1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Brading, Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They call 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: producer Paul Michig Control Decade. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: want you to know coming to you live ish in 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: the midst of a global pandemic. We've been getting a 11 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: We've been getting a lot of feedback, a lot of 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: responses from our fellow listeners regarding our latest update on 13 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen, and we appreciate these check ins. We we 14 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: want to hear from you as always, You, specifically, you 15 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: are the most important part of this show. Let's let's 16 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: check in with each other. Noel, Matt, Paul, how you 17 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: guys doing much the same? Pretty? Okay? I love that 18 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: you said live ish it is. My mind immediately went to, well, 19 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: at least we are alive. Uh So that's maybe where 20 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: the ish part comes in. Yeah, but I don't know. 21 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm with you. I feel all of 22 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: your individual warmths emanating from my screen. Um, and honestly 23 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: I look forward to this. It kind of is the 24 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: thing that breaks up the monotony and uh feels like 25 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: real human contact. I love it. Maybe this is the 26 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: new the new way, um, but if it is, I'm 27 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: okay with that as long as we can hang out. Yes, Uh, 28 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: things are going pretty well over here. My wife recently 29 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: had a quarantine birthday and we were able to utilize 30 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: the the old hangout for that, which was really nice. 31 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: You know, just getting like you said, no old getting 32 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: to see a face, hear a voice of someone familiar 33 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: is really comforting right now. But I would counter that 34 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: with I was forced, it was necessary for me to 35 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: take a trip physically to a grocery store just momentarily, 36 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: and the anxiety that I felt just walking near any 37 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: other person, it's pretty harrowing that we that I feel 38 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: that personally, and I you know, I'm assuming we all 39 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: are feeling that at this moment. So I would just say, 40 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: connect with whoever you can virtually right now. It's interesting, 41 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: Like I mean, even like taking walks, like I've been 42 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: going to the park and trying to get out and stuff. 43 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: And I live near near the park, and people are 44 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: keeping their distance and being respectful, but there is that 45 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: weird feeling when you're passing a little too close to 46 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: somebody where you almost look at them suspiciously, or you 47 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: hold your breath even or like crossing the other side 48 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: of the street. It's a weird impulse that I'm not 49 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: used to feeling, and it's a very alien thing for me, 50 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: but I'm kind of and to get used to it, 51 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: which I don't want to get used to it, and 52 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know how how else to describe it. 53 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: Probably the last mode of transport that will remain open 54 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: for most people in the United States is going to 55 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: be the automobile. Uh, you know, like domestic flights will 56 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: you know get increasingly sparse, right. I think Delta, for instance, 57 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: has maybe a ten percent demand for flights. Now. A 58 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: lot of international borders are closed for maritime and air traffic. 59 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:43,119 Speaker 1: But here in the US we still have the the 60 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: amazing capacity to literally wake up and if you want 61 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: drive across an entire continent, it's tough to do it 62 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: in a day, but you can drive from c to 63 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: Shining Sea. You won't be stopped at a state border. 64 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: You won't have to you know, a apply to enter Maine, 65 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: for instance, or California. And I mean this country is 66 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: so huge that many US residents, the four of us included, 67 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: have never been to all fifty states. This, this is 68 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: amazing and unusual. The US is a car culture, and 69 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: people are appreciating it more and more now. Many of 70 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: our fellow listeners have been, you know, getting cabin fever 71 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: and driving out to rural areas just to get some 72 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: vitamin D from sunshine, just to be out and around nature. 73 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: But today's question is will this continue to be the case? 74 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: The car, the opportunity afforded to us by the automobile 75 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 1: is is a tremendous amount of freedom. But will big 76 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: brother get under your hood? Here are the facts. Auto 77 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: manufacturers are increasingly moving vehicles on line. If you buy 78 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: a car that was made in Ballpark the last eight 79 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 1: years or so, you probably have any number of neat 80 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: electronic capabilities, right like touch screens, on board satellite navigation, 81 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: These customized bespoke updates to the music you like, the 82 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: podcast you listen to the news that some AI or 83 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: algorithm thinks you prefer I know, that two of us 84 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: recently bought vehicles. Well, you have you bought a vehicle 85 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: a while back. I have one now. I finally had 86 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: to say goodbye to my Monte Carlo and I sat 87 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: when when I sat in my current vehicle for the 88 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: first time, I felt like I was in the future. 89 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: I could just touch stuff and things happened. That's amazing. 90 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: You know. I went from not having like power windows 91 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: to all of a sudden having this thing that will 92 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: you know, kind of nanny state me if if it 93 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: thinks I'm backing up in to aggress of a manner. 94 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: I mean, what are you guys experiences when you're driving? Well, 95 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: first off, Ben, you're bearing the lead. What kind of 96 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: car did you get? I don't even think I know 97 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: about this, I refused to disclose. I I have a 98 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: Ford Escape, oddly ironic or perhaps apt as a car name, 99 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: and these are troubled times. Plenty of room for your 100 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: bug out bag too in the back of a Ford Escape. 101 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: I love that I have a Honda Fit, which is, 102 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: you know, a little less roomy than than an Escape, 103 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: but still has a nice little hatchback and plenty of 104 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: room for all my dirty laundry and empty gym bag, 105 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: which I have pledged to turn into a bug out 106 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: bag after that episode. I'm going to take our own advice. 107 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's the first time I ever had a 108 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 1: backup camera, first time we ever had a car that 109 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: was very digitally driven, for sure, no question about and 110 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: it isn't an adjustment. It's convenient. But as we get 111 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: into this topic today, we're going to see that there 112 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: are some potential uh and fair is possibilities that can 113 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: go along with that. This is this is an idea 114 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: that that you thought up first, Matt, I mean, not 115 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: the idea of digitally connecting cars, but you you raised 116 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: the issue that this is a growing concern for a 117 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: lot of people. It's a convenience, but it's also a concern. 118 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: You know, anybody who has a web connected car is 119 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: encountering all these needo digital capabilities. But we're also seeing 120 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: the capability to limit the performance of a vehicle, such 121 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: as UH engine governance, right, that's an old technology. For instance, 122 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: people in the US and Latin America undoubtedly know the 123 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: Bluebird school buses. You guys know the big yellow honkers 124 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: UH that for some reasons still don't have seatbelts, say 125 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: it's always blowing my mind. How is that? Okay? The 126 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: driver has a seatbelt, which I think is weirdly unfair 127 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: but and not reassuring. But those those engines have governor 128 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: switches on them, meaning they can't UH. While the engine 129 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: itself can power the vehicle to go at a pretty 130 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: high rate of speed, there are safeguards put in to 131 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: prevent it from reaching that speed, and you can you 132 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: can engineer via software limits on your engine's performance if, 133 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: for instance, UH, you don't want your vehicle to go 134 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: over eighty miles per hour for instance, if if you 135 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: want to keep it at a certain speed for let's say, 136 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: economical concerns or safety concerns. The Ford Escape that I have, 137 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: for example, has something called my key technology, and when 138 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: you when you have this limit programmed in, depending on 139 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: which key you use, the touch screen right when you 140 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 1: get around seventy nine miles an hour, the touchscreen will 141 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: pop up and will say, uh, your speed is limited 142 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: by the MIKEY. In an ideal world, this helps parents 143 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: keep their kids from hot rodding around over the speed 144 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: limit and straight into a fender bender. It also helps 145 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: owners of fleets manage their individual vehicles from truck companies 146 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: to rental empires like Hurts or something again. In an 147 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: ideal world, remote control over your vehicle makes the world 148 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: a safer place. But we do not live in an 149 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: ideal world, No, we don't. Um Let's imagine, you know, 150 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: it's not gonna be too much of a stretch. Let's imagine, 151 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: if you would, a world in which government or even worse, 152 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: a private entity can um render your vehicle useless, absolutely 153 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: brick that thing the way a company might do that 154 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: to your phone, or you know, rendering your phone obsolete 155 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: as more and more updates come out um the idea 156 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: of planned obsolescence or in the same way as your 157 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: video game console or PC you know, might start to 158 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: feel a little long in the tooth as a digital 159 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: updates begin to outpace the hardware. Well yeah, and and 160 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: also imagine a world where a tiny little device connected 161 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: up to your vehicle, no matter how old it is, 162 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: to your onboard diagnostics port, could track all of your movements, 163 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: everywhere you've ever been, where you are right now, how 164 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: fast you're going. Uh. Imagine that some tiny little little 165 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: device could do that, installed by anyone or a very 166 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: similar device that is just magnetically placed underneath your vehicle 167 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: by whoever can see exactly where you are, where you're 168 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: going at any time, when you're going home, when you're 169 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: going to work, all of your routes that you generally take. UM. 170 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: Imagine that you would only have to spend forty dollars 171 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: to someone would only have to spend forty dollars to 172 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: know exactly what you do every day. UM. And then 173 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: you don't even need that device anymore because of the 174 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: technology we're discussing here, it's already inside your vehicle if 175 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: you have a newer one. The big question here is 176 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: how are we going to balance the freedoms that we 177 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: hold so dear like, like we said at the top, 178 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: being able to just drive wherever you want, whenever you want, 179 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: because you are a person who has freedom. How are 180 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: we going to balance that with all of these new 181 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:44,719 Speaker 1: technologies and uh possible control mechanisms that are being developed 182 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: and are already in place. Ask yourself, how long can 183 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: you drive when and where you wish? We'll tackle that 184 00:11:54,760 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: question after a word from our sponsor. MM. Here's where 185 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. The increasing interconnectivity. Dare I say the 186 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: hyper interconnectivity of vehicles to the web brings a ton 187 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: of convenience, and it brings a load of worrying potential. 188 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: This is a phenomenon that was once hailed as the 189 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 1: Internet of Things. Our good pal Jonathan Strickland covered this 190 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: in depth on tech Stuff if you would like to 191 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: learn more about it. But we know again, we we 192 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: say this every time we run into a developing technology episode. 193 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 1: We know again that technology always outpaces legislation. Currently, governments 194 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: around the world are scrambling to catch up with the 195 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: things that your software in your car can do. In fact, 196 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: these concerns have already reached the highest court in the 197 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: United States. Back in January. Think about that. Seven years ago, 198 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:08,599 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court weighed in on GPS tracking of vehicles 199 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: in a case called the United States versus Jones. What 200 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: what what happened there? What was the gist? Well, let's 201 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: let's jump in really quickly and just talk about those 202 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: GPS devices. So a a single, tiny, little GPS device. 203 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: There are so many of them out there on the 204 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: market for their consumer level grade. Again, they're they're fairly cheap, 205 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: they're extremely effective. It's a tiny little device, generally with 206 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: a magnet on the bottom. It goes or is placed 207 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: most commonly underneath the chassis or on the bottom of 208 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: the chassis of a vehicle, the metal parts underneath, and 209 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: it's placed there in many cases by a private investigator 210 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: or by a law enforcement officer. It will be placed 211 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: to track a person of interest, whether it's in an 212 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: infidelity case or you know, tracking perhaps a narcotics someone 213 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: who is assumed to be within the narcotics trade um 214 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 1: for any number of reasons. You place this device underneath 215 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: a vehicle, and then that device is connected up through 216 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: the same thing that your cell phone uses, the same 217 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: networks that your cell phone uses to connect everything, and 218 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: through the GPS system, and it will tell that whoever 219 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: is tracking that vehicle exactly where it is, where it's going, 220 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: where it's been. Uh, it just knows everything about that vehicle. Now, 221 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: when there's this case that we're about to discuss, has 222 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: to do with what happens when someone finds a GPS 223 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: tracker on their vehicle, their personal vehicle exactly there. There 224 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: are a couple of different ways is that these things 225 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: can work. There are real time update rs and then 226 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: there are also update ors that just log transport. And 227 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: the tricky thing about those is that the person using 228 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: that GPS device has if it's not real time updating, 229 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: they have to physically go and take the device back, 230 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: plug it into a system, and then download the information. Yeah, 231 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: but generally the ones that are used now, even the 232 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: cheapest ones, you they it just connects to an app 233 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: on a phone and it's updates are being sent continuously. 234 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: Exactly exactly the technology is there in this case. In 235 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: the case of the United States versus Jones, police placed 236 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: a GPS tracker on the car on the chassis, like 237 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: you said, Matt, of someone that they suspected was selling cocaine. Uh, 238 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: they suspected this person was selling code Kane because this 239 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: person was selling cocaine. You know, I'm not the chief Justice. 240 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: I'm not bound by the same rules of legality, so 241 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: we can just say it. They they they had probable cause, 242 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: they had reasonable suspicion, you know what I mean. They 243 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: weren't just walking around parking lots going I don't know 244 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: that Honda Civic looks like that spoiler is suspicious. Let's 245 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: see what that guy's getting into. Uh. The police had 246 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: received a warrant. They were legally allowed to do this, 247 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: but they were only allowed to do it under certain constraints, 248 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: and they exceeded those constraints. There were two constraints. First, 249 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: they were only allowed to monitor this vehicle for a 250 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: specific length of time, and secondly, they were only allowed 251 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: to monitor it for a particular geographic region. They went 252 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: over the limit on both of those. They exceeded the 253 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: geography and they exceeded the length of time. The federal 254 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: attorne argued that there is no expectation of privacy when 255 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: you are traveling on public roads. It's kind of like 256 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: how you have no right to tell somebody not to 257 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: take a photograph of you if you are in a 258 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: crowded public space. If you go to a part for 259 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: a concert or something like that and someone on stage 260 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: takes a picture of the entire audience, then you do 261 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: not have the right because you were in a public space. 262 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: You do not have the right to pull that photograph. 263 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: You have no rights to it. However, the Supreme Court 264 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: agreed with the defense attorney because the defense attorney claimed 265 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: this was a violation of this client's Fourth Amendment right, 266 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: and that the Fourth Amendment again is the right against 267 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: unlawful search and seizure. So they're saying this was a 268 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: violation of personal privacy despite the fact that this vehicle 269 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: was traveling on public roads. That's crazy, right, that concept 270 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: that there's no expectation of privacy when traveling on public roads. 271 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I get it. I think it's just the 272 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: knowing that when you're inside your vehicle. No, I don't 273 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: know if you feel this way you feel. I think 274 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: this is just a psychological thing that we've discussed before 275 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: in this show. You feel very much that you are 276 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: in this private space. Yeah, it's just sort sort of 277 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: an illusion of privacy though, isn't it, Because it's exactly 278 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: aren't a tinted windows even kind of illegal? Like, isn't 279 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: that a thing past a certain tent level? Yet past 280 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: to certain So so that's almost I mean again, not 281 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: the two ideas are intertwined. But you know, there is 282 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: an expectation that law enforcement should be able to see 283 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: into your vehicle to make sure you're not doing anything 284 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: illegal right while you're driving and you so that expectation 285 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: of privacy is absolutely uh an illusion for sure. Yeah. 286 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: So here's another thing I want to bring up with 287 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: you guys. Uh, Okay, So in another case that happened 288 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: pretty recently. Uh, this has to do with property rights. UM. 289 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: A man who was suspected of selling methamphetamines also had 290 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: a GPS placed on his vehicle. And in this case, 291 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: the man discovered it after ten days or somewhere around 292 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: ten days, and the you know, the police officers are 293 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: are getting all the information and tracking it, and then 294 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the trackers the GPS stops putting 295 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: out data. They suspect that the man has taken you know, 296 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: removed it from his vehicle, discovered and removed it. Um. 297 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: So they then get a warrant, another warrant because he 298 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: had to get one in the first place, right to 299 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 1: put the GPS on his vehicle. They got another warrant 300 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: to search I think it was his parents house and 301 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: the surrounding areas, like some of the surrounding areas to 302 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: find the GPS, because they were charging him with theft 303 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: of proper No, if you found of our bed, if 304 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: you found a GPS device on your vehicle, would you 305 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: remove it or would you just leave it there? No, 306 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: you put it on another vehicle. That's obvious. There's a 307 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: there's a this comes up a lot in breaking Bad 308 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: and better call Saul that they call them low Jack's 309 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: I think that's actually a brand, but I think it's 310 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: sort of like one of the most popular like car 311 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 1: tracker things that are used for theft prevention that like 312 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: individuals can buy or there may even come stock in 313 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 1: certain cars. But they call it that a lot in 314 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: the show, and I wonder if it's sort of like 315 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: calling a you know, a mimiograph machine a xerox or 316 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: like you know, calling a soda coke or something like that. 317 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: But Internet, Internet search of Google exactly, but that was 318 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: first first commercially available. That's that that makes sense exactly. 319 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: So to your to your question, it reminds me of, um, 320 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 1: getting your car booted. For example, Let's say you get 321 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: your car booted. Uh. To me, that is uh, you know, 322 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: unjust seizure of my property because it's usually by a 323 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: private entity rather than some law enforcement agency. And then 324 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,479 Speaker 1: they put a sticker on your window that you know, 325 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: it tells you to number the calls they can come back, 326 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: and then uh, you can pay them and they take 327 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: it off. On the flip side, if I found someone 328 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: had placed something on my vehicle, UM, I you know, 329 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: feel like it was would be my right to remove 330 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 1: in the same way would be my right to remove 331 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: a boot if I was so inclined, but that similarly, 332 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: they would probably charge you with destruction of property if 333 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: you remove one of those. Yeah, yeah, that's that's correct. 334 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: And we have to we have to note here this 335 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: will be important later in this episode. We have to 336 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: note that both cases, uh Matt, the case you brought 337 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: up and uh the Supreme Court case mentioned earlier, both 338 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: of them focus on crime. They don't focus on, for instance, 339 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: a private investigator. That's where we get to a gray area, 340 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: right we they don't focus on and maybe a jilted 341 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: lover or something like that. They don't focus on a 342 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: helicopter parent. But all of those scenarios come into play currently, 343 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: if you're a if you're a driver, and you have 344 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: concerns about this, first off, you're absolutely right, You're not 345 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: crazy to be concerned about it. But they're The law 346 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: here in the US seems to be trending toward your 347 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: side for now, but there's still serious questions. One of 348 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: the first ones would be what about GPS vehicle tracking 349 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: confined to a specific group like a company fleet. Currently 350 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: there are no federal laws and no state laws that 351 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: expressly forbid the use of GPS vehicle tracking for commercial purposes. 352 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: So you drive a Cisco truck and it's the company truck, 353 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: then they can they can track you. They can do 354 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: whatever they want. Because it's not your it's not your vehicle. Uh, 355 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: you drive like you rent a car for instance, then 356 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: your car or the car you're driving can absolutely be monitored. 357 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: And there's a very valid argument that it should because 358 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: it's someone else's property. Think about it, like a work 359 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: laptop or a work cell phone. Your employer can both 360 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: monitor your usage of that device and if they desire, 361 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: they can flip a switch and restrict your capabilities. Like 362 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: if you if you are using a work phone and 363 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: putting any private data on there, it is It is 364 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: simply naive to it to think that that is somehow 365 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: still your data. Your company, your big brother, whatever your 366 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: corporate overlord is. They have it. They legally have it. Now. 367 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: It's the same way of the expectation of privacy and 368 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: emails with work emails, right, I mean, you know it 369 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: would be a bad look, but if the powers that 370 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: be wished to do so, they could find out what 371 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: we discussed in our emails at work, couldn't they? I 372 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: hope So our puns are on fire. You're good at those, 373 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: and yeah, you're absolutely right. So why should a vehicle 374 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: logically be any different? It shouldn't. There's no valid case 375 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: that a company car should be any different from a 376 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: company laptop. But let's take it away from that. Let's 377 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: say it's not a vehicle that you're using for work. 378 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: Let's say it's not a vehicle you're renting. Let's say 379 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,239 Speaker 1: you own a car, but you don't own it outright, You, 380 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: like million of other people in the world, are paying 381 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: off a car loan. Let's say here in the US, 382 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: you have the average monthly car payment. Uh, just just 383 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: right now, in twenty the average monthly car payment is 384 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: going to be three eighty one dollars a month. For 385 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: a used car, a recently a recent model used car, 386 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: it's gonna be five d thirty dollars a month. If you, 387 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: for some reason bought a new car. Why did you 388 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: do that? Why did you buy a brand new car? Uh? 389 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: That's sorry, that's let's cut past by car stuff, ted talk, 390 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: But please don't don't buy a brand new car. Uh. 391 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: What happens if you can't make that payment? If you 392 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: are three or five thirty dollars short for a month 393 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 1: and what happens then? I mean, maybe you paid on time, right, 394 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: but there was some kind of grimlin on the wing 395 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: of the web that interfered, and whomever is in charge 396 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: of your loan, or whoever your lean holder is, they 397 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: don't see that payment in your system. What happens It's 398 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: a good question, um, I mean, you know, it's the 399 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: The classic model of this is that they come in 400 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: repoet or they send someone to your home or your 401 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: place of business to repossess the car. But this would 402 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: be a much um more quickly um execute able form 403 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: of this, and it could happen for a much less 404 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: egregious infraction. It would take a lot to get your 405 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: car repode. But like you said, Ben, if you miss 406 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: one payment, all of a sudden, uh, they flip a 407 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: switch and master control and you know, you try to 408 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: start up your car, or you use your what is 409 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: it mikey or whatever your keyless entry and nothing happens. 410 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: You know, they literally have put the kai bosh on 411 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: you driving your car, um because of what could very 412 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: well have been a clerical error. Maybe you're stranded in 413 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere, you know, I mean, who knows. 414 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: I mean, I would hope there would be recourse that 415 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: you could reach out and sort it all out. Um, 416 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: but yeah, that's absolutely possible. Clunk clunk, wamp wamp. Nothing 417 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: happens when you try, when you try to start, even 418 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: if you're in an emergency. Right, Imagine a message plays 419 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: on your sound system, your qute touch screen pops up, 420 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 1: and you are informed that this vehicle will not operate 421 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: until payment is registered, and if payment is not registered 422 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: in X number of days, the lean holder will take 423 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: possession of your vehicle. Should it be legal for that 424 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: authority to automatically shut off your car? Like, let's say 425 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: you're escaping a disaster scenario, you know what I mean? 426 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: What if? Um, what if this is a system in 427 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: place when the next hurricane hits Louisiana and someone is 428 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: trying like hell to get out of the way of disaster, 429 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: but because of three they're stuck there and the water 430 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: is rising. I mean, that's an extreme example, but it's possible. 431 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, it is an extreme example, but it is 432 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: creepy to imagine it happening that way. The most common 433 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: way this occurs is that, let's say you've purchased a 434 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: vehicle from a smaller company or something, you know, a 435 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: smaller car lot somewhere that's probably used. Very often those 436 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: vehicles will have a hidden g p S tracker attached 437 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: to that vehicle, and very very commonly, it's what we 438 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: were talking about before. You're the same place where a 439 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: lot of like if you go get your emissions tested, 440 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: your onboard diagnostics port or or O B D two 441 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: A lot of times, um, that's where if you're going 442 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: to get emissions. Sometimes it will you'll get someone plugging 443 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: into that port. Uh you're whoever is running your missions 444 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: test will plug into there. It gets all the information 445 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: on your vehicle of what's occurring. The most common thing 446 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: that will occur here is that the owner of that vehicle, 447 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: the car lot, the car you know, used car dealer, 448 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: we'll have something attached on that port and they will 449 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: be able to track your vehicle wherever it goes. In 450 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: the case that we're outlining here, you miss a payment, 451 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: depending on what the contract looks like that you signed. Um, 452 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: so if you missed two payments, probably they would be 453 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: able to know exactly where your vehicle is at three 454 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: am on any given day, and a tow truck would 455 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: be able to pick it up without you having any 456 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: idea that it happened until until you see that empty 457 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: parking spot, right yeah, and it's gone. Yeah, And this 458 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: is this is just the beginning. We're starting with a 459 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: micro cosmic example. We're gonna we're gonna pause for a 460 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and then we'll be back with 461 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: the larger and perhaps more troubling implications. And we're back. 462 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: So let's go bigger. What about state control of vehicles? 463 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, Instead of going bigger, let's 464 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: go sci fi. Everybody, get your movie voices on in 465 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: a world, et cetera. Remember those old scenes so common 466 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: and TV and film where there's this gung ho police 467 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: officer or detective and they're chasing a bad guy and 468 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: they gotta they gotta catchup. But the bad guy and 469 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: they see usually in a film, it's like a slick, 470 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: badass nineteen seventies muscle car, but the you know, the 471 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: Ore Dudley do right, is chasing the bad guy. And 472 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: then they see somebody roll up in a cool car 473 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: and they're like, get out, I'm comment during the vehicle 474 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: and they hop in and there's a montage and a 475 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: chase scene and everything ends uh with a with a 476 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: happy note, and they've caught the purp. Imagine a world 477 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: where an authority can hop into your car and then 478 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: say the right pass code to your car system and boom, 479 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: it's off to the races. You never enter the equation. 480 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: They just used your car for state business. Imagic where 481 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: that's legal. Better yet, imagine a world where a municipal, state, 482 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: or federal authority can say, shut down all civilian vehicles 483 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: in the case of unrest, you know, like a riot, 484 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: like a pandemic that's a little close to home, but 485 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: like a pandemic like a natural disaster or a protest 486 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: for instance, or maybe shut it down because there is 487 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: a state sanctioned violent activity. A central authority with the 488 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: right kind of networking could do this. And that's that's 489 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: one of the things about autonomous vehicle systems that I 490 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: wish we were talking about more often now. Autonomous vehicles 491 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: will objectively save lives if you have if you have 492 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: a city where every car is functioning in a network system, 493 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: there are going to be fewer deaths, They're going to 494 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: be fewer vehicular injuries, but they are also uh, there 495 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: are also going to be tremendous opportunities for whomever big 496 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: brother or little brother is to just you know, shut 497 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: down the city. You don't have to shut down the 498 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: whole city. If there's, uh, if there's a neighborhood that 499 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: is maybe protesting something and you don't want media coverage 500 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,719 Speaker 1: and you don't want people physically getting out of that 501 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: neighborhood to say, hey, they're killing us all because we're 502 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: some you know, like we have a religion or an 503 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: ethnicity to which this government or authority objects. Then you 504 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: can just shut down the cars, and you can blockade 505 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: the roads, you can turn off traffic. We're not there yet, 506 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: but the technology is on the way. It's closer than 507 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: you think, and it always starts with the best of intentions. 508 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: If a feeling, we're going to learn about it in 509 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: like two months from now, a month from now, after 510 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: everybody's trying to get back to normal, and then the 511 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,239 Speaker 1: pandemic gets worse and then they just shut off all 512 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: the cars. Sorry, it's a little yikes, Matt, Yeah, sorry, yeah, 513 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: it makes me think of like a positive implementation of this, 514 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: and like science fiction is there's an anime show called 515 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: Psychopaths that is about like these cops that have these 516 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: particular guns that will not uh get they will not 517 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: activate for lack of a better term, unless they detect 518 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: certain characteristics in a subject, Like they won't allow you to, 519 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: you know, use lethal force on a subject unless they 520 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: meet certain criteria. And the gun can literally like look 521 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: up the person's background and Matt it's sort of like 522 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: pre crime, kind of like in um Minority Report, but 523 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: it's similar where like you know, it's bricked, the gun's 524 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: bricked unless you it gives it's it's given the go 525 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: ahead from HQ right to be used. Similar with with cars, 526 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: it could be used for positive stuff, like maybe it 527 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: could detect that someone's had too much alcohol and the 528 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: car won't function. Right, Maybe there's a way that, like 529 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: you know, would actually prevent people from being their worst enemies, 530 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: which people often do. They know they shouldn't drive, but 531 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: they're drunk and it makes them feel like they're invincible, 532 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: so they do stupid stuff. If the car itself would 533 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: not allow you to drive it, that would be a 534 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: positive use of this kind of technology, right, And it 535 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: could potentially detect um like a key code or something 536 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: that was invalid or didn't have a special you know, 537 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 1: secondary authentication process to it, so you could prevent theft perhaps. 538 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,479 Speaker 1: I mean there's there's there's possible things there that could 539 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: be good. Yeah, well this is this is a funny story, 540 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,720 Speaker 1: is uh Larry David moment with my my old money 541 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: Carlo Um. Now you guys, you guys know this because 542 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: it's made me late to shows before. But my my 543 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: car had a malfunction in the security system, so that 544 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: every so often, not every time, but every so often 545 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: I would try to start the car and it would 546 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: be convinced I was trying to steal it because the 547 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: the authentication didn't work, and so I would have to 548 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: do a reset of the system, which was very easy 549 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: to do, but it took about ten minutes. So sometimes 550 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: I would just be ten or twelve minutes late because 551 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: my car decided that I was trying to commit grand theft. 552 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: Aut uh yourself, myself, this isn't this is a known 553 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: issue with Chevy's UM. But the but the implications are 554 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: at you know, the technology has always been a double 555 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 1: edged sword. It's always been the darkness that stares back 556 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: at us. It's always been the gun that fires at 557 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: the person wielding the gun. You know what I mean, 558 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: ever since the days of fire right, it can keep 559 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: you warm, it can burn you. That is the same 560 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: thing with every single piece of technology humanity has ever made. 561 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: We just we don't make stuff that cannot also be 562 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,760 Speaker 1: used for terrible things. And and right now, big brother, 563 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 1: whether you want to call Big Brother a manufacturer, a 564 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: private software service, or a government, they want into your 565 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: vehicle and they're already inside, you know what I mean. Like, 566 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: how terrifying is it that Facebook can have OS and 567 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: software in a vehicle. I I don't know if there's 568 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: a like solid Facebook OS for a vehicle right now, um, 569 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 1: but the appleone is scary enough. And the initial arguments 570 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: for this are some of the ones we've outlined. The 571 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: first argument, of course, is valid, and it's let's keep 572 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,879 Speaker 1: people safe. We want to keep an eye on you, 573 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 1: not to stop you, not to hinder you, but to 574 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: help you. And then there's the other idea, Hey, let's 575 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: make things uniquely enjoyable. Oh, you're a you're a fan 576 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: of explosions in the sky, here's some other music you 577 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 1: might like on your drive, you know what I mean? 578 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: In the sky? What what such good driving music? That's 579 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 1: true it's true, it really is. Actually, then the idea 580 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: is um. The third idea is somewhat aspirational. Let's build 581 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: a better system. We're not We're not in your car 582 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,879 Speaker 1: because we want to track your GPS, because we want 583 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 1: to monitor you, and because we want to use that 584 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: data to affect your insurance premiums, or want to use 585 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 1: that data to figure out where and when we can 586 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: stop traffic. Let's use that data in aggregate to figure 587 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 1: out where we should build more lanes on on a 588 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: road system, or or where we should put a new stoplight. 589 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: You know what I mean, you're helping the greater good, 590 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: that's the argument. Yeah, or or you know, on the 591 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,720 Speaker 1: previous one to that, like if you took those last two, 592 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: who's listening to stuff they don't want you to know 593 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: and where? Yes, that's true, that's true. Look, Pandora's jar 594 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: is already unscrewed. You know what I mean, the badgers 595 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 1: out of the bag. If there was a canary in 596 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: the coal mine of this, the canaries dead. The canary 597 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,800 Speaker 1: was asphyxiated long ago, probably back in the late nineties. 598 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 1: And the stuff they don't want you to know is this, 599 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: there's already damning evidence that cars are hackable. And this 600 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: evidence is older than you think. This is not stuff. 601 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: This happened years ago. Yeah, remote hacking demo UM really 602 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: shook up the automotive industry. UM. Major automakers responded by 603 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: creating the Automotive Information Sharing an Analysis Center AUTO ISAAC ISAAC. Okay, 604 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: we'll go with ISAAC. And this was designed, or the 605 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,839 Speaker 1: intent was to research and discuss best practices for securing 606 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 1: this stuff, for actually implementing cybersecurity and vehicles. So let 607 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,879 Speaker 1: let's quickly, Ben, just go over this a little bit. 608 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: In that example, I believe I can't remember it was 609 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: wired or who it was, but there was a journalist 610 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: that was there and experienced what it was like to 611 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: have his vehicle remotely controlled, fully remotely controlled because the computer, 612 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,760 Speaker 1: the the onboard computers are sophisticated enough at this point 613 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: to where with that uh you know, always on, always 614 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: connected uh technology, they were able that the hackers or 615 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: the demonstrators here were able to break. We're able to 616 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: turn on every electronic piece of equipment within the vehicle, 617 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: every component to slow the car down, speed the car up, 618 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: to control the steering. Even it was really terrifying The 619 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: only upside of the whole thing was that the demonstrators, 620 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,720 Speaker 1: the hackers, uh, it required them to have physical access 621 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: to the vehicle before they could implement that full control 622 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: in right, Yeah, you're on the money, man, because the 623 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:02,359 Speaker 1: the issue here is that that any car was like 624 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: many vehicles, effectively air gapped, meaning there must have been 625 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: some sort of physical interaction at the time of the 626 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: hack or before the hack was implemented. But now it's 627 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: and uh, and it would be naive to assume this 628 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: technology and all the vulnerabilities it brings will not be exploited. 629 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,840 Speaker 1: If you're listening to this now, whether you love cars 630 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: or you hate them, or you are ambivalent to them, uh, 631 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: you don't care about their presence. You need to be 632 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: aware big brother, whatever big brother you want to specify, 633 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 1: is already in your new car. And they are going 634 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: to tell you that they are preventing hackers from hurting you. 635 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: And when they say that, they are telling the truth. 636 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 1: But like Emily Dickinson says, they're telling the truth, but 637 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,280 Speaker 1: they're telling it slant because they are also fully capable 638 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 1: of doing everything those hackers would do, every single thing, 639 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 1: they just haven't done it yet. At least officially. And 640 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 1: and that's that's where we are. You know, we are 641 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:14,800 Speaker 1: we are as a species, as drivers, as car owners, 642 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: and as pedestrians. We are entering a world. Uh, We're 643 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 1: entering a new normal. There's no turning back. This is 644 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: going to happen. It's already happening. Uh. You know, Elvis 645 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 1: has left the building. And uh, and now now you 646 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: have to wonder if this technology exists, what will it 647 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: be used for? And what what will the motivations be, 648 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: what will the fallout be, what will the consequences be? Uh, 649 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. We have a lot 650 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,800 Speaker 1: of we have a lot of truck drivers in our audience. 651 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 1: We have you know a lot of our fellow listeners 652 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: are driving in deliveries. A lot of us love road trips. Um. 653 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: We are a car culture, you know. Uh, So where 654 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,280 Speaker 1: do you think this is going? What have you seen? 655 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: Like I would love to hear if anybody has been 656 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,840 Speaker 1: affected by this already. If you're driving for a fleet 657 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: and maybe your your administrator knew some stuff about you 658 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: that surprised you and they were like, oh, hey, you 659 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 1: know Jane or John Jorgensen. It's it's interesting you've made 660 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: way better time to Denver than you did last week. 661 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: And you're like, what, how did you know I was 662 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: in Denver last week. I wasn't driving my work truck. 663 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 1: I was driving my own car. So, uh, this is 664 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,359 Speaker 1: something I want to bring up right here towards the end. 665 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: If you are feeling just uneasy about this whole concept 666 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: of you know, someone whoever it is, for any reason, 667 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 1: watching where you go, what you do, and all of 668 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: that in your vehicle, UM, I would say, go go 669 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 1: out to your car, your vehicle, whatever it is, check 670 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 1: that diagnostic port, Look underneath your chassis, take a take 671 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: a little look anywhere on metal surfaces, underneath your vehicle 672 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: or in compartments. Because these these things are very tiny. 673 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 1: They can fit really anywhere where there's a check. The 674 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,319 Speaker 1: wheel well, Yeah, wheel well is really a really good 675 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,839 Speaker 1: place to check. The really clever one from Better Call 676 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: Saw was it was inside of a gas cap assembly 677 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: he had. He had to pop it off with us 678 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,839 Speaker 1: with a screwdriver, and before he found it, he disassembles 679 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: his entire car before having an Aha moment when he 680 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,839 Speaker 1: realizes it's inside of the actual uh gas cap. So yeah, 681 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,320 Speaker 1: very very small, and you're just gonna keep getting smaller, 682 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 1: you know. So yes, but do that check that all 683 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:43,359 Speaker 1: of that stuff don't disassemble your car please? Um. But again, like, 684 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 1: here's the other thing. If you're so worried about that, um, 685 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:52,760 Speaker 1: maybe don't be. Because if you're like almost every person 686 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: who drives a vehicle, you travel with a cellular phone 687 00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 1: of some kind, and you are transmit getting you know, 688 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 1: unless you're extremely careful, and even if you are extremely careful, 689 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 1: you're likely transmitting every place you go, every you know, 690 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: how fast you're going, how long you stay at those places. Um, 691 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,359 Speaker 1: the data that exists around that device is far more 692 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,880 Speaker 1: terrifying than the ones that could be in your vehicle. 693 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: Well said, Well said. So that's that's our show for 694 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,239 Speaker 1: to date. But just because the episode ends doesn't mean 695 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: the show ends. We want to hear from you. If 696 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: you're driving right now and you are inspired to contact us, 697 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 1: wait until you're out of your car and uh and 698 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,359 Speaker 1: find us. We're on the internet. We're all over it. 699 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook, you can find us 700 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: on Instagram. You can find us on Twitter, not just 701 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: as a show, but as individuals. If you would like 702 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,880 Speaker 1: to find me, you can do so on Instagram. I 703 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: am at how Now Noel Brown, and I am on 704 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 1: Twitter at Ben Bulan hs W. I am on Instagram 705 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 1: in a burst of creativity, calling myself at Ben Boland. 706 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,240 Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram. I am Matt Frederick. 707 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: There's an E in there underscore. I heart and Yeah. 708 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,359 Speaker 1: I haven't posted in a long time, but maybe I'm 709 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 1: gonna start posting pictures of oh, I don't know, close 710 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,479 Speaker 1: up shots of my backyard. That's pretty much it right now. 711 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: I want to see that yellow submarine cut out and 712 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 1: it's full glory, Matt, with you posing behind it, peeking 713 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: through the little portholes? Can you do that for us? Sure? 714 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: But only if I can get Only if you guys 715 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,839 Speaker 1: will give me permission to photoshop your faces in there, 716 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: because there are four holes, so I could get all 717 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: four of us in there. That'd be great. I I 718 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:46,200 Speaker 1: I give full permission. Ben. Oh yeah, yeah, I think 719 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,239 Speaker 1: I think that chickens flew the coop man. You you 720 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:55,239 Speaker 1: have many, many, uh pictures of our faces. All I 721 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 1: would ask is a personal favor is that you try 722 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:02,240 Speaker 1: to find one where where I at least don't look sketchy. 723 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,320 Speaker 1: I know that's that's a tall milkshake. All right, Okay, 724 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:11,439 Speaker 1: so if Matt gets one thousand new followers, he will 725 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:16,399 Speaker 1: post this picture. Please don't make it happen one thousand 726 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: and beyond. Uh. We also have a like if you're 727 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,760 Speaker 1: a person who says, Wow, guys, you just talked about 728 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,759 Speaker 1: how scary the internet is, I'm terrified to do that. 729 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: I don't want to be on the internet. We get it. 730 00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 1: You can contact us a different way. We have a 731 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 1: phone number, that's right. It is one eight three three 732 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 1: std w y t K. We've been getting tons of 733 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,120 Speaker 1: amazing messages since all of this stuff has been going down. 734 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,000 Speaker 1: Thank you to everyone who has reached out. Um, you know, 735 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:57,280 Speaker 1: thinking about you Wayne, Yes, I have been getting your messages. Uh, 736 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,840 Speaker 1: thinking about Ben. You know you were mentioning ruck drivers 737 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,279 Speaker 1: or fleet vehicle drivers. We've been getting a ton of 738 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,239 Speaker 1: people writing in about that. I'm going to share with you, 739 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,960 Speaker 1: guys one particular call we got in from someone thinking 740 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: hard about the broader implications of our current situation and 741 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:25,840 Speaker 1: his like completely salient arguments about why we could be 742 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,840 Speaker 1: in a very dangerous position with regards to the United 743 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:35,360 Speaker 1: States and China. Um, just so many great, great things 744 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,920 Speaker 1: coming in. Thank you to everyone, Thank you, continue please 745 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,600 Speaker 1: and if none of that quite bags your badgers. If 746 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: you hate phones, if you hate social media, never fear friends, 747 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,280 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realists, we have one way you can always 748 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,840 Speaker 1: get at us, every day of the year until we 749 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,360 Speaker 1: get black bagged seven, and that is this. We have 750 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 1: a good old fashioned email. We are spiracy at i 751 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:22,279 Speaker 1: heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to 752 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 1: know is a production of I heart Radio. For more 753 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,919 Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 754 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,840 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.