a really good family dynamic.
Speaker 2: My dad's a workaholic. My mom works hard too. She
Speaker 2: didn't start working until after you know, she was a
Speaker 2: stay at home mom and as soon as we grew
Speaker 2: up and got out of the house. Now she's working
Speaker 2: full time as well. And yeah, you know, I think
Speaker 2: dad just really got us into hunting at an early
Speaker 2: age two. Again, you're he's hunted. You've hunted a lot
Speaker 2: of the same hunting grounds he's hunted back in the eighties. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you know, and he got to see the Heyday
Speaker 2: and some of the stories I didn't know or bs
Speaker 2: or not where he's talking about, Oh I saw that
Speaker 2: four hundred inch bowl, And I'm like, okay, Dad, Yeah
Speaker 2: for him, But then you're show me that some of
Speaker 2: those same areas, like hey, that it can happen. The
Speaker 2: genetics are there. But unfortunately, as we as we consistently
Speaker 2: talk about why you're here in the first place, too,
Speaker 2: is that we're pursuing wolves because wolves have I don't
Speaker 2: want to I'm not trying to exaggerate when I say this,
Speaker 2: but they've ruined their lifestyle and and hunting and finding
Speaker 2: the animals that we used to see, and you know,
Speaker 2: I think those memories stay embedded in our minds of like, man,
Speaker 2: you know, like I remember the days when I'd climb
Speaker 2: up on this ridge and I'd have four bills bugling,
Speaker 2: and you have the habitat, you got the feed, and
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, it's just like it's gone.
Speaker 2: So I kind of got off topic there, but I
Speaker 2: just I see that, and that's kind of why we
Speaker 2: pursue wolves, and you know you're up here and that
Speaker 2: we kind of did a couple of days of that
Speaker 2: and at a blast. But yeah, going back to you know,
Speaker 2: our family dynamic. I've been really fortunate to live in
Speaker 2: a family where we get along for one, where we fight,
Speaker 2: We have our moments where we fight. Me working together,
Speaker 2: I still bounce between Travis and Dad. So Travis has
Speaker 2: a construction business. He builds houses for a living. My
Speaker 2: dad works in the woods between logging, between clearing land
Speaker 2: for other property owners. So I guess it's tough to
Speaker 2: really give myself a title. Like if you were to
Speaker 2: ask me, Tom, what do you do for work? I've
Speaker 2: really had a hard time i give myself a title
Speaker 2: for that, Like I'm a contractor, i am a fort
Speaker 2: I'm in forest management. It just really depends. Like some years,
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm done building. This year, I want to
Speaker 2: switch back to doing some forest management. And I think
Speaker 2: at the end goal is though, is to make enough
Speaker 2: money so that we can hunt in the fall. And
Speaker 2: that's my drive. Like I couldn't just for me, I
Speaker 2: can't just I mean, I consider myself like a very
Speaker 2: hard worker. But if I didn't have those passions and
Speaker 2: hobbies to keep me going, I probably would just straight
Speaker 2: up pick up a nine to five and just say,
Speaker 2: you know what, screwed. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: zombie it for the rest of my life. Get a
Speaker 2: nine to five, you know, just to put food on
Speaker 2: the table. But no, I have passions. I have well
Speaker 2: I don't know if you call it a passion or
Speaker 2: an obsession. I love to hunt. I'm just passionate about it.
Speaker 2: And with the work that we do. It allows us
Speaker 2: to take off time in the fall to hunt, and
Speaker 2: then by the end of the fall that money gets
Speaker 2: Well I was telling you about that, Mike, like towards
Speaker 2: the very very end of the fall and you have
Speaker 2: all these taxony bills. I'm like, ah, that is a
Speaker 2: nice bowl, but I don't at this point, I'm strapped
Speaker 2: on money. So about time December kicks in, I'm back
Speaker 2: to have, you know, to make it up for lost
Speaker 2: time and so but again, it's worth it, It's all
Speaker 2: worth it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. Well you kind of said you got
Speaker 1: we went sideways or got off track a little bit
Speaker 1: about when we talk about wolves. But I think that
Speaker 1: kind of segues in nice to what we're really going
Speaker 1: to talk about today. And I wanted to pick your
Speaker 1: brain on rifle hunting. You know, in Idaho, a lot
Speaker 1: of the units it's in October ends about the first
Speaker 1: part of November, and some years you may be lucky
Speaker 1: enough to find a bullet bugles that first few days
Speaker 1: of October season.
Speaker 2: Or not.
Speaker 1: And sometimes, especially with being Idaho is so forested, it's
Speaker 1: really hard to find final if they're not being vocal
Speaker 1: during rifle season, if if there's not. If they're not
Speaker 1: an opening somewhere, then you have the big timber to
Speaker 1: try to locate them in. And I just kind of
Speaker 1: want to figure out what your process was. And I
Speaker 1: know we've talked a lot this week about it, just
Speaker 1: as you showed me the beautiful country here, but kind
Speaker 1: of wonder listeners to kind of get a peek on
Speaker 1: how you find elk in October, whether you know, maybe
Speaker 1: do some calling and stuff, and then how it kind
Speaker 1: of transpires from from there.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I can I switch this off to a
Speaker 2: question to you. Yeah, so you you spent two full
Speaker 2: two or three I'm trying to think now the days
Speaker 2: are starting to blur.
Speaker 1: I think I've been here three days, three full.
Speaker 2: Days, that's right. So yeah, evening and stuff. So we've
Speaker 2: you've walked around with me quite a bit. You've seen
Speaker 2: what the terrain's like. What would you say your average
Speaker 2: shooting lane is, like? How far of your shots do
Speaker 2: you have?
Speaker 1: I feel like if if I were elk hunting and
Speaker 1: would having an encounter, most of them would be up close,
Speaker 1: very close, within fifty yards or less most of the time,
Speaker 1: or super long distance like you know, six seven, eight hundred.
Speaker 2: Yards so that head into that base, and you and
Speaker 2: I were at yesterday we actually had some long rune
Speaker 2: shooting opportunities.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny because it's it's never anything really in
Speaker 2: the middle though, it's he it's brush as all get out,
Speaker 2: or be here above tree line, and you got some
Speaker 2: shooting lanes and so yeah, I think it really starts
Speaker 2: with especially with elk hunting. I think what really helped
Speaker 2: us out was was watching elk throughout the entire year.
Speaker 2: You've talked right from the beginning, you've talked about the
Speaker 2: type of wildlife we have, right, I say, I I've
Speaker 2: lived in a very very fortunate where I live in
Speaker 2: the fact that we have a lot of different species
Speaker 2: of animals. You know, some areas you hunt, it's just
Speaker 2: it's an elk area. Some areas you hunt it's a
Speaker 2: meal deer area. You know, this could be Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado. Right,
Speaker 2: some areas it's just a moose area. We live in
Speaker 2: one of these very interesting ecosystems where we have meal deer.
Speaker 2: If you're at a certain elevation, you're a meal deer.
Speaker 2: You're at a certain elevation, you're in white tails, good
Speaker 2: white tails, elk wolf, unfortunately black bear. We have grizzlies.
Speaker 2: We were we were falling grizzly.
Speaker 1: Track, arizzly grizzly track first day and Tom, look at this,
Speaker 1: there's a big old bear track.
Speaker 2: Ready to run. A part of the call for wolves.
Speaker 2: So mountain goats if you're if you just drive probably
Speaker 2: about thirty minutes thirty minutes east of us, you're in
Speaker 2: bighorn sheet. So we have a lot of animals, and
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a lot that I've missed that I've
Speaker 2: oh yeah, then going to the Predator's mountain line, bobcat,
Speaker 2: we do have a couple of links. I mean, again,
Speaker 2: the list goes on. We have a variety of wildlife here.
Speaker 2: And so now going back to the type of terrain
Speaker 2: we're hunting, you know, it can be really challenging to
Speaker 2: hunt this heavy timber country. But growing up and watching
Speaker 2: the dynamic and all these animals and their behavior was
Speaker 2: really helpful for us. Originally from the beginning, I felt
Speaker 2: like there was a lot of elk. You and I've
Speaker 2: talked about this where I felt like there was a
Speaker 2: time where if you're just a hard hunter, you didn't
Speaker 2: even have to know elk. If you're just a hard hunter,
Speaker 2: you're going to come home with a good elk. But
Speaker 2: now with the lack of elk that we have and
Speaker 2: you don't have elk bugling like in the September season,
Speaker 2: it could be really challenging and pulling an elk with
Speaker 2: a rifle because the elk are so few and far between.
Speaker 2: And the one thing that surprises me with a lot
Speaker 2: of people is people are always asking where do you
Speaker 2: hunt where? Or they see they see where my pickups
Speaker 2: parked and they're like, oh, I know where you killed
Speaker 2: that bowl, so now I know where to go to.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, have fun. But if you don't know elk,
Speaker 2: you're not going to know how to find them because
Speaker 2: these pockets of elk, I mean, you've got thousands of
Speaker 2: thousands of acres and you're trying to find one little
Speaker 2: pocket of bulls like about your group of bowls in
Speaker 2: the post rat season. And so you have to be
Speaker 2: able to understand the behavior of elk and why they
Speaker 2: do what they do. It's not where like, oh where
Speaker 2: do I hunt? Where do I hunt? The question is
Speaker 2: is why would I hunt there? If there's elk here?
Speaker 2: You got to ask why You got to understand why
Speaker 2: do elk do what they do. That's really what it
Speaker 2: comes down to, right, Like, if you follow people, you're
Speaker 2: going to get people. You want to follow me in
Speaker 2: the woods, you're going to get me. If you stop
Speaker 2: following me, stop following other people, don't you want to
Speaker 2: find elk and get away from people exactly. And so
Speaker 2: that's what you really need to do, right is to
Speaker 2: focus on elk, learn about their habits and their behaviors,
Speaker 2: and presume from there. And I will be honest and
Speaker 2: saying that I prefer the archery season just the fact
Speaker 2: that they're bugling. But sometimes as soon as the bugling
Speaker 2: stops in October, everybody hangs up the bow and they're like,
Speaker 2: I'm done for the year because I can't.
Speaker 1: Kill a post rut bowl.
Speaker 2: They don't realize that there is some really good opportunity
Speaker 2: in killing a big bowl in the post rut season. Now,
Speaker 2: Idaho has a lot of opportunity kill them in October.
Speaker 2: There's places in Montana where the season's actually extended to November,
Speaker 2: I mean, and then there's places like that in Idaho
Speaker 2: too as well, and a lot of states too. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of post rah opportunity with the rifle. But
Speaker 2: the elk aren't talking. Sometimes talked about sometimes you get
Speaker 2: a little a late rut and that's a game changer. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so and then I know I'm just rattling on right now,
Speaker 2: but it's just finding out whether they doing and why
Speaker 2: are they're doing it. Weather can be an issue with that.
Speaker 2: You have to think of an animal. We talked to
Speaker 2: you and I both talked to before too. With every
Speaker 2: species of animal, you have to find their groceries, you
Speaker 2: have to find their shelter and safety. And those are
Speaker 2: the three things that I mean just to lay down
Speaker 2: a foundation for an elk hunter, mule deer hunter, wilf hunter, anything. Grocery,
Speaker 2: shelter and safety is what is why an animal does
Speaker 2: what they do and elk that that definition is different
Speaker 2: than a meal deer, and elk's safety is different than
Speaker 2: a meal deer, right, a meal deer, especially in an
Speaker 2: area possibly you know, with long range shooting, I know,
Speaker 2: I know a simelies don't hit the openings as much
Speaker 2: as they used to. However, genetically they're designed to be
Speaker 2: out an open country. That's they're they're able. You know,
Speaker 2: at their long ears, they're able to pick up sound.
Speaker 2: They're able to spot you along the ways away. When
Speaker 2: I hunt Co Colorado bucks can spot me six seven
Speaker 2: hundred yards away and move out of canyon. You know,
Speaker 2: they're really good. They have really good ice height. An
Speaker 2: elk's definition of safety is much different, and so so
Speaker 2: you have to learn about that. You have to focus
Speaker 2: on that in itself.
Speaker 1: So let's say it's opening day, Yeah, and you're out
Speaker 1: there and you hear a bowl bugle. Oh, and I
Speaker 1: hear a lot of folks tell me this story every year, Like, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I had a bowl bugling, and you know, I just
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of got to a vantage point
Speaker 1: and just kind of watched, and you know, and I
Speaker 1: didn't really see the elk materialize, and you know, I
Speaker 1: just they kind of slipped away from me, and darn it,
Speaker 1: I didn't get an oak. What would you do if
Speaker 1: you hear a bowl bugle in October?
Speaker 2: Great question, And I'm not going to answer this question directly,
Speaker 2: but I'll say this that there's two different types of hunters.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: There's those that are like really aggressive hunters. Those are regressive,
Speaker 2: they just go and kill. There's the other hunters that
Speaker 2: are too afraid to move in right, They're like, well,
Speaker 2: if I move on, I'm gonna bump them, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: scare them off. I try to find that balance. There's
Speaker 2: a time, there's a window. You find this window of
Speaker 2: opportunity and one and Travis is better. I mean, I
Speaker 2: actually felt like I gained this technique for my brother
Speaker 2: because my brother is he charges. He's like charge, you know.
Speaker 2: I just imagine those war movies were like charge, you know,
Speaker 2: and you got the guy with the horn, you know, Trav,
Speaker 2: but charge out a bugle bowl. Yeah, And I learned
Speaker 2: that from him. And if you have a bowl beegling,
Speaker 2: and let's say you're in that timber like we were
Speaker 2: talking about where you got those fifty yard shooting lanes,
Speaker 2: then absolutely I would just go in there and charge.
Speaker 2: Don't bugle, don't give out your location. You have a
Speaker 2: rifle in your hand. It's different with the bow because
Speaker 2: you have a lot of obstacles, right, you have to
Speaker 2: get an archy range, you have to get him pass brush.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that you know, so you're
Speaker 2: going to try to call on that out. Don't try
Speaker 2: to call on a bowl when you got a rifle
Speaker 2: in your hand. This is just me. This is my technique. Right,
Speaker 2: they're bugle and they're occupied. Just move in on them
Speaker 2: and then just get a shot, get in it, getting close.
Speaker 2: When you you start hitting that bubble and getting really close,
Speaker 2: start slowing down, moving, you know, pull out your binos,
Speaker 2: although sometimes you don't feel like in heavy timber country
Speaker 2: you don't need binos. You do, you pick apart the timber.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you just expect to see a full boone olk.
Speaker 2: You're not going to expect to see that. You're looking
Speaker 2: for an ear, You're looking for an eyeball. You're looking
Speaker 2: for a rack. One of the biggest bulls. My brother
Speaker 2: one of the biggest bulls, not the biggest bulll My
Speaker 2: brother's killed the bull that he when he shot it,
Speaker 2: all he saw was like an He knew it was
Speaker 2: a big bull. But when he snuck up to it,
Speaker 2: he saw an eyeball, and he saw like a part
Speaker 2: of the rack where he only saw like two of
Speaker 2: the front kickers. So he knew was a bull, but
Speaker 2: he was unable to see in the entire rack. But
Speaker 2: he was able to identify this is a bull, elk.
Speaker 2: This is the herd bull, you know. And so that's
Speaker 2: what you're looking for, right, But again it's finding that
Speaker 2: window of opportunity to just charge in there and kill.
Speaker 2: We've talked about where people don't know how to find
Speaker 2: that balance. There's those who just they always charge in
Speaker 2: on everything, where they're just like charge, charge, charge, and
Speaker 2: they push the animals out of the canyon.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: But I will say this that versus that those type
Speaker 2: of people that do more charging versus the people that
Speaker 2: are too afraid to move in, the guys that typically
Speaker 2: charge in and just move into the canyon try to
Speaker 2: get it done, those guys kill more they do. I
Speaker 2: feel like one thing that we have I don't want
Speaker 2: to say we've perfected, but we've perfected more than others
Speaker 2: is the balance of that where we know when to
Speaker 2: charge him and we know when than not to. But
Speaker 2: if I have a bowl bugling and I have a
Speaker 2: rifle in my hand, that is the perfect scenario. And
Speaker 2: that doesn't happen every year. Sometimes they're not doing that
Speaker 2: and you're timber pounding, or you're trying to catch them
Speaker 2: in their feeding or betting areas, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But if I had a bowl bugling, I'd say, depending
Speaker 2: on the scenario, eighty percent of the time, I would
Speaker 2: just move right in and them being quiet. If I'm
Speaker 2: breaking a lot of branches, I have a cow, weal
Speaker 2: cry to my mouth. Elk are loud animals. If any
Speaker 2: of you have hunted elk in the woods, if you have,
Speaker 2: even it could be a calend a calf, and it
Speaker 2: sounds like a herd of elephants walking through the brush.
Speaker 2: When you're walking in the brush, don't always think, oh shoot,
Speaker 2: I mess up the hunt, like you're just another elk.
Speaker 2: Bet out a couple of cow calls, and just keep
Speaker 2: moving in. If you feel like you're out a point
Speaker 2: to where they can hear you, you're not trying to again,
Speaker 2: You're not trying to call them in. You're just trying
Speaker 2: to cover up your sound right and getting in close
Speaker 2: and getting a shot on this bowl.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna boil that down a little bit. So
Speaker 1: we hear this bowl bugling and I'm a few hundred
Speaker 1: yards away, maybe across the big draw or whatever. So
Speaker 1: immediately I'm like try to pinpoint where I hear the
Speaker 1: sound come from, and then I'm gonna immediately go to
Speaker 1: that bugle get and make sure I keep the wind
Speaker 1: right and for the eighty to ninety percent of the
Speaker 1: trip to that bull. I'm not gonna worry about being quiet.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna get there. I'm gonna move quickly. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna snap some trip some some limbs and stuff. But
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna I'm trying to cover the distance I
Speaker 1: want to get over to there before that bowl leaves
Speaker 1: the area. And then as I approach the area where
Speaker 1: I think I'm getting very close, now I'm gonna slow
Speaker 1: down a little bit and be a little more mindful
Speaker 1: of my noise and then start working my way in.
Speaker 1: But I'm not I'm not Elmer Fudd hunting. Like, I'm
Speaker 1: not like taking one step, stopping for ten minutes and
Speaker 1: then taking another step, kind of like still hunting. I'm
Speaker 1: moving a little faster than that. I'm like, I'm moving slower,
Speaker 1: more deliberate. I got my head on a swivel. I'm
Speaker 1: using my optics to glass ahead to make sure I
Speaker 1: don't get caught.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when you the Elmer Thud hunting does happen
Speaker 2: right when you get in that bubble. Right you're in
Speaker 2: that bubble, you can hear the sticks popping around you.
Speaker 2: You can smell them sometimes just melling them is enough,
Speaker 2: Like you can sometimes smell before then you slow the
Speaker 2: heck down, okay, and then and you're really the binos
Speaker 2: are in your eyes and you're trying to just scan
Speaker 2: the brush, like I said. Sometimes, like I know a
Speaker 2: lot of guys that hunt heavy timbered country that just don't.
Speaker 2: They don't pack binos. They don't. There's like, why do
Speaker 2: I need them? I got my scope, you know, Honestly,
Speaker 2: I like binos just because I got two eyes and
Speaker 2: I could Sometimes it's great to use the scope to scan.
Speaker 2: But a pair of binos, I got two eyes in them,
Speaker 2: I can see a big I can see a lot more. Right,
Speaker 2: So I'm looking for anything out of the ordinary. Sometimes
Speaker 2: it will be tough in September because the brush is
Speaker 2: turning yellow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the same color of an elk.
Speaker 2: The same color of an elk. So, like I said,
Speaker 2: so sometimes you're not even looking for the yellow body.
Speaker 2: You're looking for an eyeball. You're looking for something out
Speaker 2: of the ordinary.
Speaker 1: A nose, a nose, that shiny nose, or a flick
Speaker 1: of an ear.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I've what I've seen was steam. So I've had that.
Speaker 2: Where I'm walking, I smell elk I'm like, I feel
Speaker 2: like I'm getting close, and all of a sudden, I
Speaker 2: see steam, Like what's And I look with my binos
Speaker 2: and it's steam coming out of the nostrils. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I could see that because it's early morning, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: that's at I'm looking at milk nose right now. Then
Speaker 2: you're like, there's an eyeball. They'll get the pedestal. Oh
Speaker 2: there's it has antlers. You see part of a beam.
Speaker 2: And It's the toughest thing about this type of hunting
Speaker 2: is it's really tough to identify how big a bowl is. Now,
Speaker 2: I've already identified that it's a shoot like you know
Speaker 2: most states, it's like well Montana, it's brow tyn, it's
Speaker 2: brow tiner bigger. So if I can identify that it
Speaker 2: has browtyns in it's illegal bowl, I can shoot it. Right.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's It could be a rag bull,
Speaker 2: it could be a three year old, it could be
Speaker 2: a big mature monster bowl. That's just something you have
Speaker 2: to make the choice of. And I've had multiple times
Speaker 2: where I get where I would see a bowl that
Speaker 2: has big fronts, I'm like, oh, that's a shooter bowl.
Speaker 2: I'd chew and I'm like, oh, well it's a bowl,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm happy with it, but I could have
Speaker 2: swore it was bigger. Right, You know, you take those
Speaker 2: quick shots because by that time, you know you expect it, oh,
Speaker 2: wait for it to turn its head. By tims turn
Speaker 2: its head. It's on the run. Yeah, and so then
Speaker 2: you you just have to make a quick shot on that.
Speaker 2: But I would rather shoot it while it's standing still.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like we were talking about delmer thud thing
Speaker 2: it's using. You know, it's you don't want to waste
Speaker 2: your time in that long distance. Like, yeah, let's say
Speaker 2: you heard that bowl beagle in three or four hundred
Speaker 2: yards away, You're gonna waste her a lot of time
Speaker 2: taking a couple of steps looking around right, charge in there,
Speaker 2: getting close, then stop and start really slowing down on
Speaker 2: your walking again. Sticks popping is not going to lun
Speaker 2: them that much, right, Like they're they're ilk, they're loud animals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you give an occasional cow call, we're
Speaker 1: not saying blow your caw call the whole way there,
Speaker 1: You're not just like if you make a loud stick break,
Speaker 1: maybe one cow call, maybe two the worst ones.
Speaker 2: The worst thing to do is to giveaway or the cation, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: so you I mean, but at the same time, you
Speaker 2: don't want to alarm them either. So yeah, like I said,
Speaker 2: you want to cover your sound up. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, if you cow call all the way in,
Speaker 2: what you end up doing is you have a bunch
Speaker 2: of eyes waiting for you to come in, right exactly.
Speaker 1: They hear you coming like, yeah, you're hey, who's this
Speaker 1: out coming? This?
Speaker 2: They're making a scene. Yeah, And so you don't want
Speaker 2: to make a scene.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to be out.
Speaker 2: You're just like you just want to be part of
Speaker 2: the hurt getting close. And then when you're really close
Speaker 2: to that, you do a couple of cow calls. You
Speaker 2: already got cows all over the woods, right, and that
Speaker 2: herd bowl, especially in the timber. He can't see all
Speaker 2: his cows, So to him, he doesn't know any different.
Speaker 1: He don't He don't have a number either. He has
Speaker 1: doesn't say, well, I have six cows and I see
Speaker 1: six right here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he has an idea, is like I think they're
Speaker 2: out here, yeah, exactlymore. Now, the other thing we were
Speaker 2: talking about though, too, is like let's say this is
Speaker 2: the only time it'd be different. Well, let's say that
Speaker 2: scenario is we hear a bowl beagling has crossed the canyon,
Speaker 2: but there's a clear cut nearby, and I sound it
Speaker 2: almost sounds like he's going to come out of that cut.
Speaker 2: I might just sit there and wait, or above tree line.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm above tree line and I'm seeing the little
Speaker 2: patches where i can shoot from. I feel very comfortable
Speaker 2: shooting long range. In fact, sometimes I feel like my
Speaker 2: shots are better at long range because you have the
Speaker 2: time to make a proper shot. Those close strange shots
Speaker 2: can sometimes be rushed and sometimes takes more than one bullet.
Speaker 2: I'm going to just kind of responding to haters that
Speaker 2: have never hunted Timmer country. Some people are like, oh,
Speaker 2: you should only shoot an animal with one bullet. I
Speaker 2: think that's actually in the opposite like and somewhat disrespectful,
Speaker 2: because no matter how good of a shot you think
Speaker 2: you are, you wound. You may wound a bowl elk.
Speaker 2: How many guys do you know have shot an elk
Speaker 2: and they had a second chance on shooting it, but're like, no,
Speaker 2: that first shot was good, and they track a bloodshel
Speaker 2: for miles they had a chance to put that bowl down.
Speaker 2: They had a second opportunity, and they didn't take it.
Speaker 2: For me, it's like some people are like, oh, we
Speaker 2: don't want to waste meat. It's like I've put, you know,
Speaker 2: in some scenarios, I've put fortified bullets in a bowl
Speaker 2: elk and I've wasted probably a quarter pound of meat.
Speaker 2: If you're shooting lungs, there's not meat, there's not much there. Right,
Speaker 2: You're fine, just put you want to anchor them down
Speaker 2: and it could be all lung shots, right, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. Right, but you want to make sure
Speaker 2: you anchor that bowl down.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've always said, you know, if the bowl is
Speaker 1: still standing or moving, keep shooting, Yeah, till they fall,
Speaker 1: and then as you approach, be ready to shoot again.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on something real quick for you.
Speaker 1: Talked about using your binoculars to scan instead of your scope,
Speaker 1: and I think that's really smart and it's really safe,
Speaker 1: especially if if you're not familiar with how the difference
Speaker 1: between a real elk bugle and maybe a hunter's bugle.
Speaker 1: So it's super important to make sure you're being safe
Speaker 1: by using yourars. I've had people scope me before I'll.
Speaker 2: Be it's the scariest thing.
Speaker 1: It's a scarce thing. I'll look up and I see
Speaker 1: a dude up on the ridge and he's pointing his
Speaker 1: rifle at me, and I immediately hit the dirt. I mean,
Speaker 1: you scare the crap out of people when you do that.
Speaker 1: But I knows. I mean, you can buy binoculars for
Speaker 1: them a hundred bucks to two thousand dollars, right, there's
Speaker 1: a binocular for everyone, everyone's price range, get them, use them,
Speaker 1: be safe, don't scare the crap out of people, or
Speaker 1: maybe even take a shot and shoot a person. You know,
Speaker 1: be aware of what you're shooting.
Speaker 2: You have to know your target. Another thing that bothers
Speaker 2: me to know when is when people's like and it's
Speaker 2: a lot with wolves more than anything is people are
Speaker 2: a little bit more trigger happy with wolves. Right, So
Speaker 2: you hear wolves, how and you see the brush moving,
Speaker 2: people want to just pull the trigger.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I've had guys say I just blaze the brush just
Speaker 2: started shooting. Now I'm just like, well are you doing?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like, what if that was me trying to hold on
Speaker 2: in a wolf pack?
Speaker 1: Like that?
Speaker 2: Is stupid? Always know your target, but it doesn't take,
Speaker 2: like I said, with ELK, doesn't take much. It could
Speaker 2: be heavy timber, but you can already identify. You see
Speaker 2: an eyeball, you see a nose, you see the you
Speaker 2: see the rack. It's you may not see the entire
Speaker 2: ELK image, but you've already identified what you're shooting at.
Speaker 2: You already identify. Like I said, if it's Montana and
Speaker 2: it's brow tyne only, don't just shoot a big yellow body.
Speaker 2: You have to identify, Okay, I see brow tines on
Speaker 2: the bowl. At least. I don't know if it's a
Speaker 2: fie point. I don't know if it's a ten point,
Speaker 2: I don't know it's if it has kickers like a
Speaker 2: big red stack. I don't know what that is. But
Speaker 2: I've at least identified that it's the legal ELK and
Speaker 2: I could shoot it. There's no reason you should be
Speaker 2: shooting at things you can't see and then going back
Speaker 2: to the long range, I feel a lot more than
Speaker 2: this is Again, this is so controversial, and I don't
Speaker 2: know why I feel more comfortable taking a long range
Speaker 2: shot at six hundred yards than taking a close up shot.
Speaker 2: I feel like my shots are a lot more. There
Speaker 2: are a lot more thought through. I'm a lot more stable.
Speaker 2: I have time to calm my heart down. I can
Speaker 2: make a very very good shot at six hundred yards.
Speaker 2: My odds and killing a bull at six hundred yards
Speaker 2: comfortably with one shot are much higher than a close
Speaker 2: up shot. But you just can't help it when you're
Speaker 2: in tavy timber country, right, You like you have to
Speaker 2: take those shots. Some guys are better at others and
Speaker 2: taking those quick rush shots. I give credit to my
Speaker 2: big brother Travis. He can I've told you some of
Speaker 2: his shots that I've watched. I'm just like, wow, that
Speaker 2: was pretty impressive. But you know we've I think we've
Speaker 2: all had misses too, right, right, you kill you hunt
Speaker 2: enough animals, eventually a miss happens. Sure, But hunting timber
Speaker 2: country is a challenging himself. But people are really intimidated
Speaker 2: by it and avoid it. And but if you learn
Speaker 2: how to do it, you can you can get away
Speaker 2: from a lot of people. In fact, there's still areas
Speaker 2: I hunt to this day where I'm the only boot
Speaker 2: tracks in the mountain and this is public land. Do
Speaker 2: your cell ones?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Right?
Speaker 2: And just people are intimidated by even the grizzly bears. Right,
Speaker 2: how many people that I know are like, I'm not
Speaker 2: hunting that there's grizzly bears in there, especially if you're
Speaker 2: hunting that those areas where you have all this close
Speaker 2: range shot. Everybody's afraid of bump in a grizzly. Just
Speaker 2: get good life insurance, you know, for your life.
Speaker 1: Set your family up so they won't struggle with.
Speaker 2: Exactly because we're all going to die someday. I don't
Speaker 2: you know, there's no reason that we're Like I used
Speaker 2: to really worry about hunting Grizzly country, you know, you
Speaker 2: were you were kind of talking about like are you
Speaker 2: kind of worried about para con. I'm like, huh, I
Speaker 2: got good life in Turails.
Speaker 1: It'll be fine.
Speaker 2: He'll be okay. But I've yet to I mean, our
Speaker 2: knock on wood. I'm the only family member that well,
Speaker 2: me and my mom both, I guess. But my mom
Speaker 2: doesn't spend a lot of time hunting. But I myself,
Speaker 2: I am the only familymembo that hasn't been charged by
Speaker 2: grizzly So I hope to keep that record.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a game of odds.
Speaker 2: That's a game of odds.
Speaker 1: I think as many times you're out there, it's eventually
Speaker 1: gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I will say this. The first time Travis ever
Speaker 2: got charged by a grizzly, it was an inland grizzy
Speaker 2: in Alaska. He came home and he took every single
Speaker 2: sling off our guns. You probably notice that I don't
Speaker 2: have a single sling on a gun. Yeah, Trev took
Speaker 2: all those things off the guns. He said, you don't
Speaker 2: want to. He's like, if I had a sling on
Speaker 2: my gun and goes on my shoulder, I'd be dead.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So you did that to every single gun.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: But you know, sometimes when I can try to hike
Speaker 2: to the meal your elevation, my gun is my pack.
Speaker 2: But you want to be packing heat somewhere. If it's
Speaker 2: a little pistol or something, you got to have protection.
Speaker 2: Right in Canada, unfortunately they don't allow pistols, so everybody
Speaker 2: has to pack pepper spray. It's not my recommendation. If
Speaker 2: you got a pistol, it's nice, but it's something right.
Speaker 2: Pepper spray is another thing. But again, I know sometimes
Speaker 2: I get off tangent. But with the going back to
Speaker 2: long range shooting, I do prefer it if I have
Speaker 2: a chance and if I see it, if I see
Speaker 2: the scenario, I'm like, hey, I think I can get
Speaker 2: this bull out in and opening, I'm gonna shoot. But
Speaker 2: if not, I'm just going to charge right in right
Speaker 2: vel Awesome.
Speaker 1: I love that. Now I'm going to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit more about this long range shooting. To do this
Speaker 1: accurately and to do it consistently, and to do it ethically.
Speaker 1: You're not just taking your rifle with just your normal
Speaker 1: everyday rifle and be like, well, I think he's about
Speaker 1: six hundred yard. Yeah, I got my range for six
Speaker 1: hundred yards. I'm gonna aim three feet over he's back,
Speaker 1: because you know, I kind of looked at the ballistic
Speaker 1: chart one time, and I think that should drop that
Speaker 1: bullet right into where I need to aim. You're not
Speaker 1: doing that, Like, how how does one like make those
Speaker 1: ethical and accurate long range shots?
Speaker 2: It really and I'm not trying to because the one
Speaker 2: thing my dad always says, you can't buy yourself an ELK,
Speaker 2: but to an extent, you've got to have the proper
Speaker 2: equipment right right, you got to pay for it. You're
Speaker 2: not going to cheap out on a long range gun,
Speaker 2: right you've got to have to have a really good
Speaker 2: long range rifle. For us, we've originally started with gun Works,
Speaker 2: and gun Works has taught us a lot about long
Speaker 2: range shooting. You know, before Travis started off with these
Speaker 2: charts where he'd print off the ballistics and he'd have
Speaker 2: the radicals inside the scope, which are just if anyone
Speaker 2: doesn't know what a radical is, it's the hash marks
Speaker 2: inside the scope. Lot people don't know what that's for
Speaker 2: those are trying to explain this the best way possible,
Speaker 2: maybe you can even explain it better. The hash marks
Speaker 2: in the scope. It really depends, but most of those
Speaker 2: are measured in MA, which is minutes of angle. And
Speaker 2: what minutes of angle is it's a minute, and it
Speaker 2: depends how much you doe. So like let's say i
Speaker 2: dial my scope into where it's zeroed. I'm hitting the
Speaker 2: bullseye at one hundred yards. One hundred yards one one
Speaker 2: hash mark should be one minute, and then beyond that
Speaker 2: the range it's different, correct, and so you have to
Speaker 2: it's a little bit of a learning curve. But after
Speaker 2: you learn these things, then you know, okay, with this
Speaker 2: animal is at six hundred yards, I need to be
Speaker 2: shooting for this, but there's a lot of obstacles and
Speaker 2: now you know before back in the day when you
Speaker 2: need those charts, there was a lot of mistakes that
Speaker 2: would happen, for example the barometric pressure, which is another
Speaker 2: thing I can get into, like for example, the temperature.
Speaker 2: You know, there was a white This is when like
Speaker 2: it's good with anything, like people getting the archy. Hunting
Speaker 2: mistakes happen right there was a white tail buck. This
Speaker 2: was the first year Travis was ever hunting. It was
Speaker 2: negative thirteen degrees. Travis had this gun dialed in when
Speaker 2: it was like probably forty degrees in October. So now
Speaker 2: he has a buck it's negative thirteen. He's made the
Speaker 2: shot multiple times. Monster whitetail about twenty five inches wide.
Speaker 2: He shot right over its back. He didn't know why
Speaker 2: at the time. That the temperature change is also has
Speaker 2: a lot to do with it too. Gunworks has created
Speaker 2: a system inside the rangefinder that does all the calculations
Speaker 2: for you. Where really it I don't want to say
Speaker 2: I'm a dummy, but it it takes a lot of
Speaker 2: the homework out of out of your shooting practices. You
Speaker 2: don't have to be a mathematician, you don't figure it out. Yeah,
Speaker 2: let the range finder and the equipment do that for you.
Speaker 2: I can put my mom on a on a rifle
Speaker 2: and she can drop a white She did this, like
Speaker 2: there's a nice white tail buck. And I had her
Speaker 2: sit on the gun and she dropped it six hundred
Speaker 2: yards And it was really the equipment. If I would
Speaker 2: have given her a fixed scope that I picked up
Speaker 2: the gun's story. Now, well, your range is pretty much
Speaker 2: two hundred yards if that you know. So it really
Speaker 2: does have to do with your equipment and what you're shooting.
Speaker 2: And every time I start thinking that I know what
Speaker 2: I'm doing with long range, I sit down with some
Speaker 2: of the guys that run the gunworks operation and they
Speaker 2: start talking about all the variables that could happen in
Speaker 2: a shot. It's over my head, right it is. But
Speaker 2: I'll say this that at long range shooting, usually if
Speaker 2: I range the animal and I shoot, I'll never it
Speaker 2: should never be above or below the animal the shot.
Speaker 2: Usually the real obstacle is the wind.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: The wind is really what makes it so tough to
Speaker 2: make those shots At six hundred yards. The wind doesn't
Speaker 2: do a whole lot, but when you start getting farther
Speaker 2: and farther out there, then the wind has a lot
Speaker 2: to do with your shots. So anyone that's getting a
Speaker 2: long range or is his first time shooter, always be
Speaker 2: aware of the wind. That's the biggest, biggest thing that's
Speaker 2: going to mess you up on long range. If you have,
Speaker 2: like I said, the same system like we have, or
Speaker 2: you got a built in radical, or you have the
Speaker 2: turrets on top where you dial it the rangefinder, you
Speaker 2: plug in the system pretty much the profile of your
Speaker 2: gun in there. So you know. So gunworks they had
Speaker 2: a they a had the BR four monocular that they had,
Speaker 2: but now they just created a binocular the Revic binos,
Speaker 2: and now you can plug in the system in there too,
Speaker 2: which is really nice. So now rather than carrying a
Speaker 2: monocular and a pair of binos, now I just have
Speaker 2: a pair of binos that does all the homework for me.
Speaker 2: So now I got my binos that I can timber
Speaker 2: pound with and pick apart the terrain. Or if I
Speaker 2: have a long range shot, I ranged the binoculars that
Speaker 2: tells me exactly what the dial from my MA and
Speaker 2: you just dial and shoot. But you also have to
Speaker 2: be aware of your wind.
Speaker 1: Long range shooters that are comfortable accurate with their shots.
Speaker 1: That's they don't just buy a gun by them loaded
Speaker 1: up and head to the woods when you know, they
Speaker 1: spend some time behind the gun, right, You have to
Speaker 1: undertand like you're talking about the wind, learning how to
Speaker 1: cope with wind conditions, and no one if it's too
Speaker 1: there's too much wind or not, you know, or if
Speaker 1: it's good and you can send it, or it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of wind and I can compensate.
Speaker 1: You don't learn that just by not practicing. You have
Speaker 1: to practice with your gun. You have to spend some
Speaker 1: time understanding how that wind affects it. You know, whether
Speaker 1: let's say the wind's blowing on your side of the
Speaker 1: ridge this way, it could be blowing a different opposite
Speaker 1: way over there, you know, and identifying wind currents and
Speaker 1: all that. I mean, we could go down a rabbit
Speaker 1: hole for a couple hours on just wind in itself.
Speaker 1: But I'm just trying. The point I'm trying to make
Speaker 1: is you have to spend that time with your gun
Speaker 1: to understand it and become a proficient shooter and then
Speaker 1: understanding how to execute a perfect shot. I could get
Speaker 1: on a rifle and shoot at a at a distant target,
Speaker 1: and I could probably hit okay, by somebody who is
Speaker 1: who has been practicing and using the right techniques and
Speaker 1: body postures to shoot, is going to outshoot me in
Speaker 1: it every day because they execute the shot so much differently.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot to it. It's not just holding
Speaker 1: the gun up and looking through a crosshairs and squeezing
Speaker 1: the trigger off. There's a lot of best practices while
Speaker 1: doing that to execute that shot as perfectly as possible
Speaker 1: so you get those those really good hits at distance.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and.
Speaker 2: I'm going to compare it to our tree hunt to
Speaker 2: just because I do. We do a lot of archery hunt.
Speaker 2: People see a long range shot, it's like, oh, you
Speaker 2: should try to do with the bow. Well, watch our videos.
Speaker 2: We do a lot of archery hunting. The one thing
Speaker 2: I'll say with archery, it's the same thing. If all
Speaker 2: you do you sit at a target and you sit
Speaker 2: in your bow and you take it to the woods.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't tell you. You know, I know
Speaker 2: people that seem to like wound a lot of animals
Speaker 2: at the bone and narrow and they're just not practicing
Speaker 2: right that all they're doing is sit at a target,
Speaker 2: they dial their bone and it's like, oh, I got
Speaker 2: my twenty thirty forty fifty dial, Okay, I'm good for
Speaker 2: hunt season. Yeah, you haven't practiced shooting. No, Like you're
Speaker 2: just dialed your bow in and then you hang it
Speaker 2: on the shelf and you wipe the dust offf and
Speaker 2: ready to go hunt. Same thing with the rifle. I
Speaker 2: feel like a lot of people they zeroed it in
Speaker 2: at the target range and then they put it in
Speaker 2: the gun, saye like, all right, when hunt season comes,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go shoot. I can't. I mean, it cracks
Speaker 2: me up. And again I'm not trying to make fun
Speaker 2: of people, but I'll see I'll drive down the mountain,
Speaker 2: I'll see some guy shooting beer cans with his rifle.
Speaker 2: Just make sure his gun is on. He shooting twenty
Speaker 2: five yards and then he's about ready to go l
Speaker 2: cut and it's like like this guy's going to be
Speaker 2: in the woods with me. You know, like go to
Speaker 2: a big grun range and practice, you know, get your
Speaker 2: hundred yards dialed or if you want it at two
Speaker 2: hundred yards whatever you prefer, get it dialed in, zero
Speaker 2: it in and then go from there you have to practice.
Speaker 2: You know, the guys that I see that actually do
Speaker 2: really good with archery, or the guys that attend these
Speaker 2: archery shoots, right, I think it really does challenge you.
Speaker 2: I really love doing archery shoots because I go and
Speaker 2: I was like, wow, Like it gives me confidence. I'm
Speaker 2: shooting downhills, I'm shooting uphills. It's good to practice that
Speaker 2: if you have a range where you can practice. Okay,
Speaker 2: because downhill shots are different than shooting uphill. Practice all
Speaker 2: those angles. Practicef you're doing long range practice, shooting in
Speaker 2: the wind, don't shoot like I'm only going to shoot
Speaker 2: on a calm day and then all of a sudden
Speaker 2: you have a fifteen million hour wind and then you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. If for me, when I make
Speaker 2: a shot, I have to be comfortable shooting. There is
Speaker 2: no and I think everybody tries to ReadWrite what ethics are? Right, right,
Speaker 2: Everybody's like, this is what ethics are. The ethic is
Speaker 2: if it's over this range, you should not shoot. That
Speaker 2: is not There's no written rule in what's ethical and
Speaker 2: what's not and how far are you shooting the animal?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: What's ethical is where you feel comfortable shooting. How far
Speaker 2: do you feel comfortable shooting? Some some people may only feel
Speaker 2: comfortable shooting forty yards with a bow. Some guys they
Speaker 2: can droll bulls at eighty yards all day long. Now,
Speaker 2: if they have a bull elk that's eighty yards, I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna I'm not going to be upset if I
Speaker 2: see them take a shot like that, because I know
Speaker 2: they're comfortable at doing it right. It's the same with
Speaker 2: the rifle, Like if there's guys that suck at shooting
Speaker 2: over five hundred yards, they shouldn't be shooting that range. No, absolutely,
Speaker 2: But if you're if these are guys that are at
Speaker 2: the range and they're shooting thousand yards all day long,
Speaker 2: and then they have an animal at seven fifty eight
Speaker 2: hundred yards, by all means take the shot right you
Speaker 2: feel comfortable shooting, do it. There's very very few times
Speaker 2: in my life that I've taken a thousand yard shot
Speaker 2: on an elk. Actually only one time, and I wasn't
Speaker 2: planning on it. It was either it was a it
Speaker 2: was a scenario thing. It's like, okay, like should I
Speaker 2: try to get close to the bull or should I
Speaker 2: shoot from here?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And Travis and I were just kind of talking with
Speaker 2: amongst each other, like, just take a rest and see
Speaker 2: how you feel. I rested on the ground. If I
Speaker 2: didn't feel comfortable, I wasn't going to take the shot.
Speaker 2: The bull was raking a tree. He was completely occupied.
Speaker 2: I rested, and I told Travis, I'm like, I am
Speaker 2: so still like I am rock solid. So Trav like, well,
Speaker 2: if you feel comfortable, there is no wind at all
Speaker 2: that's going to disturb the bullet. You know, we probably
Speaker 2: I said that range a lot. You should take the shot.
Speaker 2: This bull's breaking a tree. He's not going to walk
Speaker 2: out of the screen. So the other step I'd like
Speaker 2: to do, too, is you don't want to do this
Speaker 2: with bow. You never want to drive fire bow, but
Speaker 2: it is okay to drive fire a rifle, right, So
Speaker 2: take the bullet out, Just shoot it a couple times.
Speaker 1: Try and make to snap two empty dry fire shots.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a couple of dry fire shots until you feel comfortable.
Speaker 2: I've done this with friends that have never shot a
Speaker 2: long range before, where they're shooting like or like, I'll
Speaker 2: tell you about my friend who had a mountain goat tag.
Speaker 2: I was telling you about that. He was the last
Speaker 2: mountain goat tag of this area. Never show a long
Speaker 2: range gun. Before we get to the mountain go at
Speaker 2: four hundred yards, I said, hey, how do you feel
Speaker 2: that shooting? He's like, I'm actually a sucky shot. And
Speaker 2: I'm like, at first, my heart's thinking like oh no,
Speaker 2: oh no, this is gonna be bad. But four hundred
Speaker 2: yards is a cheap is a easy shot with this
Speaker 2: gun that I had. So I'm like, all right, let's
Speaker 2: do some practice trigger pulls. So we took the bullets out,
Speaker 2: and the goat's not going anywhere. He's on the hill side,
Speaker 2: you know. So I'm like, all right, pull the trigger.
Speaker 2: See how you feel he shoots? You know, he shoots,
Speaker 2: he it clicks right, no bullet in there. I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: how do you feel? He said. I closed my eyes.
Speaker 2: I was like, do it again. He did it again. Click.
Speaker 2: It's like, how that feel better? Like, do it again.
Speaker 2: We did it like five or six times. By the
Speaker 2: sixth time, I was like, how do you feel? Like
Speaker 2: that goat would have been dead? I was like, pens
Speaker 2: thrown around, thrown around. He drilled that goat. So sometimes
Speaker 2: it calms the nerves too. Yeah, whatever it takes to
Speaker 2: calm the nerves you have. What's great with long range
Speaker 2: you have the time. When I edit a video, I
Speaker 2: try to make it entertaining. But if if you're actually
Speaker 2: to watch the whole video, we're sitting there twenty to
Speaker 2: thirty minutes on an animal to where it stands at
Speaker 2: the perfect time, is not going to walk out because
Speaker 2: that bullet takes time to get to the animal. The
Speaker 2: animals walking and you're shooting a long range, it can
Speaker 2: you can go from being a perfect shot to a wound.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: You want to find where the animals occupied. Is it eating?
Speaker 2: Is it laying down something that like I said, the
Speaker 2: bullouk for me it was raking a tree. He was
Speaker 2: raking a tree, completely occupied. I sent it shot it
Speaker 2: drilled him right behind the shoulder. So something that occupies
Speaker 2: him is another thing. You take your time. You have
Speaker 2: all the time in the world. If it's a rushot,
Speaker 2: if it's an animal walking out of a clearing and
Speaker 2: it's eight hundred yards, you just don't shoot right. It's time.
Speaker 2: You're going to have to move in close to get
Speaker 2: a shot on him. So there's a lot of obstacles
Speaker 2: with long range shooting, but it's it's We've talked about
Speaker 2: this before. It takes practice and it takes time. The
Speaker 2: one thing I really like with gun Works is a
Speaker 2: simplify it for the average person in the sense of,
Speaker 2: like they do the reloads for you too. You know,
Speaker 2: someone who works a lot, Sometimes a person doesn't have
Speaker 2: time to do reloads. And what reloads are is you're
Speaker 2: pretty much you're assembling for someone who's never done it
Speaker 2: or know what that is. You're assembling the brass, the gunpowder,
Speaker 2: and the bullet yourself, right. And there's a lot.
Speaker 1: Of technique and technical work there too to be identified
Speaker 1: and executed to have a really good round to shoot.
Speaker 2: It is, and I'll be honest and saying that you'll
Speaker 2: always get a more accurate load with a reload than
Speaker 2: any other way. However, there is some good factory loads
Speaker 2: out there. There is some and gun Works they've kind
Speaker 2: of perfected in their own way where they have found
Speaker 2: that if they do it this way with this caliber,
Speaker 2: it works well, and so they can they can produce
Speaker 2: it to where they can get it to you and
Speaker 2: you don't have to do those reloads. And so I
Speaker 2: have a Gunworks round where I didn't have to reload
Speaker 2: those and I'm tinging thousand yard plates all day right
Speaker 2: with that? And and so if you don't have the time,
Speaker 2: like I said, some people just work. They don't have
Speaker 2: the time to sit there and take a full day
Speaker 2: off to try to figure out what load your gun takes.
Speaker 2: Well that's another option for you is to go through them.
Speaker 2: And again, I'm not trying to be like an you know,
Speaker 2: like by gun Works, but I'm trying to be a commercial.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to be a commercial. I'm just saying
Speaker 2: that you use, that's what I use. And I've we've
Speaker 2: been using gun Works on and off for years, you know.
Speaker 2: So we went with Gunworks originally and then we tried
Speaker 2: some other stuff and we came back the gun Works
Speaker 2: just because we know how they work, and we they're
Speaker 2: very innovative. We really like what they do. And and
Speaker 2: you what did you think of the gun? So you
Speaker 2: you for a couple of days we've I've had you.
Speaker 2: You're holding a couple of different my guns, and you
Speaker 2: held the seventh psalm last night from gun Works. What
Speaker 2: was your opinion on that?
Speaker 1: Guy? Well, we're walking along, You're like, what do you
Speaker 1: think of that gun? I said, this is my new
Speaker 1: favorite gun, Like, I need one.
Speaker 2: Of these things. What was What was it that you
Speaker 2: liked about that sound?
Speaker 1: It's compact, it's light. I don't like a big, long,
Speaker 1: heavy rifle. A rifle with a barrel that's twenty eight
Speaker 1: inches long, thirty inches long, that's that's just it's hard
Speaker 1: to maneuver, especially in the kind of country I hunt,
Speaker 1: and in the kind of country you hunt, you know,
Speaker 1: big timber. It's just hard to pack around a big,
Speaker 1: heavy gun through the woods constantly. This thing was light.
Speaker 1: It pointed really easily and quickly, you know, when you
Speaker 1: shoulder it. I was on target right away. And then
Speaker 1: if you're packing a gun without a sling all day long,
Speaker 1: your arms get fatigue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine a fifteen pound gun in your arms.
Speaker 1: Oh no way, how did just said?
Speaker 2: Tom?
Speaker 1: No, I'll use my knife. Yeah, I'm gonna kill this
Speaker 1: ball with a knife. I'm not going to pack that gun. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I loved it. It was a really really lightweight,
Speaker 1: compact gun.
Speaker 2: So, and yes, I will agree in the sense that, like,
Speaker 2: you know, heavier guns, longer barrels, it seems to they
Speaker 2: say more accuracy. But you know you're asking me, like, well,
Speaker 2: how far is this gun get out to. You know,
Speaker 2: it's a light gun. It's an eighteen inch barrel. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I was. I smoked my meaee at eighty last year,
Speaker 2: one shot. Then my friend I gave him the gun.
Speaker 2: It was like I think it was either eight forty
Speaker 2: eight sixty and he shot his mealy with it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I was like, that's a trading accurate gun. And
Speaker 2: that thing is just it's nothing. It feels like a
Speaker 2: toy gun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does feel like a toy gun.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, sup lightly And I got it built like
Speaker 2: that for purpose, just for the sense of like, you know,
Speaker 2: I hunt in the best both worlds of hunting, the
Speaker 2: timber country and the open country. That was probably one
Speaker 2: of my you know, originally when we first got in
Speaker 2: the long range, we were packing those heavy guns around
Speaker 2: in the timber. Yeah, and then you have this big
Speaker 2: scope where it's like five and a half power by
Speaker 2: you know, twenty two or twenty three power that you're
Speaker 2: in those five and a half power and you know,
Speaker 2: when you see that elk in the timber and it's
Speaker 2: point blank, you pull up and you're like you're seeing
Speaker 2: hair and you're like got to try to find the
Speaker 2: kill zone. But I like, you know, for me, in
Speaker 2: scope choice, if you're so, if you're in the market
Speaker 2: of buying a scope, it's like, Okay, what can I
Speaker 2: buy for the best of both worlds? I like a
Speaker 2: scope that at least three power three power, I can
Speaker 2: shoot really good at that close range. I like three power,
Speaker 2: and then I try to get the farthest power possible
Speaker 2: that Leopold I have. It's a it's a three. It's
Speaker 2: a three by eighteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you shoot Leopold too, right, yep? Yeah, And
Speaker 2: what's your opinion on that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the same of the same thoughts, especially for
Speaker 1: new shooters if you haven't shot rifles a lot. In
Speaker 1: in heavy timber conditions or even sometimes open open countries,
Speaker 1: like a new hunter, sometimes it's really hard to acquire
Speaker 1: the target, right, So having that three power, you're not
Speaker 1: looking at hair right, you're look you you look through
Speaker 1: the site picture and it's like, okay, I see you know,
Speaker 1: pretty wide view. Oh there's a there's a deer. Okay,
Speaker 1: I see it. Now it's easier to acquire your target.
Speaker 1: I guess they should say a little easier with that
Speaker 1: lower power, especially in big timber exactly.
Speaker 2: And the also too you want to do is you
Speaker 2: always even if that long range and you're zoomed up.
Speaker 2: I'm just throwing this out there. Anytime you make a shot,
Speaker 2: zoom back down really quick, because what happens is you
Speaker 2: shoot an animal. Like I said, you zoomed up. It's
Speaker 2: great because you can see detail. The downside of being
Speaker 2: zoomed up, it's harder to find your target. Right, the
Speaker 2: more zoomed up you're, the harder to find your target.
Speaker 2: So people shoot then they're like they need to make
Speaker 2: another shots, Like I can't find the animal as soon
Speaker 2: as we shoot. The first thing we try to do
Speaker 2: is they get back on the animals you don't see
Speaker 2: it zoomed down, find them again. And if you have
Speaker 2: time to zoom up due if not ranging, make a
Speaker 2: shot zoomed down. If you're zoo the farther you zoom down,
Speaker 2: the quicker is to find the target.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: The end of story.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: So that's just happy. You have to get yourself into
Speaker 2: these habits can be done. You could train yourself with
Speaker 2: these habits now before you end up in the woods.
Speaker 2: When you have a scenario, you have a bowl of
Speaker 2: a lifetime. You mess up and you're like, oh, shoot,
Speaker 2: I could have would I should have? Could have? You know,
Speaker 2: you should have figured that you should have done all
Speaker 2: that practicing before you ended up in the woods. Have
Speaker 2: your equipment so again. And I also brought up a
Speaker 2: story yesterday about a really good friend of mine I
Speaker 2: went to high school with, and I saw his success
Speaker 2: change from when he was in high school to now
Speaker 2: now time. What's different now because before you were struggling
Speaker 2: with killing stuff, Now you're you're whacking and stacking. What
Speaker 2: is it you doing now that you weren't before? He says, Tom,
Speaker 2: I'm put putting in the time. And I'm like, that's
Speaker 2: really like the biggest foundation for hunters is putting in
Speaker 2: the time. You need to put in not just the
Speaker 2: time in hunting your animals, but the time and knowing
Speaker 2: your equipment and shooting it. I said, I know really
Speaker 2: good hunters, So it's fice. It goes both ways. I
Speaker 2: know guys that are really skilled shots, but they suck
Speaker 2: at hunting. I know guys that are really good at
Speaker 2: finding animals, but they suck at shooting. Yeah, and you
Speaker 2: gotta you gotta prefect both. That's what's going to make
Speaker 2: you the ultimate killer.
Speaker 1: There's no there's no cheating it. There's no short cuts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think there's some shortcuts, as in you
Speaker 1: can learn from other people and maybe be mentored or
Speaker 1: take some courses, learn these things and then but you
Speaker 1: have to put them in practice. You can't just be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: they told me this and then think you're going to
Speaker 1: go out and accomplish it. I mean, you still have
Speaker 1: to put put in the time. You have to put
Speaker 1: in the time scouting, you have to put in the
Speaker 1: time hiking, you have to put the time shooting. And
Speaker 1: I love this part. You were talking earlier about shooting
Speaker 1: your bow in your backyard, and this relates exactly with
Speaker 1: with rifles too. Everyone is a pro and they're about
Speaker 1: own backyard. Everyone probably shoots really good at the range
Speaker 1: right that you have a nice solid rest, you can
Speaker 1: calm yourself, you can shoot very accurately. It's like, man,
Speaker 1: my gun is awesome. Man at one hundred yards or
Speaker 1: two hundred ards wherever, however far the range is, it's
Speaker 1: a it's a set distance, it's never changing. It's a
Speaker 1: very comfortable place to shoot. Now you go to total
Speaker 1: archery challenge with your bow in your backyard. Oh, I
Speaker 1: drill hundred yards targets all day. You go to the
Speaker 1: Total Archery Challenge, it is a whole different world. So
Speaker 1: you have to really temper your expectations of what you're
Speaker 1: what you think your your maximum shot distance is, whether
Speaker 1: it's archery or rifle. So when you get to and
Speaker 1: you put yourself in these situations like, oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: can hit I can hit an elk at of eighty
Speaker 1: yards because I do a hundred in my backyard. Well,
Speaker 1: you go to the total Total Archery Challenge and you
Speaker 1: have to shoot at a thirteen degree downhill angle and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, your arrow don't even hit the
Speaker 1: elk or it hits it in the butt. Right, hold
Speaker 1: on from everything from shot execution to maybe you don't
Speaker 1: have your third access dialed on your site right same
Speaker 1: with rifle, Like I know, I've got good friends that
Speaker 1: do a lot of long range shooting. Once they got there, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm on paper, everything's dial and my gun is grouping.
Speaker 1: I know it's accurate. Now. They don't sit there at
Speaker 1: the range and just pound targets at the range all
Speaker 1: the time. What they do is they go out in
Speaker 1: the field and they go to areas it would be
Speaker 1: similar to where they're hunting, and they're starting to make
Speaker 1: those same shots that would be similar to what you
Speaker 1: would make in real world conditions. They find a big
Speaker 1: rock bluff, you know, maybe they're taking a very vertical
Speaker 1: shot up or down a long distance. It's windy, it's
Speaker 1: a big canyon, there's different wind currents from one side
Speaker 1: to the other. Now they're testing. They think they know
Speaker 1: about shooting long distance, and it's very surprising. It's like, wow,
Speaker 1: I can hit really good at the range, but I
Speaker 1: need to make I need to do some work out
Speaker 1: here in the field. So you understand how to hold
Speaker 1: for wind, you know, or dial for win, and you
Speaker 1: start understanding your limitations. You start understanding, you know, your
Speaker 1: rifles performance, how just laying differently, squeezing differently, holding the
Speaker 1: gun differently affects your shot so dramatic compared to sitting
Speaker 1: on a bench.
Speaker 2: Exactly. And you've brought something up really important too. So
Speaker 2: when we anytime, so for example, we got a hunt
Speaker 2: that come you know, if we were hunting Wyoming, that
Speaker 2: train is so different. You're in higher elevation, different altitude,
Speaker 2: different barometic pressure, everything there's a lot of things that
Speaker 2: go into by going into a new area. Right, we
Speaker 2: like to pop a rock before the hunt starts over there.
Speaker 2: We're like, we're in a new area. Let's see how
Speaker 2: we're shooting. Yeah, see if the gun's on. If it's not,
Speaker 2: then we have to figure something mouse out before the
Speaker 2: season starts. We like to go into a hunt a
Speaker 2: couple of days early. Now, are we doing it in
Speaker 2: area we're gonna hunt? No? Are doing anrew where other
Speaker 2: people are camp. No, We're really careful where we do
Speaker 2: that at. And we want to make sure that. We
Speaker 2: just want to make sure that when we hunt the animal,
Speaker 2: want to hit it now. Can mistake still happen? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: And the one thing that I want to bring up
Speaker 2: to is, let's say you do wound an animal and
Speaker 2: you can't find it. Don't let that and don't let
Speaker 2: that each you apart to where you put your gun
Speaker 2: in the safe and you never want to touch it again.
Speaker 2: I've seen the same thing with bow hunters. Some guys
Speaker 2: like they wound an animal and they can't find it.
Speaker 2: They did the scourage, they feel really bad about the
Speaker 2: yelk and they hang up their bone. They said, I'm
Speaker 2: never going to go our chan again. That just felt
Speaker 2: too bad to wound an animal. You know, do I
Speaker 2: feel bad when that happens. Absolutely, I get sick to
Speaker 2: my staf But I think important. It's the most important
Speaker 2: thing is to get back on the horse and just
Speaker 2: you should just learn from that. Like, Okay, that sucked.
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that again. What can I
Speaker 2: do to make myself a better shot?
Speaker 1: What went wrong?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: How do I fix it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? How do I fix that? And then move forward?
Speaker 2: That's what makes a good hunter. You can look at it.
Speaker 2: I don't care how good of a shot you are.
Speaker 2: Look at every hunter that you know. It could be
Speaker 2: on Instagram, it could be YouTubers. Everybody at one point
Speaker 2: makes mistakes. I will laugh in someone's face if they
Speaker 2: said they killed twenty bullok and they've never wounded an elk,
Speaker 2: I will laugh in their face because I know it's
Speaker 2: not true. Every person has made a mistake at one
Speaker 2: point in their life. And you know it's just the
Speaker 2: question is is how many? How many of those animals
Speaker 2: you killed were killed successfully? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Mistakes do happen. You just got to move forward and
Speaker 2: make sure it doesn't happen again. You always focus on that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so and I'm all about that, all about just like
Speaker 2: being a better hunter. Yeah, And look, even I could
Speaker 2: this year if I feel like I'm the best shooter
Speaker 2: in the world, I don't hang up the gun because
Speaker 2: you can get out of practice pretty quick too. I've
Speaker 2: noticed that with archery hunt too. If I like skip
Speaker 2: a year, it's like, Okay, I've been shooting every day
Speaker 2: with my bow. I feel really good. And the next
Speaker 2: year I'm like, oh, yeah, I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: Then you don't. I don't shoot my boat for a
Speaker 2: bird time. It could be four or six months, and
Speaker 2: I take it to the archery shoot. All of a sudden,
Speaker 2: I pick up bad habits. I'm like, why am I
Speaker 2: not hitting the targets. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm like
Speaker 2: I'm shooting my trigger rock, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And the one thing I noticed, and again I'm kind
Speaker 2: of getting off topic, but I was noticing something this spring.
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I was a little out
Speaker 2: of practice. My bow got stolen last fall, and so
Speaker 2: then I went a few months without a bow. I
Speaker 2: got a brand new bow, got a new release. In
Speaker 2: this spring. I was doing an archery shoot. I was
Speaker 2: all over the place the first four targets, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: what am I doing wrong? All a sudden, I just
Speaker 2: started paying attention to my trigger pulling. I realized that
Speaker 2: I wasn't my finger wasn't even on the trigger. By
Speaker 2: the time, I would be like this far off away
Speaker 2: from the trigger, like just like a quarter inch. And
Speaker 2: then I'd hit my trigger right when I felt like
Speaker 2: my creussers are.
Speaker 1: On, you're just punching it.
Speaker 2: Just I was punching it. And as soon as like, Okay,
Speaker 2: chill the freak out, Tom, keep your finger on that
Speaker 2: trigger and just pull slowly, you know, And then I
Speaker 2: started doing that and big change, Like my then I
Speaker 2: was hitting where I needed to, you know, on the
Speaker 2: targets throughout the course. I'm not a professional archer, but
Speaker 2: I can kill the target, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: That's my goal is to kill the target. Right I'm
Speaker 2: not I'm not a ten X shooter, but I'm always
Speaker 2: trying to kill the target. That's kind of how I
Speaker 2: do that. But just going back to shooting, like just
Speaker 2: because you feel like you're a good shot now because
Speaker 2: you've been practicing, doesn't mean to hang up the gun.
Speaker 2: Just consistently shoot same thing. With long range, you can
Speaker 2: easily get out of practice rush shots. People just it's
Speaker 2: good to have a second guy. It's fine versa. Sometimes
Speaker 2: Travis is there with me and I'm like, I'm getting antsy.
Speaker 2: I want to shoot this this bowl elk and he's
Speaker 2: at eight hundred yards and I feel like he's getting away.
Speaker 2: Child's like, calm down, Calm down, you're too wiggly. I
Speaker 2: see you shaking. Calm down, you know, like like Adam
Speaker 2: on his sheet this this year or last fall. I
Speaker 2: was like, Adam, I see your heartbeat through your shirt,
Speaker 2: Like you need to calm down at him. So it's
Speaker 2: good to have extra people there too, to be there
Speaker 2: to help you out. Because long there's a lot that
Speaker 2: does go into long range shot and and so that's
Speaker 2: another like if you were to long range shoot, I
Speaker 2: feel more comfortable to taking farther shots if I had
Speaker 2: somebody next to me, right, Like, there's some shots I
Speaker 2: won't take. I'm like, if I had somebody next to me,
Speaker 2: i'd take it. But means I don't to spot my shot.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to risk the shot. I'll just getting closer.
Speaker 1: That makes sense, Yeah, absolutely well. I love it well man,
Speaker 1: Thanks Tom, I appreciate you coming on. We're hitting an
Speaker 1: hour here and we don't typically like to go any
Speaker 1: further than that. I feel like we could. I honestly
Speaker 1: feel like we could talk all day about what you have.
Speaker 1: But we've been hunting for three and a half days together,
Speaker 1: and we've talked NonStop, like two schoolgirls about elk hunting, this,
Speaker 1: elk cutting, that, mule deer hunting, wolf hunting. Like we've
Speaker 1: covered the gamut of every kind of hunting that you guys,
Speaker 1: you and your family have done, and we're still talking
Speaker 1: about new stuff today. Like we haven't talked about this
Speaker 1: stuff much.
Speaker 2: Well, And I see you're passionate about oh cutting too,
Speaker 2: because it's like, you know, because you're running a Phillips
Speaker 2: game calls and stuff, and sometimes you think as somebody
Speaker 2: hunts an animals so much, it's like, ah, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just another elk. But you're when I hear you talk
Speaker 2: about elk, it's it. I can see. It's your life
Speaker 2: and your blood, Like, yeah, that's all that's on your mind.
Speaker 2: You're just like you're telling me stories, just stories after
Speaker 2: story after story of all these elk experiences you have
Speaker 2: and some are big bulls and some some bulls are
Speaker 2: like average bulls. Yeah, but like some of those bulls
Speaker 2: like that you've killed that were average are sometimes, like
Speaker 2: I say, like I could tell like that was more
Speaker 2: of a memorable experience than some of the bigger bulls
Speaker 2: that you killed, Yeah, just because. And I think that's
Speaker 2: really neat to see your passion and elk hunting and
Speaker 2: and that you know, it's like it shows me that
Speaker 2: you really love what you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'd like to say the same thing about
Speaker 1: you too, is like your enthusiasm in which you talk
Speaker 1: about your stories and you tell all about all these
Speaker 1: different experiences you've had. And then I see your trophy room,
Speaker 1: which I don't know if you can hang another set
Speaker 1: of elkhorns or deer horns on the wall here, but
Speaker 1: this isn't all of them.
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: Then then this is your this is your dad's house
Speaker 1: in the in in his in his downstairs trophy room.
Speaker 1: Then he's got like a workshop area and the walls
Speaker 1: are covered with antlers in there, and I know you
Speaker 1: and your brothers all have antlers at your house's it's incredible.
Speaker 1: And then when you you talk and you show me
Speaker 1: to the places you hunt. Like you take one look
Speaker 1: at this country and you immediately, in my mind says,
Speaker 1: there's nobody that's going to kill anything here unless you
Speaker 1: are one hundred percent committed and passionate about climbing up
Speaker 1: through these nasty, thick forests, you know, up these steep
Speaker 1: slopes to the higher elevation, or just you know, punching
Speaker 1: through timber whatever. It takes a lot of dedication. And
Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes people see success and they don't
Speaker 1: understand the work that that goes behind that success. And
Speaker 1: I and I and I and I know this firsthand,
Speaker 1: but spending this time with you this week just really
Speaker 1: reinforces that. It's like, I think you and your family
Speaker 1: are incredible people. Besides just the hunting accomplishments, your family
Speaker 1: is just amazing.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I've enjoyed so much, you know, spending my time here
Speaker 1: visiting with them, and only got to see you know,
Speaker 1: part of your family. I haven't even got to, you know,
Speaker 1: spending time with your other brothers. Yeah, so I look
Speaker 1: forward to that at some point too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, most everybody's working. I guess Travis
Speaker 2: is sheep hunting right now. And yeah, and everybody's kind
Speaker 2: of like gone doing other things right now, but trying
Speaker 2: to get ready for Archie Elk season.
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, this this episode
Speaker 1: I kind of messed up, but I didn't read any
Speaker 1: any listener questions. Okay, but I'm just gonna throw this
Speaker 1: out there for for some of the next episodes. If
Speaker 1: you guys have any questions you want to hear me
Speaker 1: or my guests answer, email us at CTD at Phelps
Speaker 1: Gamecalls dot com and give us your question, or better yet,
Speaker 1: I have a super secret phone number you can call
Speaker 1: in and you can leave a message. You leave a
Speaker 1: detailed message, it can't be over three minutes. And then
Speaker 1: that mess ask the question. Ask your question about whatever
Speaker 1: it is, whether it's calling or hunting tips or whatever,
Speaker 1: any kind of big game animals or predators, and we'll
Speaker 1: do our best to answer that that question, and that
Speaker 1: super secret phone number is to zero eight two one
Speaker 1: seven seven zero one, and leave that message, keep it
Speaker 1: under three minutes, and we'll zero the best. So anyway,
Speaker 1: thanks again, Tom, It's been a pleasure, and look forward
Speaker 1: to our new next adventure together in the near future.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, thank you.