1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and mine is Julie Douglas. 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: Julie tell me this. Uh, you in your husband using 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: an iPhone? Do you not to traverse the world around 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 1: you? You You depend on its maps? Affirmative? Mr Lamb, We 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: do so you like like like My household were probably 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: somewhat distraught when the maps changed all of a sudden. 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: We're recording this early October two thousand twelve, just a 10 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: week or two ago. Everyone updated their iOS and suddenly 11 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: Google Maps were no more on the phone. It was 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: Apple Maps instead, and there were some There was some 13 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: some ensuing confusion. Bridges melting melting bridges. Uh. The system 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: that we were used to was no longer in play, 15 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: and suddenly we were unable to simply drive a mile 16 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: from our house to to a location that we've been 17 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: to before. Nobody showed up at work. They didn't know 18 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: how to get here anymore because the maps weren't working. 19 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: I think that all this points to the fact that 20 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: maps are totally underrated and people don't realize how important 21 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: they are and actually how difficult it is to get 22 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: a good system in place. And I mean, speaking of systems, 23 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: remember what it was like before all this. I mean 24 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: by the time I was actively driving two places I've 25 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: never been to before, I think I had what was 26 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: the map Quest at my disposal, which even map Quest 27 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: was really confusing. Yeah, you had your print out of 28 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: map Quest and then the Sun's direction and you're on 29 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: your own. Yeah, and and and I and I'd still 30 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,839 Speaker 1: get lost. And then we eventually had you know, Google 31 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: Maps with an improvement as far as I'm consappie, as 32 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: far as most people were concerned. And then then came 33 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: the more affordable GPS devices and we were able to 34 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: navigate more without thinking about it. Well and uh, we 35 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: have seen actually instances where people absolutely did not even 36 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: think about it. And um, this was made fun of 37 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: in the TV episode The Office, But Michael Scott, Yeah, 38 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: he drives into the lake because it's not on the map. 39 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: On the map, the GPS says that you know, the 40 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: road keeps going, and it's a joke, but I think 41 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: this has actually happened to some people. It was amazing 42 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: when I when I was looking at into our history 43 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 1: with maps and and sort of comparing our modern understanding 44 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: of maps and use of these highly technological maps, and 45 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: comparing that two models of the past. I found these 46 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: photo auto guides from around nineteen o five really interesting. Basically, 47 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: if if I was to go back in time to 48 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: nineteen o five and then I had access to a 49 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: car and we're touring the country, and I was touring 50 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: the country and I was like, WHOA, my GPS doesn't work. 51 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: I brought it back. I bothered to bring it back 52 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: with me, but it has no satellites to playoff off, 53 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: so it's just setting there without a signal. What should 54 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: I do? What? What would it be like then? If 55 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: I were to try and replicate the GPS driving experience 56 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: using early twentieth century technology, or not even technology, but 57 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: just printing abilities and photography abilities, you would end up 58 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: with the photo auto guide, which was basically a detailed 59 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: set of directions for it to drive from one place 60 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: to another that would include photographs of intersections, detailed instructions 61 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: about how to navigate in order by turn. Yeah, so 62 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: kind of a combo an early version of both the 63 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: map quest print out of directions and a detailed GPS 64 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: p o V of where you are and where you're going, 65 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: but also travel guide of sorts do right because they're 66 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: talking about landmarks and about the different things that you 67 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: will encounter on the way. So as humans, we need maps, 68 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: and that's basically what we're talking about in this this 69 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: episode of stuff to blow your mind about our relationship 70 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: with maps from its early goings and on into the 71 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: future and just how tired we are to them. We 72 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: may not think about them all the time, you know, 73 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: you may not think about the map until you're having 74 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: to navigate somewhere you haven't been to before, or you 75 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: don't really remember the instructions are you're having to share 76 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: these instructions, these directions with someone else. But the map 77 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: is always there in the mind like it's it's really 78 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: part of our neural architecture at at a very deep 79 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: and important level. But at one point you could argue 80 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: that it wasn't there right because we didn't have even 81 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: though you know, humans have been nomadic for some time, uh, 82 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: we didn't necessarily have a sense of place beyond the 83 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: say of like I don't know two mile radius that 84 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: you might forage in. So there's some arguments about whether 85 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: or not there have been true maps made at those 86 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: times and or whether or not those were just sort 87 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: of moral like you know, turn right at the boulder, um, 88 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: and when we started to make maps in earnest as humans. Yeah, 89 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: now's this interesting. You said place. It's really important to 90 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: think about place, and certainly the difference between place and 91 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: space is reading in this book To Take Place Toward 92 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: Theory and Ritual by Jonathan Z. Smith, which is one 93 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: of my old college religious studies books, but like really 94 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: deep stuff about like the origins of ritual. But there's 95 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: a part where they talk about the use of maps 96 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: and he he quotes UM geographer Yi Futuin who says, 97 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: this space is more abstract than place. What begins as 98 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: undifferentiated space becomes place as we get to know it 99 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: better and endow it with value. If we think of 100 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: space as that which allows movement, then place is pause. 101 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: Each pause in movement makes it possible for location to 102 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: be transformed into place. So this is sense of in 103 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: a sense, it's like bringing order out of chaos. You're 104 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: bringing place out of space. Well, I like this idea 105 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: of movement too, because I think of that in those 106 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: terms of like spaces being a frontier something you're going 107 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: to explore and Emmanuel can't. Also, he argued that geography 108 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,799 Speaker 1: was the study of knowledge in a location, while history 109 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: is the study of knowledge and time. Okay, So it 110 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: comes down to, you know, it's it's core to our 111 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: perception of reality in the world around us. This this 112 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: map of where we are in space, of this place 113 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: that we inhabit that is full of things that have 114 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: value and meaning. Well, and that's what I think is 115 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: so intriguing about maps is that it tries to do 116 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: double duty. It tries to take space, place, and time 117 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: and combine it all on on one surface, right right, 118 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: one sort of understanding. Um, it is thought that the 119 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: oldest known maps are preserved. Um, well, not that they're preserved, 120 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: but that they actually go back to and then they 121 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: are preserved on Babylonian clay tablets from that time and 122 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: an ancient Greece, where photography was considerably advanced. The concept 123 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: of a spherical earth was well known among Greek philosophers 124 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: by the time of Aristotle. So we're talking about three 125 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: and fifty BC. So this idea that you're going to 126 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: map that space has been around and we know that 127 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: humans have tried to Harn said, Um, it's certainly one 128 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: of those things that if someone says that what was 129 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: the first map, there's no way of knowing, because that's 130 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: something that really vanishes into the murk of history. It's 131 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: probably some you know, some dude with a stick and 132 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: the dust or something. You know, it's it's not something 133 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: that's going to survive. And then even if it is 134 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: on paper, that it's not going to survive. And then 135 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: a lot of the things we end up keeping are 136 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: that we may think, we may interpret them as maps, 137 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily the case. In our previous podcast, we 138 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: talked about allegorical maps, maps of things that are not real, 139 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: and you really get into a weird area with old 140 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: maps where you have to judge, all right, to what 141 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: extent is this a map of anything in physical reality? 142 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: To what extent is this, say, a map of this 143 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: more cosmological in its sense, doesn't have to do with 144 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: religious matters, is it is it have to do it 145 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: with ritual or is it just merely some sort of 146 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: illustrative art. Well, into what extent is it our brains 147 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: interpreting something that isn't a map, but looking at patterns, 148 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about is it depictogram, is a religious artifact. 149 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: Is it just a landscape? Yeah, and describing our own 150 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: meaning to it. I did want to point out that 151 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: Greek and Roman cartography reached a culmination um with Claudius Ptolemius, 152 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: and this was an a d around and his world 153 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,679 Speaker 1: map depicted the old world from about sixty degrees north 154 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: to thirty degrees latitude uh south, and his writing was 155 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: called Guide to Geography, and it was really the authoritative 156 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: reference uh to maps in world geography until the Renaissance. 157 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: So that's quite a bit of chunk of time there. Um. 158 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: And then of course you can also fast forward to 159 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: about eleven fifty four when an Arab geographer named Muhammad 160 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: all the Reci produced his atlas and that actually was 161 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: used quite a bit as well. Um. He incorporated the 162 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: knowledge of Africa, Indian Ocean in the Far East gathered 163 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: by Arab merchants. And this is something that we're going 164 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: to see repeating over and over in history and matt making. 165 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 1: Is this idea that maps really came about as a 166 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: sort of crowdsourcing. Everybody else's knowledge dumped into this one 167 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: document to say, okay, this is what my experience was 168 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: in this landscape, and you had to trust that you 169 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: had people who actually were capable of of contributing to 170 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: the dialogue and weren't just gonna be like what he said. 171 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: I don't I'm just gonna go along with what this 172 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: previous person said, because then you end up keeping not 173 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: only uh, this previous cartographer's successes, but also his inaccuracies. 174 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: And we do see huge inaccuracies with maps even today. Um. 175 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: But when you think about these trade routes um, you know, 176 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: either by by foot or by horse or camel um, 177 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: then you get to you know, well established points of 178 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: reference and you can begin to make a mental mapping 179 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: of the landscape. But this is one of those outrageous 180 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: overstatements of the obvious, which is sometimes necessary in dealing 181 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: with mind building content, because you have to actually step 182 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: back and think about something that you already knew. And 183 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: that is that until very recently, we were not able 184 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: to look down at the earth from above and see 185 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: that is the shape of that island, that is the 186 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: shape of that peninsula, that is the manner in which 187 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: that river cuts across the continent. This is all that 188 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: is all really new technology, really new information to have, 189 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: and prior to that, you had to to to deal 190 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: with it all based on observation, mathematics and slowly pieced 191 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: together this top side vision of the world. It was 192 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: not possible. Yeah, it's true. Seventeen and eighteenth centuries really 193 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: ushered in mathematics and technology. Clockmaking made it possible for 194 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: travelers to determine their or longitude accurately, made it much 195 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: more easier to make more accurate maps. Uh for instance, 196 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: using degrees, minutes, and seconds. Meridians measure how far east 197 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: or west a location is from the prime meridian, and 198 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: parallels measure how far north or south of location is 199 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: from the equator. So if you didn't have all this 200 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: information mapped out in the first place, it would be 201 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: very difficult to even try to figure out that journey, 202 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: let along how long it would take. But thankfully we 203 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: had that sort of technology coming online in the form 204 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: of magnetic compasses, telescopes in six tons, which are these 205 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: instruments that really measure the angle between two visible objects. 206 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: So but as you say, it wasn't really until we 207 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: could get above and confirmed. Yeah, and actually Joan Jehan 208 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: Glenn said that when he first went up and he 209 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: saw he was, you know, going he was traveling away 210 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: from Earth and he looked down and he saw the 211 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: state of Florida. He was really impressed because he thought, wow, 212 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: our our map making is pretty accurate, because that is 213 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: a really great representation of Florida. We're not so far off. 214 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, we're talking about the ability to obtain aerial photography, 215 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: which of course one has to have the technology to 216 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 1: at least send up a balloon um or or climb 217 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: something very high, I guess, in a very simple, limited, 218 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 1: not really aerial form of photography, and of course you 219 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: need took graph It helps, it helps a lot. And 220 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: we actually had the technology of aerial photography back in 221 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: eighty eight, but it's kind of hard to believe that 222 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: it wasn't until after World War One that we began 223 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: to really use it. In earnest Um, it was used 224 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: in reconnaissance missions. Yeah, so prior to that, we there 225 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: was a huge chunks of the world that were really 226 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: uncharted because we didn't have the aerial photography. And then 227 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: of course you had satellites come online, and in the 228 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: beginning of the US military, satellites were equipped with hi 229 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 1: rese cameras for the purpose of aerial photography. But they 230 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: had no way to develop the film or transmit the images. 231 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: And we take that so for granted right now, right 232 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: you think about you know, Mars curiosity beaming back these images. Um. 233 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,239 Speaker 1: But what they would do is that these early satellites 234 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: would drop film packets into the atmosphere and these were 235 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: outfitted with parachutes. Just kind of cute to think about, um, 236 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: and then they were retrieved mid air by military mill 237 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: terry transport planes. Yeah. So there, yeah, I mean, yeah, alright, 238 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick little break here, and when 239 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: we come back, we're going to deal with a really 240 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: ancient possibly a map, maybe not a map, you'll find 241 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: out when we discuss it. And also are unstoppable need 242 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: to see maps in the world around us? And there's 243 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: actual term for this cartok kofies. All right, we're back, 244 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: and before we get really hardcore back into maps, let's 245 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about apophenia. Okay, we've talked about 246 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: this before. It is the spontaneous perception of connections and 247 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: meaningfulness of unrelated phenomena. Yeah. Yeah, the coin was too 248 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: the coin. The term was coined by k. Conrad in 249 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: nine and neurologist Peter Bruger studied apophenia and patients who 250 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: had psychotic episodes, and he noticed that they were they 251 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: were finding meaning and random aspects of their lives. And 252 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: his research actually indicates that high levels of dopamine effect 253 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: propensity to find meaning. In other words, when you find 254 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 1: a pattern, you get a little ding ding from dopamine, 255 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: your reward system of your brain lights up a bit. 256 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: So it would make sense that first that the human 257 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: brain is hardwired to try to find pattern just really 258 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: important in trying to survive, and too, that it would 259 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: get rewarded for that. Yeah, So if you have enough 260 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: dopamine in your system, if you listen to that Led 261 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: Zeppelin song and you finally figure out what he was 262 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: talking about, man, that kind of thing. I mean, it's 263 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: it's essentially a type one error in which we are 264 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: you're seeing patterns that aren't necessarily there. It's part of 265 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: everything from our ability to see a smiley face where 266 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: there isn't one to see, you know, because we can 267 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: look at anything but even the vaguest human face pattern 268 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: in it and we we sort of personify it. And 269 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: so there's a little bit of it going on there, 270 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: but been in it's more extreme cases, it's it plays 271 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: into conspiracy theories, it plays into religious experience, paranormal experience. 272 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: It's just drawing all these connections that aren't there where 273 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: Suddenly you realize that whoa, this uh, this thing that 274 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: happened with my car is something wrong with the engine 275 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: and it's totally because of the government, and they're probably 276 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: watching me through my TV. Meanwhile, you fellow dopamine release 277 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: for making that connection. Right, So it's not surprising that 278 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: there would be a little something called cartok cothies, which 279 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: is this uncontrollable urge to see maps where there aren't none. Yeah, 280 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: which is which is pretty pretty pretty phenomenal. I mean, 281 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: at one level we mentioned that, and I imagined a 282 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: lot of you are thinking, wow, well, when when would 283 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: one have the opportunity to make that mistake? Because you know, 284 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about just my daily life. How many times 285 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: do I encounter something that's not a map that I 286 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: could interpret as a map, Like maybe if I found 287 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: like a scrap of paper and I was wondering if 288 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: it was a treasure map. You know, I just I 289 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: don't see this being a big deal for the average person. No, 290 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: And I don't think it is. I think it's for 291 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: people who are map minded and intend to gravitate towards 292 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: Matt and particularly archaeologist and anthropologists were looking back in 293 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: human history finding these relics, and in many cases it 294 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: may just be some scratches on a on a wall 295 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: on ancient cave site, and then trying to figure out 296 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: what what was this ancient person whose mind I can 297 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: barely comprehend, if at all comprehend what were they thinking 298 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: when they did this? Well, and it seems benign until 299 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: you start to consider that if you, if you tend 300 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: to see maps where there are not, then if someone 301 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: is an archaeologist and they're looking at something, they could 302 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: perhaps uh perceive something that is not there and in 303 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: doing so, really warp our understanding of that culture, of 304 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: that period of time and history. Um and I am 305 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: thinking about something called the Caltahyak Map. It was first 306 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: brought to our attention in a nineteen article entitled Excavations 307 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: at Katahayak. And this is by James Mollart, who at 308 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: the time recognized it as a city plan. Yes, now, 309 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: the original scratch, the original scratches, the original markings do 310 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: kind of look like scratches on a wall, not not 311 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: to discredit the work of an ancient people, but it 312 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: hadn't really survived all that well, it's it's it's kind 313 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: of abstract. But the popularized version of this though, is 314 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: a sketch that he did of it. It's the sketch 315 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: that's the problems because the sketch really plays into his 316 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: interpretation of it. So you see in his sketch what 317 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: really looks like a laid out city like grid work 318 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: of the of the city and then above it interrupting 319 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: volcano right and um now he is saying that this, uh, 320 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: this sort of neolithic map dates back to six BC 321 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: and that it would have been one of the first maps. 322 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: Now that's really important because all of a sudden you 323 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: have pinned in time when man started to really make maps. 324 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: Um or you know, the surrounding areas are certainly just 325 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: you know, you have one of the earliest examples of it. 326 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: And that's that's amazing because we can actually put a date. 327 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: You're right, that's more accurate that you can actually just 328 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: put a date to it rather than trying to figure 329 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: out when we started to make maps. And then you know, 330 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: you start to think, okay, well that's older than any 331 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: writing system, you know, four thousand years ago and older 332 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: than the oldest known alphabetical writing system. And this really 333 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: begins to shape this story about humans. Um, the problem is, 334 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: as you say, is that this was a picture that 335 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: he made of a cave painting, and so it's it's 336 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: just full of I guess you could say, his impression 337 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: of what he thought it was. Yeah, And like like 338 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: I said earlier too, even if you're dealing with an 339 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: actual map, uh from an ancient culture, you have to 340 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: really navigate that gray area of to what extent is 341 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: this just a person trying to figure out what their 342 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: places in the surrounding space and what to what point 343 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: is this a cosmological or religious work, To what extent 344 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: is it are they just seeing things in the world 345 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: around them and making pictures of them. You get into 346 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: that gray area of what a map is to an 347 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: ancient people, well certainly to a non language people, even 348 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: even more difficult to the fathom. Well, archaeologist Stephanie Mice 349 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: is the person who actually illuminated this problem because she said, 350 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: first of all, it's been taking out of context. Let's 351 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: go and look at this cave painting in the context 352 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: with other cave paintings and see what we find and 353 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: lo and behold. When she examined it, she said, m okay, 354 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: Now in the context, I can see that this volcano 355 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: it's spotted like a leopard skin, and if you look 356 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: at it, it's not really a volcano. It's kind of 357 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: two peaks. One peak is larger than the other. Now 358 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to compare it against this other cave painting 359 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: in which they have stretched out tiger skins or excuse me, 360 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: leopard skins, and you begin to see that this volcano. 361 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: It's really funny. When you first look at it, you 362 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: do see a volcano, but when you see her explanation, 363 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 1: you see that it is a stretched out it's totally yeah, 364 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: it's not a volcano. And these other little scratches aren't, 365 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: you know, necessarily the houses in that town or the huts. 366 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: It reminds me of the episode of Rest of Development, 367 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: where there's a cell phone picture that they think is 368 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: showing w M D S. But Tobias just took a 369 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: picture of himself by accident in the bathtub. You know. Well, 370 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 1: it's like Ken Jennings and map Head looks at Krishev's 371 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: forehead and sees a country I think it's Thailand or something. 372 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: Because he can't help it, and he's drawn the connections 373 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: to in that book between the shapes of various states 374 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: and the shapes of other countries. I mean, yeah, you 375 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: can't help but think those connections in your mind. All right, 376 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: So sent for doing some time traveling. Let's go forward 377 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: into the way way future, which is now um and 378 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: think about what maps mean to us today, particularly with 379 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: sort of technology that we have. Are you know, recapable 380 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: of making a similar mistake and misinterpreting information and layering 381 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: information that we have now? Well, if a future society 382 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 1: or alien culture comes back and looks at our maps now, 383 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: they're probably either going to be a little confused by 384 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: all the maps that we have of things that are 385 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: not actually real, which we discussed in our previous podcasts, 386 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: are gonna be like whoa, they have all these maps 387 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: of Hell, like tons of them. And and then there 388 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 1: are all these these other planets. I guess there's some 389 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: place called Middle Earth. It doesn't match up with anything 390 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: on the planet. There's the Hobbits. We don't see anything 391 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 1: in the record. So again, on one level, there's the 392 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: just the complexity of of our map obsession that we 393 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: have maps of things that aren't real. We have maps 394 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: that that deserve a purpose other than navigating the physical world. 395 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: But then our modern day maps are rather unique in 396 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: that they certainly something on your anything you're gonna have 397 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: in your smartphone, you're dealing with a real time map. 398 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: You're dealing in the map that not only charts the 399 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: streets in your world, but also the traffic on those streets, 400 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: how they're affected by weather, how they're affected by public 401 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: transportation system. So you have a lot of real time 402 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: data informing the shape of that map. Think about Google Earth. 403 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: It uses satellites, planes, hot air balloons. I did not 404 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: know that, uh, camera equipped kites and cars to capture 405 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: their images and then create this this virtual Earth for us, 406 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: and then you it has the keyhole technology UM which 407 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: actually before Google acquired it, I gave that program to 408 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: my dad because he's an early adopter of technology and 409 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: that was like the one thing I knew he didn't have. 410 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: So that gave them the ability to swoop in and 411 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: out UM, you know, with two D graphics and try 412 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: to make it even more accurate representation. UM. The goal 413 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: of Google is to have a sentiment centimeter per pixel 414 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,959 Speaker 1: imagery for the entirety of the globe, So every square 415 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: centimeter is its own pixel on the map. So now 416 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: that's overlaid with real time data like traffic and weather 417 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: and also crowdsourcing photos. Right, you can overlay virtually anything 418 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: on top of that, and you begin to wonder, is 419 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: this a more greate picture of of humanity in the 420 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: places that we live or is it still could there 421 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: be a bias in this, because some people will say 422 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: that that maps are biased in ways depending on the 423 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: sort of information that you share. Yes, And Uh. The 424 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: interesting thing too about going forward and thinking about the 425 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: information that shared in the map. We're talking about engaging 426 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: the map with even more and more information. We talked 427 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: in the past about the Living Earth simulator, this idea 428 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: that will essentially create a simulated model of the Earth. 429 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: Now it's it's not necessarily and it's it's least in 430 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: its short term vision. It's we're not talking about a 431 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: virtual Earth than which you could jack into and see, 432 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: you know, what the Queen is doing tomorrow and how 433 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: it's affecting Wall Street, that kind of thing. But you'd 434 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: be able to take a virtual world, Uh, Q in 435 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: the data that is essential to your problem, such as 436 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 1: say I don't know how Hollywood blockbusters affect the global 437 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: seafood market. You would put in the Hollywood data that 438 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: you put in the seafood data, you put in maybe 439 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 1: a few other data sets that play between those, and 440 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: then you would let it roll like a weather model 441 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: and see what the forecast is for tomorrow or the 442 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: day after in terms of fish and Hollywood movies. So 443 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: I think what we're talking about is the capability to 444 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: have a mapping system that can tell you what's going 445 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: on in the here and now, that can also extrapolate 446 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: what's going on a year from now, thirty days, ten 447 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: years predicated on these models for the Living Earth simulator 448 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: that at least in the program in its present form, right. 449 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: And then you think about Google's Liquid Galaxy, which is 450 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: this cluster of computers running Google Earth to create a 451 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: really immersive effect, and you begin to get this picture 452 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: of the future where you would never have to leave 453 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: your home to have pretty immersive experiences, right, because you 454 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: can even go out into the galaxy. We talked about 455 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: about the Internet, interstellar in net and how we're trying 456 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: to connect our solar system and trying to get trying 457 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: to figure out ways that will be connected. Think about 458 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: what that means in terms of the images that we're 459 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: getting from Mars curiosity, in that sort of data pace 460 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: that we're building up. Yeah, the map becomes more and 461 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:22,479 Speaker 1: more complex. Ideally it is still providing a simplified model 462 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: or view of the world to the user, but the 463 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: map itself, that the technology and the information in it 464 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: just swells and swells. I can't help but be reminded 465 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: of your Hey, Leuis Borges story on exactitude in science, 466 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: in which an empire that's obsessed with cartography creates a 467 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: map of the empire that is that is one to 468 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: one scale, so it's the map is the size of 469 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: the thing that it's mapping, and it just lays over 470 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: the earth um which which is an idea that the 471 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: Boorhees took from or he adapted from Loose Carroll and 472 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: something yeah, and and so borgyes Is was always up 473 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: for some sort of mind twisting, magical realistic idea, and 474 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: so he played with that in his short story and 475 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 1: it was pretty pretty thought provoking. Silly but thought provoking. 476 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: You know, well, it certainly appliable to a virtual map world, Like, 477 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,959 Speaker 1: what point does it become the equal of the thing 478 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: it's mapping in terms of its complexity? Well, and what 479 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: other frontiers are we mapping? Again, going back to Mars 480 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 1: curiosity and just in September, they discovered an area where 481 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 1: they think there was water and uh, the rocks are 482 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: in this large canyon and NASA's team named this rock 483 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: outcrop um Hotel. I believe that's the way to pronounce it, 484 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: after Canada's Hota Lake. So I mean already we're beginning 485 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: to take our history and propel it forward into these 486 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: uncharted areas. And then of course we get into the 487 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: area of augmented reality. Now um I believe it was 488 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: umberto Echo and one of his essays and numberto Eco 489 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: writes about everything from comic books to obscure things and 490 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: medieval literature. Great writer, but he wrote a piece where 491 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: he was talking about Borges story on exactitude and science, 492 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: and he was talking about making the map um see 493 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: through It would be okay so that you could you 494 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: could lay it out over the thing that it's mapping. 495 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: You wouldn't you wouldn't be able to you wouldn't say 496 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: something like, oh, where's the park. I can't see the 497 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: park for the map of the park that's on top 498 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: of it. To a certain extent, augmented reality is exactly that, 499 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: the idea of putting on a pair of enhanced augmented 500 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: reality glasses that then overlay the world around us with 501 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: information about that world. It becomes a c through one 502 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: to one map of the world that we live in. Yeah, 503 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: we've already seen the technology and play with surfaces too, 504 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: so um, yeah, it's kind of interesting to to imagine 505 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: walking down the street with you know, contacts that are 506 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: super imposing information and map coordinates at the same time. 507 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: You know, is this uh, I mean, I guess this 508 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: is just another version of the map, right. You can 509 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: kind of awful lies about it and be a Cassandra 510 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: about it, but this is the reality of living at 511 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: a different time in the world when map technology is 512 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: now this instead of your Rand McNally tattered in your 513 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: back pocket. Yeah, maps amazes. There you go. All right, 514 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: let's call over the robot. Then we'll do a quick 515 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: listener or email. All right, we heard from Adam, and 516 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: Adam is of course the chief Happiness Officer that we've 517 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: heard about before. He has a website Happiness plunge dot com, 518 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 1: as well as crazy Hair fundraiser dot com and uh. 519 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 1: He wrote into us in a response to our bat episodes. 520 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: He says, Hey guys, great timing on the podcast. I 521 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: was just on the island of Samal in the Philippines, 522 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: working with the community fighting to keep its land from 523 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: being deserved by business interests to make resorts. Anyway, I 524 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: stayed just a short walk away from the Guinness Record 525 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: biggest colony um of Jeffrey Rose's fruit bats in the world. 526 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: There are approximately one point eight million there. I had 527 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: never seen a bat before, so it was quite an experience. 528 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: We went about an hour before twilight, so that the 529 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: bats were active, flying around inside the cave and moving 530 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: around upside down. The noise the bats make is quite distinct. 531 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: It's hard to describe, but maybe like a high pitched 532 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: mouse mixed with nails on a chalkboard. It didn't smell 533 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: at all until one of the cave openings. Then the 534 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: smell just kind of slapped me across the face and 535 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: was horrible. I don't think their exit is quite as dramatic, 536 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: since there are several openings in the cave, but it 537 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: might be a site to see when they all leave 538 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: from the same area. Thanks for the great podcast and 539 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: information about these amazing, pollinating creatures, attached to some pictures 540 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: and videos for your enjoyment. Uh And indeed he includes 541 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: some really cool photos and video. I'm right after this podcast, 542 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: I guess I will go and put it on the Facebook, 543 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: so by the time you listen to this you will 544 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: have maybe seen them already. But he took some really 545 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: cool photographs, Like the beautiful creature. It's very uh, like 546 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: the the color of their their wing webbing versus the 547 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: wings limbs themselves. It's very distinct, really beautiful. I think 548 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: in general bouts are elegant. That's probably not something people 549 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: for around when they talk about bats, but they are. 550 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: To me. Well, if you don't find that's beautiful, I 551 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: challenge that you have not really stopped to look at 552 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: the bat. Yeah, yeah, yes, all right. Well, if you 553 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: have something to share with us about the beauty of bats, 554 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: or about our obsession with maps, about our ability to 555 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: see maps in the world around us, let us know. 556 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: I'd love to hear if any of you out there 557 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: compulsively see maps where there are no maps. Um, I'm 558 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: interested in anyone's personal experience with these new map technologies 559 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: that we're dealing with, whether it's just getting lost due 560 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: to some mishap with your a GPS, or some thoughts 561 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: on how your GPS and your augmented technology actually informs 562 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: your understanding and view of the world around you. Let 563 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: us know about it. You can find us on Facebook 564 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: and you can find us on tumbler. We are stuff 565 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: to blow your mind on both of those, and you 566 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter where our handle is blow 567 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: the Mind, and you can send us a lot at 568 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: blow the Mind at discovery dot com. For more on 569 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff 570 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: Works dot com