WEBVTT - The Zen of Pain 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.000 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:13.880 Works dot com. Hey what this stuff to blow your Mind? 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:16.520 My name is Robert lamp and I'm Julie and we 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:19.720 covered the topic of pain before on this podcast. We 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.720 talked about the future of pain pain management. We've stipped 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:24.960 their toes from the whole discuption of where does pain 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:31.880 come from? The factor into our experience of reality. In 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:36.320 this episode, we really want to get into the question 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.279 why do we seek out pain? I mean, we've all 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:45.159 seen images, We've all seen footage of various h ritualistic 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.919 pain exercises going on around the globe, and a lot 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.199 of us have probably asked why, why would they do that? 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:54.600 Why are they doing that? Why is that person sticking 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.600 that sharp thing through their body right now completely of 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:00.360 their own free will? Why why are they engaging in 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.880 self harm? What are they getting out of it? And uh, 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:06.920 it's a fascinating question. We start breaking it apart when 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.720 you start, when you start looking at the studies that 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:14.200 have examined the benefits of pain, that the weird crossover 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:17.560 between pleasure and pain. Um, and so that is what 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.360 we're attempting to tackle in this episode. Yeah, and I 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.319 wanted to mention real quick, we are just exploring this topic. 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:27.120 We are of course, not advocating that anyone undergo feats 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.440 of of pain so that they can achieve some sort 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.800 of transcendence. This is just kind of looking at pain 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:38.120 and pleasure and the social aspects of why people would 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.760 engage in pain, what sort of benefits, why would they 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:45.200 do it. It's an exploration of these different questions. Um. 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:47.400 And the best way to get at it is to 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:51.600 really look at some of the more historical rituals of pain. 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.600 I say, for me, one of the earliest examples that 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.840 became aware of was Christian flagellation. Uh. And this is 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.160 probably from like seeing the movie The Name of the 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.040 Rose at a real early age, and there's a scene 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.680 in there where the monk is punishing himself by by 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.239 striking his back flashes and uh, you know, and and 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:12.200 at the time I was too going to really understand 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:14.440 all that was going on in that scenario, but it 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.119 had an impact on me. Here's somebody that is has 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.399 devoted their life to God and they are inflicting pain 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.359 upon themselves. Well. And of course to tie that even more, 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.079 I grew up in in the Christian church, and so 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.720 I always was confronted to the point of almost not 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.520 seeing it, this image of someone suffering on the cross. 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.840 But but more on that later. Yeah, and my first, 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.200 I guess you would say introduction to mortification of the 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:44.120 flesh for spiritual reasons was the hair shirt, which is, 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:46.760 you know, a sort of a signature of some early 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.120 Christian sex who are doing penance for what they perceived 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.360 as a sin. And the idea is that you have 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:56.440 this shirt that looks maybe great on the outside, but 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.800 on the inside it'sligned with course goat's hair, and it's 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.880 meant to be this fleshly reminder of your transgression. And 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:09.480 some people even would weave um twigs or thin wires, 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:13.239 and so this idea that this constant irritation is a 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:17.799 reminder that you you are not only expressing your faith 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.400 in the transgression that that occurred, but also you're trying 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:23.760 to train your soul into the right direction with this 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.720 fleshly reminder. There's a great a parody of of this 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:29.800 kind of a thing. And of course the money Python 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:32.400 and the Holy Grail, where you see the monks uh 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.839 in a line filing through the village and then they're 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.280 they're chanting something in Latin and then smacking themselves in 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.840 the face with a board. Uh. And but they're they're 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.600 playing on the tradition of the flagelens who uh. In 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.560 the fourteenth century, you know, amid this atmosphere of fear 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.119 and uncertainty, I mean, you had war raging, you had 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.640 black death creeping from door to door, and all the 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:55.400 while supposedly God's watching on high rather unmoved by all 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.440 of this. So you end up speaking the language of pain. 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.280 I mean, that's that's what this is all about. It's 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.200 it's about seeking penance for the sin of the world 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.560 two con penance through through physical punishment of the self. 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.280 And so they're walking around, they're punishing themselves and trying 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.280 to sort of take the sins of the world upon them, saying, look, 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.440 if essentially laying out the argument, alright, God, if I 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.440 beat myself enough times, well you may be just lighten 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:21.800 the load on all of us. Yeah. And there's a 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:25.040 kind of obedience factor at play there as well as 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:27.600 this sort of like self rigor. Yeah. And of course 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:29.960 all of this is taking place within a faith that 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:33.880 has at its center a man suffering and dying on 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:37.359 an instrument of torture. So the story of pain, the 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:42.120 story of suffering, permeates the entire world view. Now you 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:46.280 can also look at Islam for another example of mortification 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:50.600 of the flesh. Yes, the Islamic day of Ashura, this 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:54.320 is a time when some Shia Muslims practice self flagellation 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.279 on the day to commemorate the suffering of a mom Hussaying, 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.120 the grandson of the prophet Moham, the suffering and death 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:05.800 of the of your mom Hussein um and and so 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.560 you know, this is another example of of of them engaging, 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:13.800 re enacting, feeling the pain of of of an existing 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:17.320 story within their faith. Yeah. But I think it's interesting 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.080 about that is that that this metaphorical thing at the 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.480 same time they are bringing the physical body into it. 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.440 But transcendence is certainly at play here, and devotion is 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:32.760 at play. And then you have various firewalking rituals around 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.479 the world. Indeed, Uh, there are a number of examples 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.080 that we mentioned in our episode on firewalking. So if 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.719 you want a deeper dive into the science of firewalking, 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.560 the trick trickery of firewalking, Uh, that's definitely a podcast 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.880 you should listen to. But again, this. This takes place 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:53.640 around the world everywhere, from from corporate retreats to the 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:58.040 Christian firework work walking tradition in northern Greece, the festival 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.240 of Anistonaria. This is when, uh, it's all about the 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.119 eyea that sat Constantine protects them from being burned because 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:08.000 they they have this faith in them and devotion to him. Um. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.599 But it's it's essentially walking across hot coals. Yeah, and 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:14.000 if you can do it without you know, crying out 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:17.279 or without pain, then surely you must be the most devoted. 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:19.000 But when in fact we know that we have really 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.200 thick soles on our feet and handsually it's from from 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.640 heat pretty well. But you know, it's again, it gets 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.760 complicated in all of these rituals because there's obviously they're 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.120 gonna be varying degrees of actual pain, but an actual 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.600 physical pain. But layered upon all of that is the 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.520 storytelling and the experience and and some of the scientific 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.760 principles that were going to discuss later on. Now. The 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:45.200 next is this next example is from a vegetarian festival 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:49.120 in Thailand, which sounds just doesn't it sound lovely? Like 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.520 I bet that there there's all sorts of like wonderful 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.400 archies and old cheeses you can get and um, but 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.400 the Tie are known for their arties cheese. Yeah, lots 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.600 of tie to eye right now. But no, it does 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:04.840 sound great because you're thinking of vegetarian tie. I love 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:09.960 Vegetarian Tide and the kids. It's a little more complicated 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:14.440 than that, however. Um. The Food Cat Vegetarian Festival is 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.600 is certainly colorful. It's held over a nine day period 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:21.520 in October, and it celebrates the Chinese community's belief that 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.880 absinence from meat and various stimulants during the ninth lunar 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.280 month of the Chinese calendar will help them obtain good 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:31.400 health and peace of mind. And amid this, you see firewalking, 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.280 you see body piercing and other acts of self mortification 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.840 that are all about the participants acting as ultimately as 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.720 as mediums for the gods. Yeah, they removed parts to 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:45.440 their skin, performed blood letting, and pale their cheeks and 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:49.520 limbs with anything from knives and skewers to antlers and umbrellas. 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.880 Didn't she say that even saw a lamp. Yes, I 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.760 think I saw a lamp in one image, but that 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.800 it's interesting that this is a festival where you see 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:03.120 the bodily mortification and as well as simply altering your diet, 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.960 again showing that there's a there's a broad spectrum UH 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.440 that entails self punishment and self denial, that they're all 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.239 ultimately kind of shades of the same thing, and again 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:17.160 wrapped within ritual, wrapped within worldview and belief. And I 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:18.800 know you want to get hit that big theme, but 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.800 I have to go back to something pretty pedestrian. The 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:26.080 crowd gets in by throwing firecrackers at the people who 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:31.320 are doing these actors of mortification of the flesh. I'm 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.760 just saying to add a little little extra, well, a 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.439 little vegas. Yeah, and it's it is important. This will 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.679 come up as we get into some of the studies. 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.080 But not only are the people suffering and we're at 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.800 least engaging in physical pain in these UH rituals important, 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.720 but the people beholding it are important. And we'll talk 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:52.280 about the the social construct behind this because it's pretty fascinating. 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:54.600 Another festival that you might want to attend is the 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:58.480 Hindu tithe for some festival. Yes, this is a festival 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.680 celebrity mostly by the Hamil community. On the full moon 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.200 of the Tamil month of Thai that's January February, and 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:09.200 the festival commemorates the occasion when when Povarty gave murro 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:14.120 Gun a special spear to defeat the demon Sporadamon so on. 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.319 On this day of the festival, devotes will shave their 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:19.720 heads and they'll undertake a pilgrimage on a set road 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:23.560 while engaging in various acts devotion. Notably, they're carrying out 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:28.040 different types of burdens or cavati UH and UH. In 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.480 its simplest form, this can entail simply carrying a pot 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:34.080 of milk, but it also can involve mortification of the flesh, 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:38.320 piercing of the skin, tongue, or cheeks with skewers is 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.760 one of the examples that you you will generally see in 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.960 UH in any photos of this event, certainly the photos 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:46.600 that tend to you know, make the way around the internet, 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:48.400 and again people end up looking at these and they're saying, 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:50.719 who are these people? Why are they doing this thing 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.640 that they do? Uh? And as we're unrolling, we see 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:56.679 examples of this in there in all sorts of worldviews, 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.760 all sorts of religious rituals around the world. Yeah, and 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.560 less do you judge too quickly. Again, hang on, because 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:04.680 we're going to talk about some other modern day things 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.720 that we do that are on par with this um. 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:09.480 But one of the things that's brought up in this 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:13.080 festival is that sometimes pierced worshippers are sometimes attached to 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.360 ropes um with the hooks that are in their bodies, 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:20.120 and then they're pulled by other devotes and they are 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:25.800 suspended in the air from their flesh suspension. Yes, which 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:31.479 figures pretty prominently in the oky Paw hook suspension ceremony. 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:35.360 This is a Native American um ritual. Yeah, And this 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.720 is generally takes place in a big and closed tent. 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:41.319 An individual would have been u would have multiple hooks 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.480 put into their skin because you can't just have one 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.640 because it justs It's kind of the bed of nail scenario, right. 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:48.680 A bet of one nail means you're gonna have a 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.080 nail sticking in your back. A bet of multiple nails 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.200 means that your your weight is distributed evenly. It's an 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.680 engineering solution basically. Of course, that's not not to say 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.560 that there's there's a lack of pain in the hook 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.920 suspension ceremony. You have physical pain you have this lifting 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:09.120 off the ground. There's almost ascension motif taking place. And 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:13.559 then in the individual UH is in the throes of 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.520 this sensation. UM. A number of people out there are 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.160 probably familiar with this or probably having some sort of 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.319 you know, flag go off in their head because Richard 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:27.440 Harris UH engaged in this in the film UM A 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:29.920 Man called Horse, which is an old Western and UH 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.360 And I remember catching part of it or seeing an 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.280 ad for it on TBS when I was a kid, 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:36.840 and I remember looking at and thinking, Oh, that's horrible. 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.240 What the what what these people ended up doing to 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:41.120 this Richard Harris character in this film, I don't want 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.640 to see that at the time, not realizing, not not 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:48.280 knowing that this was actually, you know, voluntary ritual. That again, 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:50.640 pain and pleasure are for more complex than we give 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:54.720 them give them credit. Yeah, the mannd In tribe is 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.320 one of the tribes known UM to practice this, and 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.760 they would suspend young warrior an annual rite of passage 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.600 ceremony that was celebrating the creation of the earth. Now, 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:07.880 another example that comes to mind, H and this is 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:11.520 the one that relates back to Christianity. UH. In the Philippines, 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.800 you see get Catholics in the Philippines every year engaging 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.720 in re enactments of the Passion of the Christ. So 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:22.599 we're talking actual self crucifixion. Well, I say self crucifixion. 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.240 But to engage in cruisiveiicition, you generally need a little help. 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.040 It's kind of a hard thing to do one handed. 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.720 But and in this we're seeing them actually physically with pain, 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:38.720 reenact the pivotal scene of torture and death at the 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.960 center of the Christian faith. And you know, we're not 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:46.000 talking hundreds of people. Sometimes I've seen accounts where you're 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.960 generally looking at maybe a dozen two dozen Um Filipino 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:53.480 is engaging in this is a particular practice. But but 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.840 then people were watching, and by watching, you're also taking 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.400 part in the ritual. Well, and this isn't you far 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:04.520 away from from some of the feats of physical strength 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:10.559 or endurance that someone in the gym Rose circus might undergo. Indeed, 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.119 you see people lining up to see physical spectacle, spectacles 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.480 of that that seemed to have suffering involved in them 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.840 all the time. And just within the the whole world 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.440 of the Passion of the Christ, you see plenty of 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:26.960 reenactments of that UH, throughout the Christian world that don't 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:31.360 entail actual physical suffering, but they are a reenactment all 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.000 of this event. And really, I mean when you when 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.280 you get down to it, just a reenactment of it 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.560 without the pain and just a physical image of it 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.480 is on some level pretty intense, kind of disturbing. I mean, again, 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:44.120 you see it enough times you tend to not see 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.880 it anymore, but there it is. Indeed, now, if you 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.200 end up listening to this podcast on the website, I'll 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.040 make sure that I have a gallery that goes up 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.400 that includes some images from some of these festivals and 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.480 a few that we didn't mention, because again, there are 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.920 various rituals, various rights that place around the world that 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.120 involve physical pain. But that does not mean that the 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:08.160 religious world UH has a monopoly on this sort of thing. 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:12.480 You see an entire secular tradition of self inflicted or 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:16.559 at least voluntary UM receiving of pain in the b 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.200 D s M community, or giving pain which also yes, yes, 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.760 the giving and the receiving very much. But it's important 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:25.880 to note that we're within the b d S b 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:30.520 D s N theme we're talking about, UH, a consensual arrangement. 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.080 And within b D s M also you see an 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.600 entire spectrum. You see you see just you know, individuals 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:41.080 lightly spanking one another. You also see individuals engaging in suspension, 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:46.440 body modification, etcetera. And then also sometimes suspension is winds 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.680 up as part of art, part of performance art. In 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:52.720 our performance art episode we mentioned the performer Steel Arc, 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.400 and of course he's engaged in various UM thought provoking 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:02.160 but at times disturbing UM per performances that involve bodily 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.920 modification on some level or another. And he's engaged in 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:10.000 uh uh in suspension rituals if you will, several times 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.800 in the past. Within b D s M. It's not 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.600 always about sex. As we'll talk about later, there's there's 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:21.080 um sort of a transcendent component to this. Now to 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:24.320 talk about probably the most consensual relationship you could have. 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:29.120 UM one would be your morning workout in yourself right, 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.520 presumably that's consensual, because what's the big thing, right? Feel 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.680 the burn? Right? Yeah, I mean it's we we have 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.120 we whether we're you're going out in the morning and 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.640 doing your morning run, if you're fitting in you know, 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.760 time at the yoga studio, if you're you know, furiously 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.280 doing push ups or pull ups in the afternoon. There's 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.320 always this You're pushing yourself, and you're often pushing yourself 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.440 into an area that is on some level uncomfortable, but 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:59.160 then also rewarding also at the time, even kind of 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.520 physical rewarding, as opposed to just after the fact. Uh So, 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:09.240 if nothing else, think to your own exercise routine when 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.920 we're discussing all of this, because because you see shadows 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:13.880 of a lot of it just in that. Yeah, I mean, 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.680 pushing the envelope of of your abilities does put you 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:19.800 sometimes into that pain area. But there's a certain kind 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.360 of pleasure in that. Alright, we're gonna take a quick break, 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:24.120 and when we get back, we are going to talk 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:33.240 about the crossover with pain and pleasure. All Right, we're back. 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.760 We're discussing pain does in a pain. We've already laid 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.640 out a number of examples. Uh some of which are 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.240 are probably exotic to you, and then some of which 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:46.320 are right down home and in your living room. And 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.520 in all this, I also keep thinking of, what's that 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.680 awful song that had that line hurts so good, Make 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:57.080 it hurt so good, John Sugar, that's so good? Come 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.680 that's so good. That was the share version, the share 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.240 versions of one I'm thinking of. But that's that lyric 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.959 is great because at first it seems the paradoxical, Right, 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.360 hurt so good? How can it hurt so good? Hurt 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.359 is bad. It's kind of like that line in Roadhouse 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.520 where Patrick Swayzy says, pain don't hurt? How could pain 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.560 not hurt? Paint hurt? Pain is hurt. Pain. This is 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.280 what it's doing. What are you talking about, Soyzy? But 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:25.200 wow a Roadhouse reference? Yeah, Roadhouse is a isn't its 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:29.000 way a great film? I've seen it multiple times? Yeah? 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:34.200 I mean because they're not only bouncers, they're bouncer philosophers. Well, 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:38.280 and that's kind of a good example of how your 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.720 a magdala is also doing double duty. Right, it's a 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:46.520 bouncer of your emotions and a philosophizer of your emotions. 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:48.879 Because the thing that we know is that the amgdala 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:54.320 processes both pain physically and emotionally, and also processes other 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:58.440 emotions like pleasure and fear and joy. So it would 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.119 make sense that the perception of whether it's from like 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.679 social rejection or whether it's from an injury to your 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.879 flesh would be bound up in one another. Not to 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.680 mention the other things that we feel in life. Indeed, 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:13.840 back in two thousand two is an example this. Harvard 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:17.119 researchers UH conducted an experiment with a heated the hands 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.800 of eight volunteers to the point of pain while they 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:23.320 underwent brain scans, and the scan showed activity not only 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:25.800 in brain regions typically associated with pain, but also in 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.080 those devoted to enjoying pleasurable things like food, drugs, and sects. 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.080 So there we see that crossover, and this leads us 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.720 next to a substance we're always talking about when it 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:39.800 comes to human behavior and human desires and our reward system, 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.639 and that is of course dopamine. Yeah, Because what we 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:44.720 have is we've got this thing called the nucleus that 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:46.919 commins and it's a neural network in the middle of 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.760 the brain. It's the engine of the reward response, which 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:55.320 deals a lot in dopamine. And in a study led 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.280 by John Levine at the University of San Francisco, it 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:02.600 was determined that the reward way activates pain relief through 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.560 the release of both opioids, which is a morphine like 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.000 drug produced by the body and dopamine, which is that 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:13.639 chemical messenger whose effects can be mimicked by amphetamine and cocaine. 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:18.080 That's why that's so hard to beat addiction. So the 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:21.520 findings overturned this long held assumption that the release of 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:26.440 dopamine and the nucleus cucumbens is associated only with positive experiences. 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:30.040 Here we see examples of it being released in a 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.440 pain context. Now, can bear in mind that we're talking 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.280 about rituals in a lot of these cases as well, 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.480 and rituals in and of themselves can be arousing, and 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.439 his rituals become more arousing, they can trigger hormones and 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.800 stimulate the reward system of the brain. Uh. This, according 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.920 to anthropologist dmitri Zygolattis, can cause sensations such as pain 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.720 and fear to transform into pleasural experiences through a spike 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:55.480 in the neurotransmitter dopamine, in an increase in neuropeptides called endorphins, 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.480 which bind the brains opiate receptors and produce the same 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.600 soothing euphoria felt by a marathon runner. Again, we come 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:06.400 back to exercise, we come around to the runners high. Yeah, 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.440 that's a good way to contextualize this, Like why would 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.640 dopamine be released when I'm experiencing pain right, well, because 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.800 it because these sort of things are crossed over in 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:20.239 one another in the brain, and because this is very 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:23.399 much learned behavior, it doesn't matter what the thing is 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:25.639 that makes the dopamine happen. You're going to go to 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.760 the thing. If it becomes routinized enough. It could be food, 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.359 it could be pain, and that is why it could 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:36.680 hurt so good. But another way that it could hurt 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.120 so good is if it doesn't hurt as much as 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.480 you expected it to hurt. This is pretty interesting, according 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.200 to a two thousand thirteen study from the University of Oslo, 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:49.960 of pain that hits less severely than expected, as in, 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:52.160 you didn't spank me nearly as hard as I thought 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.080 you would. That can give us a rush of release 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:59.520 or even something like pleasure, which is kind of interesting. 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:01.639 And I was thinking about it in the context of 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:05.640 Adel and that's thanks to knowl, our producer, because he 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:10.119 had brought up that her song Somebody Like You is 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:12.120 a real not in addition to it being a real 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:16.119 tear jerker for people, that it has this thing that 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.360 it's doing and it's creating a sort of I don't 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:21.600 know if I would call it pain, but maybe metaphorical 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.240 pain in the brain. In other words, it has this 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.840 highly dismant chord directly on that you lyric, So somebody 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.960 like you and she messes with that with that you lyric. 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:34.800 And the reason why this is problematic for the brain 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:36.879 is because the brain likes a nice pattern and up 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.199 until then, there's been this pattern that it can follow 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:43.520 along with. But just that one little change and that 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:48.200 you lyric creates this f zone. This this this friction 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:53.359 in the brain, and that's when you see the um 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:57.320 the moment before dopamine is released in the brain because 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.320 as soon as that friction gets resolved within then the 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:04.080 next chord, which then follows back into a pattern, the 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:06.960 brain is almost like, oh, that didn't feel as bad 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:09.879 as I thought it was going to I was. And 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:12.480 this is just in music and on the symbolic level. 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:14.840 So that's why I bring it up, because when we're 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:20.840 talking about perceptions of discomfort in pain, we're meeting them 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:25.359 in different scenarios in our life, even in songs. I 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:27.560 think this is a great point bringing up the pattern 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:31.840 recognition because, uh, from what I've I've read a lot 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.280 of these B D s M situations and we're you know, 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:36.720 we're talking about the lower end of the spectrum, not 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:39.000 hanging from hooks. But you know, it's not a situation 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:41.159 where someone says, all right, spank me eight times, and 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:43.400