Speaker 1: All right, let's jo up in you guys. Take it
Speaker 1: easy on me, all right, I'll try no promises for
Speaker 1: Dan though, you don't have to take it easy on me.
Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of the Meat Eater podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: your honest to tell us I'm sitting in for Steven
Speaker 1: Ronella today. We're coming to you from the ZPC West
Speaker 1: offices in beautiful Bowsman, Montana. All Right, UM, I'm sitting
Speaker 1: here today surrounded by a few of the reasons why
Speaker 1: I love my job so much. And there are many
Speaker 1: reasons why I love my job. One of them is
Speaker 1: that I get to talk hunting with Steve know about
Speaker 1: five days a week. A lot of people think that
Speaker 1: would get old, but it does not. We just love
Speaker 1: talking hunting together. Um. Every creating adventures as part of
Speaker 1: my job description. It's just I love my job. But
Speaker 1: I also love it because I get to work with
Speaker 1: these fine people in this room right now. They're interesting,
Speaker 1: creative and thought provoking individuals. Um we have with us
Speaker 1: Any Racer, ZPC West producer, Britney Brothers, ZPC West producer
Speaker 1: and guest star on many Meat Eater episodes. Nicole call Tierry,
Speaker 1: social media manager of Meat eater and most things ZPC
Speaker 1: West and then Dan Dody, which is like the grand
Speaker 1: who's like the grand Wizard of ZPC West, and many
Speaker 1: more things I can't even get into right now. We
Speaker 1: don't have enough time for that. But um, the reason
Speaker 1: I have, we figured our topic today would be hunting.
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to say it right, but
Speaker 1: we're gonna throw it out there. Hunting with females, by females,
Speaker 1: female hunting, women hunting, however you want to put it.
Speaker 1: I just want to kind of discuss all that. And
Speaker 1: at first I was a little nervous about it, like, man,
Speaker 1: I'm surround myself with these three like kind of very intelligent,
Speaker 1: well well you know, knowledgeable, opinionated, you know women that
Speaker 1: I was thinking, hold on, like, that's how my life is.
Speaker 1: Every day. I'm like an office with them that I
Speaker 1: go home, I'm surrounding them, out numbered by women. So
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be nervous in this situation at all. Um.
Speaker 1: And I think for me, just to why I thought
Speaker 1: it'd be interesting, it's important for me to talk about this.
Speaker 1: It is because I do have two daughters, and you know,
Speaker 1: to me, for me to be a great dad to them.
Speaker 1: I think it's important to understand, you know, I try
Speaker 1: to understand women females. Um probably helps with me being
Speaker 1: a good husband too. And I also want them to hunt,
Speaker 1: you know, And so I think it's important for me
Speaker 1: and many of our listeners hopefully to like understand the perspectives, thoughts, feelings, motivations,
Speaker 1: all that stuff um from women hunters that surround women hunters,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it's just knowledge is power. So um,
Speaker 1: that's kind of why I want to do this. So
Speaker 1: first I kind of want to get you guys going
Speaker 1: and just have you explain kind of like what your
Speaker 1: background was to your relation to hunting before you were here,
Speaker 1: and kind of what brought you to, you know, being
Speaker 1: sitting here in this room today, and then what you
Speaker 1: like your current introduction to hunting was, you know, or
Speaker 1: if it wasn't like recent and it's not current, what
Speaker 1: it was many many years ago, um, brittany here, I
Speaker 1: got interested in hunting through meat either and before meat eater,
Speaker 1: I was completely anti hunting. Like I just I grew
Speaker 1: up in the South, um where just as like generalization, UM,
Speaker 1: I thought hunters were just sort of redneck bubba's who
Speaker 1: like to get drunk and shoot things. And even though
Speaker 1: I ate meat growing up, like I literally never equated
Speaker 1: the idea of hunting to meet UM, So I was
Speaker 1: so super against it. And then you know started, you know,
Speaker 1: went to film school and and started working at ZBZ,
Speaker 1: and at some point we picked up The Wild Within,
Speaker 1: which is the original Meat Eater show, and I was
Speaker 1: just like, oh god, we're doing a hunting show like
Speaker 1: this is like we're so much better than this. And
Speaker 1: then you know, had a big premiere party for a
Speaker 1: while Within and Steve's buddy's you know, cooked up all
Speaker 1: this awesome wild these wild game dishes, and I mean
Speaker 1: instant like venison diplomacy, Like I was an instant convert
Speaker 1: to hunting purely through the food. Um. Now I've been
Speaker 1: working with you know, Meat Eater and Steve and these
Speaker 1: guys for three years or so now, and like I
Speaker 1: just I shot my first animal this past fall with
Speaker 1: Annie who's here. UM shot my first rabbit with j
Speaker 1: Honest who's also here this fall, and um and did
Speaker 1: all shot too deer in Wisconsin. Um that was just
Speaker 1: on the meter episode. So um and I have a
Speaker 1: freezer full of meat now and I'm super stoked about that.
Speaker 1: That's long. Sorry. Yeah, UM, I come from a different background.
Speaker 1: I guess growing up in Ohio, it was really normal
Speaker 1: to hunt white tails. UM, so I was definitely around hunting.
Speaker 1: It wasn't familial to me, like it wasn't something that
Speaker 1: happened in my family. UM, but I had friends that hunted. UM.
Speaker 1: I moved from Ohio in the middle of high school,
Speaker 1: but I had actually signed up for a hunter's safety
Speaker 1: class when I was sixteen, so it was something that
Speaker 1: I was curious about back then. And then really in
Speaker 1: between that point of being sixteen and into my kind
Speaker 1: of mid twenties, UM, I was living in cities and
Speaker 1: going to college and just in more urban areas, so
Speaker 1: that exposure kind of died off. UM. I had friends.
Speaker 1: I went to Colorado State University, and I had friends
Speaker 1: that hunted ducks, like friends with um like duck hunting dogs.
Speaker 1: But it was never something I was really interested in.
Speaker 1: Then moving to I came to Bozeman for a corporate
Speaker 1: job in the fall, and UM, I mean just sort
Speaker 1: of by default when you come to Bozeman, you end
Speaker 1: up outside and I got into hiking, and UM remember
Speaker 1: having elk for the first time in a couple of
Speaker 1: friends houses and UM sort of being introduced to this
Speaker 1: idea of UM hunting as a source of meat that
Speaker 1: wasn't coming from the industrial complex. And that was really
Speaker 1: that like really kind of got the UM motor going.
Speaker 1: And then UM I did a backpacking trip on the
Speaker 1: Continental Divide by myself, and actually I had this really
Speaker 1: interesting moment where UM, I had been on the trail
Speaker 1: for a few days, I hadn't see ninny people, and
Speaker 1: I'm sitting at the top of this high field and
Speaker 1: I just eaten dinner in the sun like set behind
Speaker 1: the mountains, and UM cow elk walked into the field
Speaker 1: in front of me, and UM she was followed by
Speaker 1: a big bull and one by one, over hundred elk
Speaker 1: came out of the forest. And it was really strange
Speaker 1: because I froze and I realized, like on an instinctual level,
Speaker 1: I was like I am a predator, like it was.
Speaker 1: It was just a bizarre feeling. And after that night
Speaker 1: I decided that I wanted to hunt. And it was
Speaker 1: something that kind of had come out of this like
Speaker 1: just interesting moment. And I think all the different like
Speaker 1: introductions of my friends leaving up to that moment um,
Speaker 1: and then, um, I was looking for jobs and on
Speaker 1: gradulous I came across this ZPC position, which was like
Speaker 1: so serendipitous, And by that time I was really curious
Speaker 1: about hunting. I kind of made the decision that I
Speaker 1: wanted to hunt, and um, just becoming a part of
Speaker 1: the Meat Eater crew has totally giving me, given me
Speaker 1: this incredible education in background, and I like, I feel
Speaker 1: really privileged to learn from you guys. And then I
Speaker 1: was able to hunt for the first time this past
Speaker 1: season unsuccessfully. But um, I mean to me, I've identify
Speaker 1: as a hunter now, Like it's something that I want
Speaker 1: to do and it's something that I want to be
Speaker 1: a good ambassador for. Can I ask you a quick question?
Speaker 1: When you say you were sixteen you did the Hunter's
Speaker 1: Safety What was it there that like piqued your curiosity? Um,
Speaker 1: I had a really close group my Uh actually, my
Speaker 1: dad passed away when I was around when I was fifteen,
Speaker 1: and he was a big We had a lot of
Speaker 1: guns growing up in my house, Like that was really
Speaker 1: normal and um, but I had never grown up shooting
Speaker 1: or anything like that. But um, like throughout the time
Speaker 1: that he had cancered up until the time that he
Speaker 1: passed away. I had this really tight group of guy
Speaker 1: friends and um, they were all hunters and they kind
Speaker 1: of took me under their wing, and I like just
Speaker 1: I don't know. It was it was Midwestern. It was
Speaker 1: like very much like a community thing. And um, I
Speaker 1: think like a lot of their parents kind of took
Speaker 1: me and as like another kid, and it was just
Speaker 1: I don't know. It came from this community of guys
Speaker 1: that I was friends with, and um, there were a
Speaker 1: couple of us that were going to take the hunter
Speaker 1: safety class together, but we ended up moving before I
Speaker 1: did that. My turn. I grew up in um Montana
Speaker 1: and I wanted to be a veterinarian. And my dad
Speaker 1: whenever we drive by like roadkill, I would like almost
Speaker 1: start crying and he's like, oh, they're just sleeping like
Speaker 1: to the deer. And I was believed him, and uh,
Speaker 1: he started hunting. Um, he's not from here, but he
Speaker 1: started hunting probably five years after, maybe two years after
Speaker 1: we moved here. Um, dear and elk Um and got
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff and we were always eating like
Speaker 1: wild game. We had like a huge freezer in our
Speaker 1: garage and my mom and dad made awesome wild game meals,
Speaker 1: and I think eventually I decided I didn't want to
Speaker 1: be a vet and probably started realizing the deer weren't
Speaker 1: always sleeping on the side of the road. Um. And
Speaker 1: then I moved to vermont for nine years for high
Speaker 1: school and college, and there's also a lot of hunting there,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't as exposed to it, probably as I
Speaker 1: was when I was living at home. And then after college,
Speaker 1: I moved to Los Angeles, um, and I don't think
Speaker 1: I ever thought about hunting in the six years I
Speaker 1: lived there. Um. And then I moved back to Montana
Speaker 1: about a year ago and became friends with Brittany and
Speaker 1: she told me short on this hunting show and I
Speaker 1: was kind of like whatever, like not interested. And then
Speaker 1: I'm like a freelance producer. So this thing came up,
Speaker 1: Um this summer, this documentary. I'm allowed to talk about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're making a documentary, surementary. And they needed help. So
Speaker 1: they called me and we met that it and I
Speaker 1: was available and I was like sure, I'll do it.
Speaker 1: But I still wasn't really a convert, like I was
Speaker 1: like whatever, like it's a job. Um. And then we
Speaker 1: went to Alaska for two weeks um to shoot a
Speaker 1: part of the dock with Steve, and it was like
Speaker 1: probably one of the I don't know, most like life
Speaker 1: changing experiences in my life, just like the hunting part
Speaker 1: and just the crew and being on Alaska. Sorry I
Speaker 1: confidentiality and stuff anyway, So um, that trip was just
Speaker 1: life changing. And I'd always thought about like where my
Speaker 1: food came from, and um, I read like some Michael
Speaker 1: Pollit in college and I got into different kinds of
Speaker 1: food movements. But after that I decided like I had
Speaker 1: to kill something and eat it, like just so I
Speaker 1: knew exactly where my food came from. So we got
Speaker 1: back I think the first weekend of September, and like
Speaker 1: two weeks later Nicole and I took Hunter's safety and
Speaker 1: then I don't know, Brittany and I both killed our
Speaker 1: first um dear like a few days in the hunting
Speaker 1: season together. Back up for a second, when you were
Speaker 1: on the trip in pow what what was was there
Speaker 1: a moment or what was sort of like the actual
Speaker 1: turning point? Can you remember or is it just sort
Speaker 1: of the whole thing? Did you feel it when you
Speaker 1: were there or did you feel it once you got home.
Speaker 1: Oh no, Like while I was there, I think I
Speaker 1: don't know. Every day it was just insane. I mean
Speaker 1: we caught and killed our food almost like every day.
Speaker 1: I've never done that. Like when Steve Um killed that
Speaker 1: black tailed deer, like we ate. I mean, I'm sure
Speaker 1: for hunters this as normal and now like that I've
Speaker 1: done it myself, it is, but we ate the heart
Speaker 1: and the liver like hours after he killed it. And
Speaker 1: that was like I had never in my life, even
Speaker 1: with fish, like done something like that. So that was
Speaker 1: just crazy. Probably that night when we were all on
Speaker 1: top of the mountain and like eating that and just
Speaker 1: all like really tired and haggard, and it was just
Speaker 1: like a celebratory event and eating that was awesome. And
Speaker 1: my perspective from that was like before and I became
Speaker 1: really close friends and we you know, I knew she
Speaker 1: was going on the shoot and I just kept saying
Speaker 1: like I can't wait to go hunting this fall, Like
Speaker 1: it's gonna be so fun. You should totally do it too,
Speaker 1: And she was kind of like, you know, like not
Speaker 1: really interested, and like the whole time we were on
Speaker 1: she was on the shoot, we were texting like the
Speaker 1: whole time. I don't know if you guys know, because
Speaker 1: like I knew everything that was going on, and just
Speaker 1: to the listeners a little bit of background, you had
Speaker 1: been on an elk hunt in the year before, was
Speaker 1: your first big game hunt. You had had that like
Speaker 1: initial experience to get you hooked right totally? Yeah, And um,
Speaker 1: I mean I've been interested in hunting ever since I
Speaker 1: started meeting it, like I said, but yeah, but anyway,
Speaker 1: the whole time, and I just remember I probably find
Speaker 1: it my phone just like a text like I want
Speaker 1: to go hunting now from her. That was just like
Speaker 1: I was just like what, Like that's also was so
Speaker 1: excited about it. And then like since when you got back,
Speaker 1: you know, like we just start planned, like started planning
Speaker 1: our our first hunt that we were going to go.
Speaker 1: That's one of the cool things about bullshooting Meat Eater
Speaker 1: and the documentary and all this stuff for the last
Speaker 1: few years is that the amount of life changing sentiments
Speaker 1: and life changing experience that people have out on these
Speaker 1: on the Meat Eater shoots is pretty much across the board,
Speaker 1: whether it's a camera guy or a producer or whatever,
Speaker 1: Like the experience of itself tends to change minds and
Speaker 1: change hearts a bit. Will you guys share your first
Speaker 1: hunting successful hunting experience when you guys had together? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: because you guys doubled up, right, Yeah, do you want
Speaker 1: to tell it? I mean you can start it. I
Speaker 1: might correct you. Okay, So so forget the part where
Speaker 1: your your battery died either. Okay. So this is how
Speaker 1: it happened. So we had gotten sort of a tip
Speaker 1: from Dan of like a good spot to go to
Speaker 1: in Montana. We're not going to say where, um and anyway,
Speaker 1: it's to be like okay, like we're totally gonna do this.
Speaker 1: We woke up super super early, like it must have
Speaker 1: been three in the morning, three or four in the morning,
Speaker 1: and you know, we went to the gas station got gas.
Speaker 1: First of all, both of us are kidded out in
Speaker 1: like full camo and stuff. When I remember we go
Speaker 1: in and there's these dudes who are also probably hunting
Speaker 1: to you know, and like, I don't know about you,
Speaker 1: but I just felt like they're just giving us this
Speaker 1: looks like first light and I don't know what else.
Speaker 1: And then like the same thing with me and like
Speaker 1: are like because orange and then she had Tom's on
Speaker 1: her feet. The two guys are just looking at us,
Speaker 1: just like Tom's shoes, you know, like the the they
Speaker 1: give one like you buy one, and then they give
Speaker 1: a pair to like a slipper. Slipper. Yeah, they're just
Speaker 1: like slipper. Yeah yeah, just slide on yeah yeah yeah, slippers.
Speaker 1: So it was because like I wasn't ready to put
Speaker 1: my boots on or anything like that. You know, it
Speaker 1: so important to the story. That's true. It's true. Also,
Speaker 1: we were listening to like Adele or Beyonce on a
Speaker 1: trip because like we're probably the only hunters listening there's
Speaker 1: had just come out, and we were like groll into it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's great. Um. Anyway, yeah, so that was
Speaker 1: an interesting part. But so anyway, we we drive out
Speaker 1: there and we get out there and you know you
Speaker 1: have to like sign in or whatever, and we get
Speaker 1: out there and we go to where Dan houses to go,
Speaker 1: and they're it's just like probably twenty you know, does
Speaker 1: just running across this field. And we both had we
Speaker 1: had a buck tag and a doe tag and it
Speaker 1: could be either for either male or female white tail
Speaker 1: or a male mule deer. And we had the guide
Speaker 1: book with us. But we left in the car. We
Speaker 1: were like we both like got like super like I mean,
Speaker 1: must beend like buck fever. You know. We were just like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, my gosh, my gosh, so were gotten
Speaker 1: the back, you know, like put our boots on, got
Speaker 1: our got our rifles and like kind of like you know,
Speaker 1: sort of not really sprinting. We weren't running with guns,
Speaker 1: but we were walking very quickly. Um, and we get
Speaker 1: out there and like just so many them and like
Speaker 1: we have so many opportunities, and like something in my
Speaker 1: head was like wait a minute, how do you know
Speaker 1: if they're mule deer or white tail, Like what's the difference.
Speaker 1: And we're both like like they're white child, and then
Speaker 1: we're yeah, and we just so yeah, so like we
Speaker 1: just we couldn't. We just didn't know, and we were
Speaker 1: trying to get like service on our phone and and
Speaker 1: the guidebook was back in the car, so we're like
Speaker 1: like do we do we risk it? Like no, So
Speaker 1: we ran back to the car and like looking through
Speaker 1: the guidebook looking like on the internet, and just we're
Speaker 1: just like, Okay, they're definitely white tail, Like they don't
Speaker 1: have the ropey tail and they don't you know, bound
Speaker 1: the same way as mule deer. So we went back
Speaker 1: out there and like, they're all just crossing this this
Speaker 1: fence that private into private land where we can no
Speaker 1: longer hunt. And then maybe they're like maybe we had
Speaker 1: like maybe one or two other opportunities, but it was
Speaker 1: just too rushed and there was no way it was
Speaker 1: going to happen. So we were just like crap. So
Speaker 1: we knew that later in the afternoon that they would
Speaker 1: probably all come back over that fence and stuff, but
Speaker 1: we literally just sat out there all day waiting. Had
Speaker 1: we known ahead of time, but and actually I think
Speaker 1: we like at some point we were sitting in your
Speaker 1: car for a while and we're like, why don't we
Speaker 1: just go walk around or something. So we walked around
Speaker 1: and spook some deer, but we had like no idea
Speaker 1: where they went or where they were going and what
Speaker 1: we're doing. Um, but anyway, yeah, so then you know,
Speaker 1: later we we texted Dan. He was like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: Sean and I want to come come out, and but
Speaker 1: we hunted in different spots and we were like, you know,
Speaker 1: we kind of want to favor this one spot where
Speaker 1: we had been hanging out because we had seen them
Speaker 1: all go down the hill, and we saw a ton
Speaker 1: of tracks towards the rivers. We figured they'd be coming
Speaker 1: back up the same direction at night. Yeah, so um,
Speaker 1: so yeah, that afternoon sure enough, like we saw them
Speaker 1: on the private land and they just kept coming closer
Speaker 1: and closer and closer. And I had my eyes on
Speaker 1: this group that was like, you know, I know, directly
Speaker 1: in front of us. But then Andy was like, whoa
Speaker 1: look over here, and so to the left there were
Speaker 1: like three deer just kind of all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: like almost like running towards us. So we sat We're
Speaker 1: basically sitting out in the open but just below them
Speaker 1: the line of the hill, so we weren't skyline or anything,
Speaker 1: but we were kind of out in the open um.
Speaker 1: And yeah, they're like running up and me like okay,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, you know, like this is this is it,
Speaker 1: this is it, this is it. And we both set
Speaker 1: up on our packs and you know, like who's gonna
Speaker 1: shoot first? And you're like you shoot first, like okay,
Speaker 1: so um, we just waited and waited, wait until they
Speaker 1: hopped the fence, and I waited for the first one
Speaker 1: to take maybe like ten steps or so and just
Speaker 1: isn't about to shoot, and he's like, it's a buck.
Speaker 1: But I mean I had, you know, and I you know,
Speaker 1: beginner's mistake. I should have confirmed for sure before I shot,
Speaker 1: you know, but very luckily, like I had, both tags
Speaker 1: were both So I shot and it didn't. It stopped
Speaker 1: sort of for like a second, and then it kept walking.
Speaker 1: So I got nervous, and so I shot it again,
Speaker 1: and then it maybe took two steps and then dropped.
Speaker 1: And then the two other ones who were right that
Speaker 1: were right behind it were they're like very hesitant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were confused, like they didn't run away right way.
Speaker 1: And so I was like any Annie, like take a shot,
Speaker 1: take a shot. And we're both kind of just like
Speaker 1: what do we do? Like do we go to my
Speaker 1: deer now? Like you know what I mean? We were
Speaker 1: just very turned back around. They turned around and ran
Speaker 1: back over the fence, but then they hopped over two
Speaker 1: fences and then they stopped and they turned around and
Speaker 1: Britain was like, let's just maybe we should just wait
Speaker 1: here for a minute. I was like, really, okay, So
Speaker 1: we waited for like ten more minutes. Sure enough, they
Speaker 1: totally forgot what had happened, and they came back the
Speaker 1: exact same way. They came back the exact same way.
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't hear that part of this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so so yeah, they literally just came back across as
Speaker 1: if nothing had really happened. And so it was basically
Speaker 1: like Annie was set up and just waiting for one
Speaker 1: of them to stop, and one of them did. I
Speaker 1: can't remember for the first or second one kept switching
Speaker 1: between which one I was getting shot, but whichever when
Speaker 1: you chose, like, it dropped instantly, maybe like ten ft
Speaker 1: from my dear that I shot, and then we were
Speaker 1: just like it was so crazy. Um. And then yeah,
Speaker 1: and then we we had a little bit went over
Speaker 1: to them, and um, we pretty much butchered them. I mean,
Speaker 1: Dan Sean helped a little bit, and um, but we
Speaker 1: we you know, gutted them pretty much for the most
Speaker 1: part and quartered them out there with Dan and Shawn's help,
Speaker 1: and then we butchered the whole things ourselves. Car died
Speaker 1: because I shouldn't gloss over that my car to use
Speaker 1: the headlights because it was dark, and then my car died,
Speaker 1: so car Bettery died after Dan and Sean left. So
Speaker 1: we waited for your roommate to come get us. Celebratory
Speaker 1: Dear dance was and then we spent eight hours the
Speaker 1: next day completely butchering both Dear all ourselves, all with
Speaker 1: the help of the guide book. Yeah, the first couple
Speaker 1: of hours we're like, oh, this is the song. We
Speaker 1: were like dancing and singing or whatever. And then by
Speaker 1: like maybe like three or four hours and we were
Speaker 1: just like like dead silent, and then like the last
Speaker 1: couple of hours we both had like very sharp knives
Speaker 1: in our hands, just like looking at each other like
Speaker 1: my stabut. I don't know if I do this. It
Speaker 1: was really impressive. It was impressive to be out there.
Speaker 1: You know. I got out there and literally it wasn't
Speaker 1: more than half an hour after I hiked out farther
Speaker 1: past where you guys were, and I heard one shot.
Speaker 1: A little bit later heard a second shot. You know,
Speaker 1: I figured it was you guys. I didn't I didn't
Speaker 1: see anybody else, but you know, I came back into
Speaker 1: Dear and I was like, what the hell. It's really impressive.
Speaker 1: It was impressive. But I'll tell you, even if you
Speaker 1: like read Steve skuybook and you watch YouTube videos a
Speaker 1: second that thing is dead and you're like okay, like
Speaker 1: now I have to do this. Like I had no idea,
Speaker 1: Like I had forgotten everything with how to you know,
Speaker 1: got it and all that stuff. We did it. How
Speaker 1: was that process? You know, I'm like a very squeamish
Speaker 1: person and I hate the sight of blood. I passed
Speaker 1: out getting shots and like getting my blood drawn and stuff,
Speaker 1: and and I was really concerned that I was going
Speaker 1: to have a similar experience like whenever I first look
Speaker 1: at it my first year, and like, no, not even
Speaker 1: a single feeling. It was it was like very like automatic,
Speaker 1: like okay, this is what I have to do now,
Speaker 1: Like there was no part of me felt sick or
Speaker 1: disgusted at all. Um. I think the one time that
Speaker 1: I did feel slightly disgusted was actually in Wisconsin. I
Speaker 1: actually nicked the stomach when I was like and that
Speaker 1: was just like, well the smell unholy. But other than that, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like no part of me at all that felt
Speaker 1: like you had to go to work, like I didn't
Speaker 1: have any time to think about it or feel bad
Speaker 1: about it or be grossed out. I was a little
Speaker 1: bit grossed out, like cutting the windpipe, which I made
Speaker 1: maybe Brittany do for me part. You're just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I do this and I gotta do it like now. Totally.
Speaker 1: It was gnarly. It does become work pretty much right
Speaker 1: after that thing falls over dead. Yeah, it's gonna anti
Speaker 1: climactic a lot of ways, for sure. Nicole. You had
Speaker 1: a couple of days in the feel, but no no luck.
Speaker 1: You know, you said you said you had a shot
Speaker 1: and took a shot. I missed. Still though you you
Speaker 1: spent two days or more in the field. Um, I
Speaker 1: went two days deer hunting by myself and then one
Speaker 1: day with you, right, so three days and you got
Speaker 1: a shot in three days. So that two opportunities three
Speaker 1: days because there was the deer that um leannest took
Speaker 1: me out one morning. It was actually the same honey
Speaker 1: hole the Fibro and Nanny killed their deer on. And um,
Speaker 1: we just hadn't really seen any deer close by. And
Speaker 1: I was kind of walking behind you and I'm five
Speaker 1: six and you're what like six six, and um, so
Speaker 1: we were walking back to the truck and then you
Speaker 1: walked over to that little like knob and then you
Speaker 1: just said, shoot that deer. But I was behind you
Speaker 1: and shorter than you, so I didn't I hadn't even
Speaker 1: seen the deer yet. But then I got down and
Speaker 1: put my crosshairs on it. Um, but I just couldn't. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it was just it was such an
Speaker 1: overwhelming feeling. Just I mean, it's a big difference to
Speaker 1: go from shooting at the range and looking through your
Speaker 1: crosshairs to like having like a live animal in your crosshairs.
Speaker 1: So that was like a crazy feeling. Um. And then
Speaker 1: after that you figured out that my scope was on
Speaker 1: full magnification and so um that was good to know.
Speaker 1: And then um, when I went out by myself, it
Speaker 1: was around that same area, which is like a pretty
Speaker 1: easy hunting white tail area, and um, the opportunity that
Speaker 1: I ended up getting, I had actually gone early in
Speaker 1: the morning, and it's a really high pressure area. So
Speaker 1: if you don't get there first. Um, you know, like
Speaker 1: the spot that I went to you for that morning, Like,
Speaker 1: I opened the door to my car and a shot
Speaker 1: rang out, But um, I had woken up early enough.
Speaker 1: I just realized I didn't have any hunter orange, so
Speaker 1: I needed to go to like a gas station and
Speaker 1: find one, and and luckily I did. But um, it
Speaker 1: just put me behind. I think that if I had
Speaker 1: remembered that point, then I would have made it there first.
Speaker 1: But um, I actually went and got breakfast somewhere, and
Speaker 1: then I decided, like when I came back, like you
Speaker 1: could just tell like all the deer were just moving
Speaker 1: around anyway, Like I think they were just really disrupted
Speaker 1: because it was so high pressure and I was just
Speaker 1: seeing deer everywhere and it was like, you know, eleven
Speaker 1: thirty in the morning, and I was like, well, I mean,
Speaker 1: what are the chances that the deer are going to
Speaker 1: go back when you know, kind of break that like
Speaker 1: crepuscular routine that they're having, like probably a pretty high chance,
Speaker 1: like they're constantly being bumped and moved around. Um, So
Speaker 1: it was funny. I actually went to a different spot
Speaker 1: I will I went one of those days, I went
Speaker 1: um to about seven different spots just to check them out.
Speaker 1: So I kind of drove UM. I found like some
Speaker 1: weird elk spots where you could shoot elk from the road,
Speaker 1: and it was like, I don't know, that was actually
Speaker 1: a little bit disturbing. And then um, just because there
Speaker 1: were people that were just blatantly breaking the rules. They
Speaker 1: were like driving out to pick up there at carcasses
Speaker 1: they were you know, on people's black management land and um,
Speaker 1: you know, people drinking a shipload of beer and you know,
Speaker 1: just doing things that I'm like, Okay, well that's not
Speaker 1: not really management for those that you don't know as
Speaker 1: a program in Montana where it's like between private land
Speaker 1: holders and the game fish, and they basically set up
Speaker 1: a system where you can, like Brittany was talking about
Speaker 1: signing in, you're just signed into these properties, sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: months ahead of time, sometimes just the morning of. And
Speaker 1: then there are special rules so that you know, you
Speaker 1: you you know, to respect the property. And so one
Speaker 1: of the big things is like some of these propertis
Speaker 1: you actually can't leave animal parts at all and um,
Speaker 1: which you can't definitely can't drive out on the agg
Speaker 1: fields and you and people were doing that, and people
Speaker 1: were doing that. And then when I was driving on
Speaker 1: that particular road where you could hunt elk, there were
Speaker 1: like organs just on the road, like people just like
Speaker 1: left them out there. And so it was just it
Speaker 1: was kind of a weird scenario for me to see. Um,
Speaker 1: but I figured out like where the white tail places where,
Speaker 1: and that's where I went back and Um, so I
Speaker 1: actually went to this little area where there was like
Speaker 1: a little draw and as I was driving back from
Speaker 1: that breakfast, like coming back, Um, it was kind of
Speaker 1: near one of the sign in boxes. Well too, deer
Speaker 1: went from property that I couldn't hunt on to property
Speaker 1: or I could hunt on, like right in front of
Speaker 1: my car. So, um, I just immediately pulled up, parked,
Speaker 1: started getting my gear together and um that was actually
Speaker 1: when the guy pulled it next to me. So I'm
Speaker 1: by myself, I have my border calling in the car.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just very like yoga pants and a sweatshirt
Speaker 1: and surrells. Like I've definitely not decked out in camo.
Speaker 1: Um and like many hunters aren't. Yeah, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: like I keep these parts, I like to keep it casual.
Speaker 1: Um what do you mean by that? Around these parts
Speaker 1: people on here don't wear a camera. Oh yeah, and
Speaker 1: I think, well, these parts being like, I feel like
Speaker 1: it's more I don't trying to think where there's more
Speaker 1: heavily cameo clad folks. Um, there definitely are a lot
Speaker 1: of embozement you know that put a lot of effort
Speaker 1: into you know, high quality camouflage. But I feel like
Speaker 1: here and like where I grew up in Michigan and Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of the guys I grew up hunt with,
Speaker 1: like didn't wear any camouflage. It was like blue jeans, carhards,
Speaker 1: red flannel, you know where your orange, you know, especially
Speaker 1: rifle hunt like it's not really necessary. They look like
Speaker 1: the original hipsters and all their pictures car haar pants
Speaker 1: and buffalo clad shirts. It's that big like red black plaid.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm right, did her? You along a little bit?
Speaker 1: But you got an opportunity, So I got an opportunity.
Speaker 1: Shot over over his or her back? Yeah? What my hook?
Speaker 1: You're hooked. I'm hooked. Yeah, I'm excited to go back.
Speaker 1: And um, I already bought my licenses and I'm putting
Speaker 1: in for some tags. And that's been a fun process.
Speaker 1: You got a turkey hunt this year. I put in
Speaker 1: for a turkey tags. We'll see if I get one.
Speaker 1: But I also bought an over the counter turkey tag.
Speaker 1: Same so excited. Six bucks and he's shaking her head.
Speaker 1: You can't see he's not interested in turkey hunting. But
Speaker 1: I just give it time, you know, like with the
Speaker 1: whole hunting thing in general. You know, she didn't she
Speaker 1: came around eventually, some maybe she should come around. So
Speaker 1: would you at least go with Brittany to see what
Speaker 1: it's all about. Maybe I don't know. It just doesn't
Speaker 1: I don't get it. What don't you get I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just don't. Everyone's so into it. These guys are
Speaker 1: so into it. I just don't. I've never even done it.
Speaker 1: But it's like, and I can see that a little bit,
Speaker 1: like it's not like this just watching it doesn't seem
Speaker 1: super exciting, but like their excitement. Plus, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's just like a different type of hunting. Like to me,
Speaker 1: that's I just want to try every type of hunt,
Speaker 1: every type of understand I was there for five years
Speaker 1: as all my friends around me were just like, you know, ELK,
Speaker 1: yeah that's cool. But dude, Turkey, let me tell you, man, like,
Speaker 1: how come you're not coming with us in April? And
Speaker 1: eventually I just you know, you know, I figured it out.
Speaker 1: I think you will too. You'll come with us this spring.
Speaker 1: It'll be it'll be yeah, you'll come back to the
Speaker 1: office and be like, what's up, and you'll just answer
Speaker 1: with you can't wear you can't wear all your hot
Speaker 1: pink that you wear to work every day though you're like, no, no,
Speaker 1: I want to go then all right, So those stories
Speaker 1: you guys just described, they were interesting, but to me
Speaker 1: real looking at it from my uh just say, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, with with no filter, you know, or no.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say here, dam just a very
Speaker 1: like like I don't know what. Um No, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna know. I'm not trying to get out of offending you. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's uh, the stories themselves really aren't there. It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter that you guys are females, I guess up
Speaker 1: to this point, it's like it's really their stories of
Speaker 1: inexperienced and you know, beginner hunters, you know, and Dan
Speaker 1: and I did it many many years ago, plenty of people.
Speaker 1: I was leading up to this podcast, I was thinking
Speaker 1: a lot about how my brother got into it, you know,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I mentored a lot my brother
Speaker 1: a lot. In the last five years, I'm getting into
Speaker 1: hunting the same way I have a lot with Britney brothers.
Speaker 1: And really it's I don't know if there's been any
Speaker 1: differences whatsoever. I mean, it's been very very similar, you know,
Speaker 1: the same kind of amount of time and they're going
Speaker 1: to the range. And I think that like the the
Speaker 1: you know, the bell curve of of learning has been
Speaker 1: very similar between the two of you guys too. You
Speaker 1: know it took him. The first thing that jumped out
Speaker 1: of me with your all your stories is that all
Speaker 1: of you whent On did it on your own this year,
Speaker 1: which I think would be interesting to look at statistics
Speaker 1: of men or women hunters to see how many people
Speaker 1: have the balls or ovaries to go out and really
Speaker 1: honest to go do it like, because that's one of
Speaker 1: the biggest blocks to getting into hunting for anybody is
Speaker 1: not having a mentor or not having people to take you.
Speaker 1: And that's what people always talk about nobody. There's nobody
Speaker 1: to take me or show. You all did it on
Speaker 1: your own, which is super cool, super super cool. Well,
Speaker 1: I think like the door was open for us, Like
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have gotten hunting by my Like it's just
Speaker 1: sort of like um taking the first step, like you
Speaker 1: honest took me out that one day, and then after
Speaker 1: that I was like, Okay, I can't go do this,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's just having it's just having somebody's
Speaker 1: vote of confidence in a way that they're like just
Speaker 1: m kind of path in the book. Literally, I guess
Speaker 1: I think Annie doesn't want hunt turkeys because it's she
Speaker 1: doesn't think it's a womanly activity. She thinks that it
Speaker 1: is less womanly. I'm usually concerned about how womanly the
Speaker 1: activities I'm doing are, and I'm just like, oh, does
Speaker 1: this womanly? Okay, I'll do it. I would say that's
Speaker 1: probably the biggest concern for all three of us. We're
Speaker 1: all very feminine, and I don't actually wear all pink black.
Speaker 1: Now that you guys have made that state thing that
Speaker 1: Stafford had, that introduction to hunting, you pretty much all
Speaker 1: consider yourself as hunters. Any do I consider myself? I don't.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I kind of feel like a poser if
Speaker 1: I if I was saying that just because I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's been like eight months since I even hunted, doesn't
Speaker 1: I make you a hunter? Is going skiing wants to
Speaker 1: make you a skier? No? No, I've not gone skiing
Speaker 1: probably ten times, and I consider myself a skier. Now
Speaker 1: you identify as a skier, and like some part of me, yeah,
Speaker 1: like along with all the other things that I do.
Speaker 1: You know, I think if you have intent to learn
Speaker 1: something and I continue to it to do it, then
Speaker 1: I think that you can attach a part of yourself
Speaker 1: to that identity. Like, um, I think that I might
Speaker 1: tell people I'm a hunter, but I'll be like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm a new hunter. I like, I still haven't killed something.
Speaker 1: But I don't think that necessarily like takes a kill
Speaker 1: to like make you a hunter, you know, because hunting
Speaker 1: isn't about killing action, and nor does the amount of
Speaker 1: time you know, spent doing it really make you a
Speaker 1: hunter either, because there's an amazing amount of hunters out
Speaker 1: there that hunt two or three days every year and
Speaker 1: that's it, and they certainly identify as a hunter. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you could say like I'm a beginner hunter twice maybe, Okay,
Speaker 1: so we're close. So my question is, then, has that
Speaker 1: changed your view a lot of things but mostly just
Speaker 1: like overall, like you're just general view of life now
Speaker 1: that you're like a hunter, do you feel like you
Speaker 1: just view Is there any or anything in particularly you
Speaker 1: can point out you viewed differently now as a hunter? Oh,
Speaker 1: I mean a hund. Food? Yeah, I think food is
Speaker 1: like the biggest thing I mean one, like I haven't
Speaker 1: gone to a grocery store to buy meat at all,
Speaker 1: but whenever I do, like look at meat and the
Speaker 1: meat that I've like again, like any and I both
Speaker 1: butchered our deer from the whole animal down to like
Speaker 1: individually packaged pieces, and it's like, I know exactly like
Speaker 1: what part of that animal, like the meat that I'm eating,
Speaker 1: and when I go out to the restaurant, I think
Speaker 1: about the same thing. And I've been watching a lot
Speaker 1: of like Netflix food areas and reading a lot about
Speaker 1: you know, just where our food comes from lately. Um
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's just so fascinating now that I that
Speaker 1: I have done the whole experience from field to table,
Speaker 1: Like that's just totally life changing for me. Before uh well,
Speaker 1: I you know, mostly lived in big cities. Um So
Speaker 1: in New York, I had a tomato plant and I
Speaker 1: had some herbs. So sure I had a little guarded
Speaker 1: but like and that was so rewarding, like to have
Speaker 1: start from like the you know, little tomato seeds and
Speaker 1: then to eat the little tomatoes that I got. I mean,
Speaker 1: they weren't great tasting, by the way, They're terrible, but um,
Speaker 1: but that was still like super rewarding. I was so
Speaker 1: excited about that. UM. So I guess I have had
Speaker 1: that same like sense a little bit. UM. I'm sure
Speaker 1: in like a larger scale, gardening is um a lot
Speaker 1: more tasking then buying some seeds and putting them in
Speaker 1: a pot and putting them in my window. UM. But
Speaker 1: I don't know. Hunting is to me, it's different because
Speaker 1: you're actually like killing something and then dealing with a
Speaker 1: lot of blood and guts and UM yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, that's definitely been the biggest life changing part.
Speaker 1: I think for me, like changed my experience with the land,
Speaker 1: like and I think that that's really where it came from.
Speaker 1: Like it came from um doing a lot of hiking
Speaker 1: around the state, by myself deciding I was going to
Speaker 1: do this backpacking trip, by myself going down into the
Speaker 1: wind rivers, hiking in Yellowstone, backpacking Yellowstone, by myself backpacking
Speaker 1: in the beaver Head, like where I saw the elk Um.
Speaker 1: I think it just changes the way that you look
Speaker 1: at the land and like your interaction with animals, and
Speaker 1: the thing that I thought while I was on the
Speaker 1: trail was it would be way more fun to be
Speaker 1: like going and like paying attention to animal behavior and
Speaker 1: being able to know like how are these animals like moving,
Speaker 1: like where are they in the daytime? Where are they
Speaker 1: at night? And um, And probably a little bit of
Speaker 1: that goes back to just my experience with being riding
Speaker 1: horses my whole life and like really paying attention to
Speaker 1: their behavior, like I always loved her behavior and um,
Speaker 1: learning all of those dynamics. Um. And when I sit
Speaker 1: and watch a herd of elk, I mean you see
Speaker 1: all a lot of those same interactions. So I like
Speaker 1: it from that kind of behavioral side, and I like
Speaker 1: it from this side of hiking and being in new
Speaker 1: places and being in places that other people aren't going.
Speaker 1: Like that's really what makes me excited about it. You know,
Speaker 1: I noticed too before any go sorry, is like from
Speaker 1: from the first meat Eat episode that we did at
Speaker 1: the cook one, like sitting there and glassing with Steve
Speaker 1: and Janas and all those guys, and they'd be like,
Speaker 1: there's there's one, there's one, there's a deer. I was
Speaker 1: just like, I have no idea what you guys are
Speaker 1: looking at. Now. I feel like I drive around and
Speaker 1: I'm just like, there's a deer. There's an antelope, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? I see them like really really well,
Speaker 1: and like I pointed out to this to the My
Speaker 1: family was just in town over Christmas when we were
Speaker 1: driving around and I would point them out and they're like,
Speaker 1: how in the world did you see that? And like
Speaker 1: I have no Like I think it just comes from
Speaker 1: developing exactly. Yeah, but so that was yeah again, But
Speaker 1: it's like that connection to land that I really I
Speaker 1: really love. Get your farm life a game. How about
Speaker 1: relationship between men and women now that you guys are hunters?
Speaker 1: Has that changed at all? Like dating? Like do you
Speaker 1: guys look at guys differently or like maybe judge a
Speaker 1: guy whether he's a hunter or not. Um. Well, again,
Speaker 1: like having having lived in big cities for so long,
Speaker 1: it's like not something that you would find and really
Speaker 1: in a in somebody there. But now that I moved
Speaker 1: to Bozeman, I mean, I don't know, it's I guess
Speaker 1: it's um it's definitely an attractive actor about somebody if
Speaker 1: I'm like interest in dating them, whether or not they hunt.
Speaker 1: But it's not like it's not like a deal breaker.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's cool too. Then that just the
Speaker 1: idea of like maybe you know, you can go hunting
Speaker 1: with this person and share this like fun experience and
Speaker 1: meaningful experience that you both enjoy. But it's not it's
Speaker 1: not make or break gentlemen. So if you're listening, put
Speaker 1: the phone number down in the notes. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think the funny thing with that is like, um, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I like viewing viewing it for more of
Speaker 1: a bird's eye rather than like personal experiences that like
Speaker 1: when you're on online dating sites and like you're scrolling
Speaker 1: through guys. I mean, if the first picture that you
Speaker 1: have in your Tinder profile is you with like a
Speaker 1: giant bloody deer, I mean, even if someone who wants
Speaker 1: like I'm like, what are you thinking? Like what are
Speaker 1: you doing? Um? And I mean it's I think that
Speaker 1: it's great that like, um, people attach so much of
Speaker 1: themselves with this identity. UM. But I've also talked to
Speaker 1: some guys that I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, like
Speaker 1: I went on my first white tail hunt and like
Speaker 1: kind of tell them the story and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's cute, you know what I mean, And and I
Speaker 1: find that like kind of demeaning. So uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that it takes. I think it takes a
Speaker 1: certain kind of guy to be around, um, like self
Speaker 1: starting women. And I would say all three of us
Speaker 1: are self self starters, you know, like we're all going
Speaker 1: to go out and do things and it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: whether we're a girl, and it doesn't and we don't
Speaker 1: do it because of a boyfriend that's like, oh, come
Speaker 1: on a hunt with me, you know. Um, And I
Speaker 1: think that that's actually like really different. I think that
Speaker 1: there's something really outside of the box about that. But
Speaker 1: I mean to that effect, like I would I personally
Speaker 1: would rather date somebody who's going to go on these
Speaker 1: adventurers and like want to be a part of it.
Speaker 1: But I was raised to step up to the table
Speaker 1: um and think that I had in an equal presence
Speaker 1: there Um. I don't know. I think that I think
Speaker 1: that factors into dating, and I think there are a
Speaker 1: lot of people that aren't used to that. I was
Speaker 1: just gonna say, just with the you know, tender online
Speaker 1: dating profiles instead of seeing dudes with like this is
Speaker 1: just a suggestion to any guy who's a hunter and
Speaker 1: on online dating, like don't show your picture of your
Speaker 1: big black but you should show a picture of you
Speaker 1: like cooking some delicious meal because it's like, okay, you
Speaker 1: can cook for me. You hunt and you cook done
Speaker 1: salts and the bigger the fish, like we get it,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're presenting us with the fish, like
Speaker 1: we're taking all of that literally, so thanks, thanks for that. Okay,
Speaker 1: profiles guys, I mean, but there's a lot of fly
Speaker 1: fishermen out here, so like it's literally like just a
Speaker 1: dude like presenting. Like there's there's two kinds. There's like
Speaker 1: the big toad that they got there, or there's like
Speaker 1: the funny guy who holds up like the like fucking mint.
Speaker 1: You know, it's, um, it's funny. Like there are just
Speaker 1: a lot of like funny things. And I am and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, well, I think what they say about big
Speaker 1: fish is big pan. Well, if you're eating fish, if
Speaker 1: we're eating fish, you do get more made for you
Speaker 1: with the ten pounder for the five pounders. So I
Speaker 1: think that it's nice that guys are trying to be providers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're to have one here that had experience with the
Speaker 1: with the female, uh you know equivalent you know, with
Speaker 1: the with the tinder and the like the female that's
Speaker 1: like out there doing that same thing, but we don't unfortunately.
Speaker 1: You mean an example of a woman who's got a
Speaker 1: fish on her profile, yeah, or a dead animal or
Speaker 1: you know whatever. You know, so we could just speak
Speaker 1: to the other side of that. But the pictures I
Speaker 1: have a picture of me, like shooting a clay on mine.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I'd rather have somebody like
Speaker 1: I know that I am like passionate about going out
Speaker 1: and just doing fun stuff like you three are representative
Speaker 1: of what I think is a very important portion of
Speaker 1: the hunting public at this point in time, which is
Speaker 1: the women are the fastest growing I guess what demographic
Speaker 1: within the hunting community right now. And the other big
Speaker 1: statistic that jumps out of me, and this comes from
Speaker 1: Random Williams, who you guys did a podcast with, But
Speaker 1: the other major major factor in getting both hunting approval
Speaker 1: and converse to people start hunting is food. And every
Speaker 1: all of you mentioned that as your first thing. So
Speaker 1: I think you kind of like right in the sweet
Speaker 1: spot of where growth and the hunting industry and the
Speaker 1: acceptance of hunting and a larger cultural I mean, you're
Speaker 1: kind of it, you know, You're you're right there which
Speaker 1: is interesting, super interesting. Yeah, and I think that Raindall
Speaker 1: actually helped me out and got me a bunch of
Speaker 1: interesting stats for this podcast. And you know, you guys
Speaker 1: all mentioned foods like a major motivator, you know. And
Speaker 1: he was telling me about how, you know, women are
Speaker 1: in surveys twice as likely to say that they hunt
Speaker 1: for meat, you know, um as compared to men, you know,
Speaker 1: which is very very interesting to me. You know why
Speaker 1: that is? You know, you guys like just suck right
Speaker 1: towards that, you know, um, and it's up to almost
Speaker 1: eleven now our female hunters, so one out of Yah,
Speaker 1: it's amazing for meat eat viewers. That's awesome. Sounds really cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's way cool. That makes me proud. Um. Moving on,
Speaker 1: we really haven't gotten to anything really sticky yet. I'm
Speaker 1: ready yesterday in this morning. I just I want to
Speaker 1: be well informed. What's up with the uh so you
Speaker 1: guys are not hunters and how you're portrayed um in
Speaker 1: the media, and do you appreciate how you're like like
Speaker 1: the way that you're being targeted or you know, how
Speaker 1: you know, ads are geared towards you in the current
Speaker 1: hunting media. And then like the current representation of the
Speaker 1: female hunter on TV. I don't watch a lot of
Speaker 1: hunting TV myself, but you just kind of see what's
Speaker 1: out there on the internet, you know, and definitely who
Speaker 1: I see is usually not who I'm here talking to
Speaker 1: with right now. Yeah, I just want to get you
Speaker 1: guys to take a look on that. I don't have
Speaker 1: a ton I also don't watch alat of television or
Speaker 1: I should maybe watch more, but I have like a
Speaker 1: very clear image of kind of what that person is,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, it's kind of I don't know
Speaker 1: if you should talk about this more like those the
Speaker 1: Barbie Hunter. Yeah, Like, yeah, I think two things that
Speaker 1: bother me most and they probably bother you guys too.
Speaker 1: Are one the word huntress, Yeah, and to what's when
Speaker 1: I think of a huntress, I think of like a
Speaker 1: you know, bimboie sexy sexual about it? Yeah, huntress who's
Speaker 1: not there, who's not there for herself? Who's there to
Speaker 1: like be sexy? Two men, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And to shrink it and pink it like that is
Speaker 1: like the like that's like the marketing slogan are women's
Speaker 1: hunting clothing and gear? It's yeah, it's discussing. I mean
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, the pink is not disgusting, but like,
Speaker 1: but the fact that it represents, like that's supposed to
Speaker 1: represent like women hunters, Like I don't see the value
Speaker 1: of pink at all in the field, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like I would rather just wear camo and
Speaker 1: then like hunter or whatever, I need to wear. Pink
Speaker 1: is extraneous to me. And um, I mean I get
Speaker 1: the shrinket thing obviously, like we're smaller generally than than dudes.
Speaker 1: But um, but yeah, I just don't like that. It's
Speaker 1: that's and it's and it's not just hunting. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, marketing to women across the board in in
Speaker 1: any thing, you know, any consumer item, but of the
Speaker 1: whole problem, right totally. Um, But that to me, between
Speaker 1: the sex stup you know, Barbie hunting and the pink
Speaker 1: and you know, all that kind of stuff, Like I
Speaker 1: don't want to be I don't want to be marketed
Speaker 1: that way. Like what's interesting to me is, um is
Speaker 1: not that. And I don't want to name names of
Speaker 1: like women who do that in the hunting media because
Speaker 1: we already know who we're talking about. For the most part,
Speaker 1: but what I think is, um, what I do like
Speaker 1: in the media is um, you know, people like uh,
Speaker 1: Jennifer Lawrence and um, Hunger Games, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: or like Brave in the Disney film, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like those are like just different representative different
Speaker 1: representations of women hunters. Um. And you know, obviously Hungry
Speaker 1: Games isn't all about hunting but hunting humans mostly the
Speaker 1: most dangerous game. But um, but like I like those
Speaker 1: resist not really I mean no more than I mean
Speaker 1: they didn't hire me to start in it. But you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, that's not really she's she's you know,
Speaker 1: like she's not wearing anything that's like revealing or anything
Speaker 1: like that. And not to say that women shouldn't wear
Speaker 1: those kinds of clipe. Women can wear whatever they want.
Speaker 1: But I don't think within hunting media, um specifically, and
Speaker 1: I mean being in social um for meat Eater, I
Speaker 1: definitely like we follow a lot of different accounts and UM,
Speaker 1: like definitely like part of what I do is like
Speaker 1: looking into media and finding out what trends are, and um,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of I think really cool and
Speaker 1: interesting female hunters. I mean, I've always liked Rachel Tila.
Speaker 1: I think that she is really interesting. Um, she's really
Speaker 1: like the one that stands out to me personally. But
Speaker 1: I think, like what I think what's happened in like
Speaker 1: a lot of like like Instagram and um Facebook, is
Speaker 1: that it becomes like the this like brigade of selfies.
Speaker 1: Like it becomes a girl who's like rifle hunting in
Speaker 1: camo with paint on her face. And you know, I know,
Speaker 1: um from a basic hunting background that that's probably like
Speaker 1: not necessary. So I mean, I think that there are
Speaker 1: a lot of and I have a real problem people
Speaker 1: are like, oh, like they need to show real women.
Speaker 1: Like I believe that these women are real women. They're
Speaker 1: just they're just playing to their sexuality. And I think
Speaker 1: that that sells like sex cells. But I, um, I
Speaker 1: don't know, it would be nice to have like more
Speaker 1: visible hunting role models for like your girls growing up
Speaker 1: that are like thoughtful and um, not narcissistic. And and
Speaker 1: I think that like that's really the key is that
Speaker 1: I think that when you look at a lot of
Speaker 1: those profiles are kind of like these want to be
Speaker 1: um celebrities or you know, even the people that are
Speaker 1: like minor celebrities. I think some of them are good
Speaker 1: role models, but I think that, um, like when I'm
Speaker 1: looking at forty five selfies in a row, like I've
Speaker 1: learned nothing and I don't know maybe how to do
Speaker 1: your makeup? Yeah, and then yeah, then it's not about
Speaker 1: hunting and it's not about like the message that your
Speaker 1: trade being like a sex kitten look at me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: um yeah. I mean I think my personal take on
Speaker 1: like women, role models and mentors is that, you know,
Speaker 1: like whatever way you look at it, like, okay, so
Speaker 1: hunting is a sub subculture like it may have at
Speaker 1: one point then you know, the main culture in our society,
Speaker 1: but now it's it's decreasing and now so if I
Speaker 1: would consider it like a subculture, and I think anybody
Speaker 1: who participates in a subculture of any kind becomes an
Speaker 1: ambassador for that subculture. And I just when I think
Speaker 1: about what I look for in a role model, or
Speaker 1: I think role model maybe puts like too much pressure
Speaker 1: on it, but like a mentor is somebody, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just like somebody who's an ambassador, an ambassador, and that's
Speaker 1: like that's more what I want to see is like
Speaker 1: women who are ambassadors for the sport, not for selfies
Speaker 1: and you know in camo, but like women who are
Speaker 1: paint a picture of that ideal, like who who would
Speaker 1: that ideal be? Who would it be billed her from
Speaker 1: the ground up? And like an Instagram account form or something.
Speaker 1: I mean, I could think of a lot of like
Speaker 1: personal female mentors that maybe nobody who listening to this
Speaker 1: podcast can relate to. But um, I guess just sort
Speaker 1: of characteristics and attributes. Oh, I mean, um, I guess
Speaker 1: somebody who is just like extremely ethical. And that's a
Speaker 1: very broad term because everyone's personal hunting ethics are different.
Speaker 1: But um, somebody who acts in a way that they have,
Speaker 1: you know, nothing to hide, I guess, and that the
Speaker 1: other people admire, not just men, not just women, but
Speaker 1: men you know admire and um and who I guess, Yeah, again,
Speaker 1: like don't make it about their appearance, but make it
Speaker 1: about their actions. Like I want to see more of
Speaker 1: like what what they're doing is good. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: there are like again, like hunting women in hunting who
Speaker 1: whose actions are genuine. But I feel and maybe that's
Speaker 1: just me, but I feel like so much more distracted
Speaker 1: by the way that they look and the way that
Speaker 1: they present themselves and like what they're their actions are
Speaker 1: if that makes any sense, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And I think like the perfect example is like when
Speaker 1: we had barbed On meat Eater and she took Steve
Speaker 1: City grass hunting, and she, you know, she showed him
Speaker 1: like this totally different way of hunting. Like that was
Speaker 1: like a really interesting, um relationship between them. And I
Speaker 1: think that it's kind of like what what women do
Speaker 1: a lot, and we just come at things and I
Speaker 1: mean she obviously like learned from her dad and like,
Speaker 1: and I think that, um, there are a lot of
Speaker 1: women and hunting the learned from their parents, and I
Speaker 1: think that that is a really beautiful thing. Um, it's
Speaker 1: awesome to read about people who are taking not just
Speaker 1: their sons hunting, but they're taking their daughter's hunting. And
Speaker 1: I'm it seems like that's something that's changed over the
Speaker 1: past like thirty years. Um. So I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't I feel like in the media, like I have
Speaker 1: no expectation that I'm going to actually like see more
Speaker 1: of these people, but like on a level of someone
Speaker 1: who's a reader, or on the level of someone who
Speaker 1: just like developing community, like the type of women that
Speaker 1: like I want to be around or like women like
Speaker 1: Brittany and Anny and people like Barb and like people
Speaker 1: that I can learn from, you know. But I just
Speaker 1: I don't discount men from the process either. I just
Speaker 1: I think that like, there are a lot of UM,
Speaker 1: really incredible guys out there like doing cool things and hunting,
Speaker 1: and I think there are a lot of guys that
Speaker 1: UM aren't. You know, well, I think it's super important
Speaker 1: to um establish or find or highlight really good solid
Speaker 1: women hunters that have a lot to say and have
Speaker 1: a lot to show. And you know, just I'll put
Speaker 1: it out there that I'm looking for you. I have
Speaker 1: the baby on the way, not to date, but to
Speaker 1: uh but to uh you know, continue this this effort
Speaker 1: that we're making here too, to put out a certain
Speaker 1: type of hunting ethic and hunting culture that we make
Speaker 1: at Meat Eater and the rest of our stuff. And
Speaker 1: and you know, it is important. I've been we have
Speaker 1: been looking for a character for for a female hunting
Speaker 1: it's called role model or or or individual for a
Speaker 1: while and UM still looking just just to put out there.
Speaker 1: And I think it is super important because we just interviewed, um,
Speaker 1: this really amazing woman in Washington, d C. For this
Speaker 1: documentary we're making, and and she has a beautiful hunting
Speaker 1: story and a beautiful like background, and her her understanding
Speaker 1: of the whole things really touching and really heartfelt and
Speaker 1: very smart. And she shared very clearly that she doesn't
Speaker 1: she doesn't have anybody too. She doesn't she doesn't feel
Speaker 1: she has. She she called an identity crisis inizens, a
Speaker 1: hunting identity crisis, because she didn't see others um and
Speaker 1: feel and hear others that she would consider peers or
Speaker 1: that she would look up to. And I think, I
Speaker 1: think it's it's really important what you're doing. You want
Speaker 1: to you want to feel a part of something. And
Speaker 1: I think you know, in our media state, we do
Speaker 1: need we do need to put people. I mean you
Speaker 1: look at you, look at Steve, and how many people
Speaker 1: right into us every single day of Like, man, I
Speaker 1: really connect to this community because of because of what
Speaker 1: you guys do. And it's it is important. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it's important to feel represented, like no matter you know,
Speaker 1: consciously or unconsciously, like especially when you're young and you're
Speaker 1: growing up like your girls for example, like you look
Speaker 1: whenever time and in any kind of media form, like
Speaker 1: you look for someone who who looks like you or
Speaker 1: who who like who you want to model yourself after.
Speaker 1: And I haven't found that person in hunting as in
Speaker 1: the female role. I mean, Steve has been like incredible
Speaker 1: mentor for me. You Danielle has are both incredible incredible
Speaker 1: mentors for me, and I wouldn't change that for the world.
Speaker 1: But I do, like I would be lying if I
Speaker 1: didn't say that, I'm I still always look for some
Speaker 1: kind of you know, female mentor in in you know
Speaker 1: whatever hunting or or hunting media or I mean any
Speaker 1: media and any media for for for that matter. But um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I guess I haven't really found that necessarily
Speaker 1: in in the hunting he has done for for women
Speaker 1: in the fighting world in the past two years or
Speaker 1: three years. I mean, it's just it's incredible what's happened there.
Speaker 1: But she's an incredible fighter, like she's not just an
Speaker 1: incredible women fighter like I don't or female fighter. I
Speaker 1: don't know, Like I think, I don't know, if maybe
Speaker 1: there were more women hunters like to be role models,
Speaker 1: maybe I would feel more like attracted not sexually just
Speaker 1: like to them, but like for me, like Steve and
Speaker 1: all you guys are that community. For me, I don't
Speaker 1: feel like have an hunting identity crisis because for me,
Speaker 1: like this works and this fits, and everything you guys
Speaker 1: are doing and Steve does on his show to me
Speaker 1: is like how I want to be as a hunter
Speaker 1: And it doesn't really matter what gender anyone is to
Speaker 1: me personally. No, I totally understand, and I agree, Like
Speaker 1: I don't say I'm not I'm not saying I I
Speaker 1: don't feel like I don't have like a tribe in
Speaker 1: like the hunting world tribe that like other people could
Speaker 1: go and find, Like I don't know. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: like I feel like you kind of have to You
Speaker 1: either end up in your own community or you have
Speaker 1: to really seek it out. And so I feel for
Speaker 1: somebody who doesn't have UM what like we're able to
Speaker 1: have here. And I would guess that meat eaters um
Speaker 1: special in the fact that there are so many women
Speaker 1: that work on it um and that there have been
Speaker 1: women working on it all along, you know, on a
Speaker 1: behind the scenes basis, and I think that it's um.
Speaker 1: I mean, that was one of the things that got
Speaker 1: me really excited to work in meat eaters that I
Speaker 1: interviewed with Britney and Helen the week before they went
Speaker 1: elk hunting, and um, I was excited for you guys
Speaker 1: and you know it and it was such a great
Speaker 1: show and it. Um. I don't know, those are the
Speaker 1: stories that need to be out there, you know. But
Speaker 1: I think that more women are coming to it. Um.
Speaker 1: I think it's a hard thing to come to you
Speaker 1: on your own, and to be honest, like, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I would have had the ability or like
Speaker 1: confidence to hunt if I hadn't been working at Meat Eater,
Speaker 1: Like I would still say that I wanted to hunt,
Speaker 1: but if I hadn't been working here, like, I don't
Speaker 1: know that I would have gone hunting last of all.
Speaker 1: So that's definitely another side of it. I think we
Speaker 1: have a we have a built in community for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I don't think, you know, I don't think it's
Speaker 1: necessarily about like trying to divide like men and women,
Speaker 1: but I don't. I also think it's it's sort of
Speaker 1: silly not to have, you know, to to say like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gender blind or I'm color blind, Like I
Speaker 1: think it's your post feminist you know. I don't like
Speaker 1: I don't think that that should should be Like I
Speaker 1: think we should celebrate our our differences and our similarities,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and doesn't. But it doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that I want to be treated any differently. But
Speaker 1: it's like I think it would be still particularly because
Speaker 1: women are still the like minority in hunting, I think
Speaker 1: we do need to take like that extra step to
Speaker 1: just be like, hey, you know what, like come and
Speaker 1: join our group and and so that's why I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I I identify as both a hunter, like
Speaker 1: in the general sense and as a woman hunter and
Speaker 1: hope that other women see that, you know who maybe
Speaker 1: just don't necessarily feel as comfortable like as as say,
Speaker 1: like we were joining in with you guys hunting and stuff,
Speaker 1: and um who who do need like that that female
Speaker 1: um sociality? Like one am I trying to say? But um?
Speaker 1: But yeah, And like I just I hope that I
Speaker 1: don't know, I can be that too somebody for your
Speaker 1: daughter's honest, do you think they do you think do
Speaker 1: you want the female hunt role model for them? Does
Speaker 1: that matter to you? I think if they, you know,
Speaker 1: at some point might have a question that I just
Speaker 1: you know, might not be able to answer. You know,
Speaker 1: as a male, and it might be hunting related, and
Speaker 1: at that point they just might need I mean that's
Speaker 1: a big reason that my wife is, you know, continuing
Speaker 1: her hunting education so that she can have that conversation
Speaker 1: with them and explain things, you know. And so again
Speaker 1: I don't think it's necessary that they need them, but
Speaker 1: it would be nice if like the the need came
Speaker 1: up that you know, you could say, yeah, we'll go
Speaker 1: talk to her or go look at her writing, you
Speaker 1: know whatever it might be. Well, I think that like traditionally,
Speaker 1: like if you like a traditional media, like a lot
Speaker 1: of it is designed to kind of pit women against
Speaker 1: each other and put us in competitive places. And um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that like when you think about
Speaker 1: like these the Barbie hunters, Um, I mean, they're not
Speaker 1: designed to be attractive for women, like they're designed to
Speaker 1: be to be pulling men in. And that's um that
Speaker 1: creates a competitive kind of environment in itself. So I
Speaker 1: think it's like it's interesting when um, women like us
Speaker 1: who don't necessarily ascribe to that kind of ideal. I
Speaker 1: mean it's not that I'm not going to like put
Speaker 1: on makeup and wear a dress and like look nice Um,
Speaker 1: I'm just not going to be like dress like in
Speaker 1: the mud with my right uf right, But I I
Speaker 1: think it is important to like to recognize that, Um,
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of those girls who where we
Speaker 1: might not necessarily be pointing fingers at, I mean, they
Speaker 1: could be sitting and having a really great intellectual conversation
Speaker 1: alongside us. So, UM, I would say that appearance is
Speaker 1: the thing that gets you followers or like might be
Speaker 1: the thing that like bring you to the top of
Speaker 1: the list, and especially in a world where of hunters
Speaker 1: are men. Like I mean, if you put an you know,
Speaker 1: a normal woman in a hunting show that didn't have
Speaker 1: that appeal, it would be interesting to me if that
Speaker 1: show would succeed. Like and I mean that's really the basis,
Speaker 1: Like do you guys, um, you know, are they going
Speaker 1: to trade in like what they've been advertised their whole life?
Speaker 1: I mean it's the same thing we've all been advertised,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's it's what we're supposed to be.
Speaker 1: We're supposed to be the thin um hair extension, plump
Speaker 1: lips you know, yeah exactly. But West Office, I will say,
Speaker 1: like one thing about um, you know, will men relate
Speaker 1: to two women in media and this is a very
Speaker 1: broad example and um, but I think it's interesting how
Speaker 1: many more women are now, like are starring in action
Speaker 1: movie roles. For example, the most recent Star Wars that
Speaker 1: came out. I mean it's about a woman and a
Speaker 1: black man, you know what I mean. I mean, you
Speaker 1: see a lot of that. But like in Star Wars,
Speaker 1: and that movie broke box office records, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? And again like the Hunger Games, like I
Speaker 1: think mad Max. Yeah, Like, I think, actually men are
Speaker 1: interested in seeing women in these socially male roles in
Speaker 1: the media, and hopefully it's not that they're super honestly
Speaker 1: like those I think that those stars that you noted
Speaker 1: are also very hot and sexy in that same but
Speaker 1: you know what, like men in all those roles are
Speaker 1: the same. I mean, they're also just as attractive. And
Speaker 1: I don't think like in Hungry like again, they're not
Speaker 1: wearing No, I didn't go watched Wars to to see
Speaker 1: you know, tits and asked like the Star Wars asked
Speaker 1: for the story was for the character. I think there's
Speaker 1: an element of transcendence no matter what that you know,
Speaker 1: people can get down to in with hunting particularly, it's
Speaker 1: such a human activity. It's a transcending activity. It's not
Speaker 1: a gendered activity. I mean, we can label that afterward,
Speaker 1: but the actual experience of from a media perspective, Let
Speaker 1: me ask you this question because I want to know
Speaker 1: if maybe you guys, could you guys ever foresee any
Speaker 1: advantages going into the field and being successful in killing something?
Speaker 1: Because you ever see an advantage? Being a woman's play
Speaker 1: a very big role because as a fly fishing guide,
Speaker 1: you know, I saw it over and over again if
Speaker 1: you took the same you know, experience of fishermen, and
Speaker 1: it could be beginners and it could be experienced. But
Speaker 1: because I often would have clients that were um couples
Speaker 1: who have been fishing together for many years and both
Speaker 1: were very experienced. Could each cast, you know, way past
Speaker 1: the bank, get all your flies lost, and you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes put where they had to be. But if you
Speaker 1: had to bet, just like who's going to catch the
Speaker 1: most fish, it was the woman And it was usually
Speaker 1: because her lack of ego would allow her to listen
Speaker 1: to the guide take those directions and be like that,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna listen to him because that or her if
Speaker 1: the guy was God was a gal, But that's gonna
Speaker 1: help me catch fish, And so they would end up
Speaker 1: catching more fish. Would often make for very frustrated husbands
Speaker 1: male counterparts. But like, so I could see that because
Speaker 1: you could like put your ego aside and think more
Speaker 1: clearly through the you know tactic or you know, however
Speaker 1: you want to look at, you know whatever, it was
Speaker 1: ahead of you to challenge. I think, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think coachability is definitely something that's built into women. We
Speaker 1: were like I mean, I don't know, I guess for
Speaker 1: me personally, I grew up playing sports, so it was
Speaker 1: a natural part of what I did. I maybe I
Speaker 1: shouldn't speak for all women. I think that like, um,
Speaker 1: when people talk about I've heard people say and I
Speaker 1: haven't seen like anything empirical. If it's out there, please
Speaker 1: let me know that. Um, women are better shots when
Speaker 1: they are learning how to shoot, because it's not I mean,
Speaker 1: for us, it's just something that we're learning how to do,
Speaker 1: and for minutes perceived as something that's the masculine. Oh,
Speaker 1: I should be good at shooting. You know, Um that
Speaker 1: I took a bad shot on And I'm saying, like,
Speaker 1: when you go out to the range, like and you're
Speaker 1: like kind of like learning that like basic like the basics,
Speaker 1: Like it seems like, um, I don't know that I
Speaker 1: took my wife shooting this year for the first time,
Speaker 1: and um, she shot better than I did, but she
Speaker 1: took it was to thirty minutes to shoot four shots
Speaker 1: shoot myself the same way I feel like, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's just like a different type of like uh, perfectionism
Speaker 1: that has like kind of been fostered than us and
Speaker 1: like kind of a from a gendered perspective, I don't know.
Speaker 1: This is all like anecdotal, so like it's it's funny
Speaker 1: because I think from like an experiential place, like I
Speaker 1: know that I'm a really coachable person and I know
Speaker 1: that I'm like a person who's open to that. But
Speaker 1: I also know like other women that I'm like you
Speaker 1: could never tell them what to do. So it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a big also, like again, like anecdotally, when I
Speaker 1: was hunting with Doug in do the dough that I shot,
Speaker 1: I mean, what I guess wasn't seen in the footage
Speaker 1: was like we saw her, you know, very like um,
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, maybe like ten minutes or so
Speaker 1: before and Doug was just like, all right, move over here,
Speaker 1: moving here, and she had no idea where we were,
Speaker 1: and I was like, she's gonna walk right in front
Speaker 1: of me, Like I don't want to like get up
Speaker 1: and rustle around, you know. But he kept being like,
Speaker 1: and this is nothing against Doug. I loved Doug, and
Speaker 1: I listened to him, you know, no, no problem, take
Speaker 1: his advice. But I just like, I don't know if
Speaker 1: this is a good example of either I've just had
Speaker 1: the patience to wait, or like I was just completely
Speaker 1: ignoring his advice. But he just kept telling me, like
Speaker 1: move and get into this position, and I just I
Speaker 1: wanted to wait until because I just had this feeling
Speaker 1: that she was going to walk right in front of me,
Speaker 1: and she did, and I shot her. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't know like what that's if that's either proving or
Speaker 1: disproving at the point that we're making, but I don't know,
Speaker 1: just another anecdote, but that was that being a woman
Speaker 1: helped you in that situation. But I'm just you know,
Speaker 1: what you guys are talking about, like whether women are
Speaker 1: more patient to wait for a better shot or were
Speaker 1: for more coachable. Again, I don't know that was just
Speaker 1: I think hunting and hunting media has been like really
Speaker 1: male focused, so like we don't necessarily like have all
Speaker 1: um of the baggage. I guess of like having somebody
Speaker 1: tell us what we should be as marksman or as
Speaker 1: like a fly fisherman. I mean you think of all
Speaker 1: those words, like I mean marks, I mean it's not
Speaker 1: marks women. It can be, but like if you're going
Speaker 1: like just gonna say it like man, Like the word
Speaker 1: man is attached to all those words, and I like
Speaker 1: language though, those are just like kind of some of
Speaker 1: the things that stick out. But I don't know, I
Speaker 1: think that like sometimes you get so high level and
Speaker 1: just going back to like what we're saying initially, like
Speaker 1: all of our first hunting experiences, like they weren't gendered experiences,
Speaker 1: they were hunting experiences, So, um, what's the benefit to that.
Speaker 1: I think maybe the benefit is the fact that we
Speaker 1: are in a society like where we can go out
Speaker 1: and do those things and I can um own a
Speaker 1: gun and rent an apartment on my own and um
Speaker 1: no vote. You know, we live in like a different
Speaker 1: world with different opportunities, and I think we're allowed to
Speaker 1: be more creative within those opportunities than women have been before.
Speaker 1: So um, yeah, I think that we are like a
Speaker 1: new We are new hunters and kind of the biggest
Speaker 1: sense of that word. You guys are miss sing out here.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you this is going Okay. You guys
Speaker 1: haven't made as female owners. Okay, just on the basis
Speaker 1: of permission. I knew you're gonna do this. You can
Speaker 1: like landowners and being like hide you answered the door,
Speaker 1: and you and your other self was there talking to
Speaker 1: you like that, maybe you wouldn't say yes you could.
Speaker 1: Maybe women had come to that door before that. Maybe
Speaker 1: if three thousand women had came to come to that
Speaker 1: same door, the answer would be different. Right, yes, for sure.
Speaker 1: So but that's just where we stand right now. Women's
Speaker 1: a woman that answers the door, well exactly. I think
Speaker 1: it would still play on your back. We're a little
Speaker 1: bit more to us. I mean, women like hunting. Women
Speaker 1: hunting is so because women are supposed to be feminine, right,
Speaker 1: They're supposed to be like providers in or not? What
Speaker 1: am I trying to say? I had written it down anyway,
Speaker 1: but respectful and like less of a threat and less
Speaker 1: likely in I think my eyes, at least like go
Speaker 1: out and trash my property, leave my gates open. Yeah,
Speaker 1: absolutely that other people are doing that like I was
Speaker 1: when I saw the elk hunters. To give you guys
Speaker 1: time to think about what you guys want to say
Speaker 1: in closing comments, I'm gonna start off with Steve's closing
Speaker 1: hunt comments. It's gonna come back to the advantages of
Speaker 1: being a woman associate with hunting. He feels so strongly
Speaker 1: about it that he told me he was here right now,
Speaker 1: no offense, he bogart the conversation. He told me that
Speaker 1: he would become a woman to gain those advantages. Get out.
Speaker 1: Don't even get you started on this defini. Can you
Speaker 1: just hear her he's making She would have a very
Speaker 1: slender frame. He would make a good look again, ros
Speaker 1: amazing amount of hunting properties to hunt on for free.
Speaker 1: I would never use my gender or sexuality like to
Speaker 1: my advantage in that situation. Ever, even if it was
Speaker 1: like to get like, I don't even know what the
Speaker 1: biggest buck in the world, we don't need to here.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean I think that like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's a statement of inexperience. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: because hunting permissions are you need them everywhere all the time.
Speaker 1: They're great to have. The more the better. I'm had
Speaker 1: a couple of people off her, but um, his whole
Speaker 1: about that, it's gonna go ahead and pull it up.
Speaker 1: I forgot about that's right. Well, Okay, So I when
Speaker 1: we began working with Randy Newburgh, part of what we
Speaker 1: were helping out with hunt Talk and UM, part of
Speaker 1: what I was doing is going on to hunt Talk,
Speaker 1: and um like reading Randy's hunting stories and like figuring
Speaker 1: out how to factor that into a social and UM,
Speaker 1: I'm nosy and very curious, and I started reading like
Speaker 1: some of the comment threads, and UM, that's it's a
Speaker 1: really cool community. And so I got involved by just
Speaker 1: opening my big mouth and um, you know, just challenging
Speaker 1: some of the status quo statements that we're going on
Speaker 1: in there. And I mean there are a lot of
Speaker 1: great people who um I've already like just met through there.
Speaker 1: I mean even with Randy Johanness and I were on
Speaker 1: his podcast last night. So UM, I would go on
Speaker 1: and ask questions and UM, none of those questions were
Speaker 1: ever asking for anything really specific. It was usually something
Speaker 1: about shooting or um, like a basic question about tags,
Speaker 1: And so I asked like a basic question about tags
Speaker 1: and in Montana and just trying to figure out the system.
Speaker 1: And I don't even remember like what the question was.
Speaker 1: But about fifteen minutes later, I got a personal message
Speaker 1: from someone and he used to hunt in Montana. He
Speaker 1: had like all of his GPS spots, and he sent
Speaker 1: me a list of like all of his honey hooles
Speaker 1: that he'd accumulated over like the course of his life
Speaker 1: and his family's life. So I do you are you
Speaker 1: guys saying that's because she was a girl or because
Speaker 1: I'm also I'm also incredibly play and while spoken in articulate,
Speaker 1: So I don't know that man helps, you know, And
Speaker 1: I would say that maybe that guy did it, has
Speaker 1: you know, been a part of that for him, and
Speaker 1: there's a beginner or there he's like he was definitely
Speaker 1: he was definitely like blatant, like do not chair list
Speaker 1: with anybody, Like I'm going out of my way to
Speaker 1: share this with you because like I and a lot
Speaker 1: of it was because I was doing it on my own,
Speaker 1: um and I was going to go out and hunt
Speaker 1: by myself, right, So like I had like kind of
Speaker 1: made this plan, and um, but I never asked for
Speaker 1: I make it known that I would never ask anybody
Speaker 1: for a location to go hunting. In Let's do a
Speaker 1: social experiment seriously, like for next season. Let's let's set
Speaker 1: up Brittany and I once had a contest that I
Speaker 1: beat her. We'll have a different contest to hunting. Hunting
Speaker 1: permission contest for like leading up to fall, like we
Speaker 1: have to ask, I'll do it or somebody the other guy.
Speaker 1: I will will go head to head. You ask twenty
Speaker 1: people for permission. I'll ask people for permission. It's a
Speaker 1: good exercise anyway. I mean i'd win. It's fine, But no,
Speaker 1: I mean that was it was a crazy thing for
Speaker 1: him to offer, and I like couldn't explain like how
Speaker 1: much it meant to me. But I also like, um,
Speaker 1: a lot of those areas I didn't want to go
Speaker 1: into by myself. I mean, they're like the heart of
Speaker 1: Grizzly Country. So if anybody wants to go hunting with me,
Speaker 1: I have some secret ye to do your sweetest permission
Speaker 1: asking of Nicole to get this postomer a lot of
Speaker 1: my girls in a couple of years come over. That's true.
Speaker 1: They can come with hunting with me anytime? Any closing thoughts?
Speaker 1: What are closing thoughts? Last? I don't know? Wrap up?
Speaker 1: Or did you? Was that yours? No? Can? I got you?
Speaker 1: Kind of salty salty podcast? Why I salty? She's a
Speaker 1: salty human. Love her go ahead? I don't know. I guess.
Speaker 1: Like my before we maybe turning the podcast on, we
Speaker 1: had like we discussed having a word of intention for
Speaker 1: for our podcast, and mine would be ambassador because I
Speaker 1: just I think I want to be UH an ambassador
Speaker 1: not only just for hunters, but for women hunters um
Speaker 1: and I I hope that other women want to do
Speaker 1: the same, and I hope that other men want to
Speaker 1: do the same and encourage more women to get into hunting,
Speaker 1: because I think it's again, it's like it doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be like about you know, being macho and you
Speaker 1: know like oh, you know, I'm just killing big books
Speaker 1: and all. It's like for me, it's about food, and
Speaker 1: I think that should be important to everybody. But if
Speaker 1: it's you know, I'm particularly interested in getting women involved
Speaker 1: in so anyhow, I would like to be an ambassador.
Speaker 1: I think more people should be ambassadors, and I think
Speaker 1: more people men and women and children should be interested
Speaker 1: in in hunting and should feel like me Eater is
Speaker 1: a safe place and to be there for me Eater
Speaker 1: to be like the air tribe of people and to
Speaker 1: think that to know that they can always come to
Speaker 1: us with questions, um and concerns and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: You know, I want us to be the outlet. So
Speaker 1: that's my closing statement. I think you should go next,
Speaker 1: and sure, um yeah, I don't know. I My closing
Speaker 1: thoughts are my mom is getting back into hunting a
Speaker 1: little bit, and she's fifty nine. And I think she
Speaker 1: got a turkey tag last year because there's been a
Speaker 1: lot of turkeys in her yard and she didn't kill one.
Speaker 1: And I think she sat. She sat two nights in
Speaker 1: a dear blind this last fall. And and this is
Speaker 1: there's been definitely a hunting resurgence in my family. I
Speaker 1: grew up hunting a lot. My famili's all hunted forever,
Speaker 1: forever ever, And my mom never killed a deer in
Speaker 1: my lifetime that I'm aware of, but she would always
Speaker 1: tell the story about the one time she had an opportunity.
Speaker 1: She um she was she actually I shouldn't tell this,
Speaker 1: but I think she was peeing in the so she
Speaker 1: wasn't ready to go. But I'm really excited that she's back.
Speaker 1: And I think that the food part of being involved
Speaker 1: with media and being part of this company and doing
Speaker 1: this whole thing has been a big part for my family. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, and my my mom and my dad and
Speaker 1: my brother and have all really been more into the
Speaker 1: cooking and are you know, making sure they get three
Speaker 1: or four deer a year and filled the freezer and
Speaker 1: do everything, and um, it makes men actually want to
Speaker 1: go hunt with my mom And I would actually never
Speaker 1: have hunted with my mom. I think it'd be really fun.
Speaker 1: I'd love to. You know, my wife has never hunted,
Speaker 1: and she got real excited last year and bought four
Speaker 1: dollars with the tags and never went out. Um mind
Speaker 1: you mind, she did get pregnant to But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I think it's great. I think it's I think it's
Speaker 1: cool at uh we you know, as a show and
Speaker 1: as a company, are you know getting more into it
Speaker 1: and addressing it more of something I'd like to do more.
Speaker 1: That's all I got. I have something to say. Um,
Speaker 1: kind of just continuing with both of you said, is
Speaker 1: like not everyone can work as EPs or work on
Speaker 1: me Eater, or go to Alaska and film a documentary
Speaker 1: with Steve Um. So I was gonna say, Um, I
Speaker 1: just think it's super important for us and people in
Speaker 1: the media and hunters just to be ethical and like
Speaker 1: put regardless of gender, just like be good examples for everyone.
Speaker 1: Because of the general public or people that are into it,
Speaker 1: like they have a very clear vision of what we
Speaker 1: all are. And if you could see us Mr right now,
Speaker 1: like we're not that. My mom actually bought her tags
Speaker 1: for this fall to go hunting. She bow hunted when
Speaker 1: I was before I was born with her brothers. She's
Speaker 1: from Montana. But um, I think that's really cool and
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to hopefully hunting with her this fall.
Speaker 1: But um just thinking back to what we talked about,
Speaker 1: I think that like sometimes this big wall is built
Speaker 1: between men and women, and um, I think that the
Speaker 1: three of us especially and like the people here, um,
Speaker 1: I love like how conscious we all are about thinking
Speaker 1: about that wall and like making sure that that world
Speaker 1: doesn't get built or at least wondering like why it's there.
Speaker 1: And I I like when people are intentionally thoughtful. I
Speaker 1: think that in a very traditional culture it's easy to um,
Speaker 1: you know, shrug your shoulders and say, oh, you're just
Speaker 1: being PC, you're being politically correct, or you are, um,
Speaker 1: you know, you're not representative of the whole of hunters. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that, like this, hunting is about storytelling, and
Speaker 1: I think that everybody has a story that they can
Speaker 1: attached to it. And I think that the more open
Speaker 1: people are about, um, the type of people getting into hunting,
Speaker 1: whether it's women or you know, people coming in from
Speaker 1: the city's the hipster hunters, like whatever they are. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean I think it is. I think that there's
Speaker 1: a place for everybody in hunting, and um, I'm happy that,
Speaker 1: um I get to be a part of that like messaging,
Speaker 1: especially like coming from Meat Eater and coming from a
Speaker 1: show that like I feel like I could show it
Speaker 1: to any of my friends and and I have shown
Speaker 1: it to a lot of my friends, and it's really
Speaker 1: cool to get that experience where they're like, oh, like
Speaker 1: this is totally not a hunting show, you know, but
Speaker 1: it is. And I just think that gets to the
Speaker 1: heart of like what we're really talking about, which like
Speaker 1: isn't gender, it's it's really about like story stories. Very
Speaker 1: well said, Yes, um. All I gotta say is be wary.
Speaker 1: If a soft spoken, high pitched voice Stephanie Runella introduces
Speaker 1: yourself at your pharm door, be very, very wary. Thank
Speaker 1: you for listening, Thank you guys for coming on. I
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. It It was fun, good conversation. Sorry,